June 25, 2025 • 44 mins
What does it mean to be a Broadway fan in today's digital world? In this illuminating conversation with top industry leaders from Playbill, Broadway News, and BroadwayWorld, we dive deep into the evolving landscape of theater fandom and how Broadway is adapting to connect with audiences in new ways.
The misconception that Broadway is niche takes center stage as our guests passionately dismantle this outdated notion. "It is the greatest myth of all time that Broadway is niche," asserts Ruthie Fierberg of Broadway News, pointing to the ubiquity of musical theater references across mainstream media as evidence of theater's widespread appeal. This perspective frames a fascinating discussion about how Broadway can leverage its broader-than-acknowledged fanbase.
From the surge in Tony Awards viewership (despite platform challenges) to the transformation of in-theater experiences, our guests explore how Broadway is meeting fans where they are. We discover how pre-show playlists, immersive environments, and strategic photo opportunities are transforming ordinary theatergoers into passionate advocates. Yet the panel emphasizes that while these enhancements matter, the show itself remains the core value.
Looking ahead, our guests share exclusive insights on upcoming productions generating significant pre-opening buzz, including Lost Boys, Ragtime, Chess, and the return of Mamma Mia! Their enthusiasm suggests a bright future for Broadway fandom as the industry continues to balance theatrical tradition with digital innovation.
Whether you're a Broadway superfan or simply curious about how entertainment fandom is evolving in the digital age, this conversation offers invaluable insights into the passionate community that keeps the lights of Broadway shining bright. Subscribe to hear more fascinating discussions about modern fandom across entertainment and sports!
Recorded Tuesday, June 24th, 2025
Hosts: Jeremy Kraus, Managing Partner, Situation & Damian Bazadona, CEO & Founder, Situation
Guests: Alex Birsh, Vice President and COO, Playbill
Ruthie Fierberg, Executive Editor, Broadway News
Robert Diamond, Founder and CEO, BroadwayWorld
Producer: Peter Yagecic, Innovation Advisor, Situation
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Peter Yagecic (00:05):
You're listening to Fandom Unpacked the podcast,
an audio version of our regularlive stream series where we
unpack modern fandom with someof the brightest minds in sports
and entertainment.
I'm producer Peter Jicic andjoining me for today's Q&A is
Situation CEO and founder DamianBasadana and managing partner
Jeremy Krause.
And managing partner JeremyKrause.
Our guests today from the worldof Broadway journalism are Alex
(00:27):
Bursch, vice president and COOat Playbill, ruthie Feuerberg,
executive editor of BroadwayNews, and Robert Diamond,
founder and CEO of BroadwayWorld.
Here's Damian to get us startedon this Q&A about fandom on
Broadway.
Damian Bazadona (00:40):
Thank you, peter.
Thanks for everyone for coming.
Thank you to our awesome panel.
I'm actually operating over aUK office this week.
I know you're jealous of theweather here, which is about 75
here right now, and I've heardit's 98 where you're sitting.
So sorry, but, peter, this isour first time doing one
dedicated to Broadway on theFandom Unpacked series.
(01:01):
You've had Broadway con andsome others, but this one's
dedicated to Broadway, which,right, it's true, yeah, um and
so it's.
It's about time.
It's a.
The fandom around Broadway isremarkable.
On my plane right here, I had aBroadway themed uh t-shirt, on
to which someone stopped me andgave me a half hour lecture of
all, anywhere, anywhere you are.
So I'm going to just pass it toJeremy.
(01:24):
I think Jeremy has a whole loadof questions to run through,
but I just want to say these arethe best of the best, and not
only is our panel a group ofkind people, but I'll tell you
they're very open-minded.
So when we bring new ideas oranything that's happening, the
market that's changing.
Jeremy Kraus (01:38):
We have no doubt if we email them saying we have
an idea.
They're always fantastic atkind of saying how can we help
and try new things, which Ideeply admire.
(02:00):
So thank you.
And you know the timing of thisis intentional.
We're a couple weeks coming offof an amazing Broadway season
with incredible product on stage, a variety of product that fans
seem to have loved, and we'recoming off the Tony Awards a
couple of weeks ago.
I'm going to start off withRuthie and talk to her a little
(02:23):
bit about the Tonys, and so youknow it is the moment, if you're
a Broadway fan, that everybodygathers around and you know, in
the old days, gathered aroundthe TV, you watched it live.
Things have changed.
We all know that.
The great news is that theratings are up on live viewing
38%, which is great year on year.
(02:44):
Live viewing 38%, which isgreat year on year.
But these days we're seeing,just with all TV, a different
behavior and people are not onlytuning in and it's great to see
that the ratings were up, butwe now know that people are
watching those clips from theTonys online on social, on
YouTube, after the event, in fargreater numbers than watching
(03:04):
it live, and just wanted to kindof touch on that and the Tonys
in general, and what power theystill have over this fandom of
Broadway, both people who haveloved Broadway for years and are
hardcore fans, but also newfans who are, you know, more
casual theater goers who mightbe exposed to the Tonys and to
Broadway who might be exposed tothe Tonys and to Broadway.
Ruthie Fierberg (03:27):
Yeah, I mean, thank you for the question and
for having all of us.
The Tonys are our big knight interms of like being able to
reach the mainstream right,because we are so localized.
We're not like the movieindustry where there is a cinema
all over the place.
We take a little while todisseminate our stories through
tours and regionals andcommunity theater productions.
(03:49):
So the Tonys are really likeour night to reach everybody and
be a nationwide and nowactually a global community.
I think the 38% rise shows thatwe did a lot of things right.
I think that having CynthiaErivo as the host and tapping
into the fandom around theWicked movie and around her just
(04:13):
global fame, but also herpersona, and leaning into what
she does well during thebroadcast kept people watching
and engaged.
I think having Hamiltoncelebrate their 10th anniversary
was very smart.
So I think we did some goodthings there.
I think that with live viewing,I think with anything, there's
(04:35):
room for improvement and I thinkwith live viewing you know it's
hard to find the Tonys nowadays.
You know talking about excuseme, when we were growing up all
sitting around and watching theTV, there was only cable to
watch.
Then, right, like streamingwasn't a thing.
When I was a kid, you eitherhad cable or you didn't, and CBS
(04:55):
is basic cable.
So, like, you had television oryou didn't.
Now, yes, we're still on CBS,but so many people have cut
cable.
And then we do have the factthat this year, um, it wasn't
just a paramount plussubscription is a, it was a
paramount plus with showtimesubscription.
So I think actually the factthat we were up 38 when it was a
(05:16):
essentially a premium cable umevent is is hugely, um,
reassuring about the fandom ofBroadway.
But I also think it's complex oflike, where do you find the
first part?
Oh, it's over here on Pluto.
Oh, then you find the next parton Paramount Plus Showtime.
Well, I have Paramount Plus soI can only watch the day after,
(05:39):
and it's why we on Broadway Newsand I'm sure the other outlets
have a how to Watch the Tonysarticle that is very, very high
in clickage.
So, yeah, and in terms ofYouTube clips, I think more is
more.
Watching at any time is goodfor us.
But I think that one thing isthat if you're looking for clips
(06:04):
, you're probably.
You know, it's the differencebetween a la carte and the
chef's menu, and that you'll belooking for a certain show
rather than seeing the fulloffering of Broadway.
And I think if we branded theTonys as Broadway's biggest
concert because that'sessentially what it is, it was
so many performance numbers wewould get even higher numbers.
(06:27):
Because, you know, I used toalways watch the Oscars.
I don't always watch themanymore because I don't see any
of these movies.
I'm at the theater four to fivenights a week.
I don't know what any of thesecategories are and it's not full
of performances.
So if we say, like you know,the Tony Awards are Broadway's
biggest concert and then we'rehanding out, you know, eight
(06:51):
awards, sure, right, then Idon't have to have seen anything
.
So I think there's a lot tothink about and luckily, we are
going to hopefully grow from aplace of growth in years to come
.
Jeremy Kraus (07:05):
Absolutely, thank you.
That all makes sense and I lovethe idea of Broadway's, you
know, biggest concert.
That is indeed what the Tonysare.
It's what we do best.
Ruthie Fierberg (07:14):
Yeah, I mean, there's a reason why people tune
in to like the first hour ofthe Thanksgiving Day Parade in
bonkers numbers, right, theyknow it's all performances.
So if we use that kind oflanguage, I think you'll see
real in your career for many,many years.
Jeremy Kraus (07:29):
And where are we these days in terms of the
Broadway fan?
Are you know what's theprevailing mood amongst them?
(07:49):
Is there a lot of excitement?
Are a lot of them disgruntledabout something?
I'm sure there's a mix ofeverything.
We know that Broadway fans areabout the most passionate that
I've seen across any type ofentertainment.
But tell us kind of what we'reseeing these days, what they're
looking for.
Give us kind of a pulse checkon them.
Robert Diamond (08:09):
Sure, I think you know everybody's disgruntled
about something these days.
I have a long list that I keepon my phone if anybody wants to
hear about it afterwards.
But I think you know theoverall Broadway fan mood is
exciting.
You know we think that anybodythat comes to Broadway World
either is a theater fan or couldbe or should be.
So we were happy to see that onTony night our traffic was way
(08:31):
up and probably even moreimportantly for the industry,
that has continued.
So we're data geeks here.
I'm a heavy data person.
We get about I don't know150,000 visitors a day and we
break that up by the 15% thatare the most hardcore fans that
are living on our message board,sort of the 35% that are the
more avid regular theater goers,and then the 50% of more casual
(08:55):
fans that are seeing shows oncea month, once every few months,
etc.
And those numbers were all up onTony night and those numbers
all continue to be up post-Tonys.
And that's looking at botheverything that was on the Tonys
, everything that's stillrunning as well as showing high
interest in next season.
And when we break the data downfurther, they're just as
(09:19):
excited about some of the newplays coming in, some of the big
revivals coming in, about someof the new plays coming in, some
of the big revivals coming in.
It's a really good continuedinterest that we're seeing more
than last year and more than theyear before.
So I agree with what Ruthiesaid, that it's wonderful that
they're both watching it liveand then engaging with clips and
stuff afterwards.
But it's nice to see thecontinued life to this time of
(09:42):
year and to the Tony season,that it's helped to lift up the
theater industry and that thathigh interest and excitement
continues.
Jeremy Kraus (09:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think now is the moment wherewe're seeing so many new people
come into Broadway A lot of itdriven by, as everybody has
talked about, the big stars, thebig starry season that we had.
But we're bringing in so manynew people and now it's about
how do we retain them?
And great to hear, robert, thatyou know the idea that the
(10:11):
Tonys did bring in a lot of newpeople and that you are seeing
that increase, stay there andnot just drop off immediately,
so that's a really good sign,alex, I wanted to talk about
kind of how Broadway fans havechanged over the years and we'll
look at it through the lens ofa Broadway fan.
But this really is to anybodyconsuming live entertainment,
(10:33):
what they want to consume, andyou know how they engage with
shows, especially as they're.
You know, maybe if they've everalready bought a ticket, like
with that moment when you'retrying to get them excited when
they're coming to a show I knowyou guys launched, you know
(10:53):
Playbill's pre-show and you knowand even when they're in the
theater and how marketers andhow we can engage with people
when they are in your space sothat it's not just necessarily
the show that they're seeing fortwo hours.
It's the whole experience, socan you talk a little bit about
how that's evolved?
Alex Birsh (11:10):
Well, I think, really, what you see is Broadway
wanting to increase thecustomer experience just from a,
let's say, a caretakingstandpoint.
Right, standpoint right.
So I think that is the correctdirection, especially with
ticket prices overall, you know,steadily, continually going up,
(11:30):
even though the biggest pressthat happens with the broadway
ticket cost is always the toptickets always number the, the
hundreds and hundreds andhundreds of dollars.
That that is the, that's thespicier headline, of course,
when in reality there are manytickets to purchase underneath a
hundred dollars each and, and,I think, the overall.
What what is heartening to seeis that more shows are starting
(11:56):
to kind of begin the experiencewith that purchase ticket or
even as you walk into thetheater, when you feel a
different vibe has begun, um,and we can even look at current
shows that are have been onbroadway for 10 years.
We'll call, we'll say hamiltonis one of them.
You walk in, you sit down andyou see this set, that is one
(12:21):
that you probably recognize fromphotos or anything like that.
Um, and then you look at a fewblocks up and cabaret is like
you are.
You are walking into anightclub, um, or even just very
close by, john proctor is thevillain.
You walk in and with a veryspecifically curated and
(12:43):
incredible playlist before youas you sit down and and it just
the vibe shift is different andyou can tell, even with those
subtle things like, oh OK, weare really starting the
experience earlier, and I thinkthat is a really important thing
and that is actually at thebasis of why we created with.
Why we created the Playbillpre-show is to get people
(13:07):
feeling taken care of quicklyafter they had purchased a
ticket.
But from where a Broadway fanhas kind of shifted a little bit
, or what people's expectationsare and all that I mean, often
it comes down to wow, I paid Xamount of money for this.
This is going to be an excitingtime.
This whole thing is anexperience.
(13:27):
You don't just happen into aBroadway theater.
Usually it is a veryspecifically targeted thing that
you have done for yourselfbecause you want something
special, and so in the end, Ithink it's what can each show do
to make the audience memberfeel special?
You know, what can each show doto make the audience member feel
special, um, coming in and andfeeling like they're about to
(13:49):
experience something that theyreally haven't before and is
worth what they paid, and and soand and we, as Playbill are,
are, uh, a really strong brandthat's involved in all of that
process and we are so lucky tobe um and it's just really it's
fun to see shows starting to toreally kind of amp this up.
(14:09):
Uh, and and for our pre-showpurposes, it's shown to be
really quite highly engaged withum, to the point of like 70
plus percent open rates of likeemails and things, which is
insane.
But it's because people want tobe talked to and they want, and
especially from like a brandlike us, that they trust as part
(14:30):
of the process.
So it's it's exciting to see,and we're uh, and we're excited
to keep exploring ways toenhance it.
Ruthie Fierberg (14:37):
Can I add something about ticket price
that?
I know that we're not talkingabout ticket price is like the
theme of this conversation, butI think it's really relevant to
fans because, as theconversation continues about
fans and word of mouth likebeing our biggest ambassadors, I
think that something we can dois leverage fans into talking
(14:57):
about actually how affordabletheater Broadway is for what it
is that.
First of all, we did numbercrunching for the end of the
season.
We're big fans of Data 2.
We share that in common withBroadway World, but from 20
years ago, adjusted forinflation, adjusted for
(15:18):
inflation, the average ticketprice is only $15 more across
Broadway.
That includes Othello, glennGary, good Night, good Luck,
dorian Gray.
That includes it, and just rawnumbers.
The average ticket price acrossBroadway shows at the end of
the season was $129 a ticket.
(15:40):
So I think we really need to bepushing the narrative with our
fans that, like you can do this,is it something special?
Yes, it's not a $20 movieticket.
It is something live andhappening in front of your face
and, like I say all the time,there are at least 100 people
(16:01):
who have touched the thing orwho are working at that moment
on the thing that you arewatching.
Is it not worth it to pay themeach $1?
Is it not worth it to pay themeach $1?
I don't think we talk about thevalue of theater enough,
because people are paying 80bucks for a drink and appetizer
(16:21):
and dinner at like a mid-rangerestaurant.
So I think for the top tiertheater in the world, we can do
that, and caretaking, you know,and making it a full experience
is definitely part of that.
But I think we can use our fansto share that message as well.
Jeremy Kraus (16:39):
Absolutely.
I mean, I'll say for myself,just went with my family of four
to how to Train your Dragonright, it was IMAX, but you know
we had fun, but we spent $100.
We hadn't even gotten toconcessions, and all of that
just for tickets.
These days even more than that.
Actually, it was like almost$30 per ticket now and so, yeah,
it is the value you get.
(17:00):
But you know, we're in a momentnow where there's a lot of
chatter about how some reallygreat shows are unfortunately
not able to last on Broadway andyou know, maybe they don't have
a star or IP, but you know howthis is piggybacking.
On the last question, we werejust talking about how fans have
changed, how fans are trying to, or we're trying to, give them
(17:24):
an experience that is worthexperiencing and we're trying to
give them the opportunity toshare that Right.
So is there, you know, is theremore that any of you feel like
Broadway can or should be doingwith that in-venue experience
that maybe is being done outside?
Obviously, we all know put awayyour phones when the shows
start, but can we talk a littlebit about any ideas you might
have of how you can provide fanswith a little more than maybe
(17:48):
they're currently getting andAlex, you started to touch on
this the playlist, but any otherthoughts you all have in this
realm.
Robert Diamond (17:56):
Sure, yeah, I mean, I think photo booths and
theaters have done very well.
We saw that with everythingfrom a stack of mattresses, a
(18:17):
once upon a mattress and Gatsby,there's a to share it.
That you know you're treatingyour ambassadors as brand
ambassadors, that you're givingthem this opportunity to capture
additional content, to telltheir friends that were there
that they're at the show.
So those that are adding on tothat with QR codes, with ways of
(18:37):
sending out show previews, andaudio clips and video clips,
stuff that really gives a windowinto this special experience,
that's, you know, worth all $129is, I think, key to word of
mouth and key to building thatconversation.
Ruthie Fierberg (18:54):
Yeah, I would say, for the experience part, I
think the show I want toadvocate for the show being
enough, that I am all, please.
I love to moderate a post-showtalk back or have fun at the
photo booth with my friend, butI want to say, for the
experience, the show is enoughand the extra is extra.
(19:18):
And the extra is extra in termsof selling the show and word of
mouth.
I think that convenience is ourbest ally and if you have a
photo booth set up, like Robsaid, like, especially if it's
integrated into the theme of theshow, I think the Merrily we
Roll Along photo booth at thefront of the Hudson Theater is
one of the most successfulbecause you felt like you were a
(19:41):
part of the ad campaign.
Um, I, I also think that, like,maybe people are always taking
photos under the marquees.
Maybe there's a way to put, um,you know, a photo kiosk that
has the exact right angle sothat we don't have to stop
people um, along the way on thestreet to do to do that.
But the more pictures, theeasier it is to take pictures,
(20:05):
the more likely they are to takethem and to post them if they
don't have to, like, getcreative on their own.
Alex Birsh (20:12):
And we know from like a selling standpoint, right
.
We know that and let's say,we're focused on musicals.
People want to showcase areally fun something that
they've just been to, especiallyat the end of a show, when
everybody's emotions are reallyhigh and they're excited and and
everybody wants to, everybodyfeels like they're walking on
(20:33):
air.
That is a great moment and Iand I know, and that you know, a
few Broadway shows in the pastI've literally said like before,
before the show starts, we, youcan take your phone out at the
very end and we'll tell you whenyou can do it.
And like, and, and that helpsin a number of different ways.
But really like, and I rememberthis example of like Waitress,
(20:56):
when Sara Bareilles was in it,jason Mraz was in it, and they
said at the very end like, allright, folks, take your phones
out, we're going to give you alittle special treat.
Now that obviously I don't knowhow many times that can happen,
but they sang by the idea andthey were like film this and it
went crazy on social media andit was a really great kind of
window into the experience,while also still honoring the
(21:19):
fact that people who do want togo to a Broadway show.
And to Ruthie's point, they wantto disconnect and just like,
see what the art is, see whatthe thing is that they just paid
for, and they don't wantsomeone next to them with, like,
their phone lighting up and allthat stuff and their phone
buzzing.
No, nobody wants that.
They want to actually watch thething, but then at the very end
they want to brag about it.
And then to Robert's pointpoint as well how do we give
(21:48):
them the tools in order to bragabout it?
And that should be thought ofevery single day on, like, how
do we do that?
Often with musicals, it's music, and so how can, how can that
be um communicated in a reallyefficient way?
Peter Yagecic (21:55):
um, as well as just the overall experience
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(22:16):
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Now back to our Q&A.
Jeremy Kraus (22:28):
Robert, these days we are seeing a real big
explosion of Broadwayconversation happening on Reddit
.
It's become very popular aplace where people are really
having heated, passionateconversations about anything,
but also Broadway has a realnice niche there, tell me.
I mean, broadway World is theOG.
(22:49):
You guys are the ones that areknown as the Broadway message
board.
There's always a lot ofconversation about what's
happening on those boards and weknow that not always are the
nicest things being said, butthe old adage is that there's no
such thing as bad press.
What are your thoughts on?
You know the idea of?
Is all conversation that'shappening, obviously respectful
(23:12):
conversation, but it's allconversation, whether it's
critical, whether it's, you know, disgruntled.
Is conversation about Broadwaygood in general, on social, on
chat boards, on Reddit?
Is that a good thing for thisindustry and for fans to have
that place to kind of argue ordebate?
Robert Diamond (23:30):
Absolutely.
I mean the more places to talkabout Broadway, the better, and
the more people talking aboutBroadway, the better, and the
more places that people aretalking about Broadway, the more
likely they are to buy aBroadway ticket.
To come to a website that hasBroadway in its name or it's you
know, an iconic brand likePlaybill, etc.
And that's the whole reasonthat I started the website was
(23:51):
to give people more ways toengage.
I'd say, going back to the datalike the amount of people that
read Broadway World's messageboard versus post on a message
board and the same thing is truewith Reddit and social media is
so much higher.
So it's important to alwayskeep in mind that it's you know
(24:11):
X number of people sayingsomething, but you know a high
multiple of X that are actuallyreading it and engaging with it.
And what we see all the timebecause we look at this data, is
whether it's good, bad orindifferent.
It's making people click tolook at more information about
the show on the website.
Let me see what they're talkingabout, let me see why they say
it's wonderful or why they sayit's terrible.
So it leads to moreinvestigation in that department
(24:34):
and it's really about how doyou leverage that to have the
conversations that you want tohave with these fans and with
these audiences.
So we built a number of toolsthat actually look at Reddit,
look at social media, look atour own boards, find
commonalities of what people aresaying and then break it down
further into again, like theseare the avids, these are the
(24:56):
casuals, these are the hardcorefans.
And really it's about if youcan look at that data, look and
see what people are saying.
That's driving interest andawareness and then figuring out
the next step of how do we comeup with content or a social
media strategy that plays off ofthat to say, okay, this is why
they're coming.
(25:16):
Now, what can we show them?
To get them to buy a ticket, toget them to tell their friends
about it, to adjust theiropinion by correcting a
misconception or putting in somebehind-the-scenes information,
to remind people that these arereal artists working on
something.
Jeremy Kraus (25:41):
They're trying to do, this even if you think
they're doing that and this, youknow it bridges the gap a bit.
And the thing that's so uniqueabout Broadway fans is the fact
that you know if a show's onBroadway, especially before it
starts to tour and some showsdon't tour the idea that you
know a vast majority of peopletalking about a show following a
show.
We see this in our research allthe time.
They are not able to see theshow, they're not going to see
the show, it's in New York, butyet they're still huge fans of
(26:03):
the show.
They still advocate andrecommend the show to people who
come to New York.
And you know, if you're a fanof movies or of music or of TV,
anybody, anywhere you are, canconsume that and you can form
your own opinion.
You know Broadway is so uniquein that so many people talking
about it will never see it andhave never seen it, but yet they
(26:24):
are still so passionate aboutit.
With that, I'm going to seePeter, if you want to open it up
to some fan questions.
Peter Yagecic (26:32):
Yeah, we have so many great questions coming in
and I'm going to do my best tokind of merge them together on
the fly because I want to makesure we get to as many of these
as we can.
So this first question I love.
I'd love to pitch it to you,alex first, and it's come up on
some of our other conversationson this series.
But it says the Playbillpre-show, in welcoming people to
(26:53):
the theater, seems to be animportant mechanism for guests
of each show, where that'savailable.
Are guests the same thing asfans?
If not, does Playbill help moveguests into the direction of
fandom?
And I'd love to merge that withthe conversation we were having
about new audiences as well.
Do we need to move those neweraudiences to shows who maybe
(27:15):
they've never come to a showbefore, in the direction of
fandom to make sure that theycome back?
And Alex said we'd love to hearyou start with that, but then
anyone who wants to get a handon that ball, please, sure.
Alex Birsh (27:27):
So your question about, like, what is the
difference between a guest and afan?
That's interesting, I think.
That, or whoever's questionthat was, I think I mean the
moment that a guest becomes afan, I mean honestly, it happens
, as we were talking aboutbefore, like in the seat, as
(27:47):
it's starting, and the hope isthat you'd start turning them
into a fan earlier, throughoutthat experiential process.
That's what we talked aboutbefore, from a moving people
toward kind of being acheerleader even of it, of a
show.
I think that's such afascinating.
It's a fascinating part of itbecause overall and this even
(28:09):
goes toward the Tonys Broadwayitself is aspirational.
Like every, almost every aspectof Broadway is aspirational.
It is whether that's workingwithin it, whether and and
seeing it is so aspirational,whether that's working within it
and seeing it is soaspirational to a vast majority
of this country, and it's thereason why the Tonys are such an
important moment, because youget to see this aspiration in
(28:34):
its brightest form.
But even, as you're sayingabout how people can just be and
I think, jeremy, you mentionedlike people could just be fans
who just want to be like toevangelize it for, for their
friends and family and all thatit's.
It's like them saying I want toshare my aspiration with you.
(28:55):
Go in my stead, please.
I desperately want to see thisshow.
I can't, you live inPennsylvania, so-and-so you can
do it.
And so I think ultimately, likewe talked about, it's the tools
in which we share what theseshows are not just about, but
why they resonate with people.
(29:15):
And there is a way, and for solong we have we, as in the kind
of global, we within theBroadway sphere gate kept what
was on the stage.
It's like, if you're going togo, you're going to see it.
We're not going to allow you tosee it beforehand.
We're just going to show thesetwo cat eyes and that's all
(29:36):
we're showing you, and that's it.
And then you're going to be socurious on what that is and
you're going to go and look inthe 80s.
Sure, what else are peopledoing?
I guess I don't know, but, but,like now, it's really about how
can we start to make you fallin love and and how can we make
(29:57):
sure that we can show you thatthis is in fact a show for you
and, ultimately, the overallmessage, and that's what I think
the tony's did a very good jobwith this year because of all
the performances and everythinglike that.
What it needs to do an evengreater job of is saying that,
look, whatever you thinkbroadway is, it's not all that,
because you have a show for youout there, you just don't know
(30:19):
about it yet.
And that's ultimately wherethese people who are really
trying to get to Broadway butthey can't, people who are fans
but want to be guests of a showand then doing the exact
opposite.
It's about how do we increasethe army of each show, how do we
(30:40):
get these people to um, toreally showcase why a show is
special and it can be for you,and and there are a lot of ways
to do that, but most often it'sabout showcasing what the vibe
of the show is, what it lookslike on stage, what it sounds
like and what it's like to goand actually explore it, and and
there are tons of things outthere that do this for, like you
(31:03):
, this for hotels and reallygreat restaurants and all these
things that also have higherpoints of entry, but it's like
look at this whole thing thatyou get to experience, and
that's, I think, at the heart ofwhat Broadway needs to do
better, and it's something thatwe at Playbill love trying to
find ways to enhance thatbecause we're so deeply involved
(31:24):
in it.
But that, ultimately, I think,is what Broadway needs to do and
to tap into to make it moresuccessful.
Ruthie Fierberg (31:31):
I just wanted to briefly add that I think
there is a difference betweenguests and fans and I think you
need both.
I do not think that every guestneeds to become a fan.
I think like I'm going tooffend Alex here right now and
say I am not a fan of baseball.
You offended me.
(31:52):
I feel like I can go to abaseball game.
I think it's the feeling ofbeing able to go, knowing that I
could have a good time, knowingwhat to expect, like Alex said,
with the pre-show and thecaretaking.
So I'm not a fan.
Casual fan is a once a monthperson, because I would say a
(32:17):
casual fan is maybe a once aonce a year person.
So that's an amazing engagementfor the casual fan of Broadway
world.
Um, and I totally understandwhat you know, the Broadway
world casual fan but like weneed to say that it's okay if
you only want to come once ayear.
It's not only for the peoplewho come, who come every single
(32:39):
week and and and it kind of uhties into um.
You know the idea of there areso many shows that um, that open
at once and that don'tnecessarily get the momentum.
Like I saw, there was a questionin the Q&A about Dead Outlaw or
like any of these shows thathave announced closing that
(33:01):
people really love, there's agreat fandom for, like the show
score is off the charts, kind ofthing, and I think we have to
start thinking about well, howoften do non-industry people
really go to the theater?
Right, like if someone's goingonce a month.
If five shows open in a monthor one show opens in a month,
(33:25):
they're still going once a month.
So what's your?
You know what's happening there, but I do think that you take
care of guests and fans equallyso that people have a place to
choose, but that not every guestwill or needs to become a fan.
Peter Yagecic (33:42):
I love it, and you didn't offend me with the
baseball thing, I'm right therewith you.
I want to do another comboaudience question and try to get
two things in, and this goesback to theony's a little bit,
and and also the, the, the videothat comes out from shows.
So do you feel that theubiquity, uh, of high quality
video, of broadway showsyear-round diminishes the impact
(34:05):
of the tony broadcastappearance?
Does the performance on thetony's serve every show?
Well, and I'm going to mix thatwith another questions on a
similar theme.
And, ruthie, I'd love to kickthis to you, since this was your
concept Would it be a good or abad thing if Broadway's biggest
concert, as you've named, theTonys, was simulcast on every
possible platform YouTube,tiktok, facebook, etc.
(34:25):
Would that be a fan-friendlymove or would it dilute the
exclusivity?
So, wherever you want to grabthat combo question, I'd love to
hear your thoughts on it.
Ruthie Fierberg (34:33):
All right, I that combo question.
I'd love to hear your thoughtson it.
All right, um, I don't thinkanything dilutes anything.
I don't think anything dilutesanything.
I think if you see one Elphabavideo, you're going to want to
see another one.
I think everybody watches everysingle Elphaba's version of no
good deed and the wizard and Iand defying gravity, and we
watch every Glinda's popular andwe like over and then, and then
(34:57):
we watch the same Glinda'spopular as a?
Um stripped down acousticguitar version and then we hear,
sorry, sometimes the slimetutorial and sometimes we, you
know, see the, the produced Broll.
Um, I think that the Tony'sperformance is exciting because
(35:19):
it's the Tony's, because it'ssurrounded by the other Broadway
shows, because sometimes you'redoing a medley of songs,
because you are seeing a companythat's bigger than the company
that is on stage, because theyuse every swing and every cover
to fill that stage at Radio CityMusic Hall, which why not tell
(35:39):
people that?
I don't think that that's acrime, I don't think we should
be avoiding that transparency.
So I think year-round onlybuilds excitement to then see it
and tune in live and see theenergy of that In terms of the
exclusivity of, like CBS andParamount Plus or across
(36:01):
platforms.
Since we always call thisBroadway Super Bowl, I would
actually be really curious whatthe data is on the Super Bowl
Because, like you, can watch theSuper Bowl on whatever network
is carrying it, and also onYouTube TV and also on whatever.
I would think that for Broadway,having it in more places is
(36:26):
only good for us, whether CBSwants to let go of the
exclusivity in that way orlicense it out you know that's,
those are TV deals, um, and Idon't know if that makes it a
less valuable product to carry,and that's something that we
should, as an industry,absolutely consider before,
(36:47):
before we were to disseminate itmore.
But in terms of just theprinciple of does more dilute or
is more advantageous, I land onmore is advantageous and
personally, I think we should belive streaming Broadway shows,
(37:08):
and I think that Good Night andGood Luck proved it.
I think that's you will.
You can't add seats to aBroadway theater, you can't do
it.
So how are we going to grow?
I think you should be capturing, I think you should be
specifically live streaming, butthat's a whole other
conversation.
Peter Yagecic (37:30):
Tease me up for, I think, the last audience
question we'll have time for,and I'd love to get this one
over to you, robert.
As you know fans of digital anddata, but then anyone who wants
to jump in what are the biggestchanges you've seen in the
industry in the digital age?
In what ways has Broadway stillnot caught up to this modern
digital era of entertainment,and what challenges does that
(37:52):
bring?
Robert Diamond (38:06):
I think specifically through the lens of
fandom, if you have anythoughts on that now back and
forth dialogue with every show,having a presence on every
social media network and postingcontinual content to have more
of the continual conversationwith their fans.
That's important.
I would say.
(38:26):
As far as things that it coulddo better is looking at the
guest versus the customer andlooking at the different levels
of fans and figuring out how toengage with each one differently
.
It's a top-of-mind thing here,because we've got a bunch of AI
and personalization projectsthat we're working on, but it's
really about communicating withthe right person at the right
(38:48):
time in the right place.
So having dialogue with thatonce-a-year theater-goer or
somebody who asks the new broson Broadway shows that are
coming out I saw in the Q&A aswell it's talking to that person
and giving them a differentmessage versus the wicked
superfan.
So I think an area for Broadwayto improve on is to better go
(39:13):
through the data and betterdefine what the different
audiences are and have astrategy for communicating with
them.
So you're not just blastingeverything out in mass and
hoping that you're reaching theright people, but really getting
more fine grain with thatcommunication.
Jeremy Kraus (39:30):
Awesome.
Thank you all.
40 minutes has flown by.
I wish we could talk forever,and we will in our separate side
conversations, or maybe we'lldo a part two in the future.
I'm going to end with askingeach of you to get a little hot
take on a hot day of the comingshows.
It could be Broadway oroff-Broadway.
(39:51):
Off-broadway.
What's the one, or maybe thetwo, that you think there's
going to be a groundswell offans flocking to, whether it be
in person to see the show orjust talking about Where's the
buzz heading?
What's coming up that you thinkis going to really catch on
with a bunch of fans, whether itbe in person or online?
(40:13):
Alex, I'm going to start withyou and then we'll go around.
What show do you think iscoming?
Alex Birsh (40:20):
Well, I mean, you know, I feel like Lost Boys is
going to be like a huge thing.
I think it's going to hit veryparticular points of interest
for a number of different peopleacross multiple kind of fandom
spectrums.
Um, and and from the moretraditional sense, uh, I I can
(40:42):
only imagine how pumped peoplewill be to actually go sit and
see ragtime instead of just overand over again watching the
announcement video, which wasreally fun, uh, which I've done
so many times but like that manytimes.
But I think those two are greatexamples of ways that we've got
some really exciting stuff tobe really pumped for and I think
(41:08):
both are going to reallyresonate.
Robert Diamond (41:10):
Robert Sure, we're seeing a ton of early
interest in chess, which I thinkhas done a great job building
early buzz, and we're alsowatching very closely.
Damien over in London, forHercules, as well as Evita and
Verlesque, seem to be thingsthat Broadway fans are keeping a
close eye on and trying tocount down to when they're
(41:32):
coming over as well.
Awesome, ruth.
Ruthie Fierberg (41:35):
I think it's Mamma Mia rage time.
I think everybody is ready tofeel good.
I think everybody is ready fornostalgia.
I think people are impatientfor Mamma Mia 3.
I think that it's been 20 years.
I think everybody will alwayslove ABBA.
I think people are ready todance and have a good time, and
the fact that it's coming inAugust I think people are ready
(41:56):
to dance and have a good timeand the fact that it's coming in
August.
I think that to the WinterGarden, like you know, it feels
like a moment and it feels likesomething that we're just ready
to let our hair down and be allbe dancing queens.
But I also just wanted to addjust one thought in general that
in terms of fandom, I thinkthere are so many more of us
(42:20):
than we even believe there to be.
It is the greatest myth of alltime that Broadway is niche.
We are not niche.
Broadway theaters are local,but Broadway is not niche.
Every time I watch an episodeof television, no matter what it
is, there is a musical theaterreference in there.
(42:41):
There are too many writerswriting those things and too
many people watching it,recognizing those things and
everybody showing up.
I think we have more to growand more to leverage.
So, um, yeah, and, and likeAlex said, there's a show.
(43:01):
There's a show for everyone,everywhere.
Alex Birsh (43:04):
So there are so many shows mama Mia or not there are
so many shows out there, like,that's the thing, the menu is
not, and it is.
You know, the menu is not thislittle special one that happens
inside of a menu.
The menu is the big one, it'sthe Cheese, it's.
(43:33):
How do we get people to know?
And how do we get people to notjust be a fan of, like the
theater of their shows, but toalso say you know, I saw that
keanu reeves is going to be onbroadway and my buddy like sees
john wick, everything, and hasseen everything that he's ever
done.
I bet he's gonna love, he'sgonna want to see him in person
(43:54):
and like, that's the kind oflike.
That's the kind of stuff too,that like it's such natural word
of mouth.
But and that is a reason why,um, big stars are coming to
broadway to try and like usherthese conversations forward.
But then it's, how do we takeadvantage of that of like.
Oh well, there's also thisawesome show that a friend of
mine might love.
That is about a uh, a coursethat had a hell of a life after
(44:19):
it was dead.
Peter Yagecic (44:24):
That's going to do it for this episode of fandom
unpacked the podcast.
If you liked what you heard,please be sure to leave us a
review on Apple podcasts.
Find out how to join us livefor an upcoming recording at
situation livecom slash fan.
We'll see you next time, truebelievers.
You're listening to Fandom Unpacked the podcast,
an audio version of our regularlive stream series where we
unpack modern fandom with someof the brightest minds in sports
and entertainment.
I'm producer Peter Jicic andjoining me for today's Q&A is
Situation CEO and founder DamianBasadana and managing partner
Jeremy Krause.
And managing partner JeremyKrause.
Our guests today from the worldof Broadway journalism are Alex
(00:27):
Bursch, vice president and COOat Playbill, ruthie Feuerberg,
executive editor of BroadwayNews, and Robert Diamond,
founder and CEO of BroadwayWorld.
Here's Damian to get us startedon this Q&A about fandom on
Broadway.
Damian Bazadona (00:40):
Thank you, peter.
Thanks for everyone for coming.
Thank you to our awesome panel.
I'm actually operating over aUK office this week.
I know you're jealous of theweather here, which is about 75
here right now, and I've heardit's 98 where you're sitting.
So sorry, but, peter, this isour first time doing one
dedicated to Broadway on theFandom Unpacked series.
(01:01):
You've had Broadway con andsome others, but this one's
dedicated to Broadway, which,right, it's true, yeah, um and
so it's.
It's about time.
It's a.
The fandom around Broadway isremarkable.
On my plane right here, I had aBroadway themed uh t-shirt, on
to which someone stopped me andgave me a half hour lecture of
all, anywhere, anywhere you are.
So I'm going to just pass it toJeremy.
(01:24):
I think Jeremy has a whole loadof questions to run through,
but I just want to say these arethe best of the best, and not
only is our panel a group ofkind people, but I'll tell you
they're very open-minded.
So when we bring new ideas oranything that's happening, the
market that's changing.
Jeremy Kraus (01:38):
We have no doubt if we email them saying we have
an idea.
They're always fantastic atkind of saying how can we help
and try new things, which Ideeply admire.
(02:00):
So thank you.
And you know the timing of thisis intentional.
We're a couple weeks coming offof an amazing Broadway season
with incredible product on stage, a variety of product that fans
seem to have loved, and we'recoming off the Tony Awards a
couple of weeks ago.
I'm going to start off withRuthie and talk to her a little
(02:23):
bit about the Tonys, and so youknow it is the moment, if you're
a Broadway fan, that everybodygathers around and you know, in
the old days, gathered aroundthe TV, you watched it live.
Things have changed.
We all know that.
The great news is that theratings are up on live viewing
38%, which is great year on year.
(02:44):
Live viewing 38%, which isgreat year on year.
But these days we're seeing,just with all TV, a different
behavior and people are not onlytuning in and it's great to see
that the ratings were up, butwe now know that people are
watching those clips from theTonys online on social, on
YouTube, after the event, in fargreater numbers than watching
(03:04):
it live, and just wanted to kindof touch on that and the Tonys
in general, and what power theystill have over this fandom of
Broadway, both people who haveloved Broadway for years and are
hardcore fans, but also newfans who are, you know, more
casual theater goers who mightbe exposed to the Tonys and to
Broadway who might be exposed tothe Tonys and to Broadway.
Ruthie Fierberg (03:27):
Yeah, I mean, thank you for the question and
for having all of us.
The Tonys are our big knight interms of like being able to
reach the mainstream right,because we are so localized.
We're not like the movieindustry where there is a cinema
all over the place.
We take a little while todisseminate our stories through
tours and regionals andcommunity theater productions.
(03:49):
So the Tonys are really likeour night to reach everybody and
be a nationwide and nowactually a global community.
I think the 38% rise shows thatwe did a lot of things right.
I think that having CynthiaErivo as the host and tapping
into the fandom around theWicked movie and around her just
(04:13):
global fame, but also herpersona, and leaning into what
she does well during thebroadcast kept people watching
and engaged.
I think having Hamiltoncelebrate their 10th anniversary
was very smart.
So I think we did some goodthings there.
I think that with live viewing,I think with anything, there's
(04:35):
room for improvement and I thinkwith live viewing you know it's
hard to find the Tonys nowadays.
You know talking about excuseme, when we were growing up all
sitting around and watching theTV, there was only cable to
watch.
Then, right, like streamingwasn't a thing.
When I was a kid, you eitherhad cable or you didn't, and CBS
(04:55):
is basic cable.
So, like, you had television oryou didn't.
Now, yes, we're still on CBS,but so many people have cut
cable.
And then we do have the factthat this year, um, it wasn't
just a paramount plussubscription is a, it was a
paramount plus with showtimesubscription.
So I think actually the factthat we were up 38 when it was a
(05:16):
essentially a premium cable umevent is is hugely, um,
reassuring about the fandom ofBroadway.
But I also think it's complex oflike, where do you find the
first part?
Oh, it's over here on Pluto.
Oh, then you find the next parton Paramount Plus Showtime.
Well, I have Paramount Plus soI can only watch the day after,
(05:39):
and it's why we on Broadway Newsand I'm sure the other outlets
have a how to Watch the Tonysarticle that is very, very high
in clickage.
So, yeah, and in terms ofYouTube clips, I think more is
more.
Watching at any time is goodfor us.
But I think that one thing isthat if you're looking for clips
(06:04):
, you're probably.
You know, it's the differencebetween a la carte and the
chef's menu, and that you'll belooking for a certain show
rather than seeing the fulloffering of Broadway.
And I think if we branded theTonys as Broadway's biggest
concert because that'sessentially what it is, it was
so many performance numbers wewould get even higher numbers.
(06:27):
Because, you know, I used toalways watch the Oscars.
I don't always watch themanymore because I don't see any
of these movies.
I'm at the theater four to fivenights a week.
I don't know what any of thesecategories are and it's not full
of performances.
So if we say, like you know,the Tony Awards are Broadway's
biggest concert and then we'rehanding out, you know, eight
(06:51):
awards, sure, right, then Idon't have to have seen anything
.
So I think there's a lot tothink about and luckily, we are
going to hopefully grow from aplace of growth in years to come
.
Jeremy Kraus (07:05):
Absolutely, thank you.
That all makes sense and I lovethe idea of Broadway's, you
know, biggest concert.
That is indeed what the Tonysare.
It's what we do best.
Ruthie Fierberg (07:14):
Yeah, I mean, there's a reason why people tune
in to like the first hour ofthe Thanksgiving Day Parade in
bonkers numbers, right, theyknow it's all performances.
So if we use that kind oflanguage, I think you'll see
real in your career for many,many years.
Jeremy Kraus (07:29):
And where are we these days in terms of the
Broadway fan?
Are you know what's theprevailing mood amongst them?
(07:49):
Is there a lot of excitement?
Are a lot of them disgruntledabout something?
I'm sure there's a mix ofeverything.
We know that Broadway fans areabout the most passionate that
I've seen across any type ofentertainment.
But tell us kind of what we'reseeing these days, what they're
looking for.
Give us kind of a pulse checkon them.
Robert Diamond (08:09):
Sure, I think you know everybody's disgruntled
about something these days.
I have a long list that I keepon my phone if anybody wants to
hear about it afterwards.
But I think you know theoverall Broadway fan mood is
exciting.
You know we think that anybodythat comes to Broadway World
either is a theater fan or couldbe or should be.
So we were happy to see that onTony night our traffic was way
(08:31):
up and probably even moreimportantly for the industry,
that has continued.
So we're data geeks here.
I'm a heavy data person.
We get about I don't know150,000 visitors a day and we
break that up by the 15% thatare the most hardcore fans that
are living on our message board,sort of the 35% that are the
more avid regular theater goers,and then the 50% of more casual
(08:55):
fans that are seeing shows oncea month, once every few months,
etc.
And those numbers were all up onTony night and those numbers
all continue to be up post-Tonys.
And that's looking at botheverything that was on the Tonys
, everything that's stillrunning as well as showing high
interest in next season.
And when we break the data downfurther, they're just as
(09:19):
excited about some of the newplays coming in, some of the big
revivals coming in, about someof the new plays coming in, some
of the big revivals coming in.
It's a really good continuedinterest that we're seeing more
than last year and more than theyear before.
So I agree with what Ruthiesaid, that it's wonderful that
they're both watching it liveand then engaging with clips and
stuff afterwards.
But it's nice to see thecontinued life to this time of
(09:42):
year and to the Tony season,that it's helped to lift up the
theater industry and that thathigh interest and excitement
continues.
Jeremy Kraus (09:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think now is the moment wherewe're seeing so many new people
come into Broadway A lot of itdriven by, as everybody has
talked about, the big stars, thebig starry season that we had.
But we're bringing in so manynew people and now it's about
how do we retain them?
And great to hear, robert, thatyou know the idea that the
(10:11):
Tonys did bring in a lot of newpeople and that you are seeing
that increase, stay there andnot just drop off immediately,
so that's a really good sign,alex, I wanted to talk about
kind of how Broadway fans havechanged over the years and we'll
look at it through the lens ofa Broadway fan.
But this really is to anybodyconsuming live entertainment,
(10:33):
what they want to consume, andyou know how they engage with
shows, especially as they're.
You know, maybe if they've everalready bought a ticket, like
with that moment when you'retrying to get them excited when
they're coming to a show I knowyou guys launched, you know
(10:53):
Playbill's pre-show and you knowand even when they're in the
theater and how marketers andhow we can engage with people
when they are in your space sothat it's not just necessarily
the show that they're seeing fortwo hours.
It's the whole experience, socan you talk a little bit about
how that's evolved?
Alex Birsh (11:10):
Well, I think, really, what you see is Broadway
wanting to increase thecustomer experience just from a,
let's say, a caretakingstandpoint.
Right, standpoint right.
So I think that is the correctdirection, especially with
ticket prices overall, you know,steadily, continually going up,
(11:30):
even though the biggest pressthat happens with the broadway
ticket cost is always the toptickets always number the, the
hundreds and hundreds andhundreds of dollars.
That that is the, that's thespicier headline, of course,
when in reality there are manytickets to purchase underneath a
hundred dollars each and, and,I think, the overall.
What what is heartening to seeis that more shows are starting
(11:56):
to kind of begin the experiencewith that purchase ticket or
even as you walk into thetheater, when you feel a
different vibe has begun, um,and we can even look at current
shows that are have been onbroadway for 10 years.
We'll call, we'll say hamiltonis one of them.
You walk in, you sit down andyou see this set, that is one
(12:21):
that you probably recognize fromphotos or anything like that.
Um, and then you look at a fewblocks up and cabaret is like
you are.
You are walking into anightclub, um, or even just very
close by, john proctor is thevillain.
You walk in and with a veryspecifically curated and
(12:43):
incredible playlist before youas you sit down and and it just
the vibe shift is different andyou can tell, even with those
subtle things like, oh OK, weare really starting the
experience earlier, and I thinkthat is a really important thing
and that is actually at thebasis of why we created with.
Why we created the Playbillpre-show is to get people
(13:07):
feeling taken care of quicklyafter they had purchased a
ticket.
But from where a Broadway fanhas kind of shifted a little bit
, or what people's expectationsare and all that I mean, often
it comes down to wow, I paid Xamount of money for this.
This is going to be an excitingtime.
This whole thing is anexperience.
(13:27):
You don't just happen into aBroadway theater.
Usually it is a veryspecifically targeted thing that
you have done for yourselfbecause you want something
special, and so in the end, Ithink it's what can each show do
to make the audience memberfeel special?
You know, what can each show doto make the audience member feel
special, um, coming in and andfeeling like they're about to
(13:49):
experience something that theyreally haven't before and is
worth what they paid, and and soand and we, as Playbill are,
are, uh, a really strong brandthat's involved in all of that
process and we are so lucky tobe um and it's just really it's
fun to see shows starting to toreally kind of amp this up.
(14:09):
Uh, and and for our pre-showpurposes, it's shown to be
really quite highly engaged withum, to the point of like 70
plus percent open rates of likeemails and things, which is
insane.
But it's because people want tobe talked to and they want, and
especially from like a brandlike us, that they trust as part
(14:30):
of the process.
So it's it's exciting to see,and we're uh, and we're excited
to keep exploring ways toenhance it.
Ruthie Fierberg (14:37):
Can I add something about ticket price
that?
I know that we're not talkingabout ticket price is like the
theme of this conversation, butI think it's really relevant to
fans because, as theconversation continues about
fans and word of mouth likebeing our biggest ambassadors, I
think that something we can dois leverage fans into talking
(14:57):
about actually how affordabletheater Broadway is for what it
is that.
First of all, we did numbercrunching for the end of the
season.
We're big fans of Data 2.
We share that in common withBroadway World, but from 20
years ago, adjusted forinflation, adjusted for
(15:18):
inflation, the average ticketprice is only $15 more across
Broadway.
That includes Othello, glennGary, good Night, good Luck,
dorian Gray.
That includes it, and just rawnumbers.
The average ticket price acrossBroadway shows at the end of
the season was $129 a ticket.
(15:40):
So I think we really need to bepushing the narrative with our
fans that, like you can do this,is it something special?
Yes, it's not a $20 movieticket.
It is something live andhappening in front of your face
and, like I say all the time,there are at least 100 people
(16:01):
who have touched the thing orwho are working at that moment
on the thing that you arewatching.
Is it not worth it to pay themeach $1?
Is it not worth it to pay themeach $1?
I don't think we talk about thevalue of theater enough,
because people are paying 80bucks for a drink and appetizer
(16:21):
and dinner at like a mid-rangerestaurant.
So I think for the top tiertheater in the world, we can do
that, and caretaking, you know,and making it a full experience
is definitely part of that.
But I think we can use our fansto share that message as well.
Jeremy Kraus (16:39):
Absolutely.
I mean, I'll say for myself,just went with my family of four
to how to Train your Dragonright, it was IMAX, but you know
we had fun, but we spent $100.
We hadn't even gotten toconcessions, and all of that
just for tickets.
These days even more than that.
Actually, it was like almost$30 per ticket now and so, yeah,
it is the value you get.
(17:00):
But you know, we're in a momentnow where there's a lot of
chatter about how some reallygreat shows are unfortunately
not able to last on Broadway andyou know, maybe they don't have
a star or IP, but you know howthis is piggybacking.
On the last question, we werejust talking about how fans have
changed, how fans are trying to, or we're trying to, give them
(17:24):
an experience that is worthexperiencing and we're trying to
give them the opportunity toshare that Right.
So is there, you know, is theremore that any of you feel like
Broadway can or should be doingwith that in-venue experience
that maybe is being done outside?
Obviously, we all know put awayyour phones when the shows
start, but can we talk a littlebit about any ideas you might
have of how you can provide fanswith a little more than maybe
(17:48):
they're currently getting andAlex, you started to touch on
this the playlist, but any otherthoughts you all have in this
realm.
Robert Diamond (17:56):
Sure, yeah, I mean, I think photo booths and
theaters have done very well.
We saw that with everythingfrom a stack of mattresses, a
(18:17):
once upon a mattress and Gatsby,there's a to share it.
That you know you're treatingyour ambassadors as brand
ambassadors, that you're givingthem this opportunity to capture
additional content, to telltheir friends that were there
that they're at the show.
So those that are adding on tothat with QR codes, with ways of
(18:37):
sending out show previews, andaudio clips and video clips,
stuff that really gives a windowinto this special experience,
that's, you know, worth all $129is, I think, key to word of
mouth and key to building thatconversation.
Ruthie Fierberg (18:54):
Yeah, I would say, for the experience part, I
think the show I want toadvocate for the show being
enough, that I am all, please.
I love to moderate a post-showtalk back or have fun at the
photo booth with my friend, butI want to say, for the
experience, the show is enoughand the extra is extra.
(19:18):
And the extra is extra in termsof selling the show and word of
mouth.
I think that convenience is ourbest ally and if you have a
photo booth set up, like Robsaid, like, especially if it's
integrated into the theme of theshow, I think the Merrily we
Roll Along photo booth at thefront of the Hudson Theater is
one of the most successfulbecause you felt like you were a
(19:41):
part of the ad campaign.
Um, I, I also think that, like,maybe people are always taking
photos under the marquees.
Maybe there's a way to put, um,you know, a photo kiosk that
has the exact right angle sothat we don't have to stop
people um, along the way on thestreet to do to do that.
But the more pictures, theeasier it is to take pictures,
(20:05):
the more likely they are to takethem and to post them if they
don't have to, like, getcreative on their own.
Alex Birsh (20:12):
And we know from like a selling standpoint, right
.
We know that and let's say,we're focused on musicals.
People want to showcase areally fun something that
they've just been to, especiallyat the end of a show, when
everybody's emotions are reallyhigh and they're excited and and
everybody wants to, everybodyfeels like they're walking on
(20:33):
air.
That is a great moment and Iand I know, and that you know, a
few Broadway shows in the pastI've literally said like before,
before the show starts, we, youcan take your phone out at the
very end and we'll tell you whenyou can do it.
And like, and, and that helpsin a number of different ways.
But really like, and I rememberthis example of like Waitress,
(20:56):
when Sara Bareilles was in it,jason Mraz was in it, and they
said at the very end like, allright, folks, take your phones
out, we're going to give you alittle special treat.
Now that obviously I don't knowhow many times that can happen,
but they sang by the idea andthey were like film this and it
went crazy on social media andit was a really great kind of
window into the experience,while also still honoring the
(21:19):
fact that people who do want togo to a Broadway show.
And to Ruthie's point, they wantto disconnect and just like,
see what the art is, see whatthe thing is that they just paid
for, and they don't wantsomeone next to them with, like,
their phone lighting up and allthat stuff and their phone
buzzing.
No, nobody wants that.
They want to actually watch thething, but then at the very end
they want to brag about it.
And then to Robert's pointpoint as well how do we give
(21:48):
them the tools in order to bragabout it?
And that should be thought ofevery single day on, like, how
do we do that?
Often with musicals, it's music, and so how can, how can that
be um communicated in a reallyefficient way?
Peter Yagecic (21:55):
um, as well as just the overall experience
fandom unpacked is brought toyou by an award-winning
marketing agency built for liveentertainment that champions the
power of unforgettable sharedexperiences around the world.
We offer full marketing andcreative services for
experience-based brands in liveentertainment, attractions,
(22:16):
theater, sports, arts andculture, and more.
Check us out atSituationInteractivecom.
Now back to our Q&A.
Jeremy Kraus (22:28):
Robert, these days we are seeing a real big
explosion of Broadwayconversation happening on Reddit
.
It's become very popular aplace where people are really
having heated, passionateconversations about anything,
but also Broadway has a realnice niche there, tell me.
I mean, broadway World is theOG.
(22:49):
You guys are the ones that areknown as the Broadway message
board.
There's always a lot ofconversation about what's
happening on those boards and weknow that not always are the
nicest things being said, butthe old adage is that there's no
such thing as bad press.
What are your thoughts on?
You know the idea of?
Is all conversation that'shappening, obviously respectful
(23:12):
conversation, but it's allconversation, whether it's
critical, whether it's, you know, disgruntled.
Is conversation about Broadwaygood in general, on social, on
chat boards, on Reddit?
Is that a good thing for thisindustry and for fans to have
that place to kind of argue ordebate?
Robert Diamond (23:30):
Absolutely.
I mean the more places to talkabout Broadway, the better, and
the more people talking aboutBroadway, the better, and the
more places that people aretalking about Broadway, the more
likely they are to buy aBroadway ticket.
To come to a website that hasBroadway in its name or it's you
know, an iconic brand likePlaybill, etc.
And that's the whole reasonthat I started the website was
(23:51):
to give people more ways toengage.
I'd say, going back to the datalike the amount of people that
read Broadway World's messageboard versus post on a message
board and the same thing is truewith Reddit and social media is
so much higher.
So it's important to alwayskeep in mind that it's you know
(24:11):
X number of people sayingsomething, but you know a high
multiple of X that are actuallyreading it and engaging with it.
And what we see all the timebecause we look at this data, is
whether it's good, bad orindifferent.
It's making people click tolook at more information about
the show on the website.
Let me see what they're talkingabout, let me see why they say
it's wonderful or why they sayit's terrible.
So it leads to moreinvestigation in that department
(24:34):
and it's really about how doyou leverage that to have the
conversations that you want tohave with these fans and with
these audiences.
So we built a number of toolsthat actually look at Reddit,
look at social media, look atour own boards, find
commonalities of what people aresaying and then break it down
further into again, like theseare the avids, these are the
(24:56):
casuals, these are the hardcorefans.
And really it's about if youcan look at that data, look and
see what people are saying.
That's driving interest andawareness and then figuring out
the next step of how do we comeup with content or a social
media strategy that plays off ofthat to say, okay, this is why
they're coming.
(25:16):
Now, what can we show them?
To get them to buy a ticket, toget them to tell their friends
about it, to adjust theiropinion by correcting a
misconception or putting in somebehind-the-scenes information,
to remind people that these arereal artists working on
something.
Jeremy Kraus (25:41):
They're trying to do, this even if you think
they're doing that and this, youknow it bridges the gap a bit.
And the thing that's so uniqueabout Broadway fans is the fact
that you know if a show's onBroadway, especially before it
starts to tour and some showsdon't tour the idea that you
know a vast majority of peopletalking about a show following a
show.
We see this in our research allthe time.
They are not able to see theshow, they're not going to see
the show, it's in New York, butyet they're still huge fans of
(26:03):
the show.
They still advocate andrecommend the show to people who
come to New York.
And you know, if you're a fanof movies or of music or of TV,
anybody, anywhere you are, canconsume that and you can form
your own opinion.
You know Broadway is so uniquein that so many people talking
about it will never see it andhave never seen it, but yet they
(26:24):
are still so passionate aboutit.
With that, I'm going to seePeter, if you want to open it up
to some fan questions.
Peter Yagecic (26:32):
Yeah, we have so many great questions coming in
and I'm going to do my best tokind of merge them together on
the fly because I want to makesure we get to as many of these
as we can.
So this first question I love.
I'd love to pitch it to you,alex first, and it's come up on
some of our other conversationson this series.
But it says the Playbillpre-show, in welcoming people to
(26:53):
the theater, seems to be animportant mechanism for guests
of each show, where that'savailable.
Are guests the same thing asfans?
If not, does Playbill help moveguests into the direction of
fandom?
And I'd love to merge that withthe conversation we were having
about new audiences as well.
Do we need to move those neweraudiences to shows who maybe
(27:15):
they've never come to a showbefore, in the direction of
fandom to make sure that theycome back?
And Alex said we'd love to hearyou start with that, but then
anyone who wants to get a handon that ball, please, sure.
Alex Birsh (27:27):
So your question about, like, what is the
difference between a guest and afan?
That's interesting, I think.
That, or whoever's questionthat was, I think I mean the
moment that a guest becomes afan, I mean honestly, it happens
, as we were talking aboutbefore, like in the seat, as
(27:47):
it's starting, and the hope isthat you'd start turning them
into a fan earlier, throughoutthat experiential process.
That's what we talked aboutbefore, from a moving people
toward kind of being acheerleader even of it, of a
show.
I think that's such afascinating.
It's a fascinating part of itbecause overall and this even
(28:09):
goes toward the Tonys Broadwayitself is aspirational.
Like every, almost every aspectof Broadway is aspirational.
It is whether that's workingwithin it, whether and and
seeing it is so aspirational,whether that's working within it
and seeing it is soaspirational to a vast majority
of this country, and it's thereason why the Tonys are such an
important moment, because youget to see this aspiration in
(28:34):
its brightest form.
But even, as you're sayingabout how people can just be and
I think, jeremy, you mentionedlike people could just be fans
who just want to be like toevangelize it for, for their
friends and family and all thatit's.
It's like them saying I want toshare my aspiration with you.
(28:55):
Go in my stead, please.
I desperately want to see thisshow.
I can't, you live inPennsylvania, so-and-so you can
do it.
And so I think ultimately, likewe talked about, it's the tools
in which we share what theseshows are not just about, but
why they resonate with people.
(29:15):
And there is a way, and for solong we have we, as in the kind
of global, we within theBroadway sphere gate kept what
was on the stage.
It's like, if you're going togo, you're going to see it.
We're not going to allow you tosee it beforehand.
We're just going to show thesetwo cat eyes and that's all
(29:36):
we're showing you, and that's it.
And then you're going to be socurious on what that is and
you're going to go and look inthe 80s.
Sure, what else are peopledoing?
I guess I don't know, but, but,like now, it's really about how
can we start to make you fallin love and and how can we make
(29:57):
sure that we can show you thatthis is in fact a show for you
and, ultimately, the overallmessage, and that's what I think
the tony's did a very good jobwith this year because of all
the performances and everythinglike that.
What it needs to do an evengreater job of is saying that,
look, whatever you thinkbroadway is, it's not all that,
because you have a show for youout there, you just don't know
(30:19):
about it yet.
And that's ultimately wherethese people who are really
trying to get to Broadway butthey can't, people who are fans
but want to be guests of a showand then doing the exact
opposite.
It's about how do we increasethe army of each show, how do we
(30:40):
get these people to um, toreally showcase why a show is
special and it can be for you,and and there are a lot of ways
to do that, but most often it'sabout showcasing what the vibe
of the show is, what it lookslike on stage, what it sounds
like and what it's like to goand actually explore it, and and
there are tons of things outthere that do this for, like you
(31:03):
, this for hotels and reallygreat restaurants and all these
things that also have higherpoints of entry, but it's like
look at this whole thing thatyou get to experience, and
that's, I think, at the heart ofwhat Broadway needs to do
better, and it's something thatwe at Playbill love trying to
find ways to enhance thatbecause we're so deeply involved
(31:24):
in it.
But that, ultimately, I think,is what Broadway needs to do and
to tap into to make it moresuccessful.
Ruthie Fierberg (31:31):
I just wanted to briefly add that I think
there is a difference betweenguests and fans and I think you
need both.
I do not think that every guestneeds to become a fan.
I think like I'm going tooffend Alex here right now and
say I am not a fan of baseball.
You offended me.
(31:52):
I feel like I can go to abaseball game.
I think it's the feeling ofbeing able to go, knowing that I
could have a good time, knowingwhat to expect, like Alex said,
with the pre-show and thecaretaking.
So I'm not a fan.
Casual fan is a once a monthperson, because I would say a
(32:17):
casual fan is maybe a once aonce a year person.
So that's an amazing engagementfor the casual fan of Broadway
world.
Um, and I totally understandwhat you know, the Broadway
world casual fan but like weneed to say that it's okay if
you only want to come once ayear.
It's not only for the peoplewho come, who come every single
(32:39):
week and and and it kind of uhties into um.
You know the idea of there areso many shows that um, that open
at once and that don'tnecessarily get the momentum.
Like I saw, there was a questionin the Q&A about Dead Outlaw or
like any of these shows thathave announced closing that
(33:01):
people really love, there's agreat fandom for, like the show
score is off the charts, kind ofthing, and I think we have to
start thinking about well, howoften do non-industry people
really go to the theater?
Right, like if someone's goingonce a month.
If five shows open in a monthor one show opens in a month,
(33:25):
they're still going once a month.
So what's your?
You know what's happening there, but I do think that you take
care of guests and fans equallyso that people have a place to
choose, but that not every guestwill or needs to become a fan.
Peter Yagecic (33:42):
I love it, and you didn't offend me with the
baseball thing, I'm right therewith you.
I want to do another comboaudience question and try to get
two things in, and this goesback to theony's a little bit,
and and also the, the, the videothat comes out from shows.
So do you feel that theubiquity, uh, of high quality
video, of broadway showsyear-round diminishes the impact
(34:05):
of the tony broadcastappearance?
Does the performance on thetony's serve every show?
Well, and I'm going to mix thatwith another questions on a
similar theme.
And, ruthie, I'd love to kickthis to you, since this was your
concept Would it be a good or abad thing if Broadway's biggest
concert, as you've named, theTonys, was simulcast on every
possible platform YouTube,tiktok, facebook, etc.
(34:25):
Would that be a fan-friendlymove or would it dilute the
exclusivity?
So, wherever you want to grabthat combo question, I'd love to
hear your thoughts on it.
Ruthie Fierberg (34:33):
All right, I that combo question.
I'd love to hear your thoughtson it.
All right, um, I don't thinkanything dilutes anything.
I don't think anything dilutesanything.
I think if you see one Elphabavideo, you're going to want to
see another one.
I think everybody watches everysingle Elphaba's version of no
good deed and the wizard and Iand defying gravity, and we
watch every Glinda's popular andwe like over and then, and then
(34:57):
we watch the same Glinda'spopular as a?
Um stripped down acousticguitar version and then we hear,
sorry, sometimes the slimetutorial and sometimes we, you
know, see the, the produced Broll.
Um, I think that the Tony'sperformance is exciting because
(35:19):
it's the Tony's, because it'ssurrounded by the other Broadway
shows, because sometimes you'redoing a medley of songs,
because you are seeing a companythat's bigger than the company
that is on stage, because theyuse every swing and every cover
to fill that stage at Radio CityMusic Hall, which why not tell
(35:39):
people that?
I don't think that that's acrime, I don't think we should
be avoiding that transparency.
So I think year-round onlybuilds excitement to then see it
and tune in live and see theenergy of that In terms of the
exclusivity of, like CBS andParamount Plus or across
(36:01):
platforms.
Since we always call thisBroadway Super Bowl, I would
actually be really curious whatthe data is on the Super Bowl
Because, like you, can watch theSuper Bowl on whatever network
is carrying it, and also onYouTube TV and also on whatever.
I would think that for Broadway,having it in more places is
(36:26):
only good for us, whether CBSwants to let go of the
exclusivity in that way orlicense it out you know that's,
those are TV deals, um, and Idon't know if that makes it a
less valuable product to carry,and that's something that we
should, as an industry,absolutely consider before,
(36:47):
before we were to disseminate itmore.
But in terms of just theprinciple of does more dilute or
is more advantageous, I land onmore is advantageous and
personally, I think we should belive streaming Broadway shows,
(37:08):
and I think that Good Night andGood Luck proved it.
I think that's you will.
You can't add seats to aBroadway theater, you can't do
it.
So how are we going to grow?
I think you should be capturing, I think you should be
specifically live streaming, butthat's a whole other
conversation.
Peter Yagecic (37:30):
Tease me up for, I think, the last audience
question we'll have time for,and I'd love to get this one
over to you, robert.
As you know fans of digital anddata, but then anyone who wants
to jump in what are the biggestchanges you've seen in the
industry in the digital age?
In what ways has Broadway stillnot caught up to this modern
digital era of entertainment,and what challenges does that
(37:52):
bring?
Robert Diamond (38:06):
I think specifically through the lens of
fandom, if you have anythoughts on that now back and
forth dialogue with every show,having a presence on every
social media network and postingcontinual content to have more
of the continual conversationwith their fans.
That's important.
I would say.
(38:26):
As far as things that it coulddo better is looking at the
guest versus the customer andlooking at the different levels
of fans and figuring out how toengage with each one differently
.
It's a top-of-mind thing here,because we've got a bunch of AI
and personalization projectsthat we're working on, but it's
really about communicating withthe right person at the right
(38:48):
time in the right place.
So having dialogue with thatonce-a-year theater-goer or
somebody who asks the new broson Broadway shows that are
coming out I saw in the Q&A aswell it's talking to that person
and giving them a differentmessage versus the wicked
superfan.
So I think an area for Broadwayto improve on is to better go
(39:13):
through the data and betterdefine what the different
audiences are and have astrategy for communicating with
them.
So you're not just blastingeverything out in mass and
hoping that you're reaching theright people, but really getting
more fine grain with thatcommunication.
Jeremy Kraus (39:30):
Awesome.
Thank you all.
40 minutes has flown by.
I wish we could talk forever,and we will in our separate side
conversations, or maybe we'lldo a part two in the future.
I'm going to end with askingeach of you to get a little hot
take on a hot day of the comingshows.
It could be Broadway oroff-Broadway.
(39:51):
Off-broadway.
What's the one, or maybe thetwo, that you think there's
going to be a groundswell offans flocking to, whether it be
in person to see the show orjust talking about Where's the
buzz heading?
What's coming up that you thinkis going to really catch on
with a bunch of fans, whether itbe in person or online?
(40:13):
Alex, I'm going to start withyou and then we'll go around.
What show do you think iscoming?
Alex Birsh (40:20):
Well, I mean, you know, I feel like Lost Boys is
going to be like a huge thing.
I think it's going to hit veryparticular points of interest
for a number of different peopleacross multiple kind of fandom
spectrums.
Um, and and from the moretraditional sense, uh, I I can
(40:42):
only imagine how pumped peoplewill be to actually go sit and
see ragtime instead of just overand over again watching the
announcement video, which wasreally fun, uh, which I've done
so many times but like that manytimes.
But I think those two are greatexamples of ways that we've got
some really exciting stuff tobe really pumped for and I think
(41:08):
both are going to reallyresonate.
Robert Diamond (41:10):
Robert Sure, we're seeing a ton of early
interest in chess, which I thinkhas done a great job building
early buzz, and we're alsowatching very closely.
Damien over in London, forHercules, as well as Evita and
Verlesque, seem to be thingsthat Broadway fans are keeping a
close eye on and trying tocount down to when they're
(41:32):
coming over as well.
Awesome, ruth.
Ruthie Fierberg (41:35):
I think it's Mamma Mia rage time.
I think everybody is ready tofeel good.
I think everybody is ready fornostalgia.
I think people are impatientfor Mamma Mia 3.
I think that it's been 20 years.
I think everybody will alwayslove ABBA.
I think people are ready todance and have a good time, and
the fact that it's coming inAugust I think people are ready
(41:56):
to dance and have a good timeand the fact that it's coming in
August.
I think that to the WinterGarden, like you know, it feels
like a moment and it feels likesomething that we're just ready
to let our hair down and be allbe dancing queens.
But I also just wanted to addjust one thought in general that
in terms of fandom, I thinkthere are so many more of us
(42:20):
than we even believe there to be.
It is the greatest myth of alltime that Broadway is niche.
We are not niche.
Broadway theaters are local,but Broadway is not niche.
Every time I watch an episodeof television, no matter what it
is, there is a musical theaterreference in there.
(42:41):
There are too many writerswriting those things and too
many people watching it,recognizing those things and
everybody showing up.
I think we have more to growand more to leverage.
So, um, yeah, and, and likeAlex said, there's a show.
(43:01):
There's a show for everyone,everywhere.
Alex Birsh (43:04):
So there are so many shows mama Mia or not there are
so many shows out there, like,that's the thing, the menu is
not, and it is.
You know, the menu is not thislittle special one that happens
inside of a menu.
The menu is the big one, it'sthe Cheese, it's.
(43:33):
How do we get people to know?
And how do we get people to notjust be a fan of, like the
theater of their shows, but toalso say you know, I saw that
keanu reeves is going to be onbroadway and my buddy like sees
john wick, everything, and hasseen everything that he's ever
done.
I bet he's gonna love, he'sgonna want to see him in person
(43:54):
and like, that's the kind oflike.
That's the kind of stuff too,that like it's such natural word
of mouth.
But and that is a reason why,um, big stars are coming to
broadway to try and like usherthese conversations forward.
But then it's, how do we takeadvantage of that of like.
Oh well, there's also thisawesome show that a friend of
mine might love.
That is about a uh, a coursethat had a hell of a life after
(44:19):
it was dead.
Peter Yagecic (44:24):
That's going to do it for this episode of fandom
unpacked the podcast.
If you liked what you heard,please be sure to leave us a
review on Apple podcasts.
Find out how to join us livefor an upcoming recording at
situation livecom slash fan.
We'll see you next time, truebelievers.
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