September 24, 2025 • 34 mins
How can physical spaces enhance rather than simply contain fan experiences? Kristina Heney, EVP of Marketing at Oak View Group, takes us on a fascinating journey through the evolution of fan-venue relationships, drawing from her remarkable career spanning the NBA, Madison Square Garden, Cirque du Soleil, and now the leader in global venue development.
Heney reveals how next-level fan experiences begin with understanding audience demographics - recognizing that teens camping overnight for their favorite artist have fundamentally different needs than families at afternoon shows or seniors enjoying classic rock concerts. She challenges the industry to raise its baseline expectations, arguing that seamless parking, appropriate food options, and friction-free entry/exit shouldn't be considered "premium" but standard.
The conversation explores how successful venues must reflect and integrate with their local communities through hiring, programming, and architectural decisions. Heney shares surprising insights about fans' willingness to engage more deeply with venues that offer compelling experiences beyond the main event - from member-only speakeasies to post-event celebrations. She advocates for creating "premium for all" experiences rather than just focusing on VIP options.
For marketers and venue operators, Heney offers this profound advice: focus on observing fans throughout their entire venue journey, not just during the show itself. By watching audience behaviors from parking to bathroom lines to concessions, venues gain invaluable insights that drive loyalty and repeat business. Listen now to transform how you think about creating meaningful connections between fans, venues, and the live experiences they share.
Recorded Tuesday, September 23rd, 2025
Hosts: Damian Bazadona, CEO & Founder, Situation & Maureen Andersen, President & CEO, INTIX
Guest: Kristina Heney, EVP Marketing, Oak View Group
Producer: Peter Yagecic, Innovation Advisor, Situation
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Peter Yagecic (00:05):
You're listening to Fandom Unpacked from
Situation and Intix, the podcastseries where we unpack modern
fandom with some of thebrightest minds in sports and
entertainment.
I'm producer Peter Jicic, andjoining me for today's Q&A are
Situation CEO and founder,damian Bazzadana, and president
and CEO of Intix, maureenAnderson.
Our guest today is ChristinaHeaney, evp of Marketing at
(00:27):
Oakview Group, the global leaderin venue development,
management and premiumhospitality services for the
live event industry.
Here's Damian to get us started.
Damian Bazadona (00:37):
Yeah, let's roll, tina.
Thank you, as always.
Thank you.
So, as Peter mentioned, you'vehad the privilege to work on
some of the most iconic brandsin live entertainment NBA, msg,
cirque, now Oakview Group.
You know when you think aboutfandom and that's a pretty wide
range of brands.
I just spoke about in differentperspectives what would be a
(00:59):
through line.
You see through all the workthat you've done over the years
when it comes to understandingfans.
Kristina Heney (01:04):
Yeah, thanks, damien, I think you were with me
through most of thoseadventures.
So, yes, I've had the goodfortune to work with incredibly
iconic brands and I've certainlylearned each along the way.
If I start at the beginning, Istarted at the NBA at a really
unusual time.
It was the lockouts.
There was a shortened season.
(01:26):
We literally didn't have anexperience on the courts and yet
there was a business because wehad fans and there was an
unrelenting focus on the fansand community and fostering that
relationship because that wasthe future of the league and
that was the future of the NBA'sbusiness is how do we represent
(01:51):
and have some fidelity to thefans and the fan experience,
even when there wasn't anexperience on the court?
Next, I had the unbelievableadventure of being at Mass
Square Garden for 15 years.
Mass Square Garden owns RadioCity Music Hall, beacon Theater,
a couple of other iconic spots,and there, of course, I
(02:13):
continued working with iconicbrands, both sports side
concerts, but also Radio City,chris Spectacular.
But I added the learnings thatcome from working with iconic
venues and the idea that venuescan actually enhance an
experience.
You know Madison Square Garden,the world's most famous arena
(02:36):
where artists bring their A-list.
You know A-list surprise guests, radio City Music Hall there's
no equal, and so working inthose spaces really had helped
me see how the venue experienceitself could enhance the brands.
At Cirque, I widened theperspective of what a brand can
(02:57):
look like in different culturesand how it can live with
different cultures around theworld, and had a really
interesting adventure of workingwith different types of venues
at the same time.
We worked with everything fromthe big top that you might be
familiar with to casinos, totheaters to arenas all around
the world, and the dichotomy ofworking of what the same brand
(03:20):
and the same show and the fanexperience was, how that was
realized at different venues waspretty eye-opening for me.
And now at Oku Group.
Oku Group is an owner andoperator of our own venues and
we innovate at every point ofthe fan experience and then we
share those services with othervenue owners around the world.
(03:42):
Here we look at how to createthose fan experiences through
our knowledge of the venueexperience itself.
So I kind of feel like I'vebrought it all together with a
combination of how iconic brandsand venues can pair to create
(04:04):
the best experience possible.
Damian Bazadona (04:06):
So that is a pretty wide range of live
experience experience.
I've spent most of my career.
I'm in the marketing andadvertising space, as you know,
and most of my job, where youand I have intersected, is this
idea of putting butts in seatsright.
That's a big part.
You've done a masterfully ofyour entire career, if I may say
so.
How do you define but nowyou're a little bit more on the
(04:26):
venue side how do you define,like, what is next level fan
experience?
Like, how do you define yourmind?
How do you think about that?
If I say what's next level fanexperience, what does it mean to
you and to oakview group yeah,well, I think it starts with uh,
what fan are we talking about?
Kristina Heney (04:42):
you know our venues can host everything from
a family show to a concertthat's for tweens, to something
where the guests you know theguests are.
You know kids and parents, toan older demographic, and it's
about meeting the fans wherethey are.
What is the expectation of thefan experience for a more senior
(05:05):
audience going to see theEagles versus a family show
audience?
And we know, from a marketingperspective, the motivations are
different, the target audiencepsychology is different, but
from a venue standpoint it'swildly different as well.
Right, are you going to havefans camping out overnight,
young fans camping out overnight, young fans camping out
overnight?
(05:25):
The fan safety changesdrastically.
What type of food and beverageare you going to serve?
Do you care about what thespecialty cocktail or whole beer
selection is, or are youlooking for family-friendly food
?
It really spans the gamut and Ithink the next level is,
honestly to me, what the baselevel should be.
The next level is, honestly tome, what the base level should
(05:51):
be, which is seamless parkingand entry.
You know the best choice offood and hospitality based on
the target audience, the bestshow, and you know a seamless
exit and back home you go.
I think that the next, that, tome, is the base level and I
don't think we've achieved eventhat yet consistently.
The next level is probablyalready here and we just need
(06:11):
better adoption of venues likeSphere, intuit, dome, awesome,
abba, voyages.
They're all at the frontier ofusing technology to ease
friction within the fanexperience and also to elevate
the actual experience andintegrate how the venue enhances
(06:32):
the product itself.
I think it's about adoption forthose and making that scalable
to more venues around the world.
And it's coming, it's alreadystarted.
Damian Bazadona (06:42):
Well, it's fascinating just having two
teenage boys, like when I go toa concert event with them.
Our definition of a greatexperience is, I'd say, pretty
different.
Right Like, you know how fastcan we get out of the parking
lot?
You know, I'm just kidding.
Kristina Heney (06:58):
No, but seriously, that people think
that shows how far we have to goin the totality of the touch
points of a fan experience.
It's getting too expensive theactual show or product or game
itself that we have to thinkabout over all of those
experiences, and it could begood business to do that.
Damian Bazadona (07:19):
Yeah, it's fair .
Maureen Andersen (07:22):
Yeah, it's that the relationship between
fan and venue is so interestingand how it's really kind of
morphed and changed in the lastyou know decade or so, and I
mean at lightning speed.
You know, I live here in PalmSprings and my home arena is
Accusure Arena.
Thank you so much.
And when I go, the experiencethat I'm kind of fed up to, what
(07:42):
is given to me, is different bywhat kind of event.
So when I go with a seniorfriend of ours who is a season
ticket holder to the Firebirdshockey team, that experience is
different than what I'm givenwhen I go to Earth, Wind, Fire
or, you know, to Paul McCartney.
So that has changed.
(08:02):
But the real question is thatwe still, of course, in that fan
venue experience, have a longway to go because, like you said
, it's reducing friction.
What are we lagging behind on?
What are we missing?
Kristina Heney (08:16):
in a broad sense , is missing higher level
expectations from the fans.
Here.
Their fans are spending atremendous amount of money, and
more and more every day to seetheir favorite show, their
favorite artist, their favoriteteam.
And yet venues havehistorically been pretty
(08:40):
consistent, 365 days a year,regardless of what's been in the
venue itself.
And using that brand knowledge,that brand ownership, knowledge
of what the fan, you know whothe fan is and what do they want
and how are they connected to X, y and Z artist or team.
The venue has to use that sameknowledge to adapt to their
offerings.
Is there going to be a lot ofpeople driving or are folks
(09:00):
going to take public transit?
Are there going to be a lot ofpeople driving or are folks
going to take public transit?
Are there going to be a lot ofUber drop-offs?
All of those things should bethought of just from every
touchpoint along the fanexperience.
It should be curated to theaudience in the building.
And I think 10 years ago theinnovation was VIP right, where
(09:22):
guests who had more money couldhave the best parking spots,
could cut the line, for you knowthat's otherwise seen as
inconvenient, could maybe have aspecial club to hang out in and
you know and have special seats, but now what many venues are
considering and what OBG istrying to do is to say no, no,
no.
It should be where every fanexperience has less friction and
(09:47):
has more curated offerings andthere should be a sense of
premium for all, where, whetheror not you want a
membership-only speakeasyexperience and you want to come
early and have that and staylate and have a post-party, or
you want a great hot dog and youknow a cold beer and cold draft
beer, those two experiences canexist and should, and it's good
(10:10):
business for venues to startcurating their experiences for
the guests in the building onany given night or day, great
ideas, curating the experiencefor every fan.
Maureen Andersen (10:21):
And you know it is different and every human
being and I'm different, as acustomer as well, to what the
event and who I'm with and andtime of day and time of year and
all kinds of things that gointo that as well, and you know,
always give me good food andalways give me, you know, a
private bathroom and parking.
Um, that's my curation.
Um, I am curious also is thatyou know, when you work with
(10:44):
Cirque and Madison SquareGardens, these are big, storied
venues with decades worth ofstory and history that you know
to tell and that comes kind of apackage storytelling.
It makes it easier.
The platform is already there.
Oakview Group has, you know, somany new buildings coming into
market and you know Akershireand Co-op and Moody and Climate
(11:16):
Pledge.
How do you bring a newnarrative or a new mindset to
sports venue and marketing whenyou're starting at ground zero
with a story?
How do you evolve that?
Kristina Heney (11:23):
It's all about the community.
You know, every community weenter has its own
characteristics, its ownpersonality, its own traditions,
its own, you know,sustainability challenges, its
own diversity, and how wereflect and how, as any venue
whether or not we can build itfrom scratch or we operate it on
(11:47):
behalf of others how weapproach that has to be, um, in
keeping with the, the community,right.
So, because it is oftentimes agathering place, uh, and
hopefully a happy gatheringplace of the of the community
and and therefore it shouldreflect it.
So that's where we start, andyou'll see us working with local
(12:09):
sponsors.
We'll have naming contests forvarious teams, et cetera, like
we did for Climate Pledge Arenaand the Seattle Cracking, and
all of those are ways tointegrate and build those
stories.
And then, honestly, we build avenue story, but we also have an
(12:30):
obligation to partner with thebrand owners to make sure that
we're building a fan experiencearound their brand as well.
Maureen Andersen (12:38):
I want to take that one step further and then
I'll put this back over to Peter, but I was curious.
Is that when we were talkingprior, is that you talked about
the empathy for the fans and itis when you're in a community,
is that you're reflecting whatthat community looks like, so
the diversity and looking forways for inclusion, and that
there's there's rooted presenceinside of of a community, and I
(13:01):
see that here in my own with theiceplex and kids and pride fest
and parades and you know, isthat part of the of the, the
focus and the organicness of ofOakview Group.
Kristina Heney (13:16):
Now, it absolutely is.
It's a core principle of oursthat everything about our venue
should reflect the community inwhich we service.
So it starts with the buildingitself feeling organic to the
community if we have theopportunity to build or
(13:36):
refurbish or renovate, orrenovate.
But it starts with hiring thefolks who you are seeing in the
building should reflect thecontent that we're going to have
available, as well as theaudience we're serving.
The content itself, whatcontent we're bringing to the
venue.
Obviously it's good business tobe able to sell tickets back to
(13:56):
Damien and my roots, but thenalso how we're thinking about
being a citizen of the community, and Cirque really taught me
that, even though we weretransient in terms of traveling
around the world, liveexperiences are served so
hyper-locally and so personally.
They could be global brands,but they're experienced in
(14:18):
venues of all sizes around theworld and there's no replicating
that.
And how we engaged in each ofthose communities was um was, I
think, the key to to circ'ssuccess and, and hopefully, the
keto groups as well it's up toyou.
Maureen Andersen (14:38):
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Peter Yagecic (15:13):
I'm going to try to sneak in a couple of audience
questions here real quick andthen I will pitch it back to our
hosts.
This first one I couldn'tresist, because you've all
mentioned parking to some extentin today's conversation already
.
I saw a video not long agoabout how AI robots are being
used to park cars in China.
Has Oakview Group been talkingto any robotics companies to
(15:34):
explore bringing that stateside?
Kristina Heney (15:37):
AI robotics for parking Wow, that I hadn't heard
.
No-transcript, first frictionpoints.
(16:09):
But I would say it doesn't haveto be high tech.
My favorite story about parkingis Disney, where they employ
folks to guest experienced folksto help you find your car after
a long day at the park, whetherit's after fireworks or
whatever it is.
It's been a long day.
You've been there walkingaround all day.
(16:30):
They've got your money.
That you've already experiencedat the park and here they are
spending time making sure thatyou can find your car and get on
your way safely and without anymore friction.
And they do that just bytimestamping, where they're
filling the parking lots at anygiven time.
So they can say to you Peter,well, no problem, we'll help you
(16:50):
out.
About what time did you parktoday?
Oh, I got here at 820 for roaddrop or whatever, and then they
know exactly where you parked.
That was simple, it was justtracking.
A little Excel chart could dothat.
That was simple, it was justtracking.
A little Excel chart could dothat.
And I think that speaks back toMaureen's comment about empathy
, if you think throughout thefan experience, of all of the
(17:11):
potential points where the fancould have friction or the fan
could have an opportunity foroptimized experience and
recognize that each step alongthat way is a part of your
responsibility, then I think youmake those decisions and you
(17:32):
can solve for it in simple oryou can go for the AI robots
Little from column A, littlefrom column B and I do need that
empathy because I neverremember to take the picture of
the sign where I'm parked at Onemore fan question, audience
question that I want to squeezein this one's a little bit
bigger picture.
Peter Yagecic (17:46):
But what is something that's crucially
important to fans, that hassurprised you in the work that
you do with venues or logistics,is anything that sticks out
that you were like oh wow, wedidn't expect that.
Kristina Heney (17:59):
I don't think it's so much what I've learned
that they expect.
It's actually what I've learnedthat you can earn by surprising
them, and that they are readyto engage in venues more and
ready to engage in a broaderexperience if you offer
(18:21):
something compelling.
We've all had the experiencewhere we've been meeting friends
for a concert and we've said,okay, well, where should we have
?
Where should we?
What bar, what restaurantshould we meet up at before?
Right, no one is thinking weshould have a great early night
dinner at the arena.
Right, that's not.
(18:41):
That hasn't really becomesomething expected of clients.
But if you offer it, if youoffer a member-only speakeasy,
like we have in Moody Center orthe Rah-Rah Room, like Phoenix
has, or an opportunity to partyafterwards, like so literally to
take the party into the atriumat Co-op Live, you recognize
(19:03):
that people will stay andcontinue to engage with it.
And you have theseopportunities, step by step, to
broaden the fan experience, tobroaden how they engage with the
wider experience of a show or agame.
If you give them that option.
And I think that's the biggesttakeaway I've had that a lot of
(19:24):
our innovations have just comefrom looking around the corner
and saying, hey, why do we haveto settle for a bad glass of
wine.
Why can't we offer a greatglass of wine?
Why can't we offer multipletypes of draft beer?
And, I think, why can't weoffer the best hot dog?
Why can't we offer a best hotdog?
Why can't we offer, you know, amember, only dining experiences
(19:45):
?
And when we do do that, it'sfolks engage and, and I think
that's the, that's the biggestlearning, necessarily, that I've
had at ok group, um, and I'mlooking, I'm looking forward to
seeing what's next, becausesky's the limit when you think,
when you take that perspective,yeah, what's the?
How do you think what's next?
Because sky's the limit whenyou take that perspective.
Damian Bazadona (20:03):
Yeah, what's the how do you think, what's the
secret I guess I don't know ifyou'd say a secret or what's the
recipe, I think, for making avenue itself like a destination
for fandom.
And how do you think aboutmeasuring success?
Now, I recognize this is not alazy question where it's like
well, how do you measure success?
I find it probably complicatedbecause, particularly on some
(20:24):
things people might expect likepeople, it's all an expectations
game of what their expectationsare going in.
So I'm just curious how youthink about how you measure.
Are we being effective at whatwe're trying to do?
Kristina Heney (20:36):
Well, I don't think anyone's nailed it, but I
do think you know, from ourperspective, the question I want
to win every given, I want towin every time it's asked is
where will I have the bestexperience?
And that's agents and bookersthinking about where they're
going to route their artists tofans saying, if I have a choice
(20:58):
of where to see my favoriteartist or obviously less choice
when it comes to teams is, um, Iwill go here.
We had that at the gardenbecause people, we had this aura
that folks were going to bringtheir a game to the garden and
and they were going to bringtheir a list you know, surprise
guests and there was going to besomething special.
That happens at the garden.
(21:18):
But for other venues around theworld it can be as easy as
where's the best food?
Where is there no problem withparking?
All of the things we've talkedabout.
If you put them together, theycreate a better experience and
we want to win that argumentevery time.
What's the best experience?
And from KPIs, it can beeverything from nps scores.
(21:39):
At circ we had, um, the npsscore for the show or the game.
Well, in the case, the show, uh, but we also had the cx nps.
So what were the frictionpoints or the best attributes of
the fan experience outside ofthe big top?
And so we measured that fromand obviously they they, you
(22:02):
know vary widely between a bigtop that was literally popped up
in the middle of nowhere to, uh, an arena or an established
theater or something like that.
But we also can look at thenumbers right.
Where is your per cap increasingbecause you've offered a
different variety of whatever?
Where's your um?
What's the feedback from theartists that they're comfortable
(22:24):
and their teams are comfortablestaying at your venues?
We actually spend a ton of timeand effort on the backstage
experience that fans never see.
So we have artist compoundswhere they can hang out with
their family.
We've got workout rooms.
We have all of this backstagestage at more and more venues
that um, so that we can enticethe artists to feel comfortable
(22:45):
staying at, staying andperforming at our venues.
So it's it's a holistic view ofit and it's not perfect
definitely a science in the art.
Damian Bazadona (22:54):
But if you focus on winning that question
every time, I think you'll beheaded in the right direction
yeah, no, it's interesting, yournote, just like you sort of
said, no one's figured it out inthe sense of like it's
complicated, it's extremelycomplicated.
Yeah, maureen.
Maureen Andersen (23:08):
Hey, I'm very interested in you know so many
venues is that you know theticket itself is the key that
unlocks to.
You know who that person is,and behind all of that is this
huge, vast amount of data thatyou have access to about the
person and what theirpreferences and stuff are.
Are there innovations, eitherdigitally or physically, inside
(23:29):
the venue or the event space,that you're excited about you
know?
For example, is you know, arethere more kiosk kind of things?
Can I walk up to a kiosk and,you know, insert my credit card
and get a bottle of DomaineChandon, you know, and just take
it away without having to gothrough?
You know a maze of people, ortalk to anybody, or you know
grab and go.
(23:50):
I know all that stuff is prettyestablished stuff, but is there
something that's new andexciting about engaging
digitally or physically withthem, with the data especially?
Kristina Heney (24:00):
Absolutely.
I mean, I mean first party datahas been the holy grail for
decades and live entertainment,uh, has the amazing good fortune
of of having always had firstparty data through the ticketing
process.
And you know we've always saidfor with data comes
responsibility, and if and we'vealways believed, at least in my
(24:22):
teams, that if we had the data,it was our responsibility to
act with it, to act with empathy, to figure out how we can
improve the experience for thatguest.
And that absolutely shouldtranslate into the venue
experience and reducing friction.
And the most notable example isIntuit Dome, where your ticket
(24:45):
is connected to an app and theyuse facial recognition to smooth
the lines at entry.
You can walk into a kiosk whereyou can get your bottle of Dom
Perignon.
Maybe I'd have to check thebranding and the sponsorship at
Intuit Dome, but you can at ourvenues and you can just walk
through using your face as yourID and what does it do?
(25:09):
It gets you what you want withless friction and back to your
seat as fast as you can to enjoythe experience you paid for.
So I think the key there isadoption and with any new
technology, it's getting folksused to using it and then you
(25:35):
know getting it scalable right.
So how more and more venues canadopt similar technology, so
that that becomes the norm.
Maureen Andersen (25:39):
Well, and that brings up the really great
question is that you have venuesthat are servicing millions of
fans a year around the globe.
Is that?
How do you balance thatpersonalization and scale?
I mean, does AI?
Is that figuring into what'sgoing to be happening?
Kristina Heney (25:57):
definitely data plays a massive role.
Machine learning AI has beenused extensively, but I would
say, simplest.
Maureen Andersen (26:05):
Without the huge investment of data in AI,
it starts with one fan at a timeand one community at a time In
one venue and one you know, andif the event is right and the
experience is right, I love thatone sound Down to one person.
Thank you, Yep.
That's how you win.
I love that one sound Down toone person.
Thank you, Yep.
That's how you win.
I'll give it back to Peter forsome questions.
Peter Yagecic (26:31):
Yeah, I want to try to squeeze in two more quick
audience questions, which Ithink this one is slightly
relevant to where you guys werejust talking.
Earlier you talked a little bitabout your work with Cirque du
Soleil and internationalaudiences.
How are international fansdifferent from US fans and how
are they the same?
And I wonder if it kind ofconnects to that technology?
(26:51):
Is there a translationexpectation or is there anything
around international audiencesthat you've discovered?
Kristina Heney (27:03):
audiences that you've discovered.
Yeah, absolutely.
This is one of my favoritediscoveries of working with
Cirque du Soleil that this oneiconic brand could be translated
differently in multiplecultures.
And that's what it is.
It's that the fan is bringingtheir culture to the experience
and that's what makes itdifferent and that's what makes
it unique.
All of their fans andtraditions and cultural
references are so different.
(27:25):
In mexico, where people bring,you know, where their average
ticket is like five or six perorder, because they want to come
with a family, they want tocome with multiple generations,
versus uk, where we might playit, you know, at a royal albert
hall, where it's you know,they're looking for a facade, a
show, this epic, whereas inChina, for example, they're
(27:47):
looking for huge andlarger-than-life and
high-technology uses.
The fan is bringing somethingdifferent to the brand, but the
brand is the same and I thinkthat was pretty fascinating for
me.
I also think, well, cirque wasa bit different in that I called
(28:10):
their language Cirque-ish,because literally, the Cirque
show was created to beborderless and to travel across
borders around the worldseamlessly, and that's why the
language is sort of a mishmash,and so it works really well for
that.
But I think that the most recentexample is Taylor Swift.
(28:30):
I mean I loved listening to.
Well, first there was thedancer that would always have a
different saying and there was adifferent translation for a
line.
We're never getting backtogether, right, everyone on the
screen knows what I'm talkingabout, but there was that one
line where they would articulatedifferent based on the culture
(28:53):
and the language they were in.
But there was also theexperiences that the culture
brought to.
Like Argentina versus Australiaversus the UK.
It was wildly different interms of what the fans brought
and how they incorporated theirculture into the same concert
that was touring the world, andI think that I mean that's why
(29:17):
Taylor was so brilliant, right,she recognized that and embraced
it, and I think that's whatmore and more brands around the
world will do as brands goglobal.
Peter Yagecic (29:27):
What can't we learn from Taylor Swift?
That's my motto.
Hey, seriously, last audiencequestion and then I'll kick it
back to Damien.
The conversation aroundnext-level fan experiences has
made me think about how airportshave tried to up their game
when it comes to the flyerexperience.
Can entertainment learn fromvenues like, say, the new
(29:47):
LaGuardia, or vice versa?
Kristina Heney (29:50):
Yeah, I mean, I am not ashamed to say that I
will eat at the United Club atNewark Airport now, which I
don't think I ever, ever, everwould have said.
I know folks who love the hotelexperience at JFK, you know.
So it was Terminal 5, right.
So, yes, I've always been a bigbeliever in live entertainment,
benchmarking their learningsagainst other industries that
(30:14):
are doing something better.
Damien and I always talk aboutthat when it about digital and
use of behavioral insights todrive digital adoption and
efficacy.
But I would also say venuesthemselves can look at
non-traditional liveentertainment to find learnings.
Golf, live golf.
We were talking about someSavannah Bananas in our prep F1.
(30:39):
They are festivals.
In our prep um f1.
They are festivals.
These are all non-traditionalentertainment options in
non-traditional venues that arecreating unbelievable
experiences that are almost, youknow, agnostics of whether or
not there's walls, uh, and anactual building itself, and what
you can learn from that.
(30:59):
What we've been learning fromthat at Opie Group is pretty
eye-opening how you can thinkabout the experience starting
outside the walls and what doesa premium experience for all
look like?
It spans the gamut and there'sa lot of opportunity there as
well, in addition to LaGuardiaMaybe not LaGuardia yet.
But I think the other pointthat I would make is that you
(31:21):
also, the tipping point is whentravelers or fans you know, who
have visited multiple airportsor venues, start recognizing
when choice is not available andquality is not available.
And then the expectation gameis raised.
And I think we're seeing thatat airports, thankfully for
(31:43):
folks who travel as much as I do, but now we're also starting to
see it at venues, and maybe wehave for the last couple years,
and that's a real opportunitywhen fans start saying no, I do
want more for my experience, mydollar, yeah and I.
Peter Yagecic (31:55):
I love that you mentioned the savannah bananas.
We have emily cole who's goingto be joining us in December
December 9th on a fandomunpacked, so we'll be sending
out information on that, but,damian, I want to I am a part of
her fandom.
Me too, Damian.
I want to kick it back to youfor our last question.
Damian Bazadona (32:11):
Yes, I got last question, so let me, before I
ask the last question, I justwant to say Tina, thank.
I really believe you have anextremely unique perspective of
all these years and watching thework you do and how you do it
masterfully not just blowingsmoke, truly and you're always
willing to share your wisdom andI genuinely appreciate it.
You've got a lot going on overthere.
I can tell We've had a blast,yes, so what is something as the
(32:36):
folks listening in, we've gotpeople from from all walks of
life of live entertainment.
Our whole job is engaging fansand engaging audiences.
What's something you thinkmarketers or producers of
content, whatever it might be,most often misunderstand about
live audiences today that youmaybe consistently see happening
(32:57):
over and over again, that youmight, you know, share your
wisdom on?
Kristina Heney (33:01):
This is what I say to young marketers or
marketers starting out in liveentertainment specifically.
Because live entertainment isso personal and visceral,
there's a risk that marketerscould focus on the show or the
game, and what I tell them isdon't focus on the show or the
(33:23):
game, focus on the fans.
Watch the fans.
They will tell you everythingyou need to know about if you're
winning in the game of fanexperience and how you're going
to create repeat and loyalty anddrive that, and don't just sit
in the seats.
Walk outside and see what theexperience is in the parking
area and on the line to get in.
(33:44):
Stand at the bathroom and seeif there are bathroom lines.
How long is it taking someone toget back to their seats, to get
a bottle of water or somethingto eat?
All of those things are theresponsibility of a marketer and
a live experience.
And because live entertainmentis so visceral and personal, you
could really make the mistakeof thinking your experience or
(34:09):
your view of the product or theartist or whatever is that of
the masses, and in actuality, itcould be the other way around.
So I think that's usually myfeedback Watch the fans.
Peter Yagecic (34:27):
That's going to do it for this episode of Fandom
Unpacked the podcast.
If you liked what you heard,please be sure to leave us a
review on Apple Podcasts.
Find out how to join us livefor an upcoming recording at
SituationLivecom slash fan.
We'll see you next time, truebelievers.
You're listening to Fandom Unpacked from
Situation and Intix, the podcastseries where we unpack modern
fandom with some of thebrightest minds in sports and
entertainment.
I'm producer Peter Jicic, andjoining me for today's Q&A are
Situation CEO and founder,damian Bazzadana, and president
and CEO of Intix, maureenAnderson.
Our guest today is ChristinaHeaney, evp of Marketing at
(00:27):
Oakview Group, the global leaderin venue development,
management and premiumhospitality services for the
live event industry.
Here's Damian to get us started.
Damian Bazadona (00:37):
Yeah, let's roll, tina.
Thank you, as always.
Thank you.
So, as Peter mentioned, you'vehad the privilege to work on
some of the most iconic brandsin live entertainment NBA, msg,
cirque, now Oakview Group.
You know when you think aboutfandom and that's a pretty wide
range of brands.
I just spoke about in differentperspectives what would be a
(00:59):
through line.
You see through all the workthat you've done over the years
when it comes to understandingfans.
Kristina Heney (01:04):
Yeah, thanks, damien, I think you were with me
through most of thoseadventures.
So, yes, I've had the goodfortune to work with incredibly
iconic brands and I've certainlylearned each along the way.
If I start at the beginning, Istarted at the NBA at a really
unusual time.
It was the lockouts.
There was a shortened season.
(01:26):
We literally didn't have anexperience on the courts and yet
there was a business because wehad fans and there was an
unrelenting focus on the fansand community and fostering that
relationship because that wasthe future of the league and
that was the future of the NBA'sbusiness is how do we represent
(01:51):
and have some fidelity to thefans and the fan experience,
even when there wasn't anexperience on the court?
Next, I had the unbelievableadventure of being at Mass
Square Garden for 15 years.
Mass Square Garden owns RadioCity Music Hall, beacon Theater,
a couple of other iconic spots,and there, of course, I
(02:13):
continued working with iconicbrands, both sports side
concerts, but also Radio City,chris Spectacular.
But I added the learnings thatcome from working with iconic
venues and the idea that venuescan actually enhance an
experience.
You know Madison Square Garden,the world's most famous arena
(02:36):
where artists bring their A-list.
You know A-list surprise guests, radio City Music Hall there's
no equal, and so working inthose spaces really had helped
me see how the venue experienceitself could enhance the brands.
At Cirque, I widened theperspective of what a brand can
(02:57):
look like in different culturesand how it can live with
different cultures around theworld, and had a really
interesting adventure of workingwith different types of venues
at the same time.
We worked with everything fromthe big top that you might be
familiar with to casinos, totheaters to arenas all around
the world, and the dichotomy ofworking of what the same brand
(03:20):
and the same show and the fanexperience was, how that was
realized at different venues waspretty eye-opening for me.
And now at Oku Group.
Oku Group is an owner andoperator of our own venues and
we innovate at every point ofthe fan experience and then we
share those services with othervenue owners around the world.
(03:42):
Here we look at how to createthose fan experiences through
our knowledge of the venueexperience itself.
So I kind of feel like I'vebrought it all together with a
combination of how iconic brandsand venues can pair to create
(04:04):
the best experience possible.
Damian Bazadona (04:06):
So that is a pretty wide range of live
experience experience.
I've spent most of my career.
I'm in the marketing andadvertising space, as you know,
and most of my job, where youand I have intersected, is this
idea of putting butts in seatsright.
That's a big part.
You've done a masterfully ofyour entire career, if I may say
so.
How do you define but nowyou're a little bit more on the
(04:26):
venue side how do you define,like, what is next level fan
experience?
Like, how do you define yourmind?
How do you think about that?
If I say what's next level fanexperience, what does it mean to
you and to oakview group yeah,well, I think it starts with uh,
what fan are we talking about?
Kristina Heney (04:42):
you know our venues can host everything from
a family show to a concertthat's for tweens, to something
where the guests you know theguests are.
You know kids and parents, toan older demographic, and it's
about meeting the fans wherethey are.
What is the expectation of thefan experience for a more senior
(05:05):
audience going to see theEagles versus a family show
audience?
And we know, from a marketingperspective, the motivations are
different, the target audiencepsychology is different, but
from a venue standpoint it'swildly different as well.
Right, are you going to havefans camping out overnight,
young fans camping out overnight, young fans camping out
overnight?
(05:25):
The fan safety changesdrastically.
What type of food and beverageare you going to serve?
Do you care about what thespecialty cocktail or whole beer
selection is, or are youlooking for family-friendly food
?
It really spans the gamut and Ithink the next level is,
honestly to me, what the baselevel should be.
The next level is, honestly tome, what the base level should
(05:51):
be, which is seamless parkingand entry.
You know the best choice offood and hospitality based on
the target audience, the bestshow, and you know a seamless
exit and back home you go.
I think that the next, that, tome, is the base level and I
don't think we've achieved eventhat yet consistently.
The next level is probablyalready here and we just need
(06:11):
better adoption of venues likeSphere, intuit, dome, awesome,
abba, voyages.
They're all at the frontier ofusing technology to ease
friction within the fanexperience and also to elevate
the actual experience andintegrate how the venue enhances
(06:32):
the product itself.
I think it's about adoption forthose and making that scalable
to more venues around the world.
And it's coming, it's alreadystarted.
Damian Bazadona (06:42):
Well, it's fascinating just having two
teenage boys, like when I go toa concert event with them.
Our definition of a greatexperience is, I'd say, pretty
different.
Right Like, you know how fastcan we get out of the parking
lot?
You know, I'm just kidding.
Kristina Heney (06:58):
No, but seriously, that people think
that shows how far we have to goin the totality of the touch
points of a fan experience.
It's getting too expensive theactual show or product or game
itself that we have to thinkabout over all of those
experiences, and it could begood business to do that.
Damian Bazadona (07:19):
Yeah, it's fair .
Maureen Andersen (07:22):
Yeah, it's that the relationship between
fan and venue is so interestingand how it's really kind of
morphed and changed in the lastyou know decade or so, and I
mean at lightning speed.
You know, I live here in PalmSprings and my home arena is
Accusure Arena.
Thank you so much.
And when I go, the experiencethat I'm kind of fed up to, what
(07:42):
is given to me, is different bywhat kind of event.
So when I go with a seniorfriend of ours who is a season
ticket holder to the Firebirdshockey team, that experience is
different than what I'm givenwhen I go to Earth, Wind, Fire
or, you know, to Paul McCartney.
So that has changed.
(08:02):
But the real question is thatwe still, of course, in that fan
venue experience, have a longway to go because, like you said
, it's reducing friction.
What are we lagging behind on?
What are we missing?
Kristina Heney (08:16):
in a broad sense , is missing higher level
expectations from the fans.
Here.
Their fans are spending atremendous amount of money, and
more and more every day to seetheir favorite show, their
favorite artist, their favoriteteam.
And yet venues havehistorically been pretty
(08:40):
consistent, 365 days a year,regardless of what's been in the
venue itself.
And using that brand knowledge,that brand ownership, knowledge
of what the fan, you know whothe fan is and what do they want
and how are they connected to X, y and Z artist or team.
The venue has to use that sameknowledge to adapt to their
offerings.
Is there going to be a lot ofpeople driving or are folks
(09:00):
going to take public transit?
Are there going to be a lot ofpeople driving or are folks
going to take public transit?
Are there going to be a lot ofUber drop-offs?
All of those things should bethought of just from every
touchpoint along the fanexperience.
It should be curated to theaudience in the building.
And I think 10 years ago theinnovation was VIP right, where
(09:22):
guests who had more money couldhave the best parking spots,
could cut the line, for you knowthat's otherwise seen as
inconvenient, could maybe have aspecial club to hang out in and
you know and have special seats, but now what many venues are
considering and what OBG istrying to do is to say no, no,
no.
It should be where every fanexperience has less friction and
(09:47):
has more curated offerings andthere should be a sense of
premium for all, where, whetheror not you want a
membership-only speakeasyexperience and you want to come
early and have that and staylate and have a post-party, or
you want a great hot dog and youknow a cold beer and cold draft
beer, those two experiences canexist and should, and it's good
(10:10):
business for venues to startcurating their experiences for
the guests in the building onany given night or day, great
ideas, curating the experiencefor every fan.
Maureen Andersen (10:21):
And you know it is different and every human
being and I'm different, as acustomer as well, to what the
event and who I'm with and andtime of day and time of year and
all kinds of things that gointo that as well, and you know,
always give me good food andalways give me, you know, a
private bathroom and parking.
Um, that's my curation.
Um, I am curious also is thatyou know, when you work with
(10:44):
Cirque and Madison SquareGardens, these are big, storied
venues with decades worth ofstory and history that you know
to tell and that comes kind of apackage storytelling.
It makes it easier.
The platform is already there.
Oakview Group has, you know, somany new buildings coming into
market and you know Akershireand Co-op and Moody and Climate
(11:16):
Pledge.
How do you bring a newnarrative or a new mindset to
sports venue and marketing whenyou're starting at ground zero
with a story?
How do you evolve that?
Kristina Heney (11:23):
It's all about the community.
You know, every community weenter has its own
characteristics, its ownpersonality, its own traditions,
its own, you know,sustainability challenges, its
own diversity, and how wereflect and how, as any venue
whether or not we can build itfrom scratch or we operate it on
(11:47):
behalf of others how weapproach that has to be, um, in
keeping with the, the community,right.
So, because it is oftentimes agathering place, uh, and
hopefully a happy gatheringplace of the of the community
and and therefore it shouldreflect it.
So that's where we start, andyou'll see us working with local
(12:09):
sponsors.
We'll have naming contests forvarious teams, et cetera, like
we did for Climate Pledge Arenaand the Seattle Cracking, and
all of those are ways tointegrate and build those
stories.
And then, honestly, we build avenue story, but we also have an
(12:30):
obligation to partner with thebrand owners to make sure that
we're building a fan experiencearound their brand as well.
Maureen Andersen (12:38):
I want to take that one step further and then
I'll put this back over to Peter, but I was curious.
Is that when we were talkingprior, is that you talked about
the empathy for the fans and itis when you're in a community,
is that you're reflecting whatthat community looks like, so
the diversity and looking forways for inclusion, and that
there's there's rooted presenceinside of of a community, and I
(13:01):
see that here in my own with theiceplex and kids and pride fest
and parades and you know, isthat part of the of the, the
focus and the organicness of ofOakview Group.
Kristina Heney (13:16):
Now, it absolutely is.
It's a core principle of oursthat everything about our venue
should reflect the community inwhich we service.
So it starts with the buildingitself feeling organic to the
community if we have theopportunity to build or
(13:36):
refurbish or renovate, orrenovate.
But it starts with hiring thefolks who you are seeing in the
building should reflect thecontent that we're going to have
available, as well as theaudience we're serving.
The content itself, whatcontent we're bringing to the
venue.
Obviously it's good business tobe able to sell tickets back to
(13:56):
Damien and my roots, but thenalso how we're thinking about
being a citizen of the community, and Cirque really taught me
that, even though we weretransient in terms of traveling
around the world, liveexperiences are served so
hyper-locally and so personally.
They could be global brands,but they're experienced in
(14:18):
venues of all sizes around theworld and there's no replicating
that.
And how we engaged in each ofthose communities was um was, I
think, the key to to circ'ssuccess and, and hopefully, the
keto groups as well it's up toyou.
Maureen Andersen (14:38):
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Peter Yagecic (15:13):
I'm going to try to sneak in a couple of audience
questions here real quick andthen I will pitch it back to our
hosts.
This first one I couldn'tresist, because you've all
mentioned parking to some extentin today's conversation already
.
I saw a video not long agoabout how AI robots are being
used to park cars in China.
Has Oakview Group been talkingto any robotics companies to
(15:34):
explore bringing that stateside?
Kristina Heney (15:37):
AI robotics for parking Wow, that I hadn't heard
.
No-transcript, first frictionpoints.
(16:09):
But I would say it doesn't haveto be high tech.
My favorite story about parkingis Disney, where they employ
folks to guest experienced folksto help you find your car after
a long day at the park, whetherit's after fireworks or
whatever it is.
It's been a long day.
You've been there walkingaround all day.
(16:30):
They've got your money.
That you've already experiencedat the park and here they are
spending time making sure thatyou can find your car and get on
your way safely and without anymore friction.
And they do that just bytimestamping, where they're
filling the parking lots at anygiven time.
So they can say to you Peter,well, no problem, we'll help you
(16:50):
out.
About what time did you parktoday?
Oh, I got here at 820 for roaddrop or whatever, and then they
know exactly where you parked.
That was simple, it was justtracking.
A little Excel chart could dothat.
That was simple, it was justtracking.
A little Excel chart could dothat.
And I think that speaks back toMaureen's comment about empathy
, if you think throughout thefan experience, of all of the
(17:11):
potential points where the fancould have friction or the fan
could have an opportunity foroptimized experience and
recognize that each step alongthat way is a part of your
responsibility, then I think youmake those decisions and you
(17:32):
can solve for it in simple oryou can go for the AI robots
Little from column A, littlefrom column B and I do need that
empathy because I neverremember to take the picture of
the sign where I'm parked at Onemore fan question, audience
question that I want to squeezein this one's a little bit
bigger picture.
Peter Yagecic (17:46):
But what is something that's crucially
important to fans, that hassurprised you in the work that
you do with venues or logistics,is anything that sticks out
that you were like oh wow, wedidn't expect that.
Kristina Heney (17:59):
I don't think it's so much what I've learned
that they expect.
It's actually what I've learnedthat you can earn by surprising
them, and that they are readyto engage in venues more and
ready to engage in a broaderexperience if you offer
(18:21):
something compelling.
We've all had the experiencewhere we've been meeting friends
for a concert and we've said,okay, well, where should we have
?
Where should we?
What bar, what restaurantshould we meet up at before?
Right, no one is thinking weshould have a great early night
dinner at the arena.
Right, that's not.
(18:41):
That hasn't really becomesomething expected of clients.
But if you offer it, if youoffer a member-only speakeasy,
like we have in Moody Center orthe Rah-Rah Room, like Phoenix
has, or an opportunity to partyafterwards, like so literally to
take the party into the atriumat Co-op Live, you recognize
(19:03):
that people will stay andcontinue to engage with it.
And you have theseopportunities, step by step, to
broaden the fan experience, tobroaden how they engage with the
wider experience of a show or agame.
If you give them that option.
And I think that's the biggesttakeaway I've had that a lot of
(19:24):
our innovations have just comefrom looking around the corner
and saying, hey, why do we haveto settle for a bad glass of
wine.
Why can't we offer a greatglass of wine?
Why can't we offer multipletypes of draft beer?
And, I think, why can't weoffer the best hot dog?
Why can't we offer a best hotdog?
Why can't we offer, you know, amember, only dining experiences
(19:45):
?
And when we do do that, it'sfolks engage and, and I think
that's the, that's the biggestlearning, necessarily, that I've
had at ok group, um, and I'mlooking, I'm looking forward to
seeing what's next, becausesky's the limit when you think,
when you take that perspective,yeah, what's the?
How do you think what's next?
Because sky's the limit whenyou take that perspective.
Damian Bazadona (20:03):
Yeah, what's the how do you think, what's the
secret I guess I don't know ifyou'd say a secret or what's the
recipe, I think, for making avenue itself like a destination
for fandom.
And how do you think aboutmeasuring success?
Now, I recognize this is not alazy question where it's like
well, how do you measure success?
I find it probably complicatedbecause, particularly on some
(20:24):
things people might expect likepeople, it's all an expectations
game of what their expectationsare going in.
So I'm just curious how youthink about how you measure.
Are we being effective at whatwe're trying to do?
Kristina Heney (20:36):
Well, I don't think anyone's nailed it, but I
do think you know, from ourperspective, the question I want
to win every given, I want towin every time it's asked is
where will I have the bestexperience?
And that's agents and bookersthinking about where they're
going to route their artists tofans saying, if I have a choice
(20:58):
of where to see my favoriteartist or obviously less choice
when it comes to teams is, um, Iwill go here.
We had that at the gardenbecause people, we had this aura
that folks were going to bringtheir a game to the garden and
and they were going to bringtheir a list you know, surprise
guests and there was going to besomething special.
That happens at the garden.
(21:18):
But for other venues around theworld it can be as easy as
where's the best food?
Where is there no problem withparking?
All of the things we've talkedabout.
If you put them together, theycreate a better experience and
we want to win that argumentevery time.
What's the best experience?
And from KPIs, it can beeverything from nps scores.
(21:39):
At circ we had, um, the npsscore for the show or the game.
Well, in the case, the show, uh, but we also had the cx nps.
So what were the frictionpoints or the best attributes of
the fan experience outside ofthe big top?
And so we measured that fromand obviously they they, you
(22:02):
know vary widely between a bigtop that was literally popped up
in the middle of nowhere to, uh, an arena or an established
theater or something like that.
But we also can look at thenumbers right.
Where is your per cap increasingbecause you've offered a
different variety of whatever?
Where's your um?
What's the feedback from theartists that they're comfortable
(22:24):
and their teams are comfortablestaying at your venues?
We actually spend a ton of timeand effort on the backstage
experience that fans never see.
So we have artist compoundswhere they can hang out with
their family.
We've got workout rooms.
We have all of this backstagestage at more and more venues
that um, so that we can enticethe artists to feel comfortable
(22:45):
staying at, staying andperforming at our venues.
So it's it's a holistic view ofit and it's not perfect
definitely a science in the art.
Damian Bazadona (22:54):
But if you focus on winning that question
every time, I think you'll beheaded in the right direction
yeah, no, it's interesting, yournote, just like you sort of
said, no one's figured it out inthe sense of like it's
complicated, it's extremelycomplicated.
Yeah, maureen.
Maureen Andersen (23:08):
Hey, I'm very interested in you know so many
venues is that you know theticket itself is the key that
unlocks to.
You know who that person is,and behind all of that is this
huge, vast amount of data thatyou have access to about the
person and what theirpreferences and stuff are.
Are there innovations, eitherdigitally or physically, inside
(23:29):
the venue or the event space,that you're excited about you
know?
For example, is you know, arethere more kiosk kind of things?
Can I walk up to a kiosk and,you know, insert my credit card
and get a bottle of DomaineChandon, you know, and just take
it away without having to gothrough?
You know a maze of people, ortalk to anybody, or you know
grab and go.
(23:50):
I know all that stuff is prettyestablished stuff, but is there
something that's new andexciting about engaging
digitally or physically withthem, with the data especially?
Kristina Heney (24:00):
Absolutely.
I mean, I mean first party datahas been the holy grail for
decades and live entertainment,uh, has the amazing good fortune
of of having always had firstparty data through the ticketing
process.
And you know we've always saidfor with data comes
responsibility, and if and we'vealways believed, at least in my
(24:22):
teams, that if we had the data,it was our responsibility to
act with it, to act with empathy, to figure out how we can
improve the experience for thatguest.
And that absolutely shouldtranslate into the venue
experience and reducing friction.
And the most notable example isIntuit Dome, where your ticket
(24:45):
is connected to an app and theyuse facial recognition to smooth
the lines at entry.
You can walk into a kiosk whereyou can get your bottle of Dom
Perignon.
Maybe I'd have to check thebranding and the sponsorship at
Intuit Dome, but you can at ourvenues and you can just walk
through using your face as yourID and what does it do?
(25:09):
It gets you what you want withless friction and back to your
seat as fast as you can to enjoythe experience you paid for.
So I think the key there isadoption and with any new
technology, it's getting folksused to using it and then you
(25:35):
know getting it scalable right.
So how more and more venues canadopt similar technology, so
that that becomes the norm.
Maureen Andersen (25:39):
Well, and that brings up the really great
question is that you have venuesthat are servicing millions of
fans a year around the globe.
Is that?
How do you balance thatpersonalization and scale?
I mean, does AI?
Is that figuring into what'sgoing to be happening?
Kristina Heney (25:57):
definitely data plays a massive role.
Machine learning AI has beenused extensively, but I would
say, simplest.
Maureen Andersen (26:05):
Without the huge investment of data in AI,
it starts with one fan at a timeand one community at a time In
one venue and one you know, andif the event is right and the
experience is right, I love thatone sound Down to one person.
Thank you, Yep.
That's how you win.
I love that one sound Down toone person.
Thank you, Yep.
That's how you win.
I'll give it back to Peter forsome questions.
Peter Yagecic (26:31):
Yeah, I want to try to squeeze in two more quick
audience questions, which Ithink this one is slightly
relevant to where you guys werejust talking.
Earlier you talked a little bitabout your work with Cirque du
Soleil and internationalaudiences.
How are international fansdifferent from US fans and how
are they the same?
And I wonder if it kind ofconnects to that technology?
(26:51):
Is there a translationexpectation or is there anything
around international audiencesthat you've discovered?
Kristina Heney (27:03):
audiences that you've discovered.
Yeah, absolutely.
This is one of my favoritediscoveries of working with
Cirque du Soleil that this oneiconic brand could be translated
differently in multiplecultures.
And that's what it is.
It's that the fan is bringingtheir culture to the experience
and that's what makes itdifferent and that's what makes
it unique.
All of their fans andtraditions and cultural
references are so different.
(27:25):
In mexico, where people bring,you know, where their average
ticket is like five or six perorder, because they want to come
with a family, they want tocome with multiple generations,
versus uk, where we might playit, you know, at a royal albert
hall, where it's you know,they're looking for a facade, a
show, this epic, whereas inChina, for example, they're
(27:47):
looking for huge andlarger-than-life and
high-technology uses.
The fan is bringing somethingdifferent to the brand, but the
brand is the same and I thinkthat was pretty fascinating for
me.
I also think, well, cirque wasa bit different in that I called
(28:10):
their language Cirque-ish,because literally, the Cirque
show was created to beborderless and to travel across
borders around the worldseamlessly, and that's why the
language is sort of a mishmash,and so it works really well for
that.
But I think that the most recentexample is Taylor Swift.
(28:30):
I mean I loved listening to.
Well, first there was thedancer that would always have a
different saying and there was adifferent translation for a
line.
We're never getting backtogether, right, everyone on the
screen knows what I'm talkingabout, but there was that one
line where they would articulatedifferent based on the culture
(28:53):
and the language they were in.
But there was also theexperiences that the culture
brought to.
Like Argentina versus Australiaversus the UK.
It was wildly different interms of what the fans brought
and how they incorporated theirculture into the same concert
that was touring the world, andI think that I mean that's why
(29:17):
Taylor was so brilliant, right,she recognized that and embraced
it, and I think that's whatmore and more brands around the
world will do as brands goglobal.
Peter Yagecic (29:27):
What can't we learn from Taylor Swift?
That's my motto.
Hey, seriously, last audiencequestion and then I'll kick it
back to Damien.
The conversation aroundnext-level fan experiences has
made me think about how airportshave tried to up their game
when it comes to the flyerexperience.
Can entertainment learn fromvenues like, say, the new
(29:47):
LaGuardia, or vice versa?
Kristina Heney (29:50):
Yeah, I mean, I am not ashamed to say that I
will eat at the United Club atNewark Airport now, which I
don't think I ever, ever, everwould have said.
I know folks who love the hotelexperience at JFK, you know.
So it was Terminal 5, right.
So, yes, I've always been a bigbeliever in live entertainment,
benchmarking their learningsagainst other industries that
(30:14):
are doing something better.
Damien and I always talk aboutthat when it about digital and
use of behavioral insights todrive digital adoption and
efficacy.
But I would also say venuesthemselves can look at
non-traditional liveentertainment to find learnings.
Golf, live golf.
We were talking about someSavannah Bananas in our prep F1.
(30:39):
They are festivals.
In our prep um f1.
They are festivals.
These are all non-traditionalentertainment options in
non-traditional venues that arecreating unbelievable
experiences that are almost, youknow, agnostics of whether or
not there's walls, uh, and anactual building itself, and what
you can learn from that.
(30:59):
What we've been learning fromthat at Opie Group is pretty
eye-opening how you can thinkabout the experience starting
outside the walls and what doesa premium experience for all
look like?
It spans the gamut and there'sa lot of opportunity there as
well, in addition to LaGuardiaMaybe not LaGuardia yet.
But I think the other pointthat I would make is that you
(31:21):
also, the tipping point is whentravelers or fans you know, who
have visited multiple airportsor venues, start recognizing
when choice is not available andquality is not available.
And then the expectation gameis raised.
And I think we're seeing thatat airports, thankfully for
(31:43):
folks who travel as much as I do, but now we're also starting to
see it at venues, and maybe wehave for the last couple years,
and that's a real opportunitywhen fans start saying no, I do
want more for my experience, mydollar, yeah and I.
Peter Yagecic (31:55):
I love that you mentioned the savannah bananas.
We have emily cole who's goingto be joining us in December
December 9th on a fandomunpacked, so we'll be sending
out information on that, but,damian, I want to I am a part of
her fandom.
Me too, Damian.
I want to kick it back to youfor our last question.
Damian Bazadona (32:11):
Yes, I got last question, so let me, before I
ask the last question, I justwant to say Tina, thank.
I really believe you have anextremely unique perspective of
all these years and watching thework you do and how you do it
masterfully not just blowingsmoke, truly and you're always
willing to share your wisdom andI genuinely appreciate it.
You've got a lot going on overthere.
I can tell We've had a blast,yes, so what is something as the
(32:36):
folks listening in, we've gotpeople from from all walks of
life of live entertainment.
Our whole job is engaging fansand engaging audiences.
What's something you thinkmarketers or producers of
content, whatever it might be,most often misunderstand about
live audiences today that youmaybe consistently see happening
(32:57):
over and over again, that youmight, you know, share your
wisdom on?
Kristina Heney (33:01):
This is what I say to young marketers or
marketers starting out in liveentertainment specifically.
Because live entertainment isso personal and visceral,
there's a risk that marketerscould focus on the show or the
game, and what I tell them isdon't focus on the show or the
(33:23):
game, focus on the fans.
Watch the fans.
They will tell you everythingyou need to know about if you're
winning in the game of fanexperience and how you're going
to create repeat and loyalty anddrive that, and don't just sit
in the seats.
Walk outside and see what theexperience is in the parking
area and on the line to get in.
(33:44):
Stand at the bathroom and seeif there are bathroom lines.
How long is it taking someone toget back to their seats, to get
a bottle of water or somethingto eat?
All of those things are theresponsibility of a marketer and
a live experience.
And because live entertainmentis so visceral and personal, you
could really make the mistakeof thinking your experience or
(34:09):
your view of the product or theartist or whatever is that of
the masses, and in actuality, itcould be the other way around.
So I think that's usually myfeedback Watch the fans.
Peter Yagecic (34:27):
That's going to do it for this episode of Fandom
Unpacked the podcast.
If you liked what you heard,please be sure to leave us a
review on Apple Podcasts.
Find out how to join us livefor an upcoming recording at
SituationLivecom slash fan.
We'll see you next time, truebelievers.
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