EP 47: Seasonal Closures, Flawed Data, and Striped Bass with Jim Hutchinson Jr.

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jim Hutchinson Jr. (00:00):
We are at the same exact number where we
were 30 years ago, 1995, when wewere all celebrating the
rebirth of stripers.
It's it's going up, and we'reright where we were 30 years
ago.
And today we have the we have a30-year low on striped bass
mortality in the recreationalcommunity, and we're still
talking about this 12%reduction.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (00:26):
Hello and welcome back to the Fat Dad
Fishing Show.
I'm your regular host, RichNatoli, and we're gonna have one
of those episodes tonight,playoffs be damned.
We've got to talk aboutsomething a little bit more
important right now.
Uh besides the questionabledecisions of Rob Thompson and
the lack of hitting at the topof the Phillies order, we got to

(00:48):
talk a little bit about strikebass because as the title of
this episode says, it could beclosed.
And that could be closed downnot just for harvesting, but it
could be closed for targeting.
So we have Jim Hutchinson Jr.
from the Fisherman Magazinecoming on tonight.
We're gonna go through, we'regonna talk about this before we
jump in and uh we're gonna we'regonna skip quickly to it.

(01:09):
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(03:24):
Uh, with that said, we're gonnajump right in.
We're gonna bring JimHutchinson Jr.
Jim, welcome back.
It's great to see you again.
It's good to be back again,Rich.
Thank you very much.
Yeah, I I love when you're on.
I have to say, I, you know,it's it's we always seem to have
the conversations that are, youknow, that they're so

(03:46):
important.
And look, we all like talkingabout how to target certain
species, how to catch more fish.
But, you know, when we'retalking, we're talking about
habitat, we're talking about themacro issues that can really
affect the fisheries.
And this is one of them, andit's one that we saw coming a
couple months ago when wetalked, and we weren't sure
where it was gonna go, but nowwe've got you know, we've got

(04:10):
the word closure on everyone'slips, including the Atlantic
Marine Fisheries Council.
And we got to dive into that.
So, what is your summary as wenow the public the public can't
talk anymore?

Public public comment is done.
So, the first thing I wouldcouch this by saying is I don't
want everybody to get scared bythinking that striped bass is
going to be closed.
I mean, it's they're talkingabout implementing a seasonal
restriction.
So we are looking at anywherefrom I I brought out my notes
just to be case.
I know it was anywhere from,for example, 34 days of no

(04:45):
harvest down to 25 days of notarget.
So when we say season closure,I would kind of couch it by
saying that we're looking at uhtreating striped bass more the
way that we have treated blacksea bass and fluke and porties
over the years, where we'regonna have a limited seasonal
closure.
And that that way we can getinto the the nuance of this.

(05:08):
But you know, we're talkingabout 34 days.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (05:11):
So that said, where should we
start?
Well, I guess you know, one ofthe things comes down to now I
didn't attend any meetings.
I'll be honest with you, Ididn't.
I was going to go to thePennsylvania one.
It is a long drive after workto get there.
So I went online and Isubmitted probably the most
rambling, but as comprehensiveas I could, comment directly

(05:36):
through the website.
So I at least did that part.
Nikonoshevsky was on last week.
He seemed to feel like he washoping there would be more
people in person.
But do you have any, you know,any insight as to how you kind
of read the room after themeeting that you attended?
You attended at least one.

So the way I read the Pennsylvania room was
the same way as I read the NewJersey room.
The majority of folks in bothof those rooms really believe
that status quo is the bestpossible option.
That is the flavor that I gotfrom the people in the room.
Now you had roughly 70 peoplein Bristol, Pennsylvania,
roughly 100 people, I think, inNew Jersey.
New Jersey did not have anonline portion, Pennsylvania

(06:15):
did.
There were 15 members of thepublic online, but again, most
of the folks that I have heardin Pennsylvania, New Jersey said
just leave them alone.
So let's get into this realquick.
And just I want to break thisdown.
You know, I said it before,everybody's talking about a
closure.
We're not talking about amoratorium, we're talking about
a seasonal closure.
So, what the ASMFC and theAtlantic Striped Bass Management

(06:38):
Board is looking at is that weare in a rebuilding period, and
we have to rebuild the spawningstock biomass of striped bass to
247 million pounds by the year2029.
Spawning stock biomass is thosebig fish, and I somebody asked
me this question the other day.

(06:59):
I believe they're the fish over28 inches, could be 30, I'm not
sure, but it is the breedingsize, breeding age striped bass.
So that's historically why wehad the um the 28-inch minimum,
because uh striped bass, afemale is thought to have
spawned once, maybe twice bythat size, and they've always
wanted to let them spawn first.

(07:20):
So we are in a situation nowwhere we're not going to,
according to the data, we have aless than 50% chance of
reaching the target and insidethe deadline.
Yeah, and the reason we areless than 50% at this point is
because of the recreationalcommunity via the marine

(07:43):
recreational informationprogram.
The MRIP is the survey that isadministered at random.
They take random docksidesamples and they send random
postcards and they couple theyput all this information
together to determine how manyfish we catch.
It's not an exact science.
This inexact science over thelast couple of seasons is
showing that we're catching morestriped bass in the

(08:05):
recreational community, andenough so that we have taken
ourselves off that rebuildingtrack to get up to the 2029.
Maybe it's more like this asopposed to that, but we're not
going to hit the 2029 deadline.
We only have a less than a 50%chance.
That's why the uh all thescientists, researchers, the
ASMSC striped bass managementboard got together and said,

(08:26):
look, we've got to reducemortality by 12% so that we can
get that 50% chance.
Now, what I'm saying bymortality, this is very
important to consider.
You've got the commercialmortality, and the commercial
sector has their quota, theirquota plus their bycatch
discard.
They would have to take a 20,12, 12% cut theoretically, on

(08:48):
their quota.
And on the recreational side,we have to take a 12% cut on our
side as well.
Now, I'm gonna throw somenumbers at you.
This is all data coming fromASMFC.
I'm not making any of thisstuff up.
This is important to followthat in the recreational
community, we are responsible.
I believe the number is 84%.

(09:09):
The recreational community isresponsible for 84% of the
striped bass removals, deadfish.
The commercial sector isresponsible for 16%.
And again, this whole thingabout the 12% reduction is based
on the recreational datacollection.
I mean, if I were a commercialguy, I'd be up in arms right
now, but that's not the we're12%.

(09:30):
Everybody's gotta take it,buddy.
Of that 84% in the recreationalcommunity, you have 42% of that
is taken from the harvest, and42% comes from the 9% mortality
rate on catch and release.
So it's 50% either side.
That's why there are twoseparate options there.

(09:58):
Because if you have a, forexample, a 34-day no-harvest
closure, well, that's one thing,but if everybody had to stop
fishing for stripers and youcan't even catch and release
them, it's got to be shorter.
The original plan was like onemonth versus two months.
Now we're looking at 34 daysversus 25 days.

(10:19):
That's why both options arethere, because you can shorten
your mortality reduction by juststopping stripe bass fishing
for those 24 days.
So that's why we have twochoices.
Now I'm gonna just kind ofcontinue down this road real
quick.
This is what you would haveheard if you had gone to the
striped bass hearing with a lotmore level of detail.
What the ASMFC wants to do israther than go state by state

(10:42):
and ask each state to come upwith their own 12% reduction
plan, they have lopped all thestates into two separate
regions.
The one region is the northernregion, and that is from Maine
to Massachusetts or Maine toRhode Island.
They haven't determined thatyet.
Okay.
So let's just let's just usefor an example, Maine to Rhode
Island is northern region.

(11:03):
The southern region would beConnecticut down to North
Carolina.
So each of those regions, thosetwo regions, would have their
different set of 12% mortalityreductions.
For example, here in thesouthern region, here in New
Jersey, for example, most of ourbest striper fishing is in the
spring and the fall.

(11:23):
So the way they have listedthis is they are looking at the
one real option that is on thetable for us is a wave six
reduction.
And wave six is based on MRIP.
There's six waves of MRIP, andthe six wave, the sixth wave of
MRIP is November and December.

(11:43):
So if we got the 12% reduction,the theoretical argument here
is we are going to have toeither take 34 days of no
harvest from that or 25 days ofno target.
The way I've got that figuredout, if if this gets approved,
then the states have to figureout how they're going to meet
out the reduction.
So let's just say, for example,you lop off the end of the

(12:06):
season.
That means all of December, noharvest would mean all of
December.
And then the last day ofharvest striped bass fishing we
would have in 2026 would be onThanksgiving of 2026.
On the other hand, if you juststopped targeting, no catch and
release, no nothing, then youwould shut down the striped bass
fishery entirely as of December7th.

(12:28):
Now, two things to a couplethings to keep in mind with
this.
Obviously, a December closure,I don't think is going to mean
as much to somebody inConnecticut as it does to
somebody in Cape May County orDelaware.
And then for the northern coastof New Jersey, the November run
of striped bass is thepenultimate.
It is it.
That's everything.

(12:49):
So if you lose a few days inNovember, that really sucks.
But a lot of folks to the northwould say, I guess that's the
best way I can deal with that.
But I know guys down inAtlantic and Cape May County are
like, we're just getting thestripers in December.
How is this right?
That's right.
And Delaware doesn't get thethe striped ass until December.
So I think that that's that'sproblematic in the way the ASMFC

(13:11):
is setting up these regions.
If they really wanted to do the12% reduction the right way,
they would leave each state tofigure out what the best way to
come up with a 12% reductionwould be.
So again, uh there's there's acouple things that just if I
could, Rich, and then whateverquestions you have, but there
are there are two factions here,right?
You know, you're either in thecamp that says, well, I can
accept the 12% reduction, let'sdo it.

(13:32):
Or you're in the faction thatsays, I don't think there's any
justification on this, and Ithink we should just go status
quo.
Well, so let's go with thestatus quo argument real quick.
The folks who are talking aboutstatus quo have some really
good arguments.
One, this is based on MRIP.
And back in 2022, NOAAfisheries acknowledged that
their MRIP surveys, the fishingeffort survey portion of MRIP

(13:55):
was overestimating effort by asmuch as 30 or 40 percent.

Speaker 01 (13:58):
Right.

Well, they're supposed to fix that
next year.
So we don't know what that'sgonna look like.
If you shave 30, 40 percentoverage from that, we'd be right
on target, wouldn't we?
So yeah, that doesn't make anysense.
And the other argument forstatus quo is is also the fact
that a 12% reduction in asouthern region with Connecticut
and South Jersey, two totallydifferent regions.
So that doesn't make sense.

(14:19):
And the third point is there'sa brand new benchmark stripe
striped bass assessment comingout in 2026.
It'll get peer-reviewed in2027.
That is a full benchmark stockassessment, which means they
bring in new data, they look atthe reference points.
By 2027, we might have adifferent understanding of the
status of striped bass rightnow.

(14:40):
And a lot of folks are sayingthe 12% is good because striped
bass is is plummeting.
Well, that's that's not true.
The where we are today is at aat roughly 200 million pounds of
spawning stock biomass.
We are at the same exact numberwhere we were 30 years ago,
1995, when we were allcelebrating the rebirth of
stripers.

(15:00):
Right, it's going up, and we'reright where we were 30 years
ago.
And today we have the th wehave a 30-year low on striped
bass mortality in therecreational community, and
we're still talking about this12% reduction.
So, again, there's two separatecamps.
I think there's an argument tomeet on both on both sides, but
but and and I haven't expressedmy opinion.
I'm just trying to deliver asmuch of the facts as possible.

(15:23):
But you know, I I certainly seeI certainly see the argument
that was made in Pennsylvaniaand in New Jersey at those
public hearings where they justsay, just leave it alone, we'll
talk about it next year.
I I think that that's a validargument.

Yeah, I my my whole issue comes from
uh so I have a background instatistical analysis and did it
for very large companies.
And I know a couple of things.
First of all, if you give meone block of data, I will make
it say what you want it to say,if that's what you want me to
do.
Uh it I can tell you that fourout of five dentists like

(15:58):
Colgate, and I can tell you fourout of five like Crest, and I
can prove it.
Right?
I mean, that's that's how theydo it.
My biggest concern is thequality of the data.
And and making a decision rightnow based on data that you
admit is flawed, and just basedon what you would so I I'm also

(16:22):
a little skeptical, right?
So it could be off by aboutthir up to 30 percent, which to
me means it's up to 60, right?
So it could be, or it couldjust be, you know, but but
they're they're saying it's inthat direction.
So I I'm wondering, I can't getout of my head why are they
trying to do something now whenthey have this change, unless

(16:42):
they're not confident in thechange in the data collection
for next year?
Because we're not in we're notin a situation where it's not
weak fish, right, from 15 yearsago.
They're not disappearing.
We know they're still there,they're still on the incline.
So, okay, we're not gonna hitthey don't think we're gonna hit
this arbitrary number, but theyalso have to recognize by their

(17:05):
own admission, we actuallymight be able to hit that by
2029 if what we think is wrongwith our data is actually wrong
with our data.

They if if they get to the stock assessment
portion in 2026 and the peerreview, they could they could
knock down that that target.
It's that's theoretical.
I've seen that written by somepeople who are very
conservation-minded when itcomes to striped bass.
But again, 30 years ago ourgoal was 200 million pounds, we
hit it.
Then what they did was the nexttime we went into a rebuilding

(17:35):
track for striped ass, theydecided to set the new target at
125% on the last rebuild.
So rather than rebuilding it to200 or taking it up to 220 or
215, they built it up 125% andwent to 247.
Now that's a pretty big muttnumber, and that's only a number
that we've only had for a shortperiod of time in the early

(17:57):
2000s.
Is it realistic?
It could still be.
But we are ex we are expectingthis historic number when our
fishery, the the spawning stockbiomass right now is actually in
pretty good shape,comparatively speaking, and
growing.
Folks are also conflating twoseparate issues because this is
the this is the rationale forthe 12% cut.

(18:20):
But then somebody will grab meand say, this the spawning,
there's no spawning in the inthe in the in the ches peak.
We're gonna have to shut itdown.
I was like, well, these are twoseparate issues.

Yeah, they're totally different.

Right.
The goal is to put as many big,fat, feekin' female fish in the
stock as possible.
So that they lay their eggs andthe conditions are right, we
have a robust season.
The problem is with whateverthe problems are in the
Chesapeake, we're not gettingany robust seasons.
Right.
Um, they've been average belowaverage the last bunch of years.
Could be climate change, itcould be uh blue catfish, it

(18:53):
could be the lack of bunker, itcould be nutrient nutrient
runoff from the farms andoverdevelopment, we don't know.
So I would rather see, well,not that I'd rather, but I would
really like to see a concertedeffort to get a better
understanding of the health ofthe Chesapeake.
You can look up the Hudson, andif you go back in the numbers,
a few years ago the Hudson wasreally good spawn.

(19:14):
It was down the last couple ofyears.
Actually, it was down lastyear.
I think it was a little aroundaverage the year before that,
but two, three years ago, the itwas it was above average.
Yeah.
So we're still having somespawning success.
Something that I learned inBristol that I didn't know is um
Pennsylvania Fish and BoatCommission biologist Tyler
Grabowski ran the meeting,really ran a tight meeting, but

(19:36):
somebody asked a question behindme, and it was a great
question.
It's like, what is the DelawareRiver responsible for in terms
of the coastwide stock?
And it's like, wow, I neverthought about that.
And Tyler said 15%.
So if you think about ourstates of Pennsylvania and New
Jersey bordering that thatDelaware River, the Delaware
itself is responsible for 15% ofthe total stock, which is a

(19:57):
pretty healthy number.
It is.
But now it raises the question,another one that I don't really
know is how many of those fishfrom the Delaware and the
Chesapeake are using the C and Dcanal?
There are a lot of things thatwe don't know about striped bass
right now.
We don't know much about thespawn.
We don't know how many of thosefish are ending up in ocean
waters.
How many smaller resident,so-called resident fish, are

(20:21):
using the C and D canal to goback and forth between the
Chesapeake and Delaware andaren't getting out in the ocean
run.
There are a million questionswe don't know about striped
bass.
But the only thing that I wouldleave is that we are not in a
death's door in striped bass.
The spawning stock biomass isnot in bad shape.
What we do have to haveconcerns about, and we all

(20:41):
should, as anglers, over thenext few years, if the numbers
uh from the Chesapeake,Maryland, Virginia, and the
Hudson, and also the Delawarespawn uh SAIN surveys, if
they're all accurate, we aregoing to see fewer fish in the
mix over the next few yearsbecause there's there's supposed
to be less younger fish.
So we're going to see fewerfish.
But when we do, I hope folksremember, oh yeah, that's what

(21:04):
we were talking about.
That's that spawning, that'sthat spawn.
Spawning stock biomass is uphere, spawns are down here.
It's a vicious cycle.

So right.
Right.
And I I I just always have theissue with, you know, we just
don't know enough.
And I I just wonder when we'regonna figure some of this stuff
out.
Like we don't know.
All right, so the Chesapeake isone of the traditional known
spawning areas, the Hudson, youknow, those are two the two big

(21:32):
uh two big ones.

But we don't know.
Just speak Delaware and Hudson,yeah.
We're in Delaware.
So we know that there's otherspawning estuaries, could be the
Mullica, the Great Egg in NewJersey, the Housatonic in
Connecticut.
I I would dare say theHackensack, but the Hackensack's
probably considered portion ofthe of the Hudson.
Right.
We know that there are smallerestuaries that are producing
fish, but in terms of the largenumbers of recruitment of young

(21:55):
of the year, you have young ofthe year, that's the baby
stripers in year in the firstyear that they're they're
hatched, and then they they usea recruitment year, the year
after that.
So they monitor how many fishbecame from went from here to
here.
So a recruitment class is theyear after they're born.
The the biggest number of fishin our stock comes from the Ches

(22:17):
Peak first, the Hudson, and theDelaware.
And they don't really considerall those other, let's call them
little feeder estuaries.
They're not really producingthe way the Chesapeake is
supposed to and historicallyhas.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (22:29):
But do we know that there aren't,
they haven't just moved toanother spot?
I mean, are they in theHustatonic?
I mean, there it seems to methey should be, you know, with
the way that everything hasmoved north, that that opens up,
especially that river, thatopens that opens that up as a
real possibility.
Do we know that there's youknow they don't travel the same

(22:52):
way that they used to?
Just look in New Jersey as anexample.
You don't you don't get thatspawn or that that migration
through the rips and hanging outin the rips.
So something has changed.
You talking Cape May?
Cape May.
So so something has changed,and I don't think it's the
numbers, it's where they'regoing.

I'm gonna throw a curveball at you.
You want a curveball?

Okay, yeah.

So tell me the year that you remember the
last year where the Cape Mayrips were and and the the
November fishery in Fortescuewith the the lumps and the
horseshoe and pintop.
When was the last time that wasa great fishery?

I'm gonna guess and say 2000.

2000.
That's 25 years ago.

Yeah, at the latest.

So that's 25 years ago, and it's it's gone
down significantly every yearsince then, right?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fi (23:42):
Right.

What happened 25 years ago?
Do you know?

Well, so we had well, first of all,
we had uh tons of pollutioncoming through the Delaware and
out into the Delaware Bay.
That's one.
Didn't we?
We had a big storm, too.

Well, what I'm saying, here's my point.
So in 2000, New Jersey bannedthe reduction industry from
operating in state waters.
And in the 90s, the folks fromOmega in Virginia were raped.
I don't know if they'll listen.
So they are they're doing a lotof damage on our bunker stocks.

Speaker 01 (24:17):
Yeah.

In 2000, we kicked them out of New Jersey
waters, and then subsequentlyother states did the same thing.
So there's it's illegal tooperate a reduction fishery
inside of coastal waters.
In that time frame, we saw theinshore bunker population
explode.

Speaker 01 (24:33):
Right.

And I know folks are are really worried
about omega right now, andthey're they're a concern, and
I'm not a big fan, but accordingto the data, ASMFC data, we are
at a 40-year high in terms ofthe bunker population.
So 20 years ago, we startedseeing this inshore bunker
population pop up.
And they're there in the springand they're there in the fall.

(24:55):
And what's the what's the keyterm that we always say about to
we advise each other asfishermen, don't leave fish to
find fish.

Speaker 01 (25:01):
Yep.

Well, 25 years ago, if there weren't a
lot of bunkers, striped basswere rooting around the mud in
the Delaware Bay looking forwhatever they could to eat.
Now there's so much bunker offthe beach.
I just don't think that thethere's a reason for the
stripers to come into theDelaware Bay in the fall because
all that bait is off the beach.
So I think there's a directrelationship, and I'm not saying

(25:25):
that the bunker reduction billwas bad, but what I'm saying is
there's a cause and effect.
And then the same time framethat the striper fishery kind of
collapsed into Delaware Bay andthe Cape May rips, that's when
the offshore bunker populationskyrocketed.

So I really want to argue with you
right now, but that thatactually does line up.
I remember back in the daytaking with the Loran on the
boat.

We can argue the Phillies are down four.

Sorry.
I was afraid of that.
I saw an MLB thing pop up on myphone.
I didn't know.
I was getting texts, and then Ijust looked at it.
That's why I have the redbehind me for the Phillies, but
apparently I should just turnthem back.
Just turn it black.
Yeah.
So I really want to argue.
I remember back in the 90sbeing out on the boat and seeing
Omega literally right off thebeach and just ripping through

(26:19):
the bunker and you know, knowingthat it is I remember like
calling people and trying to getthem moved out and and all that
stuff, and it was right inbetween.
We were, I mean, we were goingbetween them catching the
catching the fish.
Now we now we don't.
Now there's nothing down there.

So okay, I want to argue because it sounds
like you're being nice to Omega,but I'm not arguing that I'm
not being nice to Omega.
I hate them, but I'm also verycautious on what I say because
they have been known, mediapeople, they're they're known to
go after them.
They've got big bank accounts.
I'd have gone after them onfacts in the magazine, but I'm

(26:59):
also very cautious because Ialmost said the R word, because
that's what I believe they'redoing to our inshore populations
of fish.

Speaker 01 (27:06):
Yeah.

But I'm very cautious about going after
them.
But uh I can tell you thisthere earlier this year, earlier
in the summer, there was thisvideo, it was the greatest video
I saw.
It was my buddy, Captain VinnyCalabro from the Carran up in
New York, Jamaica Bay, and abunch of other captains did this
video talking about thedecimation of the bunker
schools, and they were appealingto the president by saying,

(27:30):
these are a this is a Canadiancompany, that they're they're
destroying our ocean.
I was like, finally, somebodygets it, because they went after
the fact that Trump's inoffice, he likes he likes to
battle against other countries,yeah, and this is a Canadian
problem.
So I do know that there arethere are groups of lobbyists
down in Washington for pro-Omegaand anti-Omega, now butting

(27:53):
heads at the White House to tryto get them to do something,
because it is a Canadian companythat has taken all this bunker.
But that's really the onlyanswer.
At the Atlantic State's MarineFisheries Commission, they
ultimately have the decision onhow much quota to dole out to
Omega or to put time and areaclosures in.
I'd I that's what I'd like tosee.
You know, that's something theyhave in the herring fishery.

(28:15):
If we can't attack theirbusiness in federal waters, then
maybe we can make an argumentthat their operation in federal
waters at a time when the whalesare there and the stripers and
the bluefin tuna are there, thatthey're interrupting the
ecosystem.
So there are potentials for usto do something there.
But again, I just think that,you know, I somebody kind of

(28:35):
posted, you know, have thespawning grounds change.
I think there's a lot of thingswith striped bass that have
changed.
It's it's a it's about thebait, it's about the warming
waters.
I think they're doing thingsnow that they haven't done
before.
You know, the guys out ineastern Long Island in Montauk,
they're they're like stripedbass have collapsed.
They don't exist anymore.
I was like, dude, come down asandy hook.

Speaker 01 (28:56):
Yeah.

Because the fishery that you used to have 15
years ago, we didn't have that15 years ago.
They were out there.
Now they're here.
So they're just moving.
And when they move from yourbackyard, you don't see them in
your backyard.
Your ethereal is stripers havecollapsed and we've got to do
something about it.
But I think pragmatically, I'mhoping that these commissioners,

(29:17):
when they meet at the end ofthis month, will try to figure
out something that's reallysensible.
You know, going back to thatvote, I think that you were
asking me my flavor for whichdirection this is going to be.
There are 16 votes at the atthe ASMFC striped ass management
board.
So I know somebody's tallyingup votes now and trying to

(29:37):
figure it out.
But it seems to me that thenorthern region is more in favor
of the 12% reduction, wheremore states in the southern
region are in favor of statusquo.
So it's really going to be, youknow, talk about talk about
politics.
This is fishery science withpolitics.
It's going to be who can getwho can Get that eight or ninth

(30:02):
vote, you know.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (30:03):
It's gonna be a disaster.
It's gonna be interesting.
You know where Maryland'scoming in?
Because they're they alwaysseem to be the opposite of New
Jersey.

Not necessarily on this one.
I don't know.
I can only guess what differentstates are gonna do.
You know, like for example, myguess is right on our border for
us in New York, they have asituation where there's a
difference of opinion in theircommunity.
A lot of surfcasters want the12%.
A lot of people at the west endof New York and into New York

(30:34):
City and Brooklyn, they want thestatus quo, the for hire one
status quo, the tackle shops onestatus quo.
But every state has threecommissioners to lend one vote,
right?
Right.
So the three commissionerscaucus.
If one commissioner wants A andtwo commissioners want B, well,
that two wins.

(30:55):
And that's the vote.
So it's either two to one orthree to nothing.
New York's in a funnysituation.
They're missing a thirdcommissioner right now.
So you've got one commissionerwho has historically gone the
status quo route, and the headof the division of fisheries up
there is leaning towards the 12%cut route.
So if that vote were to go, youknow, 50-50, that's a null

(31:18):
vote.

Now, the but that's an appointed
position, correct?

Every one of those positions is appointed.
The governor selects a personto represent his or her
interests.
Then there's a representativefrom the state fish agency up
there.
It's the New York DEC.
And then there's a third personthat is assigned as a
legislative person.
For example, in Pennsylvania,your third commissioner in

(31:44):
Pennsylvania is AssemblywomanAmanda Gullick, Kulik, I can't
remember her last name.
She's a she's from outside ofPittsburgh.
Okay.
So the legislative position isthe one that's missing in New
York.
But, you know, that was alsosomething I gotta tell you, I
was a little ticked off inPennsylvania.
70 people there.
Dr.
Tim Schaefer's proxy kit, ChrisKuhn was on the webinar

(32:08):
portion.
Tyler Grobowski was sitting inthere running the meeting.

Speaker 01 (32:11):
Yeah.

But two of Pennsylvania's commissioners
weren't even on the webinar.
So they didn't even listen tothe people who are speaking.
And that's the governor'sappointee, Lauren Lusdick, and
the legislative rep.
And I was really disappointedin that because you know I hear
all the time from folks like atthe ASMFC saying, you know,
people in the public don't wantto participate anymore.

(32:32):
Well, that's a two-side, thistwo-way street, isn't it?
So if you're not gonna actuallyeven attend a meeting to
listen, well, that'sdisheartening.
So New Jersey was different.
We had all our commissionersthere, as I remember.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing (32:44):
I I'm not surprised with you know
Pennsylvania.
I'm also not surprised that youhave somebody all the way out
in Pittsburgh that's one of themwho has nothing to do with
probably most of the fishing,unless it's maybe they're
talking about the fishing on theGreat Lakes.
I don't know.

She might have ticked off Governor
Shapiro.
I don't know, and that's herpunishment.
I have no idea.

Yeah, I don't know.
That it is disappointing.
Now, I I had Nick Nick wassaying last week that he had a
couple of issues with theoverall target, and that was a
question also in here that that125%, you know, was one of the
things we kind of covered that.
So I I I kind of understand whythey put the target at 125%.

(33:30):
You know, if you're gonna throwsomething arbitrary, people,
you know, politicians, they likebig round numbers.
But but my question goes backto something else the mortality
rate, which is what this isbased on.
And Nick mentioned that theyadmitted that they have no idea
if the circle hooks did anythingto help.

Well, we knew that from the beginning.
I love Nick, but Nick also gotto grab a hold of him, get him
into a fisheries managementcourse.
Because these are the meetingsI go to, right?
And I reported this a couple ofyears ago.
The last, the very last votewhen the ASMFC was getting ready
to implement this circle hookrule.
Some idiot in the online raiseshis hand.

(34:10):
They say, Yes, Mr.
Hutchins.
And I said, So when this newcircle hook mandate gets
implemented, what's the processfor lowering the mortality rate
from 9% to say seven or six?
Because now we are going to behaving healthier release rates.
So when are we going to reapthe benefits?
And at that moment they said,Well, we're not doing that.

(34:32):
So I warn people all the timeabout this.
When when a when a manager or apolitician asks you to take a
sacrifice, your first responseis, What do I get in return?
Now, I wouldn't do that with afriend or family member, but
when it when you're talkingabout fisheries, if they tell
you you got to do something, Iwant to know what the end reward

(34:53):
is.
Because we have been used totaking these sacrifices, just
take a little bit now.
Take a little bit now, it'sgoing to get better in the in
the future.
Black sea bass is a perfectexample of why that's a flat out
lie.
Because they have beenhammering away at our black sea
bass fisheries for the last 15years, and we are now at over
200% rebuilt.

(35:13):
And they still won't give usany additional days because we
want to be careful here.

Right, right.
Yeah, it's not enough.
It's just uh it's you know, yougive some people a little bit
of power and they'll never giveit up.

And it's I don't even know if it's that
sinister, it's just it's abureaucracy.
It's it's a it's it's just sucha broken bureaucracy.
And the ASMFC right now, in myopinion, is is seriously flawed.
And and a lot of stuff, youknow, I might sound like a jerk,
but uh, and and this includesPennsylvanians too.
Nobody likes New Jersey.
You know, it goes back to theEagles.
Nobody likes us, we don't care.

(35:46):
But nobody likes New Jersey.
So these a lot of these rulescome down, they're arbitrary
against New Jersey.
For example, you want a 12%cut?
Well, let our division of fishand wildlife meet with all the
stakeholders and figure out thebest way to take a 12% cut.
Take a little bit from south,take a little bit from the
north, maybe a little out hereand a little bit.
We can come up with it.
And ASMFC says, no, no, no, no.
You we're gonna lump you inwith a region with that includes

(36:09):
Connecticut and Rhode Island.

unknown (36:10):
Right.

And you're all gonna have to close down
your December fishery.
So what I'm asking is acrossthe board, if you were don't
give me phony stats.
Across the board, if you wereto take a 12% reduction and lose
the month of December in allthose states, I bet you a
reduction is about three or fourpercent in Connecticut.
It's gonna be about 25% in NewJersey.

(36:31):
That's the fact.
Yeah, so this is a brokensystem, and I I think it needs
to be fixed.
And but you know, that's that'swhy we're in this situation
where we are right now.

Yeah, and that it's that it's that
time frame is just a killer.
I mean, it and it to yourpoint, it doesn't kill it
doesn't kill Massachusetts.

Jim Hutchinson Jr (36:51):
Massachusetts won't even here's the thing.
So just so everybody knows, ifyou were to do Maine to
Massachusetts, their closurewon't be in December.
They're going to have to take a41-day no-harvest closure in
wave four, which is July andAugust.
So that's when their fishery isat its peak in Massachusetts,

(37:15):
is July and August.
So that's why that's part ofthe reason for this separating
of regions.
So Massachusetts, NewHampshire, Maine, but especially
Massachusetts, if you thinkabout it, they have to take 41
days and not harvest stripers inJuly and August.
And and I and I'd argue allthe, they'll tell you what,

(37:37):
they're having a hell of aproblem up there right now
during the summer months withthe sandbar sharks, the brown
sharks, not just the greatwhites, but the sharks are all
over the place.
Guys cannot get striped bassback to the boat fast enough to
bring them in the boat.

Speaker 01 (37:51):
Right.

So to me, it's like, well, then you should
probably take the 39-dayno-targeting closure because if
you target striped bass, they'rejust going to go into the
shark's belly, and yourmortality rate's probably closer
to 25%.

Speaker 01 (38:04):
Right, right.

So, yeah, there's a lot of questions, a
lot of a lot of data, a lot ofquestions, a lot of stats, and
that's where we stand.

Let me ask you this did it come up
at all the onus tag program?
And and if they were toeliminate that, would that do
anything to the no?

Because that's that's the commercial.
Now, a lot of anglers in otherstates want New Jersey to give
up our bonus program.
They they hate it.
But that's our commercialquota.
So if they take a 12%, if this12% reduction goes across the
board, commercial andrecreational, the way it's
supposed to, New Jersey, NewJersey's commercial quota right

(38:47):
now is 200,000 pounds.
Yeah.
So if we took a cut, we wouldgo down to 176,000 pounds.
That commercial quota is whatwe base our striped bass bonus
program on.
So we have tags and they issueenough tags and they never go up
close to their quota.
We've probably used at most 30%of that 200,000 pound quota.

(39:12):
Right.
So while the other states wouldlike to go after that, that's
our commercial quota.
Our state of New Jersey cantheoretically do re within
reason what they want with it.
Now, let me give you anotherexample.
Massachusetts, I know a lot ofMassachusetts guys are the ones
that are arguing hottest aboutNew Jersey's bonus program.
Massachusetts currentcommercial harvest is 683,773

(39:37):
pounds.

Speaker 01 (39:37):
Yeah.

So if they were to take a 12% cut, they
would go down to 601,000 pounds.
Now, anybody in Massachusettswith a pulse can go get a
striped bass commercial permit.
So you can not just be anangler, you can go out and be a
commercial permit holder.
Yeah.
And you can catch 35 inch andover stripers and sell them at
the dock.
Now, right now, the wayMassachusetts commercial harvest

(40:01):
works is you don't have to putthe tag in your striped bass
until you're at the marketselling your fish.
One of the changes that's inthis proposal, as well as the
12% reduction, is a mandate thatit's got to go through a vote,
that either you tag the fish assoon as you land them in your
boat or you tag them before youoffload them at the dock.

(40:24):
In theory, right now, Rich, youand I can go up to
Massachusetts in July.
I'll pay the commercial permitfee.
We'll trail my boat up, takethe week off, and every day
we'll be commercial striperfishermen.

unknown (40:36):
Right.

We'll bring them home, we'll offload them at
the dock.
You take two to the truck, I'llsell the other eight.
We'll go out tomorrow morning,we'll keep selling fish and keep
tagging.
We will make a profit and beable to come back with a bunch
of 35 inch and over stripedbass.
How Massachusetts thinks ourhow anybody thinks our stripe
ass bonus program is corruptwhen you've got that going on?
It's beyond me.

And and I don't think it's corrupt.
Let me just make that clear.
My question is if we were tosay you can't use the that
program during during November,December, what does that do to
our mortality?

So that's going to be it too.
So the one caveat.
When there's a recreationalclosure in New Jersey, so let's
say next next December isclosed, yeah, then we will not
be able to use our bonus programduring the closure.

But what if we don't close it?
What or I should say, what ifwe were to not close targeting?
Well, no, because that would beat the harvesting.
What if we only got rid of thebonus tag for October through
December?

We don't get any benefit.
There's no okay.
No, you don't get any benefitbecause that's a commercial.
The only the only caveat beingis whenever striped bass is
closed for recreationals nextyear, be it harvest or no
target, we cannot use our bonusprogram during that time frame.

Speaker 01 (41:58):
Yeah.
Okay.

So that's the one caveat we've been we've
been sent.
Okay.
Yeah, I I brought it up thoughwith some friends in management.
I said, well, then inMassachusetts, whenever their
recreational fishery is closed,then there shouldn't be any
commercial fishing either,because too many recreational
fishermen pretend to becommercial striper.
Right.
So so that's something that I'dI'd love to see.

(42:19):
That won't happen.
Well, I would love to see theseare look.
I'm never going to be on afisheries council.
Nobody wants me, and I'm notgoing to be very I'm going to be
an idiot.

But you're not going to be
diplomatic enough.
I'm plenty diplomatic.

unknown (42:33):
Yeah.

Oh, is that it?
Sure.
Really very diplomatic.
I I just keep I I just want tolike rack my brain and see what
makes sense.
But you know, it's rare thatsomething that makes sense
actually happens.
You know what I mean?
And I I get the whole bonus tagthing, but I'll tell you what,
Jim, I know guys that are upnorth and they are commercial,

(42:56):
and all they do is just trolleverybody because they'll go out
and they'll catch their fishand then they'll post the the
kill at the dock, and it's justloaded with these big things.
And they're like, Yeah, I mademoney, paid for the gas, paid
for you know a whole month offishing this week.
And they, you know, they wentcommercial fishing for five
days.

Yeah, I don't mean to pick a fight with
those guys, but you know what?
The somebody else drew firstblood.
So once once people startedbeing overly critical, look,
you've got these people that arein this association whose name
I will not say, they're goingafter New Jersey and they're
going after the bonus programbecause New Jersey anglers get
to use a portion of thecommercial permit, the

(43:34):
commercial quota to catch 24 toless than 28 inch, primarily
male and smaller estuary fish,right?
And guys are going nuts onthat.
But you know what they don'tsay anything about is
Pennsylvanians on the DelawareRiver between the Salem River
and the Calhoun Street Bridgecan keep a slot fish at a time
when New Jersey Anglers can'tkeep any fish.

(43:56):
And in Delaware, they've got asummer slot of 22 to 26 inch
fish.
Now, I don't want to pick onDelaware or Pennsylvania either.
Every state should have its ownbit of autonomy.
But New Jersey voluntarilycloses the Delaware during the
spring spawn.
And again, we get nothing, nocredit for that.
New Jersey voluntarily closesthe Back Bay Striper fishery in

(44:17):
January and February to protectwinter holdover fish.
We don't get any credit forthat.
And it's always heaping moundsof poop sent down to New Jersey.
And that's why New Jerseyanskind of get a little bit upset.
What I'm happy about is myPennsylvania friends, the folks
that come into New Jersey tosaltwater fish, I'm hearing it.
I heard it in Bristol.
Status quo is the answer.
So that's the answer.

(44:37):
You know, that's that seems tobe what two states want.
You know, I'd I'd like to seehow, you know, I'd like to see
how these states vote.
You know, I want to see howthese states vote in terms of
the responses they got from thepublic.
Like I said, I haven't weighedin on a position.
Both both both concepts havemerit, but I think when you lay
out the data, it's really kindof, you know, why are we doing

(45:01):
this?

Yeah.
I mean, I'm very clear on mystand.
Uh it's status quo for me.
And then look, if it changes,it changes.
But it seems to me that in 2027we're going to have a much
better idea as what's going onthan than what we have right
now.
Just my thought.

Sorry, I was just looking at a great
comment.
I'm kind of looking at thesecomments as they come in.
Yeah.
If a shark takes a striper, isthe mortality rate lower than if
you used a circle?
I love it.
Yeah, I think it is.
Yes.

Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it can that that's theway that you can use stats to
say whatever you want.

You do stats, Rich.
Come up with a stat to supportthat argument.

Well, it's it's very simple.
If the shark takes it, it hasnothing to do with us, so we
can't get blamed.
You know, that the shark wasalready in the water.
I wonder if we should just havea a big a big uh shark fishing
thing up there to help thestocks, you know.
Some big tournaments up there.
Get rid of some of the sharksfor them.

Well, that'd be something, you know.
There's there's there's federallegislation called uh about
shark depredation because it'sit started down in Florida in
recent years and it's reallybad, but now it's getting bad
along the upper northeast,especially up in Massachusetts.
We see it in our tuna fisheryoff of Jersey right now.
I mean, a tuna fishery is beinginundated with people not being

(46:18):
able to bring their tuna onboard because of the sharks.

Speaker 01 (46:20):
Yeah.

But you know, for the last 15 years, you
can blame the humane societyfor this.
It was like demonizing sharkfishing, and you know, you can't
eat sharks.
And you know, we have we haveprotected sharks to the point
where we removed a sustainableshark fishery.
I'm not one to eat a lot ofsharks.
I like Mako, but you know, weare part of the ecosystem.

(46:42):
And people that say humanbeings aren't part of the
ecosystem, I really ticks meoff.
You can have a sustain, we canhave sustainable harvest on a
lot of these fisheries.

Yeah.

And and I'd like to see us get back to that
again.

I'd at least like to see the spiny
dogfish go back on the menu.
That's the most ridiculousexample ever.
But I used to I used to fishfor shark.
That was my thing.
Oh, really?
And I I and I got tattoos ofsharks on my back for because
that was what I always loveddoing, and that's all I did for
years.
And I stopped because of allthat, and I don't know, I don't

(47:17):
know why.
I still miss it.
I still miss catching a Makoand you know, never landed a
thresher though.
That that always disappointedme.

But well, it's funny the uh you mentioned
the spiny dogfish because spinydogfish over in the UK, their
spiny dogfish stock isconsidered overfished.

Speaker 01 (47:36):
Yeah.

So for years, the UK was getting our
spiny dogfish for fish andchips.
It was a nicer relationship.
We were taking our spinydogfish, commercial fishermen
were happy, shipping themoverseas, everything was great.
Then some environmentalistsstarted going to protect the
spiny dogfish, and now we lostour fishery.
And the commercial fishermen inNew Jersey, once it reopened,

(47:58):
they lost their market becausethe UK fish and chips folks
said, Oh, we got to find anotherplace for fish and chips.
We don't want your spiniesanymore.

Speaker 01 (48:05):
Right.

But now the environmentalists have shut down
a spiny dogfish fishery inEngland, so now we're we're able
to move some more spinydogfish.
Here's the funny thing in thecommercial sector, they can
trade quota.
You know, it's like New Jerseywill call up North Carolina and
say, uh, hey, you know, we don'thave many bluefish right now,
and and most of the bluefish areoff of Carolina.

(48:27):
You want my bluefish quota?
I'll trade you for your spinydogfish quota, and it's like a
trade.

Speaker 01 (48:33):
Right.

So that's something that happened last
year, and we might be seeing itagain this year.
And folks can come down hard onthe commercial fishermen all
they want.
And you know, I I when it comesto gear and allocation, we have
battles, but in terms ofkilling more spiny dogfish, I'll
just sit back and say that's agood trade.

Yeah, I don't I don't mind.
I mean, look, if you want to ifyou want to get a movement
together to get, I mean, justgrab every tog fisherman along
the entire east coast and youwill you will have all the
support you need to open upspiny dogfish wide again.

Last year, I'm standing on the beach at
Manasquan.
We're getting into my favoriteseason where I just disappear.
If you ask me to do a podcastnext month, I'll say no way.
Because I just spur of themoment, I'm going.
So anyway, I'm in this prettygood striper bite at Manasquan
last November at sunset.
And we're all finished up andwe've got our rods over our
shoulders.
We're kind of talking about it.
We all from the distance, wesee the boil.

(49:29):
It's like, boys, we're gonnaget another shot at this.
This is great.
And we watch this boil, watchthis boil come in, watch it come
in, and we start throwingcasts.
It was a spiny dogfish blitz onpeanut bunker and sand heels
because we all landed spinydogfish.
I was like, that has not I'venot seen that before.
So I turned it into a water.

Yeah, yeah.

That it's time to pack up.
When you see spiny dogfishblitzing on bait in the wash, oh
my god, it's the biggestdisappointment you've ever
experienced.

That's terrible.
That is that's just that's justrude.
That that's that's God sayingyou should be at home right now,
Jim, and I'm gonna get youthere.
It worked.
Well, listen, hey, I Iappreciate you coming on.
I feel I feel really concernedbecause I I I just don't trust.
I just don't trust the way thatthings are gonna are gonna go.

(50:18):
And I I'm afraid that we'regonna see something happen in
December.
And I I just think it's notnecessary yet.
It's not to say it won't be atsome point, it's possible.
I just don't think that we'rethere yet.
And I think it's you know, youmade the comment a couple years
ago.
Be careful about wishing forthe regulations on sheep's head

(50:38):
because we don't know anythingabout the numbers.
We haven't researched them yet.
And be careful what you wishfor.
You you're very good at sayingbe careful what you wish for.
I was taught this.
Yeah, and I but I think that'swhat we're looking at right now.
It's an overreaction tosomething that might happen.
You know, it's like a cop can'tarrest you for what he thinks
you might do next week unless hehas evidence that you're

(51:00):
planning to do it.
And we don't necessarily havethat evidence that this fishery
is going to collapse.
I don't see any.

I'll give you two perfect examples of what
we're talking about.
So, yeah, I know the state ofNew Jersey is talking about
spinach uh uh sheep's headmanagement, and I think it's a
good thing to discuss it, andthen you figure it out.
I have seen it in my some of myarea waters where we have a
localized depletion.
Once a few of us get on thesheep's head, they all of a
sudden disappear, they're gone.
Well, we got to wait for thenext movement coming.
So they're gonna figure it out,and it's gonna bring

(51:29):
stakeholders together to havethis discussion because there is
no fishery management plan.
But you know, that's that's thething we're looking at.
You mentioned beforeenforcement, and a lot of folks
now are, you know, there's whatI hear the biggest proponents
right now, the the mostpassionate supporters of a 12%

(51:51):
reduction, when I say, well,then we should all stop fishing
for them for that period oftime.
Let's take the shorter closure.
It's like, no, I'm not gonnakeep fishing, I'm gonna keep
catching and releasing, butyou're the one that says
stripers are in trouble.
Yeah, so 50% of the mortalityis coming from a harvest guy,
and 50% is coming from you, thenwe should all do this, right?
I'm not gonna do it.

(52:11):
And I was like, well, then doyou really think there's a
problem with stripers, or do youjust want to attack the harvest
guys?
Are you trying to turn thisinto a pure catch and release
fishery?
And I know there's a segment ofthe population would like that
done, but there's one argumentthey're using is they're saying
no targeting is unenforceable.
And that's not true because Iknow enforcement officers are

(52:34):
issuing fines for people thatare fishing in the back bays of
New Jersey using a Rappela X-rapfor white perch in the winter.
Yeah, no, they're not.
You're going for a stripedbass.
The problem is they're issued aticket, they go to court, and
they're thrown out of court.
So it's not that it'sunenforceable.
The enforcement officers canissue the tickets, it's not
being prosecuted because of laxlaws in our courtrooms, and

(52:56):
because people with fisheriesviolations are going in the same
court of law as meth heads andstreet walkers and and other
people.

unknown (53:02):
Sure.

And now that's got to be fixed as well.
So I don't I don't buy that.
I I just think that we reallyhave to get to a point if we
want to sustain this fishery inthe future.
If you really believe thatstriped bass should be pure
catch and release only andnobody should ever kill a
striped bass again, you're inyour element because this is
your fight and you brought it tothe table, and we're getting
ready for that nuclear option,and God bless you.

(53:24):
But if you really want to havea sustainable fishery in the
future with harvest and catchand release and the best
possible fishery, then we shouldall be sitting together and
talking about this and havingthese discussions at the
management table, similarperhaps to what's being
discussed about Sheep's headwithout a gun to our head.
Right.
You know, so I think that's gotto be our goal for the future

(53:45):
is bringing all the differentvarying uh beliefs and
viewpoints to one table andreally talk about what we expect
from this fishery.

So well, it'll be interesting.
When when do you think we'regonna know where where we're
gonna stand with this?

The Wednesday of I looked it up the
other day.
The meeting is I think the 27ththrough the 30th.
I think Wednesday, October 29this the strike bass meeting.
That's going to be in Dover,Delaware.

But that's not where they get make
the decision, right?
Doesn't it?
That will be the after.

Oh, that is that will be the day when they
decide on the 12% reduction.
Then what happens is if the 12%reduction is approved, now the
two regions then have to gettogether and figure out how
they're going to meet out their12% reduction in what waves and
in what form.
So it's a two-prong processthere.
Okay.

(54:38):
Now, if if it fails, if it juststays status quo, then we then
we go again.
And now we have to wait.
We'll we'll we'll you know,wait until MRIP numbers next
year, we'll wait until the stockassessment is done in 27,
whatever it might be.

I'd like to see that.
I'd like to see that.
And I'd like to see someimprovements on it.
And and and by the way, theyneed to get more of those
satellite tags going.
It was mentioned in the chat.
It would be great to see someof those in the northern
Chesapeake, so we can see wherethose fish are going if they're
heading out to the Delaware andout to the ocean.

So let me answer that question.
We don't have the we don't havethe technology for that just
yet.
And here's why the um Becauseit's insure.
Because it's well, there's two,yes, that's one thing, and it's
also salt fresh.
So the problem with the minipat mini PSAT devices from
wildlife computers is they don'tplay well in fresh water.
So we actually lose data, welose tags, they stop working in

(55:31):
freshwater.
That has hindered us becausewhen we sat down to talk about
how to do the satellite tagging,we wanted to have fish go up
the Hudson or up the Chesapeakeand come out.
Can't do that.
Secondarily, what you just saidis our satellite tracking
doesn't work so well in anestuary.
We've tried it in theChesapeake several times, but we

(55:51):
don't get great numbers becauseit's very difficult to kind of
triangulate everything.
The the data itself that'sstored in the tag, it doesn't
react well to being in thatclose confined area of land,
right?
Open ocean for the satellitetags.
For the satellite tags, yes.

So when they when they tag
redfish, for example, when theydo a release of redfish in
Florida, they they'll releasethem in a certain area and they
have like stations.
Those are the tag passes thestation, that's where they do
it.
That's where they do it.

So that is one concept that we should
probably look at.
Those are uh acoustictransmitters, right?

Speaker 01 (56:29):
Right, right.
Yeah.

So um I know Rutgers and Stockton and
Monmouth University have alldone and continue to do uh
acoustic uh implants.
They have a variety of soundersup and down the coast.
And we're working with uh NewEngland states as well.
So there's these um there'sthese acoustic receivers out
there.
Well, and we've done this.
I did it with the BerkeleyStriper Club a few years ago.
Catch a striper, make anincision, implant the acoustic

(56:53):
transmitter, sew that fish backup again, pat them off, and send
them on his way.

Speaker 01 (56:58):
Right.

What we're hoping to do too is what I would
ideally like to do is grab oneof our stripers for the
Northeast Stripe Bass study, getone of those 40-inch fish, put
the green streamer tag in, putthe mini pat device in, and put
an acoustic transmitter inthere.
Um ideally, I want to be ableto do that in the future.

(57:19):
So, in theory, where thoseinshore acoustic receivers are
located, it'll pick up thatstriper, and then I can try to
ground truth what I'm findingfrom my satellite tracking when
it gets outside.
So if I can ground truth itsinshore-offshore migration, that
would help me better figure outif these mini-pack devices are
working real well with stripebats.

That would be great.
We need more fundamentals.
Let's get that funding.
That's what it always comesdown to.
And then I'll I'll go out andhelp you catch them.
Thank you.

Appreciate that.
Anytime.

All right.
Well, hey, thanks for comingon.
Uh we're gonna, I guess, getback and watch the Phillies with
a massive comeback unless thegame's over.
Really?
Massive comeback?
You're just I like it.
I'm really not.
If you saw my social mediaposts, I said we were done over
the weekend.
So it was depressing.
Yeah, yeah.

(58:12):
It's uh last year all overagain.
Thanks, Jim.
Thanks for coming on.
Uh everyone, thanks for tuningin.
This is gonna be out on the uhthe podcast.
Uh I'm gonna try to do it earlyagain this week.
I've been putting them uponline a little quicker than
normal.
They usually go out onThursdays.
Hopefully, this is be out uhnot tomorrow, but the next day.
Um so thanks again.

(58:32):
We'll be back next week.
Not sure on the guests yet, butuh hey, we're we're coming into
prime fishing time, so we'll beback.
We'll be talking fishing, we'llbe talking salt water next
week.
That much I do know.
So until next time, everyone,get out there, get on the water,
and get some tight lines.

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