June 13, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode of FARSIGHT Chats, hosted by Farah Bala, founder and CEO of FARSIGHT, the discussion centers on leadership, equity, and social justice in the workplace. Featuring perspectives from young leaders JanNie Kamara and Gentle Ramirez, the conversation explores how Gen Z challenges the status quo, values boundaries, and uses social media to drive change. Insights include the importance of transparency, self-care, and redefining work-life balance, emphasizing the next generation's commitment to creating inclusive and compassionate spaces. The episode highlights the collective power of storytelling, mutual aid, and disruptive innovation to build a more equitable world and the impact of the Black Lives Matter movement. They also discuss their personal experiences navigating leadership roles. Listeners are invited to engage with these fresh perspectives and consider how generational shifts influence workplace dynamics and societal expectations.
| KEY TOPICS DISCUSSED |
GEN Z IDENTITY & VALUES
- Gen Z is defined by challenging the status quo and setting strong personal boundaries.
- They are unapologetic about demanding equity, inclusion, and purpose in life and work.
- Purpose comes first—not something discovered later in life but something they lead with.
VISION FOR THE FUTURE
- Dream of a post-capitalist, community-driven world with collective care and less exploitative work structures (e.g., ending the 40-hour work week).
- Envision institutions that are intolerant of intolerance and actively anti-racist.
- Desire spaces that are brave, inclusive, and support marginalized voices authentically.
ACTIVISM & STRATEGY
- Engage in mutual aid, prison education programs, and grassroots organizing (e.g., Take Back the Bronx).
- Use student government and DEI advocacy to make leadership and information more accessible.
- Research historical student activism to drive present-day institutional accountability.
ROLE OF SOCIAL MEDIA
- Social media is a double-edged sword: a tool for mutual aid, storytelling, and rapid mobilization, but also a space for false narratives and validation traps.
- Effective when used with intentionality, credible sourcing, and emotional boundaries.
COMMUNICATION & MENTAL HEALTH
- COVID-19 has reshaped communication and deepened mental health challenges.
- Self-awareness, empathy, affirmations, and community check-ins are crucial.
- Compassion starts with self-care—put on your “oxygen mask” first.
WORKPLACE EXPECTATIONS
- Reject toxic hustle culture; Gen Z doesn’t “dream of labor.”
- Want workspaces that:
- Respect boundaries (clear stop times, mental health awareness).
- Value equity (pay transparency, anti-racist commitments).
- Are hybrid/flexible.
- Provide growth aligned with purpose, not just productivity.
- Gen Z is willing to walk away from inauthentic or extractive environments.
FINAL TAKEAWAY
- “You are not just going to get a skillset—you’re getting visionaries.”
- Companies must prepare for a generation that brings disruption, purpose, and a bold redefinition of leadership.
| WORKS CITED |
The Will To Change. Jennifer Brown. Podcast.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Welcome to Farsight Chats, your Guideto Navigating Complex and Important
Conversations on Workplace Culture.
I'm your host, Farah Bala,founder and CEO of Farsight.
We specialize in leadership andorganizational development, focusing
on equity, diversity, and inclusionas core leadership competencies.
(00:28):
Join us in these conversationsthat aim to foster, understanding,
growth and positive change.
Today, we bring you a fresh perspectiveon leadership in the workplace.
This is yet another collaborationwith author and thought leader
Jennifer Brown on her podcast.
The Will to Change called Gen ZVoices for a More Equitable World.
(00:49):
In the summer of 2020, I broughttogether a few young black leaders
in a round table discussion.
My goal was to understand their visionduring the rise of the Black Lives
Matter movement in 2020, and I wantedto learn more about how they were
using their voices and taking action.
When Jennifer heard about this, shewanted to bring this perspective
(01:10):
to her own podcast and askedme to host the conversation.
What you are about to hear isa rich discussion I had with
Janie Kamara and Gentle Ramirez.
Janie and Gentle were both students in2020 and now Janie is a legislative
aide in the US House of Representatives,and Gentle is pursuing a software
(01:30):
engineering career at JP Morgan Chase.
If you've been an avid listener ofFarsight Chats, you'll remember that
Gentle was also a guest on episode threeon gender identity.. You are about to
hear a unique and innovative expressionof resistance and an unapologetic
expectation of what healthy workplacesand communities should look like.
(01:53):
This is so important as our currentyoung voices are our future leaders.
Every new generation brings theirown curiosities and vision to
the table that older generationsdon't always see eye to eye with.
We are seeing that todayin generational divides.
So irrespective of what generationyou belong to, I invite you to bring
(02:17):
your full curiosity and open mind asyou listen to today's conversation.
Consider this, how has the surgeof new and constant threats in our
world fundamentally altered thelife goals for our young people?
How can we protect our young leaderswithin our communities and support them
(02:37):
as they build their own leadership?
Join us on this journey oflearning and unlearning.
In today's episode of Farsight Chats.
So, Janie and gentle first question.
Let's say you run into a timetraveler from centuries ago.
how do you explain your generationto someone from the past?
(03:02):
I would describe this generationas being willing and wanting
to challenge the status quo.
, I think for many people inmy generation, we have been,
I. Condition to not speak up.
But for us, that's very dissident ofwho we are as individuals, and for me
personally, I am never afraid to be theone to speak up on something that I find
(03:27):
is not inclusive or that I find is just.
Wrong with how it's functioning,, working in academia as a student
leader, , that's something I often dois speak up against things or challenge
the status quo or bring in new ideasthat challenge the institution or
challenge the structure that's in place.
And so I would just describethis generation as a generation
who's willing and wanting tojust challenge the status quo.
(03:50):
, I think my first word would be boundaries.
I think that this generation and mygeneration have opened my eyes to
how boundaries , are so important.
not letting someone overwork youor cross your boundaries in any way
because, that knowledge of self-worth,that knowledge of there's something
(04:11):
else that is better, I think hasalso been amplified by the internet.
when I think of, my generation andthe internet and the access and the
kind of knowing and knowledge thatis constantly shared, and just
buzzwords from therapy that areactually a part of our culture now.
And setting boundaries with each other.
Setting boundaries with anyoneand everyone because that is how
(04:34):
we plan to respect ourselvesand walk through the world.
So I think that, I would putboundaries in the definition
of Gen Z in the dictionary.
Beautiful.
Thank you.
So I've been, . Listening to a lot of,, Barack Obama interviews now that he's on
his book tour, and he did this interviewvery recently with, , Jimmy Fallon.
And, you know, everyone's askinghim about his daughters, what's
(04:56):
it been like to, , be with yourkids at home, et cetera, et cetera.
He said something that's reallypoignant that what two of you are
saying is pretty much mirroring.
He says this whole generationof young people coming up are
smart, thoughtful, sophisticated.
They really believe that everybody isequal, that we should treat everybody
fairly, that we don't like racism and wedon't like discriminating against people
(05:20):
because of their sexual orientation.
It's second nature to them, andthere is a courage and conviction
that they bring to it that really isinspiring and makes me optimistic.
It's a matter of us old heads gettingout of the way and making sure we don't
break things so badly that by the timethey're in charge, it's not too late.
So speaking of by the time you are incharge, I wanna connect, , boundaries with
(05:44):
something that, , Amber Heke said on lastweek's call that really resonated with me
when she said, in white supremacy culture,when you talk about social justice.
It's aspirational.
It has to be visioning.
You have to think from that space.
So what is your vision forthe world you wanna be in?
I'm an anarchist, communist.
My vision for the world is toeventually get away from capitalism,
(06:10):
get away from the 40 hour work week.
Live in a place where we care aboutour community members and we do a lot
of collective care and community care.
my envision for when I am in a spaceof leadership, so hopefully in 10,
15 years, I know, and I really don'tlike admitting it, but I know that
(06:31):
capitalism is not going to go away.
And I hope that it does eventually,but in my lifetime I would like to
see steps towards it dismantling.
And I think that ways in which that itcan dismantle is by, well, not little
things, but pieces of the puzzle.
So first things first is probably justgetting rid of the 40 hour work week.
(06:52):
So more people can have times fortheir own purposes and passions.
I'm at NYU and I worked 20 hours a weekand I also went to school full-time.
The way that I completely neglectedmyself because I needed to find a
means for survival, was something I didnot wanna do for the rest of my life.
And it was entirely for me connectedto power and connected to, elitism
(07:17):
and while I got through it, itwas not healthy for me at all.
So, , I would like to envisiona healthier world for people
like me and myself to live in.
completely echo everything you said . , Ithink for me in a social sense, I would
love to envision a world where we areintolerant of intolerance and that we
(07:39):
are creating spaces without having tobe told to create these spaces that
are safe and brave for marginalizedcommunities to go in and to be successful.
And I think that we're makingsteps to do that now, but I
think that we could do more.
, this generation's often very impatient.
I like to say that I'm an impatientperson because for me, I know what I want.
(08:01):
I understand the steps thatwe'll take to get there.
It's ultimately.
Individuals who have that sense of power,not wanting and willing to take that step
to be the out person, go against the crowdand be public with denouncing things.
And so in order for us to move forwardas society, we have to be outwardly
intolerant, intolerances be public withour condemnations of white supremacy,
(08:25):
of racism, and of other things thatcreate very harmful and hurtful spaces
that marginalized communities occupy.
And then we're lookingat an institutional way.
Everything that gentle just said.
For me, I want to keepon going in academia.
I'm taking a gap year next year, butI wanna go back and get my master's in
student affairs and higher educationand ultimately in that sphere, helping
(08:50):
students understand that you can comein wanting to go be a doctor and all
these wonderful things, but understandwhat is your purpose in life ultimately.
You can have an occupation, butwhat do you want to accomplish?
What do you wanna gain?
What do you wanna learn fromthis life that you are living so
that you feel whole and complete.
And so those are just the differentvisions I have for the world
(09:10):
that I wanna live in, in like10, 20, 15, however, so years.
And the other thing that I'm hearing,and I'm reflecting on a little
bit, 'cause , when I'm working withclients, , they're at the height
of their career sometimes, , in thecoaching, that I do, with executives.
and they're then starting to thinkabout, wait, is this my purpose or
is there something else going on?
(09:30):
And the stark difference thatI'm hearing here is that, oh no,
we are starting with purpose.
We know what purpose is.
We know what that feels like, or weknow what that wants to feel like.
And that's what's driving us.
So disruption 1 0 1 right there.
let me ask you what are you alreadydoing as, activist, as leaders,
as social justice advocates?
(09:51):
What are strategies that you've alreadydeployed, that you've seen success
with, , in the work that you do, , atuniversity, outside with your other
initiatives, bring us into, , how youare creating impact and making change.
So since about.
, 2018, I've been a part of multipledifferent organizations in New York.
(10:11):
I'll name two.
, one is the Take Backthe Bronx Organization.
It is a grassroots organization.
, mainly the phrase, , whoStreets Our streets.
It's about redistributing resources.
It's about, , giving out free food,giving out healthcare, giving out
health pPE, , mask and hand sanitizer,and, making sure that people know
where the shelters are and whateverelse they may need that we can provide.
(10:36):
Also, at NYU, I've been a part ofthe NYU Prison Education Program.
So my fellow peers or my fellowstudents who are studying, who are
currently incarcerated are still.
NYU community members and often thedissonance and dissonance because of
(10:57):
our differences in reality, separateand continue to make stuff hard on the
people who are currently incarcerated,who already have a challenge as it is.
being a part of the prison educationprogram has really changed my life
because I really thought that, NYU as aninstitution was not doing enough or not
(11:18):
really a part of the big NYC and thatit's something that NYU currently brags
is that it has all these opportunities inNew York City and to see NYU be a part of
the issues on Rikers Island and trying tomake sure that people who are, , released
in a hopeful, timely manner have a kindof stepping stone when they get out.
(11:39):
And, , just learning about incarcerationand learning about the carceral state
has completely been disheartening, butactually really amazing to see what a
difference someone like me who is stillin college can make while I'm still in
college and know that these are my fellowstudents and know that these are my fellow
graduating class members really likejust open my eyes up to what is possible.
(12:01):
I think for me, , I hope some of you arefamiliar with Miami University of Ohio.
We're in Oxford, Ohio, which is 30minutes north of Cincinnati, and
so for me it's very hard to get, I.Involved in Hamilton, Cincinnati
because it is so far away from me.
And because of that I've hadto do a lot of internal work at
Miami through student leadership.
So right out the bat , I got involvedin student government, I got involved
(12:22):
in DEI efforts, I got involved in otherareas that I wasn't too familiar with.
And so looking back on that, a lot of mywork has spin around making leadership
more accessible to other students.
Because students come in wanting tojust get their education and go, but
in that meantime, they're like, oh,I really care about this institution
that I am at, how do I get involved?
(12:44):
And so helping students understandthe power they have in addressing the
issues that arise at Miami and helpingstudents better understand how they
can get involved and make a meaningfulimpact during their time at Miami.
And so even this year when I waselected, , one of the first things I
did was just go upon different panelsand different interviews to help
(13:05):
people understand how they can getinvolved in this work of DEI or just
this work of social justice at Miami.
, and another thing that I do is also alot of research around student activism.
So I just finished up my capstone forthe semester where I'm looking at, I
miami's history of student activismand understanding what are those themes
that have been reoccurring when itcomes to , why students challenge and
(13:26):
protest on college campuses, and howcan we actually address that now , since
I have, and we have this information.
And so it's ultimately making leadershipmore accessible, making information
more accessible to students to helpthem understand that they can do
this work just as well as I can.
and so that's a lot ofmy work around that.
But in the institutionalside is always asking why.
(13:48):
If you're getting an answer, you'renot happy with, you don't find
it to be transparent or , you don'tfind that answer to be consistent.
Like asking why that's alot of what my cabinet does.
And so communication has been an issuethat we've faced back and forth as student
leaders to our university administration,and going into emails and saying, can
we have more communication about this?
Can we have more information?
Could this be more clearer for us?
(14:10):
So that we are ensuring theinformation we're getting is, can
be understood by students who don'thave the same experience as us.
And so a lot of my work is just makingthis more accessible and bridging the gap
between the average student and studentleader to Miami's administration and all
those faculty and staff members at Miami.
Making leadership more accessible.
(14:32):
I wanna talk about speed,and this is coming from my
limited assumptive perspective.
, and my work is intentionallyslowing folk down, right?
To see bigger picture, et cetera.
And what I'm blown away is by how fastall of you are , in communication,
in getting things in just moving.
(14:52):
I'm curious to hear how has growing upin a world of social media influenced
you positively and negatively?
someone who did not grow up withsocial media or with a computer.
And so, , like just having a wiredtelephone came much later in life
for me . So I'm just blown away bydevelopmentally how much that impacts.
(15:15):
But I'm curious to hear from the twoof you, how do you, see the level
of social interaction, facilitatingyour growth and development?
And also if in any way, inhibiting it.
Social media and media ingeneral is such a powerful thing.
and that's something I've come toreally realize this past summer.
as students, we are really goodat communicating and getting
things across campus and acrossour community very fast.
(15:38):
But this summer really put intoperspective how fast things
move throughout communities.
And I think that growing up with socialmedia, I was very much immersed in it
and I made it felt like it was my life.
But because of this pandemic, it'sreally helped me understand that it's
better to take a step back from socialmedia just to get your own, break your
(15:59):
own self-care, but using it intentionallyfor what you want to accomplish, for
getting information out there fromgetting just answers about things or
just ultimately to make a statement too.
Social media is so powerfulin making a statement.
. I really do value that we have thismedia, we have this access to everyone,
this access to a global community,and I hope that in this next year I we
(16:24):
as people begin to further understandhow it connects us and how we can use
that , to push for change and to pushfor, , socially conscious messages that
help us understand the people around us.
I was thinking about your questionand two things popped up for me.
One thing is how social media iseffective in connecting people.
(16:45):
Mutual aid efforts have astronomicallybeen circulating on social media.
People have been able to get likeCOVID rent relief or food relief, and
people raising money for everyone else.
And these are just college students.
These are anyone.
It's not a GoFundMe organizer or anonprofit person giving out funds.
(17:07):
It is your everyday neighbor who israising money for you on your behalf
and giving you that money directly.
And that is happening on socialmedia and that is completely
amazing, I would say a blessing.
And I've seen it change people's lives.
I've seen it really empower people tojust want to help and know that they are
not powerful like you can be anyoneand completely change someone else's
(17:30):
life or your community in that sense.
Another thing is social media growingup has been in conversations about
feelings of self-worth and I wouldsay, just wanting attention or that
kind of dichotomy of validation thata lot of both younger generations and
older generations struggle with becauseof how social media is just a display
(17:54):
of your best selves and has differentconversations about body positivity or
body neutrality or just reality in itself?
So I think two things came to mind.
It's just how positive and how lifechanging people on social media
can be with mutual aid effortsand redistributing resources.
And the negative aspect of how itcan really hurt how you feel how
(18:17):
you see yourself, and where you gofor validation and affirmations.
Another thing that I thought of allgentle was talking was storytelling.
The power of media and storytelling.
Because throughout this time that I'vebeen more active on social media because
of COVID it's been so impactful to knowabout the things that are happening
across the country that I would've neverknown about if it weren't for people
(18:39):
putting it out there on social media andputting out these campaigns and putting
out people's stories and how they'rebeing affected by police brutality.
COVID to 19 pandemic, thiselection that just happened.
And so it's amazing to see how I'll learnabout how California is dealing with
COVID, Ovid 19 compared to me being inOhio, how even other countries are dealing
with COVID to 19 like Australia and likehearing their stories of how their entire
(19:03):
life has been flipped upside down becausethey lost their job, or now they have to
be full-time parent because their childis at home due to the schools closing.
And so, that's another thing that Ifind so valuable about social media
is that storytelling and understandingand humanizing these things and
humanizing these people that we havenever seen in our lives in person.
(19:24):
I saw Jennifer just dropped a question.
How would Mutual aidconcepts work amongst.
Employees to generate amore supportive system.
And I think my first thought was in a wayof redistributing resources and knowledge.
So for example, how do you know you'regetting paid enough if you don't ask
your male coworker who does the sameexact job as you, how much they're
(19:47):
getting paid, and then you realizeyou're getting paid $10,000 less.
But you never knew thatbecause you never asked.
And the openness that isneeded is a resource in itself.
The knowledge of what does your contractlook like or how can I present myself
at the end of the quarter in order toget this raise, 'cause I saw you did
(20:09):
it last year, that is an act of mutualaid as to how to make sure everyone
around us and how can I level upand get paid more or get my needs
met in whichever way is necessary.
Not necessarily compensation, buthowever else may be needed that you
see someone else doing and the way,exclusivity and the hush idea that I've
(20:31):
experienced in these spaces has reallymade me feel like it's a kind of race.
But if we're all just coming intowork and we're all trying to, do our
best and we all have our own livesgoing on and like stuff comes up
and I just think that the mutual aidefforts can work in the workspace and
(20:51):
that is an example of transparency.
You know, the one thing that it'snot just transparency in pay issue
topics, but what I'm hearing is actuallythe converse of what you said shared
earlier, gentle around boundaries.
What transparency is also infusingis breaking down existing supremacist
structures and boundaries thatdivide people that are shaped to
(21:15):
keep people separate from each other.
And what you are speaking to interms of that transparency in
showing up to each other in supportof one another is a co-creative
communal space versus I and you.
And just that mindset of comingat it with that shatters a lot of
existing structures because of that.
(21:36):
How would you all suggest we usethe power of social media to heal
bridge gaps and connect as humans?
I can't help but acknowledge thedownside of how false narratives
can spread while disablingopportunities for meaningful dialogue.
Thoughts on that?
I think with social media, with falsenarratives, there will always exist.
People will alwaysspread false narratives.
(21:57):
I think it's ultimately how youhandle that false narrative, how
you approach that false narrative,how you spread your own message.
I Think for me, how I use social mediato heal is ultimately like the people
I follow and spreading their messages.
'cause they relate and agree with my ownbelief systems and so I follow a lot of
social justice organizations and spreadingout their messages of fundraising efforts.
(22:21):
Their messages of people's stories,their messages of incidents,
of brutality or incidents ofdiscrimination and insensitivity.
And then also in my college campus,it's ensuring that I'm leading these
conversations around insensitivityor around DEI and ensuring that I'm
pushing a narrative that ensuresgrowth and ensures a sense of community.
(22:48):
When we are thinking about socialmedia, it's ultimately about this
collective thought towards community.
And if that false narrative is goingagainst that, then that I narrative
right there should be rejectedfrom the community 'cause it's
not helping that community grow.
And so that's what a lot of what I do andwhat a lot of like other organizations
(23:10):
at Miami do is that we are spreadingnarrative, that are ensuring that we
are looking inward, but also lookingoutward when it comes to bringing
in information to help our communityand taking that information in our own
learned experiences to create more changeoutside into the community, the other
communities that we occupy throughoutthe country, throughout the globe.
I was gonna say, absolutely social mediacan be a place of false narratives.
(23:32):
I think I'm thinking of the multipledifferent platforms that there are , and
I think about, I how it is easy to useFacebook Twitter or Instagram as a
credible source for news and information.
And I think in terms of using socialmedia to heal, it is about setting
a boundary of responsibility to knowwhat is a credible source and what's
(23:55):
not, and know that for yourself.
And I think for me, like I might find anews article on Instagram and be like,
oh, but actually I'll look into it ona database or a Google search and make
sure that it's real before I actuallyentertain the space and put my energy
into something that I see online.
(24:16):
And I think that in order to makesure that we're using social media
to heal or create community spaces,it is about making sure that.
Platforms are both held with agrain of salt when they need to be.
I was gonna say with those falsenarratives or even misinformation, it's
going to that individual who's spreadingthat and informing them that, hey, this
(24:39):
information you're spreading is inaccurateor is not helpful for this community.
Like giving them articles to helpthem better understand it so that
misinformation is pretty much dispelledand ensuring that we are educating our
community members about the issues thatare impacting us so that we are ensuring
that we aren't spreading misinformationthroughout our own community and creating
(25:00):
division because of this misinformation.
So that's what I was gonna add.
What I'm here is you can eitherengage in it and get into this
back and forth, that goes nowhere.
Or you can use that as datato say, all right, here's
where we need to educate more.
Here's where we need to domore to dispel that, right?
So how do we take that versusreacting to it to leverage it
(25:21):
and say, here's what's needed.
Here's a gap that needs to be filled.
That's empowering.
we have that choice and I think thatcomment that comes through especially
in our remote time where we're justso fed into whatever's coming our way.
And the crucial thing that you'rebringing up is choose, take a pause
and choose how do you want to dealwith this piece of information?
(25:45):
And you might never have tocommunicate with that person ever
again, but you are still doingsomething with that piece of data.
You can wake up every day and chooseviolence, or you can choose peace.
Beautiful.
Pick your battle.
There's a question from Jennifer.
I feel COVID has really hurtcommunication skills between humans.
The lack of physical face-to-faceconversations has been changed forever.
(26:06):
How did Janie and gentle feel we canmaintain healthy conversation, skills,
consideration, compassion, et cetera.
I'll
I think communication skillshave definitely changed
via Zoom and this platform.
I think that in terms of COVIDI have attended Zoom funerals
myself, which is why starting Zoom.
In September for school was really hard.
(26:28):
I was like just pick anythingelse, pick any Google meets.
I don't know.
I just never wanted to loginto another Zoom call again.
And nevertheless, I'vehad to do that for school.
And in terms of communicating over aplatform, both grief, both for education,
for study sessions, for anything.
(26:49):
And maintaining compassion and empathy hasa lot to do with making sure that I feel
affirmed and affirming myself every day.
COVID is a really tough struggleand for everyone and for survivors
of COVID and I think that wearinga mask, I'll probably wear a mask
(27:10):
for the next 30 years regardless ofwhether or not we could be in person.
I'm in a state of trauma where I don'timagine ever not being six feet away
from someone else ever again, and I thinkthat in the future, it is very possible
for me to work through this trauma andgo into a sense of feeling safe not
(27:33):
with people in close proximities.
For right now, I think making surethat I am taking care of myself and
making sure that I have my communitymembers checking in with me and making
sure that I am okay and I can extendthat same energy towards people who
are my loved ones and my family.
I think that is okay for now.
And coming to that conclusionfor myself was something that
(27:55):
was completely necessary.
So, while communication has changed, it issomething that by adapting and by picking
up coping mechanisms of affirmationsand self-care and yoga, and a lot of
meditation that I do on a daily basis.
I think that it is about howsomeone is going to survive.
It is about doing what's best foryourself and doing what's best for
(28:18):
me is what I just mentioned, butknowing that that works for me.
Yeah, this is somethingI struggle with surprise.
As a person who's a student leader, Ivery much struggle with communication
because I also struggle with mentalhealth, with my anxiety and depression.
And so for me, I like to justburrow in my house like a hermit
crab, but I can't do that.
(28:39):
And so for me, something that I've hadto learn throughout COVID is I'm already
an empathetic and compassion person.
Outwardly, I'm very compassion, empathetictowards people and their experiences.
But I've had to learn that it's veryimportant for me to look inward and
have compassion and empathy for myselfand address , the feelings, the
emotions, , the thoughts that I'm havingin order for me to be comfortable and
(29:02):
grounded to communicate with others.
We just finished finals andI wanna hibernate for two
weeks, but I can't do that.
And so I have to be grounded withmyself and then say, I'm okay
to go out and talk to someone.
I'm okay to go out and address an issue.
I'm okay to do all of this andaffirm myself that I. We're gonna
get through this regardless ofthat, and giving myself grace.
(29:24):
Absolutely.
That's the key thing here is working onyourself as you're working with others.
'cause everything aroundyou is a mirror of yourself.
And if you are not giving yourself thatempathy, that compassion, that grace,
then you can't fully go out and becomfortable with doing that to others.
And I mean, you can, , 'causeeveryone can rationally do that, but.
(29:45):
In a sense you really can't becauseyou are not grounded in yourself.
And yes, putting on our oxygen mask first.
Absolutely.
And so when I look at communication,that's a big thing there is that
I. So waking up every morningand saying, I'm okay to do this.
I don't have to be perfectwith how I do this.
I don't have to be numberone in how I do this.
(30:05):
I just have to do it and do it whereI feel comfortable with giving out as
much information about myself, aboutwhat I'm talking about, as much as I
comfortably can in order to make thiscommunication constant and consistent.
Thank you for naming the traumaand the mental health impact
that this time is causing.
I've been saying this to pretty mucheveryone, especially the leaders, that
(30:27):
we are going through something right now.
We are changing every moment, and wedon't know how we are changing until
research starts and the data comes in.
And so we have to create space for that.
I wanna bring back a question thataddressed gentle's point . Workplace
hierarchy is its own race andversion of exclusion that the global
(30:47):
workforce fights with every day.
And that's why we have so many issueswhen a company will say, we don't operate,
or we don't worry about titles, whenwhat's happening in the hallway in the
boardrooms is exactly the opposite.
We have the gender wage gap, lack ofboardroom diversity, slow development,
slow pace of development for non-whiteprofessionals to back that up , needs
to be exposed, addressed, reworked.
(31:08):
I wanna connect that with what youwere saying around space that's needed.
And I wanna scale that to thisis what we can do for ourselves.
And then as an organization,you are about to enter the
workforce in a couple of years.
Workforces are actively changingin how they function, and yes,
there are structures that havehistorically worked and now we're
(31:28):
seeing what else needs to be done.
What is a workspacethat you wanna go into?
What is that ideal space whereyou feel seen, heard, valued?
I'll tie this back to the firstquestion about my generation.
And I think that my generation andmyself, we do not dream of labor.
We do not have a dream job.
(31:50):
We have our understanding andrealization of our purposes
and what we are aspiring to do.
Whether that be my purpose today isto clean up the streets on a Sunday
because my neighborhood looks bad andI'm just gonna do that and that's my
purpose, versus I have an occupationand I'm gonna go there to survive.
(32:12):
But yes we fetishize labor so much . Wecenter our lives over our employment
because that is such a big time commitmentand such a big segment of our day.
In terms of the workplace that I'm goingto go into that I hope is accessible
and inclusive, honestly, as I planon graduating and plan on getting
(32:33):
the whole first job outta college.
I really hope that I can have ajob that I can work from home in.
I think that before the pandemicworking from home was looked down on
and stigmatized does not really work.
I think that I would really like to makesure that I feel safe and comfortable
entering into whatever tasks that Ihave to do with clear communication
(32:57):
between my supervisor and I ,a lot oftransparency into how can I do this job
most effectively, what is needed to bedone, and make sure that I don't take my
work home with me in my personal life.
I will mention my mother because I've seenmy mother work two jobs my entire life.
And she's still working two jobs.
(33:17):
And I tell her that she works too hard.
I tell her that all the time.
I'm like, you're working too hard.
You're gonna work yourself in a grave.
You need to take a break.
And that's like really dramatic.
But my mom is one of the hardestworking people that I know for a
job that does not pay her overtime.
And it's just I wanna go intoa workspace where I feel affirmed
(33:39):
both culturally and monetarily'cause this is the world we live in.
If you're not monetarily telling methat I matter and monetarily compensating
me what I'm worth, you can say thatyou love your employees all you want,
but the proof is in the pudding.
And looking at the next 3 years, Idefinitely wanna have a job where if
(34:00):
we go into this hybrid system of atthe office or at home, I definitely
wanna make sure that I feel comfortablehaving that option and making sure that
I feel that this job is accessible.
I completely agree with gentle here.
I think for me, I also agree with theidea of working from home because I
wanna be able to be in my space and becomfortable, although I do find the value
(34:21):
of being able to go work and do so much.
But I was having a conversation with acouple of my friends like one of my close
friends just got a job and he is workinglike a professional job, like a real job.
A real job still as a college student.
And he was talking to me about beingin the workforce as a student and
how we want to be able to have thatspace where we could stop our job at
(34:43):
5:00 PM and not have to worry aboutit after and not have to sit down and
constantly think about doing something.
And in addition to that.
With this comparison of the how weworked before COVID and how we're working
now, it's really interesting to seehow the amount of work we do decreases
because we're at home, because we'redoing things that are actually what
(35:04):
our job title is, and we're not doingthose extra little things just to take
up time as we're at the workplace.
And so for me, I wanna be in a jobwhere the work that I'm doing is
the work I'm supposed to be doing.
Doing that is meaningful andimpactful for me, where I'm learning
something while also contributingto whatever occupation I'm in.
I don't wanna do extra things where it'snot within my job title, which I think
(35:29):
the skills are very helpful there, butif I'm not getting compensated for that
extra work, then why am I doing this work?
And so that's something I finda lot of value in is that.
I wanna be doing the work that I sat downand sign on to and said I'm going to do.
But also , from a DEI perspective,something that I really do look for
with different jobs at differentcompanies, is that do you have
(35:51):
public action plans on how you'regoing to do anti-racist education?
How you are going to actively combatracism within your workplace from
not only like a social culturallevel, but an institutional level.
Are you putting metrics on and timelineson the different initiatives and programs
you wanna put into your company thatensures that you're creating an inclusive
(36:12):
and diverse working environment.
Because representationbrings people to you.
It's the culture and the, whatyou're creating in that workspace
and how you are compensating thoseindividuals is what keeps them there.
And that's something I truly believein because in my field with working
as a student leader, that's whylike I look at colleges like that.
I came to Miami because of the peoplethere, and I stayed for the people there.
(36:36):
And so that's the big thing with people.
We want representation.
We also want a space where we can feelcomfortable to be ourselves and we
have people who are accepting of ourauthentic selves so that we can stay
there and grow as an individual and helpthis company, this organization, this
nonprofit grow and become something morethat will help the global community.
(36:59):
And so that's something that I reallydo look at is that how can I, as a
worker, as a person who's engagingwith this company, hold you accountable
for your actions and for how you'recreating a space that is representative
of the people that you want to bringin and want to change this company.
And so that's me.
I'm reminded of something that wehad talked about , of what is the
(37:21):
world, what is the workspace we wannago in ? And one of you had said,
we are the generation who will leave.
Yeah.
That was me.
We're the generation thatwill say, fuck that job.
We're that generation.
I was taught and people in myyears were taught, be careful
what you post on social media.
(37:41):
You are gonna lose a job,you're not gonna get hired.
Stuff like that.
And next thing you find out,they actually don't check or they
don't have that type of time.
Recruiters don't have that type oftime to just look you up and all that.
So I think that without that kind offear, it is a lot of this company
wants you versus you want that company.
If you go into that kind of mindset of I'mdefinitely overqualified, I'm brilliant,
(38:05):
you say your affirmations before thatinterview, you practice, you're ready.
You know that you can do the work and ifit is not working out, you know, in the
sense of social media and access theseconnections, your network, it is like,
okay, I know someone at this company,let me just ask for a referral and don't
even mention it until you're ready to go.
(38:28):
And I've seen people do it and Ithink that it's very empowering.
I think it's veryempowering to have options
. I completely agree that, and I've had experience in that.
I am again, very committed toDEI work at Miami, but I really
do value my time and energy.
And this summer we, Miami puttogether a task force where
student time and energy we're not.
Acknowledged and not put in the forefrontbecause a lot of us we have summer
(38:51):
jobs, we have things to do, we haveto get ready for the next school year.
And I do this work because I care.
But if I'm gonna go into a taskforce and feel and be invalidated
to look at other students beinginvalidated, I'm not gonna stay.
This is my time and my energy andI'm committed to this work, but I
cannot be committed to somethingwhere I don't feel as if my thoughts,
my opinions, my experiences areactually being heard, seen and valued.
(39:15):
And that's the mindset of prettymuch the generation is that we are
putting so much time and energy.
Doing this work is a lot of timeand energy, but if we're not being
acknowledged, if we're not beingvalidated, we're not being considered,
then we're gonna leave and find somewhereelse to do that same kind of impact.
And like us students, 'cause it was agroup of us, we made our own little task.
Floors where we created our owndemands and our own recommendations.
(39:37):
And that's the thing.
If we don't like it, we'll leave andmake something else of our own to
make that same impact, if not more.
Because this is our direct experiences.
So if there was a statement or likea one-liner to all the recruiters and
all the companies, here's who's coming.
You are not just gonna get skillset,you're getting visionaries.
You are getting proactive, passionand purpose-driven individuals who are
(40:02):
committed to a better world for everyone.
And if there is needs to change interms of hiring practices, because to
get this energy from the ground up isonly gonna fuel business, is only gonna
fuel workspaces is only gonna fuel.
And it's gonna disrupt.
So what I'm hearing that we shouldbe ready for is challenge disruption
(40:26):
towards creating something moreequitable, more just more communal,
and that creates a space of happiness,joy, purpose, passion, maybe.
Thank you.
Thank you all.
This has been an absolutepleasure, Jennifer.
Thank you for havingus Janie and gentle gosh.
Thank you for saying yes to this again.
(40:50):
We continue the exploration of workplaceculture with our next episode, the
Future of Women in Leadership.
Thank you for listening to Farsight Chats.
I hope that this episode is the startto future conversations you have with
your colleagues, teams, and communities.
Subscribe now to Farsight Chatswherever you get your podcasts.
(41:12):
And don't forget to follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Gofarsight LinkedIn
at the Farsight Agency and check outour website Gofarsight.com to know
more about who we are and what we do.
Thank you for answering the call todo more, do better, and do different.
Welcome to Farsight Chats, your Guideto Navigating Complex and Important
Conversations on Workplace Culture.
I'm your host, Farah Bala,founder and CEO of Farsight.
We specialize in leadership andorganizational development, focusing
on equity, diversity, and inclusionas core leadership competencies.
(00:28):
Join us in these conversationsthat aim to foster, understanding,
growth and positive change.
Today, we bring you a fresh perspectiveon leadership in the workplace.
This is yet another collaborationwith author and thought leader
Jennifer Brown on her podcast.
The Will to Change called Gen ZVoices for a More Equitable World.
(00:49):
In the summer of 2020, I broughttogether a few young black leaders
in a round table discussion.
My goal was to understand their visionduring the rise of the Black Lives
Matter movement in 2020, and I wantedto learn more about how they were
using their voices and taking action.
When Jennifer heard about this, shewanted to bring this perspective
(01:10):
to her own podcast and askedme to host the conversation.
What you are about to hear isa rich discussion I had with
Janie Kamara and Gentle Ramirez.
Janie and Gentle were both students in2020 and now Janie is a legislative
aide in the US House of Representatives,and Gentle is pursuing a software
(01:30):
engineering career at JP Morgan Chase.
If you've been an avid listener ofFarsight Chats, you'll remember that
Gentle was also a guest on episode threeon gender identity.. You are about to
hear a unique and innovative expressionof resistance and an unapologetic
expectation of what healthy workplacesand communities should look like.
(01:53):
This is so important as our currentyoung voices are our future leaders.
Every new generation brings theirown curiosities and vision to
the table that older generationsdon't always see eye to eye with.
We are seeing that todayin generational divides.
So irrespective of what generationyou belong to, I invite you to bring
(02:17):
your full curiosity and open mind asyou listen to today's conversation.
Consider this, how has the surgeof new and constant threats in our
world fundamentally altered thelife goals for our young people?
How can we protect our young leaderswithin our communities and support them
(02:37):
as they build their own leadership?
Join us on this journey oflearning and unlearning.
In today's episode of Farsight Chats.
So, Janie and gentle first question.
Let's say you run into a timetraveler from centuries ago.
how do you explain your generationto someone from the past?
(03:02):
I would describe this generationas being willing and wanting
to challenge the status quo.
, I think for many people inmy generation, we have been,
I. Condition to not speak up.
But for us, that's very dissident ofwho we are as individuals, and for me
personally, I am never afraid to be theone to speak up on something that I find
(03:27):
is not inclusive or that I find is just.
Wrong with how it's functioning,, working in academia as a student
leader, , that's something I often dois speak up against things or challenge
the status quo or bring in new ideasthat challenge the institution or
challenge the structure that's in place.
And so I would just describethis generation as a generation
who's willing and wanting tojust challenge the status quo.
(03:50):
, I think my first word would be boundaries.
I think that this generation and mygeneration have opened my eyes to
how boundaries , are so important.
not letting someone overwork youor cross your boundaries in any way
because, that knowledge of self-worth,that knowledge of there's something
(04:11):
else that is better, I think hasalso been amplified by the internet.
when I think of, my generation andthe internet and the access and the
kind of knowing and knowledge thatis constantly shared, and just
buzzwords from therapy that areactually a part of our culture now.
And setting boundaries with each other.
Setting boundaries with anyoneand everyone because that is how
(04:34):
we plan to respect ourselvesand walk through the world.
So I think that, I would putboundaries in the definition
of Gen Z in the dictionary.
Beautiful.
Thank you.
So I've been, . Listening to a lot of,, Barack Obama interviews now that he's on
his book tour, and he did this interviewvery recently with, , Jimmy Fallon.
And, you know, everyone's askinghim about his daughters, what's
(04:56):
it been like to, , be with yourkids at home, et cetera, et cetera.
He said something that's reallypoignant that what two of you are
saying is pretty much mirroring.
He says this whole generationof young people coming up are
smart, thoughtful, sophisticated.
They really believe that everybody isequal, that we should treat everybody
fairly, that we don't like racism and wedon't like discriminating against people
(05:20):
because of their sexual orientation.
It's second nature to them, andthere is a courage and conviction
that they bring to it that really isinspiring and makes me optimistic.
It's a matter of us old heads gettingout of the way and making sure we don't
break things so badly that by the timethey're in charge, it's not too late.
So speaking of by the time you are incharge, I wanna connect, , boundaries with
(05:44):
something that, , Amber Heke said on lastweek's call that really resonated with me
when she said, in white supremacy culture,when you talk about social justice.
It's aspirational.
It has to be visioning.
You have to think from that space.
So what is your vision forthe world you wanna be in?
I'm an anarchist, communist.
My vision for the world is toeventually get away from capitalism,
(06:10):
get away from the 40 hour work week.
Live in a place where we care aboutour community members and we do a lot
of collective care and community care.
my envision for when I am in a spaceof leadership, so hopefully in 10,
15 years, I know, and I really don'tlike admitting it, but I know that
(06:31):
capitalism is not going to go away.
And I hope that it does eventually,but in my lifetime I would like to
see steps towards it dismantling.
And I think that ways in which that itcan dismantle is by, well, not little
things, but pieces of the puzzle.
So first things first is probably justgetting rid of the 40 hour work week.
(06:52):
So more people can have times fortheir own purposes and passions.
I'm at NYU and I worked 20 hours a weekand I also went to school full-time.
The way that I completely neglectedmyself because I needed to find a
means for survival, was something I didnot wanna do for the rest of my life.
And it was entirely for me connectedto power and connected to, elitism
(07:17):
and while I got through it, itwas not healthy for me at all.
So, , I would like to envisiona healthier world for people
like me and myself to live in.
completely echo everything you said . , Ithink for me in a social sense, I would
love to envision a world where we areintolerant of intolerance and that we
(07:39):
are creating spaces without having tobe told to create these spaces that
are safe and brave for marginalizedcommunities to go in and to be successful.
And I think that we're makingsteps to do that now, but I
think that we could do more.
, this generation's often very impatient.
I like to say that I'm an impatientperson because for me, I know what I want.
(08:01):
I understand the steps thatwe'll take to get there.
It's ultimately.
Individuals who have that sense of power,not wanting and willing to take that step
to be the out person, go against the crowdand be public with denouncing things.
And so in order for us to move forwardas society, we have to be outwardly
intolerant, intolerances be public withour condemnations of white supremacy,
(08:25):
of racism, and of other things thatcreate very harmful and hurtful spaces
that marginalized communities occupy.
And then we're lookingat an institutional way.
Everything that gentle just said.
For me, I want to keepon going in academia.
I'm taking a gap year next year, butI wanna go back and get my master's in
student affairs and higher educationand ultimately in that sphere, helping
(08:50):
students understand that you can comein wanting to go be a doctor and all
these wonderful things, but understandwhat is your purpose in life ultimately.
You can have an occupation, butwhat do you want to accomplish?
What do you wanna gain?
What do you wanna learn fromthis life that you are living so
that you feel whole and complete.
And so those are just the differentvisions I have for the world
(09:10):
that I wanna live in, in like10, 20, 15, however, so years.
And the other thing that I'm hearing,and I'm reflecting on a little
bit, 'cause , when I'm working withclients, , they're at the height
of their career sometimes, , in thecoaching, that I do, with executives.
and they're then starting to thinkabout, wait, is this my purpose or
is there something else going on?
(09:30):
And the stark difference thatI'm hearing here is that, oh no,
we are starting with purpose.
We know what purpose is.
We know what that feels like, or weknow what that wants to feel like.
And that's what's driving us.
So disruption 1 0 1 right there.
let me ask you what are you alreadydoing as, activist, as leaders,
as social justice advocates?
(09:51):
What are strategies that you've alreadydeployed, that you've seen success
with, , in the work that you do, , atuniversity, outside with your other
initiatives, bring us into, , how youare creating impact and making change.
So since about.
, 2018, I've been a part of multipledifferent organizations in New York.
(10:11):
I'll name two.
, one is the Take Backthe Bronx Organization.
It is a grassroots organization.
, mainly the phrase, , whoStreets Our streets.
It's about redistributing resources.
It's about, , giving out free food,giving out healthcare, giving out
health pPE, , mask and hand sanitizer,and, making sure that people know
where the shelters are and whateverelse they may need that we can provide.
(10:36):
Also, at NYU, I've been a part ofthe NYU Prison Education Program.
So my fellow peers or my fellowstudents who are studying, who are
currently incarcerated are still.
NYU community members and often thedissonance and dissonance because of
(10:57):
our differences in reality, separateand continue to make stuff hard on the
people who are currently incarcerated,who already have a challenge as it is.
being a part of the prison educationprogram has really changed my life
because I really thought that, NYU as aninstitution was not doing enough or not
(11:18):
really a part of the big NYC and thatit's something that NYU currently brags
is that it has all these opportunities inNew York City and to see NYU be a part of
the issues on Rikers Island and trying tomake sure that people who are, , released
in a hopeful, timely manner have a kindof stepping stone when they get out.
(11:39):
And, , just learning about incarcerationand learning about the carceral state
has completely been disheartening, butactually really amazing to see what a
difference someone like me who is stillin college can make while I'm still in
college and know that these are my fellowstudents and know that these are my fellow
graduating class members really likejust open my eyes up to what is possible.
(12:01):
I think for me, , I hope some of you arefamiliar with Miami University of Ohio.
We're in Oxford, Ohio, which is 30minutes north of Cincinnati, and
so for me it's very hard to get, I.Involved in Hamilton, Cincinnati
because it is so far away from me.
And because of that I've hadto do a lot of internal work at
Miami through student leadership.
So right out the bat , I got involvedin student government, I got involved
(12:22):
in DEI efforts, I got involved in otherareas that I wasn't too familiar with.
And so looking back on that, a lot of mywork has spin around making leadership
more accessible to other students.
Because students come in wanting tojust get their education and go, but
in that meantime, they're like, oh,I really care about this institution
that I am at, how do I get involved?
(12:44):
And so helping students understandthe power they have in addressing the
issues that arise at Miami and helpingstudents better understand how they
can get involved and make a meaningfulimpact during their time at Miami.
And so even this year when I waselected, , one of the first things I
did was just go upon different panelsand different interviews to help
(13:05):
people understand how they can getinvolved in this work of DEI or just
this work of social justice at Miami.
, and another thing that I do is also alot of research around student activism.
So I just finished up my capstone forthe semester where I'm looking at, I
miami's history of student activismand understanding what are those themes
that have been reoccurring when itcomes to , why students challenge and
(13:26):
protest on college campuses, and howcan we actually address that now , since
I have, and we have this information.
And so it's ultimately making leadershipmore accessible, making information
more accessible to students to helpthem understand that they can do
this work just as well as I can.
and so that's a lot ofmy work around that.
But in the institutionalside is always asking why.
(13:48):
If you're getting an answer, you'renot happy with, you don't find
it to be transparent or , you don'tfind that answer to be consistent.
Like asking why that's alot of what my cabinet does.
And so communication has been an issuethat we've faced back and forth as student
leaders to our university administration,and going into emails and saying, can
we have more communication about this?
Can we have more information?
Could this be more clearer for us?
(14:10):
So that we are ensuring theinformation we're getting is, can
be understood by students who don'thave the same experience as us.
And so a lot of my work is just makingthis more accessible and bridging the gap
between the average student and studentleader to Miami's administration and all
those faculty and staff members at Miami.
Making leadership more accessible.
(14:32):
I wanna talk about speed,and this is coming from my
limited assumptive perspective.
, and my work is intentionallyslowing folk down, right?
To see bigger picture, et cetera.
And what I'm blown away is by how fastall of you are , in communication,
in getting things in just moving.
(14:52):
I'm curious to hear how has growing upin a world of social media influenced
you positively and negatively?
someone who did not grow up withsocial media or with a computer.
And so, , like just having a wiredtelephone came much later in life
for me . So I'm just blown away bydevelopmentally how much that impacts.
(15:15):
But I'm curious to hear from the twoof you, how do you, see the level
of social interaction, facilitatingyour growth and development?
And also if in any way, inhibiting it.
Social media and media ingeneral is such a powerful thing.
and that's something I've come toreally realize this past summer.
as students, we are really goodat communicating and getting
things across campus and acrossour community very fast.
(15:38):
But this summer really put intoperspective how fast things
move throughout communities.
And I think that growing up with socialmedia, I was very much immersed in it
and I made it felt like it was my life.
But because of this pandemic, it'sreally helped me understand that it's
better to take a step back from socialmedia just to get your own, break your
(15:59):
own self-care, but using it intentionallyfor what you want to accomplish, for
getting information out there fromgetting just answers about things or
just ultimately to make a statement too.
Social media is so powerfulin making a statement.
. I really do value that we have thismedia, we have this access to everyone,
this access to a global community,and I hope that in this next year I we
(16:24):
as people begin to further understandhow it connects us and how we can use
that , to push for change and to pushfor, , socially conscious messages that
help us understand the people around us.
I was thinking about your questionand two things popped up for me.
One thing is how social media iseffective in connecting people.
(16:45):
Mutual aid efforts have astronomicallybeen circulating on social media.
People have been able to get likeCOVID rent relief or food relief, and
people raising money for everyone else.
And these are just college students.
These are anyone.
It's not a GoFundMe organizer or anonprofit person giving out funds.
(17:07):
It is your everyday neighbor who israising money for you on your behalf
and giving you that money directly.
And that is happening on socialmedia and that is completely
amazing, I would say a blessing.
And I've seen it change people's lives.
I've seen it really empower people tojust want to help and know that they are
not powerful like you can be anyoneand completely change someone else's
(17:30):
life or your community in that sense.
Another thing is social media growingup has been in conversations about
feelings of self-worth and I wouldsay, just wanting attention or that
kind of dichotomy of validation thata lot of both younger generations and
older generations struggle with becauseof how social media is just a display
(17:54):
of your best selves and has differentconversations about body positivity or
body neutrality or just reality in itself?
So I think two things came to mind.
It's just how positive and how lifechanging people on social media
can be with mutual aid effortsand redistributing resources.
And the negative aspect of how itcan really hurt how you feel how
(18:17):
you see yourself, and where you gofor validation and affirmations.
Another thing that I thought of allgentle was talking was storytelling.
The power of media and storytelling.
Because throughout this time that I'vebeen more active on social media because
of COVID it's been so impactful to knowabout the things that are happening
across the country that I would've neverknown about if it weren't for people
(18:39):
putting it out there on social media andputting out these campaigns and putting
out people's stories and how they'rebeing affected by police brutality.
COVID to 19 pandemic, thiselection that just happened.
And so it's amazing to see how I'll learnabout how California is dealing with
COVID, Ovid 19 compared to me being inOhio, how even other countries are dealing
with COVID to 19 like Australia and likehearing their stories of how their entire
(19:03):
life has been flipped upside down becausethey lost their job, or now they have to
be full-time parent because their childis at home due to the schools closing.
And so, that's another thing that Ifind so valuable about social media
is that storytelling and understandingand humanizing these things and
humanizing these people that we havenever seen in our lives in person.
(19:24):
I saw Jennifer just dropped a question.
How would Mutual aidconcepts work amongst.
Employees to generate amore supportive system.
And I think my first thought was in a wayof redistributing resources and knowledge.
So for example, how do you know you'regetting paid enough if you don't ask
your male coworker who does the sameexact job as you, how much they're
(19:47):
getting paid, and then you realizeyou're getting paid $10,000 less.
But you never knew thatbecause you never asked.
And the openness that isneeded is a resource in itself.
The knowledge of what does your contractlook like or how can I present myself
at the end of the quarter in order toget this raise, 'cause I saw you did
(20:09):
it last year, that is an act of mutualaid as to how to make sure everyone
around us and how can I level upand get paid more or get my needs
met in whichever way is necessary.
Not necessarily compensation, buthowever else may be needed that you
see someone else doing and the way,exclusivity and the hush idea that I've
(20:31):
experienced in these spaces has reallymade me feel like it's a kind of race.
But if we're all just coming intowork and we're all trying to, do our
best and we all have our own livesgoing on and like stuff comes up
and I just think that the mutual aidefforts can work in the workspace and
(20:51):
that is an example of transparency.
You know, the one thing that it'snot just transparency in pay issue
topics, but what I'm hearing is actuallythe converse of what you said shared
earlier, gentle around boundaries.
What transparency is also infusingis breaking down existing supremacist
structures and boundaries thatdivide people that are shaped to
(21:15):
keep people separate from each other.
And what you are speaking to interms of that transparency in
showing up to each other in supportof one another is a co-creative
communal space versus I and you.
And just that mindset of comingat it with that shatters a lot of
existing structures because of that.
(21:36):
How would you all suggest we usethe power of social media to heal
bridge gaps and connect as humans?
I can't help but acknowledge thedownside of how false narratives
can spread while disablingopportunities for meaningful dialogue.
Thoughts on that?
I think with social media, with falsenarratives, there will always exist.
People will alwaysspread false narratives.
(21:57):
I think it's ultimately how youhandle that false narrative, how
you approach that false narrative,how you spread your own message.
I Think for me, how I use social mediato heal is ultimately like the people
I follow and spreading their messages.
'cause they relate and agree with my ownbelief systems and so I follow a lot of
social justice organizations and spreadingout their messages of fundraising efforts.
(22:21):
Their messages of people's stories,their messages of incidents,
of brutality or incidents ofdiscrimination and insensitivity.
And then also in my college campus,it's ensuring that I'm leading these
conversations around insensitivityor around DEI and ensuring that I'm
pushing a narrative that ensuresgrowth and ensures a sense of community.
(22:48):
When we are thinking about socialmedia, it's ultimately about this
collective thought towards community.
And if that false narrative is goingagainst that, then that I narrative
right there should be rejectedfrom the community 'cause it's
not helping that community grow.
And so that's what a lot of what I do andwhat a lot of like other organizations
(23:10):
at Miami do is that we are spreadingnarrative, that are ensuring that we
are looking inward, but also lookingoutward when it comes to bringing
in information to help our communityand taking that information in our own
learned experiences to create more changeoutside into the community, the other
communities that we occupy throughoutthe country, throughout the globe.
I was gonna say, absolutely social mediacan be a place of false narratives.
(23:32):
I think I'm thinking of the multipledifferent platforms that there are , and
I think about, I how it is easy to useFacebook Twitter or Instagram as a
credible source for news and information.
And I think in terms of using socialmedia to heal, it is about setting
a boundary of responsibility to knowwhat is a credible source and what's
(23:55):
not, and know that for yourself.
And I think for me, like I might find anews article on Instagram and be like,
oh, but actually I'll look into it ona database or a Google search and make
sure that it's real before I actuallyentertain the space and put my energy
into something that I see online.
(24:16):
And I think that in order to makesure that we're using social media
to heal or create community spaces,it is about making sure that.
Platforms are both held with agrain of salt when they need to be.
I was gonna say with those falsenarratives or even misinformation, it's
going to that individual who's spreadingthat and informing them that, hey, this
(24:39):
information you're spreading is inaccurateor is not helpful for this community.
Like giving them articles to helpthem better understand it so that
misinformation is pretty much dispelledand ensuring that we are educating our
community members about the issues thatare impacting us so that we are ensuring
that we aren't spreading misinformationthroughout our own community and creating
(25:00):
division because of this misinformation.
So that's what I was gonna add.
What I'm here is you can eitherengage in it and get into this
back and forth, that goes nowhere.
Or you can use that as datato say, all right, here's
where we need to educate more.
Here's where we need to domore to dispel that, right?
So how do we take that versusreacting to it to leverage it
(25:21):
and say, here's what's needed.
Here's a gap that needs to be filled.
That's empowering.
we have that choice and I think thatcomment that comes through especially
in our remote time where we're justso fed into whatever's coming our way.
And the crucial thing that you'rebringing up is choose, take a pause
and choose how do you want to dealwith this piece of information?
(25:45):
And you might never have tocommunicate with that person ever
again, but you are still doingsomething with that piece of data.
You can wake up every day and chooseviolence, or you can choose peace.
Beautiful.
Pick your battle.
There's a question from Jennifer.
I feel COVID has really hurtcommunication skills between humans.
The lack of physical face-to-faceconversations has been changed forever.
(26:06):
How did Janie and gentle feel we canmaintain healthy conversation, skills,
consideration, compassion, et cetera.
I'll
I think communication skillshave definitely changed
via Zoom and this platform.
I think that in terms of COVIDI have attended Zoom funerals
myself, which is why starting Zoom.
In September for school was really hard.
(26:28):
I was like just pick anythingelse, pick any Google meets.
I don't know.
I just never wanted to loginto another Zoom call again.
And nevertheless, I'vehad to do that for school.
And in terms of communicating over aplatform, both grief, both for education,
for study sessions, for anything.
(26:49):
And maintaining compassion and empathy hasa lot to do with making sure that I feel
affirmed and affirming myself every day.
COVID is a really tough struggleand for everyone and for survivors
of COVID and I think that wearinga mask, I'll probably wear a mask
(27:10):
for the next 30 years regardless ofwhether or not we could be in person.
I'm in a state of trauma where I don'timagine ever not being six feet away
from someone else ever again, and I thinkthat in the future, it is very possible
for me to work through this trauma andgo into a sense of feeling safe not
(27:33):
with people in close proximities.
For right now, I think making surethat I am taking care of myself and
making sure that I have my communitymembers checking in with me and making
sure that I am okay and I can extendthat same energy towards people who
are my loved ones and my family.
I think that is okay for now.
And coming to that conclusionfor myself was something that
(27:55):
was completely necessary.
So, while communication has changed, it issomething that by adapting and by picking
up coping mechanisms of affirmationsand self-care and yoga, and a lot of
meditation that I do on a daily basis.
I think that it is about howsomeone is going to survive.
It is about doing what's best foryourself and doing what's best for
(28:18):
me is what I just mentioned, butknowing that that works for me.
Yeah, this is somethingI struggle with surprise.
As a person who's a student leader, Ivery much struggle with communication
because I also struggle with mentalhealth, with my anxiety and depression.
And so for me, I like to justburrow in my house like a hermit
crab, but I can't do that.
(28:39):
And so for me, something that I've hadto learn throughout COVID is I'm already
an empathetic and compassion person.
Outwardly, I'm very compassion, empathetictowards people and their experiences.
But I've had to learn that it's veryimportant for me to look inward and
have compassion and empathy for myselfand address , the feelings, the
emotions, , the thoughts that I'm havingin order for me to be comfortable and
(29:02):
grounded to communicate with others.
We just finished finals andI wanna hibernate for two
weeks, but I can't do that.
And so I have to be grounded withmyself and then say, I'm okay
to go out and talk to someone.
I'm okay to go out and address an issue.
I'm okay to do all of this andaffirm myself that I. We're gonna
get through this regardless ofthat, and giving myself grace.
(29:24):
Absolutely.
That's the key thing here is working onyourself as you're working with others.
'cause everything aroundyou is a mirror of yourself.
And if you are not giving yourself thatempathy, that compassion, that grace,
then you can't fully go out and becomfortable with doing that to others.
And I mean, you can, , 'causeeveryone can rationally do that, but.
(29:45):
In a sense you really can't becauseyou are not grounded in yourself.
And yes, putting on our oxygen mask first.
Absolutely.
And so when I look at communication,that's a big thing there is that
I. So waking up every morningand saying, I'm okay to do this.
I don't have to be perfectwith how I do this.
I don't have to be numberone in how I do this.
(30:05):
I just have to do it and do it whereI feel comfortable with giving out as
much information about myself, aboutwhat I'm talking about, as much as I
comfortably can in order to make thiscommunication constant and consistent.
Thank you for naming the traumaand the mental health impact
that this time is causing.
I've been saying this to pretty mucheveryone, especially the leaders, that
(30:27):
we are going through something right now.
We are changing every moment, and wedon't know how we are changing until
research starts and the data comes in.
And so we have to create space for that.
I wanna bring back a question thataddressed gentle's point . Workplace
hierarchy is its own race andversion of exclusion that the global
(30:47):
workforce fights with every day.
And that's why we have so many issueswhen a company will say, we don't operate,
or we don't worry about titles, whenwhat's happening in the hallway in the
boardrooms is exactly the opposite.
We have the gender wage gap, lack ofboardroom diversity, slow development,
slow pace of development for non-whiteprofessionals to back that up , needs
to be exposed, addressed, reworked.
(31:08):
I wanna connect that with what youwere saying around space that's needed.
And I wanna scale that to thisis what we can do for ourselves.
And then as an organization,you are about to enter the
workforce in a couple of years.
Workforces are actively changingin how they function, and yes,
there are structures that havehistorically worked and now we're
(31:28):
seeing what else needs to be done.
What is a workspacethat you wanna go into?
What is that ideal space whereyou feel seen, heard, valued?
I'll tie this back to the firstquestion about my generation.
And I think that my generation andmyself, we do not dream of labor.
We do not have a dream job.
(31:50):
We have our understanding andrealization of our purposes
and what we are aspiring to do.
Whether that be my purpose today isto clean up the streets on a Sunday
because my neighborhood looks bad andI'm just gonna do that and that's my
purpose, versus I have an occupationand I'm gonna go there to survive.
(32:12):
But yes we fetishize labor so much . Wecenter our lives over our employment
because that is such a big time commitmentand such a big segment of our day.
In terms of the workplace that I'm goingto go into that I hope is accessible
and inclusive, honestly, as I planon graduating and plan on getting
(32:33):
the whole first job outta college.
I really hope that I can have ajob that I can work from home in.
I think that before the pandemicworking from home was looked down on
and stigmatized does not really work.
I think that I would really like to makesure that I feel safe and comfortable
entering into whatever tasks that Ihave to do with clear communication
(32:57):
between my supervisor and I ,a lot oftransparency into how can I do this job
most effectively, what is needed to bedone, and make sure that I don't take my
work home with me in my personal life.
I will mention my mother because I've seenmy mother work two jobs my entire life.
And she's still working two jobs.
(33:17):
And I tell her that she works too hard.
I tell her that all the time.
I'm like, you're working too hard.
You're gonna work yourself in a grave.
You need to take a break.
And that's like really dramatic.
But my mom is one of the hardestworking people that I know for a
job that does not pay her overtime.
And it's just I wanna go intoa workspace where I feel affirmed
(33:39):
both culturally and monetarily'cause this is the world we live in.
If you're not monetarily telling methat I matter and monetarily compensating
me what I'm worth, you can say thatyou love your employees all you want,
but the proof is in the pudding.
And looking at the next 3 years, Idefinitely wanna have a job where if
(34:00):
we go into this hybrid system of atthe office or at home, I definitely
wanna make sure that I feel comfortablehaving that option and making sure that
I feel that this job is accessible.
I completely agree with gentle here.
I think for me, I also agree with theidea of working from home because I
wanna be able to be in my space and becomfortable, although I do find the value
(34:21):
of being able to go work and do so much.
But I was having a conversation with acouple of my friends like one of my close
friends just got a job and he is workinglike a professional job, like a real job.
A real job still as a college student.
And he was talking to me about beingin the workforce as a student and
how we want to be able to have thatspace where we could stop our job at
(34:43):
5:00 PM and not have to worry aboutit after and not have to sit down and
constantly think about doing something.
And in addition to that.
With this comparison of the how weworked before COVID and how we're working
now, it's really interesting to seehow the amount of work we do decreases
because we're at home, because we'redoing things that are actually what
(35:04):
our job title is, and we're not doingthose extra little things just to take
up time as we're at the workplace.
And so for me, I wanna be in a jobwhere the work that I'm doing is
the work I'm supposed to be doing.
Doing that is meaningful andimpactful for me, where I'm learning
something while also contributingto whatever occupation I'm in.
I don't wanna do extra things where it'snot within my job title, which I think
(35:29):
the skills are very helpful there, butif I'm not getting compensated for that
extra work, then why am I doing this work?
And so that's something I finda lot of value in is that.
I wanna be doing the work that I sat downand sign on to and said I'm going to do.
But also , from a DEI perspective,something that I really do look for
with different jobs at differentcompanies, is that do you have
(35:51):
public action plans on how you'regoing to do anti-racist education?
How you are going to actively combatracism within your workplace from
not only like a social culturallevel, but an institutional level.
Are you putting metrics on and timelineson the different initiatives and programs
you wanna put into your company thatensures that you're creating an inclusive
(36:12):
and diverse working environment.
Because representationbrings people to you.
It's the culture and the, whatyou're creating in that workspace
and how you are compensating thoseindividuals is what keeps them there.
And that's something I truly believein because in my field with working
as a student leader, that's whylike I look at colleges like that.
I came to Miami because of the peoplethere, and I stayed for the people there.
(36:36):
And so that's the big thing with people.
We want representation.
We also want a space where we can feelcomfortable to be ourselves and we
have people who are accepting of ourauthentic selves so that we can stay
there and grow as an individual and helpthis company, this organization, this
nonprofit grow and become something morethat will help the global community.
(36:59):
And so that's something that I reallydo look at is that how can I, as a
worker, as a person who's engagingwith this company, hold you accountable
for your actions and for how you'recreating a space that is representative
of the people that you want to bringin and want to change this company.
And so that's me.
I'm reminded of something that wehad talked about , of what is the
(37:21):
world, what is the workspace we wannago in ? And one of you had said,
we are the generation who will leave.
Yeah.
That was me.
We're the generation thatwill say, fuck that job.
We're that generation.
I was taught and people in myyears were taught, be careful
what you post on social media.
(37:41):
You are gonna lose a job,you're not gonna get hired.
Stuff like that.
And next thing you find out,they actually don't check or they
don't have that type of time.
Recruiters don't have that type oftime to just look you up and all that.
So I think that without that kind offear, it is a lot of this company
wants you versus you want that company.
If you go into that kind of mindset of I'mdefinitely overqualified, I'm brilliant,
(38:05):
you say your affirmations before thatinterview, you practice, you're ready.
You know that you can do the work and ifit is not working out, you know, in the
sense of social media and access theseconnections, your network, it is like,
okay, I know someone at this company,let me just ask for a referral and don't
even mention it until you're ready to go.
(38:28):
And I've seen people do it and Ithink that it's very empowering.
I think it's veryempowering to have options
. I completely agree that, and I've had experience in that.
I am again, very committed toDEI work at Miami, but I really
do value my time and energy.
And this summer we, Miami puttogether a task force where
student time and energy we're not.
Acknowledged and not put in the forefrontbecause a lot of us we have summer
(38:51):
jobs, we have things to do, we haveto get ready for the next school year.
And I do this work because I care.
But if I'm gonna go into a taskforce and feel and be invalidated
to look at other students beinginvalidated, I'm not gonna stay.
This is my time and my energy andI'm committed to this work, but I
cannot be committed to somethingwhere I don't feel as if my thoughts,
my opinions, my experiences areactually being heard, seen and valued.
(39:15):
And that's the mindset of prettymuch the generation is that we are
putting so much time and energy.
Doing this work is a lot of timeand energy, but if we're not being
acknowledged, if we're not beingvalidated, we're not being considered,
then we're gonna leave and find somewhereelse to do that same kind of impact.
And like us students, 'cause it was agroup of us, we made our own little task.
Floors where we created our owndemands and our own recommendations.
(39:37):
And that's the thing.
If we don't like it, we'll leave andmake something else of our own to
make that same impact, if not more.
Because this is our direct experiences.
So if there was a statement or likea one-liner to all the recruiters and
all the companies, here's who's coming.
You are not just gonna get skillset,you're getting visionaries.
You are getting proactive, passionand purpose-driven individuals who are
(40:02):
committed to a better world for everyone.
And if there is needs to change interms of hiring practices, because to
get this energy from the ground up isonly gonna fuel business, is only gonna
fuel workspaces is only gonna fuel.
And it's gonna disrupt.
So what I'm hearing that we shouldbe ready for is challenge disruption
(40:26):
towards creating something moreequitable, more just more communal,
and that creates a space of happiness,joy, purpose, passion, maybe.
Thank you.
Thank you all.
This has been an absolutepleasure, Jennifer.
Thank you for havingus Janie and gentle gosh.
Thank you for saying yes to this again.
(40:50):
We continue the exploration of workplaceculture with our next episode, the
Future of Women in Leadership.
Thank you for listening to Farsight Chats.
I hope that this episode is the startto future conversations you have with
your colleagues, teams, and communities.
Subscribe now to Farsight Chatswherever you get your podcasts.
(41:12):
And don't forget to follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Gofarsight LinkedIn
at the Farsight Agency and check outour website Gofarsight.com to know
more about who we are and what we do.
Thank you for answering the call todo more, do better, and do different.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.