September 4, 2025 • 54 mins
We dive deep into the art and science of fishing rod selection with returning guest John Creeley, former co-host and current rod builder for Advanced Fishing USA. This episode unpacks everything from rod action to material composition to help you make better equipment choices for your target species.
• Every rod has a specific purpose - no single rod is perfect for all applications
• Rod actions (extra-fast to slow) significantly impact hook-setting ability and sensitivity
• For sheepshead and tog, moderate action rods provide the perfect blend of feel and forgiveness
• Weakfish and species with paper mouths benefit from slower action to prevent hook tears
• Fast action rods excel for topwater applications and accurate casting for striped bass
• Spinning gear offers better hookup ratios for jigging tog and sheepshead compared to conventional
• Spiral (acid) wrapping reduces fatigue during vertical fishing and improves bite detection
• Cork grips provide better feel but foam offers comfort for extended fights with large fish
• Custom rods allow for personalization of grip size, guide placement, and action for your specific needs
• Rod demo days provide the best opportunity to test different models before purchasing
Advanced Fishing USA is hosting a rod demo event in Seaside Park on Sunday, the 28th from 10 to 2. Visit to cast Century, JS, and Striker rods with free parking and admission near Stewart's Root Beer in Seaside Heights.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Creely (00:00):
It's meant for you grip size, placement, all that.
It really, truly it's how youwant that rod to be at the end
of the day, and you're not goingto get that on the shelf.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (00:16):
Hello and welcome back to the Fat Dad
Fishing Show.
I'm your host, rich Natoli, andtonight we're going to do it's
going to feel kind of like athrowback.
So we have former co-host JohnCreeley coming back on the mayor
and we're going to be talkingabout how to choose a fishing
rod.
It's going to be a little bitof an abbreviated holiday
(00:36):
edition with this Labor Dayholiday and I'm going to
apologize up front.
Right now we have a new dog inthe house and, uh, some moron
thinks that this is a firework,uh type of uh holiday for some
reason.
So, yeah, she's panicking,she's shaking, she just bailed
out of my office just now, sowe'll see if my wife can handle
(01:00):
her.
Uh, but yes, everyone, thanksfor coming in.
If this is your first time here, thanks for checking out the
show.
Look, if you enjoy it, hit afollow, hit a like, put a review
on any of the podcastapplications.
If you're listening to it, ifyou're watching it on the live
stream, youtube, just a likewould be appreciated and, of
course, let people know aboutthis.
(01:20):
We're trying to get a wholebunch of different variety going
on this show as we move forwardand we're going to do one of
the, I guess, more traditionalstyle, which is the how-to or
informational type of broadcasttonight.
That's why John's coming backon.
So before we hit that, beforewe get into that content, I want
(01:43):
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(04:15):
I mean somebody might, but Ihave you on mute.
Yeah, so that's it.
So listen, we're going to jumpright into this.
We're going to bring John onthe screen and I'm going to tell
you a little bit about why youmight want to listen to John.
Hey, john, good to see you back.
What's up, buddy?
John Creely (04:30):
It's good to be here, it's good to be back.
It's definitely been a longtime and long overdue, as you
said.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (04:36):
Yeah , and a lot has changed.
A lot has happened over thepast couple of years, but back
doing the normal show, the waythat I was, and and look.
One thing that's different iswhen, when you were on as a
co-host, you had Creeley customrods.
You're building rods foryourself, but now you are one of
the rod builders for advancedfishing USA.
(04:58):
So why don't you tell us alittle bit about that, what your
kind of specialty is or thetypes of rods you like to make
there?
John Creely (05:04):
so it was roughly.
After I came off the show withyou, our friend dean, who was
one of the builders for advance,was leaving the shop and moving
south, called mike up and I wasactually just looking for a
couple blanks for myself.
He seemed kind of shooken up.
I was like all right, well,call me back later on.
It's like listen, dean'sleaving, you think you can help
(05:27):
me out with a couple builds?
Sure, and it just turned intothat.
So it became too much for me tokeep doing rods under my own
name.
Steer away from some of thedecorative stuff and get to
build some of the best rods inthe world, at least in my
opinion and others.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (05:42):
Yeah , I am.
I am the utility fishermen,right, I love the decorative
wraps, but that's not what I'mlooking for, and I'll tell you
what.
They still look really nicewhen you're you're cranking
those out for advanced.
I've I've seen the videos ofthem.
I've seen the pictures, andevery once in a while, you throw
a personal build in there andthat's where you really go crazy
(06:04):
.
John Creely (06:05):
Yeah, you have to when it's your personal build.
You have other people lookingat your stuff when they find out
your builder, so you try toshowcase a little bit more.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (06:13):
Yeah , so for people that aren't
aware, so John's made me a fewof my rods, actually my two
primary fluke rods he built.
One's a slow pitch and one'sone that we put together.
We did the cheapest rodpossible and the thing I love
the thing.
It's heavy but I still love it.
It works really well.
I've caught thousands offlounder on that at this point.
But John and I always had thisthing where he wanted to
(06:36):
decorate my rods.
I'm like, can you just make itblack?
He's like, no, no, just trustme, trust me.
And then it comes back with allthese colors.
I'm like, I appreciate it.
I definitely appreciate it, butit's, it is.
I'm the utility guy.
John is the one who wears the,the brands and everything,
almost like designer, whereyou're out there with the van
(06:58):
stalls, you're out there withthe beautiful wraps.
I just want a black rod.
John Creely (07:04):
And it's funny because that is like 80% of the
builds anymore that I do.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (07:09):
Yes , yes.
Well, it's a whole differentmarket.
You know, the custom market isa lot different, you know.
I mean custom is where peopleare putting in.
You know they're, they'regetting oh, I shouldn't say this
because a century blank, whichis one of the most popular that
you're going to be wrapping, isa premium blank.
But when you get into the purecustom, they're like yeah, I'll
(07:29):
throw an extra a hundred or 200to get it to look exactly the
way that I want.
John Creely (07:33):
Yeah, and they will .
You know, and that's the beautyof a custom rod and a lot of it
is it's tailored to you and alot of people don't understand
that.
It's meant for you grip size,placement, all that.
It really, truly it's how youwant that rod to be at the end
of the day, and you're not goingto get that on the shelf.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (07:53):
No , you're not, and that's where I
had this longstanding thing.
And we're going to talk aboutugly sticks today, because I'm
going to bring that up, becauseI have this personal battle
against ugly sticks, and it'snot that they're not good, it's
just they're not good for whatpeople think they're good for.
You know, or they put the theirbiggest selling point as the
(08:15):
most important part of a fishingrod, which is the fact that you
can't break it.
Well, you can break it, but youknow, for the most part, it's
really tough to break an uglystick and to me that's one of
the least important parts of afishing rod.
And I will say right now that,for the most part, as long as
(08:35):
you have a quality blank, aquality rod, if you break a rod,
I'm going to say easily, ninetimes out of 10, 90, 90 plus
times out of a hundred, it wasyour fault.
John Creely (08:49):
A hundred percent.
It was your fault.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (08:50):
Yeah , but the ugly stick.
It's more forgiving and okay Ifyou just don't want to break a
rod, I guess.
But I don't think you can catchas many fish with with that
type of rod.
In a lot of differentapplications Some they're
perfect.
You know it is a perfectapplication, but we'll talk
about those when we get to thegraphics and we start talking
(09:10):
about the power and all thatstuff on the rods.
So let's start off this way.
So, john, what is the mostimportant thing that you think
people should consider firstwhen they're going out to get a
fishing rod and let's, let'slook, we'll talk for seven weeks
if we don't narrow it down.
(09:32):
Let's go saltwater and let'stalk.
Let's start with, let's startwith your, your favorite species
.
Sheep said what, what are, whatare?
What's the number oneconsideration that you think
people should have before theystart shopping?
John Creely (09:45):
You have to find something that's leaning towards
that slower tip.
You're looking for thatparabolic bend in a rod.
Yeah, you lose a little bit ofsensitivity in that run there,
but at the same point in time,with it being a thinner diameter
blank, you should be able tofeel a bite.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (10:08):
It's more forgiving on a hook set.
Okay, so you're going basicallyslower action on them.
John Creely (10:12):
Yeah, now the rod that I've personally been
fishing and that's one of thecompanies we're dealing with now
in advance is JS Company.
They're one of Black Hole'scompetitors.
Killsong works with them nowand he's done a phenomenal job
with bringing those blanks intothe States.
He pretty much has set out tomade a true moderate rod.
(10:41):
The inshore supreme ultra lightis what I've been fishing for
sheep's head, that is a mixtureof carbon and then an S2 glass
tip.
So you do get that little bitof a parabolic tendency, but
again, you lose a little bit inthat sensitivity too.
I do feel the bite betterbecause the rod is rated 8 to 15
pound test on braid.
(11:03):
So you have to think thatdiameter of the butt is pretty
small at that point too, right?
So the way to describe it isit's a trout rod, essentially in
the saltwater game.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (11:18):
Well , that to me sounds like a hell
of a lot of fun.
Yeah, instead of those tankrods, you know.
John Creely (11:25):
And that has a lot to do with it.
It's you have to figure outwhat rod you're using for what
species.
Every rod has a job.
This one's going to throw topwater.
This one's better for bouncingjigs on the bottom.
This one's better for throwingpieces of metal.
There's a rod in every.
There's a rod in every.
There's a rod for everyapplication.
You can try and narrow it downand find the best combination
(11:49):
for a rod, but it's not.
You'll find something, but it'snot going to do one job Perfect
.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (11:55):
Right , you know it's interesting.
Do you remember way back whenChris Balaban was on and we were
talking about this and he madethe comment and sticks with me
today?
He's like with me today.
He's like you have to know,like you're gonna buy this
combination of rod and reel andyou're not gonna use it except
for this one specific time ofyear.
And you know he's talking likeyou'll use it one week and
(12:17):
that's it, and then just stow itaway because it has no other
application and it it's verytrue.
Now I, I tend to use one rod fora lot of things, but I use it
in park, imperfectly for each.
You know what I mean.
So it's you know I'll, I'll usemy fluke rods for TOG, which is
(12:38):
that that's probably thedumbest thing that I do, but I,
I still do it.
And and you lose a lot becauseit's a different hook set,
sheep's Head and Tog.
I think they're a lot closer,but the way that you present to
them is a lot different.
You're using a lot differenttackle, terminal tackle.
But I want to put this up thereand show people let's walk
(12:59):
through your Sheep's Head andlet's take a look at this
graphic.
You want to just kind of walkpeople through what this means
on the screen right now and forpeople that are listening to the
podcast, this is just a simplegraphic that's showing the
different powers of rods.
So you have the extra fast,fast, moderate, medium and slow
rods, and it's showing the bendof them.
(13:20):
So, john, you want to just kindof walk people through this so
they understand exactly whatthis is showing.
John Creely (13:26):
So yeah, when you're looking at the bottom,
we're describing the actions ofthe rods and when you hear
someone say, oh, I have amoderate or moderate fast rod,
the picture depicts on howthat's going to bend.
Going through this graph likewe were talking about is the
slow pitch rods you have atendency to lose that
(13:46):
sensitivity as you go up thegraph.
You gain more sensitivity, butwith the slow pitch rod you're
not going to be casting, likeyou would, an extra fast rod,
and that's what it was designedfor.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (13:58):
Right .
Yeah, I think one of the mostimportant things for people to
think about.
So it seems kind ofcounterintuitive when you say
that when you have the fasterrod it's more sensitive.
But what you're seeing in herein this graphic you can see that
the slow pitch is it's bentalmost in half.
(14:18):
Well, it is bent in half.
So this is showing the loadedrod and what it looks like and
where the bend is half.
So this is showing the loadedrod and what it looks like and
where the bend is.
So what you're seeing on theslow is it's bent in half and
this is where it's into thebackbone of the rod.
So that's where the power ofthis rod has transferred fully
into that lure or the hookthat's in the mouth of the fish.
(14:39):
If you go all the way to theright, there's the extra fast.
It doesn't bend as much.
So that's where you see people.
They assume you don't have abig fish on because there's not
a lot of bend in the rod.
But that rod all the way on theright, with that slate bend, is
fully loaded.
It's fully into the backbone.
So it's closer to the tip.
So John dropped off, he'll beback.
(15:03):
But as as you get a bite or astrike, you set the hook.
Think about the distance thatthe rod has to travel in order
for it to hit the backbone.
So extra fast when you go toset that hook.
It's an extra fast hook setbecause the rod only has to bend
that far before you transferthe power from the backbone of
(15:24):
the rod into the hook, whichmeans it's going to be more
sensitive.
You're going to feel it quickerin the backbone, whereas the
slow pitch all the way on theleft.
It's going to have to bendsignificantly before you're
going to have any of that powertransfer.
And you really don't feel muchon the tip of a slow pitch when
it's, you know, when it's justkind of bouncing on the bottom
(15:45):
or anything it's, it's notnearly as sensitive and it's
very slow.
It just means you have a verylong sweep to set that hook.
As compared to that extra fastor fast.
Anything that I missed on that,john, no that pretty much nails
it.
Okay, so.
So let's go back to the sheafshead.
So you're talking about whatrod you're using for sheep said.
Where is it sitting in this, inthis graph?
John Creely (16:07):
here they consider that a moderate rod.
Okay.
However, I mean I don't know ifyou see me fishing that rod
when we were out not too longago.
When that rod has been over, Imean it looks like a slow pitch.
It's realistically, it's notrated for what we're doing yeah,
(16:28):
so, and part of that is the.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (16:31):
The point of that is that it's not
rated for that size fish.
It's not supposed to be forthat size fish.
So the fish is pulling it wellbeyond and it's deep in the
backbone at that point.
Yeah, correct, yeah, so youknow that'll happen.
You know you put four pounds oflead on an extra fast, it's
gonna bend to bend.
It's going to bend further.
It'll also break before it goestoo far.
(16:55):
In many cases not all Some won'tbreak for quite a big bend, but
you have to look at that.
So what you have right up hereis the ugly stick is on the left
, ugly stick is on the left,yeah, which means to set that
hook, you have to do thosemonster freshwater bass hook
(17:16):
sets in order to get that powerinto the lip.
So hopefully this is makingsense to people and you start to
think about how you presentyour baits, what your fishing
tactics are and what type of rodyou're using.
Because right now, john, mostpeople just buy fast and they
just think that that's the bestthing.
So are there specificapplications that you would say
(17:37):
you would want to use an extrafast or a fast versus a?
John Creely (17:40):
moderate.
I mean in a fast application.
I would be looking more into asurf rod because you're looking
for that distance to get thatplug out.
You know past the bar mymoderate.
And you know past the bar mymoderate.
And you know your medium rods.
I'm looking more at my bottomfishing at that point off a boat
or kayak doesn't matter.
That's where I'm going to usethose because I want that little
(18:03):
bit of forgiveness in that hookset.
If you know, hey, we are outthere fluking and you know it.
Those fish, if they're biting,they come back four or five
times.
I mean you should have you knowit.
Those fish, if they're biting,they come back four or five
times.
I mean you should have you know, set the hook by the fourth
time at least.
But uh, you know that moderaterod, you know that's going to
help.
You know, hey, I got that extralittle bit of forgiveness on
(18:24):
the swing and I'm going to beable to, you know, set, send
that hook home.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (18:28):
Yeah , I'll tell you, for fluke, my
favorite rod now is a slow pitch.
That you made me Okay.
I switched over to using thatas my primary, so I have that.
You know I naturally have.
People have seen my videos, ormany people have seen my videos.
I tend to set the hell out ofthe hook anyway on a fluke, but
I have to now with that slow,that slow pitch, because it's
(18:51):
not getting any power until Ireally get it all the way back
into that backbone.
But I really like the moderate.
But what are you using fortopwater?
John Creely (18:59):
For topwater.
The one rod that I do like themost is the Century Weapon.
Especially if you're pitchingsmaller spooks and stuff at
docks, that is going to beleaning more towards the faster
side of the rods.
It does have a softer tip thanmost of our century rods, but
the nice thing is you still havethat fast action rod and it's
(19:20):
just easier to get the distance,a little more accuracy and
where I want to pitch it at, andyou know that that gets me
where I need to be.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (19:31):
Yeah , there's always the debate
between the extra fast and thefast for the top water, but you
bring up a really good point.
It's something that a lot ofpeople don't talk about is the
accuracy.
Yeah, and you know you thinkabout it.
The bend on a slow, let's justyou wouldn't use slow for top
water, so let's leave that out.
Let's just say moderate whenyou use slow for top water, so
(19:51):
let's leave that out.
Let's just say moderate.
When you're casting again, toget your power, you got to bend
that rod, similar, you know, inreverse to what you're seeing on
the screen right now.
That's where it's going to getinto the back.
It's a little different,because if you go along the
spline of the rod, it's actuallya little different.
It's not quite the same, butyou got to bend it more to get
that power, which also meansthat distance between that tip
(20:14):
and that rod where it's goingstraight.
Still, that's that's the playthat you have.
That's where.
That's where the inaccurateinaccuracy can come right,
because you have to, you have toswing.
It's like it's like for forthose golfers out there.
It's why it's more difficult toswing a driver than it is a
pitching wedge, because of theextra distance, it's not nearly
(20:36):
as forgiving.
So the faster you get generally, the more power you're going to
have in that launch of the lureand the more accuracy, because
that tip is not wagg left andright depending on how you sweep
it.
You know, you can.
You know some people like when Icast, I have a very inaccurate
(20:56):
cast motion.
You know it's, it's notconsistent.
I don't know if people can seeit, but like I'll, I'll roll my
wrist sometimes.
And if it's, if it's on a slowor a moderate or a medium.
It's definitely not nearly asaccurate as fast because the
travel between the tip and thatstraight part of the rod is just
not as much.
So it's not off as much.
(21:17):
Yeah, but what about the hookset?
John Creely (21:22):
As far as your hook set, it's nine times out of 10,
one more for some bit for bass.
You know they set the hookthemselves.
Just give it a little bump andit goes.
They'll eat anything.
But in reality you do have todrive it home just a little bit
more if they don't pick it upright away.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (21:42):
Yeah , so.
So this is always a debate forthe, and this is where it is,
it's, it's, it's almostexclusively a top order debate
between fat or, let's say,moderate oh, not moderate,
moderate, fast.
So in between the moderate andthe fast is typically where
people start that know whatthey're doing with top water.
I shouldn't say it that way,because there's some outstanding
(22:04):
top water fishermen that fishmoderates and mediums.
But generally speaking, you'regoing to see people moderate
fast up to extra fast, and it'stough for me to find a consensus
on which one's best for thehook set right, it's usually
well, I do this because of thecasting and the accuracy, but
(22:24):
the hook set it's different oneach.
So what do you want like?
I mean, do you know what wouldyou recommend for somebody
that's fishing?
Let's say they're walking, thedog is there.
Is there a certain action thatyou would suggest?
John Creely (22:38):
me personally.
I want the moderate fast.
That's me personally casting afew of the new js surf blanks
too.
I feel like you know, that typeof thing like walking the dog
throwing a metal lip seems to bea little bit better with with
those rods.
Not knocking century oranything, but that's just how
I've always fished has beenmoderate and moderate fast.
(23:00):
I have my century rods that Ilove for certain applications,
but I've seemed to have growntowards these rods and again I
can truly speak on it.
It definitely bends and feelslike a moderate fast rod okay.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (23:17):
So , by the way, I apologize for
the dog in the background.
Somebody decided to.
It was like an m100, I justfelt sitting here, so you had
okay.
So you're looking more themoderate fast.
What do you think about theaction, though?
Because, again, when you haveyour rod out there, you're
(23:38):
working the top water and you'rewalking.
Walking the dog is the exampleI like to use, because you're
actually working that lure andyou have to have some finesse on
it or else it ain't walkingright.
It's going to be skipping, it'sgoing to be I don't know plow.
Most of the time it's skipping.
For me, I find it difficult touse an extra fast rod.
(24:01):
I have one extra fast rod thatI got for topwater, and I don't
use it for topwater anymorebecause it's like every little
move of your wrist you're nowinto the power of that rod and
it just starts skipping and Ican't walk it as easily.
So do you find it easier towalk with those slower or I
shouldn't say slower, but thewell, yeah, the slower actions?
John Creely (24:22):
Yeah, when you're let's just say you're you know,
picking between fast andmoderate.
To me it's going to be a littlebit easier with the moderate
because you do have a little bitmore flex in a rod, but then
again now you're losing that.
That hook set.
It's not going to be as easy.
Right, there's so many.
It could go on for days.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (24:44):
Yeah , that's why this is I.
I personally love these types ofdiscussions because there's so
many ways to do it and I canonly share what I like and what
other people have told me aboutwhat they like.
For example, if I, the majorityof my cast in real fishing, so
subsurface is going to, which issubsurface is going to be, with
(25:07):
a jig head and a soft plasticon it, right Like I don't use a
ton of swim baits or glide baits.
I'd like to use more glidebaits but I just don't.
So what I'm using for those,I'm using extra fast on those
and I find that that worksreally well because you have a
(25:28):
swim action typically on thosebaits, so they're naturally
going to be swimming and itallows me to get a lot of action
into them with just a tinymovement of the wrist as I'm
reeling it in, whereas if you'rethrowing a medium it's I don't
know it just feels like 90% ofyour movement is just getting
(25:48):
the flex in the rod so you canget the power down to the lure
to move and that's pretty muchit.
John Creely (25:56):
Again, it goes back to like you're saying, that
little bit of flex in that roddoes help you move that bait
around the way you want to.
I'm sorry, I have it backwards.
It's the extra fast because ofthe stiffness.
How you have it, it, as opposedto that moderate or medium
moderate area, it's you'relosing it because of the
(26:18):
sloppiness.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (26:20):
Right , right, right yeah.
John Creely (26:21):
I was looking at.
I was looking at the slow,looking at it backwards, yeah.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (26:24):
Yeah , okay, so you're looking more
in the moderate to moderate areamoderate, moderate, fast for
the sheep's head.
John Creely (26:33):
Yeah.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (26:33):
And you're doing that.
You're doing that specificallybecause of the style that you're
fishing.
What are you using for talk?
John Creely (26:40):
for talk.
It's pretty much the same andit goes back to, like we said,
that hook set can be similar inthe way you want to drive the
hook home.
At least with Todd they havethose fat rubbery lips so you
have to send it through them.
The sheep said you're trying tosend it through the jaw Right.
(27:01):
Again, yes, it's a similar bitein that aspect where you want
to send the hook home, the sameamount of power.
So again, I'm looking in thatmoderate to moderate fast area.
Okay.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (27:15):
I'm going to agree.
I use actually a moderate fastfor sheep's head and for tog.
It's a moderate fast.
I just think it's easier and Ilove getting in the backbone
fairly quickly on them.
But I also yeah, I'll justleave it at that I like getting
into the backbone quicker onthose.
(27:36):
The biggest thing is for the togfor me, because the sheep's
head aren't necessarily goingfor cover.
They're not going to go intorocks and they're not going to
extend their fins and get stuckRight.
So you need something that'sgoing to get in the power on the
hook set and hold in that powerthe entire time so you can kind
of pull them away or pull themup or or whatever I don't.
(27:57):
I don't really see that issueso much for sheep's head, so I
would actually even becomfortable with more of a
moderate.
I don't know that I would gobelow that though, because, like
you said, you have to sink thatinto the bone on those fish.
Because, like you said, youhave to sink that into the bone
on those fish and if you don'thave power quick, it's going to
spit that hook and it's justgoing to be gone.
Now, what are you doing forsomething that has the softer
(28:22):
mouth?
Or are you even looking at thespecies like a weak fish?
What are you using for weakfish.
John Creely (28:28):
I'm going to use more of a faster rod just
because I'm going to be castingmore and especially if you're
sight casting, you know threefeet, four feet of water and you
know some of those spots wherethey hang around I want to be
able to rip that bait as fast asI can across, just so they can
go after it.
(28:48):
Again, that's the accuracything.
Going back to that, I want tomake sure I'm going in the same
area.
If I know where those weak fishare at, I want to be able to
put that bait in the same spotevery time.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (29:03):
Okay , and are you looking at a
different presentation?
Let's say you're not using ajig head, right, and let's say
you've got.
Let's say you're not using ajig head and let's say, let's
say you've got.
Let's say you're jigging forthem, okay, are you treating
that more like fluke or you doyou have a specific difference?
If you're just going to targetweak fish?
John Creely (29:23):
At that point.
I've it's.
I'm going to be using my flukegear at that point.
So I'm going to be looking morein that medium area because I
like that little bit of extrabend when I'm fluking.
So it's the same concept.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (29:37):
You know, if I'm going to be
jigging for them, I want thatlittle bit of extra bend okay,
yeah, I, I personally have foundwith specs and with weak fish,
because of their mouths andbecause they tear so easily, I
really do like this slow and themedium for those, unless I'm
casting.
If I'm casting, I'm going to afast or a moderate fast.
(30:00):
Again, I don't really likeusing extra fast all that often.
I'm not a finesse fisherman,right, so I tend to, I think,
put too much pressure at timeson a fish and where you're where
you're risking ripping out themouth or creating a hole big
enough for it to spit that hook,I want something that's going
(30:23):
to transfer less power on under.
You know more movement, youknow what I mean.
So I, as you said, I need it tobe forgiving and I'm definitely
using those slower rods whenI'm looking at a fish with kind
of like the paper mouth.
Now, fluke aside, fluke do kindof have a little bit of that.
(30:44):
But fluke it's all about thebite.
To me it's all about the waythat they eat, the way that they
put it in their mouth, the waythat they hold it, and for me I
want it slow because it makes meslow down right.
It makes my hook set lessurgent, a little slower.
(31:04):
It takes longer for that hookset to actually happen, and
that's where I'm doing that.
We got a couple of questions inhere, so I want to throw this
one up.
It's from Paul for Great BayOutfitters.
Action being constant, wouldyou consider conventional?
John Creely (31:24):
If you're looking at a constant action, it depends
.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (31:30):
Why don't we do this here?
John Creely (31:31):
is an example, conventional or spinning for
sheep and tog.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (31:35):
He's found his hookup ratio differs
between the two.
John Creely (31:39):
And I'll totally agree.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (31:42):
Okay , so I want to hear what you say
, because I bet you wereopposite I were 100% opposite.
John Creely (31:47):
I know exactly where you stand and I know where
I stand.
I don't know.
I'm spinning all day long whenit comes to jigging sheeps and
tog.
If I'm fishing, you know a rig,I'm on the conventional rod or
a bait caster.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (32:05):
at that point too okay, so we are
so opposite that we're identicalI do not like fishing for sheep
or tog with spinning gear onI'm sorry with conventional gear
, unless I'm fishing a rig.
Okay, I just I do and and, as amatter of fact, the rod that
(32:25):
I've caught the most sheep on isa cheap god, it's like a 35 rod
is it one of the five saw rods?
no, no, I forget what it is.
It's like I don't know it'ssome old thing.
I had it.
I actually just still have itbecause I'm shocked I never lost
it.
Okay, so I have it only.
And look, I've no secret that Idon't fish sheep very often,
(32:50):
but I don't fish this rod often,so I kind of put it aside just
for sheep, okay, and it's alwaysrigged up for that.
So, yeah, all right, so we're,we're both on spinning.
I I wonder Paul, throw in there, are you looking spinning for
sheep and tog?
And I'll be flat out, when I'musing jigs I have a much better
(33:10):
hookup rate when I'm fishingspinning.
There's like no question aboutit.
John Creely (33:17):
So you're saying you do have a better hookup
ratio with the jig on thespinning rod.
Yeah, and there's reasons forthat.
It's I've noticed it's you canbe able to put a little more
slack in that line on a spinningrod and just kind of let them
take the bait, walk away with it, as opposed to that
(33:37):
conventional rod.
You got to open up the bail alittle more.
A out it's at least with a jig.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (33:46):
Rig's a different story.
Okay, yeah, for rig.
It looks like the three of usare all using conventional for
the rig.
Well, for tog, he's using.
I just have a problem withthose jigs on conventional,
which is weird because I'll usethem on conventional slow pitch
for fluke, but not for these.
John Creely (34:07):
Yeah, no, and I agree with it a hundred percent.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (34:09):
All right, let's hit real quick
striped bass, because that'sgoing to become real popular
real soon.
So striped bass, and look,there's a thousand ways to fish
them.
Let's start off actually.
Let's start off this way.
What rod do you recommend forsomebody who's not sure what
they want to do, but they wantto start fishing from shore but
(34:30):
not the surf.
What are you going to berecommending for a good rod to
get started with?
John Creely (34:34):
I'm sure not the surf.
So it depends, and you have to.
Are we talking about, you know,10, 20 pound, 20 pound bass, 30
, 40 pound bass, because, again,that makes a big difference.
You know, what is that rodgoing to be able and what it's,
you know, capable of handling?
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (34:53):
So let's, let's, let's put it in,
as it doesn't matter what theslot is.
There are very, very few peoplethat care about the slot.
They want to catch the biggestfish possible.
So let's say the ones thatpeople are targeting the 36 to
50 inch.
John Creely (35:10):
You know, most of the time I'm looking again at
that faster rod because I'mlooking to get the distance as
far as I can and pinpoint my mycast every time.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (35:26):
Yeah , I'm.
I'm using personally a TFO proextra fast.
I believe it's extra fast,medium heavy and that's that's
what I'm going to be using foreverything.
Actually, I even use it in thesurf.
But it's not what I would usein the surf If I would go out to
buy a rod to use in the surf.
And I'm not talking bait.
There's no bait in any of thisconversation about striped bass
(35:51):
for me, because I just don'tbait fish for them.
At least in this conversationwe're not talking about that.
So I'm using something that'sgoing to be up in the fast to
extra.
I'll say fast, yeah, fastaction TFO Pro, which is a
pretty cheap rod.
It's $165, I think it may havegone up in the past year and the
(36:15):
medium heavy and I have caughtstriped bass over 50 inches on
that.
I don't think there were 50pounds.
Actually I do think it, but Ican't claim it because I have
absolutely no way of knowing ifit was, cause I didn't even take
it out of the water, it justkind of held it there.
Yeah, that's what.
(36:36):
That's what I'm doing, for thatis what.
What rod blanks would yousuggest for somebody who wants
to go to advanced and pick up agood straight bass rod in that
36 to 50 inch range?
John Creely (36:47):
it comes down to preference again.
You know it's we have.
You know the slingshot.
It's a good metal lip rod.
You know very thick bulky rod.
It's going to get the distancewhere you need it to be and it's
going to work those you knowplugs a lot better.
One of my personal favorites isthe I'm drawing a blank, we'll
(37:12):
get back to that in a minute.
But we have a lot of customersthat come in for the surf
machine because that's acontinuous action rod and that
will damn near throw everything,anything and everything you can
think of I've talked to acouple people who said, yeah, I
use this rod for this weightlure.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (37:32):
I'm like what.
And they're like yeah, it'sonly rated for a quarter of that
, but I still use it.
Yeah, they're able to throwanything.
They're like, yeah, it justmeans the warranty won't cover
it, but I'm still tossing it.
Yeah, here here's's a goodquestion, actually.
Joseph Kiley Two-part questionwhy or what is the purpose of
building a rod where the eyesrotate around the blank, and is
(37:55):
there any advantage to that?
And that, specifically, isreferring to acid-wrapped or
what the hell is the other namefor it.
John Creely (38:02):
Spiral wrap acid wrap.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fi (38:04):
Spiral wrap yeah.
John Creely (38:06):
So talk about that, I think you since I got you on
that now I think you can attestto it and why you would want to
use it in these situations.
When you are bottom fishing andlet's say you're anchored up,
especially on double anchor,you're fishing straight up and
down the whole day.
At that point that is nowcausing less fatigue and less
(38:30):
roll in that rod, as opposed tothose guides being straight up.
The line is also now aimed downdirectly to the fish as opposed
to being rolled over top of aguide the whole way down on the
rod.
It alleviates a little bit morestress and it's going to give
you a little bit better bitedetection because of the way
it's aimed towards that fish aswell yeah, and a couple of you
(38:52):
know to dispel a.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (38:54):
What people believe, then it's not
true is you can still cast withthem.
You still cast with a spiralwrapped rod and you can also
wrap it backwards.
So you have to figure out areyou right-handed or left-handed?
Because it will, it'll.
It'll spin it the wrong way inyour hand.
It'll naturally want to go oneway, where you're holding it you
(39:16):
know the opposite way, if thatmakes sense.
So you, in other words the, theeyes wrap one direction on for
a left-handed and then the otherdirection for right-handed it's
.
John Creely (39:30):
It depends on the builder, who you talk to and
what they believe in.
I mean me personally.
I notice a little bit of adifference.
I don't think everyone's goingto be able to pick that needle
out of the haystack, but thereare going to be the select few
that are going to.
Yeah, but nine times out of 10,the guy's just excited to get
the rod.
Me personally, though, I am oneof those guys I believe in.
(39:52):
Are you left handed or righthanded?
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (39:55):
Yeah , I definitely do.
And the reason is this If youthink about it, you're holding
it like a conventional right.
Think about it, you're holdingit like a conventional right.
I mean, the reel is on the topand your handle is going to be
on the left or the right right.
So if you're already puttingpressure on the left part of the
rod because you're reeling withyour left, where do you want
(40:17):
the rod to be pulling?
as it starts to wrap around itand you can absolutely feel the
difference on that and actuallynow, with a professional rod
builder, you probably won't runinto this.
However, there are a lot ofmanufactured rods where they
don't check for the spline andthat will automatically cause
(40:39):
some roll in the rod as it is,and you're definitely going to
have that roll in the rod whenyou have it acid wrapped because
that spline may not be exactlywhere it's supposed to be, and I
don't want to go too far intowhat that means.
But if you take a blank and youroll it, you can find the
spline of the rod and you shouldwrap it with.
(40:59):
This is debatable.
People believe this and somepeople don't believe this.
But the rod wants to bend in acertain direction.
It just does, and which isactually why you see a lot of
people that hold the rod upsidedown with their spinning reel
and you see it trying to twist,sometimes because it's it's off.
It's off spline and you knowit's.
(41:21):
It's rigged wrong or it'srigged properly, but you're
holding it improperly so itwants to spin over the other way
.
So you'll actually see thatwhere the rod is, you know
you're you're fighting itagainst the backbone that is
there for the cast instead ofthe backbone that is there for
the the fight of the fish.
I definitely believe it, thoughI think you need to find that
(41:44):
spline on the rod.
John Creely (41:46):
Yeah, I agree with that, I mean, and that's again.
You know that and it's a wholenother discussion.
We can go into 45 minutes.
More is the spline versus thestraight access.
And let's just say I build onthe spline and we'll leave it at
that.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (42:03):
Yeah , I mean, mean the rods want to
roll.
Yeah, so do you want a rod thatrolls in your hand?
When you're trying to fish,you're trying to pull it in
straight or you're trying totwist it around.
So you're trying to keep itaround the motors and all of a
sudden it starts twisting on you.
It's like do you really needthat extra strain, especially if
you're talking big fish?
Right, let's say you're out forpelagagics and your rod wants
(42:23):
to spin, or you're on a marlinor tuna and it wants to spin.
You definitely don't want that,but you have the same thing
with the acid wrap.
So, going all the way back towhat started this, you have the
same thing because the rod willtry to twist if it's not wrapped
the correct direction.
That's what I will say.
Any rod builder can argue withit if they want, but I've had
(42:46):
both.
As a matter of fact, you'vemade me.
The first rod that you madeacid wrapped for me was for
right-handed, and then the otherone is left-handed and they
fish different.
Now it doesn't really matterfor fluke, you know, because I'm
not really.
It's not going to twist forfluke, but it would matter if it
(43:08):
was a tuna rod, exactly.
All right, let's see if there'sother questions in here.
We wanted to kind of keep thisa little shorter.
Let's see All right, joe isonly using the spiral wraps.
All right, joe is only usingthe spiral wraps.
(43:43):
All right From James Flynn isthe graphic showing the rod
being bent backwards?
John Creely (43:44):
It is not.
It is just it's a bad graphic.
So showing the reels on thewrong side, what it's showing
there is under stress, with thefish on it.
You know, I just, I justrealized they're all spin
casters.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (43:48):
Yeah , it's a good question, and
you're correct, we're, we're.
What it's showing in thegraphic is you have a fish on
and you're fighting it that way.
So, yes, the real is opposite.
Yeah, yeah, it's not.
That's a good point.
It's not correct, not correct,okay, not, that's a good point.
(44:08):
It's not correct, not correct,okay.
This one's from paul again,cork or foam grip.
Sorry, if this is like a fordversus gm question, what's,
what's your preference on thegrips?
John Creely (44:16):
I fish everything.
It don't bother me.
I mean I'm even fishing shrinktube with cork tape now on some
rods, so it's again, it's allpreference, so your preference
is what, though, if you had topick one?
I mean, if you're holding a gunto my head, I mean I guess I'm
going to go cork.
I personally like cork, justthe feel of it.
(44:41):
Problem with cork gets a littleslick, gets a little slippery,
it has to be good cork?
Yeah, it does, and even the highgrade stuff it's, still it'll
fall apart later on down theroad, you know, quicker than the
foam.
Problem with foam is it gets alittle smelly after a while and
then if you start to yeah, itcan, but you really got to take
(45:02):
care of it you start gettinginto those fancy foam grips,
like some of the rods that I'vedone.
They're going to fall apartafter a while.
Keep cleaning them and cleaningthem, it's they're going to
tear apart.
So the cork to me seems to holdup better, I can maintain it
better and it's definitely a forversus GM question in my
(45:22):
opinion.
Yeah, I'm going to say I likecork.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing (45:26):
I prefer cork almost all the time
.
When I don't prefer cork islike I was talking about earlier
.
If I'm tuna fishing, if we'retalking the really large,
extended large fish, sharkfishing as an example, I don't
have one shark rod or one tunarod that has cork on it.
(45:48):
Yeah, even though I prefer cork, it's foam because foam it
doesn't hurt your hands as much.
You can have a a easier time ona longer fight.
But for everything else in theperfect world I have a nice high
quality cork on there because Ithink you get a really good
grip.
But on top of that, I believethat you can feel the rod and
(46:12):
what's happening on the rod alot better with cork than you
can with foam.
It doesn't deaden anysensations on there.
But the same thing can be saidabout the shrink wrap.
I mean you're literallytouching the rod Like it
transfers everything.
John Creely (46:27):
Yeah, I mean, if you think about, you know a lot
of guys that you know fish thesurf rods and have the Paco
grips on the surf rods.
You know we have customersrequesting that on normal seven
foot and seven foot 10 rods.
You know that these guys areusing on boats.
We have those requests now andyou have to think the cork tape
is there for a little bit ofcushion but that space in
(46:50):
between that cork tape is blank.
So you're you're directlyconnected with that fishing rod.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (46:57):
That .
That's an interesting see.
I don't know if a lot of peoplerealize what, what is
underneath some of these realseats and everything like that.
Like these, these rods don'tjust fit together perfectly and
just slide into place, right, Imean?
You, you've got gaps in betweena lot of it.
Yeah, right, I mean, if you dothe foam correctly, there's no
(47:22):
gap.
No, the cork.
If you do it correctly, there'sno gap.
No, the cork.
If you do it correctly, there'sno gap.
But sometimes there is.
If you, if you have a rodbuilder, or if you build your
own and you don't know how toturn any, you don't know how to
turn wood and you don't makeyour own custom grips, the sizes
don't necessarily match up withthe taper of the rod.
So what you end up doing isusing a lot of people use
(47:42):
masking tape.
So you just keep loopingmasking tape around the blank
until it's to a point where it'sgoing to take up that gap.
You put five minute epoxy orwhatever they're using, you
slide it on and over there,which leaves a gap in there, so
you don't have that directtransfer of energy between the
rod and your hand at that point.
John Creely (48:02):
Yeah, and that's basically that.
It's creating an arbor withthat masking tape so it has the
grip pass somewhere to sit.
But again, like you said, nowyou've created a gap between
that blank, where that gripisn't meeting the blank, so it's
not.
Again, you're not getting thatdirect feel of that blank.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (48:22):
Yeah , let me ask you this I have had
custom rods not that that youmade just for the record where
the real seat came off, okay,and you know, to fix that it's
not, it's not incrediblydifficult, but you have to start
taking stuff off, right?
Yeah, and I've seen wherethere's.
Just one of them was one thingof masking tape in the middle of
(48:46):
the real seat and it was justglued in one point.
How do you do it for those?
For real real seat is whereyou're going to get most of the
time personally.
John Creely (48:56):
I mean, I prefer the arbors themselves, but at
the same point of time, thevolume that you have to crank
out arbors aren't necessarilygoing to be cost-effective
either.
But you know, for a nice,cleaner look and everything like
that, for your peace of mind,an arbor, a polyurethane arbor,
is going to be the way to go.
However, you know most of therod builders still to this day
(49:19):
and I do it.
You know it's ease of time andeverything is the masking tape
trick.
So what you do is you glue inyour bottom grip or you know
shrink tube.
Whatever you're doing, set upthat whole bottom section, your
butt grip.
Once that butt section's in, Itake a paint marker and I mark
where the real seat ends andwhere the real seat begins.
I lay two arbors there and thenin between those two, on the
(49:43):
bottom and the top, I lay one indead center.
So I have three arbors tosupport the whole thing and then
I'll lay in my epoxy.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fi (49:51):
Gotcha .
Okay, that's good Cause.
So you have multiple points ofconnection there.
Yes, yeah, I have one.
It's in my garage right nowthat I took apart.
I was like there's one freakingthing of taste.
And then it was just glued tothe grips on each side.
I was like that is not that.
That's why it broke.
You know, it's impressive.
It lasts.
I'll be honest, john.
It lasted a really long time,probably 15, 20 years, okay.
(50:16):
But now I got to take it allapart and cut grips off and
everything like that, because II well, I cut the one off.
I'm like man I should have cutthe other one off, because now I
gotta slide this whole thingoff and and reseal it and redo
it.
John Creely (50:31):
There's tricks now.
There's tricks we could talkyeah, I think I'm.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (50:36):
Yeah , we'll talk about it.
I don't even know if it's worthredoing.
It was more of a taking a lookat it and what the hell happened
.
I was like, oh my god, it'sjust so poorly made.
But yeah, the guy who made itis no longer with us.
He's an old friend of mine itmight be worth saving that it
might well.
Yeah, I don't think I'd everfish it again, though.
(50:57):
All right, are there any otherquestions in here?
Let's see if I missed any.
It seems like the acid wrap isis something that some people
want to give a go on.
Yeah, it looks like we're.
It looks like we're covered.
It looks like we're covered onthe on the questions, john.
John Creely (51:17):
Thanks for coming on, man absolutely, and if you
don't mind real quick, justbecause I forgot to mention it
to you earlier, advanced Fishingis doing our rod demo show up
in Seaside Park.
It is, I believe, sunday is the29th or the 28th.
I'm sorry, sunday the 28th.
(51:38):
I think that's right.
It's 10 to 2, I believe I don'thave the flyer in front of me.
Come down, cast some rods.
Nice thing is, you know, ifyou've been contemplating on a
custom build, we offer Sentryrods, we now offer JS rods and
we now also offer Striker rods.
If you want to get thatentry-level custom rod, you know
(51:59):
.
Just something again, it'stailored to you.
We take your measurements howyou want it, glue everything
into place how you want it andgo from there, come out, test
everything.
We also have vendors coming outselling plugs, all kinds of
tackles, bags, free parking,free admission as of right now,
and we'll be over near theStewart's Root Beer in Seaside
(52:21):
Heights.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad F (52:23):
Awesome .
Yeah, everyone get out there,check that out.
There's something about a demoday that people should just
really go check them out.
It's the same thing as I talkedabout with Paul earlier with
Great Bay Outfitters.
Just demo this stuff.
Don't go into a shop and justget something that looks cool.
(52:43):
Anybody can make any blank lookcool.
The question is, can you learnabout the rod, learn about the
composition of the rod, thecomponents and everything like
that?
And at these demo days you'regoing to be able to do that.
So it's definitely worth thetrip out there.
I don't know what the weather'sgoing to be like, but the
weather's not great, it'sguaranteed rain.
John Creely (53:05):
Every year it always rains.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (53:06):
we're still there, but uh, just bring
a raincoat, it's guaranteedyeah, well, if you're not going
to be on the water fishing, youmay as well be spending money on
your next trip by gearing upwith some new stuff.
That's the way I look at it.
Yeah, all right, guys, everyone, john, thanks again.
Everyone, thanks for tuning in.
Next week we're going to havecaptain kayla hale on chesapeake
(53:28):
captain, she was on, I think,when I was with salt strong
actually, uh, and she's just man.
She's in on the striped bass,she's in on everything, uh, in
the northern chesapeake.
So she's going to be on.
The week after that we're goingto have bearded dad fishing, uh.
So any of you in kayak groups,uh, on Facebook or social media,
(53:50):
you've seen him out there.
So we're, we've got a couple ofbig guests coming up.
I'm still trying to figure outwith Hanushevsky when he's going
to be on.
So we've got some.
We've got some good guestscoming up.
John, thanks again for comingon.
We'll be back next week 7.30.
Until next week, everyone, getout there, get on the water and
get some tight lines.
It's meant for you grip size, placement, all that.
It really, truly it's how youwant that rod to be at the end
of the day, and you're not goingto get that on the shelf.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (00:16):
Hello and welcome back to the Fat Dad
Fishing Show.
I'm your host, rich Natoli, andtonight we're going to do it's
going to feel kind of like athrowback.
So we have former co-host JohnCreeley coming back on the mayor
and we're going to be talkingabout how to choose a fishing
rod.
It's going to be a little bitof an abbreviated holiday
(00:36):
edition with this Labor Dayholiday and I'm going to
apologize up front.
Right now we have a new dog inthe house and, uh, some moron
thinks that this is a firework,uh type of uh holiday for some
reason.
So, yeah, she's panicking,she's shaking, she just bailed
out of my office just now, sowe'll see if my wife can handle
(01:00):
her.
Uh, but yes, everyone, thanksfor coming in.
If this is your first time here, thanks for checking out the
show.
Look, if you enjoy it, hit afollow, hit a like, put a review
on any of the podcastapplications.
If you're listening to it, ifyou're watching it on the live
stream, youtube, just a likewould be appreciated and, of
course, let people know aboutthis.
(01:20):
We're trying to get a wholebunch of different variety going
on this show as we move forwardand we're going to do one of
the, I guess, more traditionalstyle, which is the how-to or
informational type of broadcasttonight.
That's why John's coming backon.
So before we hit that, beforewe get into that content, I want
(01:43):
to go through the sponsors, asalways.
Great Bay Outfitters on RadioRoad in Tuckerton, new Jersey,
is the kayak shop that you wantto be going to.
They got everything, justfinished up his Labor Day sale
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So make sure you do that.
He's got that Garmin Forceright.
(02:27):
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This will take care of all that.
Give Kevin a call, see if it'ssomething that is appropriate
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(03:33):
And then the last one is me forreal estate, southeastern
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I am now with Weikert Realtorsout of Bluebell.
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Anything residential realestate let me know.
And I do want to mention I dohave quite the network in
(03:54):
neighboring states where I amnot licensed.
But I can still help you outthrough licensed agents in those
states.
Got a couple going on in NewJersey right now.
I had one recently in SouthCarolina.
So anything you need, justreach out to me.
Numbers 267-270-1145.
Call text Just don't call rightnow.
(04:15):
I mean somebody might, but Ihave you on mute.
Yeah, so that's it.
So listen, we're going to jumpright into this.
We're going to bring John onthe screen and I'm going to tell
you a little bit about why youmight want to listen to John.
Hey, john, good to see you back.
What's up, buddy?
John Creely (04:30):
It's good to be here, it's good to be back.
It's definitely been a longtime and long overdue, as you
said.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (04:36):
Yeah , and a lot has changed.
A lot has happened over thepast couple of years, but back
doing the normal show, the waythat I was, and and look.
One thing that's different iswhen, when you were on as a
co-host, you had Creeley customrods.
You're building rods foryourself, but now you are one of
the rod builders for advancedfishing USA.
(04:58):
So why don't you tell us alittle bit about that, what your
kind of specialty is or thetypes of rods you like to make
there?
John Creely (05:04):
so it was roughly.
After I came off the show withyou, our friend dean, who was
one of the builders for advance,was leaving the shop and moving
south, called mike up and I wasactually just looking for a
couple blanks for myself.
He seemed kind of shooken up.
I was like all right, well,call me back later on.
It's like listen, dean'sleaving, you think you can help
(05:27):
me out with a couple builds?
Sure, and it just turned intothat.
So it became too much for me tokeep doing rods under my own
name.
Steer away from some of thedecorative stuff and get to
build some of the best rods inthe world, at least in my
opinion and others.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (05:42):
Yeah , I am.
I am the utility fishermen,right, I love the decorative
wraps, but that's not what I'mlooking for, and I'll tell you
what.
They still look really nicewhen you're you're cranking
those out for advanced.
I've I've seen the videos ofthem.
I've seen the pictures, andevery once in a while, you throw
a personal build in there andthat's where you really go crazy
(06:04):
.
John Creely (06:05):
Yeah, you have to when it's your personal build.
You have other people lookingat your stuff when they find out
your builder, so you try toshowcase a little bit more.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (06:13):
Yeah , so for people that aren't
aware, so John's made me a fewof my rods, actually my two
primary fluke rods he built.
One's a slow pitch and one'sone that we put together.
We did the cheapest rodpossible and the thing I love
the thing.
It's heavy but I still love it.
It works really well.
I've caught thousands offlounder on that at this point.
But John and I always had thisthing where he wanted to
(06:36):
decorate my rods.
I'm like, can you just make itblack?
He's like, no, no, just trustme, trust me.
And then it comes back with allthese colors.
I'm like, I appreciate it.
I definitely appreciate it, butit's, it is.
I'm the utility guy.
John is the one who wears the,the brands and everything,
almost like designer, whereyou're out there with the van
(06:58):
stalls, you're out there withthe beautiful wraps.
I just want a black rod.
John Creely (07:04):
And it's funny because that is like 80% of the
builds anymore that I do.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (07:09):
Yes , yes.
Well, it's a whole differentmarket.
You know, the custom market isa lot different, you know.
I mean custom is where peopleare putting in.
You know they're, they'regetting oh, I shouldn't say this
because a century blank, whichis one of the most popular that
you're going to be wrapping, isa premium blank.
But when you get into the purecustom, they're like yeah, I'll
(07:29):
throw an extra a hundred or 200to get it to look exactly the
way that I want.
John Creely (07:33):
Yeah, and they will .
You know, and that's the beautyof a custom rod and a lot of it
is it's tailored to you and alot of people don't understand
that.
It's meant for you grip size,placement, all that.
It really, truly it's how youwant that rod to be at the end
of the day, and you're not goingto get that on the shelf.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (07:53):
No , you're not, and that's where I
had this longstanding thing.
And we're going to talk aboutugly sticks today, because I'm
going to bring that up, becauseI have this personal battle
against ugly sticks, and it'snot that they're not good, it's
just they're not good for whatpeople think they're good for.
You know, or they put the theirbiggest selling point as the
(08:15):
most important part of a fishingrod, which is the fact that you
can't break it.
Well, you can break it, but youknow, for the most part, it's
really tough to break an uglystick and to me that's one of
the least important parts of afishing rod.
And I will say right now that,for the most part, as long as
(08:35):
you have a quality blank, aquality rod, if you break a rod,
I'm going to say easily, ninetimes out of 10, 90, 90 plus
times out of a hundred, it wasyour fault.
John Creely (08:49):
A hundred percent.
It was your fault.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (08:50):
Yeah , but the ugly stick.
It's more forgiving and okay Ifyou just don't want to break a
rod, I guess.
But I don't think you can catchas many fish with with that
type of rod.
In a lot of differentapplications Some they're
perfect.
You know it is a perfectapplication, but we'll talk
about those when we get to thegraphics and we start talking
(09:10):
about the power and all thatstuff on the rods.
So let's start off this way.
So, john, what is the mostimportant thing that you think
people should consider firstwhen they're going out to get a
fishing rod and let's, let'slook, we'll talk for seven weeks
if we don't narrow it down.
(09:32):
Let's go saltwater and let'stalk.
Let's start with, let's startwith your, your favorite species
.
Sheep said what, what are, whatare?
What's the number oneconsideration that you think
people should have before theystart shopping?
John Creely (09:45):
You have to find something that's leaning towards
that slower tip.
You're looking for thatparabolic bend in a rod.
Yeah, you lose a little bit ofsensitivity in that run there,
but at the same point in time,with it being a thinner diameter
blank, you should be able tofeel a bite.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (10:08):
It's more forgiving on a hook set.
Okay, so you're going basicallyslower action on them.
John Creely (10:12):
Yeah, now the rod that I've personally been
fishing and that's one of thecompanies we're dealing with now
in advance is JS Company.
They're one of Black Hole'scompetitors.
Killsong works with them nowand he's done a phenomenal job
with bringing those blanks intothe States.
He pretty much has set out tomade a true moderate rod.
(10:41):
The inshore supreme ultra lightis what I've been fishing for
sheep's head, that is a mixtureof carbon and then an S2 glass
tip.
So you do get that little bitof a parabolic tendency, but
again, you lose a little bit inthat sensitivity too.
I do feel the bite betterbecause the rod is rated 8 to 15
pound test on braid.
(11:03):
So you have to think thatdiameter of the butt is pretty
small at that point too, right?
So the way to describe it isit's a trout rod, essentially in
the saltwater game.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (11:18):
Well , that to me sounds like a hell
of a lot of fun.
Yeah, instead of those tankrods, you know.
John Creely (11:25):
And that has a lot to do with it.
It's you have to figure outwhat rod you're using for what
species.
Every rod has a job.
This one's going to throw topwater.
This one's better for bouncingjigs on the bottom.
This one's better for throwingpieces of metal.
There's a rod in every.
There's a rod in every.
There's a rod for everyapplication.
You can try and narrow it downand find the best combination
(11:49):
for a rod, but it's not.
You'll find something, but it'snot going to do one job Perfect
.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (11:55):
Right , you know it's interesting.
Do you remember way back whenChris Balaban was on and we were
talking about this and he madethe comment and sticks with me
today?
He's like with me today.
He's like you have to know,like you're gonna buy this
combination of rod and reel andyou're not gonna use it except
for this one specific time ofyear.
And you know he's talking likeyou'll use it one week and
(12:17):
that's it, and then just stow itaway because it has no other
application and it it's verytrue.
Now I, I tend to use one rod fora lot of things, but I use it
in park, imperfectly for each.
You know what I mean.
So it's you know I'll, I'll usemy fluke rods for TOG, which is
(12:38):
that that's probably thedumbest thing that I do, but I,
I still do it.
And and you lose a lot becauseit's a different hook set,
sheep's Head and Tog.
I think they're a lot closer,but the way that you present to
them is a lot different.
You're using a lot differenttackle, terminal tackle.
But I want to put this up thereand show people let's walk
(12:59):
through your Sheep's Head andlet's take a look at this
graphic.
You want to just kind of walkpeople through what this means
on the screen right now and forpeople that are listening to the
podcast, this is just a simplegraphic that's showing the
different powers of rods.
So you have the extra fast,fast, moderate, medium and slow
rods, and it's showing the bendof them.
(13:20):
So, john, you want to just kindof walk people through this so
they understand exactly whatthis is showing.
John Creely (13:26):
So yeah, when you're looking at the bottom,
we're describing the actions ofthe rods and when you hear
someone say, oh, I have amoderate or moderate fast rod,
the picture depicts on howthat's going to bend.
Going through this graph likewe were talking about is the
slow pitch rods you have atendency to lose that
(13:46):
sensitivity as you go up thegraph.
You gain more sensitivity, butwith the slow pitch rod you're
not going to be casting, likeyou would, an extra fast rod,
and that's what it was designedfor.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (13:58):
Right .
Yeah, I think one of the mostimportant things for people to
think about.
So it seems kind ofcounterintuitive when you say
that when you have the fasterrod it's more sensitive.
But what you're seeing in herein this graphic you can see that
the slow pitch is it's bentalmost in half.
(14:18):
Well, it is bent in half.
So this is showing the loadedrod and what it looks like and
where the bend is half.
So this is showing the loadedrod and what it looks like and
where the bend is.
So what you're seeing on theslow is it's bent in half and
this is where it's into thebackbone of the rod.
So that's where the power ofthis rod has transferred fully
into that lure or the hookthat's in the mouth of the fish.
(14:39):
If you go all the way to theright, there's the extra fast.
It doesn't bend as much.
So that's where you see people.
They assume you don't have abig fish on because there's not
a lot of bend in the rod.
But that rod all the way on theright, with that slate bend, is
fully loaded.
It's fully into the backbone.
So it's closer to the tip.
So John dropped off, he'll beback.
(15:03):
But as as you get a bite or astrike, you set the hook.
Think about the distance thatthe rod has to travel in order
for it to hit the backbone.
So extra fast when you go toset that hook.
It's an extra fast hook setbecause the rod only has to bend
that far before you transferthe power from the backbone of
(15:24):
the rod into the hook, whichmeans it's going to be more
sensitive.
You're going to feel it quickerin the backbone, whereas the
slow pitch all the way on theleft.
It's going to have to bendsignificantly before you're
going to have any of that powertransfer.
And you really don't feel muchon the tip of a slow pitch when
it's, you know, when it's justkind of bouncing on the bottom
(15:45):
or anything it's, it's notnearly as sensitive and it's
very slow.
It just means you have a verylong sweep to set that hook.
As compared to that extra fastor fast.
Anything that I missed on that,john, no that pretty much nails
it.
Okay, so.
So let's go back to the sheafshead.
So you're talking about whatrod you're using for sheep said.
Where is it sitting in this, inthis graph?
John Creely (16:07):
here they consider that a moderate rod.
Okay.
However, I mean I don't know ifyou see me fishing that rod
when we were out not too longago.
When that rod has been over, Imean it looks like a slow pitch.
It's realistically, it's notrated for what we're doing yeah,
(16:28):
so, and part of that is the.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (16:31):
The point of that is that it's not
rated for that size fish.
It's not supposed to be forthat size fish.
So the fish is pulling it wellbeyond and it's deep in the
backbone at that point.
Yeah, correct, yeah, so youknow that'll happen.
You know you put four pounds oflead on an extra fast, it's
gonna bend to bend.
It's going to bend further.
It'll also break before it goestoo far.
(16:55):
In many cases not all Some won'tbreak for quite a big bend, but
you have to look at that.
So what you have right up hereis the ugly stick is on the left
, ugly stick is on the left,yeah, which means to set that
hook, you have to do thosemonster freshwater bass hook
(17:16):
sets in order to get that powerinto the lip.
So hopefully this is makingsense to people and you start to
think about how you presentyour baits, what your fishing
tactics are and what type of rodyou're using.
Because right now, john, mostpeople just buy fast and they
just think that that's the bestthing.
So are there specificapplications that you would say
(17:37):
you would want to use an extrafast or a fast versus a?
John Creely (17:40):
moderate.
I mean in a fast application.
I would be looking more into asurf rod because you're looking
for that distance to get thatplug out.
You know past the bar mymoderate.
And you know past the bar mymoderate.
And you know your medium rods.
I'm looking more at my bottomfishing at that point off a boat
or kayak doesn't matter.
That's where I'm going to usethose because I want that little
(18:03):
bit of forgiveness in that hookset.
If you know, hey, we are outthere fluking and you know it.
Those fish, if they're biting,they come back four or five
times.
I mean you should have you knowit.
Those fish, if they're biting,they come back four or five
times.
I mean you should have you know, set the hook by the fourth
time at least.
But uh, you know that moderaterod, you know that's going to
help.
You know, hey, I got that extralittle bit of forgiveness on
(18:24):
the swing and I'm going to beable to, you know, set, send
that hook home.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (18:28):
Yeah , I'll tell you, for fluke, my
favorite rod now is a slow pitch.
That you made me Okay.
I switched over to using thatas my primary, so I have that.
You know I naturally have.
People have seen my videos, ormany people have seen my videos.
I tend to set the hell out ofthe hook anyway on a fluke, but
I have to now with that slow,that slow pitch, because it's
(18:51):
not getting any power until Ireally get it all the way back
into that backbone.
But I really like the moderate.
But what are you using fortopwater?
John Creely (18:59):
For topwater.
The one rod that I do like themost is the Century Weapon.
Especially if you're pitchingsmaller spooks and stuff at
docks, that is going to beleaning more towards the faster
side of the rods.
It does have a softer tip thanmost of our century rods, but
the nice thing is you still havethat fast action rod and it's
(19:20):
just easier to get the distance,a little more accuracy and
where I want to pitch it at, andyou know that that gets me
where I need to be.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (19:31):
Yeah , there's always the debate
between the extra fast and thefast for the top water, but you
bring up a really good point.
It's something that a lot ofpeople don't talk about is the
accuracy.
Yeah, and you know you thinkabout it.
The bend on a slow, let's justyou wouldn't use slow for top
water, so let's leave that out.
Let's just say moderate whenyou use slow for top water, so
(19:51):
let's leave that out.
Let's just say moderate.
When you're casting again, toget your power, you got to bend
that rod, similar, you know, inreverse to what you're seeing on
the screen right now.
That's where it's going to getinto the back.
It's a little different,because if you go along the
spline of the rod, it's actuallya little different.
It's not quite the same, butyou got to bend it more to get
that power, which also meansthat distance between that tip
(20:14):
and that rod where it's goingstraight.
Still, that's that's the playthat you have.
That's where.
That's where the inaccurateinaccuracy can come right,
because you have to, you have toswing.
It's like it's like for forthose golfers out there.
It's why it's more difficult toswing a driver than it is a
pitching wedge, because of theextra distance, it's not nearly
(20:36):
as forgiving.
So the faster you get generally, the more power you're going to
have in that launch of the lureand the more accuracy, because
that tip is not wagg left andright depending on how you sweep
it.
You know, you can.
You know some people like when Icast, I have a very inaccurate
(20:56):
cast motion.
You know it's, it's notconsistent.
I don't know if people can seeit, but like I'll, I'll roll my
wrist sometimes.
And if it's, if it's on a slowor a moderate or a medium.
It's definitely not nearly asaccurate as fast because the
travel between the tip and thatstraight part of the rod is just
not as much.
So it's not off as much.
(21:17):
Yeah, but what about the hookset?
John Creely (21:22):
As far as your hook set, it's nine times out of 10,
one more for some bit for bass.
You know they set the hookthemselves.
Just give it a little bump andit goes.
They'll eat anything.
But in reality you do have todrive it home just a little bit
more if they don't pick it upright away.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (21:42):
Yeah , so.
So this is always a debate forthe, and this is where it is,
it's, it's, it's almostexclusively a top order debate
between fat or, let's say,moderate oh, not moderate,
moderate, fast.
So in between the moderate andthe fast is typically where
people start that know whatthey're doing with top water.
I shouldn't say it that way,because there's some outstanding
(22:04):
top water fishermen that fishmoderates and mediums.
But generally speaking, you'regoing to see people moderate
fast up to extra fast, and it'stough for me to find a consensus
on which one's best for thehook set right, it's usually
well, I do this because of thecasting and the accuracy, but
(22:24):
the hook set it's different oneach.
So what do you want like?
I mean, do you know what wouldyou recommend for somebody
that's fishing?
Let's say they're walking, thedog is there.
Is there a certain action thatyou would suggest?
John Creely (22:38):
me personally.
I want the moderate fast.
That's me personally casting afew of the new js surf blanks
too.
I feel like you know, that typeof thing like walking the dog
throwing a metal lip seems to bea little bit better with with
those rods.
Not knocking century oranything, but that's just how
I've always fished has beenmoderate and moderate fast.
(23:00):
I have my century rods that Ilove for certain applications,
but I've seemed to have growntowards these rods and again I
can truly speak on it.
It definitely bends and feelslike a moderate fast rod okay.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (23:17):
So , by the way, I apologize for
the dog in the background.
Somebody decided to.
It was like an m100, I justfelt sitting here, so you had
okay.
So you're looking more themoderate fast.
What do you think about theaction, though?
Because, again, when you haveyour rod out there, you're
(23:38):
working the top water and you'rewalking.
Walking the dog is the exampleI like to use, because you're
actually working that lure andyou have to have some finesse on
it or else it ain't walkingright.
It's going to be skipping, it'sgoing to be I don't know plow.
Most of the time it's skipping.
For me, I find it difficult touse an extra fast rod.
(24:01):
I have one extra fast rod thatI got for topwater, and I don't
use it for topwater anymorebecause it's like every little
move of your wrist you're nowinto the power of that rod and
it just starts skipping and Ican't walk it as easily.
So do you find it easier towalk with those slower or I
shouldn't say slower, but thewell, yeah, the slower actions?
John Creely (24:22):
Yeah, when you're let's just say you're you know,
picking between fast andmoderate.
To me it's going to be a littlebit easier with the moderate
because you do have a little bitmore flex in a rod, but then
again now you're losing that.
That hook set.
It's not going to be as easy.
Right, there's so many.
It could go on for days.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (24:44):
Yeah , that's why this is I.
I personally love these types ofdiscussions because there's so
many ways to do it and I canonly share what I like and what
other people have told me aboutwhat they like.
For example, if I, the majorityof my cast in real fishing, so
subsurface is going to, which issubsurface is going to be, with
(25:07):
a jig head and a soft plasticon it, right Like I don't use a
ton of swim baits or glide baits.
I'd like to use more glidebaits but I just don't.
So what I'm using for those,I'm using extra fast on those
and I find that that worksreally well because you have a
(25:28):
swim action typically on thosebaits, so they're naturally
going to be swimming and itallows me to get a lot of action
into them with just a tinymovement of the wrist as I'm
reeling it in, whereas if you'rethrowing a medium it's I don't
know it just feels like 90% ofyour movement is just getting
(25:48):
the flex in the rod so you canget the power down to the lure
to move and that's pretty muchit.
John Creely (25:56):
Again, it goes back to like you're saying, that
little bit of flex in that roddoes help you move that bait
around the way you want to.
I'm sorry, I have it backwards.
It's the extra fast because ofthe stiffness.
How you have it, it, as opposedto that moderate or medium
moderate area, it's you'relosing it because of the
(26:18):
sloppiness.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (26:20):
Right , right, right yeah.
John Creely (26:21):
I was looking at.
I was looking at the slow,looking at it backwards, yeah.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (26:24):
Yeah , okay, so you're looking more
in the moderate to moderate areamoderate, moderate, fast for
the sheep's head.
John Creely (26:33):
Yeah.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (26:33):
And you're doing that.
You're doing that specificallybecause of the style that you're
fishing.
What are you using for talk?
John Creely (26:40):
for talk.
It's pretty much the same andit goes back to, like we said,
that hook set can be similar inthe way you want to drive the
hook home.
At least with Todd they havethose fat rubbery lips so you
have to send it through them.
The sheep said you're trying tosend it through the jaw Right.
(27:01):
Again, yes, it's a similar bitein that aspect where you want
to send the hook home, the sameamount of power.
So again, I'm looking in thatmoderate to moderate fast area.
Okay.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (27:15):
I'm going to agree.
I use actually a moderate fastfor sheep's head and for tog.
It's a moderate fast.
I just think it's easier and Ilove getting in the backbone
fairly quickly on them.
But I also yeah, I'll justleave it at that I like getting
into the backbone quicker onthose.
(27:36):
The biggest thing is for the togfor me, because the sheep's
head aren't necessarily goingfor cover.
They're not going to go intorocks and they're not going to
extend their fins and get stuckRight.
So you need something that'sgoing to get in the power on the
hook set and hold in that powerthe entire time so you can kind
of pull them away or pull themup or or whatever I don't.
(27:57):
I don't really see that issueso much for sheep's head, so I
would actually even becomfortable with more of a
moderate.
I don't know that I would gobelow that though, because, like
you said, you have to sink thatinto the bone on those fish.
Because, like you said, youhave to sink that into the bone
on those fish and if you don'thave power quick, it's going to
spit that hook and it's justgoing to be gone.
Now, what are you doing forsomething that has the softer
(28:22):
mouth?
Or are you even looking at thespecies like a weak fish?
What are you using for weakfish.
John Creely (28:28):
I'm going to use more of a faster rod just
because I'm going to be castingmore and especially if you're
sight casting, you know threefeet, four feet of water and you
know some of those spots wherethey hang around I want to be
able to rip that bait as fast asI can across, just so they can
go after it.
(28:48):
Again, that's the accuracything.
Going back to that, I want tomake sure I'm going in the same
area.
If I know where those weak fishare at, I want to be able to
put that bait in the same spotevery time.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (29:03):
Okay , and are you looking at a
different presentation?
Let's say you're not using ajig head, right, and let's say
you've got.
Let's say you're not using ajig head and let's say, let's
say you've got.
Let's say you're jigging forthem, okay, are you treating
that more like fluke or you doyou have a specific difference?
If you're just going to targetweak fish?
John Creely (29:23):
At that point.
I've it's.
I'm going to be using my flukegear at that point.
So I'm going to be looking morein that medium area because I
like that little bit of extrabend when I'm fluking.
So it's the same concept.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (29:37):
You know, if I'm going to be
jigging for them, I want thatlittle bit of extra bend okay,
yeah, I, I personally have foundwith specs and with weak fish,
because of their mouths andbecause they tear so easily, I
really do like this slow and themedium for those, unless I'm
casting.
If I'm casting, I'm going to afast or a moderate fast.
(30:00):
Again, I don't really likeusing extra fast all that often.
I'm not a finesse fisherman,right, so I tend to, I think,
put too much pressure at timeson a fish and where you're where
you're risking ripping out themouth or creating a hole big
enough for it to spit that hook,I want something that's going
(30:23):
to transfer less power on under.
You know more movement, youknow what I mean.
So I, as you said, I need it tobe forgiving and I'm definitely
using those slower rods whenI'm looking at a fish with kind
of like the paper mouth.
Now, fluke aside, fluke do kindof have a little bit of that.
(30:44):
But fluke it's all about thebite.
To me it's all about the waythat they eat, the way that they
put it in their mouth, the waythat they hold it, and for me I
want it slow because it makes meslow down right.
It makes my hook set lessurgent, a little slower.
(31:04):
It takes longer for that hookset to actually happen, and
that's where I'm doing that.
We got a couple of questions inhere, so I want to throw this
one up.
It's from Paul for Great BayOutfitters.
Action being constant, wouldyou consider conventional?
John Creely (31:24):
If you're looking at a constant action, it depends
.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (31:30):
Why don't we do this here?
John Creely (31:31):
is an example, conventional or spinning for
sheep and tog.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (31:35):
He's found his hookup ratio differs
between the two.
John Creely (31:39):
And I'll totally agree.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (31:42):
Okay , so I want to hear what you say
, because I bet you wereopposite I were 100% opposite.
John Creely (31:47):
I know exactly where you stand and I know where
I stand.
I don't know.
I'm spinning all day long whenit comes to jigging sheeps and
tog.
If I'm fishing, you know a rig,I'm on the conventional rod or
a bait caster.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (32:05):
at that point too okay, so we are
so opposite that we're identicalI do not like fishing for sheep
or tog with spinning gear onI'm sorry with conventional gear
, unless I'm fishing a rig.
Okay, I just I do and and, as amatter of fact, the rod that
(32:25):
I've caught the most sheep on isa cheap god, it's like a 35 rod
is it one of the five saw rods?
no, no, I forget what it is.
It's like I don't know it'ssome old thing.
I had it.
I actually just still have itbecause I'm shocked I never lost
it.
Okay, so I have it only.
And look, I've no secret that Idon't fish sheep very often,
(32:50):
but I don't fish this rod often,so I kind of put it aside just
for sheep, okay, and it's alwaysrigged up for that.
So, yeah, all right, so we're,we're both on spinning.
I I wonder Paul, throw in there, are you looking spinning for
sheep and tog?
And I'll be flat out, when I'musing jigs I have a much better
(33:10):
hookup rate when I'm fishingspinning.
There's like no question aboutit.
John Creely (33:17):
So you're saying you do have a better hookup
ratio with the jig on thespinning rod.
Yeah, and there's reasons forthat.
It's I've noticed it's you canbe able to put a little more
slack in that line on a spinningrod and just kind of let them
take the bait, walk away with it, as opposed to that
(33:37):
conventional rod.
You got to open up the bail alittle more.
A out it's at least with a jig.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (33:46):
Rig's a different story.
Okay, yeah, for rig.
It looks like the three of usare all using conventional for
the rig.
Well, for tog, he's using.
I just have a problem withthose jigs on conventional,
which is weird because I'll usethem on conventional slow pitch
for fluke, but not for these.
John Creely (34:07):
Yeah, no, and I agree with it a hundred percent.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (34:09):
All right, let's hit real quick
striped bass, because that'sgoing to become real popular
real soon.
So striped bass, and look,there's a thousand ways to fish
them.
Let's start off actually.
Let's start off this way.
What rod do you recommend forsomebody who's not sure what
they want to do, but they wantto start fishing from shore but
(34:30):
not the surf.
What are you going to berecommending for a good rod to
get started with?
John Creely (34:34):
I'm sure not the surf.
So it depends, and you have to.
Are we talking about, you know,10, 20 pound, 20 pound bass, 30
, 40 pound bass, because, again,that makes a big difference.
You know, what is that rodgoing to be able and what it's,
you know, capable of handling?
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (34:53):
So let's, let's, let's put it in,
as it doesn't matter what theslot is.
There are very, very few peoplethat care about the slot.
They want to catch the biggestfish possible.
So let's say the ones thatpeople are targeting the 36 to
50 inch.
John Creely (35:10):
You know, most of the time I'm looking again at
that faster rod because I'mlooking to get the distance as
far as I can and pinpoint my mycast every time.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (35:26):
Yeah , I'm.
I'm using personally a TFO proextra fast.
I believe it's extra fast,medium heavy and that's that's
what I'm going to be using foreverything.
Actually, I even use it in thesurf.
But it's not what I would usein the surf If I would go out to
buy a rod to use in the surf.
And I'm not talking bait.
There's no bait in any of thisconversation about striped bass
(35:51):
for me, because I just don'tbait fish for them.
At least in this conversationwe're not talking about that.
So I'm using something that'sgoing to be up in the fast to
extra.
I'll say fast, yeah, fastaction TFO Pro, which is a
pretty cheap rod.
It's $165, I think it may havegone up in the past year and the
(36:15):
medium heavy and I have caughtstriped bass over 50 inches on
that.
I don't think there were 50pounds.
Actually I do think it, but Ican't claim it because I have
absolutely no way of knowing ifit was, cause I didn't even take
it out of the water, it justkind of held it there.
Yeah, that's what.
(36:36):
That's what I'm doing, for thatis what.
What rod blanks would yousuggest for somebody who wants
to go to advanced and pick up agood straight bass rod in that
36 to 50 inch range?
John Creely (36:47):
it comes down to preference again.
You know it's we have.
You know the slingshot.
It's a good metal lip rod.
You know very thick bulky rod.
It's going to get the distancewhere you need it to be and it's
going to work those you knowplugs a lot better.
One of my personal favorites isthe I'm drawing a blank, we'll
(37:12):
get back to that in a minute.
But we have a lot of customersthat come in for the surf
machine because that's acontinuous action rod and that
will damn near throw everything,anything and everything you can
think of I've talked to acouple people who said, yeah, I
use this rod for this weightlure.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (37:32):
I'm like what.
And they're like yeah, it'sonly rated for a quarter of that
, but I still use it.
Yeah, they're able to throwanything.
They're like, yeah, it justmeans the warranty won't cover
it, but I'm still tossing it.
Yeah, here here's's a goodquestion, actually.
Joseph Kiley Two-part questionwhy or what is the purpose of
building a rod where the eyesrotate around the blank, and is
(37:55):
there any advantage to that?
And that, specifically, isreferring to acid-wrapped or
what the hell is the other namefor it.
John Creely (38:02):
Spiral wrap acid wrap.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fi (38:04):
Spiral wrap yeah.
John Creely (38:06):
So talk about that, I think you since I got you on
that now I think you can attestto it and why you would want to
use it in these situations.
When you are bottom fishing andlet's say you're anchored up,
especially on double anchor,you're fishing straight up and
down the whole day.
At that point that is nowcausing less fatigue and less
(38:30):
roll in that rod, as opposed tothose guides being straight up.
The line is also now aimed downdirectly to the fish as opposed
to being rolled over top of aguide the whole way down on the
rod.
It alleviates a little bit morestress and it's going to give
you a little bit better bitedetection because of the way
it's aimed towards that fish aswell yeah, and a couple of you
(38:52):
know to dispel a.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (38:54):
What people believe, then it's not
true is you can still cast withthem.
You still cast with a spiralwrapped rod and you can also
wrap it backwards.
So you have to figure out areyou right-handed or left-handed?
Because it will, it'll.
It'll spin it the wrong way inyour hand.
It'll naturally want to go oneway, where you're holding it you
(39:16):
know the opposite way, if thatmakes sense.
So you, in other words the, theeyes wrap one direction on for
a left-handed and then the otherdirection for right-handed it's
.
John Creely (39:30):
It depends on the builder, who you talk to and
what they believe in.
I mean me personally.
I notice a little bit of adifference.
I don't think everyone's goingto be able to pick that needle
out of the haystack, but thereare going to be the select few
that are going to.
Yeah, but nine times out of 10,the guy's just excited to get
the rod.
Me personally, though, I am oneof those guys I believe in.
(39:52):
Are you left handed or righthanded?
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (39:55):
Yeah , I definitely do.
And the reason is this If youthink about it, you're holding
it like a conventional right.
Think about it, you're holdingit like a conventional right.
I mean, the reel is on the topand your handle is going to be
on the left or the right right.
So if you're already puttingpressure on the left part of the
rod because you're reeling withyour left, where do you want
(40:17):
the rod to be pulling?
as it starts to wrap around itand you can absolutely feel the
difference on that and actuallynow, with a professional rod
builder, you probably won't runinto this.
However, there are a lot ofmanufactured rods where they
don't check for the spline andthat will automatically cause
(40:39):
some roll in the rod as it is,and you're definitely going to
have that roll in the rod whenyou have it acid wrapped because
that spline may not be exactlywhere it's supposed to be, and I
don't want to go too far intowhat that means.
But if you take a blank and youroll it, you can find the
spline of the rod and you shouldwrap it with.
(40:59):
This is debatable.
People believe this and somepeople don't believe this.
But the rod wants to bend in acertain direction.
It just does, and which isactually why you see a lot of
people that hold the rod upsidedown with their spinning reel
and you see it trying to twist,sometimes because it's it's off.
It's off spline and you knowit's.
(41:21):
It's rigged wrong or it'srigged properly, but you're
holding it improperly so itwants to spin over the other way
.
So you'll actually see thatwhere the rod is, you know
you're you're fighting itagainst the backbone that is
there for the cast instead ofthe backbone that is there for
the the fight of the fish.
I definitely believe it, thoughI think you need to find that
(41:44):
spline on the rod.
John Creely (41:46):
Yeah, I agree with that, I mean, and that's again.
You know that and it's a wholenother discussion.
We can go into 45 minutes.
More is the spline versus thestraight access.
And let's just say I build onthe spline and we'll leave it at
that.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (42:03):
Yeah , I mean, mean the rods want to
roll.
Yeah, so do you want a rod thatrolls in your hand?
When you're trying to fish,you're trying to pull it in
straight or you're trying totwist it around.
So you're trying to keep itaround the motors and all of a
sudden it starts twisting on you.
It's like do you really needthat extra strain, especially if
you're talking big fish?
Right, let's say you're out forpelagagics and your rod wants
(42:23):
to spin, or you're on a marlinor tuna and it wants to spin.
You definitely don't want that,but you have the same thing
with the acid wrap.
So, going all the way back towhat started this, you have the
same thing because the rod willtry to twist if it's not wrapped
the correct direction.
That's what I will say.
Any rod builder can argue withit if they want, but I've had
(42:46):
both.
As a matter of fact, you'vemade me.
The first rod that you madeacid wrapped for me was for
right-handed, and then the otherone is left-handed and they
fish different.
Now it doesn't really matterfor fluke, you know, because I'm
not really.
It's not going to twist forfluke, but it would matter if it
(43:08):
was a tuna rod, exactly.
All right, let's see if there'sother questions in here.
We wanted to kind of keep thisa little shorter.
Let's see All right, joe isonly using the spiral wraps.
All right, joe is only usingthe spiral wraps.
(43:43):
All right From James Flynn isthe graphic showing the rod
being bent backwards?
John Creely (43:44):
It is not.
It is just it's a bad graphic.
So showing the reels on thewrong side, what it's showing
there is under stress, with thefish on it.
You know, I just, I justrealized they're all spin
casters.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (43:48):
Yeah , it's a good question, and
you're correct, we're, we're.
What it's showing in thegraphic is you have a fish on
and you're fighting it that way.
So, yes, the real is opposite.
Yeah, yeah, it's not.
That's a good point.
It's not correct, not correct,okay, not, that's a good point.
(44:08):
It's not correct, not correct,okay.
This one's from paul again,cork or foam grip.
Sorry, if this is like a fordversus gm question, what's,
what's your preference on thegrips?
John Creely (44:16):
I fish everything.
It don't bother me.
I mean I'm even fishing shrinktube with cork tape now on some
rods, so it's again, it's allpreference, so your preference
is what, though, if you had topick one?
I mean, if you're holding a gunto my head, I mean I guess I'm
going to go cork.
I personally like cork, justthe feel of it.
(44:41):
Problem with cork gets a littleslick, gets a little slippery,
it has to be good cork?
Yeah, it does, and even the highgrade stuff it's, still it'll
fall apart later on down theroad, you know, quicker than the
foam.
Problem with foam is it gets alittle smelly after a while and
then if you start to yeah, itcan, but you really got to take
(45:02):
care of it you start gettinginto those fancy foam grips,
like some of the rods that I'vedone.
They're going to fall apartafter a while.
Keep cleaning them and cleaningthem, it's they're going to
tear apart.
So the cork to me seems to holdup better, I can maintain it
better and it's definitely a forversus GM question in my
(45:22):
opinion.
Yeah, I'm going to say I likecork.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing (45:26):
I prefer cork almost all the time
.
When I don't prefer cork islike I was talking about earlier
.
If I'm tuna fishing, if we'retalking the really large,
extended large fish, sharkfishing as an example, I don't
have one shark rod or one tunarod that has cork on it.
(45:48):
Yeah, even though I prefer cork, it's foam because foam it
doesn't hurt your hands as much.
You can have a a easier time ona longer fight.
But for everything else in theperfect world I have a nice high
quality cork on there because Ithink you get a really good
grip.
But on top of that, I believethat you can feel the rod and
(46:12):
what's happening on the rod alot better with cork than you
can with foam.
It doesn't deaden anysensations on there.
But the same thing can be saidabout the shrink wrap.
I mean you're literallytouching the rod Like it
transfers everything.
John Creely (46:27):
Yeah, I mean, if you think about, you know a lot
of guys that you know fish thesurf rods and have the Paco
grips on the surf rods.
You know we have customersrequesting that on normal seven
foot and seven foot 10 rods.
You know that these guys areusing on boats.
We have those requests now andyou have to think the cork tape
is there for a little bit ofcushion but that space in
(46:50):
between that cork tape is blank.
So you're you're directlyconnected with that fishing rod.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (46:57):
That .
That's an interesting see.
I don't know if a lot of peoplerealize what, what is
underneath some of these realseats and everything like that.
Like these, these rods don'tjust fit together perfectly and
just slide into place, right, Imean?
You, you've got gaps in betweena lot of it.
Yeah, right, I mean, if you dothe foam correctly, there's no
(47:22):
gap.
No, the cork.
If you do it correctly, there'sno gap.
No, the cork.
If you do it correctly, there'sno gap.
But sometimes there is.
If you, if you have a rodbuilder, or if you build your
own and you don't know how toturn any, you don't know how to
turn wood and you don't makeyour own custom grips, the sizes
don't necessarily match up withthe taper of the rod.
So what you end up doing isusing a lot of people use
(47:42):
masking tape.
So you just keep loopingmasking tape around the blank
until it's to a point where it'sgoing to take up that gap.
You put five minute epoxy orwhatever they're using, you
slide it on and over there,which leaves a gap in there, so
you don't have that directtransfer of energy between the
rod and your hand at that point.
John Creely (48:02):
Yeah, and that's basically that.
It's creating an arbor withthat masking tape so it has the
grip pass somewhere to sit.
But again, like you said, nowyou've created a gap between
that blank, where that gripisn't meeting the blank, so it's
not.
Again, you're not getting thatdirect feel of that blank.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (48:22):
Yeah , let me ask you this I have had
custom rods not that that youmade just for the record where
the real seat came off, okay,and you know, to fix that it's
not, it's not incrediblydifficult, but you have to start
taking stuff off, right?
Yeah, and I've seen wherethere's.
Just one of them was one thingof masking tape in the middle of
(48:46):
the real seat and it was justglued in one point.
How do you do it for those?
For real real seat is whereyou're going to get most of the
time personally.
John Creely (48:56):
I mean, I prefer the arbors themselves, but at
the same point of time, thevolume that you have to crank
out arbors aren't necessarilygoing to be cost-effective
either.
But you know, for a nice,cleaner look and everything like
that, for your peace of mind,an arbor, a polyurethane arbor,
is going to be the way to go.
However, you know most of therod builders still to this day
(49:19):
and I do it.
You know it's ease of time andeverything is the masking tape
trick.
So what you do is you glue inyour bottom grip or you know
shrink tube.
Whatever you're doing, set upthat whole bottom section, your
butt grip.
Once that butt section's in, Itake a paint marker and I mark
where the real seat ends andwhere the real seat begins.
I lay two arbors there and thenin between those two, on the
(49:43):
bottom and the top, I lay one indead center.
So I have three arbors tosupport the whole thing and then
I'll lay in my epoxy.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fi (49:51):
Gotcha .
Okay, that's good Cause.
So you have multiple points ofconnection there.
Yes, yeah, I have one.
It's in my garage right nowthat I took apart.
I was like there's one freakingthing of taste.
And then it was just glued tothe grips on each side.
I was like that is not that.
That's why it broke.
You know, it's impressive.
It lasts.
I'll be honest, john.
It lasted a really long time,probably 15, 20 years, okay.
(50:16):
But now I got to take it allapart and cut grips off and
everything like that, because II well, I cut the one off.
I'm like man I should have cutthe other one off, because now I
gotta slide this whole thingoff and and reseal it and redo
it.
John Creely (50:31):
There's tricks now.
There's tricks we could talkyeah, I think I'm.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (50:36):
Yeah , we'll talk about it.
I don't even know if it's worthredoing.
It was more of a taking a lookat it and what the hell happened
.
I was like, oh my god, it'sjust so poorly made.
But yeah, the guy who made itis no longer with us.
He's an old friend of mine itmight be worth saving that it
might well.
Yeah, I don't think I'd everfish it again, though.
(50:57):
All right, are there any otherquestions in here?
Let's see if I missed any.
It seems like the acid wrap isis something that some people
want to give a go on.
Yeah, it looks like we're.
It looks like we're covered.
It looks like we're covered onthe on the questions, john.
John Creely (51:17):
Thanks for coming on, man absolutely, and if you
don't mind real quick, justbecause I forgot to mention it
to you earlier, advanced Fishingis doing our rod demo show up
in Seaside Park.
It is, I believe, sunday is the29th or the 28th.
I'm sorry, sunday the 28th.
(51:38):
I think that's right.
It's 10 to 2, I believe I don'thave the flyer in front of me.
Come down, cast some rods.
Nice thing is, you know, ifyou've been contemplating on a
custom build, we offer Sentryrods, we now offer JS rods and
we now also offer Striker rods.
If you want to get thatentry-level custom rod, you know
(51:59):
.
Just something again, it'stailored to you.
We take your measurements howyou want it, glue everything
into place how you want it andgo from there, come out, test
everything.
We also have vendors coming outselling plugs, all kinds of
tackles, bags, free parking,free admission as of right now,
and we'll be over near theStewart's Root Beer in Seaside
(52:21):
Heights.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad F (52:23):
Awesome .
Yeah, everyone get out there,check that out.
There's something about a demoday that people should just
really go check them out.
It's the same thing as I talkedabout with Paul earlier with
Great Bay Outfitters.
Just demo this stuff.
Don't go into a shop and justget something that looks cool.
(52:43):
Anybody can make any blank lookcool.
The question is, can you learnabout the rod, learn about the
composition of the rod, thecomponents and everything like
that?
And at these demo days you'regoing to be able to do that.
So it's definitely worth thetrip out there.
I don't know what the weather'sgoing to be like, but the
weather's not great, it'sguaranteed rain.
John Creely (53:05):
Every year it always rains.
Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (53:06):
we're still there, but uh, just bring
a raincoat, it's guaranteedyeah, well, if you're not going
to be on the water fishing, youmay as well be spending money on
your next trip by gearing upwith some new stuff.
That's the way I look at it.
Yeah, all right, guys, everyone, john, thanks again.
Everyone, thanks for tuning in.
Next week we're going to havecaptain kayla hale on chesapeake
(53:28):
captain, she was on, I think,when I was with salt strong
actually, uh, and she's just man.
She's in on the striped bass,she's in on everything, uh, in
the northern chesapeake.
So she's going to be on.
The week after that we're goingto have bearded dad fishing, uh.
So any of you in kayak groups,uh, on Facebook or social media,
(53:50):
you've seen him out there.
So we're, we've got a couple ofbig guests coming up.
I'm still trying to figure outwith Hanushevsky when he's going
to be on.
So we've got some.
We've got some good guestscoming up.
John, thanks again for comingon.
We'll be back next week 7.30.
Until next week, everyone, getout there, get on the water and
get some tight lines.
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