(S3E8) Pack Dynamics: A Teen Wolf Podcast - Visionary

In the time-honored tradition of not-telling-enough-story-per-season, it's time for a flashback episode!

In 3×08, "Visionary," we get the origin stories of both Derek Hale and Alpha Deucalion from two of the series' most unreliable narrators—Peter Hale and Gerard Argent (respectively).

In this episode, we learn all about Deucalion's past with the Hale Alpha, Derek and Cora's mother Talia, along with Deaton, Ennis, and Gerard. Is Deucalion really as ruthless and cruel as he seems? Is it possible that Gerard could get even worse? You'd be surprised. We get to see Derek awkwardly flirt while holding a basketball, sneak around abandoned locations after dark, and fall in love with a beautiful, snarky, beauty-marked (wait, this sounds familiar…) girl. Plus, we finally learn the origins of Derek's blue eyes!

Also, I guess we still have Emissaries? #MagicStilesForever

xoxo,
FotR

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Episode Transcript

(00:13):
You're listening to Pack Dynamics, a Fandom on the Rocks
podcast. Welcome back to Pack Dynamics, a
Teen Wolf podcast. I'm Emily.
And I'm Allison. And this is Season 3, Episode 8
Visionary. I don't know if I like this
episode. Yeah.
I, I don't know if I like it. I remembered liking it and then

(00:34):
I watched it and now I'm sittingand having to think about it and
I'm like, I don't actually know how I feel about this episode.
I'm hoping by the end of our little conversation I'll get to
some kind of answer, but it justmade me angrier, I think more
than enjoyable. Yeah, really.
All I remembered was oh this is the episode with Paige.
Yeah. And then?
As I watched it, I was like, is this what happened the first

(00:57):
time? Because not fully watch it,
yeah. Like I I'm so glad because so
Phantom fucks up a lot of stuff right?
Phantom has lubafied Derek, Fandom has ignored all of his
like nonsense and his villainized Scott.
Phantom has lubafied styles. Fandom takes care of Paige in a
way that Canon does not. Yes.

(01:18):
Yes, fandom takes care of Paige because Paige gets the short end
of every possible stick in this fucking episode.
This poor. Girl.
The poor girl. Just out there living a teenage
life until it's utterly ruined. And OK, so like, we're gonna,
we're gonna talk about it, we'regonna get there.
But I just like Peter's character arc through the course

(01:42):
of the series is wild. Just when you think you're like,
OK, let's bring in Peter, it's gonna be wrong.
Wrong. He has been this way forever.
He will never stop, never stop, never stopping, never stop.
Yeah, OK, before, OK, let's do the rundown of the episode.

(02:03):
Monster. Like, we just have to get that.
I just can't. I can't.
I'm so mad. Yeah, OK, so real quick, the
episode is seeking answers, Scott, Allison and Styles turn
to two unlikely narrators for help and discover a secret about
the color of a werewolf's eyes. This episode air July 22nd,
2013. Unlikely is the wrong word.

(02:23):
Unreliable. Unreliable.
Yes. Unreliable is the word. 2
narrators with vendettas and side plots and whole ass
business on the side. And like, the whole time I'm
just, I'm thinking, you know, mostly I'm getting mad at at

(02:44):
Peter because I already know that Gerard is irredeemable.
Yes. Because I'm hoping that Peter is
redeemable. And again, he's he's not, at
least not yet. And like, so I'm going through
this and the whole time I'm likeand Styles and Cora believe this
bullshit. OK, that is a question that I

(03:06):
have throughout. It is one.
Can Cora tell that any of this is a lie and is Styles savvy
enough to be like this motherfucker is not trustworthy?
Why are we sitting here listening to this shit?
Is it just because he so deeply wants to know Back story?
Because like at the end of the episode, they both kind of like

(03:27):
seem to agree that this is the, this is the, this is the truth.
Yeah, they do. They seem to.
And, and part of it feels like it's because the episode wants
to give the audience Derek's life.
Yeah. But then you're like, OK, but
you have to give me one version that is the truth.

(03:48):
Yeah, but like we we get the truth.
You see it in the flashbacks on both sides.
But it's just that like in that room, Peter is lying to Cora and
Styles and he might not even know it's AI assume that he
knows that he's lying. But like now, everything about
this at this, like this period in Derek's life, that's the

(04:11):
truth that both Cora and Stiles believe.
And then you get the flip side with Scott and Allison, with
Gerard. And like, at the end of it,
Scott is like, I don't know if you're telling me the truth or
not, but I'm gonna kill you if you're not.
I. Love that for him so much.
And it's like Scott and Allison are not taking anything that
Gerard says, like at face value.Incorrectly.

(04:32):
And they're at least playing along with him until the very
end. Yeah.
And and I think you can tell that.
Yeah, how? Gerard doesn't.
Allison gets caught up in the story a little bit and then
pulls back because she's like ohshit, I know who I'm talking to
and it doesn't seem like Cora and Stiles do that at all.
It doesn't seem like it, no. Unless there's like a cut scene

(04:54):
somewhere where they're like cool story.
What the fuck are you talking about?
Uncle Peter, who killed Sister Laura Like Nah.
Yeah, right. Uncle Peter, Who killed Sister
Laura? Who would have killed absolutely
everyone who tried to turn Lydia?
Like no. What are you doing here?
Like it, it's it's a whole fucking mess, but we should get
through the actual episode before we start digging into

(05:16):
like the after effects. But I'm just, I'm very grateful
in this moment for fandom, because fandom takes care of
Paige. And, you know, they, I mean, not
that they ever really give her like, the greatest happy ending
because, like, she always dies. Yeah, like she dies here and she
dies forever. They don't like dishonor her
memory, I guess, like Peter fucking does.

(05:38):
I just. Yeah, dishonor on your house.
Dishonor on your house, dishonoron your cow, dishonor on your
whole family. I hate her.
The worst? The worst she's.
Somehow worse. I mean, at times she's worse
than Gerard because Gerard knowsthat he's evil and Peter
pretends like he's not. Yeah, Peter pretends that he is

(05:59):
like the the great all knowing, all sacrificing werewolf, and
he's just not. He's just a Dick.
All right, so this episode has anice creepy cold open.
You've got your classic creepy forest, and we've got a young
boy running through the woods. Perfect Teen Wolf Cold open.
Indeed. But we've got those mechanical

(06:20):
stakes that the Arjuns have usedwell in the future in our
previous episodes, but in the future to like corral the
werewolves in the direction thatthey want them to go, using like
a high pitched Sonic squealing, terrible sound.
Right. So we know that this has to be a
werewolf and that he's being hunted, which sucks.

(06:43):
And then he runs into somebody else, and that other dude is
like, you're a hail, aren't you?So we're starting to put the
pieces together. So we got some clues and then
that other kid, man boy, whatever, gets an arrow right
through his throat. Oof.
So he's out. And then another arrow comes at
our our hero, but someone else who is half wolfed out catches

(07:05):
it. Welcome back to Therapy boy.
Hey, who's this? We know this face.
Hi therapy boy. Hi Therapy Boy.
So this is the same actor who played Therapy Boy, who played
the vision in Lydia's hallucinations.
Who is? In season.
In Season 2. Two.
Yeah. Who is young Peter Hale?

(07:27):
Hi, Uncle Peter. So this other kid has to be
young Derek Hale, and honestly, it's good casting.
It's great casting. Yeah, this works.
Fantastic casting. It's incredible.
And those two take off running, and behind them are Gerard and
Chris Argent. Looking not a day younger, a day
younger in present Canon. No, Chris Arjun is clean shaven.

(07:52):
So yes. There's that.
Yeah, no, they're they're both fully grown adults, so Derek and
Peter have both aged a lot. Which is funny, because, like,
really, they're not that much younger than they are in the
present. No.
Like it this is not that much time.
And so Chris wants these two brought back alive and he's

(08:13):
doing his like, we go by the code because remember, Chris is
the good hunter who doesn't justkill werewolves for sport like
Gerard, because that always works out.
So we find that the two Hales hiding underground in like a
woodsy some. Kind of cellar like cellar
bunker thing. Yeah, like a bunker.

(08:35):
And then we get a voice over of Cora going.
They were hiding there for two days.
And she, like, melts into the scene.
Which is kind of cool. It's gorgeous.
It's just gone. It's just odd.
It's very like, it breaks you out of the story because you're
like, what is going on? Yeah.
And it's her telling this story in the present to well, she has

(08:59):
Styles and Peter and she's like we were taught to hide and to
heal. And then Styles like what is 2
day standard for healing? Because they're wondering where
Derek is and if, like, he is somewhere hiding and healing for
two days. Yeah, because we in in our last
episode, we found we, we left the scene with Derek just having

(09:25):
been used to sacrifice Boyd in his vault and so with with both
Cora and Styles present and thenDerek ran away, I guess.
Yeah, we don't know where he we don't know what he did.
We didn't see it, but he is now gone.
He is now gone. I did like that you said Boyd

(09:45):
was killed by alphas and not that Derek killed Boyd.
Correct. Boyd was killed by Alphas.
That is correct. That is correct, yes.
So that at least she's not placing any blame on Boyd's
death on Derek. Yeah, no, because, like, Cora
and Derek have been shown to have kind of a tumultuous
relationship, for what it's worth.
But like, even she knows that like this wasn't his fault.

(10:07):
Yeah, and Cora's kind of waxing poetic about how like, there's
something different about Derek now.
And that's when Styles asks whathe was like before.
And then Peter just comes sauntering down the staircase to
be like he was a lot like Scott,actually unbearably romantic and
profoundly narcissistic. I see.

(10:28):
The unbearably romantic, kind of, but like, profoundly
narcissistic. I don't know what in Scott or in
Derek. In Derek, Like, do we think
Derek was profoundly narcissistic just because he was
15? He was profoundly narcissistic
in Peter's eyes because he didn't immediately listen to

(10:49):
everything that Peter says. Fair.
So like, because neither Derek nor Scott, who he's being like
thrown out of the bus a little bit here, are profoundly
narcissistic. They just both have a second
guessing like pause moment before blindly listening to
Peter. Peter talks and they're both

(11:09):
like, exactly. Also I would just I'd like to
state for the record we are recording this on the 2nd of
June. Happy pride.
Happy pride. It was a riot.
You mean to tell me that the Derek Hale back story episode is
Styles asking questions of Cora and Peter?
What in the name of Pride month mockery is this bullshit?

(11:30):
Yes, it is. This is Styles wanting to know
what his packmate is like. This is and why is he so sad
now? And why is he so sad?
Like what? Why?
Why was this from like a writer's perspective?
Why was this the narrative storythat you set up to tell the
background? Yeah, they broke them into
interesting groups. It's Peter Styles and Cora, and

(11:54):
then Scott and Allison. Isaac is gone.
Boyd and Erica are in France. They're in France.
They're in France and we don't have anybody else.
Lydia is non existent in this episode.
I guess she was studying. I don't know why she's not here.

(12:15):
Yeah, I don't know why she's here, but like.
She was at the loft when she wasthe fight and then I guess went.
Home. So was Isaac, and so was
Jennifer. Yeah.
Like you fuck. Jennifer.
But fuck yeah. But like, you could do this
episode. You could do the Peter Kora
Isaac thing or the Peter Kora Styles thing with Isaac.

(12:39):
Yes. That Isaac is still part of
pack. Isaac is coming after Boyd.
Isaac is like, Isaac is here, Isaac is home, he's part of the
pack. And you could do this by making
it Styles. You have like you could have
made it literally anybody but Scott Nelson who are hanging out
with Gerard. Like by making it Styles, they
have made so many additional choices.

(12:59):
If they wanted to really hammer home a Jennifer relationship,
she could have still been there being like, what?
What was my sweet Derek like? Yeah.
Before. Before, yeah, you could have
100% you could have. But no, it's styles.
What kind of nonsense is this? I'm so I'm like, I'm not mad
about it, but this I think is sort of for me.

(13:23):
And I haven't done the research,I haven't looked at the data,
but like this is where Hale packstyles starts to form in my
brain. OK, Yeah.
Because you very clearly got like Scott and Allison over here
doing a thing. He's with Deaton, he's with
Gerard, he's with Chris. He's like over here doing a

(13:46):
thing. And then you've got the, the,
the Derek conversation with Peter and Cora in the loft with
Styles. There's just there's such a
separation and usually, and we would have assumed that like
Styles would have headed out with with Allison and Scott
versus hanging around waiting for Derek to come home.

(14:08):
OK, Yeah, I. Just like I in my brain it I'm
just like, I'm like you have youhave set up so many interesting
things by like asking styles to be in the slot and ask these
questions. I'm just my my goggles are on
really tight, guys. They're on really tight.
If I need to loosen them, I'm gonna try.
But like I I just have so many questions but.
I mean and Styles is so inquisitive.

(14:31):
Yeah, he's gonna ask. He's gonna ask some.
Questions. But there also seems to have
been some time, so two days or however long.
We don't know how long it's been.
He says it's been 2 days 'cause like, yeah.
So Styles is like asking basically he's been in hiding
for two days. Has Styles Wise styles at the
loft. Exactly.

(14:52):
So he's where Derek should be. He's where Derek should be.
Yeah. Like there's there's there's
threads missing, but they're pretty.
They're pretty clear threads like I.
Yep. Oh look, it's Grandpa Gerard.
Yeah, so we've got Gerard and Allison, but Allison brings in

(15:13):
Scott and they want information about Dekalian and that whole
situation. But if they want information,
Gerard wants something 1st and that is for Scott to pull pain
from him because he he's gooshing black constantly.
Apparently it hurts and that is his price for information.

(15:37):
I guess, yeah. So I guess he's got to do that
for him. And he does, because Scott is a
good boy, Scott. And they want to get their info.
Yeah. So we have our first real
flashback of of Paige. And so we see a girl playing
cello at school. I think we have to assume this

(15:59):
is still the Beacon Hills High School.
Yeah. It all looks the same.
And she is alone in the music room playing cello.
I guess during a free period. Sure.
And then she's interrupted by a bunch of boys playing basketball
in the hallway, and she goes outthere to confront them.

(16:19):
And we've got our young Derek Hale playing with a bunch of
unnamed boys. And she kind of tells them to,
like, knock it off. She's trying to concentrate.
And he's like you take the ball from me and I'll stop being
annoying. Typical dude bro. 15 year old
behavior. Such a 15 year old behavior.

(16:40):
He's so cocky. Cocky basketball shit Derek Hale
like I looking through my notes,I definitely changed my mind on
this pretty quick because he like he grows on me real fast.
But this particular little shit bag, I just, I just want to like
grab him by the ears and just shake him like a.
Little bit yeah. And, and part of me was like,
doesn't he have a bunch of sisters like.

(17:01):
Yeah, he's got two sisters. Do you think, like, Laura in
theory is at school with him right now?
Yeah. Like, I don't think Laura's that
much older than Derek. Like dude.
Like haven't you been trained better than this?
Yeah, like, come on guys. Also, let's please also look at

(17:21):
Derek with his tank top and flannel.
I know. He's he's he's got the flannel
over shirt and I'm like, oh, hello.
He does, yeah. Got to walk Rock the flannel
man. But Paige's reaction is to just
walk away. Good.
Which is the correct response? He's.
He's like baiting her and all ofhis like shitty little friends
are just like laughing at her 'cause she can't do the thing.

(17:42):
It's like, shut up, guys. Yeah, the correct response to
this kind of behavior from boys is to just walk away.
Just walk away. 'Cause like, they look stupid
anyway, so just let them look stupid, yeah.
And she does. Yep.
So he comes because obviously now he's she's like intrigued
him. He comes to apologize to her and
like demand her name. And she's like, I'll tell you my

(18:03):
name if you can play one instrument in this room.
I love, I love like that she's also being a cocky asshole.
Yeah, they're both 40 cocky little shits.
I love this. Good job guys.
She's so cute I wish she had like more back story about her
like why is she just alone in here playing by herself but he.
Derek grabs the triangle becauseyou don't have to have any skill

(18:27):
really to like, Ding a triangle.He doesn't have to read music,
he just has to be able to play it.
He just has to be able to Ding. And I was like, ah, clever boy.
Clever boy and. She's into it, I get it, She's
cute. So here we have to do a little
bit of trivia. It's really easy trivia, I
promise. Oh God.
So look at look at Paige, look at Paige and her cute little

(18:50):
face. Oh, OK.
Perhaps. Who does she remind you of?
Styles. With her cute little pale her
like her pale little face and her little upturned nose and
that beauty mark right under hereye.
Yep, dark hair. Like, I'm, I'm sitting like
looking at this, like how on purpose was this done?
How on purpose was 'cause they could have made Paige anybody?

(19:13):
Yeah. They could have made her
literally anybody. Anybody she.
Only has a last name because of IMDb.
Oh, sure. And honestly, I think it's
Polish. Let's see IMDb Teen Wolf.
I am Deba. Kasi cava.
Oh God, sure. Like, yeah, yeah, I just.

(19:35):
Sure. And do we want to know who else
she looks like? And this that I'm not gonna, I'm
not gonna hold you to this, but I'm just gonna gonna ask, do you
know who else she kind of looks like?
Jennifer. Eli, OH.
OK. Yeah, well, Eli also looks like
styles. And the three of them all have
some stuff in common. They all kind of have some stuff

(19:58):
in common. And I'm just, I'm still, I'm
just a girl staring at my computer screaming into the
universe. Was this on purpose?
I haven't even seen it and I have so many questions about Eli
that like I don't understand that shit at all.
I don't understand. But like, Paige is wonderful and
adorable and I love her and I'm constantly asking like, why, why

(20:20):
did you make why did you cast her to look so much like styles?
Like this is one of those thingsthat like casting is allowed to
make choices, but sometimes casting like goes by directions.
Like I, I I'm confused. We have questions.

(20:42):
We have questions. Well, so does Allison, and they
have questions about the third body that was found.
Dun Dun. And Gerard is kind of suggesting
that it was expected that Deatonwould survive his attack.
And Gerard's like like maybe Deaton is the Dirac.

(21:06):
You know what? It is not a bad guess because he
is in fact a druid. He is a druid.
He is a druid, you know, We don't know a lot about him.
Some shady shit kind of pops up sometimes.
He's got that sister. We don't really know what she's
up to. Who knows?
But what we do know is that Gerard likes to start shit.

(21:27):
He loves to start shit, it's hisfavorite thing.
And we know that Deaton is mostly on Team Scott and Gerard
is not on Team Scott. So maybe this is the point in
the episode where you're kind ofsupposed to be like, is Gerard
fully telling the truth when he's when he is talking?

(21:47):
Yeah. And then he also says that
Deukalian can't be beaten, whichis the information that Scott
and Allison were there to get. And then he's like, but he's not
always blind. And instead of just saying what
he means, we have 40 minutes of story to get through.
And it's not even accurate. Yeah, like.
It's not even what happened. You have to set up this whole

(22:09):
thing for Scott and Allison to only have to learn more about it
later, like. Right, right.
Dude. And kind of the same thing with
Peter jumping in to tell the story about Paige and Derek and
his whole thing about because what he's going back to, to the
loft. Styles had asked.

(22:30):
Like, well, what changed Derek? What changed Derek?
And Peter was like a girl. Do you know why some wolves have
blue eyes now? It's like story time with Peter
Hale. What he's telling you like
happened but didn't happen. And do they ever really find
out? Like no.
Like it's some like. I would love, I would love to

(22:53):
hear like these two stories in like season 12.
Sure. I, you know, by Deukalian and,
and by Derek, Like Derek and Eliare sitting down to the Eli's
like I've got a crush and Derek's like, let me tell you my
first one, like be careful. Like I would like, love to hear
this from Derek's perspective. Yeah.

(23:14):
Mm, hmm, totally. So be like, actually, you know
what happened? And Styles and Cora and the
corridor being like that lying bastard, Yeah.
That bitch, I'm gonna kill him again.
Gonna kill him again. Son of a bitch.
Pretty much like. So.
But yes, Gerard, story time withGerard and story time with

(23:34):
Peter. Not great.
So we have to go back to the so these these scenes are very kind
of short and inner cut and we'regoing back and forth between the
present with Gerard, the presentat the loft and then flashbacks.
Do we want to like, stay at one story and then go to the other
one? I don't know what do you think

(23:55):
cause 'cause flashback 1 is Derek and Paige.
Yeah. And then flashback 2 is is
decalian. Is decalian and they don't
intersect really they. Only they only intersect once.
They intersect once. Yeah.
Yeah, kind of. We'll, we'll try.
And how about let's go all the way through Uncle Peter until we

(24:19):
get to the point where it crosses over and then we go to
Gerard? OK, cool.
So OK, so we're we're with the loft and Uncle Peter and the
flashbacks. So style.
And OK, here is where they try to like, reconcile some ages and
they can't do it, which I think is hilarious.
Right. So Styles was like, so Derek was

(24:40):
a sophomore? How old was he then?
How old were you? How old are you now?
And the show doesn't answer it. They're just like, they just
don't. Peter just looks at Styles and
he's like nothing. And Cora's like 17 now and
that's all they say. Like, what the fuck?
Answer the question. I just love that they do that.

(25:02):
I mean, I, I don't like it, but I like it and kind of a yeah,
you fucked up, didn't you? Not as young as we could have
been, but not as old as you might expect.
Yeah, yeah, like I get it if. An answer is that.
It's that the actors are too oldfor the characters the.
Actors are too old for the characters.
They're too old for the characters.

(25:22):
I'm not mad about it but like Yikes.
Ian, I love you. You are great for Peter.
You're just too old for the character that they set out. 10
years too old. And like it happened in Harry
Potter too. I get it, you're great for the
character. You're just too old and like it
just fucks up what they put in the script and.
It's honestly fun. Rickman.

(25:44):
Alan Rickman's voice was correct.
Alan Rickman, the correct casting.
He's 40 years, too. Old.
He was 40 years too old. The whole part about Severus
Snape is that he's like, not that much older than everybody
else is like the the point of itis that he's a peer of all the
adults who are making his life shit.
Yes, that's. The point?
That's the whole point of him being such a douche.

(26:05):
Like. Severus Snape, apologist in the
House. Yeah, well.
That's another podcast. That's a yeah, that's a
different podcast. That's that's, that's a, that's
a different thing. That's a different problem.
But it's like, you know, and especially 'cause we'll go into
Season 4 and we'll start talkingabout young Derek, but like,
young Peter is supposed to be like vaguely in high school, but

(26:28):
he's like, not in high school. Did he age like 30 years?
Like what? Yeah, 'cause he, I don't think
he is in high school because when he shows up at the lunch
table, Derek's like, what are you doing here?
So I think he's out of high school, but not by that much.
But not by that much. Yeah.
Like, yeah. So so in this this next piece of

(26:51):
the flashback, Derek and Paige, well, OK, Peter is saying that
Derek and Paige would like make out in this abandoned
distillery, which is kind of an important location to both
flashbacks and Peter's like I used to be Derricks best friend
and his closest confidant, but really you see him just spying

(27:13):
through like a crack in the distillery on Derek and Page.
Stalker. You're just stalking these two
and for what reason? Probably just to keep, well, I
don't know, to keep tabs on Derek and also to make sure that
he's not hurting Paige. Or to see how he can use Paige
to manipulate Derek like. That's the one, probably the
manipulation. Yeah.

(27:34):
So at some point, so Derek gets spooked by a noise, which is
good because the alpha packs enter and at this point in the
timeline, there are several alpha packs and we've got
Dekalian with two eyeballs and you have Collie and you have
Ennis. Yeah, Collie with her whole pack

(27:55):
and Ennis with his whole pack, Kayleen with his whole pack.
There's like a whole they're, they're separate packs at this
point and they're all talking about a missing pack member who
got shot through the throat. And that's our dude from the
cold open who was taken to this distillery, strung up and cut in
half. Now who do we know who would do

(28:15):
that? There's only one grandpa with a
broad sword that comes to mind. Yes, yes.
So Gerard purposely did that forfor sport, for sport.
And Ennis's people are like, well, Ennis's beta killed a
hunter and that's why he was killed in retribution.
So that's not great. But Ennis is like grumpy pants,

(28:36):
real reactive, and nothing is going to go right with these
packs in town. So Gerard is the one telling
this story to Scott. Oh no, we have to stay with
Derek and and and. No, I think we have to do it in
chronological order. Yeah, 'cause otherwise.
Yeah. Yeah, we do.
Yeah. Well.
Suffice it to say, dear listener, that neither Peter nor

(28:58):
Gerard is telling the truth. They're not.
I mean, they're telling of, they're telling a version.
So the the the flashbacks we seeare like the truth question,
like quotation marks, but both Peter and Gerard are like lying
through their teeth on the different kinds of setups and
motivations that people and characters have.

(29:19):
Yeah, Yep. And is this the point where
Ennis drew the the swirly thing in the wall?
Yeah. So I think it's in this because
there's a, there's a, the big hack, the big group gathering of
all of these very powerful werewolves, because there's a
very powerful alpha that lives in Beacon Hills that she can

(29:40):
shapeshift. And you know, Gerard's like
spinning this like magical web of tails.
And so you look out of the distillery door and a wolf comes
to you that like big black wolf with the big red eyes that shows
up everywhere, and it turns intotall hail.
Who? Is established in this moment
the matriarch who is establishedas the wolf that they would

(30:02):
quote go to for advice and guidance.
So Talia is kind of set up to belike the alpha of alphas as all
of the alphas would come to her to seek answers to complicated
problems. A piece of fan in that's in
here, there is a so most of the characters who speak in this

(30:22):
little gathering of alphas, it'sColleen and this Dukelian and
then a guy named Marco who's sassing Dukelian and then this
girl, this like other girl who'skind of standing next to Colleen
hanging out and then she goes and puts the clothes on Talia
when she transforms back into a person.

(30:43):
Is this supposed canonically youtransform naked right?
Canonically, you transform naked.
Is this supposed to be Laura? Oh.
Maybe. Is this supposed to be Laura?
Was Laura kind of, you know, getting the getting the
training? Was she like hanging out with
these alphas? Was she like the Hail pack
representative in this big gaggly group of whatever?

(31:05):
I guess she'd be the right age, right?
But we don't know 'cause they'renever.
Yeah, 'cause they never talk about it.
So yeah, I just again I have, I have some questions.
Questions. Yeah, no, it does.
It says. IMDb says that Laura Hale is
credited in this episode. Well, banana Boat, there we go.
It's Laura. It's Laura.

(31:26):
Hi, Laura. So.
Well, the back story that this fucking show could have just
been like, thank you, Laura. Yeah, you could have just been.
Thank you, Laura. Thank you, my dear, sweet Laura.
My dear eldest daughter. My dear eldest, yeah.
My next in line. My next in line.
The air to my. The air to my teeth, I don't
know, it wouldn't have taken much.

(31:48):
Yeah, seriously, it wouldn't have taken that much, but
Deukalian is in this space and is trying so hard to be like a
calm and rational leader. Yes, in, in the flashbacks and
in this. What I couldn't I write down how
long ago we're assuming this was.
It was like 7 years. So yeah, because Derek is 15,

(32:10):
we're assuming he's between 'cause this is season 3 now.
So he's like 2223. Yeah.
So we're 7-8 years. Yeah, this version of Decalion
is like kind of calm, trying to keep shit together.
He doesn't want the death of this one wolf to become a war
between these 34A packs and the hunters, which he is rightly

(32:34):
assuming is what's gonna happen.Yeah.
And it's Ennis is the one who's like Vengeance scrawl on the
wall. Yeah.
And does that actually. Very cool, it looked cool.
That was some good effects. It was great.
Yeah, I was like, all right, cool.
So then again we get more lore and season 3 is great with lore.

(32:56):
And a lot of lore in this fucking episode.
A lot of. Lore in this episode.
And so we flashed back to the loft where they're talking about
Ennis and Ennis has lost a beta and the kind of pain that comes
with losing a beta. The the, the overwhelming need
for revenge. And it's Cora who says losing a

(33:17):
member of your pack isn't like losing family.
It's like losing a limb. And if we take the if we take a
big pause here for a moment, many pack members has Derek
lost? All of his limbs.
He is a walking torso. All of his limbs, like he he
just got his arm cut off. Again.
Just like just now, he lost. Yeah.

(33:40):
He's in the last what week? He's however long has lost Erica
and then Boyd. Boyd and he, I mean, technically
he killed Boyd like it was his claws.
Like he didn't, he didn't do it,but like it was his claws.
Yeah, he was the weapon used to kill him.
Yeah, like I just. Yeah.

(34:00):
Losing him of your pocket isn't like losing your family.
It's like losing a limb. And so Cora really sets up the
kind of traumatic loss that Ennis is feeling and that maybe
at this moment, Derek is feeling.
Yep, yeah. And it's, you know, canonically
that really holds. I think fandom really does more

(34:21):
with that, and I think partiallybecause you can write so much
more internally about that kind of struggle then you can portray
on screen, or at least a show like like Teen Wolf was able to.
Because I think a lot of that islike internal struggle and
strife. I would have been nice to see a
lot more of that. Like it would have made a very

(34:43):
sad show constantly to be like, yeah, I'm not feeling it today.
My heart hurts. Yeah, my heart hurts too much
like they they would have just shown up as ghosts.
All the time. Yeah, all the.
Time that and that would be amazing.
Derek just seeing the ghosts of his betas all the time.
Of Erica and Boyd and his mom and Laura just following him

(35:06):
around all the time. That'd be great.
So Peter kind of takes the the the story time next and he says
where I saw profound loss, Dereksaw an opportunity to always be
with her. And my notes read First of all,
Sir, fuck you. Yeah, first of all, no.

(35:26):
Absolutely not. Where Derek saw profound loss,
Peter saw the opportunity to manipulate his nephew.
Yeah. And I want to know what Peter
really was going to gain from doing this to Paige.
Like, was it a short term, like,oh, if if we do this to Paige,

(35:50):
this is what I'm going to get out of it?
Or did he have like a long game plan?
Because it wasn't going to be Peter's or no, it wouldn't have
been Peter's beta. It wouldn't have been because
none of them were alphas. No, it was.
So he says a little bit later that like Ennis is doing this as
a favor to Talia or as a favor to Derek to get in good with

(36:13):
Talia because everybody wanted to be good in good with Talia.
But I feel like the way Peter saw it, it was that Peter like
set it all up. And so then Ennis would be.
A little in debt to Peter. He'd be a little in debt to
Peter. I got you in good with my
sister. You owe me one.

(36:34):
Yeah, I just think it's such a small debt like oh, I I got you
in a little. The the triangle is so little
right like the. Triangle is so little, but Peter
is so desperate. He's so desperate, like you made
my nephew for Talia, like you made my son a little bit happy.
I'll remember that. Well, but basically it would.

(36:56):
It would mean that Ennis's pack and the Hale pack would have to
be in good relations at all times because Derek and Paige
would be together. And so you couldn't.
You couldn't make war between Ennis and Talia.
Right, because the packs have always held true to.
Because you're, because Romeo and Juliet, because you're not

(37:18):
supposed to kill each other over, you know, young love.
You're not supposed to. You're really not.
So I really love the way that that episode a little bit sets
up. Derek is kind of an echo to
Scott, or I guess Scott is an echo to Derek is Derek is
sitting in, He's sitting in class and he can hear, I think

(37:39):
it's Ave. Maria that Paige is playing in
the music room, that he can hearover his entire class, over all
the kids in the hallway. Yeah, you can hear her playing
halfway across campus. She's his anchor.
Oh no. Oh, nobody.
Oh. Nobody that's.
Not going to work out for you. He's he's such a cutie patootie
and like finally, like a good job.

(38:01):
You made it. I know.
You made it to cutie Patootie Dom.
I did. And you know, you hear Peter's
voice over with like, Derek having this constant fear that
something was going to happen toPaige.
Like did was he or was that you?Like are you telling Cora and

(38:21):
Styles that Derek had a constantfear, or was that really a
constant fear? No, that was just Peter.
That was Peter projecting. Yep, because that's when we see
young Peter sitting with Derek at lunch and like looking over
at another table where Paige is alone and being like, well, I'd
be worried too about her findingout that we're wolves because

(38:42):
you know, they always leave whenwhen they find out we're wolves.
It'll happen. It'll happen to you.
And the only way to make sure that you'll always be together
is to turn her. But then in the loft, adult
Peter is like I told him not to do it.
I told him not to do it. I told him it was a terrible
idea. I.
Bet he even blames me, the little choke in his voice.

(39:04):
I bet he even blames me. Like fuck.
Off Fuck you first of all. Fuck.
First of all, fuck you. And second of all, it flashes
back to young Peter going I havethe perfect idea.
It's like God. Damn it.
So. Much.
I also really love the sponsoredby Reese's Peanut Butter Cups.
Talking about perfect combinations again.

(39:25):
The perfect I. Was like, I was like, oh look.
I can eat one of those right now.
Yes, on a very on an only slightly related side note, when
we go to the grocery store in Sweden, because it's like an
hour and a half away, but they have a much more interesting
selection of food than what I get normally they have like a
little America section. Oh, adorable.
And every once in a while, they'll have Reese's Peanut

(39:47):
butter cups in it. And I'm like, you're great.
They have a. Little Allison Reese's peanut
butter cups. I love, I love Reese's peanut
butter cups. They're so hard to ship.
And I'm just like, I can't because.
They melt. Because they melt.
I just want to go home and eat alot of Reese's peanut butter
cups. So I like to get the stuff it's
called it's oat house. It's oat butter.

(40:09):
Yum. And they have a flavor that's
like chocolate chip, like chocolate chip cookie dough that
sounds amazing in the summer. You can't get it with the
chocolate chips in it. It's a you have to get it
chipless because the chips melt when they ship.
Yeah, and. I was like so I missed getting a

(40:29):
jar of with the chips before they stop shipping for the
summer and I was like no how so now you have to get it chipless
and I was like that's fine like those.
I appreciate your attention to quality.
But like, Peter is just lying out of his ass right now.
He's just lying. He's lying to these kids.
And Styles and Cora are learningabout all of this because like,

(40:51):
Styles is kind of learning aboutit for the first time, right?
But Cora is, I think if we like kind of extrapolate a little
bit. It's not long after Paige that
Derek finds Kate. No, it would have been like a
year because he was like. It would have been like less
than that. It's like it's right in this
because, you know, we know because Deukalian and Talia are

(41:14):
doing all of these things and then Gerard and to Deukalian.
So Gerard knows what's going on with Derek.
And if if like Chris is in town,Kane will be there in a minute.
Yeah. So like, it's, it's very
reasonable that all of this is happening like within a year's
time. And so Cora, who was very, very

(41:38):
young, what was she? So she's 17 now.
How long? Like 10.
Yeah, so she would have been, you know, 5th, 6th grade is
finally getting to learn about what happened to her Big
Brother, what changed and how did it happen.
And fucking Uncle Peter is lyingto her face.
And I'm just. Awful asshole, I hate it.

(42:02):
I hate it. Speaking of things that I hate,
Speaking of things that I fucking hate.
So we next go to Chris and Gerard who find this like seller
that Derek and Peter were hidingout in and we get more like
lore. So there's this big tree root

(42:23):
thing in the cellar and there's blood, kind of old blood all
over the over the tree roots. And they start talking about the
druids and how the druids would come in and do work on this like
big central tree in a Grove. And Gerard starts talking about
the legend of like Han and how he what and how they were cursed

(42:45):
by Zeus and the druids came in to help like Han and his
followers like control the shiftand control the curse and then
they all work together and it's just like why?
Why? Part of me I, I didn't check out
during this, but I was like, areyou just like obfuscating?
Why are we telling this whole myth that's like, it's like a

(43:06):
real myth. And then the show added in,
yeah, a bit about like at the end about the werewolves and
stuff. And he's like, this is where we
get the word lycanthropy, like, OK.
Cool guys. And oh, but this is also like
the first time we hear the the Nematon.
Nematon. Nematon.
Nematon. The Nematon the.
Nematon. Is the name of that big ass

(43:28):
tree, yeah. But yeah, the whole story, I was
like, OK, I mean, this episode'snot very long and we got a lot
to do, so come on. Skedaddle.
But. All of this comes together to
say two things. One, that there are druids who
work directly with werewolves and that they always have and

(43:49):
that they continue to do so to this day.
Who they're a a, a druid who works with a pack is called an
emissary. And it turns, it turns out it
gets name dropped that veterinarian, Doctor Allen
Deaton was the emissary to the hail pack.

(44:09):
Deaton worked directly with Talia.
Now we are finally here to answer questions from season
fucking one. Remember in season 1 when the
sheriff was like, hey, have you ever seen this like swirly
pattern before on a, on a creature?
Hey, do you know about that? Like hail, fire that.
Happened the way. Back Hey, have you ever heard of

(44:31):
a guy named Peter Hale? Hey, could you solve this case
in like 5 minutes if you could just tell me exactly what's
going on in town? Oh you could, but you won't.
Thanks. Like so I think the answer was
that they that the writers just didn't know.
I think that's. True, but looking back at it I
just get so mad at season 1 Deaton.

(44:51):
Oh yeah. You knew everything.
You knew all of it. You knew about the Alpha Pack.
You knew about Ducalian. You knew about the Hailfire.
You knew about Peter coming back.
You knew about all of it. You knew about all of it.
You knew. Yeah, you knew.
You knew. And you said nothing.
You knew and you said nothing. And so again, core hail coming
in. Dropping some Teen Wolf lore

(45:11):
that packs have emissaries but the emissary is a secret.
Sometimes the emissary is a secret, even to the pack.
That doesn't make any sense. That's just that's backfill for
why people didn't recognize eachother.
Yeah, it's got to be. Yeah, it's got to be.
It has absolutely got to be. But Alan Deaton is the Halpac

(45:34):
Emissary cannon cannon cannon. Yep, and has been for a long
time and never aged. Never not.
Once I'm actually into the fact that the emissaries could, like,
live a long time, yeah. It makes sense.
I don't think that's cannon, butit's definitely fannin.
It's cannon in my heart. It's.

(45:55):
Cannon in my heart. I don't think they've said it.
So I don't think we can qualify it as fannin or, sorry, as
Cannon, but I think we can qualify it as fannin, and I'm OK
with that. I'm into it.
Fucking Dean just hiding all hissecrets.
OK, where does that leave us? That leaves us at the flashback
of Deaton talking to Talia and Dekalian.

(46:17):
Yeah, and they're trying to convince Dekalian, is trying to
convince Deaton and Talia to meet with Gerard, Yes, to kind
of come to come to a truce because Dekalian doesn't want
war. He wants to solve this conflict
peacefully. Yes, and.
Talia says that Gerard Arden is a complete psychopath and she is

(46:39):
not wrong. She's not wrong.
Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah. I mean, obviously, I mean, we're
the kind of people who love backstory episodes to be like how
what are the conflicts that the Argents and the the Hales have
had like going back 100 years? Let's how did, what does Talia
know about Gerard and Chris? What are their private?
But they're not going to do that.

(46:59):
Are you telling me that that Alpha Talia Hale, who knows and
has worked with and around Gerard and Christopher Argent,
does not know what an Argent smells like enough to smell an
Argent on her son? You know, you don't think.

(47:20):
You don't think? Yeah.
You don't think? Yeah, I know, I know.
So, unfortunately for literally all of us, our next flashback is
our sweet page. Yeah, she is at the school late
at night. And the first time I watched
this, I was like, what are you doing there?
And it's, she has a piece of paper in her hand that if you

(47:42):
don't know to look for it, you're never going to see it.
And it's she has a, you basically have to know this to
know it. She has a note in her hand that
she thinks Derek has written herto tell her to meet her at the
school. Yeah, that's why she's there.
That's why she's there. But if you don't know that
you're not, you really can't tell that.
Which I think is unfortunate, but it's not Derek that she's

(48:07):
about to meet. It's Ennis in the hallway,
completely wolfed out and ready to pounce.
So we're just supposed to believe as as consumers of this
media, that Derek set up page toget bitten by Ennis?
No, no, no. That's an Uncle Peter plan.
That is an Uncle Peter Pan. That's an Uncle Peter plan.

(48:27):
Because Derek is like, hanging out in the locker room, gripping
his emotional support basketball, like listening to
this, Yeah. We're supposed to believe that
he was just going to like, wait while this happened?
And do we know that if at this age, Derek has ever seen someone
get turned? I doubt it.
Know what happens? I doubt it.

(48:50):
Yeah, and like, why pick the grossest of the alpha?
I mean, yeah, he wouldn't. This is it's obviously all
Peter, so he's listening in while Anna's attacks page.
It's not going well, no. It's not going well, She.
Is screaming and crying and it'stoo much for Derek.
He comes and busting out of there.

(49:10):
And also, Peter is listening to this happen, I think, because
he's gross. Yeah, because he's the worst.
So Derek comes busting out to attack Ennis and try to stop the
bite. He just gets heeded into the
wall. Correct.
Like he is small boy. There's no way he's stopping
this and it doesn't matter. It's too late.
Paige has been bitten. Paige has been bitten and so

(49:35):
like Ennis just holds Derek downto like watch Paige suffer and
Peter, the look at his face is like how has it all gone wrong?
No, I couldn't imagine this happening.
Like like. Sir.
Fucking piece of shit like and okay, does Derek not remember
that this happened with Ennis ordoes he not?

(49:58):
Because like in the future, he sees Ennis and he's not like you
bit Page. Yeah, I mean, like from a, from
a realistic standpoint, it probably wasn't written yet.
From an emotional standpoint, assoon as like, Derek brings up
Paige and Scott's gonna ask about Paige and then Derek's
gonna talk about Paige, and he doesn't want to do that.
Both Derek and Ennis were present, so they already know

(50:21):
the beef that they have with each other.
Sure, Yeah, yeah, 'cause there's, there's when you look
back on it, you're like, so did you not remember that this is
the guy who killed your girlfriend, Like.
Remember that. Remember that.
You know what that happened. So yeah, it's not great for
Paige. And instead of continuing the
storyline, the show opts to rollback to Gerard, and Deaton has

(50:44):
come to arrange this meeting with Dekalian.
Both sides has told a story about either the scorpion and
the frog or the scorpion and theturtle.
Yeah. And I think just to show that
there are differing and maybe conflicting viewpoints, they
each have a different name for the same story, but it's the
same story about Scorpion of theFrog, but Gerard has a different

(51:07):
name for it. And that the is it The frog
knows it's a trap or get. I forget how it all goes, but
it's all about it being a trap. It's just my nature.
It's just my nature that I'm a beast.
So Gerard and his hunters are meeting up with Decalion and in
the the distillery which I don'tknow who is making booze like

(51:29):
what was going on here. Instead of having a nice call
meeting Gerard opens up some sort of valve to release a a
white gas on both the wolves andhis own hunters.
In the story, he calls it an ambush to Allison.
Yeah, and Allison's like they attacked you.

(51:51):
And then we watch the flashback and it's just Gerard who then
proceeds to take his baseball bat, who like, and he starts to
talk about this. You know, the first weapon that
man ever produced was a was a spiked Mace.
And he so we talked like way earlier when they were talking

(52:12):
about Ennis beta, who had been sliced in half.
It's like they they pulled his own claws out of his hands, and
they pulled his own claws out ofhis hand so that Gerard could
attach them to a baseball bat. Yeah, Rose.
And it it like, I was sitting here going like, why would
Gerard want to make a werewolf claw baseball bat until he

(52:33):
started whacking his own men over the face because Dukeili
was like, you those are your ownmen.
Those are your own men. And I'm sitting here going like,
yeah, but Gerard killed them. But it's going to look like
Deukalian did it because it's got werewolf claw marks.
Sure is that. Bastard, that bastard.

(52:53):
Mm hmm. He's the worst.
The fucking worst. The worst?
Deukalian crawls out of the barnonly to get, you know, caught by
Gerard. And Deukalian's like, I had a
vision of peace. And as soon as he says that,
you're like, Oh no. Sorry dude, Doom for the

(53:14):
narrative. Doomed.
Gerard stabs him through the eyes with two of those like
flash bang arrows and they like spark in his head.
I really appreciate that Gerard stabbed only deep enough with a
pointy arrow through his eyes and not his brain.
Yeah. Like level of the strength was

(53:35):
really impressive for me. It was very petty.
He could have killed him I thinkmaybe, but didn't just just
fully blinded him so that that'snice.
So we, we've come through all ofthis to learn that Gerard thinks
that he was 100% the good guy and that he defended his people

(53:55):
and like sought revenge after the werewolves attacked when
instead Dukalian was like, please let us let there be peace
between US and Dukalian. And Gerard was like, kidding.
No, I'm going to frame instead. I'm going to frame you for
murder. I'm.
Going to kill my own people and make it worse.
And then make it worse. So love this.

(54:17):
Love this for him. So at the loft, Peter is
finishing up his Derek and Page tragedy and it's like the bite
didn't take with Paige. Most of the time the bite takes
most of the time, most of the. Time.
So we find, we find and Peter finds Derek and Paige at the
base of the nematon. I always want to say nematode

(54:40):
well. You think that's what's
happening here? That's not what the tree is
called. No, I got Doug on the brain.
Do you remember Doug? I do what?
Was that song? With the beats.
Yeah. Yeah.
I'll think of it. Yeah, there's I need more
allowance and shut your gums outand.
Cuz he like bags and nematode. I'll think of it.
It's like Doug bags and nematode.

(55:01):
I'll think of it. So he's like Derek is like what
is happening to her? He doesn't, I think.
I think he's never seen this happen before.
So if he's seen a bite before, it's always gone correctly and
maybe that's why he was OK with it.
Maybe he. Didn't think anything would go
wrong, but he tries to take as much of Paige's pain away as he

(55:24):
can, like we've seen Scott do now.
Yeah. And then poor Paige is like, I
knew that you were a werewolf. She has seen weird shit in this
town that she couldn't explain, which makes her smarter than the
sheriff, correct? Or maybe it's because she's
young and her mind is still openthat she was like, right after

(55:45):
you told me your name. You can like, smell things and
you say weird shit. You're a werewolf.
And I love you anyway, and I love you.
Anyway, Which is terrible, because if he'd just left her
alone, she'd be alive. Yeah, if he had just left her,
if she'd just not listen to Peter.
If like so many things, and noneof them were Paige's fault, and

(56:07):
most of like none of them were Derek's.
No, like Derek was saw a good. Lady by somebody he was
manipulated by somebody he loved.
Yeah. Again.
Again, garbage. And now he's still stuck with
Uncle Peter in his adulthood. Yeah, even after killing him.
He tried so hard. He.
Tried so hard. He got rid of him once and he's

(56:28):
back and now he's in his loft all the time.
Just. Hanging out, sleeping in Isaac's
bedroom, sitting on this fancy velvet couch, being a jerk.
Eating his food so Paige knows she's dying and asks Derek to
end it so he. And he does does and he he stays

(56:52):
with her and tells her that he loves her and is just is not
doesn't let her die alone, you know, ends her suffering, takes
as much of his pain, as much of her pain as he can.
Like this is like this is the expression of love.
This is as much as he can do in this moment.
And I kids got a good heart. I love him a lot, even if he's a

(57:14):
cocky little basketball shit. He is and my no here was like
why does everything bad happen to him?
Yeah, and so and he flashed likeinto the loft is Styles crying.
He might be a little. Damp because my I have that Cora
is crying also. So like Cora is crying, Styles

(57:34):
is crying, Peter's dead. He's just dead inside, like.
Passing garbage and they'd bury her in the woods like, well,
what about her parents? Well, like they put her in the
woods where someone could find her.
Yeah. Just another in Beacon Hill's
long string of animal attacks like.
Fuck, I know. But it's but it's Peter who then

(57:55):
finally kind of gives us the crystal clear lore that Pete,
that wolves with blue eyes have killed an innocent person.
Yeah, taking an innocent life takes something from you, a bit
of your soul darkening in it. And so I really, really
appreciate like what Fannin has done with this because like

(58:15):
Peter is vicious. Peter kills with basically no
remorse and is and is done. Jackson has blue eyes because of
what he did while he was basically possessed by the
Nematon or not by the nematon, by by the Kenema, by or by Matt
and then Gerard. Like, so Jackson definitely
murdered a bunch of people, but like, it wasn't him.

(58:39):
But his eyes are still blue. And so when we talk about Derek
and his blue eyes, like, yeah, on the surface it's like, yeah,
well, he did. He he technically killed a
person. But there is so much lore that
we do that is done in the fandom, particularly around

(59:00):
Derek, that has to do with guiltand that if you feel like you
are responsible. Right.
Death of an innocent person. That it it.
It colors your eyes too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I just really appreciate thework that fandom has done on
this in its efforts to kind of take care of Paige as best as
you can with a girl who's due bythe narrative.

(59:22):
Yes, and doesn't have much screen time and.
Doesn't have much screen time. Like does Derek physically
murder her? Like yeah kinda.
Was it his fault? No, not really.
No. Like it's, it's, and it's just
about what guilt will do to a person.
And it's a really interesting thing that fandom has, has used
to kind of process, you know, ifyou're processing your own

(59:44):
guilt, what does it do to you? What, what are you feeling?
How does it affect you in the way that you feel seen by other
people? And it's just, it's really
fascinating and I love it. It is, and you know, I, I don't
know that Peter feels guilt for anything.
No, absolutely not. Absolutely.
Not so like why? Why are his eyes blue?
His. His are dead 'cause, you know,

(01:00:05):
cold blood and murder. Cold blood and murder.
Straight murder. Yep.
So we finally go back to finish up the Deukalian storyline and
we find Deukalian, like so many werewolves before and after him,
being patched up at the veterinary clinic.
We're Deaton. I'm sure there are actual
animals that he needs to take care of and there.
Are. But in the moment, the one he's

(01:00:26):
looking to heal is Deukalian. Yeah, so he announces that
Deukalian's eyes will physicallyheal, but that his sight is
gone. And Eukalian has a lot of bad,
bad feelings about this. And he's like, leave me alone.
And so Talia and Deaton leave him alone.
But then that little shit Marco doesn't leave.

(01:00:47):
And Eukalian knows that he's still there.
And whether he can, you know, see him or smell him or hear his
heartbeat is, you know, it couldbe any number of those things.
And he goes, I want to be alone.And Marco goes, you are alone.
And so we we then. Learn you're.
About to be alone. So he we learn through this
flashback that when Dukelian kind of uses his like Alpha E

(01:01:09):
Wolfie eyes that he can still see.
Yeah. And he had, like, physical
eyeballs in his head when he shifted.
Yeah, which is weird. Like, like as a human, he has no
eyeballs. When he shifts, he has eyeballs.
Well, no, they grew back 'cause he's still a werewolf.

(01:01:31):
So like they grew back, it's just that they don't work
anymore. Yeah, which, OK, Why?
Like is that just too much for werewolf regeneration 'cause I
feel like Derek is probably missing like a pancreas and in
appendix and his gallbladder does. 3 meters of his lower
intestine. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:01:52):
Does that all grow back? I don't.
I don't know, but it didn't in this particular case.
Maybe he was nerves. Maybe he was weakened by
whatever that like powdery juice, foam, smoke substance
was, I don't know. The optic nerve is just too
much. It's just too much.
But in any case, Duquelian completely wrecks and smash
murders Marco. Oh yeah, bye, bye.

(01:02:14):
He is shredded. Bye bye.
And that that's what he meant byhe's not always blind.
Even though Gerard definitely wasn't there for that particular
moment. Yeah, right.
Like. How do you know that?
How do you know that? But like, OK, I guess whatever.
Maybe he does it throughout the years and these just people
catch on. But you know, so Gerard is like,

(01:02:35):
I'm done now. I gave you all the information,
now fucking give me your magic medicine, Scott McCall.
Scott's like I won't believe you.
I hate your guts and you're the worst.
And then we get, and like the way that my little heart started
to flutter. You get the Scott McCall, he'll
turn, He starts, he turns just alittle bit into a villain in

(01:02:57):
this, and he deserves it. So good.
If you lied and it gets people hurt, I'll be back to take more
than your pain. Yes, good.
Good threaten. Threaten that old man.
Yeah, good. Fuck that guy.
Yes, because like we talk a lot about Scott's, like we're not
going to hurt anybody and you trust everybody.

(01:03:18):
And in this, like Scott has so much information.
We don't trust Gerard. We can't trust Gerard.
But I have no choice because I need to beat Ducalians that he
doesn't hurt anybody. So I'm going to take it.
I'm going to take it with a grain of salt.
And if it turns out that Gerard is lying to me like he so often

(01:03:39):
does, I'm going to come back andwreck him.
And like, I feel like that is asmuch as I can ask of Scott, like
that's you are doing the best with the information that you
have at the time that you got it.
He deserves, he deserves to threaten this old man for
everything he has done. He absolutely does, and like, I
think we're only keeping Gerard alive for stuff like this.

(01:04:00):
Yes, for sure. But we, we don't need this man,
no. Absolutely not.
He's we. We don't need him.
Bye bye. Goodbye.
I'm a medical miracle. I don't give a shit.
I don't care. Jackson Whittemore was also a
medical miracle. Yeah, and we loved him.
And we and we miss him every episode.
He was a piece of shit and we loved him.

(01:04:21):
You're a piece of shit and we want you to go away.
Yeah, Jackson became a werewolf,and that could have been
awesome. Yeah, you made him go away.
You. Yeah, you did this.
Your fault. Bring back all of the betas you
asshole. Right.
Why does Derek lose everybody? RIP terrible.
But we finally get to go back tothe loft, and Styles, in a very

(01:04:43):
close conversation with Cora, actually calls out the
unreliable narrator. Yes, yeah.
They he he's sad, but he does not believe Peter.
Mostly he is like, because he's he's smart.
It's like, I don't think we got the whole story because like,
why would you? It's it's Uncle Peter, and he
just wants to ask Derek about what happened.

(01:05:05):
Which is correct. That's correct.
I don't know why he thinks Derekwould ever tell them anything.
Yeah, I don't know. Like, Derek's never told you a
single thing about his life. So like, good luck.
Why would he start now? Why would he start now?
But I appreciate that Stiles is the one who's like, let's just
ask him. Yeah.
And then they, for no reason I can understand, for absolutely

(01:05:28):
no narrative reason that I can put together, they set up that
little scene between Cora and Styles.
Are you really going to ask Derek about the girl he fell in
love with and then killed? If I have to, yeah.
Why? Because that's my man.
Why have you said why did you put this?
I don't understand. Do you think that they thought

(01:05:49):
these moments were like Cora Styles heavy and not Styles
Derek heavy? But I think they were trying.
So if if you look at Teen Wolf as a whole, they try to put
styles with every available hailexcept for Derek.
I know, they really do. Like this is kind of the
starting setup for Cora and styles.

(01:06:09):
It doesn't soup or go anywhere. It goes like a little, it goes
like a little where, but not really anywhere.
Well, I mean, the beginning of this conversation is Cora being
like, what's this look on your face, the kind that makes me
want to punch you and Styles like, Oh my God, you are so
Derek's sister. Like a little banter.
Yeah. I mean, is supposed to be
reminiscent of the like I'm gonna punch you in the face,

(01:06:31):
kind of. Shit, I'm gonna rub your throat
out with my teeth kind of like stuff.
And yeah, so like, at the very beginning of the episode, Cora's
like, well, why are you here? Why are you even here?
What, Like, what do you want? And so Styles, it showed up at
Derek's house. And then he starts to talk
about, you know, Scott and like,the the sacrifices and Heather
and all these people. And I'm still going, like, yeah.

(01:06:54):
And you showed up at Derek's house because he's on your list
of things that you care about. Because he just had to kill one
of his only friends, his family.He's on.
He's on your list of things you care about.
He's not the only thing you careabout.
Of course not. But he's on your list.
Like, I Yeah. So they're, they try, I think,

(01:07:17):
to start setting up Cora and Styles here.
It doesn't really take, but you know, to use the room.
I am just whacked upon the face with with with styles Derek, but
that's because my because my goggles are on too tight.
My goggles are on real tight. Yeah, but the styles core
doesn't go anywhere. Not really.
Not really. I mean, like, fine, but it's not

(01:07:39):
the hail we're looking for. It's.
Not the hail we're looking for, but no.
Speaking of the hail we're looking for, we have to end the
episode on Derek. Yes, we have present day Derek.
Looking, we got to go to past, we got to go to past Derek.
Oh, sorry, yes, I forgot. I I in my brain, I had talked
about it and then I skipped. We have a final flashback of
Derek at the Nematon and his mother comes down and his he's

(01:08:03):
like, my eyes are different and they are bright blue and she's
like, they're different but still beautiful and.
Just like the rest of you. Just like the rest of you, sweet
boy. Yeah, and then adult Derek is?
Looking, by the way, ripped right open whatever this like

(01:08:26):
heartbroken vulnerable thing that's happening with his whole
face is wild. Yeah, Tyler Heckland does that
super well. Yeah, the I am bleeding on the
inside. Yes, he is bleeding on the
inside. He is back at that distillery,
staring at that same carved spiral circle spiral thing, the

(01:08:53):
sign of the vendetta that has been on the distillery wall.
I guess he's about to start someshit.
Why do you think he's back? Like a plot?
Plot device aside, why do you think that Derek is back at the
distillery? It feels like a location of
importance, like this is where this is where stuff happened.

(01:09:18):
Like this is where he and Paige were supposed to have like a
good moment and it got ruined. This is where the packs were
supposed to come to a truce in an agreement and it got ruined.
This is where, and I guess he doesn't know it, that that
Dekalian was supposed to meet with Gerard for truce and that

(01:09:41):
got ruined. It feels like you know how some
locations are just important to a storyline.
So I think one it's it's plot device important that he comes
back here. I think for him it's about Page
and maybe the pack, because I think it's got to be close to
home, right? If everyone keeps meeting here.

(01:10:02):
Yeah, I mean it, It looks like it's out in nowhere, but it has
to be close to home if Talia andand the Hales keep and and and
if like him as a teenager came here to make out.
Yeah, that's gotta be close to home.
I disagree with you. Does.
He not know why he came here. I, I, he came here because it's
a plot device. That's why he came here.

(01:10:24):
He came here because it's a plotdevice.
But I think the like character reason for it is like, because
we just set up the lore now, we're gonna ignore, we're gonna
ignore Erica in this moment. Sure.
Because Erica died before we gotthe lore.

(01:10:44):
So we got the lore today that losing your PAC number is like
losing a limb. And so this is kind of the first
PAC member that Derek has lost since kind of getting that lore
introduced. He was the one.
I guess he must have like absorbed Boyd's powers because
the alphas are like, you know, you got to kill one of your own
and it like absorbs into you. And I did wonder about that.

(01:11:07):
I think that he goes back here to stare at this thing because
he is finally understanding whatNS was going through.
Oh, after losing a pack member? Or after killing a Piper?
After. Ennis lost a pack member, and
the rage and the pain and the confusion that he felt

(01:11:29):
considering, you know, that Collie was involved in that.
Ennis is, you know, fucked up inall kinds of ways, but I think
that Derek is finally able to kind of empathize a little bit
with what Ennis was going through.
He may not have understood it atthe time.
He does now. And being back in that space and
seeing Ennis and seeing the swirl then reminds him of Paige,

(01:11:51):
OK. Yeah, I can see that.
And like that, that's how it kind of all ties together.
That's what that's where I'm going.
But no, they're, there's a plot device.
They're 100% there's a plot device to establish this as a
location. But yeah, I just, I think that
Derek and his like, sad emotional state is like, oh, I
get it now. I can feel that I can be.

(01:12:13):
That so different you and I. I'm not here.
Yeah. I mean, sometimes you're like,
yeah, but I don't want you to feel the feels of an evil
person. No, and it's just the worst.
But like, you know, we can stillhave empathy with people.
That's still fine. Yes, that's fine.
Yeah, empathy. Yeah, so, like, I still don't
love this episode, frankly. It's really important.

(01:12:37):
I think all the things, all the flashbacks are super good and
important and I just love seeingstyles go to Derek's loft
because reasons. But like trying to keep track of
who's telling the truth and who is lying and for what purpose
drives me. Just drives me crazy.
Yeah, and I think sometimes the motivations are muddled.
Like, yeah, yeah, I mean, Gerardstarting shit to start shit is

(01:12:59):
fine, but it's like, what does Ennis doing?
Yeah. Where does Kali fit into this?
I don't think she does. She's just there to she's.
Just there to. Be another pack member, Marco.
Was he attacking Decalion just to get rid of a weak pack
member? I guess, yeah.
Yeah, there's a lot of things that they set up in this episode

(01:13:21):
that just immediately go away inthis episode.
But they also do establish a lotof they kind of back, they kind
of backfill. They do of.
Of lore. And you know what?
At least they found it. They found the holes and tried
to patch them. I appreciate that.
Yeah, it's you know it and showslike this.
Episode give this page which youknow shows.

(01:13:42):
Like this, the web gets so big that you're like trying to hold
all the pieces together, right and keep them consistent.
You're like, OK, I guess I'll give you this piece in in
return. Yeah, because like so in one of
the IT it's not the wiki, but it's one of the other.
It's like teen Wolf Pack dot fanit.
It has a a little piece about the this episode talking trying

(01:14:06):
to broach the the topic of whether or not werewolves age
slower and if that's the conversation with Peter when
Styles is like, how old are you right?
And is Peter trying to imply that werewolves are aged?
Werewolves age slower than humans, But that wouldn't.
I mean maybe, but that doesn't jive with how they look.
No, he it would mean that they age faster, yeah.

(01:14:29):
And that's just a casting problem.
Yeah, and a continuity problem with trying to set up Derek's
age in the pilot and then not sticking to it.
Right. Now, if you want to set up that
their werewolves age slower, that's cool, great.
But you have to do it by actually saying something and
not just Peter offhandedly beinglike whatever it was that he

(01:14:51):
said. Yeah, because the cast, because
the casting error would mean that they age faster.
But you know, Eric, you're 22 and you look 35.
Yeah, I mean he has lived 9 lives since.
Seriously, they all have. Peter's on at least his third
life. Definitely, and he should only
have one. It's like a cat.

(01:15:12):
He's a weird cat. No, no, no.
That's next season. Good times, but I I hope all of
you out there enjoy this episode.
I am grateful for it because of what it gives to Fanon.
Yeah, I mean, I love back story,right?
Like, yeah, I love back story. You get the nematon, which
becomes much more important later.

(01:15:32):
So it's nice to see it. It is kind of funny.
I mean, no, it's because Beacon Hills is a hell mouse.
You're like, obviously it's here.
It's just funny that they're like, it's what, their root
cellar? It's the nematon.
Like, where is this? It's hard to.
Like, there's a staircase down to it.
So it's like, where is this in your basement?
Where is this? Yeah.
It's just sometimes it's funny. Like every important piece of

(01:15:53):
lore is literally in their backyard.
Every one of them. Everyone.
Yep. And I think this is the first
time we see a human rejecting the bite because it's the next.
The next one is Jackson. Well, I mean Jackson.
Lydia. No, Lydia doesn't reject the
bite like this. She's just kind of immune to the
bite. It's.
Just different. Yeah, because Paige rejects it.

(01:16:13):
Jackson Jackson rejects the bite, but not in the same way
that Paige did. Jackson's rejecting the bite
like Gerard's rejecting the bite.
But this will be the first time,at least Derek's ever seen it.
Or maybe maybe Peter too. One of the things that again, I
would love to have known what they wanted to do it on purpose,
but the lighting was too blue and I couldn't see is was

(01:16:35):
Paige's blood black or was it? Yeah, yeah.
Couldn't tell. Yeah, because in because in
season 2 when Jackson kind of rejects the bite, he is all
black. All the all the all the ink,
blood, goo stuff that comes out of his nose.
Yep, and there's a lot of it. It's a lot of it.
And that's all happening with Gerard too.
Is that about his body detectingthe bite?

(01:16:56):
And it's coming out like black. So I want to know like did pages
all the blood that was like on her, on her, on Derek, was that
black like the others who we've seen or not?
Yeah, answer the question. Answer the question, Jeff.
Answer the question, Jeff. I wonder if there should be
other eye colors for werewolves,like neon green if you like, I

(01:17:19):
don't know. And become a master gardener.
You're purple. You smell like flowers.
Yeah, like really get into it. Yeah, that would be fun.
Again, Fannin has a bunch more eye colors and that's always fun
to get into, but I really appreciate that they at least,
like committed to these. Yeah, I guess again my question,

(01:17:41):
Jeff, Jeffrey. Jeffrey.
Jeffrey middle name is when theygave Derek blue eyes in season 1
because it's like episode 3 episode 4 where he has very
clear blue eyes. Did they know what it meant
then, or were they just like it?Looks better this way?
We got to ask him, when did you decide?

(01:18:02):
I'm sure I got to, you know, probably find some deep dive
interviews to see if they ever said.
Yeah, maybe. Do a little looking up.
But sometimes you. Shouldn't.
Yeah, I was going to say, like, I think you shouldn't always
have to do the deep dive interview lore look up to
understand the show. Right.
And I know there are a lot of fans who are like, and not just

(01:18:25):
of the show, but of all shows tobe like, well, you know, if you
really looked into it, you wouldunderstand what's going on.
Like, yeah, but you shouldn't have to.
That should be like an added bonus to go read every
interview, to watch every behindthe scenes, to do all this extra
work. You should.
You should get everything that you need to get from the text.
Yeah, it should be in the text. Anything else is is not Canon.

(01:18:48):
It's like bonus content, yeah. It's just not Canon.
So put it in the show. It in our hearts though.
It's Canon in our hearts, Yeah. So yeah, I don't know.
It's not my favorite episode, but I like the back story.
It's just. I don't know, Yeah.
Yeah, well, you know what? I missed Lydia a lot this week,
but it's because she was doing other stuff.
She was. She was doing other stuff, which

(01:19:10):
we'll see next episode. Girls got stuff to do.
Next episode 3-9, The Girl who knew too much.
Let's go. Have you looked on some of the
wicked? The the screenshot used for that
episode is always her just screaming.
Screaming. Like damn.
Well, this is this is the screamy episode, so we finally

(01:19:33):
get to figure out what's going on with Lydia.
Lydia. It is time.
It is time. So we have next week we'll have
a little bit of like a lot of bit of Lydia, a little bit of
Scott and Lydia. Hello, That's my favorite.
And just all kinds of other goodstuff, because the plot must
continue. Yes, can't get bogged down in

(01:19:55):
back story. We must move forward.
We must move forward into the plot with these two new
locations. Fun.
All right. Thank you for listening.
Yes, you can find us on the Internet.
You know how to do that. Phantom of the Rocks, Patreon,
Phantom of the Rocks, and we will catch you next time you've

(01:20:16):
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(01:20:36):
diving into fandom, and more. So until next time, keep your
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