June 26, 2025 • 31 mins
Freida McDonald shares her devastating experience of losing both her sons—Stephen to homicide and Michael to fentanyl poisoning—and how she transformed her grief into a mission to help others battling addiction. Her powerful story illustrates how grief can lead to addiction and how knowledge about the dangers of fentanyl and street drugs can save lives.
• Stephen was murdered in 2012, shot and killed during a robbery
• Michael turned to prescription painkillers (Roxys/Oxycontin) to cope with losing his brother
• The path from prescription pills to street drugs to heroin happens quickly and is common
• Fentanyl has infiltrated the street drug supply, making every use potentially fatal
• Michael died of fentanyl poisoning in 2016 while in recovery and likely had no idea what he was taking
• Pressed counterfeit pills and all street drugs now commonly contain deadly fentanyl
• Stephen had a tattoo reading "No K-N-O-W Hope" which inspired Freida's nonprofit organization
• Recovery requires facing the struggle every day, similar to grieving a profound loss
• Addiction is not simply a choice but a brain disease that compromises decision-making
• Helping others enter and maintain recovery brings Freida joy and purpose through her pain
https://www.knowhopenorthcarolina.com/
The Fatal Facts of Fentanyl podcast is dedicated to raising Awareness to the illicit FENTANYL crisis hitting the USA.
The goal is to SAVE LIVES and families from this travesty.
Awareness and Education are the Key.
Knowledge is Power!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lisa Carole (00:04):
This week's guest will be sharing her
heartbreaking story of not onlylosing one son, but her only two
sons due to separate tragedies.
Her older son, Stephen, wasrobbed, then shot and killed.
His younger brother, Michael,turned to opiates to help
relieve his pain of losing hisolder brother.
His journey led him to anaddiction that he tried so hard
(00:30):
to combat, yet he died fromfentanyl poisoning.
In speaking with their motherher name is Frieda we each
agreed that both of her son'sstories need to be shared.
Although Stephen and Michaeldied four years apart, each at
the young age of 24, as closebrothers, their lives and their
(00:52):
deaths are intertwined.
I believe everyone has a uniquestory to tell that brings value
to the world.
Freida is a very unique,inspirational and strong woman.
Her story will help othersunderstand about addiction and
how to turn your sorrow andgrief into helping others.
(01:13):
Let's all listen and learn.
Freida McDonald (01:21):
Lisa, it's so good to be here today.
Lisa Carole (01:25):
Hi Freida, Thank you.
Thank you for this interview.
I've come to know you as afriend.
Please share with our audienceyour story about your beautiful
boys.
Freida McDonald (01:36):
Well, I really appreciate the opportunity.
Lisa, as you mentioned, I lostmy son, Stephen Hoyle, January,
the 26th 2012.
And it was a homicide and welost him from gunshot and his
brother, Michael, was veryunderstandably devastated, as we
(01:59):
all were were, and many of hisfriends said that at that point
in his life that we began tolose Michael at the same time
that we lost Stephen.
I will say that for myself, Igot very busy going to grief
groups, trying to get myselfsurrounded by people that
(02:23):
understood that had also lostsomeone, and I managed to find a
connection with other peoplethat had lost someone to
homicide and that helped me.
But for Michael, he found otherways to deal with his grief and
unfortunately, he began toself-medicate and a part of that
(02:45):
ended up introducing him towhat he said the world of Roxy's
, and in that world he becameaddicted in a relatively fast
period of time and he alsoshared with me that, as a result
(03:13):
of taking the Roxy's andgetting addicted to them, that
the opportunity to get them wasbecoming more and more limited
as time went on, as time went onand he began to get them on the
streets and that's what endedup with his heroin addiction.
So we went from prescriptionpain pills to pills on the
(03:37):
street, to heroin, in arelatively short period of time.
Lisa Carole (03:42):
Yes, ma'am, I'm so sorry.
I know this is painful foreverybody within a family.
So what I'm hearing from you,Freida, do you feel the pain of
losing Stephen led Michael toopiates in order to help him
numb and cope with his pain.
Freida McDonald (03:59):
I do.
I feel like that.
He would say to me.
I think this is the best way toremember it.
He would say to me I'm reallyproud of you, mom, for going to
the grief groups.
I actually began to facilitatesome homicide grief groups and
he would give me credit fordoing that, for dealing with my
(04:20):
pain in that way.
He always said that he was justso proud of me for doing it.
I obviously would invite him togo with me to some visuals and
some other things associatedwith the things that I was doing
around homicide and he justalways said that he just did not
feel like he could do that.
But, as all of us know, we aregoing to do something with our
(04:44):
pain and when you are a veryyoung person 20 years old and
you're struggling with that kindof grief, just knowing that
there might be something thatwill take away that pain, you're
(05:11):
not going to think it throughin the way that you may if you
were an older person or a personthat had more life experience,
and so for him that was thechoice that he took just numb
the pain Exactly, I have heardthis story before numerous times
and in order to hide the painthat's actually what addiction
is is to cover and hide the pain.
Lisa Carole (05:30):
And, unfortunately, the opiates.
Like you said, it started withthe Roxy's, which is actually a
form of Oxycontin.
Is that correct?
That's correct, okay.
And then it moves to the streetheroin and now it's fentanyl.
That's killing people and it'smore deadly out here.
(05:52):
Can you tell me experiences andwhat you have learned about
fentanyl?
Freida McDonald (05:59):
Well, interestingly enough, as I said,
Michael himself told me that hewas using Roxy's as he was
reflecting back by the time wegot to rehab.
So fentanyl at that time andwe're talking now about 2013,
end of 2013, 2014 and 2015.
So we've learned a lot sincethen, I believe, but at that
(06:24):
time I did not even fentanyl wasnot on my radar.
I was not hearing aboutfentanyl.
I was not talking aboutfentanyl with people.
I was talking to people aboutoxys and having addictions
around that and it leading toheroin, but not fentanyl, and so
that was a new thing heroin butnot fentanyl and so that was a
(06:49):
new thing.
The first time I heard aboutfentanyl was when I got the
toxicology report for my son.
I did not know about it then,so I often say I wish I had
known then what I know now.
And of course, it's a hugeproblem now and we're hearing it
all the time, especially in thegrief groups and in the
(07:11):
recovery groups.
Everybody is losing loved onesto fentanyl, but at that time I
didn't know about it and that iswhat Michael died from, and I
believe I know that some peopledo go seek fentanyl.
I understand that from justtalking with people that are
(07:33):
struggling with addiction.
But I believe at that time thatMichael was, he was in a rehab,
he was in a recovery house.
He was in a rehab, he was in arecovery house and he was in.
I believe he just relapsed andhe was searching for heroin and
(07:54):
did not realize what he wasgetting.
And I do know who he was withand that story's been pretty
much backed up by the personthat he was with that he didn't
know he was doing fentanyl andso when he used what he thought
was a mount that he wasaccustomed to using, it was much
stronger, obviously, and itturned out from the toxology
(08:17):
report that he really didn'thave any heroin in his system.
He had furanil fentanyl, andthat was February of 2016.
So that was something that Isaw in a lot of other reports
after his that.
For a couple of months afterthat, we lost quite a few people
from that particular type offentanyl.
Lisa Carole (08:40):
Freida, you and I share the same story.
Actually, it's actually whathappened.
Freida, you and I share thesame story.
Actually it's actually whathappened.
Same parallel lives as with myson.
He was in active recovery and ina recovery house and both he
and his roommate died of purefentanyl and I truly believe I
spent the day with him that day.
(09:02):
Spent the day with him that dayand he showed me no indications
of relapsing, which was a shockto me and his family when he
passed away.
But I was under the same as you.
I didn't have a clue aboutfentanyl.
I didn't know anything aboutfentanyl until his toxicology
report and he had a trace ofcocaine.
(09:23):
So I truly believe that hewasn't purposely buying fentanyl
.
If he was, it was news to mebecause I never heard of it and
he actually, I think, was buyingor given something that he
didn't have a clue the amount offentanyl that was in this.
So it's death by deception asfar as I'm concerned, and
(09:47):
listening to you and so manyparents, tell us in your
experience, now that you haveunfortunately had to learn this.
All of us had to learn this thehard way.
Tell us what you have learned.
I know you are helping otherpeople, but tell us what you
have learned by the pressedpills that are out here.
People buying counterfeit pillsall fentanyl.
(10:09):
They think they're gettingother drugs.
Can you elaborate on that forus and teach our audience what
is truly going on nowadays?
Freida McDonald (10:18):
What I've learned, Lisa, since being
introduced to this from the lossof Michael, is that once an
addiction takes hold and sooften it does take hold from
some sort of an oxy prescription.
A big percentage of the timeI've seen that to be true, and
(10:44):
it may happen in different ways.
In my case it was from grief,from the loss of a brother.
In many of my friends' cases,whether it's their own addiction
or their loved one's addiction,it was accidents, injuries,
prescriptions, and that to meseems to be the majority of the
(11:06):
time.
Unfortunately, the hold ofaddiction comes on very, very
quickly, especially with theyoung people.
I know it's across the boardand it does not discriminate,
but with the young peoplethey're a little bit more of a
risk taker, as we probably allwere, in that they'll say well,
(11:29):
if this makes me not feel it asmuch, another one will make me
not feel it at all, and theyjust don't even realize the
danger that they're looking at.
So with the terrible fentanylissue that we're having, even
(11:49):
with the pill meals and theplaces that were prescribing it
throughout the country, as theseyears have unfolded, the
likelihood that someone would bethere that would know that
someone could be addicted, thatwas there.
I've oftentimes heard thatright outside the place where
(12:11):
they went to get theirprescription there was somebody
that they could go to if theycouldn't get what they needed.
That would literally be in theparking lot just pretty much
waiting for them.
So it's become.
It became as the pain clinicspopped up across the country and
(12:31):
as it became more of anepidemic.
It was so easy it was actuallyeasier to get it from the person
on the street than it was toget it from a doctor or from a
clinic, because they began toput it in the computer that you
were getting it and they couldcompare and they could see if
(12:53):
you were getting it somewhereelse.
And it became more expensivefor them and it was cheaper on
the street.
More expensive for them and itwas cheaper on the street.
And so what I didn't understandthat I understand now is that
you can get a bag of heroin or abundle for $10, or in some
places up the road you might beable to get it for $8, and you
(13:16):
might have to pay $25 or $30 fora pill.
$25 or $30 for a pill.
And so obviously it, just asthe addiction kicks in, it makes
sense to just be able to getwhat you get as most as you can.
What I didn't know, that I knownow is really Oxy and heroin is
the very same thing.
(13:36):
It's the same drug.
It's stigma makes it sound likeyou're taking something a lot
worse if you're doing heroin,versus taking something that was
prescribed.
But it's really the same thing.
And the fentanyl began to showup because it was cheaper and it
could be cut into the heroin.
It was cheaper for the dealerand it was easy, especially in
(14:00):
the beginning on the East Coast.
It would come in from China andit was easy to put it into as a
powder into it.
That would have been a littlebit more difficult with black
tar coming up from Mexico intothe West years ago, but it was
easy with the powder to cut itinto it.
And so that became more of thego-to.
(14:23):
And the stronger the addiction,the longer the addiction has
gone on and tolerance begins tobuild.
That's why you do hear peoplesaying that they actually were
seeking some fentanyl becausethey knew that that would give
them what they needed to not bedope sick anymore, knew that
(14:43):
that would give them what theyneeded to not be dope sick
anymore.
And the fentanyl from China wasbeing like the furanil fentanyl
definitely came from China andit was being ordered online, so
(15:05):
it was an opportunity for peopleto make a lot of money and sell
it really quickly, because theamount of people that were in
addiction had grownsubstantially over the years
that my children were or ourchildren, I should say, were in
those very vulnerable times intheir lives.
So that's, I guess, the biggestlesson that I've learned from
it is the danger of therespiratory system.
(15:30):
Shutting down is something thatwe're hearing more about, but I
don't know that in 2016, I don'treally know that my son even
was worried about that.
I think that he just thought,as long as he could measure it
out, he was doing what he hadalways done, that he didn't have
(15:50):
anything to worry about, and Ireally think that that was the
case then.
I've also heard people say thatthey started getting worried
about the fentanyl being inheroin and so they started doing
some other types of meth hasrisen and it's gotten more
popular, and there was anillusion that, well, the
(16:13):
fentanyl is showing up in theheroin, but not necessarily in
the meth.
But that's not even the caseanymore.
Now it's showing up ineverything the meth, the cocaine
, as well as the heroin and mostof the time, with addiction, it
really is polyuse, becauseyou've got to have something to
(16:36):
get you back up again if you'restill working, if you're still
doing something.
I didn't understand any ofthose things when my son was
living, but I do understand themnow.
Lisa Carole (16:48):
Yes, ma'am, I understand more about it myself.
We've had to educate ourselvesover the years, and it's not
been easy.
However, I don't want to giveup on hope, and I know you don't
either.
You're truly amazing and trueinspiration, and I'd like for
you to share with our audienceall of the many projects that
(17:09):
you have established and work onin honor of your son's lives.
Freida McDonald (17:14):
Oh, I'll be glad to thank you for the
Stephen.
He had a tattoo that said noK-N-O-W Hope and his KNOW Hope
tattoo kind of surprised me.
It was the first one he hadever gotten and I didn't have
one at the time and I was justquestioning him about why he got
(17:36):
that and he said you got a KNOWHope, Mama.
And that just really has stuckwith me, particularly after
losing him, and so I havestarted a nonprofit, Know Hope
North Carolina, and the missionof that is to remember all of
those that we've lost and togive hope to those who are
(17:58):
struggling and, of course, tosupport those in recovery, those
who are struggling, and, ofcourse, to support those in
recovery.
I always feel like that any ofmy loved ones and I have a lot
that are in recovery they'reheroes to me.
Anybody that's working onbattling this demon.
They have to do it every day.
(18:20):
And my son, Michael, hisfavorite reading in NA when he
was really working on his ownsobriety was Just for Today.
And I feel like that no hopeand just for today go together
very well, because that's allany of us can do Just for today,
no hope, and I feel like that,the grief that we are
(18:43):
experiencing in these horrificlosses that we've had, is very
parallel to being in recovery.
I'm not trying to say at allthat I don't think that their
struggle, a person that is inrecovery, person that is in
(19:08):
recovery is not different, inthe sense that I know that being
dope, sick and the shame andguilt and all those things that
go along with addiction are justabsolutely horrific.
Where I see the parallel isthat once we have this kind of
grief or once we have this kindof addiction, it's with us.
We have to face it every singleday for the remainder of our
lives.
(19:28):
We can't just walk away from it.
And I know that my son, if hehad realized and again I'm
talking about Michael and hisaddiction if he had realized
that once he opened that door tothe Roxies which led to the
heroin which led to his deathfrom fentanyl, that he would
have never opened the door.
(19:49):
Knowledge is not only powerfulbut it generates compassion and
patience, Because I realize thatif Michael had really known
(20:11):
what he was getting into, thathe wouldn't have made that
choice.
And you oftentimes hear well,they're making a choice.
And my response to that is theymay have been making a choice
in the beginning, but once theytook a hold of them, once they
were in the throes of addiction,once their decision-making
(20:32):
capabilities became compromisedand once all the triggers of
dopamine and wanting to useagain kicked in, that's not a
choice, that's an addiction,that's a brain disease and
that's something that they haveto struggle with every single
day of their lives.
And to me, that's a braveperson that says enough is
(20:59):
enough and I'm going to put thisdown and I'm going to Give up
everything I know to go intosome kind of a program for a
period of time and work onmyself and be willing to get up
every day and do it again.
Lisa Carole (21:15):
Yes, you're very correct when you say that I tell
my son you are the strongestperson I know in order to face
this and try to do somethingabout it, because it takes a lot
of strength and courage and itis not easy.
(21:37):
It's like a merry-go-round thatsomeone cannot get off of,
Freida.
I also want to know whatinspires you, what moves you?
I understand that you also arehelping now with other
recovering addicts and they'rein active recovery right now.
Tell me about that experienceand I'm sure they love you and
they are so appreciative of you,but tell me how that has
(21:57):
changed your life too, andhelping other people with this.
Freida McDonald (22:01):
Thank you, Lisa , for the opportunity.
I can honestly say that, out ofeverything that I'm trying to
do right now with Know Hope,North Carolina and with what
I've mentioned about supportgroups and helping people,
supporting people in recoverymakes my heart sing and gives me
(22:25):
the most hope is seeing someonethat has been really struggling
with their addiction and reachout and say you know what I
really need to get into detoxand I really need to get a
long-term plan in place, andthat there's nothing that is
(22:46):
more rewarding than being ableto take someone to a detox,
watch them go through theirintake and assessment and spend
that that seven to ten days,whatever the case may be, and do
that and then say I don't wantto just go back and do.
(23:07):
I know I'll just end up goingback and doing the same things.
I want to go straight from hereand do something else and to
see that happen and then toactually witness someone coming
out of a year-long program andgraduating from it and then
speaking at a group to peoplethat have only been in recovery
(23:30):
from 30 days.
It just warms my heart and Ihave had the opportunity not
from really anything at all thatI've done, but I've had the
opportunity because of thepeople that Stephen and Michael
knew that both know that I havehelped other people.
Their friends and loved oneshave come to me over the,
(23:53):
particularly over the last fiveyears, asking for help, and so
I've had the privilege of beingable to.
That news has been shared withtheir friends and so I've just
had the privilege of having alot of people come to me and
want help and seeing them dowell, even if it takes it
(24:15):
doesn't matter how long it takesback and forth to seeing them.
Once they get that seed plantedof recovery or that tool in
their tool belt and they want tocontinue to go, I'm always just
so honored to be able to watchthat process unfold.
That's one of the mostrewarding things that I can say
(24:35):
about what I do now.
Lisa Carole (24:38):
Well, thank you so much.
What I'm hearing from you isrecovery is possible and I hope
and pray that more awareness andeducation is brought to this
matter.
I hope the stigma goes away andI just want to thank you so
very much for this interview andeverything that you do.
(25:00):
My heart and prayers go out toyou, my friend, and I'm so
honored to have you and as my,to have met you, and amidst our
pain, there are moments of joy,and I just want to wish you many
blessings.
Thank you, frida.
Freida McDonald (25:15):
Thank you.
Lisa Carole (25:15):
Lisa, have a great day, thank you.
Thank you, you're welcome.
This week's guest will be sharing her
heartbreaking story of not onlylosing one son, but her only two
sons due to separate tragedies.
Her older son, Stephen, wasrobbed, then shot and killed.
His younger brother, Michael,turned to opiates to help
relieve his pain of losing hisolder brother.
His journey led him to anaddiction that he tried so hard
(00:30):
to combat, yet he died fromfentanyl poisoning.
In speaking with their motherher name is Frieda we each
agreed that both of her son'sstories need to be shared.
Although Stephen and Michaeldied four years apart, each at
the young age of 24, as closebrothers, their lives and their
(00:52):
deaths are intertwined.
I believe everyone has a uniquestory to tell that brings value
to the world.
Freida is a very unique,inspirational and strong woman.
Her story will help othersunderstand about addiction and
how to turn your sorrow andgrief into helping others.
(01:13):
Let's all listen and learn.
Freida McDonald (01:21):
Lisa, it's so good to be here today.
Lisa Carole (01:25):
Hi Freida, Thank you.
Thank you for this interview.
I've come to know you as afriend.
Please share with our audienceyour story about your beautiful
boys.
Freida McDonald (01:36):
Well, I really appreciate the opportunity.
Lisa, as you mentioned, I lostmy son, Stephen Hoyle, January,
the 26th 2012.
And it was a homicide and welost him from gunshot and his
brother, Michael, was veryunderstandably devastated, as we
(01:59):
all were were, and many of hisfriends said that at that point
in his life that we began tolose Michael at the same time
that we lost Stephen.
I will say that for myself, Igot very busy going to grief
groups, trying to get myselfsurrounded by people that
(02:23):
understood that had also lostsomeone, and I managed to find a
connection with other peoplethat had lost someone to
homicide and that helped me.
But for Michael, he found otherways to deal with his grief and
unfortunately, he began toself-medicate and a part of that
(02:45):
ended up introducing him towhat he said the world of Roxy's
, and in that world he becameaddicted in a relatively fast
period of time and he alsoshared with me that, as a result
(03:13):
of taking the Roxy's andgetting addicted to them, that
the opportunity to get them wasbecoming more and more limited
as time went on, as time went onand he began to get them on the
streets and that's what endedup with his heroin addiction.
So we went from prescriptionpain pills to pills on the
(03:37):
street, to heroin, in arelatively short period of time.
Lisa Carole (03:42):
Yes, ma'am, I'm so sorry.
I know this is painful foreverybody within a family.
So what I'm hearing from you,Freida, do you feel the pain of
losing Stephen led Michael toopiates in order to help him
numb and cope with his pain.
Freida McDonald (03:59):
I do.
I feel like that.
He would say to me.
I think this is the best way toremember it.
He would say to me I'm reallyproud of you, mom, for going to
the grief groups.
I actually began to facilitatesome homicide grief groups and
he would give me credit fordoing that, for dealing with my
(04:20):
pain in that way.
He always said that he was justso proud of me for doing it.
I obviously would invite him togo with me to some visuals and
some other things associatedwith the things that I was doing
around homicide and he justalways said that he just did not
feel like he could do that.
But, as all of us know, we aregoing to do something with our
(04:44):
pain and when you are a veryyoung person 20 years old and
you're struggling with that kindof grief, just knowing that
there might be something thatwill take away that pain, you're
(05:11):
not going to think it throughin the way that you may if you
were an older person or a personthat had more life experience,
and so for him that was thechoice that he took just numb
the pain Exactly, I have heardthis story before numerous times
and in order to hide the painthat's actually what addiction
is is to cover and hide the pain.
Lisa Carole (05:30):
And, unfortunately, the opiates.
Like you said, it started withthe Roxy's, which is actually a
form of Oxycontin.
Is that correct?
That's correct, okay.
And then it moves to the streetheroin and now it's fentanyl.
That's killing people and it'smore deadly out here.
(05:52):
Can you tell me experiences andwhat you have learned about
fentanyl?
Freida McDonald (05:59):
Well, interestingly enough, as I said,
Michael himself told me that hewas using Roxy's as he was
reflecting back by the time wegot to rehab.
So fentanyl at that time andwe're talking now about 2013,
end of 2013, 2014 and 2015.
So we've learned a lot sincethen, I believe, but at that
(06:24):
time I did not even fentanyl wasnot on my radar.
I was not hearing aboutfentanyl.
I was not talking aboutfentanyl with people.
I was talking to people aboutoxys and having addictions
around that and it leading toheroin, but not fentanyl, and so
that was a new thing heroin butnot fentanyl and so that was a
(06:49):
new thing.
The first time I heard aboutfentanyl was when I got the
toxicology report for my son.
I did not know about it then,so I often say I wish I had
known then what I know now.
And of course, it's a hugeproblem now and we're hearing it
all the time, especially in thegrief groups and in the
(07:11):
recovery groups.
Everybody is losing loved onesto fentanyl, but at that time I
didn't know about it and that iswhat Michael died from, and I
believe I know that some peopledo go seek fentanyl.
I understand that from justtalking with people that are
(07:33):
struggling with addiction.
But I believe at that time thatMichael was, he was in a rehab,
he was in a recovery house.
He was in a rehab, he was in arecovery house and he was in.
I believe he just relapsed andhe was searching for heroin and
(07:54):
did not realize what he wasgetting.
And I do know who he was withand that story's been pretty
much backed up by the personthat he was with that he didn't
know he was doing fentanyl andso when he used what he thought
was a mount that he wasaccustomed to using, it was much
stronger, obviously, and itturned out from the toxology
(08:17):
report that he really didn'thave any heroin in his system.
He had furanil fentanyl, andthat was February of 2016.
So that was something that Isaw in a lot of other reports
after his that.
For a couple of months afterthat, we lost quite a few people
from that particular type offentanyl.
Lisa Carole (08:40):
Freida, you and I share the same story.
Actually, it's actually whathappened.
Freida, you and I share thesame story.
Actually it's actually whathappened.
Same parallel lives as with myson.
He was in active recovery and ina recovery house and both he
and his roommate died of purefentanyl and I truly believe I
spent the day with him that day.
(09:02):
Spent the day with him that dayand he showed me no indications
of relapsing, which was a shockto me and his family when he
passed away.
But I was under the same as you.
I didn't have a clue aboutfentanyl.
I didn't know anything aboutfentanyl until his toxicology
report and he had a trace ofcocaine.
(09:23):
So I truly believe that hewasn't purposely buying fentanyl
.
If he was, it was news to mebecause I never heard of it and
he actually, I think, was buyingor given something that he
didn't have a clue the amount offentanyl that was in this.
So it's death by deception asfar as I'm concerned, and
(09:47):
listening to you and so manyparents, tell us in your
experience, now that you haveunfortunately had to learn this.
All of us had to learn this thehard way.
Tell us what you have learned.
I know you are helping otherpeople, but tell us what you
have learned by the pressedpills that are out here.
People buying counterfeit pillsall fentanyl.
(10:09):
They think they're gettingother drugs.
Can you elaborate on that forus and teach our audience what
is truly going on nowadays?
Freida McDonald (10:18):
What I've learned, Lisa, since being
introduced to this from the lossof Michael, is that once an
addiction takes hold and sooften it does take hold from
some sort of an oxy prescription.
A big percentage of the timeI've seen that to be true, and
(10:44):
it may happen in different ways.
In my case it was from grief,from the loss of a brother.
In many of my friends' cases,whether it's their own addiction
or their loved one's addiction,it was accidents, injuries,
prescriptions, and that to meseems to be the majority of the
(11:06):
time.
Unfortunately, the hold ofaddiction comes on very, very
quickly, especially with theyoung people.
I know it's across the boardand it does not discriminate,
but with the young peoplethey're a little bit more of a
risk taker, as we probably allwere, in that they'll say well,
(11:29):
if this makes me not feel it asmuch, another one will make me
not feel it at all, and theyjust don't even realize the
danger that they're looking at.
So with the terrible fentanylissue that we're having, even
(11:49):
with the pill meals and theplaces that were prescribing it
throughout the country, as theseyears have unfolded, the
likelihood that someone would bethere that would know that
someone could be addicted, thatwas there.
I've oftentimes heard thatright outside the place where
(12:11):
they went to get theirprescription there was somebody
that they could go to if theycouldn't get what they needed.
That would literally be in theparking lot just pretty much
waiting for them.
So it's become.
It became as the pain clinicspopped up across the country and
(12:31):
as it became more of anepidemic.
It was so easy it was actuallyeasier to get it from the person
on the street than it was toget it from a doctor or from a
clinic, because they began toput it in the computer that you
were getting it and they couldcompare and they could see if
(12:53):
you were getting it somewhereelse.
And it became more expensivefor them and it was cheaper on
the street.
More expensive for them and itwas cheaper on the street.
And so what I didn't understandthat I understand now is that
you can get a bag of heroin or abundle for $10, or in some
places up the road you might beable to get it for $8, and you
(13:16):
might have to pay $25 or $30 fora pill.
$25 or $30 for a pill.
And so obviously it, just asthe addiction kicks in, it makes
sense to just be able to getwhat you get as most as you can.
What I didn't know, that I knownow is really Oxy and heroin is
the very same thing.
(13:36):
It's the same drug.
It's stigma makes it sound likeyou're taking something a lot
worse if you're doing heroin,versus taking something that was
prescribed.
But it's really the same thing.
And the fentanyl began to showup because it was cheaper and it
could be cut into the heroin.
It was cheaper for the dealerand it was easy, especially in
(14:00):
the beginning on the East Coast.
It would come in from China andit was easy to put it into as a
powder into it.
That would have been a littlebit more difficult with black
tar coming up from Mexico intothe West years ago, but it was
easy with the powder to cut itinto it.
And so that became more of thego-to.
(14:23):
And the stronger the addiction,the longer the addiction has
gone on and tolerance begins tobuild.
That's why you do hear peoplesaying that they actually were
seeking some fentanyl becausethey knew that that would give
them what they needed to not bedope sick anymore, knew that
(14:43):
that would give them what theyneeded to not be dope sick
anymore.
And the fentanyl from China wasbeing like the furanil fentanyl
definitely came from China andit was being ordered online, so
(15:05):
it was an opportunity for peopleto make a lot of money and sell
it really quickly, because theamount of people that were in
addiction had grownsubstantially over the years
that my children were or ourchildren, I should say, were in
those very vulnerable times intheir lives.
So that's, I guess, the biggestlesson that I've learned from
it is the danger of therespiratory system.
(15:30):
Shutting down is something thatwe're hearing more about, but I
don't know that in 2016, I don'treally know that my son even
was worried about that.
I think that he just thought,as long as he could measure it
out, he was doing what he hadalways done, that he didn't have
(15:50):
anything to worry about, and Ireally think that that was the
case then.
I've also heard people say thatthey started getting worried
about the fentanyl being inheroin and so they started doing
some other types of meth hasrisen and it's gotten more
popular, and there was anillusion that, well, the
(16:13):
fentanyl is showing up in theheroin, but not necessarily in
the meth.
But that's not even the caseanymore.
Now it's showing up ineverything the meth, the cocaine
, as well as the heroin and mostof the time, with addiction, it
really is polyuse, becauseyou've got to have something to
(16:36):
get you back up again if you'restill working, if you're still
doing something.
I didn't understand any ofthose things when my son was
living, but I do understand themnow.
Lisa Carole (16:48):
Yes, ma'am, I understand more about it myself.
We've had to educate ourselvesover the years, and it's not
been easy.
However, I don't want to giveup on hope, and I know you don't
either.
You're truly amazing and trueinspiration, and I'd like for
you to share with our audienceall of the many projects that
(17:09):
you have established and work onin honor of your son's lives.
Freida McDonald (17:14):
Oh, I'll be glad to thank you for the
Stephen.
He had a tattoo that said noK-N-O-W Hope and his KNOW Hope
tattoo kind of surprised me.
It was the first one he hadever gotten and I didn't have
one at the time and I was justquestioning him about why he got
(17:36):
that and he said you got a KNOWHope, Mama.
And that just really has stuckwith me, particularly after
losing him, and so I havestarted a nonprofit, Know Hope
North Carolina, and the missionof that is to remember all of
those that we've lost and togive hope to those who are
(17:58):
struggling and, of course, tosupport those in recovery, those
who are struggling, and, ofcourse, to support those in
recovery.
I always feel like that any ofmy loved ones and I have a lot
that are in recovery they'reheroes to me.
Anybody that's working onbattling this demon.
They have to do it every day.
(18:20):
And my son, Michael, hisfavorite reading in NA when he
was really working on his ownsobriety was Just for Today.
And I feel like that no hopeand just for today go together
very well, because that's allany of us can do Just for today,
no hope, and I feel like that,the grief that we are
(18:43):
experiencing in these horrificlosses that we've had, is very
parallel to being in recovery.
I'm not trying to say at allthat I don't think that their
struggle, a person that is inrecovery, person that is in
(19:08):
recovery is not different, inthe sense that I know that being
dope, sick and the shame andguilt and all those things that
go along with addiction are justabsolutely horrific.
Where I see the parallel isthat once we have this kind of
grief or once we have this kindof addiction, it's with us.
We have to face it every singleday for the remainder of our
lives.
(19:28):
We can't just walk away from it.
And I know that my son, if hehad realized and again I'm
talking about Michael and hisaddiction if he had realized
that once he opened that door tothe Roxies which led to the
heroin which led to his deathfrom fentanyl, that he would
have never opened the door.
(19:49):
Knowledge is not only powerfulbut it generates compassion and
patience, Because I realize thatif Michael had really known
(20:11):
what he was getting into, thathe wouldn't have made that
choice.
And you oftentimes hear well,they're making a choice.
And my response to that is theymay have been making a choice
in the beginning, but once theytook a hold of them, once they
were in the throes of addiction,once their decision-making
(20:32):
capabilities became compromisedand once all the triggers of
dopamine and wanting to useagain kicked in, that's not a
choice, that's an addiction,that's a brain disease and
that's something that they haveto struggle with every single
day of their lives.
And to me, that's a braveperson that says enough is
(20:59):
enough and I'm going to put thisdown and I'm going to Give up
everything I know to go intosome kind of a program for a
period of time and work onmyself and be willing to get up
every day and do it again.
Lisa Carole (21:15):
Yes, you're very correct when you say that I tell
my son you are the strongestperson I know in order to face
this and try to do somethingabout it, because it takes a lot
of strength and courage and itis not easy.
(21:37):
It's like a merry-go-round thatsomeone cannot get off of,
Freida.
I also want to know whatinspires you, what moves you?
I understand that you also arehelping now with other
recovering addicts and they'rein active recovery right now.
Tell me about that experienceand I'm sure they love you and
they are so appreciative of you,but tell me how that has
(21:57):
changed your life too, andhelping other people with this.
Freida McDonald (22:01):
Thank you, Lisa , for the opportunity.
I can honestly say that, out ofeverything that I'm trying to
do right now with Know Hope,North Carolina and with what
I've mentioned about supportgroups and helping people,
supporting people in recoverymakes my heart sing and gives me
(22:25):
the most hope is seeing someonethat has been really struggling
with their addiction and reachout and say you know what I
really need to get into detoxand I really need to get a
long-term plan in place, andthat there's nothing that is
(22:46):
more rewarding than being ableto take someone to a detox,
watch them go through theirintake and assessment and spend
that that seven to ten days,whatever the case may be, and do
that and then say I don't wantto just go back and do.
(23:07):
I know I'll just end up goingback and doing the same things.
I want to go straight from hereand do something else and to
see that happen and then toactually witness someone coming
out of a year-long program andgraduating from it and then
speaking at a group to peoplethat have only been in recovery
(23:30):
from 30 days.
It just warms my heart and Ihave had the opportunity not
from really anything at all thatI've done, but I've had the
opportunity because of thepeople that Stephen and Michael
knew that both know that I havehelped other people.
Their friends and loved oneshave come to me over the,
(23:53):
particularly over the last fiveyears, asking for help, and so
I've had the privilege of beingable to.
That news has been shared withtheir friends and so I've just
had the privilege of having alot of people come to me and
want help and seeing them dowell, even if it takes it
(24:15):
doesn't matter how long it takesback and forth to seeing them.
Once they get that seed plantedof recovery or that tool in
their tool belt and they want tocontinue to go, I'm always just
so honored to be able to watchthat process unfold.
That's one of the mostrewarding things that I can say
(24:35):
about what I do now.
Lisa Carole (24:38):
Well, thank you so much.
What I'm hearing from you isrecovery is possible and I hope
and pray that more awareness andeducation is brought to this
matter.
I hope the stigma goes away andI just want to thank you so
very much for this interview andeverything that you do.
(25:00):
My heart and prayers go out toyou, my friend, and I'm so
honored to have you and as my,to have met you, and amidst our
pain, there are moments of joy,and I just want to wish you many
blessings.
Thank you, frida.
Freida McDonald (25:15):
Thank you.
Lisa Carole (25:15):
Lisa, have a great day, thank you.
Thank you, you're welcome.
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