May 28, 2025 • 34 mins
RE-UPLOAD ... Season 2, Episode 1.. Original Interview for Season 1, Episode 1 was in July, 2021 with Derek Maltz, SR. ~ former DEA Special Operations leader, and more recently...
The Acting Director of the DEA - Appointed by President Donald J. Trump from January-May, 2025
The information STILL remains Relevant and True as of NOW. Some Changes have been Made in AMERICA, yet, more NEED to be made in Order to SAVE LIVES.
America faces an unprecedented drug crisis as Mexican cartels and Chinese criminal organizations work together to flood our country with deadly fentanyl, killing our citizens at levels we've never seen before. Former DEA Special Operations head Derek Maltz provides an unflinching analysis of how this lethal partnership is poisoning America while politicians and media look away.
• Mexican cartels and Chinese transnational criminals have formed a lethal partnership killing Americans at unprecedented rates
• Cartels are manufacturing counterfeit prescription pills containing deadly amounts of fentanyl
• Young people are dying after taking just one pill purchased through social media platforms
• The DEA Phoenix division went from seizing zero counterfeit pills in 2015 to 6 million in 2020
• Fentanyl should be treated as a weapon of mass destruction and cartels as terrorist organizations
• Drug education programs have been gutted while synthetic drugs have become more dangerous
• Solutions include targeting chemical precursors, cash flow, and launching massive public awareness campaigns
• Political games are preventing effective action while deaths continue to rise
This crisis requires immediate action, unity of purpose, and leaders who will be held accountable. We must work together to save American lives and protect our communities from this deadly threat.
The Fatal Facts of Fentanyl podcast is dedicated to raising Awareness to the illicit FENTANYL crisis hitting the USA.
The goal is to SAVE LIVES and families from this travesty.
Awareness and Education are the Key.
Knowledge is Power!
The Fatal Facts of Fentanyl podcast is dedicated to raising Awareness to the illicit FENTANYL crisis hitting the USA.
The goal is to SAVE LIVES and families from this travesty.
Awareness and Education are the Key.
Knowledge is Power!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Derek Maltz is retired from the Drug
Enforcement Administration, theDEA, after 28 years of dedicated
service.
Mr Maltz is also a nationalsecurity safety executive who
appears on national newsnetworks as a subject matter
expert.
Our subject matter today is thefentanyl crisis in our country,
(00:25):
killing tens of thousands ofpeople per year.
I am honored to present to ouraudience Derek Maltz, a man who
deals with factual information,no sugarcoating, and tells it
like it is.
Welcome, derek.
I want to let you know that youare my first person to
(00:45):
interview for this podcast theFatal Facts of Fentanyl.
My hope is to launch this showwith a bang.
Your expertise and directcandidness will bring awareness
and education.
It is time for America to wakeup.
Let's go, derek.
I'm giving you full reign topresent all of the facts of
(01:07):
fentanyl.
Please tell it like it is, noholding back.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Lisa, thank you very much.
I appreciate it, yeah, and thisis really important, and I'll
try my best to keep focused onthe facts because there's a lot
of misinformation.
But so first fact is thatMexico and China must be the top
national security concerns foreveryday Americans as we face
the worst drug crisis in ourhistory.
(01:35):
We've never seen anything likethis.
I know there's mainstream mediareporting makes it like this is
just you know, ongoing problemthat we've had for years.
Reporting makes it like this isjust you know, ongoing problem
that we've had for years.
No, this is Mexico and Chinesetransnational criminals working
together to kill our youngAmericans at levels we've never
seen as an example.
It's hard to get the statisticsbecause it's very inefficient
(01:58):
the way they collect statisticsaround the country and the way
the CDC puts it together.
So it's a little bit behind,but in a 12-month period ending
November of 2020, according tothe CDC preliminary statistics,
(02:19):
over 92,000 Americans died fromdrug overdoses.
The vast majority are fromfentanyl.
We believe the numbers aregoing to be way higher.
There's been a study inGeorgetown University that was
done.
These statistics are just notvery accurate.
They're going to be a lothigher.
So, in my opinion, okay, basedon the deaths in this country
over the last several years.
The cartels should be the topday-to-day threat impacting
(02:40):
America's future.
They're killing off our futuregeneration and, by the way,
they're killing more Americansthan any terrorist organization
probably in the history of thecountry that I'm aware of.
Like this is something you knowoff the charts, right, and
nobody seems to be talking aboutit.
The cartels are using advancedcommunications.
They're beating the systembecause we have antiquated laws.
(03:03):
They're taking completeadvantage of the vulnerabilities
and the weaknesses at oursouthern border, so they're just
moving their people into thecountry every day, all day long.
They're making billions ofdollars from all these migrants
that are coming in from aroundthe world.
So that's another whole storyfor another day.
But in reality they're settingup their command and control
(03:25):
cells throughout many of ourmajor cities and then they're
setting up operations in all therural areas and you know,
pretty much everywhere inAmerica they control the drug
market for not only fentanyl andcounterfeit fentanyl pills, but
also methamphetamine, forcocaine, for heroin and for
(03:45):
marijuana.
But the reality is is the twobiggest threats right now is the
fentanyl, the fentanyl mixed inother drugs and, of course,
methamphetamine.
So I mean we can go in manydifferent directions.
I mean whatever direction youwant.
I could talk freely about thesetopics.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yes, sir, thank you for your expertise.
Yes, sir, like you said, we cango in so many different
directions in the cause of thisand we, today we are going to
deal with the facts of fentanyl.
Can you tell me, in youropinion, what is really bringing
the influx of this all of asudden into our country?
I know it's fentanyl.
Illicit fentanyl has beenaround several years, but right
(04:27):
now we are hearing more and moreand more deaths every day
caused by this, either byseasoned users or people buying
these counterfeit pills.
I mean, that's astounding to me.
Can you elaborate on thesecounterfeit pills that are being
sold on the Internet, like onSnapchat, to our children, you
(04:47):
know, middle school, high schooland all age groups, sir?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah.
So that's a great question andthat's kind of what's missing in
the mainstream media, likepeople aren't talking about that
.
So a little background Probablyin let's say, 2006, 2005, the
Mexican cartel started expandingtheir different product line,
(05:26):
so they started trying to makemethamphetamine in Mexico.
So what they've done is they'veturned to the Chinese and they
started like first getting purefentanyl from the Chinese in the
kilogram quantities, importingthe fentanyl into Mexico and
then mixing the fentanyl in alltypes of drugs and then
(05:47):
obviously making thesecounterfeit pills as well.
Well, what happened was theTrump administration put lots of
pressure on the Chinesegovernment, so they started
getting smart.
As far as exporting purefentanyl, they were charging
like $5,000 a kilogram in Chinato the cartels and then they
(06:08):
were basically, you know, theMexicans could make
multi-millions of dollars offone kilogram of fentanyl.
But since the pressure camedown on China, they started
getting smart and they startedexporting only the precursor
chemicals, for the most part toMexico.
So you know, China's beensending fentanyl into America
for a long time, like during aperiod of time like, let's say,
(06:30):
2009, 2013, 14, 15, 16, 17, andthen 18, you know, started
slowing down a little bit in 19.
But the Mexican cartel started,you know, taking advantage of
the massive amounts of profitsby getting involved with
fentanyl Right, they're in thebusiness to make money, right,
(06:52):
and they want to start gettingpeople addicted.
So, fentanyl because it's soaddicted to people, they just
decided that this is a nobrainer.
We can make more money.
We don't have to grow any ofthis stuff in the poppy fields
and deal with the irrigation anddeal with the weather and
paying all these farmers.
We're just going to buy thestuff made from China or we're
(07:14):
going to make it ourselves.
So what's happened is theyrealized that America has all
these people that were addicted.
So they had a market foropioids, right, fentanyl is an
synthetic opioid.
So they started pushing it intothe country, you know, mixing
it with heroin, mixing it withcocaine, mixing it with meth,
(07:36):
and all these people started tostart.
They started dying all over theplace because the cartels don't
have like quality control,chemists, when they're making
this stuff in these laboratoriesin the jungle.
And then they started doing thepills, right.
So they started buying pillpresses from China.
They start sending pill pressesinto America.
So it became this fentanylmadness, right, just came about
(07:59):
like all of a sudden, right.
So just to give you anindication of that and I know I
go all over the board, but thiswill kind of help understand
this In 2015, the DEA Phoenixdivision seized zero Mexican oxy
counterfeit pills right,they're known as blue 30s, m30s.
(08:20):
But now if you look at theevolution in 2016, they seized
20,000 pills.
In 17, it was 54,000.
In 18, it was 380,000.
In 19, it was 1.4 million pills.
And in 2020, the DEA Phoenixalone one DEA division seized 6
(08:42):
million fentanyl counterfeitfentanyl you know, counterfeit
prescription pills right M30,blue 30.
And so they're pushing it outin such large volumes.
A lot of people started sellingit on social media, right?
So there's been quite a fewdeaths of young kids that bought
one pill to try a pain pill.
(09:04):
They thought they were gettinga pain pill from their buddy or
their friend in college or inhigh school, or sometimes just
going on Snapchat ordering anOxycontin, percocet right, xanax
right.
These are pills that mommy anddaddy take, so they figure it's
okay.
Next thing, you know, theparents are finding them dead.
This is moving quickly.
(09:25):
We're starting to see theseoverdoses all over the country.
I collect the news stories everyday.
Not only do I collect the newsstories.
But I talk to families likeyours God bless you and sorry
for your loss.
But I talk to families likeyours, right, god bless you and
sorry for your loss.
But I talk to families and theysend me photographs and stories
of the kids that they're losingand it's becoming very
(09:45):
overwhelming.
I can't even keep up with thepictures, right, that I'm
getting.
I make the photo collages, Ipush them out into the media, I
provide them to Congress, I dowhatever I can to get the
awareness out so parents don'tgo through the same tragedy.
But the reality is this is theway I like to say it the Mexican
cartels have formed a lethalpartnership with the Chinese
(10:09):
transnational criminals andthey're basically destabilizing
our country right underneath ournoses and they're basically
destabilizing our country rightunderneath our noses and the
mainstream media.
The politicians are burying thestory.
That's as simple as I could say.
They're burying it because it'spolitical.
But here's the sad part, lisa.
The sad part is this didn'tstart on the Joe Biden
(10:31):
administration.
This didn't start under DonaldTrump.
This has been going on a longtime Throughout the Obama
administration.
When I worked at the SpecialOperations Division, this is
when we started seeing a lot ofthis stuff, even in the Bush
administration.
This is an evolution.
This is a problem that nobodywants to deal with, nobody wants
(10:51):
to talk about, nobody wants toprovide the facts.
This is a bipartisan issue.
This is not and should not bepolitical.
Unfortunately, now we have theseopen border policies and these
migrants are coming in, like youknow, at levels we've never
seen.
So it's opening up thefloodgates, and now it's
(11:11):
becoming political and nobodywants to talk about it.
Political and nobody wants totalk about it.
There's gag orders that youknow, some of the federal
agencies.
They can't do national newsstories about this stuff, and so
it's really disgusting becausefamilies are being destroyed and
our future generation is beingkilled off.
And you know, I feel that theChinese are, you know, deploying
(11:35):
their unrestricted warfareagainst America, using the
Mexican cartels to do the dirtywork right, and so they're
destabilizing our country withall this death and destruction,
and we're not even talking aboutit.
So it's really, reallydisturbing, and I'm going to
continue to push as much as Ican and as hard as I can to try
(11:56):
to get the messages out.
So thanks for, you know, askinga very good question.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yes, sir, thank you, Thanks for being our voice,
especially during, I believe.
You went before Congress a lotof different times and thank you
for that.
It does sound like a crisis ofmass destruction.
To me, it sounds like an act ofterrorism.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
How do you feel?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
about that and what do you think needs to be done to
hold these people accountable?
Do you think we can hold thesepeople accountable?
What needs to be done?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Okay, so that's also a very, very good question.
Thank you All right, obviouslyyou know this topic very well.
So, number one, it is terrorism, because they're using a weapon
of mass destruction against ourcountry.
So what does that mean?
Right, when we think of aweapon of mass destruction, we
don't think of this poisonousfentanyl.
Nobody does right.
(12:47):
You got to have a new mindsetfor this.
But let's just keep it realsimple.
If Al-Qaeda had 50 pounds ofsome biological or chemical
weapon sitting in Mexico readyto deploy on America, what do
you think would happen?
Our intelligence community, ourDepartment of Defense, our law
enforcement, working with ourcounterparts, would go after
(13:09):
that really aggressively to tryto destroy it, to try to save
lives, destroy it to try to savelives, and they would get it
done, because we have somephenomenal people in America and
some of these other countriesare really, really sophisticated
investigators and we havereally good tools and
authorities.
But, for whatever reason, rightnow we have thousands and
(13:29):
thousands of pounds of fentanylsitting in labs in Mexico.
A lot of times we know wherethese labs are.
We should be destroying theselabs.
We should be stopping the flowof the cash back to the cartel
so they can't continue tooperate, so they have to be
treated as terrorists.
We've been very vocal aboutthat for several years now.
(13:49):
President Trump was real closeto declaring them as a terrorist
group, but you know, of coursethe politics got in the way.
You know Mexico is our you knowsouthern trading partner and
trying to keep relations andnobody understands it.
We're not talking aboutstarting a war with Mexico.
We're not talking about bombingthe country of Mexico.
(14:09):
We're talking about destroyingthis terror organization that's
killing our kids at a level thatwe've never seen in the history
of the country.
This is something new.
This isn't the ongoing crisis.
This isn't like exaggerating.
Just look at the statistics,just look at the print media
every day and look what'shappening in our country.
(14:30):
Like one example I like to give, because in the morgue out in
Franklin County, ohio, thecoroner put out a report in the
first six months of 2020, therewas like a 75% increase in
overdose deaths, but there waslike 85% of those were related
(14:51):
to fentanyl and syntheticopioids.
So it's not from kids takingmommy and daddy's legitimate oxy
or Percocet that's beingprescribed by a legitimate
pharmacy from a legitimatedoctor.
That's not what we're talkingabout Now.
That stuff's bad and the kidswill get addicted from taking
that stuff.
So they need to stay away frommommy and daddy's legitimate
(15:13):
medicine.
But my point is that's notwhat's killing them now.
What's killing them is thesecounterfeit pills and the pure
fentanyl that's coming in fromthe cartels in Mexico.
So it's got to be, you know,messaged a little bit better so
people understand.
Like, what is killing the kids?
Why are we seeing the level ofdeath and destruction like we've
(15:34):
never seen before?
And the answer is fentanyl.
And the answer is becauseMexico is working very, very
closely with the Chinesetransnational criminals and
they're really doing a good jobat carrying out their agenda.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yes, sir, it seems like it's a multibillion dollar
industry in this world andunfortunately we are feeling the
wrath of it.
Can you elaborate to?
It seems like there's just nosense of urgency to address this
and do you have any strategiesto do this?
And what about educating ourchildren about this?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
There's so many things that need to be done.
So, again, this is a complimentto you, because I didn't know
of you to be like this,professional, like global
podcaster, and your questionsare really outstanding.
I wish we'd get these kind ofquestions on the national news.
So thanks again.
I mean first of all, the drugeducation efforts were pretty
(16:33):
much shut down, like I rememberbeing in DEA when we lost our
budget for demand reduction.
But because DEA agents caredabout kids, we had many people,
including myself, that would goto schools, that would go to
community groups and discussthese emerging drugs, especially
these synthetic drugs that weremade in labs in China and the
(16:54):
methamphetamine explosion, butwe had no budget for it, right.
And then they have the drugczar's office.
Right, and the drug czar'soffice, they have a good program
with the HIDA program, the HighIntensity Drug Trafficking Area
Program, and they've done somegood job at training law
enforcement and providingresources to state and locals.
But what they failed to do inthe drug source office for many
(17:21):
years is they failed to educateour kids about the dangers of
these poisonous substances,right.
So we had a whole like 10, 15years with no education.
Years ago we used to have thesePSAs right Public service
announcements Like I would neverforget.
The one that hit me was whenthis little girl was talking to
her mother after she was killed.
She says Mommy, you killed mebecause the bomb that went off
(17:41):
was because of the marijuanathat you're smoking and the
money went to the terrorists.
They made a bomb and the bombkilled me.
It was a very impactful video.
I still have it.
But we haven't seen that stuffin years.
People just completely ignoredit.
We stopped the DARE programs inhigh schools.
We stopped the educationprograms and health and you know
(18:02):
the health classes.
It should be mandatory in everyschool.
We have to hit the kids whenthey're young.
You know they had massive youknow, you know drug.
You know, I'm sorry massiveeducation on cigarette and
tobacco smoking for years, whichdefinitely impacted, you know,
our kids as far as like stayingaway from cigarettes.
But here's the point.
So we missed all the drugeducation.
(18:23):
So we had this huge demand.
And then the cartels not justMexican cartels but the
Colombian cartels took advantageof the addicted population.
Cartels took advantage of theaddicted population.
At the same time, we had thecorporate cartels getting away
with dumping 100 billion opioidsinto the American population.
(18:44):
In a nine-year period,washington posted an outstanding
investigative story and theydetermined there was 100 billion
pills opioid pills, pillsdumped into America.
So it was like the perfectstorm.
You had white heroin coming infrom South America and Mexico,
you had these corporate cartelsdumping the opioids on our kids
and our communities, and thenyou had the fentanyl start
(19:07):
creeping its way in.
So you're right, there's been nosense of urgency Like, keep in
mind, right, think about it likethis On 9-11, which was a total
disaster, there were 3,000Americans, or 3,000 people died,
almost 3,000 in the tradecenter.
And then you look at the Afghanand the Iraqi war and about
(19:28):
7,000 Americans died in thosetwo conflicts.
So that's a total of 10,000.
By the way, my brother cameback in a body bag fighting for
the country in Afghanistan,right, so that's 10,000 people.
Then, if you look at how manydied just last year alone from
drugs, 92,000 approximately.
I'd say 100,000 is going to becloser to the number and look at
(19:51):
that, that's like 10%.
You know what I'm saying.
It's such a low number in thosethree catastrophic events in
our country's history.
But yet all these people aredying from drugs and no one even
talks about it.
So, yeah, they set up taskforces.
So I remember Attorney GeneralSessions set up specific task
(20:12):
forces to address this, evenbefore Sessions Eric Holder.
They had the transnationalcrime strategy where they had
Sinaloa cartel and now they haveadded the Jalisco New
Generation cartel to the list ofmajor targets that were putting
this poison in our country.
Right, but unfortunatelythere's no accountability.
(20:32):
Like they never ask for results, they never stay on top of like
progress that's been made.
You still have interagency gamesbeing played, agencies working
in silos and we're not using allthe tools of national power.
Now, the sad part is a lot ofthese agencies work very hard
every day, but what good is itif you're not working together
(20:54):
to go after the threat and useall the authorities, all the
capabilities that you have inyour arsenal to destroy this
threat to our national securityand to save lives?
So that's one point that reallygets me passionate because of
the lack of urgency.
Like how can you not get youknow crazy when you see all of
(21:15):
these kids that are dying andyou read the stories?
I mean, like anybody with aheart can understand that we
need some more aggressive action.
We can't just have talkingheads talking about these things
, you have to have action to dosomething about it and right now
I don't see a lot of, you know,unity of effort to go after
this threat.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Yeah, so you're right .
This is an American issue.
This is not a Democrat issue orRepublican issue.
This is not about Beltwaypolitics.
I'm sorry.
This is affecting everybodydirectly or indirectly in this
country and we just need to dosomething and we need direction.
And it's like it really doesmake me suspicious of our
(21:58):
government and our mainstreammedia why there's no talk about
this or public health awareness.
I mean, this should be acrossthe country, educating people
and to bring awareness.
Can you elaborate on that alittle bit?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Like what the hell is going on.
So, okay, couple of things.
Number one just keep this inmind and I have I have
significant firsthand experiencewhen I make this statement, so
I'm not making this up there's areason that I called the
Beltway the land of themake-believe.
Okay, because there's a lot ofstuff that goes on in the
Washington DC Beltway that thepublic just has no idea.
(22:33):
There's a lot of self-servingindividuals here that only care
about themselves and their bankaccounts, as opposed to the
mission that they signed on for.
And, don't get me wrong,there's also a significant
amount of people that go to workevery day and work their butt
off to try to do the right thingto save lives, but some of the
leadership people they getappointed to come in they don't
(22:56):
have the requisite skills, theydon't have the experience, they
don't have the respect of theworkers on the front lines, they
don't send out consistentmessaging and basically, it's
basically very dysfunctionalenvironment, right, very
bureaucratic, and so theawareness out there is very
cloudy, right?
People don't understand itbecause they're getting mixed
(23:17):
messages, right?
There's an old saying that Ihad for many years ago that
someone told me a leader issupposed to eliminate confusion
and not to create it.
Right now, our leaders arecreating confusion, like one day
you hear somebody say theborder's closed.
No, the border's open, come onin.
Right, we don't have school,you know, open for our kids
(23:38):
during COVID.
But if you're a migrant andyou're in San Diego, we have our
teachers come in and provideyou schooling, right?
So there's a lot of mixedmessaging, right, and so the
public doesn't know what's goingon.
They don't trust the governmentin many ways because the
government's credibility wentdown the tubes, right, and it's
been going on that for a whileit's not just started yesterday
(24:00):
and so there's got to be moreleaders that are stepping up to
put the problem on the tablewith solutions and start
bringing people together.
I spent a couple of days down inArizona at a border rally in
June 25th with some greatAmerican patriots.
The sheriffs of the borderstates Right and also the Angel
(24:22):
families were there and a lot ofother great leaders, like the
former ICE director, the formerHomeland Security, you know, the
Border Patrol CBP director andthen, of course, the current
Border Patrol president of theirunion, their counsel, brandon
Judd, so Tom Holm and MarkMorgan, brandon Judd, myself and
lots of sheriffs and otherleaders started speaking about
(24:45):
this and it's really not adifficult concept.
This is a common sense thing.
This is impacting all families.
It's destroying communities.
The cartels are instigating,agitating, enhancing all the
violence that's going on allaround America because a lot of
these disputes that are going onare drug-related for territory
(25:07):
right.
So it's pretty simple tounderstand.
You don't have to have an MITgraduate degree to understand
what the problem is.
Right, but the politics we'retrying to bury.
The problem but the reality isis all the constituents of the
political leaders should bepissed off.
This is not just, you know,this is not just Donald Trump or
(25:28):
Republican followers that aremad.
All these Democrats in allthese cities should be pissed
off too.
That taxes are going throughthe roof, police are retiring at
record levels, crime is surgingthrough the roof and our kids
are dying at record levels.
So what am I missing here?
If you don't have law and order, you don't have a country, and
we're on that path, all right.
(25:49):
And I'm not trying to be analarmist, I'm not trying to be
an exaggerator or try to, youknow, antagonize anybody.
I'm just trying to help savelives, and that's kind of what
we have to all do together andthe leaders that get elected
should be held accountable forinaction.
Okay, so if you say the Sinaloacartel is a threat to our
(26:10):
national security and you donothing about it, you should be
removed from office.
It's that simple, and so weneed more people speaking up and
talking about the problem andcoming up with solutions.
We have a lot of smart Americansthat have good solutions on
this stuff.
We just have to implement it.
We don't have to overthink it,because it's not that
complicated.
If you really think about it.
(26:32):
You have to have chemicals tomake drugs, you have to have
laboratory equipment, you haveto have the money to actually
buy the chemicals, and so youhave really the two main
components chemicals and money.
So if you shut down thechemicals, you shut down the
money flow and you destroy thelabs.
(26:53):
You're going to put them out ofbusiness, so the supply won't
be there.
Supply won't be there.
If the supply is not there,then the kids can't buy this
stuff.
It's not available, and youhave to work at the same time on
all the education on thesedangerous drugs, which is not
that hard to do If thegovernment has billions of
dollars to waste on sending itaround the world to other
countries.
Why don't they just use some ofthat money to start a media
(27:15):
campaign and start blitzing ournetwork TV and our Internet on
all these dangerous chemicalsthat are killing kids?
I don't think it'll be thathard to be honest.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Yes, sir, you're exactly right.
It doesn't take a rocketscientist to figure this out.
Derek, I can speak on behalf ofall parents who have lost our
sons and daughters to fentanylpoisoning.
We're all so fortunate to haveyou in the ring with us, with
your passion and drive to fightthis necessary fight and rage a
war on this domestic terrorismspreading throughout our country
(27:47):
.
With the distribution of thismost deadly drug, they're
murdering our loved ones inrecord numbers.
Thank you for discussing thisdrug crisis and how the cartels
are in conjunction with theChinese organized crime
syndicate, they are murderingour future generation.
These facts may be disturbingto some, but so necessary to be
(28:08):
brought out in order to bringpositive changes.
Thank you so much for yourcontinued support for all
families who have lost theirloved ones.
We love you, we need you.
Their loved ones we love you,we need you and we appreciate
you.
Many blessings, derek.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Thank you, I really appreciate it and look forward
to speaking again.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Hopefully, we can make some progress here.
Yes, sir, I hope so too, aslong as we're part, all part of
this coalition.
Yes, sir, I do.
I have faith and hope in peoplelike you and our country, so we
just have our work cut out forus.
But you know, we're going to doit.
We're going to do it.
There's a positive force behindus, that's for sure.
But I really do thank you and Iwould like to bring you back
(28:49):
for future podcast episodes andwe can discuss further some,
maybe some new developments thatare coming.
I do see hope every day thatsome positive changes are taking
place, so let's just keep thatball that are coming.
I do see hope every day thatsome positive changes are taking
place, so let's just keep thatball, that ball rolling, okay.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Sounds good and thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Thank you, take care, thank you, okay, bye.
Derek Maltz is retired from the Drug
Enforcement Administration, theDEA, after 28 years of dedicated
service.
Mr Maltz is also a nationalsecurity safety executive who
appears on national newsnetworks as a subject matter
expert.
Our subject matter today is thefentanyl crisis in our country,
(00:25):
killing tens of thousands ofpeople per year.
I am honored to present to ouraudience Derek Maltz, a man who
deals with factual information,no sugarcoating, and tells it
like it is.
Welcome, derek.
I want to let you know that youare my first person to
(00:45):
interview for this podcast theFatal Facts of Fentanyl.
My hope is to launch this showwith a bang.
Your expertise and directcandidness will bring awareness
and education.
It is time for America to wakeup.
Let's go, derek.
I'm giving you full reign topresent all of the facts of
(01:07):
fentanyl.
Please tell it like it is, noholding back.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Lisa, thank you very much.
I appreciate it, yeah, and thisis really important, and I'll
try my best to keep focused onthe facts because there's a lot
of misinformation.
But so first fact is thatMexico and China must be the top
national security concerns foreveryday Americans as we face
the worst drug crisis in ourhistory.
(01:35):
We've never seen anything likethis.
I know there's mainstream mediareporting makes it like this is
just you know, ongoing problemthat we've had for years.
Reporting makes it like this isjust you know, ongoing problem
that we've had for years.
No, this is Mexico and Chinesetransnational criminals working
together to kill our youngAmericans at levels we've never
seen as an example.
It's hard to get the statisticsbecause it's very inefficient
(01:58):
the way they collect statisticsaround the country and the way
the CDC puts it together.
So it's a little bit behind,but in a 12-month period ending
November of 2020, according tothe CDC preliminary statistics,
(02:19):
over 92,000 Americans died fromdrug overdoses.
The vast majority are fromfentanyl.
We believe the numbers aregoing to be way higher.
There's been a study inGeorgetown University that was
done.
These statistics are just notvery accurate.
They're going to be a lothigher.
So, in my opinion, okay, basedon the deaths in this country
over the last several years.
The cartels should be the topday-to-day threat impacting
(02:40):
America's future.
They're killing off our futuregeneration and, by the way,
they're killing more Americansthan any terrorist organization
probably in the history of thecountry that I'm aware of.
Like this is something you knowoff the charts, right, and
nobody seems to be talking aboutit.
The cartels are using advancedcommunications.
They're beating the systembecause we have antiquated laws.
(03:03):
They're taking completeadvantage of the vulnerabilities
and the weaknesses at oursouthern border, so they're just
moving their people into thecountry every day, all day long.
They're making billions ofdollars from all these migrants
that are coming in from aroundthe world.
So that's another whole storyfor another day.
But in reality they're settingup their command and control
(03:25):
cells throughout many of ourmajor cities and then they're
setting up operations in all therural areas and you know,
pretty much everywhere inAmerica they control the drug
market for not only fentanyl andcounterfeit fentanyl pills, but
also methamphetamine, forcocaine, for heroin and for
(03:45):
marijuana.
But the reality is is the twobiggest threats right now is the
fentanyl, the fentanyl mixed inother drugs and, of course,
methamphetamine.
So I mean we can go in manydifferent directions.
I mean whatever direction youwant.
I could talk freely about thesetopics.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yes, sir, thank you for your expertise.
Yes, sir, like you said, we cango in so many different
directions in the cause of thisand we, today we are going to
deal with the facts of fentanyl.
Can you tell me, in youropinion, what is really bringing
the influx of this all of asudden into our country?
I know it's fentanyl.
Illicit fentanyl has beenaround several years, but right
(04:27):
now we are hearing more and moreand more deaths every day
caused by this, either byseasoned users or people buying
these counterfeit pills.
I mean, that's astounding to me.
Can you elaborate on thesecounterfeit pills that are being
sold on the Internet, like onSnapchat, to our children, you
(04:47):
know, middle school, high schooland all age groups, sir?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah.
So that's a great question andthat's kind of what's missing in
the mainstream media, likepeople aren't talking about that
.
So a little background Probablyin let's say, 2006, 2005, the
Mexican cartel started expandingtheir different product line,
(05:26):
so they started trying to makemethamphetamine in Mexico.
So what they've done is they'veturned to the Chinese and they
started like first getting purefentanyl from the Chinese in the
kilogram quantities, importingthe fentanyl into Mexico and
then mixing the fentanyl in alltypes of drugs and then
(05:47):
obviously making thesecounterfeit pills as well.
Well, what happened was theTrump administration put lots of
pressure on the Chinesegovernment, so they started
getting smart.
As far as exporting purefentanyl, they were charging
like $5,000 a kilogram in Chinato the cartels and then they
(06:08):
were basically, you know, theMexicans could make
multi-millions of dollars offone kilogram of fentanyl.
But since the pressure camedown on China, they started
getting smart and they startedexporting only the precursor
chemicals, for the most part toMexico.
So you know, China's beensending fentanyl into America
for a long time, like during aperiod of time like, let's say,
(06:30):
2009, 2013, 14, 15, 16, 17, andthen 18, you know, started
slowing down a little bit in 19.
But the Mexican cartel started,you know, taking advantage of
the massive amounts of profitsby getting involved with
fentanyl Right, they're in thebusiness to make money, right,
(06:52):
and they want to start gettingpeople addicted.
So, fentanyl because it's soaddicted to people, they just
decided that this is a nobrainer.
We can make more money.
We don't have to grow any ofthis stuff in the poppy fields
and deal with the irrigation anddeal with the weather and
paying all these farmers.
We're just going to buy thestuff made from China or we're
(07:14):
going to make it ourselves.
So what's happened is theyrealized that America has all
these people that were addicted.
So they had a market foropioids, right, fentanyl is an
synthetic opioid.
So they started pushing it intothe country, you know, mixing
it with heroin, mixing it withcocaine, mixing it with meth,
(07:36):
and all these people started tostart.
They started dying all over theplace because the cartels don't
have like quality control,chemists, when they're making
this stuff in these laboratoriesin the jungle.
And then they started doing thepills, right.
So they started buying pillpresses from China.
They start sending pill pressesinto America.
So it became this fentanylmadness, right, just came about
(07:59):
like all of a sudden, right.
So just to give you anindication of that and I know I
go all over the board, but thiswill kind of help understand
this In 2015, the DEA Phoenixdivision seized zero Mexican oxy
counterfeit pills right,they're known as blue 30s, m30s.
(08:20):
But now if you look at theevolution in 2016, they seized
20,000 pills.
In 17, it was 54,000.
In 18, it was 380,000.
In 19, it was 1.4 million pills.
And in 2020, the DEA Phoenixalone one DEA division seized 6
(08:42):
million fentanyl counterfeitfentanyl you know, counterfeit
prescription pills right M30,blue 30.
And so they're pushing it outin such large volumes.
A lot of people started sellingit on social media, right?
So there's been quite a fewdeaths of young kids that bought
one pill to try a pain pill.
(09:04):
They thought they were gettinga pain pill from their buddy or
their friend in college or inhigh school, or sometimes just
going on Snapchat ordering anOxycontin, percocet right, xanax
right.
These are pills that mommy anddaddy take, so they figure it's
okay.
Next thing, you know, theparents are finding them dead.
This is moving quickly.
(09:25):
We're starting to see theseoverdoses all over the country.
I collect the news stories everyday.
Not only do I collect the newsstories.
But I talk to families likeyours God bless you and sorry
for your loss.
But I talk to families likeyours, right, god bless you and
sorry for your loss.
But I talk to families and theysend me photographs and stories
of the kids that they're losingand it's becoming very
(09:45):
overwhelming.
I can't even keep up with thepictures, right, that I'm
getting.
I make the photo collages, Ipush them out into the media, I
provide them to Congress, I dowhatever I can to get the
awareness out so parents don'tgo through the same tragedy.
But the reality is this is theway I like to say it the Mexican
cartels have formed a lethalpartnership with the Chinese
(10:09):
transnational criminals andthey're basically destabilizing
our country right underneath ournoses and they're basically
destabilizing our country rightunderneath our noses and the
mainstream media.
The politicians are burying thestory.
That's as simple as I could say.
They're burying it because it'spolitical.
But here's the sad part, lisa.
The sad part is this didn'tstart on the Joe Biden
(10:31):
administration.
This didn't start under DonaldTrump.
This has been going on a longtime Throughout the Obama
administration.
When I worked at the SpecialOperations Division, this is
when we started seeing a lot ofthis stuff, even in the Bush
administration.
This is an evolution.
This is a problem that nobodywants to deal with, nobody wants
(10:51):
to talk about, nobody wants toprovide the facts.
This is a bipartisan issue.
This is not and should not bepolitical.
Unfortunately, now we have theseopen border policies and these
migrants are coming in, like youknow, at levels we've never
seen.
So it's opening up thefloodgates, and now it's
(11:11):
becoming political and nobodywants to talk about it.
Political and nobody wants totalk about it.
There's gag orders that youknow, some of the federal
agencies.
They can't do national newsstories about this stuff, and so
it's really disgusting becausefamilies are being destroyed and
our future generation is beingkilled off.
And you know, I feel that theChinese are, you know, deploying
(11:35):
their unrestricted warfareagainst America, using the
Mexican cartels to do the dirtywork right, and so they're
destabilizing our country withall this death and destruction,
and we're not even talking aboutit.
So it's really, reallydisturbing, and I'm going to
continue to push as much as Ican and as hard as I can to try
(11:56):
to get the messages out.
So thanks for, you know, askinga very good question.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yes, sir, thank you, Thanks for being our voice,
especially during, I believe.
You went before Congress a lotof different times and thank you
for that.
It does sound like a crisis ofmass destruction.
To me, it sounds like an act ofterrorism.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
How do you feel?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
about that and what do you think needs to be done to
hold these people accountable?
Do you think we can hold thesepeople accountable?
What needs to be done?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Okay, so that's also a very, very good question.
Thank you All right, obviouslyyou know this topic very well.
So, number one, it is terrorism, because they're using a weapon
of mass destruction against ourcountry.
So what does that mean?
Right, when we think of aweapon of mass destruction, we
don't think of this poisonousfentanyl.
Nobody does right.
(12:47):
You got to have a new mindsetfor this.
But let's just keep it realsimple.
If Al-Qaeda had 50 pounds ofsome biological or chemical
weapon sitting in Mexico readyto deploy on America, what do
you think would happen?
Our intelligence community, ourDepartment of Defense, our law
enforcement, working with ourcounterparts, would go after
(13:09):
that really aggressively to tryto destroy it, to try to save
lives, destroy it to try to savelives, and they would get it
done, because we have somephenomenal people in America and
some of these other countriesare really, really sophisticated
investigators and we havereally good tools and
authorities.
But, for whatever reason, rightnow we have thousands and
(13:29):
thousands of pounds of fentanylsitting in labs in Mexico.
A lot of times we know wherethese labs are.
We should be destroying theselabs.
We should be stopping the flowof the cash back to the cartel
so they can't continue tooperate, so they have to be
treated as terrorists.
We've been very vocal aboutthat for several years now.
(13:49):
President Trump was real closeto declaring them as a terrorist
group, but you know, of coursethe politics got in the way.
You know Mexico is our you knowsouthern trading partner and
trying to keep relations andnobody understands it.
We're not talking aboutstarting a war with Mexico.
We're not talking about bombingthe country of Mexico.
(14:09):
We're talking about destroyingthis terror organization that's
killing our kids at a level thatwe've never seen in the history
of the country.
This is something new.
This isn't the ongoing crisis.
This isn't like exaggerating.
Just look at the statistics,just look at the print media
every day and look what'shappening in our country.
(14:30):
Like one example I like to give, because in the morgue out in
Franklin County, ohio, thecoroner put out a report in the
first six months of 2020, therewas like a 75% increase in
overdose deaths, but there waslike 85% of those were related
(14:51):
to fentanyl and syntheticopioids.
So it's not from kids takingmommy and daddy's legitimate oxy
or Percocet that's beingprescribed by a legitimate
pharmacy from a legitimatedoctor.
That's not what we're talkingabout Now.
That stuff's bad and the kidswill get addicted from taking
that stuff.
So they need to stay away frommommy and daddy's legitimate
(15:13):
medicine.
But my point is that's notwhat's killing them now.
What's killing them is thesecounterfeit pills and the pure
fentanyl that's coming in fromthe cartels in Mexico.
So it's got to be, you know,messaged a little bit better so
people understand.
Like, what is killing the kids?
Why are we seeing the level ofdeath and destruction like we've
(15:34):
never seen before?
And the answer is fentanyl.
And the answer is becauseMexico is working very, very
closely with the Chinesetransnational criminals and
they're really doing a good jobat carrying out their agenda.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yes, sir, it seems like it's a multibillion dollar
industry in this world andunfortunately we are feeling the
wrath of it.
Can you elaborate to?
It seems like there's just nosense of urgency to address this
and do you have any strategiesto do this?
And what about educating ourchildren about this?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
There's so many things that need to be done.
So, again, this is a complimentto you, because I didn't know
of you to be like this,professional, like global
podcaster, and your questionsare really outstanding.
I wish we'd get these kind ofquestions on the national news.
So thanks again.
I mean first of all, the drugeducation efforts were pretty
(16:33):
much shut down, like I rememberbeing in DEA when we lost our
budget for demand reduction.
But because DEA agents caredabout kids, we had many people,
including myself, that would goto schools, that would go to
community groups and discussthese emerging drugs, especially
these synthetic drugs that weremade in labs in China and the
(16:54):
methamphetamine explosion, butwe had no budget for it, right.
And then they have the drugczar's office.
Right, and the drug czar'soffice, they have a good program
with the HIDA program, the HighIntensity Drug Trafficking Area
Program, and they've done somegood job at training law
enforcement and providingresources to state and locals.
But what they failed to do inthe drug source office for many
(17:21):
years is they failed to educateour kids about the dangers of
these poisonous substances,right.
So we had a whole like 10, 15years with no education.
Years ago we used to have thesePSAs right Public service
announcements Like I would neverforget.
The one that hit me was whenthis little girl was talking to
her mother after she was killed.
She says Mommy, you killed mebecause the bomb that went off
(17:41):
was because of the marijuanathat you're smoking and the
money went to the terrorists.
They made a bomb and the bombkilled me.
It was a very impactful video.
I still have it.
But we haven't seen that stuffin years.
People just completely ignoredit.
We stopped the DARE programs inhigh schools.
We stopped the educationprograms and health and you know
(18:02):
the health classes.
It should be mandatory in everyschool.
We have to hit the kids whenthey're young.
You know they had massive youknow, you know drug.
You know, I'm sorry massiveeducation on cigarette and
tobacco smoking for years, whichdefinitely impacted, you know,
our kids as far as like stayingaway from cigarettes.
But here's the point.
So we missed all the drugeducation.
(18:23):
So we had this huge demand.
And then the cartels not justMexican cartels but the
Colombian cartels took advantageof the addicted population.
Cartels took advantage of theaddicted population.
At the same time, we had thecorporate cartels getting away
with dumping 100 billion opioidsinto the American population.
(18:44):
In a nine-year period,washington posted an outstanding
investigative story and theydetermined there was 100 billion
pills opioid pills, pillsdumped into America.
So it was like the perfectstorm.
You had white heroin coming infrom South America and Mexico,
you had these corporate cartelsdumping the opioids on our kids
and our communities, and thenyou had the fentanyl start
(19:07):
creeping its way in.
So you're right, there's been nosense of urgency Like, keep in
mind, right, think about it likethis On 9-11, which was a total
disaster, there were 3,000Americans, or 3,000 people died,
almost 3,000 in the tradecenter.
And then you look at the Afghanand the Iraqi war and about
(19:28):
7,000 Americans died in thosetwo conflicts.
So that's a total of 10,000.
By the way, my brother cameback in a body bag fighting for
the country in Afghanistan,right, so that's 10,000 people.
Then, if you look at how manydied just last year alone from
drugs, 92,000 approximately.
I'd say 100,000 is going to becloser to the number and look at
(19:51):
that, that's like 10%.
You know what I'm saying.
It's such a low number in thosethree catastrophic events in
our country's history.
But yet all these people aredying from drugs and no one even
talks about it.
So, yeah, they set up taskforces.
So I remember Attorney GeneralSessions set up specific task
(20:12):
forces to address this, evenbefore Sessions Eric Holder.
They had the transnationalcrime strategy where they had
Sinaloa cartel and now they haveadded the Jalisco New
Generation cartel to the list ofmajor targets that were putting
this poison in our country.
Right, but unfortunatelythere's no accountability.
(20:32):
Like they never ask for results, they never stay on top of like
progress that's been made.
You still have interagency gamesbeing played, agencies working
in silos and we're not using allthe tools of national power.
Now, the sad part is a lot ofthese agencies work very hard
every day, but what good is itif you're not working together
(20:54):
to go after the threat and useall the authorities, all the
capabilities that you have inyour arsenal to destroy this
threat to our national securityand to save lives?
So that's one point that reallygets me passionate because of
the lack of urgency.
Like how can you not get youknow crazy when you see all of
(21:15):
these kids that are dying andyou read the stories?
I mean, like anybody with aheart can understand that we
need some more aggressive action.
We can't just have talkingheads talking about these things
, you have to have action to dosomething about it and right now
I don't see a lot of, you know,unity of effort to go after
this threat.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Yeah, so you're right .
This is an American issue.
This is not a Democrat issue orRepublican issue.
This is not about Beltwaypolitics.
I'm sorry.
This is affecting everybodydirectly or indirectly in this
country and we just need to dosomething and we need direction.
And it's like it really doesmake me suspicious of our
(21:58):
government and our mainstreammedia why there's no talk about
this or public health awareness.
I mean, this should be acrossthe country, educating people
and to bring awareness.
Can you elaborate on that alittle bit?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Like what the hell is going on.
So, okay, couple of things.
Number one just keep this inmind and I have I have
significant firsthand experiencewhen I make this statement, so
I'm not making this up there's areason that I called the
Beltway the land of themake-believe.
Okay, because there's a lot ofstuff that goes on in the
Washington DC Beltway that thepublic just has no idea.
(22:33):
There's a lot of self-servingindividuals here that only care
about themselves and their bankaccounts, as opposed to the
mission that they signed on for.
And, don't get me wrong,there's also a significant
amount of people that go to workevery day and work their butt
off to try to do the right thingto save lives, but some of the
leadership people they getappointed to come in they don't
(22:56):
have the requisite skills, theydon't have the experience, they
don't have the respect of theworkers on the front lines, they
don't send out consistentmessaging and basically, it's
basically very dysfunctionalenvironment, right, very
bureaucratic, and so theawareness out there is very
cloudy, right?
People don't understand itbecause they're getting mixed
(23:17):
messages, right?
There's an old saying that Ihad for many years ago that
someone told me a leader issupposed to eliminate confusion
and not to create it.
Right now, our leaders arecreating confusion, like one day
you hear somebody say theborder's closed.
No, the border's open, come onin.
Right, we don't have school,you know, open for our kids
(23:38):
during COVID.
But if you're a migrant andyou're in San Diego, we have our
teachers come in and provideyou schooling, right?
So there's a lot of mixedmessaging, right, and so the
public doesn't know what's goingon.
They don't trust the governmentin many ways because the
government's credibility wentdown the tubes, right, and it's
been going on that for a whileit's not just started yesterday
(24:00):
and so there's got to be moreleaders that are stepping up to
put the problem on the tablewith solutions and start
bringing people together.
I spent a couple of days down inArizona at a border rally in
June 25th with some greatAmerican patriots.
The sheriffs of the borderstates Right and also the Angel
(24:22):
families were there and a lot ofother great leaders, like the
former ICE director, the formerHomeland Security, you know, the
Border Patrol CBP director andthen, of course, the current
Border Patrol president of theirunion, their counsel, brandon
Judd, so Tom Holm and MarkMorgan, brandon Judd, myself and
lots of sheriffs and otherleaders started speaking about
(24:45):
this and it's really not adifficult concept.
This is a common sense thing.
This is impacting all families.
It's destroying communities.
The cartels are instigating,agitating, enhancing all the
violence that's going on allaround America because a lot of
these disputes that are going onare drug-related for territory
(25:07):
right.
So it's pretty simple tounderstand.
You don't have to have an MITgraduate degree to understand
what the problem is.
Right, but the politics we'retrying to bury.
The problem but the reality isis all the constituents of the
political leaders should bepissed off.
This is not just, you know,this is not just Donald Trump or
(25:28):
Republican followers that aremad.
All these Democrats in allthese cities should be pissed
off too.
That taxes are going throughthe roof, police are retiring at
record levels, crime is surgingthrough the roof and our kids
are dying at record levels.
So what am I missing here?
If you don't have law and order, you don't have a country, and
we're on that path, all right.
(25:49):
And I'm not trying to be analarmist, I'm not trying to be
an exaggerator or try to, youknow, antagonize anybody.
I'm just trying to help savelives, and that's kind of what
we have to all do together andthe leaders that get elected
should be held accountable forinaction.
Okay, so if you say the Sinaloacartel is a threat to our
(26:10):
national security and you donothing about it, you should be
removed from office.
It's that simple, and so weneed more people speaking up and
talking about the problem andcoming up with solutions.
We have a lot of smart Americansthat have good solutions on
this stuff.
We just have to implement it.
We don't have to overthink it,because it's not that
complicated.
If you really think about it.
(26:32):
You have to have chemicals tomake drugs, you have to have
laboratory equipment, you haveto have the money to actually
buy the chemicals, and so youhave really the two main
components chemicals and money.
So if you shut down thechemicals, you shut down the
money flow and you destroy thelabs.
(26:53):
You're going to put them out ofbusiness, so the supply won't
be there.
Supply won't be there.
If the supply is not there,then the kids can't buy this
stuff.
It's not available, and youhave to work at the same time on
all the education on thesedangerous drugs, which is not
that hard to do If thegovernment has billions of
dollars to waste on sending itaround the world to other
countries.
Why don't they just use some ofthat money to start a media
(27:15):
campaign and start blitzing ournetwork TV and our Internet on
all these dangerous chemicalsthat are killing kids?
I don't think it'll be thathard to be honest.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Yes, sir, you're exactly right.
It doesn't take a rocketscientist to figure this out.
Derek, I can speak on behalf ofall parents who have lost our
sons and daughters to fentanylpoisoning.
We're all so fortunate to haveyou in the ring with us, with
your passion and drive to fightthis necessary fight and rage a
war on this domestic terrorismspreading throughout our country
(27:47):
.
With the distribution of thismost deadly drug, they're
murdering our loved ones inrecord numbers.
Thank you for discussing thisdrug crisis and how the cartels
are in conjunction with theChinese organized crime
syndicate, they are murderingour future generation.
These facts may be disturbingto some, but so necessary to be
(28:08):
brought out in order to bringpositive changes.
Thank you so much for yourcontinued support for all
families who have lost theirloved ones.
We love you, we need you.
Their loved ones we love you,we need you and we appreciate
you.
Many blessings, derek.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Thank you, I really appreciate it and look forward
to speaking again.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Hopefully, we can make some progress here.
Yes, sir, I hope so too, aslong as we're part, all part of
this coalition.
Yes, sir, I do.
I have faith and hope in peoplelike you and our country, so we
just have our work cut out forus.
But you know, we're going to doit.
We're going to do it.
There's a positive force behindus, that's for sure.
But I really do thank you and Iwould like to bring you back
(28:49):
for future podcast episodes andwe can discuss further some,
maybe some new developments thatare coming.
I do see hope every day thatsome positive changes are taking
place, so let's just keep thatball that are coming.
I do see hope every day thatsome positive changes are taking
place, so let's just keep thatball, that ball rolling, okay.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Sounds good and thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Thank you, take care, thank you, okay, bye.
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