EP 58: Mastering Trout in Cold Weather with Chris Matuson

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Cold winds, canceled boats, and cabin fever don’t have to end your season. We head upstream to chase winter trout in clear, moving water and break down a simple, reliable playbook: ultralight gear, two confidence lures, and the patience to fish slow and low. With Chris Matusin joining Rich, we dig into what holdover trout actually do when temperatures drop and why the best water isn’t the obvious stock truck pull-off, but the bends, seams, and plunge pools where oxygen and food collide.

We get specific about setups that matter in cold conditions: 4.5- to 5.5-foot ultralight rods, 2- to 4-pound mono, and compact jerkbaits that suspend naturally. Chris explains why a slim 2.5-inch minnow-pattern jerkbait is his first tie-on, how a size 4 Panther Martin with a smooth silver blade digs deeper without tail hair, and when to pivot to a subtle drift with trout magnets or natural-tone PowerBait on size 12–14 hooks. You’ll hear how to place split shot for different flows, watch the line for whisper-light takes, and use casting angles to pass through both primary current and the recirculating eddy where fish wait.

We also cover cold-weather strategy beyond the tackle: dressing to stay out longer, taking warm-up breaks, and timing trips for mid-morning sun when a tiny temperature bump can flip the switch. Expect a practical map for finding productive stretches—fast water pouring into deeper runs, eddies that feed back upstream, and long glides that stay open while others skim with ice. Whether you’re pivoting from saltwater or returning to roots on PA creeks, you’ll leave with a winter pattern you can trust and a short list of spots to build into your annual milk run.

Enjoyed this one? Follow the show, share it with a friend who needs a winter plan, and drop your best cold-water trout photo or tip in the comments. Your reviews help more anglers find the podcast—leave one and tell us your go-to winter lure.

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Episode Transcript

Chris Matuson (00:00):
I'm looking for, you know, any type of sweeping
water that goes into an eddyeventually dumps into a deep
pocket.
I'm not going to fish that deeppocket because they're probably
not going to be there.
And again, with gin clearwater, you can see all the way
down, so you can see whetherthere's fish there or not.
But you know, I'm definitelylooking for structure in those
streams.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (00:24):
Hello and welcome back to the Fat Dad
Fishing Show.
My name's Rich Natoli, yourregular host.
And we're doing the showbecause it's too cold to go
fishing for as long as you wantto every day.
So we may as well kick back ona Monday and talk about it.
And uh tonight I'm going to bejoined by Chris Matusin, and
we're going to talk freshwaterand trout fishing in the colder

(00:48):
months.
And this is a really good topicbecause look, if you're
anything like me and you'realmost totally dedicated to
saltwater, it's really tough toget on the water right now.
And what makes it tough is whatyou really have going, you
know, not even for very long,because especially in New
Jersey, you're going to lose thestrike bay, uh the strike bass

(01:09):
in the back bays.
Uh, you really're going to beon a boat.
You're going to be on a boatall day.
And it's it's a tough time ofyear to do that.
Uh trips are getting blown outleft and right, they're getting
canceled because it's too cold,so people aren't filling the
boats.
Uh, so one thing that you cando, and one thing that I look
forward to doing is when thingsget oppressive around the

(01:30):
holidays, and you need to getout, you need to just get some
rest, some relaxation, just sometime on the water, why not
winter trout?
Because this is the time tocatch them.
And Chris is going to gothrough with us exactly how to
do that.
Uh, so as we get ready forChris to come on in just a
moment, we're gonna talk aboutthe sponsors.
We have Great Bay Outfitters onRadio Road in Tuckerton, New

(01:52):
Jersey.
Paul and his team, man, ifyou're looking for anything
kayak related, check out GreatBay Outfitters first, one of the
largest dealers in the entireregion.
And you're gonna look at uhnative Old Town.
Those are the new kayaksCrescent, the new Crescent
skiff.
He's got it.
He just got in, I think I sawtoday, he got 130 boats in

(02:15):
today.
So if you want stock over theholidays, get it ready, get it
tricked out and prepared for thespring.
You definitely want to checkout Great Bay Outfitters.
Quad State Tune, Kevin Driscollis your guy if you have a
Toyota truck.
Tacoma Tundra 4Runner, theLexus 460, 470, these tunes for
the engines.

(02:35):
Uh they're great engines inthese trucks.
They're great trucks, but theythey can have some issues where
you can you can lose a littlebit of torque and everything.
But if you get these tunes, youget more torque, you're getting
more horsepower, better fuelefficiency, smoother shifting.
If you're hauling a boat, ifyou're hauling a trailer for
work, this is something that youshould probably look into.

(02:56):
Give Kevin a call, 44-633-5975.
And then real estate, you haveme with Weikert Realtors
Cornerstone out of the office inBluebell, also out of the
office in Collegeville.
As a matter of fact, if there'sa cornerstone office, I'm
probably working out of it.
Uh southeastern Pennsylvania,any anything residential, real
estate related, give me a call,give me a text, 267-270-1145.

(03:21):
Happy to help you out, happy totake any referrals of people
that you know.
And one thing I'm gonna say, Iam unlike most tenured realtors.
I absolutely love working withfirst-time buyers.
So if there's a first-timebuyer, I just love working with
them.
I've got I've got a couple thatare closing in about two weeks.

(03:42):
And I'm it just it's just somuch fun to get people into
their first house and go throughthat whole process with them.
So let me know.
Last thing I want to say beforewe bring on Chris is this.
We had last week, we had Stephfrom Sport Fishing Outlet on
Germantown Pike in East Norton,Pennsylvania.
Local shop you should bechecking out.

(04:03):
And if it's not your localshop, it's mine.
It's literally right down thestreet from me.
It's 10 minutes from my office.
So I'm in there way too often.
I was in there the other day,was talking to talking to some
guys for way too long.
But he has on SFO, so sportfishing outlet, SFOTackle.com.

(04:23):
If you put in the codeFATDAD15, you're going to get a
15% off.
And for full disclosure,because I want you to know what
I am making off of this and whatI'm not, I'm getting zero for
that.
I am, as you know, if you're areturning viewer or listener, I
really believe in supportinglocal businesses and it's the

(04:46):
backbone of the sport.
And Sport Fishing Outlet is onethat you should be checking out
for anything freshwater andsalt water.
I'm I'm gonna tell you thatChris, even though he does not
live anywhere near here, he's apatron of Sport Fishing Outlet.
I'm sure he'll confirm it.
Let me bring him on right now.
Chris, good to see you, man.

(05:07):
My guy, how are you, Rich?
Doing great.
I'm looking forward to this.
I'm I'm branching back out intothe freshwater in a big way.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
You know, I don't even think about anything else
this time of year, even thoughbackorder strike bass hasn't
closed yet.
I can't do that until the endof the year, but come the middle
of November, it's all it's allabout trowel fishing the last
couple years up in Pennsylvania.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (05:29):
So yeah, and and you've you've
caught some really nice one.
I'm gonna put some pictures upas we go into this.
There, as a matter of fact,they they are uploading right
now as as we talk.
But one of the things that, youknow, one of the things that I
really want to stress is we allget this itch for fishing.
And for a lot of the saltwaterguys, it's like it's saltwater,

(05:52):
it's saltwater, it's saltwater.
I'm never going back tofreshwater, or it's the
opposite.
It's only freshwater, neversalt water.
And this is really a greatoption for especially this time
of year, because this is when,as far as I'm concerned, this is
the best time for trout.
And it's a quick trip.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yeah, it's it's definitely not an all-day trip,
especially with the temperaturesthat we had last winter.
And obviously, we're on a trekthis winter for it not to be too
mild.
So it's, you know, a couplehours and you get your fix and
get some nice fish most of thetime and and call it a day.
But it's definitely better thanwhat I used to do and and just

(06:31):
sit around for the couple wintermonths and you know, go through
tackle, look at photos, and youknow, that just wasn't getting
it.
So I went back to my originalpassion, and that was trout
fishing in PA.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (06:43):
Yeah, well, and you're you're from
PA, so you're familiar with thestreams, and and that I think is
one of the biggest barriers toentry when you're talking about
legit trout fishing, you know,because a lot of people, they're
just out there as soon as thestocking trucks leave.
And, you know, and then they'redone.
You know, once the stock troutare fished out or they think

(07:05):
they're fished out and it's notshoulder to shoulder anymore,
they just stop.
I mean, they stop in the summerand they just don't start again
until the opening of trout thenext year.
And I want to talk to you, Iwant to make sure that we talk
about uh exactly what we need tolook for when we're looking for
a spot.
But as but as we're going intothis, let's let's put uh on here

(07:28):
some of the pictures.
So this is the cover picture.
I mean, we're talking qualityfish here, right?

Speaker 3 (07:34):
I mean, this is this is not yeah, these are all like
you know, 15 to 17 inch fish,and and you could tell like
they're they're they're thick.
Um you know, one branch I fish,they do not get a winter
stocking anymore.
They the or fall stocking.
They used to, but after COVID,that pretty much stopped.
There's another branch, the theWest branch that, I'm sorry,

(07:57):
the east branch that they dostock in the fall, but that's
catch and release only.
But I like going to, but that'swhere most of the people go,
right?
It's kind of like striped assfishermen.
A lot of them, they go when theblitzes are happening, and then
the rest of the time, you know,they'll kind of sit around when
the migration in the spring orthe fall isn't happening, and
they'll sit around through thoseflow periods.
But this is when I like to go,is when nobody's really around,

(08:19):
and you get the the holdoversfrom the spring, and we can
touch later on about brooktrout.
And, you know, I like targetingthem, even though a lot of
those are not as big.
But in February, I get a lot ofthose that have you know
spawned and whatnot.
And you know, they again theymay not be quite the size, but
you know, they're a great fightand and they breed right in the
stream.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (08:39):
So yeah, yeah.
And here's here's some more.
You know, Chris, it's funny.
I was looking for a picturewith you in it, the the old
striper pick, but you don't needto do that with the trout.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
You know, you know, I I used to years ago, but by the
time you get a camera set up,and I'm not as advanced as as
you guys are with the uh, youknow, and I don't do GoPros, I
don't do you know stuff likethat.
You know, people talk aboutstriped bass being out of the
water too long.
Trout are super, supersensitive.

(09:11):
Yeah, you know, winter months,it's not as bad because the the
water's cold.
They love cold water, they'recold water fish, so they will,
you know, survive pretty good.
But again, you know, you theyhave very delicate mouse, and
sometimes a spinner or jerk baitgoes in there a little far.
You know, even though the onesthat are up on the rocks, the
the water is literally, youknow, inches away.

(09:33):
Right.
So I just take the quick pickand get them in.
But no, from the last five orsix years, maybe even deeper
than that, I don't have anypictures of me with the trout,
unfortunately.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (09:44):
So yeah, well, and that's okay.
I mean, that's not why you'rethere, right?

Speaker 3 (09:48):
No, right, right, exactly.
And and most of the trout Icatch, I don't even take any
photos, you know, just you know,one or two of the biggest ones
of the day, I I I kind of justtake pictures of and you know,
put them with collages I have.
But, you know, fall Novemberthrough February is really my
favorite time to fish, you know,for multiple reasons.
It's it's really not stockfishthat we're that we're catching,

(10:10):
so they're not easier to target.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Right.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
And you know, I'll run into maybe a few guys, but
there's some days I go up andthere's uh two miles of stream I
fished, I I don't pass oneperson, so it's therapy, let
alone catching fish.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (10:26):
So that that's my kind of fishing.
I want to bring up thispicture, and there's listening,
uh you don't need to see it, butuh the one on the left and and
the baits, you know.
I I we're gonna talk about whatyou're tossing as well, but I
thought it was interesting tosee.
Well, you can see it on theright too, what you're fishing

(10:46):
now as compared to what youmight be fishing in the spring
and in the summer.
So I want to get into that.
But let's start at the verybeginning because I I did get
some feedback for some from somepeople who said never thought
one of them said basically this,it's not a quote, but never
thought I'd be excited for afreshwater freshwater stream,

(11:06):
but after the last one, I'm nowso looking forward to trout.
I think I want to try it.
So this is this is a guy who'snever fished, uh actually is
going to start.
So he's going, he needs to buyeverything, he needs to figure
out where he's gonna go.
So I want to kind of make thisfor those types of people.
And in the chat, if people haveanything that you want to add,

(11:28):
please do that as well.
So at least the you know, thethe people watching it live or
the replay can see what you'resaying if you have anything to
share.
But uh let's start off withthis.
First of all, this weatherright now, you know, it's 30
degrees outside, it's cold, it'scold weather.
How are you dressing whenyou're going out and how long
are you planning to be out foreach trip on the water?

Speaker 3 (11:52):
So the the I I usually try to plan four hours.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
You know, spring, other times of the year, you
know, I go up for six or sevenhours, but usually uh four solid
hours, but but that means, youknow, that could also mean
multiple trips back to the car,too, because I don't I I I've
I've seen people, but I can'twear gloves when I do this type
of fishing.
You know, you're usingtwo-pound line, four-pound line,

(12:18):
four and a half to a five and ahalf foot ultra-light rod, and
five and a half is reallypushing it.
I I'd like to go with the fourand a half because with the
jerkbaits and the spinners, youget you know a lot more
sensitivity with that.
And I think you can get them togo deeper with the lures when
you use those those light rods.
Um, sweat jackets, t-shirts,thick, thick stormer jacket, you

(12:42):
know, like the thickest onethey made is is the one I wear.
I don't wear neoprene waiters,some guys do in the winter time.
Yeah, but to be honest, thelast couple years with how low
the streams have been, I'mreally not getting in the water
too much.
Early spring, early, I'm sorry,late winter, like last March,
myself and my brother went up.

(13:04):
Water was deeper because we didget a lot of rain in March up
there, and there was a heavyflow, and and we froze.
I mean, our uh from the waistdown, we couldn't feel anything
for probably almost three hours.
We had uh the guys werefreezing, the lion was freezing,
and we caught one fish all day.
But again, it was it was very,very satisfying because we're

(13:28):
you're you're catching fish whenreally, unless you're a diehard
child fisherman, you think thatyou can't catch fish, but you
know, they're they're cold waterfish anyway.
So, but you're you're dressingvery, very warm because it's
gonna make a real crappy tripand it's gonna make a real short
trip if you don't dress for it.
But but I'm not beyond goingback to the car, putting the

(13:49):
heat on, putting the heatedsteering wheel on, you know, for
20 minutes and and and havingsomething to drink and getting
something to eat and going backout.
I mean, you need to prepare todo that because like a day like
today, I can't really stay outthere for four hours without
warming up.
Again, if you have gloves on,sure, but I just can't I I I

(14:12):
can't do two or four-pound linewith gloves.
But you you definitely have todress for it and and and a mask
on too.
The the what are they called?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (14:19):
The uh gator.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
The gators, I gotta have a gator because I have to
be able to cover my ears.
Because for me, that's thefirst thing that goes is my ears
and my fingers.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
If I'm not in the water too much, even though I
always have chest waiters on,because you know, again, you
have accidents, you you know,you have a lot of leaves laying
this time of year if you getrain.
Or, you know, last winter, lastcouple years I've been up there
with snow on the ground.
It gets very slippery goingdown those embankments if I'm
not walking the stream the wholeway.
So, you know, you have to youhave to dress from the waist up

(14:51):
or it's not gonna be fun.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing (14:52):
I I've got uh mine is neoprene
stocking foot.
And then I I wear corkers andwhen I now I haven't done it in
years, but when I'm fishing thecreeks in the cold weather, I'm
wearing corkers because of thoserocks and everything.
So I have the I don't have thecorkers that you put on the uh

(15:14):
the you know the bootfootwaiters, I have the the actual
boots.
So that's what I have.
And then the stormer, gosh,what is it?
The the waterproof, whateverthe waterproof I think it's the
highest end one.

Speaker 3 (15:28):
Yeah, mine's the heavy neoprene one.
Yeah, that's what I again.
It's not the most comfortable,especially when you're throwing
jerk baits and you're throwingPanther Martins and whatnot for
for long periods of time, right?
Because you kind of lose rangeof motion, your shoulders start
to hurt, you got a backpack on.
It's like, but again, this typeof fishing is not it's not for

(15:49):
someone that thinks it's goingto be easy.
And you know, there's dayswhere I've gone up and you know,
I've gone solo and got eight orten trout.
I've gone with my brother andwe've gotten, you know, 15 or 16
fish between the two of us.
But then there's days whereI've gotten nothing, or I've
gotten two years ago, I got a16-inch brook, which and that
was the only fish of the day.

(16:09):
And I was up there an hour,caught that fish, lost a couple
others, but you know what?
I had the biggest smile on myface going home that day.
But again, that was a day whereI had to go back to the car
twice because it was just socold, it never got above 33.
There was a wind chill, and youknow, I felt like it was low
20s all day.
So not for the fan.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (16:27):
If you were up here today, you'd
have the wind and you'd have thehigh water.
And yeah, you'd you'd bebattling it.
All right, so you're wearingjust the standard stuff, think
surf gear basically.
Correct.
Uh just for the fresh water.
Now, let me let me ask youthis.
Let's talk somebody they again,they don't have anything.
Are there any, I don't know ifyou use entry, what rods you

(16:48):
use, what what type of rod?
You you'd mentioned a four anda half, maybe five foot, but the
shorter the better.
And I'm assuming that's becauseyou're in under branches and
and all that, so you need to beable to swing it.
Is that right?

Speaker 3 (17:00):
Correct.
There's definitely, you know,the the the one branch I fish
there is not, it's definitelynot a fly rod fly rod fisherman
branch, so you don't see manyfly rod guys unless they, you
know, have corkers on and andand a walking cane and walk out
to the middle and do that.
But you know, most sections, tobe honest, they're if I if I
flick underhand real hard, I'mhitting the other bank.

(17:22):
It's not like a lot of thosestreams down by Philly that are
really, really wide in certainsections.
You know, I don't fish manysections where I can't get to
the other side basically bydoing an underhand cast.
So yeah, I that's why I go withthe the the shorter rod with a
real a real light tip on it.

(17:42):
I do have ones that arestiffer, but again, this time of
year, you really have to go byfeel and watch the line because
they're not super aggressive attimes.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
But the most sensitive, you know, I do have
an IM6 one piece, five and ahalf, that that I will use, but
again, it depends on what I'mthrowing.
Yeah, I I'm not againstthrowing power bait either,
because to be honest, there'scertain periods in the winter
where if the water's low and thethere's just not enough flowing

(18:15):
water for me to get themovement on a jerk bait or on a
spinner, and you just there's aslight drift, and I will go to
power bait.
I I hate going to power baitbecause I do not like fishing
that way.
But again, it's really nodifferent than fishing a trout
magnet, you know, drifting itdown.

(18:37):
Because again, I'm not fishingholes, I'm fishing moving water
that has eddies off to the side,or then kind of just, you know,
slows down and goes into somedeeper pockets.
But so I kind of fish that theway I do a trout magnet and just
kind of bounce it on thebottom, not really let it sit.
But those are, you know, thatthat's really my go-to is a four

(19:00):
and a half to five and a halffoot rod, a micro-size reel, two
to four-pound test line.
Some guys will say, uh, youknow, they they still use braid
and put a four-pound leader on.
I have no time for that becausea lot of times you're getting
caught up in the rocks.
And again, you need to beprepared.
If it's a stream you don'tknow, you're gonna get hung up,
you're gonna get hung up intrees, you're gonna cast onto

(19:22):
the other side, get into thebank.
Boulders that usually you'renot gonna get hung up on if the
creeks are higher.
Right now, they are not.
So even me, where I know thesestreams like the back of my the
back of my head, the first 45minutes is usually a learning
curve of where am I gettingstuck, where am I not, what type
of drift?
If I have to go to power bait,what size split shot am I using?

(19:45):
If I'm using a a jerk bait, doI have to weigh that down?
Inner size, am I using a sizetwo?
Am I using a size four?
Sometimes guys use smaller, butagain, I'm not looking for
small fish this time of year.
And and to be honest, there'snot really small fish left.
The only fish left have havebeen in there maybe for a few

(20:09):
years, and they've really theyreally chunked up over uh the
last couple months.
They've eaten everything that'sbeen thrown into the stream.
They're eating everythingthat's come down in the heavy
storms over the summer, andthey're just sitting there in
the current, just waiting foranother meal.
And those fish are from lastmonth and and they are not stock
fish in the fall again becausethey don't they don't stock this

(20:31):
branch in the fall.
The last stocking was end ofApril, beginning of May.
And you know, they've theythey've evaded people and and
they're pretty smart by now.
They know what to bite, whatnot to bite, and they know
there's not a lot of stuff beingthrown out there now.
So it's a lot of casting anglesand you know just knowing the
proper spots in the current.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (20:50):
Yeah, I mean that's the thing.
The dumbfish have been caught.
And the dumbfish are the smallfish.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yeah.
You know, and even the biggerones they put in the spring, you
know, you can see them becausethey've been in there for weeks,
and and usually where they putthem in, they're still setting
if you don't get any big stormsthat wash them downstream.
And you know, that's anotherthing this time of year is a lot
of people target those thosespots where they stock.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
There are at least where I go and my experience,
though that's just a waste oftime.
I go downstream as far as I cango where I can find some nice
waterfalls that go into nicedeep holes, some nice rapids
there.
And it's not out of thequestion to go two or three

(21:39):
miles down in areas where theydon't stock because you have
everything as washed.
So even though a lot of guysthat do go out this time of the
year, they stick to the areasthat are stocked, but that's
really not where you're going tocatch anything.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fi (21:53):
Right.
Okay.
So let's before we get into thespecific spots, let's talk a
little bit.
Okay, let's let's just talk thepower bait because this will be
a quick one.
Are you what what specificpower bait are you using?
Are you using like the littlepower bait mealworms?
Are you using just the powerbait, you know, whatever the
putty stuff?
What are you what are youusing?

Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yeah, form in my hand.
And and colors depend on waterclarity.
I mean, I've never been a I'venever liked chartreuse.
I've never liked, you know,pink or you know, mine is my
go-to is always the natural offyellow cheese color.
As natural as you can get,because again, I I think with

(22:34):
freshwater trout, it's about thenatural environment.
It's not about, you know,again, some people will differ,
but my experience is I go withsomething as natural that would
really belong in the stream.
Now, if it's muddied up, right,and it's difficult seeing, you
know, maybe chartreuse or a hotpink or something like that.

(22:56):
But but usually uh I catch 90%of my fish if I have to go to
that on just a natural, naturalcolor.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (23:04):
Okay.
And okay, so you're usingyou're forming it on the hook.
What size hook are you using?

Speaker 3 (23:10):
As probably like a 12.
A 12 or a 14, like like micro,micro size hooks.
Again, they will try to get thepower bait off.
You have to make sure that youknow, you're again, it's a whole
science, right?
It depends on if it's fastwater, if it's slow water, how

(23:32):
how hungry they are, howaggressive they are.
Sometimes you won't even feelit.
You won't feel the line move,you won't see the line move.
You know, you'll just think,well, I've been out there for
you know four or five minutes,and I don't let it sit out there
for 10 minutes either.
Some people will let it sit.
Me, three, three minutes is mymax.
And then I'll go for anotherdrift.
But you know, many a times youpick it up and there's a 15-inch

(23:55):
trout on the other end, and hehas given zero signs.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
Right.
Just pick fit and stat.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
Right.
That's where this time of yearis different from spring and and
early fall, is you're stillkind of aggressive.
So you will, you know, get thethe bing on the end of the rod,
or or you'll see that, you know,all of a sudden it's it's tout
and then it goes slack, or viceversa.
But, you know, again, andthat's why when you pick up, you

(24:22):
just don't pick up like there'snothing on there.
You're just gonna, you know,you gotta just pick up, and if
it's tight on the other end,assume it's a fish and not a
snag, and you know, just not areal hard aggressive motion, and
just start re-on and a lot oftimes you'll be surprised that
they're there.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (24:36):
So okay.
All right, and you're justsplit shotting above it based on
the the flow.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
Right.
And the type of flow depends onwhere the split shot goes.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Right.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
If if if the flow is not good at all, then the split
shot is gonna go like basicallymaybe this high above.
Because I don't tie my hooksdirectly.
I still use hooks with a leaderon it, and then I tie that to
my line.
So right above where I tiethat, maybe this high is where
I'm putting that split shot.
But if I have a heavy flow,then you know I'm gonna go

(25:10):
higher because the I want theweight to go down and set.
I don't want it just to getswept.
I want it to go down faster,but I want my bait to still kind
of stay up.
But if I really need to get itdown quick, because there's
gonna be no current later on,you know, 15 or 20 feet, and I
want to get it down fast, I'llput that split shot literally

(25:32):
right on top.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (25:33):
Okay, very good.
And question from my buddy TimMurray.
Do you ever use live bait?

Speaker 3 (25:39):
So minnows.
I love using minnows.
I've caught my biggest browntrout to date on a nightcrawler,
just free lining it.
No weight, no nothing, hookingit just in the end and letting,
and it was literally anightcrawler this long.
Uh at least, I mean, it won'tfit on the screen, but but

(26:01):
probably almost a foot long.
And he was just drifting in thecurrent.
But again, it was it was asection of that same creek where
it comes down the rapids,right?
Drops into a real, real deephole, and then gradually, you
know, it's still fast current,but then gradually it goes into
shallower water.
And I was just, you know,hitting it in there, and I found

(26:22):
an area where I could kind ofget it swept under boulders
before it would really getcaught up in that shallow water
and and caught my biggest fishon that.
But you know, we've usednightcrawlers, we use me worms,
yeah, things like that, youknow.
But but again, I've gotten awayfrom that because I just love
the same way with me inSaltwood.

(26:42):
I just love the artificials.
There's nothing like,especially with the jerkbaits
and and Stefanos and Yanni,those guys from SFO, they are
the ones that turned me on tothe jerkbaits a couple years
ago, where I would see guys thatwould go into their shop and
they would post photos with thejerkbaits, and I'm like, man,
I'm jerkbaits in the wintertime.
Like, how is that?

(27:03):
And you know what, they'rethey've been a game changer for
me.
But, you know, again, the theminnows are great.
Trout minnows, you tend to geta lot more bites on those
because they are smaller size,but they're very, very fragile.
I, to be honest, and again, Iguess I'm giving out too many
secrets, but again, there's nota whole lot of guys from down
here that are going up thefissure streams that I go to.

(27:25):
And and people that live whereI grew up at, they're not coming
down here to get saltwaterminnows and then going back up.
But I I take up saltwaterminnows, and those minnows are
game changers.
You know, I'm not using thereal, real big ones that that
I'll, you know, I'll go to ChrisBalaban's place in Summers
Point and and I'll siphonthrough and and take the smaller

(27:45):
ones up.
And they stay alive a lotlonger, uh, they're a lot more
active in the water.
And they uh I catch a uh aboatload of freshwater trout on
saltwater minnows.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fi (27:57):
That's great.
So let me ask you this.
So you're making a it it's apretty long trip for you to get.
I know where you go.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
Hour 45 minutes.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (28:05):
Yep.
Hour 45.
So you're bringing minnows up,let's say.
Are you doing the old put themin a cooler on the cooler packs
with the saltwater rag, and thenyou put the you lay them on top
of that, and then you fold therag over top so they're they're
on basically the cooler blocksin the cooler, or are you just
keeping them in like a live wellwith a with the aerator?

Speaker 3 (28:29):
So I have an aerator on it.
Yep.
I have uh, you know, a plug-inone in my garage, like you know,
an aerator you'd put in yourfish tank, and then I have a
portable one too.
So yeah, I use a portable, II've gone up before without it,
yeah, but they tend to not bequite as active from the lack of
oxygen from the almost two-hourride.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (28:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
I definitely keep them aerated the entire way up.
But then obviously when I getto the creek, I'm leaving the
aerator in the car and just youknow taking them streamside with
me.
But you know, it's a little bitof a chore because again, you
know, you're you're bringing theminnow bucket with you.
I'm climbing down hills thatare uh very, very steep, where

(29:10):
if you have both hands tied up,it can really lead to bad
things.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Right.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
So I'm very cautious when I bring them up.
If I can walk the entire creek,it's easier for me to bring
those up.
But again, you get storms thatyou guys have gotten in PA the
last couple years, and I can gonext week, and it looks totally
different from what it was twoyears ago because a lot of those
trees that have been therehundreds of years now are laying
across the stream or across thebank, and you know, it's very

(29:38):
difficult the the contour, butthere's some spots that always I
can I can climb down.
But it it's tough if I haveminnows, so I I try to avoid it.
Yeah, but you know, I I dobring those if I can.
But you know, nightcrawlers andand mealworms, again, I I don't
fish them as much as I did whenI was younger.
I always used to bring them up,always would stop at the Turkey

(29:59):
Hill close by, and you know,they have a bait section there
and buy them, and and to alwayshave a diverse selection, but I
really feel that now withoutgoing that route, the jerk
baits, the spinners, the thetrout magnets, and again, I know
we talked about power bait, andthere's a lot of haters out
there that you know, guys thatuse power bait, that's really

(30:20):
not true trout fishing.
Well, we could say that aboutguys that that bunker fish,
right?
Or use that.
Yeah, I don't I don't see anissue.
Yeah, that you're really notcatching fish either.
So let's not hate on the powerbait.
But you know, in the wintertimein the dead of winter, you may
not have a choice.
So I'd rather go to the powerbait if I have to, but again,
I'm not starting with that.

(30:41):
Right.
Doing due diligence for thefirst hour or two in multiple
spots with different types oflures, different casting angles,
different depths.
But if they are glued to thebottom, I'm switching over
instead of going home and notcatching anything because that's
really not an option.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fi (30:57):
Right, right.
Now, I I'm right there withyou.
I mean, I'll toss whatever Ineed to toss, and I I don't feel
bad about it.
I mean, it is what it is.
If you want to catch fish,sometimes you got to do what the
fish want and not what youwant.
That's really what it comesdown to.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
And the and the minnows, when you get to really
not early spring, late winter,because remember, up there, same
way in in in New Jersey, Iguess, but I don't try fish down
here, is you know, you get thatit closes the second week of
February on stock branches.
So it's really a race againstthe clock after the first of the
year that you know you get someat least somewhat bearable

(31:33):
weather.
Like last winter, there reallywasn't any bearable weather.
I I did go up, but it was very,very difficult.
The year prior, I had a lot ofwindows, the end of January,
beginning of February.
And actually, the first twoweeks of February is my favorite
time to go.
Yeah, that is the best timebecause you've really haven't
seen any pressure at all, noteven from local diehards that

(31:54):
want to get out there in thewinter.
And, you know, I find a lot ofbrook trout the beginning of
February, too.
And and pound for pound forpound, even even beyond Brown's
brooks fight a lot better.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing (32:06):
A lot better.
Well, I'm down for some brooktrout.
I I'm I'm blessed to be aroundsome good trout streams, some
stocked, some not.
And there are some spots that Iwant to check out.
But before that, let's beforewe get into the the choosing of
the spots and the type of watersthat you're looking for, let's
talk about.
We talked about the the bait.

(32:26):
All right.
So the bait's covered, butreally what I want to dive into
is what are the artificials thatyou're using?
And let's focus first, not justtrout, but you know, this time
of year, the cold weather.
What's the first thing thatyou're tying on when you're
gonna go and hit one of thesestreams?

Speaker 3 (32:43):
Like a two and a half inch dirt bait.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (32:45):
Okay.
Um is there a brand that youlike?
So two and a half inch, isthere a brand in color?

Speaker 3 (32:50):
So trout magnet, whatever that company is.
I guess it's trout magnet,right?
Is that who makes those?
I don't know.
It's I don't know.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing (32:57):
I can look it up as you're
talking.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
So it's the same section that you buy trout
magnets because trout magnets,you know, now they have now they
have worms, they have alldifferent, you know, it's it's
not just the the historic, youknow, the the little trout
magnets.
They they make all differentranges now.
So whether it's Mr.
Trout, trout magnet, whatever,but it's usually in the same
section, same maker.

(33:19):
And but you know, Rappola, youknow, they all make those tiny,
slim jerk baits.
You even have a lot ofindependent companies that make
just you know, trout lures arelike trip magnet, but they're
individual guys, a lot of guysthat make trappijs, right?
They make they make hard baits.
So I'm not really stuck on abrand.
I really don't like endorse anytype of those uh brands because

(33:42):
if I find one that works,that's what I'm using.
And again, I have multiplecolors, but I'm going on a
minnow type pattern, maybe someflash on the bottom, right?
I don't care whether it's pinkor you know, a little bit of
green on the bottom, but the thetop of the minnow, you know, I
want it to look natural in thestream because usually you're
getting crystal, crystal,crystal clear water.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
In the wintertime, I mean, like that big brook trout
I got two years ago, I saw himcoming from 15 feet away where
any other time of the year, youjust it's like when you first go
to the surf in the spring andit's just gin gin clear.
It's the same way the streamsare.
So to me, I want mypresentation to be as natural as
possible.
But the last couple years, I'vetied that tiny jerkbait on.

(34:27):
Now, I used to use ones with afatter profile, wasn't getting
anything, but I went when I wentto the slim ones that are just
very, very, you know, there'sjust very slim.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (34:38):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
Yeah, that's the first thing I'm tying on.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (34:42):
All right, so trout magnet jerk
bait, two and a half inch.
Natural colors if you can getthem.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
Yep.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (34:50):
And what's your number two that
you're going to use?

Speaker 3 (34:56):
A number four Panther Martin with a I knew that was
coming in.
Yeah, yeah, again, I don'tchange I don't change the the
blade size, really, to behonest, based on water depth.
I I've been doing it so long Ican throw a four blade across
shallow water and not get itstuck.
So I just think it it givesmore vibration in the water, and

(35:20):
it'll you can also get it downdeeper, where now they're really
not setting higher in the watercolumn, either in even in the
running water, they're not, youknow, they're not really,
they're not moving, they're notchasing.
So you need to kind of get itdown in front of their face, and
the number four blade does itfor me.
I used to really be hooked on abronze blade with the black and

(35:44):
yellow polka dot on the on theon the shaft of it.
But you know, my brother reallyoutfished me the last two years
with the silver blade.
And so really just you know,silver blade, but I do not fish
ones with hair on the tail, andI'll tell you why.
They look good, right?

(36:04):
And you would think that thatwould be okay, and it does if
the fish are shallow, but nomatter what size blade you have
on there, that hair is gonnamake it stay higher in the water
column.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Right.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
I want to get it deeper, so I just put that big
blade one on there, and as soonas it hits the water, I have my
rod down toward the water, andI'm cranking it and getting it
down there as quick as I can.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (36:30):
Okay.
So, all right, so that thenumber four Panther Martin, no
hair on it, silver.
Yep.
Are you using do you care ifthe blade is hammered or if it's
smooth?
Does that matter to you?

Speaker 3 (36:45):
No, it doesn't really matter.
I mean, you know, most of thetime the ones I fish they're
smooth.
There's on one branch I fished,like I can, it's tough for me
on the one branch to use inlinespinners, right?
Because I think you have tohave more distance to really get
that going through the water.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
Right.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
Uh where a Panther Martin, it's like instantly, as
soon as it hits the water, youflip the bell.
The first crank, you're alreadycreating vibration.
Right.
Uh so inline spinners, I findmore of those with the you know,
the hammered blades on them.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
But you know, rooster tails, same thing.
If I have more distance where Ican fish, I think you have an
easier time getting them downinto the water column with the
hair than you do the PantherMartin, just because it's like a
longer profile, the the lureitself.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Right.

Speaker 3 (37:31):
My brother, he got his biggest brown ever this this
spring on a rooster tail.
I'm like, what are you doingusing a rooster tail?
We don't use rooster tails.
And he tied a rooster tail on.
Is it a rooster tail or it waslike a blue Eure or one of those
type of things?
But it looked just like arooster tail.
And you know, what do I know?
He he he pulled out you knowhis biggest roosters.
He's caught in years, so butyou know, the the the the the

(37:55):
Panther Martin, the uh the thethe jerkbait, two and a half
inch trout magnets, you knowwhat?
I really don't use a lot ofthose.
I don't some guys just have alot of luck.
I I don't, but other than thosetwo lures, I I really don't go
to a lot of other stuff.
I have a ton of stuff in mybag, but I find a lot of success

(38:16):
with those.
And again, if I'm not catchingit on those two lures, I'm
probably going over and andunfortunately using some paste.
Because if I'm not getting iton those two, then they're
usually not biting anythingelse.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (38:28):
All right, fair enough.
I mean, we don't we don't haveto add more.
If there aren't more to add,let's not add them.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
No, but you know what, you have to adapt it to
the stream that you're on.
You know, I don't want peopleto think that, well, you know, I
go to the stream that that thatI'm on and I've used this and I
don't catch anything and thenlike this guy's full of ship.
There's got to be otheroptions, right?
That's not you you I fish thesestreams since I was, you know,
my father was taking me when Iwas 10, 11 years old, trout

(38:53):
fishman.
So I understand the streams, Iknow it works, even the colors,
right?
The natural habit, right?
A stream that has a lot ofcrawdads in it, right?
Usually it's a good smallmouthpopulation.
Um, but trout will go afterthose crawdads too.
Maybe they won't eat thecrawdads, right?
But they're gonna chase them.
They're gonna, and you need toresemble what's in that stream.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (39:15):
So I've caught trout on on little
crayfish.

Speaker 3 (39:18):
Yeah, well, you know, my brother has these little and
and they're like they're littleplastic and they're they're
real tiny uh crawl dads.
They're and he, I'm like, ah,they you know, they look like
they would really work andwhatever.
And he the first cast lastyear, and he pulled out a
16-inch rainbow.
So you know, uh again, I haveoptions in the bag, but this

(39:41):
time of year I have to try tokeep busy because if I'm just
like slow drifting, my hands aregonna go fast.
I have to be so I don't I don'tmind throwing and throwing and
throwing.
But again, if just because youthrow five or six times in the
same spot and they don't bite,right?
That's what you do in thesprint.
If they're not there, they'renot aggressive.
Let's move down a little bit.

(40:03):
Here, I know where I'm going.
I'm 100% sure that there isfish there.
There is, I, there's zerochance that those fish are not
there.
Right.
We haven't gotten any rain.
We haven't gotten any rain towash them.
The water is not deep enoughfor them to move downstream.
I know where they're at.
And the ones I've caught, thebig ones the last month and a

(40:23):
half, I've put them back.
So they're not, you know, andthe people that do, I do, I know
that do go, they're notharvesting this time of year.
They're they're usually puttingback too.
So those fish are there, andthere's a lot more in there than
what I've even caught.
So it's just a lot of patience,a lot of casting, changing the
angle, right?
Because again, they're sittingfacing current.
So just coming across currentmay not be doing it.

(40:46):
Sometimes, you know, you'recasting downstream and back up
because even though thecurrent's going, you know, to
the right, you have the eddythat comes back up towards you.
So now they're sitting in theopposite direction.
So it's just a lot of patience,but you really have to know the
stream that you're going on tounderstand what's going to work
and what's not.
But even a stream that Ihaven't been on before, I'm

(41:08):
going with that Panther Martinregardless.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (41:10):
Okay.
So let's talk about the spotsnow as we come to, we're at
almost 45 minutes.
So let's let's talk about thespecific spots.
So we're we're geared up.
We got we're dress warm.
We got the rod, the reel, thelight line.
We've got a Panther Martin onthere or a trout magnet or
something like that.
Now we're hitting the water.
What are you specificallylooking for?

(41:31):
Let's start at the macro level.
Like what type of stream areyou looking for?
Let's say you're going to anarea you've never been to
before, but you can ask anyquestions.
What's the type of stream thatyou're going to want to look
for?

Speaker 3 (41:44):
Uh if it's got some some deep uh running water
pockets.
I mean, that's the biggestthing for me is you know, a
shallow stream or even like astretch that's just shallow,
shallow, shallow, shallow, whereI can just see bottom.
Not saying again that there'snothing there, but that's not
what I'm going to target thistime of year because they're
they're sitting there in theirwinter holes where they're

(42:04):
really not going to move toomuch, but they want that oxygen
oxygenated water that even whenother parts of the creek are
going to freeze, this isn'tgoing to freeze over, and that's
where they're going to be.
So, you know, that's what I'mlooking for.
I'm looking for bends.
I'm looking for, you know, anytype of sweeping water that goes
into an eddy, eventually dumpsinto a deep pocket.

(42:24):
I'm not going to fish that deeppocket because they're probably
not going to be there.
And again, with Jim Clearwater, you can see all the way
down.
So you can see whether there'sfish there or not.
But, you know, I'm definitelylooking for a structure in those
streams.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (42:37):
Okay.
And and when you're looking atthese, you know, as far as the
you're saying shallow water,deep water, what what are you
considering deep water pockets?
Like what depth?

Speaker 3 (42:50):
Uh uh again, it depends on the stream.
Absolutely.
But even these deep waterpockets, you know, on on this
stream I'm talking about, evenat at max flow, it's probably
probably four and a half feet atits deepest.
But if I were to go up therelast week, it it may be two and

(43:11):
a half feet.
But but then it also dumps intowater that is barely going over
some rocks.
So anything that's moving anddeeper than what is an eighth of
a mile in front of it.
That's the area I want totarget.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (43:26):
Okay.
That makes sense.
That makes sense.
Do you fish anywhere near theold most of the dams have been
ripped out by now, but do youfish anywhere near dams when
you're up in PA?

Speaker 3 (43:38):
No.
Okay.
No.
You know, Morse Creek in inDowningtown, right?
That's got a spillway thatdumps into the East Brandywine
there.
Yeah.
Um, there was a couple damsalong that.
Not really dams.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad F (43:54):
They're like spillway.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
Yeah, you know, but some of those have been even on
the the branch itself, the fishladders, they've broken down
because of water heights.
They just want to keep itflowing, right?
Because the water just doesn'tstay high enough to go over and
it creates droughts downstream.
So they've knocked a lot ofthose away.
So no, I really don't.
The ones I fish really don't,they don't really have dams.

(44:19):
They don't have fish ladders.
It's just, you know, thenatural contour of the stream
where, you know, now it's goingto hit this mini cliff and just
drop over.
And right below that is usuallywhere I go.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (44:32):
Yeah.
So I was thinking, you know,there are some near here.
I mean, I could walk to acouple where old dams that are
either totally removed orpartially, but they don't really
remove the bottom.
So you get a nice drop-offthere, you know, where where it
was dug out over the past, youknow, 30 years of having a dam

(44:53):
there, it's it's a little bitdeeper.
So it's maybe three and a halfto four feet.

unknown (44:57):
Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (44:57):
And then it comes up into a you
might know exactly the spot thatI'm thinking of right now, but
it then comes up into hugeboulders, like size of a car
boulders.
Sure.
And then it and then it getsreally shallow, but then you get
this deeper area where it getsdown to about three and a half
feet again.
So I'm I'm wondering, should Ibe looking further down near
those boulders, or should I beup to where that old dam was?

Speaker 3 (45:20):
So again, I think it depends on the I think it
depends on the current and andthe and the water height.
Sometimes, you know, if if ifthe water's flowing fast, I'm
going a little past.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
You know, I'm going a little bit further where
because once it slows down,right, then you're gonna start
that's where you're gonna getthat eddy that comes back.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
But if it's real, if it's real slow and the water's
shallow, that eddy is gonna hitfaster.
So then I'm gonna kinda gocloser to you know, the you
know, where the and I guess youknow what, maybe 50, 60 years
ago they were dams because youknow it's it's high on the
sides, right?
It runs over in the center.

(46:00):
But again, 54, as long as I'vebeen fishing those dreams,
there's there's never been damsthere.
Maybe again, 100 years agothere was, but how close I fish
to the actual drop depends onthe water height and how fast
the water is moving.
Yeah, but it's still the samegeneral area, it's still the
same, it's still the samestretch of water.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
Right.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
It just depends how far down that stretch I go.
Depends on the water height andmovement.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad F (46:28):
Gotcha.
So yeah, so there's there's aspot.
There were actually there areseveral near me that are they
look pretty interesting.
Now I've never fished them fortrout.
I fish them for everything frommuskie to I mean smallmouth.
It's that's the the fish ofchoice in in the it's the
Perkyoman Creek.

(46:49):
Yeah.
This this section that I'mtalking about, one of the
branches.
But it it it is veryinteresting because it it get it
does get super shallow.
Sure.
I mean, you can walk across andflip-flops in the summer and
barely get wet.
Yeah, but but it does run acouple feet deep further up, you
know, where it's a lot morenarrow.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
Sure.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (47:07):
And I'm thinking that might be my
first spot.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
100%.
I wouldn't focus on, you know,you get heavy rains after, you
know, do they stock that thatthat creek with trout or no?
Do they stock that?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (47:18):
No, not that branch, no.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
But it but again, you know, I don't know what feeds
into that, but you'd besurprised how many branches of
creek that don't get stockedwind up having trout there.

Rich Natoli - Fat D (47:32):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
You know, my largest trout Icaught in an unstocked my lar I
should say this.
Let me qualify this.
My largest trout in this area,which is stocked, right, was on
an unstocked tributary that wasmaybe a mile and a half off of,
I mean, it was connected tostocked areas, but it was about
a mile and a half off of it.

(47:52):
And it was the largest one thatI caught.
The largest one I ever caughtwas a native in the middle of
the Pennsylvania wilds, likeseven or eight miles in the
middle of nowhere.
I mean, that that was thebiggest one, but you know,
that's not the type of fishingthat I'm doing now.
Uh I'm not sure.

Speaker 3 (48:08):
I mean, like, if you're just starting, if for
someone that's just startingout, it's better to go on a
branch that they do stock.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:15):
Again, a lot of branches they stock, they stock
late fall for their winterstock.
You know, they'll do a Novemberstocking and then they'll do
again in February if it's acatch and release, you know,
artificial lures onlyyear-round, the late harvest
area.
But, you know, go on a stockbranch that, and you'd be
surprised.
Just because you can't seefish, if you say, oh no, it's
fished out, you know, there's aton of holdovers in these

(48:39):
streams.
But again, you have to knowspots to target.
And usually when you find thosespots, there's more than one
fish there.
There's multiple, multiple,multiples.
Because there's really no otherplace, right?

Speaker 1 (48:51):
Right.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
Especially in the middle of the drought like you
guys have up there, that thatthere's no other place for them
to go.
They can't really expand.
They they they can't kind ofwander around.
But that's why I like theseareas where you you get the the
rapids and the waterfalls thatgo into a nice long stretch,
because again, they may not beright at the base of that.
They may not be at the end, butthere's a lot of water there

(49:13):
that's still moving before ithits that shallow water where
they can still, you know, go outand swim around, investigate,
you know, go out for a meal,whatever.
They're just not sitting packedlike in a two-foot section.
There's area for them to go andcome back in those eddies.
So right.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fi (49:27):
Unless you have a nice overhang or
something.
There, yeah, they're not gonnabe necessarily stacking up on
top of each other.
Right, correct, correct.
Man, I am I am looking forwardto getting out there.
I I have my my trout, Iactually took it out of the car
last week, but I have my troutrod all re-spoled, ready to go.
I gotta get down to SFO though,because I gotta get some of the

(49:50):
I I I gotta switch up what I'musing.
I'm gonna I'm gonna copy yourapproach and see how I can do.
But I'm definitely gonna be onthe water in the next week.

Speaker 3 (49:59):
Yeah, I as as soon as the new year gets past, I mean,
you know, hopefully I'll get upa couple times.
You know, I have a targettemperature though.
Like, I don't care how cold thewater is, I'm I'm okay with
that.
Because it really, I mean, I'vecaught them with uh, you know,
ice stool on the creek incertain spots.
Like it doesn't, it doesn'tmatter, right?
They're just they're cold waterfish.
But if it's not gonna reachabove freezing outside during

(50:22):
the day, yeah, I'm not going.
It's it's kind of tough.
I mean, I like it when I getthere and it's and it's 32,
anywhere between 28 and 32, andit's gonna, you know, be at
least 45.
I mean, 50 would be ideal, buta lot of days it doesn't get
there, and you know, you justgot to be prepared for the long
haul.
But you know, once you put, youknow, I spent one winter three

(50:44):
years ago, and had I I it's bestto go with zero expectations.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Right.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
You go with zero expectations because then
anything is a win-win.
And you gotta be prepared.
If you get a bump, that fishprobably is not coming back.
They're not aggressive, they'renot chasing, they're very smart
this time of year becausethey've been in that water, they
know what a hook feels like.
So if you don't, you know,they're not like they just got

(51:12):
dumped in the stream, right?
And they're just hittingeverything that comes in where
you can cast three or four timesand they're coming back, coming
back, coming back.
Here, if you don't get thathook set, you know, it's okay.
Don't be frustrated.
Hey, it's it's it didn'thappen, but now I know where to
go.
Once you get that first bump oryou get that first fish, that
should be the areas you targetevery single winner.

(51:33):
Spend one winner, find two orthree good spots on two or three
different branches.
It saves time, it saves, itsaves headaches.
And when you get up there,right, you're not wasting an
hour waiting in areas youshouldn't be.
That's just dead water,especially if you're freezing.
You can just get out of thecar, walk to your spot, get
right into it immediately.

(51:54):
If that doesn't work, hey, Iknow this spot I could go to.
The one branch I go to now,it's two spots.
That's it.
And when I'm done, I go to theother branch.
I don't waste time in between,you know.
Well, here's a little pockethere.
No, they're not there.
They're in these two or threespots, and that's it.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (52:11):
So let me let me ask you this
before we we wrap this up.
Is there any other species thatyou're running into in the
winter when you're fishing fortrout?
Are you picking up smallies oranything?

Speaker 3 (52:21):
So believe it or not, no.
Those same branches, I will getmore small mouth than trout if
I go in June, July, August,September.
But and and and solid trout.
I mean, I'm talking, these arevery, very shallow streams.
So if you get a 14 or 15-inchsmallmouth, right?
It's that's like a banner troutin those type of streams.

(52:41):
It's not, you know, whereyou're fishing the scuka or
whatever, and you're getting,you know, four, you know, three
or four pound smallmouth.
They're not that size.
Um I don't I don't know wherethey go in the winter.
I don't know where they moveto, but it's like there's a
there's a window where they showup in the spring and then they
disappear in the fall.

(53:01):
So on this branch at least,these two branches, when I get a
strike, 100% equivocally, it'sa trout.
Because I just don't catchthose in the winter.
But most creeks, you know, thatdo hold abundant smallmouth,
you know, a lot of the biggerones, you know, they're sitting
in the same spots because whereelse are they gonna be in the

(53:23):
wintertime?
They're gonna be in the same,those same holes.
So but uh with the jerk baits,you know, if there are
smallmouth there, you'll you'llcatch those too.
So again, if the the trout Ithink are a little more
difficult than the smallmouth,they're gonna take a little more
coaxing.
But again, if you're fishing ina section that has a lot of
smallmouth and trout in it,you're gonna have to weed

(53:44):
through the smallmouth to get tothe trout because the
smallmouth tends to be moreaggressive.
That's the problem, you know.
Not to harp on this point, butyou the gentleman asked about
about live bait.
So you have to weed through thesmallmouth with the live
minnows to get to the trout.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
Right.

Speaker 3 (53:59):
So I mean, so so a lot of times it's it's not worth
for me to do that.
I'll get more trout on the jerkbait and the spinner than I
will because smallmouth justlove minnows.
Trout do too, but you gottaweed through them.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fi (54:11):
That's why I don't like using shrimp
for sheep's head or tog, becauseyou you end up getting all the
sea bass and everything else aregonna jump right on the shrimp.
So it's not worth it to me.
You you know, even if that'swhat they want, yeah.
I just don't want to do it.
I just don't want to go throughall that.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
And and this branch doesn't hold, like the one
branch doesn't hold anythingother, you know, it holds
panfish, but other thansmallmouth and trout, those are
the two main species that holds.
But then if I go over to thethe the other branch, same name
creep, but other branch, youknow, you get muskie that'll
show up in there.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:45):
The largemouth bass, because you know, once they once
they open the the gates up tothe reservoir that dumps in, you
know, those will come over thespillwood.
So, you know, you have shots atother ones on that branch, but
on the other branch I fish, it'sreally just trout and
smallmouth.
And in the winter time, it'sjust more or less just trout.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishin (55:05):
So gotcha.
Another question in the chathave you ever caught rock bass?
We caught plenty of rock bass.
When you're winter fishing?

Speaker 3 (55:14):
So late, late winter and early fall, but in the in
the depth of winter, no.
But also again, I'm not usingnightcrawlers.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
Right, right.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
Night crawlers, you can catch a lot more on those.
But you know, all thesebranches I go to, they all hold
rock baths, and and one of themholds a lot more than the other.
But again, if you use them livebait, tend to catch a lot more.
So I imagine you will catchthem in the winter.
But you know, go out there withnight crawlers and even, you
know, just you know, dig up someworms, even though the ground's

(55:49):
froze now.
But you know, we've gottenthose heavy rains the last
couple years and the grounds haskind of stayed moist.
So yeah, but yeah, if there'srock bass, you'll definitely
catch those in the winter toowith live bait.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fis (55:58):
There you go.
All right, is there anythingthat we didn't cover that we
should cover?

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Again, go with no expectations in the beginning,
because if you go up with highexpectations and you get
disappointed, right, and youdon't catch anything, to some
people it's going to stop themfrom going back again.
So even though I fished thesebranches for for 40 years, when
I started doing it in the deadof winter, I started doing it

(56:26):
with zero expectations.
Then when I caught fish, it'slike, hey, you know, this is
great.
When I didn't catch fish, it'snot a letdown because I know I'm
going to the right spots.
I know I'm using the rightlures.
Something's like striped bass.
Sometimes it works, sometimesit doesn't.
It's in the cards, it's not inthe cards, but have go with zero
expectations.
And, you know, fish slow andlow.

(56:46):
They're not sitting at the topof the water column.
They're not sitting, you know,halfway up the water column.
They're sitting kind of dead tothe bottom.
So just get those lures downdeep and don't be afraid to
switch over to the paste.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
Very good.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
Sometimes you you have to do that.
There's no I won't do that inseason.
I used to when I was younger.
I refuse to do that now.
But in the wintertime, if yougot to do it, you got to do it.
But and and you've got to watchyour line.
You have to watch your line.
Slightest, maybe you won't evenfeel a tap, but just any change
in that line, you you just, youknow, you have to.

(57:24):
Because the fish could be onthe other end and it could be,
you know, 15, 16, 17-inchholdover that's been sitting
there and is just playing coywith everything else.
And he's sitting there withinhis mouth facing the current.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (57:35):
And until you come tight.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
And this time of year, honestly, you know, people
run after the palominos andgolden trout that they stock,
you know, 25, 26 inches.
And hey, it's my biggest fishto date.
I I'm going after my biggesttrout in the middle of winter.
And you'd be surprised how bigsome of the fish are that you
can get in the dead of winterthat aren't freshly stocked
fish.
There are big fish in shallowstreams that are holdovers that

(58:02):
are still there.
And they make it year afteryear.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing (58:05):
I I think we need to do some kind
of a competition for thewinter, you know, now through
the the second week of February,let's say, let's have people
posting on the the Facebook pagethere, the pictures of the
trout that they're catching atthis time of the year.
I think what people can do andjust kind of I I I hope to be

(58:26):
out there catching some.
I'm gonna, you know, I thereare some spots that I'm pretty
sure we'll produce, but they'renot where I want to find some
different ones.
I want to find some that aremore convenient to me because
what I would love to be able todo is what I used to do when I
worked in Balakinwood, there wasa spot on the school that I had
found, and the guy let me fishthe the two guys let me fish

(58:49):
between their house.
And there was one little tinyspot.
So at lunch, I would here I amdressed up for work.
I would just go and just put onsneakers, walk down to the edge
and just fish, and then youknow, I could I could stop at
quarter, let's what say quarterof one or whatever, right?
And I could be in my meeting atone o'clock, you know.
So I need something convenient.

(59:10):
It would be great if I hadsomething that I could find
that's really convenient.
So I'm gonna be I'm gonna bedoing that, but I'm gonna start,
you know, if I get some, I'mgonna try to get some photos and
and start posting them.
I'm I'm excited to I'm excitedto to jump into it.
So I'm gonna be down at sportfishing outlet probably
tomorrow, buying some stuff.
Yeah, gonna have to.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
And you know, also in the wintertime, not like
spring, like like I get up realearly in the spring, get up, you
know, and and I'm there an hourbefore the sun rises.
And that's usually my targetwindow, just about like
everything I fish is that thatgolden.
But this time of year, I I I II I want the light to be hitting
and any type of sun to bewarming that water up just a a

(59:52):
little little bit becausethere's some spots, right?
If I get up there at 7 30, 8o'clock, I don't get anything.
I go back to that spot afterthe sun is hit for two hours.
So don't be afraid to let thesun hit the water.
It's not like summertime or orlate spring where it's heating
it up, right?
And now they're gonna bedormant until dusk.

(01:00:13):
Or not it's the opposite.
You know, you want to go in themiddle of the day this time of
the year, so you don't have toget up and I get up early still
because I want to beat thetraffic going up over 322 and
come over a very bridge, right?

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
Certain times of the day.
Now it's gonna make a two-hourride, a three-hour ride.
But you know, if you don't mindthat, or it's it's more
adjacent to where you are, ten,eleven, twelve o'clock is
perfectly fine.
Let that light shine on thewater, let the sun be full
blast, because it it definitelywill help.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fish (01:00:46):
See, I I love this because for me
it's always get up at three a.m.
so I can get that first bite.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
Not this time.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (01:00:53):
Get up at normal time.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
No, no, no, no, no.
Not now.
And that's and that's a mistakeI made, right?
I have caught them at eighto'clock in the morning, but most
of the fish I catch, again, youknow, if it's if it's late at 6
30, really 8 30, 9 o'clock.
Because the first hour it'slight, right?
A lot of the streams where yougo down the bank, there's the
sun's up, but it's not hittingthe water till right, you know,

(01:01:17):
8 30, 9 o'clock this time ofyear, where in the spring it's
different.
The sun's a different anglethis time of year, and you know,
you don't have as muchdaylight.
So um, you know, go in thewarmest part of the day this
time of year, as long as you canavoid the traffic.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (01:01:34):
All right.
Well, I'm going this week.
I'm going this week.
I know you probably won't withthe holidays, but uh I am.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
No, this, and and and again, it's very rewarding.
There's nobody out there, andthere's just something more
natural to me fishing and beingin the stream.
If somebody hasn't done it andthey think that, you know, well,
freshwater fishing isn't mygame.
If if you get on a stream andyou catch a nice solid brown or
brook trout in fast runningwater that hits the other end of

(01:02:04):
a uh a jerk bait, you'll nevergo back.
You'll never go back.
It's highly addictive.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (01:02:11):
All right.
I'm I'm I'm in.
I'm in.
I'm gonna be hitting them.
Chris, thank you very much forcoming on.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
Before the spring, we're gonna go together.
I'm gonna pick you up on my wayup and and and we're gonna go
and we're gonna get in the fishbefore everybody else gets out
there.
So we got six weeks to do itbefore the middle of February
when it closes.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (01:02:27):
And and I'm gonna, if I can find
something around here, it'llactually even cut some time off
for you.
So if I find a couple of goodspots, then maybe you have a new
spot and you can shave a halfan hour off.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
So you put the legwork in though, because I
don't want to spend anotherwinter finding finding a spot.
So if you find a spot, you letme know.
We'll go.
If not, we'll go to my spotsand and we'll uh yeah, we'll get
some nice solid fish.
So it'll be a pleasure.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishi (01:02:50):
I'm in.
I'm in.
It'll it'll be fun.
Chris, thank you very much forcoming on.
Everyone, thanks for tuning in.
We're not gonna be on nextMonday, it's just not gonna
happen.
Um, too much with the holidays,and uh yeah, we're gonna I'm
gonna play an old episode that'sprobably not online anymore.
Uh, so everyone, thanks fortuning in.
Everyone, have a greatChristmas.

(01:03:12):
Uh, enjoy the time with thefamily.
And then when you get sick ofthem instead of going to movies,
hit a trout stream and postthose pictures up so that we can
see them.
We've got some great guestsplanned for January.
So I'm looking forward to that.
Not going to announce thembecause we don't have the order
of people yet, but uh we've gotsome we've got some some cool
shows coming up, so I'm lookingforward to that.

(01:03:33):
Chris, thanks again, everyone.
Make sure despite this weatherbeing cold, it's still fishable.
So get out there, get on thewater, and get some tight lines.