July 20, 2023 • 58 mins
Are you ready to take off on a thrilling journey into the captivating world of aviation? Strap in as we demystify processes like reserving tail numbers with the FAA (yes, we have our own official one - 151 Whiskey Whiskey) and navigate the high-stakes communication between ATC and pilots. We promise an informative, engaging, and exciting conversation ranging from the trials of aviation life, to the nitty-gritty details of Bore Cycle's parts.
Imagine trying to get flight following over Lake Michigan, and now imagine being told ATC is too busy to respond. That's a reality we explore, discussing the challenges of communication in high workload environments. Always prepared, we also talk about unconventional safety measures like life jackets and milk jugs as flotation devices, and the importance of a solid audio setup. After all, the last thing you need during an emergency is a microphone glitch.
And speaking of emergencies, ever wondered what goes into handling an engine failure? From static brake checks to the use of the accelerator pump, we lay it all out. We also delve into the importance of honesty in admitting the cause of such a situation, and the precision needed with fuel selector valves. We wrap up with a little fun - sharing stories of our favorite drinks and basics of aviation math. A splash of Coke in rum anyone? Join us for this riveting conversation, and let's take to the skies together!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Letty in the line of the four watching, so five.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I see five.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Man.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Check it out.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Andrew Wick howdy fellas.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hey, andrew, how you doing man?
Speaker 3 (00:18):
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
John Wick was his uncle.
We established with Ian.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Right, ian Episodes.
Yeah, I think it must be it'sonly logical.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yeah, okay, I sent out the email, so we should be
good.
I'll just let the watchers rollin here for a little bit and I
actually have a surprise, alittle surprise for you guys, oh
.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I have a lot of surprises.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Christmas present.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, we're gonna do an episode.
We're basically it's gonna be aradio communications episode
coming up here.
Well, when this comes out inthe podcast, it'll be have been
last week.
This will probably be fillercontent, okay, and whatever
we're doing that, whatever we'redoing radio comms, we're always
either using Scott's tailnumber or I'm like we're
(01:10):
randomly trying to think ofrandom tail numbers that may or
may not be somebody's.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
My old tail number.
You're trying desperately notto use, accidentally, say, a
company call sign, that sort ofthing.
You know.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
So I have reserved us , through the FAA, officially, a
tail number so we can use itand know that it's nobody else.
We're not saying somebodyelse's tail number, we're not
using accidentally, saying thewrong tail number, so it'd be
like the official tail number ofthe show, like whenever it's
(01:44):
come up.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, yeah, so 151, 151,whiskey, whiskey.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Nice.
So that's the call sign, that'sthe tail number we're gonna use
on the show whenever it comesup, whenever you're like, real
quick, we need to like.
It's not gonna be habit atfirst.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I wrote it down.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, I was gonna say I need to write it down, even
though I should just rememberthat cause it's pretty easy.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, should roll right off the tongue 151 Whiskey
Whiskey, november 151 Whiskey,whiskey.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
It's not registered to any plane, it's just reserved
with the FAA, so we can throwany plane we want for an example
and use it.
A very versatile tail numberfor us.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, eventually I'll throw it on an aircraft you
know yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Probably a powered parachute or like a weight shift
control on amphibes orsomething.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, whatever, you can always transfer to the next
thing you know as you graduateup or whatever, just transfer to
the next thing.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, like one of those.
It's a matter of just gettingsome wire cutters and popping a
zip ties and you can change thetail number on it, you know it's
not like.
It's a paint job, right.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, tyler said that it's a list is 127 not 137.
It's 137.
On what we're recording here,though, which I guess oh is it.
Did you put it wrong and rumbleGood catch.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Tyler.
Uh, andrew, we do sell off roadparts at Bore Cycle.
Just depends on what you need.
We got a little bit ofeverything.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Customer service is great over there too.
Effort.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
It is now we actually just close to the public, so
Officially.
Well, we put signs out, but itdoesn't stop everybody.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, I still got the old timers right then.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, so you get the people that, oh, those signs
don't apply to me, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Everybody thinks that, yeah,yeah, no sign means me.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I've talked to them before.
They know me, so it doesn'tmean me.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I called it earlier?
Yeah, I called it a coupleyears ago.
That's not me.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
I bought parts off you 10 years ago.
Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, come on in.
Right, right, right.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
We got 20.
I should have 23 watching now.
So yeah, 27 I see.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
It's rolling.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
The rolling in.
Now we just I just surprisedLee and Scott.
I think it's called reserve thetail number.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yeah, your reserve yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
We're about to do this sample flight and whenever
we do these radio communicationsexamples, we're always trying
to come up with a tail numberand stuff to you.
So I reserved one so we knowwe're not accidentally using
anyone else's tail number.
So we got 151, 151 whiskeywhiskey.
So November 151 whiskey whiskeywill be the call sign for the
(04:19):
episode coming up here andfuture examples for the show.
I just think it.
I just thought it rolled offthe tongue nice 151 whiskey is
actually somebody already had it.
It was P51 Mustang Nice.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Well.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, so that's worthy cost too.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
We're the two W's 151 , whiskey, whiskey.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I like, I like where you went with that.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I was rolling those brainstorming when I got it and
it's like, just like this, youknow what?
This is probably the one.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I just like I'm impressed, but I also like I
don't know like how much time doyou really have that you had to
find out that 151 whiskey wasalready taken and that you even
want to do this in general, Imight probably I spent a few
hours on it.
A little little concerning tome.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, I thought it was worthy for you, as long as
we keep it for a while.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, no, you're right.
You're right.
I'm trying to figure out how tomake my screen stay on so I
don't have to keep messing withit.
My phone.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Hold on.
I just pulled a Lee coming intoa class trial the airport.
They called me twice and I toldthem hold on, we're doing
things Nice.
How did it go?
Yeah, how did that?
How did you do it?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Any more, please, and I also by me.
Some time is gotta figure outhow to keep this screen from
turning off.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Tyler.
Tyler says bravo for whiskey.
They wouldn't let you do that,though.
You gotta have the if you.
You have two letters, but theygotta both be at the very end.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Mark, yeah, oh, I know.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I know they definitely have to be yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
In the US.
Anyway, you can have up to twoletters in your tail number in
the United States, but theletters have to be at the end
and you cannot choose the letterO or the letter I, because they
can be mistaken for a one orzero.
And then what's the otherstipulation?
You cannot start your tailnumber with a zero.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Right, yeah, okay, I think I.
I think I got that figured outthere, so that's hopefully
helpful.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Aviation.
Mike said he, he, he held untilI called him back.
So that's good.
Pulling the Lee worked in thatsituation.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, I mean, and I'm not.
I'm not saying that's alwaysthe thing, but they also.
Sometimes it's nice to not senda message.
That is the wrong phrase, butthey need to understand that we
are the other side of their joband when we call them, how was
it, how annoying is it when theyjust gave somebody an IFR
clearance or some type ofclearance and you know the other
(06:49):
person needs to read it back,but you just jump in there
anyways, like people do that allthe time and it's super
annoying to them, I'm sure.
So them, when you are in a highworkload, relatively speaking,
point in time, and they're gonnaask you and query you multiple
times without, without aresponse.
They, that should be like kindof their go-to thought process
(07:11):
is all.
They might be busy, becausethat's what mine is, when, when
they're doing something and Iand I check on and they haven't
gotten right back to me.
I just heard them talking tosomebody.
They'll get back to me and ifthey don't have for a long time,
yeah I'll, I'll say something,but it doesn't seem to be.
Boom, boom, boom, rapid fire.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Controlled towers are typically working more with two
flight crew members, which ismore common to get an immediate
response when it's two people.
To talk to one person in theoryis probably what they're.
I'm just trying to think what'sgoing through.
Why is there stipulation thatATC won't immediately get always
(07:49):
get back to you, but ATC, likethe pilot, should always
immediately get back to ATC.
I'm just trying to figure outwhy that's out there in the
consensus.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I don't think that they think that.
I assume that they are.
Probably they don't think thatwe are multitasking to the
degree that they are, becausethey are clearly most of the
time multitasking more than weare.
When we're en route for longperiods of time we're not really
doing that much, justmonitoring or systems monitors.
At that point, when we kindinto the terminal environment we
have, we start having checklistto run and configuring to do
(08:22):
and mental math we're doing, youknow, to be configured on speed
and get the flaps down, geardown, all that stuff, not break
any limitations, comply with allthe regulations as best we can.
And then, especially right afterwe land where you're in this,
which is where I have seen itthe most, you know they want you
get off at a certain taxi wayand it's not really feasible for
(08:44):
you because you know you you'retransferring, you know control
ability of the airplane fromwings and control surfaces to
rudder and you know nose wheelsteering and brakes and those
sorts of things.
So you kind of traverse a littlebit of a area where control
ability is an issue, especiallythere's any runway contamination
involved, and you're trying tokeep.
(09:06):
You know you, you know you're,you're trying to keep on top of
all those things.
They want you to make a certaintaxiway and that is not really
in our that's not even oursphere of thought at that point
in time, as we make callouts,you know, in the transport
category, where we have calloutsand things we need to, we're
saying and relaying to eachother, as you do, all the
(09:30):
decelerating to get down to taxispeed to turn off the runway.
If you don't have a high speedbut a high speed taxi, like one
that goes at like a 45 degreeangle or 30 degree angle off the
runway, if you don't have oneof those, you need to get down
to taxi speed to turn off, tomake that 90 degree typical turn
off, and there's a balancingact that needs to happen there.
And that's where I've seen it,that's where it's happened to me
(09:52):
the most the multiple yeah, Ijust remember I was coming back
from Appleton, wisconsin once,over Lake Michigan.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Try to get flight following and they just ignored
me.
To understand 150.
They're probably too busy formy nonsense, but it would have
felt better going over LakeMichigan.
I did not know about, you know,milk jug safety back in those
days.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Yeah, it's gonna say did you have your milk jugs with
you?
I didn't.
You had no milk jugs at all.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
No, I mean, if you only, if you only Coast Guard
approved life jackets.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, I mean and those are worthless yeah yeah,
what's what?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
what are you gonna do with those?
How are you gonna even yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:31):
that's what I was thinking.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Oh man, amateurs.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, doubles the seat cushion, I guess.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, I guess you could sit on it on your way down
.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah make you feel better?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah, well, you could put it in front of your face so
that when you it's like anairbag, like an airbag.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, would a milk jug work for that?
Maybe not as well for that.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Well, the milk jug I mean yeah, it would work for
that too, but the milk jug wouldwork as a flotation device.
Afterwards I was doing aninsulation in my house, very
versatile you guys know this.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
It's called great stuff.
It's like this foam in a can.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah, yeah.
If you filled a milk jug upwith that, imagine how like a
bunch of a safety device thatwould be.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yeah, you wouldn't have to worry about it.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, breaking and clutch, and then you could
handle the impact you know, youjust write Boston whaler on the
side of it and you're good to go.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I got stickers, I got stickers, I got stickers.
There you go, just stick yourhead on there.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah, buy yourself a cricket and make some decals.
Boston whaler decals on theside.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Need more volume for Rob.
Oh, is my volume low.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
You are a little.
You are a little quiet.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Really, how do I sound now?
Is it good for you guys?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah.
How do I tell them?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I love this setup because I can like move around
and I can still talk right intothe microphone.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I know I'm really actually jealous.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I can lean back in my chair.
I can look this way.
I can look this way.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Well, you're the pilot on the upcoming episode.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
I can keep talking the whole time and it's just
perfect.
I think this is the setup weneed.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
I agree, I'm so jealous.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I crossed my mind.
We have to get better qualityones than that, though they make
broadcast raid.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
I think it's fine.
I paid like $15 for this thing,all right.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
And that included the extended warranty.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Yeah, yeah, it's just top shelf, top of the line.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Okay, we got to find some non-boss ones though,
because I don't want unlessthey're sponsoring the show.
I don't want the freeadvertisement.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
We could always cover up their name.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
As much as people see the side of our head, you know.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yeah, shut up, tyler, don't tell them that yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Jesus Tyler, God D-rail and the whole thing,
definitely.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
I know it's terrible.
Okay, I mean we could get astart on episode here.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Do we have.
Well, if not, I have like alittle story that I'd like to
share.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Go, go go.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
So we were gonna.
Scott, I got to stop breathing.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Though that was me, I'm sorry.
No, scott, I'm gonna stopbreathing.
No, that may have been me.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
I think that was me, I'm not sure.
So my family and I were loadedup in this Cherokee that I used
to fly to our cottage.
So we pull it out, do a quickpre-flight on it.
All the normal stuff, controlsurfaces, fuel oil drain, the
(13:34):
sumps, just general conditioninspection.
Make sure they still hooked upright and moving right.
It wasn't a hack thing Like Idid a pre-flight, right.
Okay, so we go get in, we loadin, we load all our stuff, get
the kids loaded in and we go inand I do the normal pre-flight
checks, like in the interior getthe DG set up and make sure
(13:57):
everything's good, interact andcorrect and all the normal stuff
.
Get the GPS going and make surethe frequencies are right, the
volume is good, audio panel setup.
I checked the fuel selector, Ichecked fuel, proper tank and
then so I take the fuel selectorand I so this is right.
After I start up, like 30seconds or less after I start up
(14:18):
, I'm looking basically enginestarts, I'm looking for oil
pressure, make sure everything'sgood.
Quick scan, set my DG or myheading indicator and fuel
selector valve on the fullesttank.
So I do that.
We get taxi and we weren't evenmoving yet right.
So we get moving and taxiing.
It's a pretty short taxi butnot like the runway's right
(14:41):
there and I do a run up magcheck, carb heat test,
everything's good.
Check oil pressure, gain, oiltemperature and then I bring
from 2000 RPM, which is where Idid the mag check and the carb
heat test.
I bring the power back and idlejust to make sure it will idle.
I want to make sure it's a goodidle and that's typically kind
of my sign that it's going to be.
(15:01):
It's warm enough for takeoff.
I'm not even registering muchoil temp yet.
So then, as I recommend to allof my students primary students
when you're going to go, do yourfirst flight of the day,
basically treat that takeofflike a maximum performance
takeoff If you haven't flown ina while, and the airplane's sad
(15:23):
this that the other thing.
So I do a static.
Brakes are set.
I'm holding the brakes.
We're on the runway now linedup to takeoff.
I do a full power check gauges,brakes release, get rolling
down the runway, get about torotation about.
I saw about 50, 55.
I mean I had already startedpulling engine quits.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Really.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
In a light coming.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Yeah, well, that's what I thought, because my
family's sitting right behind meand I noticed, as I brought the
power back from full to idle sothere's somebody in the pattern
I mean I can't.
I can't really like spate, likeI'm not good at storytelling,
so that's why I suck.
But so when I know there's abananze in the pattern, but in
(16:08):
the moment the engine justfailed, I'm coasting down the
runway.
You know, 50 miles an hourprobably.
By this point I'm trying tothink okay, it just rained a
shitload of rain.
I don't want to take this thingoff the side of the runway
cause it's going to get stuckand cause it's low spots on both
sides.
So I'm thinking this guy'sgoing to and it's pretty, it's
strong out of the north on thisday.
I'm just doing so.
I know they want to use thisrunway.
(16:30):
I don't want to ditch it in theside of the, off the side of
the runway.
But I noticed when I bring itfrom idle or from a full power
to idle that the engines kind ofdoes like a little, like a
little hiccup, and picks uppower again.
I'm like what's going on there?
So I jam it in again and theaccelerator pump squirts fuel
back in.
(16:50):
So I basically acceleratorpumps, I just I'm just running
throttle open and closed to keepthe engine at least turning
over, to give me enough thrust,and I mean I'm, I'm really
working this, this throttle, tokeep enough in our RPM in to
give me thrust to get off therunway at least so I get clear
of the runway.
And it was pretty pretty longrun, um, probably, like I don't
(17:11):
know, maybe 3000 feet to the tothe first turn off.
So I get there and the fuelselector rattled, not
necessarily too off, but offenough that it was.
It was so when I reset it inthe detent it was off just a
little bit.
It was a brand new fuelselector.
(17:32):
I mean, I've flown the airplane, it's been flown several times
since the fuel selector wasinstalled, but it's really I
don't want to call loose, it'svery fluid.
It's the way I want it to work.
But I just wasn't precise enoughin my placement of it when I
put it when I did my fuel fuelproper tank and it was on the
proper tank.
But I always like move it andthen move it back.
I don't know why I do that,maybe I shouldn't do that, but I
(17:55):
liked that.
I like to make sure that it'sin the detent, but in this case
it was just off enough and itrattles off of that detent.
Um, just enough, somewhere oranother.
Or I bumped it and uh cut outand it's just like the simplest,
the stupidest, simplest thingyou know could have got me.
(18:16):
What if that would havehappened a minute later?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
a minute later.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, 30 seconds later.
So it's like one of thosethings, all these things go
through your mind and it's likea such a freak like uh
occurrence.
But it could have been a freakaccident.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
You know it's really, really crazy.
So do you all get back in theplane and take back off.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
We never got out of the plane.
I was very confident.
And then what I did is I did alonger once I got it firmly and
I wiggled it both ways from thedetent to make sure I was like
firmly in the in the detent, um,better than I was the first
time apparently.
Um, firmly in that detent, no,sloppy, either side was, it was
perfect.
Um, then I did another fullpower run up, did another mag
(19:03):
check, no, another car Pete andI let it basically run at like a
thousand RPM for I don't know,probably 45 seconds to a minute,
guessing.
Um, I was confident that thethe fuel lines were, everything
was fine.
So it's just the time it tookfrom when I started up the
engine to taxing out, even doinga mag check, uh, and then doing
(19:25):
a full power run up, checkinggauges and then brakes release
and then get all the way to 50miles an hour going down the
runway and all of that wasthat's what the fuel that was in
the line.
No-transcript.
I guess, I don't, and I guess Idon't know when it rattled fully
from just off the detent to offenough to quit the engine.
I guess I don't know when thathappened exactly, but I'm
(19:49):
assuming it's when I placed itNot firmly enough in the detent.
Shortly after that, you knowfrom the taxing, the vibe like
bouncing and harmonics of thetaxi, I think, is what I
presumed it.
But I don't know for a fact.
So I guess I don't know whenthat is, but in my mind I'm
thinking that it happened aroundwhen I placed it, thought I was
(20:10):
placing it in the detent and ifthat's the case, I mean it's
probably a solid two minutes.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yeah, you probably go two minutes after you shut the
fuel off, I would imagine.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
But a lot of that two minutes was already at a 2000
rpm for the run.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Taxing.
And then I did a full powerstatic run-up on the runway and
Then went to 50 miles an hour.
Yeah so that's a fair amount offuel consumption.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Your wife wasn't concerned about taking off after
that.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Oh, she's like we're good, right.
It's like yeah, yeah, okay,Nicole would have been.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
She went out of that plane and never back in it again
.
I'm glad it didn't happen toher then.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
It was.
Normally I would have been alot more like, hey, we need to
look at this thing, all thatkind of stuff.
But I was so sure because whenI grabbed that fuel selector and
I'm like, when I looked at itthere, because there's a little
bit of that parallax error LikeI can kind of see the line where
the detent would be, and I'mlooking at it because you're,
you're high above it and off tothe side in a pipe or it's on
(21:15):
the left side wall and I'mlooking at it.
I'm like man that looks On likeon the line, so I take it and I
just give it a little bit ofpressure back towards line
because, click, I'm like you gotto be kidding me, you got to be
kidding me.
And so then, and then of courseI was, I did a longer run-up
(21:38):
and a high-power run-up and allthat stuff.
Again, it gave it a solid 45seconds to a minute at idle,
just to make sure, as best Icould, that everything was good
and I was pretty confident Ifound the source.
If I didn't, if I wasn'tconfident that I found the
source, I would have treated itcompletely different.
Let's take it back.
Carb.
Look, you know, prime, makesure the primer system isn't,
(22:00):
you know, bleeding in there,like I had no idea at the time.
And that's just one of thosethings like I can talk, we can
talk, everybody can talk about,like what you do when, and it's
like I used the accelerator pumpto get enough fuel Out of the
fuel bowl or whatever to getwell, that's the primer I guess.
But I used, I used theaccelerator pump to keep the
(22:20):
engine running, to get clear ofthe runway, like I didn't think
about like In the air.
You know I typically teach likea flow.
You have an engine failure,carby mixture, primer fuel,
proper tank.
Those are kind of your bigticket items.
I didn't think any of thatstuff.
I didn't think any of thatRollin and I'm on the ground.
I'm already on the ground Aboutas safe as safe can be, all
(22:42):
things considered in.
None of those things cross mymind.
And maybe if I had the from thetime it happened, the time I
got off the runway, I Couldn'tput it in seconds for you but
quick.
But if you're in the air andmaybe you actually have more
time to diagnose in the, I mean,I guess you do, but depending
on when it happened.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
I mean it happened.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
You might have checked that if you had, or a
2,000 feet and that happened.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Yeah, you definitely want to get the engine running
more than solve a problem if youwere, or anywhere Other than
like right after takeoff.
I feel like you'd have time tofigure that out.
But if you're, if you're 100feet off the ground, you're not
fine.
In that you're not, you're nottroubleshoot at that point, yeah
.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
I mean, you're just looking for somewhere to ditch
that thing at that point right,right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
And then and that's somewhat the mode, unfortunately
, that I was in Because I hadthis order, I had limited
options, kind of there's a guycoming in in a bonanza and it
was a wet off both sides.
I couldn't just ditch so and Iguess it doesn't really matter,
like what I really did.
But, um, my thought was I needto get this thing off the runway
(23:53):
so this dude can land.
That was like my only thought.
And me, you know, I don't know,but it's just weird how you can
talk about all these thingsthat you plan and in you and you
chair, fly and whatever, andthen when something happens, and
then when something happens inthe moment, how much of that
knowledge is just like whatever,I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna
(24:15):
meet the need right now and notgo through all of these steps
Like you guys are saying, rightafter takeoff.
You're just gonna land on thatgolf course, hopefully, or
whatever is right there.
You know that farmers field, soyou were taken off to the north
.
Okay, so what would you havedone?
Speaker 3 (24:32):
a clip here, so you're at 100 foot.
Um that one I mean.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah, so it would have been Basically try to get
it back down.
If not, I would have tried to,like knife, edge it back over
and land, uh, to the west.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Wow.
Yeah, all it all would havesucked.
At that point like you'rebasically, but then I would have
looked awesome this way, I justlooked stupid.
If I would have pulled that offat 100 feet, have an engine
failure and then land on theother runway, then I'd look
awesome.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yeah, if they.
If it went to that point, Iwould just turn the fuel valve
back on and then be like I haveno idea, it just quit on me, you
, because you don't want to belike oh, I had the fuel off, you
know that's yeah, that'sembarrassing, so you'd just be
like yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I have no idea, I think.
So I talked, like you know themechanic was working on it and,
like we had, he's like, oh, Isaw that all happen took three
years off my life and I'm likeit's not your fault, it's just
it's like it functions the wayI'd want it to.
It functions like it's a welloiled, you know piece of
Mechanical thing.
It's not this old clunkyplastic Fuel selector and like a
(25:42):
newer piper.
It's a solid metal handle andthe fuel valve works really,
really great.
But the only issue with thatthat I found, which I will now
be more careful about, is thatit is you need to be very
precise in your placement.
As soon as it clicks to thatdetent, you're done.
You know you're absolutely doneand make sure that it's there.
But I learned and Thankfullynot the hard way, um, you know,
(26:08):
of how that one feels now andhow it, I guess, functions, and
maybe one of the pitfalls ofbeing so it just feels like
lubricated, I mean it just feelslike a very good Free movement
which I, which I like you thinkthat's how they felt originally.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
It's just now.
They're all so old, the oneswe're using that man, I, I don't
know.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I've never felt any fuel selector valve that has
felt as free moving as this onedoes.
I like it, but that's somethingto I mean.
I guess that needs to bethought about.
You know, yeah, I, it's notlike.
I feel like if you had itfirmly in the detent and go
through your turbulence, that'sgoing to go to off.
I'm not in fear of that at all,but it is a very solid.
(26:52):
I mean I, I now I don't want togo like Anything past, like as
soon as that, like Get it movingand then almost have no
pressure on it so that when itstops, like put no effort into
it, so that when it stops, whenit clicks into the detent like
your, it's got enough resistanceto your hand stops.
I don't know how to really tosay that, but it's I just you
(27:15):
can't put any real muscle intoit or you could easily take it
past the precise detent and itwould turn off.
I don't know, it's scary.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it opened myeyes, that's for sure.
The other question is.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
You said you pulled on the runway, held the brakes
and then released them.
You taught me not to do it thatway.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
You on a soft field takeoff.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
So what's the difference?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
well, you don't want to sink into the mud.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
I was on a concrete, okay, but Either way, I still
feel like If you pull down tothat runway and kept your speed
going as you added the power,full power you're gonna be
better off than stoppingbreaking full power.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
So okay, so if you are an out, if you are very,
performance.
If you're performance limited,yeah, in the case if your
performance limited and younormally suspect your engine and
everything's gonna be fine.
Your best case scenario is yeah, keep the momentum, especially
in your case where you're kindadoing a 180 degree turn and then
going.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
You and I actually tried it both ways in the 150,
because I did the brake holdthing and you said, no, I don't
do it that way.
And we went and did it both.
I don't know if you rememberdoing it, but yeah.
The rolling start definitelyworks better than holding the
brake.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yeah, you're taking five or so miles an hour into
your takeoff roll that youordinarily have.
This case not having obstacles,not really.
You would be 90% of the timecorrect.
That would give you theshortest takeoff roll and I mean
(28:56):
without getting out anysignificant scientific measuring
equipment and stuff, I'm prettysure that's the quickest way to
get off.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Is the rolling start.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
The rolling.
Yeah, I'm sure there.
I'm sure somebody can Google itand they'll find stuff that
says otherwise, but done in alot, I've always felt that's
been the best.
In this case, I wanted to makesure since this airplane doesn't
get flown regularly, I wannamake sure I got a good scan on
the engine instruments that wasdeveloping full RPM, oil
pressure, oil temp, all thatgood stuff.
(29:26):
That, in this case, was moreimportant to me than every
single inch or second off theground, cause you and you're
like, what you and I weredemoing is like I only have 1500
feet and I got an obstacle offthe end.
How am I gonna do this Me?
I had 4,000 feet with noobstacles, so like I treated it
(29:49):
differently, really better, yeah, no, and yes, your way, the way
you're describing, I think,would have been better for me
getting off, but the the-.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
The thing you would think, the thing you would think
it off sooner, yes, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
and I mean, and if I did, I would think I would have
had it that way.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Yeah, even if you were 10 foot off the ground, you
probably would have had it onthe front later.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, you don't wanna get in that
position, but yeah.
So that's just the most recentexciting thing that's happened
to me.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, that rattled me yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
I don't know that it would, because I wasn't that
rattled.
I'm more upset with my I amtrying to self-diagnose that why
I didn't go through kind oflike the normal steps Now.
Granted, I was actually doingsomething, so my faculties were
much more constrained than theywould have been.
(30:46):
I think, like in the air, youhave a little bit of time.
The emergency or the only thingyou need to do then is try to
get the engine running, becauseyou have some altitude to play
with.
Once you're kind of donediagnosing or trying to get the
engine started, you're on towhere can I put this thing down?
I didn't have any of that, likeI had very limited outcomes.
(31:09):
I wanna get this thing clear ofthe runway.
I, kind of by happenstance,found a way to do that and if I
didn't I was gonna stop on therunway.
Those are the only two options.
And when I brought the throttleidle I gave a quick look at car
pee and mixture.
I did do that, but I didn't gothrough a check to prime or
check to fuel proper tank.
(31:30):
I didn't do all of that againCause in my mind I had already
done that.
Like that should be good, but Imean it wasn't.
It was the fuel proper tank wasthe issue.
I'm so confident and I changednothing else, but I heard that
click and I knew like, oh yeah,that was definitely it.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Scary there.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
I get scared as I'm on takeoff and like I hit a bug
or something.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Like like just a wind hits the plane.
Man, the more time I spend outof piston anything, if they're
running perfectly fine, that'sstill not as smooth as a turbine
engine.
So, like my mind invents whatwas that, you know what was that
?
What was that?
Speaker 3 (32:08):
That's all I am, just cause I don't fly enough.
It's like, what was that?
You know?
Yeah, right, right, Does thatsound right?
You know?
It's like.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah, is that normal?
Is that normal?
I haven't heard that in a while.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
I've fly this thing like twice a year.
Is that how it normally sounds?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Right, you know, mm-hmm, yeah, then you go over
like open water.
You go night.
I wouldn't go at night.
It's like there's all kinds ofnew sounds and you go flying
airplane at night, I wouldn'tdare fly at night right now.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
That's terrifying.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Seems like it's going to force that screen.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah, dan, this was just this weekend.
This was Friday last Friday.
This coming Friday.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I was going to have the clock on there, but it's.
I don't want to.
It's just going to take overthe screen, it's not going to be
good.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
It did, it did.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
I'll just yeah.
I agree, Taking your headsetoff is terrifying If you aren't
used to flying that way.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Well, yeah, we did a how many first hours with Dan,
Right with Don.
Yeah, he didn't want us.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
We didn't wear headsets Cause he wanted us to.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Yeah, when I did my private, I'd never wore a
headset my whole time.
Do you remember doing like yourtowered stuff with no headset?
Yeah, I don't even know how Idid not bust anything Like.
I hope he's telling me what Iwant to do.
Yeah, cause I'm going to go dothat.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
I remember like First flight with the headset was the
.
It was great.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Right after I got my license, check ride private.
Yeah, check ride, cause wenever, we never used them.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, All those old guys that knows.
Remember, for the islands theyhad those super flimsy telex Yep
.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Yep, just a foam cover, almost like a walk man
with a mic.
Yep, those things yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Oh, my dad loves those things.
I can never do that.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
No, I don't want to go deaf either.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah, I'm yeah.
I don't need any help in thatdepartment.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
All right, let's kick off the episode.
You guys got your Detroit taxidiagram up.
I got to.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
I got to pretend to be Detroit ground and I didn't
know we were going that nuts,but yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
I will absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Well, yeah, you're going to be in the general
aviation area of the ramp whenwe start the episode here.
Scott.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
And then I got to try to figure out how to be air
traffic controller and get youto PCW.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Well, once you're out of my airspace then my job's
done.
You just got to do the comms toget back to PCW.
But you start the East Dangeneral aviation at Detroit,
KDTW.
I just went to Air Nav andpulled up the diagram.
They got a link for it.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Oh, this is exciting, I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
You see, the general aviation area is that.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
I mean, yeah, I go in there.
What's the?
Speaker 1 (34:40):
what are the current winds, lee, if you could pull
that up.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I mean current winds.
No, why don't you, why don'tyou have Scott do this?
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Okay, I don't know, scott Scott's struggling to pull
up there.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Yeah, I'm still trying to find them.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
I just went to sky vector.
That's what I did.
Here now would probably bebetter.
Okay, well, I'll help thisalong.
So the winds right now, detroit, all right.
So we're East Coast, so it'sthe 20th day of the month, so
I'm looking at a METAR line ofcode right.
KDTW Detroit, wayne County, is202253Z.
(35:18):
So what that means is the 20thday of the month, june 20th, and
it's 2253Zulu.
So we're East Coast time, it'sEastern, it's daylight savings
time right now.
So we're a minus four.
So 2253 minus four is 1853 inmilitary time and I hope most
(35:40):
people know military time.
So that's 653.
Pm was when this came out and itsays 52 minutes ago.
So that stands for reason here.
Then now it's 11012, gusting 19knots Says 10 miles, 1010 SM,
and then SCT stands forscattered 050, which is 5,000.
(36:03):
So that's in what I call flightlevel format.
So it's a three digit code foryour altitude.
So zero, that was zero, beingthe tens of thousands, and then,
in this case, the five being5,000 and then the zero again
being hundreds.
So 10,000s, thousands, hundreds.
(36:24):
I don't even know if I'm sayingthat right, but that's pretty
much what it means.
So it says scattered 150,that'd mean 1,500, 15,000 feet.
Or if it was 005, that would be500 feet, so that'd be an IFR
day.
Today is scattered 5,000,beautiful day here, 28 degrees
Celsius, ooh and oh.
While we're here, if I may, aquick conversion for Celsius
(36:48):
Quick, 28 times two.
So that's 56 plus 30 is 86degrees.
It's about 80, probably about84 would be my guess.
But take your Celsius valuetimes two, add 30.
And that gets you close.
If you wanna be like prettymuch right on it, add 30,
(37:11):
something too bold I do saythat's 220,000 to 5,000.
At 30, then subtract 10% ofyour original value, which would
be 2.8 degrees.
That should be like almostperfectly on.
Is that all right with you guys?
Did that make any sense at all?
Speaker 1 (37:27):
A little bit.
I'm just aiming in the chat now, so I just laugh at that.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Okay, what's going on ?
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah, let's start the episode then, oh okay, I
thought we had.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Okay, I'm sorry, I'm just gonna do the just shut up
about aviation shit, I guess.
Yeah, oh I just that's good.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
What are you drinking now, leigh?
Speaker 2 (37:47):
This is a.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
What's everybody drinking?
Yeah, yeah, I mean people,they're already checking in
telling us what they're drinkingBlueberry wine.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Who's drinking blueberry wine?
You are.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
TV Briggs 95, scrambling to get his beers.
This is a while ago.
He's probably got his beers bynow.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, good, yeah, yeah, go back, because, yeah, I
missed so many.
I saw cigar somewhere, that'sawesome.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Aviation Mike is a show prepping with screwball,
peanut butter whiskey.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Oh yeah, I did see that too, which I've never had,
but I've heard people like Imean people I kind of trust say
how awesome it is, so I do needto try that sometime.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
JC aviator is enjoying a cigar and monkey
shoulder scotch whiskey.
I've got a captain Coke goingbut I only have one little mini
can, so I just had to make therum extra strong because I only
had a little bit of Coke to fillthe rest of the glass.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
And that's the way it should be.
Anyways, rob, like we need toget you to straight rum.
That's my goal for you.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
If it's higher end they'll do it Like on my buddy
he just had like a I forget howmany year age, just like the $80
version of Pilar.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Right, I remember you telling me about this.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
The cap got a little chain Now this is like two days
ago.
I haven't talked to you sincethis, oh, okay.
It was over the weekend.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
So it was another story, fantastic, another great
bottle.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
I just throw in a splash of Coke in there.
It was all it needed.
Why would you even do that?
Just, it disrupts the taste alittle bit.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Rum is not like whiskey, it's there's plenty of
people that probably drink rum.
Oh sure yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Okay, but it just it takes a little bit of that angry
bite out of the rum you justthrow like a small splash of
Coke in it.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Yeah, okay, well, I guess continue if you want.
Oh no, let me, I guess let meanswer Scott's question.
So this is a crush worth ease.
What is called by Great LakesBrewing Company?
It's called a low-cal citruswheat.
It's not bad.
It's kind of like a same AdamSummary, which I like too.
It's an ale with orange andlemon.
What I like about it it's only4% alcohol, so you can just like
(39:47):
you can slam them.
Yep, that's the plan.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
You at home right.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah, new house though you know, so it's a
little bit of a differentscenery yeah, it's a little
background looks different.
Yeah, I mean work in progress,yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
All right, Okay, I'm gonna.
I'm, Barb was talking about howmuch you love the music when
the thank you again, Tyler, Barband Jared for helping us out
here with episode 135 and 136.
In there was mentioned how muchthey love the show.
I've decided I'm kind of sickof that.
So it's not going to be that.
(40:26):
I don't know what it is yet,I'm just going to choose stuff
at random.
So I'm not going to do intromusic, so we're just going to
yeah, we're going to start it.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Hold on, hold on.
I'm going to ask my dad.
Thanks, bailey, still Don'tthink he brings it regularly,
but he does enjoy it If onoccasions it is one of his
favorites.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
JCAviator, yes, we did.
Plantation room Andreas got usa bottle that we drank last
summer.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
That's a good one.
That is a good one.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, that was a good one.
All right, three, two, one.
Okay, we're just X off thatclock.
(41:23):
Somebody said something here.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
So many things.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
There's so many stuff going on the chat.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Are mine sending twice?
It's showing twice on mine.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
You're what.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
You're like my responses in the chat.
I don't even see your responses.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
I don't see your responses either.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Oh, more right rudder .
Oh, that's you.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
I had no idea that was you.
No, okay, yeah, no, it's justshowing one.
I should have.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
I guess I'm an idiot.
I didn't even really think thatnobody knew what that was.
Okay, yeah, that makes a lotbetter sense.
Um, so to answer, uh, Ian saidLee, what do you say when the
active runway is for?
Is runway four?
Left down when four forward?
You just say, or do you sayrunway?
So you're trying to ask me sothat because there's not four,
(42:10):
four like two, two, two, numberfours I don't tend to say four,
ever like F O R.
I'm very robotic in my myphraseology.
So in this case, uh, left downwhen four, whatever the runway
is, it's zero.
(42:32):
Four would be nice way to breakit up.
If you want to add the extraword for there, which I know a
lot of people do, I don't.
You don't need you to tell meit's a runway.
I know you're laying on arunway, I don't need you to tell
me extra stuff.
Um, the only exception I reallymake for that is I like to make
the left or the right asappropriate.
I do like that and I know thatcan add up to frequency
congestion.
(42:52):
I think it's worth it for acouple of reasons, the main one
that comes to mind right now.
Let's say you have an aircraftthat is a student pilot or a low
time pilot who is used toflying at an airport where it is
right traffic, some of therunways, all the runways, half
the runways, whatever, and theyare looking and they're setting
(43:17):
up their their spot on the inthe run up pad, whatever to
account for that.
I think just saying left islittle effort as it takes to
just say left.
Obviously if you're changingwhat you say, that is a lot more
effort than for me, which I'vealways started just saying left
or right as appropriate.
But I understand for somebodyto change that is a lot more
effort.
(43:38):
But the little effort whenyou're teaching somebody correct
phraseology and I'm not sayingthis is correct because it's my
way, I'm just saying you addressa lot more a wider swath of
potential conflicts If you justsay left or right all the time
as appropriate.
That's just my opinion, Becausethere's people out there that
(43:59):
don't give any thought to oh,not every runway nine is right
traffic.
Some of them are left.
That's weird, you know theyjust, even though we all know
the default is left.
Just, some people just get intheir mind and I just feel like
reinforcing that.
It's just, it's too easy not tojust say it in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Yeah, I suppose D4, he said there's a Ford Tri-Pacer
.
I think he meant Tri-Motor.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Tri-Motor.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
I would imagine.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Maybe I don't know exactly what he's saying.
Ford Tri-Motor from Portlandjust spent four days here at
Fred I think that'sFredericksburg or Fred Frederick
, I guess, I don't know.
Very cool, I don't know exactlywhat he's saying.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
Yeah it sounds like the Ford the Tri-Motor is based
at Portland.
Did he ride on it?
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Like what's I guess, what's the I don't know it's
about four days.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
there Could be a Tri-Pacer.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, you don't know, you don't know either Scott,
that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
I don't know.
I don't think Ford made theTri-Pacer Probably not.
Probably not.
It wouldn't run very good ifthey did.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
Be the best Tri-Pacer or a Bill.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Yeah right, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, I was thinking
Fairchild.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
I would have said look up the tail number of that
one, but it's Tri-Pacer sothat's irrelevant.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Right, I see a runway .
See, people don't think I justinadvertently ended the
transmission early, but onlywhen landing on runway four.
I had, but, jared, I had moreright rudder way before, like
when rumble started.
(45:44):
I probably couldn't go get thatnow if I wanted it.
You know I had this for you.
I've had this for years,literally.
Yeah, I don't know we're goingwith that, but yeah, I, I keep
it simple.
So in the case of a runway forzero, for whatever one, for I
guess that doesn't matter, butlet entering left down when, for
(46:05):
Whatever name your report, poorClinton, they don't have a four
.
But if you punctuate it, theyknow that you didn't end your
transmission.
And I think it's more importantto punctuate at the end of your
transmission their airport,because, again, that people tend
to not be listening or they'renot ready to listen at the
beginning.
So if you say Poor Clintontraffic, what was saying Baron
(46:29):
151 whiskey, whiskey, enteringleft down when for poor Clinton?
Obviously they had.
There was a enough ahead.
But when you start reallygetting close in and you're
really shortening it, thenpeople don't have the time to
really tune into what you'resaying to get the the big
picture.
So Baron 151 whiskey, whiskeyLeft base for poor Clinton.
(46:57):
I'm never, I'm never leavinganybody hanging.
I'm not adding a 4-4 run.
I'm not adding a left base 4-4Poor Clinton or poor Clinton
traffic 151 whiskey whiskey,left base 4-4.
Like I'm not doing any of thosethings I'm.
I feel like it's clean the waythat I'm doing it.
(47:17):
I don't know if it's landing,but I feel like it's cleaner.
Say at the beginning, at leastfor the first few transmissions,
if it was a TC, let themshorten it.
Then you can shorten it, but inlieu of a TC being involved,
wait till you're probably.
You know if it's a beautifulSaturday, yeah, you probably
need to start shortening itearlier or you won't even be
(47:38):
able to your edge your word inedge-wise, and it's just gonna
be muddy and nobody, it doesn'tmatter.
I mean everybody's situationalawareness and Spatial
orientation of everybody else inthe traffic pattern is like
stupid, nothing but squelchingand crazy.
People are yelling on the radio.
(47:58):
Yeah, I mean, if everybody wereto just shorten stuff and give
me this short and the sweet.
If you're at an airport whenyou know there isn't you've been
in the pattern for an hourBeating up the pattern with a
student you don't need to makeevery call.
I mean, it's like I Get whatyou're doing, but look at the
big picture.
You are muttering.
If you're on the one twenty twopoint eight, or one twenty
(48:20):
three zero or 2375, 227,whatever it is, you know one of
those frequencies.
It's a busy Saturday.
Use your head.
If there's nobody else around,you don't need to make every
call.
Maybe make a downwind, maybemake a final pick one.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Just use your head because there's people Only do
the downwind, unless it's like abusier airport but See if I
doing laps in a pattern.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Just they have.
They're listening to the radio,they have the situational
awareness of what's going onmore than anybody else.
Bingo, so they yeah, they cancut some stuff out and yeah,
safety's not compromised.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
Exactly, there's a.
So you're talking about anairplane that has one
theoretically high time, wellexperienced and in verse and
kind of there the day-in-day outflying stuff at there, that the
airport they're at probably orthey wouldn't be doing laps in
the pattern, and there's twopilots to boot.
(49:26):
So it's like if there was acase for somebody, two sets of
eyes, intune with the bigpicture, if there was a case for
somebody to not make everyradio call that's pretty much
yet Um.
So it's like, use your bestjudgment if you're trying to
install these, these reallyrobust Core skill sets, best
(49:51):
practices, on a student or aclient.
I get that, but on the otherside of that, what Instilling
best practices in them and andusing common sense is equally as
important, I think yeah.
If you can't hardly get a wordin or you need to wait to get
(50:11):
that word in, that's kind of asign.
You need maybe evaluate yourtactic on this short in the call
sign and maybe just Not makeevery single call.
I don't need to hear an upwindacross, wind up, downwind, a
base in a final first off.
Those aren't required in theaim and and.
Speaker 3 (50:32):
Nothing.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
So even if the aim Lee, did you just say shorten
your tail number?
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Yeah, if you're in the pattern and you're in touch,
if you're making initial callup, it's.
I think it's good practice,whether it be your call and
seats half Getting in in in tunewith everybody in the pattern
or getting everybody in thepattern in tune with you.
Full call sign.
Type of aircraft full call signsame with ATC.
If you're just doing laps inthe pattern for an hour and
(50:59):
you're trying to knock out 30landings, shorten it up on most
of them.
If, if you and don't don't dohalf of them, that's one and
then the ones you do do, shortenit up.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Scott, you.
There's people who havemeaningful stuff to say, do you?
Speaker 1 (51:16):
do calls at your own airport.
Still, you said I got busierover the years.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
Yeah, I mean it is busier, but I don't do calls
here.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
You still don't do, I don't.
I don't think I've, unless Iknow somebody else.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
Yeah, if I know somebody's out, I can hear them.
Speaker 2 (51:30):
I, I did calls then that's the only time I've ever
ever did calls there, yeah it'sjust local now, yeah, I Can go
both ways on that kind of,because I feel like it's skills
just atrophy, not this sayingentering left downwind is that
(51:52):
much of a of a thing, but IDon't know.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Did you all the calls at North Pass in the winter?
I?
Speaker 2 (52:03):
Would say most of them really yep five, five south
inbound, you know.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
One of them.
Most of them.
I don't know if I would havedone most of them in the
summertime, little in the winterout there, but I never it's
it's.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
The thing is is what does it, god?
You guys see how much I talkhere.
I mean, like it's no effort forme to just key the mic and make
a call.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
So that's more of like just a boredom call just to
give yourself.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Well, you could look at it that way, but it's more of
like an integrity I'm supposedto.
I'm so Well when there's nobodyto hear it, which is half the
time well, you can hear it inyour own headset.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
What's that called the?
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Side tone side tone.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
Yeah, you got the side tone, so you, you can hear
yourself at least you know, yeah, I'll just key the mic up and
just talk to myself whole time,whole flight.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
No, I just.
I know I'm supposed to, so Okay.
I just do, why not?
Speaker 1 (53:04):
Scott, do you see now that a delta is busy or do you
see other people?
Are there more people doingcalls?
Because when we were wereteenagers, like nobody make
calls unless they were like fromout of town, come in or
something like you're asking me.
Yeah, do you hear people?
Speaker 2 (53:21):
doesn't fly.
Didn't hear my radio?
Speaker 3 (53:23):
Okay, I'm sorry last time I flew is with Lee, like I
don't know a while ago when wasthat?
I don't remember when that wasI need another flight review if
you get a chance.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Well, I'm renewing my CFI this month.
It's due in Eight days no.
So I got a lot on my plateright now, but yeah, I knocked
that out.
Don't let that lapse well, Iknow it's got not going to get
you.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
Yeah, do for it, he'll find a way for another
flight At least about that.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
Yeah, I Guess my point would be just like just if
you know that it's right,what's, what's the harm in just
making the call?
Speaker 3 (54:05):
I just I don't.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
It won't hurt your ears cuz you won't hear it, cuz
you don't fly.
Speaker 3 (54:12):
Cuz, I don't know how to fly.
Speaker 2 (54:14):
Well, that makes two of us, but I.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
That recorder.
We bought that the court.
We just got to get a recordernow to record all of your audio
and your plane, scott.
Speaker 3 (54:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
You start flying more and all of clips we can put in
the show.
I feel just like that beentertaining.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
It would be interesting, right yet a pull
one up as we talk about and belike, okay, what went wrong here
and you know whatever, and thenlet ATC chime in and it would
kind of reaffirm what went wrong.
Yeah, there's all kinds ofstuff.
I lost the chat.
My phone just died, so okay.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
We're gonna do a few more of these, probably remotely
, because my transmission blewup or else.
I was, it would have been inOhio right now, but we get up in
.
Ohio.
We got a really dial in that.
Scott, it's gonna be one of ourgoals to get your your airplane
recording everything like a,like a Cessna 150 black box,
(55:08):
just for show, show purposes.
And then, yeah, I just feellike you doing flight reviews,
just general, you flying around,I feel like there's gonna be
some.
Speaker 3 (55:20):
I need lots of dual before I do any solo work.
Speaker 1 (55:24):
Yeah, oh, geez.
Well, the dual will beentertaining, I'm sure Love Lee
put you through the ringer,whoever else you get, echol.
Yeah somebody will put youthrough the ringer.
Speaker 3 (55:35):
Echol blew me off.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
We'll have the audio clips blows me off.
We'll have the audio clips forthe show here.
It'll be good.
Yeah, I can put it.
I can put it in here in thebutton next to the bottle caps.
Speaker 3 (55:47):
We need to get some live ATC for 88 Delta.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
Yeah, there you go.
What's up, what's going on thechat?
Is there anything?
I get the 80s.
Speaker 3 (55:56):
I gotta go to bed.
It's late so I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (55:58):
Yeah, I got flying Bravo recorded.
Will make aviation podcast Hallof Fame stance good scene y'all
Later.
Speaker 2 (56:06):
Scott, good night.
Yeah, see man leave yourbrowser.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
Leave your browser.
Speaker 3 (56:11):
I don't need to, because it's already uploaded.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
Oh, that's true.
Speaker 3 (56:15):
Oh yeah, he's pretty up I remember I don't know like
what century you guys are livingin.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
But yeah, this, the internet gods have completely
changed, flipped.
Speaker 2 (56:25):
Yeah, scott has the fastest internet of the three of
us.
Now he's not in the, he's notin the mere station I'm the
death star.
He's on the death.
Speaker 3 (56:33):
I don't even understand people who don't have
fiber.
Yeah, how do you even?
How do you function?
What's it like?
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
Amen, amen.
Put the up finger emoji toTyler's comment.
Scott flying into Bravorecorder will make aviation
podcast Hall of Fame stance.
It's good stuff, we got to doit.
Yeah, we will, we will send youinto good, send you in and out
of Detroit for real.
Speaker 2 (56:58):
Yeah, you have to use your own sign.
Just stupid, though I'm gonnado any of you if our flying, but
yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
Alright, see man leave your browser.
Fiber you're only 99, will justsay it.
Anyways, it's just as soon as Ihit the hang up, it's gonna go
to 100%.
Leave your browser up and notat 100%.
Now it's not at 110% right now.
Speaker 3 (57:20):
What's you, what's yours?
That?
Speaker 1 (57:21):
I'm not talking, You're still talking.
Yeah, you're.
Where's that?
All three of us are 99?
Speaker 2 (57:26):
Oh yeah so what are you paying for?
You're paying for all thatGoogle or the fight the fire
front here.
Speaker 3 (57:32):
It's probably cheaper .
It's like $40 a month for fiber.
This is it's?
Speaker 1 (57:36):
free.
I'm not paying for this at all.
Speaker 3 (57:39):
No, it's nothing's free.
Okay, nothing's for your painfor somewhere, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
Go okay, bye Scott, we gotta go.
We gotta get some moreimportant stuff yeah.
Letty in the line of the four watching, so five.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I see five.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Man.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Check it out.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Andrew Wick howdy fellas.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hey, andrew, how you doing man?
Speaker 3 (00:18):
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
John Wick was his uncle.
We established with Ian.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Right, ian Episodes.
Yeah, I think it must be it'sonly logical.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yeah, okay, I sent out the email, so we should be
good.
I'll just let the watchers rollin here for a little bit and I
actually have a surprise, alittle surprise for you guys, oh
.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I have a lot of surprises.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Christmas present.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, we're gonna do an episode.
We're basically it's gonna be aradio communications episode
coming up here.
Well, when this comes out inthe podcast, it'll be have been
last week.
This will probably be fillercontent, okay, and whatever
we're doing that, whatever we'redoing radio comms, we're always
either using Scott's tailnumber or I'm like we're
(01:10):
randomly trying to think ofrandom tail numbers that may or
may not be somebody's.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
My old tail number.
You're trying desperately notto use, accidentally, say, a
company call sign, that sort ofthing.
You know.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
So I have reserved us , through the FAA, officially, a
tail number so we can use itand know that it's nobody else.
We're not saying somebodyelse's tail number, we're not
using accidentally, saying thewrong tail number, so it'd be
like the official tail number ofthe show, like whenever it's
(01:44):
come up.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, yeah, so 151, 151,whiskey, whiskey.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Nice.
So that's the call sign, that'sthe tail number we're gonna use
on the show whenever it comesup, whenever you're like, real
quick, we need to like.
It's not gonna be habit atfirst.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I wrote it down.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, I was gonna say I need to write it down, even
though I should just rememberthat cause it's pretty easy.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, should roll right off the tongue 151 Whiskey
Whiskey, november 151 Whiskey,whiskey.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
It's not registered to any plane, it's just reserved
with the FAA, so we can throwany plane we want for an example
and use it.
A very versatile tail numberfor us.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, eventually I'll throw it on an aircraft you
know yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Probably a powered parachute or like a weight shift
control on amphibes orsomething.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, whatever, you can always transfer to the next
thing you know as you graduateup or whatever, just transfer to
the next thing.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, like one of those.
It's a matter of just gettingsome wire cutters and popping a
zip ties and you can change thetail number on it, you know it's
not like.
It's a paint job, right.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, tyler said that it's a list is 127 not 137.
It's 137.
On what we're recording here,though, which I guess oh is it.
Did you put it wrong and rumbleGood catch.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Tyler.
Uh, andrew, we do sell off roadparts at Bore Cycle.
Just depends on what you need.
We got a little bit ofeverything.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Customer service is great over there too.
Effort.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
It is now we actually just close to the public, so
Officially.
Well, we put signs out, but itdoesn't stop everybody.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, I still got the old timers right then.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, so you get the people that, oh, those signs
don't apply to me, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Everybody thinks that, yeah,yeah, no sign means me.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I've talked to them before.
They know me, so it doesn'tmean me.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I called it earlier?
Yeah, I called it a coupleyears ago.
That's not me.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
I bought parts off you 10 years ago.
Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, come on in.
Right, right, right.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
We got 20.
I should have 23 watching now.
So yeah, 27 I see.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
It's rolling.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
The rolling in.
Now we just I just surprisedLee and Scott.
I think it's called reserve thetail number.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yeah, your reserve yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
We're about to do this sample flight and whenever
we do these radio communicationsexamples, we're always trying
to come up with a tail numberand stuff to you.
So I reserved one so we knowwe're not accidentally using
anyone else's tail number.
So we got 151, 151 whiskeywhiskey.
So November 151 whiskey whiskeywill be the call sign for the
(04:19):
episode coming up here andfuture examples for the show.
I just think it.
I just thought it rolled offthe tongue nice 151 whiskey is
actually somebody already had it.
It was P51 Mustang Nice.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Well.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, so that's worthy cost too.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
We're the two W's 151 , whiskey, whiskey.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I like, I like where you went with that.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I was rolling those brainstorming when I got it and
it's like, just like this, youknow what?
This is probably the one.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I just like I'm impressed, but I also like I
don't know like how much time doyou really have that you had to
find out that 151 whiskey wasalready taken and that you even
want to do this in general, Imight probably I spent a few
hours on it.
A little little concerning tome.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, I thought it was worthy for you, as long as
we keep it for a while.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, no, you're right.
You're right.
I'm trying to figure out how tomake my screen stay on so I
don't have to keep messing withit.
My phone.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Hold on.
I just pulled a Lee coming intoa class trial the airport.
They called me twice and I toldthem hold on, we're doing
things Nice.
How did it go?
Yeah, how did that?
How did you do it?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Any more, please, and I also by me.
Some time is gotta figure outhow to keep this screen from
turning off.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Tyler.
Tyler says bravo for whiskey.
They wouldn't let you do that,though.
You gotta have the if you.
You have two letters, but theygotta both be at the very end.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Mark, yeah, oh, I know.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I know they definitely have to be yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
In the US.
Anyway, you can have up to twoletters in your tail number in
the United States, but theletters have to be at the end
and you cannot choose the letterO or the letter I, because they
can be mistaken for a one orzero.
And then what's the otherstipulation?
You cannot start your tailnumber with a zero.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Right, yeah, okay, I think I.
I think I got that figured outthere, so that's hopefully
helpful.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Aviation.
Mike said he, he, he held untilI called him back.
So that's good.
Pulling the Lee worked in thatsituation.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, I mean, and I'm not.
I'm not saying that's alwaysthe thing, but they also.
Sometimes it's nice to not senda message.
That is the wrong phrase, butthey need to understand that we
are the other side of their joband when we call them, how was
it, how annoying is it when theyjust gave somebody an IFR
clearance or some type ofclearance and you know the other
(06:49):
person needs to read it back,but you just jump in there
anyways, like people do that allthe time and it's super
annoying to them, I'm sure.
So them, when you are in a highworkload, relatively speaking,
point in time, and they're gonnaask you and query you multiple
times without, without aresponse.
They, that should be like kindof their go-to thought process
(07:11):
is all.
They might be busy, becausethat's what mine is, when, when
they're doing something and Iand I check on and they haven't
gotten right back to me.
I just heard them talking tosomebody.
They'll get back to me and ifthey don't have for a long time,
yeah I'll, I'll say something,but it doesn't seem to be.
Boom, boom, boom, rapid fire.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Controlled towers are typically working more with two
flight crew members, which ismore common to get an immediate
response when it's two people.
To talk to one person in theoryis probably what they're.
I'm just trying to think what'sgoing through.
Why is there stipulation thatATC won't immediately get always
(07:49):
get back to you, but ATC, likethe pilot, should always
immediately get back to ATC.
I'm just trying to figure outwhy that's out there in the
consensus.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I don't think that they think that.
I assume that they are.
Probably they don't think thatwe are multitasking to the
degree that they are, becausethey are clearly most of the
time multitasking more than weare.
When we're en route for longperiods of time we're not really
doing that much, justmonitoring or systems monitors.
At that point, when we kindinto the terminal environment we
have, we start having checklistto run and configuring to do
(08:22):
and mental math we're doing, youknow, to be configured on speed
and get the flaps down, geardown, all that stuff, not break
any limitations, comply with allthe regulations as best we can.
And then, especially right afterwe land where you're in this,
which is where I have seen itthe most, you know they want you
get off at a certain taxi wayand it's not really feasible for
(08:44):
you because you know you you'retransferring, you know control
ability of the airplane fromwings and control surfaces to
rudder and you know nose wheelsteering and brakes and those
sorts of things.
So you kind of traverse a littlebit of a area where control
ability is an issue, especiallythere's any runway contamination
involved, and you're trying tokeep.
(09:06):
You know you, you know you're,you're trying to keep on top of
all those things.
They want you to make a certaintaxiway and that is not really
in our that's not even oursphere of thought at that point
in time, as we make callouts,you know, in the transport
category, where we have calloutsand things we need to, we're
saying and relaying to eachother, as you do, all the
(09:30):
decelerating to get down to taxispeed to turn off the runway.
If you don't have a high speedbut a high speed taxi, like one
that goes at like a 45 degreeangle or 30 degree angle off the
runway, if you don't have oneof those, you need to get down
to taxi speed to turn off, tomake that 90 degree typical turn
off, and there's a balancingact that needs to happen there.
And that's where I've seen it,that's where it's happened to me
(09:52):
the most the multiple yeah, Ijust remember I was coming back
from Appleton, wisconsin once,over Lake Michigan.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Try to get flight following and they just ignored
me.
To understand 150.
They're probably too busy formy nonsense, but it would have
felt better going over LakeMichigan.
I did not know about, you know,milk jug safety back in those
days.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Yeah, it's gonna say did you have your milk jugs with
you?
I didn't.
You had no milk jugs at all.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
No, I mean, if you only, if you only Coast Guard
approved life jackets.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, I mean and those are worthless yeah yeah,
what's what?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
what are you gonna do with those?
How are you gonna even yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:31):
that's what I was thinking.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Oh man, amateurs.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, doubles the seat cushion, I guess.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, I guess you could sit on it on your way down
.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah make you feel better?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah, well, you could put it in front of your face so
that when you it's like anairbag, like an airbag.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, would a milk jug work for that?
Maybe not as well for that.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Well, the milk jug I mean yeah, it would work for
that too, but the milk jug wouldwork as a flotation device.
Afterwards I was doing aninsulation in my house, very
versatile you guys know this.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
It's called great stuff.
It's like this foam in a can.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah, yeah.
If you filled a milk jug upwith that, imagine how like a
bunch of a safety device thatwould be.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yeah, you wouldn't have to worry about it.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, breaking and clutch, and then you could
handle the impact you know, youjust write Boston whaler on the
side of it and you're good to go.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I got stickers, I got stickers, I got stickers.
There you go, just stick yourhead on there.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah, buy yourself a cricket and make some decals.
Boston whaler decals on theside.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Need more volume for Rob.
Oh, is my volume low.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
You are a little.
You are a little quiet.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Really, how do I sound now?
Is it good for you guys?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah.
How do I tell them?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I love this setup because I can like move around
and I can still talk right intothe microphone.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I know I'm really actually jealous.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I can lean back in my chair.
I can look this way.
I can look this way.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Well, you're the pilot on the upcoming episode.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
I can keep talking the whole time and it's just
perfect.
I think this is the setup weneed.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
I agree, I'm so jealous.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I crossed my mind.
We have to get better qualityones than that, though they make
broadcast raid.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
I think it's fine.
I paid like $15 for this thing,all right.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
And that included the extended warranty.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Yeah, yeah, it's just top shelf, top of the line.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Okay, we got to find some non-boss ones though,
because I don't want unlessthey're sponsoring the show.
I don't want the freeadvertisement.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
We could always cover up their name.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
As much as people see the side of our head, you know.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yeah, shut up, tyler, don't tell them that yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Jesus Tyler, God D-rail and the whole thing,
definitely.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
I know it's terrible.
Okay, I mean we could get astart on episode here.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Do we have.
Well, if not, I have like alittle story that I'd like to
share.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Go, go go.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
So we were gonna.
Scott, I got to stop breathing.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Though that was me, I'm sorry.
No, scott, I'm gonna stopbreathing.
No, that may have been me.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
I think that was me, I'm not sure.
So my family and I were loadedup in this Cherokee that I used
to fly to our cottage.
So we pull it out, do a quickpre-flight on it.
All the normal stuff, controlsurfaces, fuel oil drain, the
(13:34):
sumps, just general conditioninspection.
Make sure they still hooked upright and moving right.
It wasn't a hack thing Like Idid a pre-flight, right.
Okay, so we go get in, we loadin, we load all our stuff, get
the kids loaded in and we go inand I do the normal pre-flight
checks, like in the interior getthe DG set up and make sure
(13:57):
everything's good, interact andcorrect and all the normal stuff
.
Get the GPS going and make surethe frequencies are right, the
volume is good, audio panel setup.
I checked the fuel selector, Ichecked fuel, proper tank and
then so I take the fuel selectorand I so this is right.
After I start up, like 30seconds or less after I start up
(14:18):
, I'm looking basically enginestarts, I'm looking for oil
pressure, make sure everything'sgood.
Quick scan, set my DG or myheading indicator and fuel
selector valve on the fullesttank.
So I do that.
We get taxi and we weren't evenmoving yet right.
So we get moving and taxiing.
It's a pretty short taxi butnot like the runway's right
(14:41):
there and I do a run up magcheck, carb heat test,
everything's good.
Check oil pressure, gain, oiltemperature and then I bring
from 2000 RPM, which is where Idid the mag check and the carb
heat test.
I bring the power back and idlejust to make sure it will idle.
I want to make sure it's a goodidle and that's typically kind
of my sign that it's going to be.
(15:01):
It's warm enough for takeoff.
I'm not even registering muchoil temp yet.
So then, as I recommend to allof my students primary students
when you're going to go, do yourfirst flight of the day,
basically treat that takeofflike a maximum performance
takeoff If you haven't flown ina while, and the airplane's sad
(15:23):
this that the other thing.
So I do a static.
Brakes are set.
I'm holding the brakes.
We're on the runway now linedup to takeoff.
I do a full power check gauges,brakes release, get rolling
down the runway, get about torotation about.
I saw about 50, 55.
I mean I had already startedpulling engine quits.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Really.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
In a light coming.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Yeah, well, that's what I thought, because my
family's sitting right behind meand I noticed, as I brought the
power back from full to idle sothere's somebody in the pattern
I mean I can't.
I can't really like spate, likeI'm not good at storytelling,
so that's why I suck.
But so when I know there's abananze in the pattern, but in
(16:08):
the moment the engine justfailed, I'm coasting down the
runway.
You know, 50 miles an hourprobably.
By this point I'm trying tothink okay, it just rained a
shitload of rain.
I don't want to take this thingoff the side of the runway
cause it's going to get stuckand cause it's low spots on both
sides.
So I'm thinking this guy'sgoing to and it's pretty, it's
strong out of the north on thisday.
I'm just doing so.
I know they want to use thisrunway.
(16:30):
I don't want to ditch it in theside of the, off the side of
the runway.
But I noticed when I bring itfrom idle or from a full power
to idle that the engines kind ofdoes like a little, like a
little hiccup, and picks uppower again.
I'm like what's going on there?
So I jam it in again and theaccelerator pump squirts fuel
back in.
(16:50):
So I basically acceleratorpumps, I just I'm just running
throttle open and closed to keepthe engine at least turning
over, to give me enough thrust,and I mean I'm, I'm really
working this, this throttle, tokeep enough in our RPM in to
give me thrust to get off therunway at least so I get clear
of the runway.
And it was pretty pretty longrun, um, probably, like I don't
(17:11):
know, maybe 3000 feet to the tothe first turn off.
So I get there and the fuelselector rattled, not
necessarily too off, but offenough that it was.
It was so when I reset it inthe detent it was off just a
little bit.
It was a brand new fuelselector.
(17:32):
I mean, I've flown the airplane, it's been flown several times
since the fuel selector wasinstalled, but it's really I
don't want to call loose, it'svery fluid.
It's the way I want it to work.
But I just wasn't precise enoughin my placement of it when I
put it when I did my fuel fuelproper tank and it was on the
proper tank.
But I always like move it andthen move it back.
I don't know why I do that,maybe I shouldn't do that, but I
(17:55):
liked that.
I like to make sure that it'sin the detent, but in this case
it was just off enough and itrattles off of that detent.
Um, just enough, somewhere oranother.
Or I bumped it and uh cut outand it's just like the simplest,
the stupidest, simplest thingyou know could have got me.
(18:16):
What if that would havehappened a minute later?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
a minute later.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, 30 seconds later.
So it's like one of thosethings, all these things go
through your mind and it's likea such a freak like uh
occurrence.
But it could have been a freakaccident.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
You know it's really, really crazy.
So do you all get back in theplane and take back off.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
We never got out of the plane.
I was very confident.
And then what I did is I did alonger once I got it firmly and
I wiggled it both ways from thedetent to make sure I was like
firmly in the in the detent, um,better than I was the first
time apparently.
Um, firmly in that detent, no,sloppy, either side was, it was
perfect.
Um, then I did another fullpower run up, did another mag
(19:03):
check, no, another car Pete andI let it basically run at like a
thousand RPM for I don't know,probably 45 seconds to a minute,
guessing.
Um, I was confident that thethe fuel lines were, everything
was fine.
So it's just the time it tookfrom when I started up the
engine to taxing out, even doinga mag check, uh, and then doing
(19:25):
a full power run up, checkinggauges and then brakes release
and then get all the way to 50miles an hour going down the
runway and all of that wasthat's what the fuel that was in
the line.
No-transcript.
I guess, I don't, and I guess Idon't know when it rattled fully
from just off the detent to offenough to quit the engine.
I guess I don't know when thathappened exactly, but I'm
(19:49):
assuming it's when I placed itNot firmly enough in the detent.
Shortly after that, you knowfrom the taxing, the vibe like
bouncing and harmonics of thetaxi, I think, is what I
presumed it.
But I don't know for a fact.
So I guess I don't know whenthat is, but in my mind I'm
thinking that it happened aroundwhen I placed it, thought I was
(20:10):
placing it in the detent and ifthat's the case, I mean it's
probably a solid two minutes.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yeah, you probably go two minutes after you shut the
fuel off, I would imagine.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
But a lot of that two minutes was already at a 2000
rpm for the run.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Taxing.
And then I did a full powerstatic run-up on the runway and
Then went to 50 miles an hour.
Yeah so that's a fair amount offuel consumption.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Your wife wasn't concerned about taking off after
that.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Oh, she's like we're good, right.
It's like yeah, yeah, okay,Nicole would have been.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
She went out of that plane and never back in it again
.
I'm glad it didn't happen toher then.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
It was.
Normally I would have been alot more like, hey, we need to
look at this thing, all thatkind of stuff.
But I was so sure because whenI grabbed that fuel selector and
I'm like, when I looked at itthere, because there's a little
bit of that parallax error LikeI can kind of see the line where
the detent would be, and I'mlooking at it because you're,
you're high above it and off tothe side in a pipe or it's on
(21:15):
the left side wall and I'mlooking at it.
I'm like man that looks On likeon the line, so I take it and I
just give it a little bit ofpressure back towards line
because, click, I'm like you gotto be kidding me, you got to be
kidding me.
And so then, and then of courseI was, I did a longer run-up
(21:38):
and a high-power run-up and allthat stuff.
Again, it gave it a solid 45seconds to a minute at idle,
just to make sure, as best Icould, that everything was good
and I was pretty confident Ifound the source.
If I didn't, if I wasn'tconfident that I found the
source, I would have treated itcompletely different.
Let's take it back.
Carb.
Look, you know, prime, makesure the primer system isn't,
(22:00):
you know, bleeding in there,like I had no idea at the time.
And that's just one of thosethings like I can talk, we can
talk, everybody can talk about,like what you do when, and it's
like I used the accelerator pumpto get enough fuel Out of the
fuel bowl or whatever to getwell, that's the primer I guess.
But I used, I used theaccelerator pump to keep the
(22:20):
engine running, to get clear ofthe runway, like I didn't think
about like In the air.
You know I typically teach likea flow.
You have an engine failure,carby mixture, primer fuel,
proper tank.
Those are kind of your bigticket items.
I didn't think any of thatstuff.
I didn't think any of thatRollin and I'm on the ground.
I'm already on the ground Aboutas safe as safe can be, all
(22:42):
things considered in.
None of those things cross mymind.
And maybe if I had the from thetime it happened, the time I
got off the runway, I Couldn'tput it in seconds for you but
quick.
But if you're in the air andmaybe you actually have more
time to diagnose in the, I mean,I guess you do, but depending
on when it happened.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
I mean it happened.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
You might have checked that if you had, or a
2,000 feet and that happened.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Yeah, you definitely want to get the engine running
more than solve a problem if youwere, or anywhere Other than
like right after takeoff.
I feel like you'd have time tofigure that out.
But if you're, if you're 100feet off the ground, you're not
fine.
In that you're not, you're nottroubleshoot at that point, yeah
.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
I mean, you're just looking for somewhere to ditch
that thing at that point right,right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
And then and that's somewhat the mode, unfortunately
, that I was in Because I hadthis order, I had limited
options, kind of there's a guycoming in in a bonanza and it
was a wet off both sides.
I couldn't just ditch so and Iguess it doesn't really matter,
like what I really did.
But, um, my thought was I needto get this thing off the runway
(23:53):
so this dude can land.
That was like my only thought.
And me, you know, I don't know,but it's just weird how you can
talk about all these thingsthat you plan and in you and you
chair, fly and whatever, andthen when something happens, and
then when something happens inthe moment, how much of that
knowledge is just like whatever,I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna
(24:15):
meet the need right now and notgo through all of these steps
Like you guys are saying, rightafter takeoff.
You're just gonna land on thatgolf course, hopefully, or
whatever is right there.
You know that farmers field, soyou were taken off to the north
.
Okay, so what would you havedone?
Speaker 3 (24:32):
a clip here, so you're at 100 foot.
Um that one I mean.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah, so it would have been Basically try to get
it back down.
If not, I would have tried to,like knife, edge it back over
and land, uh, to the west.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Wow.
Yeah, all it all would havesucked.
At that point like you'rebasically, but then I would have
looked awesome this way, I justlooked stupid.
If I would have pulled that offat 100 feet, have an engine
failure and then land on theother runway, then I'd look
awesome.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yeah, if they.
If it went to that point, Iwould just turn the fuel valve
back on and then be like I haveno idea, it just quit on me, you
, because you don't want to belike oh, I had the fuel off, you
know that's yeah, that'sembarrassing, so you'd just be
like yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I have no idea, I think.
So I talked, like you know themechanic was working on it and,
like we had, he's like, oh, Isaw that all happen took three
years off my life and I'm likeit's not your fault, it's just
it's like it functions the wayI'd want it to.
It functions like it's a welloiled, you know piece of
Mechanical thing.
It's not this old clunkyplastic Fuel selector and like a
(25:42):
newer piper.
It's a solid metal handle andthe fuel valve works really,
really great.
But the only issue with thatthat I found, which I will now
be more careful about, is thatit is you need to be very
precise in your placement.
As soon as it clicks to thatdetent, you're done.
You know you're absolutely doneand make sure that it's there.
But I learned and Thankfullynot the hard way, um, you know,
(26:08):
of how that one feels now andhow it, I guess, functions, and
maybe one of the pitfalls ofbeing so it just feels like
lubricated, I mean it just feelslike a very good Free movement
which I, which I like you thinkthat's how they felt originally.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
It's just now.
They're all so old, the oneswe're using that man, I, I don't
know.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I've never felt any fuel selector valve that has
felt as free moving as this onedoes.
I like it, but that's somethingto I mean.
I guess that needs to bethought about.
You know, yeah, I, it's notlike.
I feel like if you had itfirmly in the detent and go
through your turbulence, that'sgoing to go to off.
I'm not in fear of that at all,but it is a very solid.
(26:52):
I mean I, I now I don't want togo like Anything past, like as
soon as that, like Get it movingand then almost have no
pressure on it so that when itstops, like put no effort into
it, so that when it stops, whenit clicks into the detent like
your, it's got enough resistanceto your hand stops.
I don't know how to really tosay that, but it's I just you
(27:15):
can't put any real muscle intoit or you could easily take it
past the precise detent and itwould turn off.
I don't know, it's scary.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it opened myeyes, that's for sure.
The other question is.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
You said you pulled on the runway, held the brakes
and then released them.
You taught me not to do it thatway.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
You on a soft field takeoff.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
So what's the difference?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
well, you don't want to sink into the mud.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
I was on a concrete, okay, but Either way, I still
feel like If you pull down tothat runway and kept your speed
going as you added the power,full power you're gonna be
better off than stoppingbreaking full power.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
So okay, so if you are an out, if you are very,
performance.
If you're performance limited,yeah, in the case if your
performance limited and younormally suspect your engine and
everything's gonna be fine.
Your best case scenario is yeah, keep the momentum, especially
in your case where you're kindadoing a 180 degree turn and then
going.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
You and I actually tried it both ways in the 150,
because I did the brake holdthing and you said, no, I don't
do it that way.
And we went and did it both.
I don't know if you rememberdoing it, but yeah.
The rolling start definitelyworks better than holding the
brake.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yeah, you're taking five or so miles an hour into
your takeoff roll that youordinarily have.
This case not having obstacles,not really.
You would be 90% of the timecorrect.
That would give you theshortest takeoff roll and I mean
(28:56):
without getting out anysignificant scientific measuring
equipment and stuff, I'm prettysure that's the quickest way to
get off.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Is the rolling start.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
The rolling.
Yeah, I'm sure there.
I'm sure somebody can Google itand they'll find stuff that
says otherwise, but done in alot, I've always felt that's
been the best.
In this case, I wanted to makesure since this airplane doesn't
get flown regularly, I wannamake sure I got a good scan on
the engine instruments that wasdeveloping full RPM, oil
pressure, oil temp, all thatgood stuff.
(29:26):
That, in this case, was moreimportant to me than every
single inch or second off theground, cause you and you're
like, what you and I weredemoing is like I only have 1500
feet and I got an obstacle offthe end.
How am I gonna do this Me?
I had 4,000 feet with noobstacles, so like I treated it
(29:49):
differently, really better, yeah, no, and yes, your way, the way
you're describing, I think,would have been better for me
getting off, but the the-.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
The thing you would think, the thing you would think
it off sooner, yes, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
and I mean, and if I did, I would think I would have
had it that way.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Yeah, even if you were 10 foot off the ground, you
probably would have had it onthe front later.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, you don't wanna get in that
position, but yeah.
So that's just the most recentexciting thing that's happened
to me.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, that rattled me yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
I don't know that it would, because I wasn't that
rattled.
I'm more upset with my I amtrying to self-diagnose that why
I didn't go through kind oflike the normal steps Now.
Granted, I was actually doingsomething, so my faculties were
much more constrained than theywould have been.
(30:46):
I think, like in the air, youhave a little bit of time.
The emergency or the only thingyou need to do then is try to
get the engine running, becauseyou have some altitude to play
with.
Once you're kind of donediagnosing or trying to get the
engine started, you're on towhere can I put this thing down?
I didn't have any of that, likeI had very limited outcomes.
(31:09):
I wanna get this thing clear ofthe runway.
I, kind of by happenstance,found a way to do that and if I
didn't I was gonna stop on therunway.
Those are the only two options.
And when I brought the throttleidle I gave a quick look at car
pee and mixture.
I did do that, but I didn't gothrough a check to prime or
check to fuel proper tank.
(31:30):
I didn't do all of that againCause in my mind I had already
done that.
Like that should be good, but Imean it wasn't.
It was the fuel proper tank wasthe issue.
I'm so confident and I changednothing else, but I heard that
click and I knew like, oh yeah,that was definitely it.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Scary there.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
I get scared as I'm on takeoff and like I hit a bug
or something.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Like like just a wind hits the plane.
Man, the more time I spend outof piston anything, if they're
running perfectly fine, that'sstill not as smooth as a turbine
engine.
So, like my mind invents whatwas that, you know what was that
?
What was that?
Speaker 3 (32:08):
That's all I am, just cause I don't fly enough.
It's like, what was that?
You know?
Yeah, right, right, Does thatsound right?
You know?
It's like.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah, is that normal?
Is that normal?
I haven't heard that in a while.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
I've fly this thing like twice a year.
Is that how it normally sounds?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Right, you know, mm-hmm, yeah, then you go over
like open water.
You go night.
I wouldn't go at night.
It's like there's all kinds ofnew sounds and you go flying
airplane at night, I wouldn'tdare fly at night right now.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
That's terrifying.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Seems like it's going to force that screen.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah, dan, this was just this weekend.
This was Friday last Friday.
This coming Friday.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I was going to have the clock on there, but it's.
I don't want to.
It's just going to take overthe screen, it's not going to be
good.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
It did, it did.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
I'll just yeah.
I agree, Taking your headsetoff is terrifying If you aren't
used to flying that way.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Well, yeah, we did a how many first hours with Dan,
Right with Don.
Yeah, he didn't want us.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
We didn't wear headsets Cause he wanted us to.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Yeah, when I did my private, I'd never wore a
headset my whole time.
Do you remember doing like yourtowered stuff with no headset?
Yeah, I don't even know how Idid not bust anything Like.
I hope he's telling me what Iwant to do.
Yeah, cause I'm going to go dothat.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
I remember like First flight with the headset was the
.
It was great.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Right after I got my license, check ride private.
Yeah, check ride, cause wenever, we never used them.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, All those old guys that knows.
Remember, for the islands theyhad those super flimsy telex Yep
.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Yep, just a foam cover, almost like a walk man
with a mic.
Yep, those things yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Oh, my dad loves those things.
I can never do that.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
No, I don't want to go deaf either.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah, I'm yeah.
I don't need any help in thatdepartment.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
All right, let's kick off the episode.
You guys got your Detroit taxidiagram up.
I got to.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
I got to pretend to be Detroit ground and I didn't
know we were going that nuts,but yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
I will absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Well, yeah, you're going to be in the general
aviation area of the ramp whenwe start the episode here.
Scott.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
And then I got to try to figure out how to be air
traffic controller and get youto PCW.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Well, once you're out of my airspace then my job's
done.
You just got to do the comms toget back to PCW.
But you start the East Dangeneral aviation at Detroit,
KDTW.
I just went to Air Nav andpulled up the diagram.
They got a link for it.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Oh, this is exciting, I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
You see, the general aviation area is that.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
I mean, yeah, I go in there.
What's the?
Speaker 1 (34:40):
what are the current winds, lee, if you could pull
that up.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I mean current winds.
No, why don't you, why don'tyou have Scott do this?
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Okay, I don't know, scott Scott's struggling to pull
up there.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Yeah, I'm still trying to find them.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
I just went to sky vector.
That's what I did.
Here now would probably bebetter.
Okay, well, I'll help thisalong.
So the winds right now, detroit, all right.
So we're East Coast, so it'sthe 20th day of the month, so
I'm looking at a METAR line ofcode right.
KDTW Detroit, wayne County, is202253Z.
(35:18):
So what that means is the 20thday of the month, june 20th, and
it's 2253Zulu.
So we're East Coast time, it'sEastern, it's daylight savings
time right now.
So we're a minus four.
So 2253 minus four is 1853 inmilitary time and I hope most
(35:40):
people know military time.
So that's 653.
Pm was when this came out and itsays 52 minutes ago.
So that stands for reason here.
Then now it's 11012, gusting 19knots Says 10 miles, 1010 SM,
and then SCT stands forscattered 050, which is 5,000.
(36:03):
So that's in what I call flightlevel format.
So it's a three digit code foryour altitude.
So zero, that was zero, beingthe tens of thousands, and then,
in this case, the five being5,000 and then the zero again
being hundreds.
So 10,000s, thousands, hundreds.
(36:24):
I don't even know if I'm sayingthat right, but that's pretty
much what it means.
So it says scattered 150,that'd mean 1,500, 15,000 feet.
Or if it was 005, that would be500 feet, so that'd be an IFR
day.
Today is scattered 5,000,beautiful day here, 28 degrees
Celsius, ooh and oh.
While we're here, if I may, aquick conversion for Celsius
(36:48):
Quick, 28 times two.
So that's 56 plus 30 is 86degrees.
It's about 80, probably about84 would be my guess.
But take your Celsius valuetimes two, add 30.
And that gets you close.
If you wanna be like prettymuch right on it, add 30,
(37:11):
something too bold I do saythat's 220,000 to 5,000.
At 30, then subtract 10% ofyour original value, which would
be 2.8 degrees.
That should be like almostperfectly on.
Is that all right with you guys?
Did that make any sense at all?
Speaker 1 (37:27):
A little bit.
I'm just aiming in the chat now, so I just laugh at that.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Okay, what's going on ?
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah, let's start the episode then, oh okay, I
thought we had.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Okay, I'm sorry, I'm just gonna do the just shut up
about aviation shit, I guess.
Yeah, oh I just that's good.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
What are you drinking now, leigh?
Speaker 2 (37:47):
This is a.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
What's everybody drinking?
Yeah, yeah, I mean people,they're already checking in
telling us what they're drinkingBlueberry wine.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Who's drinking blueberry wine?
You are.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
TV Briggs 95, scrambling to get his beers.
This is a while ago.
He's probably got his beers bynow.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, good, yeah, yeah, go back, because, yeah, I
missed so many.
I saw cigar somewhere, that'sawesome.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Aviation Mike is a show prepping with screwball,
peanut butter whiskey.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Oh yeah, I did see that too, which I've never had,
but I've heard people like Imean people I kind of trust say
how awesome it is, so I do needto try that sometime.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
JC aviator is enjoying a cigar and monkey
shoulder scotch whiskey.
I've got a captain Coke goingbut I only have one little mini
can, so I just had to make therum extra strong because I only
had a little bit of Coke to fillthe rest of the glass.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
And that's the way it should be.
Anyways, rob, like we need toget you to straight rum.
That's my goal for you.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
If it's higher end they'll do it Like on my buddy
he just had like a I forget howmany year age, just like the $80
version of Pilar.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Right, I remember you telling me about this.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
The cap got a little chain Now this is like two days
ago.
I haven't talked to you sincethis, oh, okay.
It was over the weekend.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
So it was another story, fantastic, another great
bottle.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
I just throw in a splash of Coke in there.
It was all it needed.
Why would you even do that?
Just, it disrupts the taste alittle bit.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Rum is not like whiskey, it's there's plenty of
people that probably drink rum.
Oh sure yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Okay, but it just it takes a little bit of that angry
bite out of the rum you justthrow like a small splash of
Coke in it.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Yeah, okay, well, I guess continue if you want.
Oh no, let me, I guess let meanswer Scott's question.
So this is a crush worth ease.
What is called by Great LakesBrewing Company?
It's called a low-cal citruswheat.
It's not bad.
It's kind of like a same AdamSummary, which I like too.
It's an ale with orange andlemon.
What I like about it it's only4% alcohol, so you can just like
(39:47):
you can slam them.
Yep, that's the plan.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
You at home right.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah, new house though you know, so it's a
little bit of a differentscenery yeah, it's a little
background looks different.
Yeah, I mean work in progress,yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
All right, Okay, I'm gonna.
I'm, Barb was talking about howmuch you love the music when
the thank you again, Tyler, Barband Jared for helping us out
here with episode 135 and 136.
In there was mentioned how muchthey love the show.
I've decided I'm kind of sickof that.
So it's not going to be that.
(40:26):
I don't know what it is yet,I'm just going to choose stuff
at random.
So I'm not going to do intromusic, so we're just going to
yeah, we're going to start it.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Hold on, hold on.
I'm going to ask my dad.
Thanks, bailey, still Don'tthink he brings it regularly,
but he does enjoy it If onoccasions it is one of his
favorites.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
JCAviator, yes, we did.
Plantation room Andreas got usa bottle that we drank last
summer.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
That's a good one.
That is a good one.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, that was a good one.
All right, three, two, one.
Okay, we're just X off thatclock.
(41:23):
Somebody said something here.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
So many things.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
There's so many stuff going on the chat.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Are mine sending twice?
It's showing twice on mine.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
You're what.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
You're like my responses in the chat.
I don't even see your responses.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
I don't see your responses either.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Oh, more right rudder .
Oh, that's you.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
I had no idea that was you.
No, okay, yeah, no, it's justshowing one.
I should have.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
I guess I'm an idiot.
I didn't even really think thatnobody knew what that was.
Okay, yeah, that makes a lotbetter sense.
Um, so to answer, uh, Ian saidLee, what do you say when the
active runway is for?
Is runway four?
Left down when four forward?
You just say, or do you sayrunway?
So you're trying to ask me sothat because there's not four,
(42:10):
four like two, two, two, numberfours I don't tend to say four,
ever like F O R.
I'm very robotic in my myphraseology.
So in this case, uh, left downwhen four, whatever the runway
is, it's zero.
(42:32):
Four would be nice way to breakit up.
If you want to add the extraword for there, which I know a
lot of people do, I don't.
You don't need you to tell meit's a runway.
I know you're laying on arunway, I don't need you to tell
me extra stuff.
Um, the only exception I reallymake for that is I like to make
the left or the right asappropriate.
I do like that and I know thatcan add up to frequency
congestion.
(42:52):
I think it's worth it for acouple of reasons, the main one
that comes to mind right now.
Let's say you have an aircraftthat is a student pilot or a low
time pilot who is used toflying at an airport where it is
right traffic, some of therunways, all the runways, half
the runways, whatever, and theyare looking and they're setting
(43:17):
up their their spot on the inthe run up pad, whatever to
account for that.
I think just saying left islittle effort as it takes to
just say left.
Obviously if you're changingwhat you say, that is a lot more
effort than for me, which I'vealways started just saying left
or right as appropriate.
But I understand for somebodyto change that is a lot more
effort.
(43:38):
But the little effort whenyou're teaching somebody correct
phraseology and I'm not sayingthis is correct because it's my
way, I'm just saying you addressa lot more a wider swath of
potential conflicts If you justsay left or right all the time
as appropriate.
That's just my opinion, Becausethere's people out there that
(43:59):
don't give any thought to oh,not every runway nine is right
traffic.
Some of them are left.
That's weird, you know theyjust, even though we all know
the default is left.
Just, some people just get intheir mind and I just feel like
reinforcing that.
It's just, it's too easy not tojust say it in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Yeah, I suppose D4, he said there's a Ford Tri-Pacer
.
I think he meant Tri-Motor.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Tri-Motor.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
I would imagine.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Maybe I don't know exactly what he's saying.
Ford Tri-Motor from Portlandjust spent four days here at
Fred I think that'sFredericksburg or Fred Frederick
, I guess, I don't know.
Very cool, I don't know exactlywhat he's saying.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
Yeah it sounds like the Ford the Tri-Motor is based
at Portland.
Did he ride on it?
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Like what's I guess, what's the I don't know it's
about four days.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
there Could be a Tri-Pacer.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, you don't know, you don't know either Scott,
that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
I don't know.
I don't think Ford made theTri-Pacer Probably not.
Probably not.
It wouldn't run very good ifthey did.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
Be the best Tri-Pacer or a Bill.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Yeah right, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, I was thinking
Fairchild.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
I would have said look up the tail number of that
one, but it's Tri-Pacer sothat's irrelevant.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Right, I see a runway .
See, people don't think I justinadvertently ended the
transmission early, but onlywhen landing on runway four.
I had, but, jared, I had moreright rudder way before, like
when rumble started.
(45:44):
I probably couldn't go get thatnow if I wanted it.
You know I had this for you.
I've had this for years,literally.
Yeah, I don't know we're goingwith that, but yeah, I, I keep
it simple.
So in the case of a runway forzero, for whatever one, for I
guess that doesn't matter, butlet entering left down when, for
(46:05):
Whatever name your report, poorClinton, they don't have a four
.
But if you punctuate it, theyknow that you didn't end your
transmission.
And I think it's more importantto punctuate at the end of your
transmission their airport,because, again, that people tend
to not be listening or they'renot ready to listen at the
beginning.
So if you say Poor Clintontraffic, what was saying Baron
(46:29):
151 whiskey, whiskey, enteringleft down when for poor Clinton?
Obviously they had.
There was a enough ahead.
But when you start reallygetting close in and you're
really shortening it, thenpeople don't have the time to
really tune into what you'resaying to get the the big
picture.
So Baron 151 whiskey, whiskeyLeft base for poor Clinton.
(46:57):
I'm never, I'm never leavinganybody hanging.
I'm not adding a 4-4 run.
I'm not adding a left base 4-4Poor Clinton or poor Clinton
traffic 151 whiskey whiskey,left base 4-4.
Like I'm not doing any of thosethings I'm.
I feel like it's clean the waythat I'm doing it.
(47:17):
I don't know if it's landing,but I feel like it's cleaner.
Say at the beginning, at leastfor the first few transmissions,
if it was a TC, let themshorten it.
Then you can shorten it, but inlieu of a TC being involved,
wait till you're probably.
You know if it's a beautifulSaturday, yeah, you probably
need to start shortening itearlier or you won't even be
(47:38):
able to your edge your word inedge-wise, and it's just gonna
be muddy and nobody, it doesn'tmatter.
I mean everybody's situationalawareness and Spatial
orientation of everybody else inthe traffic pattern is like
stupid, nothing but squelchingand crazy.
People are yelling on the radio.
(47:58):
Yeah, I mean, if everybody wereto just shorten stuff and give
me this short and the sweet.
If you're at an airport whenyou know there isn't you've been
in the pattern for an hourBeating up the pattern with a
student you don't need to makeevery call.
I mean, it's like I Get whatyou're doing, but look at the
big picture.
You are muttering.
If you're on the one twenty twopoint eight, or one twenty
(48:20):
three zero or 2375, 227,whatever it is, you know one of
those frequencies.
It's a busy Saturday.
Use your head.
If there's nobody else around,you don't need to make every
call.
Maybe make a downwind, maybemake a final pick one.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Just use your head because there's people Only do
the downwind, unless it's like abusier airport but See if I
doing laps in a pattern.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Just they have.
They're listening to the radio,they have the situational
awareness of what's going onmore than anybody else.
Bingo, so they yeah, they cancut some stuff out and yeah,
safety's not compromised.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
Exactly, there's a.
So you're talking about anairplane that has one
theoretically high time, wellexperienced and in verse and
kind of there the day-in-day outflying stuff at there, that the
airport they're at probably orthey wouldn't be doing laps in
the pattern, and there's twopilots to boot.
(49:26):
So it's like if there was acase for somebody, two sets of
eyes, intune with the bigpicture, if there was a case for
somebody to not make everyradio call that's pretty much
yet Um.
So it's like, use your bestjudgment if you're trying to
install these, these reallyrobust Core skill sets, best
(49:51):
practices, on a student or aclient.
I get that, but on the otherside of that, what Instilling
best practices in them and andusing common sense is equally as
important, I think yeah.
If you can't hardly get a wordin or you need to wait to get
(50:11):
that word in, that's kind of asign.
You need maybe evaluate yourtactic on this short in the call
sign and maybe just Not makeevery single call.
I don't need to hear an upwindacross, wind up, downwind, a
base in a final first off.
Those aren't required in theaim and and.
Speaker 3 (50:32):
Nothing.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
So even if the aim Lee, did you just say shorten
your tail number?
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Yeah, if you're in the pattern and you're in touch,
if you're making initial callup, it's.
I think it's good practice,whether it be your call and
seats half Getting in in in tunewith everybody in the pattern
or getting everybody in thepattern in tune with you.
Full call sign.
Type of aircraft full call signsame with ATC.
If you're just doing laps inthe pattern for an hour and
(50:59):
you're trying to knock out 30landings, shorten it up on most
of them.
If, if you and don't don't dohalf of them, that's one and
then the ones you do do, shortenit up.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Scott, you.
There's people who havemeaningful stuff to say, do you?
Speaker 1 (51:16):
do calls at your own airport.
Still, you said I got busierover the years.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
Yeah, I mean it is busier, but I don't do calls
here.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
You still don't do, I don't.
I don't think I've, unless Iknow somebody else.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
Yeah, if I know somebody's out, I can hear them.
Speaker 2 (51:30):
I, I did calls then that's the only time I've ever
ever did calls there, yeah it'sjust local now, yeah, I Can go
both ways on that kind of,because I feel like it's skills
just atrophy, not this sayingentering left downwind is that
(51:52):
much of a of a thing, but IDon't know.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Did you all the calls at North Pass in the winter?
I?
Speaker 2 (52:03):
Would say most of them really yep five, five south
inbound, you know.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
One of them.
Most of them.
I don't know if I would havedone most of them in the
summertime, little in the winterout there, but I never it's
it's.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
The thing is is what does it, god?
You guys see how much I talkhere.
I mean, like it's no effort forme to just key the mic and make
a call.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
So that's more of like just a boredom call just to
give yourself.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Well, you could look at it that way, but it's more of
like an integrity I'm supposedto.
I'm so Well when there's nobodyto hear it, which is half the
time well, you can hear it inyour own headset.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
What's that called the?
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Side tone side tone.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
Yeah, you got the side tone, so you, you can hear
yourself at least you know, yeah, I'll just key the mic up and
just talk to myself whole time,whole flight.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
No, I just.
I know I'm supposed to, so Okay.
I just do, why not?
Speaker 1 (53:04):
Scott, do you see now that a delta is busy or do you
see other people?
Are there more people doingcalls?
Because when we were wereteenagers, like nobody make
calls unless they were like fromout of town, come in or
something like you're asking me.
Yeah, do you hear people?
Speaker 2 (53:21):
doesn't fly.
Didn't hear my radio?
Speaker 3 (53:23):
Okay, I'm sorry last time I flew is with Lee, like I
don't know a while ago when wasthat?
I don't remember when that wasI need another flight review if
you get a chance.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Well, I'm renewing my CFI this month.
It's due in Eight days no.
So I got a lot on my plateright now, but yeah, I knocked
that out.
Don't let that lapse well, Iknow it's got not going to get
you.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
Yeah, do for it, he'll find a way for another
flight At least about that.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
Yeah, I Guess my point would be just like just if
you know that it's right,what's, what's the harm in just
making the call?
Speaker 3 (54:05):
I just I don't.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
It won't hurt your ears cuz you won't hear it, cuz
you don't fly.
Speaker 3 (54:12):
Cuz, I don't know how to fly.
Speaker 2 (54:14):
Well, that makes two of us, but I.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
That recorder.
We bought that the court.
We just got to get a recordernow to record all of your audio
and your plane, scott.
Speaker 3 (54:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
You start flying more and all of clips we can put in
the show.
I feel just like that beentertaining.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
It would be interesting, right yet a pull
one up as we talk about and belike, okay, what went wrong here
and you know whatever, and thenlet ATC chime in and it would
kind of reaffirm what went wrong.
Yeah, there's all kinds ofstuff.
I lost the chat.
My phone just died, so okay.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
We're gonna do a few more of these, probably remotely
, because my transmission blewup or else.
I was, it would have been inOhio right now, but we get up in
.
Ohio.
We got a really dial in that.
Scott, it's gonna be one of ourgoals to get your your airplane
recording everything like a,like a Cessna 150 black box,
(55:08):
just for show, show purposes.
And then, yeah, I just feellike you doing flight reviews,
just general, you flying around,I feel like there's gonna be
some.
Speaker 3 (55:20):
I need lots of dual before I do any solo work.
Speaker 1 (55:24):
Yeah, oh, geez.
Well, the dual will beentertaining, I'm sure Love Lee
put you through the ringer,whoever else you get, echol.
Yeah somebody will put youthrough the ringer.
Speaker 3 (55:35):
Echol blew me off.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
We'll have the audio clips blows me off.
We'll have the audio clips forthe show here.
It'll be good.
Yeah, I can put it.
I can put it in here in thebutton next to the bottle caps.
Speaker 3 (55:47):
We need to get some live ATC for 88 Delta.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
Yeah, there you go.
What's up, what's going on thechat?
Is there anything?
I get the 80s.
Speaker 3 (55:56):
I gotta go to bed.
It's late so I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (55:58):
Yeah, I got flying Bravo recorded.
Will make aviation podcast Hallof Fame stance good scene y'all
Later.
Speaker 2 (56:06):
Scott, good night.
Yeah, see man leave yourbrowser.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
Leave your browser.
Speaker 3 (56:11):
I don't need to, because it's already uploaded.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
Oh, that's true.
Speaker 3 (56:15):
Oh yeah, he's pretty up I remember I don't know like
what century you guys are livingin.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
But yeah, this, the internet gods have completely
changed, flipped.
Speaker 2 (56:25):
Yeah, scott has the fastest internet of the three of
us.
Now he's not in the, he's notin the mere station I'm the
death star.
He's on the death.
Speaker 3 (56:33):
I don't even understand people who don't have
fiber.
Yeah, how do you even?
How do you function?
What's it like?
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
Amen, amen.
Put the up finger emoji toTyler's comment.
Scott flying into Bravorecorder will make aviation
podcast Hall of Fame stance.
It's good stuff, we got to doit.
Yeah, we will, we will send youinto good, send you in and out
of Detroit for real.
Speaker 2 (56:58):
Yeah, you have to use your own sign.
Just stupid, though I'm gonnado any of you if our flying, but
yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
Alright, see man leave your browser.
Fiber you're only 99, will justsay it.
Anyways, it's just as soon as Ihit the hang up, it's gonna go
to 100%.
Leave your browser up and notat 100%.
Now it's not at 110% right now.
Speaker 3 (57:20):
What's you, what's yours?
That?
Speaker 1 (57:21):
I'm not talking, You're still talking.
Yeah, you're.
Where's that?
All three of us are 99?
Speaker 2 (57:26):
Oh yeah so what are you paying for?
You're paying for all thatGoogle or the fight the fire
front here.
Speaker 3 (57:32):
It's probably cheaper .
It's like $40 a month for fiber.
This is it's?
Speaker 1 (57:36):
free.
I'm not paying for this at all.
Speaker 3 (57:39):
No, it's nothing's free.
Okay, nothing's for your painfor somewhere, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
Go okay, bye Scott, we gotta go.
We gotta get some moreimportant stuff yeah.
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