March 27, 2024 • 28 mins
Our father and son duo are back after a brief, unexpected hiatus. This week the hosts take a break from discussing Star Trek to review Dune 2. They compare the movie to the book and explore parallals between the stories and worlds of Dune and Star Wars.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ethan (00:18):
Hello, everybody.
And welcome back to anotherepisode of father and son's
guide to the galaxy.
I'm your host, Ethan, and
Anthony (00:26):
I'm your co host Anthony.
Ethan (00:28):
And today we are doing something a little bit out of
the ordinary.
We are going to be reviewing thenew Dune movie that just came
out.
Yes,
Anthony (00:38):
it was so, so good.
But first, before we do that, weshould take a moment and
recognize the success that we'vehad on this podcast by reaching
10 episodes.
This is episode number 10,double digits.
I'm pretty proud of that.
Ethan (00:56):
Yeah.
It kind of just goes to showthat if you stick with
something, you can make it go adecent way.
Like, you know.
It's fun.
Anthony (01:05):
Yeah.
Ethan (01:06):
So that's why we do it.
Anthony (01:07):
Yeah.
It's been a lot of fun.
So before you know it, we'll beat fifty and a hundred episodes.
This thing's gonna keep goingand going and going, I'm sure of
it.
Ethan (01:15):
Yep.
No matter how many listeners wehave, we're just gonna keep
making them.
Right.
All
Anthony (01:19):
ten of you.
Oh, listener for episode.
Right.
So, Dune 2, we saw it not thisweekend, but the weekend before
last, and it was awesome.
I really loved it.
What did you think of it?
Ethan (01:38):
Yeah, I really like the world that's been created.
I think it's a very interestingand, you know, I One thing I
like about the movie is theynever do things the easy way.
Yeah.
Getting the, the, how the Fremenget around, they jump on the
back of giant worms, they haveto drink their own recycled
(02:00):
water.
Anthony (02:01):
Right, they can't walk normally in the sand because
they don't want to
Ethan (02:05):
They don't want to attract the worms.
Attract the
Anthony (02:07):
worms when they don't want them there, yeah.
Yeah the world building in Duneis awesome, and that's because
of Frank Herbert who, who wrotethe book he just created this
amazing universe, this amazinggalaxy of worlds, and, and
Arrakis, which is where, whichis The name for, for Dune is
(02:28):
the, kind of where all theaction is and I just, I thought
they did an excellent job withthis movie.
I really enjoyed the first one,but I liked this one even
better, and I think, having readthe book, I think this is
probably the best adaptation ofa book, if you combine Dune 1
(02:51):
and Dune 2 and, and kind ofthink of them as a, as a single
movie.
I think that's probably the bestadaptation of a book on screen
that I've ever seen.
Denis Vanouf, who's thecharacter.
French Canadian director who,who directed part one and part
two.
He's just got a, a visionarymind and he's he's super
(03:13):
creative and he, he just did agreat job of taking that dense,
complex story that Frank Herbertwrote and putting it on screen
in, you know, telling that storyin, in, you know, Four hours or
whatever it was.
So I, I was just super impressedwith it and I can't wait to see
it again.
What did you like most aboutDune II?
Ethan (03:36):
I think One of the things I really liked a lot is the
opening of the movie.
Because, literally, if you wereto just stitch both the ending
and the beginning of that movieagain, It would feel like, you
wouldn't even notice it.
Yeah.
Cause the movie opens prettymuch right where it left in the
desert, and
Anthony (03:56):
Yeah.
I think it was a little bitlater, but, but you're right.
I mean, they pick up, because,cause Dune 1 ends where Paul
Atreides and his mom have joinedthe Fremen, and he's just killed
that guy I can't think of thecharacter's name, that, that he
had to kill.
do like a fight with the guy tobecome a member of the Freeman
(04:16):
or to be accepted into theirranks.
He wasn't a full fledged Fremenyet, but but yeah, I think
generally it was pretty soonafter the events of the first
one that Dune II started.
I'd say
Ethan (04:27):
probably a couple of days later.
Yeah,
Anthony (04:29):
yeah, probably so.
And so it was a, it was a prettyseamless transition and that,
that, yeah, they, they did agreat job with that.
I really liked, well, I thoughtthe acting was phenomenal and it
was really, really well cast.
And we, we get some newcharacters this time.
(04:50):
So we get Florence Pugh whoplays Princess Irulan.
And she's pretty good.
She doesn't have a lot ofscenes, but when she is there
she's, you know, she's got justsuch a great presence on screen.
Right.
And, and then Fade Rautha, who'sone of the main villains, if you
will.
And we'll talk about whethereverybody's a villain in this
(05:13):
story, because to some degreethey are.
But he, he's this, you know,murderous psychotic nephew of
the Baron Harkonnen, and he, theBaron kind of gives him the, the
responsibility to oversee thespice production and to destroy
the, the Freeman on Arrakis.
(05:33):
And that dude is just crazy.
And so he, he was played byAustin Butler, who remarkably
played Elvis in the Elvis moviethat came out a couple years
ago.
And he looks totally differentand I, I was watching some
interviews this week with him,and apparently he didn't
actually shave his head for therole.
What they did was they, theycreated a, a prosthetic, And it
(05:58):
covered up his eyebrows, causehe, you know, he didn't have
eyebrows in the movie either.
And then made it look like hewas just completely bald all the
way back.
The reason he didn't shave isbecause he had another movie
that he was about to go work on,and so they had asked him, can
you please not shave your head?
You know, cause we need you tohave hair in this movie.
So the, the costume and makeuppeople just did a, an amazing
(06:21):
job.
I mean, it looks real.
You feel like you're there.
It was just awesome.
Ethan (06:27):
Yeah, and there's probably also a little bit of
CGI to help with that makeup.
Anthony (06:32):
Yeah, probably a little bit.
Just to
Ethan (06:34):
touch up some spots, because, you know, like bald
caps, you can kind of see itsometimes.
Right,
Anthony (06:37):
right.
Yeah, I'm sure there was alittle bit, but they said it
took, I think you said it tooklike two hours.
Three hours or something to getit all on, but you know to be
ready to Shoot so it's
Ethan (06:48):
like some of the Star Trek makeup.
Anthony (06:50):
Yeah.
Yeah for sure Yeah, so loved itlove the themes in Dune I, I
love the, the political andreligious aspects of the story.
And I love how the hero of thestory.
(07:12):
Paul Atreides is, is really notthe hero, ends up not being the
hero that we expect him to be,right?
Right.
And he, like, the story, FrankHerbert kind of made him, like,
he took the hero's journey andsort of turned it on its head.
And so Paul does help the Fremendefeat the Harkonnens and defeat
(07:36):
the the Emperor.
But At the same time, when hegets this power and he becomes
this, like, religious symbolthis prophet he, he kind of
embraces that role and goes toofar with it.
And then they set, set up forthe next movie, Dune Messiah,
which is based on the secondbook, where the they, they take
(07:57):
over, they, they, they basicallywage a holy war and, and take
over the other houses throughoutthe galaxy.
Ethan (08:04):
Right.
One thing I thought wasinteresting about the whole
thing with Paul Atreides and himending up kind of, you know,
saving Arrakis, but for all thewrong reasons, is everything he
ended up doing in the end, henever wanted to do in the
beginning.
Yeah.
Cause he, he said, I, stufflike, I don't wanna be your,
(08:25):
Like religious figure.
I don't want to be your leader.
I just want to fight.
Anthony (08:30):
Yeah Yeah, that's true.
One thing that was kind ofdifferent in the movie is his
resistance to being the Lisan alGaib, which is the the
prophesied leader of the of theFremen and In the book, he, he,
he's not quite as resistant toit.
(08:52):
I liked how they did that in themovie though, because it created
this real conflict.
In the book, he, he starts torecognize early on that he is
supposed to be the Lisan alGaib, and he, but his motives
aren't bad in the beginning.
Whereas in the movie, like yousaid, he's, he doesn't want to
embrace that role.
(09:12):
He, he, he sees the danger init, but he ends up doing it
anyway.
And then that, you know, leadsto what, what will be this holy
war throughout the Imperium.
Ethan (09:23):
Right.
I think the biggest thing thatled to his downfall was the I
don't remember what they calledit, the, the, the drink that
they had.
It was kind of, it was thepoison thing from the worm.
Anthony (09:35):
Yeah, the
Ethan (09:36):
was it like the water of life?
Water
Anthony (09:38):
of life, something like that, yeah.
I can't remember.
Yeah,
Ethan (09:41):
and then it all starts when his mother takes it and
miraculously survives.
Yeah.
You know, because it was whatshe was trained to do to change
the form of the poison orwhatever.
Yeah.
And then you see this shift inher character, which is really
fascinating.
She kind of starts hearingvoices.
(10:01):
And she's like saying like Herdaughter is talking to her from
inside her stomach, which iskind of weird.
Anthony (10:08):
Yeah, and so that's another difference with the
book.
So in the book, she is pregnantwhen she drinks the water of
life and becomes the ReverendMother figure.
But the, the, The child isactually born in the book and is
this super gifted child.
So she's like a baby, but she'sable to like carry on
(10:29):
conversations and stuff.
I really liked the way that theyhandled that in the movie by
just keeping her in the womb,but making her communicate with
the Lady Jessica, the ReverendMother Because I, it, it made it
a little more believable, and Iwas, I was really curious how
they were going to try to pullthat off, because the the
(10:50):
character of Paul Atreidessister is, is an important, a
really important character inthe book, and she's, she's
important to the story.
And it just would have seemedso, I, I, I thought, are they
going to do like a CGI baby thattalks or something?
You know,
Ethan (11:09):
talking baby would have been kind of creepy.
Anthony (11:10):
Yeah, it would have looked and felt really weird.
And so I, I thought the way thatthey handled that was awesome.
And it made it a lot morebelievable made it a lot easier
to suspend your disbelief.
And then they showed Aaliyah,that's, that's her name, Aaliyah
Atreides as an older a womanwith, with a, a scene that was
(11:34):
like a, a scene from the futureor something.
But played by Anya Taylor Joy,who's also a great actress.
And I, I'm wondering if she'sgonna have a bigger role in the
third movie that they'reprobably gonna make.
Another interesting differencewas Chani, his character Shani,
Chani, I don't, I can't rememberif, if it's Chani, is it Chani
or Shani?
Ethan (11:54):
I don't remember.
Yeah, I can't remember
Anthony (11:55):
either.
But played by Zendaya, who isreally becoming a great actress.
She's she's really got a greatscreen presence.
But in the book, At the end,when Paul Atreides says he's
going to wed Princess Irulan,and they're going to rule the
Imperium together, Shani stayswith Paul.
(12:16):
And in the movie, they changedthat, and I thought it was a
pretty good change because it,it, it gives Shani a little more
autonomy, and so she leaves, andgoes and rides off on a sandworm
back to, you know, Fremen do.
Right.
Ethan (12:34):
Just casually get a ride.
Anthony (12:35):
Yeah, and so I think it sets up potentially sets up a
really good conflict in thethird movie between Shani and
Paul and maybe even theprincess.
And so I liked, I liked thatchange that they made for the
movie, even, even though it was,you know, a fairly significant
change from the book.
Yeah.
(12:57):
So, one of the things I noticed,you just can't help but notice
with Dune, is how much Star Warsis inspired by Dune.
And in some cases, outrightborrows material from Dune.
What was your take of that?
Like, what kind of things didyou notice as far as parallels
(13:20):
between Dune and Star Wars?
Ethan (13:22):
Let's see, a big thing.
Like, the whole governmentsystem they have is called the
Imperium, right?
Right.
And so, the Empire, theImperium.
Yeah.
You know, very similar names.
And then they've got a bunch ofIn Star Wars they have the Jedi
Knights with the force, and inDune they have the Bene Gesserit
(13:44):
and their weird mind powers.
Anthony (13:47):
Yeah, yeah, I think the Jedi had to have been inspired
by the Bene
Ethan (13:52):
Gesserit.
The Jedi mind tricks.
Right.
Anthony (13:55):
And, but what's interesting is, in Star Wars, of
course, the Jedi are the heroes,right?
Yes.
And in Dune, I think you canmake an argument that the Bene
Gesserit are actually the mostevil of all the characters,
because they, they have this,you behind the scenes plan to
(14:18):
create this what they call theKwisatz Haderach, which is their
super being.
And it ends up coming in theform of Paul Atreides like a
generation too early, but their,their goal is to manipulate all
the different players in thepolitical system so that this
(14:42):
Kwisatz Haderach can come forthand become the kind of the, the
god emperor, so to speak, and I,I think I think arguably they're
the worst of all the charactersas far as morality goes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there, you know, there wasthat scene in the first movie
(15:04):
and in the book too where theyhold the Gamjabar up to a point.
Paul Atreides neck and he has tostick his hand in the box and
feel all this pain and stuff.
And so they, they kind of setthat stage right from the
beginning that, because that wasat, towards the beginning of the
first movie and, and in thebeginning of the book that the,
Benny Jesseret are, are, They'reup to no good, you know, they're
(15:28):
very sly and cunning in the waythat they do it and they play
they play the part You know, toto look like they're allies with
the emperor allies with theharkonnens or whoever But they
have their own underlyingobjectives.
They're
Ethan (15:42):
really just playing everyone Yeah, they're the
puppeteers and everyone else istheir own puppets.
Anthony (15:47):
Yeah, so they're almost even though the Jedi were
probably inspired by them.
They're almost more like theSith, right?
And, and I don't think GeorgeLucas invented the Sith until
later on, you know, when he wasworking on the prequel trilogy.
And so may, he may have drawnfrom that again when creating
(16:07):
the, the Sith who are kind ofbehind the scenes and devious
and plotting and cunning to, youknow, that with this goal to
take over.
The empire or in Dune's case thethe Imperium,
Ethan (16:21):
right?
Anthony (16:23):
Tatooine on Star Wars, obviously, was based on Dune on
Arrakis.
Yeah, except they
Ethan (16:30):
got a lot more to drink over there.
Yeah,
Anthony (16:32):
yeah.
I mean, and that's not out ofthe ordinary for science
fiction, for you know, sciencefiction authors and creators to
borrow and be inspired byearlier works.
writers and creators, you know,so it's, this isn't, I don't
mean this as a criticism ofGeorge Lucas.
I love Star Wars.
You and I both have loved StarWars for a long time.
(16:55):
But it, but it is interesting tosee how much he, he seemingly
borrowed from Dune to create hisown mythological world with all
the, all the great, you know,stories and characters and stuff
that we've come to love over theyears.
Ethan (17:12):
Right.
Right.
So another connection I wantedto make was the character Gurney
Halleck.
He really gave me, like, thisHan Solo vibe of a character,
and you could kind of tellthat's who Han Solo was based
off, because in, in the secondmovie when we see him, everybody
thought he was dead, but itturns out he was, like, working
(17:33):
on this spice ship as, like, atrader, and He was, like, making
runs to different, deliveringspice, pretty much.
Yeah.
Like, like how Han Solo is asmuggler.
Right.
But I think a little bit more inthe law.
Anthony (17:47):
Yeah.
Well, yeah, and that, exactly,the, the whole smuggling of of
spice.
I mean, they, they had spice inStar Wars.
It, it, it was, it served adifferent purpose.
In, in Dune, spice is, like,this amazing commodity that can,
you know, make Ships be able todo interstellar travel and, and,
(18:08):
you know, cause, yeah, I mean,it has all all sorts of powers.
Yeah.
Spice's life.
Ethan (18:13):
Yeah.
And then he also, once they findhim and he decides to help him
out, he, yeah, he, he basicallyjust does a bunch of like cool
fighting stuff.
He shows them where the atomicbombs are.
And yeah, he was just like, Ohno, he's just this like, really
epic dude.
He got into a fight with the oneguy, can't remember his name,
(18:36):
and he pretty much just died.
Yeah.
With a sword right through thechest.
Anthony (18:40):
Yeah, he's pretty awesome.
I love his loyalty to theAtreides family, too.
I, I really love that, you know,how, he, he wasn't just loyal
because he was employed by themor their servant, but he like,
he really loves Paul, right?
And he really loved Paul'sbrother.
And so his loyalty is based onlove, not out of obligation,
(19:04):
which I thought is a, you know,made him a specifically unique
character you know, and, andmaybe the most moral of all the
characters.
I don't know.
Ethan (19:18):
Yeah, I don't know if moral would be a good way to
describe him because he he wasthe one that showed them where
the Atomic bomb I wouldn't saythat's the most moral thing.
Yeah,
Anthony (19:27):
maybe what I mean Maybe a better way to say it is
principle based, you know Yeah,he he knows what his purpose is
and he believes in it He'sconvicted and and he follows
through with yeah, I don't
Ethan (19:41):
I don't know if he's like under oath or anything Right.
But if he was, he, he sure isdedicated to following that.
Anthony (19:47):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
The Stormtroopers from Star Warsare, I think, based in part on
the Sardaukar, which in Dune,the Sardaukar, Sardauk, I think
I'm saying it right, Sardaukar.
That sounds right.
Yeah they're like this eliteForce right there the Emperor's
troopers
Ethan (20:08):
get the storm troopers can't even
Anthony (20:09):
yeah, but the storm troopers obviously Not elite
because they in
Ethan (20:14):
the first five minutes of the movie.
You see this one guy from like acliff snipe one of those Worms
summoning things.
Yeah.
Anthony (20:23):
Yeah,
Ethan (20:24):
like no hesitation just shoot And it's just gone.
Anthony (20:27):
Yeah.
Yeah, they're pretty they'repretty cool as far as Their
Ethan (20:31):
only problem is you gotta break the glass on their head
and they're pretty much gone.
Anthony (20:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I liked the Sardaukar.
And the Emperor What was yourtake on the Emperor's character?
I mean,
Ethan (20:45):
I guess Oh, I'm thinking of the guy who was basically
running Arrakis.
The Emperor?
He, he reminded me of Palpatinebefore he was emperor, like when
he was chancellor, just causeyou know, the, the democratic
government in Star Wars kind ofhad a hard time doing things
(21:08):
when it was the Republic and theemperor in this seemed just
really unable to.
Make a, make a choice.
He got, he, like, he, he justgets to Arrakis while the big
fight is happening, and then heis already forced to agree to,
to these terms that Paul putsdown.
Anthony (21:27):
Yeah, it's a pretty quick downfall for him.
Yeah.
And he doesn't have mysticalpowers, right, in, in the
Emperor in Dune.
He's, he's a politic, he haspolitical power, but that power
is come, you know, falling apartat the seams towards the end of
the movie, and then ultimatelyhe, he becomes irrelevant, you
(21:49):
know.
Yeah.
And ends up, you know, You know,it must have been humiliating,
that scene where he kisses PaulAtreides ring.
Do you remember that?
At the movie.
Yeah, so, I so yeah, so theEmperor definitely has some
differences between the youknow, as compared with the
Emperor from Star Wars.
I I was skeptical of the castingof the Emperor in Dune II
(22:15):
Christopher Walken, who, I loveChristopher Walken, he's, he's
great, he, in, in some movies,but I had a really hard time
seeing him as playing thisemperor figure, but it turns out
he did a really good job.
I, I, I really, I bought intohis character.
(22:35):
I thought his relationship withhis daughter, the princess
Irulan, was portrayed reallywell.
And so Christopher Walken reallyis a good actor.
I just, because of some of theother roles I've seen him in, I,
I was having a hard timeenvisioning how he would be in
this movie, but he, he did agreat job.
Ethan (22:51):
Yeah.
If there was a character that Iwould relate to Emperor
Palpatine, it was Oh, his nameis leaving me.
But, you know, he's just the guythat is basically in charge of
Arrakis throughout the wholemovie.
Yeah, the baron.
Yeah, and he's like alwayssitting in that hot tub.
Anthony (23:09):
Yeah, I mean, talk about a disgusting character,
right?
Yeah.
Like, they made him asdisgusting as they possibly
could.
Ethan (23:17):
And he's always having somebody else do his dirty work.
Anthony (23:20):
Yeah, yeah, he, he, he's He directs other people.
He doesn't go out and do it onhis own.
Ethan (23:26):
And he had that like right hand man character that
you could see as a Darth Vaderstyle character.
Anthony (23:31):
Right.
Right.
Right.
Ethan (23:33):
I keep saying like the characters is like a star Wars
style character, but no, thestar Wars characters are a dune.
Right.
It's just hard to wrap my mindaround.
Anthony (23:43):
Yeah.
Yeah, it is.
Well, cause I mean, you, yougrew up watching star Wars, not
dune.
Right.
Yeah.
And so, so it makes sense.
I, I did too.
In fact, I've never even seenthe 1984 Dune version in its
entirety.
I've seen like clips on YouTubeand stuff, but I've never seen
the whole thing.
I kind of want to go watch iteven though it's supposed to be
pretty terrible, just becauseit's like this cult classic and
(24:07):
I think it'd be fun to kind ofcompare the 1980s movie to the
the current movies that havecome out.
Yeah.
But, but yeah, I mean, it, it,it, it, it really is true that
you know, were it not for Dune,I don't think we would have had
Star Wars, at least not StarWars as we know it.
Ethan (24:26):
It'd probably be very different.
Anthony (24:29):
Yeah.
And Star Wars was inspired byother science fiction too.
I mean, it was certainlyinspired by Isaac Asimov's
foundation series.
And inspired by history,inspired by mythology, you know,
so it, it has a, George Lucaswas inspired by a lot of things
and used a lot of elements fromdifferent stories in creating
(24:50):
Star Wars, but I think probablythe one he drew most heavily
from had to have been Dune.
Ethan (24:57):
Yeah.
Anthony (24:59):
So, anyway I recommend if you haven't seen Dune 2 go
check it out.
If you haven't watched Dune 1,watch that first because they,
the two movies do go together,and I think you'll be a little
confused if you skip Dune 1.
So they're, they're great moviesThe, the plot is complex, you
know, and it's a, it's a littlebit of a slow burn, I think.
(25:22):
Yeah.
But I kind of like that aboutit.
I, I, I like slow burns ifthey're done well.
Mm hmm.
And, and in this case, Dune 2was, was done really well.
But, so, and you do, Both of themovies are fairly long.
I think they're both about twoand a half hours long.
Yeah, I think so.
Or something like that.
So, you know, you know, becareful.
(25:45):
ready to sit down and, you know,watch a long movie if you're
going to do it but yeah, it wasawesome and I can't wait for
them to make the Dune Messiahmovie.
I, I, I think it's going to bejust as good, if not better than
the, these first two, especiallysince the director is staying
involved with it and working onthe script and
Ethan (26:06):
Yeah.
I would also really recommendthis movie.
I personally haven't read thebook, but the movie is written
in a way to where you don't haveto read the book to understand
it.
As long as you've watched one,you can understand two.
Yeah,
Anthony (26:24):
yeah, for sure.
Yeah, you definitely don't haveto have read the book to enjoy
these movies.
You know, as always, if you readthe book, it probably does help
a little bit when you go towatch the movie.
If, if the movie's of a somewhatfaithful adaptation, but but
it's certainly not necessary inthis case to have read the book
(26:45):
before you see the movies.
Ethan (26:46):
Yeah, and also it is very visually appealing.
The graphics that they used lookstunning.
The CGI is great.
Anthony (26:53):
Yeah.
Yeah, aesthetically, it's justamazing.
They, they take this Barrendesert planet and just
Ethan (27:03):
they put so much life into it.
Yeah,
Anthony (27:05):
that's a great way to describe it.
Yeah, they put a lot of lifeinto it.
I like that.
And yeah, it's, it's just agreat, it's a great cinematic
experience.
We, we saw it on the IMAX whichwas a great way.
The, the other thing I noticedtoo, when we.
You know, the IMAX is known forits sound, too, and the sound in
this movie is really intense.
(27:26):
Yeah, its
Ethan (27:26):
sound design is great.
Sound design is usuallysomething relatively
underappreciated, but they did areally good job with, with the
sound.
Anthony (27:34):
They, they really did.
And I, I mean, I, I was sittingthere and I could feel like my
heart vibrating and stuff, youknow, in those deep sounds came
on you know, at different timesin the movie.
So yeah.
So the sound, the music, all ofit is great.
Yeah.
I give it an A
Ethan (27:54):
Yeah, I would agree.
A
Anthony (27:55):
Yeah, for sure.
All right.
Anything else on Dune before wewrap up?
Ethan (28:01):
No, I think I, we've pretty much said everything
there is to say about it.
So if you enjoyed today'sepisode You can leave us an
email, say anything that youwant us to do better, or if you
just want to say hi, whatever.
You can also follow our socialmedias, we'll leave them in the
episode description, but we'llsee you next one.
(28:25):
Yeah,
Anthony (28:25):
have a great week, everyone.
Hello, everybody.
And welcome back to anotherepisode of father and son's
guide to the galaxy.
I'm your host, Ethan, and
Anthony (00:26):
I'm your co host Anthony.
Ethan (00:28):
And today we are doing something a little bit out of
the ordinary.
We are going to be reviewing thenew Dune movie that just came
out.
Yes,
Anthony (00:38):
it was so, so good.
But first, before we do that, weshould take a moment and
recognize the success that we'vehad on this podcast by reaching
10 episodes.
This is episode number 10,double digits.
I'm pretty proud of that.
Ethan (00:56):
Yeah.
It kind of just goes to showthat if you stick with
something, you can make it go adecent way.
Like, you know.
It's fun.
Anthony (01:05):
Yeah.
Ethan (01:06):
So that's why we do it.
Anthony (01:07):
Yeah.
It's been a lot of fun.
So before you know it, we'll beat fifty and a hundred episodes.
This thing's gonna keep goingand going and going, I'm sure of
it.
Ethan (01:15):
Yep.
No matter how many listeners wehave, we're just gonna keep
making them.
Right.
All
Anthony (01:19):
ten of you.
Oh, listener for episode.
Right.
So, Dune 2, we saw it not thisweekend, but the weekend before
last, and it was awesome.
I really loved it.
What did you think of it?
Ethan (01:38):
Yeah, I really like the world that's been created.
I think it's a very interestingand, you know, I One thing I
like about the movie is theynever do things the easy way.
Yeah.
Getting the, the, how the Fremenget around, they jump on the
back of giant worms, they haveto drink their own recycled
(02:00):
water.
Anthony (02:01):
Right, they can't walk normally in the sand because
they don't want to
Ethan (02:05):
They don't want to attract the worms.
Attract the
Anthony (02:07):
worms when they don't want them there, yeah.
Yeah the world building in Duneis awesome, and that's because
of Frank Herbert who, who wrotethe book he just created this
amazing universe, this amazinggalaxy of worlds, and, and
Arrakis, which is where, whichis The name for, for Dune is
(02:28):
the, kind of where all theaction is and I just, I thought
they did an excellent job withthis movie.
I really enjoyed the first one,but I liked this one even
better, and I think, having readthe book, I think this is
probably the best adaptation ofa book, if you combine Dune 1
(02:51):
and Dune 2 and, and kind ofthink of them as a, as a single
movie.
I think that's probably the bestadaptation of a book on screen
that I've ever seen.
Denis Vanouf, who's thecharacter.
French Canadian director who,who directed part one and part
two.
He's just got a, a visionarymind and he's he's super
(03:13):
creative and he, he just did agreat job of taking that dense,
complex story that Frank Herbertwrote and putting it on screen
in, you know, telling that storyin, in, you know, Four hours or
whatever it was.
So I, I was just super impressedwith it and I can't wait to see
it again.
What did you like most aboutDune II?
Ethan (03:36):
I think One of the things I really liked a lot is the
opening of the movie.
Because, literally, if you wereto just stitch both the ending
and the beginning of that movieagain, It would feel like, you
wouldn't even notice it.
Yeah.
Cause the movie opens prettymuch right where it left in the
desert, and
Anthony (03:56):
Yeah.
I think it was a little bitlater, but, but you're right.
I mean, they pick up, because,cause Dune 1 ends where Paul
Atreides and his mom have joinedthe Fremen, and he's just killed
that guy I can't think of thecharacter's name, that, that he
had to kill.
do like a fight with the guy tobecome a member of the Freeman
(04:16):
or to be accepted into theirranks.
He wasn't a full fledged Fremenyet, but but yeah, I think
generally it was pretty soonafter the events of the first
one that Dune II started.
I'd say
Ethan (04:27):
probably a couple of days later.
Yeah,
Anthony (04:29):
yeah, probably so.
And so it was a, it was a prettyseamless transition and that,
that, yeah, they, they did agreat job with that.
I really liked, well, I thoughtthe acting was phenomenal and it
was really, really well cast.
And we, we get some newcharacters this time.
(04:50):
So we get Florence Pugh whoplays Princess Irulan.
And she's pretty good.
She doesn't have a lot ofscenes, but when she is there
she's, you know, she's got justsuch a great presence on screen.
Right.
And, and then Fade Rautha, who'sone of the main villains, if you
will.
And we'll talk about whethereverybody's a villain in this
(05:13):
story, because to some degreethey are.
But he, he's this, you know,murderous psychotic nephew of
the Baron Harkonnen, and he, theBaron kind of gives him the, the
responsibility to oversee thespice production and to destroy
the, the Freeman on Arrakis.
(05:33):
And that dude is just crazy.
And so he, he was played byAustin Butler, who remarkably
played Elvis in the Elvis moviethat came out a couple years
ago.
And he looks totally differentand I, I was watching some
interviews this week with him,and apparently he didn't
actually shave his head for therole.
What they did was they, theycreated a, a prosthetic, And it
(05:58):
covered up his eyebrows, causehe, you know, he didn't have
eyebrows in the movie either.
And then made it look like hewas just completely bald all the
way back.
The reason he didn't shave isbecause he had another movie
that he was about to go work on,and so they had asked him, can
you please not shave your head?
You know, cause we need you tohave hair in this movie.
So the, the costume and makeuppeople just did a, an amazing
(06:21):
job.
I mean, it looks real.
You feel like you're there.
It was just awesome.
Ethan (06:27):
Yeah, and there's probably also a little bit of
CGI to help with that makeup.
Anthony (06:32):
Yeah, probably a little bit.
Just to
Ethan (06:34):
touch up some spots, because, you know, like bald
caps, you can kind of see itsometimes.
Right,
Anthony (06:37):
right.
Yeah, I'm sure there was alittle bit, but they said it
took, I think you said it tooklike two hours.
Three hours or something to getit all on, but you know to be
ready to Shoot so it's
Ethan (06:48):
like some of the Star Trek makeup.
Anthony (06:50):
Yeah.
Yeah for sure Yeah, so loved itlove the themes in Dune I, I
love the, the political andreligious aspects of the story.
And I love how the hero of thestory.
(07:12):
Paul Atreides is, is really notthe hero, ends up not being the
hero that we expect him to be,right?
Right.
And he, like, the story, FrankHerbert kind of made him, like,
he took the hero's journey andsort of turned it on its head.
And so Paul does help the Fremendefeat the Harkonnens and defeat
(07:36):
the the Emperor.
But At the same time, when hegets this power and he becomes
this, like, religious symbolthis prophet he, he kind of
embraces that role and goes toofar with it.
And then they set, set up forthe next movie, Dune Messiah,
which is based on the secondbook, where the they, they take
(07:57):
over, they, they, they basicallywage a holy war and, and take
over the other houses throughoutthe galaxy.
Ethan (08:04):
Right.
One thing I thought wasinteresting about the whole
thing with Paul Atreides and himending up kind of, you know,
saving Arrakis, but for all thewrong reasons, is everything he
ended up doing in the end, henever wanted to do in the
beginning.
Yeah.
Cause he, he said, I, stufflike, I don't wanna be your,
(08:25):
Like religious figure.
I don't want to be your leader.
I just want to fight.
Anthony (08:30):
Yeah Yeah, that's true.
One thing that was kind ofdifferent in the movie is his
resistance to being the Lisan alGaib, which is the the
prophesied leader of the of theFremen and In the book, he, he,
he's not quite as resistant toit.
(08:52):
I liked how they did that in themovie though, because it created
this real conflict.
In the book, he, he starts torecognize early on that he is
supposed to be the Lisan alGaib, and he, but his motives
aren't bad in the beginning.
Whereas in the movie, like yousaid, he's, he doesn't want to
embrace that role.
(09:12):
He, he, he sees the danger init, but he ends up doing it
anyway.
And then that, you know, leadsto what, what will be this holy
war throughout the Imperium.
Ethan (09:23):
Right.
I think the biggest thing thatled to his downfall was the I
don't remember what they calledit, the, the, the drink that
they had.
It was kind of, it was thepoison thing from the worm.
Anthony (09:35):
Yeah, the
Ethan (09:36):
was it like the water of life?
Water
Anthony (09:38):
of life, something like that, yeah.
I can't remember.
Yeah,
Ethan (09:41):
and then it all starts when his mother takes it and
miraculously survives.
Yeah.
You know, because it was whatshe was trained to do to change
the form of the poison orwhatever.
Yeah.
And then you see this shift inher character, which is really
fascinating.
She kind of starts hearingvoices.
(10:01):
And she's like saying like Herdaughter is talking to her from
inside her stomach, which iskind of weird.
Anthony (10:08):
Yeah, and so that's another difference with the
book.
So in the book, she is pregnantwhen she drinks the water of
life and becomes the ReverendMother figure.
But the, the, The child isactually born in the book and is
this super gifted child.
So she's like a baby, but she'sable to like carry on
(10:29):
conversations and stuff.
I really liked the way that theyhandled that in the movie by
just keeping her in the womb,but making her communicate with
the Lady Jessica, the ReverendMother Because I, it, it made it
a little more believable, and Iwas, I was really curious how
they were going to try to pullthat off, because the the
(10:50):
character of Paul Atreidessister is, is an important, a
really important character inthe book, and she's, she's
important to the story.
And it just would have seemedso, I, I, I thought, are they
going to do like a CGI baby thattalks or something?
You know,
Ethan (11:09):
talking baby would have been kind of creepy.
Anthony (11:10):
Yeah, it would have looked and felt really weird.
And so I, I thought the way thatthey handled that was awesome.
And it made it a lot morebelievable made it a lot easier
to suspend your disbelief.
And then they showed Aaliyah,that's, that's her name, Aaliyah
Atreides as an older a womanwith, with a, a scene that was
(11:34):
like a, a scene from the futureor something.
But played by Anya Taylor Joy,who's also a great actress.
And I, I'm wondering if she'sgonna have a bigger role in the
third movie that they'reprobably gonna make.
Another interesting differencewas Chani, his character Shani,
Chani, I don't, I can't rememberif, if it's Chani, is it Chani
or Shani?
Ethan (11:54):
I don't remember.
Yeah, I can't remember
Anthony (11:55):
either.
But played by Zendaya, who isreally becoming a great actress.
She's she's really got a greatscreen presence.
But in the book, At the end,when Paul Atreides says he's
going to wed Princess Irulan,and they're going to rule the
Imperium together, Shani stayswith Paul.
(12:16):
And in the movie, they changedthat, and I thought it was a
pretty good change because it,it, it gives Shani a little more
autonomy, and so she leaves, andgoes and rides off on a sandworm
back to, you know, Fremen do.
Right.
Ethan (12:34):
Just casually get a ride.
Anthony (12:35):
Yeah, and so I think it sets up potentially sets up a
really good conflict in thethird movie between Shani and
Paul and maybe even theprincess.
And so I liked, I liked thatchange that they made for the
movie, even, even though it was,you know, a fairly significant
change from the book.
Yeah.
(12:57):
So, one of the things I noticed,you just can't help but notice
with Dune, is how much Star Warsis inspired by Dune.
And in some cases, outrightborrows material from Dune.
What was your take of that?
Like, what kind of things didyou notice as far as parallels
(13:20):
between Dune and Star Wars?
Ethan (13:22):
Let's see, a big thing.
Like, the whole governmentsystem they have is called the
Imperium, right?
Right.
And so, the Empire, theImperium.
Yeah.
You know, very similar names.
And then they've got a bunch ofIn Star Wars they have the Jedi
Knights with the force, and inDune they have the Bene Gesserit
(13:44):
and their weird mind powers.
Anthony (13:47):
Yeah, yeah, I think the Jedi had to have been inspired
by the Bene
Ethan (13:52):
Gesserit.
The Jedi mind tricks.
Right.
Anthony (13:55):
And, but what's interesting is, in Star Wars, of
course, the Jedi are the heroes,right?
Yes.
And in Dune, I think you canmake an argument that the Bene
Gesserit are actually the mostevil of all the characters,
because they, they have this,you behind the scenes plan to
(14:18):
create this what they call theKwisatz Haderach, which is their
super being.
And it ends up coming in theform of Paul Atreides like a
generation too early, but their,their goal is to manipulate all
the different players in thepolitical system so that this
(14:42):
Kwisatz Haderach can come forthand become the kind of the, the
god emperor, so to speak, and I,I think I think arguably they're
the worst of all the charactersas far as morality goes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there, you know, there wasthat scene in the first movie
(15:04):
and in the book too where theyhold the Gamjabar up to a point.
Paul Atreides neck and he has tostick his hand in the box and
feel all this pain and stuff.
And so they, they kind of setthat stage right from the
beginning that, because that wasat, towards the beginning of the
first movie and, and in thebeginning of the book that the,
Benny Jesseret are, are, They'reup to no good, you know, they're
(15:28):
very sly and cunning in the waythat they do it and they play
they play the part You know, toto look like they're allies with
the emperor allies with theharkonnens or whoever But they
have their own underlyingobjectives.
They're
Ethan (15:42):
really just playing everyone Yeah, they're the
puppeteers and everyone else istheir own puppets.
Anthony (15:47):
Yeah, so they're almost even though the Jedi were
probably inspired by them.
They're almost more like theSith, right?
And, and I don't think GeorgeLucas invented the Sith until
later on, you know, when he wasworking on the prequel trilogy.
And so may, he may have drawnfrom that again when creating
(16:07):
the, the Sith who are kind ofbehind the scenes and devious
and plotting and cunning to, youknow, that with this goal to
take over.
The empire or in Dune's case thethe Imperium,
Ethan (16:21):
right?
Anthony (16:23):
Tatooine on Star Wars, obviously, was based on Dune on
Arrakis.
Yeah, except they
Ethan (16:30):
got a lot more to drink over there.
Yeah,
Anthony (16:32):
yeah.
I mean, and that's not out ofthe ordinary for science
fiction, for you know, sciencefiction authors and creators to
borrow and be inspired byearlier works.
writers and creators, you know,so it's, this isn't, I don't
mean this as a criticism ofGeorge Lucas.
I love Star Wars.
You and I both have loved StarWars for a long time.
(16:55):
But it, but it is interesting tosee how much he, he seemingly
borrowed from Dune to create hisown mythological world with all
the, all the great, you know,stories and characters and stuff
that we've come to love over theyears.
Ethan (17:12):
Right.
Right.
So another connection I wantedto make was the character Gurney
Halleck.
He really gave me, like, thisHan Solo vibe of a character,
and you could kind of tellthat's who Han Solo was based
off, because in, in the secondmovie when we see him, everybody
thought he was dead, but itturns out he was, like, working
(17:33):
on this spice ship as, like, atrader, and He was, like, making
runs to different, deliveringspice, pretty much.
Yeah.
Like, like how Han Solo is asmuggler.
Right.
But I think a little bit more inthe law.
Anthony (17:47):
Yeah.
Well, yeah, and that, exactly,the, the whole smuggling of of
spice.
I mean, they, they had spice inStar Wars.
It, it, it was, it served adifferent purpose.
In, in Dune, spice is, like,this amazing commodity that can,
you know, make Ships be able todo interstellar travel and, and,
(18:08):
you know, cause, yeah, I mean,it has all all sorts of powers.
Yeah.
Spice's life.
Ethan (18:13):
Yeah.
And then he also, once they findhim and he decides to help him
out, he, yeah, he, he basicallyjust does a bunch of like cool
fighting stuff.
He shows them where the atomicbombs are.
And yeah, he was just like, Ohno, he's just this like, really
epic dude.
He got into a fight with the oneguy, can't remember his name,
(18:36):
and he pretty much just died.
Yeah.
With a sword right through thechest.
Anthony (18:40):
Yeah, he's pretty awesome.
I love his loyalty to theAtreides family, too.
I, I really love that, you know,how, he, he wasn't just loyal
because he was employed by themor their servant, but he like,
he really loves Paul, right?
And he really loved Paul'sbrother.
And so his loyalty is based onlove, not out of obligation,
(19:04):
which I thought is a, you know,made him a specifically unique
character you know, and, andmaybe the most moral of all the
characters.
I don't know.
Ethan (19:18):
Yeah, I don't know if moral would be a good way to
describe him because he he wasthe one that showed them where
the Atomic bomb I wouldn't saythat's the most moral thing.
Yeah,
Anthony (19:27):
maybe what I mean Maybe a better way to say it is
principle based, you know Yeah,he he knows what his purpose is
and he believes in it He'sconvicted and and he follows
through with yeah, I don't
Ethan (19:41):
I don't know if he's like under oath or anything Right.
But if he was, he, he sure isdedicated to following that.
Anthony (19:47):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
The Stormtroopers from Star Warsare, I think, based in part on
the Sardaukar, which in Dune,the Sardaukar, Sardauk, I think
I'm saying it right, Sardaukar.
That sounds right.
Yeah they're like this eliteForce right there the Emperor's
troopers
Ethan (20:08):
get the storm troopers can't even
Anthony (20:09):
yeah, but the storm troopers obviously Not elite
because they in
Ethan (20:14):
the first five minutes of the movie.
You see this one guy from like acliff snipe one of those Worms
summoning things.
Yeah.
Anthony (20:23):
Yeah,
Ethan (20:24):
like no hesitation just shoot And it's just gone.
Anthony (20:27):
Yeah.
Yeah, they're pretty they'repretty cool as far as Their
Ethan (20:31):
only problem is you gotta break the glass on their head
and they're pretty much gone.
Anthony (20:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I liked the Sardaukar.
And the Emperor What was yourtake on the Emperor's character?
I mean,
Ethan (20:45):
I guess Oh, I'm thinking of the guy who was basically
running Arrakis.
The Emperor?
He, he reminded me of Palpatinebefore he was emperor, like when
he was chancellor, just causeyou know, the, the democratic
government in Star Wars kind ofhad a hard time doing things
(21:08):
when it was the Republic and theemperor in this seemed just
really unable to.
Make a, make a choice.
He got, he, like, he, he justgets to Arrakis while the big
fight is happening, and then heis already forced to agree to,
to these terms that Paul putsdown.
Anthony (21:27):
Yeah, it's a pretty quick downfall for him.
Yeah.
And he doesn't have mysticalpowers, right, in, in the
Emperor in Dune.
He's, he's a politic, he haspolitical power, but that power
is come, you know, falling apartat the seams towards the end of
the movie, and then ultimatelyhe, he becomes irrelevant, you
(21:49):
know.
Yeah.
And ends up, you know, You know,it must have been humiliating,
that scene where he kisses PaulAtreides ring.
Do you remember that?
At the movie.
Yeah, so, I so yeah, so theEmperor definitely has some
differences between the youknow, as compared with the
Emperor from Star Wars.
I I was skeptical of the castingof the Emperor in Dune II
(22:15):
Christopher Walken, who, I loveChristopher Walken, he's, he's
great, he, in, in some movies,but I had a really hard time
seeing him as playing thisemperor figure, but it turns out
he did a really good job.
I, I, I really, I bought intohis character.
(22:35):
I thought his relationship withhis daughter, the princess
Irulan, was portrayed reallywell.
And so Christopher Walken reallyis a good actor.
I just, because of some of theother roles I've seen him in, I,
I was having a hard timeenvisioning how he would be in
this movie, but he, he did agreat job.
Ethan (22:51):
Yeah.
If there was a character that Iwould relate to Emperor
Palpatine, it was Oh, his nameis leaving me.
But, you know, he's just the guythat is basically in charge of
Arrakis throughout the wholemovie.
Yeah, the baron.
Yeah, and he's like alwayssitting in that hot tub.
Anthony (23:09):
Yeah, I mean, talk about a disgusting character,
right?
Yeah.
Like, they made him asdisgusting as they possibly
could.
Ethan (23:17):
And he's always having somebody else do his dirty work.
Anthony (23:20):
Yeah, yeah, he, he, he's He directs other people.
He doesn't go out and do it onhis own.
Ethan (23:26):
And he had that like right hand man character that
you could see as a Darth Vaderstyle character.
Anthony (23:31):
Right.
Right.
Right.
Ethan (23:33):
I keep saying like the characters is like a star Wars
style character, but no, thestar Wars characters are a dune.
Right.
It's just hard to wrap my mindaround.
Anthony (23:43):
Yeah.
Yeah, it is.
Well, cause I mean, you, yougrew up watching star Wars, not
dune.
Right.
Yeah.
And so, so it makes sense.
I, I did too.
In fact, I've never even seenthe 1984 Dune version in its
entirety.
I've seen like clips on YouTubeand stuff, but I've never seen
the whole thing.
I kind of want to go watch iteven though it's supposed to be
pretty terrible, just becauseit's like this cult classic and
(24:07):
I think it'd be fun to kind ofcompare the 1980s movie to the
the current movies that havecome out.
Yeah.
But, but yeah, I mean, it, it,it, it, it really is true that
you know, were it not for Dune,I don't think we would have had
Star Wars, at least not StarWars as we know it.
Ethan (24:26):
It'd probably be very different.
Anthony (24:29):
Yeah.
And Star Wars was inspired byother science fiction too.
I mean, it was certainlyinspired by Isaac Asimov's
foundation series.
And inspired by history,inspired by mythology, you know,
so it, it has a, George Lucaswas inspired by a lot of things
and used a lot of elements fromdifferent stories in creating
(24:50):
Star Wars, but I think probablythe one he drew most heavily
from had to have been Dune.
Ethan (24:57):
Yeah.
Anthony (24:59):
So, anyway I recommend if you haven't seen Dune 2 go
check it out.
If you haven't watched Dune 1,watch that first because they,
the two movies do go together,and I think you'll be a little
confused if you skip Dune 1.
So they're, they're great moviesThe, the plot is complex, you
know, and it's a, it's a littlebit of a slow burn, I think.
(25:22):
Yeah.
But I kind of like that aboutit.
I, I, I like slow burns ifthey're done well.
Mm hmm.
And, and in this case, Dune 2was, was done really well.
But, so, and you do, Both of themovies are fairly long.
I think they're both about twoand a half hours long.
Yeah, I think so.
Or something like that.
So, you know, you know, becareful.
(25:45):
ready to sit down and, you know,watch a long movie if you're
going to do it but yeah, it wasawesome and I can't wait for
them to make the Dune Messiahmovie.
I, I, I think it's going to bejust as good, if not better than
the, these first two, especiallysince the director is staying
involved with it and working onthe script and
Ethan (26:06):
Yeah.
I would also really recommendthis movie.
I personally haven't read thebook, but the movie is written
in a way to where you don't haveto read the book to understand
it.
As long as you've watched one,you can understand two.
Yeah,
Anthony (26:24):
yeah, for sure.
Yeah, you definitely don't haveto have read the book to enjoy
these movies.
You know, as always, if you readthe book, it probably does help
a little bit when you go towatch the movie.
If, if the movie's of a somewhatfaithful adaptation, but but
it's certainly not necessary inthis case to have read the book
(26:45):
before you see the movies.
Ethan (26:46):
Yeah, and also it is very visually appealing.
The graphics that they used lookstunning.
The CGI is great.
Anthony (26:53):
Yeah.
Yeah, aesthetically, it's justamazing.
They, they take this Barrendesert planet and just
Ethan (27:03):
they put so much life into it.
Yeah,
Anthony (27:05):
that's a great way to describe it.
Yeah, they put a lot of lifeinto it.
I like that.
And yeah, it's, it's just agreat, it's a great cinematic
experience.
We, we saw it on the IMAX whichwas a great way.
The, the other thing I noticedtoo, when we.
You know, the IMAX is known forits sound, too, and the sound in
this movie is really intense.
(27:26):
Yeah, its
Ethan (27:26):
sound design is great.
Sound design is usuallysomething relatively
underappreciated, but they did areally good job with, with the
sound.
Anthony (27:34):
They, they really did.
And I, I mean, I, I was sittingthere and I could feel like my
heart vibrating and stuff, youknow, in those deep sounds came
on you know, at different timesin the movie.
So yeah.
So the sound, the music, all ofit is great.
Yeah.
I give it an A
Ethan (27:54):
Yeah, I would agree.
A
Anthony (27:55):
Yeah, for sure.
All right.
Anything else on Dune before wewrap up?
Ethan (28:01):
No, I think I, we've pretty much said everything
there is to say about it.
So if you enjoyed today'sepisode You can leave us an
email, say anything that youwant us to do better, or if you
just want to say hi, whatever.
You can also follow our socialmedias, we'll leave them in the
episode description, but we'llsee you next one.
(28:25):
Yeah,
Anthony (28:25):
have a great week, everyone.
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