EP 55: From Kayaks To Head Boats, Your Questions Answered

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
George Bucci (00:00):
The activity of these fish is just a shorter
period of time, but they're justas active in that short period
of time.
They're very aggressive in 30degree water as they are in 43
degree water, but it's just asmaller window.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (00:16):
Hello and welcome back to the Fat Dad
Fishing Show.
I'm your regular host, RichNatoli.
And tonight's going to be oneof those episodes where we do
the QA.
We get a lot of questions thatcome in during episodes, after
episodes.
I get a lot of texts, emails,comments.
Uh, and we want to try to pulltogether some of these answers,

(00:36):
but I can't do it myself.
So reached out to an all-starcrew of people to come on.
So we're going to have ontonight George Gucci.
We're going to have Paul, Mr.
Great Bay Outfitters on, andPhilly Girl Fishing Kristen on.
And uh I think we've got itpretty well covered there.
We've got the surf, we've gotthe boats, we've got the head

(00:56):
boats and the charters, andwe've got the kayaks covered and
uh pretty much every species.
And I'm sure Paul's gonna hopethat somebody asks questions
about Sheep's head.
I won't, but he might.
You know he wants it.
So uh we're gonna roll intothat pretty quick.
I'm gonna go through thesponsors real quick, and we're
gonna start off with Paul andGreat Bay Outfitters.
If you're not aware, they arethe original, the primary

(01:19):
sponsor of this podcast and livestream.
Uh so thank you, Paul, forthat.
Uh Raider Road in Tuckerton, myhome shop for kayak fishing and
outfitting my kayak.
And when I get down that way,whether I need something or not,
I tend to buy it.
I can't tell you how many extrauh rod holders I have that I

(01:39):
really don't need because Idon't carry as many rod holders
as I have.
But if for some reason theybreak off, I've got extras.
But uh Paul is carrying native,he's carrying old town, he's
got the crust.
We've got to ask him about thatwhen it comes on.
He's got the new line now inthe shop, which is pretty
exciting, uh, especially forthose that like the really
tricked out kayaks.

(02:01):
Uh, so yeah, Radio RoadTuckerton, New Jersey, if you
need anything kayak related,including if you want to buy a
used kayak.
People sell them through Paul.
So he he's selling used kayaksall the time.
You can you can pick up variousbrands that are not necessarily
the brands that he carries,brand new.
Then we have Quad Stay Tunewith Kevin Driscoll is your guy.
If you have a Toyota truck,Tacoma, Tundra, 4Runner, some

(02:24):
versions of the Lexus.
You need a tune for yourengine, you get more torque
horsepower and better shiftingon the highways.
So you're gonna get uh, youknow, not only you're gonna be
able to tow that boat a loteasier, but you're gonna get
more performance out of thoseengines, which admit it or not,
you know, you gotta admit it,Toyotas have great engines in
them.
I know people say, no, it'sAmerican.

(02:45):
Well, look at Toyota, becauseToyotas are great trucks.
And then real estate for me,Southeastern Pennsylvania.
You can reach out to me at267-270-1145.
Don't do it during the show.
I won't answer.
It's on silent.
I remembered this time.
But yeah, residential realestate in southeastern
Pennsylvania, I can help youout.
And all that said, I'm going tostart bringing people on, and

(03:08):
we're going to roll into thispretty quickly.
So if you have questions, anyquestion, you can ask any
question you want.
Doesn't mean we're going toanswer it.
And I'm saying that to mybrother mainly because it's
probably going to be someinappropriate stuff being thrown
in that chat.
But and I see my nephew inthere as well.
So we'll we'll see about that.
But everyone, thanks forjoining in the chat.

(03:28):
And I'm going to bring on firstGeorge Bucci.
George, good to see you.
Going on, Richard.
I'm excited for the I lovethese.
I love these episodes.
So let's let's hit yourexpertise.
Century fishing dude here, butsurf and boat, striped bass king
of this this episode.

I mean, that's what I do.
I like I like to chase, I chasethe bass.

unknown (03:51):
Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (03:52):
And then we have your opposite
coming on right now.
We have Paul at Great BayOutfitters who calls the striped
bass the striped carp.
Anything kayak related, sheep'shead, tog, you're gonna have
well, Paul.
You're you're gonna fish foranything really, but you're
really you really love thesheep's head.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters (04:09):
Oh, I do.
Love sheep's head.
Sheepsead and Tog is probably80% of what I do.

Yeah, okay.
And kayak, yeah, anything kayakfishing.
And then we have we haveKristen from Philly Girl Fishing
on.
Kristen, it's been a whilesince you've been on this.

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl F (04:23):
A long time.

Yeah, it's great to see you.
Kristen is one of the betterpeople that I have fished with
on the charter boats.
And her claim to fame as hasbeen brought up when she's not
on by several people, is thatshe will somehow steal your spot
on the boat and you won't evennotice it because she's so damn
polite about it.

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl (04:44):
You know, just come over, I think,
you know, just make it make ajoyful noise, you know, just
have a good time.

Yeah, you just come over, you say hi,
how's it going?
And you you don't even noticethe rod in her hand, and next
thing you know, she's fishingyour spot and you're you're on
the other side.
So yeah, it'll happen.
And then she'll pull up a fishwhen you were skonked for the
last 25 minutes.
So yeah, so everyone, thanksfor coming on.
I I'm looking forward to this.
I think it's gonna be fun.
And before we get started,Paul, you want to just real

(05:13):
quick mention the new line ofboats that you have in?

Paul - Great Bay Outfitte (05:16):
Sure.
So pretty exciting.
Cresscraft, Cresscraft kayaks,uh great boats.
They've been traditionallypaddle boats.
There were no dealers in NewJersey, believe it or not.
So I jumped on the opportunity.
The really cool thing aboutCresscraft, uh uh Creston kayaks
is they have a new line.
It's a micro skiff.
So you can hang uh uh a sixhorsepower gas outward that

(05:38):
will, man, she's gonna zoom.
They're clocking like 18 to 20miles an hour with six
horsepower to Hot Two.
And there's another variationof that microskiff that accepts
electric motors like a Newportand K300.
I've kind of transitioned from,you know, I lived in Ryan Bay
for a long, long time, kind ofenjoying the backwaters now.

(06:00):
I think that microskiff isgonna do really, really well
around here.
It's got a six-inch draft, andit's got a actually a pretty
sharp entry.
So it's it's it's a legit boat.
It's it's not like you know,some crap out of China.
You know, Crestcraft Crescentis a US-based company and
they're all manufactured here.

(06:20):
So I'm extremely excited aboutit.
It's just this new evolution ofof kayaks.
You know, motorization is areal trend in kayaking, and and
I'm embracing it.
It's pretty cool.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing
that out on the water.
I'm definitely getting to thepoint in my life where I love
kayak fishing, but it'd be niceto have a micro skiff, you know,
something like that, because Ijust don't have it in me to put
in 20 miles on the on the waterevery day like I used to.
Yeah, so all right, let's jumpin.
We have we have a bunch ofquestions actually in the chat

(06:52):
already, but there's one that isin the chat and also one that I
got through text today,actually, from somebody who was
on social media and noticedsomething.
And George, you're gonna haveto put a story behind this
because this is specifically foryou, the surf guy.
And there's a reason thisquestion was asked.
But the question is what's themost important thing to remember

(07:14):
when you're packing up from aday surf fishing?

Don't put all your stuff in your truck.

Yeah.

All right, now give the background.
Well, I it's been it's been agrind.
This fall's been a grind.
And I've been I was off a lotmore days this November than I
actually worked.
I think I worked eight daysthis I took vacation time, so I
wanted to grind.
And I was coming to the end ofthe grind here.
It was Black Friday.

(07:41):
I had something to do with mywife, but I I had time in the
morning to fish.
So of course I drove an hourand a half north and fished the
beach, and there was some fish,and I got caught up with time,
realized what time it was.
I was late, I was going to belate, my wife was gonna be
angry.
I ran to my truck and I didsomething that I don't ever do.

(08:01):
I laid my rod against my truckon the passenger side, which I
never do.
And then I went around to thedriver's side and took my belt
off, took my dry top off, tookmy waiters off, threw them in my
truck, my rod was out of sight,out of mind, and I jumped in
the truck and drove away.

Yeah.

And you want to give a little background as to
what exactly that setup is forthe that was a Century S1
10-foot with a VSX2, probablyabout sixteen, seventeen hundred
dollars.
Yeah.
So I was about 30 minutes downthe road, realized like a brick
hit me in the head.
Oh my god, I forgot my rod.

(08:41):
I called a buddy who was stillon the beach.
He ran up to my parking spot.
There was about 30 guys there.
I would say 20 of them wouldnot have returned that rod.
And he said it was gone.
So I pretty much blasted it onthe internet and hoped for the
best.
And then today, and when I hadwritten it all off, I got a
message from a woman who said, Ithink my husband has your rod.

(09:05):
And she gave me the number andI called him, and he said, Boy,
you are one lucky guy.
He goes, I I should have somegood mojo now.
So I said, You're gonna get allthe good carving coming, and
and and then some.
Um you know, so I I'll pick itup on Thursday.
You know, yeah, it was it wasit's been a painful three days,
man.
Not I was just disappointed inmyself, you know.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fi (09:28):
Right.
Well, good good job not blamingyour wife.
Yeah, um, no, nobody to blamebut myself.
Um, but the moral of the story,the best thing to do is to do
the same thing every time,right?

Yeah, and I mean I've even gotten into the habit
of even after I think I haveeverything packed, I walk around
the truck because I can't tellyou how many times I've laid
things up on the side of mytruck on the bed, like my phone,
you know, maybe a couple otherthings, and just laid them there
and then threw all my stuff inthe truck and then jumped in.
I mean, I actually I left myphone one time and drove miles

(10:01):
down the road, and I went backand it was in the middle of an
intersection, and I don't knowhow it didn't get run over, but
it didn't.

Yeah, I I've done it, I've personally
done it with uh with GoPros andand other cameras similar to
GoPros.
I'll call them GoPros, but theyweren't.
But yeah, I did it down at OBX,and if you know down there, you
can drive for three hours andstill be on the island.
And I'm about 45 minutes, I waslike, oh my god, I left them in
the bed and I went back and thebed's empty.

Kristen McKee - Philly Gi (10:28):
Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (10:28):
So luckily it's just one straight
road.
So I just kept going backlooking for these little tiny
cameras, and the I it was onecamera.
I found it on the side of theroad.
I was lucky.
It had a broken lens, but thelenses are only like five bucks.
So yeah, thank God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
So there, there's the firstone.
Yeah, I do think one of themost important, and I'm gonna

(10:49):
extend this.
So, you know, your your pointis do the same thing every time.
Make it a process so that youknow you you automatically go
through it.
You've you've went off of thatbecause you were late.

Yeah.

And I also think, you know, just to
extend it, that's what Ilearned kayak fishing and
driving up to two or three hoursaway.
I can't tell you how well youguys have seen it online,
especially if you're in anykayak groups.
Oh, I drove two hours and Ileft my drive at home.
The one thing that I did is Idrove I drove down to uh Cape

(11:22):
May County and I left my PFDbehind.
And most people would just gofishing without it.
I will not, so I had to end upbuying a brand new PFD before I
went out.
So I had to wait for a shop toopen that had one that that fit.
So yeah.
So preparation and and routine,I think, are are are big ones.
Definitely.

(11:43):
All right.
So this this next one, Paul,this is actually in the chat.
I'm gonna put it up there andand guys, I we're gonna start
with Paul.
Anybody that wants to jump incan jump in.
Let me find this here.
Wow, we're getting a lot ofquestions in here.
All right.
Justin from Downingtown here,um, a neighbor of mine.

(12:04):
What's the best way to getstarted with kayaking for
someone who has never done it?
That's a great question.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitt (12:10):
That's a silly question.
You come into great bigoutfitters.
What are you talking about?
No, this is uh the best way.
Uh honestly, uh you don't wantto start with a big box store.
You need to go into a dealerwho is independent who has
experience in in kayak fishing.
Uh, because these these boatsare getting more and more

(12:32):
expensive.
And the last thing you want todo is spend several thousand
dollars on a boat that doesn'tfit your needs or doesn't fit
your your fishing or the watersthat you fish.
Perfect example, I had acustomer come in here uh over
the weekend thinking he wasgonna walk out with a PDL 120,
and he ended up walking out witha big water because of where he

(12:55):
intended to fish.
So demoing a boat is veryimportant.
We're all built differently.
Uh these these kayaks are liketools, you know, and and they're
meant for a specific job.
So if you're fishing out front,if you're fishing open water,
you know, maybe a trial triangledesign is is better for you.
If you're primarily uh a lake,pond, you know, river fisherman,

(13:16):
maybe a tunnel boat is betterfor you.
You know, length has uh a lotto do with it.
So I think it's reallyimportant to first, you know,
determine your budget, what canyou afford, you know.
Like, don't do this, fake ittill you make it stuff.
Like if you can afford $2,000,you can afford $2,000.
Demo boat.
Um there aren't very manydealers that that have

(13:37):
waterfront properties.
You know, I'm very fortunate tohave one that we have docks in
the back.
So I can put two, three, fourboats, and then you can try them
yourself.
But I think those are the mostimportant things is is establish
a reasonable budget, figure outwhere you're gonna be, where
you intend to fish the boat oruse the boat and try it out.
You know, uh I'm 6'1, 190pounds.

(13:59):
That boat's gonna behavedifferently for somebody who's
you know 270 pounds.
It's it's important to try themout.

Yeah, I I actually almost bought a
Hobie without trying it.
I figured I'll just get a PA.
And I I was fortunate that Iran across some.
This was before Great BayOutfitters existed.
And I'm on the I'm out near thewater, and a guy says, Hey, I
said, I'm thinking about buying.
He says, Hey, jump on it andtry it.
I hated it, it immediately hurtmy knees.

(14:30):
And it's not that there'sanything wrong with it, it's
just it didn't work with myknees.
That that flutter kick, thatpush instead of the cycle
motion.
So that would have been about afour thousand dollar mistake
right there.

Uh yeah, that's what I'm talking
about.
And we're we're all builtdifferently, and it's it's
really important before youspend a ton of money, sit in
one, you know, try it out.
It and you think it may be foryou and just may not be.

Right.
And and really determine whatyou're going to use it for
primarily.
You know, everybody says, youknow, I'll give you an example.
If you look at Old Town, peoplesay, well, the 120 is the most
popular.
I'm going to get the 120.
120 is great.
And they're like, oh, I canstand a fish.
Okay.
If you're fishing an inlet, ifyou're fishing saltwater, you're
probably not standing.
You've got too many currents.

(15:15):
And you you should really learna little bit about stability of
these kayaks because peoplealways say you can't tip it.
There isn't a true kayak that'sbeen made that I can't tip in
about three seconds.
And there are the there aredifferent types of stability.
There's primary stability,that's you're not moving, you
can stand.
And then there's secondary.
And secondary is you're movingand it's more stable if it has

(15:36):
better secondary.
And you look at the big waterversus the 120.
The 120 is outstanding primary,not as great secondary, and
it's it's the opposite for thebig water, which is why I have a
big water, because I fish heavycurrents and I do run inlets,
and I want to have somethingthat's going to be more stable

(15:57):
when that heavy flow of water iscoming through, especially you
know, even around bridges andeverything.
Mine gets more stable, whereassome get less stable when that
water's flowing over that hull.
All right.
That's that's a uh good answer,Paul.
I do agree.
Get out there on the water andtry it, because otherwise you
really could make a very bigmistake.
And it's not like back in theday where you can buy it for you

(16:19):
know two grand and sell it for$2,200 a week later.

No, those things are over.
You know, COVID is over.
And these boats are gettingmore and more expensive.
I'm outfitting an XDR right nowthat's running about $15,000.

Yeah.
How much?

Paul - Great Bay Outfi (16:34):
$15,000.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (16:36):
Good lord.
Okay.
I'm not getting that.
I'm not even exaggerating.
Oh my god.
I I am not getting that at all.
At all.
All right.
So let me let me so, Kristen,here's one.
We'll start with you on this.
I think I think the other guysmight have something to say on
this as well, but I want tostart with you on this one.
And this came up on a phonecall that I had earlier today

(16:59):
with somebody.
I'm not going to mention names,but actually might be in the
chat right now.
The question is if the dogaren't biting right now at this
time of the year, what else canyou fish for when you're out
front?
So you're not in thebackwaters, but you're out
front.
What would you do if you knewyou're on a top and you're just
not going to catch anything?

(17:19):
Is there and you had all thegear in the world?
Is there anything you can do?

It kind of depends on the boat.
And I say that because everyevery boat has their different
kinds of wrecks that they tendto frequent.
So, you know, certain boatswill do, there'll be porgies
around.
So I'm thinking of, I would sayJamaica 2 is my regular boat,
even though I'm on 50,000 boatsand up and down the East Coast
and stuff.
Like, if that would be myregular charter boat, that would
be it, right?
So most of the time we're goingto go to a spot that has some

(17:45):
porgies.
So, you know, the folks thatdon't like talking, they can
still catch porgies on the crab,or you know, we'll have other
beta or whatever, some clam orwhatever.
I like slow pitch jigs.
So for me, I almost always haveat least two little slow pitch
jigs in my bag and throw it downand see what I can catch.
So depending on the time ofyear, again, later on in the

(18:06):
year on J2, I'm thinking of alot of times it's cog and tog.
So again, I have a slow pitchjig just in case I'm that bored.
Let me just dangle the jig.
And I have caught not keepersthough, but I have caught some
some like 14-inch tug on a slowpitch jig, believe it or not.
So it really can happen.
Yeah, that was crazy.

Sounds like a challenge for this for
this weekend for our upcomingtrip.
All right.

I mean, hey, I mean, I'll be
there, so let's let's try it.

Yeah, all right.
So you're you're sayingPorgies.
George, when you're when you'reout front at this time of year
and you're not going after thestriped bass, you're going for
Tog, what what would you belooking at as a secondary
target?
Well, maybe it could be stripedbass.

It is going to be striped bass.
Yeah.
I mean, if I'm on a charter,and if as long as we're inside
of three miles, I still, if I'mon a charter, I'm bringing, I'm
bringing a rod for Caston justin case, or Jagan, just in case,
because uh it's happened, youknow, many times off Atlantic
City, especially this time ofyear.
Atlantic City, even Cape May.
Uh, buddy and I, we went out togo togging out of Cape May, and

(19:08):
I brought a striper rod.
We got out there and there washerring on the surface right off
the Cape May reef.
Yeah.
And I he said, All right, dropthe anchor.
And I said, I'm not droppingthe anchor until I put a bass in
this boat.
And so he ran me over there,and they were all like they were
all 30, 40-pound bass.
And we played with them forabout an hour, and then the
boats covered it up and put themdown, and then we went back to

(19:28):
Tog and I dropped the anchorsfor him.

There you go.
There you go.
All right, Paul, what what areyou fishing for as your
secondary?

Paul - Great Bay Outfitter (19:36):
Kind of the same thing.
Tog, sea bass, striped bass.
Just, you know, you gotta becareful.
You know, George mentioned athree-mile line.
I almost made an error twoyears ago when I moved down
here, stuck fishing.
You know, I'm I'm in southernocean county now.
I ran into just acres ofstriped bass, and I happened to
get a slot, and I'm like, allright, well, cool.

(19:58):
And I put it in my boat, andlike two minutes later, I'm
like, holy crap, I'm going outto a piece that's six miles out.
I can't drink this bass withme.
So it didn't click.
So just be conscious of that,you know.
Like you may catch it inside ofthe three-mile line, but if you
bring that fish past thethree-mile line, you're gonna

(20:19):
have a lot of explaining to do.

You're done.
Yeah, yeah.
We uh we had one of the I I'mgonna say striped bass is a big
one.
The conversation today, it wassea bass was the one that he's
gonna bring extra gear for thisthis trip on Sunday, thinking,
you know, if the tog aren'tbiting, that's what he's gonna
go after.
Striped bass is a good one.
I I have a feeling we're gonnastart inside the three mile.

(20:44):
I I wouldn't keep a stripedbass personally, but it's
something to go after.
But I'll tell you on Fishmongera couple years ago, one of the
best trips I ever had, it was atog trip, and the striped bass
would not stop.
I mean, it was insanity.
I mean, we're fishing for tog,and then striped bass come by
like a you know, a quarter of amile away.

(21:04):
So it's just anchors up andover there, and just on them,
you know, it was it was like theperfect atmosphere.
You're we're bailing those, weget exhausted, and then we go
back to tog fishing until thenext school came through.
So, all right.
Sounds like those are gonna bethe big ones.

I did have one little story there
for them.
I was on uh fishbound down inOtisity, Maryland, and I don't
know how far we're out, but wewere far, really, really far.
So we were looking for you knowbig tug.
And this one guy he he wasfishing his slow pitch setup,
like he likes to use a slowpitch ride for catching tog or
whatever.
We thought he had a doubledigit, pull that thing up, it's

(21:41):
like a 35-pound striped bass.
And then the guy on the otherside of the boat, his ride
starts, you know what I mean,like going in, you know,
cranking.
So he brings it up.
So we had these two twin35-pound, 40-pound striped bass
that we had to take pictures andthrow them out.
And even the captain was justlike, Don't post that because
people are gonna think that wekept it, which of course they
went back.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad (22:02):
Exactly.

Oh man, well, that was so crazy
because it was huge, hugestriped bass on crab, on white
crab.
Like we weren't doing anythingelse, you know, fancy, just
fishing for talk.

Way out there, and fish bound, I
believe, is the world recordholding boat for talk, right?

Yeah, mom.
Now we have I don't know ifthere's that isn't that what
isn't that what Wester films?
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure.
Just because I know there was aguy who just caught one in
Rhode Island.
Oh he caught it bigger.
Yeah, it's up there.
So I'm not sure which one isthe biggest.
I mean, but the big fish haverecently been caught, so yeah.

All right, well, it'll be on the
osprey this weekend.

Kristen McKee - Philly Gir (22:41):
Hey, come on, speaking of things.

It will be, it'll be on my rod.
Of course, somebody will beborrowing it at the time, but it
it'll be on my rod.

unknown (22:53):
All right.

What are you fishing for with the
fertile?
What's your rod setup you use?

So I actually this goes this kind
of goes into a question.
So I I use a custom that wasmade by John Creeley.
So I believe it's a I believeit's a jigging world blank.
And I just I love pen reels, soI use a pen squall low profile.
And that's it.
Like I I don't and actuallythis rolls into a the next

(23:19):
question, which is for everyone.
And and actually, Kristen,let's start with you, and then
we can go around.
The question that came in wasit was set up with I can't
afford these thousand dollarsetups.
What are some good setups thatI can buy off the rack at a
regular store within a limitedbudget to get on these fish?

(23:42):
So I'm gonna leave it wide openand everyone can just answer
for the kind of fish that youreally like to target.
And Paul, even though it'swinter time, you can talk about
sheep setup if you want.
All right, Kristen, you're up.

All right, so I'm gonna go with
fluke.
I think that's the most, youknow, we don't need to spend,
you know, $2,500 on a flukesetup.
It's so, it's so overkill now.
Me, it depends.
And and this kind of goes backto what Paul was saying earlier.
Just know your budget, stopwithin your budget, and then
stop within your means,realistically, right?
So for me, I do have someinjuries from car accidents and

(24:17):
different things in sports whenI was playing basketball and
volleyball and all that stuffback in the day.
I was a little more activist atmy computer desk at work,
right?
So I like the lightest stuffpossible.
So sometimes I will go andspend a little more money to get
that light and strong stuff.
But my almost eight-pound flukethat I caught on J2, I caught

(24:38):
that on a Nexus, on afreshwater, technically, Dio
Tatula from 2013.
Like I it's not even it's noteven a salt water.
Caught an eight-pound fluke onthat.
Like, you know, and it's notagain a Nexus back then.
I think it's probably like 180.
I don't know what they are now,but you can definitely find
them used.
I honestly think you can youcan get away with a solid fluke

(25:00):
setup for like if you spend,let's say, 150 on the rod, and
you could probably even gocheaper than that, but somewhere
between 100 and 150 on a rod,and then 100 for like a size
100, fake caster reels is what Iprefer to use just because I
like to be able to kind of clickwhere's my where's my camera?
Here we go.
Click the the bale and releaseit really easy without having

(25:21):
that that open and making surethe line stays straight on those
open reels.
You know, that that's all youneed.
That's really all you need.
And honestly, even from a jigperspective, you know, bucktails
now are getting prettyexpensive.
So, you know, chicken rig itup.
Hooks, weights, little lowprofile size 100 reel,
baitcaster reel, and whateverkind of rod that you can afford.

(25:43):
Those fish were prettyaggressive as long as you can
feel that jig or the weights ofwhatever you are, then it's
balanced for the amount ofweight that you're using.
Feel it kind of lift, and andwhen it's loaded up with
whatever you have on there,that's all you need.

Very good.
George, what what do you have?
I know you're you're a centuryguy, so you you've got like the
in to the top of mine customs.

It's uh yeah, uh it's it's probably it's all
that's it's nice to have nicestuff, but it's not necessary.
They some of these rods thatare coming out now, tsunami
makes great rods.
They're very affordable.
Reel-wise, there's nothingwrong with reel that's not
waterproof.
If you just if you decided thatyou were going to be in the
water with the reel, you can getold pen reels, you can take

(26:26):
them apart and pack them withgrease.
That virtually makes themwaterproof.
You know, got that's all guysdid before the van stalls,
before the Z-basses, before theVisters, all that, you know,
Z-bass.
They they would just pack theirpen reels with grease.
And that still holds truetoday.
You can still do the samething.
You know, yeah, the the rodsthey're making today are are
ridiculous.
I mean, even the cheap I feltsome of these new tsunami rods,

(26:48):
and they're just they they feelfantastic.
Uh a matter of fact, this kidthat I know called me today and
he was asking me about he said,I'd like to get a rod, but I
can't afford rod.
I said, I said, go look at thetsunami elites, the airwave
elites, they're fantastic andthey're affordable.

Yeah, airway airwaves are definitely
good.
Yeah, definitely.
Paul, what's your thought?

I totally agree with George.
I can't tell you how many fishI've caught on the tsunami
classic.
It's probably like a $70 rod.
It's very versatile.
I do use Nexus a lot.
I I like Jig and Worldproducts, but man, it's it's
just such a simple andinexpensive rod, but it performs
so well.
And I've caught, you know, fromcheap sets of sea bass to

(27:28):
stripe ass.
And if you write if you don'thave a huge budget, yeah, I
completely agree with George.
Go go check out you know theselection of the new tsunami
rods, because I think you'll besurprised.

Yeah, okay.
And I'll I'll just throw in ifyou want to go super cheap like
I do, you know, when you're on akayak, you have limited room,
so I tend to usemulti-functional rods.
One of my favorites is a TFOPro, 7'6, medium heavy, and I
have a $80 pen fierce on there.

(28:02):
I catch fluke with that, Icatch sheep's head with that, I
catch TOG with that, I catchBluefish with that, and I've
caught an over 50-inch stripedbass with that, all with
15-pound braid and whateverliter, depending on what I'm
doing.
So you can go now, it's notperfect for any of those.

(28:22):
Oh, and I've also caughtredfish and speckled trout on
there.
So I mean it's it's versatile.
And the rod itself, I thinkwhen I bought it, it might even
be less expensive now.
I think it was 120 and the reelwas like 80 bucks.
So, you know, for less thanless than $200, I literally
bring that everywhere.
And as a matter of fact, I ambringing that rod on the osprey

(28:44):
this weekend because I know, Imean, when you pull up close to,
if not over, a 50-pound bass ona rod, you're pretty sure that
it can handle anything.
Now it can't bounce aneight-ounce weight, but you
know, I I can use that for anyother species out there that
we're gonna run into.
All right, so thank you.
Those are some good answers.
We got a question in here.

(29:05):
Heaven and L has a question inhere.
I'm gonna save hers for later,though.
So, so Elle, don't go away.
I'm gonna I'm gonna bring itup.
Let's see.
We have this question.
Is there any advice that anyoneokay?
This is for anybody.

(29:26):
Kristen, let's start with you.
People that haven't been onheadboats or charter boats, but
want to start fishing later inthe season.
What advice do you have forfirst timers before they book
their first trip or going ontheir first trip?

When you say later in the season,
we're talking, you know, fall,winter time.
Yep.
Hmm.
And they've never done partyboats before.
Right.
That's what we were saying.
Um, I would say again, I thinkthe bottom fishing is like the
easiest thing to do.
You know, I always tell peoplefor first timers.
Like for example, so you know,I play music at church and

(30:03):
people see my post of fishing.
They're like, Oh man, you gottatake me fishing.
So my first question is, Howgood are you with motion
sickness?
Number one.
Do we need to go fish a pier orare we gonna be on a boat?
But then besides that, it's amatter of, you know, the easiest
thing to me is gonna be seabassand porties.
You put clam on a hook and waituntil you to feel it tug and

(30:23):
then start reeling up.
That's kind of the easiest waythat I can teach them.
I did take a couple ofbeginners out and fluking, and
it was tough.
She managed to catch a short,but she was so excited.
Like that was such a fun dayfor her.
She she picked up on it.
But for a lot of people, Ithink those can be a little bit
more challenging.
So I would say definitely don'tbe afraid to ask the you know,
captain.
You know, I you can messagethem on Facebook nowadays.

(30:45):
Some people, you know, you wantto call them either either way
and kind of ask, hey, I'm new,you know, what should I bring?
Most people do, most of thewebsites do kind of list, you
know, what you do need to bring.
But I say the easiest thing isreach out to the captain, you
know, the day before or a coupledays before the trip and just
ask those questions.
And don't be afraid to askthose questions because those

(31:06):
mates are there to help you.
They'll teach you about how toput the bait on the hook and you
know what kind of stuff wouldyou use.
But definitely that that wouldbe my suggestion.
Go go in October when Seabassis open, and you should have
pretty good action to startwith.

Okay, very good.
Anyone else have something youwant to throw on there?

Yeah, dress warm if you're going out
there right now.
Jesus.
That's that part.
Dress warm, layers, right?
Layer, layer up, and waterproofif you can do it.
Pay attention to the maids, payattention to what other people
are doing on the boat, becauseyou can pick up a lot.
Don't stay like when I'm on aparty boat or a charter, I'm not

(31:45):
I'm not there for the show.
You know, if somebody'scatching on the other side of
the boat, I'm gonna move around.
So just just pay attention, youknow, head on the swivel, open
your eyes, open your ears, andlearn from other people.

Very good.
I'll I'll go back to yourmotion sickness thing.
If you're not sure, takedramamine the night before and
take it the morning of.
If you wait, and and if you doget seasick, you'll still feel
you'll know, even though youtook it, you just won't get sick
or as sick if you take thedramamine.
But if you don't take it theday before and you're going to

(32:18):
get seasick, it's not gonnahelp.
You're you're pretty well donein.
So if you're unsure, just buyit, take it.
And if you go through the wholenext day and you feel nothing,
you probably weren't going toget sick.
But for a $12 package ofdramamine, you know, it'll make
your $150 plus dollar trip thatmuch more enjoyable.

(32:38):
Nobody wants to.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitter (32:40):
That boat is not turning around.
So you you have to know it,brother.

Kristen McKee - Philly (32:46):
Consider insurance.
Man, it reminds me of summertimes when the families would
get on for the afternoon foodtrips and be kind of like
they're excited and they're liketrying to surf the waves at the
front of the boat and having agood time.
We always laugh and give themabout 45 minutes that they're
gonna be laying down on thebench, either outside or inside,
or their heads in a bucketbecause they they thought it was

(33:07):
fun and didn't realize that uhyeah, it didn't take germamine
or bonine or get the the patch.
The people get the the littleuh patch.
So yeah.

Yeah.

Don't be afraid.

Do something.
And and I I don't think peoplerealize just how many regulars
on these boats get seasick.
And they take, but they takethe stuff beforehand and they
are like regulars, like on allthe time, at least once, twice a
week for some of them.
Some of these older guys thatI've met on these boats are out
there every freaking time I'm onthere, and they always have a

(33:39):
patch on.
So, you know, and and if youdon't get seasick, just keep in
mind everybody is capable ofgetting seasick, even if you
don't.
I've never been seasick, but Iam certainly capable of it.
And it's if it happens, it'sgonna happen.
So yeah, keep that in mind.
George, do you have anythingyou want to add on that or are
you good?

I mean, I'm not much of a togger.
I do it, I'll do it once in awhile, but I try to tell people
to have some patience.
You know, have a little bit ofpatience and and learn how that
bite feels.
I mean, I I took a guy out whonever did it before, and there
were six of us on the boat, newcharter boat.
He got the first rod and hedropped it down and he got bit
instantly, and he just wasjerking and jerking it.

(34:19):
And I said, that that poor Toddprobably has a stiff neck now
watching that bait going up anddown so fast.
So once he learned to have alittle patience, we start
putting fish in the boat.

Yeah.
All right.
And here's here's one that I'llthrow in there from KC D.
Don't bring bananas on theboat.
Just don't do it.
Yeah, and that's actually onethat'll annoy people if you do
it.
Some people will actually getannoyed if you do it because
apparently it's true that youcan't have bananas on a boat.
I don't personally believe it,but there are people that get

(34:52):
really upset when you, you know,they spend all that money and
you brought bananas.
They think it curses the boat.
So that's a good point.
All right.
You you're not going to, or youare?

I am.

You are.
It won't bother me.
I think Scotty's bringing upthe.
How many bunches are youbringing?
I'll read the whole boat.
I'm down with the banana.
There you go.
Little tiny guys.
All right.
So here's one.
George, this one's a good onefor you.
So this is this is one of themost common questions that I get

(35:28):
throughout the year.
And I can't tell you how manytimes I try to answer this via
text, and it takes like an hourof texting back and forth.
And let's just let's kind ofnarrow in on this time of year,
even though it's generally amore general question depending
on the time of year.
If you're going to go fishingfor striped bass from the beach
and you don't have any reports,like you don't have a network,

(35:51):
you don't know where they areright now, but you're going to
go down to the beach and you'relike, I got to go fishing today.
What are you specificallylooking for on a beach before
you hit that beach and startthrowing lures out there?

I'm looking for birds.
I'm looking for bait.
You know, if it's a sunny day,finding the bunker will be easy.
If there's just birds pickingin the wash, it's probably going
to be sand eels.
So you're going to know whatkind of what kind of bait you're
going to be throwing.
If it's sand eels, you canthrow metal, you can throw
skinny profiles if it's bunker.
And generally I'll pick anarea, and that area could be 10

(36:26):
miles, that could be 20 miles,or sometimes it could be even,
you know, up to 40 miles of anarea that I'm going to work.
And maybe I'll start to thenorth and work my way south, or
maybe I'll start south and workmy way north.
And it's amazing how you can bea mile away from incredible
action.
And if you're not movingconstantly, looking for that
bait to see where these fish areare pushing the bait in, that

(36:49):
you know, it could be literallynext to you.
But if it's around like sort ofa bend on the coastline, you're
not going to know it unless youkeep moving until you f
actually find some action.

So so let's let's take this.
Let's say you're you're gonnastart north and work your way
home.
So you're heading south.
Yeah.
You're you're you're pulling upto a beach, you're jumping onto
the beach, you're fishing itfor a while, you know, you saw
some birds or or whatever, somesand eels in the wash.
You're fishing there and nowit's time to move.
Are you just jumping in the carand you're moving a mile at a
time, two miles?

It'll that'll that'll depend how quick how
quickly the action's moving.
This particular year, it's beena lot of movement.
I mean, it seems like the fishare moving faster than the bait.
So you, you know, a lot oftimes if I see it setting up, if
I see them pushing, activelypushing bunker in, I may set up
two blocks south of that andjust be patient and let it come

(37:41):
to me.
And then there's other timeswhere I'll just I'll jump right
into it if maybe they haven'tpinned on a jetty or pinned in a
like maybe a on a bar, right?
And I'll jump right into itbecause those fish may not
actually move for a little bitof time.
So it's and then it's there'sbeen a lot of that this year
where the fish seemed this year,they seem to come in and out.
They would come in for five orten minutes and then they would

(38:03):
push out, and then they wouldpop down the beach maybe two
blocks, and the bait was justflying.
So I actually invested in a anelectric bike this year because
I'm tired of walking.
I'm just gonna ride theelectric bike down the beach
with the fish now.

That's a great idea.

Yeah.

By the way, Paul sells electric
bikes.

Oh my god.
I think that's so cool.
I have like a fat tire e-bike.
Yeah, a yak attack crate on itwith rod holders.
I mean, I tricked it out.
And the thing handles sand sowell.
I was surprised.
I was really surprised.

Yeah, I got a couple buddies that you know
it's it's tough to compete withthat one.
You know, all of a sudden thatyou see three blocks away, you
see the fish push in, and I go,All right, let me get my old ass
down there.
And my buddies hop on theirelectric bikes and go zipping
down there, and they have two orthree fish before I even get
there.

Yeah, and you're out of breath.

Yo, I've I've there were many days where I
walked five, ten miles thisyear.

Yeah, that I I can't do that.
I'm out.
I'm out on that one.
I'm I'm jumping on the back ofyour bike.
I'm jumping in that yak attackbox.

And Rich is gonna be on the
handlebars.

Yeah, yeah.
I'm sitting on the I'm sittingon the handlebars.
I'm behind George just holdinghis waist.
Slow down, George.

Pull one of those little kitty things that they
attach to the back of the bikeand just sit down.

Oh yeah, put me in a little
trailer.
I'm in.
Kristen, you in?
We'll we'll get in the trailer.
We'll pull on George.

I think the trailer is more is
more fitting.
Yeah.

All right.
So what what do you do if youdon't see anything?
And you're just like, you know,you don't see anything
anywhere.
Do you still go down and checktroughs or anything like that?

Yeah, I mean, you know, you can work back and
forth.
There's I mean, it's the kindof thing where, especially in
the fall, where it may nothappen till till noon.
So sometimes I may just, if Iif I think that there's going to
be an area, maybe there wasfish the day before, and I'll go
maybe a mile south of wherethey were the day before and
just be patient.
You got to have some patience.

(40:02):
And like, you know, we'vetalked about before, there's the
surf cameras are up and downthe whole coast now.
So while I'm sitting therewatching the water, I'm watching
to see what the boats are doingbecause the boats will be a
dead giveaway, especially theparty boats.
They'll get on it, you know.
And if you know, you get acouple boats together, it
attracts more boats.
And then you'll have an idea ofmaybe where the fish are and if

(40:23):
they're going to be able topush some bait in or not.
You know, these boats have thethey got the best electronics.
So they're not stopping just todrop some lines, they're
stopping because they're markingfish.

Right.
Well, for striped bass.
Yeah.
For fluke, they're juststopping because the guy next to
them stopped.

Yeah, that's yeah.

All right.
Here, here's a follow-upquestion that in the chat.
Do you still find success onthe pencils when those fish are
on sand eels?

Yes.
Yes, yes, I do.
Yeah, because a lot of timesthey push the sand deals to the
surface.
So uh they're just looking forsomething wiggling across the
and a lot of times you may haveto downsize that pencil.
Maybe I'll go from something inthe you know eight-inch range
and I'll just downsize to asmall pencil, like a five or
six-inch Cordell or a five or afive-inch, the tiny uh Guppy

(41:12):
pencils.
Guppy makes a great littlepencil, you know, something a
little smaller, small profiles,and a lot of times that'll
trigger a lot more bites thanthe bigger pencils.

Is what are you what are you
throwing first for sandals?

For sandals, I you know, I don't like to throw the
Ava jigs.
I will throw Ava jigs, but youknow, SP minnows, long skinny
profile things.
Anything that's got a longskinny profile, I prefer to get
everything I can on top order.
I just love a top order strike.
So I'll throw pencils to thepoint of fall.

(41:44):
And, you know, whileeverybody's catching fish, I'm
gonna try to get that one pencilstrike.

Okay, very good, very good.
Let's see.
Let me find the next questionhere.
Paul, this one's probably agood one for you.
What's the best source forfinding kayak launch points?
The question was actually forNew York, but let's just say in
general, what what are somesources that you use to find
kayak launch points?

So I do a lot of scouting, like in
Virginia, for example.
I knew nothing about it.
Once I down to Kate Charles, Iopened up Google Maps and I just
scoured every inch of thatcoastline.
And you don't need much tolaunch a kayak.
So you know, Google Earth,Google Maps are definitely a
friend.
It's not difficult.
Uh I'll identify areas ofinterest and then I'll drive

(42:35):
there physically.
Just like when I moved to uhLarry Harper.
I knew nothing about this.
And I was able to find, youknow, probably a dozen good
spots to put in just from GoogleMaps.
There is a GoPadling, I think,app.
I don't find it like great.
No, it's not.
It's very like generic, and Idon't really trust other

(42:56):
people's.
It's kind of like you know,when people check their fishing
spots on maybe on it's like alot of it is just wrong.
So I don't really trust that.
So you you have to put yourtime in.
This is the time to do this.
Like over the winter, I spend aton of time trying to find new
spots to put in, trying to scoutfor you know pieces where I

(43:19):
where I can tog.
So that's how I kill a lot ofmy winners just pouring over
computer screens and and youknow, Google Maps and Abe
Honics.

Yeah, I I I gotta say it's Google
Maps for me.
The GoPaddling app, it'll stickyou places where you can't park
and you'll get towed, likeBrigantine, for example.
You can't even get to this spotanymore, but there's a spot on
there in Brigantine, New Jersey,where it says that you can
launch, you'll you'll actuallyget towed if you launch there.

The casinos are really important to
follow up physically.
Go there, Scotty spot.

Yeah, just be just be careful about
where you're going.
I I do say this be very carefulwhere you launch and assuming
that you it's a good spot justbecause you can get the kayak to
the water.
There are spots, and I'll bringa very specific one where you
can launch.
It is very well known.
I'm not blowing up a kayaklaunch.
It's it's down at HerefordInlet, the bridge right there.

(44:15):
And you can launch right at thebase of the bridge.
But what you need to know isthat if it's at low tide, you
are one step into 40 feet ofwater.
It is a sheer cliff into 40feet of water.
So there are times where youdon't want to go there because
you can't get out without kindof diving onto the onto the sod

(44:37):
bank.
And there's certain winds thatyou don't want to be there
because it gets reallydangerous.
You know, you stand when youstep off onto that sod, it can
break.
And then all of a sudden you'rein direct inlet flow in 40 feet
of water, and it's going to bepushing you away from there.
So it looks great.
I will launch there sometimes,but I actually prefer to take a

(44:58):
two-mile or I think it's aone-mile trip around Nummy
Island in order to get therethan launch at that spot.
So uh I I just I'll justcaution people about that.
Just be careful, make sure youscout it out and look at the
depths too, because it doesmatter.
And on the flip side, Ilaunched at Staten Island once,
looked like a great spot.
Man, it was perfect, but Ididn't think about low tide.

(45:21):
And when I came back in after avery long day out on the
Rariton, I'm exhausted, tons ofstraight bass.
What a great day! And it waslow tide, getting lower, and it
ended up being like a quarter ofa mile pull of the kayak, but
it wasn't just like it wasn'tsand, it was mud and boulders.

(45:42):
And I'm dragging my kayak, ahundred and some pound kayak,
over this thing.
It was the worst.
I I think I might have cried onthe way.
So it was so bad.
In a dry suit.
Oh my god.
So I'm sweating, you know, itwas probably filled up from
sweat at that point.

So yeah, this is great.
I mean, you know, blow outside,you could be wading through,
you know, two feet of muck.
It's not, it's not fun.
You know, you'll literally sinkto your knees.
Yeah.
And you know, when you'redragging a you know, 120 to 140
panic kayak with gear, it ain'tfun, man.
So watch the ties, absolutely.

Yeah, it's it's it can be brutal.
It can be brutal, andespecially when it's mud, you
know, and the mud that stinkwon't get off you, at least not
very quickly.
All right.
So we have a question from fromL having an L outdoors, which I
think is an interestingquestion.
Now, I'm gonna tell everyoneright now, there's a little bit
of blasphemy in this, so getready.

(46:40):
So here's a question.
I have a controversial questionfor everyone.
Does anyone else feel fishingburnout by the time winter
arrives?
I know blasphemy.
Let's go around the horse.
So, okay, George, let's let'sflip your seasons.
So you get started wheneveryone else is stopping.
Like your big season is thefall, right?

I I prefer spring.
I'm right now, I'm cooked.
I'm cooked.
I you are burned out.
Yeah, I am completely burnedout right now.
Yes.
Okay.
All right.
Yeah.
Uh it'll and it'll probablytake me probably till sometime
in the end of December, mayberight after Christmas, and then
I'll start getting the itch, andthen I'll start to probably

(47:24):
wander south.

Okay.
All right.
So, all right.
So there's there's anotherblasphemer with you, L.
So George and you are both inon that that side of it.
Kristen, how about you?

Yeah, I mean, uh, I uh I can
definitely say last weekend waswas rough.
That almost had me.
I I joked with with a couple ofmy friends and said I'm I'm
done fishing for two weeks, andliterally it works out because
I'll be on your trip thisMonday.
But yeah, no, we were fishingin the rain.
40, I don't know, it wasprobably 40 something degrees.
It probably felt like 30something with the wind chill,

(47:58):
and the forecast was just wrong.
You know, just wrong.
I brought a poncho over mystormer thinking that would be
fine because it was kind of likesupposed to just drizzle
through the day.
Rain, like legit rain.
Everything is soaked.
I cut my thumb on like my GoProcamera case thing.
So I have like it's the thumbthat I need to like, you know,
spool the line with.

(48:19):
So I'm like, gushing blood,it's raining, I'm cold.
I'm like, the bite wasn'tthere.
Those it's tough.
It's it's tough.
Like that's those are themoments where it's kind of like,
whoo, I could be home, youknow, drinking coffee, playing
Call of Duty, and anything.
But I'm here.
I'm here.
So I say, hey, and then when itdoes happen, though, take a
break.
And you know, that is somethingI will definitely do and go try

(48:41):
some of my other hobbies for alittle bit, and kind of similar
to what George was saying, thencome back.
You know, once you get thatitch, you just come back to it,
go back to some warmer places.
That's usually when I start tomigrate down to the Maryland and
Virginia for some talk and it'sa little bit warmer, just
slightly marginally.
You won't see me up north atall.
And you know, try your luckdown there.

All right, so you're on a two-week
hiatus.
George, you're just coming offa 21-day bender, so we we get
it.
We get it.
Paul, how about you?
You you burn out at all?

It kind of depends on how many
charters I'm invited on.
Sometimes you get into this,you know, stretch.
Look, like you get invited onlike fishing fever on manga, you
don't turn those trips down,right?
So, you know, you you get out,you fish.
But man, like I'm not, I mean,I'm 54 years old, but damn, like
I can't be at the rail for, youknow, an entire day, multiple

(49:35):
days a week.
That's when I get burned out.
Like, you know, I love fishingwith Jedi, but you know, like,
you ain't going home until thebox is full.
So, you know, you're you'reafter.
That kills me.
If I commit to too manycharters in in a short period of
time, as much as I love fishingwith those captains, it it it

(49:56):
kills me.
I I feel like but I do like tofish year-round and a lot of
guys plus my jobs about thewhite perch, but you know, ever
since I discovered white perch,you know, like hype fishing,
this is what gets me to thewinter, you know?
Yeah, like you know, I I likewhite perch fishing now, and and
you know, it gives me morecontent for my page to the

(50:20):
winter because I can post somereports, you know, it just kind
of keeps me engaged.
So yeah, I I've I've lightenedup on on a charter business uh
recently just because it just itkicks my butt.

Yeah, I I feel the same way.
I mean, I did it fishingprofessionally as a coach for a
couple of years and it it wasn'tfun.
With that said, I still want tofish year-round.
I don't want to take big breaksunless I have to, but I
physically can't do the everydayanymore.
You know, getting old, I justcan't do it.

(50:54):
Like George, if we were to go,if you said, Rich, we're gonna
meet and I'm gonna show you whatit's like to start fish with me
for a day, honestly, withoutexaggeration, I could probably
physically keep up with you forabout 45 minutes.
And then I'd be like physicallydone.
Like, I'm done.
I just can't do it.
I just don't have the staminato do it and uh and everything.

(51:16):
So I'm starting to feel itmore.
So to that point, I think weall agree.
Yeah, everybody does get someburnout.
I think all of us do.
But it goes into anotherquestion that we had.
Actually, the first one I gotwhen I posted this.
How do you know when we crossover from fishing as a fishing

(51:36):
for fun into fishing as a chore?
And I think it goes with this.
Like I think we all get intothat where you go because you
think you have to.

Oh, I it's every day.
Yeah.
Every day.
I I it's almost like, you know,I can't tell you how many
times, you know, I find myself,you know, getting up at one
o'clock in the morning and I'mdriving up to the Rariton or 12
o'clock, you know.
I get to bed at eight, nineo'clock, and then I and get up
at 12 o'clock for an alarm so Ican catch a tide at 1 30 in the
morning.

(52:07):
Right.
And you know, you get andyou're saying to yourself, what
am I doing?
You know what am I doing?
I I'm I'm standing in themiddle of the Rariton Bay by
myself at at 2 o'clock in themorning, you know.
Yeah.
And you you question yoursanity.
And you know, you wonder, youknow, is it is it really worth
it?
Uh uh, how many fish do I needto catch to feel satisfied?

(52:27):
And but then you get that firstfish, and then you, you know,
and then it all comes rushingback while you're doing it.

But then it does return when you
get back in the truck and you'relike, oh my god, I got a
two-hour drive back on fourhours of sleep, and I got work
tomorrow.

Yeah, I mean, and I'm I'm 58 years old, you know.
I keep I I keep saying, youknow, this is gonna be my last
year doing it hard.
This is my last year, but I'vebeen saying that for about six
or seven years now.

Yeah, we have records of you saying
that on this show.

unknown (52:53):
Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad (52:56):
Kristen, what do you think?
When when does it pass?

I mean, I think similar to kind
of what Paul was saying, youknow, there were seasons where
it was like everybody wants tobite me on a charter.
So it was like, okay, I gottatake this.
Is this captain?
Is this captain?
I was running up and down.
Like, I I think one year frommy birthday, I literally drove
and fished in three differentstates in three different days.
Okay, so I went, I got invitedup, I was off.

(53:22):
It was it was for my birthday,so it was in the in the
summertime.
So I was off, drove to RhodeIsland to go fish for Fluke,
then came back, fished.
Well, now he's monger, but withCaptain Alex on point, well,
was on point, but monger now.
So fished with him the nextday, and then had a tile fish
trip the next day in Maryland.
And each time in between, Istopped in my hometown and went

(53:47):
to sleep and for like two hoursand got back on the road.
And by the time I got to thetowel fish trip, we were fishing
like, I don't know, 800 feet ofwater, which I probably went
out in additional 200 yards ofline to like a thousand feet
with like a five-pound weight.
I was so tired.
I barely had the energy tocatch that foul towel fish that
I did catch that day.
So I do think that like whenthat burnout happens, it's

(54:10):
because you know I'm beingteamed too much, like I tend to
do.
You know, we we get excitedwhen we feel literally we call
it the drug of the tub, right?
We get excited for it.
So it's like, oh, I get achance to go here, I can
physically catch this big fish.
But at the end of the day, tome, that's just that's more of a
frequency problem versus justactually fishing being the
problem.

So when the dust is too much extra dust settles
from something like that, youknow, and you you recover, you
look back on it though, and youand you say, Boy, that was
great, you know.

Oh, yeah, I can tell the story now.
You know, I'm the youngest oneof everybody, but I definitely
feel the difference, you know.
Five years later, when I firststarted doing this, and I was
running up and down and and youknow, fishing more from land and
and all of that and trying tolook for spots.
So, same thing.
Fishing on a metal boat allday, you know, yeah, it it
hurts.
It hurts your joints a littlebit.

(54:58):
So you gotta, it's just to me,it's tempering it.
Don't lose the love for it, youknow what I mean?
Take a break, come back, andthen you know, I'm sure it'll
still be there.
But it just might be that timewhen we're getting burnt out
from doing too much.
So portion control.

I've tried the whole fish smarter, not harder
thing, and it just doesn't workfor me.

Well, so that's that's one of the
things that actually brings upthis question or this comment
that you know you're you'returning fishing into a chore, is
when we go into how to findspots and the things that you
can do to make your day moreproductive.
And people are like, I justwant to hit the water and drop a
line and catch a fish.
It's like that's fine.
That's different fishing thanwhat we're typically talking

(55:41):
about.
And on this channel, look, I wewe tend to focus on the how-to
more than anything.
And it can seem like it's youknow, it's not just science.
Like I do go fishing and Idon't have a plan.
I just hit the water and youknow, I just fish for what I for
whatever I catch.
I have an idea of where to go,but I didn't research it.
But you know, the first timethat we ever had that comment,

(56:04):
Mahalik was on.
He's like, and this is how youthis is how you set the hook,
and this is what you're doing.
And that he went through very,very specifically.
And the one guy was like, he'slike, it's not fun.
It doesn't sound fun, butthere's you know, there's a
difference.
Is if to Frank, that's not achore.
That's that's how he gets tohis fun, but there's different

(56:24):
ways to do it, I guess.
Paul, you run into that?

Yeah, I mean I I think I I've
recognized that recently in thelast couple of seasons.
So I'm I'm really trying topick my first of all, I'm being
a lot more selective about thecompany that I I fish with.
I don't like people who, youknow, yell, scream, get bent up.
Like, I'm kind of with Mihalik.
Like he fishes with gentlemen.

(56:49):
I don't need drama in my life.
Like if I'm on a boat,especially on a on a trunk with
guys that are getting, you know,pissy, I I it affects me.
I I don't have fun.
So I cut a lot of people out ofmy circle just because I don't
enjoy fiction with them.
And I also I picked my days,you know.
The other day we went out, gotthe snop kicked out of us on a

(57:10):
20-foot boat and you know,six-foot seas.
I cut a double-digit tog, whichwas nice, but I hated life.
You know, like we're we'recoming back in the following
sea, and you know, head on aswivel because you gotta pay
more attention to the stern thanthe back because you know, a a
six, eight-foot wave could swapthe motor.

(57:31):
Like, this wasn't fun.
Like, I don't I don't belongout there.
So I I think I've recognizedthat you know, I I've caught
enough fish.
I'm not, you know, the world'sgreatest angler.
I just I want to have fun.
This is probably another reasonwhy I don't create content.
Like, you know, like if I hadto put out a video, like I give
a lot of props to you know guyslike Joe from 609 fishing and

(57:53):
and chapters the act.
These guys are out of everyfreaking weekend, and and they
gotta put enough, you know,content on tape to last them
through the winter also.
That's a lot of work.
This is not for me.
You know, God bless them.
They're having fun, that'sgreat.
You know, they make a couple ofbucks.
This is not for me.
I would I'm never gonna be theguy that's that's creating, you

(58:15):
know, content week in, week out,because I know that's what it's
gonna be a job, and I'm gonnahate fishing.

Yeah, and that's one of the reasons
that I stopped doing that.
I I'll do a video every now andthen, but uh I'll do the live
streams because it's fun.
Editing videos for you know,going through eight hours of
video.

Kristen McKee - Philly (58:35):
Kristen, you know what's oh boy, I I'm
still I'm still back up in thesummertime.

So yeah, it is tough, and then you
get that extra stress.
Gotta put out a video, gottaput out a video, gotta catch
something, gotta do something,which is why you see these
lunatic YouTubers out therepretending that they caught
sharks while floating out onlike you know an inflatable
unicorn.
You know, everyone knows it'snot true, but they do it because
they just need something.
You know, I've caught this inthis sewer.

(59:00):
No, you didn't.
You didn't catch that in thesewer, you idiot.
But you know, they they needsomething, and it's easier to do
that than it is to actually goout and catch fish.
And yeah, it's it's not as muchfun for me.
Yeah, it it kind of crossedthat line.
And to your point, Paul, youdon't make a lot of money.
You you could have 20,000subscribers, you're not making a

(59:21):
lot of money on it at all.
On a per hour basis, it'spennies.

I I love what like I love you know,
watching 609 fishing.
You know, he's he's got good,he's just such a good angler,
you know.
Like I learned so much fromhim.
I you know, I get to fish withwith Joe a few times a year.
We do the tagging video for forrobbers.
The guy's just amazing.
I mean, he I I enjoyed thatthat episode the the day that we

(59:47):
went out, that's probably my byfar my favorite day this
summer.
You know, I just it was a bunchof good guys, you know, we did
a good thing for for robbers.
And it was just fun, you know.
No pressure, you know, we wedid our thing.
So I I enjoy watching his hiscontent.
He's he he's just a reallytalented guy.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (01:00:08):
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
I gotta get him back on.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitters (01:00:12):
Not to mention he's part of my pro
staff team.
So that's true.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fi (01:00:17):
That's true.
That is true.
Yeah, he he's a good guy, verybusy guy, too, though.
I mean he does a lot more thanjust Christianity.

But that's why I love him.
Like he's a family guy, he'syou know, he he works hard, he
he puts out good content.
He's just a good dude.

Yeah.
All right, so we're we're atour hour.
I have one question that Ipromised that I would get on.
And this this came in earlier.
Actually, it came in about anhour ago.
I don't know if you guys knowthe the answer to this.
Kristen, you might, Paul, youmight, George, you don't you
don't quite care.

(01:00:52):
So you're off the hook on thisone.
At what temperatures do TOGbasically start moving to deeper
waters?
Does anyone want to take that,or do you just want me to take
that?

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl (01:01:04):
I'm gonna let you take that out of
here.
I can take a guess based off ofwhen they start biting in New
Jersey on the party roads, butI'll I'm gonna let you take that
first.
I'll chime in for any othercolor.

Okay.
So my mine's going to be it'sit's fact-based, but I'm gonna
throw in my own personalobservations as well, you know,
just to kind of slant it alittle bit because look, I can
tell you the exact degree, andnobody knows the exact degree,
but it people act like they do.
So basically, when you'retalking about TOG at this time
of the year, and the question Ithink came in because it's like,

(01:01:38):
well, when do I have to stopfishing the backwaters?
And when do I have to go outfront?
And then after I go out front,how how long before I have to
get out to 120 feet, you know,and and get to the real deep
stuff.
So basically, the way that theway that TOG move, you're
basically going to have themcomfortable and fishable in some

(01:01:59):
quantity and some size in thebackwaters until that water gets
to around 56 to 53 degrees iskind of the range.
And then they'll start to pushout.
Doesn't mean they leave,they'll start to push out.
When you get to around, onceyou drop below 50, that's like a
real trigger point for them.
So you think 49, 48 degreetemperatures in the water,

(01:02:21):
they're they're pretty muchpushing out.
They're going out.
And the reason is it's not thatthey're going out for any
reason except they're lookingfor more comfortable water
because once they get, I thinkthe number is, I think the
number is 45 degrees.
Maybe it's a little bit lowerthan at, maybe 44, 43 degrees.
Once they get to thattemperature, it becomes very

(01:02:43):
uncomfortable for them.
So you look at, you know,optimal temperatures for fish,
that just means when are theythe most comfortable and feeding
the most?
And for tog, once you get belowthat 45 degrees, they're gonna
have issues with it and they'regonna push deep.
The reason that they push deepis because you get a more
consistent water temperature andit will stay, there's a
thermocline typically in thewater when you get that deep.

(01:03:04):
So they're going to getunderneath that thermocline and
they're gonna hang there.
You also see that in the winterfor striped bass.
So if there are striped bass inthe backwaters and you're in a
place where you're allowed tofish for them, look for an area
that has a thermocline.
They're going to be underneaththat, sitting under there, but
don't do it.
No, you don't think so?

(01:03:26):
No.
During the day, they're notgoing to be sitting under the
thermo.
I all right, let's hear it.
Let's hear it.

George Bucci (01:03:33):
I've caught bass in 30 degree water.
With artificials on sandbars inthe backwater in January and
February.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (01:03:42):
But they sit under they they go
under for the comfort of thatmore cons well.
Let me ask you this.
Is it on a day where the airtemperature is warmer than the
water temperature?

Not necessarily.

No.

No, I've seen, I mean, uh and and I was kind of
right with you for a while.
Until until last year.

Yeah.
Really?

So it all changed.

unknown (01:04:06):
Okay.

Yeah, it all it all changed for me.
I mean I think that whathappens is I think there, you
know, because we have a lot ofholdover fish.
We have a lot of holdover fish,you know, and okay.
You know, the whether or notwe're allowed to fish for them,
that's a whole different topic,okay, in in the state of New
Jersey.
But you can go to Connecticutand fish the Housatonic River
for holdovers, or you can go toMaryland and fish the catch and

(01:04:28):
release season.
And and New Jersey shouldn't beany different.
But I've literally uh seenartificials caught in 30 degree
water that wasn't frozen, butyou had to break ice to get to
the unfrozen water.
And I think these feed thefeeds they they're just smaller.
What they'll do is they'll feedfor a shorter period of time.

(01:04:48):
The activity of these fish isjust a shorter period of time,
but they're just as active inthat short period of time.
They're very aggressive in 30degree water as they are in 43
degree water, but it's just asmaller window.

All right.

And and I mean if I threw number that.

I'm getting distracted by the chat
at the same time.

If I if I threw numbers that yeah, I mean if I I
mean what I've seen as far asthe amount of fish that hold
over in New Jersey waters isit's ridiculous.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (01:05:20):
So okay.

And I'm probably gonna take some heat for that,
but no, I well, not for me.

Look, I I think I've been pretty
consistent saying I don't knoweverything, and I am very happy
to be corrected, especially whenpeople see things different
than what I see.
Yeah.
So I'll go back to what I wassaying.
Thermocline is a good indicatorof the more consistent water
temperature, but you can catchthem in 30-degree water on bars.
So for those very fast, but asfar as the TOG, that's when they

(01:05:50):
are going to start moving moreto the deeper wrecks, which is
why right now in the season forthe headboats, they're in
tighter to shore, they don'thave to push out because the
tog, we don't have to goanywhere yet.
They're still very comfortablein the water temperatures that
we're seeing right now.

Kristen McKee - Philly Girl (01:06:06):
So yeah, that's about the only
part that I can kind of add,like just knowing because again,
I'm not really fishing based.
I don't do kayaks.
I'm a big girl.
I know we can be on kayaks, butmy comfortability on being on a
kayak is non-existent thus far.
But when I get there, Paul, Iknow you're the first one to go
to because I I've had friendstell me all different types that

(01:06:26):
I can try.
I'm like, we're gonna startslow.
I digress.
So anyway, the party boats,like how far, what kind of
wrecks are we doing?
Are we fishing closer to shore?
So I feel like, especially uhhere's an example.
You know, when I went out whatthree weeks ago, went out to
James Joseph, so that was on theBay side on New York, Long

(01:06:46):
Island.
I've never fished over therebefore.
So I said, let's give it ashot.
They had some good pictures up,but understanding that the
temperature change for there,like when I got there, I was
probably about two weeks toolate for when it was starting to
die down.
And so the ocean side, andi.e., like where we are in
Jersey, is where it's kind ofstarting to pick up.
Obviously, our season opens.
So I would say being on theparty boats, knowing that it's

(01:07:10):
usually a little tough, likeright when it opens
mid-November, we're fishingcloser to the shore, smaller
little wrecks and rocks andthings like that that are closer
in.
Once we start gettingmid-December into like mid-ish
January, and it depends on theseason.
That's when we're kind of goingout to those deeper wrecks.
Once we get past, if I'mfishing still in Jersey, once we

(01:07:30):
get past mid-January towhatever boats are still going
out, let's say mid-February, nowwe're trying to hit those
really, really far wrecksbecause again, like what you
what you said is what peoplehave told me about the
thermoclimb and thattemperature.
So I never came to the exacttemperature, but around that
50-degree mark was what peoplehave murmured to me.
So that's kind of what I'maware of.
Everything after that, I wouldjust say, just based off of what

(01:07:51):
the party boats do, that's howI've tracked how far these fish
must be moving out.

Well, yeah, I mean, you you see
people that make their livingdoing something, it it does add
weight to it.
And I'll put George in thatcategory as well.
It may not be his living, buthe treats it like I mean, when
you work less days than you fishin a month, it's essentially
his job.
He knows where to find thosefish.
So George, I I want to go backand now we got to do a whole

(01:08:18):
show on cold water fishing atsome point.
And Paul, you got to come inbecause I I I love that white
perch fishing.
I absolutely, and they're thesmallest fish that I will target
all year, and I absolutely lovefishing for them.
I don't care if it's 20 degreesout, I'm hitting that water,
and I'm that to me is so muchfun.

I it's a lot of fun.
They're tasty fish.
I actually prefer the whiteperch over sea bass.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (01:08:45):
It's too it's too cold to clean
them.
I just throw them back, it'stoo cold.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitte (01:08:50):
Yeah, well, give them to me next
time.

All right, I'll give them to you.
I'll give them to you.
All right, is there anythingthat we missed as far oh I I I'm
gonna do this because it's mynephew who put the comment in
there.
Uh I'm gonna answer hisquestion.
So he's going Sunday.
So Dominic says, Uncle Rich,are you gonna pick us up for the
fishing trip in your whiterusty van with free candy
written on the side?

(01:09:13):
Yes, Dominic, that is the thatis the vehicle I'm bringing
down.
And the only reason I'm doingit is because I know you and
your brother would fall for it.
So yes.
That's what we're doing.
That's what we're gonna roll upto uh the Osprey on Sunday.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
So uh thanks guys for comingon.

(01:09:34):
It's a good episode.
I I learned George, I'm gonnabe I'm gonna be thinking about
that for quite a while now.

You gotta look at the you gotta look at the
Chesapeake Bay, Rich, and andsee what they do down there in
the winter and how far thosefish push up into the Chesapeake
Bay, and that'll give you allyour answers.
I mean, uh it's a it's anincredible fishery in the
winter, mostly.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitt (01:09:55):
What's that, Paul?
I think it's like I love it.
It's like late showcontroversy.
We're about to wrap up, andthen you and George just have
differing opinions.
Love it.

Well, see, yeah, so now I'm thinking
I gotta get to the Chesapeakenow, and and Paul, you know I'm
gonna drag you with me.

Paul - Great Bay Outfitt (01:10:13):
You're really gonna have to twist my
arm.
I'll let me tell you.

Yeah, yeah.
Well, we'll we'll have to godown in the for some winter
fishing where we can, when wecan.
Um, but off air.
It's not for on air.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
All right, everyone, thanks forfor tuning in.
If you're gonna be again on thetrip on Sunday on the Osprey,
make sure you introduceyourself.
It's literally the onlysold-out trip for the Osprey

(01:10:37):
that I've seen.
So I'm guessing the vastmajority of people are going to
be us.
Um, yeah, might have a giveawaytoo.
Uh, we've got one of my localtackle shop up here is saying
they're gonna try to throwsomething together.
So who knows what the hell isgonna happen?
All I know is that we're gonnacatch more than starfish this
time and uh and a singlelobster.

(01:10:59):
We're gonna have fun out there.
So, everyone, until then, don'tget out there in the water
tomorrow.
It's gonna be brutal weather,but try to hit the water in
advance so we can talk aboutthat.
And everyone else, we'll seeyou Sunday.
And if not, we'll see youMonday with a recap.
Everyone, get out there, get onthe water, get some tight
lines.

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