July 9, 2025 • 51 mins
A federal narcotics officer who lost his son to fentanyl shares his heartbreaking personal story while explaining the realities of fighting the deadly opioid crisis from both sides.
• Officer Rick's 19-year-old son died from fentanyl after multiple overdoses, despite Rick's 25 years of experience fighting illegal drugs
• The progression from marijuana to high-potency THC vapes (80-90% THC) to fentanyl poisoning
• Narcan (naloxone) saved Rick's son twice before the fatal overdose
• All families should have Narcan readily available regardless of suspected drug use
• Fentanyl is commonly smoked, snorted, or ingested in pill form rather than injected
• Law enforcement must build solid cases with "pieces of the puzzle" to successfully prosecute dealers
• Long-term investigations target higher-level suppliers rather than just street dealers
• The state court system is "broken" compared to federal prosecutions that have "more teeth"
• Drug dealers profit from death, exploiting users' "bulletproof mentality"
• The fentanyl crisis will likely worsen before improving without significant systemic changes
If you suspect someone is using drugs, please get Narcan. It's available at most pharmacies, sometimes for free, and could save a life. Call your representatives and senators to demand action on this crisis.
The Fatal Facts of Fentanyl podcast is dedicated to raising Awareness to the illicit FENTANYL crisis hitting the USA.
The goal is to SAVE LIVES and families from this travesty.
Awareness and Education are the Key.
Knowledge is Power!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
The role of law enforcement in addressing
illegal drugs in general andopioids specifically has evolved
through time.
It seems that law enforcementagencies are working towards
three different goals.
Number one preventing opioidfatalities.
Number two provide longer-termassistance to opioid users to
(00:27):
help them into recovery.
Number three enforcing lawsagainst the illegal sales of
opioids.
By the very nature of theirwork, law enforcement are on the
front lines of the opioidcrisis.
My next guest is a United StatesNavy veteran, a retired state
(00:48):
police officer and now a federalofficer assigned to the
narcotics division, also, sadlyto say, a father who lost his
son to fentanyl.
Can you even imagine how youwould feel that you devoted your
whole career in trying tocombat these crimes and your own
(01:12):
son would lose his life to thevery same thing that you've been
fighting?
I can't imagine.
My next guest is Rick.
My next guest is Rick.
He has seen everythingimaginable in his career and is
enduring the most pain with theloss of his own son to this
(01:33):
fentanyl crisis in our country.
Welcome, rick.
First and foremost, my deepestheartfelt empathy for you and
your family.
Foremost, my deepest heartfeltempathy for you and your family.
Also, my gratitude andappreciation for your devoted
service to your country, aspainful as it is.
(01:54):
Please share with us your sonand how you tried so hard to
educate and save his life hardto educate and save his life, he
said.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
First of all I want to thank you for having me.
I have to be honest with you, Iwish I wasn't here talking to
you about the dangers offentanyl.
But unfortunately, not only.
You know myself, being in lawenforcement over 25 years, I
fight the fight every day,trying to get the drugs off the
street.
Never in a million years wouldI think our family would have
(02:27):
been hit by the tragedy offentanyl.
I tried to educate my son aboutthe dangers of drugs.
We thought we had him on theright path.
My son just graduated last year.
He was set to go to college andunfortunately last year we lost
our 19-year-old son.
(02:47):
You know, for me my son he wasalways.
You know people would say I wassmart and my son he just was
amazing.
And that's what kills ourfamily is the loss of life of
(03:11):
our son and the potential thathe had.
We first started realizing thatmy son was into drugs and never
did in a million years would wethink that he would even go
down the path of doing fentanyl.
Never did in a million yearswould we think that he would
even go down the path of doingfentanyl.
My son had first started withmarijuana and then later the
(03:35):
marijuana did progress to thevape cartridges and then later
to vape.
I believe he did some otherdrugs.
In July of last year in 2020,was the first time we realized
that my son was doing fentanyland, as you can imagine, as any
parent, we actually went tocheck on my son in the morning
and found him lying on the floor.
(03:55):
One of the things that I do inmy career is I get all types of
drugs off the street and, luckyfor me, that particular day I
had Narcan, which it's calledNarcan or Naloxone.
You know I rushed up and I wentfrom you know dad mode to cop
mode and, just like I did when Iwas a state police officer, I
(04:17):
provided you know first aid topeople.
Once again, never would I thinkI'd be doing first aid CPR on
my own son.
Virtually in July of last year,I was able to give my son a
couple shots of Narcan.
We called the ambulance.
My son went to the hospital fora couple days and, you know, at
(04:38):
that time we thought maybe itwas just.
You know, he got a bad batch ofpill or something.
He didn't know what he wastaking.
We had no idea of his addictionand how addictive fentanyl can
be.
We thought our son was my wifeand I.
We thought our son was doingwell.
You know he was still in schoolat that point.
(04:59):
No, he'd already finishedschool actually, but he was
working, was doing well.
We thought he was set to go tocollege and I believe it was in
August the second time.
A few months later we found ourson again on the floor.
Luckily, once again I had to gointo cop mode.
Give my son Narcan and you know, once again the hardest thing a
(05:21):
parent could ever see seeingyour kid lying there and wanting
to help them and realizingthere's only so much you could
do.
Same thing.
Ambulance came, they took himto the hospital, went to the
hospital for a few days, got outand that was the toughest thing
for us is my son at 19,.
We were trying to get him intosome type of program and
(05:42):
unfortunately for us I'm notsure how it is elsewhere across
the country, but there isn't alot of resources when somebody's
adult considered 19, andparents, even though our son was
living at home, we couldn'tforce him to go into some type
of program.
So we monitored our son Onceagain.
We thought he was on a goodpath.
(06:03):
And unfortunately, the thirdand last time we found our son
in the morning, it was inOctober.
And same thing, I gave my sonNarcan and it was too late.
And when I saw him I kind ofknew it was too late, but I
still tried and tried and trieduntil the ambulance got here and
I was not able to revive him.
(06:24):
And so that's my story, andunfortunately I hear stories
like that not just in my statebut all across the country.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yes, rick, I am so sorry about your son and you're
right, this is straight acrossthe board.
There's no boundaries, it's allover this country and it's
going to continue, as you wellknow.
You mentioned Narcan.
A lot of people in our audienceare aware of Narcan, but then a
(06:57):
lot of people are not aware ofNarcan.
Can you explain to our audiencewhat Narcan is?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
So Narcan, and if you're watching this, I want to
tell everybody that everybody isat risk.
If you have a young adult, ifyou have kids, even if you don't
I mean the fentanyl iseverywhere Everybody's at risk.
If you don't have Narcan, goget some.
There's places where you canget free Narcan.
(07:25):
There's places you can go toWalgreens and get Narcan,
sometimes free or relativelypretty cheap.
But Narcan helps reverse theeffects of overdose.
It doesn't cure the overdosebut it brings them back
essentially from that fatal dose.
It helps reduce that andbecause, like my son, the
(07:46):
fentanyl was so strong that thebody forgets to stop breathing.
So luckily, when I had my sonwith Narcan, the Narcan was
actually able to bring him backand help him breathe.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yes, sir, thank you for that explanation and, yes,
people need to contact theirstate about the availability of
Narcan or your county that youlive in.
Like Rick just stated, it isfree for a lot of people or it
is prescription, but the mainthing is to have Narcan in your
(08:23):
home.
Most law enforcement do carryNarcan to combat this, and also
EMS people, the emergencyresponders, first responders and
, of course, the ERs, but it isimportant nowadays, like he just
explained, due to this fentanylcrisis and you know all the
(08:44):
opioids and all the drugsfloating around, it's important
to have Narcan on board.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I want to share a story with you.
About two, three weeks ago Icame across a mother that had
suspected that her kid was usingdrugs.
And I did ask her if she hadNarcan at home and she said she
didn't and actually gave hersome and she suspected her son
was just using marijuana andother things.
And you know, same like my son,didn't know the extent of
(09:10):
possibly what he was doing andunfortunately I prayed to her.
I said here's Narcan, you know.
I explained how to use it and Iprayed that she would never
have to use it and unfortunatelythe day I gave it to her she
used it.
That night saved her kid and sofar her kid's on the right path
and I hope he continues downthat road.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Oh, my goodness, Thank you for sharing that story
.
And, as you stated, fentanyland these drugs can be in weed
and pot, marijuana, whatever youwant to call it all these
counterfeit pills.
So NORCAN can possibly work onsaving somebody's life and thank
you for introducing that mom toit.
If you will, please provide ouraudience your law enforcement
(09:55):
background that you are allowedto share with us at this time.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yes, I'm proud to share that I'm a United States
Navy veteran.
I proudly served four years forour country.
After I got out I went tocollege and then I was fortunate
to get picked up with the statepolice and I worked everything
from the front line.
I did patrol.
My day-to-day patrol was torespond to calls, not only be
(10:22):
proactive but reactive, and Ifought the fight for my state,
arrested criminals, tookcriminals off the street.
And then I was fortunate tocontinue to move up through the
ranks.
I finished in our trainingdivision and then ended up
finishing out with our specialoperations division where I did
a wide variety of things,everything from overseeing our
(10:45):
SWAT team to bomb team andpretty much all aspects of our
department and, you know, searchand rescue, other things like
that.
Currently I'm a federal officer.
I'm assigned to the NarcoticsDivision.
I'm not allowed to share who Iwork with, but I'm the narcotics
(11:06):
division that I work with.
It's my job now and my unitthat I work with.
Our job every day is to go outthere and locate and arrest
people who possess, distributeand manufacture illegal
narcotics and, unfortunately,and manufacture illegal
(11:27):
narcotics and, unfortunately,even back when I was a state
police officer, I got some drugsand I would get drug dealers
and drug users.
But now in my job as a federalofficer, the amount of drugs
that we see on a daily, weeklybasis.
It's unbelievable.
Even this week I got a felonwith a gun with fentanyl and
that was a career felon andthat's one.
I'll talk a little bit laterabout that.
(11:49):
But that's one of the problemstoday in our state and I believe
the 50 states across the UnitedStates is that the state court
system is broken and fortunatelyfor us now when we get somebody
on federal charges they get hitpretty hard.
I recently took down a felon.
It was a long-terminvestigation.
(12:11):
We got him with a wide varietyof drugs, everything from
cocaine to heroin, and also hewas a felon with a gun and, I'm
sad to say, we were able to geta conviction on him and he's
going to be going away for alittle while.
So on the state side weprobably get a slap on the wrist
and, you know, you know, a freegift card, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Thank you.
So you kind of touched upon mynext question, but I'm going to
ask it anyway, in case we leftout anything.
But I'm going to ask it anywayin case we left out anything.
I want you to explain to ouraudience your firsthand
experiences with the disruptionof the drug trafficking
operations that supply ourcommunities with fentanyl, as
you're loud, without divulgingsensitive information, if you
(12:58):
can provide as many details asyou possibly can.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Sure.
So our main goal is to deter,detect and destroy.
So essentially that's one ofthe things that we try and do is
we try and locate drug dealersand we don't just go after the
street level drug dealer.
We go up the chain, weessentially go upstream.
We try and put the hurt wherewe could put the hurt I could
(13:22):
share with you even this week.
We don't just go after the drugdealers, but we'll get them,
we'll arrest them.
We'll arrest anybody that'sconnected to them, anybody that
is involved in that drugtrafficking organization.
If we can prove that they wereinvolved in that, we will arrest
them.
And when they get hit onfederal charges, they go away
(13:44):
for a little while.
The other thing that we do iswe don't just stop there.
In fact, even this week I wasinvolved in a seizure that was
well over probably somewherearound $150,000 in cash.
So when we start taking theirmoney, it makes a big difference
.
We kind of hurt them.
So you know, I know I can speakfor myself and the people in my
(14:08):
unit Each and every day we goout trying to find and arrest
somebody.
Sometimes we get a quick andeasy hit where we take somebody
down, and then there's othertypes of investigations that are
long term, investigations thatare a little more complex, when
we know somebody is deep-rootedin a community and dealing drugs
in those communities and Icould share this with you is
(14:33):
that there are cells all overthe United States and they
continue to do this.
Some will operate a year, somewill operate five years or ten
years, and the reason thatthey're allowed to continue is
some of them they're sneaky, butthey continue to do this
because it's so profitable.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
It is.
It's a multi-billion dollarindustry, as you know.
What are you seeing in ourcountry now?
In your opinion, is this theworst you have ever seen
infiltrating our country withthis fentanyl.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
You know, I probably first started and I can't
remember when I first startedseeing fentanyl.
It's been quite a few years now, but it just seems over the
last four or five years it hasjust progressed and progressed,
and progressed.
And, as you know, just in thelast year, unfortunately we lost
93,000 US citizens andunfortunately my son was one of
(15:24):
those ninety three thousand and,as you well know, your son and
it's like no family is.
Everybody, everybody's, at riskwith what's happening and I've
never seen it so bad.
This is the worst I've everseen.
What we're dealing with on adaily basis.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
It most certainly appears that way.
Yes, sir, it's so tragic.
You know a lot of Americansdon't understand about the
fentanyl crisis.
Probably do because there's notany public health awareness
campaigns going on nationwide,or perhaps a lot of our
government and politicians arenot talking about it.
(16:06):
Our schools really aren'teducating about it.
So can you explain thisquestion to me, Because I get
asked this a lot and I'm sureyou do too.
Why would a drug dealer killtheir clients?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Well, one of the reasons drug dealers don't
intend to kill their clients.
Unfortunately, that's what'shappening.
Once again, the proof is in thepudding Ninety three thousand
people died last year.
But the reason that the drugdealers, once again, they're not
trying to kill their clients,they're trying to profit off the
death of US citizens, and oneof the reasons that is so
(16:42):
profitable Can you imagine?
It's not just 93,000 peoplethat died.
93,000 people weren't the onlyones that are taking fentanyl.
There are hundreds and if notmillions of people across the
United States using drugs everyday, and so, while 93,000 died,
the number of people that livedthat didn't die they're
(17:02):
profiting off the death of ourkids, off our young adults and
citizens, and once again, it'sso profitable and that's why
they continue to do it.
The other thing is that they'reprofiting off of the death of
citizens, and the reason thatit's so profitable is that I can
speak for my son, and onceagain, I'm sure your son as well
(17:24):
is that kids, they have abulletproof mentality, they have
a fearlessness and they thinkoh, my friend Joe, you know he
passed away from fentanyl andyou know I use fentanyl and it's
not going to affect me.
Well, that's not the case, theycontinue to use it and
eventually, that's the danger ofthe pills on the street is that
(17:45):
they're different level ofbatches.
I just recently talked to a drugdealer the other day that was
actually a user of fentanyl thatI had arrested and I asked him.
He had told me he took two pillsthat morning and I asked him.
I said well, aren't you afraidthat if you take two pills, you
know, and I could speak for myson, I think it was one and I
(18:05):
said how did you know?
And I could speak for my son, Ithink it was one.
And I said aren't you, how didyou know to take one pill or two
pill?
And he essentially told me oh,I take one pill and after I pass
out, if I wake up an hour and ahalf and it you know, if it
hadn't knocked me out, you knowfor more than that then I know
it's a bat or a weak batch ofpills and I could take another
pill.
Unfortunately, I'm sure you allhave heard the story with Dr
Laura Berman.
She and this is another dangershe her son, I believe got it
(18:29):
off of a Snapchat and theychecked on him.
I think it was an hour, halfhour and when they went to check
on him gone and you know it'severybody's at risk with this
dangerous fentanyl that's on ourstreets.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Everyone is at risk.
It seems like there's differentcategories to this.
They're the seasoned users Icall them the seasoned users who
have an addiction to opioidsand they are using fentanyl.
And they know they're usingfentanyl and somehow, by the
grace of God, they are alive,but still using fentanyl.
(19:05):
I also did an interview with ayoung lady who told me all the
facts about the fentanyl high.
It was the best high.
It surpasses heroin andanything else, and that was her
description.
And I asked her the samequestion knowing that people are
dying in record numbers in thiscountry and you still are using
(19:28):
fentanyl, why?
And she couldn't give me alogical answer she goes I don't
know why.
I don't know why, lisa.
All I know is it's highly,highly addictive.
Who thinks you're buyingcocaine or even heroin, or
Oxycontin or Percocet orwhatever, or pot, and then it is
(19:54):
laced or cut into all thesedrugs fentanyl is, and they are
being poisoned because they arebuying something that they are
not aware of.
It's like if arsenic was put insomething like our drink or
food at a restaurant.
We'd be poisoned.
That's what they're doing.
They're being deceived,thinking they're buying another
(20:15):
drug and say, for instance, thatthey thought they were buying
cocaine and it was pure fentanyl.
That's death by deception.
That's murder.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Then you've got what you explained Dr Laura Berman's
son, 16 years old, I believe hisname was Sammy.
This is happening across ourcountry too.
You've got the middle schoolage, the high school age, going
(20:48):
on Snapchat, social media, beinggroomed, either you know,
either by dealers, and also thatyou know Snapchat is encrypted
information.
The message goes away.
However, they're being sold potor Adderall or Xanax or
Percocet or Oxycontin, thinkingit's that, and they're being
told that, and then all of asudden, they're found dead, just
(21:08):
like what you described,because it's all straight
fentanyl.
While we're on the subject, canyou describe how, the many ways
fentanyl is ingested?
A lot of people have themisconception that you know
you're.
Someone is shooting up with aneedle in their arm.
That's what's depicted in ourentertainment, in our movies.
(21:32):
Can you share with us the factsabout the many ways fentanyl is
ingested?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Sure, the ways that I've seen fentanyl ingested,
most commonly people actuallywill ingest it.
But another common way isthey'll actually break it up and
they'll actually smoke it.
I know I could speak for my son.
We actually didn't find thisout till later, but it was
actually some tinfoil.
You'll see some black in thetinfoil and they'll have a tube
(22:00):
and and they'll actually smokeit and one of the reasons I
believe they they like that'sone of their preferred methods
because it hits them a littlequicker.
It gets into their systemversus ingesting it, so it's a
little quicker.
I've also seen where users willbreak up the pill and they'll
snort it like you would cocaineand I've heard of people you
(22:24):
know mixing it and ingesting itwith a needle.
But Fentanyl is it's so easy tosmoke or ingest or snort that
it's not very common to seesomebody ingest or air inject it
with a needle.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Thank you for clarifying that.
Also, you touched upon thevapes, the cartridges and vapes.
Please share with us aboutyoures.
Please share with us yourknowledge about the cartridges
and the vapes and the THC levels.
And what do all of these drugsdo to the brain chemistry?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
So once again, unfortunately, firsthand.
Our family experienced that andnever in a million years did I
think that our son would haveprogressed where he did.
But vapes is right now on thestreet.
It's legal to buy.
You could go down to your localgas station or even your
grocery store and buy vapecartridges and the vape pens,
(23:22):
even the legal stuff where youactually have the, you know
which is the cigarette, thenicotine.
It's so potent it's essentiallyalmost, you know, in a day
you're almost smoking like apack of cigarettes.
As far as the vape cartridgeswith THC, years ago when we used
to get people with marijuana,just marijuana on the street,
(23:45):
the percentage of marijuana injust a regular marijuana joint
would probably be somewherebetween 3% to 6%.
The THC vape cartridges thatwe're seeing now they're
anywhere between 80% to 90% andI believe that was one of the
things that affected my son, youknow, and we should have seen
the signs, you know.
But we chalked it up to ateenager and a moody teenager.
(24:07):
But I believe and I know ourson was affected by the high
level, the high doses of THC.
It affects the compound of thebrain, theirpe cartridges, it's
affecting their brain compoundand I can actually speak to that
(24:30):
that people talk about.
Oh, marijuana is not a gatewaydrug.
It may not be for everybody,but unfortunately it was for my
son and when he progressed frommarijuana to THC, to, you know,
fentanyl, I think that changechange in his compound.
He had that drive to try andfill that, uh, that void.
(24:51):
And uh, you know my son, he wasactually bit and I think,
unfortunately, uh, kind of likegetting bit by a snake is, once
they're bit, it has a hold onhim and they can't escape it.
It just uh, it never lets goand, and unfortunately, 93,000
people were similar to my sonand unfortunately lost their
life.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
When you just said that about the snake and being
bit, I had this visual, thishuge, big old rattlesnake
somewhere and, like you said, itis poison.
It's very poisonous, Rick.
Let's now talk about go back toyour law enforcement mode.
When a policeman is doing aninvestigation, can you please
(25:40):
explain to our audience whatprobable cause is, what they
mean when to build a good case,and then also what happens if
they don't build a good case?
And I know this is a loadedquestion and probably a lengthy
one, but I would like to educateour audience about this.
So there's no misconceptions,and the blame game has got to
(26:02):
stop in this country.
The stigma towards everybody tome, that's my opinion.
But can you explain the legalprocess in our judicial system?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Sure, well, first I can explain public cause and I
can put it in a very simple way.
And for crimes, there areelements to each crime.
So, for example, if I'mcharging somebody with
possession of illegal narcoticswith intent to distribute, that
(26:33):
crime itself it has elements andthose elements, I would say,
are like pieces of a puzzle.
I have to prove each piece ofthat puzzle in order to get to
charge somebody and to ourultimate goal is to get a
conviction.
So we have to prove beyond areasonable doubt that, more
likely than not, that thatperson did possess drugs with
intent to distribute.
So we have to show that.
So that's what we do on a dailybasis.
(26:53):
We go after people, we do aninvestigation and, like I said,
sometimes it's a short-terminvestigation that we catch
somebody with their hand in thecookie jar.
They possess enough drugs to becharged and they go down.
They possess enough drugs to becharged and they go down.
There's other people thatthey're longer term
investigations, that they'rehigher level drug dealers,
(27:14):
they're a little smarter, theyhave other people that work for
them.
It takes us a while to work thechain and get to what we call
the big fish, but I could speakfor my agency and other agencies
across the country is that wetry and work together and get as
much as we can.
But unfortunately, even myselfand other agencies that are
(27:34):
going out there and fightingthis fight as we can, because I
know and I could speak formyself and my unit that when any
little bit of drugs that we getoff the street we're saving
somebody, we're making a smalldifference and that's why we do
(27:57):
what we do.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Thank you.
What types of evidence arenecessary and permissible in
court?
Speaker 2 (28:08):
What types of evidence are necessary and
permissible in court.
Well, we have to show, forexample.
Obviously I can speak, forexample, like fentanyl.
We would never bring fentanylinto a courtroom, it would be
too dangerous.
So what we do is when we seizethe drugs, we get the drugs, we
take photographs, sometimeswe'll video, we'll talk to the
(28:41):
people suspected of doing whatthey're doing.
We send the drug off to the lab.
The lab will test the drug.
So we use all that evidence andall that evidence helps us.
We have to go through a trialand you know it'll either be a
judge or jury trial.
Most common it's at 12 jurorsthat oversee Both sides get to
have the opportunity to presenttheir case and that's when we,
if we present a good case, weget a guilty conviction.
If we do a sloppy job, we losethe case.
(29:03):
But ultimately that's our goalis to get a guilty conviction.
But a lot of times when we havea good, solid case and there's
no, I would say, break in thechain, the case is so solid that
a lot of times they'll take aplea deal because if they go to
trial they'll face more time ifthey lose in trial versus taking
(29:27):
a plea deal from the court orthe attorney's office.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
A plea bargain, right ?
Yes, okay, you know a lot ofour all of us, all of us
grieving parents have lost oursons and daughters and of course
we want immediate action whenthis happens, daughters, and of
course we want immediate actionwhen this happens.
And a lot of us are told well,we have to get probable cause
and we have to build a good case.
(29:53):
And our question is well, soyou're allowing, you know who
the drug dealers are and you'restill allowing them to be on the
streets killing other people.
Well, that's our immediateemotional response and everyone
can understand that.
But then can you explain to usacross the country how it goes a
(30:17):
step further?
Most communities have a drugtask force or narcotics division
and they are going after thedealers, the dealers in our
communities and the cartel thatare sweeping our nation in all
communities.
Can you explain to us a littlebit about that, what I am trying
(30:41):
to convey?
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Well, one of the things that I could share with
you is that earlier, when yousaid people want immediate
action, unfortunately with thesetype of drug investigations,
that I could drive 20, 30 milesfrom where I currently live and
I could find a drug dealer and Imay know or believe that he's a
drug dealer or she, but I can'tjust knock on the door and say,
(31:05):
hey, drug dealer, I'm takingyou to jail.
Like I stated earlier, we haveto't just knock on the door and
say, hey, drug dealer, I'mtaking you to jail.
Like I stated earlier, we haveto prove those pieces of the
puzzle.
So that's where we come in,myself and other people that I
work with.
We do an investigation andthroughout the course of our
investigation and other tacticsthat we use, we build those
pieces of puzzle.
We put a nice puzzle togetherand when we present that to the
(31:28):
United States Attorney's Office,then now, and only then, can we
actually charge somebody.
So, unfortunately, some ofthose bigger ones, they take
longer terms.
I've had cases that you knowonce again.
I catch somebody, you know in aweek and you know, like when I
said their hands in the cookiejar, essentially they're in
possession of drugs.
(31:48):
I could arrest them, chargethem and show that they possess
drugs with intent to distribute.
Other cases that I've worked,some have taken months and I've
had cases that have lasted ayear or more that were longer
term investigations.
That investigations that youknow and sometimes we do that
(32:13):
for a reason is that we may knowthere's somebody bigger up the
chain and if we take somebodydown at a lower level we're not
stopping the problem.
We may be taking somebody down,but we know somebody at a
higher level is the one that ismanufacturing that fentanyl.
And you know I could speak evenjust this year we took down a
big ring that had a pill pressand was actually making pills.
(32:35):
So had we picked off the lowerlevel person, we wouldn't have
gotten that pill press and thetens of thousands of pills that
not only did we seize, but thatwas out there on the street and
we were Thank you for explainingthat process.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Some people may not understand it, but I think it's
very important to understandthat it is a process in this
country and there are laws andrules that people have to abide
to, so it's not thrown out ofour courtrooms.
So thank you for your hard work.
Can you explain to us thedifferent types of indictments?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Can you explain to us the different types of
indictments?
Sure, well, there's differenttypes of ways to charge somebody
.
The United States Attorney'sOffice they could file what we
call information, where wepresent the case to the United
States Attorney's Office.
They see, they look at thedifferent charges and they look
at those charges.
They will decide oh yeah, we'regoing to charge this person
(33:39):
with failing in possession of agun.
They're going to charge themfor distributing, manufacturing,
producing narcotics.
So they'll get charged byinformation.
Another way is sometimes when Icome across somebody that is a
drug dealer in my unit, when weactually see somebody, we'll
actually charge them by acriminal complaint.
So we actually fill out thepaperwork, I do a criminal
complaint and an affidavit, wefile that in the court, arrest
(34:00):
the offenders, put them in jailand then they start the court
process.
That way, the last way thatsomebody can be charged on the
federal level is through a grandjury indictment and it's kind
of similar.
We present the case to theAssistant United States
Attorney's Office.
They look at all the evidence,they have a grand juror and a
(34:22):
grand juror is kind of like ajury, but it's closed, it's
sealed, it's confidential.
But the case is presented andif we get a true bill during the
grand jury, they will issue theappropriate charges and or
arrest warrant if applicable.
And then that's when we are theUnited States Attorney's
Marshals goes and we hunt downthe offenders that are charged
(34:42):
with their alleged crimes.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Thank you.
While we're on the subject,you've got your local law
enforcement, Then you've got theVice and Nar narcotics division
in most cities and towns.
Then you've got the DEA.
What role does each of thoseplay in trying to combat this
(35:08):
issue?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Well, one of the things I could say is that the
unit that I'm currently with andonce again I'm a federal
officer, I work in a narcoticsdivision Can't disclose who I
work for, but one of the reasonsthat our unit is so successful
and we're one of the mostsuccessful in our agency across
the country, and one of thereasons that we're so successful
(35:29):
and I hope other officers, ifanybody watches it is that the
key to being successful isestablishing partnerships, and I
work with the state and locals.
I work with other federalagencies when they want to work
with us, and it's by workingtogether that I believe that we
could truly make a difference,and so by working with the state
(35:52):
and locals.
For example, when the state andlocal have something, normally
the state would charge them atthe state level, but when they
have something, that is possiblya good federal case.
What I mean by that is theypossess federal-level dope and I
won't go down and break downthe amounts of different dopes
because it's different fordifferent types of drugs.
But when you have a big drugdealer, that should be charged
(36:15):
on the federal side, not thestate side.
We have a little more teeth.
We could put a little more hurton those drug dealers than they
could had they been charged onthe state side.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Thank you.
Okay, rick, I'm going to askyou some questions.
What motivates you?
What do you hope happens If welived in a perfect world?
What do you think needs tohappen to further combat this
fentanyl crisis?
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Well, what motivates me is I've always, you know,
once again, I'm proud to haveserved my country, I'm proud to
have served my state and I'mproud of the job that I'm doing
as a federal officer in theNarcotics Division.
What motivates me is I've doingas a federal officer in the
narcotics division.
What motivates me is I'vealways had a strong sense of
right and wrong.
Once again, unfortunately, Iwish I wasn't here today.
(37:05):
I wish I wasn't the father of ason who lost his life to
fentanyl.
I even talked to my son aboutthat and never did.
I think I would lose my own sonafter I taught him about the
dangers.
You know, we're a strongChristian family and once again
it hit us.
It could hit anybody.
But what motivates me is I tryand get as much drugs off the
(37:28):
street.
I know that every week, everyday, when I make an arrest in my
unit once again, I'm not takingcredit for the whole my unit
but I know by working with thepeople that I work with and we
get drugs off the street, we'resaving somebody, we're saving
somebody's life, and so that'swhat motivates me.
In a perfect world,unfortunately, I hate to say, I
(37:51):
don't see that happening anytimesoon.
The fentanyl crisis that ishappening across our country.
It is at a terrible level, youknow, losing 93,000 lives.
I hate to see what's going tohappen in another year because
the fentanyl that's on thestreet, it is so potent,
sometimes even one pill kill andunfortunately we see that
(38:12):
almost every day, every week,and you know I could speak with
the last two weeks of situationsthat I know where people of
pills that are on our streets inmy state that people are losing
their lives.
So I actually don't know how toanswer that question actually,
(38:33):
I know it's a very hard question, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Why do you think this is happening in our country,
killing records and numbers ofyoung adults down to our youth?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Well, unfortunately, I guess I could share this with
you is that you know China,mexico, the gangs, the cartel.
They figured it out.
It's profitable for them.
They make a lot of money andthey don't care if people are
dying.
They are feeding off thebullproof mentality of our
citizens, they're feeding offthat fearlessness and they're
(39:06):
profiting off of people dying.
And that's the sad part.
And as long as they'reprofiting, they're going to keep
doing it.
The other drugs you know, forexample, cocaine, heroin, heroin
, meth.
They cost higher.
Fentanyl is so cheap to produceand it's so profitable and
(39:28):
that's why they're doing it.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
I'm going to take this question a step further.
Why do you think there's nopublic health awareness
campaigns across our country?
Why do you think our governmentno public health awareness
campaigns across our country?
Why do you think our governmentis not talking about it?
Why does it appear that ourmainstream media is not talking
about it?
Can you answer that?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
You know it's crazy.
I saw something in our USCongress.
What was it?
The National TransportationSafety Bureau.
They're going to be doing astudy and it was something to
the effect that they're tryingto make a big push to put a
breathalyzer in new vehiclesdown the road.
So they're trying to pushsomething to the effect like
every car sold has to have that.
(40:12):
And you know, we all know DWI isa problem across our country,
but unfortunately ourpoliticians don't get it and I
don't know if they care Until ithits their family.
I don't know if they'll get itand they obviously, I don't
think are listening to what'sreally happening on the streets.
And so I think for us to gettheir attention, we need to call
our representatives and our USsenators, and it needs to start
(40:35):
from the top down.
And until that does, this isgoing to continue.
I can share that.
Unfortunately, I believe ourcurrent system is broken.
I can't speak again for all 50states across the US, but our
state system, our state courtsystem, is a joke.
Once again, my unit we tookdown a felon with fentanyl this
(40:58):
week.
This guy was in and out of jailand I could share with some of
the charges.
This guy got hit on statecharges.
He probably had 23.
His rap sheet was longer than Iam tall and out of all the
charges that he had, they woulddismiss him and let him go.
Dismiss him, let him go.
I think he had maybe four orfive convictions.
Maybe did you know four or fiveyears in jail where he probably
(41:19):
should have been in jail therest of his life.
It's terrible.
And until our state courtsystems fixed, until they start
holding people accountable youknow the state, they have laws
on the books.
If the judges would hold peopleaccountable, the judges would
hold people accountable.
But, as we all seen inCalifornia, california is a joke
.
I mean the state system iscompletely broken.
(41:42):
Look at the crime that'shappening.
You can even see it up inOregon, in Washington.
The state system is broken.
So the state system needs to befixed and the judges need to
start holding people accountablewhen they commit crimes and
fortunately for my agency on thefederal level, we are able to
(42:03):
do that and the judges areholding people accountable when
we present a good case.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
It's frightening, isn't it?
Oh?
Yeah, it's actually mindblowing.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Oh, it's scary and it breaks my heart.
It's what's happening and justthe crime and the death that's
happening.
That's preventable.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
It could.
It could easily be preventable.
It's actually a simple concept,you know, when you think about
it and it is it a good goodversus evil?
I mean, there's no doubt andand I don't know why our country
isn't addressing it like itshould.
(42:47):
I just you know that's probablya million dollar question and
probably a lot of variousanswers to that question, but
there are people in this country.
I still have faith.
There are people like yourselfand really good people who are
trying to combat this on a dailybasis and we are not going to
be silenced no one in thiscountry when you're going
(43:10):
towards something like this andtrying to save our young adults
trickling down to our children,possibly in elementary school.
For, for all we know, we've gotour work cut out for you.
For us, we do.
We aim to deal with the factualinformation on this podcast.
I think you touched upon this alittle bit, but do you see an
end to this?
What is the reality of thissituation right now?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
You know, unfortunately, I wish I wish I
could see into this, I wish Icould arrest the biggest
fentanyl dealer and it'd be allover.
But unfortunately, there's alot of people that are involved
in this, a lot of legal gangsand people that are selling this
.
I don't see an end to this.
I believe it's going to have toget worse before it gets better
(43:52):
, unfortunately, and I wish thatwas not the case.
Gets better, unfortunately, andI wish that was not the case.
But all I could say is you know, for myself, I'm going to
continue to fight the fight.
I'm going to continue to goafter the people that are trying
to poison and kill our kids.
The other thing I could say foryou know, people that are
watching is it hits people, allaspects, I mean.
I personally know of kids 13and adults all the way up into
(44:16):
their 50s and 60s that have diedas a result of fentanyl.
So there's no specific agerange.
It's not just teenagers thatare at risk, everybody's at risk
.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Thank you, rick.
As our audience can hear, thisbattle, with all the aspects of
fentanyl plaguing our society isnot an easy task.
This is a constant battle andwe are barely scratching the
surface.
Everyone in this country shouldbe enraged due to the lack of
(44:49):
public awareness and the lack ofaction and implementation for
our government towards savinglives and protecting all
citizens.
That is the main duty of ourelected officials.
In every profession there aregood and bad people.
Every profession is alsoaffected by this opioid
(45:10):
addiction and issue.
Gone are the days of drugexperimentation.
This is literally life or death.
Gone are the days with parentsthinking, oh, this won't happen
to my kid, not my child.
There are so many outsideinfluences bombarding people
with the Internet, social media,all the entertainment world,
(45:34):
misinformation of prescriptionand non-prescription drugs,
stigma, mixed messages from ourpoliticians, our mainstream
media, etc.
Etc.
Etc.
Wake up, america.
Thank God for people like Rick,who is one of the good guys
fighting this ongoing battle andis proud to serve his country
(45:58):
and lives through his example offighting the fight while
holding on to his hope, faithand love.
God bless you, sir.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Thank you Lisa.
The role of law enforcement in addressing
illegal drugs in general andopioids specifically has evolved
through time.
It seems that law enforcementagencies are working towards
three different goals.
Number one preventing opioidfatalities.
Number two provide longer-termassistance to opioid users to
(00:27):
help them into recovery.
Number three enforcing lawsagainst the illegal sales of
opioids.
By the very nature of theirwork, law enforcement are on the
front lines of the opioidcrisis.
My next guest is a United StatesNavy veteran, a retired state
(00:48):
police officer and now a federalofficer assigned to the
narcotics division, also, sadlyto say, a father who lost his
son to fentanyl.
Can you even imagine how youwould feel that you devoted your
whole career in trying tocombat these crimes and your own
(01:12):
son would lose his life to thevery same thing that you've been
fighting?
I can't imagine.
My next guest is Rick.
My next guest is Rick.
He has seen everythingimaginable in his career and is
enduring the most pain with theloss of his own son to this
(01:33):
fentanyl crisis in our country.
Welcome, rick.
First and foremost, my deepestheartfelt empathy for you and
your family.
Foremost, my deepest heartfeltempathy for you and your family.
Also, my gratitude andappreciation for your devoted
service to your country, aspainful as it is.
(01:54):
Please share with us your sonand how you tried so hard to
educate and save his life hardto educate and save his life, he
said.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
First of all I want to thank you for having me.
I have to be honest with you, Iwish I wasn't here talking to
you about the dangers offentanyl.
But unfortunately, not only.
You know myself, being in lawenforcement over 25 years, I
fight the fight every day,trying to get the drugs off the
street.
Never in a million years wouldI think our family would have
(02:27):
been hit by the tragedy offentanyl.
I tried to educate my son aboutthe dangers of drugs.
We thought we had him on theright path.
My son just graduated last year.
He was set to go to college andunfortunately last year we lost
our 19-year-old son.
(02:47):
You know, for me my son he wasalways.
You know people would say I wassmart and my son he just was
amazing.
And that's what kills ourfamily is the loss of life of
(03:11):
our son and the potential thathe had.
We first started realizing thatmy son was into drugs and never
did in a million years would wethink that he would even go
down the path of doing fentanyl.
Never did in a million yearswould we think that he would
even go down the path of doingfentanyl.
My son had first started withmarijuana and then later the
(03:35):
marijuana did progress to thevape cartridges and then later
to vape.
I believe he did some otherdrugs.
In July of last year in 2020,was the first time we realized
that my son was doing fentanyland, as you can imagine, as any
parent, we actually went tocheck on my son in the morning
and found him lying on the floor.
(03:55):
One of the things that I do inmy career is I get all types of
drugs off the street and, luckyfor me, that particular day I
had Narcan, which it's calledNarcan or Naloxone.
You know I rushed up and I wentfrom you know dad mode to cop
mode and, just like I did when Iwas a state police officer, I
(04:17):
provided you know first aid topeople.
Once again, never would I thinkI'd be doing first aid CPR on
my own son.
Virtually in July of last year,I was able to give my son a
couple shots of Narcan.
We called the ambulance.
My son went to the hospital fora couple days and, you know, at
(04:38):
that time we thought maybe itwas just.
You know, he got a bad batch ofpill or something.
He didn't know what he wastaking.
We had no idea of his addictionand how addictive fentanyl can
be.
We thought our son was my wifeand I.
We thought our son was doingwell.
You know he was still in schoolat that point.
(04:59):
No, he'd already finishedschool actually, but he was
working, was doing well.
We thought he was set to go tocollege and I believe it was in
August the second time.
A few months later we found ourson again on the floor.
Luckily, once again I had to gointo cop mode.
Give my son Narcan and you know, once again the hardest thing a
(05:21):
parent could ever see seeingyour kid lying there and wanting
to help them and realizingthere's only so much you could
do.
Same thing.
Ambulance came, they took himto the hospital, went to the
hospital for a few days, got outand that was the toughest thing
for us is my son at 19,.
We were trying to get him intosome type of program and
(05:42):
unfortunately for us I'm notsure how it is elsewhere across
the country, but there isn't alot of resources when somebody's
adult considered 19, andparents, even though our son was
living at home, we couldn'tforce him to go into some type
of program.
So we monitored our son Onceagain.
We thought he was on a goodpath.
(06:03):
And unfortunately, the thirdand last time we found our son
in the morning, it was inOctober.
And same thing, I gave my sonNarcan and it was too late.
And when I saw him I kind ofknew it was too late, but I
still tried and tried and trieduntil the ambulance got here and
I was not able to revive him.
(06:24):
And so that's my story, andunfortunately I hear stories
like that not just in my statebut all across the country.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yes, rick, I am so sorry about your son and you're
right, this is straight acrossthe board.
There's no boundaries, it's allover this country and it's
going to continue, as you wellknow.
You mentioned Narcan.
A lot of people in our audienceare aware of Narcan, but then a
(06:57):
lot of people are not aware ofNarcan.
Can you explain to our audiencewhat Narcan is?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
So Narcan, and if you're watching this, I want to
tell everybody that everybody isat risk.
If you have a young adult, ifyou have kids, even if you don't
I mean the fentanyl iseverywhere Everybody's at risk.
If you don't have Narcan, goget some.
There's places where you canget free Narcan.
(07:25):
There's places you can go toWalgreens and get Narcan,
sometimes free or relativelypretty cheap.
But Narcan helps reverse theeffects of overdose.
It doesn't cure the overdosebut it brings them back
essentially from that fatal dose.
It helps reduce that andbecause, like my son, the
(07:46):
fentanyl was so strong that thebody forgets to stop breathing.
So luckily, when I had my sonwith Narcan, the Narcan was
actually able to bring him backand help him breathe.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yes, sir, thank you for that explanation and, yes,
people need to contact theirstate about the availability of
Narcan or your county that youlive in.
Like Rick just stated, it isfree for a lot of people or it
is prescription, but the mainthing is to have Narcan in your
(08:23):
home.
Most law enforcement do carryNarcan to combat this, and also
EMS people, the emergencyresponders, first responders and
, of course, the ERs, but it isimportant nowadays, like he just
explained, due to this fentanylcrisis and you know all the
(08:44):
opioids and all the drugsfloating around, it's important
to have Narcan on board.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I want to share a story with you.
About two, three weeks ago Icame across a mother that had
suspected that her kid was usingdrugs.
And I did ask her if she hadNarcan at home and she said she
didn't and actually gave hersome and she suspected her son
was just using marijuana andother things.
And you know, same like my son,didn't know the extent of
(09:10):
possibly what he was doing andunfortunately I prayed to her.
I said here's Narcan, you know.
I explained how to use it and Iprayed that she would never
have to use it and unfortunatelythe day I gave it to her she
used it.
That night saved her kid and sofar her kid's on the right path
and I hope he continues downthat road.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Oh, my goodness, Thank you for sharing that story
.
And, as you stated, fentanyland these drugs can be in weed
and pot, marijuana, whatever youwant to call it all these
counterfeit pills.
So NORCAN can possibly work onsaving somebody's life and thank
you for introducing that mom toit.
If you will, please provide ouraudience your law enforcement
(09:55):
background that you are allowedto share with us at this time.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yes, I'm proud to share that I'm a United States
Navy veteran.
I proudly served four years forour country.
After I got out I went tocollege and then I was fortunate
to get picked up with the statepolice and I worked everything
from the front line.
I did patrol.
My day-to-day patrol was torespond to calls, not only be
(10:22):
proactive but reactive, and Ifought the fight for my state,
arrested criminals, tookcriminals off the street.
And then I was fortunate tocontinue to move up through the
ranks.
I finished in our trainingdivision and then ended up
finishing out with our specialoperations division where I did
a wide variety of things,everything from overseeing our
(10:45):
SWAT team to bomb team andpretty much all aspects of our
department and, you know, searchand rescue, other things like
that.
Currently I'm a federal officer.
I'm assigned to the NarcoticsDivision.
I'm not allowed to share who Iwork with, but I'm the narcotics
(11:06):
division that I work with.
It's my job now and my unitthat I work with.
Our job every day is to go outthere and locate and arrest
people who possess, distributeand manufacture illegal
narcotics and, unfortunately,and manufacture illegal
(11:27):
narcotics and, unfortunately,even back when I was a state
police officer, I got some drugsand I would get drug dealers
and drug users.
But now in my job as a federalofficer, the amount of drugs
that we see on a daily, weeklybasis.
It's unbelievable.
Even this week I got a felonwith a gun with fentanyl and
that was a career felon andthat's one.
I'll talk a little bit laterabout that.
(11:49):
But that's one of the problemstoday in our state and I believe
the 50 states across the UnitedStates is that the state court
system is broken and fortunatelyfor us now when we get somebody
on federal charges they get hitpretty hard.
I recently took down a felon.
It was a long-terminvestigation.
(12:11):
We got him with a wide varietyof drugs, everything from
cocaine to heroin, and also hewas a felon with a gun and, I'm
sad to say, we were able to geta conviction on him and he's
going to be going away for alittle while.
So on the state side weprobably get a slap on the wrist
and, you know, you know, a freegift card, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Thank you.
So you kind of touched upon mynext question, but I'm going to
ask it anyway, in case we leftout anything.
But I'm going to ask it anywayin case we left out anything.
I want you to explain to ouraudience your firsthand
experiences with the disruptionof the drug trafficking
operations that supply ourcommunities with fentanyl, as
you're loud, without divulgingsensitive information, if you
(12:58):
can provide as many details asyou possibly can.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Sure.
So our main goal is to deter,detect and destroy.
So essentially that's one ofthe things that we try and do is
we try and locate drug dealersand we don't just go after the
street level drug dealer.
We go up the chain, weessentially go upstream.
We try and put the hurt wherewe could put the hurt I could
(13:22):
share with you even this week.
We don't just go after the drugdealers, but we'll get them,
we'll arrest them.
We'll arrest anybody that'sconnected to them, anybody that
is involved in that drugtrafficking organization.
If we can prove that they wereinvolved in that, we will arrest
them.
And when they get hit onfederal charges, they go away
(13:44):
for a little while.
The other thing that we do iswe don't just stop there.
In fact, even this week I wasinvolved in a seizure that was
well over probably somewherearound $150,000 in cash.
So when we start taking theirmoney, it makes a big difference
.
We kind of hurt them.
So you know, I know I can speakfor myself and the people in my
(14:08):
unit Each and every day we goout trying to find and arrest
somebody.
Sometimes we get a quick andeasy hit where we take somebody
down, and then there's othertypes of investigations that are
long term, investigations thatare a little more complex, when
we know somebody is deep-rootedin a community and dealing drugs
in those communities and Icould share this with you is
(14:33):
that there are cells all overthe United States and they
continue to do this.
Some will operate a year, somewill operate five years or ten
years, and the reason thatthey're allowed to continue is
some of them they're sneaky, butthey continue to do this
because it's so profitable.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
It is.
It's a multi-billion dollarindustry, as you know.
What are you seeing in ourcountry now?
In your opinion, is this theworst you have ever seen
infiltrating our country withthis fentanyl.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
You know, I probably first started and I can't
remember when I first startedseeing fentanyl.
It's been quite a few years now, but it just seems over the
last four or five years it hasjust progressed and progressed,
and progressed.
And, as you know, just in thelast year, unfortunately we lost
93,000 US citizens andunfortunately my son was one of
(15:24):
those ninety three thousand and,as you well know, your son and
it's like no family is.
Everybody, everybody's, at riskwith what's happening and I've
never seen it so bad.
This is the worst I've everseen.
What we're dealing with on adaily basis.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
It most certainly appears that way.
Yes, sir, it's so tragic.
You know a lot of Americansdon't understand about the
fentanyl crisis.
Probably do because there's notany public health awareness
campaigns going on nationwide,or perhaps a lot of our
government and politicians arenot talking about it.
(16:06):
Our schools really aren'teducating about it.
So can you explain thisquestion to me, Because I get
asked this a lot and I'm sureyou do too.
Why would a drug dealer killtheir clients?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Well, one of the reasons drug dealers don't
intend to kill their clients.
Unfortunately, that's what'shappening.
Once again, the proof is in thepudding Ninety three thousand
people died last year.
But the reason that the drugdealers, once again, they're not
trying to kill their clients,they're trying to profit off the
death of US citizens, and oneof the reasons that is so
(16:42):
profitable Can you imagine?
It's not just 93,000 peoplethat died.
93,000 people weren't the onlyones that are taking fentanyl.
There are hundreds and if notmillions of people across the
United States using drugs everyday, and so, while 93,000 died,
the number of people that livedthat didn't die they're
(17:02):
profiting off the death of ourkids, off our young adults and
citizens, and once again, it'sso profitable and that's why
they continue to do it.
The other thing is that they'reprofiting off of the death of
citizens, and the reason thatit's so profitable is that I can
speak for my son, and onceagain, I'm sure your son as well
(17:24):
is that kids, they have abulletproof mentality, they have
a fearlessness and they thinkoh, my friend Joe, you know he
passed away from fentanyl andyou know I use fentanyl and it's
not going to affect me.
Well, that's not the case, theycontinue to use it and
eventually, that's the danger ofthe pills on the street is that
(17:45):
they're different level ofbatches.
I just recently talked to a drugdealer the other day that was
actually a user of fentanyl thatI had arrested and I asked him.
He had told me he took two pillsthat morning and I asked him.
I said well, aren't you afraidthat if you take two pills, you
know, and I could speak for myson, I think it was one and I
(18:05):
said how did you know?
And I could speak for my son, Ithink it was one.
And I said aren't you, how didyou know to take one pill or two
pill?
And he essentially told me oh,I take one pill and after I pass
out, if I wake up an hour and ahalf and it you know, if it
hadn't knocked me out, you knowfor more than that then I know
it's a bat or a weak batch ofpills and I could take another
pill.
Unfortunately, I'm sure you allhave heard the story with Dr
Laura Berman.
She and this is another dangershe her son, I believe got it
(18:29):
off of a Snapchat and theychecked on him.
I think it was an hour, halfhour and when they went to check
on him gone and you know it'severybody's at risk with this
dangerous fentanyl that's on ourstreets.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Everyone is at risk.
It seems like there's differentcategories to this.
They're the seasoned users Icall them the seasoned users who
have an addiction to opioidsand they are using fentanyl.
And they know they're usingfentanyl and somehow, by the
grace of God, they are alive,but still using fentanyl.
(19:05):
I also did an interview with ayoung lady who told me all the
facts about the fentanyl high.
It was the best high.
It surpasses heroin andanything else, and that was her
description.
And I asked her the samequestion knowing that people are
dying in record numbers in thiscountry and you still are using
(19:28):
fentanyl, why?
And she couldn't give me alogical answer she goes I don't
know why.
I don't know why, lisa.
All I know is it's highly,highly addictive.
Who thinks you're buyingcocaine or even heroin, or
Oxycontin or Percocet orwhatever, or pot, and then it is
(19:54):
laced or cut into all thesedrugs fentanyl is, and they are
being poisoned because they arebuying something that they are
not aware of.
It's like if arsenic was put insomething like our drink or
food at a restaurant.
We'd be poisoned.
That's what they're doing.
They're being deceived,thinking they're buying another
(20:15):
drug and say, for instance, thatthey thought they were buying
cocaine and it was pure fentanyl.
That's death by deception.
That's murder.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Then you've got what you explained Dr Laura Berman's
son, 16 years old, I believe hisname was Sammy.
This is happening across ourcountry too.
You've got the middle schoolage, the high school age, going
(20:48):
on Snapchat, social media, beinggroomed, either you know,
either by dealers, and also thatyou know Snapchat is encrypted
information.
The message goes away.
However, they're being sold potor Adderall or Xanax or
Percocet or Oxycontin, thinkingit's that, and they're being
told that, and then all of asudden, they're found dead, just
(21:08):
like what you described,because it's all straight
fentanyl.
While we're on the subject, canyou describe how, the many ways
fentanyl is ingested?
A lot of people have themisconception that you know
you're.
Someone is shooting up with aneedle in their arm.
That's what's depicted in ourentertainment, in our movies.
(21:32):
Can you share with us the factsabout the many ways fentanyl is
ingested?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Sure, the ways that I've seen fentanyl ingested,
most commonly people actuallywill ingest it.
But another common way isthey'll actually break it up and
they'll actually smoke it.
I know I could speak for my son.
We actually didn't find thisout till later, but it was
actually some tinfoil.
You'll see some black in thetinfoil and they'll have a tube
(22:00):
and and they'll actually smokeit and one of the reasons I
believe they they like that'sone of their preferred methods
because it hits them a littlequicker.
It gets into their systemversus ingesting it, so it's a
little quicker.
I've also seen where users willbreak up the pill and they'll
snort it like you would cocaineand I've heard of people you
(22:24):
know mixing it and ingesting itwith a needle.
But Fentanyl is it's so easy tosmoke or ingest or snort that
it's not very common to seesomebody ingest or air inject it
with a needle.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Thank you for clarifying that.
Also, you touched upon thevapes, the cartridges and vapes.
Please share with us aboutyoures.
Please share with us yourknowledge about the cartridges
and the vapes and the THC levels.
And what do all of these drugsdo to the brain chemistry?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
So once again, unfortunately, firsthand.
Our family experienced that andnever in a million years did I
think that our son would haveprogressed where he did.
But vapes is right now on thestreet.
It's legal to buy.
You could go down to your localgas station or even your
grocery store and buy vapecartridges and the vape pens,
(23:22):
even the legal stuff where youactually have the, you know
which is the cigarette, thenicotine.
It's so potent it's essentiallyalmost, you know, in a day
you're almost smoking like apack of cigarettes.
As far as the vape cartridgeswith THC, years ago when we used
to get people with marijuana,just marijuana on the street,
(23:45):
the percentage of marijuana injust a regular marijuana joint
would probably be somewherebetween 3% to 6%.
The THC vape cartridges thatwe're seeing now they're
anywhere between 80% to 90% andI believe that was one of the
things that affected my son, youknow, and we should have seen
the signs, you know.
But we chalked it up to ateenager and a moody teenager.
(24:07):
But I believe and I know ourson was affected by the high
level, the high doses of THC.
It affects the compound of thebrain, theirpe cartridges, it's
affecting their brain compoundand I can actually speak to that
(24:30):
that people talk about.
Oh, marijuana is not a gatewaydrug.
It may not be for everybody,but unfortunately it was for my
son and when he progressed frommarijuana to THC, to, you know,
fentanyl, I think that changechange in his compound.
He had that drive to try andfill that, uh, that void.
(24:51):
And uh, you know my son, he wasactually bit and I think,
unfortunately, uh, kind of likegetting bit by a snake is, once
they're bit, it has a hold onhim and they can't escape it.
It just uh, it never lets goand, and unfortunately, 93,000
people were similar to my sonand unfortunately lost their
life.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
When you just said that about the snake and being
bit, I had this visual, thishuge, big old rattlesnake
somewhere and, like you said, itis poison.
It's very poisonous, Rick.
Let's now talk about go back toyour law enforcement mode.
When a policeman is doing aninvestigation, can you please
(25:40):
explain to our audience whatprobable cause is, what they
mean when to build a good case,and then also what happens if
they don't build a good case?
And I know this is a loadedquestion and probably a lengthy
one, but I would like to educateour audience about this.
So there's no misconceptions,and the blame game has got to
(26:02):
stop in this country.
The stigma towards everybody tome, that's my opinion.
But can you explain the legalprocess in our judicial system?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Sure, well, first I can explain public cause and I
can put it in a very simple way.
And for crimes, there areelements to each crime.
So, for example, if I'mcharging somebody with
possession of illegal narcoticswith intent to distribute, that
(26:33):
crime itself it has elements andthose elements, I would say,
are like pieces of a puzzle.
I have to prove each piece ofthat puzzle in order to get to
charge somebody and to ourultimate goal is to get a
conviction.
So we have to prove beyond areasonable doubt that, more
likely than not, that thatperson did possess drugs with
intent to distribute.
So we have to show that.
So that's what we do on a dailybasis.
(26:53):
We go after people, we do aninvestigation and, like I said,
sometimes it's a short-terminvestigation that we catch
somebody with their hand in thecookie jar.
They possess enough drugs to becharged and they go down.
They possess enough drugs to becharged and they go down.
There's other people thatthey're longer term
investigations, that they'rehigher level drug dealers,
(27:14):
they're a little smarter, theyhave other people that work for
them.
It takes us a while to work thechain and get to what we call
the big fish, but I could speakfor my agency and other agencies
across the country is that wetry and work together and get as
much as we can.
But unfortunately, even myselfand other agencies that are
(27:34):
going out there and fightingthis fight as we can, because I
know and I could speak formyself and my unit that when any
little bit of drugs that we getoff the street we're saving
somebody, we're making a smalldifference and that's why we do
(27:57):
what we do.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Thank you.
What types of evidence arenecessary and permissible in
court?
Speaker 2 (28:08):
What types of evidence are necessary and
permissible in court.
Well, we have to show, forexample.
Obviously I can speak, forexample, like fentanyl.
We would never bring fentanylinto a courtroom, it would be
too dangerous.
So what we do is when we seizethe drugs, we get the drugs, we
take photographs, sometimeswe'll video, we'll talk to the
(28:41):
people suspected of doing whatthey're doing.
We send the drug off to the lab.
The lab will test the drug.
So we use all that evidence andall that evidence helps us.
We have to go through a trialand you know it'll either be a
judge or jury trial.
Most common it's at 12 jurorsthat oversee Both sides get to
have the opportunity to presenttheir case and that's when we,
if we present a good case, weget a guilty conviction.
If we do a sloppy job, we losethe case.
(29:03):
But ultimately that's our goalis to get a guilty conviction.
But a lot of times when we havea good, solid case and there's
no, I would say, break in thechain, the case is so solid that
a lot of times they'll take aplea deal because if they go to
trial they'll face more time ifthey lose in trial versus taking
(29:27):
a plea deal from the court orthe attorney's office.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
A plea bargain, right ?
Yes, okay, you know a lot ofour all of us, all of us
grieving parents have lost oursons and daughters and of course
we want immediate action whenthis happens, daughters, and of
course we want immediate actionwhen this happens.
And a lot of us are told well,we have to get probable cause
and we have to build a good case.
(29:53):
And our question is well, soyou're allowing, you know who
the drug dealers are and you'restill allowing them to be on the
streets killing other people.
Well, that's our immediateemotional response and everyone
can understand that.
But then can you explain to usacross the country how it goes a
(30:17):
step further?
Most communities have a drugtask force or narcotics division
and they are going after thedealers, the dealers in our
communities and the cartel thatare sweeping our nation in all
communities.
Can you explain to us a littlebit about that, what I am trying
(30:41):
to convey?
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Well, one of the things that I could share with
you is that earlier, when yousaid people want immediate
action, unfortunately with thesetype of drug investigations,
that I could drive 20, 30 milesfrom where I currently live and
I could find a drug dealer and Imay know or believe that he's a
drug dealer or she, but I can'tjust knock on the door and say,
(31:05):
hey, drug dealer, I'm takingyou to jail.
Like I stated earlier, we haveto't just knock on the door and
say, hey, drug dealer, I'mtaking you to jail.
Like I stated earlier, we haveto prove those pieces of the
puzzle.
So that's where we come in,myself and other people that I
work with.
We do an investigation andthroughout the course of our
investigation and other tacticsthat we use, we build those
pieces of puzzle.
We put a nice puzzle togetherand when we present that to the
(31:28):
United States Attorney's Office,then now, and only then, can we
actually charge somebody.
So, unfortunately, some ofthose bigger ones, they take
longer terms.
I've had cases that you knowonce again.
I catch somebody, you know in aweek and you know, like when I
said their hands in the cookiejar, essentially they're in
possession of drugs.
(31:48):
I could arrest them, chargethem and show that they possess
drugs with intent to distribute.
Other cases that I've worked,some have taken months and I've
had cases that have lasted ayear or more that were longer
term investigations.
That investigations that youknow and sometimes we do that
(32:13):
for a reason is that we may knowthere's somebody bigger up the
chain and if we take somebodydown at a lower level we're not
stopping the problem.
We may be taking somebody down,but we know somebody at a
higher level is the one that ismanufacturing that fentanyl.
And you know I could speak evenjust this year we took down a
big ring that had a pill pressand was actually making pills.
(32:35):
So had we picked off the lowerlevel person, we wouldn't have
gotten that pill press and thetens of thousands of pills that
not only did we seize, but thatwas out there on the street and
we were Thank you for explainingthat process.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Some people may not understand it, but I think it's
very important to understandthat it is a process in this
country and there are laws andrules that people have to abide
to, so it's not thrown out ofour courtrooms.
So thank you for your hard work.
Can you explain to us thedifferent types of indictments?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Can you explain to us the different types of
indictments?
Sure, well, there's differenttypes of ways to charge somebody
.
The United States Attorney'sOffice they could file what we
call information, where wepresent the case to the United
States Attorney's Office.
They see, they look at thedifferent charges and they look
at those charges.
They will decide oh yeah, we'regoing to charge this person
(33:39):
with failing in possession of agun.
They're going to charge themfor distributing, manufacturing,
producing narcotics.
So they'll get charged byinformation.
Another way is sometimes when Icome across somebody that is a
drug dealer in my unit, when weactually see somebody, we'll
actually charge them by acriminal complaint.
So we actually fill out thepaperwork, I do a criminal
complaint and an affidavit, wefile that in the court, arrest
(34:00):
the offenders, put them in jailand then they start the court
process.
That way, the last way thatsomebody can be charged on the
federal level is through a grandjury indictment and it's kind
of similar.
We present the case to theAssistant United States
Attorney's Office.
They look at all the evidence,they have a grand juror and a
(34:22):
grand juror is kind of like ajury, but it's closed, it's
sealed, it's confidential.
But the case is presented andif we get a true bill during the
grand jury, they will issue theappropriate charges and or
arrest warrant if applicable.
And then that's when we are theUnited States Attorney's
Marshals goes and we hunt downthe offenders that are charged
(34:42):
with their alleged crimes.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Thank you.
While we're on the subject,you've got your local law
enforcement, Then you've got theVice and Nar narcotics division
in most cities and towns.
Then you've got the DEA.
What role does each of thoseplay in trying to combat this
(35:08):
issue?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Well, one of the things I could say is that the
unit that I'm currently with andonce again I'm a federal
officer, I work in a narcoticsdivision Can't disclose who I
work for, but one of the reasonsthat our unit is so successful
and we're one of the mostsuccessful in our agency across
the country, and one of thereasons that we're so successful
(35:29):
and I hope other officers, ifanybody watches it is that the
key to being successful isestablishing partnerships, and I
work with the state and locals.
I work with other federalagencies when they want to work
with us, and it's by workingtogether that I believe that we
could truly make a difference,and so by working with the state
(35:52):
and locals.
For example, when the state andlocal have something, normally
the state would charge them atthe state level, but when they
have something, that is possiblya good federal case.
What I mean by that is theypossess federal-level dope and I
won't go down and break downthe amounts of different dopes
because it's different fordifferent types of drugs.
But when you have a big drugdealer, that should be charged
(36:15):
on the federal side, not thestate side.
We have a little more teeth.
We could put a little more hurton those drug dealers than they
could had they been charged onthe state side.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Thank you.
Okay, rick, I'm going to askyou some questions.
What motivates you?
What do you hope happens If welived in a perfect world?
What do you think needs tohappen to further combat this
fentanyl crisis?
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Well, what motivates me is I've always, you know,
once again, I'm proud to haveserved my country, I'm proud to
have served my state and I'mproud of the job that I'm doing
as a federal officer in theNarcotics Division.
What motivates me is I've doingas a federal officer in the
narcotics division.
What motivates me is I'vealways had a strong sense of
right and wrong.
Once again, unfortunately, Iwish I wasn't here today.
(37:05):
I wish I wasn't the father of ason who lost his life to
fentanyl.
I even talked to my son aboutthat and never did.
I think I would lose my own sonafter I taught him about the
dangers.
You know, we're a strongChristian family and once again
it hit us.
It could hit anybody.
But what motivates me is I tryand get as much drugs off the
(37:28):
street.
I know that every week, everyday, when I make an arrest in my
unit once again, I'm not takingcredit for the whole my unit
but I know by working with thepeople that I work with and we
get drugs off the street, we'resaving somebody, we're saving
somebody's life, and so that'swhat motivates me.
In a perfect world,unfortunately, I hate to say, I
(37:51):
don't see that happening anytimesoon.
The fentanyl crisis that ishappening across our country.
It is at a terrible level, youknow, losing 93,000 lives.
I hate to see what's going tohappen in another year because
the fentanyl that's on thestreet, it is so potent,
sometimes even one pill kill andunfortunately we see that
(38:12):
almost every day, every week,and you know I could speak with
the last two weeks of situationsthat I know where people of
pills that are on our streets inmy state that people are losing
their lives.
So I actually don't know how toanswer that question actually,
(38:33):
I know it's a very hard question, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Why do you think this is happening in our country,
killing records and numbers ofyoung adults down to our youth?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Well, unfortunately, I guess I could share this with
you is that you know China,mexico, the gangs, the cartel.
They figured it out.
It's profitable for them.
They make a lot of money andthey don't care if people are
dying.
They are feeding off thebullproof mentality of our
citizens, they're feeding offthat fearlessness and they're
(39:06):
profiting off of people dying.
And that's the sad part.
And as long as they'reprofiting, they're going to keep
doing it.
The other drugs you know, forexample, cocaine, heroin, heroin
, meth.
They cost higher.
Fentanyl is so cheap to produceand it's so profitable and
(39:28):
that's why they're doing it.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
I'm going to take this question a step further.
Why do you think there's nopublic health awareness
campaigns across our country?
Why do you think our governmentno public health awareness
campaigns across our country?
Why do you think our governmentis not talking about it?
Why does it appear that ourmainstream media is not talking
about it?
Can you answer that?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
You know it's crazy.
I saw something in our USCongress.
What was it?
The National TransportationSafety Bureau.
They're going to be doing astudy and it was something to
the effect that they're tryingto make a big push to put a
breathalyzer in new vehiclesdown the road.
So they're trying to pushsomething to the effect like
every car sold has to have that.
(40:12):
And you know, we all know DWI isa problem across our country,
but unfortunately ourpoliticians don't get it and I
don't know if they care Until ithits their family.
I don't know if they'll get itand they obviously, I don't
think are listening to what'sreally happening on the streets.
And so I think for us to gettheir attention, we need to call
our representatives and our USsenators, and it needs to start
(40:35):
from the top down.
And until that does, this isgoing to continue.
I can share that.
Unfortunately, I believe ourcurrent system is broken.
I can't speak again for all 50states across the US, but our
state system, our state courtsystem, is a joke.
Once again, my unit we tookdown a felon with fentanyl this
(40:58):
week.
This guy was in and out of jailand I could share with some of
the charges.
This guy got hit on statecharges.
He probably had 23.
His rap sheet was longer than Iam tall and out of all the
charges that he had, they woulddismiss him and let him go.
Dismiss him, let him go.
I think he had maybe four orfive convictions.
Maybe did you know four or fiveyears in jail where he probably
(41:19):
should have been in jail therest of his life.
It's terrible.
And until our state courtsystems fixed, until they start
holding people accountable youknow the state, they have laws
on the books.
If the judges would hold peopleaccountable, the judges would
hold people accountable.
But, as we all seen inCalifornia, california is a joke
.
I mean the state system iscompletely broken.
(41:42):
Look at the crime that'shappening.
You can even see it up inOregon, in Washington.
The state system is broken.
So the state system needs to befixed and the judges need to
start holding people accountablewhen they commit crimes and
fortunately for my agency on thefederal level, we are able to
(42:03):
do that and the judges areholding people accountable when
we present a good case.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
It's frightening, isn't it?
Oh?
Yeah, it's actually mindblowing.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Oh, it's scary and it breaks my heart.
It's what's happening and justthe crime and the death that's
happening.
That's preventable.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
It could.
It could easily be preventable.
It's actually a simple concept,you know, when you think about
it and it is it a good goodversus evil?
I mean, there's no doubt andand I don't know why our country
isn't addressing it like itshould.
(42:47):
I just you know that's probablya million dollar question and
probably a lot of variousanswers to that question, but
there are people in this country.
I still have faith.
There are people like yourselfand really good people who are
trying to combat this on a dailybasis and we are not going to
be silenced no one in thiscountry when you're going
(43:10):
towards something like this andtrying to save our young adults
trickling down to our children,possibly in elementary school.
For, for all we know, we've gotour work cut out for you.
For us, we do.
We aim to deal with the factualinformation on this podcast.
I think you touched upon this alittle bit, but do you see an
end to this?
What is the reality of thissituation right now?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
You know, unfortunately, I wish I wish I
could see into this, I wish Icould arrest the biggest
fentanyl dealer and it'd be allover.
But unfortunately, there's alot of people that are involved
in this, a lot of legal gangsand people that are selling this
.
I don't see an end to this.
I believe it's going to have toget worse before it gets better
(43:52):
, unfortunately, and I wish thatwas not the case.
Gets better, unfortunately, andI wish that was not the case.
But all I could say is you know, for myself, I'm going to
continue to fight the fight.
I'm going to continue to goafter the people that are trying
to poison and kill our kids.
The other thing I could say foryou know, people that are
watching is it hits people, allaspects, I mean.
I personally know of kids 13and adults all the way up into
(44:16):
their 50s and 60s that have diedas a result of fentanyl.
So there's no specific agerange.
It's not just teenagers thatare at risk, everybody's at risk
.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Thank you, rick.
As our audience can hear, thisbattle, with all the aspects of
fentanyl plaguing our society isnot an easy task.
This is a constant battle andwe are barely scratching the
surface.
Everyone in this country shouldbe enraged due to the lack of
(44:49):
public awareness and the lack ofaction and implementation for
our government towards savinglives and protecting all
citizens.
That is the main duty of ourelected officials.
In every profession there aregood and bad people.
Every profession is alsoaffected by this opioid
(45:10):
addiction and issue.
Gone are the days of drugexperimentation.
This is literally life or death.
Gone are the days with parentsthinking, oh, this won't happen
to my kid, not my child.
There are so many outsideinfluences bombarding people
with the Internet, social media,all the entertainment world,
(45:34):
misinformation of prescriptionand non-prescription drugs,
stigma, mixed messages from ourpoliticians, our mainstream
media, etc.
Etc.
Etc.
Wake up, america.
Thank God for people like Rick,who is one of the good guys
fighting this ongoing battle andis proud to serve his country
(45:58):
and lives through his example offighting the fight while
holding on to his hope, faithand love.
God bless you, sir.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Thank you Lisa.
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