December 2, 2025 • 23 mins
In Part One, Lisa shared her extraordinary adoption reunion story. A closed adoption, a lifetime of questions, a birth family who lived down the street, and the shocking discovery that she likely cared for her own biological grandfather in the ICU. It was a story about caregiving, identity, and the power of finally finding your roots.
Part Two takes us into a very different kind of discovery.
This episode explores the emotional fallout of her paternal DNA match. What begins with hopeful emails and a powerful moment of genetic mirroring turns into years of confusion, mixed narratives, addiction, emotional manipulation, and the painful truth adoptees often live with. Reunion does not guarantee safety. Sometimes it brings an entirely new wave of grief.
Lisa walks us through the relationship with her biological father, the intense early connection, the unraveling that followed, the trauma she and her daughter endured, and the strength it took to reclaim her voice again. It is an honest, vulnerable look at what happens when the fantasy of family meets the reality of human complexity.
And throughout it all, Lisa continues to ground herself in caregiving, advocacy, and her work as a nurse practitioner. As nursing faces new threats on the national stage, her story is a reminder of how much nurses carry for the rest of us and why their voices matter.
This is Part Two of Lisa’s story. If you missed Part One, we recommend listening in order.
Her book, The Adopted Nurse, expands on this journey with even more insight and compassion.
How a Nurse Practitioner Survived a Second DNA Discovery
What Listeners Will Hear
• The first phone call with her biological father.
• How hope and longing shaped her early trust.
• The intense bond that formed during their first visit.
• Signs that something was not right.
• The unraveling of the relationship.
• The impact on her daughter.
• The yearslong cycle of addiction, apologies, and emotional confusion.
• The night she and her daughter were kicked out with nowhere to go.
• How therapy and reflection helped her make sense of the narrative she was given.
• Why she will never know the full truth about her birth parents.
• How this experience deepened her work as an adoptee advocate and nurse practitioner.
• What she wants other adoptees to know before they take a DNA test.
• Her message of healing, strength, and reclaiming your own story.
Link to Lisa’s Book: The Adopted Nurse
If Lisa’s story resonates with you, or if you have your own Family Twist, we would love to hear from you. Your story matters. Your truth matters. And your voice deserves to be heard.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Welcome back to Family Twist.
(00:01):
It's Corey, and today Kennel andI are diving into part two of
our conversation with Lisa, anurse practitioner, adoptee,
author, and frankly, survivor ofmore plot twists than a whole
season of Grey's Anatomy.
But before we jump in, we wantto take a moment to say this
again because it matters.
Nurses are under attack rightnow.
When you reclassify nursing soit suddenly doesn't count as a
(00:23):
professional degree for federalstudent aid, you're not just
hurting future nurses, you'rehurting patients, families, and
communities.
And this is a hill for us to dieon.
Nurses deserve respect, funding,and support.
And maybe some free stacks, butmostly the respect and funding.
And Lisa?
She's the perfect example of whynurses matter.
(00:44):
Last week she shared theunbelievable story of likely
caring for her biologicalgrandfather in the ICU without
knowing who he was.
And come on, you can't make thisstuff up.
Well, she actually did write itin her book, The Adopted Nurse,
which you should absolutely grabif you haven't already.
So part one took us through heradoption, the caregiving thread
woven through her whole life,and that stunning first DNA
(01:06):
discovery.
Today, things are about to getmore intense.
This is where the story veersinto emotional whiplash
territory.
The charismatic birth father,the whirlwind connection, the
unraveling, the trauma, and theyears-long journey of reality
replacing fantasy.
So take a breath, grab somewater, give a hug to a nurse in
(01:27):
your life, and get ready.
Here's part two of ourconversation with Lisa.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Looking back, the emails were so intense, and
knowing now what I didn't knowthen, he was a master
storyteller, and the storiesbegan.
And he did not know Judy fromwhat he was saying initially.
I don't know who your birthmother was.
(01:56):
And we set up time to talk thenext day.
So the next day, phone call cameand um, very awkward, very crazy
to be on the phone with thisperson.
And I said to him 20 minutesinto the conversation, I have a
question for you, and you maynot like it.
And he said, he kind of suckedhis breath in and he said, Okay.
(02:18):
I said, My birth motherapparently has told the story
that she was raped.
And his immediate response was,Well, that can't be.
That can't be.
There was no penetration.
Now, interestingly, someone whodidn't remember her.
This is a woman who's not knownanything her whole life, who's
(02:41):
been desperate for informationand wants a different narrative.
So the more details he gave me,interestingly, in that very
first conversation, I grabbedonto and I ran with it.
Fast forward to the next severalmonths, he arranged to come and
visit me two months later.
But in the process of coming tovisit me in the phone calls and
(03:05):
the emails, the intensity wasoff the charts.
And in the meaning, thefrequency and the exchange of
information.
So it turns out he was a writer.
He's published a few novels.
Brilliant man.
Ended up working for thegovernment.
He was a marine, was ahairdresser, and then ended up
(03:27):
somehow working for thegovernment with the government
services administration.
So FEMA, when there weredisasters, things like that.
And he actually retired young atI think like 58.
So when I met him, he was 75.
And early, early on in the firstintense conversations, lots of
information.
(03:47):
He started to tell me that hiswife was having a hard time and
was jealous.
In the meantime, I was kind oflike on that whole, I want to
meet her, I want to meet her, Iwant to talk to her.
And he's like, Well, I'm gonna,I'm trying to handle this
because she was having such ahard time with it, which gave me
really mixed feelings.
(04:08):
Like I didn't really understandthis.
In the meantime, he also didn'ttell my brother about me.
He wanted to wait until he metme.
So he mentioned coming to visitme.
I said, How's January?
So he came to visit me.
And it was actually in at thetime, it was crazy.
(04:29):
It was the genetic mirroring.
I look exactly like him.
I mean, it was crazy to look atsomeone and really see your
features, mannerisms, notgrowing up with him and having
the same mannerisms was crazy.
So I was completely enchanted,enthralled, this biological
(04:56):
connection, and he definitelyconstantly highlighted all of
our similarities, but alsolooking back, was really
identified me with my accolades.
I published a textbook severalyears ago that's in fifth
edition about the DNP degree, mydegree.
(05:18):
And he talked about that.
He talked about the fact that Ihad a doctorate.
He talked about, I mean, it wasa constant and looking back, you
know, recognizing that.
But at the time, he also hasthat kind of personality where
you feel like you're the onlyperson in the room.
And it was just I was completelymy life was upside down.
(05:45):
But in the mix of this was theconstant my wife doesn't accept
this.
And pepper throughout the entirerelationship that I had with him
was the things that he wouldrepeat back to me that she would
say.
It really set things up for me,never feeling like this was
going to be okay.
(06:05):
I did eventually get to talk tomy brother.
I eventually went there Father'sDay that year and got to meet my
brother.
Um, things really started tothings were things were not
right from the very firstconversation, but became much
more obvious that things werenot right about eight months in.
I didn't know he was analcoholic and he apparently had
(06:27):
not been drinking for a coupleof years before he met me and
then started drinking, but I hadno idea that that was a problem.
You know, he kept saying, I'mgonna have champagne with my
daughter the first time I meether.
And so come to find out, I thinkhis wife eventually blamed me
for the fact that he did startdrinking.
The next several years pepperedwith him going to rehab.
(06:48):
I actually even went, mydaughter and I went and visited
him in rehab in California.
Why California?
I still don't really understandwhen they live on the in the
Midwest.
And I'm sure there's well rehabfacilities in the we were in the
Midwest, but he wanted to go toCalifornia.
I twisted myself in a pretzelfor about five years and did
everything I could, but reallyprobably the most traumatic
(07:12):
experience I've ever beenthrough was the push and pull,
and what ended up really beingrejection.
Yes, his wife, I feel rejectedme, but he in turn rejected me
because I felt I wasn't stoodfor and I felt, you know,
telling me all of this theentire time.
(07:33):
Fortunately, I did start therapyabout a year in and actually
just ended therapy because Ithink between the book, the very
last time I did actually see himrecently because my brother,
unfortunately, has beendiagnosed with esophageal
cancer.
What?
And uh it's stage four, and he'sa year younger than me, so
(07:55):
pretty tragic.
So I'm very close to him andhave been to visit him and did
see my father for the first timein two and a half years and had
a very good conversation.
But the last time before that,that I had seen him, my daughter
and I went to see him to staywith him because his wife fell
out of town to see her family.
And so my daughter and I went tostay with him.
(08:18):
He was drinking, and thethree-day ended a culmination of
him going on a rage and kickingus out of his house at midnight
in the cold in a state we didn'tlive in with nowhere to go,
somewhere where you can't get anUber real easy.
We did actually make it to mybrother's and then to a hotel
(08:40):
and when I saw him a few monthsago.
There had been somecommunication, some apologies
for, you know, and him claimingto not remember anything.
And maybe he does, maybe hedoesn't, I don't know.
But I am completely on the otherside of it.
And I think one of the biggestturning points was being able to
sit with him and have aconversation with him and be
warm.
(09:01):
And as he started to apologizeand blame everything on his
wife, me being able to look athim and go, No, no, Nick, it's
not it's not all her.
It, you know, you have every bitas much to do with how things
went down and how this turnedout.
Absolutely.
And he asked me, can you everforgive me?
(09:21):
But I'm not sure he knows whathe's asking forgiveness for.
SPEAKER_01 (09:25):
And good for you for just like being bold, and you
know, it sounds like you did itwith empathy and I did, you
know.
SPEAKER_00 (09:33):
I did, you know, a different version of that could
have been me being oh,completely different.
Yep, but that's not who I am.
That's just not who I am, right?
SPEAKER_02 (09:45):
And you said something interesting that's
that got me thinking, so yourhalf-brother was a year younger
than you.
So that means that a year afteryou know you were conceived,
yeah, he did he get was he theyget married first, or did he get
no great question.
SPEAKER_00 (10:02):
Nick met the woman that was Scott's mother, he was
a hairdresser and did her hair.
She was a regular client and shewas actually married and had a
family, and they began arelationship, and she got
pregnant and they ran offtogether and were together for
about 13 years, never gotmarried.
(10:23):
He left her several times, andthen finally for the last time,
but did stay in Scott's life inand out in and out.
So Scott does live near him, andthey have a relationship,
probably not all of what Scottwould have wanted, but he is
actually stepping up and beingthere for Scott now, which I can
be very thankful for because I'mtoo far away to do the things
(10:46):
that he's gonna need now, as faras taking appointments and
things like that.
The last time I went about twoand a half months ago, I went by
myself for a reason.
I didn't want anyone with me.
I didn't want my daughter inthat environment, anything near
that again.
SPEAKER_01 (10:59):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (10:59):
I felt, you know, I still feel I still have a lot of
guilt that she was with me thenand had to be a part of all of
that.
Because he, as abusive as he wasto me for about five years, he
was also abusive to her.
You know, she was very muchimpacted because she wanted to
know him and have him in herlife.
Like I said, he had that, he hasthat typical narcissistic
(11:21):
personality that really drawsyou in and you are the center of
the room, and it's veryaddictive, and it's you know,
you're enraptured by that.
And my daughter was right therewith me.
Not to mention this was a birthgrandfather, you know, that she
wanted to know.
So I went by myself for severalreasons.
I had a feeling I would probablysee him, and I felt ready, and I
(11:42):
was, and it I felt prettyinvigorated after, but this time
I'm taking my husband becauseScott really wants to see Bruce,
and I really just don't feel Ineed to be there alone this
time.
SPEAKER_02 (11:54):
Yeah.
From everything you've told us,I'm guessing you will probably
never really know what happenedbetween him and your birth
mother.
SPEAKER_00 (12:02):
No, in the beginning, I wanted a different
story.
And as I put it in my book, Iend one of my chapters with I
crawled closer to the web, tothe spider in the center of the
web, and did not realize I wasbeing told something by a master
storyteller.
He literally wrote a few novels.
He knows how to spin a story.
(12:24):
I didn't realize I was beingtold a story, so now I really
don't know what happened, and Ican accept that.
I can accept that yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (12:33):
I mean, you're still doing great work and it doesn't
matter.
SPEAKER_00 (12:39):
No, it doesn't.
SPEAKER_01 (12:40):
And why speculate?
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02 (12:42):
Like, yeah, it does yeah.
So a couple of things uh that wegot involved with this
organization called Right toKnow a few years ago when they
started those board members wereguests on the podcast.
I ended up attending theirsummit beef podcast panel, and
it's an organization all abouteducation and helping people
find therapists andpractitioners, and it's for the
(13:04):
adoptee and NPE anddonor-conceived communities.
And they asked me to join theirboard this year.
I'm in the supportive spouserole, and I'm a marketer, so I'm
helping with their marketing andstuff.
And so we're planning the nextsummit right now.
Kendall and I are going toattend, we'll both be speaking.
It's in Atlanta in March.
You would be it would be great,you know, if you were able to
attend and oh, I would be open.
(13:26):
It was a life-changing weekendfor me.
SPEAKER_00 (13:28):
Oh my gosh, I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (13:30):
And we've just become so involved in these
communities, and it'stherapeutic for both of us,
yeah.
And then the second thing beforewe get to our final question is
going back to the witchy stuff.
I'm just curious as apractitioner.
So we have another podcastcalled Horror Heels that we
started last year.
It's all about our theory thathorror movies and horror culture
(13:51):
is good for mental wellness.
And we've had psychologists onhow yeah.
So I don't know if you'reinterested in that kind of
stuff, you know, into horroritself, but when you're talking
about reading the tea leaves andstuff, I don't know if that's
something that you've everthought about yourself that it,
you know, these kind of thingsbeing good for mental wellness.
SPEAKER_00 (14:06):
But you know, some people like they get freaked out
by the witchy stuff, but youknow, but so many, I think,
especially it seems like in thelast I don't know how long,
probably several years, as wefeel we have less control of
powers that be that govern us orsituations in the world at
(14:30):
large, I sense that folks turninward and turn to sources of
strength.
And I think that the divine orwhatever your spiritualism is,
and I speak more coming from thelens that I'm coming from.
When you feel like you can gaina sense of control over when you
(14:52):
feel there you have no controlover so many things that we all
deal with, I think it provides asource of strength and control.
There are a lot ofmisconceptions about what
witchcraft really is, but whatit really is, is manifestation
and intention and following yourinner voice and your inner
(15:14):
goddess and really listening toyourself and gaining strength in
who you are.
And I think when we are facedwith trauma, when we're faced
with a world that we don't haveany control over, and we are
almost victims of that, it is aplace where women, in
(15:34):
particular, I speak from thislens, find their power and their
sense of self.
So I think in I guess relatingit back to what you're saying
with mental health, a lot offolks that I communicate with in
that part of the community getstrength from that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:50):
What is Sigorney Weaver's character in alien?
In Alien.
Ripley.
Ripley, because it's so funnythat you brought up the female
aspect of that, because likewhen I think of iconic people in
like final person in in a film,I just think that Ripley
character just kicks ass.
(16:11):
I mean, I just think she's yeah,she's just the epitome of what
every hero wants to be.
SPEAKER_02 (16:19):
You know, for that podcast, we do the final
question that we always ask, andwe did from the very beginning
who is your favorite finalperson in a world movie.
Yeah, we've gotten some reallycool wild great.
SPEAKER_00 (16:29):
Wow, I have to give that some thought, but yeah.
I think Jamie Lee Curtis.
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
Yeah, we're huge fans.
SPEAKER_00 (16:36):
Yeah, she's she'd probably be my favorite.
SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
Yeah, I mean, she's awesome and has just reappeared
so many times.
I love that they the classicones that we grew up with,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (16:46):
I mean, I don't I'm 57, so full disclosure, that's
my that's what I grew up with.
I grew up with Halloween andJason, and you know, that's what
I grew up.
Nightmare in Elm Street.
I grew up with that.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
I'm 55, so I can definitely relate.
SPEAKER_00 (16:58):
Yeah, yep, yep.
SPEAKER_02 (17:00):
So we've had a couple of crossovers uh
episodes, but we love when thatkind of thing happens.
So I just I wanted to make surethat to talk about that.
SPEAKER_00 (17:07):
Well, I'm really interested in the conference.
I teach at University ofMichigan in the sexual health
program, and I believe it's thesecond weekend in March.
If there isn't a conflict, I'mvery interested in that.
SPEAKER_01 (17:18):
Yeah, it's called Untangling Our Roots.
That's the name of the event.
Yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
I think my journey, my most recent journey with my
birth father finding me, itup-ended so much of my thoughts
and narratives and beliefs aboutadoption and adoptees.
And I think that it it justshifted me to be much more open
to more narratives and morerealities about living with this
(17:45):
kind of information.
I also counsel women aboutgenetic testing.
And I always tell them once youknow, you can't unknow.
So if you don't want to dogenetic testing, that's okay.
I always relate it back toopening up that message or
putting my blood out there inancestor DNA.
Like, once you do that, you haveto be prepared for what you may
(18:10):
find or who may find you.
Like I could never, you know,looking back, I've had so many
folks ask me, would you go backand do it different?
Would you have not responded?
There was absolutely nothingthat would have stopped me from
responding.
And you can't understand thatuntil you're in that situation
and you've gone your whole lifenot knowing and wanting to know
(18:32):
more.
So I think that this most recentexperience I've had over the
last several years really hasshifted how I feel.
And also, it's serendipitous towhat I do and how much, you
know, working in the breastcancer and high-risk breast
space and menopause and sexualhealth, because those are my
three specialties, and knowingfamily history really matters.
(18:56):
It even matters in the menopausespace because women who can't
look to their mother and say,what was your menopause
experience like?
When did you feel that you werestarting to have symptoms?
Or what did you do about it?
They don't have that lens toknow that there's any any kind
of familial, even breast densitycan have a familial component.
(19:17):
So I all the things that youcan't ask if you don't have that
information.
And again, family history andcancer screening, how do we take
care of those folks?
How do we provide adopteecompetent health care?
How do I look at what other riskfactors?
How do I advocate for you to getgenetic testing?
How do I advocate for you to getthat MRI, even though your risk
(19:37):
score is only 15%?
Because if you don't have familyhistory, the calculator isn't
going to put you at high risk.
So, how do I work around thatwith you?
That's really been somethingthat it's just amazing how the
journey just kind of continuesto unfold and all of your life
experiences continue to impactwhat I can give back, you know,
(19:59):
and what you can.
SPEAKER_02 (20:00):
Yeah, and I mean it's important because it not
everyone is going to be able todo that.
Not every, you know, especiallythose that are still in the fog.
So for you to be able to gothrough a double whammy of
roller coaster ride, which withthe positivity on your birth
mother's side, but also thetrauma there.
SPEAKER_00 (20:16):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (20:16):
And then the flip side with the man who birthed
you, yeah.
Not everybody could come on theother side of that and be like,
what can I do to help others inthe community?
So thank you for doing that.
SPEAKER_00 (20:24):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (20:26):
So the last question that we asked on this podcast is
Is there a musical artist or asong that you would kind of lean
on when times were really,really crazy?
Taylor Swift.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (20:40):
One song she has, when I first announced the book
last year in November, mydaughter actually found it.
It's called Deer Reader.
And it's the song that's in thebackground of that post.
And then when she came out withTortured Poets Department, my
god.
I can't even tell you how manysongs the smallest man who ever
(21:01):
lived comes to mind.
Little old me.
You know, don't be afraid oflittle old me, but you should
be.
I'm a lot stronger than youthink I am.
SPEAKER_02 (21:11):
She's been very instrumental, I think, in
helping a lot of people andempowering a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00 (21:15):
My favorite Taylor Swift quote is if you don't like
her, you haven't needed her.
And when you need her, you'llget it.
SPEAKER_01 (21:23):
That's great.
I love that.
And to me, that's I mean, ingeneral, that's what music's
about, right?
Like, you know, it's yeah, wejoke, and during podcasts are
probably the only minutes in ourweek that music isn't playing in
our house.
You know what I mean?
Like it's just it's a constant,yeah, you know.
So each music lovers.
SPEAKER_02 (21:45):
Lisa, this has been absolutely amazing.
So glad that we were able toconnect and wow, you your story
is remarkable and so amazingwhat you're doing coming out on
the other side.
SPEAKER_00 (21:56):
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
You guys are amazing.
This was perfect.
I appreciate you.
SPEAKER_02 (22:00):
Well, thank you so much again.
Thank you guys.
SPEAKER_00 (22:03):
It was such a pleasure to meet you both.
SPEAKER_02 (22:06):
Wow, Lisa.
Thank you for trusting us andour listeners with this chapter
of your story.
Part two is not easy.
It's raw, complicated, andpainfully familiar for so many
adoptees and NPEs who realizetoo late that the reunion they
hope for is not the reunion theyget.
The fact that you have to comeout on the other side to help,
(22:26):
and the fact that you have comeout on the other side to help
other adoptees and otherpatients, that's the kind of
healing art we cheer for.
Nurses don't just save lives,they rebuild their own.
If you connected with Lisa'sstory today, please check out
her book, The Adopted Nurse.
It offers even more insight,validation, and honesty.
(22:47):
Plus, far more wisdom than youcan fit into two podcast
episodes.
And remember, this is why wetell these stories.
Adoption, donor conception, NPEexperiences, they're not simple.
They're not tidy.
They're not always the Hallmarkversion people want to imagine.
But they deserve to be heard.
You deserve to be heard.
(23:07):
Thanks for spending time withus, for supporting the show, and
for supporting the nurses inyour life, especially right now
when they're fighting just to berecognized for the professionals
they are.
We'll be back next week withanother Family Twist.
And remember, Family Secrets arethe ultimate pot twist.
The Family Twist podcast ispresented by Savoie Fair
(23:27):
Marketing Communications andproduced by How the Cow Ate the
Cabbage LLC.
Welcome back to Family Twist.
(00:01):
It's Corey, and today Kennel andI are diving into part two of
our conversation with Lisa, anurse practitioner, adoptee,
author, and frankly, survivor ofmore plot twists than a whole
season of Grey's Anatomy.
But before we jump in, we wantto take a moment to say this
again because it matters.
Nurses are under attack rightnow.
When you reclassify nursing soit suddenly doesn't count as a
(00:23):
professional degree for federalstudent aid, you're not just
hurting future nurses, you'rehurting patients, families, and
communities.
And this is a hill for us to dieon.
Nurses deserve respect, funding,and support.
And maybe some free stacks, butmostly the respect and funding.
And Lisa?
She's the perfect example of whynurses matter.
(00:44):
Last week she shared theunbelievable story of likely
caring for her biologicalgrandfather in the ICU without
knowing who he was.
And come on, you can't make thisstuff up.
Well, she actually did write itin her book, The Adopted Nurse,
which you should absolutely grabif you haven't already.
So part one took us through heradoption, the caregiving thread
woven through her whole life,and that stunning first DNA
(01:06):
discovery.
Today, things are about to getmore intense.
This is where the story veersinto emotional whiplash
territory.
The charismatic birth father,the whirlwind connection, the
unraveling, the trauma, and theyears-long journey of reality
replacing fantasy.
So take a breath, grab somewater, give a hug to a nurse in
(01:27):
your life, and get ready.
Here's part two of ourconversation with Lisa.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Looking back, the emails were so intense, and
knowing now what I didn't knowthen, he was a master
storyteller, and the storiesbegan.
And he did not know Judy fromwhat he was saying initially.
I don't know who your birthmother was.
(01:56):
And we set up time to talk thenext day.
So the next day, phone call cameand um, very awkward, very crazy
to be on the phone with thisperson.
And I said to him 20 minutesinto the conversation, I have a
question for you, and you maynot like it.
And he said, he kind of suckedhis breath in and he said, Okay.
(02:18):
I said, My birth motherapparently has told the story
that she was raped.
And his immediate response was,Well, that can't be.
That can't be.
There was no penetration.
Now, interestingly, someone whodidn't remember her.
This is a woman who's not knownanything her whole life, who's
(02:41):
been desperate for informationand wants a different narrative.
So the more details he gave me,interestingly, in that very
first conversation, I grabbedonto and I ran with it.
Fast forward to the next severalmonths, he arranged to come and
visit me two months later.
But in the process of coming tovisit me in the phone calls and
(03:05):
the emails, the intensity wasoff the charts.
And in the meaning, thefrequency and the exchange of
information.
So it turns out he was a writer.
He's published a few novels.
Brilliant man.
Ended up working for thegovernment.
He was a marine, was ahairdresser, and then ended up
(03:27):
somehow working for thegovernment with the government
services administration.
So FEMA, when there weredisasters, things like that.
And he actually retired young atI think like 58.
So when I met him, he was 75.
And early, early on in the firstintense conversations, lots of
information.
(03:47):
He started to tell me that hiswife was having a hard time and
was jealous.
In the meantime, I was kind oflike on that whole, I want to
meet her, I want to meet her, Iwant to talk to her.
And he's like, Well, I'm gonna,I'm trying to handle this
because she was having such ahard time with it, which gave me
really mixed feelings.
(04:08):
Like I didn't really understandthis.
In the meantime, he also didn'ttell my brother about me.
He wanted to wait until he metme.
So he mentioned coming to visitme.
I said, How's January?
So he came to visit me.
And it was actually in at thetime, it was crazy.
(04:29):
It was the genetic mirroring.
I look exactly like him.
I mean, it was crazy to look atsomeone and really see your
features, mannerisms, notgrowing up with him and having
the same mannerisms was crazy.
So I was completely enchanted,enthralled, this biological
(04:56):
connection, and he definitelyconstantly highlighted all of
our similarities, but alsolooking back, was really
identified me with my accolades.
I published a textbook severalyears ago that's in fifth
edition about the DNP degree, mydegree.
(05:18):
And he talked about that.
He talked about the fact that Ihad a doctorate.
He talked about, I mean, it wasa constant and looking back, you
know, recognizing that.
But at the time, he also hasthat kind of personality where
you feel like you're the onlyperson in the room.
And it was just I was completelymy life was upside down.
(05:45):
But in the mix of this was theconstant my wife doesn't accept
this.
And pepper throughout the entirerelationship that I had with him
was the things that he wouldrepeat back to me that she would
say.
It really set things up for me,never feeling like this was
going to be okay.
(06:05):
I did eventually get to talk tomy brother.
I eventually went there Father'sDay that year and got to meet my
brother.
Um, things really started tothings were things were not
right from the very firstconversation, but became much
more obvious that things werenot right about eight months in.
I didn't know he was analcoholic and he apparently had
(06:27):
not been drinking for a coupleof years before he met me and
then started drinking, but I hadno idea that that was a problem.
You know, he kept saying, I'mgonna have champagne with my
daughter the first time I meether.
And so come to find out, I thinkhis wife eventually blamed me
for the fact that he did startdrinking.
The next several years pepperedwith him going to rehab.
(06:48):
I actually even went, mydaughter and I went and visited
him in rehab in California.
Why California?
I still don't really understandwhen they live on the in the
Midwest.
And I'm sure there's well rehabfacilities in the we were in the
Midwest, but he wanted to go toCalifornia.
I twisted myself in a pretzelfor about five years and did
everything I could, but reallyprobably the most traumatic
(07:12):
experience I've ever beenthrough was the push and pull,
and what ended up really beingrejection.
Yes, his wife, I feel rejectedme, but he in turn rejected me
because I felt I wasn't stoodfor and I felt, you know,
telling me all of this theentire time.
(07:33):
Fortunately, I did start therapyabout a year in and actually
just ended therapy because Ithink between the book, the very
last time I did actually see himrecently because my brother,
unfortunately, has beendiagnosed with esophageal
cancer.
What?
And uh it's stage four, and he'sa year younger than me, so
(07:55):
pretty tragic.
So I'm very close to him andhave been to visit him and did
see my father for the first timein two and a half years and had
a very good conversation.
But the last time before that,that I had seen him, my daughter
and I went to see him to staywith him because his wife fell
out of town to see her family.
And so my daughter and I went tostay with him.
(08:18):
He was drinking, and thethree-day ended a culmination of
him going on a rage and kickingus out of his house at midnight
in the cold in a state we didn'tlive in with nowhere to go,
somewhere where you can't get anUber real easy.
We did actually make it to mybrother's and then to a hotel
(08:40):
and when I saw him a few monthsago.
There had been somecommunication, some apologies
for, you know, and him claimingto not remember anything.
And maybe he does, maybe hedoesn't, I don't know.
But I am completely on the otherside of it.
And I think one of the biggestturning points was being able to
sit with him and have aconversation with him and be
warm.
(09:01):
And as he started to apologizeand blame everything on his
wife, me being able to look athim and go, No, no, Nick, it's
not it's not all her.
It, you know, you have every bitas much to do with how things
went down and how this turnedout.
Absolutely.
And he asked me, can you everforgive me?
(09:21):
But I'm not sure he knows whathe's asking forgiveness for.
SPEAKER_01 (09:25):
And good for you for just like being bold, and you
know, it sounds like you did itwith empathy and I did, you
know.
SPEAKER_00 (09:33):
I did, you know, a different version of that could
have been me being oh,completely different.
Yep, but that's not who I am.
That's just not who I am, right?
SPEAKER_02 (09:45):
And you said something interesting that's
that got me thinking, so yourhalf-brother was a year younger
than you.
So that means that a year afteryou know you were conceived,
yeah, he did he get was he theyget married first, or did he get
no great question.
SPEAKER_00 (10:02):
Nick met the woman that was Scott's mother, he was
a hairdresser and did her hair.
She was a regular client and shewas actually married and had a
family, and they began arelationship, and she got
pregnant and they ran offtogether and were together for
about 13 years, never gotmarried.
(10:23):
He left her several times, andthen finally for the last time,
but did stay in Scott's life inand out in and out.
So Scott does live near him, andthey have a relationship,
probably not all of what Scottwould have wanted, but he is
actually stepping up and beingthere for Scott now, which I can
be very thankful for because I'mtoo far away to do the things
(10:46):
that he's gonna need now, as faras taking appointments and
things like that.
The last time I went about twoand a half months ago, I went by
myself for a reason.
I didn't want anyone with me.
I didn't want my daughter inthat environment, anything near
that again.
SPEAKER_01 (10:59):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (10:59):
I felt, you know, I still feel I still have a lot of
guilt that she was with me thenand had to be a part of all of
that.
Because he, as abusive as he wasto me for about five years, he
was also abusive to her.
You know, she was very muchimpacted because she wanted to
know him and have him in herlife.
Like I said, he had that, he hasthat typical narcissistic
(11:21):
personality that really drawsyou in and you are the center of
the room, and it's veryaddictive, and it's you know,
you're enraptured by that.
And my daughter was right therewith me.
Not to mention this was a birthgrandfather, you know, that she
wanted to know.
So I went by myself for severalreasons.
I had a feeling I would probablysee him, and I felt ready, and I
(11:42):
was, and it I felt prettyinvigorated after, but this time
I'm taking my husband becauseScott really wants to see Bruce,
and I really just don't feel Ineed to be there alone this
time.
SPEAKER_02 (11:54):
Yeah.
From everything you've told us,I'm guessing you will probably
never really know what happenedbetween him and your birth
mother.
SPEAKER_00 (12:02):
No, in the beginning, I wanted a different
story.
And as I put it in my book, Iend one of my chapters with I
crawled closer to the web, tothe spider in the center of the
web, and did not realize I wasbeing told something by a master
storyteller.
He literally wrote a few novels.
He knows how to spin a story.
(12:24):
I didn't realize I was beingtold a story, so now I really
don't know what happened, and Ican accept that.
I can accept that yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (12:33):
I mean, you're still doing great work and it doesn't
matter.
SPEAKER_00 (12:39):
No, it doesn't.
SPEAKER_01 (12:40):
And why speculate?
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02 (12:42):
Like, yeah, it does yeah.
So a couple of things uh that wegot involved with this
organization called Right toKnow a few years ago when they
started those board members wereguests on the podcast.
I ended up attending theirsummit beef podcast panel, and
it's an organization all abouteducation and helping people
find therapists andpractitioners, and it's for the
(13:04):
adoptee and NPE anddonor-conceived communities.
And they asked me to join theirboard this year.
I'm in the supportive spouserole, and I'm a marketer, so I'm
helping with their marketing andstuff.
And so we're planning the nextsummit right now.
Kendall and I are going toattend, we'll both be speaking.
It's in Atlanta in March.
You would be it would be great,you know, if you were able to
attend and oh, I would be open.
(13:26):
It was a life-changing weekendfor me.
SPEAKER_00 (13:28):
Oh my gosh, I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (13:30):
And we've just become so involved in these
communities, and it'stherapeutic for both of us,
yeah.
And then the second thing beforewe get to our final question is
going back to the witchy stuff.
I'm just curious as apractitioner.
So we have another podcastcalled Horror Heels that we
started last year.
It's all about our theory thathorror movies and horror culture
(13:51):
is good for mental wellness.
And we've had psychologists onhow yeah.
So I don't know if you'reinterested in that kind of
stuff, you know, into horroritself, but when you're talking
about reading the tea leaves andstuff, I don't know if that's
something that you've everthought about yourself that it,
you know, these kind of thingsbeing good for mental wellness.
SPEAKER_00 (14:06):
But you know, some people like they get freaked out
by the witchy stuff, but youknow, but so many, I think,
especially it seems like in thelast I don't know how long,
probably several years, as wefeel we have less control of
powers that be that govern us orsituations in the world at
(14:30):
large, I sense that folks turninward and turn to sources of
strength.
And I think that the divine orwhatever your spiritualism is,
and I speak more coming from thelens that I'm coming from.
When you feel like you can gaina sense of control over when you
(14:52):
feel there you have no controlover so many things that we all
deal with, I think it provides asource of strength and control.
There are a lot ofmisconceptions about what
witchcraft really is, but whatit really is, is manifestation
and intention and following yourinner voice and your inner
(15:14):
goddess and really listening toyourself and gaining strength in
who you are.
And I think when we are facedwith trauma, when we're faced
with a world that we don't haveany control over, and we are
almost victims of that, it is aplace where women, in
(15:34):
particular, I speak from thislens, find their power and their
sense of self.
So I think in I guess relatingit back to what you're saying
with mental health, a lot offolks that I communicate with in
that part of the community getstrength from that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:50):
What is Sigorney Weaver's character in alien?
In Alien.
Ripley.
Ripley, because it's so funnythat you brought up the female
aspect of that, because likewhen I think of iconic people in
like final person in in a film,I just think that Ripley
character just kicks ass.
(16:11):
I mean, I just think she's yeah,she's just the epitome of what
every hero wants to be.
SPEAKER_02 (16:19):
You know, for that podcast, we do the final
question that we always ask, andwe did from the very beginning
who is your favorite finalperson in a world movie.
Yeah, we've gotten some reallycool wild great.
SPEAKER_00 (16:29):
Wow, I have to give that some thought, but yeah.
I think Jamie Lee Curtis.
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
Yeah, we're huge fans.
SPEAKER_00 (16:36):
Yeah, she's she'd probably be my favorite.
SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
Yeah, I mean, she's awesome and has just reappeared
so many times.
I love that they the classicones that we grew up with,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (16:46):
I mean, I don't I'm 57, so full disclosure, that's
my that's what I grew up with.
I grew up with Halloween andJason, and you know, that's what
I grew up.
Nightmare in Elm Street.
I grew up with that.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
I'm 55, so I can definitely relate.
SPEAKER_00 (16:58):
Yeah, yep, yep.
SPEAKER_02 (17:00):
So we've had a couple of crossovers uh
episodes, but we love when thatkind of thing happens.
So I just I wanted to make surethat to talk about that.
SPEAKER_00 (17:07):
Well, I'm really interested in the conference.
I teach at University ofMichigan in the sexual health
program, and I believe it's thesecond weekend in March.
If there isn't a conflict, I'mvery interested in that.
SPEAKER_01 (17:18):
Yeah, it's called Untangling Our Roots.
That's the name of the event.
Yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
I think my journey, my most recent journey with my
birth father finding me, itup-ended so much of my thoughts
and narratives and beliefs aboutadoption and adoptees.
And I think that it it justshifted me to be much more open
to more narratives and morerealities about living with this
(17:45):
kind of information.
I also counsel women aboutgenetic testing.
And I always tell them once youknow, you can't unknow.
So if you don't want to dogenetic testing, that's okay.
I always relate it back toopening up that message or
putting my blood out there inancestor DNA.
Like, once you do that, you haveto be prepared for what you may
(18:10):
find or who may find you.
Like I could never, you know,looking back, I've had so many
folks ask me, would you go backand do it different?
Would you have not responded?
There was absolutely nothingthat would have stopped me from
responding.
And you can't understand thatuntil you're in that situation
and you've gone your whole lifenot knowing and wanting to know
(18:32):
more.
So I think that this most recentexperience I've had over the
last several years really hasshifted how I feel.
And also, it's serendipitous towhat I do and how much, you
know, working in the breastcancer and high-risk breast
space and menopause and sexualhealth, because those are my
three specialties, and knowingfamily history really matters.
(18:56):
It even matters in the menopausespace because women who can't
look to their mother and say,what was your menopause
experience like?
When did you feel that you werestarting to have symptoms?
Or what did you do about it?
They don't have that lens toknow that there's any any kind
of familial, even breast densitycan have a familial component.
(19:17):
So I all the things that youcan't ask if you don't have that
information.
And again, family history andcancer screening, how do we take
care of those folks?
How do we provide adopteecompetent health care?
How do I look at what other riskfactors?
How do I advocate for you to getgenetic testing?
How do I advocate for you to getthat MRI, even though your risk
(19:37):
score is only 15%?
Because if you don't have familyhistory, the calculator isn't
going to put you at high risk.
So, how do I work around thatwith you?
That's really been somethingthat it's just amazing how the
journey just kind of continuesto unfold and all of your life
experiences continue to impactwhat I can give back, you know,
(19:59):
and what you can.
SPEAKER_02 (20:00):
Yeah, and I mean it's important because it not
everyone is going to be able todo that.
Not every, you know, especiallythose that are still in the fog.
So for you to be able to gothrough a double whammy of
roller coaster ride, which withthe positivity on your birth
mother's side, but also thetrauma there.
SPEAKER_00 (20:16):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (20:16):
And then the flip side with the man who birthed
you, yeah.
Not everybody could come on theother side of that and be like,
what can I do to help others inthe community?
So thank you for doing that.
SPEAKER_00 (20:24):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (20:26):
So the last question that we asked on this podcast is
Is there a musical artist or asong that you would kind of lean
on when times were really,really crazy?
Taylor Swift.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (20:40):
One song she has, when I first announced the book
last year in November, mydaughter actually found it.
It's called Deer Reader.
And it's the song that's in thebackground of that post.
And then when she came out withTortured Poets Department, my
god.
I can't even tell you how manysongs the smallest man who ever
(21:01):
lived comes to mind.
Little old me.
You know, don't be afraid oflittle old me, but you should
be.
I'm a lot stronger than youthink I am.
SPEAKER_02 (21:11):
She's been very instrumental, I think, in
helping a lot of people andempowering a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00 (21:15):
My favorite Taylor Swift quote is if you don't like
her, you haven't needed her.
And when you need her, you'llget it.
SPEAKER_01 (21:23):
That's great.
I love that.
And to me, that's I mean, ingeneral, that's what music's
about, right?
Like, you know, it's yeah, wejoke, and during podcasts are
probably the only minutes in ourweek that music isn't playing in
our house.
You know what I mean?
Like it's just it's a constant,yeah, you know.
So each music lovers.
SPEAKER_02 (21:45):
Lisa, this has been absolutely amazing.
So glad that we were able toconnect and wow, you your story
is remarkable and so amazingwhat you're doing coming out on
the other side.
SPEAKER_00 (21:56):
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
You guys are amazing.
This was perfect.
I appreciate you.
SPEAKER_02 (22:00):
Well, thank you so much again.
Thank you guys.
SPEAKER_00 (22:03):
It was such a pleasure to meet you both.
SPEAKER_02 (22:06):
Wow, Lisa.
Thank you for trusting us andour listeners with this chapter
of your story.
Part two is not easy.
It's raw, complicated, andpainfully familiar for so many
adoptees and NPEs who realizetoo late that the reunion they
hope for is not the reunion theyget.
The fact that you have to comeout on the other side to help,
(22:26):
and the fact that you have comeout on the other side to help
other adoptees and otherpatients, that's the kind of
healing art we cheer for.
Nurses don't just save lives,they rebuild their own.
If you connected with Lisa'sstory today, please check out
her book, The Adopted Nurse.
It offers even more insight,validation, and honesty.
(22:47):
Plus, far more wisdom than youcan fit into two podcast
episodes.
And remember, this is why wetell these stories.
Adoption, donor conception, NPEexperiences, they're not simple.
They're not tidy.
They're not always the Hallmarkversion people want to imagine.
But they deserve to be heard.
You deserve to be heard.
(23:07):
Thanks for spending time withus, for supporting the show, and
for supporting the nurses inyour life, especially right now
when they're fighting just to berecognized for the professionals
they are.
We'll be back next week withanother Family Twist.
And remember, Family Secrets arethe ultimate pot twist.
The Family Twist podcast ispresented by Savoie Fair
(23:27):
Marketing Communications andproduced by How the Cow Ate the
Cabbage LLC.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
The Brothers Ortiz
The Brothers Ortiz is the story of two brothers–both successful, but in very different ways. Gabe Ortiz becomes a third-highest ranking officer in all of Texas while his younger brother Larry climbs the ranks in Puro Tango Blast, a notorious Texas Prison gang. Gabe doesn’t know all the details of his brother’s nefarious dealings, and he’s made a point not to ask, to protect their relationship. But when Larry is murdered during a home invasion in a rented beach house, Gabe has no choice but to look into what happened that night. To solve Larry’s murder, Gabe, and the whole Ortiz family, must ask each other tough questions.