#142 | Beyond the Private: What It Takes to Get A Commercial | FAR 61.129 - FAR AIM | Aviation Reg's | Aeronautical Info | FARAIM

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Far End Podcast.
This is Q2 of 2025.
We are not promising quarterlyreleases, but so far we've done
it in 2025, one and two.
Maybe we'll be a three and or afour and aura 4.

(00:28):
Uh, we've got, yeah, scottboris and lee griffin here and
uh, we're gonna do 61 far 61.129aeronautical experience for a
commercial pilot's certificatenot a license, it's a
certificate um, among otherthings we'll eventually get to
other things, I'm sure.
Yes, so we have.
My rumble is showing the livestream ended.

(00:52):
See you again soon.
That's not good.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
No, not usually.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Okay, it looks like we're back.
So yeah, like we're back, um.
So yeah, basically, if I canpull off um getting some time up
in ohio this summer for like amonth or so, again I was gonna.
My kind of my tentative planwas to fly the you know what off
of scott's airplane to knocksome rust off yeah and uh yeah,

(01:22):
then get scott his commercial.
So we're gonna go through thisbecause I was curious.
I'm like I should probably lookup what is required for Scott
to get his commercial.
If I was going to be giving himsaid instruction for the
commercial, I'd have to pass thewritten.
That would be a hard part too.
If you saw, on Pilot Ground wegot the forum back up.

(01:46):
Link in the descriptionPilotgroundcom.
As of this recording doesn't goto it.
You got to put in somethingelse at the beginning.
I'm not going to say it though,because I want to be able to
remove the link if I want to, incase it gets too crazy with
people signing up and notchatting drives me nuts.

(02:07):
People sign up and then justnot participate.
It's kind of weird.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
But anyway, lost my train of thought but it's a slow
burn on the sign up andparticipate.
You know where there's slowlybeing more stuff.
You know build and spider webshappening, so that's yeah I like
it.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
It's not.
Yeah, just a nice slow growth,not too fast.
Um, I forgot where I what.
What made me lead to that?
Oh, shepherd air.
I was going to try shepherd air.
I made a post about it onshepherd air on uh for my, for

(02:43):
my um advanced ground instructorI was going to get to try to
refresh some of my knowledge,force myself to read a couple
books and then sit for the examyeah but then I thought I don't
really want to, um, I don'treally want to learn.
I don't really want to fail oversomething as stupid as an ag.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Like written.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, so I want to make sure.
Once I read the books, I'm forsure going to pass it, and I
know Ryan Echol had mentionedthat in the past.
Yeah, supposedly it's likecheating, but yeah.
I'm going to see, I'm going tomake a report.
I'm going to go through theShepard air for the AGI.
See what it like.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
I've heard nothing but good things.
I didn't use it.
I've never used it, but I'veheard that all kind of came like
after I was done.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, everyone says, apparently it's the best way to
pass the exam by learningabsolutely nothing about what
the exam's about Sounds like mykind of thing.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
But that's how I think all of those are.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
All those test prep books.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
They're all the same.
I was thinking, I would justask.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
AI and just tell it to tell me everything I need to
know to pass this exam?
I don't think you can haveChatGPT in the exam.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Well, no, you study its response, right, you ask it
yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
I just I use Grok now .

Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yes, naturally.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Image generations, though, as Tyler did, the logo
for PilotGround is a littlebetter On, as Tyler did, the
logo for Pilot Ground is alittle better On ChatGPT, yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Did you see the?

Speaker 1 (04:06):
original one.
Grok made us for Pilot.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Ground?
No, it's pretty rough.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
I'll forward you the link.
If you scroll down far enough,you can see it on Pilot Ground.
Okay, 61.129 aeronauticalexperience.
I'm going to refresh.
Whenever I refresh it comesback.
Is everybody else losing thefeed, or is it just me?
It seems fine to me, but Okay.

(04:29):
Section A 61.129A Alpha For anairplane single engine rating.
This is what Scott would begoing for, except as provided in
paragraph I of this section.
A person who applies for acommercial pilot certificate
with an airplane category andsingle engine class rating must

(04:50):
log at least 250 hours of flighttime as a pilot.
That consists of at least, andthen we'll go into the details.
Scott, are you at 250 yet?
Yeah, I'm at like 287, I think.
Okay, you got your logbookright in front of you, right.
Yeah, Okay so we got thatcovered 289.7.

(05:10):
289.7,.
So you got that, no problem.
Check, check A1,.
This consists of at least sowe're getting into what has to
be within this 250 hours, 100hours in powered aircraft.
You have any time?
Not in powered aircraft?

(05:32):
No, I don't either.
Yeah, would that be hot air, Iguess glider yeah, glider okay,
of which 50 hours must be inairplanes.
You got at least 50 hours inairplanes.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Oh, it's all helicopter, oh shit oh man, oh,
we're gonna have to go forcommercial helicopter, then, who
knows?

Speaker 1 (05:54):
yeah, yeah, I guess we can just go straight to the
chopper yeah well, I I can't beyour cfi yet.
Okay, a hundred hours of pilotin command flight time.
Do you have that?
I'm sure I do yeah you don'thave a separate column in your
logbook for pilot in command.
Probably some, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
I haven't totaled anything he definitely does, but
it's not totaled up okay, I soif I dug out my logbook out of
safe whoa oh wait the last timeI totaled it up.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay, I did total it up, not that long mike talking
in command 174.6.
I mean it's higher than thatnow because that's what I was
gonna guess this isa few pagesback, but so one, I don't know,
180 something, probably okaycheck.
So of that 100 hours ofpiloting command time, 50 hours
has to be in airplanes, which wealready covered right.

(06:46):
Yeah, and then 50 hours incross-country flight.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
This is where it starts getting dicey for
everybody, of which at least 10hours must be in airplanes.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yes, well, it's all airplanes.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
Do you have 50?

Speaker 1 (07:02):
hours, even total in airplanes.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Of cross-country.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Or cross-country?
I mean Probably not, but Iwouldn't think I'm too far off.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
I guessed earlier today that you have probably 30.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah, probably.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Because I'm looking now, I believe you need 10 for
your private and it's prettyridiculous.
I have to look this up.
But yeah, I think you have tohave 10 for your private, so I
was guessing you had 20 morefrom your own, whatever.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
Probably.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Five hours of solo cross-country time for your
private, but I guess you'reprobably 20 to 30.
I'm still going with that andeither way, that's reasonable.
I think to expect so that wasmy original statement was this
cross-country time the nighttime.
That is the valuable time asyou move on.

(08:00):
After that private, those startto become coveted hours.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Wait.
So to get my commercial do Ineed nighttime cross-country?

Speaker 2 (08:10):
We're going to get to that.
But those are normallysatisfied while you're doing the
rating.
That's how the normalprogression would be.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, but do I have to fly my plane at night?

Speaker 2 (08:27):
yes, yes why is that a?
Problem right now yes, well,hold well, hold on.
Well, I guess now's the perfecttime to talk about.
Why don't you rob?
Jump ahead, read this, thepertinent section on that, or I
can, if you want okay, um, okay.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
So there's one hour, there's one two hour
cross-country flight in a singleengine airplane in daytime
conditions.
This is the 20 hours oftraining under part three.
So this is with a cfi thatconsists of a total straight
line distance of more than 100nautical miles from the original
point of departure.
We did that and I've flown somuch in my logbook, scott, that

(09:12):
it's on the same page that Ijust finished.
Yeah, I mean mine probably istoo that was 2018, which is when
I'm trying to get some morehours this summer by flying the
you-know-what off of your plane.
So we did that in 2018.
We got to do that again at night, though, I don't know if that's

(09:33):
in my logbook, it says onetwo-hour cross-country flight in
a single-engine airplane innighttime conditions that
consists of a totalstraight-line distance of more
than 100 nautical miles from theoriginal point of departure.
So we don't have to do thatexact same flight we did uh.

(09:54):
We have to do something thatthat hits at least two hours on
the hobs and uh is at least oneof the airports, is at least 100
nautical miles away from, Iwould say, 88 Delta, which we
did in the daytime.
I was thinking maybe keep it atPort Clinton, for if we're
doing night, we have runwaylights now.

(10:16):
Oh yeah, I forgot about thatthat's pretty fancy yeah, so we
could just come back to here.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, they work good Okay.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah, they look really good driving by at night.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah, okay, I've never flown with them, obviously
, but other peoplelike them.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
We're going to change that this summer.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, it starts getting really hard to do these
nighttime in the summer.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
Because you've got to get super late.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
Super late Because nighttime for logging purposes
isn't until one hour aftersunset.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, that would really not be my sleep score.
And it's sunset, it's like 10pm.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Okay, so you can't even start logging nighttime
until 11 pm, and then you've gotto do a two-hour freaking
flight.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
So that's not the time of year you want to go
doing that stuff.
But well, whatever I mean a, Idon't go up into it up there in
the winter because it's thewinter and it's cold.
Yeah and two, that's, I feel,like the weather.
I'm more comfortable with nighttime, like a good summer night
weather, versus like wintertimeat night up there.
Yeah, like you.

(11:27):
Do.
Get clear days at night in thewinter, that would be beautiful,
but they're few and far between.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
Versus the summertime , where it'd be pretty easy to
just pick your day.
I say we go on a Saturday night.
Sometimes, scott, you skip thedrinking, and then we move that
to the next week, and then youdrink on a Saturday night.
Sometimes, scott, you skip thedrinking, and then we move that
to the next week, and then youdrink on a weekday and we'll
record the Q3 episode.
Yeah, but then it's going tocut into my work.
No, no, no, no, no, it won't,it's fine.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
Yeah, it's fine.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Anyways.
So yeah, that's one of the therequirements I'm going to jump
back up.
So 10 of those hourscross-country have to be in
airplanes of the 50 hours ofcross-country flight check and
check.
So right now we have 250 hourstotal 100 hours in powered
aircraft, 50 hours must be inairplanes, 100 hours of pilot

(12:23):
and command flight time, whichincludes at least 50 hours in
airplanes, which you have, 50hours in cross-country flight,
which we don't.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
You probably might need some more yes, I would say,
I'll guarantee he needs moreyeah I know I had when I was
going from private to commercial.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
I had to just specifically go do some cross
country to hit the 50 because Iwasn't, I wasn't very close, uh,
outside of my like, once I gotmy private and you haven't done
a ton of cross country since yougot your private have you no I
mean most of it's just flyingaround the islands.
Yeah, pretty much.

(13:02):
I mean whatever.
Remember that time we flew towest virginia.
Yeah, that time we took samdown to get that truck.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah but see in that well, and so we come back to you
know you own your own airplaneand if you're trying to, if you
have a goal in which is get the,get the commercial rating a 150
, and owning it starts to make alot of sense, because now it's
not that fast.
So like you're only trying togo past, how many miles, scott?

(13:32):
100.
No, to satisfy a cross country,how many miles is that?

Speaker 1 (13:39):
100 nautical miles right 50, 50 nautical miles.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
Oh, that's it.
Yeah, you have to have a pointof landing more than 50 nautical
miles.
Oh that's it.
Yeah, you have to have a pointof landing more than 50 nautical
miles.
Oh, okay, so 50.1.
So you can go that far.
But in a 150, you get kind ofmore bang for your buck because
the airplane's slower, right,because you're accumulating
hours and once you land over 50,all that counts there and back.
So you kind of get a good bangfor your buck that way.
And you know, instead of peoplelike I got to rent this 172 or

(14:06):
this Aero or whatever that does140 knots and cost me $230 an
hour.
That starts to add up cost andyou're not getting a lot of
hours for it.
Yeah, you can pull the powerback, I guess, and that saves
both ends, but you're paying forit.
It's just I don't know, it justdoesn't make sense.
So it comes back to owning yourown airplane for the ratings.
If you're knocking them out,it's still man.

(14:27):
I still think there's a realbig case for owning your own
airplane?

Speaker 3 (14:30):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
Even though.
But now, if you were to gorebuy your airplane, you
wouldn't do it.
No, you wouldn't buy yourairplane today.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
Oh God no so.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
That's why I don't sell it, because if I sell it,
then it's.
Yeah, you can't replace it, I'mdone.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, yeah exactly yeah, I wish I didn't sell mine.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
Well, coulda woulda shoulda.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
It's water under the bridge, yeah sure yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
It's a pattern whore down in Texas now A pattern
whore.
Well, so you can go ahead andmove on, but, like I was saying,
the cross-country time and thatnighttime, that is the coveted,
that is the hard stuff to getand that's where everybody runs
into the issues.
That's what they have troublesatisfying the nighttime and the

(15:21):
cross-country time satisfyingthe nighttime and the
cross-country time.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
I definitely would have to spend a lot more time in
the airplane flying before Iwould feel comfortable flying at
night again.
Oh, me too, for sure just thethought of it is like giving me
anxiety.
Yeah, and I'd probably have to,even though there's runway
lights there, I'd probably haveto, a couple of times, do what
we used to do when there was norunway lights and just start
when it's still light out andjust keep going around the
pattern as it gets darker anddarker.

(15:46):
Yeah, that's how we used to landthere, without runway lights,
because we just dial that inevery summer a couple of times
yeah and then we'd be good forthe summer.
But I'd feel like doing thatwith lights now just to make
sure I'm good now that I'm older, like I think about things too
much.
Oh, me too, when I was youngerit's like when I was younger,
like yes, I knew that.

(16:07):
Like if the engine quit itwould be a problem, but, like in
my young brain, it was like ehif it happens, I'll figure it
out.
Probably hit a field, it'llprobably be fine.
It's like if the engine quitsat night I'm probably going to
die.

Speaker 3 (16:25):
Yep, you know yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
And like when I was younger, like I just I didn't
think that way.
No it was like even though,like I knew that, like an engine
failure at night is not good.
But in my young mind it waslike, well, I'm going to survive
it.
But in my adult mind it's likelike if this thing quits, I'm

(16:49):
probably gonna die, which makeszero sense, and I've said this
before on the show, that itshould be opposite should right,
it should be you have lessyears right, so you shouldn't be
as worried about it right,whatever, whatever that is
yeah, so you should be lessworried about it.
But it's opposite you you getmore worried about it the older
you get.
When you're young, it's likeGod, I got my entire life ahead
of me.
I should probably be careful soI don't kill myself.

(17:10):
Yeah, but you're not.
You're like eh, let's see whathappens.
Yeah, Probably going to be fine.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
I went almost a step further.
I so do not want to fly asingle-engine airplane at night,
that I bought one that didn'teven have an electrical system.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
I can't fly at night if I wanted to.
Well, that's how I feel aboutgetting this commercial thing.
It's like making me anxious.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, yeah, well, and , like I've always said, that's
why going higher oncross-countries.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, I mean, I get that now.
Like back in the day, I wantedto sightsee and it was like I
don't feel like spending Likehow high would you have to go in
Ohio to do that route and beable to glide to an airport?
We're not talking.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
You're not gliding to an airport.
You're not gliding to anairport.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yeah, you got to write highway or highway.
Yeah, I don't know if you sawthat, mike patey video where he
had that, I forget.
He had a name.
He names all his planes, but hehad this crazy lance air
turbine on it.
Yeah and uh I.
He's one of the contentcreators I try to watch.
I see maybe one video a monthand but I remember one of the
videos I saw was him.
He had an engine blowout.
It was a turbine, it's pt6, Ithink off the king air and uh,

(18:27):
he was going to oshkosh, Ibelieve, or some flying and he,
it blew, completely, exploded inair and he but he was so high
in the air he collided to anairport.
What was he flying?

Speaker 2 (18:39):
it was a lance air like a lance highly modified, I
think he set some sort of speedrecord with it.
Yeah, probably a LancerEvolution.
They do like 380 knots.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
Well, you put a PT6 on it too.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
That's how they come.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
It was crazy.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, that's how they come.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Oh, I thought he modified it with that.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Well, he may have upgraded it from the standard
PT6 that comes on it, but yeah,I don't know the exact Lancer
model.
I don't know anything about thedude.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Maybe I should watch more videos.
Maybe that's what he did, Idon't know.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Well, there's very common Lancers that are very
fast, come with a PT6.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Oh, okay, what was his altitude?
They do like 380 knots.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
High.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
He was up in the flight levels.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
I'm sure he was on oxygen I think yeah, oh, I guess
I don't.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
I don't, then I definitely don't know, because I
thought the evolutions werepressurized, but I'm not really
sure.
I really have no idea.
I mean, that'd take a toll onyour body to be flying, but
either way, yeah, hi, so yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yeah, so think, go ahead.
He was able to glide to anairport which, i'm's say, you
were on your night cross countryin a 150.
What would your altitude be?
Say wind is not a factor.
Wind is not a factor, yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
And I'm going.
So you have to do at least 100nautical mile right.
So you know you can string acouple of them together.
Do we have any multiple airportscenarios in this Went to our
cross country of them together?
Do we have any multiple?

Speaker 3 (20:05):
airport scenarios in this One, two hour cross-country
.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Well, sometimes you have to do more than one point
of landing Alright, so this has.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
So I can tell you exactly what we did for the
daytime one.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
Okay, well, one two-hour cross-country flight in
a single-engine airplane, innighttime conditions.
That consists of a totalstraight-line distance of more
than 100 nautical miles from theoriginal point of departure.
A straight, total straight linedistance of more than 100
nautical miles from the originalpoint of departure.
So that that's it.
So there's only one point oflanding required.
So you could do a couple shortsegments, but as long as one of
them is longer than 100 nauticalmiles, it's all going to count

(20:36):
and satisfy that whole, thewhole scenario we did, we did8
Delta to S24.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
That's Sanofsky County.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
S24 to PLD.
Pld, pld to 8.8D Across theborder in Indiana.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
That's what we got For what it's worth.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, okay, sure, yeah, sure.
So you did.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
I think our altitude was about 2,500 feet yeah 25
feet?
25 feet maybe.
Yeah, we were in sparselypopulated area actually.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
yeah, I don't even from.
From 8a delta to sadowskicounty is for everybody.
That's probably like a 25 or 30nautical mile um leg um I think
we just need fuel.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
I'm probably 3,500 probably.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
I'm thinking probably 25 to 3,500, probably more like
3,500.
Um, the hemispherical rules forthe altitude doesn't start
until 3,000 agl.
So 3,500 around where we livehere.
That's kind of any direction,anything goes.
You can do 3,500 east or west.
So 3,500 is kind of the highestyou can go before you get into

(21:48):
those hemispherical rules thatstart doing odds and evens.
So I'd do 3,500 to get overSeneski County.
Then after that it'd be headingwest still.
So I'd be 6,500, 8,500.
When I brought my Super Cubhome I came at 8,500.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yeah, so, and that was in the daytime.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
so well, yeah, this was in the daytime when we did
it this last time, yeah, yeah, Imean, I don't know what the
aversion is.
Obviously, you know I wasclimbing into a headwind at the
time, but options were important.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Options were important to me then did you fly
over some terrain coming backfrom pennsylvania?

Speaker 2 (22:25):
yeah, it was all kind of like hilly the alleghenies,
whatever we're gonna get intothis trip after this, for sure
I'm so I'm just saying don't beafraid to go higher, because it
gives you those gliding wellthat's what I was thinking we
might have gone a little higher.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
We were still I don't know.
Scott was a little timid.
I had just come off of bannertowing and stuff, so I was just
like you know.
I made it through that withoutdying, like it's cross-country
flight's gonna be easy.
Yeah, I was.
I was nervous, I mean, I just Iwould be, I don't know I'm, I'm
just I'm uncomfortable in myplane right now.

(23:01):
That's, that's yeah, I don'thave a plane anymore, but that's
kind of how I am it's onlynatural.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, I mean it's only natural and that's just the
way it is I did a flight reviewin 2023.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
It's on the same page as, uh, the 2018 flight.
We did scott with lee in yourplane and, uh, it was terrifying
.
I mean, lee wanted me to flythrough some rain.
Oh hell no, it was basicallylike hard IFR to me.
Lee said it wasn't even close.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
You might as well.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
Just nose it into the ground at that point.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
To me it felt like Pull the chute, pull the chute,
pull the chute.
There's rain on the windshield.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Pull the chute.
I kept trying to explain to Leethat this aircraft is not
certified for hard IFr and leekept laughing at me saying this
is a little bit of rain.
We can see the island still, sothere was a little disagreement
on the visibility it's notcertified for flight in a known
precipitation yeah, you, uh, Iwas getting wet in your airplane

(24:00):
was it coming in the vent?
It was coming in the vent.
It was coming in the vent.
I was getting, my legs were wet.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
This was in the 150, right, yeah, my left short leg
was soaked.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
I remember that and we didn't have the windows open
or anything.
So your plane leaks.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
It's not a boat, it's okay.
It's not certified for hard IFR.
You couldn't be flying in therain anyway.
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
god, it was unpleasant but I mean so yeah,
so yeah, you lose that edgeright.
We've gotten older, we're notflying as much as we used to, at
least in these ga or like.
For me, I'm not flying these ga, it's, it's uncomfortable,
everything.
I tend to really over control.
I misjudge how quickly it'llslow down, I misjudge all kinds

(24:44):
of different things, and I thinkthat's just normal.
But what I would say is, whenwe're thinking about these cross
country flights, the purpose isto build time, and I know we
all have like that getthere-itis, even if it's like
you're trying to press it downand suppress it, like I know.
I'm just trying to build hours.

(25:04):
So why do I care how long ittakes me to get there?
I're trying to press it downand suppress it, like I know.
I'm just trying to build hours,so why do I care how long it
takes me to get there?
I'm trying to buildcross-country time.
Why do I want to go fast?
I should have this thing justbarely above stall speed getting
there and knock it all out.
You know what I mean.
I know that's over the top, butwhy do we want to go fast?
We just do, we just do.

(25:26):
We just do so.
With that being said, why notgo a little higher, even if you
have a little bit more of aheadwind?
You're just trying to get hoursright.
And then you have the options ifthere is an engine failure.
Altitude stores kinetic energyfour times better than airspeed
does.
So when you think about likelet's go from 2500, which is
really only 2,000 feet above theground, okay, and you go up to

(25:47):
4,500, you're kind of you'remore than doubling your altitude
above ground level.
25 to 45, you're more thandoubling.
And then if you think from aperspective of how much energy
you have from that altitude, itis exponential how much, how

(26:09):
many more options, what yourradius becomes.
So think about this you're,you're climbing up to altitude
8,500, let's go crazy.
And you know, in an underpoweredGA airplane, my super cub, your
150, whatever, they're allunderpowered, but you're just,
you know, barely getting upthere.
You get to 8, underpowered, butyou're just, you know, barely
getting up there.
You get to 8500 and you're intothis bitch and headwind and

(26:29):
it's going to take you foreverto get to your cross-country
destination.
So maybe it does, but you'retrying to build hours anyway.
So who cares about that?
And then two like oh well, yeah,but you all have.
You have that headwind and youknow your glide distance is
going to be reduced as a resultof that ground speed
differential, because of thatheadwind.
Turn the airplane around, well,yeah, you're going to glide 50%

(26:51):
further or whatever.
All that headwind is going tohelp you, right?
So you don't have to thinkabout just.
You know like we talk about ifyou lose that engine.
You know, just right aftertakeoff and you're at 300 feet,
you know only look.
You know in like this 70 degree.
You know like whatever in frontof you, or 130, whatever.
It is just kind of out in frontof you, a little bit off to the

(27:12):
sides.
Don't go crazy, don't try andthink too long.
Find the best spot, commit toit and work on dialing in the
airspeed configuration and yourplan.
Basically, don't try and findthe perfect spot, find a good
spot and make it happen whenyou're at 8500 feet and you have
a ton of altitude and a ton ofenergy, kinetic energy, to play

(27:33):
with.
Um, you have, you can.
You can take that time because,remember, you're a cruise.
First off, you need to slowdown to best glide speed, which
will take some time, as all know.
Think of when you go to getconfigured for a power-off stall
.
That shit takes forever to getthere.
That's all time you can beusing to assess what's around

(27:53):
you.
So altitude is your friend.
I know it can be painful whenyou're going into that headwind
and you're trying to getsomewhere.
But for this instance,especially where you're trying
to get somewhere, but for thisinstance, especially where
you're just trying to build,hours just go high.
Save the fuel, build the time,and then you have the options if
an engine fails.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
The problem with being up higher is, though, if
something goes wrong, you'regoing to hit the ground even
harder because you have all thatspeed.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yes, because that's how airplanes come out of the
ground in BC or out of the air?
Yeah, the airplane stalled, itjust lawn darted right into the
ground right.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
So if you stall it, you know a few hundred feet it's
safe, you're not gonna hit theground that hard.
Yeah, right stall it at eight,eight thousand feet.
You're dead, right, yes right Itexted
ryan eckle today to tell him Ineed to go over some stalls and
stuff and scott's playingpotentially with him.
Uh, before I like I said, Ijust told eckel all the

(28:51):
maneuvers I go, because if I'mteaching, yeah well teaching
them.
I should probably know the goodthing is, if you're teaching it
wrong, I'll never know i't knoweither.
That's why I want to get somepractice on you, potentially
aiming and like at this point,like I don't really care if I
fail.
So like if I go to the examinerto take the checkride and I fail

(29:14):
, like I'll just be like huh, Ifailed.
See, this is what makes me notwant to do that, because then
that's like a hard mark on a CFIcertificate.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
It looks bad for you.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Oh, I see.
It looks bad for you.
Doesn't that look really badfor you, Lee, as a CFI?

Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah, you don't want it.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Someone student bombs it.
No, you definitely don't wantthat.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
So we got to make sure that doesn't happen, Scott.
Yeah, it's definitely areflection on you, see, I was
thinking I'd just wing itbecause I don't really care if I
pass or fail.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
No, you got to do it for me.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
No, I have to sign you off for the written too,
which I don't want you to failthat.
That's why I'm making you doShepard Air.
What, wow?
When am I going to have time todo all this?

Speaker 2 (29:53):
It's going to be easy .
The Shepard Air should make iteasy.
I mean, yeah Again, learnanything out of it.
And I mean I never learnedanything out of any of the
writtens the way I studied forany of them, shepherd air or not
.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
I mean, I just go, I'd black out the wrong answers
and only focus on the right ones.
Right, many people told me theylearned more from the foreign
podcast than they did forstudying for the writtens wow, I
don't think we're live onrumble, I'm not sure I know I
was gonna say that, uh, I don'tknow what happened to it.
It failed.
I apologize.
Um, I'll try to get this stuffup as soon as I can to rumble

(30:33):
and the audio version onto thenormal podcast feed.
So for those of you who tunedinto the live stream, thank you
and we apologize.
I'm gonna have to contact thecompany that I just paid money
to to have them handle this andit obviously is not handled.
So my apologies.

(30:53):
But yeah, so I'm not going totry to.
It's going to cost too muchediting and stuff for me to try
to do it.
It's probably just going to doit again because it did it when
we first started anyway, so it'snot worth it.
But but yeah, we'll figure outwhat's going on and hopefully
quarter three episode we'll getit dialed in.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
I just wanted to bring that up.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Yeah, a lot of people .
I actually got the email towork this time, because quarter
one I sent out an email and Ididn't have it configured
correctly, so it went toeverybody's spam mailbox, so it
was not that many peoplewatching.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
and then we started to get up to like I saw like
almost 30 at one point on rumbleand then it just stopped do you
want to try and just do it andthen not even worry about like,
or is it not worth it to you, toI?

Speaker 1 (31:43):
I don't I don't want to cut this because it's going
to cause too much.
I don't.
I don't want to cut thisbecause it's going to cause too
much.
I don't have the software toedit easily right now, okay, so
I don't want to stop this andthen have to splice stuff
together and we're just going togo live like we're live still,
and then I'll post everythingokay, okay, um, so yeah, moving
on moving on.
We're on part three, still okay,so I just I feel like I need to

(32:06):
keep recapping to tell wherewe're at, because we get so off
not off topic, but sidetracked alittle bit.
250 hours, of which 100 hourspowered aircraft 50 must be in
airplanes.
100 hours of pilot and commandflight time, which includes 50
hours in airplanes, 50 hourscross country, 10 of which has
to be in airplanes.
Now we're into three.
This is the 20 hours oftraining on the areas of

(32:26):
operation listed in this blahblah blah reg.
That includes at least 10 hoursof instrument training using a
view-limiting device, includingattitude instrument, flying,
partial panel skills, recoveryfrom unusual flight attitudes
and intercepting and trackingnavigational systems.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Five hours of the 10 hours required on instrument
training must be in a singleengine airplane so this may
somewhat raise a question tosome people if they're going
through a 141 program like well,of course I have 10 hours, I
have an instrument rating, butyou don't have to have an

(33:07):
instrument rating for acommercial pilot certificate.
Yep a lot of people don'tunderstand that and that would
be fine.
Like if you want to go fly tothe lake erie islands and, just
you know, have kind of the timeof your life with minimal amount
of cost and training, whateveryou could go, do that legally,
easily, easily.
Private pilot certificate,commercial pilot certificate, no

(33:28):
instrument rating.
A lot of people like they gothrough a 141 program or a more
traditional path, they're goingto get their private and they're
going to get their instrument.
Now, first off, the instrumentvery valuable because it helps
them build up time,cross-country time, all that
sort of stuff which you can see.
We're running into a little bitof a deficit in the

(33:49):
cross-country time the nighttimewe're going to find out in a
bit because that instrumentrating is lacking.
That's why it makes kind ofsense to get an instrument
rating, but it's not required.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
You can go fly to the Lake Erie Islands.
You need a commercial 500.
I'm gonna convince lee'sbrother to hire you.
That's all you need, rightthat's pretty much it yeah, yeah
, uh.
If I get a commercial license,like then can I legally charge
people for rides.
Not that I would ever do that,but yeah you got a commercial.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
I mean, obviously there would be other and I and I
honestly don't even know, butyou you'll have to reach out to
the local fizdo and get somephoto, some form of ride letter,
um like a letter ofauthorization whatever, from
them to to do it.
But yeah, you can do all of theother more fringy commercial
things, the banner towing stuffand crop dusting and all that

(34:46):
stuff.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
You can't go point A to point B, though.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
No that's a 135 certificate.
Yeah, that's a different deal.
That's a different deal If youwork for somebody who has a 135
certificate, yeah.
But yeah, for a ride you gottago A to A, right.
You can't even stop at B to getgas while the person stays on
the plane, no, you can't dosomewhat seemingly common sense

(35:10):
things because they're not usingit for transportation, right,
because they didn't get off theplane.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
Yeah, so then it's not, but that's still according
to the FAA.
Doesn't like that?
That's not how it works.
Not that they would know, Guyon that snowmobile could be out
there, Scott.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Yeah, you never know.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah, you don't know, you have no idea.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Yeah, totally, but you could also just not care.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
There's that you don't even need a commercial at
that point.
Well, yeah then.
Yeah, why do you need a licenseat all?

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
And then you don't even need to have due
maintenance on your plane.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
Think of all the money you'll save.
Yeah Well, I don't want to getinto like criminal territory.
I want to like stick withinlike suspended license territory
.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
Oh yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
Smart man, I don't want to pull in the old Trent
Palmer Right.
I don't really care if yoususpend my pilot's license, but
I do care if you put me in jail,that's the reason.
I'm willing to bend the rules.
I just don't want to go to jail.
That's not a knock on Trenteither, I just wanted to.
I guess they did suspend hislicense after all that we had

(36:23):
talked about that.
I know you guys don't follow itthat much, right?
And that was when I was likeyou know.
So what?
Like jokes on you, I only flyonce every 90 days anyway,
that's true.
You know, oh man, I'm going tohave to stick to my regular
flying schedule.
Yeah, when was the last timeyou flew?
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (36:46):
It's probably it's even longer than that.
Now I haven't flown, you couldhave.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
You could have turned served three consecutive
suspensions right now right,yeah, oh, yeah yeah I could
probably do more than that withlike I said, I think I.
I think I flew in october lastI've got 2018 through 2025 on
the same page of my logbookright now.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
Oh my, God and see, I don't even do my logbook at all
.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
No.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
I haven't done my logbook in three years, and
there's, I don't know, 1,500hours, to be fair you log the
hours though, right no?
Why I have a senior pilot'sflight log and record.
I have that same one, so thepages are a little bigger.
I have that same one.
Yeah, I can get a few years ona page you know.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, youprobably got 10 lines on that.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
I could only get like one or two years on a page on
my old log book I have the sameone.
And I have it because when wemaxed out our little ones, you
convinced me that we needed thisone.
And you're like, because you'regoing to fly all the time, you
might as well just get the bigone, because you're going to
fill it up.
You'll never have to buy a newlogbook, ever again.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Rob is right.
I totally agree with that.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
I could have bought the little mini one and I
wouldn't have filled it up Inhis whole life.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
But, scott, you've got to factor in you're going to
live forever, since you're sohealthy.
You're going to live forever,since you're so healthy.
Your VO2 max is so good.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
VO2 max says that I will live forever.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
See, yeah, it's a good thing you got the big
logbook, not if you fly GA atnight, though Right, I know
that's true.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
It's going to ruin life expectancy plummet.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
It's going to ruin my whole plan to live forever.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Oh man, we need to have who's your idol.
Oh he's definitely not my idol.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
The guy's weird, you kept saying his name like he and
I knew it Well, we were talkingabout trying to live forever,
so I brought it up, but Brian.
Johnson.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
Everybody knows who Brian Johnson is oh, I thought
you were going to say WaltDisney.
No, I wasn't sure.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
No, no, brian Johnson's the guy that's trying
to live forever.
I mean there's a few other onestoo, but he's like I don't know
howard hughes was prettyhealthy back in his day, yeah
yeah, I can analyze hisfingernail healthy as a horse,
not mentally, but physically sothose 10 hours of instrument, we

(38:58):
can do that in scott's planenot being IFR certified.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
Oh, 10 hours of instrument.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Using a view limiting device Does the actual plane
have to be IFR certified?
I don't think so no.
I, as a CFI, don't need to beinstrument certified either,
because I do not have a double I.
I'm pretty sure that's rightSend the hate mail.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
if that's incorrect, I'm pretty sure that's correct,
though I mail if that'sincorrect.
I'm pretty sure that's correct,though I'm going to have to
think on that for a second.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
Why would they issue?
I can do private, I can docommercial, I can do flight
instructor with my regular CFI.
Why would they have that?
If you have to go to a double I, you need to be a double I.
You don't even need a double Ifor all of the instrument

(39:50):
training.
It's just 15 hours of theinstrument training has to be
with a double I, if my memoryserves me correctly.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
No, you are correct, I'm going back.
I just want to look at some.
Ask Grok.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
We got Grok now.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
What's the?

Speaker 1 (40:05):
question you want me to ask.
Can a CFI without a double I dothe 10 hours of instrument
training required for acommercial Scott's got Grok
premium.
I'm going to tend to agree withyou you pay for the good one,

(40:29):
don't you Scott the premium, the?
I pay the $80 a year for X, soI get the.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
I think that's a better deal.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
I think it's $30 a month if you go straight to Grok
.
I just paid the.
I don't know.
There's some deal for if yousign up for a year.
Type.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
Can AC?

Speaker 1 (40:58):
This is Grok.
We got Grok on the show now.
Fourth co host.
That's good Grok Without aCFII-double-I All I'm looking
for is some specific verbiage.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
I've been out of it for a while so I don't know this
offhand.
I would tend to agree with you.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
I'm willing to hang my hat on this.
I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
Well, you're more up on it than I am at this point.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
No, not at all.
I came up with the harebrainedidea to start instructing within
the last few weeks again.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
You know where I stand on that, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
You know where I stand.
Yeah, oh, it's going to be good.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
Oh, it's going to be phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
We just got to figure out if I can legally do the
Before.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
don't I finally found the section.
Don't read it when you find it,scott.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Let me weigh in before I.
Okay, this is going to be good,since I can't edit out stuff
easily.
Radio silence.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Well, I'm trying, I'm reading, rob, so fill the
silence with something.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Okay, Okay so like I said, we are at the FAR 61.129.
I mispronounced nine earlier.
I apologize.
I said nine, not niner.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
I would agree with you, rob.
You are correct.
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
You are correct.
I knew that before you leave,because I do things the modern
way.
And I just ask Grok, I don'tlike flip through pages of a
book.
Okay, let's flip through thesepages like a treasure it's a
treasure hunt and find theinformation this is kind of fun
for me, so because just like.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
Rob's journey like getting back up to speed.
Learning regs learning regs no,I'm just kidding.
I get it but to find it the oldfashioned way and to
definitively agree, and thenGrok agrees game over now.
Now we know, yeah, okay, sowhat were we debating there, rob
?
The 10 hours of instrumenttraining for a commercial pilot

(42:52):
certificate.
Yes, I can give it Can be froma CFI.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
They don't have to be a double I.
Correct.
Okay, just wanted to straightenthat out.
You have to be, your instrumenthas to be proficient.
You have to be instrumentproficient, though that's what
Grok says.
Yeah, When's the last time you?
I don't.
I think that's BS.
The CFI must be proficient ininstrumentifying to provide

(43:19):
effective and safe training,even though they lack the.
Cfii endorsement.
We know that, yes, they have tobe proficient.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
Yeah, then it's maybe not current.
What is the difference between?

Speaker 2 (43:29):
proficient and current.
Oh, there's a big difference.
Okay, I mean right.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
You can get proficient in a simulator like a
Microsoft.

Speaker 3 (43:41):
Flight.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Sim.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
No.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
You can't get current in Microsoftrosoft flight sim
you could get.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Well, that's also that's true, but the converse is
also true and also moreappropriate.
You can legally do your threetakeoffs and landings
atrociously and be current.
That's true but not beproficient that's so.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
That would be more.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
That would be another way to look correct yeah, well,
yeah, that's probably the wayto look at it.
So everybody walks through thedoor who wants a flight review,
like, oh, I need one hour flighttraining.
Yeah, dude, you need like fourhours of flight training.
I'll see you next week.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
I know.
That's why I tell people.
I don't tell people.
I want a semi-legitimate review.
Grok does say that you shouldconsult with your DPE to confirm
their interpretations of theseregulations.

(44:36):
Zeus, I got it.
Got to ask Zeus Okay, lee's gotto go to pee break.
Can you hold this together, oram I going to have to edit this
section out?
Scott, maybe I should take apee break too, what no?
That's going to be me by myself.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
And I can't edit this stuff.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Oh well, I can, we'll hold it together, so let's hold
down the fort.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah, so neither one of us knows what we're doing.
No, so let's hold down the fort.
Yeah, so neither one of usknows what we're doing.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
No.
So it's going to be fun becausewe're going to give you a
commercial Right.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
It's going to be.
You're going to learn how toinstruct while I'm learning how
to fly Exactly, which I think isgood.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah, it's a good first student.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
Right, because commercial is basically like an
elaborate private and I know youdon't want a failure on your
markings or whatever, but if youthink about it like it would be
even more stressful if you hada student that this was really
important to them for you know.

(45:47):
You know what I'm saying,because it could get exam
stressed.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
Well, no for you.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
Anyway, you know what I'm saying.
Yeah, like say like you'venever done it before.
Obviously you haven't.
No, you've never instructedanybody, never done it before.
Obviously you haven't neverinstructed anybody, especially
not for a commercial.
Not for a commercial.
Now, let's say, your firstcommercial student is like
planning on doing this for acareer and it's very important

(46:17):
oh yeah that would add stress toyou, because it's like oh yeah
oh shit, like I don't want tomess this guy's stuff up, you
know yeah but as where it's me,it's like if you teach me
something wrong and then I fail,like I, I just I don't care.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, that is.
That is a positive right.
It's a little bit of a stressyou're not actually going to use

(46:41):
the commercial either.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
No no.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
So if I leave out some critical detail about how
to fly a plane for hire, I don'tknow what that would be.
So if you don't teach me to beup to commercial standards, but
somehow I still pass theexamination, you don't have to
be like oh God, am I going toget a bunch of passengers killed
Because there's never going tobe any passengers.
Yeah, Like you don't have to belike, oh God, did I?

(47:05):
Am I going to get a bunch ofpassengers killed because
there's never going to be anypassengers?

Speaker 3 (47:09):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Like you're never going to screw up the PA
announcement no and blame it onme no.
Cause you're never going to doa PA announcement.
No, Unless you.
Just what was that situation,Didn't you?
Didn't you?
Didn't you joke about hijackingan airliner?

Speaker 2 (47:28):
at some point.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
No, I wasn't gonna hijack it, I was just saying it
would always be.
It was like this you know,thought I had like what if it
would be pretty cool, if, likenot cool for the pilots, but
let's just, you know, look pastthat.
Uh, let's say, terrorists takeover a plane and they kill the
pilots.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and thenI kill the terrorists you are

(47:50):
going to kill.

Speaker 3 (47:51):
Right, I kill the terrorists.
You're going to kill theterrorists.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
I'm the only one left to fly the plane.
The pilots are already dead.
The pilots are dead, nobodyelse.
The terrorists are dead.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Nobody can fly the plane.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
The plane has already been hijacked.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Right, you are not the one that hijacked it.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
I'm not the one who hijacked it, no, so I feel like
say I'm Spirit or well, I flyFrontier.
Usually I'm on Frontier.

Speaker 3 (48:13):
You can do some negotiating, I could make some
demands.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
You know Like I'll land this thing for you, but
like I don't have free flightsforever, yeah.
You know I wouldn't make anycrazy demands.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
Yeah, you'd be reasonable about it.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
You know I'll be like I'm just going to let this
thing go unless, like you, wantto give me some like unlimited
miles.
You want a little more than apat on the back.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
Right yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
For saving the day.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
You know, maybe slide some cash too.
You know, yeah, I mean, I don'tknow, you can just go back to
37D and sit down.
I'll go back.
Is that the very back of theplane?

Speaker 3 (48:52):
How many rows do they have?

Speaker 1 (48:52):
Because I'm always in the back.
Yeah, because they make you paymore for the the way they cram
men in Frontier and Spirit.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
There might be a 47D for all I know.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
So, like you know, so I get on the radio and it's
like I could probably get thisthing down without killing
everybody, but I'm going to needa little something to make it
worth my while you want to besitting in that frontier gold
lounge without having to pay forit.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
Right, yeah, okay, yeah, that's what it was.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
I knew it was something along those lines.
So I didn't hijack the plane,yeah I'm not.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
I'm not a terrorist, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna blow
the plane up.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
I'm not gonna crash it intentionally yeah I'm not
gonna take it somewhere andsteal it you're just gonna go
sit down.
I'm just gonna go sit down,okay that's last you make it
worth your while.
That's great.
I remember there was somethingalong those lines.
I'm glad we explained it Okay.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Oh my Lord, I hope you like going to Cancun,
because that's like the onlyplace I freaking go Frontier.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
They go to Florida.
No, I, I Well, I know, but asfar as like, really exotic.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
Oh, like cool places.
Yeah, I mean, that's just Oneof the top ones.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
I don't even know when all they go.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
But that's fine, yeah , yeah, I don't think they leave
like North America.

Speaker 3 (50:16):
Okay, so we can do.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
We can do the instrument part they might do
South America.
I don't want to overdo it sodon't miss your flight right,
they don't want to wait till theday after tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Too many options hey, that's true that frontier is
great.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
Honestly, I've never had a bad experience with
frontier.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
I haven't ridden on them in a long time, but yeah,
yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
I mean other than like it's not very comfortable,
but like I don't really care fora two hour flight to Florida.
I think we had a delay once.
Spirit, on the other hand, Ihad some bad experiences, but Do
you see the thing?

Speaker 2 (50:55):
about the roaches today.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
No.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
Some lady took a picture, or some passenger took
a picture of cockroachescrawling on the inside of a
Spirit plane.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
Oh God.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
Yeah.
That's rough, not good.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Probably chewing on things in there.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
Well, they want to go on vacation too.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
I don't know what to tell you.
How else are they going to getthere?

Speaker 2 (51:15):
They're not going to flap their own wings.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
Do cockroaches even have wings?
I don't even know.
I think so, maybe I don't thinkthey have wings, I'm pretty
sure they do.
I don't think they have wings.
Grok Grok.
We were in a drought here inFlorida I'm just going to keep
the same conversation.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
I planted an oak tree .
I'm not going to start a newconversation.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
I planted an oak tree a few months ago, so I was
watering it because we were in adrought, was watering it
because we were in a drought and, uh, I was watering it daily
and all the cockroaches out inthis area realize there must be
water here daily yeah I'd neverseen so many in my life.
You were training cockroacheswell, yeah, well I I turned the

(51:58):
hose on and I set my five minutetimer on my watch, so, and I'd
wait, so it would flood thissection of the yard because I
was trying to just deep soakthis tree for a couple weeks to
start roots and yeah, it was, ithad to be hundreds of them.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Hundreds, that's it.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Did they have wings?

Speaker 2 (52:18):
No, How'd they get there so fast they?

Speaker 1 (52:21):
must have been Madagascar hissing cockroaches
then.
Okay, 10 hours of training,training.
Okay, part of this 20 hours youneed from a flight instructor.
Let's get back on topic here Iheard cockroaches.
American cockroaches have wingsand can fly short distances,
especially naturally birthplaceof aviation.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
Baby right brothers.
The right brother, the germancockroaches.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
They have wings, but they rarely fly, they prefer to
run.
Uh, there's a joke in theresomewhere I can't even just move
along 10 hours of training in acomplex airplane, a turbine
powered airplane or atechnically advanced aircraft
Ooh, what's that?

(53:05):
That meets the requirements ofparagraph J of this section, or
any combination of thereof.
The airplane must beappropriate to land or sea for
the rating sought.
Right, your plane's not goingto cut it for any of these guys.
What so I have to.
No, oh, I'm never going to doit.
Yeah, we don't know anybodythat has a plane like that.
You don.

(53:26):
Oh, I'm never going to do it.
Yeah, we don't know anybodythat has a plane like that.
You know anybody that's gotlike a G1000 with an autopilot
at Hind that would let you do 10hours in the plane?
I don't know Not anybody that Iwould ask.
I feel like we're like acomplex.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
To a certain point, it might be cheaper to just go
the traditional route and get afull, complex airplane and I
would argue those skills wouldprobably be better served.
I know what you're going to useit for, which is nothing.
It's just kind of puttinganother rating or certificate on
your license.
That's literally it.
But I think you would get moreout of having it.

(54:08):
How?

Speaker 1 (54:08):
many hours in this thing.
Ten, ten, holy crap, yeah, andI can only imagine what renting
one of those would cost per hour.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Yeah, depending on what it is.
I mean, if you go to like a, Imean you're talking $180 an hour
.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Yeah For like a 172 with a G1000.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
You're talking $180 an hour, yeah, for like a 172
with a G1000.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
Yeah, If not, more Didn't you use.
You went to American Flyersright Briefly.
They had a retractable gear.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
I thought A lot of these places still I mean still
do that.
Shouldn't be hard to findsomething in retractable gear.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
Tiffin had that one with the T-tail.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
Yeah, T-tail arrow.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
The T-tail arrow.
That's complex.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
I did some time in that.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
That might be the way to go these days.
I mean, scott definitelydoesn't need to spend any time
learning a G1000.
Here's the issue.
You've got to play the gamewith your DPE a little bit.
It's a lot easier.
No offense, scott, at all.
Obviously I know you're superintelligent and can learn
anything about G1000, butthere's just too many reasons or
ways they could trip you up,get you to the wrong screen and

(55:15):
tell you to get back.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
You have to show that you know how to use it,
especially if I've only got 10hours in the airplane and you're
not going to spend any timelearning all that crap.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
That's absolute horse shit.
But you can put a gear up anddown, it's one thing, it goes up
and it goes down.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
What about flaps and a constant speed propeller?

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Yeah, but he already knows flaps.
He already knows flaps.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
What about four flight with an iPad?
I feel like that's probablygood enough.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
No, because you have to have an electronic PFD.
Two iPads yeah, I'll put two ofthem up there.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
Well, you're getting closer, slap a Garmin logo on
the top.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know, trickthem.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
Yeah, trick them.
Yeah, you have to have a PFD,an MFD and a two-axis autopilot
to be this technically advancedaircraft or technical advanced
aircraft.
So it's more than just screensor whatever.
So I think like maybe findingan arrow, or somebody who knows
like that, that lake buccaneer,yeah done or whatever he has.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Whatever that is that would.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
That would that would work, that would yeah it's
constant speed right yeah,absolutely is.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
Yeah, there you go so I mean I'm just saying you
could think of plane rating.
Yeah, you could like who'sgonna?
Who's gonna check me out inthat thing?
Anyway, and like I wouldn'twant to ask him, lee and I could
I'm not gonna, I don't like, Idon't like little airplanes,

(56:40):
they scare me, I never bought alittle airplane and flew it all
the way home.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
I just get back and it scares me yeah.
They are scary.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
My DPE had a Lake Buccaneer.
We went bombing around theEverglades after one of my check
rides.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
I'm just saying that's one that I know, that
Scott knows the guy, so I meanthat is an outside-the-box kind
of thing, but that would checkthe box outside the box kind of
thing, but that would check thebox, the retractable gear,
constant speed, prop and flaps.
So he's not a cfi though, I'mjust he could use the plane.
Yeah, yeah, if he was a cfi.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
That'd be a cakewalk, so he could just scott could
ask to go fly.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
That guy's flying all the time yeah, if, if he was a
CFI, I'm sure he would do it.
Hey, can I sit in the seat?

Speaker 1 (57:24):
and you teach me for 10 hours of the BS.
Run around and I'll cover thecost, or something.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Yeah, that could be a way to do it.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
I was reading through this earlier.
This is the hardest part of allthis.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
But yeah, what is?
Just the 10 hours in one ofthese, yeah, and a lot of 141s.
They tend to make you want todo the private instrument and
then you do your multi engine,because then I've heard of a lot
of them doing that, becausethen it kind of just makes sense
.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Because, most multi-engines are all this you
get 10 hours during thattraining and satisfied yeah, I
can think of very few multisthat are fixed gear or something
weird like that.
Scott, just go get your multiin the Apache.
Yeah, it's never going tohappen.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Not going to happen, no, no, that thing's nicer than
it's ever been.
Oh really, yeah, it's nevergoing to get used for
construction ever again.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
I thought I heard of some couple, but that was back
in the day.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
Yeah, not anymore.
New engines, new prop, newinterior, new paint.
It's a brand new airplane.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
I mean, what does he use it for?
As decently nice as it was, itis nice he likes Scott though I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
It might make an exception.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
Who's that?
He's always like Scott, yourbrother, my brother.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
I don't think he'd go train me in it.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
He likes Scott more than you probably yeah.
What does he use that plane for?

Speaker 2 (58:59):
Just personal use.
Yeah, like when we went to gopick up my plane, he took me
over there in it.
Yeah, yeah, like when we wentto go pick up my my plane, um,
he took me over there in it.
Yeah, yeah, and that's I don'tknow what else they, how often
they fly it even, or anythingbut I didn't know if he doesn't
do any anything other than justpersonal use with that.

(59:19):
Just personal use, yeah Iwouldn't mind having one of
those.
I wouldn't do like the.
Well, the 180s are nice, but Idon't think I would need them.
But it's nice.
How much space is in those oldairplanes?
all of them, the aztecs, thecomanches there's so much more
space like.
And then we had this dead zonewith all the cherokees, the 172s

(59:40):
and everything for whatever, 50freaking years or more, 70
years.
And then the cirrus comes outand now it's back to we have.
We have room for two adults tosit next to each other.
Finally you know it's just crazyhow much space there used to be
then.
There wasn't for whatever 70years, and now the cirrus has
made it, made a little more, um,enjoyable, whatever yeah, I was

(01:00:08):
so ticked because don, ourscott and i's instructor, don,
he owned a bunch of airplanes.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
One of them was a 310 and we kind of made the deal to
learn to do my multi in the 310.
So we started and did two hoursin it, uh, and then he called
his insurance company and theyflipped out about me being the
left seat.
They said not a chance.
So then that ended very quicklyafter that.

(01:00:34):
First I think it was, I don'tknow if it was one or two
flights I know it was two hoursbecause this day I still have
two hours 2.0 of multi in mylogbook and that's the only
multi I've ever done.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
It was the 310, but that's a nice plane did you guys
get like like, hey, we raise itup to insurers for dual and
we'll pay for it?
I yeah you must have gone downthat road it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
For whatever reason, it never worked out.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Well, and that's why you can go on to Controller,
barnstormers, trade a Plane andfind Maltese for a decent price,
all things considered.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Yeah, they're not that expensive.
You can buy 310s for not thatmuch.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
I don't even know.
You're much more in tune withthe market.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Well, I mean, I don't know, Like a 310 up to your
standards would probably bepretty expensive.
But if you want like a beater310, they're not very expensive.
What's not very expensive, Idon't know Like 180, 170.
Oh less than that, really, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
Yeah, how much less.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Well, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
The ones I look at are more closer to salvage.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
Yeah, so they're like 60, 70.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Scott you should get something that meets these
requirements.
That's about to be run out.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
You only need to run it for 10 hours, get 10 hours
out.
You could do it all in thepattern.
No, not even 310.
Do something cheap complex.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
Put the gear up and down, 10 hours out of it for
this requirement and then partit out.

Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
Make money off the deal.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
Yeah, I don't know.
Okay, well, that's just really.
That sounds like a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
Well, and yeah, maybe dangerous.
Oh, the gear comes up, but itdoesn't come back down.

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
Yeah, I mean, I'm afraid to fly my plane.
I don't think I'm going to buysomething that's 10 hours above
salvage.
Take it right to that end, dude, I mean some of these planes I
part out, it's like this thingwas flying like that, it's kind
of scary, yeah, thing was flyinglike that, it's kind of scary,
yeah, because you, once you getin there, like I mean, most

(01:02:45):
planes that I take apart havefrayed control cables, like you
know, they have worn out shit,just stuff that probably nobody
would notice, because, like you,can't see everything right yeah
, no it is.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
It is kind of scary, yeah, but I mean, think of the
loads that go on those cables,or yeah, they ain't gonna break?

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
I mean they, yeah, they'd have to fray a lot more
before they broke.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
They're not gonna break that yeah, that is not
something, that the controlcable is not something that
concerns me at all.
Now maybe if it was in thewrong spot and bound on the
wrong pulley and then getsjammed, that could be
troublesome, that could bereally bad.
You know, think of an aileronjam, a rudder jam, that's yeah,

(01:03:33):
that would be bad if that fraysthe wrong spot.
But yeah, you would think.
That's why you should do alwaysdo control checks before you
take off.
The thing's not going to fraywhile you're in flight.
You know what I mean?
Yeah you got to do that, yougot to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
Control, check yeah, okay, one hour, one two hour
cross-country flight, a singleengine airplane, in daytime
conditions.
That consists of a totalstraight line distance of a more
than 100 nautical miles fromthe original point of departure.
We already discussed that yougot to do that same flight at
night.
This is still with theinstructor and you have to do
three hours in a single engineairplane with an authorized
instructor in preparation forthe practical test within the

(01:04:08):
preceding two calendar monthsfrom the month of the test.
So that's all the stuff withthe instructor.
Now part four is 10 hours ofsolo flight time in a single
engine airplane or 10 hours offlight time performing the
duties of pilot-in-command in asingle-engine airplane with an
authorized instructor on board.
They changed this, didn't they?

(01:04:29):
This used to have to be solo,but I think now you can do it
with an instructor on board aslong as you're PIC, logging as
PIC, either of which may becredited towards the flight time
requirement under paragraphblah blah blah, the section on
the areas of operation listed inblah blah blah that include one
hour or one one hour one crosscountry flight of not less than

(01:04:51):
300 nautical miles totaldistance, with landings at a
minimum of three points, one ofwhich is a straight line
distance of at least 250nautical miles from the original
departure point.
However, if this requirement isbeing met, in hawaii, longest
segment um straight line is only150 nautical miles um this one.

(01:05:12):
So, yeah, it has to be solo, orit has to be with your
instructor, as you with PIC,though I'm not doing it solo.
So I did this solo and I hadjust read it myself and I
thought you had to do a $250 amile leg.

(01:05:33):
So that's the closest I've evercome to running out of gas.
Yeah, I was going to say that'sabout the max on a 150.
I cranked it over to Indiana.
Why did you almost run out ofgas?
Yeah, I was gonna say that'sabout the max on 150.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
I cranked it over to indiana why did you almost run
out of gas?

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
what I planned it, and then there's more headwind,
so I just I didn't break the lawI didn't break the law because
I planned it and I had the 30minute daytime vFR reserve, but
then, for whatever reason, I didnot get that performance,
because probably because oflittle headwinds.

(01:06:05):
More than so, more than morethan were forecast in my math.
So I ended up eating into thatreserve a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
Okay, so said another way those numbers, those, those
reserve numbers don't matteronce you take off.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Yes, as we've discussed Right, that came up in
the.
I learned that in the JackCochran episode.
Like he brought that up.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Those are all planning numbers.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
Yeah, that's for planning.
It's not illegal to actuallyeat into that during the flight
as long as you're following thatplan.
That showed that you wouldn'thave to.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
Right, right, Yep, you know I got to think on this
a little bit longer.
This 10 hours of solo flighttime in a single engine or 10
hours of flight time performingthe duties of pilot command in a
single engine airplane with anauthorized instructor on board?
I don't know exactly whatthey're trying to do here, but
yeah, I remember it being 10hours of solo flight time.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Yeah, I think that's changed since I did it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
Yeah, now it's referencing A2, which I don't
think is anything.
I've had enough to drink nowthat I'm not quite thinking
correctly, but I don't reallycare.
It's easy and clean to just saysolo.
If I was doing this full time Iwould maybe know this, or I'd
spend more time thinking aboutthis or whatever, crowdsourcing

(01:07:33):
the proper outcome, but justtreat it solo, which I know
would be tougher for like Scott,like I don't want to do that.
I don't want to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
I don't want to go do 10 of this 300 nautical mile
cross country solo well, noamong other things yeah, so like
you couldn't take your wife andgo do that, scott, because you
wouldn't be solo, really, noright, you got to be the sole
occupant of the plane, or itlooks like they changed it to
acting pic with an authorizedinstructor.

(01:08:01):
Okay, and then the last one,but not least five hours in
night vfr conditions, with 10takeoffs and 10 landings, with
each landing involving a flightin the traffic pattern at an
airport with an operatingcontrol tower oh, which one of
those scares you worse, scottwhat's that?

Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
long cross country or 10 takeoffs and landings at a
controlled field with anoperating control tower.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
What?

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
what scares me more.
It would be like the nightcross country.
That would be more scary.
But what would be more likedifficult would definitely be
the tower, yeah well put Becauselike I said, if I mess
something up and they yell at meand I get my license suspended

(01:08:50):
or something, I don't reallycare, but I don't want to die,
yeah, so it looks like you coulddo that with an authorized
instructor too, as long asyou're acting PIC.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
I guess I would have to agree with that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
Yeah, so we could go to.

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
Toledo again.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
Scott, and then radio can fail.
I have to go turn the runwaylights on.
Okay, scott's going to go turnthe runway lights on.
Is that code for something Idon't know?

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
I.
I wish I would have, I wish Iwould have known that this was a
change, because I cannot.
I feel the element of time, thepressure to read it and
understand it, but I can't.
I've drank enough that I'm notquite.
It's foggy.
So, yeah, it's referencingother sections here to make sure
.
But yeah, I mean, obviously,you know, just reading it, it

(01:09:45):
sounds like you can have anauthorized instructor on board.
Which man?
That just seems like taking alot of the difficulty.
You're still acting PIC andyou're acting PIC on a flight
review and you're acting PIC ona flight review.
A lot of times you're actingPIC when you're Well, hold on,

(01:10:14):
this probably comes into.
You know, there's a differencebetween acting PIC and logging
PIC.
Logging pic right, you can belogging pilot command time like
you or scott.
Scott, like, let's say, this isme and scott, just to make it a
really pretty big gradient andexperience level, scott is, um,

(01:10:36):
he's flying along and we'redoing this night cross country.
He is logging PIC, but ifsomething really goes down,
something's happening, I'macting PIC like he's he's, he
can log it, it goes in hiscolumn, but if something happens
or is going on, I'm going toassume control.

(01:10:57):
I am at logging PIC and actingPIC.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
And this is saying they are performing the duties
of pilot in command.
So I am looking at that asacting PIC.
So I think I see what they'regetting at.
Again, I need to see what thisis referencing.
The other section it'sreferencing, to be sure, but I

(01:11:26):
think they're just trying tomake some latitude.
But as long as you're actingPIC and not just logging PIC, I
think that's what they're tryingto get at, because that
somewhat gets you back in thehot seat as if you were solo.
So that makes sense to me to acertain extent.
But in the old days you know,solo you're going to go do these

(01:11:48):
10 takeoffs, landings at acontrol field at night.

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
You know you're going to go do this long cross
country.
They kind of sissified this abit.
We had to do this excrementsolo.
We had to do this.
We had to do this excrementsolo.
There was there was noambiguity about who is acting as
pic when you're the only onethe plane right, right, exactly,
exactly, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
Well said, yep, yep, yeah, it happens.
Well now, now you don't have todo the takeout, you can do it
in a technically advancedairplane.
It doesn't have to be in acomplex airplane anymore, you
can just have glass panel andyou're good.
You don't have to put a geardown until you're flying a King
Air, until you landed that jobflying a King Air.

Speaker 1 (01:12:30):
It's weird to me.
If you learn in a TAA aircraftwhich a lot of people do now,
that's probably pretty easy andbenign to, just because you know
everything that the, that thegarmin does.
So it's, you know, it's no, nobig deal.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
What's that?
What do you mean?
What do you mean?
What's no big deal if youlearned how to fly?

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
learn in a technically advanced aircraft
something with a g1000.
Yeah, like, then it's probablypretty easy to you like To fly
To fly what you learned in yeahto fly that airplane.
Because you'll know it in andout.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
Yeah, okay, I don't know where you're going with
that, though.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
We learned on steam gauges so we knew the steam
gauges in and out, but we had todo extra stuff for the complex.
Oh yeah, A lot of peoplelearning in G g1000.
So that's nothing to them.
So this is basically like noteven a requirement anymore.
It's like they dropped it forthe new guys oh, yeah, no, yeah,
I'd agree with that I'd agreewith that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
That's all I'm saying yeah, yeah, I think I see from
a um big picture perspective, Ithink I much rather have
somebody go the traditionalroute yeah be kind of on the
spot for putting that gear upand down.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
Yeah or a turbine like I.
That's a decent substitute tome I.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
I'm trying to think of why that would be like like
it's.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
It's fairly complex.
I I've never run a turbine, butto me that seems more
complicated than putting a gearup and down or running a
constant speed propeller um, no,I mean you're still running
typically most of the time.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
You're still running a constant speed propeller
exactly yeah, but so that that'schecked, I would say.
I mean, I feel like you have tohave more fundamentals of
knowledge on, you know,operating the aircraft.
It's not so much, it's not asmuch like a car, like you're
really watching, like, okay,that gauge can't be past this.
If this gauge goes here, yougot to do different things.

(01:14:32):
So I feel like you're elevatedin your understanding of what's
going on with that engine, whereit's not necessarily so true
with a, I mean, a typical pistonengine airplane, it's like a
lawnmower, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:14:49):
That's a FADEC.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
Yeah, but you know you could go into a Pilatus.
Well, I mean, that doesn'tmatter because that's got a
retractable gear and all thatstuff too.
So yeah, a lot of times youknow they're putting all those
things together caravan care,yeah, caravan, but that has a
prop lever as well.
That is not a fadec, okay.

(01:15:13):
So I'm trying to.
What is a turbine poweredairplane that has one lever, and
I know, like a Pilatus does,but then it's got the gear
though.

Speaker 1 (01:15:25):
Well, that's a jet, though you don't adjust the prop
.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
Yeah, most of them now like the TBMs.
They're automatic yeah it's allone lever.
Yeah, go ahead, it's all onelever operation.
So they're trying to makeeverything because jets are all
one lever.

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
Yeah Well, yeah, that's true, it's all figures
stones shits out yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
But they're trying to make and like the Cirrus is now
, I mean I believe you only havea mixture and a throttle no
prop yeah, no prop, it's alllinked together by it's kind of
nice, yeah, linked together by.
It's kind of nice, yeah, it canbe.
You know, if you're going from,you know a Trainer 172 or a
Cherokee and you go up into that.
It's nice to still just havethe one lever and it's going to

(01:16:06):
modulate the prop, depending onhow much I think it's smart.
It's smart, yeah, but I feellike it's removing the pilot out
of the equation which I reallyequation, which, well, I mean
they're.

Speaker 1 (01:16:23):
They're working on that as you wrap.
Yeah, breakneck face.

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
Yes, yeah, I mean you'll probably be all right,
but I don't know if I'd thegeneration after me won't yeah,
I was gonna say I don't know ifI'd tell my kids to go into it,
because no, yeah nope, but it'sonly gonna take one crash, I
think, maybe two I think thatit'll take more than that I used

(01:16:46):
to I used to agree with that,but I think that the amount of
money that autonomy is gonnasave, that, I think that they'll
, they'll, they'll blast throughthat yeah, well, yeah, I mean,
I mean it's gonna take a while.
I don't think it's gonna happenovernight but did you see that
thing about liftonza?
Uh-uh the fo or whoever passedout for 10 minutes oh she while

(01:17:13):
the captain was out of theflight deck, and so the dude was
out for 10 minutes he fellasleep.
He fell asleep or he had anundiagnosed neurological
condition really yep captaincouldn't get back in.
Eventually the fo came back,let the dude in, they disclosed

(01:17:34):
it and everything they medicallydiverted to somewhere.

Speaker 1 (01:17:38):
Holy cow.

Speaker 2 (01:17:39):
And yeah so, but it's so, like all of us,
domestically.
You always have to have twopeople on the flight deck for
that reason.
That's how we do it.
I can't believe that in theEuropean Union, whatever that
they don't have there.

Speaker 1 (01:17:53):
Well, if somebody has to, pee it might change now.

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
Yeah well, I don't know why they're behind.
Normally they're more likethey're more stringent on their
things than we are right youknow what I mean for the most
part.
So, uh, we always have to haveso, like, if somebody has to go
out to pee, flight attendant hasto come in oh okay, you have to
have two people on the flightdeck at all times I've observed

(01:18:16):
this from seat 1B on Spirit, seeany roaches.
Maybe that was a big roach thatwent in.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
If there's a giant roach, is that good enough?

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
Yeah.
But we know, they know how tofly, so it's all good.

Speaker 3 (01:18:33):
Lufthansa still has the good stewardesses.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
So you bring a flight attendant into the cockpit.
Are they supposed to fly theplane?
If the first officer passes out?
I wonder that they can unlockthe door to let them.

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
They can let the other guy in for sure?

Speaker 1 (01:18:49):
I guess For sure yeah .

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
But in I mean up at cruise when you're doing any of
these types of functions, it'sall autopilot anyway, yeah, yeah
.
I mean, obviously you're goinggonna run out of gas eventually,
so you need to do something.
But yeah, let's the other guyin, but the periods of time that
somebody, that there's only oneperson, one pilot up there is,

(01:19:12):
so I mean it's nothing, it'sdecimal, points out percentage
of the flight.
So the odds of things happeningright then are minuscule.

Speaker 1 (01:19:18):
They gotta like block the drink cart and stewardesses
have to pretend like they'regonna block some marauding arab
from getting at the flight deckwhile the doors open for two
seconds.
Yeah, the whole song and danceis a little ridiculous it is.

Speaker 2 (01:19:34):
Yeah, we didn't have that the regionals, but we have
it at the, we have it at thebigger carriers for sure.
We didn't have any of that the,the cart, the beverage.
We didn't have any of that, thebeverage cart.
We didn't have any of thatstuff at the regionals.
No, no, you can always go walkup and down the aisles, you know
, stretch your legs.

Speaker 3 (01:19:50):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
You know.
But now, yeah, they do.
It's not over the top.
It only takes one time forsomething to go wrong.
But yeah, yeah.
So back to automation, back tosingle pilot operations.
Yeah, they're gonna do anything.

Speaker 1 (01:20:06):
They think what that would increase their revenue oh,
yeah, you only had to pay forone pilot that's why you know,
that's why it's gonna happen Iknow they're driving for me too
much money, it'll go I mean thefreight carriers will do it'll
go first for them.

Speaker 2 (01:20:20):
I think it'll be a while till the passenger
carriers but yeah, no, I, Ithink that would be the test bed
, um, for sure, I mean, I, I, Iwant to see, I don't want to see
, I don't want to see any of it,obviously.
But I would think we'll have alot more understanding when we
have, you know, fullself-driving cars.

Speaker 1 (01:20:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
And I think that will really further and expedite the
transition for aircraft.

Speaker 1 (01:20:47):
Yeah, yeah, because, like, if a car can, because
that's going to be data.

Speaker 3 (01:20:51):
If a car can handle, they're going to be generating
data.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
Yeah, If cars can handle like busy highways and
intersections and stuff like.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
Pedestrians.

Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
Right Pedestrians all and intersections and stuff
like pedestrians, right,pedestrians, all kinds of stuff
like this.
Like, arguably, flying anairplane is more complicated for
a human than driving a car, butas far as automating something,
it might actually be easier toautomate an airplane than a car
because there's not as many.
There's not as many scenarios,yes, Close-in obstacles.

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
Close-in variables.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
We don't have those yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
We have a ton of airspace and if you put AI
working with air traffic controland AI in the plane, you know,
yeah, it should enhance safety.
I mean yeah, I mean it's kindof crazy to think about, but it
should.
I hope it doesn't.
I mean I want three pilots upthere.
Yeah, job security.

Speaker 1 (01:21:51):
I think they should bring back flight engineers and
a navigator.

Speaker 3 (01:21:56):
And a navigator yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
You got to get some entry-level positions, like you
know, scott and I could get intoyeah get some of those airline
pilot perks without actuallyhaving to right, I could be a
navigator okay, I would justtell the pilot what the gps is
telling me to tell him I wouldjust relay the message.

(01:22:19):
We'll get the union to demandthat the pilots don't have
access to the GPS from theirseats and then put it in a
different section behind them asa seat and then you sit in that
seat.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
I sit in that seat and run the GPS.

Speaker 1 (01:22:33):
Yeah, your heading's good Yep, a little to the left,
a little bit to the left.
Three clicks how much, I don'tknow, just turn a little bit to
the left and I'll let you know.
I'll tell you when the linesline up.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
Give it a one potato, two potato and then stop Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:22:56):
So renting or borrowing people's aircraft I
won't say who exactly, but let'ssay, hypothetically, I was
going to borrow somebody'sairplane, maybe this summer, and
I was concerned aboutmaintenance.
What do you look for?
As just a pilot who's not anAMP, and you're just walking in

(01:23:17):
kind of blind to what's going onwith a potential airplane?
Uh, I don't know.
Let's do a good pre-flight, isthat all you can do is just do a
good pre-flight?

Speaker 2 (01:23:31):
do you have access to their logbooks?
I would argue, if you're goingto like any flight school or
where you can rent, I mean, Iyou should have.
In my opinion, you should havecomplete access to their log
books.
Obviously you don't need theirwhole log history back to 1967,
but probably their last annual,the last 100 hour, you know,

(01:23:56):
last oil change, those sorts ofthings.
Get a good sample of itsmaintenance history, maintenance
practices, and if you seesomething like, for example, you
look back in the logbook andyou see, um, a replacement of
something, a damage of something, a repair, you want to be able
to match that up.

(01:24:16):
You need, you should take anote of what that is.
Okay, uh, wingtip replacement,whatever.
You should be able to go matchthat up and look at the wingtip.
Oh, left wing.
Oh, yeah, that looks like abrand new painted wingtip right
there.
You should be able to kind ofcorroborate the storage the
logbook is telling.

(01:24:36):
In my opinion.
Okay, take a few quick notes.

Speaker 1 (01:24:40):
I'll be able to take that out there as you do your
walk around okay, I kind of Ifigured it wasn't much you can
do unless you know really whatyou're looking at man, dude
lipstick on a pig, I mean, Imean all those sorts of things.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
Thorough pre-flight, I agree with scott.
I mean, but how, oh man, howthorough do you want to go?
Do you want to start looking atsafety wire on that bolt?
You want to start looking atthat?
Is that castle?
Yeah, I see there's a cotterpin through that castle nut, but
is that castle nut tight?
I mean, just what do you wantto do?
Yeah, how clean is that oil?

Speaker 1 (01:25:17):
I figured we were screwed, but you're just kind of
at the mercy of the A&P yeahpretty much.
Okay, another thing.
You flew a Super Cub back fromPennsylvania not too long ago.
What was that like?
Tell me this story.
We briefed on it a little bit.
You flew out in the Apache toget the, the, get the old, drop

(01:25:41):
off.
Yep, okay, start, kind of startfrom there was pennsylvania to
ohio yeah, this was like middlepennsylvania, back to basically
north central ohio.

Speaker 2 (01:25:54):
So I mean it was.
I can't remember how manynautical miles or whatever it
was, but a couple hundred, three300, I'm not sure, but it was
going to be for that airplane.
It was a significant crosscountry, you know better part of
a day.
So we fly out there and we'reup at I don't know 5,000 feet.
We just start getting rocked byturbulence.

(01:26:14):
We climb over 7,000 feet, so Iknew it was going to be rough
coming back.
This is in the Apache.
This is in the Apache and itwas pretty bad.
We come in.
My brother is a phenomenal pilot.
I mean just mind-boggling,self-consciousness-inducing.
Anyways, coming in land, noproblem.

(01:26:35):
The guy wanted to check me outon the airplane.
He wanted to make sure I wasgood to go to take you home.
He didn't even want to fly.
That's how windy and shitty itwas.
He's like I'm, I don't want tofly with you today.
So, whatever, like, okay, well,I'm gonna take it anyway.
So let you know, let's go.
So I haven't flown a super cubsince I have got to think 2012,

(01:27:01):
2011.
So 12, 15 years ago, yeah, 14years ago so.
And those are all on big Tundratires and blah, blah blah.
This one had these little tinylike 800 by 4 tires, really tiny
.

Speaker 1 (01:27:16):
You were complaining about how small the tires were
in the group chat.
They were very small and Scottshared your sentiment.
I'm just thinking about it.
Yeah, I'm so pissed.
Yeah, you just put me in a badmood.

Speaker 2 (01:27:27):
And I hadn't flown tailwheel.
So I went and got Kurt in myfamily's J3, now my brother's J3
, and flew that a couple times,like literally two times, and I
hadn't flown it since 2015 or2016, whatever it was.
So I wasn't really comfortable.
Got current in that, but notproficient.
Got more comfortable and thenthis is a totally different
airplane just cold, you knowcold.

(01:27:49):
Turkey got fluid, took off inthis wind.
Just get violent the mostviolent.

Speaker 1 (01:27:55):
Will you buy yourself , or did thomas go with you for
a little bit?

Speaker 2 (01:27:58):
no, no, just took off and headed to the first field.
Oh God, you're nuts.

Speaker 1 (01:28:02):
His dad went with him for the first leg or something,
but no it was apparently solofrom the get-go.

Speaker 2 (01:28:07):
Yeah, yeah, took off.
Just get absolutely rocked tothe point where I'm not my
hand's not on the throttleanymore.
Normally it's stick andthrottle right, just like
anything else.
I'm holding on to like a crossmember like to stay steady.
I mean just losing hundreds offeet with every hit of the oh,

(01:28:27):
it was beyond brutal it's theclosest to scared I've been in
an airplane ever in my life.
So we keep.
So I'm climbing out, I mean,mind you, this thing and the
perception is different too,because you're going so goddamn
slow I'm climbing into thisheadwind and my original plan
was to climb it to up to 4500.

(01:28:48):
I keep climbing until it getssmooth, because I knew at 7000
it was a lot smoother.
By then the day had warmed upsome, the wind had picked up
some, blah, blah, blah.
So it's now 8500.
It smooths out of like 82 or8300 feet like a light switch,
like it goes from rough as shitto glass smooth, like in a

(01:29:11):
couple hundred feet.
So now I have all thesegrandiose plants.
I have sun shades to blockbecause there's a lot of glass,
so there's a lot of sun comingin.
I can.
I have sun shades to blockbecause there's a lot of glass,
so there's a lot of sun comingin.
I can put up these sun shades.
I can get out my iPad, put inmy little kneeboard thing that I
got, which I have right here.
This thing is so freaking easyand sweet, but anyways, I have

(01:29:32):
all this new stuff.
I have this plan.
I got my snacks, got my water,whatever in the backseat.
I can't even get any of thisstuff.
It is so rough I'm afraid oflosing control of this airplane.
So I finally get up there.
I haven't navigated for like 20minutes.
I'm pointed.
I'm following this valleybecause my dad told me, because
he used to pick up airplanesbrand new from the Piper factory

(01:29:55):
at this airport and he's likeit'd be the smoothest if you go
that way.
I'm like, well, fuck, I don'tknow, I don't have any better
ideas, so I'm just gonna do that.
So I kind of head to thesouthwest and just follow this
ridge line and hope that it getsbetter the soonest and whatever
.
So I do that.
So I'm way off course from myoriginal course.
I'm way higher than Ioriginally thought, so that
means I went even furthersouthwest as I kept climbing.

(01:30:18):
So now I've got to find, figureout so I finally get up to 8,500
feet, get the iPad out so I cansee like this was what my line
is supposed to be.
This is where I am.
I've got to get back somewhereup to my fuel stop so I can kind
of make sense of where I am andfigure out these airports, like
pilotage and what my new courseneeds to be and all this stuff.

(01:30:38):
So I get to my first fuel stopand I mean I've so I've never
done a landing in this airplane.
I have no idea what's going on.
So I fly this pattern and I'mall, it's all great.
But if I backtrack I'm like I'mfour thousand feet higher than
I thought I was going to be.
I don't know how much fuel thisthing burns per hour.
Am I going to run out of gas,like because I did all my

(01:31:00):
planning on that?
Now there are other airports onthe way, but like I didn't do
any pre-flight planning for them, are they even open?
Can I get gas there?
I'm thinking about all thesethings while I'm trying to
maintain, control this airplane.
So I get up to altitude, I kindof get a bearing on how fast
I'm going across the ground, allthis stuff.
I'm like, okay, I'm going tomake it.
I I'm gonna have a little lessfuel than I thought, but it's

(01:31:20):
gonna be fine, like way fine,because I was.
It was a conservative fuel stopto begin with.
So I land there atrocious,freaking landing, as you can
imagine yeah, because it's wind.
It's windy as shit it's supposedto get better as I come east or
west, but not it's windier thanwas forecast it.

Speaker 3 (01:31:39):
It was just terrible that scared the shit out of me.
So this airplane- oh, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:31:43):
It's like I said, like I just bought this thing
and I'm going to wreck it on myfirst landing.
It's like what's going throughmy mind.

Speaker 1 (01:31:49):
That would be an incredible story yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:31:53):
It wasn't at the time .
It sounds fun right now, but itwas not at the time because
I've done two hours of whiteknuckle flying.
So now I got to descendbasically through this
turbulence I'm like bracing forimpact, for this turbulence that
I experienced back there, whichI know I embellish a lot all
the time.
It was bad.
I mean it was so bad.
My dad wanted to come with me,like you guys said, like he

(01:32:15):
thought he was going, he talkedabout it.
He didn't mention a word aboutit.
When we got on the ground thereit was brutal and you know, you
guys know my dad, I mean justlike whenever flying, he'll fly
in anything.
Yeah, I can sleep while I fly,type thing and actually fly, and
I mean it was brutal.

(01:32:36):
So I get there, I do my pattern.
I'm bracing for impact, likeyou know, because as I descend
from 8500 down you know I haveno radio there's active
parachute jumping at thisairport, which the airport
manager told me about the daybefore and I saw it on the chart
.
She told me about, like, ifit's a nice day and it's

(01:32:57):
supposed to be, they're going tobe parachute jumping and I'm
like well, is it accurate wherethey jump for what's on the
section?
She's like yeah, it's rightthere.
If you look at the chart,that's where they drop.
I'm like, okay, cool, I staynorth and if I remember
correctly, it's the south.
So I stay north and it workedout for the pattern.
Everything was fine.
I did see them, but I have noradio so I'm just looking out
the window and just gettingrocked.

(01:33:18):
Come around, do a normalpattern.
Look at the windsock, do anormal pattern?
Coming in land was super cruiseprop, so it doesn't slow down.
I'm used to a j3 where itdoesn't matter.
You can point it almost at theground and it's still slowing as
you point it at the ground.
This airplane is not like that.
So I have a.
I'm doing 70 whatever somethingon miles an hour on final with
this thing and just not slowingdown.

(01:33:40):
I chewed up a ton of runway ina Super Cub.
But if anybody can do it, I cando it.
So I just slow.
I mean I just use up all thefreaking runway, just totally
screwed it up.
I'm just in ground effect justworking this thing on in this
wind and I just use up a ton ofrunway and then do a bad landing
at the end.
Anyways, it's not like I used aton of runway to do a good
landing.
I used up a ton and did a badone.

Speaker 1 (01:34:02):
Anyone was watching.
They're like what the hell isthis guy doing?

Speaker 2 (01:34:05):
Well, and there were, there were, there were guys.
So I go up there and taxi overto the fuel thing because I
asked, I called ahead, askedwhere the fuel pumps are and
make sure there's no issues withthat, what credit cards it
takes, blah, blah, blah.
So I taxi over where theydescribed it was and it wasn't
marked.
So I'm glad I mean it was right.

Speaker 1 (01:34:23):
So I talk to the guy, he goes, oh, you had your hands
full, didn't you?

Speaker 2 (01:34:26):
I'm like, yeah, I'm glad you noticed, you know what
I mean.
It was just brutal, like I'mjust like tail between my legs,
you know, and get gassed andtake off.
And as I went further west,coming home, I get closer and
closer to familiar terrain.
I start feeling a little bitbetter.
I didn't climb as high, I thinkI only climbed like 4,500 or

(01:34:48):
6,500 initially, because I got agood sense of what the bumps
were like as I descended in forthis airport.
So I didn't climb as high andgot progressively smoother, like
it was supposed to.
The winds died down as I camefurther West.
I started getting into familiarplaces.
So I my pilotage I could, Icould devote less time, you know
descended below the Clevelandclass Bravo airspace, split a

(01:35:11):
couple other airspaces and then,uh, kept kept getting more and
more of a feel of what theairplane is actually doing, what
the performance and whatever.
Kept getting more and more of afeel of what the airplane is
actually doing, the performanceand whatever, and I ended up
saving like a half hour on theflight.
So it was a four and a halfhour flight, almost four hours
and 40 minutes.
Ended up doing it in four hours.
So I saved a lot of time onthat second leg.

(01:35:38):
And then, like I posted, onPilot Ground, I get up kind of
in the lake.
The the wind was out of thenorth east, north northeast, and
it started taking some of thatreally stable air from off the
lake, kind of inland, so aboutfive or ten miles south of the
lake.
You know.
I started really feeling somereally stable air and like super
, super smooth and um, I startedlike really seeing okay at this

(01:35:58):
power setting, once my eyesweren't jiggling.
Looking at the instrument panel, I could see this is my RPM,
this is my airspeed, I'mmaintaining altitude perfectly
and was really kind of able to,for the first time, to be able
to feel it out on this wholetrip.
And then I get up to FortClinton, do an okay landing
after learning everything fromthe last one, and then I had

(01:36:19):
this grandiose plan my family'sthere, my wife and kids are
there, I'm taking her for a ride, like I just got my ass kicked
for four hours and like all Iwant to do is go home, you know
oh, and so I.

Speaker 1 (01:36:31):
You had to fly people after that I will.

Speaker 2 (01:36:34):
I took my son for a quick ride.
I ended up having my brothertake my mom for a ride because I
just did not have it in me.
My daughter didn't even want togo for a ride, so I took her.
My wife still hasn't flown init yet, so I took my daughter.
She didn't want to go for aflight, but she wanted to ride
in it, so we just did like aquick little taxi thing and that
was enough for her.
But Will wanted to go fly, sowe did that and he didn't want

(01:37:02):
to come down.
But I'm like God, I just wantto go home.
And so I've flown a couple oftimes since then and it's I'm.
I have my comfort back, but Idon't have my proficiency or
skill back.
So that's a.

Speaker 3 (01:37:08):
That's a work in progress, but I got to own the
plane now, so you'll get it.
Yeah, I know you do.
All right, see you, scott.
Have a good one, scott, I'llsee you yeah, later later I got
a full beer right here I got

Speaker 2 (01:37:24):
a half of one here mind if I use a restroom can I
do that?

Speaker 1 (01:37:37):
yeah, go for it.
Okay, we're not live.
So, yeah, right, that's what Iwas thinking.
I'll hopefully be able to editthis out, but I'll maybe talk
some gibberish just in case.
Oh, there you go.
Okay, I just feel terribleabout the live stream.
I was looking it up.
Yeah, hundreds of people hadopened the email.
I sent it out kind of late, soI don't know what that equates

(01:37:59):
to how many people opened theemail versus what would have
been on the live stream watching.
But yeah, I'll have to figureout what happened and try to
make that not happen in a fewmonths.
Hopefully we'll record again ina few months.

Speaker 2 (01:38:17):
Yeah, that's unfortunate.
I mean, I'm looking forward tointeracting with everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:38:21):
Yeah, it's better with the live chat, for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:38:25):
What I'm happy about is I think we've covered the
commercial crime.
It's pretty good, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:38:31):
Yeah, yeah, I think that section, that's what I'm
going to title the show.
Yeah, but so how many hours yougot in the new plane then?

Speaker 2 (01:38:46):
Um, I can tell you exactly.
I don't know off the top of myhead, but I would say around
seven.
Uh, I can tell you exactly.
So, my, it does not have aHobbs meter which typically goes
off either electrical or oilpressure On more complex

(01:39:06):
airplanes off like a squatswitch.
So when the weight comes offthe wheels on a retractable gear
airplane and that really givesyou the most accurate time in
service is a squat switch or anair switch.
Some things have an air switchwhich we're going to put in mine
.
Mine has no timekeeping deviceat all.
You have to do it all manually.

(01:39:27):
There's no tack time, there'sno Hobbs time, nothing.
So you have to do it allmanually.
So, as of right now yeah, Imean in the 7.4 hour is what I
have in it.

Speaker 1 (01:39:41):
How do you know how accurate your times are then?

Speaker 2 (01:39:45):
I look at a clock basically when I'm about to take
off.

Speaker 3 (01:39:49):
Yeah, I understand how you do it.

Speaker 1 (01:39:51):
I mean from like a you would just purchase this,
and it's obviously not new.

Speaker 2 (01:39:55):
Oh, no, yeah, you don't, you're just kind of
trusting that the other personwas accurate.
I'm trusting that they're doingbasically what I'm doing, and
I'm sure there is a high degreeof error, to be honest.
But this is not the firstairplane I've seen like that

(01:40:18):
from a wear and tear perspective.
Let's say I am a superconservative mechanical engineer
who owns a Bonanza retractableairplane that operates on a
squat switch, but I taxi from myhangar out to the runway and
I'm waiting to take off, but I'mat the hold short line for that

(01:40:40):
runway.
I wait until I have optimal oiltemperature.
So my engine's been running.
How long does it take to get tooptimal oil temperature?
Clearly it is accruing wear andtear on the engine sitting
there at roughly idle to getthat oil temperature.
It's not gaining any time onthe airframe or engine this

(01:41:04):
whole time because that thathobbs meter is not running.
it's not really that muchdifferent in my mind yeah you
cannot quantify how much timesomebody spends taxing, doing
leak, like run-ups for a leakcheck.
You can't do it.
So I just don't see it as thatmuch different, although when

(01:41:27):
that thing does take off, youhave a very good idea how much
time it spends at high powersettings and whatever.
And so we're actually going tobe installing in my airplane an
air switch, going to beinstalling in in my airplane a
air switch, so we're going topull power to an air switch.
That then runs to a hobs meterso it gets power, but the but it

(01:41:49):
doesn't close until it gets acertain amount of air speed and
that's when the hobs meter,rolled, start running.
So we will have super accuratetime and service numbers.
So again, when I'm taxiingaround or just staying still
letting it warm up in thewintertime, let's say I'm doing
ski flying and I want good oiltemperature before I run it up

(01:42:12):
hard or run it hard, I'm goingto let it warm up.
I want that.
Why wouldn't I want that?
I do so.
It's not going to accrue anytime and service.
And it warm up.
I want that.
Why wouldn't I want that?
I do so.
It's not going to accrue anytime and service and it
shouldn't.
The definition of time andservice for an aircraft, for an
airframe or an engine is fromthe time it leaves the ground

(01:42:33):
till the next time it touchesdown on the ground.
All that taxi time run-ups,whatever warm-ups, none of that
should count, and so I'm tryingto make mine parallel that as
best I can.
It's cost-saving a little bitof weight, but it's some cost
savings for me, and it alsodoesn't make me in any form of

(01:42:59):
rush to just go jump in the airwith a less than warmed up or
whatever engine that makes sense.
Yeah, and I'm aligning with thedefinition.

Speaker 1 (01:43:06):
So yeah what I can't find those 90.
I was kind of looking for thema little bit, since you bought
one just for sale.
I can't find the 90 horse supercubs.

Speaker 2 (01:43:19):
Not many of them, they quit making them kind of in
the early 50s and or mid 50s, Ishould say.
Well, actually you know what Itake that back.
They kept making them untilmaybe the early 60s, but it was
obviously not common because the150 horse came out in 1954.
And they had prior to that theyhad 125s and 135 horse, they

(01:43:43):
had 105s, 125s, 135s and thenfinally 1954, 150s, and that
pretty much continued until 1989.
And then they did a special runin 1994.
They made 12 of them in 1994.
But the 150s is what they madethe whole time after 1954.
Um, so the 90s, yeah, I'm notright.

Speaker 1 (01:44:09):
I mean they're rarer for sure they made 12 of them in
1994 yeah, that is specialorder um special order of them
in 1994.

Speaker 2 (01:44:18):
Huh, huh, yeah, and that's why that I mean I would
love to have one of those lastones.
I mean that one like in like onpilot ground, that one in
Nebraska I do.
I mean that would be.
I mean I don't.
I think it's like up to 136.
That's pretty good deal.
I spent 90 on mine for a nine4990 horse but I got.

(01:44:43):
It's got issues, just likeeverything else.
Although it was meticulouslymaintained by the guru of Cubs,
all of those things in a greatpedigree, it's still got things
that need tweaked and donedifferently.

Speaker 1 (01:44:56):
Who's the guru of Cubs?

Speaker 2 (01:44:59):
His name is Clyde Smith.
Okay, he was actually a productengineer for Piper on the Super
Cub in Lock Haven before theymoved to Vero Beach.
Okay, so he still lives there.
He is like the world-renownedCub guru.
He was the one maintaining thisairplane when I got it.
Really, I mean, they did agreat job with everything.

Speaker 1 (01:45:23):
So it's all downhill from here.

Speaker 2 (01:45:26):
Well, yeah, but I guess what I'm saying is, though
, even though it does have thatpedigree, does have that
maintenance history, you're justgoing to find stuff.
I'm not saying they didanything wrong, they're just
things that I kind of have alittle bit of a different
opinion.
I don't want to say I want togo in a different direction,
because that's not the rightthing, but I have a little bit

(01:45:46):
of a different opinion on howthings should be done, and
there's a little bit of subjectto some interpretation.
It's my airplane now, so Ithink, for example, like
elevator travel, I think itshould be.
This is how I would.
Obviously it's black and whitehow you want to measure it and

(01:46:07):
define it, but whatever, that issomething that is ongoing.
To be honest, in my airplanethere's an elevator travel issue
depending on where your seatposition is, and I don't think
it should be subject to seatposition.
I think you should be able toget that full elevator travel,
no matter what position the seatis in.
The stick should not bottom outon the seat frame.

Speaker 1 (01:46:29):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:46:31):
So I think I should be able to have the seat all the
way forward, because I'm veryshort.
A lot of people probably don't,but I'm very short, very, very
so I need to have the seat allthe way forward, and then I wish
it could come forward more, butI have it all the way forward
and if I do that and I actuallydon't fly with it all the way
forward, but if I wanted to, forwhatever reason the seat would

(01:46:54):
hit the, the stick would hit theseat frame before I get full
elevator travel and even if it'sin an intermediate position
where the stick comes back, itwill hit the control stop, not
the seat frame anymore, but itwill still be five degrees less
elevator travel than what itshould have.

(01:47:16):
So just little things like that.
I'm not saying anything.
I think it's great, I thinkthey did a phenomenal job and I
wouldn't change a thing.
But we are going to change somethings.
It's just the way it is.
When you have an aircraft soyou can go, you know if you're a
broker, a seller or you'reshopping, you have to account
for even if it is exactly asrepresented, you need to count

(01:47:40):
on spending.
I would have said years ago.
I would have said five grand,but probably these days you got
to count on spending 10 grand.
Even if it is exactly, you'repaying a fair price, it's
exactly as represented.
I would plan on spending 10grand over the first couple
years of ownership.

Speaker 1 (01:47:59):
Yeah, that's reasonable.

Speaker 2 (01:48:03):
I mean, I have two, two, three thousand dollars
worth of parts that I orderedfor the plane before I even took
possession of it.
Yeah, and some of those aresomewhat, you know, uh, subject
to you know like what Ipersonally want, but some of
it's like why wasn't that done?
Why doesn't I have this?

Speaker 1 (01:48:21):
so oil filter you have mentioned these before.
I looked these up too, after Ididn't find any 90s anywhere
yeah for whatever reason, itmade me think of those legend
cubs you had mentioned yeah,they make one that seems very
close to the j3.
Yes, only it seems like it'scertified to solo in the front

(01:48:41):
seat.
Yes, and it seems like it hasan electrical system still yes
okay, I'm just curious, let'sstart.
Let's start it like a couplehundred grand new, which I was.
It was just interesting to meyou think?
that's higher.
No, I feel like that's that'sreasonable for a brand new

(01:49:01):
airplane these days.
Obviously, it's very small,very basic plane, so it makes
sense.
Yeah, I was just hypotheticallyjust thought processes Like if
you're going to start a flightschool where you wanted to train
people in tailwheel as theprimary which has always kind of
been in my mind like I probablywould never want to start a

(01:49:24):
flight school, but if I did, Iwould want to do primary and
tailwheel just out of principle,let's do it.
And call it pilot ground, um,and it seems like that would be
a potential plane to do to justhave a have like two or three of

(01:49:47):
those, yeah, and it's like ifyou're doing primary, you you do
that.
Like that's what you'd have tohave instructors that are
comfortable teaching tailwheelwhich those are a rare breed,
yeah, comfortable teachingtailwheel which those are a rare
breed yeah, but you learninghow to fly and something like
that would be put your skilllevel stick and rudder skills
way higher than than most peoplelearning how to fly today for

(01:50:09):
sure yeah yeah, I think it's areasonable obviously you have to
figure out something else ifyou're going to do instrument
training now I think the way togo with that is probably just
really focus on doing planerides and tailwheel endorsements
yeah not primary

Speaker 2 (01:50:30):
no, not a lot of it.
Maybe maybe work in a way to doum, like a flight review or
whatever, but like, not do like,hey, you're not going to start
to finish your private pilotcertificate in this, because
eventually it comes to a pointwhere they're gonna have to do
solo time, and it's just.
It would just be really hardnow granted, they get their

(01:50:52):
tailwheel endorsement in theprocess they used to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:50:55):
This is how people used to learn.
Why is everybody such a pussynow that they can't?
They can't learn how to do itin a in a tailwheel yeah, I mean
, they don't even have to handprop the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:51:07):
It's like come on yeah yeah, well, you know, I
agree with you.
You know, I just look at likewhat I have gone through with my
um, coming back to ga a littlebit and then getting into one of
these ultra light.
I shouldn't use excess naturalterm um very light a very light

(01:51:29):
aircraft that is easily tossablein the wind, very subject to
the windy conditions, and it'snot easy.
And I got 9,000 hours of flyingtime now coming up on 9,000
hours of flying time, so it'slike it's just not easy.

(01:51:50):
So when I think of taking on anentry level student and taking
them from never flying anairplane to they're going to
solo in a tailwheel, I know thatit can be done.
I totally get that.
But I mean, at this stage of mylife, that is just a that's a
threat matrix position that Idon't really want to be in.

(01:52:12):
To be honest, I see, hey, let'sgo fly for a weekend, we're
going to have a couple of reallygreat lunches and we're going
to knock out your tailwheelendorsement.
That's what I want to do.
There's no unsupervised solo.
There's no solo.
There's no nothing.

(01:52:33):
Your work.
There's an instructor on boardwho can completely control the
amount of wear and tear for themost part.
Um, that's going on thatairframe.
That that's the way I wouldwant to run it.

Speaker 1 (01:52:47):
I don't want that's why nobody does this with
something like that I mean Iwouldn't want to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:52:53):
I mean and that is my favorite, my favorite is doing
entry-level instruction.
I feel like that is the onewhere you are making the biggest
impact on somebody.
They come in the door theydon't know anything other than
that they probably want to learnhow to fly, and then you take
them to solo, you do a solocross-countries, and then they
take them to solo you to a solocross countries, and then they

(01:53:14):
take their check ride and it'slike, dear Lord, like I've made
a profound impact on thisperson's life and whatever.
And that's that's a veryrewarding thing to me of those
same things.
But unfortunately that justratchets up the responsibility

(01:53:36):
on me, that ratchets up thethreat to me that just you go
send somebody on a solo crosscountry in a J3 Cub.
For all intents and purposes,that's a little nerve-wracking,
don't you think?
What if it's windier thanforecast we were planning?
on them landing runway one, butnow they've got to land on

(01:53:56):
runway one-zero and it's like,oh, I don't know what they're
going to do.
When we went there we didn'tland on that runway and no-dums
and.

Speaker 1 (01:54:07):
I was thinking it'd just make for such better pilots
.

Speaker 2 (01:54:10):
Well, there's no doubt.
There's no doubt, and you know,better pilots need better
instructors, and I'm not one ofthem.

Speaker 3 (01:54:18):
That's just the way it is.

Speaker 1 (01:54:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:54:20):
For me.
That's the way I look at it.
I am not at that level where Ican turn out that level of
product.

Speaker 1 (01:54:33):
So the deficiency is on me and I'm'm just I guess I'm
letting that be known.
Yep, here's another aircraft inthis hypothetical school that
has crossed my mind is, uh, thesatabria yeah, yeah still a tail
whale.
You're still getting way moreskills than you do in like a 172
or a Warrior, an Archer,something like your typical

(01:54:55):
trainer.
It's not as limited in windamounts.
So you in theory could add aninstrument rating to your school
and have the same aircraft onyour fleet, same engines across

(01:55:16):
the entire fleet for yourmaintenance.
That'd be a big thing of mine.
If you're going to do something, it's just have the exact same
aircraft, exact same engine foreverything.
What's that guy?
I just mentioned his biographyto you the other day Southwest,
oh, herb Keller.
Herb Keller, yeah, you readthat and you realize.

(01:55:38):
Yeah, that's the way to run afleet of aircraft is make sure
they're all the same.
It eliminates so many differentvariables, but anyway the
Satabria variables, but anywaythe satabria same.
Make model satabrias, all ifrcertified, all the exact same

(01:55:59):
engines.
I think you could run a flightschool off of that and there'd
be a value proposition.
It'd be more difficult.
You're not going to get thesame type of clientele that like
ADP is going for, or Americanflyers, I don't know.
I look at the way I learned howto fly as very good.

(01:56:23):
I didn't realize it at the timeuntil I saw how everybody else
was learning how to fly.
If I could go back and changeone thing, the only thing I
would change is I would havedone it in a tailwheel, which I
could have done.
Don could have taught us in atailwheel.
He's got no problem instructingin a tailwheel.
I just I didn't know anythingwhen I got into flying and the
150 was great.

(01:56:44):
But I just feel like I wouldhave been a better pilot if I
did my whole initial in atailwheel something.

Speaker 2 (01:56:57):
No, I don't think anybody would agree or disagree
with that.
But I think what maybe youwould run into, though, is you
know, from a, I own thisbusiness and I have somebody
walking through that door andremember, you have instructors
who are comfortable now.
They're tailwheel certified,they're comfortable flying
tailwheel, and with that I thinkthere is a built-in amount of

(01:57:21):
experience that they have thatthe corresponding local 141
flying Cherokees or 172s doesnot have.
How did they get that time?
Did they pay for it?
Maybe they did so, I think, butso I either way, I think that
instructor gets paid more.
I think your instructor getspaid more, which means your hour
cost gets is more.

(01:57:43):
Maybe you got a real.
You're doing really well andyou're buying the airplanes
right and you've streamlined itbecause you're offline, you have
fleet commonality and all thesethings.
You do everything you can onthat front.
But now you have somebody comein the door and you're the first
place they checked out, or thethird place, or the 15th place

(01:58:05):
they've checked out.
Like, well, why am I going tospend 10% to 15% more to learn
from you than go down the roadto ABC Flight School and learn
from them?
What are you going to teach me?
You'd have to take the luxuryapproach you try to make the
case that, well, when you'redone here, you're going to be a

(01:58:26):
much better pilot.
When you're done here, you'regoing to be a much better pilot.
Like, well, in the age ofGoogle, Grok, whatever, they're
going to be asking all thesequestions when they go home.

Speaker 1 (01:58:41):
So I think, is there anything that's going to say
that you learning a tailwheeldoesn't make you a way better
pilot than not?

Speaker 2 (01:58:51):
I think what probably .
I don't think anybody out theremake that argument yeah, but
that's not who's going to beanswering their question.
Probably they might go to aforum and that might be your
saving grace that gets them tocome back to you.
I'm dude, you know.
I'm on the same wavelength aswhat you're talking about.
I'm just playing devil'sadvocate.
If you're pitching a businessthing to me right now, I think

(01:59:12):
they're going to go talk to aiand all ai is going to dig up
for them and their little googlesearch is going to be that
learning to fly tail wheels moredifficult and some of them be
like, oh, I'm into that, that'sright up my alley.
And then other people are like,yeah, it's more money and it's
harder, I'm gonna go over goover here.

Speaker 1 (01:59:30):
You're going to purge everybody on price and
everybody who just wants to easyroute For sure.

Speaker 2 (01:59:36):
But to what end are you going to lose how many of
them?
How many people want to learnto fly to begin with?
Now you're in a market wheremaybe you can lose 20% to 30% of
the people and be like, oh, wegot more than we can handle as
it is, maybe, maybe.
And to 30% of the people and belike we got more than we can
handle as it is, maybe, maybe,and that's fine.
I'm just saying those areconsiderations that I would have
, because it's not easy.

(01:59:57):
You know, you get somebody done, you got to replace them.
You finish a private pilotcertificate.
You have to replace them.

Speaker 1 (02:00:05):
This isn't something I don't think would not work in
Ohio.
It'd have to be in Florida,where, where there's more money,
obviously because you'reselling a premium salute.
Learning how to fly is alreadya somewhat premium thing, if you
look at it.
And this is even on top of thatand you're basically saying
that you know, like ifsomebody's coming in for price,

(02:00:27):
it's like we would do at theferrari dealership.
It's like, yeah, we're the mostexpensive place you can
instruct.
Like that's a bragging point,like and everybody has to have
that attitude who works?
and I get that where it's likesomeone brings a price you'd be
like oh, absolutely, we are.
We are absolutely the mostexpensive, and here's why, like

(02:00:47):
that's kind of the approachyou'd have to have with it yeah
yeah and I get that, um, getthat.

Speaker 2 (02:00:53):
I think there is something to be said for that.
I think that would help youland some of the people.
I have always maintained thisis completely divorced from the
tailwheel, versus conventionalor not conventional, but
tricycle gear conversation.
What I didn't understand myfirst year, year and a half

(02:01:13):
flight instructing is it's asales position yeah and I hate
to say this kind of out loudthat's the quiet part out loud.
You're not really there to teachpeople to fly.
You're there to keep themcoming back.
Keep them, because if they arecoming back, that means they
enjoy their time with you.

Speaker 1 (02:01:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:01:33):
Whatever it is that you're doing and yeah, you know,
for from a um statisticsstandpoint, you know you want to
get people done, but there is asegment of people that that you
know, that I experienced.
It's not a high percentage, butI obviously I did a much
smaller market than you knowsome of these other big

(02:01:54):
commercial schools and bigcommercial areas.
There's a small percentage thatall you can expect is for them
to just show up next week.
They want to be spoon-fedeverything.
They're going to go at snail'space and your job is just keep
them happy doing that.
What does it matter to you ifthey if they you don't want to

(02:02:16):
be too mission oriented withthose people you want to treat
them with kid gloves.
You want to keep them happy,keep them coming back.
What does it matter to you ifthey don't have the ambition to
really get through or they'renot comfortable or whatever the
reason is, whatever theirreasoning behind learning to fly
is, or their reasoning for notpursuing the certificate, they
want to learn to fly but they'renot pursuing a certificate.

(02:02:38):
It's kind of a weird thing, butI've experienced that.
There are several people that Igot all the way through solo
cross countries and theycompletely petered out.
I mean, there were a couplepeople that bought airplanes.
They owned airplanes and didn'thave any real desire to get to
get their license taxes whatever, write-offs whatever.

(02:03:02):
We're not in that big of amarket.
We're talking that.
I mean maybe a little bit, butit's just like you just keep
them coming back.
All they want to do is theywant an insurance policy.
They want the joy of going andflying, perhaps, but they want
you to be the insurance, thecheap insurance, for them to go,
enjoy what they enjoy doing andnot really have any of the

(02:03:24):
responsibility.
And it took me a long time tofigure that type of shit out.

Speaker 1 (02:03:31):
That makes sense.

Speaker 2 (02:03:35):
It does, so you have to play that game a little bit
too.

Speaker 1 (02:03:37):
you know, in terms of those people, the 141 schools,
a terrible idea for them.
Like that's awful.
Like I would say.
I lean more towards what youwere saying then, like I had a
terrible experience.
Every time I try to do a 141program is because it's like,
hold on, what is this craziness?
Like I want to actually masterthis little segment here.

(02:04:00):
Let's do some more lessons onthis.
And that just does not fit in a141 program.
We're like you know what we didlast week?
Hold on, let's go do that again.
Like I didn't quite feelcomfortable with that.
I want to go redo that and I'lldo that with a lot of stuff and,
um, yeah, that's just that'sdifferent.
It a lot.
It costs more money to do itthat way, but I, if you're able

(02:04:24):
to do it, that's a.
I think you have this concrete.
You're not skipping over stuff.
When I was taking check rides II was very proficient at the
check rides I was doing becauseif there's anything I wasn't 100
on, I just go do some morelessons on it and until I was
just dead on and everythingwhich obviously if you looked at

(02:04:48):
what I paid for my ratingsversus even though I own my own
airplane for a lot of them Iwould still say it would be
higher like amount of hours andstuff.
My solo was very quick, forwhatever reason, but a lot of
other aspects.
I had a lot more hours, Notjust total time, but if you
drill down to each littlerequirements, like I went way

(02:05:09):
over on a lot of stuff justbecause it's like I want to
actually know how to do this andI think that falls in line with
a lot of um, the uh.

Speaker 2 (02:05:19):
You know the personality type that wants to
learn how to fly and wants to dosome of these types of things.
It's that very, very type apersonality.
You know where're a successfulbusiness people or people, very
competitive people, whatever.
That's all those types ofpeople and that makes sense.

(02:05:39):
They're not used to and most ofthe things they do in their
life they're able to practice,practice, practice and dial it
in and be perfect.
And a lot of these courses arenot really designed to get you
the bare minimum, like barely beable to check that box.
Yes, we covered it, let's moveon.
And a lot of us are like, well,hold on, I want to master that.

(02:06:01):
And sometimes that acceleratedtraining can manifest, or the
shortcomings of that acceleratedtraining can manifest
themselves, not super often,because with that there is some
serious structure.
As you and I both know, therecomes some serious structure

(02:06:22):
with the 141 training programsthat can be obviously very
easily lost at 61.
So you're taking some good withsome bad.
You know, yeah, you want tomaster the thing but, like some
of the, some of the proceduralthings, like you see, I'm not
proficient with whatever this,this uh, uh, stick and rudder of

(02:06:45):
okay, I just had an enginefailure at 1100 feet and I gotta
swing it back aroundProcedurally.
They're thinking like, okay,we're going to get out this, I
have this flow memorized to doall these steps to get this
engine running.
I'm not saying you can't doboth of those things, I'm just

(02:07:06):
saying that that's kind of thecontrast.
I'm trying to make Procedurallychecklist, sops, regulations.
Those 141 guys have us beatbecause that is kind of the
world they live in, where maybethey don't have the stick and
rudder per se, or they live inmore of a fantasy land where
everything's more cut and dried.
But there are definitely somepositives to the 141 too that I

(02:07:31):
feel that I never had.

Speaker 1 (02:07:34):
For sure, for sure.
I just feel like if I did thishypothetical school, I'd try to
combine a lot of that.
A lot of that drill down stuff,yeah, but in more of a like I'd
be going after the clientelethat is not trying to blast
through ratings to go get anairline job and I'm with you.

Speaker 2 (02:07:56):
I just think that you will starve for the first lots
of years.
I love what you're after.

Speaker 1 (02:08:02):
I love.
I don't think I I don't know ifI'd do it, or if I did it it'd
be, like you know, when I'mretired and I'm just more of a
hobby business.

Speaker 2 (02:08:10):
Well, you better have a pile of cash to get you the
for.
Through the first few years Ithink that it will sell.
But until you have a reputationand when the word of mouth
spreads enough where you canhave whatever five, six
full-time students to keep youafloat um per instructor I then

(02:08:30):
I.
I think it's going to be areally rough road.
Up until that point I loveeverything that you're saying.
We infuse the 141, the SOPs andall of the technical knowledge
and big picture stuff of the 141, but then we're also giving you

(02:08:51):
the stick and rudder skills onthe other side of it.
Yep, we're giving you the fullpackage in a little bit of an
unconventional manner and it'sin brand new Satabria's IFR
certified.

Speaker 1 (02:09:03):
We have the highest paid instructors.
They're not their.
Their career aspirations are tobe instructors.
They're not trying to just dothis to build time.
And then there's a premiumprice for this.

Speaker 2 (02:09:15):
And I think you have a great case.
But I just think you knowyou've got to have a pile of
cash to sit on to get youthrough until you have that
critical mass rolling where theword of mouth that machine.
As soon as you get somebodydone, you've got somebody else
coming in the door.

Speaker 1 (02:09:32):
Yeah, you know, you need a waiting list.

Speaker 2 (02:09:35):
Yeah, well, ideally you have a waiting list.
Yeah, ideally you have awaiting list.
Yep, for sure.

Speaker 1 (02:09:40):
I spent time at Ferrari Like the whole thing
would just be taking the wayFerrari does with their cars.
Let's just apply that to a highend flight school.

Speaker 2 (02:09:50):
Yeah, just apply that to a high-end flight school.
Yeah, I mean so you should haveno students but still have a
waiting list.
Right, that's where you'regetting at.

Speaker 1 (02:09:55):
What do you mean?

Speaker 2 (02:09:56):
When you open the doors day one, you have a
waiting list.

Speaker 1 (02:09:58):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:09:59):
You know, I mean that exclusivity, you know, and
there's no reason it shouldn'tbe exclusive from day one.
Yeah, you know what yourproduct is and you know what
you're offering, and there's nodoubt that the outcome will be
that.
So why not sell the exclusivitya little bit?

(02:10:19):
I only have one student, butthere's still a waiting list.

Speaker 1 (02:10:28):
We're going to try to get you in.
Maybe we can get you an introflight, let's see how it goes.
Let's kind of have like ferraridoes it?
If you, if you walk in aferrari dealership as a joe
schmoe who's never, it doesn'tmatter how much money you have
like you're not going to goplace a custom order typically,

(02:10:48):
I mean you can be you can bereally lucky.
You could potentially maybeknow somebody.
They could potentially have abuild slot open, but that's
typically not the case.
Yeah, you're just like slow down, you're going to buy some used
cars from us.
We're going to establish arelationship and over time, you

(02:11:11):
know, we could get youpotentially some build slots on
some eight cylinders and thenpotentially 12 cylinders down
the road.
If you're interested, likeyou're, not just oh, I want to
order a brand new, you know thelatest, hottest model, exactly
how I want it, and you've neverowned a ferrari before.
This is typically not going tohappen and that's.

(02:11:34):
There's a mentality that theyhave waiting lists like crazy
for those cars and they chargecrazy money for those cars and
is there any allure to orderingit from a specific dealership?
I don't know.
I mean, each dealership wouldprobably tell you yes, but no,

(02:11:55):
and and the relationship is perdealership, right, like if you
have a relationship with withone dealership.
It doesn't mean you can go toanother dealership and just like
, okay, um, maybe if they seeyou as like a huge customer,
they know you're a huge customerand you got ticked off.

(02:12:16):
That's happened before.
There was a location I worked at.
It was another location whereit was a famous golfer.
You'd know his name.
He's a huge customer withFerraris golfer.
You'd know his name he was.
He's a huge customer withferraris and um, he got ticked

(02:12:37):
at the dealership it wasactually somebody took a photo
of one of his custom order cars.
So he stopped buying cars fromthis individual dealership and
he went to another dealershipand um, they worked with him
because they knew he was a hugeferrari guy.
Him being famous probablyhelped somewhat famous.
Um, it's not the, it's not theone you're thinking of, that

(02:13:00):
everybody knows.
But if you're into golf youwould have heard of this guy.
Uh, and yeah, like.
So so that was an exceptionwhere, but usually not like,
usually you gotta then kind ofre-establish that makes sense a
relationship if you switchdealerships.
But they knew he orders like aone every other month and like

(02:13:24):
they're like okay, let's caterto this guy because he's no
longer going there.
We know he orders a ton of cars.
Let's get him build slots yeahso, yeah, you take that
mentality to like a high-endflight school and it's.
Yeah, I just think you could.

(02:13:44):
You could create the ideal wayto really learn how to fly like
stick and rudder, like in theclassic sense of like pilots
just used to be better likestick and rudder.
Um, I think you could do that.
I just I think you'd have to doit in a way where you're taking

(02:14:07):
money out of the equation alittle bit because you can't do
that as cheaply.
That's the.
That's why most flight schoolshave gone towards the direction
that they've gone now is becauseeconomics.
So the only way to go back tothat kind of classic, heirloom
flight legend style learning howto fly is it just have to be

(02:14:30):
marketed as a premium productyeah, I mean looking at what the
larger Cirrus, you know Piper'shigher-end offerings, obviously
Cessna with their citationmodel line.

Speaker 2 (02:14:48):
they're not backing away from this entry level up
into what do I want to say likethe pathway.
All of these airplanes are alla pathway to upgrades as you
progress through your flyingcareer and your ratings and your
experience level.

(02:15:09):
So there's I mean there's moneyin it.
They all recognize it.
We all know that.
I mean it's a foregoneconclusion, but it just from
everything that I ever saw, justbecause of where we're from,
it's just, yeah, there are verywealthy people doing it and

(02:15:30):
they're great customers to have,but it's just most of them.
That's not most of them.

Speaker 1 (02:15:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:15:36):
So you're going to, obviously,from an FBO standpoint, you
teach somebody to fly.
You sell them an airplane.
You make a commission onselling them an airplane.
You sell them maintenance, yousell them hangar rent, you sell
them gas.
So I hangar rent, you sell themgas.
So I mean it just cascades outand you know that is a lot of

(02:15:58):
the drive, but, like, if you'rejust man, do you always have
that?
I mean, most of the time that'sthe ideal scenario, the ideal
scenario, but most of the time,you know now, like that, I've
seen you get somebody a ratingand then you see them maybe
almost never again.

(02:16:18):
Like they go buy an airplaneand base it somewhere else.
They only rent once, uh, onceor twice a year and one of them
is their flight review.
Then they fly like the weekafter their flight review and
then you don't see them againuntil their next flight review.

(02:16:41):
It's stuff like that and it'slike I know life gets in the way
and stuff, and whatever.
You know, a student through isa student through and you know a
flight review is great, andthen them renting an airplane a
couple times a year after that,um, it's all.
It's all great, you know, butit's just.
It's just a different market.

(02:17:01):
Like I can't even imagine amarket where you're able to sell
somebody on like hey, you know,yeah, we're more expensive than
everybody else, but here's why.
And then them buying it.
I guess I guess that's thekicker them being like, yeah,
that sounds good, you know.

Speaker 1 (02:17:19):
Yeah, it's, it's just how much money's in the area,
for sure.

Speaker 3 (02:17:22):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:17:24):
Palm beach is different than Sandusky.
That's just.
There's no ways around that.
Shocking, yeah, shocking.
Okay.
Well, that's a that's.
I feel like we ended on thisnote.
I forgot I had a project Istarted gettailnumberscom I
completely forgot to mention.
I think I'm just gonna throw anad in the beginning of all
episodes to kind of run that and, uh, I'll explain it.

Speaker 2 (02:17:47):
Four episodes a year huh, it's probably gonna give
you a lot of traction.
Four episodes a year.

Speaker 1 (02:17:56):
Well, I can run an ad that plays at the beginning of
the entire back catalog.

Speaker 2 (02:17:58):
Oh yeah, so you get those emails.

Speaker 1 (02:18:01):
I mean, the entire back catalog is still getting a
decent amount of plays everymonth.
I don't.

Speaker 2 (02:18:07):
I didn't even look at them until I went to sign in
today for this.

Speaker 1 (02:18:12):
Oh, really.
So yeah, that's not so good,not as much as when we're
publishing every week, butthere's still a lot of just
classic, timeless episodes to goin the back catalog.
Yeah well, let's keep makingthem.
Yeah, once a quarter, that's agood rhythm for I feel like
where we're at in our lives.
Keep it going.
Keep Pilot Ground going.
Yeah, check out the forums.

(02:18:35):
Don't just sign up and notparticipate.
It's a worthless sign up.
Sign up and comment and getinvolved.
Try to answer other people'squestions.
Ask questions.
You've got a question Askquestions.
There is so much knowledgebetween all of us on there right
now I mean it's if you can helpguide the conversation oh yeah,

(02:19:00):
everybody gets elevated becauseI try to think of stuff to ask
and I do it right every dayright it's so hard to do and uh,
when other people come in withlike just random stuff, they're
not trying to think of a goodquestion, they're just they have
a question that those are thebest seriously, yeah, you see an
article, you something that'sbeen, you saw a youtube video,

(02:19:21):
whatever let's.

Speaker 2 (02:19:22):
I mean, let's talk about things you know, because
you know, if we, even if we haveto go research, like I mean,
we're researching with our ownbody of experience behind it,
none of that makes any sense oris really pertinent.
It's just fun though.
Yeah, it's fun, I mean, as theconversation everybody learns a

(02:19:45):
little bit more.

Speaker 1 (02:19:45):
I don't want to say the link verbally, because I
don't want to sear it in.
I want to be able to pull thelink if I want, but if we are
still deciding to have the linkavailable, it will be available
in the show description herePilotgroundcom.
If you just go there right now,it doesn't take you anywhere,
it doesn't forward it.
You got to add a littlesomething at the beginning,

(02:20:07):
which maybe you can see below inthe description, or maybe we
got frustrated with a bunch ofpeople signing up without
participating, so we just pulledit, and then I don't know what
you do.
Then you just have to wanderaround on Reddit.
Good luck with those mods.
All right, they're no fun.
That's we'll.
We'll leave it at that, though.

(02:20:28):
Thanks for listening, andhopefully we can pull another
one off in Q3.

Speaker 2 (02:20:34):
Yeah, looking forward to it Later.
All right, see you.

Speaker 3 (02:20:49):
Okay, finally it shut over.
Pulse is.

Speaker 1 (02:20:50):
X, then it kind of knows about what your vo2 max
would be gotcha something I'mnot probably ever gonna do.
I probably don't need to knowthat number, it's probably yeah,
I mean you don't really need to, but I just like tracking that
shit.

Speaker 3 (02:21:04):
I don't know for viewers okay, because I think
it's gotten in your head okaywell, no, well, no, I mean.

Speaker 2 (02:21:10):
Did you hear Rob?
He got it to work.

Speaker 1 (02:21:12):
Yeah, oh, okay, so we are live.
It only took 24 minutes to getit to work.
Are we live?

Speaker 3 (02:21:17):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (02:21:19):
So we should talk about airplane stuff then yeah.
Yeah, not VO2 max, oh yeah.
Yeah, we're just shooting for a7.30 start.
We just kind of wanted to starta little early just to make
sure it was going to work, whichwe're glad we did.

Speaker 3 (02:21:37):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (02:21:38):
So we're just doing a little pre-chat.

Speaker 2 (02:21:42):
There's only five viewers right now, so we'll let
some, I'm waiting for mine tocatch up.

Speaker 1 (02:21:46):
Roll in here, shoot us a question in the live chat.
If you're one of the five, didyou really send your mom over
here, bob?
Yeah, she's going to drop offsome beer for you.
God damn it.
It's going to be great.
What kind of beer.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:22:02):
What kind does it take, Elvis juice?
Get the dude some Elvis juice.

Speaker 1 (02:22:07):
No actually I stopped drinking IPA.

Speaker 2 (02:22:09):
Oh, it's too heavy.

Speaker 3 (02:22:10):
Too heavy.

Speaker 2 (02:22:10):
No, actually I stopped drinking IPA.
Oh, it's too heavy.
Too heavy, Is it too unhealthyfor you?
Extra cancer.
You get extra cancer with.

Speaker 1 (02:22:15):
IPA, it is extra cancer juice.
How is IPA extra cancerinducing Higher alcohol content,
right, yeah, for whateverreason it like.
Oh God, the cut water.
Mai Tais I drink all summerprobably aren't good.
Probably not, probably not12.5% the cut water mai tais I
drink all summer probably aren'tgood, probably not, probably
not 12 and a half percent.

Speaker 2 (02:22:33):
Yeah, probably not uh think of all the wine humanity
has consumed over thegenerations.

Speaker 1 (02:22:38):
Yeah, uh, wine is.
Is might be a little bit betterfor you, unless you just got a
lot more alcohol got morealcohol.
Well, it depends on how drunkyou get off of it like ipas are
bad, ipas are bad, particularlyfor me, because when I drink
them I get wasted.
So if I don't get wasted, thenit's not any worse than any
other kind of alcohol, right,okay, so basically, I mean if,

(02:23:02):
if you drink.
If you drink one long islandiced tea versus 18 beers, like
the beers are lower alcoholcontent but it's healthier to
drink the one really strongdrink than it is to drink 18
weaker drinks.
You can't break into yourwedding vodka tonight.

(02:23:24):
No, there's not very much ofthat left.
Actually, I broke into that somany times when we were
recording the first time around,like there's not really a lot
left is it live?

Speaker 2 (02:23:40):
my mine's not showing live on rumble uh, it cut out
for a second.
I think it's back okay, I seein the Nothing in the chat or
anything.
I think it's a delay.

Speaker 1 (02:23:57):
Severe delay More than normal.

Speaker 3 (02:23:59):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:24:01):
But three minutes we'll start.

Speaker 2 (02:24:06):
We'll record an episode.
I don't even know why I'mwatching.
This is not working.
I don't even know why I'mwatching.
This is not working.
Do we have any other topicsthat we're going to discuss, or
just mostly put everything?

Speaker 1 (02:24:20):
into this.
I was going to do yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:24:21):
Obviously it's going to go 61.129, but it's fairly
quick.

Speaker 1 (02:24:25):
Okay, I had some questions about, like, what to
look for if you're likeborrowing people's aircraft.

Speaker 3 (02:24:37):
Okay, yeah, that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (02:24:44):
We'll get into that afterwards, which will probably
lead into it.
It'll lead into it.
That little lead into that.
Guys, get real quiet once we'relive.
Although it wasn't aviationrelated.

Speaker 2 (02:25:06):
I thought I was doing something pertinent to our
operation here, 2.8%, uh oh.
Feedback.

Speaker 1 (02:25:14):
I fixed it, okay, yeah, so what are we going to
talk about?
I don't know.
Planes and stuff.

Speaker 2 (02:25:26):
That's the plan.

Speaker 1 (02:25:29):
My flight review Until.

Speaker 2 (02:25:30):
Rob's not going to.
I wanted to do Actually I wasgonna see if you could tomorrow,
but my mom can't come watch thekids tomorrow, so I can't.

Speaker 3 (02:25:38):
Whatever?

Speaker 2 (02:25:39):
I was gonna announce it live on the air.

Speaker 3 (02:25:41):
Oh wow, that would have been exciting, I know
breaking news.

Speaker 2 (02:25:45):
But I tried to get it all teed up, but it didn't work
out.

Speaker 3 (02:25:49):
Didn't work out so it's gonna be after Memorial.

Speaker 2 (02:25:53):
Day.

Speaker 1 (02:25:55):
Jim wants to clean the plugs on it because he flew
it the other day.
He said it was running a littlebit rough.
He said it's fine to fly.
But you know I figured well wecan just wait.

Speaker 3 (02:26:10):
I don't know what your thoughts are on that.

Speaker 1 (02:26:11):
I've been in flying for a while.
While I don't like the idea ofrunning rough, yeah me neither.
Yeah, that kind of freaks meout of it.

Speaker 2 (02:26:20):
Yeah I go, I want it to run smooth well, it just
depends on is it running roughall the time, or running rough
when he does a mag check, orrunning rough when well, what I
didn't really ask and he didn'treally specify well, well, I'm
just saying that's a generalstatement, because I mean like
if I don't go fly for a while,like remember anything?

Speaker 1 (02:26:38):
piston runs rough as shit to me right flying a jet
all the time they just it's sodifferent yeah, you know, yeah,
you probably think this.
You probably think it's fallingapart exactly all the time, so
a little bit extra rough.
It's falling apart Exactly Allthe time, so a little bit extra
rough, it's like whatever.

Speaker 2 (02:26:53):
I can't tell the difference Unless it's a mag
check.
But how much does he fly thatLike per year, would you say?

Speaker 1 (02:27:03):
I don't know, not very much really, maybe like 5,
10 hours.

Speaker 2 (02:27:07):
The majority of it is him.

Speaker 1 (02:27:09):
Yeah, the majority of it's him.

Speaker 2 (02:27:11):
So 5,10 hours.
And what's he do?
Does he just do takeoffs andlandings?
Yeah, he flies around.

Speaker 1 (02:27:16):
He'll fly over to Port Clinton and get breakfast
and stuff.

Speaker 3 (02:27:20):
I don't know that stuff's tough.

Speaker 1 (02:27:23):
Aviation Mike howdy, Good to see you in here.
Aviation.

Speaker 3 (02:27:28):
Mike.

Speaker 1 (02:27:29):
I guess it's 7.30.
We can just roll into it here.

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#142 | Beyond the Private: What It Takes to Get A Commercial | FAR 61.129

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#142 | Beyond the Private: What It Takes to Get A Commercial | FAR 61.129