July 5, 2023 • 31 mins
Get ready to embark on a fascinating flight through the world of aviation as your co-pilots on this exhilarating journey! Ever wondered about the intricate world of aviation radio communication? We'll illuminate the landscape for you, making sense of everything from entry requirements and two-way radio communications, to MODE C requirements for class Bravo and class Charlie airports. And because we know how intriguing the world of tail numbers is, we'll dive headfirst into that realm, even contemplating roping in a tail number vendor to give us an insider's point of view. For a touch of star-power, we'll also chat about Harrison Ford's DeHavilland Beaver and its legendary call sign.
Grit your teeth, as we're about to take a swift turn into the technical aspects of flying. We'll discuss the crucial role of flap settings, how they impact aircraft performance, and why they are a cornerstone of aerial safety. We'll also uncover the mystery behind the aircraft's center of gravity and its profound influence on stability and maneuverability. The conversation doesn't stop there – we'll also touch on landing techniques, energy management, and aircraft type differences. As our journey concludes, we'll tackle the subject of a reauthorization bill that could open the floodgates to limited commercialization of N numbers. Strap in, listeners, we're ready for takeoff!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
This Internet's free.
I'm not paying for this at all.
Nothing's free.
Okay, nothing's free.
You're paying for it somewhere,but yeah, okay, bye Scott, we
gotta go.
We gotta get some moreimportant stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Alright, what's going on in the chat?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Okay, I just got one about Scott.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Everybody's wondering about Scott.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
How do?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
you feel about the class Charlie over this class
Bravo in the clearanceconversation.
You can't help on that?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yeah, I didn't know that I've never flown into a
class Bravo, so that was news tome.
I had no idea, but you haveflown into a class Charlie or
flown out of.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So we're more about the out of which is where
everybody is so in tune fromtheir instructor with coming
into a class Bravo, coming intoa class Charlie, what do you
need to hear?
What are the requirements?
You know two way radio and howdoes that go, and all that stuff
.
So if you think of theparallels for that on the ground
, you need to hear cleared inthe class Bravo, in a class
(01:08):
Bravo.
So you need to contactclearance to get out of a class
Bravo.
You basically need to hear allthe same stuff in reverse right.
And then in the class Charlie,we don't need to hear cleared
into the class Charlie, you needto hear your call sign, even if
they say stand by, it's like anexpress, like understanding
(01:30):
that you can still proceed intothe class Charlie Right.
So now the parallels to that onthe ground is that you don't
need to contact clearance, youdon't need to get clearance into
the Charlie to take off from aclass Charlie.
That is the way I have alwayswhatever conveyed that concept.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Ian said the entry requirements are still the same.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Ian just said, the entry requirements are still the
same.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Meaning the MoZi and the two way radio communication.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
I don't know.
I just read you the entirething.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Okay.
Do you need to hear cleared inthe class, charlie?
I'm pretty sure you don't.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
I think it's only for class Bravo.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I'm pretty sure you don't, only for the class Bravo,
so I assume that's not whathe's talking about.
Okay, so let's see.
I think he means the two wayradio and the MoZi is my
thinking.
That's what I would assume, AndI agree with him.
So in the class Delta the onlything you need is the two way
radio communication or to enter.
(02:32):
what you need to hear is justyour call sign again.
Just like the class.
Charlie So Bravo is the only islike the outlier.
So that is where the moststringent and strict
requirements are.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
He says meaning I agree with Lee.
So it's just a mute point.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Oh, okay, yeah, okay, good.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
What else.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
What else can we talk about?
What else did we screw upduring the actual lesson?
Speaker 1 (03:00):
It's kind of cooling down.
We only got like 20 watchingright now, which is still
amazing.
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I think I saw like 44 or 47 or something.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
It's just down a little bit from the peak.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
What I mean?
does anybody want to talk aboutanything else?
Anything else.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah, that was all of my effort.
I can't think of anything otherthan I was hoping the chat I
was talking about.
Yeah, i'm watching, i'm keepingan eye on it.
Kind of just blabbing to filltime as I look at the chat.
I was just have you everflipped tail numbers and stuff?
What do you mean?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
No, I haven't done anything.
I don't know anything aboutwhat you're talking about.
Okay, yeah it just makes sense,though, because we deal when we
buy new airplanes and thingslike that.
I mean it can sometimes be.
It's an interesting process.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
You have.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
N numbers on an airplane that you bought.
But they want the N number backAnd it's just a thing.
They want their N number.
That's on the airplane, so theygo buy you a N number to put on
it after you buy it.
It's just crazy.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
They want to sell the plane, but they want to keep
the tail number.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yes, very common.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I've been learning about this this week.
I never gave much thought to itUntil.
I was just like you know what,I should look into this so we
have something to do on theepisode.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, you did.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
I went down this rabbit hole of aftermarket tail
numbers, markets and stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
You just need to come up with some valuable ones that
somebody wants to buy from youone day.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah, well, I've seen the websites where people sell
them.
It seems like a lot of peoplebought all the ones that are
worth wanting.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
And they probably charge more for it.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
I don't know.
I said I'm at a price on thatthree digit number that I'd like
to have, just out of curiositySee what they come back with.
Putting some feelers out, someemails.
Maybe get one of these guys onthe show.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, give us the scoop.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Because they had some single digit number with two
letters Tail number is on there.
All the billionaires put ontheir helicopters And I'm just
curious what those go for.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
What I think is interesting is I believe
Harrison Ford's DeHavillandBeaver is November 2, 8 Sierra
And our Saratoga is 4, 2, 8Sierra.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Oh yeah, that's kind of cool.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah, i mean it is cool.
I mean it's super cool.
It's DeHavilland Beaver andbasically has a call sign.
That I've been saying for orhad been saying for years Yeah,
interesting, yeah.
Yeah, i mean there's so muchlike crazy like micro things
about call signs and radioetiquette, but it's like The the
(06:02):
main.
The reason you're making aradio call is to let other
people know what you're doing.
So if you want to omit leftdownwind Even though it should
be or could be assumed, it'sjust.
Why not just?
say left downwind in my and Iknow that you're on the other
side of that, so I'm not sayinglike you're doing it wrong, but
it's like that's my perspectiveon it.
(06:23):
You know, it's nothing more forme to just say left downwind or
left base, that's just my thing.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I feel like, though, if you're, if you're flying
Stuff like Scott flies, you dosound more love a dweeb saying
that.
Then if you're flying somethinglike a leer or something more
serious, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
But that's just.
Yeah, that's all in your head,though You can also sound like
the most professional 150 pilotthere is if you do all the other
stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah you the part if you don't make a radio call
you're flying a 150 at your owngrass strip in a field You fit
the part 172, or even like asuper cub or something I'd be
like That's a lot.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Was it gonna go over the top?
this guy ever Supercut over theday job and he's flying aside
here.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I'm gonna be the full call sign, full aircraft type
every time when I have a supercub.
I say super cub every time,every time sick.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Well, yeah, just to say super cub over the radio
make everybody jealous.
I looked up one eight PapaAlpha November.
One eight Papa Alpha.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Okay, not available.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I imagine that that'd be cool.
Yeah, super cub though.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, why not?
why not eight one Alpha Papa?
They just that'd be transposedcompletely.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, i don't think a lot of people get it, though.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
That's a reach I know I almost couldn't even say it
to reach, yeah, those things,although, like I get it, that's
not what I want.
Like I want meaningful thingsto me.
Like you know, i would do stufflike with my kids names and
stuff like that, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Okay, you pull rumble chat up on your computer.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Lay, i don't think we sounds like a lot of work Okay
pull another tab up.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
You got 13 inches of real estate on there, don't you?
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Mmm, I think I have to 11 dude.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Oh, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, i Can't look at my password, because What could
it be?
So we got end of theregistration code shown on your
device.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Ydge words, one we can talk about how to flare
properly.
Okay and Ian says when therunway begins to expand rapidly,
it isn't bad advice, but as hestates in the next thing, which
really means nothing, Like once.
Once you have enough landingson your belt to know What that
(09:10):
saying means, you're beyond,probably needing that saying and
that's all.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
That's also true.
Yeah, the various studentobservation when I was deep, rob
, that's deep, let's all writethat down like I see it and I
understand what he's saying, butif you're trying to explain to
somebody learning how to land,it'd be worthless.
So he how to flare landproperly or flare properly.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
What do you say Then?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
you follow your when do you pull power?
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Okay, on the plane.
Okay go on.
Probably different than askyhawk.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
That is true, but go on, and maybe not by much, but
go on, okay.
Well, i wish Jeff Danovich werehere to have this conversation.
See to he.
I know he would instantly bringup.
Well, the only time you do, 180power-offs well.
This is what he would sayamon's in the chat.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Still you, you talk.
Well, that's true.
I haven't seen him in a littlebit entry level though.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
I mean so he.
But Yeah, it would beinteresting.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Amen, if you're still in the chat, chime in if you
remember Lee talking about that.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
But so what is your perspective on that, though, rob
?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
um, pull power And it depends on what I'm flying.
When I was doing the arrow inmy commercial.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Like I'd leave a little power in until the wheels
were on the ground.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Like so I would say a hundred percent, do not ever do
that now.
Absolutely not, because in therest of your flying career you
will bus check rides and Youwill not pass upgrade training.
If you're at an airline allkinds of stuff you absolutely
never, ever, ever Land with theengine producing more than idle
(11:01):
power.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Okay well maybe that was just that wasn't only
example, i thought because ofthe handful and that's fine.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I'm not saying you're wrong.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Oh, that was the only one that is no judgment on you
at all.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
The only, only only time you would ever do, it is if
you're doing a glassy waterlanding.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Okay, yeah, that's a seaplane.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
That is the only time and that is obvious because
that is part of the.
That is As far as I know.
I don't have that much seaplanetime.
You and I probably have similaramounts of seaplane time.
Yeah um, so I Mean there may bean airplane where you do
something different, but glassywatering.
The technique is pretty, iwould imagine, pretty universal.
(11:41):
Yeah, you set up an ultra-high,stabilized approach at a low
descent rate with a lot of power, and when you touch The water
then you bring power idle.
Yeah there may be somethingdifferent somewhere, i don't
know.
Don't judge me if there is, butthat is kind of the technique
That is the only time that Iknow of.
And maybe in rotorcraft,obviously you got power and all
(12:03):
kinds of stuff.
But in an airplane I don't knowof anything.
That is terrible techniqueunless there is something
specific.
But I will tell you for a factin a 172, in a Cherokee, do not
land any type of Cherokee, donot land with power on at all.
Idle power, idle thrust only.
(12:24):
The reason for that is, if youstart that technique, then
Primacy, the law of primacy.
You tend to always retain thosethings longer and they're
harder to beat out of you If youhave them, if you're adopting
them early on in your career,early on in your learning.
The weight on wheels logic in alot of aircraft.
(12:49):
Well, in aircraft with weight onwheels logic, where there's
sensors, there's wheel speedtransducers that sense wheel
speed on all the differentwheels and then spoilers pop and
thrusters can arm and all thesethings happen.
Those all depend on the thrustlever being at idle.
That is the first thing thatyou need to do to satisfy, other
(13:12):
than letting the airplane hitthe ground with the wheels.
That should happen on everylanding anyways, but other than
that, you need to have thethrusters at idle when those
wheels, or none of those otherthings, while any skid braking
spoilers, thruster versus all ofthose things won't work unless
you have those thrusters at idle.
And I know during upgrade atthe airline that I was one of
(13:35):
the airlines I was at when Iupgraded to captain that was one
of the things they werespecifically looking for is
people landing with power aboveidle.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah, that point the instructor told me that just
because it was a T tail and Iguess it was kept some air over
the rudder for stuff is why theysaid that.
But every other airplane hadflown.
Yeah, not landing.
Keep more air speed.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
That means you're coming in too slow.
I mean.
I've never flown a T tail arrowokay, but most of the things
I've flown at this point are allT tail like I get it Most of
the planes.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
yeah, I'm chopping the power early on, final to
nothing.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I think that's a bad excuse if it's loaded within CG
and you're flying the correctapproach air speed.
I can't imagine that was in themanual.
To land with power on, i guess,is where I would go to.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Never looked at the manual.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Well, yeah, there you have it I don't believe I ever
flow that solo.
I mean, if it was in the manual, then do that, but if I doubt
it was, Yeah, most airplanes.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I'm just to get back to the question I'm getting on
final and as soon as, if it's inan airplane I'm familiar with,
as soon as I know I have therunway made, i chop the power.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
So like, let's say, and we kind of go around and
around about this, but like,let's say, you're on final,
based the final in that kind ofarea, right, and we can come up
with some attitudes if we needto fine tune the scenario.
But are you gonna be fullyconfigured before you decide the
chop to power?
or how do you balance out thatdrag and thrust profile when
(15:27):
you're coming in to land?
Is there a way you could maybesay something?
or if you were in the role ofan instructor, how would you be
teaching, coaching somebody tokind of get their mind right
about it?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
The 150, and I do this with 172s, 10 degrees on
downwind.
It's kind of a default becauseyou should be slow enough to
start adding flap in on yourdownwind anyway.
I typically put the next notchin on base and then when I'm
making that turn to final, I'mjust playing it by sight picture
(16:00):
of what I'm gonna do Ifanything on final.
you see, if there's wind, weirdwinds and stuff sometimes I'll
just keep it at 20.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
And land at 20?
.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, if I'm trying to think of putting me on the
spot here.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
If That's all you guys do to me, so enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, I'm trying to think of it as a crosswinds Like
.
if there was like a bunch ofcrosswinds, it was gusty and
stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, wind and gusty, yeah, I would just come in with
a extra speed.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I wouldn't put in as much flap.
I don't want thatcontrollability.
I don't want the airplane to benot as much flap in it.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Okay, yeah, i mean that would be all the guidance
that I've ever known, land withminimal flap, setting obviously
up to a point.
But yeah, typically what youtend to do with flaps is
obviously it lowers your stallspeed and most manufacturers
give you a graph as to like howthat stall speed is affected
(17:02):
with flap changes.
But one thing a lot of peopledon't really realize is with an
aircraft that's What do I wantto say, i guess like pretty
neutral, balanced.
You know, your center ofgravity is pretty balanced.
You're in the middle of the, ofthe what do I want to say?
(17:27):
Middle of the center of gravityenvelope, the weight and
balance envelope, right, soforward to aft.
When you put those flaps down,what you end up doing is you end
up moving.
Well, i believe I'm sure StuartButz or somebody's going to
correct me on this, but or TylerJared, probably anybody can
correct me on this but I'mpretty sure you're moving the
(17:49):
center of gravity or the centerof lift, center of pressure, aft
.
So you have the center ofgravity and the center of lift
always kind of opposing eachother, and what that ends up
happening is you end upbasically balancing the airplane
better with those flaps andit's a stabilizing force So it
(18:11):
does make the airplane craftmore stable having flaps down.
So that is a benefit as well asreducing the stall speed.
So you have two things kind ofgoing in your quarter.
If you're always like flying,like so low, and it mild weights
, a mild density altitude,you're not going to notice the
difference ever.
But if you're like worst casescenario, you're slow, you're
heavy, high density altitude,you're going to sort of feel
(18:33):
those effects of that stability.
They're going to kind of themagnitude is going to, you know,
increase.
You're going to tell thedifference.
But other than that, likeyou're talking about the windy,
gusty day, minimal flap settingis going to help.
Just remember that your stallspeed, your stall margin, is
reduced.
And like you said you said itabsolutely right You're going to
(18:53):
increase your approach speedsand your maneuvering speeds.
You always want to be about 10knots.
You know buffer with yourmaneuvering at less than full
flap.
So those are all good likemetrics to kind of commit to
memory as you kind of do.
Maybe more visual, you knowwrapping around in the pattern
If you're trying to do a shortapproach, like you know this
(19:14):
quarter mile final and you knowall these things which are fun
and sporty and help everybodyout in the pattern.
But just remember yourmaneuvering margins.
You know you bank that airplaneup.
You know your load factor goesup, which means your stall speed
goes up and all these thingsthey just compound.
And then now your partial flap.
So you know you're vastlydifferent.
(19:37):
Your total angle of attack, yourcritical angle of attack, is
vastly different.
You can't even picture it inyour head anymore.
Even if you're an engineer, youcan probably barely picture
what has happened to yourcritical angle of attack, the
angle of attack the airplanestalls at when you're cranking
it around.
You got a high bank angle,partial flap.
(19:59):
I mean just you have everythingworking against you.
Your stall speed is 40 or 50%higher than what you're used to
Like.
I'm not joking.
I think if you're at a 60degree bank somebody could fact
check this, but I'm pretty surethis accurate If you're in a 60
(20:21):
degree bank turn your stallspeed is 40% higher than at,
because at 60 degree bank you'reat 2Gs.
So at 2Gs your stall speed is40% higher.
I'm pretty sure that's accurate.
Somebody could fact check it.
Somebody probably knows themath on it, but it's just
something to consider whenyou're a hot dog and you're
wrapping it around, doing theseshort approaches which, don't
(20:43):
get me wrong, are helpful andmaybe can be courteous to other
pilots in the pattern.
Things like that, don't get mewrong, can be fun, can be safe
and can help everybody else out.
Don't get me wrong, that's allgreat.
Just be mindful.
You do those things and then,oh, you overshot and you kick
that rudder in to straighten itout, or so you think, and your
(21:06):
stall speeds way elevatedbecause your partial flap,
you're in a highly banked turnand then you kick that rudder in
and you're like at 300 feet.
You're never going to recover,that You know, if you go into a
spin, and those are all theelements that people eat it up
on.
So just be mindful of all thatstuff, i guess.
(21:27):
But, yeah, on a gusty day,partial flap because it's less
lift, Your wing loading is alittle bit higher and whatever,
but probably what you got.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Let's read the chat here.
Jared Johnson has fullyembraced the new call sign.
It says new handshake departure.
Good morning, one whiskey.
Whiskey, runway, heading 2000,.
Climbing 3500.
Maintain PFR, clear of Bravo.
Makes me sad when I get this.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
And Ian says 91.123, always wins.
What is that?
Speaker 1 (22:02):
I don't know what that is.
I don't know what that is.
Jared Johnson's saying approachone whiskey whiskey request, go
ahead.
One whiskey whiskey, onewhiskey whiskey request, pop IFR
clearance to whatever.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Those are all sound radio calls that sound like to
me.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, he's just practicing.
I don't know the exact scenario, i just like that he's using
the new call sign.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Yeah, yeah, he's more in tune with than we are at
this point, one whiskey whiskey,yeah One.
Whiskey whiskey, yeah Yeah Onewhiskey, whiskey two.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Whiskey, whiskey three.
It's like a country song.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, right, yeah.
The original question was whatproper landing technique?
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yeah, When the flare that was way up there.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Energy management.
Well, i can't see the chat atall, so if there's something
else but energy I guess I needto talk less.
But energy management, andthat's just a scale that comes
with time.
You know we're typically in,you know, in the like the CRJ,
like the 700 900, a little bitheavier and a little bit of a
(23:20):
different way.
We came in at about one degreenose up, one degree nose up to
about level of the horizon Andthat would give us a three
degree glide path And so inthere and they're a little bit
heavier, with a different wayand stuff like that.
But when you heard about 30 onthe on the radar out to the call
outs, you dropped the power andland.
Crj 200, you know, was abouttwo and a half degrees nose down
(23:43):
.
Embryer 145, that was prettylevel I guess.
But about at about 50 feet youheard that auto call out
Drostlars, the idle, learjet.
We do the same thing.
We're pretty level on thehorizon with the pitch attitude.
That'll give us about a threedegree glide path following an
ILS or whatever or the PappiesVassys.
That'll give us a three degreeglide path In about 50 feet.
(24:08):
You can chop it.
I typically wait till it's allabout 30.
I like to take that energy intothe flare.
And then, because my techniqueis a little bit different, you
know, and I've talked about thisbefore a lot of people look way
down the runway.
I don't do that so much.
I do it sometimes, but mosttime I'm pretty close in, i'm
not looking way far down, like alot of people are taught, and I
(24:32):
do do pretty good landing.
So like I can't say anybody'swrong, but I know it works for
me.
So I tend to look in prettyclose And that's just the way
I've always done it.
So I'm not I'm not sayingthat's right, i'm just saying
that's the way I do it And maybeI would be better and more
consistent if I did look furtherdown.
I don't know.
So at about 30 feet, when itcalls out automatically I'll,
(24:53):
then I'll chop it idle.
But energy management is a hugething in.
It just takes time in the seatto figure that out.
In the airplane you're flying,you know I've talked, i think,
last year, when I was gettingback into GA after years of not
flying GA.
It took me hours, probably fivehours, of just nonstop takeoffs
(25:14):
and landings, which maybe Iprobably did.
I don't know 2030, 2030landings that way to get back
comfortable, just because myenergy management what do I want
to say?
like my energy managementperception was accustomed to the
(25:36):
leer in my site picture, ofcourse, was adjusted to the leer
and jets and stuff and not theCherokee that I'm flying to the,
to the, you know, to the lakehouse.
So it's like you got to relearnand you got to fly what you're
flying when you're flying it AndI like big picture stuff, but
when it comes down to brasstacks, eventually you've got to
(25:57):
be like okay, i'm gonna land onthis thing, not that thing.
You know I got to land thisairplane not what I fly for a
living, and they're vastlydifferent.
I was coming very, very flat.
I was, you know, a couple oftimes I came in, basically nose
gear first was the first thingto touch, but I mean like right
now I split second, so very,very flat, and then it then, as
(26:21):
I honed it in, understood thedifference in the site picture
again just got reacclimated.
You know it would be like themains first, still the same you
know type thing, but it would bemains first, then the nose gear
, and then I just kept dialingin back and back and back till
it was I'm getting back in morethan that full stall.
And there's a reason.
(26:42):
Instructors teach that, whichis just tough when I'm like,
okay, i can do good landings inmy airplane.
They're playing a fly for aliving.
Now I need to get back in tunewith this and it is just
different.
So, but there's a reason.
So yeah, do all that.
But energy management is thebig one, i think.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Lear jets vastly different than a Cherokee.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, and I tend to land flat.
I tend to land very, very flatAnd that's just my technique.
And maybe that's my techniquebecause of me looking in close
versus way down the runway, idon't know.
But I tend to get pretty goodlandings without any other
negative side effects.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
So yeah, ian says the reauthorization bill from the
house with limitedcommercialization of N numbers
should free up a bunch.
It's interesting Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
There's a lot of stuff in that bill, isn't there?
I don't know all the things init, but I just saw that the
house, i think, is passed atleast bringing the bill to the
floor for raising the mandatoryretirement age for airline pass
from 65 to 67.
Which I know Europe, i think,is mostly already done, if not
all of them, so it was only amatter of time here.
(27:54):
So that'll help some of theretirements at the airlines.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Then Aiman chimed in.
Believe it or not?
we asked, in lieu of Jeff notbeing here, being your former
student idol when you determined, the runways made Yes, That's
what I said yeah, and I thinkthere is a time and place.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
But in a private pilot, i all, what did I just
say?
like five times energymanagement, oh yeah, nothing
gets you more in tune withenergy management than basically
power off 180s.
That's all that is about.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But also knowing the airplane,because that you're doing power
off 180s on a commercial in theCFI And what are you trying to
show?
You're trying to show mastery,you're trying to show that you
(28:38):
understand this drag profile andspacing, timing, all these
elements and you're trying tomash them together and make it
work.
And I try to just instill thatunderstanding because I have
seen so many people just do thisthree degree glide path in
their singling and zero singlingand moony, and it's like dude,
(28:59):
if that engine fails on you.
One, you have no idea howquickly that airplane is going
to drop like a freaking rock.
No clue, that's one And two,even if you do, even if you are
good at at understanding howquickly it will drop, is
understanding and knowing thatit's going to drop like a rock
(29:20):
doesn't do any good If you're ina position where, if it, if the
engine fails, you're stillgoing to crash, you're going to
lay, in short, of the runway.
I understand flying an ILS tominimums in.
You know it's a low overcastceiling.
Those are things you areaccepting And that is the
likelihood of what isoutweighing what you know the
(29:40):
benefit of shooting this ILS tominimums in a single engine
airplane, or the fact that ifthe engine fails while I shoot
this ILS, i'm going to come outthe bottom and land in a farm
field or on top of the building.
You got to weigh all thosethings and I get all of that too
.
But to make it your everydaySOP to just fly this three
(30:02):
degree glide path in your singleengine airplane, i think is
doing you a disservice.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Yeah.
In my opinion, Yeah, all right,we're coming up on two and a
half hours, so we got to shutthis operation down.
Thank you, everybody in thelive chat.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
We'll probably do two or three more of these where
we're all remote again before Iget up to Ohio towards the end
of July and hopefully we cancontinue on continuing on.
Lee has talked about doingpossibly up to like five
episodes a year.
We got a few in the books oflike Lee Griffin one-on-ones.
(30:43):
I think he gets frustrated,scott and I, on some of the
guests we've had, of usderailing the conversation and
not getting as good a stuff.
So we may be adding that to theshow which, if we could get
five a season, that would saveme a trip up to Ohio each year,
which would be a goodproposition.
(31:05):
I think it'd be interesting tooto see Lee be able to, as he
puts it, extract informationwithout having to deal with
Scott and I out of some gueststhat have some knowledge.
But we'll see how that goes.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Look forward to that.
Stay tuned, stay tuned for that.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
You got your microphone back now.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
It was at the recording location.
It's back at your house now.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Yeah, thanks for hanging out in the chat with us.
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Take care everybody.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
All right, see you guys.
Bye.
This Internet's free.
I'm not paying for this at all.
Nothing's free.
Okay, nothing's free.
You're paying for it somewhere,but yeah, okay, bye Scott, we
gotta go.
We gotta get some moreimportant stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Alright, what's going on in the chat?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Okay, I just got one about Scott.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Everybody's wondering about Scott.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
How do?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
you feel about the class Charlie over this class
Bravo in the clearanceconversation.
You can't help on that?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yeah, I didn't know that I've never flown into a
class Bravo, so that was news tome.
I had no idea, but you haveflown into a class Charlie or
flown out of.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So we're more about the out of which is where
everybody is so in tune fromtheir instructor with coming
into a class Bravo, coming intoa class Charlie, what do you
need to hear?
What are the requirements?
You know two way radio and howdoes that go, and all that stuff
.
So if you think of theparallels for that on the ground
, you need to hear cleared inthe class Bravo, in a class
(01:08):
Bravo.
So you need to contactclearance to get out of a class
Bravo.
You basically need to hear allthe same stuff in reverse right.
And then in the class Charlie,we don't need to hear cleared
into the class Charlie, you needto hear your call sign, even if
they say stand by, it's like anexpress, like understanding
(01:30):
that you can still proceed intothe class Charlie Right.
So now the parallels to that onthe ground is that you don't
need to contact clearance, youdon't need to get clearance into
the Charlie to take off from aclass Charlie.
That is the way I have alwayswhatever conveyed that concept.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Ian said the entry requirements are still the same.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Ian just said, the entry requirements are still the
same.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Meaning the MoZi and the two way radio communication.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
I don't know.
I just read you the entirething.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Okay.
Do you need to hear cleared inthe class, charlie?
I'm pretty sure you don't.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
I think it's only for class Bravo.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I'm pretty sure you don't, only for the class Bravo,
so I assume that's not whathe's talking about.
Okay, so let's see.
I think he means the two wayradio and the MoZi is my
thinking.
That's what I would assume, AndI agree with him.
So in the class Delta the onlything you need is the two way
radio communication or to enter.
(02:32):
what you need to hear is justyour call sign again.
Just like the class.
Charlie So Bravo is the only islike the outlier.
So that is where the moststringent and strict
requirements are.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
He says meaning I agree with Lee.
So it's just a mute point.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Oh, okay, yeah, okay, good.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
What else.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
What else can we talk about?
What else did we screw upduring the actual lesson?
Speaker 1 (03:00):
It's kind of cooling down.
We only got like 20 watchingright now, which is still
amazing.
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I think I saw like 44 or 47 or something.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
It's just down a little bit from the peak.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
What I mean?
does anybody want to talk aboutanything else?
Anything else.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah, that was all of my effort.
I can't think of anything otherthan I was hoping the chat I
was talking about.
Yeah, i'm watching, i'm keepingan eye on it.
Kind of just blabbing to filltime as I look at the chat.
I was just have you everflipped tail numbers and stuff?
What do you mean?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
No, I haven't done anything.
I don't know anything aboutwhat you're talking about.
Okay, yeah it just makes sense,though, because we deal when we
buy new airplanes and thingslike that.
I mean it can sometimes be.
It's an interesting process.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
You have.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
N numbers on an airplane that you bought.
But they want the N number backAnd it's just a thing.
They want their N number.
That's on the airplane, so theygo buy you a N number to put on
it after you buy it.
It's just crazy.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
They want to sell the plane, but they want to keep
the tail number.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yes, very common.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I've been learning about this this week.
I never gave much thought to itUntil.
I was just like you know what,I should look into this so we
have something to do on theepisode.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, you did.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
I went down this rabbit hole of aftermarket tail
numbers, markets and stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
You just need to come up with some valuable ones that
somebody wants to buy from youone day.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah, well, I've seen the websites where people sell
them.
It seems like a lot of peoplebought all the ones that are
worth wanting.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
And they probably charge more for it.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
I don't know.
I said I'm at a price on thatthree digit number that I'd like
to have, just out of curiositySee what they come back with.
Putting some feelers out, someemails.
Maybe get one of these guys onthe show.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, give us the scoop.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Because they had some single digit number with two
letters Tail number is on there.
All the billionaires put ontheir helicopters And I'm just
curious what those go for.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
What I think is interesting is I believe
Harrison Ford's DeHavillandBeaver is November 2, 8 Sierra
And our Saratoga is 4, 2, 8Sierra.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Oh yeah, that's kind of cool.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah, i mean it is cool.
I mean it's super cool.
It's DeHavilland Beaver andbasically has a call sign.
That I've been saying for orhad been saying for years Yeah,
interesting, yeah.
Yeah, i mean there's so muchlike crazy like micro things
about call signs and radioetiquette, but it's like The the
(06:02):
main.
The reason you're making aradio call is to let other
people know what you're doing.
So if you want to omit leftdownwind Even though it should
be or could be assumed, it'sjust.
Why not just?
say left downwind in my and Iknow that you're on the other
side of that, so I'm not sayinglike you're doing it wrong, but
it's like that's my perspectiveon it.
(06:23):
You know, it's nothing more forme to just say left downwind or
left base, that's just my thing.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I feel like, though, if you're, if you're flying
Stuff like Scott flies, you dosound more love a dweeb saying
that.
Then if you're flying somethinglike a leer or something more
serious, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
But that's just.
Yeah, that's all in your head,though You can also sound like
the most professional 150 pilotthere is if you do all the other
stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah you the part if you don't make a radio call
you're flying a 150 at your owngrass strip in a field You fit
the part 172, or even like asuper cub or something I'd be
like That's a lot.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Was it gonna go over the top?
this guy ever Supercut over theday job and he's flying aside
here.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I'm gonna be the full call sign, full aircraft type
every time when I have a supercub.
I say super cub every time,every time sick.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Well, yeah, just to say super cub over the radio
make everybody jealous.
I looked up one eight PapaAlpha November.
One eight Papa Alpha.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Okay, not available.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I imagine that that'd be cool.
Yeah, super cub though.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, why not?
why not eight one Alpha Papa?
They just that'd be transposedcompletely.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, i don't think a lot of people get it, though.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
That's a reach I know I almost couldn't even say it
to reach, yeah, those things,although, like I get it, that's
not what I want.
Like I want meaningful thingsto me.
Like you know, i would do stufflike with my kids names and
stuff like that, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Okay, you pull rumble chat up on your computer.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Lay, i don't think we sounds like a lot of work Okay
pull another tab up.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
You got 13 inches of real estate on there, don't you?
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Mmm, I think I have to 11 dude.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Oh, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, i Can't look at my password, because What could
it be?
So we got end of theregistration code shown on your
device.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Ydge words, one we can talk about how to flare
properly.
Okay and Ian says when therunway begins to expand rapidly,
it isn't bad advice, but as hestates in the next thing, which
really means nothing, Like once.
Once you have enough landingson your belt to know What that
(09:10):
saying means, you're beyond,probably needing that saying and
that's all.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
That's also true.
Yeah, the various studentobservation when I was deep, rob
, that's deep, let's all writethat down like I see it and I
understand what he's saying, butif you're trying to explain to
somebody learning how to land,it'd be worthless.
So he how to flare landproperly or flare properly.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
What do you say Then?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
you follow your when do you pull power?
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Okay, on the plane.
Okay go on.
Probably different than askyhawk.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
That is true, but go on, and maybe not by much, but
go on, okay.
Well, i wish Jeff Danovich werehere to have this conversation.
See to he.
I know he would instantly bringup.
Well, the only time you do, 180power-offs well.
This is what he would sayamon's in the chat.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Still you, you talk.
Well, that's true.
I haven't seen him in a littlebit entry level though.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
I mean so he.
But Yeah, it would beinteresting.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Amen, if you're still in the chat, chime in if you
remember Lee talking about that.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
But so what is your perspective on that, though, rob
?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
um, pull power And it depends on what I'm flying.
When I was doing the arrow inmy commercial.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Like I'd leave a little power in until the wheels
were on the ground.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Like so I would say a hundred percent, do not ever do
that now.
Absolutely not, because in therest of your flying career you
will bus check rides and Youwill not pass upgrade training.
If you're at an airline allkinds of stuff you absolutely
never, ever, ever Land with theengine producing more than idle
(11:01):
power.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Okay well maybe that was just that wasn't only
example, i thought because ofthe handful and that's fine.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I'm not saying you're wrong.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Oh, that was the only one that is no judgment on you
at all.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
The only, only only time you would ever do, it is if
you're doing a glassy waterlanding.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Okay, yeah, that's a seaplane.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
That is the only time and that is obvious because
that is part of the.
That is As far as I know.
I don't have that much seaplanetime.
You and I probably have similaramounts of seaplane time.
Yeah um, so I Mean there may bean airplane where you do
something different, but glassywatering.
The technique is pretty, iwould imagine, pretty universal.
(11:41):
Yeah, you set up an ultra-high,stabilized approach at a low
descent rate with a lot of power, and when you touch The water
then you bring power idle.
Yeah there may be somethingdifferent somewhere, i don't
know.
Don't judge me if there is, butthat is kind of the technique
That is the only time that Iknow of.
And maybe in rotorcraft,obviously you got power and all
(12:03):
kinds of stuff.
But in an airplane I don't knowof anything.
That is terrible techniqueunless there is something
specific.
But I will tell you for a factin a 172, in a Cherokee, do not
land any type of Cherokee, donot land with power on at all.
Idle power, idle thrust only.
(12:24):
The reason for that is, if youstart that technique, then
Primacy, the law of primacy.
You tend to always retain thosethings longer and they're
harder to beat out of you If youhave them, if you're adopting
them early on in your career,early on in your learning.
The weight on wheels logic in alot of aircraft.
(12:49):
Well, in aircraft with weight onwheels logic, where there's
sensors, there's wheel speedtransducers that sense wheel
speed on all the differentwheels and then spoilers pop and
thrusters can arm and all thesethings happen.
Those all depend on the thrustlever being at idle.
That is the first thing thatyou need to do to satisfy, other
(13:12):
than letting the airplane hitthe ground with the wheels.
That should happen on everylanding anyways, but other than
that, you need to have thethrusters at idle when those
wheels, or none of those otherthings, while any skid braking
spoilers, thruster versus all ofthose things won't work unless
you have those thrusters at idle.
And I know during upgrade atthe airline that I was one of
(13:35):
the airlines I was at when Iupgraded to captain that was one
of the things they werespecifically looking for is
people landing with power aboveidle.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah, that point the instructor told me that just
because it was a T tail and Iguess it was kept some air over
the rudder for stuff is why theysaid that.
But every other airplane hadflown.
Yeah, not landing.
Keep more air speed.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
That means you're coming in too slow.
I mean.
I've never flown a T tail arrowokay, but most of the things
I've flown at this point are allT tail like I get it Most of
the planes.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
yeah, I'm chopping the power early on, final to
nothing.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I think that's a bad excuse if it's loaded within CG
and you're flying the correctapproach air speed.
I can't imagine that was in themanual.
To land with power on, i guess,is where I would go to.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Never looked at the manual.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Well, yeah, there you have it I don't believe I ever
flow that solo.
I mean, if it was in the manual, then do that, but if I doubt
it was, Yeah, most airplanes.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I'm just to get back to the question I'm getting on
final and as soon as, if it's inan airplane I'm familiar with,
as soon as I know I have therunway made, i chop the power.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
So like, let's say, and we kind of go around and
around about this, but like,let's say, you're on final,
based the final in that kind ofarea, right, and we can come up
with some attitudes if we needto fine tune the scenario.
But are you gonna be fullyconfigured before you decide the
chop to power?
or how do you balance out thatdrag and thrust profile when
(15:27):
you're coming in to land?
Is there a way you could maybesay something?
or if you were in the role ofan instructor, how would you be
teaching, coaching somebody tokind of get their mind right
about it?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
The 150, and I do this with 172s, 10 degrees on
downwind.
It's kind of a default becauseyou should be slow enough to
start adding flap in on yourdownwind anyway.
I typically put the next notchin on base and then when I'm
making that turn to final, I'mjust playing it by sight picture
(16:00):
of what I'm gonna do Ifanything on final.
you see, if there's wind, weirdwinds and stuff sometimes I'll
just keep it at 20.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
And land at 20?
.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, if I'm trying to think of putting me on the
spot here.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
If That's all you guys do to me, so enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, I'm trying to think of it as a crosswinds Like
.
if there was like a bunch ofcrosswinds, it was gusty and
stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, wind and gusty, yeah, I would just come in with
a extra speed.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I wouldn't put in as much flap.
I don't want thatcontrollability.
I don't want the airplane to benot as much flap in it.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Okay, yeah, i mean that would be all the guidance
that I've ever known, land withminimal flap, setting obviously
up to a point.
But yeah, typically what youtend to do with flaps is
obviously it lowers your stallspeed and most manufacturers
give you a graph as to like howthat stall speed is affected
(17:02):
with flap changes.
But one thing a lot of peopledon't really realize is with an
aircraft that's What do I wantto say, i guess like pretty
neutral, balanced.
You know, your center ofgravity is pretty balanced.
You're in the middle of the, ofthe what do I want to say?
(17:27):
Middle of the center of gravityenvelope, the weight and
balance envelope, right, soforward to aft.
When you put those flaps down,what you end up doing is you end
up moving.
Well, i believe I'm sure StuartButz or somebody's going to
correct me on this, but or TylerJared, probably anybody can
correct me on this but I'mpretty sure you're moving the
(17:49):
center of gravity or the centerof lift, center of pressure, aft
.
So you have the center ofgravity and the center of lift
always kind of opposing eachother, and what that ends up
happening is you end upbasically balancing the airplane
better with those flaps andit's a stabilizing force So it
(18:11):
does make the airplane craftmore stable having flaps down.
So that is a benefit as well asreducing the stall speed.
So you have two things kind ofgoing in your quarter.
If you're always like flying,like so low, and it mild weights
, a mild density altitude,you're not going to notice the
difference ever.
But if you're like worst casescenario, you're slow, you're
heavy, high density altitude,you're going to sort of feel
(18:33):
those effects of that stability.
They're going to kind of themagnitude is going to, you know,
increase.
You're going to tell thedifference.
But other than that, likeyou're talking about the windy,
gusty day, minimal flap settingis going to help.
Just remember that your stallspeed, your stall margin, is
reduced.
And like you said you said itabsolutely right You're going to
(18:53):
increase your approach speedsand your maneuvering speeds.
You always want to be about 10knots.
You know buffer with yourmaneuvering at less than full
flap.
So those are all good likemetrics to kind of commit to
memory as you kind of do.
Maybe more visual, you knowwrapping around in the pattern
If you're trying to do a shortapproach, like you know this
(19:14):
quarter mile final and you knowall these things which are fun
and sporty and help everybodyout in the pattern.
But just remember yourmaneuvering margins.
You know you bank that airplaneup.
You know your load factor goesup, which means your stall speed
goes up and all these thingsthey just compound.
And then now your partial flap.
So you know you're vastlydifferent.
(19:37):
Your total angle of attack, yourcritical angle of attack, is
vastly different.
You can't even picture it inyour head anymore.
Even if you're an engineer, youcan probably barely picture
what has happened to yourcritical angle of attack, the
angle of attack the airplanestalls at when you're cranking
it around.
You got a high bank angle,partial flap.
(19:59):
I mean just you have everythingworking against you.
Your stall speed is 40 or 50%higher than what you're used to
Like.
I'm not joking.
I think if you're at a 60degree bank somebody could fact
check this, but I'm pretty surethis accurate If you're in a 60
(20:21):
degree bank turn your stallspeed is 40% higher than at,
because at 60 degree bank you'reat 2Gs.
So at 2Gs your stall speed is40% higher.
I'm pretty sure that's accurate.
Somebody could fact check it.
Somebody probably knows themath on it, but it's just
something to consider whenyou're a hot dog and you're
wrapping it around, doing theseshort approaches which, don't
(20:43):
get me wrong, are helpful andmaybe can be courteous to other
pilots in the pattern.
Things like that, don't get mewrong, can be fun, can be safe
and can help everybody else out.
Don't get me wrong, that's allgreat.
Just be mindful.
You do those things and then,oh, you overshot and you kick
that rudder in to straighten itout, or so you think, and your
(21:06):
stall speeds way elevatedbecause your partial flap,
you're in a highly banked turnand then you kick that rudder in
and you're like at 300 feet.
You're never going to recover,that You know, if you go into a
spin, and those are all theelements that people eat it up
on.
So just be mindful of all thatstuff, i guess.
(21:27):
But, yeah, on a gusty day,partial flap because it's less
lift, Your wing loading is alittle bit higher and whatever,
but probably what you got.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Let's read the chat here.
Jared Johnson has fullyembraced the new call sign.
It says new handshake departure.
Good morning, one whiskey.
Whiskey, runway, heading 2000,.
Climbing 3500.
Maintain PFR, clear of Bravo.
Makes me sad when I get this.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
And Ian says 91.123, always wins.
What is that?
Speaker 1 (22:02):
I don't know what that is.
I don't know what that is.
Jared Johnson's saying approachone whiskey whiskey request, go
ahead.
One whiskey whiskey, onewhiskey whiskey request, pop IFR
clearance to whatever.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Those are all sound radio calls that sound like to
me.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, he's just practicing.
I don't know the exact scenario, i just like that he's using
the new call sign.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Yeah, yeah, he's more in tune with than we are at
this point, one whiskey whiskey,yeah One.
Whiskey whiskey, yeah Yeah Onewhiskey, whiskey two.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Whiskey, whiskey three.
It's like a country song.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, right, yeah.
The original question was whatproper landing technique?
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yeah, When the flare that was way up there.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Energy management.
Well, i can't see the chat atall, so if there's something
else but energy I guess I needto talk less.
But energy management, andthat's just a scale that comes
with time.
You know we're typically in,you know, in the like the CRJ,
like the 700 900, a little bitheavier and a little bit of a
(23:20):
different way.
We came in at about one degreenose up, one degree nose up to
about level of the horizon Andthat would give us a three
degree glide path And so inthere and they're a little bit
heavier, with a different wayand stuff like that.
But when you heard about 30 onthe on the radar out to the call
outs, you dropped the power andland.
Crj 200, you know, was abouttwo and a half degrees nose down
(23:43):
.
Embryer 145, that was prettylevel I guess.
But about at about 50 feet youheard that auto call out
Drostlars, the idle, learjet.
We do the same thing.
We're pretty level on thehorizon with the pitch attitude.
That'll give us about a threedegree glide path following an
ILS or whatever or the PappiesVassys.
That'll give us a three degreeglide path In about 50 feet.
(24:08):
You can chop it.
I typically wait till it's allabout 30.
I like to take that energy intothe flare.
And then, because my techniqueis a little bit different, you
know, and I've talked about thisbefore a lot of people look way
down the runway.
I don't do that so much.
I do it sometimes, but mosttime I'm pretty close in, i'm
not looking way far down, like alot of people are taught, and I
(24:32):
do do pretty good landing.
So like I can't say anybody'swrong, but I know it works for
me.
So I tend to look in prettyclose And that's just the way
I've always done it.
So I'm not I'm not sayingthat's right, i'm just saying
that's the way I do it And maybeI would be better and more
consistent if I did look furtherdown.
I don't know.
So at about 30 feet, when itcalls out automatically I'll,
(24:53):
then I'll chop it idle.
But energy management is a hugething in.
It just takes time in the seatto figure that out.
In the airplane you're flying,you know I've talked, i think,
last year, when I was gettingback into GA after years of not
flying GA.
It took me hours, probably fivehours, of just nonstop takeoffs
(25:14):
and landings, which maybe Iprobably did.
I don't know 2030, 2030landings that way to get back
comfortable, just because myenergy management what do I want
to say?
like my energy managementperception was accustomed to the
(25:36):
leer in my site picture, ofcourse, was adjusted to the leer
and jets and stuff and not theCherokee that I'm flying to the,
to the, you know, to the lakehouse.
So it's like you got to relearnand you got to fly what you're
flying when you're flying it AndI like big picture stuff, but
when it comes down to brasstacks, eventually you've got to
(25:57):
be like okay, i'm gonna land onthis thing, not that thing.
You know I got to land thisairplane not what I fly for a
living, and they're vastlydifferent.
I was coming very, very flat.
I was, you know, a couple oftimes I came in, basically nose
gear first was the first thingto touch, but I mean like right
now I split second, so very,very flat, and then it then, as
(26:21):
I honed it in, understood thedifference in the site picture
again just got reacclimated.
You know it would be like themains first, still the same you
know type thing, but it would bemains first, then the nose gear
, and then I just kept dialingin back and back and back till
it was I'm getting back in morethan that full stall.
And there's a reason.
(26:42):
Instructors teach that, whichis just tough when I'm like,
okay, i can do good landings inmy airplane.
They're playing a fly for aliving.
Now I need to get back in tunewith this and it is just
different.
So, but there's a reason.
So yeah, do all that.
But energy management is thebig one, i think.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Lear jets vastly different than a Cherokee.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, and I tend to land flat.
I tend to land very, very flatAnd that's just my technique.
And maybe that's my techniquebecause of me looking in close
versus way down the runway, idon't know.
But I tend to get pretty goodlandings without any other
negative side effects.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
So yeah, ian says the reauthorization bill from the
house with limitedcommercialization of N numbers
should free up a bunch.
It's interesting Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
There's a lot of stuff in that bill, isn't there?
I don't know all the things init, but I just saw that the
house, i think, is passed atleast bringing the bill to the
floor for raising the mandatoryretirement age for airline pass
from 65 to 67.
Which I know Europe, i think,is mostly already done, if not
all of them, so it was only amatter of time here.
(27:54):
So that'll help some of theretirements at the airlines.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Then Aiman chimed in.
Believe it or not?
we asked, in lieu of Jeff notbeing here, being your former
student idol when you determined, the runways made Yes, That's
what I said yeah, and I thinkthere is a time and place.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
But in a private pilot, i all, what did I just
say?
like five times energymanagement, oh yeah, nothing
gets you more in tune withenergy management than basically
power off 180s.
That's all that is about.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But also knowing the airplane,because that you're doing power
off 180s on a commercial in theCFI And what are you trying to
show?
You're trying to show mastery,you're trying to show that you
(28:38):
understand this drag profile andspacing, timing, all these
elements and you're trying tomash them together and make it
work.
And I try to just instill thatunderstanding because I have
seen so many people just do thisthree degree glide path in
their singling and zero singlingand moony, and it's like dude,
(28:59):
if that engine fails on you.
One, you have no idea howquickly that airplane is going
to drop like a freaking rock.
No clue, that's one And two,even if you do, even if you are
good at at understanding howquickly it will drop, is
understanding and knowing thatit's going to drop like a rock
(29:20):
doesn't do any good If you're ina position where, if it, if the
engine fails, you're stillgoing to crash, you're going to
lay, in short, of the runway.
I understand flying an ILS tominimums in.
You know it's a low overcastceiling.
Those are things you areaccepting And that is the
likelihood of what isoutweighing what you know the
(29:40):
benefit of shooting this ILS tominimums in a single engine
airplane, or the fact that ifthe engine fails while I shoot
this ILS, i'm going to come outthe bottom and land in a farm
field or on top of the building.
You got to weigh all thosethings and I get all of that too
.
But to make it your everydaySOP to just fly this three
(30:02):
degree glide path in your singleengine airplane, i think is
doing you a disservice.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Yeah.
In my opinion, Yeah, all right,we're coming up on two and a
half hours, so we got to shutthis operation down.
Thank you, everybody in thelive chat.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
We'll probably do two or three more of these where
we're all remote again before Iget up to Ohio towards the end
of July and hopefully we cancontinue on continuing on.
Lee has talked about doingpossibly up to like five
episodes a year.
We got a few in the books oflike Lee Griffin one-on-ones.
(30:43):
I think he gets frustrated,scott and I, on some of the
guests we've had, of usderailing the conversation and
not getting as good a stuff.
So we may be adding that to theshow which, if we could get
five a season, that would saveme a trip up to Ohio each year,
which would be a goodproposition.
(31:05):
I think it'd be interesting tooto see Lee be able to, as he
puts it, extract informationwithout having to deal with
Scott and I out of some gueststhat have some knowledge.
But we'll see how that goes.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Look forward to that.
Stay tuned, stay tuned for that.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
You got your microphone back now.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
It was at the recording location.
It's back at your house now.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Yeah, thanks for hanging out in the chat with us.
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Take care everybody.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
All right, see you guys.
Bye.
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