January 12, 2025 • 33 mins
Ever wondered why a significant chunk of the farm bill is channeled into non-agricultural programs like food stamps? Join us on Farmer Talk as we challenge the conventional understanding of farm subsidies and reveal the hidden complexities behind this crucial legislation. Discover how crop insurance, deeply intertwined with government support, acts as a lifeline for farmers navigating unpredictable market waters. From historical practices like low-interest loans on stored corn to modern financial strategies, we explore the nuanced ways farmers have leveraged government programs to sustain their livelihoods.<br><br>Our conversation shifts to the broader spectrums of government involvement in agriculture, unraveling the intricate dance between market manipulation and farmer unity. Reflecting on the mixed sentiments surrounding subsidies during significant events, like the Trump-era trade war with China, we examine how financial assistance can both bolster and destabilize the farming sector. As we peer into other industries, learn how subsidies extend beyond agriculture, influencing sectors like railroads and oil, and consider the role of conservation programs like CREP and CRP in reshaping farming landscapes.<br><br>Finally, we delve into the realm of government conservation programs, examining their influence on farming practices and land use decisions. Explore the financial incentives that drive landowners to convert farmland into conservation areas, and consider the perception issues farmers face due to subsidies and fraud. With stories of crop insurance fraud in Missouri and the burgeoning trend of solar panels on farmland, we raise critical questions about sustainability and the future of agriculture. Tune in for a comprehensive look at the multifaceted world of farm subsidies, where we shed light on both challenges and opportunities within this ever-evolving landscape.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Well, we've made it to week two.
I think we're going to callthis Farmer Talk.
I haven't told you that, Iguess.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Farmer Talk.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Farmer Talk.
I think that would be a goodname for this show, podcast or
whatever you want to call it.
So today, as promised, we aregoing to talk about farm
subsidies.
So that's a pretty hot topicevery year.
Recently they were talkingabout passing some stuff for
some farm subsidies, for droughtrelief and whatnot, and every
time that happens we always getan influx of comments about it,
(00:32):
and some of them very hateful,some of them not as hateful, and
I figured we'd talk a littlebit about our stance on farm
subsidies.
So what a lot of people don'trealize the farm bill.
That term gets tossed around alot and a lot of people hear how
much money is in that farm bill.
Now, don't get me wrong.
There's things in that farmbill that do go towards
agriculture, but there's a lotof things in that farm bill that
(00:53):
have nothing to do withagriculture.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Majority of it, like food stamps, is a big majority
of it.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah, there's a lot of entitlements like food stamps
and other things that come outof the farm bill for some reason
, I don't know why, but that'swhere they've always been in.
So one thing that probably doescome from farm subsidies that I
know we take advantage of andabout everybody does is
(01:20):
insurance.
Farm insurance, like cropinsurance, is subsidized by the
federal government.
That's probably like the bigone that I can think of that
comes to mind.
That just yeah most operationsare using that.
Um, if they have crop insurance, they're probably using it.
Um, I don't know, farmsubsidies been a pretty big
thing probably since the 80s,haven't they?
Oh, before the 80s well, whendid they start?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
becoming a thing I know.
I can remember.
In the 70s Dad would take aloan on corn.
He had to set so many acresaside.
It was a set-aside program.
You set a few acres aside, theypaid you.
What much?
So is this the pick program.
No, pick was later.
Then.
(02:03):
That way you could take a loanon corn.
I remember loan corn like adollar, if at ear corn.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
So when you say take a loan on corn, I mean there's
going to be people.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
What it is is you put the corn in a crib.
Back then we had corn cribs butwe didn't have shell corn.
So you put it in a corn criband you went to the government
office or FSA and they give youa loan like a dollar of that
corn.
Well, you never got much out ofit.
A dollar and a quarter, adollar and a half was big back
then.
I don't know if the loan was adollar, it might have been less
(02:34):
than that but they'd loan you onlow interest.
Money is what it was.
You paid it back in nine months.
Every time you took corn Tamwhile you paid their part of the
corn back and you got whateverthe difference between the loan
price and the value of the corn.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So that's been going on that long.
Oh yeah, that's still a programtoday.
I mean, a lot of people stilluse that program today.
You've got a 40,000 bushel bin.
They'll give you about half ofwhat the value of that corn is
up front and then add later.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I think the loan's like $2.25, and corn and
soybeans is $6.30 maybe, or$6.25.
And what happens is now, ifgrain prices would have tanked.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
When he says $2.30 and $6.40, it means they're
going to give you $2.30.
A bushel in corn, like rightnow, that's today's like.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Then we take it to town and say we get $4 out.
We get the difference between$4 and two and a quarter,
whatever the loan price was.
The market tanks and it dropsbelow $2.30.
If it goes below that, if it'sbelow that time when the loan is
due, it's their corn.
You don't pay them anything.
It's their corn.
Say you get a dollar for theloan and it goes down to say it
(03:48):
went to $0.
90 cents.
You forgive the loan, theyforgive the loan, you got it.
But you know that not likely,that ever happened.
It has happened I have.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Does it happen?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
yeah, I've had it, one time I think, but we never
took a loan.
Me and your brother never tooka loan on our stuff back then.
We weren't in the program thatmuch, you and your brother, my
brother, me and my brother Johnwas my older brother's farm with
me and we never took a loan onthat back then, hardly ever took
a loan on it.
Okay, but a loan just frees upyour operation to cash flow.
(04:18):
You take it out in the fall.
We always hold our crop untilApril or spring or more later,
so you don't have any cash flow.
If you take a loan out, thenyou've got some cash flow.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
But that is subsidized by the government to
keep that interest rate down.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, the interest is lower.
I don't know what it is today.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
It used to be like 1% didn't it?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, that was the last couple of years, a few
years ago, but now I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
It's 3% or so, but it's less, and way less than you
can go borrow money for.
So in the 80s like I alwayshear people talk about how bad
things were in the 80s, whichlooks a lot on paper like now
High interest rates, low yields,low prices Did farm subsidies
really amp up then?
Do you remember?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Well, they had to pick years.
Describe what the pick yearsare.
I kind of forget how it worked.
You set so many acres aside andI don't know.
I mean did you fallow thoseacres?
Huh, Did you fallow them?
Yeah, you could work them, discthem or spray them.
Well, you, usually work, fallowand plant next year, but it had
(05:22):
to be so many acres.
And I remember one year Dad hadsome wheat set aside and had so
many acres set aside, you got acorn base and a wheat base.
It was just those two.
You didn't have a corn andsoybean base, but what that was,
you had so many acres you couldplant and over that you didn't
(05:43):
get no money, any subsidies orof any kind out of that.
Say, if you had 100 acres acresyou could plant and over that
you didn't get no money, anysubsidies or of any kind out of
that.
Say, if you had 100 acres youplant 200, you didn't get
nothing on 100 acres.
And back then they come out andmeasure the crop.
But I remember that one year itwas probably in the early 70s,
I think I was out of school, Ithink I know they had a guy come
(06:04):
out and measured the field andsaid we planted too much, like
two acres, so Dad had to tear itup.
Come find out he measured wrongand he was a teacher, my
basketball coach, yeah.
He wasn't the government he wasthere to help, but anyway he
(06:24):
couldn't figure it.
And the boy dad said I'll nevergo into the program and I don't
think he ever went into theprogram again.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
So when dad says the program Government program, so
to get any government subsidiesyou have to be in the program,
sign it.
So in my opinion, governmentsubsidies is a different way of
the federal government buyinginformation.
That's kind of one way I lookat it.
There are certain subsidies Idon't agree with.
I really don't like any of them.
But I think that they use thatto buy information.
(06:53):
For example, for that cropinsurance, to take out crop
insurance you have to certifyyour acres at the federal
government office, which is thefsa office.
If you ever see an fsa building, farm Service Agency, that's
what that stands for.
In order to get crop insurancewe have to go in there after we
plant.
They have maps of all of ourfields.
We tell them where we plantedwhat and when we planted it, and
(07:16):
that is how the government kindof gets a handle on trade
numbers.
They know how many bushels areout there per year based on how
many acres of corn were planted,and this is the average for the
last few years, because you'vegot to report that crap to your
insurance agent.
So that's kind of how I look atsubsidies.
It's just them buyinginformation.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah, and in the olden days it's not like it is
today.
In the olden days you had baseacres.
Like I say, you had 100 acresof base.
If you had 200 acres of corn,you didn't get paid for that.
And the biggest thing on that,how they?
How did that go away?
That was in the last 10 years.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Oh, that's went away, for I remember base acres being
a big thing.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
No, not like back then, because you had to prove
your yield.
You had to give them a yield.
They went by I believe maybe acounty average yield.
You couldn't prove your yieldsand our yield was never over 128
bushel, I think was the highest.
It was on corn and certainparts of the county got a little
higher and certain parts of thestate which had a little better
(08:16):
ground and we always complainedbecause we always rated 150
bushel corn back in the 80s, 90sand we'd had 200 bushel one
year.
We had 200 bushel one year.
We had 200 bushel field.
But you know they got paid onwhat your base acres was and
your base yield.
The yield they had gotcha, thewheat yield wasn't much at all.
It was terrible.
(08:37):
So you know, every time you Ialways felt every time he seemed
like you got something from thegovernment it's going to cost
you something Red tape you gotto go through Well, for one
other government subsidy.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
This is kind of switching gears.
When I built my bin and youbuilt one of these bins we used
a government loan.
So FSA office has governmentbin programs.
I remember going to farm creditand asking our farm credit
officer hey, I'm going to builda bin.
Going to farm credit and askingour farm credit officer hey,
I'm going to build a bin, I cansave more money from paying DP
charges in town than what my binpayment's going to be.
(09:11):
I think Can you guys help me?
And they actually told me to goto the farm service agency
because the lower renters, butthe amount of red tape that
comes with it, a lot of red tape.
Yeah, it's low interest, man,it's.
Sometimes you're like, is itreally worth it?
Because to get that loan, uhprocess I mean you're talking
(09:32):
six, seven months, whereas if wewere getting a loan from farm
credit for a grain bin it'dprobably take a couple days.
I mean, if that, yeah, it'slike you say, anytime you use
the government there's a lot ofred tape and there's a lot of
headaches usually.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
But the programs nowadays, the new farm bills,
it's just I don't know.
It's there to protect the guythat needs it, is it?
But you have a bad year,supposedly.
But I've seen a lot of times,or heard a lot of times, that
the people that's got big acres,there's a limit to it.
(10:09):
Well, there's ways around that.
I've heard of politiciansgetting big money.
They own farmland.
They shouldn't have got it, butthere's ways around it.
Whenever somebody's going togive you something or you do
something, something like thatsome way, somebody's going to
beat it some way.
You do something something likethat.
In some ways, somebody's goingto beat it some way and get more
what they shouldn't get.
But it's just, I don't know,it's just a lot of red tape In
(10:31):
your opinion?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
do you think that we'd be better off without the
government involved?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Oh, yeah, but it never happened.
They can't and I can understandsome.
They've got to project what thefood supply is going to be.
If we could control the marketit'd be dangerous.
We could do whatever we want todo.
That ain't going to happen.
We're going to town and weain't going to sell it to you.
(10:57):
There's always somebody that'sgoing to say I ain't going to
sell it to the elevator for lessthan $5 a bushel.
Well, somebody down the road isgoing to sell it to the
elevator for less than, say, $5a bushel.
Well, somebody down the road isgoing to give it to $4.
Farmers can't get together.
There used to be a union NFO, Ithink was the name of it.
They tried back in the 80s.
(11:18):
I believe it was Dad.
I remember he would go to someof the meetings and he joined it
.
Nothing ever happened, neverhelped anything.
They had a little bit of voice.
It was a lot less than the FarmBureau.
But I remember one guy the guywas a president of our county
(11:40):
had hogs, raised hogs.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
And this was his farm union.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
His farmer's union.
They wanted you to not raise asmany hogs or cattle or whatever
, not grow as many crops.
Trying to manipulate the price,trying to, but it never worked.
But this guy was gettingeverybody to do this, telling
everybody, and what's he do?
He buys more sows, raises morepigs.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
So the local market got affected.
He took advantage, yeah, yeah,and raises more pigs.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
So the local market got affected, he took advantage.
Yeah, yeah, and you know it'sjust hard to we, don't?
It's hard for us, and if thegovernment wanted to end it, I
don't know what would happen.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Well, that's kind of my.
I don't know that they couldget completely out of it.
No, they um.
I didn't realize that there wasfarm programs in the 60s.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I mean you're talking about ear corn and that had
been in the 60s.
Oh yeah, always been a farmprogram as long as I can
remember.
Now 50s, I don't remember that,I was just little little.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
So did you have to go certify acres?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Oh, every year you had to certify your acres Every
year, tell them what made.
But we could never.
It was hard to get our yieldsup up and that's what you got
paid on your base acres plusyour yield, and we was making
you know yield a lot more.
And I know neighbors down therehad him.
He got some raised when hestarted farming.
He got raised some way and somenot much.
(12:53):
But I think the highest yieldwas in Ross County, was there
might be 130 bushel and otherother counties was a lot more
than that 30 or 40 bushel,probably 30 bushel, 20 bushel, I
don't know, but it was higherthan ours.
Okay, so they did away with that.
I don't know when they did awaywith the acre yields.
(13:13):
Well, they let us prove them.
Now.
That's what they do.
But now when we certify theydon't ask for yields.
Of course you got it on thecrop insurance so they know what
we're got.
Yeah, our yields are.
Yeah, the government, they knoweverything about us.
They always aggravate me whensomebody call a survey.
The government's put themsurveys up.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
They know more about our business than we do yeah, so
when was the first time you canremember disaster relief
funding and?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
one year, uh, back in the, we was farming up salt
creek.
This would have been in the 80s, I know the creek got out bad,
like in crop.
Uh, before we planted it was inthe fall spring.
It brought in a lot of sand andthere was a program that paid
us for removing that sand.
We got a little bit fueledabout what it was.
(14:06):
It wasn't much but we did signup and it's nice for that.
And I think, like this year,the cattle guys, I think, got
some money for hay because itwas dry.
But it just helps a little bitto get you through maybe.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I mean, as far as making any money, you ain't
going to make any money unlessyou can figure out how.
But do you think it's right forthe government to give disaster
relief?
Here's my opinion.
Like I can remember, when Trumpwas in office and got in that
tariff war with China the firstTrump presidency in like 2016 to
2020.
And I can remember quite a bitof government subsidies that we
got those years.
I kind of had mixed feelingsabout that.
(14:45):
On one hand, I don't reallylike it when the government
hands out money because itcreates inflation.
Like I've stated before, Ithink it keeps people in
business that maybe didn't makegreat decisions.
But on the other hand, I thinkthe government had a direct hand
in keeping our prices low inthe trade war.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
So I kind of have a mixed feeling on that one.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
But what is subsidized nowadays?
That is another thing RailroadsOil.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Everything is subsidized.
I mean government stuff, I meanprivate stuff.
There's a lot of railroads, big, big time.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Well, there's a piece of track right here that I'm
fairly positive.
The only reason it still existsis because that railroad
company is getting money.
They get money.
Now, when do you remember CREPand CRP becoming a thing?
Because this I can rememberwhen CREP became a thing.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
It started in.
When would that have been CREP?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
I remember the late 90s, 2000, late 90s or 2000.
But CRP was before.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
That wasn't it.
Crp was always.
Yeah, that was the set aside.
They called it CRP, startedcalling it CRP.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
So for the viewers, if you don't know what we're
talking about CREP basically youenroll your acres into a
program called CREP.
I don't remember exactly whatit stands for now.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
It has to be along a waterway or a ditch.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
It has to be along a waterway or a ditch and you can
enroll up to.
I think it's $500,000 worth ofland, isn't it no?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Or is it $50,000?
There's a limit on it to$200,000, maybe dollar-wise.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Basically, the government is paying you to cede
that to a native grass speciesthat they say used to be here
and not farm it.
I don't like those programspersonally.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Some people manipulate it like everything.
You know, that's what it is.
Well, I can remember when theystarted doing that.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
They were paying $200 , $250 an acre and that was way
higher than rent was in thisarea in 2000.
And I can just remember I meanI'd been a 10 to 15-year-old kid
One of the neighbors put a farmin there and I'm thinking, man,
I'd love to farm that when Iget out of school, but there's
no way I can afford to outpaythe government for it.
And now CRP is that high no CRP.
(16:54):
I don't think $170?
.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Well, it's not $200, but this CREP program got up to
I think it's $400-some in someplaces.
Well, you know, we'd be kind ofcrazy not to put it in there.
But people who put it in thereare landowners who probably
don't farm it.
What it looks to me like.
And you know, if I farm andyou're out there a guy's farming
, what do you want to do?
(17:16):
You want to put it in the CREPland or you want to farm it.
You want to do.
You want to put it in the crepeland or you want to farm it.
You want to farm it if you makea dollar.
You want, you're going to makea dollar if you you know it's
just our nature to farm the land, till land or or tilling the
land, that's kind of anothersubject.
Yeah, that's hard.
You know no tills and we knowtill now, but that's hard to do
too.
But you know it's just, uh, theway things go anymore.
(17:37):
It's just, and I I don't thinkthere's a sign up for it now I
think it's pretty well.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I think there's enrollment periods when they get
enough acres covered.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, they get so many acres.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
CRP pretty much they'll take it.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
CRP?
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I don't know CRP is the same concept, except it
doesn't have to be by a waterway, and it doesn't pay as high,
it's just marginal ground, whatit is usually yeah but what I'm
saying is they're paying more anacre for marginal ground than I
want to try to farm it.
For example, we had a farm thatwe farm a field right beside it.
(18:11):
The lady asked would you beinterested in farming it?
Because it was in CRP.
We had bush hogged it for her afew times, asked if we'd be
interested or she was going tore-enroll it.
And of course we wereinterested and at the time I
think she was getting 70 an acrecr for crp, which in my opinion
, like I mean that ground was100 to 120 an acre land.
(18:33):
It was not good farm ground.
It's up on top of a hill, treesall around it, clay, easy way
to get to it.
I mean it was a $120 an acrefarm at best.
Well, crp was going to give her$165 or $175 an acre.
We're like, well, I think you'dbe crazy not to put it in there
.
It's just another instance thathappened to compete against the
(18:54):
government.
It's like, well, if theyweren't in this fight, well,
we'd be farming that 100 acreswhich would have been handy well
, we'd be farming that 100 acres, which would have been handy,
but it's kept prices, has itkept?
prices from going around?
Has it kept crop prices?
How many acres?
Has it kept land prices?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, I don't know how many acres are in it.
That's the big thing.
They say, Well, it's going togo to production, which is right
.
But what I don't understandevery year they say so many
millions of acres of corn areput out and beans.
It seems like it's always a fewmore of each.
Where's all this land comingfrom?
I mean, Ohio has lost acres andacres of development and the
(19:33):
factories.
And the factory and the solarpanels.
I don't know where they'regetting all these acres.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
I think in Ohio like 3% of farm ground is solar
panels.
It's terrible.
Which 3% doesn't sound like alot.
You're talking like 100,000acres, a couple hundred thousand
acres, probably several hundredthousand.
They don't want the bad ground,they put it on the good ground
and that's another industrythat's subsidized, all them.
Solar panels to me are a moneygrab.
It is some subsidized programwhere the government's paying
(20:00):
so-and-so to put this solarpanel out here.
They can't really prove it'sgoing to ever pay for itself.
That's a different topic.
Don't worry folks, we will talksolar panels one day, because
that is a subject that is verynear and dear.
It boils my blood prettyheavily.
But anyways, back to thesubsidy questions.
When was the first time thatyou can remember like a drought
(20:25):
year and then like they weretalking about doing this year
like a government?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
oh golly, I don't know we ever got anything for
drought in 99.
There wasn't anything.
I think there was something,but I I can't remember.
There was probably somethinglittle.
We never did get a lot of moneyI mean.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
So that is all public record yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I know and it shows that, yeah, but it don't mount
that much.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Don't mount that much .
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I think the insurance is a big thing Crop insurance.
I think the crop insurance isthe subsidy that everyone takes
at the age we never used to havecrop insurance and we just had
to start taking it.
Glad we had it this year.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah.
Now one thing about cropinsurance.
People always ask every timethey see, like when I post
pictures of our corn allshriveled up, well, do you guys
have crop insurance for that?
We do.
But it isn't like we're makingmoney when we're taking a crop
insurance claim.
I mean we would have been waybetter off to never have to
collect on crop insurance.
(21:30):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it'll keepyou going, but that's about it.
You're not really prospering inthat situation.
Prospering in that situation.
And the more times you file acrop insurance claim you get
paid, at least the way ourinsurance is on your average
production.
So we're insured, I think, at80% of our average production.
(21:56):
Well, if you start turningaverage production numbers lower
and lower and lower, you got tomeet a worse threshold every
time to get paid.
So one thing that helped usthis year we'd had to get paid.
So one thing that helped usthis year we'd had several good
years.
So we've kind of got our APH upquite a bit.
So that triggered a cropinsurance claim sooner than if
we'd had four or five years in arow of bad years.
So let's say we average 200bushel every year for five years
(22:17):
.
Well then, our APH is 200bushel.
Now we throw in five years of100 bushel per acre.
Well now, our APH is 200 bushel.
Now we throw in five years of100 bushel per acre, well now,
our APH is 100, and we've got toget to 80 bushel before we ever
get a crop insurance claim.
Well, at 80 bushel, you wentbroke a long time ago.
So I mean, at 200 bushel peracre, your crop insurance claim
(22:39):
or threshold there for us wouldbe 160.
Well, you can still.
That's a lot better situation,I guess, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Well it's.
There are people that's not inthe program and I wish we could
but anymore.
It's kind of a necessity.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
So one other thing, that those programs, like I said
, I think the government usesthem to buy information.
I also think they use it todictate how you farm.
We'll pay you such and suchdollars to change this practice
on your farm.
There's a lot of that.
There's a lot of programs atthe soil and water places and
the FSA that you can sign up for.
There's probably a lot ofpeople listening and watching
(23:20):
this that are familiar with whatI'm talking about and we've
been in those for a while.
That's the only reason that westarted doing cover crops is we
were basically being paid to bythe government.
Now, was it lucrative?
No, but we were basicallycovering the cost of planting
those cover crops.
Hopefully help the tilth of thesoil to planting those cover
crops.
Hopefully help the tilth of thesoil.
(23:41):
And that's the governmenttrying to.
You know, I guess trying toactively get other crop
practices out there by bribingyou pretty much.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
And now you know, the watershed at whatever they call
it up in Northern Ohio hasmoved down here where you've got
to put fertilizer in the ground.
Up there you've got to put itin the ground, you can't just
bulk spread it.
So, uh, and they're paying themsome a little bit, there's a
little bit of money out there todo that, because you gotta buy
equipment to do it.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
So and that's one of those issues where it's a
subsidy from the government, butthey're basically so.
I think if you strip till inthat area, they'll pay you up to
like 80 an acre.
I don't think it's that high,isn't it?
I don't know $50 an acre.
Either way, though, to buy astrip-till bar for most
operations is going to be about.
I mean, you're going to useevery bit of those dollars I
(24:29):
guess what I'm saying tore-equip yourself to be able to
meet government regulations.
That's a government subsidythat they put in place, but it's
because they kind of made youchange how you're doing things.
But I know the subsidy I hadseen or heard mentioned right
before Christmas was talkinglike $50 an acre on corn and
(24:55):
like $20 or $40 on beans, justto help with disaster relief,
and that's one thing.
I don't like, that personally.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah, I don't like it , but we'll take it.
I mean, like I say, everybodyelse gets subsidies, so it'll
help.
If it's there, we're going totake it.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
But I wish it wasn't.
There is what I'm saying, andone thing I really don't like
about it is the way that itmakes the general public view us
.
Yeah, and like, I rememberlistening to Senator Johnson
talk about this bill and he wasjust talking about how the poor
farmer's this and the poorfarmer's that and I was like man
, I got a little bit more pridein myself than to go cry in
(25:33):
front of a television beggingfor money.
I guess I just didn't reallylike how that made us look
personally.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, and, like I say , the biggest thing our guys
made about them is there'salways somebody beating the
system, getting more money thanthey should, and you know, you
hear a lot of things, but that'swhat happens.
That's the nature of it.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
A lot of fraud.
Yeah, a lot of insurance fraudtoo.
I mean, dad, you're not onTikTok, but there's a family on
TikTok in Missouri that they hada TV show.
I think they were called theMcBeads or McBeths.
I'm not super familiar with it.
In fact Randy the master pieplayer told me about it.
But it's this big familyoperation several thousands of
(26:12):
acres with other businessesinvolved, several family members
.
They got caught with amulti-million dollar crop
insurance fraud.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Well, years ago, back in the 70s, there was crop
insurance and there was a guyout here got caught in the other
side of town that what he wasdoing is putting the crop out,
not putting any fertilizer orchemical, and it was just.
He did it, I think, a coupleyears, maybe three years, and
they quit paying.
He didn't farm anymore andthere's.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
You hear all kind of things and see, I think these
people were manipulating theiryield maps and then hiding, like
, like, close to a millionbushels of grain.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Well, in pick years, that's what guys got trouble
doing some of that hiding grain,If something paid on your
bushels I don't remember how itwas, it was a mess, though I
know that.
Okay, it was a mess, but youknow, subsidies, subsidies,
everybody gets them.
It seems like Transit system intown and this and that.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Well, the roads are all subsidized by the government
.
And the same thing thetaxpayers, all the taxpayers.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
It's taxpayer money.
And the disasters.
California is terrible, that isterrible.
And what's going on out there?
That fire, oh man.
But you know we'll have to payfor that.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Well, I heard them say that the federal government
is going to cover 100% of thecost.
Yeah, that's what they'resaying.
Now, one thing that did strikeme as odd that whenever that
flood happened in the southernstates right before the election
, I don't believe that's howthat went down there.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I don't know.
It's just they don't pass themoney out.
They want to ship everythingoverseas.
I just wonder how many peoplefrom overseas are sending money
here.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I wonder how many people that are going to send
the money to overseas.
Actually see the money.
A lot of corruption in thisworld.
Yeah, a lot of corruption.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
But I don't watch the farm bill.
What they'll do in the farmbill, it's just they try to make
it so it's a I want to sayinsurance.
So if the price is tank, youknow, farmers got a little bit
to pay some bills.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I know personally we do not make business decisions
around government subsidies andfarm bills.
Personally, we do not makebusiness decisions around
government subsidies and farmbills.
We've never looked at it aswell if we don't get the subsidy
, we're not going to succeed.
This year it's always been like, if we get this $40 or $50 or
whatever this next round theywere discussing, if we get it,
yeah, we're going to use it.
It will ease a little bit ofstress.
(28:45):
Do we need it?
No, can we survive without it?
Yes, can we survive without it?
Yes, are we asking for it?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
No, yeah, I was kind of surprised when I heard they
were going to give it, but, likeI've always said, the Chicago
Board of Trade kind of rules us,whatever they say.
Whatever they say now, thereport came out the other day
and I guess everything's poppedup because of it.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Well, it'll be interesting.
So we're reporting this onSunday the 12th.
The report came out last Friday.
I would almost bet money thatMonday morning tomorrow there'll
be a market correction.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
I think it'll be a little correction, but I don't
think it'll say I bet there wasa lot of bushels sold.
I think it'll go up to a lot aquarter, 50 cents maybe at the
most corn, but the bushels ain'tthere that they thought there
was going to be.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Are you surprised with where the market is now?
I kind of thought it would besub $4.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Well, I'm good to honor there man.
We sold a little bit for lessthan $4.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
I figured whenever we were in harvest and it was
below $4, I thought $4 was goingto be the goal.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I remember the first time corn got up to $8 back
there whenever it was 2008's thefirst time I remember.
I remember hearing guys saycorn will never be below $4
again.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Well, a couple of years it was below $4, so you
never say never, but itfluctuates so much compared what
it used to, yeah, didn't,didn't fluctuate that much in
years, old years yeah, so in thepast, when you were younger,
like in the 70s 80s, do youremember people really making
(30:22):
that big of a deal about farmsubsidies or do you think the
general public, even there was athere was not a lot of people
Do you think they even knew itexisted?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Oh yeah, but there wasn't near as many people like
today.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
No, I mean like, when we post a YouTube video, we
don't get a lot of hatefulcomments, but we do from time to
time and it won't even be avideo about subsidies Someone
will comment that my tax dollarsare funding your farm and all
this crap.
I mean, was there that kind of,I guess, sentiment around?
Oh, I'm sure there was.
I mean, yeah I just I gotta feellike most like today.
(30:53):
I think more people are moreinformed today of what's
happening, but I think they'reonly half informed.
I think they get emotional whenthey hear that and they don't
really dig into why it'shappening or how it's happened
or the circumstances for itsometimes.
So hopefully we were able toshed a little bit of light on
our side of the story, I guess.
On farm subsidies, like I said,I wish they didn't exist, but
(31:17):
since they're here, we'll takethem if they hand them out.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, we'll definitely We'll take it.
Every time I go in the FSAoffice I ask them if there's any
checks for us, but most of thetime I say no.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
But I think when we get those subsidies, I mean I
feel obligated to try to makegood decisions with that money.
I mean I think if we got a$50,000 government check and we
went and bought a boat with it,that might not be the greatest
decision in the world.
And too many decisions likethat and you end up not farming.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah, the hardest thing would be if they quit
subsidies on crop insurance.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
That would be a game changer.
That would be detrimental.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
It'd be bad Because they pay a lot of.
I think, when you jump up to85% or 90%.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
It's unsubsidized after that and it like triples
the price of that insurance.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yeah and and we got some ground, it's river ground
is already doubled.
It's, uh, flood plain, so it'sit's almost doubled.
Yeah, what ordinary ground is.
But it'd be bad if we had topay that whole.
We couldn't afford it.
We couldn't afford it.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Yeah, there's something else I was going to
ask you.
I can't remember what it wasnow, something on the subsidy
side of things.
Well, I can't remember what itis now.
Anything else you want to talkabout, not?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
on subsidies.
Okay, I don't know what they'regoing to do.
What Trump will do on a farmbill, it's hard to tell.
I guess he's picked a ladysecretary, so I'll see how that
turns out.
I don't know.
We'll see how it turns out, yep.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Well, folks, be sure to tune in.
Next week this podcast will beavailable on all podcast
platforms as well as YouTube, socheck it out wherever you enjoy
listening.
Just search Farmer Talk and youshould be able to find it.
This episode will probably beon Brian's Farming Videos
YouTube channel for now, until Iget a channel set up for the
podcast, any other Farmer Talks?
(33:23):
When I searched it, I did notfind any on podcast platforms,
so we're going to capitalize andtake it, but next week I think
we're going to discuss equipmentinflation, unless a current
event comes up that we want tostart talking about.
So, yeah, be sure to tune inand we'll talk equipment and
inflation.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Or if anybody out there has an idea of what you
want to listen to or hear ustalk about, put it in the
comments or something.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yep.
Thanks for tuning in, everybody, and we will see you in the
next episode.
Well, we've made it to week two.
I think we're going to callthis Farmer Talk.
I haven't told you that, Iguess.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Farmer Talk.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Farmer Talk.
I think that would be a goodname for this show, podcast or
whatever you want to call it.
So today, as promised, we aregoing to talk about farm
subsidies.
So that's a pretty hot topicevery year.
Recently they were talkingabout passing some stuff for
some farm subsidies, for droughtrelief and whatnot, and every
time that happens we always getan influx of comments about it,
(00:32):
and some of them very hateful,some of them not as hateful, and
I figured we'd talk a littlebit about our stance on farm
subsidies.
So what a lot of people don'trealize the farm bill.
That term gets tossed around alot and a lot of people hear how
much money is in that farm bill.
Now, don't get me wrong.
There's things in that farmbill that do go towards
agriculture, but there's a lotof things in that farm bill that
(00:53):
have nothing to do withagriculture.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Majority of it, like food stamps, is a big majority
of it.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah, there's a lot of entitlements like food stamps
and other things that come outof the farm bill for some reason
, I don't know why, but that'swhere they've always been in.
So one thing that probably doescome from farm subsidies that I
know we take advantage of andabout everybody does is
(01:20):
insurance.
Farm insurance, like cropinsurance, is subsidized by the
federal government.
That's probably like the bigone that I can think of that
comes to mind.
That just yeah most operationsare using that.
Um, if they have crop insurance, they're probably using it.
Um, I don't know, farmsubsidies been a pretty big
thing probably since the 80s,haven't they?
Oh, before the 80s well, whendid they start?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
becoming a thing I know.
I can remember.
In the 70s Dad would take aloan on corn.
He had to set so many acresaside.
It was a set-aside program.
You set a few acres aside, theypaid you.
What much?
So is this the pick program.
No, pick was later.
Then.
(02:03):
That way you could take a loanon corn.
I remember loan corn like adollar, if at ear corn.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
So when you say take a loan on corn, I mean there's
going to be people.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
What it is is you put the corn in a crib.
Back then we had corn cribs butwe didn't have shell corn.
So you put it in a corn criband you went to the government
office or FSA and they give youa loan like a dollar of that
corn.
Well, you never got much out ofit.
A dollar and a quarter, adollar and a half was big back
then.
I don't know if the loan was adollar, it might have been less
(02:34):
than that but they'd loan you onlow interest.
Money is what it was.
You paid it back in nine months.
Every time you took corn Tamwhile you paid their part of the
corn back and you got whateverthe difference between the loan
price and the value of the corn.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So that's been going on that long.
Oh yeah, that's still a programtoday.
I mean, a lot of people stilluse that program today.
You've got a 40,000 bushel bin.
They'll give you about half ofwhat the value of that corn is
up front and then add later.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I think the loan's like $2.25, and corn and
soybeans is $6.30 maybe, or$6.25.
And what happens is now, ifgrain prices would have tanked.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
When he says $2.30 and $6.40, it means they're
going to give you $2.30.
A bushel in corn, like rightnow, that's today's like.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Then we take it to town and say we get $4 out.
We get the difference between$4 and two and a quarter,
whatever the loan price was.
The market tanks and it dropsbelow $2.30.
If it goes below that, if it'sbelow that time when the loan is
due, it's their corn.
You don't pay them anything.
It's their corn.
Say you get a dollar for theloan and it goes down to say it
(03:48):
went to $0.
90 cents.
You forgive the loan, theyforgive the loan, you got it.
But you know that not likely,that ever happened.
It has happened I have.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Does it happen?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
yeah, I've had it, one time I think, but we never
took a loan.
Me and your brother never tooka loan on our stuff back then.
We weren't in the program thatmuch, you and your brother, my
brother, me and my brother Johnwas my older brother's farm with
me and we never took a loan onthat back then, hardly ever took
a loan on it.
Okay, but a loan just frees upyour operation to cash flow.
(04:18):
You take it out in the fall.
We always hold our crop untilApril or spring or more later,
so you don't have any cash flow.
If you take a loan out, thenyou've got some cash flow.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
But that is subsidized by the government to
keep that interest rate down.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, the interest is lower.
I don't know what it is today.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
It used to be like 1% didn't it?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, that was the last couple of years, a few
years ago, but now I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
It's 3% or so, but it's less, and way less than you
can go borrow money for.
So in the 80s like I alwayshear people talk about how bad
things were in the 80s, whichlooks a lot on paper like now
High interest rates, low yields,low prices Did farm subsidies
really amp up then?
Do you remember?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Well, they had to pick years.
Describe what the pick yearsare.
I kind of forget how it worked.
You set so many acres aside andI don't know.
I mean did you fallow thoseacres?
Huh, Did you fallow them?
Yeah, you could work them, discthem or spray them.
Well, you, usually work, fallowand plant next year, but it had
(05:22):
to be so many acres.
And I remember one year Dad hadsome wheat set aside and had so
many acres set aside, you got acorn base and a wheat base.
It was just those two.
You didn't have a corn andsoybean base, but what that was,
you had so many acres you couldplant and over that you didn't
(05:43):
get no money, any subsidies orof any kind out of that.
Say, if you had 100 acres acresyou could plant and over that
you didn't get no money, anysubsidies or of any kind out of
that.
Say, if you had 100 acres youplant 200, you didn't get
nothing on 100 acres.
And back then they come out andmeasure the crop.
But I remember that one year itwas probably in the early 70s,
I think I was out of school, Ithink I know they had a guy come
(06:04):
out and measured the field andsaid we planted too much, like
two acres, so Dad had to tear itup.
Come find out he measured wrongand he was a teacher, my
basketball coach, yeah.
He wasn't the government he wasthere to help, but anyway he
(06:24):
couldn't figure it.
And the boy dad said I'll nevergo into the program and I don't
think he ever went into theprogram again.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
So when dad says the program Government program, so
to get any government subsidiesyou have to be in the program,
sign it.
So in my opinion, governmentsubsidies is a different way of
the federal government buyinginformation.
That's kind of one way I lookat it.
There are certain subsidies Idon't agree with.
I really don't like any of them.
But I think that they use thatto buy information.
(06:53):
For example, for that cropinsurance, to take out crop
insurance you have to certifyyour acres at the federal
government office, which is thefsa office.
If you ever see an fsa building, farm Service Agency, that's
what that stands for.
In order to get crop insurancewe have to go in there after we
plant.
They have maps of all of ourfields.
We tell them where we plantedwhat and when we planted it, and
(07:16):
that is how the government kindof gets a handle on trade
numbers.
They know how many bushels areout there per year based on how
many acres of corn were planted,and this is the average for the
last few years, because you'vegot to report that crap to your
insurance agent.
So that's kind of how I look atsubsidies.
It's just them buyinginformation.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah, and in the olden days it's not like it is
today.
In the olden days you had baseacres.
Like I say, you had 100 acresof base.
If you had 200 acres of corn,you didn't get paid for that.
And the biggest thing on that,how they?
How did that go away?
That was in the last 10 years.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Oh, that's went away, for I remember base acres being
a big thing.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
No, not like back then, because you had to prove
your yield.
You had to give them a yield.
They went by I believe maybe acounty average yield.
You couldn't prove your yieldsand our yield was never over 128
bushel, I think was the highest.
It was on corn and certainparts of the county got a little
higher and certain parts of thestate which had a little better
(08:16):
ground and we always complainedbecause we always rated 150
bushel corn back in the 80s, 90sand we'd had 200 bushel one
year.
We had 200 bushel one year.
We had 200 bushel field.
But you know they got paid onwhat your base acres was and
your base yield.
The yield they had gotcha, thewheat yield wasn't much at all.
It was terrible.
(08:37):
So you know, every time you Ialways felt every time he seemed
like you got something from thegovernment it's going to cost
you something Red tape you gotto go through Well, for one
other government subsidy.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
This is kind of switching gears.
When I built my bin and youbuilt one of these bins we used
a government loan.
So FSA office has governmentbin programs.
I remember going to farm creditand asking our farm credit
officer hey, I'm going to builda bin.
Going to farm credit and askingour farm credit officer hey,
I'm going to build a bin, I cansave more money from paying DP
charges in town than what my binpayment's going to be.
(09:11):
I think Can you guys help me?
And they actually told me to goto the farm service agency
because the lower renters, butthe amount of red tape that
comes with it, a lot of red tape.
Yeah, it's low interest, man,it's.
Sometimes you're like, is itreally worth it?
Because to get that loan, uhprocess I mean you're talking
(09:32):
six, seven months, whereas if wewere getting a loan from farm
credit for a grain bin it'dprobably take a couple days.
I mean, if that, yeah, it'slike you say, anytime you use
the government there's a lot ofred tape and there's a lot of
headaches usually.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
But the programs nowadays, the new farm bills,
it's just I don't know.
It's there to protect the guythat needs it, is it?
But you have a bad year,supposedly.
But I've seen a lot of times,or heard a lot of times, that
the people that's got big acres,there's a limit to it.
(10:09):
Well, there's ways around that.
I've heard of politiciansgetting big money.
They own farmland.
They shouldn't have got it, butthere's ways around it.
Whenever somebody's going togive you something or you do
something, something like thatsome way, somebody's going to
beat it some way.
You do something something likethat.
In some ways, somebody's goingto beat it some way and get more
what they shouldn't get.
But it's just, I don't know,it's just a lot of red tape In
(10:31):
your opinion?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
do you think that we'd be better off without the
government involved?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Oh, yeah, but it never happened.
They can't and I can understandsome.
They've got to project what thefood supply is going to be.
If we could control the marketit'd be dangerous.
We could do whatever we want todo.
That ain't going to happen.
We're going to town and weain't going to sell it to you.
(10:57):
There's always somebody that'sgoing to say I ain't going to
sell it to the elevator for lessthan $5 a bushel.
Well, somebody down the road isgoing to sell it to the
elevator for less than, say, $5a bushel.
Well, somebody down the road isgoing to give it to $4.
Farmers can't get together.
There used to be a union NFO, Ithink was the name of it.
They tried back in the 80s.
(11:18):
I believe it was Dad.
I remember he would go to someof the meetings and he joined it
.
Nothing ever happened, neverhelped anything.
They had a little bit of voice.
It was a lot less than the FarmBureau.
But I remember one guy the guywas a president of our county
(11:40):
had hogs, raised hogs.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
And this was his farm union.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
His farmer's union.
They wanted you to not raise asmany hogs or cattle or whatever
, not grow as many crops.
Trying to manipulate the price,trying to, but it never worked.
But this guy was gettingeverybody to do this, telling
everybody, and what's he do?
He buys more sows, raises morepigs.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
So the local market got affected.
He took advantage, yeah, yeah,and raises more pigs.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
So the local market got affected, he took advantage.
Yeah, yeah, and you know it'sjust hard to we, don't?
It's hard for us, and if thegovernment wanted to end it, I
don't know what would happen.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Well, that's kind of my.
I don't know that they couldget completely out of it.
No, they um.
I didn't realize that there wasfarm programs in the 60s.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I mean you're talking about ear corn and that had
been in the 60s.
Oh yeah, always been a farmprogram as long as I can
remember.
Now 50s, I don't remember that,I was just little little.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
So did you have to go certify acres?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Oh, every year you had to certify your acres Every
year, tell them what made.
But we could never.
It was hard to get our yieldsup up and that's what you got
paid on your base acres plusyour yield, and we was making
you know yield a lot more.
And I know neighbors down therehad him.
He got some raised when hestarted farming.
He got raised some way and somenot much.
(12:53):
But I think the highest yieldwas in Ross County, was there
might be 130 bushel and otherother counties was a lot more
than that 30 or 40 bushel,probably 30 bushel, 20 bushel, I
don't know, but it was higherthan ours.
Okay, so they did away with that.
I don't know when they did awaywith the acre yields.
(13:13):
Well, they let us prove them.
Now.
That's what they do.
But now when we certify theydon't ask for yields.
Of course you got it on thecrop insurance so they know what
we're got.
Yeah, our yields are.
Yeah, the government, they knoweverything about us.
They always aggravate me whensomebody call a survey.
The government's put themsurveys up.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
They know more about our business than we do yeah, so
when was the first time you canremember disaster relief
funding and?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
one year, uh, back in the, we was farming up salt
creek.
This would have been in the 80s, I know the creek got out bad,
like in crop.
Uh, before we planted it was inthe fall spring.
It brought in a lot of sand andthere was a program that paid
us for removing that sand.
We got a little bit fueledabout what it was.
(14:06):
It wasn't much but we did signup and it's nice for that.
And I think, like this year,the cattle guys, I think, got
some money for hay because itwas dry.
But it just helps a little bitto get you through maybe.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I mean, as far as making any money, you ain't
going to make any money unlessyou can figure out how.
But do you think it's right forthe government to give disaster
relief?
Here's my opinion.
Like I can remember, when Trumpwas in office and got in that
tariff war with China the firstTrump presidency in like 2016 to
2020.
And I can remember quite a bitof government subsidies that we
got those years.
I kind of had mixed feelingsabout that.
(14:45):
On one hand, I don't reallylike it when the government
hands out money because itcreates inflation.
Like I've stated before, Ithink it keeps people in
business that maybe didn't makegreat decisions.
But on the other hand, I thinkthe government had a direct hand
in keeping our prices low inthe trade war.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
So I kind of have a mixed feeling on that one.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
But what is subsidized nowadays?
That is another thing RailroadsOil.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Everything is subsidized.
I mean government stuff, I meanprivate stuff.
There's a lot of railroads, big, big time.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Well, there's a piece of track right here that I'm
fairly positive.
The only reason it still existsis because that railroad
company is getting money.
They get money.
Now, when do you remember CREPand CRP becoming a thing?
Because this I can rememberwhen CREP became a thing.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
It started in.
When would that have been CREP?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
I remember the late 90s, 2000, late 90s or 2000.
But CRP was before.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
That wasn't it.
Crp was always.
Yeah, that was the set aside.
They called it CRP, startedcalling it CRP.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
So for the viewers, if you don't know what we're
talking about CREP basically youenroll your acres into a
program called CREP.
I don't remember exactly whatit stands for now.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
It has to be along a waterway or a ditch.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
It has to be along a waterway or a ditch and you can
enroll up to.
I think it's $500,000 worth ofland, isn't it no?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Or is it $50,000?
There's a limit on it to$200,000, maybe dollar-wise.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Basically, the government is paying you to cede
that to a native grass speciesthat they say used to be here
and not farm it.
I don't like those programspersonally.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Some people manipulate it like everything.
You know, that's what it is.
Well, I can remember when theystarted doing that.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
They were paying $200 , $250 an acre and that was way
higher than rent was in thisarea in 2000.
And I can just remember I meanI'd been a 10 to 15-year-old kid
One of the neighbors put a farmin there and I'm thinking, man,
I'd love to farm that when Iget out of school, but there's
no way I can afford to outpaythe government for it.
And now CRP is that high no CRP.
(16:54):
I don't think $170?
.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Well, it's not $200, but this CREP program got up to
I think it's $400-some in someplaces.
Well, you know, we'd be kind ofcrazy not to put it in there.
But people who put it in thereare landowners who probably
don't farm it.
What it looks to me like.
And you know, if I farm andyou're out there a guy's farming
, what do you want to do?
(17:16):
You want to put it in the CREPland or you want to farm it.
You want to do.
You want to put it in the crepeland or you want to farm it.
You want to farm it if you makea dollar.
You want, you're going to makea dollar if you you know it's
just our nature to farm the land, till land or or tilling the
land, that's kind of anothersubject.
Yeah, that's hard.
You know no tills and we knowtill now, but that's hard to do
too.
But you know it's just, uh, theway things go anymore.
(17:37):
It's just, and I I don't thinkthere's a sign up for it now I
think it's pretty well.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I think there's enrollment periods when they get
enough acres covered.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, they get so many acres.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
CRP pretty much they'll take it.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
CRP?
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I don't know CRP is the same concept, except it
doesn't have to be by a waterway, and it doesn't pay as high,
it's just marginal ground, whatit is usually yeah but what I'm
saying is they're paying more anacre for marginal ground than I
want to try to farm it.
For example, we had a farm thatwe farm a field right beside it.
(18:11):
The lady asked would you beinterested in farming it?
Because it was in CRP.
We had bush hogged it for her afew times, asked if we'd be
interested or she was going tore-enroll it.
And of course we wereinterested and at the time I
think she was getting 70 an acrecr for crp, which in my opinion
, like I mean that ground was100 to 120 an acre land.
(18:33):
It was not good farm ground.
It's up on top of a hill, treesall around it, clay, easy way
to get to it.
I mean it was a $120 an acrefarm at best.
Well, crp was going to give her$165 or $175 an acre.
We're like, well, I think you'dbe crazy not to put it in there
.
It's just another instance thathappened to compete against the
(18:54):
government.
It's like, well, if theyweren't in this fight, well,
we'd be farming that 100 acreswhich would have been handy well
, we'd be farming that 100 acres, which would have been handy,
but it's kept prices, has itkept?
prices from going around?
Has it kept crop prices?
How many acres?
Has it kept land prices?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, I don't know how many acres are in it.
That's the big thing.
They say, Well, it's going togo to production, which is right
.
But what I don't understandevery year they say so many
millions of acres of corn areput out and beans.
It seems like it's always a fewmore of each.
Where's all this land comingfrom?
I mean, Ohio has lost acres andacres of development and the
(19:33):
factories.
And the factory and the solarpanels.
I don't know where they'regetting all these acres.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
I think in Ohio like 3% of farm ground is solar
panels.
It's terrible.
Which 3% doesn't sound like alot.
You're talking like 100,000acres, a couple hundred thousand
acres, probably several hundredthousand.
They don't want the bad ground,they put it on the good ground
and that's another industrythat's subsidized, all them.
Solar panels to me are a moneygrab.
It is some subsidized programwhere the government's paying
(20:00):
so-and-so to put this solarpanel out here.
They can't really prove it'sgoing to ever pay for itself.
That's a different topic.
Don't worry folks, we will talksolar panels one day, because
that is a subject that is verynear and dear.
It boils my blood prettyheavily.
But anyways, back to thesubsidy questions.
When was the first time thatyou can remember like a drought
(20:25):
year and then like they weretalking about doing this year
like a government?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
oh golly, I don't know we ever got anything for
drought in 99.
There wasn't anything.
I think there was something,but I I can't remember.
There was probably somethinglittle.
We never did get a lot of moneyI mean.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
So that is all public record yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I know and it shows that, yeah, but it don't mount
that much.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Don't mount that much .
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I think the insurance is a big thing Crop insurance.
I think the crop insurance isthe subsidy that everyone takes
at the age we never used to havecrop insurance and we just had
to start taking it.
Glad we had it this year.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah.
Now one thing about cropinsurance.
People always ask every timethey see, like when I post
pictures of our corn allshriveled up, well, do you guys
have crop insurance for that?
We do.
But it isn't like we're makingmoney when we're taking a crop
insurance claim.
I mean we would have been waybetter off to never have to
collect on crop insurance.
(21:30):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it'll keepyou going, but that's about it.
You're not really prospering inthat situation.
Prospering in that situation.
And the more times you file acrop insurance claim you get
paid, at least the way ourinsurance is on your average
production.
So we're insured, I think, at80% of our average production.
(21:56):
Well, if you start turningaverage production numbers lower
and lower and lower, you got tomeet a worse threshold every
time to get paid.
So one thing that helped usthis year we'd had to get paid.
So one thing that helped usthis year we'd had several good
years.
So we've kind of got our APH upquite a bit.
So that triggered a cropinsurance claim sooner than if
we'd had four or five years in arow of bad years.
So let's say we average 200bushel every year for five years
(22:17):
.
Well then, our APH is 200bushel.
Now we throw in five years of100 bushel per acre.
Well now, our APH is 200 bushel.
Now we throw in five years of100 bushel per acre, well now,
our APH is 100, and we've got toget to 80 bushel before we ever
get a crop insurance claim.
Well, at 80 bushel, you wentbroke a long time ago.
So I mean, at 200 bushel peracre, your crop insurance claim
(22:39):
or threshold there for us wouldbe 160.
Well, you can still.
That's a lot better situation,I guess, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Well it's.
There are people that's not inthe program and I wish we could
but anymore.
It's kind of a necessity.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
So one other thing, that those programs, like I said
, I think the government usesthem to buy information.
I also think they use it todictate how you farm.
We'll pay you such and suchdollars to change this practice
on your farm.
There's a lot of that.
There's a lot of programs atthe soil and water places and
the FSA that you can sign up for.
There's probably a lot ofpeople listening and watching
(23:20):
this that are familiar with whatI'm talking about and we've
been in those for a while.
That's the only reason that westarted doing cover crops is we
were basically being paid to bythe government.
Now, was it lucrative?
No, but we were basicallycovering the cost of planting
those cover crops.
Hopefully help the tilth of thesoil to planting those cover
crops.
Hopefully help the tilth of thesoil.
(23:41):
And that's the governmenttrying to.
You know, I guess trying toactively get other crop
practices out there by bribingyou pretty much.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
And now you know, the watershed at whatever they call
it up in Northern Ohio hasmoved down here where you've got
to put fertilizer in the ground.
Up there you've got to put itin the ground, you can't just
bulk spread it.
So, uh, and they're paying themsome a little bit, there's a
little bit of money out there todo that, because you gotta buy
equipment to do it.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
So and that's one of those issues where it's a
subsidy from the government, butthey're basically so.
I think if you strip till inthat area, they'll pay you up to
like 80 an acre.
I don't think it's that high,isn't it?
I don't know $50 an acre.
Either way, though, to buy astrip-till bar for most
operations is going to be about.
I mean, you're going to useevery bit of those dollars I
(24:29):
guess what I'm saying tore-equip yourself to be able to
meet government regulations.
That's a government subsidythat they put in place, but it's
because they kind of made youchange how you're doing things.
But I know the subsidy I hadseen or heard mentioned right
before Christmas was talkinglike $50 an acre on corn and
(24:55):
like $20 or $40 on beans, justto help with disaster relief,
and that's one thing.
I don't like, that personally.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah, I don't like it , but we'll take it.
I mean, like I say, everybodyelse gets subsidies, so it'll
help.
If it's there, we're going totake it.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
But I wish it wasn't.
There is what I'm saying, andone thing I really don't like
about it is the way that itmakes the general public view us
.
Yeah, and like, I rememberlistening to Senator Johnson
talk about this bill and he wasjust talking about how the poor
farmer's this and the poorfarmer's that and I was like man
, I got a little bit more pridein myself than to go cry in
(25:33):
front of a television beggingfor money.
I guess I just didn't reallylike how that made us look
personally.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, and, like I say , the biggest thing our guys
made about them is there'salways somebody beating the
system, getting more money thanthey should, and you know, you
hear a lot of things, but that'swhat happens.
That's the nature of it.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
A lot of fraud.
Yeah, a lot of insurance fraudtoo.
I mean, dad, you're not onTikTok, but there's a family on
TikTok in Missouri that they hada TV show.
I think they were called theMcBeads or McBeths.
I'm not super familiar with it.
In fact Randy the master pieplayer told me about it.
But it's this big familyoperation several thousands of
(26:12):
acres with other businessesinvolved, several family members
.
They got caught with amulti-million dollar crop
insurance fraud.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Well, years ago, back in the 70s, there was crop
insurance and there was a guyout here got caught in the other
side of town that what he wasdoing is putting the crop out,
not putting any fertilizer orchemical, and it was just.
He did it, I think, a coupleyears, maybe three years, and
they quit paying.
He didn't farm anymore andthere's.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
You hear all kind of things and see, I think these
people were manipulating theiryield maps and then hiding, like
, like, close to a millionbushels of grain.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Well, in pick years, that's what guys got trouble
doing some of that hiding grain,If something paid on your
bushels I don't remember how itwas, it was a mess, though I
know that.
Okay, it was a mess, but youknow, subsidies, subsidies,
everybody gets them.
It seems like Transit system intown and this and that.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Well, the roads are all subsidized by the government
.
And the same thing thetaxpayers, all the taxpayers.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
It's taxpayer money.
And the disasters.
California is terrible, that isterrible.
And what's going on out there?
That fire, oh man.
But you know we'll have to payfor that.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Well, I heard them say that the federal government
is going to cover 100% of thecost.
Yeah, that's what they'resaying.
Now, one thing that did strikeme as odd that whenever that
flood happened in the southernstates right before the election
, I don't believe that's howthat went down there.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I don't know.
It's just they don't pass themoney out.
They want to ship everythingoverseas.
I just wonder how many peoplefrom overseas are sending money
here.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I wonder how many people that are going to send
the money to overseas.
Actually see the money.
A lot of corruption in thisworld.
Yeah, a lot of corruption.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
But I don't watch the farm bill.
What they'll do in the farmbill, it's just they try to make
it so it's a I want to sayinsurance.
So if the price is tank, youknow, farmers got a little bit
to pay some bills.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I know personally we do not make business decisions
around government subsidies andfarm bills.
Personally, we do not makebusiness decisions around
government subsidies and farmbills.
We've never looked at it aswell if we don't get the subsidy
, we're not going to succeed.
This year it's always been like, if we get this $40 or $50 or
whatever this next round theywere discussing, if we get it,
yeah, we're going to use it.
It will ease a little bit ofstress.
(28:45):
Do we need it?
No, can we survive without it?
Yes, can we survive without it?
Yes, are we asking for it?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
No, yeah, I was kind of surprised when I heard they
were going to give it, but, likeI've always said, the Chicago
Board of Trade kind of rules us,whatever they say.
Whatever they say now, thereport came out the other day
and I guess everything's poppedup because of it.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Well, it'll be interesting.
So we're reporting this onSunday the 12th.
The report came out last Friday.
I would almost bet money thatMonday morning tomorrow there'll
be a market correction.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
I think it'll be a little correction, but I don't
think it'll say I bet there wasa lot of bushels sold.
I think it'll go up to a lot aquarter, 50 cents maybe at the
most corn, but the bushels ain'tthere that they thought there
was going to be.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Are you surprised with where the market is now?
I kind of thought it would besub $4.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Well, I'm good to honor there man.
We sold a little bit for lessthan $4.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
I figured whenever we were in harvest and it was
below $4, I thought $4 was goingto be the goal.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I remember the first time corn got up to $8 back
there whenever it was 2008's thefirst time I remember.
I remember hearing guys saycorn will never be below $4
again.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Well, a couple of years it was below $4, so you
never say never, but itfluctuates so much compared what
it used to, yeah, didn't,didn't fluctuate that much in
years, old years yeah, so in thepast, when you were younger,
like in the 70s 80s, do youremember people really making
(30:22):
that big of a deal about farmsubsidies or do you think the
general public, even there was athere was not a lot of people
Do you think they even knew itexisted?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Oh yeah, but there wasn't near as many people like
today.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
No, I mean like, when we post a YouTube video, we
don't get a lot of hatefulcomments, but we do from time to
time and it won't even be avideo about subsidies Someone
will comment that my tax dollarsare funding your farm and all
this crap.
I mean, was there that kind of,I guess, sentiment around?
Oh, I'm sure there was.
I mean, yeah I just I gotta feellike most like today.
(30:53):
I think more people are moreinformed today of what's
happening, but I think they'reonly half informed.
I think they get emotional whenthey hear that and they don't
really dig into why it'shappening or how it's happened
or the circumstances for itsometimes.
So hopefully we were able toshed a little bit of light on
our side of the story, I guess.
On farm subsidies, like I said,I wish they didn't exist, but
(31:17):
since they're here, we'll takethem if they hand them out.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, we'll definitely We'll take it.
Every time I go in the FSAoffice I ask them if there's any
checks for us, but most of thetime I say no.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
But I think when we get those subsidies, I mean I
feel obligated to try to makegood decisions with that money.
I mean I think if we got a$50,000 government check and we
went and bought a boat with it,that might not be the greatest
decision in the world.
And too many decisions likethat and you end up not farming.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah, the hardest thing would be if they quit
subsidies on crop insurance.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
That would be a game changer.
That would be detrimental.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
It'd be bad Because they pay a lot of.
I think, when you jump up to85% or 90%.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
It's unsubsidized after that and it like triples
the price of that insurance.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yeah and and we got some ground, it's river ground
is already doubled.
It's, uh, flood plain, so it'sit's almost doubled.
Yeah, what ordinary ground is.
But it'd be bad if we had topay that whole.
We couldn't afford it.
We couldn't afford it.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Yeah, there's something else I was going to
ask you.
I can't remember what it wasnow, something on the subsidy
side of things.
Well, I can't remember what itis now.
Anything else you want to talkabout, not?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
on subsidies.
Okay, I don't know what they'regoing to do.
What Trump will do on a farmbill, it's hard to tell.
I guess he's picked a ladysecretary, so I'll see how that
turns out.
I don't know.
We'll see how it turns out, yep.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Well, folks, be sure to tune in.
Next week this podcast will beavailable on all podcast
platforms as well as YouTube, socheck it out wherever you enjoy
listening.
Just search Farmer Talk and youshould be able to find it.
This episode will probably beon Brian's Farming Videos
YouTube channel for now, until Iget a channel set up for the
podcast, any other Farmer Talks?
(33:23):
When I searched it, I did notfind any on podcast platforms,
so we're going to capitalize andtake it, but next week I think
we're going to discuss equipmentinflation, unless a current
event comes up that we want tostart talking about.
So, yeah, be sure to tune inand we'll talk equipment and
inflation.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Or if anybody out there has an idea of what you
want to listen to or hear ustalk about, put it in the
comments or something.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yep.
Thanks for tuning in, everybody, and we will see you in the
next episode.
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