November 8, 2024 • 26 mins
Unlock the secrets of empowering students in special education as we sit down with April, a dedicated advocate and seasoned professional in school psychology. April's journey, inspired by a family of educators, led her to challenge misconceptions and champion individualized education plans (IEPs) that genuinely address each student's unique strengths and needs. In this episode, she highlights the pivotal role of student participation and effective communication between parents, teachers, and psychologists, sharing her transformative work with RISE—a movement aiming to bridge gaps and empower students through self-determination.
Connect with Heather Rehrig:
April Rehrig
M.Ed., BCEA, LEP, PPS, CASDCS
Rise Educational Advocacy and Consulting, LLC. Founder
www.riseeducationaladvocacy.com
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We explore April's insights on navigating the IEP process, where she emphasizes the power of meeting students where they are and fostering meaningful connections. Hear about an inspiring success story where April helped a mother and her child transition smoothly to high school by equipping them with crucial tools like parent letters and reports. This conversation is an eye-opener on the importance of communication and documentation, urging parents and teachers alike to adapt their approaches to create more collaborative and positive outcomes.
As we delve into the critical transition from high school to college, April offers invaluable guidance on preparing for IEP meetings as negotiation opportunities. With resources from RISE, families can effectively navigate this phase, ensuring students are well-prepared and understand college disability services. Connect with April's work and advocacy by visiting riseeducationaladvocacy.com and following her on Instagram at @riseedadvocacy. Don't miss out on the wealth of knowledge shared by April, whose commitment to transforming the special education landscape is truly inspiring.
Barbara Beck is the host of the FAST 15 Podcast. She is a highly dedicated Disability Advocate and Special Education Consultant specializing in IEP Transition Services. Barbara has an extensive background as a special education teacher spanning nearly 30 years. She has dedicated her career to empowering transition-age youth and fostering positive post-school outcomes.
Barbara's expertise lies in providing comprehensive support and guidance to students with disabilities, ensuring their successful transition from school to adult life. She possesses a deep understanding of secondary services and possesses the skills to develop tailored strategies that maximize individual potential.
For more information and resources on special education school-to-adulthood transition planning and independent living, visit www.mykeyplans.com. Join us on social media for updates, behind-the-scenes content, and discussions about special education, inclusion, and disability advocacy. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn and use #IEPLaunchpadPodcast to join the conversation. Thank you for tuning in to the IEP Launchpad Podcast! 🎧🎙️#IDD #teaching #specialed #specialneeds #InclusionMatters #DisabilityAdvocacy #EmpowerVoices #edtech, #education #edtech, #teachers
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right.
Well, I'm so excited today tohave a chance to talk to you,
april, for the FAST15, and justget to know you and find out
about where you have been onyour journey in special
education and supportingfamilies and students in
particular, and just where allof your work started with RISE
and kind of the development andjourney that you've been on.
Thank you for joining us.
Thanks for having me.
(00:20):
So tell us so do you want me toget to, kind of my background
of journey that you've been on?
Thank you for joining us.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So tell us, so do you want me to get to kind of my
background of where I've been?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yes, please get into the background.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Well, it's kind of I'll give you the short and
skinny of it I was always sortof involved with students
neurodivergent kids.
I started volunteering when Iwas 11 in a neurodivergent
classroom and I loved it and Iwas raised in a family of
educators.
I would sit in my aunt'sclassroom and just look at her
and wonder, because she wasfunny and hilarious and no
(00:54):
matter what kind of kid was inthere, they loved her.
And that's what makes a greateducator is someone who speaks
to you and it just really youknow is someone who speaks to
you and it just really you know.
It tugged at my heart and so Idecided to become a teacher and
my first couple of years as anew teacher I'm sure some of
your listeners will resonatewith this, but I got the most
(01:15):
difficult kids and the mostamount of boys in anyone else's
class as a new teacher and Ithought at 21, I knew it all.
I thought at 21, if a kidstruggled, that they definitely
needed an IEP.
So I referred a bunch of kids.
I'm like I know exactly whatthey need.
They are not doing well, theyare not listening, so they have
(01:37):
learning disabilities.
And the psychologist looked atme and she said you know what,
april, you keep referring methese kids and most of them
don't qualify and it's becauseyou're not teaching them to
their needs.
Some of the kids wereexceptionally gifted but they
were failing and I didn'trecognize that and I wasn't
(01:58):
working with their strengths,which is what I talk about a lot
.
So it turned me on and turnedme inside out and brought open
this new field to my heartcalled school psychology.
And so I was a school psych for20 years.
I went into teaching a littlebit and I loved it.
I loved it.
But the thing that I didn'tlove was coming to the IEPs
(02:21):
because they were just run sopoorly.
And you know, as a school psych, you come into the meeting, you
do all this testing, you spendwe spend sometimes 20 hours on
our reports and the team wouldlook at the report and they're
like okay, this is cool, butlike what does it?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
mean.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
And what are you talking about?
And when I would have studentsin the IEPs and I really am so
big on having students involvedin the IEPs and I really am so
big on having students involvedin the IEPs I would look at the
testing I wrote and I'm like Ican't talk about this.
I can't just spit out a bunchof test scores.
I need to speak their language.
And so I kind of adjusted how Iwrote reports and I really
(03:01):
worked on what am I doing here,what is everyone else doing here
, and how can we make plans thatare really sensible and usable
and get passed all thosestandardized test scores that
missed the mark and help kidsthrive?
And so, after 20 years, I leftthe field of school psychology
because I wanted to be anadvocate.
But I wanted to do somethingdifferent.
(03:23):
I wanted to bridge the gapbetween parents and schools and
teachers and make it so thatplans are easier and make it so
that parents have the tools andthe resources they need and they
don't feel like they're goingto cry after IEPs and also
teachers are not like, oh mygosh, another 50 page IEP, like
(03:43):
what am I doing here?
Right, what I formulated atRISE is a much different way to
approach special education and504s, which is really explaining
what it looks like talking tokids and students and teachers
about how you can empoweryourself at the table and really
demystifying the process andmaking it better.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Right.
That's amazing and it'sabsolutely something that I'm so
passionate about, and I'venever heard somebody talk about
the school psychologistperspective and how that informs
everything that we do.
If we don't have that goodstarting place and that starting
point where you'reunderstanding and you're working
(04:28):
out that experience you hadearly on and then moving into,
how do we make this better?
That's incredible and I wishthat well.
You're blazing a trail herebecause I think that's just.
It's something that needs to bedone differently.
How do we pull all of thosethings together?
It has to thread through fromthe evaluation to the transition
(04:50):
plan, to the IEP, to having thestudent really understand and
being powerful in the process.
So, self-determination, april.
How do what's your approach forreally building those skills
early on with students withfunctional skills and really
meaningful goals that we need tocreate for students to support
(05:15):
them all the way through theprocess so that they're taking
ownership?
What's your approach forself-determination and
instilling that with them?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
It's such a great question.
So you touched on a reallyimportant point functional
academics.
If you look at many IEPs underthe present levels page, it
actually will call it presentlevels of performance and
functional performance.
It actually says the wordfunctional, but what tends to
get missed with most IEPs isthat functional piece gets lost.
(05:46):
And that's why I touched on thepoint earlier about
standardized tests tend to missthe mark because they don't show
us what kids can do.
They don't show us what theyneed to learn.
They're just a data point, anda data point is a data point.
But that's not going to showmotivation.
It's not going to showincidental learning, how we
(06:08):
generalize something from maybe,speech your child to the IEP
when they're in second grade.
Invite your child to the IEP, nomatter how young they are and
(06:30):
no matter what kind ofdisability they have.
Every child is able tocommunicate in their own way
what they like, what they don'tlike, what works for them,
mystifying the process of oh, wedon't want to share the IEP, or
well, we don't want them toknow that they go to a room.
Kids are smart.
They already know that.
They go to another room.
(06:50):
I'm going to speech.
They know that.
So why not empower them bymaking it?
This is your meeting and we'rehere, and what works for you?
What do you like?
So bringing kids to their IEPand introducing them earlier
than when the law tells them tocome?
There's nothing in IDA law thattells families you can't invite
(07:13):
your child whenever you want.
You're absolutely unable toinvite your child, and so when
you invite your child to themeeting before you bring them
there, you're gonna want to talkwith your child in whatever
communication form that theyfeel comfortable with.
So if they're a middle schoolerand they've never been to an
IEP, okay, well, we know you goto a resource.
(07:34):
What is working for you in theresource?
What do you like about?
I call them the case carrier,but it's your special education
teacher.
What's working for you?
Is this accommodation here?
Let's look at the page Likedoes that accommodation really
work for you?
Do you like Mrs So-and-so?
Is she helpful to you, is it?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
like we don't like that.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
So it's kind of empowering them at the table.
And then when you're at themeeting, yes, you're the mom and
you're still in charge untilwhat's called the age of
majority, which is 18.
But you can look at your childand say, ok, what do you think
what's working for you?
Ok, here's the goal.
Does that seem like somethingyou want to work on?
And what I tell families allthe time is, when you invite
(08:16):
your child to the meeting, itchanges things.
When I was a school psych and Iwas reading a report, if the
student was there, I had tostart talking about the stuff
(08:47):
they can do.
I had to start talking aboutokay, this is easy for you, this
is hard.
This is what they're done withhigh school, whether they age
out, they go to college or theygo on to some post-secondary
institution.
Perhaps they want to utilizetheir accommodation, perhaps
they want to apply fordisability support, right, if
they don't know what's in theirplan and they don't know how to
advocate, it's going to bereally hard.
Very so, empowering your childand training them, and that's
absolutely to advocate.
It's going to be really hard.
So, empowering your child andtraining them, and that's
(09:08):
absolutely what the IEP teamneeds to be doing.
We're always talking aboutself-advocacy.
Bring your child to the meetingis like the easiest and best
way to start that path forward.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Right, and how about this?
Let's not surprise them withthe meeting that's coming right.
Let's, like you said, trainthem ahead of time and let them
know what that's going to belike, instead of just you know.
Oh, it's at three o'clock andthere's going to be a whole
bunch of adults around youstaring at you and waiting for
you to say something.
Prep, look like.
(09:48):
How can teachers better equiptheir students in a more
systematic way, where it's not asurprise, where they are
prepared?
What do you see with that?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
It's a great question and what I see is showing you
know, especially when kids areolder let's say middle school
and high school and perhaps theyhave a resource or they have
some services, but they're ableto be integrated with their
non-disabled peers or they're ona diploma track and they're
able to read and understand someof the IEP documents, so
(10:13):
students are able to look atthat.
So if you sit down with astudent not the day before but
maybe two weeks before and likeokay, here's the goals we're
working on, right, how is thisworking for you?
Or here's the accommodations,like do you like this one?
Is it working for you, is itnot?
The conversation starts early.
When I was a school psychologist, I worked at high school when I
(10:35):
would be counseling a studentfor a service on their IEP.
My first session was I'm April,this is what I do, you are
so-and-so.
Tell me about yourself and alsopulling out the IEP and looking
at okay, here's the goal we'resupposed to be working on, what
do you think about that?
Like what are some of yourideas?
I would make it inclusive and Iwould show them the paper.
(10:57):
And then, when we came to theIEP, they're like oh yeah,
that's a goal we're supposed tobe working on, because if you're
working on something withsomeone else and you don't know
what you're working on, how isthat helpful, exactly.
So it's just making, it'sdemystifying it.
It's making it easier for kidsthat have more substantial
difficulties or maybe struggleto communicate.
(11:17):
There's all different kinds ofways that we can approach it,
and it's meeting the kids wherethey're at and figuring out OK,
what do they understand and howcan we kind of make it easier
for them.
So the conversation reallystarts at the beginning, and
every year you get a new casecarrier.
So that's when the conversationstarts, and it doesn't have to
(11:38):
be hours and hours.
It can be a few minutes here, afew minutes there, but it
definitely doesn't start whenyou call in the student to the
meeting and you're like hi, youhave an ITP, here we go.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Absolutely, and you know what I love about that,
april.
Your approach is so wonderfulbecause it's so relational, it's
so empowering, it's so honoringand respectful and I just
appreciate you know those stepsalong the way, starting early,
you know, giving them the powerto say is this goal working for
(12:10):
you, is it or isn't it?
My name's April, my name's Barb.
You know let's get to know eachother on a personal level and
then they're able to beself-determined and actually
managing their own educationaljourney and it's powerful.
So I can't wait for ourlisteners to be able to find you
(12:32):
and we'll get all thatinformation for them, definitely
in the show notes anddefinitely we want to be really
clear, for how do we get moreinformation to them about your
work?
There's one thing we're talkingabout relationships, and
relationships with families isso important and in your work I
can see it's just such apowerful role that you play in
walking with parents andfamilies along that journey and
(12:55):
students.
Can you highlight just oneabsolute win that comes to mind
as far as a family, withoutgiving any names or any real
descriptives?
Can you highlight one family orinteraction with a team that
you reflect on and you're justlike, yes, that's how it should
(13:15):
go.
Can you give our listeners,kind of just paint that picture
for us.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, I had a mom a few months ago who approached me
, like many parents do, and shewas like I am drowning in these
IEPs, I am crying my eyes out, Ican't communicate with the team
and I am so frustrated I needyour help.
So that was her concern and wesat down and I looked at all the
records.
(13:40):
I always do that first withfamilies, so we know where we're
at, we identify the holes.
And then we sat down and weknew that her child was
transitioning to high school andshe was so panicked she was
like I don't know what to expect.
I don't know what to do.
I'm trying to prep my child butI haven't been through this
before, like I don't know.
And so we mapped it out and Igave her the options and I
(14:02):
talked about what it looks likeat a high school.
And then, when I came to themeeting, you know she was still
scared, but I prepped her andshowed her how to write what's
called a parent letter ofattachment and a parent report,
which is where you're laying outbefore the meeting and you're
communicating with the team.
Here's where my child is at,here's my child's strengths,
(14:23):
here's what I want us to talkabout and here's some
suggestions that I have where wecan tweak the IEP.
So we sat down at the meeting.
She brought out the paper andshe was still kind of like I
don't know if I can do this, andwe left the meeting and she was
like April I finally was ableto say the things that I wanted
to say.
I didn't lose it in the meetingand I had that paper and on
(14:47):
that paper it had all thosethoughts and what she told me
and it's so true for so many ofhis parents.
We get in the meeting, we'reoverwhelmed with the paperwork,
we're clamming up and then afterthe meeting we're like what
happened?
I wasn't able to tell peoplewhat I wanted to.
I got confused, I got lost.
(15:07):
I didn't have like my thoughtsin my mind because I didn't know
what to do, and so having thatpaperwork before and she just
brought it written down was thebiggest win for her and she was
so happy.
And of course, afterwards shewas still like shaking and just
like, oh my gosh, I did it.
But at the same time she waslike April the meetings aren't
(15:28):
going to be bad anymore Like Iam so happy.
And that was the biggest winfor me, barb, because she felt
better, she felt empowered andshe had the tools she needed
moving forward.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
She was equipped and you just walked with her.
You gave her the tools, walkedwith her, she wasn't alone and
she has the tools to be able togo ahead and continue down each
of those different amendments orwhatever, whatever they're
going to be going into.
But I guess you know youanswered that question so well.
(16:01):
It's part of.
The next question is justreally, what would be your
advice to give parents andteachers to better navigate the
IEP process, because it can beso daunting, and that was, you
know, just equipping them, likeyou.
Just how do you help them stepthrough it with confidence and
(16:21):
good information?
Right, that's meaningful to thestudent.
I guess your best advice, justsome points around, advice that
you'd give for the IEP process,yes, that's a great question.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I think the two biggest areas that people
struggle with at the table andthis is for teachers too there's
a kind of two different prongsthat have to be adjusted, and
they're communication anddocumentation.
If you're coming to the IEPsand they're not going well, then
(16:56):
you have to adjust your methodright.
If you're going into just likeif you have a really toxic
relationship with a significantother, a friend or whatever, and
it's not going well, the onlyway it's going to get better is
if you change your approach.
So focusing on okay, this isn'tworking, what am I going to do
differently?
I know I can't change everyoneelse at the table, but I can
(17:19):
change my approach, and when Ichange my approach it's going to
make it easier and better.
And then thinking about IEPs asa negotiation because it truly
is, it's not that in stone youget to the meeting and you don't
kind of wait till there to talkabout it, and you don't kind of
wait till there to talk aboutit.
So what I'm talking about isyou start your communication way
(17:41):
before.
So every good advocate knowsthat 90% of our communication
and prep work comes before theIEP.
And then, when you're at themeeting, you're kind of like
reviewing, summarizing okay, Igot the drafts, all right, this
is what we got before.
All right, let's go through andhash it out and then at the end
(18:02):
, hopefully it should be mostlythe plan that you had hoped for
and there weren't surprisesbecause you did all that prep
before.
The other aspect that peoplestruggle with the most is
documentation, and that's whereit comes to empowering yourself
by understanding what theprocess looks like.
So one of the things that I dowith my families is I show them
(18:24):
what to expect by showing themwhat an IEP looks like, what a
504 plan looks like, and if theyunderstand what it looks like,
then they know oh okay, now Iunderstand what I can ask for
and how to get it, because Ihave seen this before.
Right, most families who cometo the IEP fifth, one or 10th
(18:46):
one a lot of the stuff thathappens at the meeting is
because everyone else is sittingthere with all this paperwork
and documentation and you don'thave it.
So that's why I try to empowerfamilies by giving them the
tools and the resources, whetherit's templates or workshops
that kind of show them here'swhat it looks like.
Now you have the tools, how areyou going to take all that
(19:10):
stuff you know is mama and beable to translate it into?
Here's my child, here's whatthey need and here's what I want
you to do about it.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Oh well, so you know.
That kind of leads me to mynext question, and I hope this
doesn't throw a curveball at youor anything, but I don't know
how many families you work within the transition years 18 to 21
to 22, you know, into adulthood, empowering them when the
parent is kind of just handingthose keys over.
(19:42):
Which is my passion area is howdo we take that mom knows all
of the information and thenschools know all of this
information, and then we go toadult service agencies, right,
and now they don't have theinformation.
And why don't we have thebridge over?
How do we build that bridge sothat information that shouldn't
(20:06):
just you know being weighingdown for the parent and doesn't
only rest on the student, it hasto be carried through from our
school systems to our adultservice agencies?
How do you get that threadthrough in the transition years?
Can you speak to that just alittle bit?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, that's a really good point that you bring up
Barb, because a lot of advocateswill kind of a parent will call
and they'll be like my child isgoing to college, I don't know
what to do, and then theadvocates will say, well, I only
do K-12.
This is not my thing, andthere's a few of us out there
besides myself who kind ofspecialize in this area.
But that's one of the areasthat I specialize in is how to
(20:49):
take your IEP or 504 to college.
So when it comes to accessingdisability support in college,
the barriers are there in termsof there's usually only like 11
to 12% of all students withdisabilities who have an IEP or
a 504 or some type of disabilitysupport in high school that
actually apply, get accepted andaccess disability service, and
(21:13):
that is a huge problem.
And one of the biggest reasonswhy is what I touched on earlier
is that the students aren'treally inclusive in the process.
They aren't really informedabout.
Okay, here's what it's going tolook like in college.
And also, when they're lookingfor the college search, the
families are like all right,we're looking at this cool
(21:33):
school, you know it's awesomeschool, it's got this like Ivy
League and it's got the name.
Well, what about the disabilitysupports here?
Let's go check out thedisability center.
The amazing thing out there,barb, is that there are hundreds
and hundreds of colleges outthere that cater to
neurodivergent kids, that havewhat's called fee-based
disability services, meaningthey don't just have the basics,
(21:56):
which is where you can getaccess to support or maybe
accommodations through a 504,but you can pay for additional
services, meaning you can getexecutive functioning services,
you can get supports, you canhave an academic coach.
There's all these layers thatare on top of it.
But the biggest thing thatfamilies need to know is that
you don't start this the secondthat they go off to college.
(22:19):
The conversation starts earlier, by sitting down with your teen
and being like OK, we'relooking at colleges, these look
awesome.
Let's go check out theDisability Center, let's see
what it is.
And then, when you are acceptedinto the university of choice,
then that's part of the processis not just applying for housing
and not just applying for thefood and meals and paying the
(22:39):
tuition.
It's like all right, do we haveall the disability docs?
Okay, now you're 18, the age ofmajority sets in and according
to FERPA, that means mom, Idon't have access to my child
documents and so getting theparents to know what a FERPA
waiver is and understanding thatthey're not going to have
access to those tools withoutsome type of FERPA waiver or a
(23:03):
proxy so they can access theirchild documents.
And then the child knows I gotmy disability services, I
applied, I have my IEP with meand then when they start day one
in college, they've got thetools.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Right, which is where we want them to be, and so
you're saying that your servicesthrough RISE could help those
families in that context as well.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I have a guide, I have a fillable guide that I
sell on Teachers Pay Teachers.
That walks you through theprocess and it's great with
teens, with students, withteachers.
But yeah, he explains theprocess and makes it really easy
.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I can't wait to see it.
I'm going to get ahold of that.
All right, here's a finalquestion for you.
So, looking out over your wholejourney, if you could go back
in time, what quick words ofwisdom would you write in a
letter to yourself?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I think the quick words of wisdom would you write
in a letter to yourself.
I think the quick words ofwisdom that I would write to
myself is don't sweat the smallstuff.
And so many times as moms,we're sitting in our kids' IEPs
and 504s and we're so stressedabout the smallest little thing
30 minutes of speech, 20 minutesof this and we're so caught up
(24:18):
in the moment and it's hard forus to pull back and think okay,
my son is going to be going tomiddle school next year.
I know they don't want to havean aid.
What do I need to do to getthere?
So one of the things that Ipractice with my families is
working on a vision plan.
Okay, and that's the areaswhere schools struggle.
Is they only look at one yearfrom now, six months from now,
(24:40):
whatever the progress reportssay, or the 504 size that we
moms work at every single IEPfor years and years and years?
We look at the big picture andwe have to remind ourselves that
it isn't about 30 minutes ofspeech.
It's about what do we want todo to get our kids where they
need to go and to capitalize ontheir strengths by thinking
(25:01):
about here's my vision for mychild, and here's what they want
to do in three years.
What am I going to do, a littleby little, to get them?
Speaker 1 (25:09):
there.
Yes, I love that.
Well, april, this is not longenough to have time with you.
There is so much more I want toask you, but if our listeners
want to reach out to you, isthere a place where you can send
us to your email, or how do webest find you on your platform,
social media and all the things?
(25:30):
Can you tell us yourinformation for how we can get
more information about yourservices?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Sure Barb, they can contact me at my website, which
is riseeducationaladvocacycombackslash contact, and then I
tend to do a lot on Instagram.
They can find me atriseedadvocacy, and this fall,
depending on when this podcastis going to drop, I'm really
excited to open my YouTubechannel.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yes, that's going to be exciting.
I will definitely be checkingthat out and I'm excited for you
and your next steps, and justthank you so much for taking the
time with me today and with usto share your perspective, your
journey, and it's really reallyinspiring and impactful to hear
all of the advice that you haveto offer, and I know a lot of
(26:18):
families have been and will bereally encouraged and grow a lot
from what wealth of informationthat you have.
So, thank you so much fortaking the time with us.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
My pleasure, Barb.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Take care.
All right.
Well, I'm so excited today tohave a chance to talk to you,
april, for the FAST15, and justget to know you and find out
about where you have been onyour journey in special
education and supportingfamilies and students in
particular, and just where allof your work started with RISE
and kind of the development andjourney that you've been on.
Thank you for joining us.
Thanks for having me.
(00:20):
So tell us so do you want me toget to, kind of my background
of journey that you've been on?
Thank you for joining us.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So tell us, so do you want me to get to kind of my
background of where I've been?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yes, please get into the background.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Well, it's kind of I'll give you the short and
skinny of it I was always sortof involved with students
neurodivergent kids.
I started volunteering when Iwas 11 in a neurodivergent
classroom and I loved it and Iwas raised in a family of
educators.
I would sit in my aunt'sclassroom and just look at her
and wonder, because she wasfunny and hilarious and no
(00:54):
matter what kind of kid was inthere, they loved her.
And that's what makes a greateducator is someone who speaks
to you and it just really youknow is someone who speaks to
you and it just really you know.
It tugged at my heart and so Idecided to become a teacher and
my first couple of years as anew teacher I'm sure some of
your listeners will resonatewith this, but I got the most
(01:15):
difficult kids and the mostamount of boys in anyone else's
class as a new teacher and Ithought at 21, I knew it all.
I thought at 21, if a kidstruggled, that they definitely
needed an IEP.
So I referred a bunch of kids.
I'm like I know exactly whatthey need.
They are not doing well, theyare not listening, so they have
(01:37):
learning disabilities.
And the psychologist looked atme and she said you know what,
april, you keep referring methese kids and most of them
don't qualify and it's becauseyou're not teaching them to
their needs.
Some of the kids wereexceptionally gifted but they
were failing and I didn'trecognize that and I wasn't
(01:58):
working with their strengths,which is what I talk about a lot
.
So it turned me on and turnedme inside out and brought open
this new field to my heartcalled school psychology.
And so I was a school psych for20 years.
I went into teaching a littlebit and I loved it.
I loved it.
But the thing that I didn'tlove was coming to the IEPs
(02:21):
because they were just run sopoorly.
And you know, as a school psych, you come into the meeting, you
do all this testing, you spendwe spend sometimes 20 hours on
our reports and the team wouldlook at the report and they're
like okay, this is cool, butlike what does it?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
mean.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
And what are you talking about?
And when I would have studentsin the IEPs and I really am so
big on having students involvedin the IEPs and I really am so
big on having students involvedin the IEPs I would look at the
testing I wrote and I'm like Ican't talk about this.
I can't just spit out a bunchof test scores.
I need to speak their language.
And so I kind of adjusted how Iwrote reports and I really
(03:01):
worked on what am I doing here,what is everyone else doing here
, and how can we make plans thatare really sensible and usable
and get passed all thosestandardized test scores that
missed the mark and help kidsthrive?
And so, after 20 years, I leftthe field of school psychology
because I wanted to be anadvocate.
But I wanted to do somethingdifferent.
(03:23):
I wanted to bridge the gapbetween parents and schools and
teachers and make it so thatplans are easier and make it so
that parents have the tools andthe resources they need and they
don't feel like they're goingto cry after IEPs and also
teachers are not like, oh mygosh, another 50 page IEP, like
(03:43):
what am I doing here?
Right, what I formulated atRISE is a much different way to
approach special education and504s, which is really explaining
what it looks like talking tokids and students and teachers
about how you can empoweryourself at the table and really
demystifying the process andmaking it better.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Right.
That's amazing and it'sabsolutely something that I'm so
passionate about, and I'venever heard somebody talk about
the school psychologistperspective and how that informs
everything that we do.
If we don't have that goodstarting place and that starting
point where you'reunderstanding and you're working
(04:28):
out that experience you hadearly on and then moving into,
how do we make this better?
That's incredible and I wishthat well.
You're blazing a trail herebecause I think that's just.
It's something that needs to bedone differently.
How do we pull all of thosethings together?
It has to thread through fromthe evaluation to the transition
(04:50):
plan, to the IEP, to having thestudent really understand and
being powerful in the process.
So, self-determination, april.
How do what's your approach forreally building those skills
early on with students withfunctional skills and really
meaningful goals that we need tocreate for students to support
(05:15):
them all the way through theprocess so that they're taking
ownership?
What's your approach forself-determination and
instilling that with them?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
It's such a great question.
So you touched on a reallyimportant point functional
academics.
If you look at many IEPs underthe present levels page, it
actually will call it presentlevels of performance and
functional performance.
It actually says the wordfunctional, but what tends to
get missed with most IEPs isthat functional piece gets lost.
(05:46):
And that's why I touched on thepoint earlier about
standardized tests tend to missthe mark because they don't show
us what kids can do.
They don't show us what theyneed to learn.
They're just a data point, anda data point is a data point.
But that's not going to showmotivation.
It's not going to showincidental learning, how we
(06:08):
generalize something from maybe,speech your child to the IEP
when they're in second grade.
Invite your child to the IEP, nomatter how young they are and
(06:30):
no matter what kind ofdisability they have.
Every child is able tocommunicate in their own way
what they like, what they don'tlike, what works for them,
mystifying the process of oh, wedon't want to share the IEP, or
well, we don't want them toknow that they go to a room.
Kids are smart.
They already know that.
They go to another room.
(06:50):
I'm going to speech.
They know that.
So why not empower them bymaking it?
This is your meeting and we'rehere, and what works for you?
What do you like?
So bringing kids to their IEPand introducing them earlier
than when the law tells them tocome?
There's nothing in IDA law thattells families you can't invite
(07:13):
your child whenever you want.
You're absolutely unable toinvite your child, and so when
you invite your child to themeeting before you bring them
there, you're gonna want to talkwith your child in whatever
communication form that theyfeel comfortable with.
So if they're a middle schoolerand they've never been to an
IEP, okay, well, we know you goto a resource.
(07:34):
What is working for you in theresource?
What do you like about?
I call them the case carrier,but it's your special education
teacher.
What's working for you?
Is this accommodation here?
Let's look at the page Likedoes that accommodation really
work for you?
Do you like Mrs So-and-so?
Is she helpful to you, is it?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
like we don't like that.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
So it's kind of empowering them at the table.
And then when you're at themeeting, yes, you're the mom and
you're still in charge untilwhat's called the age of
majority, which is 18.
But you can look at your childand say, ok, what do you think
what's working for you?
Ok, here's the goal.
Does that seem like somethingyou want to work on?
And what I tell families allthe time is, when you invite
(08:16):
your child to the meeting, itchanges things.
When I was a school psych and Iwas reading a report, if the
student was there, I had tostart talking about the stuff
(08:47):
they can do.
I had to start talking aboutokay, this is easy for you, this
is hard.
This is what they're done withhigh school, whether they age
out, they go to college or theygo on to some post-secondary
institution.
Perhaps they want to utilizetheir accommodation, perhaps
they want to apply fordisability support, right, if
they don't know what's in theirplan and they don't know how to
advocate, it's going to bereally hard.
Very so, empowering your childand training them, and that's
absolutely to advocate.
It's going to be really hard.
So, empowering your child andtraining them, and that's
(09:08):
absolutely what the IEP teamneeds to be doing.
We're always talking aboutself-advocacy.
Bring your child to the meetingis like the easiest and best
way to start that path forward.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Right, and how about this?
Let's not surprise them withthe meeting that's coming right.
Let's, like you said, trainthem ahead of time and let them
know what that's going to belike, instead of just you know.
Oh, it's at three o'clock andthere's going to be a whole
bunch of adults around youstaring at you and waiting for
you to say something.
Prep, look like.
(09:48):
How can teachers better equiptheir students in a more
systematic way, where it's not asurprise, where they are
prepared?
What do you see with that?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
It's a great question and what I see is showing you
know, especially when kids areolder let's say middle school
and high school and perhaps theyhave a resource or they have
some services, but they're ableto be integrated with their
non-disabled peers or they're ona diploma track and they're
able to read and understand someof the IEP documents, so
(10:13):
students are able to look atthat.
So if you sit down with astudent not the day before but
maybe two weeks before and likeokay, here's the goals we're
working on, right, how is thisworking for you?
Or here's the accommodations,like do you like this one?
Is it working for you, is itnot?
The conversation starts early.
When I was a school psychologist, I worked at high school when I
(10:35):
would be counseling a studentfor a service on their IEP.
My first session was I'm April,this is what I do, you are
so-and-so.
Tell me about yourself and alsopulling out the IEP and looking
at okay, here's the goal we'resupposed to be working on, what
do you think about that?
Like what are some of yourideas?
I would make it inclusive and Iwould show them the paper.
(10:57):
And then, when we came to theIEP, they're like oh yeah,
that's a goal we're supposed tobe working on, because if you're
working on something withsomeone else and you don't know
what you're working on, how isthat helpful, exactly.
So it's just making, it'sdemystifying it.
It's making it easier for kidsthat have more substantial
difficulties or maybe struggleto communicate.
(11:17):
There's all different kinds ofways that we can approach it,
and it's meeting the kids wherethey're at and figuring out OK,
what do they understand and howcan we kind of make it easier
for them.
So the conversation reallystarts at the beginning, and
every year you get a new casecarrier.
So that's when the conversationstarts, and it doesn't have to
(11:38):
be hours and hours.
It can be a few minutes here, afew minutes there, but it
definitely doesn't start whenyou call in the student to the
meeting and you're like hi, youhave an ITP, here we go.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Absolutely, and you know what I love about that,
april.
Your approach is so wonderfulbecause it's so relational, it's
so empowering, it's so honoringand respectful and I just
appreciate you know those stepsalong the way, starting early,
you know, giving them the powerto say is this goal working for
(12:10):
you, is it or isn't it?
My name's April, my name's Barb.
You know let's get to know eachother on a personal level and
then they're able to beself-determined and actually
managing their own educationaljourney and it's powerful.
So I can't wait for ourlisteners to be able to find you
(12:32):
and we'll get all thatinformation for them, definitely
in the show notes anddefinitely we want to be really
clear, for how do we get moreinformation to them about your
work?
There's one thing we're talkingabout relationships, and
relationships with families isso important and in your work I
can see it's just such apowerful role that you play in
walking with parents andfamilies along that journey and
(12:55):
students.
Can you highlight just oneabsolute win that comes to mind
as far as a family, withoutgiving any names or any real
descriptives?
Can you highlight one family orinteraction with a team that
you reflect on and you're justlike, yes, that's how it should
(13:15):
go.
Can you give our listeners,kind of just paint that picture
for us.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, I had a mom a few months ago who approached me
, like many parents do, and shewas like I am drowning in these
IEPs, I am crying my eyes out, Ican't communicate with the team
and I am so frustrated I needyour help.
So that was her concern and wesat down and I looked at all the
records.
(13:40):
I always do that first withfamilies, so we know where we're
at, we identify the holes.
And then we sat down and weknew that her child was
transitioning to high school andshe was so panicked she was
like I don't know what to expect.
I don't know what to do.
I'm trying to prep my child butI haven't been through this
before, like I don't know.
And so we mapped it out and Igave her the options and I
(14:02):
talked about what it looks likeat a high school.
And then, when I came to themeeting, you know she was still
scared, but I prepped her andshowed her how to write what's
called a parent letter ofattachment and a parent report,
which is where you're laying outbefore the meeting and you're
communicating with the team.
Here's where my child is at,here's my child's strengths,
(14:23):
here's what I want us to talkabout and here's some
suggestions that I have where wecan tweak the IEP.
So we sat down at the meeting.
She brought out the paper andshe was still kind of like I
don't know if I can do this, andwe left the meeting and she was
like April I finally was ableto say the things that I wanted
to say.
I didn't lose it in the meetingand I had that paper and on
(14:47):
that paper it had all thosethoughts and what she told me
and it's so true for so many ofhis parents.
We get in the meeting, we'reoverwhelmed with the paperwork,
we're clamming up and then afterthe meeting we're like what
happened?
I wasn't able to tell peoplewhat I wanted to.
I got confused, I got lost.
(15:07):
I didn't have like my thoughtsin my mind because I didn't know
what to do, and so having thatpaperwork before and she just
brought it written down was thebiggest win for her and she was
so happy.
And of course, afterwards shewas still like shaking and just
like, oh my gosh, I did it.
But at the same time she waslike April the meetings aren't
(15:28):
going to be bad anymore Like Iam so happy.
And that was the biggest winfor me, barb, because she felt
better, she felt empowered andshe had the tools she needed
moving forward.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
She was equipped and you just walked with her.
You gave her the tools, walkedwith her, she wasn't alone and
she has the tools to be able togo ahead and continue down each
of those different amendments orwhatever, whatever they're
going to be going into.
But I guess you know youanswered that question so well.
(16:01):
It's part of.
The next question is justreally, what would be your
advice to give parents andteachers to better navigate the
IEP process, because it can beso daunting, and that was, you
know, just equipping them, likeyou.
Just how do you help them stepthrough it with confidence and
(16:21):
good information?
Right, that's meaningful to thestudent.
I guess your best advice, justsome points around, advice that
you'd give for the IEP process,yes, that's a great question.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I think the two biggest areas that people
struggle with at the table andthis is for teachers too there's
a kind of two different prongsthat have to be adjusted, and
they're communication anddocumentation.
If you're coming to the IEPsand they're not going well, then
(16:56):
you have to adjust your methodright.
If you're going into just likeif you have a really toxic
relationship with a significantother, a friend or whatever, and
it's not going well, the onlyway it's going to get better is
if you change your approach.
So focusing on okay, this isn'tworking, what am I going to do
differently?
I know I can't change everyoneelse at the table, but I can
(17:19):
change my approach, and when Ichange my approach it's going to
make it easier and better.
And then thinking about IEPs asa negotiation because it truly
is, it's not that in stone youget to the meeting and you don't
kind of wait till there to talkabout it, and you don't kind of
wait till there to talk aboutit.
So what I'm talking about isyou start your communication way
(17:41):
before.
So every good advocate knowsthat 90% of our communication
and prep work comes before theIEP.
And then, when you're at themeeting, you're kind of like
reviewing, summarizing okay, Igot the drafts, all right, this
is what we got before.
All right, let's go through andhash it out and then at the end
(18:02):
, hopefully it should be mostlythe plan that you had hoped for
and there weren't surprisesbecause you did all that prep
before.
The other aspect that peoplestruggle with the most is
documentation, and that's whereit comes to empowering yourself
by understanding what theprocess looks like.
So one of the things that I dowith my families is I show them
(18:24):
what to expect by showing themwhat an IEP looks like, what a
504 plan looks like, and if theyunderstand what it looks like,
then they know oh okay, now Iunderstand what I can ask for
and how to get it, because Ihave seen this before.
Right, most families who cometo the IEP fifth, one or 10th
(18:46):
one a lot of the stuff thathappens at the meeting is
because everyone else is sittingthere with all this paperwork
and documentation and you don'thave it.
So that's why I try to empowerfamilies by giving them the
tools and the resources, whetherit's templates or workshops
that kind of show them here'swhat it looks like.
Now you have the tools, how areyou going to take all that
(19:10):
stuff you know is mama and beable to translate it into?
Here's my child, here's whatthey need and here's what I want
you to do about it.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Oh well, so you know.
That kind of leads me to mynext question, and I hope this
doesn't throw a curveball at youor anything, but I don't know
how many families you work within the transition years 18 to 21
to 22, you know, into adulthood, empowering them when the
parent is kind of just handingthose keys over.
(19:42):
Which is my passion area is howdo we take that mom knows all
of the information and thenschools know all of this
information, and then we go toadult service agencies, right,
and now they don't have theinformation.
And why don't we have thebridge over?
How do we build that bridge sothat information that shouldn't
(20:06):
just you know being weighingdown for the parent and doesn't
only rest on the student, it hasto be carried through from our
school systems to our adultservice agencies?
How do you get that threadthrough in the transition years?
Can you speak to that just alittle bit?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, that's a really good point that you bring up
Barb, because a lot of advocateswill kind of a parent will call
and they'll be like my child isgoing to college, I don't know
what to do, and then theadvocates will say, well, I only
do K-12.
This is not my thing, andthere's a few of us out there
besides myself who kind ofspecialize in this area.
But that's one of the areasthat I specialize in is how to
(20:49):
take your IEP or 504 to college.
So when it comes to accessingdisability support in college,
the barriers are there in termsof there's usually only like 11
to 12% of all students withdisabilities who have an IEP or
a 504 or some type of disabilitysupport in high school that
actually apply, get accepted andaccess disability service, and
(21:13):
that is a huge problem.
And one of the biggest reasonswhy is what I touched on earlier
is that the students aren'treally inclusive in the process.
They aren't really informedabout.
Okay, here's what it's going tolook like in college.
And also, when they're lookingfor the college search, the
families are like all right,we're looking at this cool
(21:33):
school, you know it's awesomeschool, it's got this like Ivy
League and it's got the name.
Well, what about the disabilitysupports here?
Let's go check out thedisability center.
The amazing thing out there,barb, is that there are hundreds
and hundreds of colleges outthere that cater to
neurodivergent kids, that havewhat's called fee-based
disability services, meaningthey don't just have the basics,
(21:56):
which is where you can getaccess to support or maybe
accommodations through a 504,but you can pay for additional
services, meaning you can getexecutive functioning services,
you can get supports, you canhave an academic coach.
There's all these layers thatare on top of it.
But the biggest thing thatfamilies need to know is that
you don't start this the secondthat they go off to college.
(22:19):
The conversation starts earlier, by sitting down with your teen
and being like OK, we'relooking at colleges, these look
awesome.
Let's go check out theDisability Center, let's see
what it is.
And then, when you are acceptedinto the university of choice,
then that's part of the processis not just applying for housing
and not just applying for thefood and meals and paying the
(22:39):
tuition.
It's like all right, do we haveall the disability docs?
Okay, now you're 18, the age ofmajority sets in and according
to FERPA, that means mom, Idon't have access to my child
documents and so getting theparents to know what a FERPA
waiver is and understanding thatthey're not going to have
access to those tools withoutsome type of FERPA waiver or a
(23:03):
proxy so they can access theirchild documents.
And then the child knows I gotmy disability services, I
applied, I have my IEP with meand then when they start day one
in college, they've got thetools.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Right, which is where we want them to be, and so
you're saying that your servicesthrough RISE could help those
families in that context as well.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I have a guide, I have a fillable guide that I
sell on Teachers Pay Teachers.
That walks you through theprocess and it's great with
teens, with students, withteachers.
But yeah, he explains theprocess and makes it really easy
.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I can't wait to see it.
I'm going to get ahold of that.
All right, here's a finalquestion for you.
So, looking out over your wholejourney, if you could go back
in time, what quick words ofwisdom would you write in a
letter to yourself?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I think the quick words of wisdom would you write
in a letter to yourself.
I think the quick words ofwisdom that I would write to
myself is don't sweat the smallstuff.
And so many times as moms,we're sitting in our kids' IEPs
and 504s and we're so stressedabout the smallest little thing
30 minutes of speech, 20 minutesof this and we're so caught up
(24:18):
in the moment and it's hard forus to pull back and think okay,
my son is going to be going tomiddle school next year.
I know they don't want to havean aid.
What do I need to do to getthere?
So one of the things that Ipractice with my families is
working on a vision plan.
Okay, and that's the areaswhere schools struggle.
Is they only look at one yearfrom now, six months from now,
(24:40):
whatever the progress reportssay, or the 504 size that we
moms work at every single IEPfor years and years and years?
We look at the big picture andwe have to remind ourselves that
it isn't about 30 minutes ofspeech.
It's about what do we want todo to get our kids where they
need to go and to capitalize ontheir strengths by thinking
(25:01):
about here's my vision for mychild, and here's what they want
to do in three years.
What am I going to do, a littleby little, to get them?
Speaker 1 (25:09):
there.
Yes, I love that.
Well, april, this is not longenough to have time with you.
There is so much more I want toask you, but if our listeners
want to reach out to you, isthere a place where you can send
us to your email, or how do webest find you on your platform,
social media and all the things?
(25:30):
Can you tell us yourinformation for how we can get
more information about yourservices?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Sure Barb, they can contact me at my website, which
is riseeducationaladvocacycombackslash contact, and then I
tend to do a lot on Instagram.
They can find me atriseedadvocacy, and this fall,
depending on when this podcastis going to drop, I'm really
excited to open my YouTubechannel.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yes, that's going to be exciting.
I will definitely be checkingthat out and I'm excited for you
and your next steps, and justthank you so much for taking the
time with me today and with usto share your perspective, your
journey, and it's really reallyinspiring and impactful to hear
all of the advice that you haveto offer, and I know a lot of
(26:18):
families have been and will bereally encouraged and grow a lot
from what wealth of informationthat you have.
So, thank you so much fortaking the time with us.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
My pleasure, Barb.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Take care.
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