August 6, 2025 • 31 mins
Ever felt like sports media wasn't speaking your language? Jacie deHoop, co-founder of The Gist, is changing that conversation by creating content for "GISTers" – predominantly female, millennial and Gen Z sports fans who love the game but haven't felt fully welcomed by traditional coverage.
When deHoop and her co-founders launched The Gist, they faced significant skepticism. Critics claimed women weren't interested in sports and there wasn't a viable business model. Fast forward to today, with over one million newsletter subscribers and a 46% open rate, those critics have been proven spectacularly wrong. What The Gist recognized that others missed was the massive untapped potential in serving fans who love sports but don't necessarily fit the traditional mold.
What makes The Gist's approach particularly powerful is authenticity. They don't treat women's sports or female fans as a diversity project or marketing opportunity, but as a legitimate business venture with tremendous growth potential. As deHoop puts it, underserved audiences shouldn't be dismissed as "niche" – smart businesses should examine the actual addressable market size, spending power, and influence these fans wield.
Whether you're a sports industry professional or simply a fan who's felt overlooked by mainstream coverage, this conversation offers a fascinating glimpse into how The Gist is transforming sports media by centering those who've traditionally been left on the sidelines.
Recorded Tuesday, August 5th, 2025
Hosts: Damian Bazadona, CEO & Founder, Situation & Lisa Cecchini, Managing Partner, Situation
Guest: Jacie deHoop, Co-Founder, The Gist
Producer: Peter Yagecic, Innovation Advisor, Situation
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Peter Yagecic (00:05):
You're listening to Fandom Unpacked the podcast,
an audio version of our regularlive stream series where we
unpack modern fandom with someof the brightest minds in sports
and entertainment.
I'm producer Peter Yagisic, andjoining me for today's Q&A from
Situation are CEO and founderDamian Bazzadana and managing
partner Lisa Cicchini.
Founder Damian Bazzadana andmanaging partner Lisa Cicchini.
(00:27):
Our guest today is JC DeHoop,co-founder of the Gist, the
fan-first sports media brandthat's shaking up the
male-dominated sports industry.
Damian Bazadona (00:34):
Here's Damian to get us started.
Let's do it, JC, big fan workyou're doing.
You and your team are doing it.
That's awesome.
How would you describe a jister?
Who are they and why do theylove what you're doing?
Jacie deHoop (00:46):
Yeah, a jister is someone we define as someone
who's really interested insports but may not fit the mold
of the kind of more traditionalsports fan.
It's really a fan that's beenhistorically underserved and
that, in my opinion, uh,presents a really huge growth
opportunity for the entiresports ecosystem.
(01:07):
I think there's this kind ofperiphery of fans that haven't
necessarily felt like sports isfor them, and if we can convert
these fans to feel seen and tostart to engage, follow sports
by tickets, by merch, the entiresports world from both the
women's and men's sportsperspective, can really benefit.
Demographics-wise, a jister forus is really typically female.
(01:30):
Female identifying is reallymost of our audience, but we
have a lot of male jisters too,millennial or Gen Z, so kind of
younger, next generation ofsports fans, and typically it's
going to be based in a majorsports market as well In New
York and LA, chicago, dallas areall really popular for us, but
(01:51):
that's pretty broad, I would say.
Ultimately, what makes a jisterand why they choose us and love
the jist, is because they oftenhaven't felt like sports is
necessarily for them, theyhaven't felt represented in the
sports world, they haven't beencentered in sports and have
often really been anafterthought, and I think many
(02:12):
people have seen kind of theshrink it and pink it effect
that has taken hold in sportsover the last few years or what
have you, and I think the otherpiece of it is that these are
fans that are busy but stillwant to know what's going on.
Um, and they, they really wantsomething that's going to meet
them where they are, to keepthem in the loop of what's
happening, but might notnecessarily sit down watch the
(02:34):
entire broadcast kind of thingtoo.
A lot of success and growth hasbeen because we've really
focused on having trust andauthenticity with our audience
and with our gisters.
It really feels like thiscommunity around sports and
again, I think for many folkswho haven't necessarily felt
(02:54):
like sports has been for them,that's really, really valuable.
Damian Bazadona (02:59):
Tell me a little bit about the background
of the gist.
And I think there's so much, asyou said, there's a huge
opportunity.
Why was there such a hugeopportunity, I suppose, and
really, what was the initialresponse that you got when you
first I mean, it was 2017, 2018,I believe is when this all sort
of came about what was theinitial response you got as you
(03:19):
started telling folks this isthe idea.
Jacie deHoop (03:22):
Yeah.
So 2017 was when we first myco-founders and I first came up
with the kind of concept andidea for the GIST, and while
that really isn't that long agoseven years ago it was actually
a very, very different time, Iwould say.
The growth of women's sports,the growth of just like in
stardom around female athletesand just the whole conversation
(03:46):
around women being part of thesports world really wasn't where
it is today.
And so when we first came upwith the concept, it was really
born out of a pain point thatmyself and my co-founders
experienced ourselves in justloving sports, but not
necessarily feeling like itloves you back, not feeling like
we had friends and particularlyother female friends, to talk
(04:07):
about sports with, to connectthrough sports with, to watch
sports with, and so we wanted tocreate this community that was
kind of the exact opposite ofthat kind of boys club mentality
around sports, and so we cameup with the idea very
organically and, again, reallyjust out of a pain point we
experienced ourselves in 2017and then launched the company in
2018.
(04:28):
And the initial feedback wasvery mixed.
I would say it was interesting,because I think that there was
a lot of interest in what wewere building, because I think a
lot of people in sports whetherthat's from a media perspective
, from a league team propertiesperspective has wanted to grow
with women as it wanted tobetter understand that female
(04:50):
fan and does see that as atremendous growth opportunity.
But almost in the same breath,we got a lot of pushback.
Um, we had heard a lot of likewe've tried that before.
Um, women just aren'tinterested in sports.
Um, we heard a lot of feedbackthat was just like women's
sports just is, doesn't have theum, really there isn't a
(05:13):
business case for it.
Like it really it came down tolike there isn't and this isn't
an investable opportunitybecause it's not large enough.
Um, I would say, fast forward tonow.
That conversation has changed Alot of our, the early folks
that we spoke with, who passedon investing in us and what have
you are seeing that there hasbeen this tremendous growth and
(05:34):
this really big cultural shiftover the last few years too when
it comes to women's sports andfemale fandom.
But in those early days it wasactually it was a really
different time which, again,it's not that long ago, but we
have to remember this was kindof we launched before COVID.
We launched before the CaitlinClark effect.
Like the WNBA now is absolutelymassive, like a Women's World
(05:55):
Cup is a huge, huge event.
But that really wasn't the caseeven you know, five, six, seven
years ago, and so we got a lotof pushback in our early days.
Damian Bazadona (06:05):
I think your growth is incredible and it must
bring you such joy when you seesome of these folks from years
ago when they said this isn't aninvestable opportunity, it's
just not big enough of a marketto see the success you've had.
Maybe joy is the wrong word,but a little bit of.
I told you so, but you know.
Jacie deHoop (06:21):
It's fun.
It's a little fun.
Damian Bazadona (06:26):
There you go, Lisa.
I know you got some questions.
Lisa Cecchini (06:28):
Yeah, and JC, thank you so much for being here
.
I mean, obviously, a topicthat's very important to me.
For those that don't know me,I'm the huge like sports theater
hybrid in the office.
I love both so much.
My first question is about theintro that Peter gave straight
off your website.
You're described as fan firstand I'd love to know a little
(06:48):
bit more about what fan firstmeans to you.
Is that about, like, how you'rethinking about content, how
you're curating content?
I feel like a lot of sportscenter might say that they're
thinking about the fan first,but how do you really feel like
you're differentiating as afan-first sports property?
Jacie deHoop (07:06):
Yeah, I think for us it really means centering the
gesture in every decision thatwe make and in everything that
we do.
So certainly from a contentperspective, but from a revenue
and branded perspective as well,even from an ops and data
perspective.
I think the key difference forus versus a more kind of
traditional sports media companyis that we really started the
(07:29):
company as fans ourselves.
We don't have a background inmedia, in sports, in journalism,
which certainly has itsdownfalls Sometimes.
We have had to learn a lot.
It has certainly been alearning curve, but I think it
also means that we approacheverything a little bit
differently and with like whatis the solution for the fan?
(07:50):
Like what would?
What do we actually want as asreally our core demo that we
serve.
I think that the gist is reallybeing born out of a personal
pain point and we don'tnecessarily have the experience,
the expertise, the authority tosay, like you know, this is how
it's always been done, this isjust the way that we do it, this
is what works.
(08:11):
It's a little bit different and, again, like we think of it as
very fan first, because we'vereally been built, I think, in a
relatively grassroots way andfrom just really what we felt
like was missing as fans.
Lisa Cecchini (08:25):
Awesome and I know also one of your goals is
to cover men and women's sportsequally, which, of course, is a
differentiator in the sportsspace.
Is there also a goal to try andmaybe move some audiences that
maybe didn't think they wereinto women's sports but try and
convert them?
Or is that just kind of like anice ripple effect?
(08:45):
But it's not really somethingthat you're trying to do is to
convert people who maybe wererejecters of a certain type of
sport or a certain genderedsport, that kind of thing.
Jacie deHoop (08:54):
Right, yeah, I would say yes, that is a big
part of our strategy and what wetry to achieve.
I think and I'm glad youtouched on this, Lisa, because I
think that, as there's beenthis tremendous growth in
women's sports over the last fewyears, I think that female fans
equaling women's sports is abit really like reductive, and I
(09:16):
think that those two are oftenreally conflated.
Women love women's and men'ssports, and men love women's and
men's sports, and men lovewomen's and men's sports.
In fact, male fans are reallywhat's driving a lot of the
growth in women's sports rightnow.
And so, yes, we are really allabout bringing someone into the
sports world, whether that's thewomen's sports world or the
(09:36):
men's sports world, and makingyou feel welcome and falling in
love with it.
Um, that might mean discoveringa totally new sport that, just
like you, hadn't been on yourradar before.
Like we have so many jisters whomaybe have historically been a
huge NBA fan and they just don'thave the time to be watching
everything and watching sportsnight every day and what have
(09:57):
you.
So they subscribe to the gistand then, through our content,
they're like oh, I'm getting allof these updates on what's
happening in the W and it is sodramatic and so fun and I'm
starting to fall in love with itand follow it and what have you
?
But then we also have a lot ofnewer sports and I think that
you know the W is really pushingthe forefront of the growth of
women's sports.
But we have jisters who have,who come to us for, like,
(10:21):
volleyball, softball there's somany other sports that jisters
have become a fan of through us.
I think that we've become thisreally great kind of entry point
and that is agnostic of genderand I think that just generally
making again those fans thathave felt kind of on the
periphery feel more included isso essential to just growing
(10:43):
fandom overall, and I thinkthat's certainly men as fans of
women's sports and women as fansof men's sports.
I think it goes both ways.
Lisa Cecchini (10:52):
Yeah, I definitely want to give a shout
out to the men or people thatidentify as male out there that
are fans of female sports.
I went to the 2019 Women'sWorld Cup in France and I got
emotional seeing men wearingjerseys with women's last names
on the back, as I just.
It just was so meaningful andpowerful to me seeing people
(11:17):
walk around France proudlywearing these jerseys with their
whatever, whatever country itwas from, so it was awesome.
Jacie deHoop (11:24):
Yeah, 100%.
And I want to call out too that, like for women's sports to
grow, we need male fans.
That is just.
I think it's important for thatto just be really explicit and
to be recognized because, again,they're actually currently the
the largest growth driver um ofwomen's sports has been, has
(11:44):
been, amongst men, and so Ithink that it's a really good
call out.
And, again, I think, on the onthe other hand, from men's
sports perspective, there are somany female fans out there,
myself included that loveeverything wmba, but I'm a huge
NFL fan and, again, that's beenmore of an audience that I think
has been really historicallyunderserved, in that there's
just so much growth potential incentering them a little bit
(12:07):
more, making them feel includedand part of it.
Lisa Cecchini (12:09):
Absolutely.
I don't think people realizethat of the four major male
sports leagues in the UnitedStates, that the distribution is
, at the lowest, 30% female fansat the lowest.
Sometimes it's closer to 50,which it is in the NFL.
So it's like there is this hugegroup that has not historically
been as recognized.
So yeah, absolutely.
(12:29):
I'd love to also talk aboutyounger fans, because you
mentioned that in who a jisteris that you do have a lot of
younger fans and just what aresome of the gaps that you also
seeing that, what younger fanswant to see and how the gist is
helping to fulfill what they'relooking for in sports coverage
yeah, so our jisters arepredominantly millennials and
(12:53):
gen z, so we we think a lotabout this kind of younger fan.
Jacie deHoop (12:57):
I think of it as really like this next generation
of fans, and there's been quitea bit of research that has
indicated that younger fans, andparticularly Gen Z, isn't as
interested in sports, which Ithink has sent the industry into
a tailspin in some ways.
But I I really vehementlydisagree.
We have found that there is aton of interest amongst Gen Zs
(13:20):
and just that kind of youngermillennial as well in sports,
but it does show up in differentways than it did for their
parents and I think that has alot to do with shifting sports
media consumption and there'svarious factors that play into
that.
But I think a few of the keythings that we have found
younger fans are most interestedin and engaging with are the
(13:43):
athletes.
I think that has been just ahuge growth driver for women's
sports, especially these femaleathletes being so much bigger
than the sport that they play.
Like really transcending theirsport has been really amazing to
see and of course, social mediaplays a massive part in that.
But it's male athletes as wellthat Gen Z is following and kind
(14:04):
of falling in love with andthey're going to be following
their career and what they're upto outside of the league and
the team and they're going to betraveling around with them.
I think is really important forjust people to realize.
I think, like they, theathletes really are the biggest
growth driver and are reallywhat is driving that next
generation to pay attention tothe league.
(14:27):
I would also say that there'sthis interest in just like
storytelling beyond the scores.
I don't think that's very novelor cutting edge.
It's kind of like yes,obviously, but I think we're
seeing it even more so with thisnext generation.
I think we know attention spansare much lower and that the
(14:48):
scores and just what happened inthe game is not engaging enough
.
I think that this nextgeneration is looking for like
this.
So what Like?
How does this intersect withculture?
How does this play into thebigger picture of this season?
And so we're finding thatdefinitely providing more of
this storytelling and having anactual narrative and theme
(15:09):
around what's happening, whetherit's in a single game or a
season or the playoff run orwhat have you, that's really
what's drawing fans in and Ithink, especially newer fans.
That's what's making someonewho's maybe a more casual fan
actually start paying attentionand following a little bit more
closely.
I would also say like, from asports media consumption
(15:30):
perspective, is really likemeeting her where she already is
.
We find that this nextgeneration isn't necessarily
going to download a new app orsubscribe to something new, and
so meeting her on those existingchannels is really important.
Peter Yagecic (15:46):
Fandom Unpacked is brought to you by Situation,
an award-winning marketingagency built for live
entertainment that champions thepower of unforgettable shared
experiences around the world.
We offer full marketing andcreative services for
experience-based brands in liveentertainment, attractions,
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Check us out atSituationInteractivecom.
(16:06):
Now back to our Q&A.
Lisa Cecchini (16:12):
I know we have some questions popping in, so,
peter, I'd love to turn it overto you.
Peter Yagecic (16:29):
Yeah, I'd love to turn it over to you.
Could you talk a little bitabout the different types of
content that are differentiatingyou from some of your
competition, or can you talkabout the kinds of things that
you see that are really working,whether it's interviews with
players on the podcast or justdifferent types of media that
you see is really working forthe GIST?
Jacie deHoop (16:51):
Yeah, yeah, I mean touching on that.
I think sports mediaconsumption and just media
consumption in general hasshifted quite a bit.
I think we used to be it usedto be all about the live
broadcast and live sports willalways be aren't watching live
sports and aren't watching thebroadcast.
Some of them are going to bewatching highlights on a channel
(17:21):
like a YouTube or on socialsand what have you, but they are
scrolling in different placesand so again, when you're trying
to engage with that peripheralfan, there's a few different
channels that we find and kindof formats that we find have
worked best.
There's a few differentchannels that we find and kind
of formats that we find haveworked best.
Our newsletter, an emailnewsletter, has really been our
signature channel from day one.
(17:42):
The very first night we came upwith the concept of the gist.
We wanted to start sending anewsletter.
We have a lot of corporate kindof gisters who are checking
their inbox incessantly, and Ithink that the newsletter is a
really interesting way to buildthat feeling of community.
There's a level of frequency toit.
We have a 46% open rate.
That's over double industryaverage and you know, I think
(18:04):
that is a channel that is notthe most sexy or cutting edge or
what have you Like.
It's very simple, but it hasallowed us to build that really,
really strong relationship andtrust with our gisters.
I would say our social channelsand by that I mean like an
Instagram, a TikTok arefoundational, super, super
important to a company like usas well.
I don't think that's anysurprise.
(18:26):
I would say that we think ofour socials as more of that kind
of like discovery channel,though it's not where we build
as much of that communityrelationship.
It's a little bit moredifficult to do on socials.
You're so at the whim of thealgorithms and what have you,
but a lot of gisters discover usthrough socials and they're
absolutely foundational.
I wouldn't say that theinterview style athlete
(18:49):
interview style is necessarilysomething that always hits.
I think it can, but it reallydepends on the athlete we found,
what their story is and theirpersonality, like how they're
performing.
There's a lot of differentfactors at play.
I wouldn't say that those kindsof athlete interviews are
necessarily a silver bullet thatalways work.
But I will touch on our podcastbecause I think that it's been
(19:11):
interesting to see how that ourpodcast kind of listenership has
evolved over the years and Ithink our podcast listeners are
highly, highly engaged.
Where the newsletter hascertainly a certain level of
engagement we have over amillion subscribers there.
Our podcast is a lot smallerbut those that listen to the
podcast and have been around fora while feel so tied to our
(19:32):
community.
And again, we don't necessarilydo interview style content
there, but it's more liketelling those athletes stories
and providing a little bit moreof that contextual storytelling
on the pod that I think thatformat is just really conducive
to a little bit more depth andcontext.
That is very difficult toachieve in a very short
(19:54):
newsletter.
That's very quippy.
Peter Yagecic (19:56):
Well, I'm going to sneak in one more audience
question before I kick it backto Lisa.
Are there any headlines or bigstories in the past few years
that you feel perfectlypersonified as just a previously
underserved perspective onsports, that have helped you
achieve liftoff?
Anything that sticks out.
Jacie deHoop (20:14):
There are so many.
Anything that sticks out Hmm,there are so many.
The one headline or kind ofmoment that I think shifted the
concept of the gist to being alittle bit more mainstream was
actually Serena Williams in herretirement.
I think that there was a lot ofintersections.
Like, serena Williams is justsuch a huge superstar again, is
(20:37):
that kind of athlete thattranscends the sport, has like
just so much personality, somuch business and commerce
around her.
I think her pregnancy, her kindof retirement tour, like that
last US Open run wasa, really itwas like such an amazing moment
(20:58):
for just like women's sports.
And I think tennis is aninteresting one where we've seen
a lot of that work happen wayback in the day with Billie Jean
King, so that women's tennis isat the place that it is now.
And I think just seeingeverybody talking about Serena
Williams and her retirement andwhat that meant for the sport of
tennis and what that meant forwomen's sports overall, I
(21:19):
noticed that that was a reallyinteresting shift.
I was in New York at the timeat the Open, so I think I was
like really in that hubbub.
And then the other kind of it'snot necessarily a headline, but
I would say.
The Olympics in general areanother really great example
where women's and men's sportsare more on that level playing
field.
This last Paris Olympics wasthe first that we had gender
(21:40):
equity and the storylines thatcome out of the Olympic Games
where again there's a little bitmore of that level playing
field and everyone's coming inas a newer fan and not knowing
the ins and outs of a lot ofthose sports.
Lisa Cecchini (21:51):
That is a really amazing event for us where we
find that our coverage ourcontent, our way of thinking
about sports really transcendsand reaches that kind of other
level, either contentprogramming or anything.
(22:14):
That was like a big learning orsurprise, because I think most
of our listeners know thatgenerally about the shift of
coverage that happened justorganically at first and then
the explosion that kind of justcame quickly after.
Jacie deHoop (22:30):
Yeah, I would say from our perspective, we didn't
change much before after duringthe rise of Caitlin Clark,
because I think our content hasbeen a real inflection point
where all of a sudden, a lotmore people have been paying
attention and we've certainlyseen that has been a shift.
(23:04):
I think the macro environmenthas really changed when it comes
to like is this an investableopportunity?
Are we putting brand dollarsagainst women's sports and the
WNBA and I?
That has been a reallysignificant shift in the last
few years with the rise ofCaitlin Clark.
But I would say for us, from acontent perspective, we really
(23:24):
haven't changed much.
We've always covered women'sbasketball very closely.
I think it's actually beeninteresting because we have seen
and this happens in any newspace we've seen a lot of new
entrants and so when we firststarted the GIST, we had no
competition.
You know it was very much so awhite space and people would ask
(23:45):
, like, who are your competitors?
And there really weren't any atthe time.
And that has certainly changed,which is going to happen and
should happen, like we need morecontent, more coverage,
everything and again, whetherthat's around women's sports or
in centering female fans, Ithink that it has been with any
like exponential growthimmediately.
There's also people that arejumping on the opportunity to
(24:07):
make a quick buck, like thatalways happens in business.
And so I think, staying true toour roots we started the gist
serving gisters and also likemaking it known that we have
been here for some time and arenot kind of jumping on that
bandwagon I think is actuallyvery important, and I find that
female fans in particular arevery, very discerning and they
(24:30):
are really paying attention tothe brands that are, in
particular, that are showing upand, you know, actually
investing in the sustainablegrowth of women's sports, versus
doing a quick campaign tocapitalize on some of the
momentum and the headlines thatare happening right now.
And so I think the fact that wehave been in this space and
growing this space for some timegoes a long way with this
(24:52):
audience.
It might not with other fans,but I think for our gisters
that's been a really importantfactor too, as the space has
become a little bit more crowdedand everyone has a little bit
of a different approach toengaging with a moment, like
Caitlin Clark and her fandom.
Lisa Cecchini (25:09):
Awesome.
I have one fun question andthen I will pass it back to
Peter, but on our last FandomUnpacked, we had Nicole from the
US Open, which was a greatconversation, and those of us
that are based in New York,we're all getting excited for
the US Open, which is just threeweeks away.
She had to rightfully dodgethis question because she works
at the US Open, but I'd love toknow who do you like for both
(25:31):
the women's draw and the men'sdraw for the US Open?
Jacie deHoop (25:34):
Oh, okay, I'm a huge Coco golf fan.
I am Canadian, so I would loveLeila Fernandez to just like hit
it out of the water, and shemight.
She has been hitting very well,but I do think what Coco
represents for just the growthof the sport and American fandom
(25:54):
for tennis is really special.
I love the way she plays andshe did not have a great run at
the Canadian Open that ishappening right now or the
National Bank Open happening inToronto right now, but she will
bounce back and I would put mymoney on Coco if I was a betting
woman.
And on the men's side, I say mylike fan favorite and who I love
(26:18):
to watch is Tiafoe.
I think he just gets to a wholeother level in New York and
feel the energy of the crowd andhim just like.
He is somebody who I think doessuch an amazing job at like
feeding off the crowd's energyand the crowd gives him that
back, and so he would be myfavorite to watch.
Like I really want to get toone of his matches.
Um, I would probably put mymoney on sinner, yeah yeah,
(26:46):
you're like.
Lisa Cecchini (26:47):
You just said all the things that I would have
said.
Peter Yagecic (26:49):
I love it, peter uh, well, okay, then I'm going
to pick a fun audience questionto follow up with that one on
and this is clearly from someonewho's come to a lot of our
fandom unpacks, because it's acallback they said F1 expanded
its fan base with Netflix'sDrive to Survive series and
professional tennis benefitedfrom the movie Challengers
(27:11):
starring Zendaya.
Is there any sport that you'dlike to see?
Get the Hollywood treatmentnext to bring some more
visibility to it.
Jacie deHoop (27:19):
There are so many.
The one that I think should bethe first candidate for a
Netflix docuseries would bevolleyball, or a Netflix
docu-series would be volleyball.
(27:40):
I think that women's collegevolleyball is, like, so exciting
.
I don't know if anyone in theaudience or if you guys have
seen just some of the audiencenumbers in those stadiums, but
it is just crazy.
And I think the athleticismthat you see when watching
volleyball, like I find it to bea really interesting sport.
If you are a more casual fan ordon't have like a background and
(28:01):
don't necessarily like it'svery easy to follow.
And, again, I think that justthe athleticism that's on
display is so fun.
And I would be paying attentionto women's college volleyball
and then that pro pipeline.
I think there's a few leaguesright now that are really taking
off and there's and there's afew, and that's where I think
there'll be probably a naturalconsolidation but, um, you know,
(28:22):
making these women stars andagain like larger than their
sport, um, I think, I thinkvolleyball is very ripe with
opportunity, um, and I think itwill be the next big thing.
Peter Yagecic (28:35):
Awesome, Well, Netflix.
I hope you're listening becauseI've watched that.
Damien, do you have a?
Damian Bazadona (28:39):
question.
Yeah, one more.
You know, I think the wholepoint of Fandom Unpacked is we
bring different industriestogether sports, entertainment,
media space, live events allabout fandom.
You have done something prettyincredible.
You've engaged groups ofaudiences and fans that have not
been spoken to in the way thatthey want to be spoken to.
(29:01):
You create a whole businessaround it.
What would be your advice tothe folks on this call there
could be F1 on this call thetennis folks, all the different
industries represented heretoday.
What would be your advice tothem on what to do or what not
to do in the sports andentertainment media space?
Based on what you've learned,there's a lot.
Jacie deHoop (29:24):
I think the biggest piece would be that
there are a lot of audiences andfans that are considered niche
um or another big objection thatwe've certainly got is that
we've already tried growing withthat fan or with that audience
and I would interrogate that alittle bit further.
I think when we've gotten a lotof this feedback I mentioned in
(29:45):
our early days especially, butI think for those on the call I
would really look at the numbersand think about and really
unpack, like, what is the actualtotal addressable market here?
How much um does this fan spendin other categories?
How much influence do they haveover their household spending
and why are they currentlyunderserved, and you start to
see, I think, a reallytremendous business opportunity.
(30:07):
I think that the incorrect wayof going about it is as a
project, a cause, a diversityquota or project.
I think that it is the rightthing to do to center these
underserved fans or otheraudiences or more diverse fans
and what have you.
I do think it is the rightthing to do, but I think there's
(30:30):
a business opportunity here andI think treating it like that
and investing in it like that isincredibly important.
To kind of taking whether it'swomen's sports or female fandom,
or how this applies to yourindustry to a whole other level.
You need to make the businesscase for it.
I think that's what I wouldleave the group with is kind of
thinking about some of thosespaces, places, fans that may
(30:54):
have been deemed as a niche or asmaller opportunity, and like
actually going through thenumbers and seeing what that
could look like if they arecentered and heard, and like
really what that growth couldlook like.
Damian Bazadona (31:07):
Yeah, no, I totally agree, and as a business
we usually speak of, I don'tthink there's much of a ceiling
for what people will do forthings they're passionate about.
It's just a tremendous businessopportunity.
If you're going to tap itTotally, yeah, thank you, peter,
take it.
Peter Yagecic (31:20):
That's going to do it for this episode of Fandom
Unpacked the podcast.
If you liked what you heard,please be sure to leave us a
review on Apple Podcasts.
Find out how to join us livefor an upcoming recording at
situationlivecom slash fan.
We'll see you next time, truebelievers.
You're listening to Fandom Unpacked the podcast,
an audio version of our regularlive stream series where we
unpack modern fandom with someof the brightest minds in sports
and entertainment.
I'm producer Peter Yagisic, andjoining me for today's Q&A from
Situation are CEO and founderDamian Bazzadana and managing
partner Lisa Cicchini.
Founder Damian Bazzadana andmanaging partner Lisa Cicchini.
(00:27):
Our guest today is JC DeHoop,co-founder of the Gist, the
fan-first sports media brandthat's shaking up the
male-dominated sports industry.
Damian Bazadona (00:34):
Here's Damian to get us started.
Let's do it, JC, big fan workyou're doing.
You and your team are doing it.
That's awesome.
How would you describe a jister?
Who are they and why do theylove what you're doing?
Jacie deHoop (00:46):
Yeah, a jister is someone we define as someone
who's really interested insports but may not fit the mold
of the kind of more traditionalsports fan.
It's really a fan that's beenhistorically underserved and
that, in my opinion, uh,presents a really huge growth
opportunity for the entiresports ecosystem.
(01:07):
I think there's this kind ofperiphery of fans that haven't
necessarily felt like sports isfor them, and if we can convert
these fans to feel seen and tostart to engage, follow sports
by tickets, by merch, the entiresports world from both the
women's and men's sportsperspective, can really benefit.
Demographics-wise, a jister forus is really typically female.
(01:30):
Female identifying is reallymost of our audience, but we
have a lot of male jisters too,millennial or Gen Z, so kind of
younger, next generation ofsports fans, and typically it's
going to be based in a majorsports market as well In New
York and LA, chicago, dallas areall really popular for us, but
(01:51):
that's pretty broad, I would say.
Ultimately, what makes a jisterand why they choose us and love
the jist, is because they oftenhaven't felt like sports is
necessarily for them, theyhaven't felt represented in the
sports world, they haven't beencentered in sports and have
often really been anafterthought, and I think many
(02:12):
people have seen kind of theshrink it and pink it effect
that has taken hold in sportsover the last few years or what
have you, and I think the otherpiece of it is that these are
fans that are busy but stillwant to know what's going on.
Um, and they, they really wantsomething that's going to meet
them where they are, to keepthem in the loop of what's
happening, but might notnecessarily sit down watch the
(02:34):
entire broadcast kind of thingtoo.
A lot of success and growth hasbeen because we've really
focused on having trust andauthenticity with our audience
and with our gisters.
It really feels like thiscommunity around sports and
again, I think for many folkswho haven't necessarily felt
(02:54):
like sports has been for them,that's really, really valuable.
Damian Bazadona (02:59):
Tell me a little bit about the background
of the gist.
And I think there's so much, asyou said, there's a huge
opportunity.
Why was there such a hugeopportunity, I suppose, and
really, what was the initialresponse that you got when you
first I mean, it was 2017, 2018,I believe is when this all sort
of came about what was theinitial response you got as you
(03:19):
started telling folks this isthe idea.
Jacie deHoop (03:22):
Yeah.
So 2017 was when we first myco-founders and I first came up
with the kind of concept andidea for the GIST, and while
that really isn't that long agoseven years ago it was actually
a very, very different time, Iwould say.
The growth of women's sports,the growth of just like in
stardom around female athletesand just the whole conversation
(03:46):
around women being part of thesports world really wasn't where
it is today.
And so when we first came upwith the concept, it was really
born out of a pain point thatmyself and my co-founders
experienced ourselves in justloving sports, but not
necessarily feeling like itloves you back, not feeling like
we had friends and particularlyother female friends, to talk
(04:07):
about sports with, to connectthrough sports with, to watch
sports with, and so we wanted tocreate this community that was
kind of the exact opposite ofthat kind of boys club mentality
around sports, and so we cameup with the idea very
organically and, again, reallyjust out of a pain point we
experienced ourselves in 2017and then launched the company in
2018.
(04:28):
And the initial feedback wasvery mixed.
I would say it was interesting,because I think that there was
a lot of interest in what wewere building, because I think a
lot of people in sports whetherthat's from a media perspective
, from a league team propertiesperspective has wanted to grow
with women as it wanted tobetter understand that female
(04:50):
fan and does see that as atremendous growth opportunity.
But almost in the same breath,we got a lot of pushback.
Um, we had heard a lot of likewe've tried that before.
Um, women just aren'tinterested in sports.
Um, we heard a lot of feedbackthat was just like women's
sports just is, doesn't have theum, really there isn't a
(05:13):
business case for it.
Like it really it came down tolike there isn't and this isn't
an investable opportunitybecause it's not large enough.
Um, I would say, fast forward tonow.
That conversation has changed Alot of our, the early folks
that we spoke with, who passedon investing in us and what have
you are seeing that there hasbeen this tremendous growth and
(05:34):
this really big cultural shiftover the last few years too when
it comes to women's sports andfemale fandom.
But in those early days it wasactually it was a really
different time which, again,it's not that long ago, but we
have to remember this was kindof we launched before COVID.
We launched before the CaitlinClark effect.
Like the WNBA now is absolutelymassive, like a Women's World
(05:55):
Cup is a huge, huge event.
But that really wasn't the caseeven you know, five, six, seven
years ago, and so we got a lotof pushback in our early days.
Damian Bazadona (06:05):
I think your growth is incredible and it must
bring you such joy when you seesome of these folks from years
ago when they said this isn't aninvestable opportunity, it's
just not big enough of a marketto see the success you've had.
Maybe joy is the wrong word,but a little bit of.
I told you so, but you know.
Jacie deHoop (06:21):
It's fun.
It's a little fun.
Damian Bazadona (06:26):
There you go, Lisa.
I know you got some questions.
Lisa Cecchini (06:28):
Yeah, and JC, thank you so much for being here
.
I mean, obviously, a topicthat's very important to me.
For those that don't know me,I'm the huge like sports theater
hybrid in the office.
I love both so much.
My first question is about theintro that Peter gave straight
off your website.
You're described as fan firstand I'd love to know a little
(06:48):
bit more about what fan firstmeans to you.
Is that about, like, how you'rethinking about content, how
you're curating content?
I feel like a lot of sportscenter might say that they're
thinking about the fan first,but how do you really feel like
you're differentiating as afan-first sports property?
Jacie deHoop (07:06):
Yeah, I think for us it really means centering the
gesture in every decision thatwe make and in everything that
we do.
So certainly from a contentperspective, but from a revenue
and branded perspective as well,even from an ops and data
perspective.
I think the key difference forus versus a more kind of
traditional sports media companyis that we really started the
(07:29):
company as fans ourselves.
We don't have a background inmedia, in sports, in journalism,
which certainly has itsdownfalls Sometimes.
We have had to learn a lot.
It has certainly been alearning curve, but I think it
also means that we approacheverything a little bit
differently and with like whatis the solution for the fan?
(07:50):
Like what would?
What do we actually want as asreally our core demo that we
serve.
I think that the gist is reallybeing born out of a personal
pain point and we don'tnecessarily have the experience,
the expertise, the authority tosay, like you know, this is how
it's always been done, this isjust the way that we do it, this
is what works.
(08:11):
It's a little bit different and, again, like we think of it as
very fan first, because we'vereally been built, I think, in a
relatively grassroots way andfrom just really what we felt
like was missing as fans.
Lisa Cecchini (08:25):
Awesome and I know also one of your goals is
to cover men and women's sportsequally, which, of course, is a
differentiator in the sportsspace.
Is there also a goal to try andmaybe move some audiences that
maybe didn't think they wereinto women's sports but try and
convert them?
Or is that just kind of like anice ripple effect?
(08:45):
But it's not really somethingthat you're trying to do is to
convert people who maybe wererejecters of a certain type of
sport or a certain genderedsport, that kind of thing.
Jacie deHoop (08:54):
Right, yeah, I would say yes, that is a big
part of our strategy and what wetry to achieve.
I think and I'm glad youtouched on this, Lisa, because I
think that, as there's beenthis tremendous growth in
women's sports over the last fewyears, I think that female fans
equaling women's sports is abit really like reductive, and I
(09:16):
think that those two are oftenreally conflated.
Women love women's and men'ssports, and men love women's and
men's sports, and men lovewomen's and men's sports.
In fact, male fans are reallywhat's driving a lot of the
growth in women's sports rightnow.
And so, yes, we are really allabout bringing someone into the
sports world, whether that's thewomen's sports world or the
(09:36):
men's sports world, and makingyou feel welcome and falling in
love with it.
Um, that might mean discoveringa totally new sport that, just
like you, hadn't been on yourradar before.
Like we have so many jisters whomaybe have historically been a
huge NBA fan and they just don'thave the time to be watching
everything and watching sportsnight every day and what have
(09:57):
you.
So they subscribe to the gistand then, through our content,
they're like oh, I'm getting allof these updates on what's
happening in the W and it is sodramatic and so fun and I'm
starting to fall in love with itand follow it and what have you
?
But then we also have a lot ofnewer sports and I think that
you know the W is really pushingthe forefront of the growth of
women's sports.
But we have jisters who have,who come to us for, like,
(10:21):
volleyball, softball there's somany other sports that jisters
have become a fan of through us.
I think that we've become thisreally great kind of entry point
and that is agnostic of genderand I think that just generally
making again those fans thathave felt kind of on the
periphery feel more included isso essential to just growing
(10:43):
fandom overall, and I thinkthat's certainly men as fans of
women's sports and women as fansof men's sports.
I think it goes both ways.
Lisa Cecchini (10:52):
Yeah, I definitely want to give a shout
out to the men or people thatidentify as male out there that
are fans of female sports.
I went to the 2019 Women'sWorld Cup in France and I got
emotional seeing men wearingjerseys with women's last names
on the back, as I just.
It just was so meaningful andpowerful to me seeing people
(11:17):
walk around France proudlywearing these jerseys with their
whatever, whatever country itwas from, so it was awesome.
Jacie deHoop (11:24):
Yeah, 100%.
And I want to call out too that, like for women's sports to
grow, we need male fans.
That is just.
I think it's important for thatto just be really explicit and
to be recognized because, again,they're actually currently the
the largest growth driver um ofwomen's sports has been, has
(11:44):
been, amongst men, and so Ithink that it's a really good
call out.
And, again, I think, on the onthe other hand, from men's
sports perspective, there are somany female fans out there,
myself included that loveeverything wmba, but I'm a huge
NFL fan and, again, that's beenmore of an audience that I think
has been really historicallyunderserved, in that there's
just so much growth potential incentering them a little bit
(12:07):
more, making them feel includedand part of it.
Lisa Cecchini (12:09):
Absolutely.
I don't think people realizethat of the four major male
sports leagues in the UnitedStates, that the distribution is
, at the lowest, 30% female fansat the lowest.
Sometimes it's closer to 50,which it is in the NFL.
So it's like there is this hugegroup that has not historically
been as recognized.
So yeah, absolutely.
(12:29):
I'd love to also talk aboutyounger fans, because you
mentioned that in who a jisteris that you do have a lot of
younger fans and just what aresome of the gaps that you also
seeing that, what younger fanswant to see and how the gist is
helping to fulfill what they'relooking for in sports coverage
yeah, so our jisters arepredominantly millennials and
(12:53):
gen z, so we we think a lotabout this kind of younger fan.
Jacie deHoop (12:57):
I think of it as really like this next generation
of fans, and there's been quitea bit of research that has
indicated that younger fans, andparticularly Gen Z, isn't as
interested in sports, which Ithink has sent the industry into
a tailspin in some ways.
But I I really vehementlydisagree.
We have found that there is aton of interest amongst Gen Zs
(13:20):
and just that kind of youngermillennial as well in sports,
but it does show up in differentways than it did for their
parents and I think that has alot to do with shifting sports
media consumption and there'svarious factors that play into
that.
But I think a few of the keythings that we have found
younger fans are most interestedin and engaging with are the
(13:43):
athletes.
I think that has been just ahuge growth driver for women's
sports, especially these femaleathletes being so much bigger
than the sport that they play.
Like really transcending theirsport has been really amazing to
see and of course, social mediaplays a massive part in that.
But it's male athletes as wellthat Gen Z is following and kind
(14:04):
of falling in love with andthey're going to be following
their career and what they're upto outside of the league and
the team and they're going to betraveling around with them.
I think is really important forjust people to realize.
I think, like they, theathletes really are the biggest
growth driver and are reallywhat is driving that next
generation to pay attention tothe league.
(14:27):
I would also say that there'sthis interest in just like
storytelling beyond the scores.
I don't think that's very novelor cutting edge.
It's kind of like yes,obviously, but I think we're
seeing it even more so with thisnext generation.
I think we know attention spansare much lower and that the
(14:48):
scores and just what happened inthe game is not engaging enough
.
I think that this nextgeneration is looking for like
this.
So what Like?
How does this intersect withculture?
How does this play into thebigger picture of this season?
And so we're finding thatdefinitely providing more of
this storytelling and having anactual narrative and theme
(15:09):
around what's happening, whetherit's in a single game or a
season or the playoff run orwhat have you, that's really
what's drawing fans in and Ithink, especially newer fans.
That's what's making someonewho's maybe a more casual fan
actually start paying attentionand following a little bit more
closely.
I would also say like, from asports media consumption
(15:30):
perspective, is really likemeeting her where she already is
.
We find that this nextgeneration isn't necessarily
going to download a new app orsubscribe to something new, and
so meeting her on those existingchannels is really important.
Peter Yagecic (15:46):
Fandom Unpacked is brought to you by Situation,
an award-winning marketingagency built for live
entertainment that champions thepower of unforgettable shared
experiences around the world.
We offer full marketing andcreative services for
experience-based brands in liveentertainment, attractions,
theater, sports, arts andculture, and more.
Check us out atSituationInteractivecom.
(16:06):
Now back to our Q&A.
Lisa Cecchini (16:12):
I know we have some questions popping in, so,
peter, I'd love to turn it overto you.
Peter Yagecic (16:29):
Yeah, I'd love to turn it over to you.
Could you talk a little bitabout the different types of
content that are differentiatingyou from some of your
competition, or can you talkabout the kinds of things that
you see that are really working,whether it's interviews with
players on the podcast or justdifferent types of media that
you see is really working forthe GIST?
Jacie deHoop (16:51):
Yeah, yeah, I mean touching on that.
I think sports mediaconsumption and just media
consumption in general hasshifted quite a bit.
I think we used to be it usedto be all about the live
broadcast and live sports willalways be aren't watching live
sports and aren't watching thebroadcast.
Some of them are going to bewatching highlights on a channel
(17:21):
like a YouTube or on socialsand what have you, but they are
scrolling in different placesand so again, when you're trying
to engage with that peripheralfan, there's a few different
channels that we find and kindof formats that we find have
worked best.
There's a few differentchannels that we find and kind
of formats that we find haveworked best.
Our newsletter, an emailnewsletter, has really been our
signature channel from day one.
(17:42):
The very first night we came upwith the concept of the gist.
We wanted to start sending anewsletter.
We have a lot of corporate kindof gisters who are checking
their inbox incessantly, and Ithink that the newsletter is a
really interesting way to buildthat feeling of community.
There's a level of frequency toit.
We have a 46% open rate.
That's over double industryaverage and you know, I think
(18:04):
that is a channel that is notthe most sexy or cutting edge or
what have you Like.
It's very simple, but it hasallowed us to build that really,
really strong relationship andtrust with our gisters.
I would say our social channelsand by that I mean like an
Instagram, a TikTok arefoundational, super, super
important to a company like usas well.
I don't think that's anysurprise.
(18:26):
I would say that we think ofour socials as more of that kind
of like discovery channel,though it's not where we build
as much of that communityrelationship.
It's a little bit moredifficult to do on socials.
You're so at the whim of thealgorithms and what have you,
but a lot of gisters discover usthrough socials and they're
absolutely foundational.
I wouldn't say that theinterview style athlete
(18:49):
interview style is necessarilysomething that always hits.
I think it can, but it reallydepends on the athlete we found,
what their story is and theirpersonality, like how they're
performing.
There's a lot of differentfactors at play.
I wouldn't say that those kindsof athlete interviews are
necessarily a silver bullet thatalways work.
But I will touch on our podcastbecause I think that it's been
(19:11):
interesting to see how that ourpodcast kind of listenership has
evolved over the years and Ithink our podcast listeners are
highly, highly engaged.
Where the newsletter hascertainly a certain level of
engagement we have over amillion subscribers there.
Our podcast is a lot smallerbut those that listen to the
podcast and have been around fora while feel so tied to our
(19:32):
community.
And again, we don't necessarilydo interview style content
there, but it's more liketelling those athletes stories
and providing a little bit moreof that contextual storytelling
on the pod that I think thatformat is just really conducive
to a little bit more depth andcontext.
That is very difficult toachieve in a very short
(19:54):
newsletter.
That's very quippy.
Peter Yagecic (19:56):
Well, I'm going to sneak in one more audience
question before I kick it backto Lisa.
Are there any headlines or bigstories in the past few years
that you feel perfectlypersonified as just a previously
underserved perspective onsports, that have helped you
achieve liftoff?
Anything that sticks out.
Jacie deHoop (20:14):
There are so many.
Anything that sticks out Hmm,there are so many.
The one headline or kind ofmoment that I think shifted the
concept of the gist to being alittle bit more mainstream was
actually Serena Williams in herretirement.
I think that there was a lot ofintersections.
Like, serena Williams is justsuch a huge superstar again, is
(20:37):
that kind of athlete thattranscends the sport, has like
just so much personality, somuch business and commerce
around her.
I think her pregnancy, her kindof retirement tour, like that
last US Open run wasa, really itwas like such an amazing moment
(20:58):
for just like women's sports.
And I think tennis is aninteresting one where we've seen
a lot of that work happen wayback in the day with Billie Jean
King, so that women's tennis isat the place that it is now.
And I think just seeingeverybody talking about Serena
Williams and her retirement andwhat that meant for the sport of
tennis and what that meant forwomen's sports overall, I
(21:19):
noticed that that was a reallyinteresting shift.
I was in New York at the timeat the Open, so I think I was
like really in that hubbub.
And then the other kind of it'snot necessarily a headline, but
I would say.
The Olympics in general areanother really great example
where women's and men's sportsare more on that level playing
field.
This last Paris Olympics wasthe first that we had gender
(21:40):
equity and the storylines thatcome out of the Olympic Games
where again there's a little bitmore of that level playing
field and everyone's coming inas a newer fan and not knowing
the ins and outs of a lot ofthose sports.
Lisa Cecchini (21:51):
That is a really amazing event for us where we
find that our coverage ourcontent, our way of thinking
about sports really transcendsand reaches that kind of other
level, either contentprogramming or anything.
(22:14):
That was like a big learning orsurprise, because I think most
of our listeners know thatgenerally about the shift of
coverage that happened justorganically at first and then
the explosion that kind of justcame quickly after.
Jacie deHoop (22:30):
Yeah, I would say from our perspective, we didn't
change much before after duringthe rise of Caitlin Clark,
because I think our content hasbeen a real inflection point
where all of a sudden, a lotmore people have been paying
attention and we've certainlyseen that has been a shift.
(23:04):
I think the macro environmenthas really changed when it comes
to like is this an investableopportunity?
Are we putting brand dollarsagainst women's sports and the
WNBA and I?
That has been a reallysignificant shift in the last
few years with the rise ofCaitlin Clark.
But I would say for us, from acontent perspective, we really
(23:24):
haven't changed much.
We've always covered women'sbasketball very closely.
I think it's actually beeninteresting because we have seen
and this happens in any newspace we've seen a lot of new
entrants and so when we firststarted the GIST, we had no
competition.
You know it was very much so awhite space and people would ask
(23:45):
, like, who are your competitors?
And there really weren't any atthe time.
And that has certainly changed,which is going to happen and
should happen, like we need morecontent, more coverage,
everything and again, whetherthat's around women's sports or
in centering female fans, Ithink that it has been with any
like exponential growthimmediately.
There's also people that arejumping on the opportunity to
(24:07):
make a quick buck, like thatalways happens in business.
And so I think, staying true toour roots we started the gist
serving gisters and also likemaking it known that we have
been here for some time and arenot kind of jumping on that
bandwagon I think is actuallyvery important, and I find that
female fans in particular arevery, very discerning and they
(24:30):
are really paying attention tothe brands that are, in
particular, that are showing upand, you know, actually
investing in the sustainablegrowth of women's sports, versus
doing a quick campaign tocapitalize on some of the
momentum and the headlines thatare happening right now.
And so I think the fact that wehave been in this space and
growing this space for some timegoes a long way with this
(24:52):
audience.
It might not with other fans,but I think for our gisters
that's been a really importantfactor too, as the space has
become a little bit more crowdedand everyone has a little bit
of a different approach toengaging with a moment, like
Caitlin Clark and her fandom.
Lisa Cecchini (25:09):
Awesome.
I have one fun question andthen I will pass it back to
Peter, but on our last FandomUnpacked, we had Nicole from the
US Open, which was a greatconversation, and those of us
that are based in New York,we're all getting excited for
the US Open, which is just threeweeks away.
She had to rightfully dodgethis question because she works
at the US Open, but I'd love toknow who do you like for both
(25:31):
the women's draw and the men'sdraw for the US Open?
Jacie deHoop (25:34):
Oh, okay, I'm a huge Coco golf fan.
I am Canadian, so I would loveLeila Fernandez to just like hit
it out of the water, and shemight.
She has been hitting very well,but I do think what Coco
represents for just the growthof the sport and American fandom
(25:54):
for tennis is really special.
I love the way she plays andshe did not have a great run at
the Canadian Open that ishappening right now or the
National Bank Open happening inToronto right now, but she will
bounce back and I would put mymoney on Coco if I was a betting
woman.
And on the men's side, I say mylike fan favorite and who I love
(26:18):
to watch is Tiafoe.
I think he just gets to a wholeother level in New York and
feel the energy of the crowd andhim just like.
He is somebody who I think doessuch an amazing job at like
feeding off the crowd's energyand the crowd gives him that
back, and so he would be myfavorite to watch.
Like I really want to get toone of his matches.
Um, I would probably put mymoney on sinner, yeah yeah,
(26:46):
you're like.
Lisa Cecchini (26:47):
You just said all the things that I would have
said.
Peter Yagecic (26:49):
I love it, peter uh, well, okay, then I'm going
to pick a fun audience questionto follow up with that one on
and this is clearly from someonewho's come to a lot of our
fandom unpacks, because it's acallback they said F1 expanded
its fan base with Netflix'sDrive to Survive series and
professional tennis benefitedfrom the movie Challengers
(27:11):
starring Zendaya.
Is there any sport that you'dlike to see?
Get the Hollywood treatmentnext to bring some more
visibility to it.
Jacie deHoop (27:19):
There are so many.
The one that I think should bethe first candidate for a
Netflix docuseries would bevolleyball, or a Netflix
docu-series would be volleyball.
(27:40):
I think that women's collegevolleyball is, like, so exciting
.
I don't know if anyone in theaudience or if you guys have
seen just some of the audiencenumbers in those stadiums, but
it is just crazy.
And I think the athleticismthat you see when watching
volleyball, like I find it to bea really interesting sport.
If you are a more casual fan ordon't have like a background and
(28:01):
don't necessarily like it'svery easy to follow.
And, again, I think that justthe athleticism that's on
display is so fun.
And I would be paying attentionto women's college volleyball
and then that pro pipeline.
I think there's a few leaguesright now that are really taking
off and there's and there's afew, and that's where I think
there'll be probably a naturalconsolidation but, um, you know,
(28:22):
making these women stars andagain like larger than their
sport, um, I think, I thinkvolleyball is very ripe with
opportunity, um, and I think itwill be the next big thing.
Peter Yagecic (28:35):
Awesome, Well, Netflix.
I hope you're listening becauseI've watched that.
Damien, do you have a?
Damian Bazadona (28:39):
question.
Yeah, one more.
You know, I think the wholepoint of Fandom Unpacked is we
bring different industriestogether sports, entertainment,
media space, live events allabout fandom.
You have done something prettyincredible.
You've engaged groups ofaudiences and fans that have not
been spoken to in the way thatthey want to be spoken to.
(29:01):
You create a whole businessaround it.
What would be your advice tothe folks on this call there
could be F1 on this call thetennis folks, all the different
industries represented heretoday.
What would be your advice tothem on what to do or what not
to do in the sports andentertainment media space?
Based on what you've learned,there's a lot.
Jacie deHoop (29:24):
I think the biggest piece would be that
there are a lot of audiences andfans that are considered niche
um or another big objection thatwe've certainly got is that
we've already tried growing withthat fan or with that audience
and I would interrogate that alittle bit further.
I think when we've gotten a lotof this feedback I mentioned in
(29:45):
our early days especially, butI think for those on the call I
would really look at the numbersand think about and really
unpack, like, what is the actualtotal addressable market here?
How much um does this fan spendin other categories?
How much influence do they haveover their household spending
and why are they currentlyunderserved, and you start to
see, I think, a reallytremendous business opportunity.
(30:07):
I think that the incorrect wayof going about it is as a
project, a cause, a diversityquota or project.
I think that it is the rightthing to do to center these
underserved fans or otheraudiences or more diverse fans
and what have you.
I do think it is the rightthing to do, but I think there's
(30:30):
a business opportunity here andI think treating it like that
and investing in it like that isincredibly important.
To kind of taking whether it'swomen's sports or female fandom,
or how this applies to yourindustry to a whole other level.
You need to make the businesscase for it.
I think that's what I wouldleave the group with is kind of
thinking about some of thosespaces, places, fans that may
(30:54):
have been deemed as a niche or asmaller opportunity, and like
actually going through thenumbers and seeing what that
could look like if they arecentered and heard, and like
really what that growth couldlook like.
Damian Bazadona (31:07):
Yeah, no, I totally agree, and as a business
we usually speak of, I don'tthink there's much of a ceiling
for what people will do forthings they're passionate about.
It's just a tremendous businessopportunity.
If you're going to tap itTotally, yeah, thank you, peter,
take it.
Peter Yagecic (31:20):
That's going to do it for this episode of Fandom
Unpacked the podcast.
If you liked what you heard,please be sure to leave us a
review on Apple Podcasts.
Find out how to join us livefor an upcoming recording at
situationlivecom slash fan.
We'll see you next time, truebelievers.
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