March 21, 2025 • 35 mins
In this episode of FARSIGHT Chats, host Farah Bala shares insights from her appearance on Jennifer Brown's podcast, The Will to Change where they discuss moral progress in business leadership and the significance of inclusive workplace cultures.
The episode prompts listeners to evaluate their company's efforts in creating equitable and supportive environments. It emphasizes probing questions around workplace policies, equity, and psychological well-being, especially during tumultuous times.
The episode culminates in exploring the importance of curiosity, growth mindset, and the continuous learning journey to combat isolation and foster a sense of community and belonging.
| KEY TOPICS DISCUSSED |
Moral Progress in Business Leadership: A visionary discussion on what inclusive workplace cultures can look like and how organizations can advance equity and inclusion.
Healthy Workplace Cultures: The importance of moving beyond performative diversity initiatives to deeply embedded systems and policies that promote equity, diversity, inclusion, and anti-oppression (EDIA).
Identity and Belonging: How identity shapes workplace experiences, the evolving understanding of identity (beyond just identity politics), and the need to create spaces where employees feel seen, heard, and valued.
Challenges in Leadership: Addressing resistance to change, fear of innovation, and the complexities of managing diverse teams in an evolving workplace environment.
Mental Health in the Workplace: The increasing recognition of mental health as a crucial aspect of diversity and inclusion, and the challenges organizations face in supporting employees’ well-being.
The Role of Organizations in Employee Well-Being: Discussing whether organizations should take on more responsibility in supporting employees beyond just professional development, including mental health, pay equity, and social justice commitments.
Polarization and the Political Climate: Examining the impact of political and cultural shifts on workplace diversity efforts and the backlash against EDIA initiatives.
Visionary Leadership and Change: The need for leaders to embrace uncertainty, engage in continuous learning, and foster inclusive environments that support diverse perspectives and innovation.
Creating a Culture of Learning and Curiosity: Encouraging employees and leaders to engage in ongoing learning, questioning assumptions, and broadening their understanding of different identities and experiences.
Building a Sustainable EDIA Strategy: The future of EDIA in organizations, how businesses can balance various stakeholder expectations, and what sustainable inclusion looks like in the long term.
| SHOW NOTES |
00:00 Introduction to Farsight Chats
01:06 Special Guest: Jennifer Brown
01:39 Reflecting on Workplace Culture
02:25 Origins of Farsight Chats
05:26 Season One: Focus on Identity
08:57 Challenges in Leadership and Culture
13:46 Navigating Change and Innovation
15:49 The Role of Mental Health in DEI
20:27 Vision Keepers and Future Leaders
34:53 Conclusion and Next Steps
| WORKS CITED |
Jennifer Brown Consulting. Company LinkedIn.
Jennifer Brown, host. The Will To Change. Podcast.
Connect with our...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to Farsight Chats, your guideto navigating complex and important
conversations on workplace culture.
I'm your host, Farah Bala.
Founder and CEO of Farsight.
We specialize in leadership andorganizational development, focusing
on equity, diversity, and inclusionas core leadership competencies.
(00:22):
Join us in these conversationsthat aim to foster understanding,
growth, and positive change.
On our new series of episodes, wefeature leadership conversations
focused on healthy workplace culture.
With formidable heads of HR, EDIA,which is Equity, Diversity, Inclusion,
and Anti Oppression, employee resourcegroups, executive coaches, and
(00:46):
global practitioners and leaders.
We're experiencing rapid policy changeswithin companies in 2025, and this
conversation becomes even more important.
We need a steady leadership voicewithin every organization that
emphasizes its values, purpose,and commitments to its employees.
I was invited to join Jennifer Brownas a guest on her podcast, The Will
(01:10):
to Change, in the fall of 2024.
Jennifer is an award winningentrepreneur, speaker, best selling
author, and leadership expert.
She wanted to interview me for the launchof our podcast, Farsight Chats, but we
ended up having a powerful conversationon moral progress in business leadership.
(01:30):
A visionary dialogue on what'spossible for the future of
inclusive workplace cultures.
And we want to share thisconversation with you today.
As you listen in, we inviteyou to consider, how would you
rate your company's progress increating healthy cultures and
promoting equity and inclusion?
Is it performative?
(01:51):
Or is it truly embedded inthe systems and policies?
How is your organization supportingyou and your colleagues psychological
well being in the workplace?
Especially given the current pandemic.
Chaos of this year and theattacks and marginalized groups.
And lastly, if you had it your way,what is your vision for your company?
Where everyone feelsseen, heard, and valued.
(02:16):
Join us on this journey oflearning and unlearning in
today's episode of Farsight Chats.
Ara, Paula, welcome.
Here we are and here we have been,honestly, you and I for years now.
I just have known you are doingamazing work in the way you do it.
(02:38):
We share performance backgrounds, youand I we have a lot actually in common
and a lot not for sure that I have valuedso much and you're just incredible.
So I just wanted to be here.
Talk about your incredible podcast series.
That is the edited version of years ofinterviews and programming that you had.
(03:01):
Over the last five years, and I canrelate because I've had a podcast for
seven years and many community calls.
And now you and I are the kinds ofconveners and facilitators that have
these ongoing deep libraries of incrediblehumans and change makers and stories and
data, and we sit atop this and what you'vedone with yours, I think is so creative.
(03:25):
If you introduce yourself to at least thefolks that are coming in from my LinkedIn
world, and then we have people coming infrom yours, hopefully too, but tell us
more about who you are and how this seriesgerminated and what the history of it is
and what you're pulling forward into thesenow a few episodes, but to be many more
as we go into the later part of the year.
(03:46):
Yeah first of all, thank you forinviting me into this conversation.
I feel like we met in 2020.
I remember this very well becauseFarsight Friday had just started and
you had retreated our young leadersround table, we did a two part series.
And that is how you and I connected.
And then you brought me intoone of your community calls.
(04:07):
You will, and a guest on Farsight Friday.
Okay.
So who am I?
Farah Bala, I'm the founderand CEO of Farsight.
We are leadership and organizationaldevelopment agency, full service,
with a focus and prioritization ofthe concepts and practices of EDIA.
So we're using differentacronyms right now.
For us, it's equity, diversity, inclusion,anti oppression, and Farsight Chats,
(04:30):
which is our podcast that we launchedthis summer, is a re imagining of
Farsight Friday, which was this veryorganic socialization of conversation
that occurred in 2020, in the springof 2020, when people just wanted
to talk and were willing to listenin new and deep and different ways.
And I found myself.
Repeating the kinds of conversationsmultiple times in a day, as
(04:52):
I'm sure was the case with youand so many of our community.
And I was like, okay, this got,this has to be sustainable for
me, but also let's widen the net.
And so I'm blown away that howfive seasons just flew by and those
episodes live on our website, but.
I needed to give it intentional time tosay, we need to widen our listenership.
(05:15):
And the goal was always to get onthe Spotify's and Apple Podcasts
and the audio space of things.
But this year is finally when wehave the time and capacity to dig in.
Season one, which is a total of 13 or14 episodes is just focused on identity.
All realms and forms of identity so far.
And the motivation behind this iseducation, creating more capacity
(05:38):
to listening and learning spaces.
Because that is, I think, the foundationupon which we can even start to
build and conceive healthy cultures.
We have to learn, you know, we'recurrently in a very polarized being
right culture and just to be ableto expose ourselves to different
perspectives is so important.
And then the last thing I'll say,what I love about this particular
(06:00):
season, that's focused on identity is.
Because I'm relistening to these episodesfrom years ago, not only are they as
timely and imminent as needed today asthey were then, but they really put the
humanity in place because of the termidentity politics and the politicizing
of everything is just so heightened rightnow to, and to hear from experts and
(06:23):
humans who live this on a day to day.
It's transformational.
I can imagine the
choice of what you bring from five yearsof conversations, what you had to choose
in this first season is about identity,not identity politics, but identity.
Let's bring the human back inand that it's timeless too.
(06:43):
As much as it's changing quickly,our understanding of identity, our
terminology for identity, identities thatweren't on our radar screen and now are.
But I imagine choosing where to startand particularly what to highlight was
difficult or was it not and it justemerged to you and it was very clear
that I need to start with identityand your first three episodes, all
(07:05):
of which I've listened to, one ison language mattering, one is on
the evolving science of unconsciousbias, which I highly recommend.
I found that deeply interesting.
And then one on gender identity,which is a topic I know deeply.
Yes, we all have gender identities.
I was going to say not from a livedexperience when it comes to trans and
gender non binary friends and lovedones, but certainly you featured some
(07:28):
voices that I know personally andthat I've learned so much from you.
Was it an easy choice?
Was it very intuitive?
Was it hard?
I know you have another season plannedwhere you're going to probably get
to some of the other jewels in your
life.
I love that question.
It emerged, to be honest, Jennifer,the way those topics were being
planned was, as are you, justplugged into various communities.
(07:50):
And I would just surface topics thatjust felt the loudest at the time.
And so those episodes arenot as seamlessly aligned.
And so when there was anopportunity to reimagine this, I
was constantly asking, what is thethreat here at the end of the day?
And these episodes lifted up.
I don't think we have.
Next any before this season for, thereare a couple of episodes we won't
(08:14):
be able to use just because of audioquality as Zoom was getting better
because all of this was done on Zoom.
Season two is also, it's going tobe pretty self emergent because
it gets us into the organization.
With how we talk about HR and DEIrelationship and partnership, women's
leadership, the value of employeeresource groups, the internet section
(08:35):
of solidarity, that the opportunitythere, you are, your episode on intrusive
leadership, when your book launched,that's a really powerful one of, with
your frameworks and how we can justlift up from allyship to advocacy and
more activation of all of this work.
Yeah.
I, my question for you is.
(08:57):
Given the time that we are currentlyin, we already spoke about the high
polarization and the politicizationof everything and the blatant
attacks on DEI practitioners.
From your perspective and expertise, whatdoes healthy culture look like today?
Piggybacking on where you started to focuswith the season, identity continues to be.
(09:20):
Honestly, top of mind, it's sucha learning frontier for all of us.
It's a moving target.
It's a language question.
It is a self awareness andexploration, a deepening of our own
authenticity journey, and maimingthings is one of the most powerful.
Elements of change to ourselves.
(09:42):
Like people think that we do this to betroublemakers or to wield it in some way
as a way of control or a way of shaming,et cetera, but it's such a beautiful
process of hearing, seeing and witnessed.
And so I think that's what's lost in thisdialogue and the way that unfortunately
(10:03):
people who know nothing about ithave reframed it and truly stolen it.
And I use that word because ultimatelyto be seen, heard, witnessed, I
like witnessed too because I don'tlike to use ableist words like
seen and heard and stop there.
One thing I've really been thinkingabout, like what's a better way to
capture this, but to be witnessedor experienced, to be valued, to
(10:26):
be in partnership with in a trustedRelationship with trust is really big too.
So I just think that this stuff iswhat gets in the way of performance and
belonging and these fundamental buildingblocks of Maslow hierarchy of performance.
Because ultimately that stability thatwe need to feel in ourselves about
(10:48):
who we are and then with each otheris the foundation of that pyramid.
And we can only move up to creativityand innovation and one plus one
equals three when we're generating.
Idea and solutions with otherhumans, which we do because that's
what the work world is basedon still until that changes.
And we're doing that with AI, whoknows what's ahead, but for now,
(11:12):
that foundation is where it startsor doesn't it and gets broken, right?
And it begins to have the hairlinefractures and then it fractures.
Unfortunately.
Because we don't feel witnessed andvalued and others don't even know how
they are perpetuating that feeling in usand that disconnect, that gap between the
(11:33):
learner, there's learning on both sides.
There's learning to show up withmore authenticity and fullness and be
brave and courageous in doing that.
And then there's the grace to receivethe learning and share the learning back.
Amongst those that are in asystem that are relatively more
comfortable in that system.
Yeah.
That's the dynamic.
And I know you and I live in thatintersection asking these really curious
(11:57):
questions about what gets in the way ofthis beautiful thing that can be created
when there is a seamlessness to it.
It's never going to be smoothper se, but that's actually this
beautiful, creative abrasion.
You have a tension of not knowing,not understanding, coming to
understand, coming towards eachother through those differences and
(12:17):
with, not in spite of, with thosedifferences is where the magic happens.
And that's, I think that's the juiceof our system working and also our
sense of purpose too, goodness.
Like at the end of the day, it's notjust about making companies successful.
It's about.
All of us finding why are we here?
How can I be of service?
How can I use everythingin me that contribute?
(12:40):
And I think we all deep down really wantto do that and say that we did that.
Want to have that legacyand that mark on the world.
I
love what you said.
What especially stood out for me, thestability of how we are being together.
I just love that.
And for me, that brings ourother social groups, right?
We have family, we have schoolsystems, we have universities.
(13:02):
There is a stability within thatof how we are with each other.
And with organizations, if you are doingit well, you have such a breadth of
diversity of thought, background, culture,experience, expertise coming through.
That seems to be the most nebulousand ever changing and shifting.
And what that stability looks likeneeds to constantly be interrogated.
(13:24):
And what might look stable even fiveyears ago is not the case right now.
And to your point of whatgets in the way, I think.
Insisting on how things have been in thepast, interesting on things that work
for a select few or for self interestor for business interest exclusively.
Those are the things that, that createa chasm and creates that instability.
(13:46):
The other thing that comes up for me is,and I'm curious what you think about this.
There is so much shift, right?
In just how work happens inworkplaces, influence of AI, influence
of hybrid working environments.
I am seeing a significant shiftof how much a human, and I'm
(14:08):
looking for the right word.
It's not dependence as much as trustingan organization or trusting their
workplace to take care of certain needs.
And I feel that percentagehas increased over time.
There is an expectation that if I amgoing to be here at this organization,
you are going to do X, Y, Z, your EDIAcommitments are going to be on point.
(14:32):
You are professional development,your pay equity, your
compensation, your gender parity.
And then the troublemakerswill weaponize that.
And say you're asking for too much.
So what
are your thoughts on that?
Oh, it's funny that you bring that upbecause you and I, that initial meeting
we had around your young leaders podcastand me reaching out and saying, Hey,
(14:55):
can I borrow those young leaders?
Can I have that dialogue with them?
From with my audience sothat I can understand.
So that they can understand.
So those young leaders you're talkingabout are the ones I think you're
referring to, the insistence on, again,being fully authentic as uh, more fully
and there's no such thing as fully, butthan we ever had permission to be, or an
(15:15):
expectation that we would be able to be.
Mm-hmm . So there's thisbeautiful and difficult.
Fact and truth that, and everythingthat comes along with that and
bringing up fuller self, right?
The mental health challenges, thesupport that's needed, it's the,
in me, the way I see what you'retalking about is it's beyond the
capabilities of most structured.
(15:39):
EDIA efforts, it's just havenot been scaffolded yet.
There is not the support.
There's not the resources.
There's not the understanding.
There's not the education.
There's not the terminology.
Every time I pull now, Farah, in myrooms, mental health is the number
one diversity dimension because Iinclude it along race and ethnicity
(16:00):
and socioeconomic and gender identity.
Mental health being number one.
And yes, it's sharedacross all identities too.
So that's why that number is sohigh, but it is really high, really.
The question you asked is so true,which is the expectation that all of
me will be taken care of is a tallorder for organizations who've never,
(16:22):
who had never provided that before.
The question you'reasking is, should they?
And that I don't have an answer for it.
I think about it a lot, too.
Where does the boundary begin andend of the organization's role?
In the human's happiness in thatorganization and human's ability to thrive
and the support that human needs and isexpecting and can we go halfway towards
(16:47):
be authentic here, but by the way, we'regoing to draw the line on health here, and
this is our responsibility on our side ofthe line, and this is your responsibility.
Well, I think we're sorting that out.
And also you said, whatif it's weaponized?
I think, yes, it is being right nowwe've got this unfortunate polarization,
(17:08):
I think, between the expectations ofyounger, especially younger workers and
the sort of fear that the organizationhas on the other side, which is that
they're nipping at our heels, analyzingeverything we do, everything we say,
all the programs we send to peoplecalling us woke, calling us bad business
and perpetuating this and enabling it.
(17:28):
I haven't even heard from theleft, the enabling to, I don't
think it's just uniquely somethingthat's coming from the right.
I think it's like there's part ofthis that's a legitimate question,
which is what do we owe our people?
What do we owe them?
Do we owe them a statement onevery single social movement?
Do we owe them the ability to not showup for work because of mental health
(17:49):
challenges or caregiving or dependingon the day, depending on the hour?
Do we allow people to opt out and opt inso that they can maintain their health?
I don't know.
I think it probably depends whoyou ask in the organization.
Managers, leaders, individuals, right?
Everybody probably is gettingheld accountable for different
levels of results, and that getsmore and more intense, obviously.
(18:13):
You have more responsibility you have andthe different generations we have in the
workplace have different expectations.
We were raised in different eras whereit wasn't even possible to ask for the
accommodation and the resources andthe flexibility that people are asking
for now, there are a lot of fracturesgoing on in all of these dynamics.
(18:34):
And I'd love to ask you the same question.
Where do you think this is all going?
And is there a way for all of youdifferent stakeholders with different
Meaning different expectations,different accountability, different
political win and pressures.
How does one honor all of.
And is that the point, isthe point to shoot for the
middle and make nobody happy?
(18:56):
Is the point to rotate in one directionor the other towards the, towards the
past, towards the political environment?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I love, I just want to lift upthe, I don't know, and I will
enjoy hearing my response.
And I also want to lift upsomething you said earlier, the
naming is so important, right?
The reason I put forth this questionand I'll share my own why around where
(19:20):
it comes up in the work that I do.
I think it's important to talk aboutwhat we are experiencing without the
pressure or need to have the answer.
Without that, and that wascoming back to Farsight Friday.
It's like, what are the topicsthat are historically taboo, right?
We, the more we talk aboutsomething, the more it's normalized.
(19:43):
And so if we can just acknowledgethe existence that we are in a time
where things are radically shiftingand we don't know what right is or
where this is going, it helps ussee each other in a different light.
It helps us see each other asmoving through change together.
And that's encouraging because thereminder that we've done this before,
(20:06):
we have some competency to do it andthat change is the only constant.
So that change, agility, growth,mindset, and empathy are honestly
these competencies that have not beenrewarded, encouraged, or embedded in
the past, and they are emerging now.
And the best leaders, the most effectiveleaders are going to do these things well.
(20:27):
And I think those of us in these rolesthat you and I inhabit can set that
vision, can describe what that lookslike, feels like, both for the leader
exhibiting it and walking that journeyand also the person around that reader
and what that experience could feel like.
And we are vision keepersand we're vision creators.
And I think the people that do what youand I do, we say, this is what it could
(20:49):
look like, be like, it's what it wouldenable, and this is going to be hard.
And the hard thing, I think I want toask you where we're leaders stuck or
struggling with all of these questions,not answers with the willingness and
ability to show up with not answersand frame if the real superpower of the
(21:10):
future is to frame as well, framing andcontextualizing, connecting dots without
answering, avoiding agree, disagree, but.
Providing context, can leaders leaninto that and how much of a shift did
that from how so many of us I thinklearned to lead and what we're really
(21:31):
comfortable and uncomfortable with.
I love the term vision keepers and Ifeel like the work is to embed that
as a core competency of not justmaking your business profitable.
And forecasting your five to seven yearstrategy, but also what is our vision for
(21:52):
the company in terms of how we do work?
And I think, so I wearso many different hats.
There's the executive coach,there's the consultant, there's
the strategist, there is the datagatherer and analyzer speaker, right?
And so that is where this iscoming up more and more, right?
With my coaching clients, likewe're constantly grappling with.
(22:16):
Where does self regulation andself management start and end,
and when the expectation and toorganization helping with that
begin, well, where should it, right?
And that changes depending on who you talkto and what level of seniority and work
experience one has, including generationalexperiences, to your point, what we
were given permission to do and say andask for and where we built resilience.
(22:41):
The other pieces, how has, how wedo work and live our lives and our
proximity to our screens, impactingour neural pathways, impacting the
brain, impacting mindset, right?
And again, how much ofthat is personal choice?
How much of that isorganizational expectation?
Where is the balance in between?
(23:04):
So these are very lofty aspects to bethinking about, but I think it's really
important to interrogate and to startvisioning of like, where can we go?
What do we want to try?
Where do we want toengage in conversation?
Where do we want to put in an experimentalsystem and process and see how that.
Pilots out, I think right now, the biggestchallenge you asked, where do leaders
(23:26):
struggle, our good old friend resistanceto change and self interest, any leaders
who are coming at leading through thosepieces and fear of change, sometimes
resistance is the surface and theunderneath is just fear and uncertainty.
And taking a chance on something.
And I wouldn't even call it risktaking as much as innovation.
(23:48):
Right now, we're in a time of innovation.
Of how we do work andhow we create systems.
Because if you're a vision keeper, youare currently in an aspirational space.
And if we can collectively buildour reality, that then is the bridge
to the next set of visionings.
As much as this year has felt dark anddisillusioning because of the attacks
(24:13):
and the politicization, there is,maybe I'm the eternal optimist here.
For me, this is that exciting time of.
Let's keep interrogating.
Let's keep moving that needle forward.
And the leaders who have that mindsetthat have built that resilience of
we're going to do all of the noisearound us, but here's how we do things.
(24:35):
They're able to create that semblanceof stability for their people.
Where do you think leadersare having a hard time?
Yeah, I agree with you that fear ofchange resistance, you've got to get
underneath resistance to understandwhat the fear comes from to, I
believe, meet people where they'reat with the right information and the
(24:56):
right amount that may be communicatedin a language that's understood.
And really, somebody's able to digestand metabolize that information.
So, it's so much about audience and usperformers, we know it's all about co
creating and learning is co created.
(25:17):
It is, it's as much incumbent on afacilitator to understand where's this
group, where are the people withinthis group, they're all in different
places, how do I give a little of this,a little of that, a taste of this?
How do I enable?
I'm often asked about talks I give,like, how do I manage an audience
that's in so many different places?
And I don't mean physically.
From a learning perspective,how am I an effective speaker
(25:40):
speaking to such a diversity ofstages in the learning process?
And such a diversity of levels ofawareness and understanding about
different identities, too, wassomething we were talking about earlier.
That is like the perennial challengeof a teacher, particularly a
speaker, because you get one shot.
And it is on my mind a lot and I thinkit's like a threading the needle.
(26:01):
It's all the metaphors.
It's dancing on the head of a pin.
I always want to getmore and more precise.
And yet I want everyone to getsomething out of something.
And so it's this task of movingthem in the messy middle, moving
the leaders and the early adopters.
It's moving the light, those wholie behind and are resist actively
resistant or passively resistantand moving everybody forward.
(26:25):
But I'm just such a firm believer inthinking through what can be absorbed.
Violent human that I have amoment with, or I have a moment
where people share my voice.
And I, just, it's suchan interesting question.
Yeah.
And I'm like, how do you do that?
I always say it takes all of us to bringeveryone along because I know, I love
that you say that, but it's so crucial.
(26:45):
It's like when I'm workingwith an entire organization.
Same thing when you're givinga talk, how do you do that?
What is that?
And I bet you it's not amagic pill or a statement.
Yeah,
I would ask you the same question.
I think that's why built this model.
First of all, I admitthat I am many places.
I think that's so important to humanizeourselves because if we're put on
(27:09):
a pedestal, it just takes a momentto say I am on this journey too.
So that's super important because thatI think diffuses this perfectionistic
tendency that we all have.
And I'm struggling along and I'vegot my biases and I'm working.
You are too.
And we're all in this together.
So it levels that.
And then I also say we can be manypieces at once, it's complex, so
(27:32):
there's not one answer and alsothere's not one speed of learning.
That we may accelerate during a certainperiod of time because we're in a
working relationship with someone ofa certain identity and our learning
curve is really steep and thenothers will be, it'd be more like a
fallow time, a time of reflection.
So I think leveling with peopleand saying, it's okay, I'm here to.
(27:56):
Encourage you and maybe spark somethingand I'm here to encourage, like the
encouragement I think is really important.
I always want to be encouraging.
I think that's the energy Ibring is a, you can do this.
And the vision keeper doesn'tjust put this vision out there.
Good vision setters and keepers andcreators figure out how can I come back
(28:17):
and say, here's what you can do andhere's where you fit in that vision and.
I think perhaps over the last couple ofyears in our headlong rush to progress
and pursuing that bending of the arc ofthe moral universe, somehow some folks
felt like I wasn't in this, but I'm beingeither dragged along or I don't belong,
or I don't have a role to play, or I'mnot important in this equation, or I
(28:39):
don't have any way to really contributeto all the changes around me, and that
leads to alienation and loneliness.
And those are the problems of our timeand you add alienation and loneliness
from the things that you and I focuson and teach and you add in the chaos
and the uncertainty of the world that'sswirling around and it's a recipe
(29:01):
for disaster for us to make progress.
And like you say, go forward together.
I'm going to not get it right, whichyou just said, but that, that, that
sentiment of moving forward together.
And co creating with everyone, notjust co create this with the choir
and the believers and those of uswho have been doing this a long time.
And it can be very enticing tojust be in this comfort zone
(29:24):
and stay in this echo chamber.
But I think a lot about how havewe been really disciplined enough
about
gathering and making this tentas big as it needs to be and
grabbing those on the edge.
And grabbing those outside thetent and welcoming them in.
Have we made a pathway for thatto participate in the vision?
(29:44):
And that's, that takes a lotof patience and a lot of grace.
It's a lot.
It's very humbling, the levelof patience that it takes.
I think there is something, if I wereto synthesize what you said, right?
Isolation and loneliness, my goodness.
And that of the direct connection that hasto mental health anxiety and all the rest.
And that direct connection that hasto increase screen time and seeking
(30:08):
needs of validation and affirmation.
And in non human ways, let's say, Ithink in those moments, the growth
mindset of what can I learn in thismoment where there is one focus in the
community that I'm in, which makes mefeel more alienated or more isolated.
Instead of.
Leaning back, if we could engage our owncuriosity, engage our own growth mindset.
(30:31):
I am a firm believer thatlearning can help us locate
ourselves in that community.
But it
takes that level of initiation, right?
It takes that, and sometimes ithelps to have a guide in there.
Locating ourselves in our currentstructures, in our systems, in
our communities is so important.
And for me, that comes with listening andlearning, that comes with being in diverse
(30:55):
conversations where you are, you, and it'sdifferent from agreement and disagreement,
but
it's that location is that stepping stoneto belonging and psychological safety
from knowing nothing about this group,I know a little something about this
group, and maybe that'll encourage me toactually ask a question or to engage with
(31:16):
them in a different way moving forward.
You don't know what that moment can do.
And the other part, which is so important.
You are so many things.
I am so many things.
We're at the intersection of so much.
And so the other part of growth mindsetand listening and learning is when
you start engaging with curiosityinto a different world, you can start
(31:39):
seeing the intersections of, Oh,they also have this moment that I do.
They've also had this, and thatis why we just need to lift up
our humanity with each other.
That's crucial.
Love it.
I love
it,
Farah.
We're over time, but what you just saidabout leaning into identities that you
don't carry, even those that you do,I think we're all actually learning
(32:02):
about ourselves, like discoveringthings and neurodiversity being one.
I think a lot of people have goneon the journey with their kiddos,
and they've also gone on the journeythemselves, just so many beautiful
stories of discovery through others.
And through the circumstances andthrough the systems that you begin to
sensitize yourself to your point of whatam I inside and what am I outside of?
(32:24):
What's comfortable for me,what's not comfortable?
And you have three episodes so far,you have 14 total in this season one,
focused on identity, and I was just,I would just encourage everybody and
ask you to tell us where we can dothe listening that you're talking
about And noticing of the discomfort.
And it may just be, Hey, thisis a language in a community
(32:46):
that I'm not a part of.
Yeah.
Let me listen more.
Let me lean into this.
Let me stay with.
The not knowing, let me notice thatthis isn't a system that I have personal
experience with, and let me removethe agree, disagree, and just absorb.
Yeah.
And I
think that's what your podcastsencourage me to do when I listen to them.
(33:06):
I have to go back and listenagain and go back and listen and
I say, Oh, I didn't know that.
Oh, I'm going to add that.
I'm going to investigate or research that.
I'm going to notice that it's notsomething that I hear very often.
And why is that?
Well, that's because I'm in asystem that doesn't talk about that.
That much or at all, that's thesort of a growth mindset kicking in.
And it's a beautiful place to be.
(33:28):
And I think for us humans, we haveto, I think we have to be learning.
And being in curiosity is one of themost like sacred places we can be.
And, it sparks our purpose to endthe longing weirdly, because even
though you're noticing that you'reoutside, I think you just said,
maybe perhaps someday I may be morea part of this discussion as I learn.
(33:51):
And that aspiring to belong to maybeas many communities as we can is a
hedge against that loneliness andthat isolation that we talk about.
So this is actually our effortto feel a part of things.
Even if we move from the sort ofperiphery of it a couple steps
in, I think that can go a long waytowards combating this epidemic of
(34:12):
loneliness that we hear a lot about.
Well, thank you for everything you'vedone, are doing, the way you're
continuing to give, put things infront of us and in our heads, ears,
sights, senses, as we do, so that wecan learn from all that you elevate.
Far up and thanks for just everythingyou do personally and all the
education you provide in me.
I'm really grateful.
(34:33):
Likewise, Jennifer, thank youfor inviting me into space again.
I love that.
I feel like this is anannual thing with us.
We get in conversation andthank you for what you do.
You, in terms of your advocacy andallyship and your very unique voice
in this world, we need everyone.
So much gratitude and appreciation.
(34:53):
We continue the exploration ofworkplace culture with our next
episode, the HR EDIA relationship.
Thank you for listening to Farsight Chats.
I hope that this episode is the startto future conversations you have with
your colleagues, teams, and communities.
Subscribe now to Farsight Chatswherever you get your podcasts.
(35:14):
And don't forget to follow us onInstagram and Facebook at GoFarsight,
LinkedIn at the Farsight Agency, andcheck out our website, gofarsight.
com, to know more aboutwho we are and what we do.
Thank you for answering the call todo more, do better, and do different.
Welcome to Farsight Chats, your guideto navigating complex and important
conversations on workplace culture.
I'm your host, Farah Bala.
Founder and CEO of Farsight.
We specialize in leadership andorganizational development, focusing
on equity, diversity, and inclusionas core leadership competencies.
(00:22):
Join us in these conversationsthat aim to foster understanding,
growth, and positive change.
On our new series of episodes, wefeature leadership conversations
focused on healthy workplace culture.
With formidable heads of HR, EDIA,which is Equity, Diversity, Inclusion,
and Anti Oppression, employee resourcegroups, executive coaches, and
(00:46):
global practitioners and leaders.
We're experiencing rapid policy changeswithin companies in 2025, and this
conversation becomes even more important.
We need a steady leadership voicewithin every organization that
emphasizes its values, purpose,and commitments to its employees.
I was invited to join Jennifer Brownas a guest on her podcast, The Will
(01:10):
to Change, in the fall of 2024.
Jennifer is an award winningentrepreneur, speaker, best selling
author, and leadership expert.
She wanted to interview me for the launchof our podcast, Farsight Chats, but we
ended up having a powerful conversationon moral progress in business leadership.
(01:30):
A visionary dialogue on what'spossible for the future of
inclusive workplace cultures.
And we want to share thisconversation with you today.
As you listen in, we inviteyou to consider, how would you
rate your company's progress increating healthy cultures and
promoting equity and inclusion?
Is it performative?
(01:51):
Or is it truly embedded inthe systems and policies?
How is your organization supportingyou and your colleagues psychological
well being in the workplace?
Especially given the current pandemic.
Chaos of this year and theattacks and marginalized groups.
And lastly, if you had it your way,what is your vision for your company?
Where everyone feelsseen, heard, and valued.
(02:16):
Join us on this journey oflearning and unlearning in
today's episode of Farsight Chats.
Ara, Paula, welcome.
Here we are and here we have been,honestly, you and I for years now.
I just have known you are doingamazing work in the way you do it.
(02:38):
We share performance backgrounds, youand I we have a lot actually in common
and a lot not for sure that I have valuedso much and you're just incredible.
So I just wanted to be here.
Talk about your incredible podcast series.
That is the edited version of years ofinterviews and programming that you had.
(03:01):
Over the last five years, and I canrelate because I've had a podcast for
seven years and many community calls.
And now you and I are the kinds ofconveners and facilitators that have
these ongoing deep libraries of incrediblehumans and change makers and stories and
data, and we sit atop this and what you'vedone with yours, I think is so creative.
(03:25):
If you introduce yourself to at least thefolks that are coming in from my LinkedIn
world, and then we have people coming infrom yours, hopefully too, but tell us
more about who you are and how this seriesgerminated and what the history of it is
and what you're pulling forward into thesenow a few episodes, but to be many more
as we go into the later part of the year.
(03:46):
Yeah first of all, thank you forinviting me into this conversation.
I feel like we met in 2020.
I remember this very well becauseFarsight Friday had just started and
you had retreated our young leadersround table, we did a two part series.
And that is how you and I connected.
And then you brought me intoone of your community calls.
(04:07):
You will, and a guest on Farsight Friday.
Okay.
So who am I?
Farah Bala, I'm the founderand CEO of Farsight.
We are leadership and organizationaldevelopment agency, full service,
with a focus and prioritization ofthe concepts and practices of EDIA.
So we're using differentacronyms right now.
For us, it's equity, diversity, inclusion,anti oppression, and Farsight Chats,
(04:30):
which is our podcast that we launchedthis summer, is a re imagining of
Farsight Friday, which was this veryorganic socialization of conversation
that occurred in 2020, in the springof 2020, when people just wanted
to talk and were willing to listenin new and deep and different ways.
And I found myself.
Repeating the kinds of conversationsmultiple times in a day, as
(04:52):
I'm sure was the case with youand so many of our community.
And I was like, okay, this got,this has to be sustainable for
me, but also let's widen the net.
And so I'm blown away that howfive seasons just flew by and those
episodes live on our website, but.
I needed to give it intentional time tosay, we need to widen our listenership.
(05:15):
And the goal was always to get onthe Spotify's and Apple Podcasts
and the audio space of things.
But this year is finally when wehave the time and capacity to dig in.
Season one, which is a total of 13 or14 episodes is just focused on identity.
All realms and forms of identity so far.
And the motivation behind this iseducation, creating more capacity
(05:38):
to listening and learning spaces.
Because that is, I think, the foundationupon which we can even start to
build and conceive healthy cultures.
We have to learn, you know, we'recurrently in a very polarized being
right culture and just to be ableto expose ourselves to different
perspectives is so important.
And then the last thing I'll say,what I love about this particular
(06:00):
season, that's focused on identity is.
Because I'm relistening to these episodesfrom years ago, not only are they as
timely and imminent as needed today asthey were then, but they really put the
humanity in place because of the termidentity politics and the politicizing
of everything is just so heightened rightnow to, and to hear from experts and
(06:23):
humans who live this on a day to day.
It's transformational.
I can imagine the
choice of what you bring from five yearsof conversations, what you had to choose
in this first season is about identity,not identity politics, but identity.
Let's bring the human back inand that it's timeless too.
(06:43):
As much as it's changing quickly,our understanding of identity, our
terminology for identity, identities thatweren't on our radar screen and now are.
But I imagine choosing where to startand particularly what to highlight was
difficult or was it not and it justemerged to you and it was very clear
that I need to start with identityand your first three episodes, all
(07:05):
of which I've listened to, one ison language mattering, one is on
the evolving science of unconsciousbias, which I highly recommend.
I found that deeply interesting.
And then one on gender identity,which is a topic I know deeply.
Yes, we all have gender identities.
I was going to say not from a livedexperience when it comes to trans and
gender non binary friends and lovedones, but certainly you featured some
(07:28):
voices that I know personally andthat I've learned so much from you.
Was it an easy choice?
Was it very intuitive?
Was it hard?
I know you have another season plannedwhere you're going to probably get
to some of the other jewels in your
life.
I love that question.
It emerged, to be honest, Jennifer,the way those topics were being
planned was, as are you, justplugged into various communities.
(07:50):
And I would just surface topics thatjust felt the loudest at the time.
And so those episodes arenot as seamlessly aligned.
And so when there was anopportunity to reimagine this, I
was constantly asking, what is thethreat here at the end of the day?
And these episodes lifted up.
I don't think we have.
Next any before this season for, thereare a couple of episodes we won't
(08:14):
be able to use just because of audioquality as Zoom was getting better
because all of this was done on Zoom.
Season two is also, it's going tobe pretty self emergent because
it gets us into the organization.
With how we talk about HR and DEIrelationship and partnership, women's
leadership, the value of employeeresource groups, the internet section
(08:35):
of solidarity, that the opportunitythere, you are, your episode on intrusive
leadership, when your book launched,that's a really powerful one of, with
your frameworks and how we can justlift up from allyship to advocacy and
more activation of all of this work.
Yeah.
I, my question for you is.
(08:57):
Given the time that we are currentlyin, we already spoke about the high
polarization and the politicizationof everything and the blatant
attacks on DEI practitioners.
From your perspective and expertise, whatdoes healthy culture look like today?
Piggybacking on where you started to focuswith the season, identity continues to be.
(09:20):
Honestly, top of mind, it's sucha learning frontier for all of us.
It's a moving target.
It's a language question.
It is a self awareness andexploration, a deepening of our own
authenticity journey, and maimingthings is one of the most powerful.
Elements of change to ourselves.
(09:42):
Like people think that we do this to betroublemakers or to wield it in some way
as a way of control or a way of shaming,et cetera, but it's such a beautiful
process of hearing, seeing and witnessed.
And so I think that's what's lost in thisdialogue and the way that unfortunately
(10:03):
people who know nothing about ithave reframed it and truly stolen it.
And I use that word because ultimatelyto be seen, heard, witnessed, I
like witnessed too because I don'tlike to use ableist words like
seen and heard and stop there.
One thing I've really been thinkingabout, like what's a better way to
capture this, but to be witnessedor experienced, to be valued, to
(10:26):
be in partnership with in a trustedRelationship with trust is really big too.
So I just think that this stuff iswhat gets in the way of performance and
belonging and these fundamental buildingblocks of Maslow hierarchy of performance.
Because ultimately that stability thatwe need to feel in ourselves about
(10:48):
who we are and then with each otheris the foundation of that pyramid.
And we can only move up to creativityand innovation and one plus one
equals three when we're generating.
Idea and solutions with otherhumans, which we do because that's
what the work world is basedon still until that changes.
And we're doing that with AI, whoknows what's ahead, but for now,
(11:12):
that foundation is where it startsor doesn't it and gets broken, right?
And it begins to have the hairlinefractures and then it fractures.
Unfortunately.
Because we don't feel witnessed andvalued and others don't even know how
they are perpetuating that feeling in usand that disconnect, that gap between the
(11:33):
learner, there's learning on both sides.
There's learning to show up withmore authenticity and fullness and be
brave and courageous in doing that.
And then there's the grace to receivethe learning and share the learning back.
Amongst those that are in asystem that are relatively more
comfortable in that system.
Yeah.
That's the dynamic.
And I know you and I live in thatintersection asking these really curious
(11:57):
questions about what gets in the way ofthis beautiful thing that can be created
when there is a seamlessness to it.
It's never going to be smoothper se, but that's actually this
beautiful, creative abrasion.
You have a tension of not knowing,not understanding, coming to
understand, coming towards eachother through those differences and
(12:17):
with, not in spite of, with thosedifferences is where the magic happens.
And that's, I think that's the juiceof our system working and also our
sense of purpose too, goodness.
Like at the end of the day, it's notjust about making companies successful.
It's about.
All of us finding why are we here?
How can I be of service?
How can I use everythingin me that contribute?
(12:40):
And I think we all deep down really wantto do that and say that we did that.
Want to have that legacyand that mark on the world.
I
love what you said.
What especially stood out for me, thestability of how we are being together.
I just love that.
And for me, that brings ourother social groups, right?
We have family, we have schoolsystems, we have universities.
(13:02):
There is a stability within thatof how we are with each other.
And with organizations, if you are doingit well, you have such a breadth of
diversity of thought, background, culture,experience, expertise coming through.
That seems to be the most nebulousand ever changing and shifting.
And what that stability looks likeneeds to constantly be interrogated.
(13:24):
And what might look stable even fiveyears ago is not the case right now.
And to your point of whatgets in the way, I think.
Insisting on how things have been in thepast, interesting on things that work
for a select few or for self interestor for business interest exclusively.
Those are the things that, that createa chasm and creates that instability.
(13:46):
The other thing that comes up for me is,and I'm curious what you think about this.
There is so much shift, right?
In just how work happens inworkplaces, influence of AI, influence
of hybrid working environments.
I am seeing a significant shiftof how much a human, and I'm
(14:08):
looking for the right word.
It's not dependence as much as trustingan organization or trusting their
workplace to take care of certain needs.
And I feel that percentagehas increased over time.
There is an expectation that if I amgoing to be here at this organization,
you are going to do X, Y, Z, your EDIAcommitments are going to be on point.
(14:32):
You are professional development,your pay equity, your
compensation, your gender parity.
And then the troublemakerswill weaponize that.
And say you're asking for too much.
So what
are your thoughts on that?
Oh, it's funny that you bring that upbecause you and I, that initial meeting
we had around your young leaders podcastand me reaching out and saying, Hey,
(14:55):
can I borrow those young leaders?
Can I have that dialogue with them?
From with my audience sothat I can understand.
So that they can understand.
So those young leaders you're talkingabout are the ones I think you're
referring to, the insistence on, again,being fully authentic as uh, more fully
and there's no such thing as fully, butthan we ever had permission to be, or an
(15:15):
expectation that we would be able to be.
Mm-hmm . So there's thisbeautiful and difficult.
Fact and truth that, and everythingthat comes along with that and
bringing up fuller self, right?
The mental health challenges, thesupport that's needed, it's the,
in me, the way I see what you'retalking about is it's beyond the
capabilities of most structured.
(15:39):
EDIA efforts, it's just havenot been scaffolded yet.
There is not the support.
There's not the resources.
There's not the understanding.
There's not the education.
There's not the terminology.
Every time I pull now, Farah, in myrooms, mental health is the number
one diversity dimension because Iinclude it along race and ethnicity
(16:00):
and socioeconomic and gender identity.
Mental health being number one.
And yes, it's sharedacross all identities too.
So that's why that number is sohigh, but it is really high, really.
The question you asked is so true,which is the expectation that all of
me will be taken care of is a tallorder for organizations who've never,
(16:22):
who had never provided that before.
The question you'reasking is, should they?
And that I don't have an answer for it.
I think about it a lot, too.
Where does the boundary begin andend of the organization's role?
In the human's happiness in thatorganization and human's ability to thrive
and the support that human needs and isexpecting and can we go halfway towards
(16:47):
be authentic here, but by the way, we'regoing to draw the line on health here, and
this is our responsibility on our side ofthe line, and this is your responsibility.
Well, I think we're sorting that out.
And also you said, whatif it's weaponized?
I think, yes, it is being right nowwe've got this unfortunate polarization,
(17:08):
I think, between the expectations ofyounger, especially younger workers and
the sort of fear that the organizationhas on the other side, which is that
they're nipping at our heels, analyzingeverything we do, everything we say,
all the programs we send to peoplecalling us woke, calling us bad business
and perpetuating this and enabling it.
(17:28):
I haven't even heard from theleft, the enabling to, I don't
think it's just uniquely somethingthat's coming from the right.
I think it's like there's part ofthis that's a legitimate question,
which is what do we owe our people?
What do we owe them?
Do we owe them a statement onevery single social movement?
Do we owe them the ability to not showup for work because of mental health
(17:49):
challenges or caregiving or dependingon the day, depending on the hour?
Do we allow people to opt out and opt inso that they can maintain their health?
I don't know.
I think it probably depends whoyou ask in the organization.
Managers, leaders, individuals, right?
Everybody probably is gettingheld accountable for different
levels of results, and that getsmore and more intense, obviously.
(18:13):
You have more responsibility you have andthe different generations we have in the
workplace have different expectations.
We were raised in different eras whereit wasn't even possible to ask for the
accommodation and the resources andthe flexibility that people are asking
for now, there are a lot of fracturesgoing on in all of these dynamics.
(18:34):
And I'd love to ask you the same question.
Where do you think this is all going?
And is there a way for all of youdifferent stakeholders with different
Meaning different expectations,different accountability, different
political win and pressures.
How does one honor all of.
And is that the point, isthe point to shoot for the
middle and make nobody happy?
(18:56):
Is the point to rotate in one directionor the other towards the, towards the
past, towards the political environment?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I love, I just want to lift upthe, I don't know, and I will
enjoy hearing my response.
And I also want to lift upsomething you said earlier, the
naming is so important, right?
The reason I put forth this questionand I'll share my own why around where
(19:20):
it comes up in the work that I do.
I think it's important to talk aboutwhat we are experiencing without the
pressure or need to have the answer.
Without that, and that wascoming back to Farsight Friday.
It's like, what are the topicsthat are historically taboo, right?
We, the more we talk aboutsomething, the more it's normalized.
(19:43):
And so if we can just acknowledgethe existence that we are in a time
where things are radically shiftingand we don't know what right is or
where this is going, it helps ussee each other in a different light.
It helps us see each other asmoving through change together.
And that's encouraging because thereminder that we've done this before,
(20:06):
we have some competency to do it andthat change is the only constant.
So that change, agility, growth,mindset, and empathy are honestly
these competencies that have not beenrewarded, encouraged, or embedded in
the past, and they are emerging now.
And the best leaders, the most effectiveleaders are going to do these things well.
(20:27):
And I think those of us in these rolesthat you and I inhabit can set that
vision, can describe what that lookslike, feels like, both for the leader
exhibiting it and walking that journeyand also the person around that reader
and what that experience could feel like.
And we are vision keepersand we're vision creators.
And I think the people that do what youand I do, we say, this is what it could
(20:49):
look like, be like, it's what it wouldenable, and this is going to be hard.
And the hard thing, I think I want toask you where we're leaders stuck or
struggling with all of these questions,not answers with the willingness and
ability to show up with not answersand frame if the real superpower of the
(21:10):
future is to frame as well, framing andcontextualizing, connecting dots without
answering, avoiding agree, disagree, but.
Providing context, can leaders leaninto that and how much of a shift did
that from how so many of us I thinklearned to lead and what we're really
(21:31):
comfortable and uncomfortable with.
I love the term vision keepers and Ifeel like the work is to embed that
as a core competency of not justmaking your business profitable.
And forecasting your five to seven yearstrategy, but also what is our vision for
(21:52):
the company in terms of how we do work?
And I think, so I wearso many different hats.
There's the executive coach,there's the consultant, there's
the strategist, there is the datagatherer and analyzer speaker, right?
And so that is where this iscoming up more and more, right?
With my coaching clients, likewe're constantly grappling with.
(22:16):
Where does self regulation andself management start and end,
and when the expectation and toorganization helping with that
begin, well, where should it, right?
And that changes depending on who you talkto and what level of seniority and work
experience one has, including generationalexperiences, to your point, what we
were given permission to do and say andask for and where we built resilience.
(22:41):
The other pieces, how has, how wedo work and live our lives and our
proximity to our screens, impactingour neural pathways, impacting the
brain, impacting mindset, right?
And again, how much ofthat is personal choice?
How much of that isorganizational expectation?
Where is the balance in between?
(23:04):
So these are very lofty aspects to bethinking about, but I think it's really
important to interrogate and to startvisioning of like, where can we go?
What do we want to try?
Where do we want toengage in conversation?
Where do we want to put in an experimentalsystem and process and see how that.
Pilots out, I think right now, the biggestchallenge you asked, where do leaders
(23:26):
struggle, our good old friend resistanceto change and self interest, any leaders
who are coming at leading through thosepieces and fear of change, sometimes
resistance is the surface and theunderneath is just fear and uncertainty.
And taking a chance on something.
And I wouldn't even call it risktaking as much as innovation.
(23:48):
Right now, we're in a time of innovation.
Of how we do work andhow we create systems.
Because if you're a vision keeper, youare currently in an aspirational space.
And if we can collectively buildour reality, that then is the bridge
to the next set of visionings.
As much as this year has felt dark anddisillusioning because of the attacks
(24:13):
and the politicization, there is,maybe I'm the eternal optimist here.
For me, this is that exciting time of.
Let's keep interrogating.
Let's keep moving that needle forward.
And the leaders who have that mindsetthat have built that resilience of
we're going to do all of the noisearound us, but here's how we do things.
(24:35):
They're able to create that semblanceof stability for their people.
Where do you think leadersare having a hard time?
Yeah, I agree with you that fear ofchange resistance, you've got to get
underneath resistance to understandwhat the fear comes from to, I
believe, meet people where they'reat with the right information and the
(24:56):
right amount that may be communicatedin a language that's understood.
And really, somebody's able to digestand metabolize that information.
So, it's so much about audience and usperformers, we know it's all about co
creating and learning is co created.
(25:17):
It is, it's as much incumbent on afacilitator to understand where's this
group, where are the people withinthis group, they're all in different
places, how do I give a little of this,a little of that, a taste of this?
How do I enable?
I'm often asked about talks I give,like, how do I manage an audience
that's in so many different places?
And I don't mean physically.
From a learning perspective,how am I an effective speaker
(25:40):
speaking to such a diversity ofstages in the learning process?
And such a diversity of levels ofawareness and understanding about
different identities, too, wassomething we were talking about earlier.
That is like the perennial challengeof a teacher, particularly a
speaker, because you get one shot.
And it is on my mind a lot and I thinkit's like a threading the needle.
(26:01):
It's all the metaphors.
It's dancing on the head of a pin.
I always want to getmore and more precise.
And yet I want everyone to getsomething out of something.
And so it's this task of movingthem in the messy middle, moving
the leaders and the early adopters.
It's moving the light, those wholie behind and are resist actively
resistant or passively resistantand moving everybody forward.
(26:25):
But I'm just such a firm believer inthinking through what can be absorbed.
Violent human that I have amoment with, or I have a moment
where people share my voice.
And I, just, it's suchan interesting question.
Yeah.
And I'm like, how do you do that?
I always say it takes all of us to bringeveryone along because I know, I love
that you say that, but it's so crucial.
(26:45):
It's like when I'm workingwith an entire organization.
Same thing when you're givinga talk, how do you do that?
What is that?
And I bet you it's not amagic pill or a statement.
Yeah,
I would ask you the same question.
I think that's why built this model.
First of all, I admitthat I am many places.
I think that's so important to humanizeourselves because if we're put on
(27:09):
a pedestal, it just takes a momentto say I am on this journey too.
So that's super important because thatI think diffuses this perfectionistic
tendency that we all have.
And I'm struggling along and I'vegot my biases and I'm working.
You are too.
And we're all in this together.
So it levels that.
And then I also say we can be manypieces at once, it's complex, so
(27:32):
there's not one answer and alsothere's not one speed of learning.
That we may accelerate during a certainperiod of time because we're in a
working relationship with someone ofa certain identity and our learning
curve is really steep and thenothers will be, it'd be more like a
fallow time, a time of reflection.
So I think leveling with peopleand saying, it's okay, I'm here to.
(27:56):
Encourage you and maybe spark somethingand I'm here to encourage, like the
encouragement I think is really important.
I always want to be encouraging.
I think that's the energy Ibring is a, you can do this.
And the vision keeper doesn'tjust put this vision out there.
Good vision setters and keepers andcreators figure out how can I come back
(28:17):
and say, here's what you can do andhere's where you fit in that vision and.
I think perhaps over the last couple ofyears in our headlong rush to progress
and pursuing that bending of the arc ofthe moral universe, somehow some folks
felt like I wasn't in this, but I'm beingeither dragged along or I don't belong,
or I don't have a role to play, or I'mnot important in this equation, or I
(28:39):
don't have any way to really contributeto all the changes around me, and that
leads to alienation and loneliness.
And those are the problems of our timeand you add alienation and loneliness
from the things that you and I focuson and teach and you add in the chaos
and the uncertainty of the world that'sswirling around and it's a recipe
(29:01):
for disaster for us to make progress.
And like you say, go forward together.
I'm going to not get it right, whichyou just said, but that, that, that
sentiment of moving forward together.
And co creating with everyone, notjust co create this with the choir
and the believers and those of uswho have been doing this a long time.
And it can be very enticing tojust be in this comfort zone
(29:24):
and stay in this echo chamber.
But I think a lot about how havewe been really disciplined enough
about
gathering and making this tentas big as it needs to be and
grabbing those on the edge.
And grabbing those outside thetent and welcoming them in.
Have we made a pathway for thatto participate in the vision?
(29:44):
And that's, that takes a lotof patience and a lot of grace.
It's a lot.
It's very humbling, the levelof patience that it takes.
I think there is something, if I wereto synthesize what you said, right?
Isolation and loneliness, my goodness.
And that of the direct connection that hasto mental health anxiety and all the rest.
And that direct connection that hasto increase screen time and seeking
(30:08):
needs of validation and affirmation.
And in non human ways, let's say, Ithink in those moments, the growth
mindset of what can I learn in thismoment where there is one focus in the
community that I'm in, which makes mefeel more alienated or more isolated.
Instead of.
Leaning back, if we could engage our owncuriosity, engage our own growth mindset.
(30:31):
I am a firm believer thatlearning can help us locate
ourselves in that community.
But it
takes that level of initiation, right?
It takes that, and sometimes ithelps to have a guide in there.
Locating ourselves in our currentstructures, in our systems, in
our communities is so important.
And for me, that comes with listening andlearning, that comes with being in diverse
(30:55):
conversations where you are, you, and it'sdifferent from agreement and disagreement,
but
it's that location is that stepping stoneto belonging and psychological safety
from knowing nothing about this group,I know a little something about this
group, and maybe that'll encourage me toactually ask a question or to engage with
(31:16):
them in a different way moving forward.
You don't know what that moment can do.
And the other part, which is so important.
You are so many things.
I am so many things.
We're at the intersection of so much.
And so the other part of growth mindsetand listening and learning is when
you start engaging with curiosityinto a different world, you can start
(31:39):
seeing the intersections of, Oh,they also have this moment that I do.
They've also had this, and thatis why we just need to lift up
our humanity with each other.
That's crucial.
Love it.
I love
it,
Farah.
We're over time, but what you just saidabout leaning into identities that you
don't carry, even those that you do,I think we're all actually learning
(32:02):
about ourselves, like discoveringthings and neurodiversity being one.
I think a lot of people have goneon the journey with their kiddos,
and they've also gone on the journeythemselves, just so many beautiful
stories of discovery through others.
And through the circumstances andthrough the systems that you begin to
sensitize yourself to your point of whatam I inside and what am I outside of?
(32:24):
What's comfortable for me,what's not comfortable?
And you have three episodes so far,you have 14 total in this season one,
focused on identity, and I was just,I would just encourage everybody and
ask you to tell us where we can dothe listening that you're talking
about And noticing of the discomfort.
And it may just be, Hey, thisis a language in a community
(32:46):
that I'm not a part of.
Yeah.
Let me listen more.
Let me lean into this.
Let me stay with.
The not knowing, let me notice thatthis isn't a system that I have personal
experience with, and let me removethe agree, disagree, and just absorb.
Yeah.
And I
think that's what your podcastsencourage me to do when I listen to them.
(33:06):
I have to go back and listenagain and go back and listen and
I say, Oh, I didn't know that.
Oh, I'm going to add that.
I'm going to investigate or research that.
I'm going to notice that it's notsomething that I hear very often.
And why is that?
Well, that's because I'm in asystem that doesn't talk about that.
That much or at all, that's thesort of a growth mindset kicking in.
And it's a beautiful place to be.
(33:28):
And I think for us humans, we haveto, I think we have to be learning.
And being in curiosity is one of themost like sacred places we can be.
And, it sparks our purpose to endthe longing weirdly, because even
though you're noticing that you'reoutside, I think you just said,
maybe perhaps someday I may be morea part of this discussion as I learn.
(33:51):
And that aspiring to belong to maybeas many communities as we can is a
hedge against that loneliness andthat isolation that we talk about.
So this is actually our effortto feel a part of things.
Even if we move from the sort ofperiphery of it a couple steps
in, I think that can go a long waytowards combating this epidemic of
(34:12):
loneliness that we hear a lot about.
Well, thank you for everything you'vedone, are doing, the way you're
continuing to give, put things infront of us and in our heads, ears,
sights, senses, as we do, so that wecan learn from all that you elevate.
Far up and thanks for just everythingyou do personally and all the
education you provide in me.
I'm really grateful.
(34:33):
Likewise, Jennifer, thank youfor inviting me into space again.
I love that.
I feel like this is anannual thing with us.
We get in conversation andthank you for what you do.
You, in terms of your advocacy andallyship and your very unique voice
in this world, we need everyone.
So much gratitude and appreciation.
(34:53):
We continue the exploration ofworkplace culture with our next
episode, the HR EDIA relationship.
Thank you for listening to Farsight Chats.
I hope that this episode is the startto future conversations you have with
your colleagues, teams, and communities.
Subscribe now to Farsight Chatswherever you get your podcasts.
(35:14):
And don't forget to follow us onInstagram and Facebook at GoFarsight,
LinkedIn at the Farsight Agency, andcheck out our website, gofarsight.
com, to know more aboutwho we are and what we do.
Thank you for answering the call todo more, do better, and do different.
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