EP 38: John Skinner Talks Catching Fluke, Striper & Murder Stories

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Rich Natoli welcomes saltwater fishing legend John Skinner to discuss fluke and striped bass fishing strategies up and down the East Coast, exploring the nuances of finding keeper-sized fish during a challenging season.

You'll pick up cinder worm hatch strategies, hear the results of a "lights on the water" experiment, and John's encounter with a murderer! 

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Episode Transcript

John Skinner (00:00):
The only time I'm going to leave fish to find
bigger ones is if I'm not evengetting close.
So our limit is 19 inches.
If the fish are all coming up14, 16 inches, I'm thinking real
serious about moving from that.

Rich Natoli (00:18):
Hello and welcome back to the Fat Dad Fishing Show
.
I'm your host, rich Natoli, andwe do this show because nothing
says responsible adult like a$400 fishing rod, $700 reel and
unpaid taxes.
Tonight, I'm really excitedabout this one because we're
going to be joined by JohnSkinner truly an absolute legend

(00:41):
in the fishing community forsaltwater all up and down the
coast fishing in Florida now too, and we're going to go into
look as deep as a dive as we canduring a normal conversation
about fluke fishing striper.
Any questions that you have forthose that are on the live
stream, make sure you put thosein chat.
I will do my best to bring themon.

(01:02):
This is really about getting asmuch information out there and
getting to know John a littlebit more than we do through the
videos and everything.
So this is the chance to dothat.
I'm really excited about that.
So put any questions, anythingthat you have, in there and I'll
do my best to keep up with it.
If you are here for the firsttime, thank you for checking out

(01:23):
the show.
Just want to say hey, if youenjoy it, hit the follow, leave
a review.
It really helps us grow.
The podcast helps us to getpeople to agree to come on as
guests as well.
So let's hit the sponsors realquick and then we're not going
to delay, we'll bring John righton.
Sponsors for this show.
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(01:46):
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(02:07):
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(02:27):
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Give me a call at 267-270-1145.
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(02:49):
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New Jersey, I have a ton ofpeople Delaware, all the way up
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except for Maine covered on theEast Coast.
So that's it.
We're going to dive right in.
We're going to bring John ontothe screen right now.
John, welcome to the stream.

(03:09):
Good to see you.
Oh, thanks for having me, rich.
Yeah, I was trying not to be toomuch of a fanboy in the
backstage area before we started.
There are certain people thatyou really want to talk to the,
the, the people that watch thisand listen to the podcast.
Actually, more people listen tothe podcast than watch this, a

(03:29):
lot more than watch the stream.
But the feedback that I get isalways when I say who should we
bring on?
You're literally number oneevery single time.
So it's got to say somethingabout you're doing something,
right, right, I hope so.
Yeah, yeah, I will say so.
And fluke fishing is fluke andstriped bass are definitely the
two most popular topics for thisaudience, both by the boat

(03:54):
offshore, inshore, back bays,surf fishing, all that, and you
pretty well cover all of itOcean fishing all the way, you
know, to the surf and to theland base.
So I think it'll be a goodconversation, okay, all right,
so I want to start now.
It's not going to be aninterview, but I want to start
off with a couple of things.
First of all, I do want tostart with fluke fishing,

(04:15):
because that is, I mean, that'swhat the season is right now.
Yes, people are still fishingfor striped bass.
They're still having somesuccess up and down the coast,
some areas better than others,but fluke really takes over at
this time of year.
How has your season been thisyear as compared to other
seasons?
Very, inconsistent.

John Skinner (04:36):
It depends on the body of water, all right.
So Peconic Bay, which is, forpeople who don't know the area
there, the water between theSouth Fork and the North Fork,
that area, terrible, horrible,as bad as I've seen it.
Long Island Sound pretty good,actually quite good.
Not quite to the standards ofmaybe eight or ten years ago and

(04:57):
earlier, but certainly it wasbetter than last year and last
year was definitely better thanthe three previous years.
So that was good.
The ocean fluking off ofmontauk, it was a much better
june than last year.
Now it's gotten very, veryinconsistent and a lot of
smaller fish and overall thesize isn't there.

(05:21):
And the size wasn't there lastyear.
I mean last year was tough andthis year is, I think, maybe
even tougher for size.
And by size I mean, look, itused to be, even just a couple
of years ago.
Every time we'd go out we'regoing to get at least one
seven-pounder.
I mean at least If we only gotone.
Well, you know a friend of mine, four trips in a row he had a
double digit.
Trips in a row, they had adouble digit.

(05:41):
You know, I mean that's, that'show good it was.
And you know, every year I'd geta few double digits and, and
then last year, boy, I probablybroke seven pounds, but not by
much.
And I have one about that sizethis year and even the like the
normal keepers, you know we'regetting in the ocean.
A lot of the keepers are like20, 21 inches here, cause, like

(06:07):
you, might as well fish in thebay, right, which is that's
funny.
I say that because tomorrowwe're gonna fish in, we're gonna
bay fish instead of ocean fish,because the ocean fishing today
was perhaps the worst trip I'veI've been on ever.
Yeah, I mean, I mean, look,when you put 100 miles on the
boat and you got four guys andthe guys that we had fishing,
they clearly knew what they weredoing, yeah, despite being from

(06:27):
New Jersey and everything andcalling the fish flounder.
We try, but oh no.
So, anyway, you know one keeper,it really truly was perhaps the
worst trip I've seen.
Now, contrast that with lastWednesday.
Anybody who was out there lastWednesday killed them.
You know same areas, goodconditions, um, so it's.

(06:49):
It's been up and down like that.
However, the the bay fishingnot great, and I'm talking about
the South shore base not great,but we're going to bay fish
tomorrow now.
So, yeah, it's okay.
It's been.
You know, when I've gone there,it's been pretty good.

Rich Natoli (07:07):
Yeah, it gives you an indication, I mean, when
you're choosing the bay over theocean.
It says a lot, right?
Well, we should never make.

John Skinner (07:14):
I mean, the decision is usually made based
on weather.
In fact, we would never evenconsider going to the bay as
opposed to the ocean, exceptthat we put 100 miles on the
boat for one keeper today.
Are we going to go and run thatplay again tomorrow?
No, no, not when we've beensuccessful and we have a good
tide on on the bay.
So we're going to do that, yeahyeah, it's funny.

Rich Natoli (07:36):
So we actually have in the chat kai ackerman.
So kai and billy ackermanthey're driving back from that
trip and uh, kai says hello,hasn't in a while.

John Skinner (07:44):
So he wanted to say, hi, yeah, a couple hours
yeah.

Rich Natoli (07:47):
And Kai was the one with the keeper is my
understanding.
So well done, kai.
But yeah, I mean it says a lotbecause it's pretty rare that if
, at this time of yearespecially that you're choosing
the bay over the ocean, I meanit's just not standard the way
that it has been for the pastcouple of decades.

John Skinner (08:08):
Right, but on the other hand, we were on the water
nine hours today.
I mean we probably fished sixof that.
Four guys in the water.
It's torture.
I hate to call fishing torture,but my goodness.
And we didn't see a fish comeup on anybody's boat.
It's not like we weren't doingwell.

(08:30):
We had friends out and theyonly had two keepers and they
they got that pretty late.
So yeah, it's, but the the moretroublesome thing is that even
the last two previous days I wasnot out but my friend was out.
He had charters and small fish.
I mean, they had some keepersbut they're 20, 21 inches.

(08:51):
We used to call Montauk keepers, where those are 24-inch fish,
standard five-pound 24-inch fish.
That's a Montauk keeper.
It's nothing special.
Now we're hustling for the net.
We see a 24 incher in the water.

Rich Natoli (09:08):
Yeah yeah, and I I have noticed in your videos this
year you're measuring a lotmore fish.
Oh yeah, well, we'd like to go.

John Skinner (09:15):
You didn't used to have to do that, yeah, yeah,
that's right, oh, yeah, you just, you just look at them, yeah,
yeah, and and we didn't used tocatch so many shorts.
So my my friend, john houthis,the captain, he said they had
between 60 and 70 shortsyesterday, which is ridiculous,
yeah.

Rich Natoli (09:32):
Yeah Well, I'm going to be heading out this
week, so hopefully I'm not onthe 60 or 70 shorts.
But here's a question for you.
Actually, I was going to askthis, but Carl Ward jumped into
the chat and he said well,what's the best way to single
out the bigger fluke when you'reheading out?
What are you specificallylooking for in an area?
Boy, that's a tough one.
Well, let's pretend it wasn'tbased on today, just, generally

(09:56):
speaking, the general answer tothat.

John Skinner (09:58):
Okay so the only time I'm going to leave fish to
find bigger ones is if I'm noteven getting close.
So our limit is 19 inches.
If the fish are all coming up14, 16 inches, I'm thinking real
serious about moving from thatand trying to find something
bigger.
But if we're coming close, ifwe're seeing good number 18s in

(10:21):
there, I'm going to just adjustthe drift.
We'll go up a little farther,go to.
You know, just adjust the drift.
You know, go up a littlefarther, go back a little more,
go to the side, because a lot oftimes these keepers they're in
pockets.
We saw that in Shinnecock Baylast week.
We, you know three keepers on ashort drift.
At one point we had the net,two of them at the same time and

(10:42):
they were bigger than the fishwe'd caught on the previous
ocean trip, which is nuts, yeahyeah, it's.

Rich Natoli (10:49):
I'll tell you what I I I have found.
I don't know if it's true ornot, but I believe that you,
they kind of run impacts incertain spots, right.
So if one spot is dominated bya small fish, there's no big
fish there, because the big fish, the best spots, the big fish
are kind of moving the littlefish away to the sides, so they
kind of congregate together bysize, at least in the backwaters

(11:11):
.
Now I wouldn't necessarily saythat's so much true for the
ocean, because there's so muchmore expanse, less condensed
areas for them to be in, but Ido find that in the backwaters
if I'm catching a lot of youknow 18 in New Jersey's the
keeper size.
If I'm catching 15s, I'mprobably, I'm probably off the
spot and I'll just pick up andmove right away.

(11:33):
I don't, I don't tend to pull a24 out next to a 15.

John Skinner (11:37):
It just doesn't happen.
We do.
In fact, two Bay trips ago Ihad just made the comment I
pulled a couple of 10, 12 inches, I mean tiny, and I said, oh my
goodness, and we had just likeslid over to this.
I mean, we're a couple hundredfeet away from where we were,
but we slid over to this spotand it was a little shallower
and I got a couple of 10, 12inches.
I said, oh my goodness, theseare small, but let's keep the

(12:01):
trip going.
And then the next fish was 25and a half inches, you know, and
this is in the bay, six feet ofwater, you know.
So we, we do mix them up, youknow, we.
It's just that if you knowyou're on there for some period
of time and it's all smalls,then I'm thinking about you know
, trying somewhere else.
Yeah.

Rich Natoli (12:18):
Right, Right I.
I see it's easy for me to movebecause I'm you know, I'm only
talking kayak, so moving for meis maybe a 15 second pedal off
to the side of the channel.

John Skinner (12:29):
Right now I fish that same area.
I'm laughing because, yeah, youhave to think about the penalty
to move.
I fish the same area in my theold town, the autopilot, and I
only I don't run that at 10.
I'll run it up to nine and ahalf just to just cause I do.
And uh, you know, it's likethree and a half miles an hour.
But if you're running intocurrent now, now you're down to

(12:50):
two and a half, maybe less.
You know you got to reallythink about what it's going to
cost you to make a real move.
But yeah, you know, I alwaysseem to do well working that
kayak in the bays.
I think it makes me thoroughlywork an area that I know is good
, and by not running all overthe place it always seems to pan

(13:11):
out for me it's yeah.

Rich Natoli (13:13):
I seem to be a better fluke fisherman in a
kayak than when I was in my boat.
I think I just got lazy, and Italk about it on here a lot,
that we tend to get lazy justbecause it's an easier drift, or
you know, we'll just drift thisreal quick but we won't re
drift it.
You know moving over a littlebit, but when you're in a kayak
and it's going to take you ahalf an hour to move, you're

(13:34):
going to hit that area, You'regoing to make sure you get every
little ridge underneath youevery little more thorough.

John Skinner (13:38):
definitely more thorough, yeah.

Rich Natoli (13:39):
Yeah, and, and you, honestly you can, unless you're
really good on that trollingmotor and you have a boat that
performs well.
With it, I can hit the littlepockets a lot easier than a boat
.
Can you know?
I mean, I can get over it and Ican just pedal really lightly.
I can you know I can changeeverything really quick and you
don't necessarily have thatluxury on a boat.

John Skinner (14:00):
Yeah, I like the autopilot kayak the old town
that you know.
That thing is just ridiculous.
For fluke, no-transcript.

(14:30):
You know, hey, a lot of timesthe fluke are near channels.

Rich Natoli (14:34):
In fact they're almost always channels, and you
know, you know, you know how itcan be so I'll tell you what I
do get jealous when I see assoon as you hook into a nice
fish, and I hear the lock.
Yeah, because I can't do thatwith the, with the pedals.
You know, I think I'm doing itand then I realized you have too
much to think about at that.

(14:54):
Yeah, I've drifted 50 yards.

John Skinner (14:55):
Yes, no, that's.
And I do the same thing in myboat.
You know, I've got my 16 and ahalf foot aluminum trolling
motor and, yeah, same exactthing thing as soon as I hook up
beep lock it this way here noneof the drift is lost.
And yeah, that's a wonderfulfeature.

Rich Natoli (15:12):
Yeah Well, I have a spot lock on the horizon
because of that.
I'm just getting so tired ofjust having to go right back up
current and then back up currentand you're having a great day,
but you spend so much timepedaling back to get to that
spot.

John Skinner (15:27):
That's right.
That's what I was telling myfriend the other day.
I said, hey, you know, if I'mgoing into the current at two
and a half miles an hour and I'mdrifting back at one, which is
about what it is, so you figureout, a third of my trip is spent
.
Know, spent going up, goingback up on the drift.

Rich Natoli (15:45):
So yeah, yeah, and for me it's paddling because I
have to paddle it right into thecurrent to keep that speed the
whole time.
Yeah, so yeah, I'm too old forthis, john, way too old.
Do you have a question fromjoseph beam down here in south
jersey?
I've noticed I've caught moreand larger flounder on a
bucktail with a gulp and noteaser.
Do you have any experience withthat or do you just stick with

(16:06):
the what everyone now calls theskinner rig?
I didn't know which is the high, low, oh yeah, the high low
idea they called it that.

John Skinner (16:14):
I don't see a downside in a teaser.
First of all, I don't thinkfluke are very sophisticated
fish.
I I think they're downrightstupid at times.
In fact, I think it was kaithat was telling me today about
having fought a fluke to thesurface and it got off and he
just threw the thing back at himand the fish went and grabbed
it again.
You know I've got them on videowith you know, a hook protector

(16:36):
, underwater video, and there'sa hook protector and the thing
comes out of the fluke's mouthsix, seven times and it's
attached to a camera and thething is hitting it over and
over.
I, just I, I have a hard timebelieving that having that extra
, you know, basically unweightedgulp offering could ever be a
negative.
And I've done it both ways, bythe way, because when we started

(16:59):
you bucktailing it, we weren'tusing a teaser, we were just
bucktail and gulp.
And then, once we went to ateaser, it seemed like there was
no comparison and we never,ever went back Ever yeah.

Rich Natoli (17:14):
I've caught more fish on the teaser than on the
regular bucktail.
I don't know if I'm doing itwrong, I think that's typically.

John Skinner (17:20):
That's fine if it's like 60-40, you know.
But when people tell me and Ihear this often all my fish come
on the teaser, well, in myreaction is something's wrong
with your bucktail and it'sprobably it's too heavy Cause
then it acts like a rock.
It doesn't look good.
You know, you got to make someadjustment.
If you're not catching them onthe buck.

Rich Natoli (17:38):
Right, it's just dragging the bottom or something
like that, which is which isanother thing that when you're
jigging so you have this crazyfast jig right that you're just
constantly up and down on thisI've always wondered are you
hitting the bottom or are youpulling it right off the bottom
and you're trying to get closeto it, hitting the bottom on the

(18:00):
downswing?
Close to the bottom, not?

John Skinner (18:01):
trying to hit the bottom, you're not pounding the
bottom.
I mean, obviously I'm droppingto the bottom to make sure I'm
there, but then and theunderwater video I've got shows
it beautifully that the rig is,you know, maybe you know
anywhere is from six inches to afoot.
Maybe if it's two feet off thebottom, probably I'm gonna feel
for bottom again, but it's inthat range within the first two

(18:22):
feet of bottom and not bouncingon the bottom.
Yeah, okay.

Rich Natoli (18:26):
Yeah, we've had a lot of debates on the water
about that, and the thing waswell, you know, in the videos,
the underwater videos, you'renot trying to catch those fish,
so maybe it's just easier, soyou don't get snag.

John Skinner (18:39):
No, no, no, no no, no, no, I've only.
It's very.
It was very difficult to getunderwater video of a bouncing
gulp rig.
You can't attach the camera tothat, because it's going to jerk
all over the place.
So I had quite a contraptionthat was able to video the gulp
rig and I was fishing.
You know, I was trying to catchfluke.

(18:59):
So yeah, that's where it is therig's up off the bottom, for
sure, yeah.
So yeah, that's where it is therig's, up off the bottom, for
sure, yeah.
The only thing I was the hookprotector was on that when I
would.
You know you can.
You can drag like a strip baitor something to see what the
fluke do with that, but youcan't jig it because you're
going to mess up the video.
And I would have a hookprotector on that because I
don't really want to catch thefish on that Right.

(19:21):
That's where I'd get to see himgrab it and come out of its
mouth and grab it over and overagain.

Rich Natoli (19:27):
Right, well, I'd look at some of those videos.
I think, oh my god, if I wouldjust get into fish that size.
I would just want to catch itthere's a different different
areas that you're, that you'retrolling for those, then then
I'm fishing yeah, well, you knowwhat?

John Skinner (19:41):
it's very, very cool to come home and throw that
card in the computer and goholy smokes.
You know, look at this yeah.

Rich Natoli (19:47):
Yeah, it's amazing how you know when they're
sitting on the bottom.
You don't even see them untilthey pop up behind it, yeah,
sometimes.

John Skinner (19:54):
But you know I also saw on the video.
I mean I've got a lot of videogoing back some time.
You see instances where they'rejust swimming too off the
bottom.
You know they're not allsitting there, but one of my
favorite clips is off of Montauk.
There's these two rocks thatare like a couple feet apart and
it looks like, you know,there's nothing but sand between

(20:15):
them.
And as I go by with the rig,all of a sudden that bottom just
rises up and there was a truedoormat was just between those
two rocks and then comes up onthe on the bait.
You know, it's just so neat tosee that.

Rich Natoli (20:28):
Yeah yeah, you had one underwater video.
Where it was, it seemed like itwas all doormats.
It was amazing to me.
I don't know where they werecoming from, but it cause
usually you see a whole bunch ofwhat looked like maybe 16 to
18s but this looked like therewere like 22 pluses, like, oh

(20:48):
they were, and they were nothose that was I know when.

John Skinner (20:50):
That was so and that was a time I happened to
collect video on the clearestlong island sound water I have
ever fished in.
I mean 17 feet of water.
I could see my rig on thebottom and that is not as
unheard of unheard of.
And that happened to be the day, and that was the day I was
able to then get the bouncingvideo rig I'm sorry, the gulp

(21:12):
rig in the frame, along with thestrip bait at the same time to
watch the flu come in and decidewhich there.
there's no decision thatbouncing gulp rig just like a
magnet.
It had no interest in freshmeat, none.
Every fish went right at that.
You'd have three fluke chasingafter that bouncing rig and they

(21:32):
would swim right by the freshmeat.
That was just unbelievable tosee, unbelievable.

Rich Natoli (21:36):
Now, do you think that the gulp has changed at all
?
Do you think it's becoming lessof a?
Do you think it's the same?

John Skinner (21:42):
Yeah, yeah, I've actually gotten to meet.
Like there's two guys that wereinvolved with that.
One is still with Berkeley andI got to spend some time with
him.
I think it was like last winterand yeah, and I asked him yes,
hey, you know people complain,oh, it got softer.
He goes.
No, he goes.
It's like making cookies.
You make batches of cookies,cookies.

(22:05):
They don't all come out thesame.
He said some, you know, and hesaid gulp is the same way.
Some batches come out a littlesofter, some come out a little
firmer.
He said there's no intention tomess up a good thing.
And you know, yeah, so there'sreally no change.

Rich Natoli (22:17):
yeah, yeah, yeah, because I I I remember that I
had some I think there were sandeel gulp that I was using and
there were.
There were like sticks, theywere so hard and I said, well, I
must've just been old bait orsomething which doesn't make
sense because the juice dried upor something.
Yeah, yeah, but it.
But it sounds right becausethere were other people that

(22:37):
came on the show that said, no,I actually love those.
I was like, well, I'm justgoing to chalk it up to a bad
batch then.
So maybe I will go out and getsand eels.

John Skinner (22:45):
Oh well, yeah, I've got sand eels and yeah,
they're fine, yeah.

Rich Natoli (22:51):
All right.
So here's a question for you.
This is from Don Mace.
I know, don, and how do youknow for certain you're drifting
with the current?
When you're out in the ocean,because that is always a
challenge.
When you get into some of theseareas Because look, some of the
best fluke spots you're goingto have a lot of structure, a

(23:12):
lot of different currents goingdifferent ways.
The wind's not going to behave.
What are you doing to figureout if you're going with the
current?

John Skinner (23:19):
With the current.
Okay so and that's a greatquestion that's a problem that
we run into Montauk and Block.
I call them squirrely currents.
You know they're not.
It's not like Long Island Sound.
You know Long Island Sound ispretty boring.
The water goes one way, it goesthe other way it goes, you know
it goes back and forth.
No interesting part of thatwhatsoever.
But like Montauk, you know, inthe deeper water you've got the

(23:40):
top current moving differentfrom the bottom current and it
could have to do with recentwinds, lots of things, all right
.
So the answer is well, you needa trolling motor.
So what you do is you spot lockand you spot lock and you drop
a rig down.
You know the same kind of rigthat you're using and then you
just look at the angle of theline and you see which way that
that rig is being pulled andthat is the bottom current, that

(24:05):
that rig is being pulled, andthat is the bottom current,
because the trolling motors takecare of the top current for you
and keeping the boat steady.
And you look to see which waythe rig's getting pulled.
That becomes your trollingdirection.
You troll in that direction andoh my goodness, what a
difference that can make like alight switch sometimes, because
otherwise, you know your baitsare going down, you know your

(24:25):
rigs are going down, tide down,current backwards, and or, in
strange ways, you know,sometimes you set the hook but
the you see it, when you get,you snag bottom and instead of
bottom pulling away from you,the bottom is going under the
boat and it's like, how can thiseven be?
I've got a wind in my face, Isnag, and yet the line's going

(24:47):
on.
You know that's because, yeah,you know, you, you've, you've
got to kind of fix that driftwith the trolling motor.
And yeah, you know, when Ifirst used a trolling motor I
thought like here's a device oflast resort when it's wind
against current or something,and then you get used to using
it and you get spoiled becausenow every drift can be perfect,
right, yeah?

Rich Natoli (25:09):
yeah, it's funny.
Even in a kayak I end up withthat sometimes because I don't
have a trolling motor and you'llbe fishing and all of a sudden
you're like how the hell did Iget snagged?
It's literally on the otherside of the kayak.
I was fishing off the right andnow it's on the left, but I
thought it was like 20 yards infront of me and it's behind.
So, I wonder why I'm gettingsnagged and not feeling the

(25:30):
bottom right, and then all of asudden I just pick something up.
That is a good question andthat's something that.
Look, I've never had a boatwith a trolling motor on it, so
I never was able to do that.
And some of the mostfrustrating days on the water is
when you're stuck out there andyou don't know what the hell's
going on underneath you.
You know, you think you're good, and then all of a sudden you
realize no, I just spent thelast half an hour and I'm not

(25:53):
even going the right way and Ishould have had it in gear or
popping it in and out orsomething like that.

John Skinner (25:58):
Yeah, we had a block Island was like two
seasons ago.
We were just not having, wewere just not doing well and we
could tell something wasn'tright.
So we spot locked, wedetermined the direction and we
went and we were surprised athow it was really running.
And so we use the trollingmotor to do it the right way.
And then I got a 10 pounder andI got an eight pounder, I got

(26:20):
10 and eight and a seven on thesame run after we were just
starving and all it took wasusing the trolling motor to go
in the correct direction,because you know those currents
that block, it's a lot likeMontauk.
They can be quite strange,especially in the deeper water.

Rich Natoli (26:38):
Yeah, I mean you've got the deep water and just odd
well block is a littledifferent because you have like
you've got the deep water andjust odd structure.
Well, block is a littledifferent because you've got a
lot of things working in thatarea.
On a macro level, you have theisland, Then you have this crazy
structure underneath and thenyou have all of the Long Island
Sound and everything letting outall that volume of water, so it
kind of swirls.

(26:58):
It's kind of similar to ifyou're a South Jersey guy to
down near the Delaware Bay, kindof similar to if you're a south
jersey guy to down near thedelaware bay.
Only my understanding is it'sit's it's a lot more dramatic up
at block than it is down.
Well, I haven't been down thereso I can't compare, but yeah, no
you were never down, you neverfished off of cape may, new
jersey, for straight bass, yeah,no, no, it's I.

John Skinner (27:22):
I'm not going to travel like that for fish that I
have.
Have you ever driven fromeastern Long Island to New
Jersey?
It's not a good time.
I want to avoid that as much aspossible.
Bridges and tunnels I've gotplenty to do around here without

(27:42):
doing that.

Rich Natoli (27:45):
Back in the day, the rips at Cape May was just
legendary.
Now it's.
It's better up in in what, what?
What am I thinking?
The Bay up North?
It's much better up there, butit used to be the rips down
South and now the the rips youcan catch only a few fish.
It used to be just huge fishgoing through there all the time

(28:07):
.
Boats sank every year.
It was so packed and they werejust getting hit by the rips
wrong.
But talk about crazy currentsdown there, but it's, it's
pretty much the Raritan.
I don't know why I couldn't sayRaritan Bay.
It's been way too long sinceI've been on the Raritan, I
guess is the issue.
So let's let's talk a littlebit about striped bass, because
look you, you wrote the book onthat too, right, I mean, you're

(28:34):
fishing, for some of my favoritevideos of yours actually was
when you were fishing.
I guess you were fishing thesound from shore and you were
just picking off the stripedbass right from shore.
Are you fishing for them at allat this time of year, or are
you just kind of moving on?

John Skinner (28:49):
So a slight look of disgust on my face is that if
you'd asked me that questiontwo years ago, I would have said
no and I would have just beenlying to you intentionally so
that nobody else did it.
Now I'm saying no becausethere's no fish.
And I know there's no fishbecause a friend of mine
continues to work it really hardand and it's it's not happening

(29:11):
.
And I've tried a couple oftimes and it's not happening.
And and we're, like you know,literally texting back and forth
trying to figure out what thehell is going on, because it's,
you know, it's not even what Iconsider background fish.
I mean to me, under normalcircumstances, if you pick some,
some beach on Long Island Soundand you put in some big effort

(29:33):
of casting, you know pencils andand, and then fishing eels and
and you know, if you put it,you're going to get a stray
passing by or something, you'regoing to get something, and by
or something You're going to getsomething, and that's not even
happening.
And then even the good spotsthat we know are good aren't
holding fish right now.

Rich Natoli (29:55):
So yeah, yeah, it's been tough.
I mean, nobody fishes harderthan a land-based striped bass
fisherman in the summer, and Ihave very similar reports from
new england as well.

John Skinner (30:06):
Like like reports.
Really.
The person giving me the reportis well known and said don't
you know, don't disseminate youknow.

Rich Natoli (30:15):
And then gave me numbers of you know his network
about how, how bad it it is andyeah, Do you think that's a
population thing, or do youthink it's just a migration
change or habitat change,migration?

John Skinner (30:30):
And the reason I say that is last year.
Plum Gut, plum Gut's the waterbetween Orient Point and Plum
Island.
If you watch my boat videos,it's a lot of fun for me in the
spring, early summer, loadedwith fish, and the fall is
another time where it's a lot offun for me in the spring, early
summer, loaded with fish, andthe fall is another time where
it's, you know, just a great,great area.
There were no bass in the gutlast fall.
Now that's just really quiteunheard of.

(30:55):
But you know there werebasically no bass in the gut
last fall.
That's a migration issue.

Rich Natoli (31:02):
Yeah, yeah, I mean because they're still there.
I mean you see the pictures,people are still catching the
big ones, but they're notcatching them where they're used
to bingo, you know.
I mean that's like, like I justsaid, the cape may rips are
dead.
It's still fish there, but notlike it used to be, where you
could walk across them for milesand you know south jersey, I
used to be able to fish John inthe back in my boat and just

(31:23):
anchor up in a back channel inthe side banks and just bail
fish so many fish you'd have totake all the rods out of the
water.
You could wait hours, have adrink, have lunch, hang out with
your buddies and then juststart two hours later.
And it's still as soon as ithits the water.
You can't fish two rods, it'sjust bailing them.
Yeah, that doesn't happenanymore, and if it does, people

(31:45):
aren't telling me because Ican't make it happen again.

John Skinner (31:48):
Yeah, I don't.
You know, there's not a lot ofsecrets out there because they
get disseminated pretty quick.
Look, no, there's secrets forsure, but it's a lot harder for
them to be kept nowadays withall the quick communications and
social media and everythingelse.

Rich Natoli (32:05):
So yeah, yeah, yeah .
So if you were fishing forstriped bass, let's say in the
in the fall, is there, is there?
Is there a style that youprefer over any other?
Are you going top water?
Are you out on a boat?
Are you in a kayak?
Are you on the shore?

John Skinner (32:23):
I really want to be on the beach.
I really do.
On the other hand, I do need toget content and Plumgut's a lot
of fun.
So I'll do that, especially inthe spring.
In the fall I really, reallywant to be on the beach, and
normally on the North Fork weget good runs in the fall and
I've fished the North Fork many,many years.
I've fished the North Fork many,many years.
I've got it pretty well down, Ican tell.

(32:45):
I used to tell people at workI'm taking off Wednesday.
I knew when those fish weregoing to be on the beach.
Yeah and boy, last year wasjust terrible.
So then I ended up fishing theSouth Shore, going to where I
used to spend a lot more timebecause we had a sand eel run
going on over there.
So the question about what I'mgoing to be using in the case of

(33:08):
a sand eel run well, I'm notgoing to be using topwater very
much in that situation.
A lot of people throw diamondjigs.
I'm going to be throwing abucktail as much as possible.
There are conditions becausethose sand eel runs.
The fishing is very good undervery rough conditions and it may
be that you need to heave metalto get at them right.

(33:28):
There's a lot of situationswhere it looks like you need
metal but a bucktail is going todo you a lot, a lot better.
But so that's.
You know, that's the onefishery.
I hope that shows up again thisfall because there were a lot
of sand eels in long islandsound this year.
On the north it's bucktails andpencil poppers for me, okay.

Rich Natoli (33:48):
Now, when you throw a bucktail, are you putting?
What type of soft plastic?
Are you going back with thegulp?

John Skinner (33:54):
Never For stripers , never gulp.
Actually not soft plasticeither.
It would be the fat cow jigstrips.
Okay, it used to be pork rind,right, and that went away and
then went to the otter tails andthe FACOW jig strips.
Got really used to being ableto just leave those on the hooks
and put them back in the bagand hey, they catch just as well

(34:15):
as pork rind.
And then pork rind has kind ofcome back, like you can buy it,
and I haven't actually botheredto go back to it.
That stuff's more convenient,it works just as well.

Rich Natoli (34:24):
Yeah, I mean, if you don't need to, right,
absolutely.
Yeah, all right, okay, sobucktails man.
I haven't been on a Sandeel ina long time.
A Sandeel Blitz, those aresomething.
There's something about hookingthem a little deeper that I
really like.

John Skinner (34:44):
You get that really big takeoff on them.
Well, the thing with theSandeel runs I like is that they
they stay around.
I mean, if they usually startin the beginning of October for
us and then they're going to golike to mid November, I mean
you're going to get like sometime.
You know you're going to get atleast a month out of these
Sandeel runs.
Normally.

(35:09):
The problem is they don'thappen very often.
You know, I can think back like2014 or it was a 13 was, I think
it was 2013.
It was a super year.
You know, super sand eel run.
You know this past year wasgood and it had bigger fish than
normal sand eel run.
The other thing is it's notrunning gun fishing.
You know the bunker runs up anddown the beach and people chase
them.
There's no chasing.
They set up on these sand eelsrun structure and you figure out

(35:30):
the structure and, yeah, youdon't have to move all over the
place.
In fact, it doesn't make senseto.
The other thing is it's a24-hour fishery.
The fishing could be.
It's great at night.
It could be great during theday.
One o'clock in the afternooncould be as good as you know,
daybreak.
So that's a cool thing.

Rich Natoli (35:48):
So there's a lot of upsides to having a sand eel
run for sure Now do you do a lotof like overnight fishing, like
I mean like not into the night,but you know, start at nine
o'clock at night or 10 o'clockat night when it's so.

John Skinner (36:01):
Here's the problem fishing, I hate to say it has
become.
Well, I need to get contentright.
I mean the, the content, theyoutube stuff drives everything
else the, the books, the onlinecourses, you know rods and right
, you name it, right, so there'sand and you can only do so much

(36:23):
.
You know you can't.
Oh, the big thing is I can'tget content at night because
it's dark.
I mean, that's really the bigproblem.
It's very hard to get any kindof quality night.
It's almost impossible.
It basically is impossiblebecause first of all, if, even
if you try to, if you try tofish with, with the light, it'll
shut those bass right off, evenin rough surf.

(36:44):
And I I was able to show thatback.
Oh my god, it's like 10 yearsago or so.
It was really cool.
I did it with I think it wasdaughters I'm pretty sure it was
daughters and I I could get abite going and I'm banging them
with daughters banging andbanging them, and I show that.
That.
You know, I've got my littlered light, get the fish in in,
unhook it, and then I say, okay,I'm going to light it up and

(37:04):
fish, and you put that light on,that's it.
And even in rough water, in abar, white water, boom, that
bite is shut right down, done.
And then you shut that lightoff about 20 minutes later, boom
, boom, boom, boom, boom, you'rebanging those fish again.
So you know you, you can't, youcan't.

(37:26):
It's very, very hard to getnight video and this is you know
.
So take a day like today.
I mean, I'm out fluking all day, I, you know what am I gonna do
?
Go fishing tonight and and tryto get video.
I can't use, or you know, justgo fishing I.
So, yeah, I don't do the nightstuff like I used to.
I spent decades fishing nightand you know I would say, you
know, start in the dark, youknow, don't even bother until

(37:47):
it's dark.
Dark I don't mean, you know,just after sunset, I mean hour
and a half, two hours aftersunset, dark dark.

Rich Natoli (37:53):
Yeah, yeah, to me that's the best fishing, john,
I'll tell you this.
So my most hated video I everdid was nighttime striped bass
along docks, and it was justbecause it's too dark.
I'm like, yeah, because it waslike one o'clock in the morning.
I get it, you know, but you canstill seal it no yeah I got.
I got the worst comments on thatever.

(38:15):
It's still on the channelsomewhere but people hated me
for that.
Like I got hate mail for that,I was like, well, I'm sorry I
wasted your time, but the pointof it was to show fishing dock
lights at night for striped bass.
In the fall can really beproductive.
You should have gotten that outof it at least.
But yeah, it's impossible.
I won't even attempt any videosat night anymore because the

(38:37):
lens is way too short.
You just can't capture enoughlight in there.

John Skinner (38:40):
Yeah, it just doesn't work.
Actually, also, you just can'tcapture enough light in there.
Yeah, it just doesn't work.
And and actually also the auto,the stabilization on the camera
, doesn't work in low lightbecause it needs things to, you
know, orient to and right, youdon't have that in low light, so
the shake is just no good.

Rich Natoli (38:56):
Yeah, yeah all right, but if you, if you had so
you stand by today, you wouldstill.
If somebody says I just need toget on some striped bass, you'd
say start fishing at night,fish in the dark, yeah yeah.

John Skinner (39:09):
This is the best time, yeah.

Rich Natoli (39:12):
Now, do you ever have issues where you run into
people you don't want to runinto at the dark?
I think we talked about this onour show last week.
Describe people Drunk peopleassholes, just people that just
are.
They just don't want anyonearound when they're fishing at
night.

John Skinner (39:28):
Yeah, no, that's not an issue for me, although
I've got a book chapter in thevery first book, season on the
Edge, where I describe I wasnight fishing and I lived on a
road that was perpendicular tothe shoreline.
You walk down the end of thestreet, you go down a set of
stairs and you're on Long IslandSound and there's maybe I don't

(39:56):
know 30 homes in theneighborhood or whatever it is,
and there's actually a gate, alocked gate, to get through that
.
And I was down fishing onenight and I encountered this guy
that just scared me.
I mean, he, just he, you know,not that he threatened me,
nothing like that.
It was just, there was justsomething about him, the
freaking guy was scary, and Inever in my life before or after

(40:16):
have I ever left the beach,quit fishing because I was
worried about something.
And I went home and I couldn'tfigure out.
Like how did this guy get downthere?
So when I got home I shut thelights off and I watched to see.
You know, oh my God, he went upthe road.
He must live in theneighborhood.
And so then I asked around, Ifound out what his name was and

(40:38):
about two weeks later I'm eatingbreakfast and I hear Wading
River police have solved afive-year-old homicide with the
arrest of that guy and he hadkilled somebody, decapitated him
in his house and buried him.
He took a jackhammer, tore uphis he was in construction.

(40:59):
He tore up his garage floor andburied him under his garage.
But he made the mistake of.
His girlfriend knew about itand then five years later she
got in trouble and said, hey, oh, I know what it was.
He hit her or something and heor she hit him or some crazy
thing like that.
And she said, hey, guess what?

(41:21):
And she went to the cops.
They dug up the garage and thebody was in there and that that
was the guy.
So pretty good, so I had apretty good read on this guy.
He was a bona fide murderer.
And the funniest thing was, acouple of years later my wife
and I are walking down thestreet and here's this young
couple pushing a baby strollerand didn't recognize him.

(41:42):
And and they recognized me andand and they said, oh, we just
moved into the neighborhood andI'm like, oh, really when?
Oh, up up the street, likethird, third or fourth house in
the ranch, I'm thinking oh.
I said, oh, that's interesting.
I said and he, he told me howmuch he liked the book and I
said, let me ask you somethingHow's your garage floor?

(42:03):
And he said it's very uneven,why do you ask?
And I said well, you know thatthat chapter in the book.
I said that's your house, thatthat body was underneath your
garage floor.
Oh man, when I wrote it in thebook I that was the only thing
in the book that I didn't doexactly truthfully I actually
said that the body was on thenext street, over under a guy's

(42:26):
patio, but no, it was in myneighborhood and it was in the
guy's garage.
And then I met the house.
So yeah, so there's my storyabout-.

Rich Natoli (42:33):
Did they still live ?

John Skinner (42:34):
there Did they move?
I don't know what happened tothem there.
I think we moved out of thatneighborhood not too soon and
not too much after that.
But so there's my story aboutscary people.

Rich Natoli (42:45):
Yeah, you never know where they're going to be
yeah, I, I haven't really runinto anybody that that scared me
.
I've run into a lot of peoplethat were just overly aggressive
about stuff drunk people yeah,no, I don't have any issues.

John Skinner (43:00):
I typically don't see anybody and I don't want to
be.
I mean, when I'm night fishing,when I was especially hardcore
night fishing, you're veryunlikely to see me, even if you
get close.

Rich Natoli (43:13):
All right, so I got to take a lesson from you.
I got to be better about thatkind of stuff.
I seem to be like a magnet topeople when they're leaving the
bars and they grab their fishingrods.
It seems to be they find me.
I need to go to more remoteplaces, yeah.

John Skinner (43:25):
And can keep your light off.
Get a.
You know I always used a like apen light with a red lens and
you know, something dim.
Just keep it, you know, andsparingly use it yeah.

Rich Natoli (43:40):
So before you had mentioned that you had tested
out the light on the water, Iwould have said that that really
didn't make that big of a deal.
But I mean, it doesn't in thebackwaters but because you have
dock lights all over the place.
But I I I always thought thatit was just people going crazy.

John Skinner (43:55):
You know it's like no, you shouldn't get mad
because you shine the light, butand it was great because you
know, I I was, oh, I know was sonormally I wouldn't want to do
that kind of a thing because Idon't want to be Sean, I don't
want to be the guy shining thelight on the water Right.
So there was at the time therewas a break in fire Island, a
little West of Smith point, theit was called the breach.

(44:17):
It was on fire Island nationalseashore and you basically
couldn't get to the West side ofthat, not, you basically
couldn't get there.
So what I would do in themiddle of the night is I'd kayak
over there from Smith PointMarine.
I was like a mile and threequarters going across the bay
and you had to be careful aboutdon't get sucked out, the breach
and all that, right and uh.

(44:37):
But once I got over there Iowned it.
You know, there was nobodythere.
So there was no fear that I wasgoing to screw anybody's
fishing or anything like that,so I could mess around and the
companion light for my GoPro islike super bright.
I mean I call it like Sheastadium.
I know it's a city field now,but you know lights it up like
Shea stadium, and so I was ableto do that test.

(44:58):
And and when that breach, whenthat water was ebbing out of the
breach and the white water wasout there, oh, the fishing was
fantastic and you know.
So I was able to have time withthe fish to you know, hook,
some try the light, damn thebite shut off, turn off the
light.
They come back, try to turn thelight on again, and I actually

(45:19):
have that video on my channelthat you know I go through that
whole thing.

Rich Natoli (45:24):
I'm going to go back and find that that's
interesting.
I honestly thought it was justpeople that you know.
They heard it, so they thoughtit was true, but nobody really
knew if it was just like.
You know, when I was little, Iremember a guy.
I was fishing a bridge for togand I was sitting in a little
rowboat and I was talking to mybuddy who was sitting on the

(45:46):
other, at the other side of it,and this guy just started
yelling at us that we're scaringthe fish.
And I was like.

John Skinner (45:55):
that's not true.

Rich Natoli (45:56):
We can talk, they're not going to hear us.

John Skinner (45:57):
It's not going to matter.

Rich Natoli (45:58):
Yeah, yeah, and I honestly I thought that the
whole thing was just upset.
Surf casters.

John Skinner (46:05):
Well, that was just, you know, the light on my
GoPro, which was a very goodlight, but it doesn't compare to
headlights on a vehicle, whichis where this.
You know where the problemcomes from, that.
You know people sweeping, youknow the the water with with
their lights.
I mean, if you're going to turnyour truck around, turn the
damn thing around with thelights to the dunes, not not to,
not not sweeping them over thewater.

(46:27):
Yeah.

Rich Natoli (46:29):
Yeah, I've never done that.
So I I with all that said, Ididn't believe it, but I also
didn't do it because I I didn'twant to be that guy.

John Skinner (46:41):
You know, plus I, I look, I I kind of knew that it
was a thing anyway from fishingLong Island sound, in an area
where four wheel drives wereallowed and you'd be on a bite
and then truck would come downto beach the lights.
Now your bite shuts down for 20minutes and it comes back again
.

Rich Natoli (46:53):
Yeah.
So that's no good.
That's no good.
Here's a question.
This is a really good question.
I don't know if you can answerthis or not, but South Jersey
yak fishing, cinder worms in thewater and the cinder worms
spawn for striped bass.
I have gone on record by sayingit is the toughest striper bite

(47:13):
for me.
By saying it is the tougheststriper bite for me, I've never,
ever have luck with cinderworms, unless I have a cinderworm fly
, and then still I have almostzero luck with it.
Have you ever fished it andhave you figured out how to do
it?
Or am I just oh yeah, all right.

John Skinner (47:28):
So I don't have experience in backwaters, but I
have the experience on LongIsland Sound beaches, because
there's actually actually, uh,cinderworm hatches on the
beaches themselves, especiallyup around high, high slack water
.
So think about this when youhave cinderworms there are in

(47:49):
the sound you know you've gotthese worms out there.
There are nocturnal fish, suchas eels and things that feed on
on those worms and and those arethings that stripers feed on.
So I'll tell you what my mybest approach to fishing cinder
worms was to throw live eels,because there were already and I

(48:11):
know we had eels from diving.
I mean, I would see eels diving, so I know they're there.
So, yeah, I would fish, I wouldlive eel, cinder worm hatches
and do really well.
What would happen is when thecurrent got going, they would
kind of wipe out.
But when the current was slowaround high slack, that was the

(48:35):
period where you'd see them andthere would be fish popping and,
yeah, you throw plugs andteasers and nothing but throw a
live eel out there and I canonly surmise that the
cinderworms were attracting theeels that were already there to
come out of their holes and thestripers were smart to that.

Rich Natoli (48:56):
Yeah, okay so that right there, john is gold.
I am so happy that thatquestion was asked because I
I've never been able to figurethat out.
You know, 50 years of fishingcinder worms because we had the
cinder worm hatches right nextto the house and I've never,
ever figured it out.
I never thought to do that.

John Skinner (49:16):
It was probably by accident.

Rich Natoli (49:18):
That's often how we learn right you get fed up and
you try something different.
For me, unfortunately, I nevertried live eels, or even an eel
plastic.
Maybe would work too.
I've never tried that, man.
Well, thank you South JerseyYak Fishing for that, because
that I just learned somethingright there.
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna writethat down.

(49:38):
All right, let me see, let mescan through for pictures.
See, here's one again.
Joseph beam needlefish for sandeel bite.
Do you use needlefish patternsor anything for sand eel bite?

John Skinner (49:55):
needlefish plugs.
Yeah.
So I really like the superstrikes because they make how's
it go now, three differentlengths and seven different
weights.
I want to say that's maybe it'ssix different weights, it's
something like that.
But you can really tune them inlike you kind of buck.
You know, you know you, whenyou go through bucktails you're

(50:15):
using a three core, you use aone.
You know you do fineadjustments with the bucktail
weight and with the super strikeneedles you can do the same
thing, because you could go allthe way to that red eyed seven
inch thing that weighs I thinkit weighs three ounces or you
can be down at that.
I think it's a six inch.

(50:36):
You know, that's the black, theregular black eyed one that I
don't know what that weighs,maybe an ounce.
So there's a pretty good weightrange there.
That's a super night plug, but Iwouldn't.
It's not, that is not a lure.
I'm going to be throwing instill water, probably not even
backwater, unless there's a lotof current, but on the ocean,
beaches where you've got some,some white water around the bars
, that's a great, great lure,and and it casts so well.

(51:01):
You know, if you've got anor'easter, you've got, you know
, big winds.
Yeah, that's just a, you know,a really good lure.

Rich Natoli (51:19):
And I always think of it as a night lure.
Daytime, or, let's say, earlymorning, bites on on that lure
as well.
Yeah, yeah, now are youchanging your approach, for so
summer versus fall are usingdifferent sizes, or anything
like that, or is it?
Well, I'm not on the open beachin the middle of summer.

John Skinner (51:28):
You know if I'm gonna, if I'm gonna fish bass in
the summer, just looking forthat know period around dusk and
dawn, I'm going to throwpencils.
I'm not throwing a needle fishat that time, but in the fall,
when there's sand eels around,it's a great, great lure yeah.

Rich Natoli (51:45):
Yeah, I've gone through quite a few of those.
You know what, though?
They're also really good.
When you had the blues mixingin, oh, had the blues mixing in,
oh, there you go, yeah, yeah,you don't end up.
They're pretty hardy, prettyhardy lures.

John Skinner (51:58):
Yeah, I'm a huge fan of plastic.
I'm sorry about that to thewood guys, but I really like
plastic.
It's very consistent.
They're all the same.
They stand up to the bluefish.
They don't waterlog, they don'tget all chewed, they just go on
.
Hooks don't chew the bellies.
You go on and on and on.
The plastic just holds up.

(52:19):
Yeah.

Rich Natoli (52:20):
All right, so we're coming up on the hour.
I just want to get a couplemore in here first.
First of all, billy Ackermansays they just made it home safe
, so they listed the whole wayhome.

John Skinner (52:30):
They're lamenting the trip.

Rich Natoli (52:33):
Well, they had a great time anyway, tough.
They're home and they'relamenting the trip.
Well, they had a great timeanyway, tough day.
But hey, it's always worth it,especially, you know, as Billy
was saying, getting out therewith his son.

John Skinner (52:42):
Yeah, he seems like a real good kid.
We had good conversations.
He's got good plans.

Rich Natoli (52:47):
He's going to be watching all your Florida
content because he's going to befishing while at school.
Here's a good one.
Let's go back to fluke.
What's your favorite setup forocean fluke as far as the
conditions, like time, let's say.
I like to put it to people thisway when it's this type of
question, in the perfect world,if you had to fish one one day

(53:08):
of the year without knowinganything else, and you could
pick all the conditions the wind, the tide, the moon, the month,
the week, whatever what wouldyou do if I said you have to go
out and catch your biggest fluke?

John Skinner (53:20):
Oh okay, biggest fluke, that makes it easier,
biggest, all right.
So then I want to be out on theocean, I guess, and so let's
call it Montauk wind, tide, moon.
So here's the thing those bitescan happen on any tide.

(53:40):
It really gets to be gettingthose wind conditions right.
All right, give me a sunny day,give me a light.
Southwest wind, august Moon,moon, august Moon.
I don't care as much.

Rich Natoli (54:01):
Maybe I should, but I don't Now.
Do you not care more?
Because of the salooner type ofthing, or because the tide
strength you don't think reallymatters that much when you're
fishing the ocean?

John Skinner (54:14):
It matters.
But I can't say which which isbetter, because you know if you
have really strong currents thatcan make it a little tough.
But you know, in fluke fishingout in the ocean a lot of times
you know a 0.5, 0.7 mile an hourdrift is just fine, you know
you don't want to be going alongat, you know 1.4, 1.5 or higher

(54:37):
.
So, yeah, let's leave the moonout of it.
But August, southwest wind,bright, sunny day, jeez, we
catch them on both tides.
When, when the fishing is good,I think I have a preference for
for incoming, cause I'mthinking about places of montauk

(54:58):
where the, where the, the waterdirection on a, on a light
southwest, you're kind of liningup current and wind.
So it's a nice, a nicecondition, yeah.

Rich Natoli (55:08):
So okay, that's.
That's a good answer and I lovethat you said august yeah the
month that's always overlookedfor good fluke fishing.

John Skinner (55:16):
Well, it's the ocean now, although we do well
in the bay in August as well,because you've got the peanuts
are getting bigger, the snappersare there.
You've got some high qualitybaits in August in the
backwaters.

Rich Natoli (55:28):
Yeah, one of my favorite things about the
backwaters in August is I cannow drop the Sabiki rig from the
kayak and I can pull up a spotand I can just stick that on a
circle hook and just drop thatdown.
So I can actually you know, Imean fish a large spot and uh,
or I guess you could.
I've seen people use bluefishtoo.
I like using spot and just dropthat on the hook and you can

(55:50):
get some huge ones and it'sfunny how small of a fluke you
can get on a large bait likethat too.
It's amazing to me how bigtheir mouths get and how they
can eat those huge fish whenthey're only 17 inches and
they're eating these things thatare half their size.
Interesting, yeah, all right.
One more question what's yourfavorite time of year and

(56:13):
species if you're fishingshinnecock?

John Skinner (56:19):
well, it wouldn't be shinnecock specifically, but
west hampton beaches in octoberexactly, for you know the
striper run, especially ifthere's a sand eel run.
But yeah, that that's when you,when you've got good surf
fishing in those areas.
It would be a little west, justslightly west of Shinnecock.

Rich Natoli (56:42):
Close enough, right Close enough.
If they're fishing Shinnecock,they can make that move.

John Skinner (56:50):
Last half of October.

Rich Natoli (56:54):
When does the run really start there and really
get going?

John Skinner (56:57):
Early, early October.
You know it depends on theweather.
You know if you get a moreEaster you get.
You know you get some stormsthat the weather's definitely
going to dictate it.
I got to tell you years ago,when there were good mullet runs
and I don't mean just havingmullet but I mean having striped
bass on mullet having stripedbass on mullet, if you got a

(57:17):
good hard northeast blow anytime after September 15th, ooh,
that could set up some goodfishing.

Rich Natoli (57:22):
Yeah, yeah.

John Skinner (57:24):
I just don't see that much anymore.

Rich Natoli (57:26):
No, but it does go longer, though.
The season does go longer asfar as I'm concerned.
The fall run, remember theyused used to start.
New Jersey was always, you know, the end of September, and then
it became the week beforeHalloween, then became Halloween
, and then became two weeksafter Halloween and now you're
fishing up in the backwaters.
You're fishing for them all theway up until they close it on

(57:48):
December 31st.
You know, and you're stillcatching.
You know, there there are guys.
There are guys that they waitall year for it and they fish so
much that these guys nevershould I mean, that's all that
they're focused on and they getexhausted and they're like but
we still have two weeks left andI keep going, I can't believe I
have to keep going, I'm notgoing again.

(58:09):
And then they're going againthat night at 2 am, because they
heard the the bite 20 miles upthe beach and now they they're
heading up there.
Yeah well, it's a long winterwhen you're up here.

John Skinner (58:19):
your winter in South Jersey is certainly
shorter than here, but I cantell you our winter is a solid
five months up here.

Rich Natoli (58:29):
And you're going to be down fishing for the tarpon
again and everything.

John Skinner (58:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely
absolutely I'm looking forwardto looking at those.

Rich Natoli (58:37):
So I'm like everybody else up here, you, you
got to find the people that youcan follow that are also going
to be fishing when we're not.
You know, when I'm just sittingin there, you know, putting new
braid on every reel justbecause I have nothing else to
do, and then I can watchsomebody.
I mean, some of your Tarponvideos were amazing when you
first got that autopilot.
There was one video that Irecall that you I mean you were

(59:02):
just slamming them and it seemedlike you might have been a
little surprised at just howwell you were doing.

John Skinner (59:09):
Well, I can tell you every single Tarpon hit is a
surprise yeah every single one.
I mean because it's so I I throwone lure, it's the five inch
zoom fluke, five and a half inch, whatever it is.
Eighth ounce swim bait hook,kamikatsu, 4-0, and just you

(59:31):
know, an er motion and they're avery hard fish to get to hit.
Yeah, and if I'm in thepresence of them, where I see
some rising, I really have it.
I really have full confidencethat I put in some time I'm
going to get one of those thingsto hit.
But when the hit does come,there's never I'm never

(59:53):
anticipating the hit, it's justyou're, you're working at it,
you're working out, I'mdetermined.
I know if I put my time in I'mgonna hook one of those damn
things, right, and but when ithappens, it's just just mayhem
because within seconds thatthing is in the air.
I mean, when you've got a sixfoot fish, and that's not an
exaggeration.
Some of them are that big,jumping four or five feet up in

(01:00:14):
the air, and that's not anexaggeration.
Some of them are that big,jumping four or five feet up in
the air, and that's not anexaggeration either.
They do that and you're in,you're sitting in your kayak and
five seconds ago you know you'dbeen out for three hours.
At that point you haven't had atouch.
The next thing you know, you'vegot that thing in the air.
I mean that's oh, it's nothinglike it, yeah, it's great, it's

(01:00:35):
mayhem.

Rich Natoli (01:00:35):
Yeah, those are some of my favorite videos of
yours.

John Skinner (01:00:42):
And you can tell.
That's where you'll see me getthe most excited.
You can see I'm getting excitednow, right, yeah, that's when I
get the most excited is.

Rich Natoli (01:00:49):
I'm looking forward to those.
Yeah, I'm looking forward tothose.
You know that's a species I'venever been able to target.
It's one that I definitely wantto target.
You know that bonefish and youknow some of these Florida
things, but I, I just I justthink it's awesome.
Every time I watch a goodtarpon video, I'm amazed.
I'm amazed, you know.
Bow to the King.

(01:01:09):
Oh yeah, you better, becausethose things go crazy when
they're when they're out of thatwater.

John Skinner (01:01:14):
Yeah, so actually I don't bow.
By the way, I noticed you don't.

Rich Natoli (01:01:17):
I don't.

John Skinner (01:01:19):
And I survived.
I don't know how many fish.
That was probably over six orseven fish.
Anyway, I survived over 40jumps in a row, when you
consider one after another.
I mean, I lose them other ways.
Maybe the hook pulled, or theybroke me off on a bridge, or God
knows they broke me off on abridge, or God knows, you know,
they broke the leader.
There's a good, you know goodway to lose them.
But as far as the actual jumpsand throwing the hook, I

(01:01:41):
survived over 40 jumps in a rowacross several trips and and I
don't bow, I'm not going to bow,no, I mean not because that
those, those percentages arevery good, very good, and a lot
of it comes down to the factthat I'm using a swimbait hook
and not a jig head, because ajig head, all that weight is

(01:02:01):
forward.
They get that when they go upin the air, they get that
leverage and they shake thatthing.
That's when they can throw it.
But with a swimbait hook, youknow, then the weight is
distributed more evenly and theydon't throw a swim bait hook as
easily as they do a jig head.

Rich Natoli (01:02:16):
Oh, that's interesting.
Never thought about that.
I thought about the leveragewith a lot of other situations,
but I haven't thought about itfor that.
Yeah, I love that.

John Skinner (01:02:25):
It's a very light payload.
I mean, if you consider the,the, the jerk shad and the swim
bait hook, probably in totalsone quarter of an ounce, yeah,
which is why I'm throwing fairlylight tackle.
You know the people down there,they're all these bait guys and
you know fish heavy gear withchunks of mullet.
I'm not a chunker, you know, Idon't bait fish and I'm not

(01:02:47):
going to.
You can't throw a quarter ouncepayload on a heavy outfit with
50 pound test line.
No.
I have gotten it to the pointwhere, all right, I can fish 30
and I can fish a 50 liter, butI've caught quite a few of them
on 20 with a 40 liter.
But I tried to beef it up alittle this year and go 30 pound

(01:03:09):
, mainline 50 liter, but yeahthere, that's like a good
balance.
I mean 30, yeah, 30,.

Rich Natoli (01:03:13):
You're still going to be able to get it out there.

John Skinner (01:03:16):
Yeah, you, you will.
But again on that, on thatlight lure, are you killing the
action with the 50, you know,with the 50 liter, you know.
I think the answer yeah, itmight be a little bit.
I've hooked.
I hooked enough of them thispast season with that setup to
think that I'm probably probablyokay.
I got to tell you my landingpercentage, though with the 20

(01:03:37):
and the 40 is better than withthe 30 and the 50.
For whatever reason, they seemto have gone through that 50,
you know, chafed through the 50.
Probably, I don't know, maybebecause it's more, I don't know
more tension on it.
I don't know.

Rich Natoli (01:03:49):
Are you using mono?

John Skinner (01:03:50):
or fluoro.
Fluoro Seag cigar blue.
Or cigar inshore actually.

Rich Natoli (01:03:55):
Try the mono Apparently.
It actually is better atincreasing resistance.

John Skinner (01:04:00):
I don't believe that I don't buy it.
I know exactly what you'retalking about.
I don't buy it Too many decadeson those jetties with big
striped bass and I use bothbecause I really like tri-lean
big game for uh, for leadermaterial for striped bass and
green actually like if I'mcasting striped bass in long

(01:04:22):
island sound, the green is thatthat green tri-lean next uh big
game is very good, but on therocks, in the jetty rocks, I
found that the fluoro really dida lot better of holding up to,
you know, dealing with fish inthe rocks.
So yeah, nobody's going toshake me from from that belief,

(01:04:42):
um, yeah well, I mean, you havethe experience, you know it
works for you yeah, no, yeah, Imean there's no reason to change
if it's working right, unlessyou're unhappy with your current
results.

Rich Natoli (01:04:53):
And if you are, I just want to be you for a day,
because I would be ecstatic withthem.
So yeah, John, thank you forcoming on.
I really appreciate it.
As I had mentioned, you are byfar the most requested guest and
it was great to sit down andtalk to you and just hear a
little bit about it and hearabout the neighbor that murdered

(01:05:13):
someone.
Oh man, hopefully they disclosedthat when they sold that house,
but I guess they didn't.
Those people were prettysurprised I think you're
supposed to disclose I think youthat's right.

John Skinner (01:05:27):
You're a real estate guy.

Rich Natoli (01:05:28):
You would know about that yeah, I think that
qualifies as something that youhave to disclose.
But yeah, uneven garage, allright.
Well, at least your spideysense has kicked in and you got
off that beach that day.
Thank you again for coming on.
I appreciate it.
Everybody in the chat thanksfor tuning in.
Everyone that's joining afteron the podcast, I appreciate it.

(01:05:50):
Remember, if you found this atall entertaining, any good
information that you got.
It would be great if you justkind of leave a thumbs up, a
like, a follow on the podcast.
It really helps us to reachmore people and, honestly, a lot
of now.
John didn't do this, but a lotof guests say well, how many
people watch and listen, becauseif it's not enough, I'm not

(01:06:11):
coming on.
I won't mention names of peoplethat have done that, but it's
actually some of the smallerguys do that, but it does help
us to get more guests on.
So do that if you could, anddespite the heat, everybody, I'm
going to be getting out on thewater this week, so hopefully
you do too.
So until next week, until thenext episode, get out there, get
on the waters and get sometight lines.