May 29, 2020 • 41 mins
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For nearly thirty years, Todd Gongwer has been building his expertise in leadership
and team dynamics by serving in a variety of senior-level roles in business and
athletics. From an entrepreneurial start-up to public company to college athletics,
As a best-selling author, speaker, and teacher on leadership and cultural
development, Todd has spent the last decade working with some of the most
successful coaches, teams, business leaders, and educators in America.
His principles have been embraced by countless leaders, including coaches and
athletes from championship programs in the NCAA, NBA, MLB, and NFL. Stories of
the profound impact of Todd’s message have been featured on ESPN the
Magazine, ESPN.com, Bleacher Report, and Forbes.com.
Todd continues to work with many of the most successful coaches in sports and is a popular speaker at major universities (Darden School of Business), high-profile
sports teams (Clemson Football), national associations (American Baseball
Coaches Association), and high-profile businesses (Home Depot) throughout the
country.
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Special discount for our Coach to Coach community!
Click Here for discount rates on his Kardia Training Group Virtual Coaching Platform
Character AMP tool for Coaches/Parents/Players: www.characteramp.com
Discount Code: "Todd150" for $150 off!
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He lives in Indiana with his wife and three children, Kaden, Kira, and
Wadson.
"If you lose sight of the proper perspective, everything else seems to fall through the cracks."
"I had a lot of coaching and business friends who were pursuing great things at the expense of the most important things."
“A key is not only becoming more self-aware because that’s becoming more of a hot topic right now but learning to act on that self-awareness.”
Website: https://www.nkyfca.org/podcast
Instagram: @nkyfca
Twitter: @nkyfca @natesallee24
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NKYFCA
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nate (00:00):
This is the coach to coach podcast, episode number 33 gang
time
Music (00:21):
[inaudible].
Nate (00:24):
Hey, what's going on guys?
Welcome to the coach to coachpodcast where we believe every
kid deserves a coach that caresand every coach deserves someone
in their corner.
I'm your host Nate Sallee andthis podcast is sponsored by the
Northern Kentucky fellowship ofChristian athletes.
We have an incredible team ofdonors, of volunteers, board
(00:44):
members, supporters prayerpartners that all contribute to
this movement of God, ofNorthern Kentucky FCA, and part
of the vision behind thispodcast is to capture the
collective wisdom in NorthernKentucky greater Cincinnati and
beyond so we can all get bettertogether and really have success
not only with our teams on thefield, but to be able to
(01:06):
transform lives in the process.
I couldn't be more excited aboutthis episode as we interview
Todd Gongwer.
Todd has written one of theiconic coaching books of our era
lead for God's sake.
I remember hearing this book afew years ago.
I got through it in two sittings.
It's an incredible story about abasketball coach who is friends
(01:30):
with a business leader as well.
And Todd has some incredibleexperience in both worlds at the
business level but also incollege athletics as a
basketball coach at thecollegiate level.
He's spoken for championshipprograms in the NCAA, NBA, MLB
NFL has been featured onespn.com, Forbes Bleacher report
(01:52):
and his book, some of the peoplethat have endorsed his book, uh,
Lou Holtz said he wished he'dread it 30 years ago.
Debow Swinney said it's one ofhis all time favorites.
Urban Meyer, one of the mostpowerful books I've ever had,
John Smoltz, former MLB player,powerful life changing it truly
is an incredible, uh, messagethat he is passionate about.
(02:12):
And he gives us some insightinto some of the lessons he's
learned personally as a coach,as a leader, things that he
wished he would have knownhimself and why he's so
passionate about moving forward.
So you're going to get a lotout.
I hope you have a notepad readyand willing to take some notes.
Hey and real quick before we getstarted, if you could take just
a moment and rate this podcast.
(02:34):
If you've enjoyed previousepisodes before, it would really
help get the word out and getthe message out and be able to
help more coaches.
And I can't wait for you to hopright in.
I'm not gonna hold you backanymore.
Let's hop into our conversationwith Todd Gongwer.
All right guys.
We are here with uh, with Todd[inaudible].
He's the author of, Lead forGod's sake and he is man, just a
(02:56):
really respected leader thistime.
Just really you giving us sometime.
What I love about you is you'vekind of been in both worlds that
one of your most popular bookslead for God's sake is you've
been in the business world,you've kind of done that
organizational side, but you'realso exactly been in the hat of
most of our listeners, which arecurrent coaches, at the college
(03:18):
level.
Yeah.
Would just love to just have youhave you jump in and just share
maybe some, some big learningskind of through your, your
coaching journey specifically.
Yeah.
So it's interesting, man.
You know, I look back and youknow, hindsight's always 2020
but in our lives, I thinkespecially as followers of
Christ, you know, we, I mean Godhas orchestrated so many really
(03:39):
cool things that a lot of timeswhen we're going through and we
just, we have no idea how he'sworking on us, what he's
developing within us.
And I think obviously that's alesson for right now.
I mean, I think there is nodoubt God's doing a work in a
lot of hearts right now and alot of really cool ways with
regards to relationships andfocus and priorities and all
those things.
(03:59):
So, but when I look back on mydays in coaching and for me, and
I was really, really passionateabout sports, I was passionate
about basketball in particular,you know, had 12 years I think
as an assistant collegebasketball coach had a great
mentor, coach Mike Lightfoot,who just, you know, he was
awesome.
He was a guy that understood thebigger why and was always about
(04:20):
impacting the kids, not only intheir lives, but eternally.
So I took a ton away from justbeing a part of that program.
But even as I think back on thatquestion, I look, you know,
coaching, I got out of coachingin 2004 officially, but then
from that time my kids werestarting to grow older.
So I coached in youth sports,basketball, soccer, baseball in
(04:43):
every way, shape or form, bothmy son and daughter.
And when I look at that timefrom then, you know, even up
until about a year, year and ahalf ago, when, when you take
the college coaching experienceand those coaching experiences,
you got literally hundreds andhundreds of games, thousands of
practices.
Um, you know, I mean, and just,and just some amazing, amazing
(05:05):
experiences.
I think you're looking back forme, and especially because I
started coaching at a young age.
I was in my young twenties andit was so about climbing the
ladder, you know, pursuingsuccess and, and my title meant
everything to me.
Back then.
It was like, you call me coach,you know, and, and even when I,
when I look back on, you know,how I, I dressed my appearance,
(05:28):
I mean how I carried myself.
It's not that any of thosethings, they all matter.
You know what I mean?
They're, they're not, they'renot completely insignificant
things at all.
But at the same time, when youfast forward to today, and even
the opportunities I've had inthe last decade to work with
some of the top coaches in thecountry, some the top programs
in the country, you know,keeping things in proper
perspective is just, it reallyis everything.
(05:51):
And again, this goes back to thewhy of the book that, I mean, I
learned that through that is, isno matter how focused we can be
on our why and the right whysports has this tendency to inch
us out of that focus and then tothe competitive nature that all
that's within all of us that arein sports.
(06:11):
You know, you're not going to bea coach if you don't want to win
the games.
You know, you've got thatcompetitive and there's nothing
wrong with that.
You know, I think, and I'llprobably botch this up, but I
think the, the, the termcompetition actually in some
way, shape or form of is derivedfrom a root that had to do with
cooperation.
You know, and I think often wejust, we lose sight of that.
(06:33):
And, and again, yes.
You know, one of the things,biggest things that I took away
is how easy it is to lose sightof the fact that listen, why,
why are we really in this sport?
Are we really given theopportunity to compete?
And if it really is about justme beating you, you know, we're
setting kids up for some, forsome tough times as they even
(06:53):
move out into culture becauseyou could operate that and that
way completely in the businessworld too.
And in fact, you can be verysuccessful if that's the
obsession that becomes theobsession.
But it's a dangerous game whenit gets out of balance.
And for many of us, just like,it's easy to lose sight of the
proper perspective when we werein sports.
(07:14):
And keeping the competition inthe right, you know, place.
It becomes easy in the businessworld to to lose perspective.
And remember this is aboutrelationships.
This is about impact.
This is about making each otherthe best that we can be.
When you're a coach you have theunbelievable opportunity to
teach, to help kids move intothe next phases of their lives
(07:38):
and to again, proper perspectiveis huge.
It cannot be all about killingthe opponent and that's just a
tough balance.
I think that's probably as muchas anything kind of an
underlying theme of everythingthat I learned in sports was,
man, if you lose sight of thatperspective, everything else
starts to fall through thecracks so to speak.
(08:01):
On the outside.
Yeah, that's big.
It really stuck out not only theperspective and being connected
to your why.
It also sounded like the ongoingmaintenance of staying connected
to that why is is really key.
Because like you said, thedefault trajectory of sport is
to pull you slowly, even itmight just be an inch at a time,
(08:22):
but pull you slowly, slowly awayfrom that.
So, how have you maintained thatperspective, whether it be
family, business or coaching orwhat have been some ways that
you've fought against that, thatresistance?
Because if you're like me, I'vedefinitely fallen off.
They've taken an exit ramp attimes.
Yeah.
There, there is no doubt.
And I am, I am like, I'm acompetitor big time.
(08:46):
I mean my kids get frustratedwith me when we play ping pong.
I mean, you know, like itdoesn't matter what we're
playing.
Yeah.
I, I think, I truly believeNate.
It's, it's, it's kinda crazycause again, looking back on my
life, I'm 50 years old now and Ilooked back and I'm like, man, I
really believe God.
One of the reasons he gave methis book and this message, and
(09:06):
it's so resonated in my heartbecause he knew I needed
something to like remind meevery day.
And so like this is what I dofor a living now is help teach
that proper perspective.
Why do we really do, what's yourreal purpose?
How do you remain true to that?
And so, you know, for me a bigway to stay true to that has
been, yeah, that's a huge partof my message.
(09:28):
When you're teaching it, it'seasy to go, Todd, come on you
say.
And so like, like even, youknow, I mentioned coaching my
kids and, and for years,coaching AAU basketball, you
know, and as my kid got olderand older, my son, it was a
very, very competitiveenvironment obviously.
And um, but you know, alwaystrying to remain true to that
(09:49):
ultimate message of why we dowhat we do.
So it was teaching the messagehelped my daily routines are
really big for me.
Maintaining a proper kind ofbalance and focus in my life, my
quiet time every morning.
Um, I think that's a huge timeof just kind of centering
ourselves and reflecting and Ithink fewer and few people tend
(10:10):
to take that time.
I mean, I protect that timecrazy.
People get frustrated with mesometimes cause I won't, I don't
want to do an event at, youknow, even with coaches, like
you know, we start at 5:30 AMand so be there at six Todd and
I'm like, you know, I'm notgoing to because that's early
morning is my time.
I get up and I and I that first45 minutes to an hour, I really
(10:35):
want to ease into my day withquiet reflection and prayer with
time in the word.
I mean real time in the word,not five minutes of here's two
scriptures and a little story.
That's nothing wrong with that.
But I've really found that forme, especially the last 15 to 20
years, I mean that's changed mylife just exponentially is just
(10:59):
taking time to really read inthe word.
And you know that quiet timeprayer, reading the word.
So I think that's been a bigpart of kind of maintaining the
proper perspective cause westart every day like that.
It's reminder, Hey, these arethe things Jesus was teaching
and I just didn't see himgetting up all the time and go,
(11:19):
come on guys.
You know, like get after eachother, come on, get at you and
beat each other.
You know what I mean?
Like, like it's not, it'snothing bad in the competition,
but it wasn't his primary focusto teach them to compete against
each other.
You know, when they came outwith words of who's the greatest
and all that other stuff, what'dhe tell him?
You know what I mean?
(11:39):
I mean like, come on.
So I think really staying trueto, um, you know, his words, his
teachings, that's, that was abig part to her has been a big
part of helping me try as bestcan to stay, to stay in the
proper perspective.
Yeah, that's, that's reallygood.
And just in the same way that weas former athletes, current
(12:03):
coaches, what have you, we knowwhat it's like to have a
disciplined training program andit's so much harder.
Once I got out of, of collegiatesports, there's no team
accountability, there's nostrength coach.
It's going to be breathing downyour neck if you miss a workout,
you know?
So it's just really interestinghow we kind of have to read,
(12:25):
almost figure out how we'regoing to have that, have that
time or have that way tocontinue to take care of
ourselves physically, mentally,spiritually.
It's not going to happen byaccident.
We do.
We almost have to take time towrite up a template, you know,
workout plan, you know, I'mplaying, I've also heard
somebody say that they've placetheir time that they have with
(12:48):
the prayer with God, howeverlong it may not be as long as
you are speaking of, but they'llput it in their calendar as if
it's a and appointment, ameeting.
Like it'll be in their calendaras now.
This is like time with God forthis however long and to protect
it as if it was another meetingwith a really key person in your
life.
(13:08):
And I was like, why?
Why have I not viewed it thatway?
Has it?
Why hasn't it not laid it on mycalendar in the same way that I
would have, you know, put thison the counter, you know, key
meeting.
Yup, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Well, Hey, I would love to hear,and interesting enough on this
podcast is when I was really, itwas the catalyst for me to read
(13:30):
lead for God's sake.
I'd heard about it at like aglazier football clinic,
different things, but weinterviewed a local basketball
coach, Joel Steczynski, and hehad, he had read it and he was
reading inside out coaching.
So we were talking about that.
But I was like, man, I've got toread.
I can't be doing my job if Idon't read lead for God's sake.
Read it within just a couple ofsittings.
Really appreciated thesimplicity of it, the story,
(13:51):
even the, the, the drawing, thesimple stick figure drawing.
I'm like, man, I love thisbecause it's not like you gotta
be a doctor to be able todiscern all this stuff.
So just tell me a little, Iwould love to hear just kind of
the backstory of what was your,what was the inspiration for,
for late, for God's sake.
Yeah.
So, um, you know, it'sinteresting I shared with you
(14:14):
kind of, you've heard my, mycoaching part of the journey.
You mentioned at the beginningthough, you're like, Hey Todd,
you had a cool businessbackground.
So yeah, that was my life.
I grew up family, four boys.
Um, my grandfather had started asmall business.
My father really built thatsmall business into something
really unique in our area,especially in, and, um, and so
(14:37):
I, I, it's a food servicecompany that I was involved with
really at all facets from avery, very young age.
And you know, I tell people allthe time when you're the, the
son of the owner of the company,you know, that can be really
good or really, really bad.
And, you know, my dad was one ofthose that was like, you know,
made it made real.
Um, his point of emphasis was,you better work harder than
(14:59):
other people.
You better prove yourself.
You better be better, you betterbe an earlier, you better be
like, you know, all that stuff.
Not all of it was completelyhealthy, but you know, but for
the most part it was, it wasreally a um, you know, drove us
to work hard and so it was greatwork ethic.
Part of that was awesome.
So, but I love the businessworld and I love the
(15:20):
opportunities that I had inleadership early on.
And then eventually to take, youknow, more formal leadership
roles to have my own businessand own my own businesses over
the years.
Eventually as I'm running inthese two worlds parallel in the
nineties coaching, because itwas an NAIA school, I kept my
day job.
So now I'm working 70 80, 90hours a week in, in both of
(15:42):
those I didn't have a kid so Icould do that.
But I was also just obsessedwith studying leadership out of
necessity more than anythingelse.
So really became, you know, withthe three of those things going
on all through about 95 to 2002,three, you know, in that area
for just really began toactually, right a lot of the
(16:03):
stuff that I felt I was learningthing and combining.
And, and even then I felt Godwas kind of laying on my heart
and I had the opportunity, I hada CEO come to me and wanted me
to kind of lead a culturaltransformation in his company,
maybe a part of the senior team.
It was both feet in, you can'tdo this part time.
So I left coaching for that anddid that for three years.
(16:26):
And then we, that company wasbought by our largest
competitor, which was a publiccompany.
And I was able to serve then asa senior executive for that
organization for a few moreyears.
And so through that time, reallybringing a lot of these
philosophies more into theforefront and testing them and
really, um, to a point where Ifelt called the write.
(16:47):
It felt like God laid and titleon my heart.
And when the season was finallyright, where I knew I had the
time to write it and notsacrifice my family and all that
other stuff.
During that time, you know, as Iset out, I wanted my kids to
have something.
If anything should ever happento me and a lot of friends in
the sports world, the businessworld, I felt were pursuing
great things at the expense ofthe most important things.
(17:11):
And even, and, and honestly Ilook back on that, even friends
I say, I always say friends inthe sports world, the business
world, but even friends thatwere in ministry too, you know,
cause we can lose sight ofpriorities and perspective in
any of our pursuits.
I think that's important for usto, you know, think about all of
us.
I gotta hop in for a secondright on that.
Sorry.
When you said it doesn't matterwhat area you can, we can always
(17:33):
lose sight of that.
I used to think that it was onlyathletes that had an issue with
finding their identity in theirsport and that becoming who they
were.
And then now I've realized itis, it could be the same exact
thing, copy and paste with acoach.
You can find your as coachso-and-so and that's your,
that's your source of selfworth.
So why wouldn't you be obsessedwith maximizing that?
(17:55):
And then I found that even more,I mean other people, same thing
in the business world.
So I just, I just want to makesure, man, that is such a big
point you just made, that all ofus can find our worth and
significance from something thatisn't really worth putting all
that that much stock in.
Yeah, absolutely.
And so that, that was my, I meanagain, like I said, I shared
all, these are my own battlestoo.
(18:17):
If people ask me about thecharacters in the book, Todd,
who were those characters?
Come on, you had an, and Ialways tell people, I said,
look, first of all the coach, Isaid, it's 99% of coaches that
I've ever been around was thatcharacter because every coach
battles that at some point intheir life.
Yeah.
And I said the business personand I said, including though
myself, like I was that guy, Iwas that guy that was on one
(18:41):
hand trying to do this andsaying these things.
On the other hand, the motivesstill weren't that pure and the
business world's same way.
You know, everybody knows agrant and I tell people like all
these business people arepursuing, you see so many of
them are, are, can relate togrant but I can do.
Right.
That was me.
You know, unfortunately in bothcases I never was that highly
(19:02):
successful head coach and Inever was that, you know, multi-
million or billionaire CEO guy.
But my heart was right wherethose hearts were.
Yeah.
You know, leading up to that, Ithink that had a huge part in
and really shaping or equippingme to be able to write what God
wanted me to put on paper forthat.
So, but I, I never intended towrite it as a fiction.
(19:24):
I had it laid out step one, steptwo, step three and you know,
struggled for weeks trying towrite this thing.
Nothing came out right.
Finally just felt like God wassaying, Todd, start over the
short story and literally Nate,I mean, I had no clue how to
write fiction.
I've barely read any fiction atthat point in my life.
And I was like, okay, I'll tryit.
(19:47):
Maybe it'll be a couple chaptersor a couple pages or chapters
and then I'll, then I'll get mybrilliant commentary.
And literally when I started, itjust poured out like nothing
that I'd ever experienced.
And so, you know, honestly, um,that, you know, when I, when I
got about halfway or two thirdsof the way through, I could tell
that God was, was doingsomething way bigger than me.
(20:10):
And as I began to hand themanuscript out, I've continued
to have more and more peoplecoming back to me.
You know, people that werenervous I was handed it to and
they were like, Oh my gosh, whatare we gonna tell Todd?
There's no way Todd couldwritten a book, you know, that I
want to read.
And then all of a sudden theycome back and they're going, Oh
my gosh, Todd, you're right.
You know, like you didn't writethis like, you know, and I was
(20:32):
like, I told you, you know, soreally, really cool experience.
And even since that time, that'sbeen cool and dealing with all
the, you know, when you get, Itell people there's really, it
meets you where you are, so youget coaches from all over the
board that that come back to me.
Guys like Tony Bennett DaboSwinney those guys read the
book.
(20:52):
They love it because they,that's who they have been in our
today.
Ben, that coach in the latterstage center.
Yeah.
It's not that they didn'tbattled coach rocker at the
beginning.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Then there's other guys outthere that maybe battled it more
and it hits them and it says,Hey, you need to get back to
why.
(21:12):
You know, why do you really dowhat you do?
You say this, but do you reallycare about the kids?
Is it really about impactingthem for the kingdom?
You know, do you reallyunderstand the ultimate impact
you had the opportunity to haveon these kids' lives and hearts?
When I, when it went out andstarted getting out to others
and I started getting feedbackfrom, you know, people were
coming back.
It just took off organicallywith Lou Holtz and Jim Tressel
(21:34):
when he was still coaching.
And obviously urban Meyer was ahuge one and it just kinda, you
know, really, I know that theStoops are big fans as well
yeah, yeah.
Oh exactly.
I mean like all those guys, man,I was just finding out from
different people all over thecountry.
Like, you know, this coach hasread and he's talking about it
at this conference and this, youknow, John John Beeline is that
a Indiana high school coachesconference and he's holding the
(21:57):
book up to all the statebasketball coaches and you know,
you gotta read this.
Every coach needs to read.
So it's been awesome that a lotof these guys, I don't even
know, I've never heard, youknow, all of a sudden someone
will, you know, shoot me a textgoing, Hey, they're talking
about this at the NCAAtournament, you know, champions
breakfast or whatever, you know.
And so it's been really just areal blessing to be on the
(22:20):
journey.
It's been a God thing.
And um, you know, I tell peopleall the time, obedience has been
my number one goal through thewhole journey.
Mmm.
It's slow.
It's been slow as you know,maybe as a part of a result of
that because I haven't, youknow, tried to just push out 10
other books and do another andnothing wrong with that.
(22:43):
But my journey is I just feltlike I've been called to be
different in some of thesethings and take my time on this
and I hope and pray that thenext book, the SQL comes out
sooner than later and even aprequel.
yeah, that'd be good.
To put ourselves kind of withthat hat on of the, of the coach
inside the book.
One of the questions or one ofthe frustrations that I think
(23:06):
resonates so well as, Hey,there's no leadership on this
team.
I don't have any leaders.
You know, we need to get step upand lead and well, obviously
that's part of the title.
And so that's a big, that's ahuge question.
Why is it, do you think, becauseI've done this myself, I've
actually thought this and had towork through this.
Why is it you think that we havethis default mode of if we're
(23:26):
leading a team or a group ofpeople and we don't see
leadership in them that we kindof go to do, they don't have any
leadership versus holding up themirror and saying, what am I
currently doing that isn'tbringing that out on them?
You know, why do you thinkthat's our default mode?
Man, Nate, that's such a, that'sa love that question.
(23:48):
I think that's, I think that'sso huge.
You know, when people ask me thecore or when I sh I should say
when I've asked for the corethemes of the book and I've, and
it's funny cause I did a surveya couple of years ago and I did
it on Twitter and Facebook.
I just kind of went on and said,Hey you guys, give me two words
(24:08):
that best describe what the booktaught you or what the themes
were.
The book was and it wasobviously purpose and servant
leadership and selflessness andand love and relationships and
all of these and it was amazing.
I literally had, I don't know ofthe hundreds and hundreds of
responses I got, I think I hadover 40 some responses before I
(24:31):
actually got to the one thatspoke most specifically to what
I believe the core theme reallyis and that is self awareness.
Yeah.
What you just described is thetendency is so, I mean this is
so prevalent in our society.
Our tendency is so when we havea problem.
(24:56):
Yeah.
You know, I mean we turn the TVon.
That's all you see my fault man.
I'm so mad at these politicians.
I'm so mad at the people thatthink differently.
I'm so mad at the president andthe speaker of the house, like
everybody is getting so angry ateverybody else.
You know what it is is, isbasically what it comes down to.
(25:19):
It's basically a numbing salvethat we put on the pain of, you
know, the results that are goingon around us that, that in some
way, shape or form, we stillcaused.
But we, God forbid, we ever lookback and try to go, Hey, how did
I contribute to this problem?
Because I mean like, you know,99.9% of the time, if we're
(25:41):
involved in it in some way,especially if we're a leader, we
contributed to the problem andwe just, so, you know, such a
tough one.
Um, it's a tough one to teach.
That's one of the core things ofa lot of the workshops and
things that I do now is tryingto help leaders really develop
more of a, of a, not onlybecoming more self aware because
(26:02):
that's, uh, it's becoming moreand more of a hot topic among
coaches and stuff, but learningto act on that self-awareness.
Yeah.
You know, reconcile reconcilingthe relationships that we
screwed up with.
And that's another part.
If you, if you think back nowthe question you asked me and
you think through the wholeprocess, I don't want to give
the story away, but you knowwhat I'm talking about.
(26:22):
Like coach, there had to be thatmoment in that moment of, okay,
not only am I aware of it, wellhow am I going to act now to do
something and what are thosesteps?
Yeah, I mean that's just such a,that's a such a huge part of
leadership and our culturedoesn't, we're not doing a lot
right now in terms the broadercultural themes that our young
(26:45):
people are seeing.
We're not doing a lot to reallyteach them to look here first.
I think.
I think you guys are, I thinkFCA is because dealing with
heart stuff and dealing withforgiveness and things like
that, but unfortunately thebroader culture, we're getting
killed in that area right now.
Well, and a n eat byproduct ofconfronting the even harsh r
(27:07):
eality sometimes is, I mean youh ave, you get some, you get
some humility out of it.
You know, God says if you l iftyourself up, you'll be humbled.
A nd if you h ummed yourself, you'd be lifted up.
A nd another, the thing for methough is now that I've l ike
processed it more, and it'sstill an ongoing thing for me,
is I r ealized I actually havecontrol over my thoughts,
feelings, and actions, and I canactually do something about me,
(27:29):
whereas I can't control someoneelse.
Even if it's somebody I spend somuch time with.
I can't control my spouse ahundred percent.
I c an't control my kids ahundred percent I can't control,
u h, other student leaders orvolunteers.
But I can control who I am, whatI'm living out, my thoughts,
feelings and actions.
And t hat's, that's moreempowering.
So initially it stings and ithurts.
(27:50):
But then I'm like, Oh, but ifI'm, I have areas to grow, I can
actually do something about thatin real time.
And it's actually become veryencouraging.
But initially it kind of stinks.
Todd (28:02):
Yeah, no doubt.
That's so good.
Nate, you're, you're spot on,man.
That is, you hit the nail on thehead.
I mean, that's, we control, wecontrol in terms of changing and
effect.
We control our competing, ourcontribution, whatever
percentage of the contributionit may be, we control that
demolished you.
You hit the nail on the head,man, that's great.
Nate (28:23):
And that can still have a huge, massive impact and
influence, but it's just notgoing to be, you know, we don't,
yeah, we don't have the steeringwheel per se.
We'll have one.
One question we always love tokind of wrap up with is, uh,
there's coaches that listen thathave been at the game for 20
plus years, but we also havejust a really big heart for
that.
Coach who's just starting outthat just gotten that first
(28:43):
assistant coach position.
Or maybe they come back fromcollege or maybe they're a
senior in high school andthey're already coaching
ten-year-old tenue volleyballalready at AAU level.
You know, we see that happenmore and more.
What would be one or two thingsthat, that you would tell a
coach that's just kind ofgetting their feet wet, just
getting going that you wish youwould've known when you got your
(29:05):
start?
Todd (29:06):
Well, again, and I, this is going to sound self-serving,
I promise.
It's not.
Hopefully everybody willremember who I said is
responsible for writing thatbook and that I, I just had a
lot of hell.
I mean, I, I thank God he gaveme the opportunity to put the
pen to the paper, so to speak.
But I truly believe it was amessage that he really wanted me
(29:26):
to communicate a conduit as aconduit.
You know, that, that when, whenI hear that come back from
folks, I wish I'd read this 30years.
And especially like from LouHoltz, a lot of people, you
know, that's so meaningful and Iknow that's way beyond anything
I could ever do.
And so I look back, what is thatmean?
That that's basically because Ifeel the same way.
(29:48):
I wish I would've had the book.
I wish I'd have read it when Iwas 20 you know, because what it
did is, is what it does, I thinkis it helps us set that right
heart set right from thebeginning going, okay, what is
my real why?
Why do I really do what I do?
Am I really in touch with this?
Can I, can I get over the selfdeception component in my life?
(30:09):
Be honest.
And if it's not right, what do Ineed to do to set it straight?
Because the thing that I, I tellcoaches all the time, really is
this.
There really are a lot of folksthat are coaching for the wrong
reasons.
It's about my own affirmation,my tendency to want control of
things, my fear of dependence onanybody else.
(30:30):
I got to have the, you know, Imean there's all kinds of things
that could be impure here thatcan sneak into there from a
standpoint of insecurity andthings like that.
You know, eventually cracks inthe foundation can be seen if we
don't recognize that right fromthe beginning, go, wait a
minute, this is more about me.
I need to change that.
It needs to be about if I'm, ifI'm going to be in this and
(30:52):
influence young people, itreally needs to be about them
and what's best for them.
We need coaches and leaders thatare like that.
I think, you know, reflecting onthat, reading the book, I think
it gives you a chance to dothat.
But really taking the time toreflect on that and even maybe
even writing a purpose statementfor yourself, this is why I do
(31:13):
what I do and this is why Ireally believe God created me in
the first place.
These things need to remainaligned.
If you write those two thingsdown, it's pretty, I mean, you
know, again, it's plain andsimple.
Go back and read it everyFriday.
Okay, right.
You know, remember why you'rehere and it really isn't about
(31:33):
my advancement, my, you know, soI think that's a big one.
Um, you know, the concept ofself awareness and reminding,
you know, really, really havinga good mentor in our life that
you seek out to, to say, look,please, I'm inviting you to tell
me the insecurities that you'reseeing or the ways if I'm over
(31:56):
the top, obsessed with this orthat, you know, helped me remain
true to why I'm here on thisearth.
I think those are two really bigkeys.
Kind of kind of write it out forthe beginning and coming to
grips with it, but then having agel so to speak in your life.
I think those are, those are thethings that I didn't, I didn't,
I wasn't intentional enoughwith, I had some to some extent,
(32:19):
but not until later did I reallyrecognize that, the real
importance of that.
So yeah, those are, those arethe two big things.
Nate (32:27):
Awesome.
And it's so encouraging.
I know we're just so aligned injust with our, some of our FCA
stuff too, like when a coachcomes to the end of our
three-dimensional coaching, oneof the tests they have is to
write down theirtransformational purpose
statement.
They have to have that thingthat they can re revisit, uh, of
staying connected to their why.
And then I was going to, youhaven't heard this story yet, I
don't think, but there was asmall school here in Northern
(32:49):
Kentucky right across there onthe river, right across from,
from Cincinnati called Bellevue,a small A school.
But their girl's basketballcoach reached out to his alumni
and asked if the alumni would bewilling to buy a copy for one of
the current players of lead forGod's sake.
So they have this kind of minievent where the alumni from this
(33:11):
high school purchased a book forthe current players.
And just that, just as anencouragement to you, uh, the
impact is having right here inour area.
It's, it's been pretty cool,
Todd (33:20):
man.
I love that.
That is, that's awesome.
That's awesome to hear.
Um, that is, that's a kind ofthing that, you know, again, uh,
It's a blessing.
I felt credibly blessed andhonored to be a part of the
journey.
God has me on this thing and Ihear stuff like that and I'm
just like, man, that's soawesome.
So awesome.
(33:41):
So thanks for sharing.
Nate (33:42):
Yeah, yeah, coach Sorrell, good guy.
I'm really pumped that he, thathe did that and, and Hey, I just
want to make sure that you, uh,have some room.
How do we get, obviously ifyou're listening to this and you
don't know who Joe and grant andthese guys are from the book,
obvious.
Next step is to get a copy.
So where can we get the book?
What other things do you have onyour website or what are the
(34:02):
things are you up to these days?
Todd (34:03):
Yeah, so, um, obviously the, the books available in most
major retailers, so if you go toyour Barnes and noble
Books-A-Million most of thosestores around the country are
carrying it.
You can get it.
Obviously online.
Amazon a lot of times is thebest price.
So, um, you know, those are,those are obviously options.
They don't, one of the couple ofthings I'm really excited about,
(34:25):
especially this time at thistime, Nate is, is, you know, we,
we developed kind of a, kind ofa virtual university that is
specifically for like thecoaching staff that wants to go
through a series of smallvideos.
It helps develop values.
It helps develop the, you know,helps a coach talk about the
(34:48):
foundation, who do we reallywant to be, what does effective
leadership going to be for us?
Why do we do you?
It's a series of like there'sthree modules, it's like 30
videos and so it's a, it's avirtual training option, um, for
coaches that, um, I think duringthis time might be something
that coaches want.
Nate (35:06):
It's a great season for that.
They have more time.
And honestly, I was justthinking earlier the uh, the
budgets, the expenses thataren't happening as much as
we're mourning the lack ofspring sports and everything,
there's probably a little moremargin in the budget to maybe
invest in some of this stuff.
Todd (35:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can't go to the clinic rightnow.
Right.
This is a clinic, it's a clinicthat comes to you and you can do
with your staff and everythingcan be done.
You can do it on your phone,watch a five, six minute video.
There's a PDF, there's like a 50page workbook that has
individual questions and thenthere's group study for your
staff.
And so that's the one thing.
The other thing that I'm evenmore, and, and I'll give you
(35:43):
like a website that you can goto to find that stuff.
But the other thing that I'meven more excited about right
now is this thing calledcharacter amp that we're doing.
And it's a tool that basicallyhelps the coaches, keep
character at the top of the mindevery week.
One character attribute.
So if you have a six to set upfor like a 16 week season, every
(36:07):
Monday there's a video that thatgets, gets texts to the coaches,
the players and catch this,you'll love this.
All of the parents.
So they get the same video andthen here's where it really gets
good.
Then after the video to all ofthem, then we have a separate
one that's maybe a minute and ahalf that goes directly to the
(36:29):
coaches.
Says, okay, coaches this weekwe're talking about respect for
officials.
Now here's what I want tochallenge you with with regards
to respecting officials.
Remember what we're trying tomodel here and why we're trying
to model this with the kids isthat, and then Hey parents, this
week you saw, we're talkingabout respect reds, I want to
challenge you when you're in thestands.
Now I want to challenge you whatyou're talking about with
(36:51):
different people in differentcities.
You know, like with your kidswhen you get to the car and
you're talking about theofficials here, like what are
you teaching them?
And so we're addressing allthree components.
It's been a really, really coolthing.
Um, and so you know, we're,we're working on right now it's
being set up to where coaches ifthey want to do it in the off
season, cause a lot of coachesare going, she's Todd, we need
(37:14):
something to help us connectwith our kids.
And this is a tool that willthroughout, you know, on a
weekly, like multiple daysthroughout the week, it'll hit
them up and you're all doing thesame thing.
You come back together on a zoomcall on Friday and go, Hey,
how'd this go?
What did we talk about?
What'd you learn this week?
But you know, so some coolthings there.
(37:34):
So both of those are resourcesthat, and I hope it can be an
encouragement to coaches andathletes at this time.
Nate (37:42):
that's great.
Well, we'll put all the, all thelinks in the description of the,
of the episode, but where, wherecould a coach go to get the, the
character and the last thing youjust mentioned?
Todd (37:50):
Yeah, so the character amp is, if you just look up
character amp.com just like itsounds, cha character amp
because it's a character,amplifier.com amp.
So character amp.com.
Um, we'll get that.
The coaches one is that, is thatmy kind of my website, but it's
Kardia TG, K, R, D, T, G andthen the U virtual university.
(38:17):
And if you go into there, youcan see on both of those names
because we're doing a lot ofprograms and stuff.
Um, and I'm, I'm spacing thisright now so I'll have to get it
to you.
But there's like coupon codes sothey can get like a, a huge
discount on both of those forlistening to go into it from
this program.
So awesome.
I'll make sure to get you thatbefore so you can like put them
(38:38):
in there.
Here's the coupon code.
Yeah,
Nate (38:40):
we'll pass those along for sure.
Yeah.
Well, hi Todd.
Thanks so much.
Thanks for bringing it today.
Bringing the energy, sharingyour heart and just for all you
do for, the coaching world andbeyond, you've been a blessing.
You've, you've made an impactmore than you know, here in our
area and, yeah, this blessing toyou and your family moving
forward.
Hey, thanks.
Thank you so much, Nate.
Thank you for what you guys aredoing.
(39:01):
You and my buddies in FCA allover the country, man.
I, I, it's near and dear to myheart for obvious reasons and
man, just keep doing what you'redoing.
I just, I love it and we'resuch, such a need for it
nowadays.
No matter what sports is, sportsis gone for a period right now,
which is great.
In essence because it's, it'shelping a lot of athletes that
(39:25):
maybe wouldn't otherwise bethinking about it.
Go back to that perspective asyou know, what, what really
matters in sports more thananything else and those
relationships and the thingsthat you guys are teaching about
the heart.
That's the stuff that's stillstands.
So you're doing what you'redoing man.
Appreciate that.
Yeah.
Our playing careers all have anexpiration date and might come
soon so.
Todd (39:44):
All right, thank you.
Thanks Nate.
Music (39:55):
[inaudible]
Nate (39:55):
So there you have it guys.
Our conversation with ToddGongwer, what a great man who is
serving and is open was an openbook, really brought it.
I hope you took some notes.
A couple of things that I tookaway was not only arriving at a
healthy perspective but reallyneed to maintain that
perspective even though lifecomes at you and basically get
(40:16):
messy and you need some peoplearound you to be able to do
that.
So I hope that you'll take himup on some of the offerings he
has, whether it be the book.
There was a link in there aboutthe coaches, virtual university,
and then Todd, one 50 is yourdiscount code for the character
amp tools.
That man, that sounded prettyawesome to me to have all think
(40:38):
about having coaches, players,and parents all on the same page
and the unity that that wouldbring and working through some
of the same issuessimultaneously.
That sounded really encouraging.
Well, Hey, if you have notalready, please subscribe to
whatever app you're listeningon, your favorite streaming app
that'll help us serve you betterthat you won't miss any upcoming
(40:59):
episodes.
We're really trying to bring aquality content that's going to
be helpful and encouraging andbringing value to you.
And if you found this valuable,please share it with at least
one person that you know thatmight appreciate this message.
Well, until next time, keepgrowing.
Keep learning and keep changinglives.
Your team and in your home.
This is the coach to coach podcast, episode number 33 gang
time
Music (00:21):
[inaudible].
Nate (00:24):
Hey, what's going on guys?
Welcome to the coach to coachpodcast where we believe every
kid deserves a coach that caresand every coach deserves someone
in their corner.
I'm your host Nate Sallee andthis podcast is sponsored by the
Northern Kentucky fellowship ofChristian athletes.
We have an incredible team ofdonors, of volunteers, board
(00:44):
members, supporters prayerpartners that all contribute to
this movement of God, ofNorthern Kentucky FCA, and part
of the vision behind thispodcast is to capture the
collective wisdom in NorthernKentucky greater Cincinnati and
beyond so we can all get bettertogether and really have success
not only with our teams on thefield, but to be able to
(01:06):
transform lives in the process.
I couldn't be more excited aboutthis episode as we interview
Todd Gongwer.
Todd has written one of theiconic coaching books of our era
lead for God's sake.
I remember hearing this book afew years ago.
I got through it in two sittings.
It's an incredible story about abasketball coach who is friends
(01:30):
with a business leader as well.
And Todd has some incredibleexperience in both worlds at the
business level but also incollege athletics as a
basketball coach at thecollegiate level.
He's spoken for championshipprograms in the NCAA, NBA, MLB
NFL has been featured onespn.com, Forbes Bleacher report
(01:52):
and his book, some of the peoplethat have endorsed his book, uh,
Lou Holtz said he wished he'dread it 30 years ago.
Debow Swinney said it's one ofhis all time favorites.
Urban Meyer, one of the mostpowerful books I've ever had,
John Smoltz, former MLB player,powerful life changing it truly
is an incredible, uh, messagethat he is passionate about.
(02:12):
And he gives us some insightinto some of the lessons he's
learned personally as a coach,as a leader, things that he
wished he would have knownhimself and why he's so
passionate about moving forward.
So you're going to get a lotout.
I hope you have a notepad readyand willing to take some notes.
Hey and real quick before we getstarted, if you could take just
a moment and rate this podcast.
(02:34):
If you've enjoyed previousepisodes before, it would really
help get the word out and getthe message out and be able to
help more coaches.
And I can't wait for you to hopright in.
I'm not gonna hold you backanymore.
Let's hop into our conversationwith Todd Gongwer.
All right guys.
We are here with uh, with Todd[inaudible].
He's the author of, Lead forGod's sake and he is man, just a
(02:56):
really respected leader thistime.
Just really you giving us sometime.
What I love about you is you'vekind of been in both worlds that
one of your most popular bookslead for God's sake is you've
been in the business world,you've kind of done that
organizational side, but you'realso exactly been in the hat of
most of our listeners, which arecurrent coaches, at the college
(03:18):
level.
Yeah.
Would just love to just have youhave you jump in and just share
maybe some, some big learningskind of through your, your
coaching journey specifically.
Yeah.
So it's interesting, man.
You know, I look back and youknow, hindsight's always 2020
but in our lives, I thinkespecially as followers of
Christ, you know, we, I mean Godhas orchestrated so many really
(03:39):
cool things that a lot of timeswhen we're going through and we
just, we have no idea how he'sworking on us, what he's
developing within us.
And I think obviously that's alesson for right now.
I mean, I think there is nodoubt God's doing a work in a
lot of hearts right now and alot of really cool ways with
regards to relationships andfocus and priorities and all
those things.
(03:59):
So, but when I look back on mydays in coaching and for me, and
I was really, really passionateabout sports, I was passionate
about basketball in particular,you know, had 12 years I think
as an assistant collegebasketball coach had a great
mentor, coach Mike Lightfoot,who just, you know, he was
awesome.
He was a guy that understood thebigger why and was always about
(04:20):
impacting the kids, not only intheir lives, but eternally.
So I took a ton away from justbeing a part of that program.
But even as I think back on thatquestion, I look, you know,
coaching, I got out of coachingin 2004 officially, but then
from that time my kids werestarting to grow older.
So I coached in youth sports,basketball, soccer, baseball in
(04:43):
every way, shape or form, bothmy son and daughter.
And when I look at that timefrom then, you know, even up
until about a year, year and ahalf ago, when, when you take
the college coaching experienceand those coaching experiences,
you got literally hundreds andhundreds of games, thousands of
practices.
Um, you know, I mean, and just,and just some amazing, amazing
(05:05):
experiences.
I think you're looking back forme, and especially because I
started coaching at a young age.
I was in my young twenties andit was so about climbing the
ladder, you know, pursuingsuccess and, and my title meant
everything to me.
Back then.
It was like, you call me coach,you know, and, and even when I,
when I look back on, you know,how I, I dressed my appearance,
(05:28):
I mean how I carried myself.
It's not that any of thosethings, they all matter.
You know what I mean?
They're, they're not, they'renot completely insignificant
things at all.
But at the same time, when youfast forward to today, and even
the opportunities I've had inthe last decade to work with
some of the top coaches in thecountry, some the top programs
in the country, you know,keeping things in proper
perspective is just, it reallyis everything.
(05:51):
And again, this goes back to thewhy of the book that, I mean, I
learned that through that is, isno matter how focused we can be
on our why and the right whysports has this tendency to inch
us out of that focus and then tothe competitive nature that all
that's within all of us that arein sports.
(06:11):
You know, you're not going to bea coach if you don't want to win
the games.
You know, you've got thatcompetitive and there's nothing
wrong with that.
You know, I think, and I'llprobably botch this up, but I
think the, the, the termcompetition actually in some
way, shape or form of is derivedfrom a root that had to do with
cooperation.
You know, and I think often wejust, we lose sight of that.
(06:33):
And, and again, yes.
You know, one of the things,biggest things that I took away
is how easy it is to lose sightof the fact that listen, why,
why are we really in this sport?
Are we really given theopportunity to compete?
And if it really is about justme beating you, you know, we're
setting kids up for some, forsome tough times as they even
(06:53):
move out into culture becauseyou could operate that and that
way completely in the businessworld too.
And in fact, you can be verysuccessful if that's the
obsession that becomes theobsession.
But it's a dangerous game whenit gets out of balance.
And for many of us, just like,it's easy to lose sight of the
proper perspective when we werein sports.
(07:14):
And keeping the competition inthe right, you know, place.
It becomes easy in the businessworld to to lose perspective.
And remember this is aboutrelationships.
This is about impact.
This is about making each otherthe best that we can be.
When you're a coach you have theunbelievable opportunity to
teach, to help kids move intothe next phases of their lives
(07:38):
and to again, proper perspectiveis huge.
It cannot be all about killingthe opponent and that's just a
tough balance.
I think that's probably as muchas anything kind of an
underlying theme of everythingthat I learned in sports was,
man, if you lose sight of thatperspective, everything else
starts to fall through thecracks so to speak.
(08:01):
On the outside.
Yeah, that's big.
It really stuck out not only theperspective and being connected
to your why.
It also sounded like the ongoingmaintenance of staying connected
to that why is is really key.
Because like you said, thedefault trajectory of sport is
to pull you slowly, even itmight just be an inch at a time,
(08:22):
but pull you slowly, slowly awayfrom that.
So, how have you maintained thatperspective, whether it be
family, business or coaching orwhat have been some ways that
you've fought against that, thatresistance?
Because if you're like me, I'vedefinitely fallen off.
They've taken an exit ramp attimes.
Yeah.
There, there is no doubt.
And I am, I am like, I'm acompetitor big time.
(08:46):
I mean my kids get frustratedwith me when we play ping pong.
I mean, you know, like itdoesn't matter what we're
playing.
Yeah.
I, I think, I truly believeNate.
It's, it's, it's kinda crazycause again, looking back on my
life, I'm 50 years old now and Ilooked back and I'm like, man, I
really believe God.
One of the reasons he gave methis book and this message, and
(09:06):
it's so resonated in my heartbecause he knew I needed
something to like remind meevery day.
And so like this is what I dofor a living now is help teach
that proper perspective.
Why do we really do, what's yourreal purpose?
How do you remain true to that?
And so, you know, for me a bigway to stay true to that has
been, yeah, that's a huge partof my message.
(09:28):
When you're teaching it, it'seasy to go, Todd, come on you
say.
And so like, like even, youknow, I mentioned coaching my
kids and, and for years,coaching AAU basketball, you
know, and as my kid got olderand older, my son, it was a
very, very competitiveenvironment obviously.
And um, but you know, alwaystrying to remain true to that
(09:49):
ultimate message of why we dowhat we do.
So it was teaching the messagehelped my daily routines are
really big for me.
Maintaining a proper kind ofbalance and focus in my life, my
quiet time every morning.
Um, I think that's a huge timeof just kind of centering
ourselves and reflecting and Ithink fewer and few people tend
(10:10):
to take that time.
I mean, I protect that timecrazy.
People get frustrated with mesometimes cause I won't, I don't
want to do an event at, youknow, even with coaches, like
you know, we start at 5:30 AMand so be there at six Todd and
I'm like, you know, I'm notgoing to because that's early
morning is my time.
I get up and I and I that first45 minutes to an hour, I really
(10:35):
want to ease into my day withquiet reflection and prayer with
time in the word.
I mean real time in the word,not five minutes of here's two
scriptures and a little story.
That's nothing wrong with that.
But I've really found that forme, especially the last 15 to 20
years, I mean that's changed mylife just exponentially is just
(10:59):
taking time to really read inthe word.
And you know that quiet timeprayer, reading the word.
So I think that's been a bigpart of kind of maintaining the
proper perspective cause westart every day like that.
It's reminder, Hey, these arethe things Jesus was teaching
and I just didn't see himgetting up all the time and go,
(11:19):
come on guys.
You know, like get after eachother, come on, get at you and
beat each other.
You know what I mean?
Like, like it's not, it'snothing bad in the competition,
but it wasn't his primary focusto teach them to compete against
each other.
You know, when they came outwith words of who's the greatest
and all that other stuff, what'dhe tell him?
You know what I mean?
(11:39):
I mean like, come on.
So I think really staying trueto, um, you know, his words, his
teachings, that's, that was abig part to her has been a big
part of helping me try as bestcan to stay, to stay in the
proper perspective.
Yeah, that's, that's reallygood.
And just in the same way that weas former athletes, current
(12:03):
coaches, what have you, we knowwhat it's like to have a
disciplined training program andit's so much harder.
Once I got out of, of collegiatesports, there's no team
accountability, there's nostrength coach.
It's going to be breathing downyour neck if you miss a workout,
you know?
So it's just really interestinghow we kind of have to read,
(12:25):
almost figure out how we'regoing to have that, have that
time or have that way tocontinue to take care of
ourselves physically, mentally,spiritually.
It's not going to happen byaccident.
We do.
We almost have to take time towrite up a template, you know,
workout plan, you know, I'mplaying, I've also heard
somebody say that they've placetheir time that they have with
(12:48):
the prayer with God, howeverlong it may not be as long as
you are speaking of, but they'llput it in their calendar as if
it's a and appointment, ameeting.
Like it'll be in their calendaras now.
This is like time with God forthis however long and to protect
it as if it was another meetingwith a really key person in your
life.
(13:08):
And I was like, why?
Why have I not viewed it thatway?
Has it?
Why hasn't it not laid it on mycalendar in the same way that I
would have, you know, put thison the counter, you know, key
meeting.
Yup, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Well, Hey, I would love to hear,and interesting enough on this
podcast is when I was really, itwas the catalyst for me to read
(13:30):
lead for God's sake.
I'd heard about it at like aglazier football clinic,
different things, but weinterviewed a local basketball
coach, Joel Steczynski, and hehad, he had read it and he was
reading inside out coaching.
So we were talking about that.
But I was like, man, I've got toread.
I can't be doing my job if Idon't read lead for God's sake.
Read it within just a couple ofsittings.
Really appreciated thesimplicity of it, the story,
(13:51):
even the, the, the drawing, thesimple stick figure drawing.
I'm like, man, I love thisbecause it's not like you gotta
be a doctor to be able todiscern all this stuff.
So just tell me a little, Iwould love to hear just kind of
the backstory of what was your,what was the inspiration for,
for late, for God's sake.
Yeah.
So, um, you know, it'sinteresting I shared with you
(14:14):
kind of, you've heard my, mycoaching part of the journey.
You mentioned at the beginningthough, you're like, Hey Todd,
you had a cool businessbackground.
So yeah, that was my life.
I grew up family, four boys.
Um, my grandfather had started asmall business.
My father really built thatsmall business into something
really unique in our area,especially in, and, um, and so
(14:37):
I, I, it's a food servicecompany that I was involved with
really at all facets from avery, very young age.
And you know, I tell people allthe time when you're the, the
son of the owner of the company,you know, that can be really
good or really, really bad.
And, you know, my dad was one ofthose that was like, you know,
made it made real.
Um, his point of emphasis was,you better work harder than
(14:59):
other people.
You better prove yourself.
You better be better, you betterbe an earlier, you better be
like, you know, all that stuff.
Not all of it was completelyhealthy, but you know, but for
the most part it was, it wasreally a um, you know, drove us
to work hard and so it was greatwork ethic.
Part of that was awesome.
So, but I love the businessworld and I love the
(15:20):
opportunities that I had inleadership early on.
And then eventually to take, youknow, more formal leadership
roles to have my own businessand own my own businesses over
the years.
Eventually as I'm running inthese two worlds parallel in the
nineties coaching, because itwas an NAIA school, I kept my
day job.
So now I'm working 70 80, 90hours a week in, in both of
(15:42):
those I didn't have a kid so Icould do that.
But I was also just obsessedwith studying leadership out of
necessity more than anythingelse.
So really became, you know, withthe three of those things going
on all through about 95 to 2002,three, you know, in that area
for just really began toactually, right a lot of the
(16:03):
stuff that I felt I was learningthing and combining.
And, and even then I felt Godwas kind of laying on my heart
and I had the opportunity, I hada CEO come to me and wanted me
to kind of lead a culturaltransformation in his company,
maybe a part of the senior team.
It was both feet in, you can'tdo this part time.
So I left coaching for that anddid that for three years.
(16:26):
And then we, that company wasbought by our largest
competitor, which was a publiccompany.
And I was able to serve then asa senior executive for that
organization for a few moreyears.
And so through that time, reallybringing a lot of these
philosophies more into theforefront and testing them and
really, um, to a point where Ifelt called the write.
(16:47):
It felt like God laid and titleon my heart.
And when the season was finallyright, where I knew I had the
time to write it and notsacrifice my family and all that
other stuff.
During that time, you know, as Iset out, I wanted my kids to
have something.
If anything should ever happento me and a lot of friends in
the sports world, the businessworld, I felt were pursuing
great things at the expense ofthe most important things.
(17:11):
And even, and, and honestly Ilook back on that, even friends
I say, I always say friends inthe sports world, the business
world, but even friends thatwere in ministry too, you know,
cause we can lose sight ofpriorities and perspective in
any of our pursuits.
I think that's important for usto, you know, think about all of
us.
I gotta hop in for a secondright on that.
Sorry.
When you said it doesn't matterwhat area you can, we can always
(17:33):
lose sight of that.
I used to think that it was onlyathletes that had an issue with
finding their identity in theirsport and that becoming who they
were.
And then now I've realized itis, it could be the same exact
thing, copy and paste with acoach.
You can find your as coachso-and-so and that's your,
that's your source of selfworth.
So why wouldn't you be obsessedwith maximizing that?
(17:55):
And then I found that even more,I mean other people, same thing
in the business world.
So I just, I just want to makesure, man, that is such a big
point you just made, that all ofus can find our worth and
significance from something thatisn't really worth putting all
that that much stock in.
Yeah, absolutely.
And so that, that was my, I meanagain, like I said, I shared
all, these are my own battlestoo.
(18:17):
If people ask me about thecharacters in the book, Todd,
who were those characters?
Come on, you had an, and Ialways tell people, I said,
look, first of all the coach, Isaid, it's 99% of coaches that
I've ever been around was thatcharacter because every coach
battles that at some point intheir life.
Yeah.
And I said the business personand I said, including though
myself, like I was that guy, Iwas that guy that was on one
(18:41):
hand trying to do this andsaying these things.
On the other hand, the motivesstill weren't that pure and the
business world's same way.
You know, everybody knows agrant and I tell people like all
these business people arepursuing, you see so many of
them are, are, can relate togrant but I can do.
Right.
That was me.
You know, unfortunately in bothcases I never was that highly
(19:02):
successful head coach and Inever was that, you know, multi-
million or billionaire CEO guy.
But my heart was right wherethose hearts were.
Yeah.
You know, leading up to that, Ithink that had a huge part in
and really shaping or equippingme to be able to write what God
wanted me to put on paper forthat.
So, but I, I never intended towrite it as a fiction.
(19:24):
I had it laid out step one, steptwo, step three and you know,
struggled for weeks trying towrite this thing.
Nothing came out right.
Finally just felt like God wassaying, Todd, start over the
short story and literally Nate,I mean, I had no clue how to
write fiction.
I've barely read any fiction atthat point in my life.
And I was like, okay, I'll tryit.
(19:47):
Maybe it'll be a couple chaptersor a couple pages or chapters
and then I'll, then I'll get mybrilliant commentary.
And literally when I started, itjust poured out like nothing
that I'd ever experienced.
And so, you know, honestly, um,that, you know, when I, when I
got about halfway or two thirdsof the way through, I could tell
that God was, was doingsomething way bigger than me.
(20:10):
And as I began to hand themanuscript out, I've continued
to have more and more peoplecoming back to me.
You know, people that werenervous I was handed it to and
they were like, Oh my gosh, whatare we gonna tell Todd?
There's no way Todd couldwritten a book, you know, that I
want to read.
And then all of a sudden theycome back and they're going, Oh
my gosh, Todd, you're right.
You know, like you didn't writethis like, you know, and I was
(20:32):
like, I told you, you know, soreally, really cool experience.
And even since that time, that'sbeen cool and dealing with all
the, you know, when you get, Itell people there's really, it
meets you where you are, so youget coaches from all over the
board that that come back to me.
Guys like Tony Bennett DaboSwinney those guys read the
book.
(20:52):
They love it because they,that's who they have been in our
today.
Ben, that coach in the latterstage center.
Yeah.
It's not that they didn'tbattled coach rocker at the
beginning.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Then there's other guys outthere that maybe battled it more
and it hits them and it says,Hey, you need to get back to
why.
(21:12):
You know, why do you really dowhat you do?
You say this, but do you reallycare about the kids?
Is it really about impactingthem for the kingdom?
You know, do you reallyunderstand the ultimate impact
you had the opportunity to haveon these kids' lives and hearts?
When I, when it went out andstarted getting out to others
and I started getting feedbackfrom, you know, people were
coming back.
It just took off organicallywith Lou Holtz and Jim Tressel
(21:34):
when he was still coaching.
And obviously urban Meyer was ahuge one and it just kinda, you
know, really, I know that theStoops are big fans as well
yeah, yeah.
Oh exactly.
I mean like all those guys, man,I was just finding out from
different people all over thecountry.
Like, you know, this coach hasread and he's talking about it
at this conference and this, youknow, John John Beeline is that
a Indiana high school coachesconference and he's holding the
(21:57):
book up to all the statebasketball coaches and you know,
you gotta read this.
Every coach needs to read.
So it's been awesome that a lotof these guys, I don't even
know, I've never heard, youknow, all of a sudden someone
will, you know, shoot me a textgoing, Hey, they're talking
about this at the NCAAtournament, you know, champions
breakfast or whatever, you know.
And so it's been really just areal blessing to be on the
(22:20):
journey.
It's been a God thing.
And um, you know, I tell peopleall the time, obedience has been
my number one goal through thewhole journey.
Mmm.
It's slow.
It's been slow as you know,maybe as a part of a result of
that because I haven't, youknow, tried to just push out 10
other books and do another andnothing wrong with that.
(22:43):
But my journey is I just feltlike I've been called to be
different in some of thesethings and take my time on this
and I hope and pray that thenext book, the SQL comes out
sooner than later and even aprequel.
yeah, that'd be good.
To put ourselves kind of withthat hat on of the, of the coach
inside the book.
One of the questions or one ofthe frustrations that I think
(23:06):
resonates so well as, Hey,there's no leadership on this
team.
I don't have any leaders.
You know, we need to get step upand lead and well, obviously
that's part of the title.
And so that's a big, that's ahuge question.
Why is it, do you think, becauseI've done this myself, I've
actually thought this and had towork through this.
Why is it you think that we havethis default mode of if we're
(23:26):
leading a team or a group ofpeople and we don't see
leadership in them that we kindof go to do, they don't have any
leadership versus holding up themirror and saying, what am I
currently doing that isn'tbringing that out on them?
You know, why do you thinkthat's our default mode?
Man, Nate, that's such a, that'sa love that question.
(23:48):
I think that's, I think that'sso huge.
You know, when people ask me thecore or when I sh I should say
when I've asked for the corethemes of the book and I've, and
it's funny cause I did a surveya couple of years ago and I did
it on Twitter and Facebook.
I just kind of went on and said,Hey you guys, give me two words
(24:08):
that best describe what the booktaught you or what the themes
were.
The book was and it wasobviously purpose and servant
leadership and selflessness andand love and relationships and
all of these and it was amazing.
I literally had, I don't know ofthe hundreds and hundreds of
responses I got, I think I hadover 40 some responses before I
(24:31):
actually got to the one thatspoke most specifically to what
I believe the core theme reallyis and that is self awareness.
Yeah.
What you just described is thetendency is so, I mean this is
so prevalent in our society.
Our tendency is so when we havea problem.
(24:56):
Yeah.
You know, I mean we turn the TVon.
That's all you see my fault man.
I'm so mad at these politicians.
I'm so mad at the people thatthink differently.
I'm so mad at the president andthe speaker of the house, like
everybody is getting so angry ateverybody else.
You know what it is is, isbasically what it comes down to.
(25:19):
It's basically a numbing salvethat we put on the pain of, you
know, the results that are goingon around us that, that in some
way, shape or form, we stillcaused.
But we, God forbid, we ever lookback and try to go, Hey, how did
I contribute to this problem?
Because I mean like, you know,99.9% of the time, if we're
(25:41):
involved in it in some way,especially if we're a leader, we
contributed to the problem andwe just, so, you know, such a
tough one.
Um, it's a tough one to teach.
That's one of the core things ofa lot of the workshops and
things that I do now is tryingto help leaders really develop
more of a, of a, not onlybecoming more self aware because
(26:02):
that's, uh, it's becoming moreand more of a hot topic among
coaches and stuff, but learningto act on that self-awareness.
Yeah.
You know, reconcile reconcilingthe relationships that we
screwed up with.
And that's another part.
If you, if you think back nowthe question you asked me and
you think through the wholeprocess, I don't want to give
the story away, but you knowwhat I'm talking about.
(26:22):
Like coach, there had to be thatmoment in that moment of, okay,
not only am I aware of it, wellhow am I going to act now to do
something and what are thosesteps?
Yeah, I mean that's just such a,that's a such a huge part of
leadership and our culturedoesn't, we're not doing a lot
right now in terms the broadercultural themes that our young
(26:45):
people are seeing.
We're not doing a lot to reallyteach them to look here first.
I think.
I think you guys are, I thinkFCA is because dealing with
heart stuff and dealing withforgiveness and things like
that, but unfortunately thebroader culture, we're getting
killed in that area right now.
Well, and a n eat byproduct ofconfronting the even harsh r
(27:07):
eality sometimes is, I mean youh ave, you get some, you get
some humility out of it.
You know, God says if you l iftyourself up, you'll be humbled.
A nd if you h ummed yourself, you'd be lifted up.
A nd another, the thing for methough is now that I've l ike
processed it more, and it'sstill an ongoing thing for me,
is I r ealized I actually havecontrol over my thoughts,
feelings, and actions, and I canactually do something about me,
(27:29):
whereas I can't control someoneelse.
Even if it's somebody I spend somuch time with.
I can't control my spouse ahundred percent.
I c an't control my kids ahundred percent I can't control,
u h, other student leaders orvolunteers.
But I can control who I am, whatI'm living out, my thoughts,
feelings and actions.
And t hat's, that's moreempowering.
So initially it stings and ithurts.
(27:50):
But then I'm like, Oh, but ifI'm, I have areas to grow, I can
actually do something about thatin real time.
And it's actually become veryencouraging.
But initially it kind of stinks.
Todd (28:02):
Yeah, no doubt.
That's so good.
Nate, you're, you're spot on,man.
That is, you hit the nail on thehead.
I mean, that's, we control, wecontrol in terms of changing and
effect.
We control our competing, ourcontribution, whatever
percentage of the contributionit may be, we control that
demolished you.
You hit the nail on the head,man, that's great.
Nate (28:23):
And that can still have a huge, massive impact and
influence, but it's just notgoing to be, you know, we don't,
yeah, we don't have the steeringwheel per se.
We'll have one.
One question we always love tokind of wrap up with is, uh,
there's coaches that listen thathave been at the game for 20
plus years, but we also havejust a really big heart for
that.
Coach who's just starting outthat just gotten that first
(28:43):
assistant coach position.
Or maybe they come back fromcollege or maybe they're a
senior in high school andthey're already coaching
ten-year-old tenue volleyballalready at AAU level.
You know, we see that happenmore and more.
What would be one or two thingsthat, that you would tell a
coach that's just kind ofgetting their feet wet, just
getting going that you wish youwould've known when you got your
(29:05):
start?
Todd (29:06):
Well, again, and I, this is going to sound self-serving,
I promise.
It's not.
Hopefully everybody willremember who I said is
responsible for writing thatbook and that I, I just had a
lot of hell.
I mean, I, I thank God he gaveme the opportunity to put the
pen to the paper, so to speak.
But I truly believe it was amessage that he really wanted me
(29:26):
to communicate a conduit as aconduit.
You know, that, that when, whenI hear that come back from
folks, I wish I'd read this 30years.
And especially like from LouHoltz, a lot of people, you
know, that's so meaningful and Iknow that's way beyond anything
I could ever do.
And so I look back, what is thatmean?
That that's basically because Ifeel the same way.
(29:48):
I wish I would've had the book.
I wish I'd have read it when Iwas 20 you know, because what it
did is, is what it does, I thinkis it helps us set that right
heart set right from thebeginning going, okay, what is
my real why?
Why do I really do what I do?
Am I really in touch with this?
Can I, can I get over the selfdeception component in my life?
(30:09):
Be honest.
And if it's not right, what do Ineed to do to set it straight?
Because the thing that I, I tellcoaches all the time, really is
this.
There really are a lot of folksthat are coaching for the wrong
reasons.
It's about my own affirmation,my tendency to want control of
things, my fear of dependence onanybody else.
(30:30):
I got to have the, you know, Imean there's all kinds of things
that could be impure here thatcan sneak into there from a
standpoint of insecurity andthings like that.
You know, eventually cracks inthe foundation can be seen if we
don't recognize that right fromthe beginning, go, wait a
minute, this is more about me.
I need to change that.
It needs to be about if I'm, ifI'm going to be in this and
(30:52):
influence young people, itreally needs to be about them
and what's best for them.
We need coaches and leaders thatare like that.
I think, you know, reflecting onthat, reading the book, I think
it gives you a chance to dothat.
But really taking the time toreflect on that and even maybe
even writing a purpose statementfor yourself, this is why I do
(31:13):
what I do and this is why Ireally believe God created me in
the first place.
These things need to remainaligned.
If you write those two thingsdown, it's pretty, I mean, you
know, again, it's plain andsimple.
Go back and read it everyFriday.
Okay, right.
You know, remember why you'rehere and it really isn't about
(31:33):
my advancement, my, you know, soI think that's a big one.
Um, you know, the concept ofself awareness and reminding,
you know, really, really havinga good mentor in our life that
you seek out to, to say, look,please, I'm inviting you to tell
me the insecurities that you'reseeing or the ways if I'm over
(31:56):
the top, obsessed with this orthat, you know, helped me remain
true to why I'm here on thisearth.
I think those are two really bigkeys.
Kind of kind of write it out forthe beginning and coming to
grips with it, but then having agel so to speak in your life.
I think those are, those are thethings that I didn't, I didn't,
I wasn't intentional enoughwith, I had some to some extent,
(32:19):
but not until later did I reallyrecognize that, the real
importance of that.
So yeah, those are, those arethe two big things.
Nate (32:27):
Awesome.
And it's so encouraging.
I know we're just so aligned injust with our, some of our FCA
stuff too, like when a coachcomes to the end of our
three-dimensional coaching, oneof the tests they have is to
write down theirtransformational purpose
statement.
They have to have that thingthat they can re revisit, uh, of
staying connected to their why.
And then I was going to, youhaven't heard this story yet, I
don't think, but there was asmall school here in Northern
(32:49):
Kentucky right across there onthe river, right across from,
from Cincinnati called Bellevue,a small A school.
But their girl's basketballcoach reached out to his alumni
and asked if the alumni would bewilling to buy a copy for one of
the current players of lead forGod's sake.
So they have this kind of minievent where the alumni from this
(33:11):
high school purchased a book forthe current players.
And just that, just as anencouragement to you, uh, the
impact is having right here inour area.
It's, it's been pretty cool,
Todd (33:20):
man.
I love that.
That is, that's awesome.
That's awesome to hear.
Um, that is, that's a kind ofthing that, you know, again, uh,
It's a blessing.
I felt credibly blessed andhonored to be a part of the
journey.
God has me on this thing and Ihear stuff like that and I'm
just like, man, that's soawesome.
So awesome.
(33:41):
So thanks for sharing.
Nate (33:42):
Yeah, yeah, coach Sorrell, good guy.
I'm really pumped that he, thathe did that and, and Hey, I just
want to make sure that you, uh,have some room.
How do we get, obviously ifyou're listening to this and you
don't know who Joe and grant andthese guys are from the book,
obvious.
Next step is to get a copy.
So where can we get the book?
What other things do you have onyour website or what are the
(34:02):
things are you up to these days?
Todd (34:03):
Yeah, so, um, obviously the, the books available in most
major retailers, so if you go toyour Barnes and noble
Books-A-Million most of thosestores around the country are
carrying it.
You can get it.
Obviously online.
Amazon a lot of times is thebest price.
So, um, you know, those are,those are obviously options.
They don't, one of the couple ofthings I'm really excited about,
(34:25):
especially this time at thistime, Nate is, is, you know, we,
we developed kind of a, kind ofa virtual university that is
specifically for like thecoaching staff that wants to go
through a series of smallvideos.
It helps develop values.
It helps develop the, you know,helps a coach talk about the
(34:48):
foundation, who do we reallywant to be, what does effective
leadership going to be for us?
Why do we do you?
It's a series of like there'sthree modules, it's like 30
videos and so it's a, it's avirtual training option, um, for
coaches that, um, I think duringthis time might be something
that coaches want.
Nate (35:06):
It's a great season for that.
They have more time.
And honestly, I was justthinking earlier the uh, the
budgets, the expenses thataren't happening as much as
we're mourning the lack ofspring sports and everything,
there's probably a little moremargin in the budget to maybe
invest in some of this stuff.
Todd (35:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can't go to the clinic rightnow.
Right.
This is a clinic, it's a clinicthat comes to you and you can do
with your staff and everythingcan be done.
You can do it on your phone,watch a five, six minute video.
There's a PDF, there's like a 50page workbook that has
individual questions and thenthere's group study for your
staff.
And so that's the one thing.
The other thing that I'm evenmore, and, and I'll give you
(35:43):
like a website that you can goto to find that stuff.
But the other thing that I'meven more excited about right
now is this thing calledcharacter amp that we're doing.
And it's a tool that basicallyhelps the coaches, keep
character at the top of the mindevery week.
One character attribute.
So if you have a six to set upfor like a 16 week season, every
(36:07):
Monday there's a video that thatgets, gets texts to the coaches,
the players and catch this,you'll love this.
All of the parents.
So they get the same video andthen here's where it really gets
good.
Then after the video to all ofthem, then we have a separate
one that's maybe a minute and ahalf that goes directly to the
(36:29):
coaches.
Says, okay, coaches this weekwe're talking about respect for
officials.
Now here's what I want tochallenge you with with regards
to respecting officials.
Remember what we're trying tomodel here and why we're trying
to model this with the kids isthat, and then Hey parents, this
week you saw, we're talkingabout respect reds, I want to
challenge you when you're in thestands.
Now I want to challenge you whatyou're talking about with
(36:51):
different people in differentcities.
You know, like with your kidswhen you get to the car and
you're talking about theofficials here, like what are
you teaching them?
And so we're addressing allthree components.
It's been a really, really coolthing.
Um, and so you know, we're,we're working on right now it's
being set up to where coaches ifthey want to do it in the off
season, cause a lot of coachesare going, she's Todd, we need
(37:14):
something to help us connectwith our kids.
And this is a tool that willthroughout, you know, on a
weekly, like multiple daysthroughout the week, it'll hit
them up and you're all doing thesame thing.
You come back together on a zoomcall on Friday and go, Hey,
how'd this go?
What did we talk about?
What'd you learn this week?
But you know, so some coolthings there.
(37:34):
So both of those are resourcesthat, and I hope it can be an
encouragement to coaches andathletes at this time.
Nate (37:42):
that's great.
Well, we'll put all the, all thelinks in the description of the,
of the episode, but where, wherecould a coach go to get the, the
character and the last thing youjust mentioned?
Todd (37:50):
Yeah, so the character amp is, if you just look up
character amp.com just like itsounds, cha character amp
because it's a character,amplifier.com amp.
So character amp.com.
Um, we'll get that.
The coaches one is that, is thatmy kind of my website, but it's
Kardia TG, K, R, D, T, G andthen the U virtual university.
(38:17):
And if you go into there, youcan see on both of those names
because we're doing a lot ofprograms and stuff.
Um, and I'm, I'm spacing thisright now so I'll have to get it
to you.
But there's like coupon codes sothey can get like a, a huge
discount on both of those forlistening to go into it from
this program.
So awesome.
I'll make sure to get you thatbefore so you can like put them
(38:38):
in there.
Here's the coupon code.
Yeah,
Nate (38:40):
we'll pass those along for sure.
Yeah.
Well, hi Todd.
Thanks so much.
Thanks for bringing it today.
Bringing the energy, sharingyour heart and just for all you
do for, the coaching world andbeyond, you've been a blessing.
You've, you've made an impactmore than you know, here in our
area and, yeah, this blessing toyou and your family moving
forward.
Hey, thanks.
Thank you so much, Nate.
Thank you for what you guys aredoing.
(39:01):
You and my buddies in FCA allover the country, man.
I, I, it's near and dear to myheart for obvious reasons and
man, just keep doing what you'redoing.
I just, I love it and we'resuch, such a need for it
nowadays.
No matter what sports is, sportsis gone for a period right now,
which is great.
In essence because it's, it'shelping a lot of athletes that
(39:25):
maybe wouldn't otherwise bethinking about it.
Go back to that perspective asyou know, what, what really
matters in sports more thananything else and those
relationships and the thingsthat you guys are teaching about
the heart.
That's the stuff that's stillstands.
So you're doing what you'redoing man.
Appreciate that.
Yeah.
Our playing careers all have anexpiration date and might come
soon so.
Todd (39:44):
All right, thank you.
Thanks Nate.
Music (39:55):
[inaudible]
Nate (39:55):
So there you have it guys.
Our conversation with ToddGongwer, what a great man who is
serving and is open was an openbook, really brought it.
I hope you took some notes.
A couple of things that I tookaway was not only arriving at a
healthy perspective but reallyneed to maintain that
perspective even though lifecomes at you and basically get
(40:16):
messy and you need some peoplearound you to be able to do
that.
So I hope that you'll take himup on some of the offerings he
has, whether it be the book.
There was a link in there aboutthe coaches, virtual university,
and then Todd, one 50 is yourdiscount code for the character
amp tools.
That man, that sounded prettyawesome to me to have all think
(40:38):
about having coaches, players,and parents all on the same page
and the unity that that wouldbring and working through some
of the same issuessimultaneously.
That sounded really encouraging.
Well, Hey, if you have notalready, please subscribe to
whatever app you're listeningon, your favorite streaming app
that'll help us serve you betterthat you won't miss any upcoming
(40:59):
episodes.
We're really trying to bring aquality content that's going to
be helpful and encouraging andbringing value to you.
And if you found this valuable,please share it with at least
one person that you know thatmight appreciate this message.
Well, until next time, keepgrowing.
Keep learning and keep changinglives.
Your team and in your home.
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