November 26, 2025 • 42 mins
What happens when a show stops asking you to watch and starts inviting you to be seen? We sit down with impresario Randy Weiner, the creative force behind Sleep No More, Queen of the Night, The Box, and the new Phantom Masquerade, to explore how human touch, story clarity, and radical hospitality can transform a night out into a memory that won’t let go.
Randy traces his spark back to the balcony at Cats, where performers spilled into the aisles and changed his idea of what theater could be. From there, he breaks down why so many “immersive” attempts stall: great ideas without great execution. His approach feels more like opera than chasing the latest trend; cast world‑class talent, bring in award‑winning designers, invest in lights, sets, and sound that hold up inches from an audience’s face, and take responsibility for the entire journey, from box office to bar to goodbye. We dig into why Masquerade insists on formalwear and masks, how that shared ritual forges instant cohesion, and why the million‑dollar chandelier uses real crystals instead of plastic.
If you’re curious how to turn spectators into co‑conspirators, and why the details matter when audiences are within arm’s reach, this conversation is your blueprint. Follow the show, share it with a friend who loves live experiences, and leave a review to help more curious fans find us.
Recorded Tuesday, November 25th, 2025
Hosts: Damian Bazadona, CEO & Founder, Situation & Maureen Andersen, President & CEO, INTIX
Guest: Randy Weiner, Founder, Outside the Box Amusements
Producer: Peter Yagecic, Innovation Advisor, Situation
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Peter Yagecic (00:04):
You're listening to Fandom Unpacked from
Situation and Intix, the podcastseries where we unpack modern
fandom with some of thebrightest minds in sports and
entertainment.
I'm producer Peter Yajisic, andjoining me for today's QA are
Situation CEO and founder DamienBasadana and president and CEO
of Intix, Maureen Anderson.
Our guest today is ImpresarioRandy Weiner, a creative
(00:25):
producer of some of the coolestlive events happening around the
world from Sleep No More to TheBox to this year's Phantom
Masquerade.
Randy's also the founder ofOutside the Box Amusements, a
theatrical production companythat wins over fans by combining
world-class entertainment,bespoke hospitality, and
innovative design.
I'll be back in a bit to askRandy some listener questions
submitted to us atfandomunpack.com.
(00:46):
Damien, would you like to getus underway?
Damian Bazadona (00:49):
I would love to.
Randy, you are widelyconsidered one of the pioneers
of immersive entertainment.
I am I might be your number onefan.
From Sleep No More to Queen ofthe Night to Masquerade, which
is all the buzz right now.
Take us through your thinkingof putting audiences inside of a
story instead of just in frontof it through all these amazing
(01:12):
experiences that you've created.
Randy Weiner (01:14):
I think that is the essence of what got me into
this glamorous and excitingbusiness is just exactly that.
The idea that we can get evenmore into the action as an
audience.
You know, it's funny becausewhen I was doing to do
(01:34):
masquerade, obviously I had totalk to Andrew Lloyd Weber.
And Andrew Lloyd Weber is agenius in so many ways, but on a
very primal level, he is agenius of being a theatrical
empresario himself.
Like these crazy ideas like,hey, why don't we have a
chandelier come crashing down inthe audience?
Why don't we have people onroller skates, roller skate all
(01:57):
around the audience?
And really the signal cardinalmoment in my life was when I
went to see cats as a youngRandy, and I was sitting in the
balcony, and all those cats camerunning off the stage and
started running around thebalcony and touching me.
I was like, oh my God, this isthe craziest thing I've ever
(02:21):
experienced.
And oh my God, you can do thisin the theater.
You can do anything here.
And I really think that set meon this course where I was like,
wow, you know, you can go somuch further in the sort of live
potential of an audience andperformer interaction.
And, you know, we all in thetheater talk about, I was so
(02:42):
touched, you know, in any sortof art form, I was really
touched by it.
But like, you can really touchpeople, you know, that was
really an exciting thing.
So I think that those are likesort of the key things for me is
like, wow, you know, humantouch is a really powerful
thing.
And um if you want to touchpeople, pull out all the stops.
So I was like, why doesn't it?
In a weird way, I feel that wayabout masquerade.
(03:03):
I'm like, once I've done this,isn't everyone gonna want to do
this?
Because it's just so intensewhen the phantom comes up and,
you know, it's great on thephantom, unbelievable singers,
unbelievable music, unbelievableeverything.
But the most important part iswhen he comes up and touches
your shoulder.
I mean, at the end of the day,all this stuff we do, this great
city, all the things we'vebuilt in the world, it it's
(03:27):
really just we give it all upto, you know, have another human
being touch us, right?
I mean, or it's all a way toget someone to touch us, you
know.
So yeah, that's why it's allabout what you asked, Damon.
Damian Bazadona (03:40):
There's been a lot of immersive experiences
that I and by the way, I use theword immersive very carefully
because I know some peopleactually despise that term
because it means so manydifferent things, but we'll just
play along.
There's been a fair number ofnew immersive experiences.
Um, we hear a lot of them thatjust don't pan out to be all
that good for lack of a betterway of framing it.
(04:00):
What is it that you thinkpeople get wrong about it?
And you've seen enough stuff.
Like, what's what do you feellike is usually the missing
sauce that you feel like they'rejust people just aren't
getting?
Randy Weiner (04:09):
Yeah, I I think for me, I just I can only talk
about myself, is I really thinkyou want everything to be great.
Like in opera, you know, likethe sets are great, the music's
great, the singers are great,everything's great.
So I just look at it for mepersonally, that I want
everything to be top of itsclass.
(04:30):
Because that's, you know, Iwant the performers.
I mean, we've got Du Pinero inour Phantom of the Opera in an
immersive.
I can't even believe he's doingit, but he loves it.
You know, he because it's likea new different thing, not to
mention all these guys who arethe stars of Hamilton and Lee
Mizerables.
I mean, it's it's insane thepeople we had, all these women
(04:51):
who were Christines in the show.
So to get the top, top leveltalent is obviously the most
important thing.
And then, you know, then wejust go down by degrees.
And it's like, all right, well,let's get the best set
designers.
All right, let's go get someTony Award-winning set
designers.
Let's go get some, you know,the best lighting designer, the
best everything.
Um, so I think that's how Ithink about it.
(05:13):
Like, I just want everything tobe the absolute best.
And I think sometimes I've seenshows on, wow, that was a
really cool idea, but you didn'texecute it to the level of the
idea.
And I never want that to be me.
You know, I and I and I can't,I'm kind of a like a messed up
perfectionist where I just needeverything to be at the high
level.
And again, when you doimmersive stuff, it's so vast.
(05:35):
I mean, you're because you'rethe theater.
You're you're often the boxoffice yourself, because you
know, you can't just hiretelecharge to do your thing.
You're the F and D staff.
You're the, you're everything.
You know, I'm the ushers.
So it's just a lot.
Like, I think people don'trealize, like, oh, I want to do
an immersive show.
But like, if you're reallydoing an immersive show, every
step of the way, you know,you're you're taking
(05:58):
responsibility for treatingpeople in the in the best
possible manner.
So again, I feel like I'm luckybecause I have a like a big F
and B background also, whichreally taught me to think
differently from theater people.
Because when you're inhospitality, um, it's not
acceptable.
I mean, I think people do atheater show, you just present
your show, and um, you know,some people like it, some people
(06:22):
don't like it.
But for me, that's not goodenough.
I take that kind of 11 MadisonPark, like, oh my God, this
person didn't like it.
Excuse me, sir, can I take out,take away your, you know,
whatever you ordered and giveyou something else?
Do you know what I mean?
Like that, that's how I see theworld.
So, you know, it's likeradical, radical hospitality.
And again, I'm not sure thatmost ticketed people think that
(06:44):
way, you know.
Damian Bazadona (06:44):
And yeah, they I would say that I think one
thing you do exceptionally wellis I think you invest in the
product.
You start there.
You say this thing has to be agreat experience.
You don't necessarily, this isa conversation we've had, but
uh, you don't necessarily startwith the what's the audience
gonna want as much as is this agreat experience that audiences
are going to like?
And I think there's a big partwe've taught, we'll have, I'm
sure we'll get into it laterabout marketing budgets and the
(07:07):
where you make your investmentsis in the experience itself,
which I think is is massivelyimpressive.
One more question before I knowMaureen, uh Maureen to get in.
Um, you know, you builtexperiences, uh, I think of uh
sleep no more, for example,where fans don't just visit
once.
They come three, four, ten, youhear these crazy stories, the
amount of time people come.
(07:27):
And and when I had seen SleepNo More, I just saw people
around me even talking, sayingthis is their fifth time there.
What design, how do you thinkabout that?
Just in terms of whether, Idon't know if you want to call
them design principles orlevers, you were pulling to
like, how do you think aboutthat when you're putting forth
some of these experiences todrive repeat visitation?
Because a lot of people listento this podcast, that's got
that's an envy of like, wow, howdo you kind of keep that type
(07:49):
of retention of people comingback more and more?
Randy Weiner (07:52):
And it's funny, I don't, I never think about that.
I never think, oh, they'regonna come back.
People say that to me all thetime, like, oh Randy, it's great
if we don't, you know, showeverything, show our complete
hand, and there's a way forpeople to come back and see the
whole thing.
And I literally always shutthem down, Damien.
I'm always like, don't thinklike that.
Every time you come has to beabsolutely amazing.
(08:15):
So I actually think it'sbecause we give such an amazing
experience and it is so intimateand it is so personal, you're
gonna come back.
So it's it's it's just it'sjust like a real almost like a
bugaboo of mine.
Like whenever I do this, it'slike they think like I'm so
clever and I've figured out away to like not reveal
everything.
But it's not that at all.
It's it's really justdelivering the best possible
(08:37):
experience, making it the mostpersonal, making an audience
member feel really seen.
You know what I mean?
Like literally, I'm at I was atMasquerade Phantom yesterday,
or two days ago, and um a womancomes up, she's like, This is my
15th time.
And I was like, wow, why do youcome back 15 times?
And she just said, the castknows her because they see her.
(08:58):
It's not like, you know,they're lit up and she's in the
dark and just seeing them.
They're seeing her.
So she just feels like sheknows them and has a real
connection, not to mention mywhole hospitality mode, because
when you go to a restaurant, yougo back to the restaurant a lot
of times.
I'm not interested in like aone-off.
If you have a bar, neighborhoodbar, you want people to come
back all the time.
(09:18):
You want to have your nameknown if you're the customer.
You know what I mean?
And the the people I hire lovethat.
They're into that hospitalitything.
So I think that breeds thisreturn.
I mean, it's funny, like peoplethink I'm much more clever than
I am.
People are much more clevermaybe than than I am.
Maybe that's a better way toput it.
I doubt they think I'm thatclever, but I think they're very
clever and they come up withall these ideas, but that's not
(09:41):
at all what it is.
It's just to deliver the best,most personalized experience
possible.
Damian Bazadona (09:46):
It's a fancy that idea, you know?
Yeah, I know.
Well, that's what's so funny.
It's so funny.
Randy Weiner (09:50):
It's really just going down to like first
principles of like, what are wedoing here and not being stuck
in just okay, well, this is howa show's done.
And it all goes back to thatAndrew Legweibler Katz
experience.
It was like, oh my God, youcould like you can do anything.
You can do anything.
So own that.
And if you're gonna doanything, really go for it.
Really make it, you know, asunique and special as possible.
(10:12):
Don't just stop and be like,well, you know, we did the show
Donkey Show.
I'm gonna tell the story.
We did the show Donkey Show,which happened in a nightclub.
And I don't know if you guysever heard of it, ever saw it.
It was a version of MidsummerNight's Dream.
Happened in a nightclub.
We met so many people who wouldcome up to us like, I want to
do my show in a nightclub.
And I was like, you knowsomething?
You're saying that, but youdon't know what really is to do
a show in a nightclub.
(10:32):
When you do a show in anightclub, you have to do the
kind of show where when thebarbacks are carrying, you know,
all these empty glasses goingclink, clink, clink, clink,
clink, clink, clink, you know,making so much noise, that has
to be part of your show.
So it's like people seesometimes the things I do and
they take the little bits of itthat they want, you know, they
think, oh, it's cool to do ashow in a nightclub, or oh, you
(10:53):
know, you don't have to pay asmuch rent because the bar pays
for everything.
Yeah, but it's it, you have toaccept that a waiter is going to
come by in the middle of yourshow and serve a drink.
And then some people would say,oh, can we use your venue, this
club I was running for the umfor a show?
And it just wouldn't work outbecause they'd be like, shh, you
know, like, no, that's not it.
You know, you have to meet thevenue at where it is, you have
(11:15):
to meet the audience where theyare.
Maureen Andersen (11:17):
So I I love the analogy.
It's kind of like everybodythinking they can just be Mickey
and Judy.
I've got a barn, my mom willmake costumes, let's do a show.
So it and in when you said thepart about taking bits, you
know, these experiences arepopping up kind of everywhere.
Denver, Charlotte, London, LasVegas, most certainly.
(11:38):
Is are you taking, are youpaying attention to those and
taking bits from them, either ininspiration or things, oh, I
don't want to do that, or youknow, do they inspire you?
Are you paying attention tothat stuff?
Yeah.
Randy Weiner (11:52):
Um I, you know, this is the kind of experience I
like, is when it's reallyintense and when you really
connect with people.
That's the part I love.
You know, this speaks to whatDamien was saying, Maureen, like
the immersive.
Immersive is an enormouscategory.
So when I go to a, you know,I'll use Van Gogh as like the
the biggest name in thatindustry.
(12:14):
When they put a bunch of VanGogh pictures on the wall, that
to me is like not the part of itthat's interesting to me.
You know what I mean?
Great, interesting to lots ofpeople, not interesting to me.
So when you talk about shows, II will I do go to the Van Gogh
when I go to those projectionshows.
Um, and I get very little outof them.
And in a way that reinforcesfor me, God, it's so important
(12:34):
to have human beings.
I mean, like, yes, I love goingto see all these things, and
they always turn me on.
Sometimes they turn me onbecause of a negative response.
Sometimes they'll turn me onbecause of a positive thing.
Um, and it's it's really like avery small group of people
still who are in immersive.
You know what I mean?
Like, there's probably like 10of us who are really like doing
(12:58):
the kind of immersive wheresomebody buys a ticket.
You know, there's a lot ofpeople who do an immersive thing
for a brand, or you know,there's all sorts of immersive
things that are going on.
But when you're saying, hey,I'm delivering something that's
so awesome that you're gonna payfor it and you're gonna love it
so much at the end, you'regonna tell your friends to pay
for it.
That's like a whole otherlevel, obviously, from like,
(13:18):
hey, I did a one-off andeveryone came for free, and you
know, and I do those too.
Um, but you know, that it'sjust that there's a very small
squad of people.
And I'm and I feel verypersonally close to all those
people.
Like honestly, I I just youjust see them, and they're like,
we're all just trying to figurethis thing out that is far from
being figured out.
Maureen Andersen (13:36):
Well, in that of that whole conversation about
figuring it out is that yourcompany, your website, what you
talked about earlier is that youlike marrying that concept of
the of absolute world-classentertainment with hospitality
and design so that it's likethis whole package.
And in practice, I'm curious: is that what does that (13:53):
undefined
combination unlock?
And what does it do for youraudiences?
How does that change them?
Randy Weiner (14:04):
I think audiences come in to these experiences
because, again, it is so new,wanting very different things.
I think there's people who comein and they actually want a
story.
And when you talk about SleepNo More, that's my own show in a
way.
I learned a lot from that.
Because there are a lot ofpeople who leave that show and
be like extremely disappointed,you know, frustrated that they
(14:25):
there wasn't a story and justfelt like it didn't add up to
anything.
So, again, that's why for me,what I learned is like, I want
to try something likeMasquerade.
I want to try something whereactually people, everyone's
gonna go in and understand thestory and laugh at a specific
point and cry at the end, andyou know, imagine themselves
either as Phantom or Christine,you know, and really deliver
(14:47):
that to people.
So I I think to do everythingthen well, like then allows more
people to come because that's acertain kind of person who
wants the story and wants thedramatic kind of tension and
emotion at the end.
There's another side who justgoes in and they're just like,
oh my god, just being in thisspace is so overwhelming and
(15:08):
like so cool.
And like, you're kidding, I'min the Phantom's world.
And for them, I want it to belike they fully entered the
phantom world of their dreams.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, like whatever theywished, I want, I just
desperately want to deliverthem.
So, like we put in a milliondollar, literally a million
dollar chandelier that's twiceas big as the one on Broadway.
(15:29):
Has instead of the one onBroadway, has like, you know,
plastic crystals because it hasto be a reasonable weight.
We went nuts.
We're like, let's use realcrystals because you're right
next to it.
We you can't get away withstagecraft.
So, you know, like that.
So I think it just I just keepgoing.
Like every single aspect of it,I want to be the best because
there's gonna be differentaudiences that were looking for
(15:50):
whatever that thing is.
Um, and I want it, and again,there's people who want the
story, but then there's peoplewho all they live for is the
secret one-on-one in Phantomwhere a character takes you into
a corner and talks to you.
And I want to do that, and Ialso want to do that incredibly
well.
So well, it's great.
Maureen Andersen (16:06):
I mean, it's like the advanced.
I mean, they, you know,everybody wants to get a letter
from OG.
I mean, that's you know, partof it.
It's like they feel that.
So it it kind of makes youraudiences really become the
characters and yourcollaborators.
I mean, they drive some ofthis, they're your
co-conspirators.
And how do you change theemotional stakes for the
audience, keep that urgency andagency vital and and and so
(16:31):
intrinsic to the experience?
Randy Weiner (16:34):
Yeah, I think what's important is there's
there, I always say this whenyou do immersive theater with
human beings, it is a dance.
It's truly a dance.
So you rehearse it, and there'sjust the performers, but they
don't have their partner calledthe audience.
So I think you're justsensitive in the dance.
Like, how does a dance stayinteresting?
It's like you do a subtle thingthis way one day, and then your
(16:57):
partner reacts subtly inresponse to that.
And that that's really whatthis is about.
So it just even take, I mean,this is gonna answer sort of
both the questions.
Like when you talk about thegiveaways and the OG letters, I
don't know if you're saying thatbecause that's something you
want in Maureen, or you know, wedo that all over the place.
So that we give away, oh, yep.
So we all I I totally agree.
(17:17):
That was the perfect answerbecause I want it, I know I want
it, so we put in the show.
But then when we're doing,we're like, you know, these
letters, people are holdingthese letters in their hands.
So on stage, you know, theydon't have to be, you know,
hundred-pound weight, finestationary.
For us, they do, because you'regonna handle that thing.
And how does it getinteresting?
(17:38):
Is is then we're like, oh,actually, we could add another
letter here.
I don't know, like it'sconstant for the performers,
constant, like, oh my God, whenwe did that dance step that
time, they reacted this way, andthat gives me an idea.
I want to do, I have two extraminutes.
I want to take people over hereand do a one-on-one.
So it just creates so muchenergy, you know what I mean, of
just exploration and reallybeing alive.
(17:59):
And you just never run throughyour paces.
I mean, it's not like aBroadway show.
And I thought that was gonna bea thing that would just, I
mean, just it's so much energyas a performer to like every
time have to react to, you know,what's going on.
But actually, it just makes youfeel alive.
And all these performers, Isaid this, I feel like I've said
this to you guys, but like, youknow, the people started and
(18:22):
this project and they were allon six-month contracts, and
they're all, you know, Broadwaycredits the star of Lynn
Isarables, the star of Hamilton,Dupanero, the star of, you
know, Phantom of the Opera.
Everyone's star, star, star.
And then I thought, okay,they're gonna do this, and
they're gonna be like, okay,that was fun.
Now I'm out of here.
And I was like, oh my God, oursecond cast is how we're gonna
find a second cast.
(18:42):
Are they ever gonna be as goodas the first cast?
They've all signed up to be inthe show.
They've all signed up again,because I think being that
alive, like you know, Maureen,like being that alive just as a
human being is a turn-on, as anactor who wants to feel so alive
is such a turn-on.
And I and I think it's theaudiences in your face that sort
of bring that on.
Maureen Andersen (19:05):
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Hey Peter, you had a reallygreat question from an audience
member.
Peter Yagecic (19:46):
Yeah, we have a listener question that uh kind
of goes a little bit deeper onwhat you were talking about a
minute ago, Randy, with theletter.
Uh, but this was this was aboutthe Sleep No More mask.
Uh, this person said, I lovedSleep No More, and I still have
my mask hanging in the corner ofmy office.
Can you talk about the value ofhaving a physical memento or
keepsake of an amazing immersiveexperience?
(20:06):
Also, has anyone ever stolen aprop from a show to create their
own keepsake?
Yeah.
Randy Weiner (20:13):
Um again, just to speak to my absolute luck or,
you know, whatever is making allthese things make more sense to
you guys as you talk about itthan when I was sort of thinking
of these things.
You know, we worked with PunchDrunk, and um they had done many
mask shows.
They were the designers anddirectors and creators of Slip
(20:33):
No More.
And they never gave their masksout.
They would just collect themasks at the end and swab it
down with alcohol.
But I am a horrible, horriblegermophobe.
And I was like, no way are wedoing that.
No way.
We're gonna like, we will gofigure out a way to source those
(20:53):
masks in China, whatever ittakes to make those masks
semi-reasonably something we cangive away.
And from that, the greatestmarketing idea was born.
That wow, people take away themask.
But honestly, that wasn't why Ithought to do that.
It was really just like, ohGod.
So I I I love that.
I love that people like Damienprobably think I'm really a
(21:14):
genius marketer.
And you know, you discover thatpeople want things, you know,
and there's certain things I'mlike, okay, these people want
these things.
We're gonna let these thingsgo.
And then the other things,they'll try and take those
things too, and then we'll haveto honestly nail those things
down.
You know what I mean?
So, so I'm I'm a lot of thingsare just luck.
(21:37):
Like I literally just luckedinto it.
And because the rules are sonascent, you know, like no one
knows how you're like, no oneknows.
Are you like when when you insleep number one we said fortune
favors the bold?
What did that mean?
That's what was the line wesaid to everyone who walked in.
It was such a new form, no oneknew what that meant.
Did that mean you could takethings?
Did not take things?
(21:57):
Are you supposed to grab theperformers?
I don't know.
We're we're kind of relying onsome unspoken kind of back and
forth.
It doesn't even happen inDonkey Show.
Um, my wife, Diane, was thedirector of Donkey Show.
Literally, she jokes aboutthis.
Donkey Show was a show.
We did midsummer night streamsset in a nightclub.
So it really felt like it was aclub.
(22:17):
And people would be like, oh myGod, that was so brilliant when
you did Donkey Show, it waslike a club.
But when we first did DonkeyShow, people would come and sit
down on the floor because theydidn't know, oh, you're supposed
to behave like a club.
They were just like, oh, we'rehere to see a show.
They literally would just sitdown in the middle of a dance
floor and sort of watch theproceedings.
And you'd just be like, oh myGod.
So there's a little bit alsoof, you know, figuring out and
(22:40):
early adopters teaching peoplewhat's appropriate and us sort
of helping guide that, but alsoset limits.
So when you talk about takingstuff, it's a very dangerous
subject for me because I wantpeople to take things, but not
too many things, if that makessense.
But yes, we we sort of have to,again, that's a dance.
We're figuring out, you know,what are we gonna let them take?
(23:02):
And the rest we kind of nail itdashed.
Damian Bazadona (23:04):
I love it.
Damien, now back to you for thenext question.
Sure.
But by the way, I went toDonkey Show.
I didn't know I was going toDonkey Show, and someone said,
Meet me there.
And I met them there.
I was waiting in line, and Ihave no idea this is an
interactive show.
And I guess one of the actorsand performers used to work the
line, right?
And say something.
He's like, hey, baby, likewhatever.
I'm like, yo, you got to backup.
Meanwhile, I had no idea thisis an immersive show, which is
(23:25):
just actually ridiculouslyfunny.
So I was like, no, then Damien,it's all part of the show.
I was like, oh, okay, nice tosee you.
Randy Weiner (23:30):
Yeah, and can you imagine how many day means there
are like that for every show Ido?
They're like, what is going onhere?
What am I supposed to do?
So it creates all sorts ofcrazy things happen.
And and that becomes the fuel.
Like for Maureen, your questionof like, oh, that was cool.
We never expected someone toact like that.
Damian Bazadona (23:48):
So I love it.
Uh I was like, next time Ishould read someone's email
because I just actually showedup.
Um how do you think about theaudience makeup as a central
character?
We talked a little bit about,we we talked before about how
the audience kind of plays amajor role.
But for any live event, likewho you're standing next to is
ultimately a huge part of theoverall experience.
(24:08):
Uh the extreme example, I'll goto the sports world.
I'm a Giants fan.
And me watching a football gameat, I don't know, Eagle Stadium
is very much different thanwatching that same game at
NetLife Stadium.
So I know the immersivelandscape deals with this
question a lot about cultivatingthe audience, like how you're
(24:29):
kind of making that.
How do you think about that?
Just curious.
Randy Weiner (24:32):
Um, I think about it absolutely because the
audience in my shows to date hasalways been such a part of the
show.
So you take Donkey Showhistorically.
Like Donkey Show, the audiencewas in the show.
I mean, they're, you know, bythe time they figured out not to
sit on the floor, they'redancing around, and that energy
is creating the show.
(24:54):
So that was quite easy becauseit was disco music and it was
fun, and we figured out how todo a pre-show to warm the
audience up, to sort of get theminto, you know, one body.
That's that kind of a, I almostfeel like a Peter Brook term.
It's like, how do you takeeveryone?
And I get when you're talkingabout the, you know, whatever,
the Eagles versus the Giants,those guys are like competing.
Luckily, we're not competing,so we don't have that high a bar
(25:16):
to like make a kumbaya momentbetween the people of
Philadelphia and and New York.
But I think to get them in asimilar place is really
important.
Um, so sleep no more, what wasthe solution for that?
That was a mast.
You know what I mean?
So that then people are coming,they're all dressed kind of
different.
They're all different heights,different this, different that.
But the mask sort of made themuniform because when they start
(25:38):
to have too much individuality,unless you're really taking that
directly into the experience,like we did in the Donkey show,
because we could have someonewho's like a freak, wants to
dance like crazy, and we had away to integrate that into the
show.
Like a great dancer would getup and have moments like that.
But then you get to masquerade,and that's where we really
dialed up sort of the groupexperience of it, because we
(25:59):
said you have to wear white,black, silver, you need to wear
formal wear or cocktail wear.
You have to, we're gonna, youeither bring your own mask or
we're gonna give you a mask.
And all the theater people, thetraditional theater, are like,
that's impossible.
You know, this is already acrazy idea.
That's idiotic.
You're gonna keep your audienceaway.
(26:20):
And I'm like, no, I thinkthat's part of the buy-in.
That's part of the fun, isyou're gonna look great.
You're gonna be going to thisball that the phantom is giving.
And um, I think that that'sbeen an incredibly successful
part.
I mean, I when I get I hadn'tbeen there for a while because I
had to do a thing, I had tovisit my kids, blah, blah, it
was a long story.
But then I came back and when Isaw all the people dressed up
(26:41):
on the street and I go throughthat show in masquerade, and
everyone looks amazing.
I was like, this is incredible.
Because it just makes them feellike it's like, oh, I don't,
you know, it lowers the barfragmentally of what I have to
do because they feel so special,you know, already.
And they feel like this is aspecial night.
And it's kind of maybe whattheater used to be.
(27:02):
You know, I just remember beingin my really young days, you'd
kind of dress up for thetheater, which is such a
mind-blowing thought now.
And that did something.
That it it changed your sort ofattitude, your, I don't know if
the right words, respect, butyour investment certainly in in
what you were doing.
So I think that's that's one ofthe ways I deal with that,
Damien, is like put, you know,put, I guess, restrictions is
(27:23):
how my theater friends werelike, this will never work.
You know, you're making itharder for them.
And I think I'm making it morefun and letting them play along
more.
And it's so it's a funny, it'sa complete 180 um from what any
intelligent, you know, I'm doingquotation marks if you're not
watching this, intelligentperson would do.
And I think I make a lot ofdecisions that aren't
intelligent, and that's whatmakes them so fun, you know.
Damian Bazadona (27:46):
It seems as much as a nightlife mindset as
it does a theater.
This, I mean, this is yourcareer.
How you merge those twocomponents of I mean, I teach it
for years and in differentenvironments.
If you have a country musicnight versus electronic dance
music night, same place,different audience.
If those audiences were werecrisscrossed and the music was
different, the entire experiencewould be different.
They'd go, so it's kind of ayes-end environment where you
(28:07):
want people going who want towant to be there, because that
creates the entire energy, whichis, you know, I guess
one-on-one to any.
But it's hard.
It's hard to actually make ithappen.
Because like in theory, it'slike we want the the customers
who are gonna love this themost, but at the same time, when
you're marketing andadvertising, like doesn't always
play doesn't always play outthat way.
So it's got to be verythoughtful on how it gets put in
(28:27):
and uh and how you'repositioned.
Um, Maureen.
Maureen Andersen (28:31):
I have to say, is um when we started today,
Damien said he was your favoritefan.
I said, I'm I'm your newfavorite fan.
I'm fascinated by how yourbrain works.
So my question is is like isopening your crystal ball.
You've been doing this forover, you know, two decades, and
based on what you're seeing nowand kind of future casting to
(28:51):
where you want to go, what doyou see in the next decade?
That seems really ridiculouslylong, but you know, what do you
see fandom becoming in howradically different do you think
it will be as it evolves?
What do you see?
Randy Weiner (29:06):
I, you know, I've been doing this so long.
I was just doing this on thestreet, I was doing this in my
bedroom, I was doing things inmy bathroom, in the bathtub, you
know what I mean?
Just anything to sort of wakepeople up to like, wow, you can
do this.
And oh my God, this is so crazyand so intense and so so
personal, so unlike anythingI've ever seen before.
And that's those are still thewords that I want people to use
(29:29):
when I when they see what I'mdoing.
But I think now, you know,again, that word immersive or
experiential or, you know, allthese words are becoming more
and more part of our culture.
I mean, maybe it's because, youknow, computers and AI and
everything is becoming moreascendant and part of our
everyday life lives andeverywhere on the news,
(29:51):
everywhere you turn.
And you're just like, oh myGod, could I just have uh a sort
of human experience in theworld?
World, I just feel like brandsare doing it more.
And, you know, restaurants willsay I'm an immersive
restaurant.
I'm like, what does that mean?
Every restaurant, I mean, Ieat, I go there, I sit there,
(30:12):
and I eat the food.
But every, every movies, it'simmersive.
Everyone's using that word.
But I do think now what'shappening is versus when I'm
doing shows like The DonkeyShow, or like all these, you
know, sleep no more.
Now you've got big brands likePhantom of the Opera, who are
saying, okay, we want to be partof this movement.
(30:32):
It was an incredible, I think,leap of faith for Andrew Lloyd
Weber to say, all right, I'mgoing to give you, you know, the
greatest theatrical brand inthe history of the world.
And now just I want you to dothis.
And it speaks to again, he'salways on the sort of leading
edge of these things, as Idiscussed at the beginning of
this.
But I see that more and more.
(30:52):
Like I just know if you lookedin my calendar, like the IPs and
companies I'm dealing with andinvestment companies, like I'm
dealing with like bankers allthe time now.
When it used to be, okay, guys,uh, I'm doing this weird thing.
Here's where you get paid.
I'll take you out every Sundayto a hamburger.
(31:13):
Like literally.
You know, and it's just, it'sjust a completely different
level of, you know, talent beingaccessed and um just interest
in in on every level for themost gifted people in the world.
I mean, it's just it'sextraordinary.
So that's what I see, Maureen,is just this getting, you know,
bigger and bigger and more IPsand more sensitivity um to
(31:37):
what's possible.
I mean, and just again, in thespirit of what I answered
before, doing things at the bestlevel.
You know, again, it's per likewhat Damien you're asking.
Yeah, the things are kind of,you know, not always there might
be a great idea, there might bea great performer, but to get
everything perfect, I thinkthat's gonna start to happen,
you know, more and more, whichis exciting.
Maureen Andersen (31:56):
Well, then I love the factors is that you
know, what I hear from you andgives me great hope for the
future of all of this and theworld in general, is you know,
that human engagement factorthat that's not going away.
In fact, that's gonna beexploited and and heightened,
which I love.
And I wanted to ask you, wealways ask this is is you know,
(32:16):
what are you a fan of?
Uh, what lights you up in theworld and what it gives you in
influence, what influences yourcreative sparks?
Randy Weiner (32:27):
Um you know, left on my own, I think I, you know,
Damien hit me with the GiantsEagles thing.
I I just love live sports.
I think there's something inlive sports, just with the
fandom, with uh competition.
(32:49):
Um and and I think about it allthe time, Maureen.
I literally I just nerd outbeing like I grew up and I lived
in New York since I was eight,but before then I lived in um
Rockville, Maryland.
So our favorite team growing upin my generation, Rockville,
Maryland, was the WashingtonRedskins.
So I go, wow, what is it to bea Washington fan?
(33:12):
It's not the same players.
It's not the, you know, like wetrade players all the time.
They just historically it's noteven the same name.
That was my point.
It's not even the same name.
It's not there's nothing thesame.
And yet, still deep in me, I ama fan of that Washington team,
even when they were just calledthe Washington team.
(33:34):
So I'm just so interested.
What is that connection?
It just it it fascinates me.
And like I could sit here andwe could do a whole other
podcast just talking about whatis that?
What is it that that's fillingfor us as you know human beings?
Um, it is just so interesting.
And and it's something I wantto be part of as a fan, but also
(33:57):
giving to people.
Like that's my to give themsomething that they really love.
And there's there's all thesethere's all these ideas out
there about, you know, do youreach, you know, a million
people or do you reach 10,000people who really love it?
I want to reach 10,000 peoplewho really love it.
And I think if you really reach10,000 people who really love
(34:17):
it, that actually gives you thebest chance of reaching a
million people.
That's in my sort of worldview.
So I think those are the kindof things that interest me.
Is like, what are things peoplejust love?
Like, why is it like everynight before I go to sleep?
I don't look at our box officerap.
I look at like what's the ESPed?
Do you know what I mean?
Like, so it's it's just, it'sjust, and then to understand
(34:40):
that and to deliver that.
And God, I wish I was a betterathlete, or I wish I knew more
about you'll you can ask mykids, they'll be like, oh, daddy
wants to, you know, that's whathe really wishes he could do.
I guess all of us, because Ithink I lead an incredible life,
right?
And ridiculous.
I get to like do crazy shows,but I think like all of us,
there's something else thatbecomes a kind of a love almost
(35:02):
because we didn't do it.
Because maybe I live so much inthe theater, and I'm like, oh
my God, grinding out thiscontract, or you know, the
heater didn't go.
Like, it's so mundane andboring, my life.
And like I look at sports and Iget, I'm like, oh my God,
that's so great.
And I know they're dealing withall the same crap.
The toilet got, you know,flooded on the the you know, the
(35:24):
300 row.
You know what I mean?
Like, so, but it's it's I canlive in the fantasy with that.
Peter Yagecic (35:29):
Well, you're speaking to like why we do this
series, Randy.
I mean, we all we think there'sa power in fandom, and I think
you just uh talked about itreally, really uh concisely, and
we're we're trying to unpackit.
Um, I want to sneak in one morelistener question before I kick
it back to Damien to wrap usup.
You talked about your amazinguh Broadway caliber cast that
(35:49):
has signed on to stay withMasquerade, which is phenomenal.
Is is there any specific adviceyou give performers who may
have a more traditionaltheatrical background uh on ways
to be successful in kind of amore immersive space?
Is there is there anything youtell them to to kind of lean
into it and have fun?
Randy Weiner (36:08):
Well, I think actually, I know this cast, we
really were rigorous becausenormally I'd done my shows and I
have a sort of a usual cast ofcharacters who, you know, do my
nightclubs and will sort ofsneak into my shows.
And there are people who'vealready raised their hands and
said, I want to do immersivetheater.
(36:30):
They were already in that kindof experimental avant-garde kind
of mindset.
And Broadway's an incredibleindustry with these incredible
performers and trained foryears.
And what they didn't train inwas, you know, being an inch
away from a superfat and how doyou deal with that?
(36:50):
And is that something youreally want?
You know?
And we we worked very hard inthe um audition process to
really communicate to them whatthis was gonna be like.
It's kind of I I also, this isone of the things I'm I'm known
for.
If I'm interviewing someone fora job, I start out telling them
all the worst stuff.
Like I go through, this isterrible.
(37:12):
I'm gonna be all over you.
There's no, I might say thisone day, and then the next day
it's that because we don't knowwhat we're doing.
We're kind of making this up.
And if at the end of thatincredibly rigorous, you know,
process someone says, I stillwant to do it, then I'm very
excited to have them.
But I think what's happeningnow, the fact that we're doing
this, um, and these people,these incredible performers are
(37:35):
doing this show, I think they'retelling their friends.
And it means much more, youknow, coming from them, you
know, how to describe what itwhat it is to, because I'm not
an incredible performer, youknow, I'm not Broadway, you
know, to but they can explainand be like, this is why I'm
continuing to do this.
This is what I love about it,this is what's hard about it.
Because there's so many things,like anything, there's so many
(37:58):
things that are hard about it.
So I I would leave it to themto answer your question more
specifically, but I do know toget this cast, I did this
rigorous project that processthat obviously worked.
Damian Bazadona (38:09):
Awesome.
Damien, you want to wrap us up?
Yeah.
Um, hey, Randy, thank you fortaking the time to do this.
Uh, you uh very busy man, uh,and it's just been awesome as as
always as expected.
Um I'm gonna ask you what Ithink is probably a hard
question.
Um you've seen and see a lot ofuh live experiences, immersive
(38:31):
entertainment, new productions.
What do you hope to see less ofin the market?
Uh and I say that with grace.
But you you we see a lot ofstuff, and I'm just curious.
I could ask you a lot ofquestions.
Like, what do you want to seemore of all this stuff?
But what would you like to seeless of from the industry in
terms of maybe some of theexperience that are being
created?
Randy Weiner (38:52):
You know what's so funny?
I um I don't think like that.
You know, and I and I I thinkyou know this, Damien.
That I that's not ever how Ithink about the world because I
only engage with the world thatI sort of want to see.
I think I'm pretty lucky inthat way.
So I don't, there's not a lotof stuff I go to, and like, God,
(39:14):
I wish there was less of it,because sometimes I'll go and
I'm like, well, that wasn't forme, but people love it.
So far be it from me to, youknow, comment on it.
I really engage with the world.
I think as I'm saying this, Ifeel quite lucky that I'm about
to say this because it's true,in just what is my journey in
it.
I just think it's such aamazing.
This is really gonna soundkumbaya, so forgive me because
(39:37):
no one ever thinks of me likethis.
But I just think it's amazing.
I think that's what I loveabout living in New York City.
There's so many things that,and I'm gonna, I'm gonna elevate
it even from just likeimmersive shows or shows or
whatever, to like the entirecity.
I'm like, that restaurant, Iwould never want to go there, or
you know, that museum, what?
You know, like any anythingthat way they did the park,
what?
You know, I can criticize everysingle thing, but that's not at
(40:00):
all where I put my energy.
I put it more kind of whatMaureen was asking me, like,
okay, I didn't like that.
Oh, that's kind of triggeringme.
What didn't I like?
What, you know, what can I doto actually go the opposite way?
And I'm gonna tell yousomething, Damien.
This is the deepest, deepesttruth.
I actually sometimes ampsyched.
(40:21):
I'm like, that's great thatthey're doing these things that
I don't like.
I'm like, that opens the pathmore for me to deliver the
opposite.
Because then when I reach outand touch you in Masquerade,
that's gonna be even moremind-blowing.
Damian Bazadona (40:35):
I would say here's here's the way I would
think about it.
I would say I agree completelyon your point.
Of we worked on probably threeto 400 different productions
over the years, and there isalways an audience for
everything.
That's the amazing thing aboutlive experiences.
What you might like is maybesomething I don't like, and I
think that's amazing.
What I will say that I wouldsay I'd like to see less of is I
(40:56):
think about some of thelaziness that I would say, where
it's where it's chasing more ofthe buck than investing in
experience.
And you could, as a I know theaudiences like to see it.
It makes me happy, but I knowwhen the heart is in the right
place.
And I think you model this, youput your heart into the
investment and it shows anexperience.
Whether I like it or not, Ijust like when people invest for
(41:19):
the consumer.
And that's what I hope to seeless of.
Um so, Randy, thank you.
Uh Peter, you want to take usout?
Peter Yagecic (41:26):
Yeah, uh again, I will second it.
Randy, thank you so much.
That is gonna do it for thisepisode of Phantom Unpacked.
If you liked what you heardtoday, please check out all the
great QA interviews we've doneover at fandomunpack.com or by
searching Phantom Unpacked andfollowing the series in your
podcast player of choice.
We'd also love for you to rateand review the show while you're
at it.
It really helps us grow theshow.
(41:47):
Our next QA interview will bewith Emily Cole from the
Savannah Bananas.
They have been name-checked.
I know they've beenname-checked by so many of our
guests in the past year.
We are thrilled that Emily'sgoing to be joining us next
time.
So please submit your questionsfor that conversation over at
fandomunpack.com.
Until next time, take care anduh have a wonderful week,
(42:07):
everyone.
You're listening to Fandom Unpacked from
Situation and Intix, the podcastseries where we unpack modern
fandom with some of thebrightest minds in sports and
entertainment.
I'm producer Peter Yajisic, andjoining me for today's QA are
Situation CEO and founder DamienBasadana and president and CEO
of Intix, Maureen Anderson.
Our guest today is ImpresarioRandy Weiner, a creative
(00:25):
producer of some of the coolestlive events happening around the
world from Sleep No More to TheBox to this year's Phantom
Masquerade.
Randy's also the founder ofOutside the Box Amusements, a
theatrical production companythat wins over fans by combining
world-class entertainment,bespoke hospitality, and
innovative design.
I'll be back in a bit to askRandy some listener questions
submitted to us atfandomunpack.com.
(00:46):
Damien, would you like to getus underway?
Damian Bazadona (00:49):
I would love to.
Randy, you are widelyconsidered one of the pioneers
of immersive entertainment.
I am I might be your number onefan.
From Sleep No More to Queen ofthe Night to Masquerade, which
is all the buzz right now.
Take us through your thinkingof putting audiences inside of a
story instead of just in frontof it through all these amazing
(01:12):
experiences that you've created.
Randy Weiner (01:14):
I think that is the essence of what got me into
this glamorous and excitingbusiness is just exactly that.
The idea that we can get evenmore into the action as an
audience.
You know, it's funny becausewhen I was doing to do
(01:34):
masquerade, obviously I had totalk to Andrew Lloyd Weber.
And Andrew Lloyd Weber is agenius in so many ways, but on a
very primal level, he is agenius of being a theatrical
empresario himself.
Like these crazy ideas like,hey, why don't we have a
chandelier come crashing down inthe audience?
Why don't we have people onroller skates, roller skate all
(01:57):
around the audience?
And really the signal cardinalmoment in my life was when I
went to see cats as a youngRandy, and I was sitting in the
balcony, and all those cats camerunning off the stage and
started running around thebalcony and touching me.
I was like, oh my God, this isthe craziest thing I've ever
(02:21):
experienced.
And oh my God, you can do thisin the theater.
You can do anything here.
And I really think that set meon this course where I was like,
wow, you know, you can go somuch further in the sort of live
potential of an audience andperformer interaction.
And, you know, we all in thetheater talk about, I was so
(02:42):
touched, you know, in any sortof art form, I was really
touched by it.
But like, you can really touchpeople, you know, that was
really an exciting thing.
So I think that those are likesort of the key things for me is
like, wow, you know, humantouch is a really powerful
thing.
And um if you want to touchpeople, pull out all the stops.
So I was like, why doesn't it?
In a weird way, I feel that wayabout masquerade.
(03:03):
I'm like, once I've done this,isn't everyone gonna want to do
this?
Because it's just so intensewhen the phantom comes up and,
you know, it's great on thephantom, unbelievable singers,
unbelievable music, unbelievableeverything.
But the most important part iswhen he comes up and touches
your shoulder.
I mean, at the end of the day,all this stuff we do, this great
city, all the things we'vebuilt in the world, it it's
(03:27):
really just we give it all upto, you know, have another human
being touch us, right?
I mean, or it's all a way toget someone to touch us, you
know.
So yeah, that's why it's allabout what you asked, Damon.
Damian Bazadona (03:40):
There's been a lot of immersive experiences
that I and by the way, I use theword immersive very carefully
because I know some peopleactually despise that term
because it means so manydifferent things, but we'll just
play along.
There's been a fair number ofnew immersive experiences.
Um, we hear a lot of them thatjust don't pan out to be all
that good for lack of a betterway of framing it.
(04:00):
What is it that you thinkpeople get wrong about it?
And you've seen enough stuff.
Like, what's what do you feellike is usually the missing
sauce that you feel like they'rejust people just aren't
getting?
Randy Weiner (04:09):
Yeah, I I think for me, I just I can only talk
about myself, is I really thinkyou want everything to be great.
Like in opera, you know, likethe sets are great, the music's
great, the singers are great,everything's great.
So I just look at it for mepersonally, that I want
everything to be top of itsclass.
(04:30):
Because that's, you know, Iwant the performers.
I mean, we've got Du Pinero inour Phantom of the Opera in an
immersive.
I can't even believe he's doingit, but he loves it.
You know, he because it's likea new different thing, not to
mention all these guys who arethe stars of Hamilton and Lee
Mizerables.
I mean, it's it's insane thepeople we had, all these women
(04:51):
who were Christines in the show.
So to get the top, top leveltalent is obviously the most
important thing.
And then, you know, then wejust go down by degrees.
And it's like, all right, well,let's get the best set
designers.
All right, let's go get someTony Award-winning set
designers.
Let's go get some, you know,the best lighting designer, the
best everything.
Um, so I think that's how Ithink about it.
(05:13):
Like, I just want everything tobe the absolute best.
And I think sometimes I've seenshows on, wow, that was a
really cool idea, but you didn'texecute it to the level of the
idea.
And I never want that to be me.
You know, I and I and I can't,I'm kind of a like a messed up
perfectionist where I just needeverything to be at the high
level.
And again, when you doimmersive stuff, it's so vast.
(05:35):
I mean, you're because you'rethe theater.
You're you're often the boxoffice yourself, because you
know, you can't just hiretelecharge to do your thing.
You're the F and D staff.
You're the, you're everything.
You know, I'm the ushers.
So it's just a lot.
Like, I think people don'trealize, like, oh, I want to do
an immersive show.
But like, if you're reallydoing an immersive show, every
step of the way, you know,you're you're taking
(05:58):
responsibility for treatingpeople in the in the best
possible manner.
So again, I feel like I'm luckybecause I have a like a big F
and B background also, whichreally taught me to think
differently from theater people.
Because when you're inhospitality, um, it's not
acceptable.
I mean, I think people do atheater show, you just present
your show, and um, you know,some people like it, some people
(06:22):
don't like it.
But for me, that's not goodenough.
I take that kind of 11 MadisonPark, like, oh my God, this
person didn't like it.
Excuse me, sir, can I take out,take away your, you know,
whatever you ordered and giveyou something else?
Do you know what I mean?
Like that, that's how I see theworld.
So, you know, it's likeradical, radical hospitality.
And again, I'm not sure thatmost ticketed people think that
(06:44):
way, you know.
Damian Bazadona (06:44):
And yeah, they I would say that I think one
thing you do exceptionally wellis I think you invest in the
product.
You start there.
You say this thing has to be agreat experience.
You don't necessarily, this isa conversation we've had, but
uh, you don't necessarily startwith the what's the audience
gonna want as much as is this agreat experience that audiences
are going to like?
And I think there's a big partwe've taught, we'll have, I'm
sure we'll get into it laterabout marketing budgets and the
(07:07):
where you make your investmentsis in the experience itself,
which I think is is massivelyimpressive.
One more question before I knowMaureen, uh Maureen to get in.
Um, you know, you builtexperiences, uh, I think of uh
sleep no more, for example,where fans don't just visit
once.
They come three, four, ten, youhear these crazy stories, the
amount of time people come.
(07:27):
And and when I had seen SleepNo More, I just saw people
around me even talking, sayingthis is their fifth time there.
What design, how do you thinkabout that?
Just in terms of whether, Idon't know if you want to call
them design principles orlevers, you were pulling to
like, how do you think aboutthat when you're putting forth
some of these experiences todrive repeat visitation?
Because a lot of people listento this podcast, that's got
that's an envy of like, wow, howdo you kind of keep that type
(07:49):
of retention of people comingback more and more?
Randy Weiner (07:52):
And it's funny, I don't, I never think about that.
I never think, oh, they'regonna come back.
People say that to me all thetime, like, oh Randy, it's great
if we don't, you know, showeverything, show our complete
hand, and there's a way forpeople to come back and see the
whole thing.
And I literally always shutthem down, Damien.
I'm always like, don't thinklike that.
Every time you come has to beabsolutely amazing.
(08:15):
So I actually think it'sbecause we give such an amazing
experience and it is so intimateand it is so personal, you're
gonna come back.
So it's it's it's just it'sjust like a real almost like a
bugaboo of mine.
Like whenever I do this, it'slike they think like I'm so
clever and I've figured out away to like not reveal
everything.
But it's not that at all.
It's it's really justdelivering the best possible
(08:37):
experience, making it the mostpersonal, making an audience
member feel really seen.
You know what I mean?
Like literally, I'm at I was atMasquerade Phantom yesterday,
or two days ago, and um a womancomes up, she's like, This is my
15th time.
And I was like, wow, why do youcome back 15 times?
And she just said, the castknows her because they see her.
(08:58):
It's not like, you know,they're lit up and she's in the
dark and just seeing them.
They're seeing her.
So she just feels like sheknows them and has a real
connection, not to mention mywhole hospitality mode, because
when you go to a restaurant, yougo back to the restaurant a lot
of times.
I'm not interested in like aone-off.
If you have a bar, neighborhoodbar, you want people to come
back all the time.
(09:18):
You want to have your nameknown if you're the customer.
You know what I mean?
And the the people I hire lovethat.
They're into that hospitalitything.
So I think that breeds thisreturn.
I mean, it's funny, like peoplethink I'm much more clever than
I am.
People are much more clevermaybe than than I am.
Maybe that's a better way toput it.
I doubt they think I'm thatclever, but I think they're very
clever and they come up withall these ideas, but that's not
(09:41):
at all what it is.
It's just to deliver the best,most personalized experience
possible.
Damian Bazadona (09:46):
It's a fancy that idea, you know?
Yeah, I know.
Well, that's what's so funny.
It's so funny.
Randy Weiner (09:50):
It's really just going down to like first
principles of like, what are wedoing here and not being stuck
in just okay, well, this is howa show's done.
And it all goes back to thatAndrew Legweibler Katz
experience.
It was like, oh my God, youcould like you can do anything.
You can do anything.
So own that.
And if you're gonna doanything, really go for it.
Really make it, you know, asunique and special as possible.
(10:12):
Don't just stop and be like,well, you know, we did the show
Donkey Show.
I'm gonna tell the story.
We did the show Donkey Show,which happened in a nightclub.
And I don't know if you guysever heard of it, ever saw it.
It was a version of MidsummerNight's Dream.
Happened in a nightclub.
We met so many people who wouldcome up to us like, I want to
do my show in a nightclub.
And I was like, you knowsomething?
You're saying that, but youdon't know what really is to do
a show in a nightclub.
(10:32):
When you do a show in anightclub, you have to do the
kind of show where when thebarbacks are carrying, you know,
all these empty glasses goingclink, clink, clink, clink,
clink, clink, clink, you know,making so much noise, that has
to be part of your show.
So it's like people seesometimes the things I do and
they take the little bits of itthat they want, you know, they
think, oh, it's cool to do ashow in a nightclub, or oh, you
(10:53):
know, you don't have to pay asmuch rent because the bar pays
for everything.
Yeah, but it's it, you have toaccept that a waiter is going to
come by in the middle of yourshow and serve a drink.
And then some people would say,oh, can we use your venue, this
club I was running for the umfor a show?
And it just wouldn't work outbecause they'd be like, shh, you
know, like, no, that's not it.
You know, you have to meet thevenue at where it is, you have
(11:15):
to meet the audience where theyare.
Maureen Andersen (11:17):
So I I love the analogy.
It's kind of like everybodythinking they can just be Mickey
and Judy.
I've got a barn, my mom willmake costumes, let's do a show.
So it and in when you said thepart about taking bits, you
know, these experiences arepopping up kind of everywhere.
Denver, Charlotte, London, LasVegas, most certainly.
(11:38):
Is are you taking, are youpaying attention to those and
taking bits from them, either ininspiration or things, oh, I
don't want to do that, or youknow, do they inspire you?
Are you paying attention tothat stuff?
Yeah.
Randy Weiner (11:52):
Um I, you know, this is the kind of experience I
like, is when it's reallyintense and when you really
connect with people.
That's the part I love.
You know, this speaks to whatDamien was saying, Maureen, like
the immersive.
Immersive is an enormouscategory.
So when I go to a, you know,I'll use Van Gogh as like the
the biggest name in thatindustry.
(12:14):
When they put a bunch of VanGogh pictures on the wall, that
to me is like not the part of itthat's interesting to me.
You know what I mean?
Great, interesting to lots ofpeople, not interesting to me.
So when you talk about shows, II will I do go to the Van Gogh
when I go to those projectionshows.
Um, and I get very little outof them.
And in a way that reinforcesfor me, God, it's so important
(12:34):
to have human beings.
I mean, like, yes, I love goingto see all these things, and
they always turn me on.
Sometimes they turn me onbecause of a negative response.
Sometimes they'll turn me onbecause of a positive thing.
Um, and it's it's really like avery small group of people
still who are in immersive.
You know what I mean?
Like, there's probably like 10of us who are really like doing
(12:58):
the kind of immersive wheresomebody buys a ticket.
You know, there's a lot ofpeople who do an immersive thing
for a brand, or you know,there's all sorts of immersive
things that are going on.
But when you're saying, hey,I'm delivering something that's
so awesome that you're gonna payfor it and you're gonna love it
so much at the end, you'regonna tell your friends to pay
for it.
That's like a whole otherlevel, obviously, from like,
(13:18):
hey, I did a one-off andeveryone came for free, and you
know, and I do those too.
Um, but you know, that it'sjust that there's a very small
squad of people.
And I'm and I feel verypersonally close to all those
people.
Like honestly, I I just youjust see them, and they're like,
we're all just trying to figurethis thing out that is far from
being figured out.
Maureen Andersen (13:36):
Well, in that of that whole conversation about
figuring it out is that yourcompany, your website, what you
talked about earlier is that youlike marrying that concept of
the of absolute world-classentertainment with hospitality
and design so that it's likethis whole package.
And in practice, I'm curious: is that what does that (13:53):
undefined
combination unlock?
And what does it do for youraudiences?
How does that change them?
Randy Weiner (14:04):
I think audiences come in to these experiences
because, again, it is so new,wanting very different things.
I think there's people who comein and they actually want a
story.
And when you talk about SleepNo More, that's my own show in a
way.
I learned a lot from that.
Because there are a lot ofpeople who leave that show and
be like extremely disappointed,you know, frustrated that they
(14:25):
there wasn't a story and justfelt like it didn't add up to
anything.
So, again, that's why for me,what I learned is like, I want
to try something likeMasquerade.
I want to try something whereactually people, everyone's
gonna go in and understand thestory and laugh at a specific
point and cry at the end, andyou know, imagine themselves
either as Phantom or Christine,you know, and really deliver
(14:47):
that to people.
So I I think to do everythingthen well, like then allows more
people to come because that's acertain kind of person who
wants the story and wants thedramatic kind of tension and
emotion at the end.
There's another side who justgoes in and they're just like,
oh my god, just being in thisspace is so overwhelming and
(15:08):
like so cool.
And like, you're kidding, I'min the Phantom's world.
And for them, I want it to belike they fully entered the
phantom world of their dreams.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, like whatever theywished, I want, I just
desperately want to deliverthem.
So, like we put in a milliondollar, literally a million
dollar chandelier that's twiceas big as the one on Broadway.
(15:29):
Has instead of the one onBroadway, has like, you know,
plastic crystals because it hasto be a reasonable weight.
We went nuts.
We're like, let's use realcrystals because you're right
next to it.
We you can't get away withstagecraft.
So, you know, like that.
So I think it just I just keepgoing.
Like every single aspect of it,I want to be the best because
there's gonna be differentaudiences that were looking for
(15:50):
whatever that thing is.
Um, and I want it, and again,there's people who want the
story, but then there's peoplewho all they live for is the
secret one-on-one in Phantomwhere a character takes you into
a corner and talks to you.
And I want to do that, and Ialso want to do that incredibly
well.
So well, it's great.
Maureen Andersen (16:06):
I mean, it's like the advanced.
I mean, they, you know,everybody wants to get a letter
from OG.
I mean, that's you know, partof it.
It's like they feel that.
So it it kind of makes youraudiences really become the
characters and yourcollaborators.
I mean, they drive some ofthis, they're your
co-conspirators.
And how do you change theemotional stakes for the
audience, keep that urgency andagency vital and and and so
(16:31):
intrinsic to the experience?
Randy Weiner (16:34):
Yeah, I think what's important is there's
there, I always say this whenyou do immersive theater with
human beings, it is a dance.
It's truly a dance.
So you rehearse it, and there'sjust the performers, but they
don't have their partner calledthe audience.
So I think you're justsensitive in the dance.
Like, how does a dance stayinteresting?
It's like you do a subtle thingthis way one day, and then your
(16:57):
partner reacts subtly inresponse to that.
And that that's really whatthis is about.
So it just even take, I mean,this is gonna answer sort of
both the questions.
Like when you talk about thegiveaways and the OG letters, I
don't know if you're saying thatbecause that's something you
want in Maureen, or you know, wedo that all over the place.
So that we give away, oh, yep.
So we all I I totally agree.
(17:17):
That was the perfect answerbecause I want it, I know I want
it, so we put in the show.
But then when we're doing,we're like, you know, these
letters, people are holdingthese letters in their hands.
So on stage, you know, theydon't have to be, you know,
hundred-pound weight, finestationary.
For us, they do, because you'regonna handle that thing.
And how does it getinteresting?
(17:38):
Is is then we're like, oh,actually, we could add another
letter here.
I don't know, like it'sconstant for the performers,
constant, like, oh my God, whenwe did that dance step that
time, they reacted this way, andthat gives me an idea.
I want to do, I have two extraminutes.
I want to take people over hereand do a one-on-one.
So it just creates so muchenergy, you know what I mean, of
just exploration and reallybeing alive.
(17:59):
And you just never run throughyour paces.
I mean, it's not like aBroadway show.
And I thought that was gonna bea thing that would just, I
mean, just it's so much energyas a performer to like every
time have to react to, you know,what's going on.
But actually, it just makes youfeel alive.
And all these performers, Isaid this, I feel like I've said
this to you guys, but like, youknow, the people started and
(18:22):
this project and they were allon six-month contracts, and
they're all, you know, Broadwaycredits the star of Lynn
Isarables, the star of Hamilton,Dupanero, the star of, you
know, Phantom of the Opera.
Everyone's star, star, star.
And then I thought, okay,they're gonna do this, and
they're gonna be like, okay,that was fun.
Now I'm out of here.
And I was like, oh my God, oursecond cast is how we're gonna
find a second cast.
(18:42):
Are they ever gonna be as goodas the first cast?
They've all signed up to be inthe show.
They've all signed up again,because I think being that
alive, like you know, Maureen,like being that alive just as a
human being is a turn-on, as anactor who wants to feel so alive
is such a turn-on.
And I and I think it's theaudiences in your face that sort
of bring that on.
Maureen Andersen (19:05):
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Hey Peter, you had a reallygreat question from an audience
member.
Peter Yagecic (19:46):
Yeah, we have a listener question that uh kind
of goes a little bit deeper onwhat you were talking about a
minute ago, Randy, with theletter.
Uh, but this was this was aboutthe Sleep No More mask.
Uh, this person said, I lovedSleep No More, and I still have
my mask hanging in the corner ofmy office.
Can you talk about the value ofhaving a physical memento or
keepsake of an amazing immersiveexperience?
(20:06):
Also, has anyone ever stolen aprop from a show to create their
own keepsake?
Yeah.
Randy Weiner (20:13):
Um again, just to speak to my absolute luck or,
you know, whatever is making allthese things make more sense to
you guys as you talk about itthan when I was sort of thinking
of these things.
You know, we worked with PunchDrunk, and um they had done many
mask shows.
They were the designers anddirectors and creators of Slip
(20:33):
No More.
And they never gave their masksout.
They would just collect themasks at the end and swab it
down with alcohol.
But I am a horrible, horriblegermophobe.
And I was like, no way are wedoing that.
No way.
We're gonna like, we will gofigure out a way to source those
(20:53):
masks in China, whatever ittakes to make those masks
semi-reasonably something we cangive away.
And from that, the greatestmarketing idea was born.
That wow, people take away themask.
But honestly, that wasn't why Ithought to do that.
It was really just like, ohGod.
So I I I love that.
I love that people like Damienprobably think I'm really a
(21:14):
genius marketer.
And you know, you discover thatpeople want things, you know,
and there's certain things I'mlike, okay, these people want
these things.
We're gonna let these thingsgo.
And then the other things,they'll try and take those
things too, and then we'll haveto honestly nail those things
down.
You know what I mean?
So, so I'm I'm a lot of thingsare just luck.
(21:37):
Like I literally just luckedinto it.
And because the rules are sonascent, you know, like no one
knows how you're like, no oneknows.
Are you like when when you insleep number one we said fortune
favors the bold?
What did that mean?
That's what was the line wesaid to everyone who walked in.
It was such a new form, no oneknew what that meant.
Did that mean you could takethings?
Did not take things?
(21:57):
Are you supposed to grab theperformers?
I don't know.
We're we're kind of relying onsome unspoken kind of back and
forth.
It doesn't even happen inDonkey Show.
Um, my wife, Diane, was thedirector of Donkey Show.
Literally, she jokes aboutthis.
Donkey Show was a show.
We did midsummer night streamsset in a nightclub.
So it really felt like it was aclub.
(22:17):
And people would be like, oh myGod, that was so brilliant when
you did Donkey Show, it waslike a club.
But when we first did DonkeyShow, people would come and sit
down on the floor because theydidn't know, oh, you're supposed
to behave like a club.
They were just like, oh, we'rehere to see a show.
They literally would just sitdown in the middle of a dance
floor and sort of watch theproceedings.
And you'd just be like, oh myGod.
So there's a little bit alsoof, you know, figuring out and
(22:40):
early adopters teaching peoplewhat's appropriate and us sort
of helping guide that, but alsoset limits.
So when you talk about takingstuff, it's a very dangerous
subject for me because I wantpeople to take things, but not
too many things, if that makessense.
But yes, we we sort of have to,again, that's a dance.
We're figuring out, you know,what are we gonna let them take?
(23:02):
And the rest we kind of nail itdashed.
Damian Bazadona (23:04):
I love it.
Damien, now back to you for thenext question.
Sure.
But by the way, I went toDonkey Show.
I didn't know I was going toDonkey Show, and someone said,
Meet me there.
And I met them there.
I was waiting in line, and Ihave no idea this is an
interactive show.
And I guess one of the actorsand performers used to work the
line, right?
And say something.
He's like, hey, baby, likewhatever.
I'm like, yo, you got to backup.
Meanwhile, I had no idea thisis an immersive show, which is
(23:25):
just actually ridiculouslyfunny.
So I was like, no, then Damien,it's all part of the show.
I was like, oh, okay, nice tosee you.
Randy Weiner (23:30):
Yeah, and can you imagine how many day means there
are like that for every show Ido?
They're like, what is going onhere?
What am I supposed to do?
So it creates all sorts ofcrazy things happen.
And and that becomes the fuel.
Like for Maureen, your questionof like, oh, that was cool.
We never expected someone toact like that.
Damian Bazadona (23:48):
So I love it.
Uh I was like, next time Ishould read someone's email
because I just actually showedup.
Um how do you think about theaudience makeup as a central
character?
We talked a little bit about,we we talked before about how
the audience kind of plays amajor role.
But for any live event, likewho you're standing next to is
ultimately a huge part of theoverall experience.
(24:08):
Uh the extreme example, I'll goto the sports world.
I'm a Giants fan.
And me watching a football gameat, I don't know, Eagle Stadium
is very much different thanwatching that same game at
NetLife Stadium.
So I know the immersivelandscape deals with this
question a lot about cultivatingthe audience, like how you're
(24:29):
kind of making that.
How do you think about that?
Just curious.
Randy Weiner (24:32):
Um, I think about it absolutely because the
audience in my shows to date hasalways been such a part of the
show.
So you take Donkey Showhistorically.
Like Donkey Show, the audiencewas in the show.
I mean, they're, you know, bythe time they figured out not to
sit on the floor, they'redancing around, and that energy
is creating the show.
(24:54):
So that was quite easy becauseit was disco music and it was
fun, and we figured out how todo a pre-show to warm the
audience up, to sort of get theminto, you know, one body.
That's that kind of a, I almostfeel like a Peter Brook term.
It's like, how do you takeeveryone?
And I get when you're talkingabout the, you know, whatever,
the Eagles versus the Giants,those guys are like competing.
Luckily, we're not competing,so we don't have that high a bar
(25:16):
to like make a kumbaya momentbetween the people of
Philadelphia and and New York.
But I think to get them in asimilar place is really
important.
Um, so sleep no more, what wasthe solution for that?
That was a mast.
You know what I mean?
So that then people are coming,they're all dressed kind of
different.
They're all different heights,different this, different that.
But the mask sort of made themuniform because when they start
(25:38):
to have too much individuality,unless you're really taking that
directly into the experience,like we did in the Donkey show,
because we could have someonewho's like a freak, wants to
dance like crazy, and we had away to integrate that into the
show.
Like a great dancer would getup and have moments like that.
But then you get to masquerade,and that's where we really
dialed up sort of the groupexperience of it, because we
(25:59):
said you have to wear white,black, silver, you need to wear
formal wear or cocktail wear.
You have to, we're gonna, youeither bring your own mask or
we're gonna give you a mask.
And all the theater people, thetraditional theater, are like,
that's impossible.
You know, this is already acrazy idea.
That's idiotic.
You're gonna keep your audienceaway.
(26:20):
And I'm like, no, I thinkthat's part of the buy-in.
That's part of the fun, isyou're gonna look great.
You're gonna be going to thisball that the phantom is giving.
And um, I think that that'sbeen an incredibly successful
part.
I mean, I when I get I hadn'tbeen there for a while because I
had to do a thing, I had tovisit my kids, blah, blah, it
was a long story.
But then I came back and when Isaw all the people dressed up
(26:41):
on the street and I go throughthat show in masquerade, and
everyone looks amazing.
I was like, this is incredible.
Because it just makes them feellike it's like, oh, I don't,
you know, it lowers the barfragmentally of what I have to
do because they feel so special,you know, already.
And they feel like this is aspecial night.
And it's kind of maybe whattheater used to be.
(27:02):
You know, I just remember beingin my really young days, you'd
kind of dress up for thetheater, which is such a
mind-blowing thought now.
And that did something.
That it it changed your sort ofattitude, your, I don't know if
the right words, respect, butyour investment certainly in in
what you were doing.
So I think that's that's one ofthe ways I deal with that,
Damien, is like put, you know,put, I guess, restrictions is
(27:23):
how my theater friends werelike, this will never work.
You know, you're making itharder for them.
And I think I'm making it morefun and letting them play along
more.
And it's so it's a funny, it'sa complete 180 um from what any
intelligent, you know, I'm doingquotation marks if you're not
watching this, intelligentperson would do.
And I think I make a lot ofdecisions that aren't
intelligent, and that's whatmakes them so fun, you know.
Damian Bazadona (27:46):
It seems as much as a nightlife mindset as
it does a theater.
This, I mean, this is yourcareer.
How you merge those twocomponents of I mean, I teach it
for years and in differentenvironments.
If you have a country musicnight versus electronic dance
music night, same place,different audience.
If those audiences were werecrisscrossed and the music was
different, the entire experiencewould be different.
They'd go, so it's kind of ayes-end environment where you
(28:07):
want people going who want towant to be there, because that
creates the entire energy, whichis, you know, I guess
one-on-one to any.
But it's hard.
It's hard to actually make ithappen.
Because like in theory, it'slike we want the the customers
who are gonna love this themost, but at the same time, when
you're marketing andadvertising, like doesn't always
play doesn't always play outthat way.
So it's got to be verythoughtful on how it gets put in
(28:27):
and uh and how you'repositioned.
Um, Maureen.
Maureen Andersen (28:31):
I have to say, is um when we started today,
Damien said he was your favoritefan.
I said, I'm I'm your newfavorite fan.
I'm fascinated by how yourbrain works.
So my question is is like isopening your crystal ball.
You've been doing this forover, you know, two decades, and
based on what you're seeing nowand kind of future casting to
(28:51):
where you want to go, what doyou see in the next decade?
That seems really ridiculouslylong, but you know, what do you
see fandom becoming in howradically different do you think
it will be as it evolves?
What do you see?
Randy Weiner (29:06):
I, you know, I've been doing this so long.
I was just doing this on thestreet, I was doing this in my
bedroom, I was doing things inmy bathroom, in the bathtub, you
know what I mean?
Just anything to sort of wakepeople up to like, wow, you can
do this.
And oh my God, this is so crazyand so intense and so so
personal, so unlike anythingI've ever seen before.
And that's those are still thewords that I want people to use
(29:29):
when I when they see what I'mdoing.
But I think now, you know,again, that word immersive or
experiential or, you know, allthese words are becoming more
and more part of our culture.
I mean, maybe it's because, youknow, computers and AI and
everything is becoming moreascendant and part of our
everyday life lives andeverywhere on the news,
(29:51):
everywhere you turn.
And you're just like, oh myGod, could I just have uh a sort
of human experience in theworld?
World, I just feel like brandsare doing it more.
And, you know, restaurants willsay I'm an immersive
restaurant.
I'm like, what does that mean?
Every restaurant, I mean, Ieat, I go there, I sit there,
(30:12):
and I eat the food.
But every, every movies, it'simmersive.
Everyone's using that word.
But I do think now what'shappening is versus when I'm
doing shows like The DonkeyShow, or like all these, you
know, sleep no more.
Now you've got big brands likePhantom of the Opera, who are
saying, okay, we want to be partof this movement.
(30:32):
It was an incredible, I think,leap of faith for Andrew Lloyd
Weber to say, all right, I'mgoing to give you, you know, the
greatest theatrical brand inthe history of the world.
And now just I want you to dothis.
And it speaks to again, he'salways on the sort of leading
edge of these things, as Idiscussed at the beginning of
this.
But I see that more and more.
(30:52):
Like I just know if you lookedin my calendar, like the IPs and
companies I'm dealing with andinvestment companies, like I'm
dealing with like bankers allthe time now.
When it used to be, okay, guys,uh, I'm doing this weird thing.
Here's where you get paid.
I'll take you out every Sundayto a hamburger.
(31:13):
Like literally.
You know, and it's just, it'sjust a completely different
level of, you know, talent beingaccessed and um just interest
in in on every level for themost gifted people in the world.
I mean, it's just it'sextraordinary.
So that's what I see, Maureen,is just this getting, you know,
bigger and bigger and more IPsand more sensitivity um to
(31:37):
what's possible.
I mean, and just again, in thespirit of what I answered
before, doing things at the bestlevel.
You know, again, it's per likewhat Damien you're asking.
Yeah, the things are kind of,you know, not always there might
be a great idea, there might bea great performer, but to get
everything perfect, I thinkthat's gonna start to happen,
you know, more and more, whichis exciting.
Maureen Andersen (31:56):
Well, then I love the factors is that you
know, what I hear from you andgives me great hope for the
future of all of this and theworld in general, is you know,
that human engagement factorthat that's not going away.
In fact, that's gonna beexploited and and heightened,
which I love.
And I wanted to ask you, wealways ask this is is you know,
(32:16):
what are you a fan of?
Uh, what lights you up in theworld and what it gives you in
influence, what influences yourcreative sparks?
Randy Weiner (32:27):
Um you know, left on my own, I think I, you know,
Damien hit me with the GiantsEagles thing.
I I just love live sports.
I think there's something inlive sports, just with the
fandom, with uh competition.
(32:49):
Um and and I think about it allthe time, Maureen.
I literally I just nerd outbeing like I grew up and I lived
in New York since I was eight,but before then I lived in um
Rockville, Maryland.
So our favorite team growing upin my generation, Rockville,
Maryland, was the WashingtonRedskins.
So I go, wow, what is it to bea Washington fan?
(33:12):
It's not the same players.
It's not the, you know, like wetrade players all the time.
They just historically it's noteven the same name.
That was my point.
It's not even the same name.
It's not there's nothing thesame.
And yet, still deep in me, I ama fan of that Washington team,
even when they were just calledthe Washington team.
(33:34):
So I'm just so interested.
What is that connection?
It just it it fascinates me.
And like I could sit here andwe could do a whole other
podcast just talking about whatis that?
What is it that that's fillingfor us as you know human beings?
Um, it is just so interesting.
And and it's something I wantto be part of as a fan, but also
(33:57):
giving to people.
Like that's my to give themsomething that they really love.
And there's there's all thesethere's all these ideas out
there about, you know, do youreach, you know, a million
people or do you reach 10,000people who really love it?
I want to reach 10,000 peoplewho really love it.
And I think if you really reach10,000 people who really love
(34:17):
it, that actually gives you thebest chance of reaching a
million people.
That's in my sort of worldview.
So I think those are the kindof things that interest me.
Is like, what are things peoplejust love?
Like, why is it like everynight before I go to sleep?
I don't look at our box officerap.
I look at like what's the ESPed?
Do you know what I mean?
Like, so it's it's just, it'sjust, and then to understand
(34:40):
that and to deliver that.
And God, I wish I was a betterathlete, or I wish I knew more
about you'll you can ask mykids, they'll be like, oh, daddy
wants to, you know, that's whathe really wishes he could do.
I guess all of us, because Ithink I lead an incredible life,
right?
And ridiculous.
I get to like do crazy shows,but I think like all of us,
there's something else thatbecomes a kind of a love almost
(35:02):
because we didn't do it.
Because maybe I live so much inthe theater, and I'm like, oh
my God, grinding out thiscontract, or you know, the
heater didn't go.
Like, it's so mundane andboring, my life.
And like I look at sports and Iget, I'm like, oh my God,
that's so great.
And I know they're dealing withall the same crap.
The toilet got, you know,flooded on the the you know, the
(35:24):
300 row.
You know what I mean?
Like, so, but it's it's I canlive in the fantasy with that.
Peter Yagecic (35:29):
Well, you're speaking to like why we do this
series, Randy.
I mean, we all we think there'sa power in fandom, and I think
you just uh talked about itreally, really uh concisely, and
we're we're trying to unpackit.
Um, I want to sneak in one morelistener question before I kick
it back to Damien to wrap usup.
You talked about your amazinguh Broadway caliber cast that
(35:49):
has signed on to stay withMasquerade, which is phenomenal.
Is is there any specific adviceyou give performers who may
have a more traditionaltheatrical background uh on ways
to be successful in kind of amore immersive space?
Is there is there anything youtell them to to kind of lean
into it and have fun?
Randy Weiner (36:08):
Well, I think actually, I know this cast, we
really were rigorous becausenormally I'd done my shows and I
have a sort of a usual cast ofcharacters who, you know, do my
nightclubs and will sort ofsneak into my shows.
And there are people who'vealready raised their hands and
said, I want to do immersivetheater.
(36:30):
They were already in that kindof experimental avant-garde kind
of mindset.
And Broadway's an incredibleindustry with these incredible
performers and trained foryears.
And what they didn't train inwas, you know, being an inch
away from a superfat and how doyou deal with that?
(36:50):
And is that something youreally want?
You know?
And we we worked very hard inthe um audition process to
really communicate to them whatthis was gonna be like.
It's kind of I I also, this isone of the things I'm I'm known
for.
If I'm interviewing someone fora job, I start out telling them
all the worst stuff.
Like I go through, this isterrible.
(37:12):
I'm gonna be all over you.
There's no, I might say thisone day, and then the next day
it's that because we don't knowwhat we're doing.
We're kind of making this up.
And if at the end of thatincredibly rigorous, you know,
process someone says, I stillwant to do it, then I'm very
excited to have them.
But I think what's happeningnow, the fact that we're doing
this, um, and these people,these incredible performers are
(37:35):
doing this show, I think they'retelling their friends.
And it means much more, youknow, coming from them, you
know, how to describe what itwhat it is to, because I'm not
an incredible performer, youknow, I'm not Broadway, you
know, to but they can explainand be like, this is why I'm
continuing to do this.
This is what I love about it,this is what's hard about it.
Because there's so many things,like anything, there's so many
(37:58):
things that are hard about it.
So I I would leave it to themto answer your question more
specifically, but I do know toget this cast, I did this
rigorous project that processthat obviously worked.
Damian Bazadona (38:09):
Awesome.
Damien, you want to wrap us up?
Yeah.
Um, hey, Randy, thank you fortaking the time to do this.
Uh, you uh very busy man, uh,and it's just been awesome as as
always as expected.
Um I'm gonna ask you what Ithink is probably a hard
question.
Um you've seen and see a lot ofuh live experiences, immersive
(38:31):
entertainment, new productions.
What do you hope to see less ofin the market?
Uh and I say that with grace.
But you you we see a lot ofstuff, and I'm just curious.
I could ask you a lot ofquestions.
Like, what do you want to seemore of all this stuff?
But what would you like to seeless of from the industry in
terms of maybe some of theexperience that are being
created?
Randy Weiner (38:52):
You know what's so funny?
I um I don't think like that.
You know, and I and I I thinkyou know this, Damien.
That I that's not ever how Ithink about the world because I
only engage with the world thatI sort of want to see.
I think I'm pretty lucky inthat way.
So I don't, there's not a lotof stuff I go to, and like, God,
(39:14):
I wish there was less of it,because sometimes I'll go and
I'm like, well, that wasn't forme, but people love it.
So far be it from me to, youknow, comment on it.
I really engage with the world.
I think as I'm saying this, Ifeel quite lucky that I'm about
to say this because it's true,in just what is my journey in
it.
I just think it's such aamazing.
This is really gonna soundkumbaya, so forgive me because
(39:37):
no one ever thinks of me likethis.
But I just think it's amazing.
I think that's what I loveabout living in New York City.
There's so many things that,and I'm gonna, I'm gonna elevate
it even from just likeimmersive shows or shows or
whatever, to like the entirecity.
I'm like, that restaurant, Iwould never want to go there, or
you know, that museum, what?
You know, like any anythingthat way they did the park,
what?
You know, I can criticize everysingle thing, but that's not at
(40:00):
all where I put my energy.
I put it more kind of whatMaureen was asking me, like,
okay, I didn't like that.
Oh, that's kind of triggeringme.
What didn't I like?
What, you know, what can I doto actually go the opposite way?
And I'm gonna tell yousomething, Damien.
This is the deepest, deepesttruth.
I actually sometimes ampsyched.
(40:21):
I'm like, that's great thatthey're doing these things that
I don't like.
I'm like, that opens the pathmore for me to deliver the
opposite.
Because then when I reach outand touch you in Masquerade,
that's gonna be even moremind-blowing.
Damian Bazadona (40:35):
I would say here's here's the way I would
think about it.
I would say I agree completelyon your point.
Of we worked on probably threeto 400 different productions
over the years, and there isalways an audience for
everything.
That's the amazing thing aboutlive experiences.
What you might like is maybesomething I don't like, and I
think that's amazing.
What I will say that I wouldsay I'd like to see less of is I
(40:56):
think about some of thelaziness that I would say, where
it's where it's chasing more ofthe buck than investing in
experience.
And you could, as a I know theaudiences like to see it.
It makes me happy, but I knowwhen the heart is in the right
place.
And I think you model this, youput your heart into the
investment and it shows anexperience.
Whether I like it or not, Ijust like when people invest for
(41:19):
the consumer.
And that's what I hope to seeless of.
Um so, Randy, thank you.
Uh Peter, you want to take usout?
Peter Yagecic (41:26):
Yeah, uh again, I will second it.
Randy, thank you so much.
That is gonna do it for thisepisode of Phantom Unpacked.
If you liked what you heardtoday, please check out all the
great QA interviews we've doneover at fandomunpack.com or by
searching Phantom Unpacked andfollowing the series in your
podcast player of choice.
We'd also love for you to rateand review the show while you're
at it.
It really helps us grow theshow.
(41:47):
Our next QA interview will bewith Emily Cole from the
Savannah Bananas.
They have been name-checked.
I know they've beenname-checked by so many of our
guests in the past year.
We are thrilled that Emily'sgoing to be joining us next
time.
So please submit your questionsfor that conversation over at
fandomunpack.com.
Until next time, take care anduh have a wonderful week,
(42:07):
everyone.
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