November 25, 2025 • 34 mins
With the Trump administration moving to reclassify nursing so it no longer counts as a professional degree for federal student aid, this episode couldn’t land at a more urgent moment. Nursing organizations warn that limiting access to funding threatens the very foundation of patient care, and in our household, where nurses are family, this news hits hard.
Today’s guest, Lisa, is a nurse practitioner, an adoptee, and someone who has lived through more than one life-changing twist thanks to DNA testing. Her story blends caregiving, identity, trauma, reunion, and that beautiful mix of nature and nurture we explore so often on Family Twist.
Lisa grew up in a loving adoptive home, always knowing she was adopted but never knowing the medical history she desperately needed. As a nurse practitioner and later a mother, the absence of that information became impossible to ignore. When she finally began searching for answers, she uncovered a story that feels like fate.
If you want to go even deeper into Lisa’s story, you can find her book here:
The Adopted Nurse (Amazon):
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=the+adopted+nurse
How a Nurse Practitioner Discovered Her Real Roots
Her journey includes:
• A neighbor who recognizes her immediately
• A grandfather she may have unknowingly cared for as an ICU nurse
• A birth family who lived down the street from her adoptive parents
• Birth aunts who welcome her with warmth, memory, and long-held truths
This episode explores the way caregivers are shaped by their histories, how adoptees carry both gratitude and grief, and how discovering your roots can transform everything.
Next week, Part Two goes even deeper with a second DNA discovery that completely reframes Lisa’s understanding of identity and safety. But first, this is where her story begins.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hey everyone, welcome back to Family Twist.
(00:02):
It's Kendall here, and today'sepisode is landing at a moment
that feels heavy.
If you've been watching thenews, you've probably seen the
uproar over the Trumpadministration's decision to
reclassify nursing so that it nolonger counts as a professional
degree for federal student aid.
Nursing organizations across thecountry are warning that cutting
(00:23):
off access to funding doesn'tjust hurt students, it also
threatens the very foundation ofpatient care.
And honestly, as someone who hasnurses in my family and nurses
in my heart, it feels personal.
SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
Yes.
We're a very pro-nursehousehold.
Between Kendall Tap sister, thenurse friends we've adopted, and
the nurses who've cared for usin our own medical moments.
We owe nurses everything.
So when we heard this news, wewere like, seriously?
SPEAKER_01 (00:50):
Exactly, and that's part of why today's guest, Lisa,
is showing up at a perfect time.
Lisa's a nurse practitioner, anadoptee, and someone who's lived
through more than onelife-changing twist thanks to
DNA testing.
Her story blends caregiving,identity, trauma, reunion, and
this beautiful mix of nature andnurture that we love talking
(01:11):
about on the show.
SPEAKER_00 (01:13):
She starts this episode exactly the way we start
every video call.
Hunted by animals, so she fitsright in.
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
She really does.
Lisa grew up in a lovingadoptive home, always knowing
she was adopted, alwayswondering who she came from, and
always wanting the medicalhistory she didn't have.
And like so many of us adoptees,she went searching not because
of curiosity alone, but becauseshe needed answers for her own
health and for her daughter'shealth.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
And what she finds is like something out of a
novel.
A neighbor who knows her, agrandfather she very likely
unknowingly cared for, andrelatives who lived down the
street from her adoptiveparents.
Fate, coincidence, DNA, whateveryou want to call it, it's pretty
incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
This is part one of Lisa's story, and we cover the
caregiving, the familydiscoveries, the grief, the
gratitude, and the complicatedway adoptees learn to hold all
those things at once.
And part two goes even deeper,so make sure you're subscribed.
But for now, let's jump in.
Here's Lisa.
SPEAKER_00 (02:19):
Lisa, welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (02:21):
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (02:23):
We're thrilled to have you.
We were talking a little bitabout this before the recording.
Kendall and I adore nurses.
Kendall's half sister is anurse, and we've made two new
besties through her nursefriends.
So actually, one of theirbirthdays is today.
So shout out to BJ.
Happy birthday.
SPEAKER_03 (02:37):
Oh, happy birthday.
SPEAKER_00 (02:38):
So when we heard from you, we were excited
because our love of nurses, andthen we were able to tie it back
to the podcast.
Yeah.
Just start off, at what age didyou find out you were adopted?
SPEAKER_02 (02:49):
So I don't remember not knowing that I was adopted.
My earliest memory is standingin front of a closet in a room
in the house that I grew up withmy mom handing me a box that I
want to say was almost like ashoebox.
And I just remember herexplaining what adoption was,
that I was adopted.
I was very young.
(03:10):
Don't remember much else besidesthe fact that she pulled out
pieces of paper and things thatfit in this box.
It was a closed adoption throughCatholic Social Services.
It was called CatholicCharities, and I think now it's
Catholic Social Services.
What she told me was that theyknew there were no significant
medical issues with the birthmom and that she was raped, but
(03:35):
she knew the guy.
I was young enough to rememberthat and know what that meant,
but I don't remember how old Iwas, and I don't remember ever
not knowing.
She said they had no otheridentifying information.
It was a closed adoption.
She loved you so much, shewanted to give you a better
life.
Which in the adoption communityhas become kind of a problematic
(04:00):
narrative.
But at the time, it's thenarrative, and to no fault of my
adoptive parents, they wereamazing.
They're both gone.
But they were amazing.
I had a really beautifulchildhood.
I was very loved, middle class,you know, suburban neighborhood
(04:20):
and Catholic education all theway up, you know, paid for my
first four years of college.
And then I put myself throughgraduate school.
And fortunately, when I got mydoctorate, it was on a grant.
Gave me every tool, everyopportunity.
I felt very, very loved.
But you do grow up alwayswondering where you came from,
(04:44):
always wondering why you weregiven up.
As I have gotten older and hadmore experiences, they're both
gone.
My mom passed away when I was 32five days before my daughter was
born.
Which was horrible and sudden.
She was declining, but it wasvery vague.
We didn't really know what wasgoing on.
(05:05):
She had lost her leg.
I was in my 20s, I was ingraduate school, after a knee
replacement surgery thatresulted in a blood clot behind
the knee.
And she had significant pain andreally wasn't listened to.
And I, of course, blamed myselffor a long time that I wasn't a
stronger advocate.
I tried, but people weren'tlistening to her level of pain,
(05:26):
found out 24 hours later.
And by that point, too muchblood loss to the leg and damage
to the tissue and resulted in anabove-knee amputee eventually.
But she and I continued totravel.
I think it was about eight yearsbefore she passed away.
But because of that, and she hadother comorbid conditions,
(05:47):
hypertension, probably someheart failure, diet developed
diabetes, and just basicallycollapsed in front of me.
I was eight months pregnant andpassed away right in front of me
at her garage floor.
So very traumatic.
And then Izzy came five dayslater.
So that was when I was 32 and mydad passed when I was 40.
(06:09):
He passed away of esophagealcancer, and I was able to care
for him and stayed with him hislast two and a half months of
his life.
I've lived close to my parents,probably 10 minutes away my
whole life.
Fast forward to later on, if wego back to my 30s, my dad was
still alive when I did start tosearch.
(06:30):
And initially in my 30s, Isearched because I wanted to
know medical information becauseI had a daughter.
And becoming more aware as anurse practitioner how important
family history is, and continuesto become very important.
And unfortunately, how ourguidelines are shaped for
screening and recommendations.
(06:51):
A lot leans on family history,which is where a lot of my
advocacy work now with adoptioncompetent healthcare is coming
in, you know, kind of blendingmy experiences, what I do for a
living, and the unfortunatecircumstances of how many times,
no matter what the circumstancesare, folks not knowing their
(07:12):
family history, with adopteesbeing, of course, a large group
of those folks.
So I initially contactedCatholic Social Services and was
able to get non-identifyinginformation, more heritage type
information.
And then about three weekslater, got a message on my phone
(07:32):
while I was in clinic, went andchecked my phone.
I was on my lunch, sitting in myoffice, and had a message from a
social worker that said, We havethe information on your birth
mother's family.
So my heart's racing.
(08:02):
My dad's mom and dad grew up in,and the address was down the
street from them.
SPEAKER_03 (08:09):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (08:10):
So found that out, and then I asked about my birth
mother, and the social workercasually said, Oh, she passed
away when she was 26.
And I felt my world fall outfrom underneath me because I had
spent so many years wonderingabout her.
And a lot of adoptees will saythis that on your birthday, it
(08:31):
you can have a lot of mixedfeelings.
For me, on my birthday, italways represented this must be
the one day that she thinks ofme.
This must be the one day thatshe remembers.
And the one day that she knowsthat I'm out there.
And to find out that she passedaway when I was, she was 19 when
she had me.
And to find out that she passedaway six, seven years later, I
(08:56):
was only six or seven, was justdevastating.
And I was sobbing so hard.
Somebody who had been in near myoffice was like, Are you okay?
And I said, Yeah, I'm okay.
And the social worker just tothis day, that impacted me and
how I deliver difficult news.
One of my roles as a nursepractitioner is I tell women
their pathology results fromtheir breast biopsies.
(09:18):
And so I can't tell you how manywomen I've cared for that I've
had to tell the news you havebreast cancer.
And I have never forgot howimportant it is to tell that
kind of news in a very informedway.
It probably led to me, I becamecertified as a trauma-informed
care practitioner this past yearbecause of my work now, more
(09:40):
recently in the last few years.
Needless to say, never forgothow I was delivered that news.
That very night, I came home,told my husband, my daughter was
probably six at the time, and wepiled in the car that night and
went to that address.
I walked up to the door, knockedon the door, and a younger
(10:02):
gentleman, probably in his 30sthat wouldn't have matched any
of this information, answeredthe door and I said, I'm looking
for Sally Thomas.
She's my grandmother.
And he said, The Thomases don'tlive here anymore, but the next
door neighbor has been here foryears and she can probably help
(10:23):
you.
So I went back to the car, toldmy husband and my daughter what
I was doing.
I knocked on the next doorneighbor's door.
And this is the part you can'tmake up.
So I knocked on the door and awoman answered.
I recognized her, she recognizedme.
I looked at her and I said,Denise, and she said, Lisa.
She said, How can I help you?
Denise was a nurse that I workedwith in the ICU at the local
(10:48):
hospital, Window Hospital, as abrand new nurse.
She precepted me and trained me.
Thomas was my grandmother.
And she said to me, She said,You're Judy's daughter.
And I said, Yes, I am.
And she said, Oh my goodness,come in, come in.
(11:10):
So I waved my husband and mydaughter in.
And there we were in Denise'sliving room with all of this
unfolding.
And she said to me, The firstperson I'm going to call is your
aunt Janice, who was Judy'ssister.
Janice and Jeannie are twins,and they were 13 at the time I
(11:31):
was born.
So they remembered, and shedecided to call Janice, who now
lives up in the upper peninsula,and left her a message.
And the message said, I havenews.
And I was like, Yes, you do.
So she went on to tell me thatJudy used to come and talk to
(11:51):
her about the situation and whatto do.
And talk to her aboutterminating her pregnancy.
Wasn't sure whether or not, andat that point wasn't legal.
This was 1968.
And I was your typical, as I'vecome to learn, baby scoop baby,
where Judy was actually sentaway to a home for unwed
mothers.
As far as the rape narrative,Denise didn't really know too
(12:16):
much about that.
I found out more from my birthaunts about that story.
But at the time, this was justunbelievable information.
And at one point, she looked atme and she said, Oh my goodness,
your grandfather was a patientwhile you worked in the ICU.
SPEAKER_01 (12:33):
Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_02 (12:34):
And so she said, I am quite certain you cared for
him.
So just the thought that I atsome point walked in and said,
Hi, Mr.
Thomas, I'm your nurse.
My name is Lisa, and laid mystethoscope on him is just
pretty amazing.
You know, and it turns out thiswas a Catholic Polish family
(12:57):
down the street from my adoptivefather's Hungarian.
My mother was German.
I'm not exactly sure what elseshe was, but again, very similar
demographic, literally down thestreet from each other.
And that was the late 60s.
So you didn't get pregnant andhave a baby.
So Judy was sent to a home forunwed mothers until she had me.
(13:19):
Fast forward, I did eventually,not too long after that, have a
conversation on the phone withmy aunt Janice, which was just
amazing.
She's the most beautiful person,salt of the earth.
And then my aunt Jeannie, whothey're twins, also amazing and
very different.
My Aunt Janice is she callsherself a dirt lady.
She's a master gardener, has adegree from Michigan State in
(13:43):
agriculture, worked with thesehuge greenhouses, and then was a
gardener, master gardener forfolks.
Just amazing.
And she's been up in the UP forseveral years.
And then my aunt Jeannie is anurse.
And she's lived different partsof the country now, lives up in
the UP as well.
They're very dynamicpersonalities, very, very
different.
(14:04):
They're fraternal twins, so theydon't look alike.
I probably favor my Aunt Jeannieand my grandma Sally more.
But neat little things aboutthem, my grandmother used to
read tea leaves for a living.
And I have always been a littlebit on the witchy side.
I love cards, I love gettingreadings, I love candles, I love
(14:25):
oils.
I was raised Catholic.
I still very much identify withCatholicism as a religion.
My spirituality is much morebroad than that and kind of
encompasses so much moreawareness of the divine and the
goddess.
And but again, very much love myCatholicism roots.
I appreciate the ritual of amass to find out that my
(14:47):
Catholic grandmother read tealeaves for a living and used to
read palms.
It just kind of fascinating tome.
And I always call my aunt Janicebecause she is a master gardener
and a house full of plants thatare just meticulously cared for.
And they've always been herbabies.
She didn't have children.
I always tell her she's a greenwitch and she just doesn't know
it.
(15:08):
My aunt is very much into NativeAmerican culture and spirit.
Interesting to me that my AuntJeannie's a nurse as well.
SPEAKER_01 (15:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:18):
And they are in my life, and I am so grateful to
them.
My uncle JT, their brother, Imet him also along the way.
He has passed away a couple ofyears ago, but he was a
professional race car driver.
He raced Porsche's.
He went at 18, went toHollywood, went to LA, and
worked, lived in garages andworked in garages to learn cars.
(15:41):
He's totally self-made.
Became good friends with theowner of the LA Times, who
sponsored him.
And the two of them became bestfriends.
And Porsche's and my uncletaught Steve McQueen how to
drive for the movie Le Mon.
Wow.
And just knew all of oldHollywood.
Very dynamic, man.
Very interesting, verymeticulously organized and
(16:04):
task-oriented.
So then when I met him, wereally bonded because the two of
us really could relate to thatwhole tasks and you know, get
your chores done kind of thing.
And very goal-oriented.
He's very driven, veryself-made.
And when I look at my life andhow driven I've been to instill,
you know, continue to do thingsand enhance my professional
(16:27):
career, do everything I can tobe the best nurse practitioner I
can be for my patients.
He and I really identify, but hepassed away, but I was able to
go and visit him.
Interestingly, my mother passedaway from leukemia.
My uncle passed away frommyelodysplastic syndrome, which
is transforms to leukemia.
So both blood disorders.
(16:48):
And I think I have another auntin that side of the family with
the history of leukemia.
So something good for me toknow.
So I do know more about myfamily history.
So that's the kind of first halfof my story with discoveries
until my 50s with the nextdiscovery that happened.
SPEAKER_00 (17:08):
One of those themes of this podcast is nature and
nurture.
SPEAKER_02 (17:16):
It's about exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
Because we definitely, I mean, through
Kendall, you know, and findinghis birth family, we definitely
see obviously you know,physicality resemblances and
things like that, but certainlylike mannerisms and things like
that.
Like, you know, his uh I don'tthink they would disagree, his
siblings would on his dad's sidewould say you know, they've all
got pretty short temper.
This is true.
(17:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:38):
And some of us manage them better than others.
SPEAKER_00 (17:41):
But then, you know, going back to you know,
Kendall's adoption story, Imean, it's just sounds very like
similar to yours in that he'salways known it's never been
like a you know a negative oranything like that.
It's always been treated as apositive.
And I mean, we talk about hisadoptive parents, I mean,
several times a week, if notevery day, you know, which is
great because I never got tomeet them.
(18:02):
But I feel like I kind of knowthem through the stories, and
we've got a couple like audiorecordings and we've got photos
and things like that.
So that's been great because oneof the things that always
bothered me from the verybeginning of our relationship,
and we've been together for 20plus years, is that Kennel
didn't have that close familybecause he lost his parents so
(18:22):
young.
And I've always been close withmy family, got a big family on
both sides, and of course theyimmediately embraced him.
Mom considers him one of hers.
But something was always naggingat me, and I think it was the
journalist and being like,There's gotta be information out
there, you know.
So and you know, fortunately wewere able to find that and
continue on with his part of thestory.
(18:43):
Going back to the nature andnurture thing is that I'm
guessing your adoptive parentsweren't in the medical field.
SPEAKER_02 (18:50):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (18:51):
So certainly there were things that you picked up
from them that, you know, kindof carried with you through your
whole life.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
SPEAKER_02 (18:59):
Yeah.
So I think the earliest Iremember thinking about being a
nurse was I was 10 and I don'tknow where it came from.
I actually started off thinkingI was gonna be a physician.
And it was that was prettyshort-lived because I decided I
wanted to take care of people,not disease.
And that led to wanting tobecome a nurse.
(19:22):
But I watched my adoptive fatheralways care for his family.
His dad had passed away before,so I never met my grandfather.
He passed away before I wasaround.
And I was, I remember mygrandmother, but she passed
away, I think, when I was 10 or11.
But I remember him always beingthe one that took care of her,
(19:43):
took groceries, checked on her.
She lived in a senior apartmentnot too far from us.
And then he had a brother whopassed away of liver cancer.
And my dad was always acaregiver, always making sure
everyone was all set.
And then I remember when I was.
In high school, my dad had astroke, and he ended up having
(20:06):
no deficits, but it was it wasjust this crazy thing that
happened.
And I remember how my mom caredfor him and how I felt this pull
and this need to caregive.
So despite the fact that theyweren't personally in the
medical field, they werecaregivers.
(20:28):
And I but think the way theycared for me impacted parts of
me, you know, wanting to be acaregiver.
My mom also cared for mygrandmother.
And when I say that, I don'teven mean just like physically
cared for, but it's thatchecking in, having over for
dinner, going and doing thingstogether, making sure my
grandmother came over everySunday for dinner.
(20:50):
You know, my mom would, youknow, the whole pot roast thing.
You know, it was, and I rememberwhen my my mom had lost her leg
already.
And it, I came home, I was on adate actually, with my husband
at and, you know, boyfriend atthe time.
And I came home and I was in my20s, and my mom said, I haven't
heard from your grandmother allday.
(21:11):
And I'm worried.
And so that was like reallyunusual.
And it was about 11:30 at night,and she said, I need you with to
go with your father to check onher.
And she couldn't go because itmeant her putting her prosthesis
on and just the whole thing.
So my dad and I went, and I canremember talking all the way
there, real nonchalant with mydad, pulling up and had a key
(21:33):
and walking in and calling hername the whole time we were
walking through the house so wedidn't scare her.
And I was the first one to getto the bedroom, and there she
was laying on her side, andshe'd passed away in her sleep.
SPEAKER_03 (21:43):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (21:44):
And the first thing I could think of was, how do I
tell my mom?
And that was before cell phones.
So that was before this instantconstant connection.
We immediately called thepolice, you know, and because
they had to come to the house,and then I think we even had
called a funeral home becausesomebody had to come.
(22:06):
And all this time didn't call mymom.
And so what she must have beenwondering, because I neither me
nor my dad could think oftelling her this over the phone.
So fast forward to getting backhome and walking in the door,
and my mom greeting us at thedoor in her wheelchair and her
saying she's gone, isn't she?
So just lots of things thatnever leave you and definitely
(22:29):
make a huge impression on you asfar as you know being a
caregiver.
SPEAKER_00 (22:34):
Yeah.
Nurturing.
Well, I know we're going to betelling your story a little bit
out of order, but since we're onthe theme of caregivers right
now, and thanks for making uscry on a Saturday morning.
SPEAKER_03 (22:45):
Same.
Same.
SPEAKER_00 (22:48):
Yeah, we love nurses so much, and we've had nurses in
our lives, and I I just think sofondly of them because of the
instinctual caregiving.
So, what was the decision likefor you to become sort of a
caregiver for the Adoptecommunity?
SPEAKER_02 (23:06):
I think that really happened with this second
discovery and trauma that I wentthrough for about five or six
years that I'm I can I canhonestly say I am on the other
side of it and probably havebeen most of a year.
But I think that the experiencethat I went through over the
(23:29):
past five years really took medown a very different road of
the adoptee journey.
And when I mentioned earlier thenarrative, she loved you so much
she gave you up.
It's such a loaded narrative.
And now I really understandthat.
Why do we equate what feels likeabandonment with love?
(23:52):
And how much does that impactus?
And now looking back, which isreally was the impetus for
writing the book, looking backand being able to see throughout
my entire life the striving tobe perfect, the feeling like I
had to achieve, I had to beperfect.
Because what if they, what ifI'm not good enough?
(24:15):
What if I'm not what theywanted?
What if they want to give me up?
It never leaves you, but youalso, I don't know that I saw it
until later, and especially withthis latest trauma and
experience that I've beenthrough, because it's the
opposite of what I experiencedwith my aunts.
So I kind of lived in this fairytale bubble of my parents were
(24:38):
amazing and I did feel loved.
And any feelings that I haveabout adoption and the grief is
to no fault of theirs.
I think there is a lot ofmovement in therapists being
adoption competent, and a lot ofmovement in adoptive parents
(24:59):
being more adoption competentand having a lot more awareness
of how loaded a lot of thingscan be for adoptees.
Every adoptee story isdifferent, but I think that
grief can exist with gratitudein the same.
And I think I grew up with somuch heavy, heavy, heavy
(25:20):
gratitude.
There was no room for grief.
When I lost my mom, I had a newbaby, and I just immediately
flipped into I've got to be amom now.
I can't grieve.
And my mom, my adopted mom, wasmy best friend.
We were incredibly close.
And she would always tell me,you know, you're perfect, you're
(25:40):
all your dad and I could everwant.
And she meant no pressure onthat.
But again, coming from anadoptee lens, you don't even
realize until later how muchthat impacted how you live your
life.
And since then, still unpackingthat I feel like I have to work
for relationships.
I have to be enough because ifI'm not a good enough nurse, if
(26:04):
I'm not a good enough friend, ifI'm not a good enough mother, if
I'm not a good enough wife, willI still be wanted?
And it's no one's fault, it'sjust part of the dynamic.
SPEAKER_01 (26:16):
I can completely relate to your feelings.
Friends that knew me when I wasa child and a teenager say that
I was always trying to be anoverachiever.
I was always needed.
It sounds stuck up to say betterthan I needed to be one of the
(26:39):
best, if not the best, right?
Exactly.
And I agree with you completely.
My parents were fantastic.
And my mother used to say thatmy dad thought I hung the moon.
That was her phrase about theway he felt about having me.
It's funny when I and I'vetalked about this, I think,
sometimes on the podcast.
(27:00):
My adopted parents were born in1933 and 1934.
So, you know, Prussian era in mydad, he instilled this idea
within me that you always haveto work.
My dad was always he putpressure on himself, be you
know, and they both did to begreat parents, and they wanted
(27:22):
to give me things that theynever had.
SPEAKER_03 (27:26):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (27:26):
And I admire that so much, but I wonder how much of
that I internalized, you know,like that you have to be great,
and you put a lot of pressure onyourself when you hear those
stories.
And I know my parents werereally proud of me, and that was
my goal, you know, even afterthey were dead, you know what I
mean?
Like I wanted to honor what theygave me, you know.
(27:51):
Yeah, because they made me who Iam, honestly.
And it's funny having nowlearned, you know, I've met my
birth father, and he and I arevery different people.
So it makes you think inretrospect, wow, if I had been
raised with him, what would mypersonality be like?
SPEAKER_02 (28:10):
Boy, can I relate to that?
SPEAKER_01 (28:12):
I mean, I love him and I love the children he
produced, you know, other thanme, but at the same time, you
know, I I see myself so much inmy adoptive parents.
SPEAKER_02 (28:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (28:26):
I see myself in them and I see myself in my aunts.
It's probably a good time tosegue to the last few years.
So my daughter bought all threeof us ancestor DNA kits for
Christmas, and really thinkingthis would be really cool to
find out heritage, especiallybecause at this point I didn't
know anything about my birthfather.
(28:46):
And there were rumors andcomments about who it could have
been.
There was, you know, from myaunts, they really, especially
my one aunt, really did not wantto buy the narrative that Judy
was raped.
My other aunt felt that sheprobably was.
So, and if it was, and this byno means minimizes rape or no
(29:07):
rape, that it was perhaps a datetype rape situation, but just
kind of more of thecircumstances that possibly
could have happened.
So, because of that, my daughterbought it will be just to get
more information, she boughtthese DNA kits.
I have a really bad chronic drymouth, and I had no interest in
spitting in this tube.
My daughter and my husband did,and they did it.
(29:29):
And about three weeks later, mydaughter and I are it's like
11:30 at night.
My husband gone to bed, andshe's on her phone and she's
already got the app downloaded.
She's ready.
And she says, Oh, our DNAresults are in, my DNA results
are in hers.
And I go, Oh, really?
What are we?
I mean, you know, what what dowe what do we turn out to be?
So she's looking at this, oh,we're this, we're this, and then
all of a sudden she says, Who'sthis guy?
(29:52):
And she pulls it up and it'shigh, high match, and she looks
up the amount of the match, andit says, Probable uncle or
grandfather.
And we're sitting there, and allI can think of is, well, I
already know Janice and Jeannieand JT, and I already know who
my grandparents were just a fewminutes, so perplexed.
And finally it hit both of us atthe same time.
(30:14):
And I said, Oh my God, it's mybirth father.
And so this is the first hint ofknowing anything, and there's a
picture.
So ran upstairs, woke up myhusband.
I said, Oh my God, I think Ifound my birth father.
So the next day, you know,really looking this over, I did
(30:35):
a background check that Iactually paid for, like, not
just one of the cheesy ones.
The background check came backreally clean.
He had a pilot's license.
He lived like four states away.
He was married, and lo andbehold, I had a brother.
SPEAKER_03 (30:50):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (30:51):
So I didn't know what to do with this
information.
And so I finally spit in a tubefor further verification, and it
came back paternal match, superhigh.
And I thought, you know what?
I don't want to disruptsomeone's life.
He's married.
Although I would love to know mybrother, maybe I'll reach out to
him at some point, but I don'tknow what to do with this
(31:13):
information.
So about nine months went by.
It was December of 2019.
And I'll never forget, sittingin my family room, snow was
falling.
My husband and I were going awayout of town that night for like
a date night thing.
And I thought, I better go getready.
I looked down at my phone and mystomach dropped.
Like the thought that he hadactually seen it and reached out
(31:37):
was just, I mean, it was if itwould have been a movie, it
would have just been like thiswhole no.
I immediately clicked on themessage and it said, It's it
appears that we are have a closerelationship on Ancestor DNA.
Here is my, I would like to talkto you.
Here is my email and my phonenumber.
Please let me know when we cantalk.
(31:57):
So I messaged him back rightaway.
Yes, we are related.
It appears you are my birthfather.
I'm adopted.
And then I didn't hear, but thenI went ahead and emailed him.
And immediately the emails forthe next 24 hours were very
intense.
SPEAKER_00 (32:13):
Did you skip your date night?
SPEAKER_02 (32:15):
No, but that whole, you know, I can remember we were
we were in a store walkingaround, and and Bruce was like,
What did he say now?
What did he say now?
And one of the emails said,Perhaps we'll be friends, and my
husband got all choked up.
But looking back, the emailswere so intense, and knowing now
(32:36):
what I didn't know then, he wasa master storyteller, and the
stories began.
SPEAKER_01 (32:44):
Lisa, thank you for sharing all of that with us.
Your story hits so many layers,not just adoption reunion, but
the role of caregiving inshaping who we become.
And hearing it today when nursesare literally fighting just to
be recognized as professionals,it hits extra hard.
SPEAKER_00 (33:01):
Yes, nurses definitely deserve better.
We're talking about the peoplewho sit with families on the
hardest days of their lives.
The idea that we would make itharder for anyone to join that
profession is just unbelievableand really disgusting.
SPEAKER_01 (33:14):
And Lisa is such a clear example of why nurses
matter.
She brings compassion toeverything she does, even when
she's carrying her own grief,her own questions, her own
trauma.
Nurses hold so much for the restof us.
SPEAKER_00 (33:29):
And this first half of her story reminds us how much
adoptees carry too.
Gratitude and grief can live inthe same heart, and Lisa's story
makes that so clear.
SPEAKER_01 (33:39):
Trust us, it's powerful.
A second DNA discovery later inlife changes everything she
thought she understood aboutadoption, identity, and safety.
You don't want to miss it.
SPEAKER_00 (33:49):
And if Lisa's story brings up your own, we'd love to
hear from you.
What Family Twist matters too.
Your story deserves to be heard.
SPEAKER_01 (33:57):
Thank you all for listening, for supporting the
show, and for supporting thenurses in your lives.
We'll be back with part two nextweek.
SPEAKER_00 (34:04):
And remember, Family Secrets are the ultimate pop
twist.
The Family Twist podcast ispresented by Sabwash Fair
Marketing Communications andproduced by Hal Batawi Akavich
LLC.
Hey everyone, welcome back to Family Twist.
(00:02):
It's Kendall here, and today'sepisode is landing at a moment
that feels heavy.
If you've been watching thenews, you've probably seen the
uproar over the Trumpadministration's decision to
reclassify nursing so that it nolonger counts as a professional
degree for federal student aid.
Nursing organizations across thecountry are warning that cutting
(00:23):
off access to funding doesn'tjust hurt students, it also
threatens the very foundation ofpatient care.
And honestly, as someone who hasnurses in my family and nurses
in my heart, it feels personal.
SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
Yes.
We're a very pro-nursehousehold.
Between Kendall Tap sister, thenurse friends we've adopted, and
the nurses who've cared for usin our own medical moments.
We owe nurses everything.
So when we heard this news, wewere like, seriously?
SPEAKER_01 (00:50):
Exactly, and that's part of why today's guest, Lisa,
is showing up at a perfect time.
Lisa's a nurse practitioner, anadoptee, and someone who's lived
through more than onelife-changing twist thanks to
DNA testing.
Her story blends caregiving,identity, trauma, reunion, and
this beautiful mix of nature andnurture that we love talking
(01:11):
about on the show.
SPEAKER_00 (01:13):
She starts this episode exactly the way we start
every video call.
Hunted by animals, so she fitsright in.
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
She really does.
Lisa grew up in a lovingadoptive home, always knowing
she was adopted, alwayswondering who she came from, and
always wanting the medicalhistory she didn't have.
And like so many of us adoptees,she went searching not because
of curiosity alone, but becauseshe needed answers for her own
health and for her daughter'shealth.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
And what she finds is like something out of a
novel.
A neighbor who knows her, agrandfather she very likely
unknowingly cared for, andrelatives who lived down the
street from her adoptiveparents.
Fate, coincidence, DNA, whateveryou want to call it, it's pretty
incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
This is part one of Lisa's story, and we cover the
caregiving, the familydiscoveries, the grief, the
gratitude, and the complicatedway adoptees learn to hold all
those things at once.
And part two goes even deeper,so make sure you're subscribed.
But for now, let's jump in.
Here's Lisa.
SPEAKER_00 (02:19):
Lisa, welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (02:21):
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (02:23):
We're thrilled to have you.
We were talking a little bitabout this before the recording.
Kendall and I adore nurses.
Kendall's half sister is anurse, and we've made two new
besties through her nursefriends.
So actually, one of theirbirthdays is today.
So shout out to BJ.
Happy birthday.
SPEAKER_03 (02:37):
Oh, happy birthday.
SPEAKER_00 (02:38):
So when we heard from you, we were excited
because our love of nurses, andthen we were able to tie it back
to the podcast.
Yeah.
Just start off, at what age didyou find out you were adopted?
SPEAKER_02 (02:49):
So I don't remember not knowing that I was adopted.
My earliest memory is standingin front of a closet in a room
in the house that I grew up withmy mom handing me a box that I
want to say was almost like ashoebox.
And I just remember herexplaining what adoption was,
that I was adopted.
I was very young.
(03:10):
Don't remember much else besidesthe fact that she pulled out
pieces of paper and things thatfit in this box.
It was a closed adoption throughCatholic Social Services.
It was called CatholicCharities, and I think now it's
Catholic Social Services.
What she told me was that theyknew there were no significant
medical issues with the birthmom and that she was raped, but
(03:35):
she knew the guy.
I was young enough to rememberthat and know what that meant,
but I don't remember how old Iwas, and I don't remember ever
not knowing.
She said they had no otheridentifying information.
It was a closed adoption.
She loved you so much, shewanted to give you a better
life.
Which in the adoption communityhas become kind of a problematic
(04:00):
narrative.
But at the time, it's thenarrative, and to no fault of my
adoptive parents, they wereamazing.
They're both gone.
But they were amazing.
I had a really beautifulchildhood.
I was very loved, middle class,you know, suburban neighborhood
(04:20):
and Catholic education all theway up, you know, paid for my
first four years of college.
And then I put myself throughgraduate school.
And fortunately, when I got mydoctorate, it was on a grant.
Gave me every tool, everyopportunity.
I felt very, very loved.
But you do grow up alwayswondering where you came from,
(04:44):
always wondering why you weregiven up.
As I have gotten older and hadmore experiences, they're both
gone.
My mom passed away when I was 32five days before my daughter was
born.
Which was horrible and sudden.
She was declining, but it wasvery vague.
We didn't really know what wasgoing on.
(05:05):
She had lost her leg.
I was in my 20s, I was ingraduate school, after a knee
replacement surgery thatresulted in a blood clot behind
the knee.
And she had significant pain andreally wasn't listened to.
And I, of course, blamed myselffor a long time that I wasn't a
stronger advocate.
I tried, but people weren'tlistening to her level of pain,
(05:26):
found out 24 hours later.
And by that point, too muchblood loss to the leg and damage
to the tissue and resulted in anabove-knee amputee eventually.
But she and I continued totravel.
I think it was about eight yearsbefore she passed away.
But because of that, and she hadother comorbid conditions,
(05:47):
hypertension, probably someheart failure, diet developed
diabetes, and just basicallycollapsed in front of me.
I was eight months pregnant andpassed away right in front of me
at her garage floor.
So very traumatic.
And then Izzy came five dayslater.
So that was when I was 32 and mydad passed when I was 40.
(06:09):
He passed away of esophagealcancer, and I was able to care
for him and stayed with him hislast two and a half months of
his life.
I've lived close to my parents,probably 10 minutes away my
whole life.
Fast forward to later on, if wego back to my 30s, my dad was
still alive when I did start tosearch.
(06:30):
And initially in my 30s, Isearched because I wanted to
know medical information becauseI had a daughter.
And becoming more aware as anurse practitioner how important
family history is, and continuesto become very important.
And unfortunately, how ourguidelines are shaped for
screening and recommendations.
(06:51):
A lot leans on family history,which is where a lot of my
advocacy work now with adoptioncompetent healthcare is coming
in, you know, kind of blendingmy experiences, what I do for a
living, and the unfortunatecircumstances of how many times,
no matter what the circumstancesare, folks not knowing their
(07:12):
family history, with adopteesbeing, of course, a large group
of those folks.
So I initially contactedCatholic Social Services and was
able to get non-identifyinginformation, more heritage type
information.
And then about three weekslater, got a message on my phone
(07:32):
while I was in clinic, went andchecked my phone.
I was on my lunch, sitting in myoffice, and had a message from a
social worker that said, We havethe information on your birth
mother's family.
So my heart's racing.
(08:02):
My dad's mom and dad grew up in,and the address was down the
street from them.
SPEAKER_03 (08:09):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (08:10):
So found that out, and then I asked about my birth
mother, and the social workercasually said, Oh, she passed
away when she was 26.
And I felt my world fall outfrom underneath me because I had
spent so many years wonderingabout her.
And a lot of adoptees will saythis that on your birthday, it
(08:31):
you can have a lot of mixedfeelings.
For me, on my birthday, italways represented this must be
the one day that she thinks ofme.
This must be the one day thatshe remembers.
And the one day that she knowsthat I'm out there.
And to find out that she passedaway when I was, she was 19 when
she had me.
And to find out that she passedaway six, seven years later, I
(08:56):
was only six or seven, was justdevastating.
And I was sobbing so hard.
Somebody who had been in near myoffice was like, Are you okay?
And I said, Yeah, I'm okay.
And the social worker just tothis day, that impacted me and
how I deliver difficult news.
One of my roles as a nursepractitioner is I tell women
their pathology results fromtheir breast biopsies.
(09:18):
And so I can't tell you how manywomen I've cared for that I've
had to tell the news you havebreast cancer.
And I have never forgot howimportant it is to tell that
kind of news in a very informedway.
It probably led to me, I becamecertified as a trauma-informed
care practitioner this past yearbecause of my work now, more
(09:40):
recently in the last few years.
Needless to say, never forgothow I was delivered that news.
That very night, I came home,told my husband, my daughter was
probably six at the time, and wepiled in the car that night and
went to that address.
I walked up to the door, knockedon the door, and a younger
(10:02):
gentleman, probably in his 30sthat wouldn't have matched any
of this information, answeredthe door and I said, I'm looking
for Sally Thomas.
She's my grandmother.
And he said, The Thomases don'tlive here anymore, but the next
door neighbor has been here foryears and she can probably help
(10:23):
you.
So I went back to the car, toldmy husband and my daughter what
I was doing.
I knocked on the next doorneighbor's door.
And this is the part you can'tmake up.
So I knocked on the door and awoman answered.
I recognized her, she recognizedme.
I looked at her and I said,Denise, and she said, Lisa.
She said, How can I help you?
Denise was a nurse that I workedwith in the ICU at the local
(10:48):
hospital, Window Hospital, as abrand new nurse.
She precepted me and trained me.
Thomas was my grandmother.
And she said to me, She said,You're Judy's daughter.
And I said, Yes, I am.
And she said, Oh my goodness,come in, come in.
(11:10):
So I waved my husband and mydaughter in.
And there we were in Denise'sliving room with all of this
unfolding.
And she said to me, The firstperson I'm going to call is your
aunt Janice, who was Judy'ssister.
Janice and Jeannie are twins,and they were 13 at the time I
(11:31):
was born.
So they remembered, and shedecided to call Janice, who now
lives up in the upper peninsula,and left her a message.
And the message said, I havenews.
And I was like, Yes, you do.
So she went on to tell me thatJudy used to come and talk to
(11:51):
her about the situation and whatto do.
And talk to her aboutterminating her pregnancy.
Wasn't sure whether or not, andat that point wasn't legal.
This was 1968.
And I was your typical, as I'vecome to learn, baby scoop baby,
where Judy was actually sentaway to a home for unwed
mothers.
As far as the rape narrative,Denise didn't really know too
(12:16):
much about that.
I found out more from my birthaunts about that story.
But at the time, this was justunbelievable information.
And at one point, she looked atme and she said, Oh my goodness,
your grandfather was a patientwhile you worked in the ICU.
SPEAKER_01 (12:33):
Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_02 (12:34):
And so she said, I am quite certain you cared for
him.
So just the thought that I atsome point walked in and said,
Hi, Mr.
Thomas, I'm your nurse.
My name is Lisa, and laid mystethoscope on him is just
pretty amazing.
You know, and it turns out thiswas a Catholic Polish family
(12:57):
down the street from my adoptivefather's Hungarian.
My mother was German.
I'm not exactly sure what elseshe was, but again, very similar
demographic, literally down thestreet from each other.
And that was the late 60s.
So you didn't get pregnant andhave a baby.
So Judy was sent to a home forunwed mothers until she had me.
(13:19):
Fast forward, I did eventually,not too long after that, have a
conversation on the phone withmy aunt Janice, which was just
amazing.
She's the most beautiful person,salt of the earth.
And then my aunt Jeannie, whothey're twins, also amazing and
very different.
My Aunt Janice is she callsherself a dirt lady.
She's a master gardener, has adegree from Michigan State in
(13:43):
agriculture, worked with thesehuge greenhouses, and then was a
gardener, master gardener forfolks.
Just amazing.
And she's been up in the UP forseveral years.
And then my aunt Jeannie is anurse.
And she's lived different partsof the country now, lives up in
the UP as well.
They're very dynamicpersonalities, very, very
different.
(14:04):
They're fraternal twins, so theydon't look alike.
I probably favor my Aunt Jeannieand my grandma Sally more.
But neat little things aboutthem, my grandmother used to
read tea leaves for a living.
And I have always been a littlebit on the witchy side.
I love cards, I love gettingreadings, I love candles, I love
(14:25):
oils.
I was raised Catholic.
I still very much identify withCatholicism as a religion.
My spirituality is much morebroad than that and kind of
encompasses so much moreawareness of the divine and the
goddess.
And but again, very much love myCatholicism roots.
I appreciate the ritual of amass to find out that my
(14:47):
Catholic grandmother read tealeaves for a living and used to
read palms.
It just kind of fascinating tome.
And I always call my aunt Janicebecause she is a master gardener
and a house full of plants thatare just meticulously cared for.
And they've always been herbabies.
She didn't have children.
I always tell her she's a greenwitch and she just doesn't know
it.
(15:08):
My aunt is very much into NativeAmerican culture and spirit.
Interesting to me that my AuntJeannie's a nurse as well.
SPEAKER_01 (15:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:18):
And they are in my life, and I am so grateful to
them.
My uncle JT, their brother, Imet him also along the way.
He has passed away a couple ofyears ago, but he was a
professional race car driver.
He raced Porsche's.
He went at 18, went toHollywood, went to LA, and
worked, lived in garages andworked in garages to learn cars.
(15:41):
He's totally self-made.
Became good friends with theowner of the LA Times, who
sponsored him.
And the two of them became bestfriends.
And Porsche's and my uncletaught Steve McQueen how to
drive for the movie Le Mon.
Wow.
And just knew all of oldHollywood.
Very dynamic, man.
Very interesting, verymeticulously organized and
(16:04):
task-oriented.
So then when I met him, wereally bonded because the two of
us really could relate to thatwhole tasks and you know, get
your chores done kind of thing.
And very goal-oriented.
He's very driven, veryself-made.
And when I look at my life andhow driven I've been to instill,
you know, continue to do thingsand enhance my professional
(16:27):
career, do everything I can tobe the best nurse practitioner I
can be for my patients.
He and I really identify, but hepassed away, but I was able to
go and visit him.
Interestingly, my mother passedaway from leukemia.
My uncle passed away frommyelodysplastic syndrome, which
is transforms to leukemia.
So both blood disorders.
(16:48):
And I think I have another auntin that side of the family with
the history of leukemia.
So something good for me toknow.
So I do know more about myfamily history.
So that's the kind of first halfof my story with discoveries
until my 50s with the nextdiscovery that happened.
SPEAKER_00 (17:08):
One of those themes of this podcast is nature and
nurture.
SPEAKER_02 (17:16):
It's about exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
Because we definitely, I mean, through
Kendall, you know, and findinghis birth family, we definitely
see obviously you know,physicality resemblances and
things like that, but certainlylike mannerisms and things like
that.
Like, you know, his uh I don'tthink they would disagree, his
siblings would on his dad's sidewould say you know, they've all
got pretty short temper.
This is true.
(17:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:38):
And some of us manage them better than others.
SPEAKER_00 (17:41):
But then, you know, going back to you know,
Kendall's adoption story, Imean, it's just sounds very like
similar to yours in that he'salways known it's never been
like a you know a negative oranything like that.
It's always been treated as apositive.
And I mean, we talk about hisadoptive parents, I mean,
several times a week, if notevery day, you know, which is
great because I never got tomeet them.
(18:02):
But I feel like I kind of knowthem through the stories, and
we've got a couple like audiorecordings and we've got photos
and things like that.
So that's been great because oneof the things that always
bothered me from the verybeginning of our relationship,
and we've been together for 20plus years, is that Kennel
didn't have that close familybecause he lost his parents so
(18:22):
young.
And I've always been close withmy family, got a big family on
both sides, and of course theyimmediately embraced him.
Mom considers him one of hers.
But something was always naggingat me, and I think it was the
journalist and being like,There's gotta be information out
there, you know.
So and you know, fortunately wewere able to find that and
continue on with his part of thestory.
(18:43):
Going back to the nature andnurture thing is that I'm
guessing your adoptive parentsweren't in the medical field.
SPEAKER_02 (18:50):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (18:51):
So certainly there were things that you picked up
from them that, you know, kindof carried with you through your
whole life.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
SPEAKER_02 (18:59):
Yeah.
So I think the earliest Iremember thinking about being a
nurse was I was 10 and I don'tknow where it came from.
I actually started off thinkingI was gonna be a physician.
And it was that was prettyshort-lived because I decided I
wanted to take care of people,not disease.
And that led to wanting tobecome a nurse.
(19:22):
But I watched my adoptive fatheralways care for his family.
His dad had passed away before,so I never met my grandfather.
He passed away before I wasaround.
And I was, I remember mygrandmother, but she passed
away, I think, when I was 10 or11.
But I remember him always beingthe one that took care of her,
(19:43):
took groceries, checked on her.
She lived in a senior apartmentnot too far from us.
And then he had a brother whopassed away of liver cancer.
And my dad was always acaregiver, always making sure
everyone was all set.
And then I remember when I was.
In high school, my dad had astroke, and he ended up having
(20:06):
no deficits, but it was it wasjust this crazy thing that
happened.
And I remember how my mom caredfor him and how I felt this pull
and this need to caregive.
So despite the fact that theyweren't personally in the
medical field, they werecaregivers.
(20:28):
And I but think the way theycared for me impacted parts of
me, you know, wanting to be acaregiver.
My mom also cared for mygrandmother.
And when I say that, I don'teven mean just like physically
cared for, but it's thatchecking in, having over for
dinner, going and doing thingstogether, making sure my
grandmother came over everySunday for dinner.
(20:50):
You know, my mom would, youknow, the whole pot roast thing.
You know, it was, and I rememberwhen my my mom had lost her leg
already.
And it, I came home, I was on adate actually, with my husband
at and, you know, boyfriend atthe time.
And I came home and I was in my20s, and my mom said, I haven't
heard from your grandmother allday.
(21:11):
And I'm worried.
And so that was like reallyunusual.
And it was about 11:30 at night,and she said, I need you with to
go with your father to check onher.
And she couldn't go because itmeant her putting her prosthesis
on and just the whole thing.
So my dad and I went, and I canremember talking all the way
there, real nonchalant with mydad, pulling up and had a key
(21:33):
and walking in and calling hername the whole time we were
walking through the house so wedidn't scare her.
And I was the first one to getto the bedroom, and there she
was laying on her side, andshe'd passed away in her sleep.
SPEAKER_03 (21:43):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (21:44):
And the first thing I could think of was, how do I
tell my mom?
And that was before cell phones.
So that was before this instantconstant connection.
We immediately called thepolice, you know, and because
they had to come to the house,and then I think we even had
called a funeral home becausesomebody had to come.
(22:06):
And all this time didn't call mymom.
And so what she must have beenwondering, because I neither me
nor my dad could think oftelling her this over the phone.
So fast forward to getting backhome and walking in the door,
and my mom greeting us at thedoor in her wheelchair and her
saying she's gone, isn't she?
So just lots of things thatnever leave you and definitely
(22:29):
make a huge impression on you asfar as you know being a
caregiver.
SPEAKER_00 (22:34):
Yeah.
Nurturing.
Well, I know we're going to betelling your story a little bit
out of order, but since we're onthe theme of caregivers right
now, and thanks for making uscry on a Saturday morning.
SPEAKER_03 (22:45):
Same.
Same.
SPEAKER_00 (22:48):
Yeah, we love nurses so much, and we've had nurses in
our lives, and I I just think sofondly of them because of the
instinctual caregiving.
So, what was the decision likefor you to become sort of a
caregiver for the Adoptecommunity?
SPEAKER_02 (23:06):
I think that really happened with this second
discovery and trauma that I wentthrough for about five or six
years that I'm I can I canhonestly say I am on the other
side of it and probably havebeen most of a year.
But I think that the experiencethat I went through over the
(23:29):
past five years really took medown a very different road of
the adoptee journey.
And when I mentioned earlier thenarrative, she loved you so much
she gave you up.
It's such a loaded narrative.
And now I really understandthat.
Why do we equate what feels likeabandonment with love?
(23:52):
And how much does that impactus?
And now looking back, which isreally was the impetus for
writing the book, looking backand being able to see throughout
my entire life the striving tobe perfect, the feeling like I
had to achieve, I had to beperfect.
Because what if they, what ifI'm not good enough?
(24:15):
What if I'm not what theywanted?
What if they want to give me up?
It never leaves you, but youalso, I don't know that I saw it
until later, and especially withthis latest trauma and
experience that I've beenthrough, because it's the
opposite of what I experiencedwith my aunts.
So I kind of lived in this fairytale bubble of my parents were
(24:38):
amazing and I did feel loved.
And any feelings that I haveabout adoption and the grief is
to no fault of theirs.
I think there is a lot ofmovement in therapists being
adoption competent, and a lot ofmovement in adoptive parents
(24:59):
being more adoption competentand having a lot more awareness
of how loaded a lot of thingscan be for adoptees.
Every adoptee story isdifferent, but I think that
grief can exist with gratitudein the same.
And I think I grew up with somuch heavy, heavy, heavy
(25:20):
gratitude.
There was no room for grief.
When I lost my mom, I had a newbaby, and I just immediately
flipped into I've got to be amom now.
I can't grieve.
And my mom, my adopted mom, wasmy best friend.
We were incredibly close.
And she would always tell me,you know, you're perfect, you're
(25:40):
all your dad and I could everwant.
And she meant no pressure onthat.
But again, coming from anadoptee lens, you don't even
realize until later how muchthat impacted how you live your
life.
And since then, still unpackingthat I feel like I have to work
for relationships.
I have to be enough because ifI'm not a good enough nurse, if
(26:04):
I'm not a good enough friend, ifI'm not a good enough mother, if
I'm not a good enough wife, willI still be wanted?
And it's no one's fault, it'sjust part of the dynamic.
SPEAKER_01 (26:16):
I can completely relate to your feelings.
Friends that knew me when I wasa child and a teenager say that
I was always trying to be anoverachiever.
I was always needed.
It sounds stuck up to say betterthan I needed to be one of the
(26:39):
best, if not the best, right?
Exactly.
And I agree with you completely.
My parents were fantastic.
And my mother used to say thatmy dad thought I hung the moon.
That was her phrase about theway he felt about having me.
It's funny when I and I'vetalked about this, I think,
sometimes on the podcast.
(27:00):
My adopted parents were born in1933 and 1934.
So, you know, Prussian era in mydad, he instilled this idea
within me that you always haveto work.
My dad was always he putpressure on himself, be you
know, and they both did to begreat parents, and they wanted
(27:22):
to give me things that theynever had.
SPEAKER_03 (27:26):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (27:26):
And I admire that so much, but I wonder how much of
that I internalized, you know,like that you have to be great,
and you put a lot of pressure onyourself when you hear those
stories.
And I know my parents werereally proud of me, and that was
my goal, you know, even afterthey were dead, you know what I
mean?
Like I wanted to honor what theygave me, you know.
(27:51):
Yeah, because they made me who Iam, honestly.
And it's funny having nowlearned, you know, I've met my
birth father, and he and I arevery different people.
So it makes you think inretrospect, wow, if I had been
raised with him, what would mypersonality be like?
SPEAKER_02 (28:10):
Boy, can I relate to that?
SPEAKER_01 (28:12):
I mean, I love him and I love the children he
produced, you know, other thanme, but at the same time, you
know, I I see myself so much inmy adoptive parents.
SPEAKER_02 (28:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (28:26):
I see myself in them and I see myself in my aunts.
It's probably a good time tosegue to the last few years.
So my daughter bought all threeof us ancestor DNA kits for
Christmas, and really thinkingthis would be really cool to
find out heritage, especiallybecause at this point I didn't
know anything about my birthfather.
(28:46):
And there were rumors andcomments about who it could have
been.
There was, you know, from myaunts, they really, especially
my one aunt, really did not wantto buy the narrative that Judy
was raped.
My other aunt felt that sheprobably was.
So, and if it was, and this byno means minimizes rape or no
(29:07):
rape, that it was perhaps a datetype rape situation, but just
kind of more of thecircumstances that possibly
could have happened.
So, because of that, my daughterbought it will be just to get
more information, she boughtthese DNA kits.
I have a really bad chronic drymouth, and I had no interest in
spitting in this tube.
My daughter and my husband did,and they did it.
(29:29):
And about three weeks later, mydaughter and I are it's like
11:30 at night.
My husband gone to bed, andshe's on her phone and she's
already got the app downloaded.
She's ready.
And she says, Oh, our DNAresults are in, my DNA results
are in hers.
And I go, Oh, really?
What are we?
I mean, you know, what what dowe what do we turn out to be?
So she's looking at this, oh,we're this, we're this, and then
all of a sudden she says, Who'sthis guy?
(29:52):
And she pulls it up and it'shigh, high match, and she looks
up the amount of the match, andit says, Probable uncle or
grandfather.
And we're sitting there, and allI can think of is, well, I
already know Janice and Jeannieand JT, and I already know who
my grandparents were just a fewminutes, so perplexed.
And finally it hit both of us atthe same time.
(30:14):
And I said, Oh my God, it's mybirth father.
And so this is the first hint ofknowing anything, and there's a
picture.
So ran upstairs, woke up myhusband.
I said, Oh my God, I think Ifound my birth father.
So the next day, you know,really looking this over, I did
(30:35):
a background check that Iactually paid for, like, not
just one of the cheesy ones.
The background check came backreally clean.
He had a pilot's license.
He lived like four states away.
He was married, and lo andbehold, I had a brother.
SPEAKER_03 (30:50):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (30:51):
So I didn't know what to do with this
information.
And so I finally spit in a tubefor further verification, and it
came back paternal match, superhigh.
And I thought, you know what?
I don't want to disruptsomeone's life.
He's married.
Although I would love to know mybrother, maybe I'll reach out to
him at some point, but I don'tknow what to do with this
(31:13):
information.
So about nine months went by.
It was December of 2019.
And I'll never forget, sittingin my family room, snow was
falling.
My husband and I were going awayout of town that night for like
a date night thing.
And I thought, I better go getready.
I looked down at my phone and mystomach dropped.
Like the thought that he hadactually seen it and reached out
(31:37):
was just, I mean, it was if itwould have been a movie, it
would have just been like thiswhole no.
I immediately clicked on themessage and it said, It's it
appears that we are have a closerelationship on Ancestor DNA.
Here is my, I would like to talkto you.
Here is my email and my phonenumber.
Please let me know when we cantalk.
(31:57):
So I messaged him back rightaway.
Yes, we are related.
It appears you are my birthfather.
I'm adopted.
And then I didn't hear, but thenI went ahead and emailed him.
And immediately the emails forthe next 24 hours were very
intense.
SPEAKER_00 (32:13):
Did you skip your date night?
SPEAKER_02 (32:15):
No, but that whole, you know, I can remember we were
we were in a store walkingaround, and and Bruce was like,
What did he say now?
What did he say now?
And one of the emails said,Perhaps we'll be friends, and my
husband got all choked up.
But looking back, the emailswere so intense, and knowing now
(32:36):
what I didn't know then, he wasa master storyteller, and the
stories began.
SPEAKER_01 (32:44):
Lisa, thank you for sharing all of that with us.
Your story hits so many layers,not just adoption reunion, but
the role of caregiving inshaping who we become.
And hearing it today when nursesare literally fighting just to
be recognized as professionals,it hits extra hard.
SPEAKER_00 (33:01):
Yes, nurses definitely deserve better.
We're talking about the peoplewho sit with families on the
hardest days of their lives.
The idea that we would make itharder for anyone to join that
profession is just unbelievableand really disgusting.
SPEAKER_01 (33:14):
And Lisa is such a clear example of why nurses
matter.
She brings compassion toeverything she does, even when
she's carrying her own grief,her own questions, her own
trauma.
Nurses hold so much for the restof us.
SPEAKER_00 (33:29):
And this first half of her story reminds us how much
adoptees carry too.
Gratitude and grief can live inthe same heart, and Lisa's story
makes that so clear.
SPEAKER_01 (33:39):
Trust us, it's powerful.
A second DNA discovery later inlife changes everything she
thought she understood aboutadoption, identity, and safety.
You don't want to miss it.
SPEAKER_00 (33:49):
And if Lisa's story brings up your own, we'd love to
hear from you.
What Family Twist matters too.
Your story deserves to be heard.
SPEAKER_01 (33:57):
Thank you all for listening, for supporting the
show, and for supporting thenurses in your lives.
We'll be back with part two nextweek.
SPEAKER_00 (34:04):
And remember, Family Secrets are the ultimate pop
twist.
The Family Twist podcast ispresented by Sabwash Fair
Marketing Communications andproduced by Hal Batawi Akavich
LLC.
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