F*ck, Balance is BULLSH!T! with Nigel Marsh

Episode Transcript
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Dominique Hind (00:00):
Hi, I'm Dom Hind and Fuck, I'm nearly 50.

(00:03):
Actually, I'm 47 and threemonths. But who's counting? When
I first had the idea for thispodcast, the very first person I
went to was today's guest, and Ican still hear His voice. There
are so many podcasts out there.
Dom, what's your hook? Why areyou going to be any different?
That was Nigel Marsh, and ofcourse, he was right. I first

(00:27):
met Nigel many, many moons agowhen he was at Leo Burnett and
working with Justin. He tried torecruit me to head up the
digital team. And he's alwaysbeen someone who sees the bigger
picture and pushes you to thinkbraver and be bolder. Since
then, Nigel has done a millionincredible things. He's the host

(00:51):
of five of my life, a brilliantpodcast where guests share the
five items, their books, films,places, music and their
possession that defines them.
He's written three books thatare part memoir, part mirror
hilarious, honest and deeplyhuman. And I still remember
Justin last laughing. And thenthere's the Sydney skinnies.

(01:14):
Yes, Nigel is a man who helpedget that infamous Sydney nudie
swim up and running, which tellsyou a lot about his ability to
make ideas happen no matter howwild they seem. In many ways,
Nigel inspired the structure ofthis podcast, giving it a
purpose and a finish line. Thecountdown to 50 is a concept I

(01:35):
owe to him. He also was has oneof the best laughs you'll ever
hear, and I'm hoping we get tohear it a lot today, because
while he's usually the oneasking the questions today, it's
his turn to be in the hot seat,which will make him very
uncomfortable. So let's get intoit. Because fuck, I'm nearly 50,

(01:57):
and isn't it amazing?
Most people know Nigel Marsh forhis books, his legendary TED
talk on work life balance, orhis wildly successful podcast
five of my life. But what I loveabout Nigel is how much he's

(02:21):
transformed, transformed overthe years, not just in his
career, but in the way he thinksabout life, meaning and what
actually makes us happy. Today,we're talking about it all
reinvention, identity, where weget stuck in the wrong things,
and what it actually takes tocreate a life that feels good

(02:43):
and not just looks good. Nigelas the first man, welcome to
fuck. I'm nearly 50. Thank you.
Before we dive in, I do want toask you, how would you describe
yourself in the most Nigel waypossible?

Nigel Marsh (03:03):
Well, I will. I can answer that because the global
TED people asked me to send thema introduction. Put on my TED
talk, and I sent and the answerI sent them is what I would use
to answer your question, whichwas Nigel Marsh came second to
last in the 2005Bondi to Bronteocean swing. So you have spent

(03:27):
years exploring what reallymakes life meaningful.

What was your Oh, shit, I need to change
something moment.

So I would change the description slightly of
what's meaningful for me. Okay,that's going to be a maybe a
theme in this conversation,because I think the world is
full of self appointed expertscrapping on with platitudinous,
repetitious rubbish, givinggeneric advice, you know,

(04:00):
basically abusing vulnerablepeople are looking for magic
answers, and I don't want to beone of those people. So I have
got some things that I've workedon that work for me, but I, hey,
I wouldn't say that they workfor other people. I wouldn't say
they work for for women. Iwouldn't, you know, I'd say they
work for you. So disclosure, youknow, I'm not, because there are

(04:22):
some people who they make aliving, so they have to say,
I've got all the answers where Idon't yeah and I haven't Yeah.
So, so, but I think that isfascinating in itself as well,
because we do sometimes forgetthat we are in control of our
own life, and that we do lookfor all those external

(04:44):
validation points to make surethat we feel like things are
meaningful. Yeah, so it isinteresting to hear what you
think was the moment of changefor you in your life, right?
Well, that's why I know exactlyso I there's. There's a
falsehood in my in my betterknown book, fat 40 and fired

(05:04):
blood crisis, is that all Nigelchanged his life on a dime when
he lost his job, which is trueto an extent. But what isn't
true is that up until then, Iwas an unthinking advertising
executive who just wanted aPorsche, and then I lost my job,
and I suddenly became ashepherd, right? I studied
theology. I've always beenthinking the thoughts that I've

(05:27):
had, but I've never had thecourage or the circumstances to
act upon it, right? So it is anOoh, gosh, you know, there's
none so virtuous as a reformedwhore. I add up the you go, no,
no, no. I've always beenthinking, I don't like this
life. I look at everyone who'smore senior than me in my
profession, and they're alllovely. We're all God's
children, and I go, I don't wantany of your lives, yeah. Don't

(05:51):
want any of your jobs or any ofyour lives. So why am I doing
this? I'm working hard to go upthe ladder, and I and I am going
up the ladder, and I have nointerest in the ladder, right?
But, but I have children, and Ineed to pay. I haven't got any
money, so this just, yeah, justhappens to be what I do.
So, oh, my God, this is reallyconfusing. And I'm living a life

(06:12):
of sort of conflicted, becauseI, you know, it would be
irresponsible to say to my wife,Sweetheart, I'm just going to
sit at home and run the the adagency, because you go, well,
we'll do please, because who'sgonna pay the bills? So if you
lose your job? For me, yes, ifyou lose your job at the age of
40, which I did perfect timing,because I'm on a plane coming

(06:37):
back from New York having beentold, you know, my life is all
over, having relocated my familyaround the world to Australia,
and I read this brilliant quote,pause for a moment, you wretched
weaklings, and take stock ofyour miserable existence. All
right. And you go, Well, yes, ifI'm not going to do it now,
yeah, yeah. And I see this allthe time with people, ooh, I'm
going to lose the weight. I'mgoing to give out drink

(06:58):
whatever. And you meet them fiveyear, my girlfriend, you're
still having the sameconversation, which is fine.
Change is difficult. And you go,right, well, this is my moment.
So it's not the thing that mademe think, but it's the thing
that made me think, this is myopportunity. Because if I take,
you know, I could have gotanother job. If I take the other
job in the same life, I'm I'mdoing the same thing, but this

(07:23):
is the perfect it's a bit like,if you're gonna have kids, no
one says, Well, why are you awayfrom the desk for two weeks? You
go, I'm having a kid, right? Butyou go, why am I not going to
work? Well, I've lost my job.
Yeah, right. So now time youmight not take a year off and,
you know, not look for work, butso that was the moment, yeah, I
lost my job. I'd been sent toAustralia to run an ad agency,

(07:44):
and the ad agency was merged andclosed, and I was made
redundant. Your TED Talk, worklife balance, which you
mentioned, blew up globally. Didyou ever expect it to resonate
the way it did? So honestanswer, uh, yes, but that's not
if you asked, did I expect it toblow up globally? No, but you

(08:05):
asked, did I expect it toresonate? Yeah, yes, because I
wrote it

Yeah ,

and I was speaking truth, so I did Yeah, and it
did, and in the room, I knew itwent down well, because, why
wouldn't it?
Because yeah, and the wholething about work life balance, I
think, is, it is so interesting.
Can I Can I jump in?
Yeah, go on. Because I hate thephrase, yep. So I hate the
phrase. It's about constructinga life of meaning balance. It

(08:35):
suggests that work is bad,pleasure is good. It suggests
that you've got to have an equalamount. It's all bullshit. It's
all bullshit. It should be aboutreflection and constructing a
life that you find meaningful.
Yeah, for me, the thing aboutwork life balance. It just
annoys me, because I'm very muchand when we had our last
company, one of the things wasabout balance. But balance for

(08:57):
me was about passion and makingsure that your passion levels
were actually aligned. Becauseif you loved what you were
doing, yeah, it didn't seem sohard. But if you didn't like
what you were doing, it wasreally bloody tough. And so we
were very focused on thatbalance being, if you're not
enjoying what you're doing, goand we will support you in

(09:21):
going. And I think that for me,but can I say, here we go. I get
a challenge again. You'reallowed to in your firm because
it's a firm. It's not governmentdepartment. No, right. But what,
what you actually want is nonbalanced people in terms of you
want them to really prioritisebeing very, very, very
enthusiastic and passionateabout your firm. Yep, and I,
with the greater respect,couldn't give two fucks about
your firm. I'd rather shootmyself in the face than work at

(09:45):
your firm. Yeah, so I shouldn't,therefore work at your firm. You
definitely shouldn't. Yeah,that's right. So what I see some
people doing, which is, it'sawful. They talk about how.
Have a holiday or do yoga,because you'll then come back
refreshed. Yeah, yes. Hold on,so that the holiday point is to

(10:09):
come back, is work, yeah, right.
So for people to and it'sdifficult once you're trying to
make a living, you've got to dowell, yes, do. But once you get
to a certain level of success.
If you have in a certain age,you are allowed to say, I'm not
passionate about with collectiveaudience and with collective by

(10:30):
the way, or performance isbrilliant, right? But I'm not
passionate about it. I'm verythrilled that those people are
but, but I'm not, he doesn'tmean it's bad. I'm not
oppositional, just I'm notpassionate about it, right? And
you go, great. They're allowedto say, well, we'd like, you
know, moronic, ambitious 27 yearolds that are, and we don't want
61 year old people who aren't.
And you go, the world can go onand be happy, right? But it's
sort of faux. Faux balancespersonal responsibility. You go,

(10:54):
so when I left mylast big in with air Bunny's
corporate job, I said to thepeople in York, you need someone
who is interested in this, youknow, because I don't Yeah, and
I know someone who is Yeah, andhe'll take over Yeah, so we can

(11:15):
make that

Yeah. But it is because, but that comes back to
the passion thing. If thepassions are there, you just
don't do it. But here we go,unless, unless you do need to
make sure that you do put foodon the table, that you are
providing

the whole and that's the whole context of this
conversation is, if you got toattend to the realities of life,
if you've got to do that, thenyou have the different
conversation. How can I put thetable? Yeah, but there is
something I see people talkingabout being passionate the
business. And these are peoplewho been very successful in run

(11:51):
firms. You go, but mate, you flyto work in a helicopter. Yeah,
of course you're passionatebecause you and Justin own the
bloody firm, right? Oh, dipshitover here. I don't find it
working. But, you know, I mean,we pick people that you go, Oh,
I run Amazon. Think Amazon is,is, have you know, do great
work, have fun. You can not, ifyou're on the factory packing
boxes, you don't, you do Jeffwith your fifth wife, and you're

(12:14):
playing, right? So just, there'sjust too much bullshit out

there. Yeah, there is. There is, do you think
with all this bullshit and thework life balance or imbalance,
do you think we're actuallygetting any better at how we
work?

No, no, I don't think we are, for reasons that I
mentioned before is people havepeople have hijacked the the
issue like the, oh, who's awoman? Arianna Huffington, spare
me, you know? Oh, there's athird pillar is not just about
money and success. Oh, shoot me.
Now, I mean, you've justdiscovered that having made

(12:55):
yourself a multi millionaire,right? And you're gonna so
people who shouldn't be talkingabout it, yeah? Talking about it
in a way that's disingenuous,right? Yeah, certain jobs and
careers are just incompatiblewith having what I would call
balance. Yeah, this isincompatible. If you want to
work for Blackrock investmentsor whatever they've got every
right you want you to work 19hours a day and go, go, go. So

(13:16):
if that isn't what you want,don't do it. Yeah? But just
pretend they drank for the KoolAid. They go, Oh, but BlackRock,
we have sleep pots. We havedress down Fridays. We have
whatever. No Fridays people halfan hour talk about it and get
paid and write books, and Iapologise for doing a TED
speech, but I try to do thatauthentically, and which may be

(13:36):
why it's been seen by so manypeople where you go, you know,
I'm not trying to sell youanything. Yeah, right. Anything,
yeah, right, right? Is there arepeople who it's time management
tricks, yeah, yeah. So there arethe very, very, very worst
people to be talking about. Iwent to talk in America to some
horse vets, bizarrely, yes,AAEP, American Association of

(13:59):
Equine practitioners, they'vegot suicide rate for the
national average, yes, and therewas five and a half 1000 of
there in San Antonio. And Istood up and I going, if you've
hired me to give you tips andtricks to make your life easier,
I will refund my fee, becauseI'm not going to give you any. I

(14:21):
have no interest in making youmore efficient. Because if I
could make you more efficientand do your job two hours
quicker a day, what would youdo? Do more two hours. Yeah. So
what's the point? Yeah, what?
Just, what's the point? Don't doyour emails while sitting on the
loo or, you know, text your bosswhile having sex. Don't do
anything. There's no There's nopoint, right? Yep, I'm here for

(14:44):
a real conversation. Would youlike this conversation? Is any
of this making any sense?

Absolutely, absolutely is. I just love you
being the one being questioned.
I hate it

and don't I don't want anyone to take my advice. I
just don't want them to take bad

advice. You. You know what? I think the thing
from all of it is, it's justmaking sure that you are happy
with you like, that's it. Andyou know what you actually want,
like, and not worrying about theother stuff.

Yes, yes. But sometimes you might need help in
doing that, doing that. Yeah, Isaid there's something I read
which I thought just brilliant.
There's three things. It'sprogress over perfection,
consistency over intensity,fundamentals over fads. Yeah,
you go, wow, that's not a badplace to or the in terms of

(15:36):
being happy, you go, somethingto do, yeah, someone to love,
something to look forward to.
Yes. So simple stuff, whereSomerset Maure said the
important core life lessons aretoo important to be new,

yes, yeah. And so what

we're all after is, oh, is it yoga? Is it One Minute
Manager, four hour workday? Youlove language. You know, after
the latest person, is itHuberman? Is it Rogan to come
out? We pull something out oftheir backside? That's the
answer that humanity hasn'tthought of for the last 2000
years. That's the answer to makeyou happy. Yeah, it's probably
not that. Life's hard. Life'sgot challenges. Can you you

(16:17):
know, actually, maybe granny wasright, yeah, you know, be nice

to your partner, be kind, the kind smile that say
hello. That's right, yep, it isall of the old day wisdoms. And
that was the quote, thehappiness. What was it someone

to love? Yeah, that's the someone to love,
something to do, something tolook forward to. Yes, which it's
not a bad another that's not abad crater to live by. Another
one. When you get to our age,and I'm 20 years older than you,
but when i is a passionatededication to short term goals,
you go and hold on. You go,passion, the purpose of vision.

(16:56):
You go, no, no, no, no, no, no.
You go, what's in front of you?
Now I'm doing this example.
Yeah, I'll do it to the very,very best of very best of my
ability, yeah, full stop,genuinely, authentically, I'll
do the best of my ability. Fullstop. No one might watch, or it
might blow up and be fantastic,but I'll just do it for the best
of my ability. Yes. And you go,do you know what that might
actually make you happy, and itmight make it the best podcast

(17:16):
to do, as opposed to, oh, I'vegot to do it to be seen, to win
or to monetize it. And so if youMandela said you haven't got to
see the whole staircase to takethe first step, you go, if
you're lucky enough to be in thesituation that you are in, and I
would imagine many of youraudience is in, right? So this
is not the people who arestruggling to pay their

(17:37):
mortgage, right? You go, you gotto a certain stage. Ooh, you're
a partner in the law firm, butyou don't really like it. And,
la, la, la. And you go, what wasit? How about you choose
something? It's almost like areinvention. Yeah, did you know
the Japanese phrase can record?
Yeah, yes, yes, yeah, right. Yougo, what a privilege, what a
privilege to get to 50. You go,right, I'm gonna, now, I've done
all those things. I'm now gonna,you know what? I'm gonna,

(17:59):
whatever it is, set up cafe, doa podcast, whatever it is, but
I'm gonna do it really, reallywell. Yeah, not gonna expect a
round of applause. No, anyone tobe interested. See where that
goes,

but see and this is like, I mean, I think that
was your advice to me when wefirst sat down and look where
it's got. You bloody No way.
Said to you, I want to do apodcast. You're like, why
there's so many of them outthere? Why? What are you? Why
are you going to be different?
And then you said, What are youdoing? It for fame, to be an
influencer money? And I waslike, No, I actually just want

(18:33):
to give airspace to theconversations that I'm having
with my

friends. But also, I suspect, which is perfectly
fine.
You want to learn, oh, you knowwhat? And that's it. So Lydia's
advice, or her thing, the what Ishould .

Well, Lydia was my previous guest, so she said
the thing that I should try anddo before I'm 50 is become a
beginner. And so she This is mybecoming a beginner. So doing a
podcast is my becoming abeginner, because I have never
done it before.

So who is Lydia?

Oh, she's one of my good friends. So she is an
astrology background in finance,astrologer and executive coach,
and her view is about how shecan use astrology, but also to
make sure that it is from acoaching perspective, bring it
to life.

So leaving the astrology aside, yes, I like the
sound. Yeah, it is. The thingabout a beginner, I really like
that is one of the things, ifpeople ask, and I know their
circumstances, and so it's notadvice, but I just say it's what
I do, and might like to try itis to liberate yourself. It's
absolutely brilliant, right?

(19:46):
From being good, yes, right?
That's it. Or winning, yes,right? Or anyone caring, yeah,
right. So that there's thingsthat I do don't, no one watches
this. Do? They don't. There'sthings that I do don't, don't
tell anyone, right, right? WhereI'm teaching.
to draw, yes, I'm useless at it.
Yeah, yeah. I'm teaching myselfto play chess, yeah, I'm useless
at it. Yeah, right. I've got allthese things, and I get so much,
but you wouldn't know unless I'mon a podcast. You ask, yeah? You

(20:09):
get so much pleasure from it,absolutely, so many, as opposed
to top of the new businessleague in my age, yeah? Doing
it, yeah, doing it. For me,that's right. And to don't if
you're going to, especially atthe age of 50, if you're going
to limit yourself to things thatyou can be world class and or
pay your mortgage from, is goingto be, it's going to be going
back to the corporate

world. That's it. It is. And that's where,
like, the becoming a beginner.
It is. It's amazing. Like, whenyou get a comment from someone
that says, I listened to that,and I've implemented it like,
you go, Oh, someone listenedthat is amazing, like, and it
is, it's becoming a beginner,puts it takes away all the
pressure and the expectationsthat you actually have to do a

(20:51):
great job. And you can stuff up,and you can have your phone tell
you that it's double bay marketsat 12 o'clock on a Thursday,
which is what it is, but it'sgood, and I love that advice.
Okay, so I'm going to ask youabout your podcast. Five of my
life. Do you want to do a littleplug? Who was your last guest?

(21:15):
The returning Prime Minister,wasn't it? So the five, they're
the five choices that defineyour life, and you always ask
the sixth question, yes, whichwas, Who do you want to hear on
this? But if you had to pickanother category, what would you
add? I would add person,

okay, yep, and so I like the format. I'm very
passionate about the format. Andthe idea is I do an episode
every two weeks until I die,then I hand over to one of my
kids. So it becomes a thingsideways in how do people
respond to this? It can it wasnever going to change. Yep,
right? And, and I pulled thefive out of my backside, right?

(21:57):
Yeah, it could have been fiveother things. I mean, I liked
the five. I didn't want it to belike the music ones like Desert
Island Discs or Jan rose takefive or whatever. Nothing wrong
with those. But I didn't want tobe just music. So I picked five
sort of random things in yourlife. But I could have had
person in there and not place,but I didn't. So fuck it, but,
but so I know the answer is itbecause I was thinking it could

(22:19):
be six in my life, whatever,make it five so, but because
relationships are, Oh, therethey do change you. That's
right, and it would be, but Ithink I can get to that from the
other five. Yeah. I think youcan do but, but I would make it
more overt, yeah, and then theycome on and go. So why did, and
what it was just called Lydia.
Why did you choose Lydia? Wasshe changed my life because she
loved Yes, yeah. And hasanyone's choice changed your

(22:41):
perspective on something? Yeah,it's been just like you doing
this to learn. Wow. It's, Imean, we haven't got enough time
this week to talk about it, sosomeone chose a book by Frank
Ostieski called the Fiveinvitations about Dying, yes.
And this is not the, you know,the cliche, we were all going to

(23:05):
die. We only got one life drinkfrom the cup of life with both
hands. Yeah, all that stuff,which I, which, I believe,
right, but, but, but, you know,make the most of life. Well,
obviously you and we're going todie, life is fine. Now this is
learning lessons from theprocess of dying.
Yeah, okay, right, yeah. So thatyou asked me because I thought

(23:26):
about all the cliche thingswhich I think are true, yeah?
But you go, Oh, that'sinteresting. And there are lots
of lessons, but one of them iswe can practice meeting bad
slash unpleasant slash unwelcomethings with grace. Yes, wow. How
interesting. This is a bookabout learning lessons from

(23:50):
dying that rather than waituntil you're 88 and strung up to
all the machines in the hospitalwhere you come to enlightenment.
Yeah, I've got two more weeks ofthis thing dripping into me,
then I'm going to caulk it. Andthen you realise what is
important and what isn't wellwell done. You've learned to 88
right? How about you take thatgo back to 47 you 47 Yep, done a

(24:13):
good day of a 40th right? You 48Did you say? Yeah, go back to 47
and go under. Learn thoselessons now. Yeah, not then. And
one read the book, yeah? But oneof them Isn't that brilliant.
You go, Ah, so something bad'shappened. You know, government
won't let me out my lease,whatever it say. You go, gonna
handle with grace. That doesn'tmean be a pushover or no notice.

(24:35):
But I'm gonna, you know, notgonna lose my rag and be an
idiot. I'm gonna, yeah, practiceAmerica. Maybe I can get better
at that. So then the next thing,bad thing happens. That's just
one example, but I could giveyou it's been 200 episodes.
Yeah, you know, a

lot. I think when we caught up, one of the
things that I really liked washow you said that you were quite
judgmental at the start. Can youtell how.

Happy. My wife said, Whatever happens Nigel,
I've got I've completely letmyself down. Whatever. Don't say
any of the things that I'veactually said and I said, I
said, Sweetheart, don't worry.
I'm gonna I was nice aboutLydia, wasn't I? You were bloody
astrologer.

But I think you said that you were extremely
judgmental when you started, andyou have softened. This is the
circle to see you before. I

knew, Oh no, I'm terrible because I, yeah,
terrible. So it has part of me.
Reason for me doing it, yeah, ispeople would put forward. I used
to do with a media company, andthey go, great news. We've got
the lady who reads the news on,no, far off. I mean, I mean,
yeah, it wasn't over. But youknow someone, and I thinking,
what, you know, I'd rather lickthe pavement than interview that

(25:52):
stupid person, right? And yougo, No, force yourself, you
arrogant, censorious,supercilious fucker, to look for
the good in everyone. Yeah,right. Look for the good because
they everyone's got learning.
Everyone is

half an hour Interesting, yeah, and
everyone's got a story.

So I take it back about all those, all those self
help people.

No, you don't.
Is there one common regret orrealisation is year from people
over and over.

Yeah, there is. And it's, it's ironic, actually,
because the the choice thatleads to the the best stories
overall, if I'm looking backover 200 episodes ago, which is
the one of the, of the five thatworks best for people to open up
and do the spirit of what I'mtrying to do, yeah, it's the
possession, yes, right, yeah,yeah, but, but, but, as Bertrand

(26:45):
Russell said, it's thepreoccupation with possessions
above anything else. Is whatstops mankind living freely and
nobly. Right? Is everyone to aman and a woman says to me,
either on air

or off air? Oh, I'm not really a possessions.
Yeah,

so what? So in the process, I'm a big bloke in on
reflection, I think that's theanswer to the world, is just
think about things mindfully.
And right is, when they areforced to sit down, you know,
they go, Oh, my books this. Theygo, Oh, possessions. And then in
that process, no one has said,Oh, well, actually, it's my
diamond, you know, necklace, ormy or my gold Rolex. They all

(27:23):
say it's my granny's scarf or,yeah, yeah. And you go, isn't
that interesting? Then it'suniversal. Yeah. They all go, do
you know what? At the end of theday,

it's not the expensive thing. It's something
that actually has a meaningthat's interesting. So I was in
Perth last week and went to theWestern Australian Museum. And
one of the things, or one of theitems, that touched me the most
was a pink embroidered hankyfrom a lady who looked after a
soldier who had been literallyleft to die by the side of the

(27:57):
road. And he she looked afterhim, sent him with this hanky
when the Australian troops couldactually become a collective and
I literally cry just looking atthat. And you go, it's this tiny
little hanky, but it's apossession that meant so much
and had so much meaning. And,yeah, it's, it's unbelievable.
There you go. It's not theexpensive stuff, it's the stuff

(28:19):
with meaning. Okay, good. You'vespoken a lot about how we tie
much of our identity to work andbeing on that hampsville. Why do
you think so many of us fallinto that trap of tying ourself

(28:41):
to that identity.

I think it's entirely natural and what you'd
expect. And again, a bit likethe drink thing is, if you have
to, which I imagine you did, andI did, work very, very hard
without any, you know,connections to get you in. Yeah,
you get you go, if I'm going tolook after my wife and, you
know, family. I'm going to haveto succeed at something else.

(29:05):
We're going to be living on thestreets. Yeah? Blah, blah. So
you spend the vast majority ofyour waking hours in the thing
that you're doing. You spendalmost every thought there was a
pie graph. Yeah, right about it.
So it would be a bit weird ifyou didn't. So I don't think
it's it's surprising, no, right?

(29:28):
And I think it's remarkable. Ifpeople, I think what you're
doing is fabulous, if you canactually say, Oh, hold on, this
was to fit this purpose. Yeah, Iand the Bonfire of the Vanities,
no. But anyway, was about abloke who says, I'm going to be
a hedge fund manager, but I'lljust do it for two years,
sweetheart, yeah, and then we'llstop and be rich, and we'll live
like but, but you never dobecause

never stop. You never stop. Well, because
everyone's always it's like atrophy house. You got to have a
bigger house.

So, so you go, Well, yeah, that, you know, I'm
a doctor, or I'm an advertisingperson, or I'm a whatever. You
go, that's, that is. It'scompletely understandable, yeah.
So for you, then

were you tied in your identity as an ad exec, and
then when that was gone, yep.
How did that feel?

So for me, it felt great, but, but it doesn't mean
and what? Yeah, we haven't gotenough time. I'm over running. I
do follow those is you've got tobe careful with the tribes that
use swimming, yeah, right? Orjust mindful, right? So it would
be, for me, it was fantastic Ididn't count anymore amongst the

(30:35):
people that I didn't mind that Ididn't count, right, right? So
it's a really, so just been, youknow, we're, I give me some
money agency of the year, andI'm at a ball where the agency
of the year, then people wouldbe interested, because, ooh,
Leah Burnett agency, yeah,that's fine. But if you if, if I

(30:57):
went back the next year and saidto, you know, I sort of grabbed
the mic, yeah? So to the yearbefore, I'm accepting agency of
the year, and the next year,bizarrely, I've got a five
minute spot. So just to updateyou on what I'm doing, you know,
I'm learning to bilaterallybreathe in my thingy, and I'm
doing perspective on drawing.
They would rightly think Iwouldn't expect it. I would be

(31:18):
the idiot. Yeah, right, yeah, Iexpect. And want you to think
I'm yesterday's, man. I'm aloser. I don't count. Oh my god,
who's going to take up the exitnow and and just, just think I'm
as irrelevant as a rock. Yeah,right, yeah. And then, when I'm
swimming every Friday, Gordon'sbay with the crust oceans, you
know, swimming crew, bunch ofIrish backpackers, and they go,

(31:40):
oh gosh, got stung by a bluebottle. Or, how do you do that?
They'd be interested, becausewe're doing that thing. Yeah,
yeah. When, if I say them, oh,by the way, with liber agents of
the year, they go, Why sleep?

So, just so true. I think you're already

Yeah. Now, can you imagine how devastating that is,
if secretly you do mind? Yeah,right, yeah, this is way. So
again, brilliant podcast. Irecommend. How much I look at
recommend this podcast becauseyou need to do the thinking.
Because if really this is all atrick, yep, right. Actually,
Your looks are going, yourhealth's going, your careers

(32:16):
tanking. So what this is, is atrick. I'm gonna try and
reinvent it so I can still seemirrelevant. Yeah, hid people
that I'm successful, beautifuland ageing, well, yeah. And you
go, you are in for a reallytough road, because those people
will still not care for you,yeah? And they'll know, they'll
be able to see that you'remaking it up and you're
pretending. You'll look really,you'll be really miserable.
Yeah, you'll be really, reallymiserable, right? Yeah, you

(32:36):
should be without beingoppositional. Um, I think people
who in the industry I worked in,I'm thrilled for them. It's
really stupid. No, it's reallygreat, yeah, just great, yeah,
right, so, but it

was that chapter, as you said, it's your
chapter in your life, own. Andit's, yeah,

own, the fact that you know what I don't expect,
Headhunters, journalists,whatever, in your world. You
know, the moment you stop beingyou, the people who all the
people in your ecosystem, whowere in your ecosystem because
of your very successful career,will rightly move on. Oh,
absolutely, they'll go with you.

That's right.
You know what? I want them tomove on. I'm so happy for them
to move on. Just let me go andbe a beginner. Be a beginner
again. Interview Nigel. Yeah.
Interview Nigel. So if someoneis stuck in their job, what
piece of advice that you wouldgive to them? And I know you
don't love giving advice,something

that's helped you, so I get unstuck. I don't mind
if it's one on one, yeah, yeah.
What I hate is just generic, youknow, yeah, do yoga get up and
the Huberman stuff is actually,I shouldn't be negative. He's
great, yeah, it is. If they'restuck in their job, the first
advice and they hate their jobis, I'd ask them to do some

(33:58):
reflection on, is it your job,or is it your life? And this is
really important, right? Yeah,if you've got a dick wad as a
boss and you're not beingpromoted, you don't think that
paid enough money, but what? Butreally you like being a doctor
or a architect or an ad person,it's the job. I go. Well, this
is great. I'm glad you had thischat, Tiffany, you just need to

(34:20):
work for a different firm in adifferent hospital? Yeah, yeah.
So that's good to clarify that,because what I don't do is say
to people do what I want to do,because they may not want to do
what I want to do, right? No, ifthey say, actually, I it's the
life. If I move to a differenthospital, architecture firm, ad
agency, I still wouldn't likeit. I go, Okay, that's

(34:41):
interesting. Why wouldn't you?
So to do the thinking first,yes, yeah. Is it job? Then get
another one, you idiot, right?
Is it life? It's life. Okay,well, then don't do anything.
Don't do anything dramatic.
Think about the realities of whoyou've got to provide for. But
that's interesting. What. Dom'spodcast, and think about what

(35:04):
you might change, because whatsometimes you go, it's easy to
know what you're running awayfrom, yes, it's less easy to
know what you're running to,yeah. So keep earning the bucks
and not liking your life. Butdon't worry, you're on the train
with Dom. When it comes to 50,you will like,

well, something that Todd, I can still remember
him saying to me, is doubletracking, yeah, so. And you know
the double tracking thing thatif someone doesn't like their
life, yeah, it is, continue withthe job that you're on, yeah,
but make sure you're starting tolearn the next skill that you
actually want. Pearls of wisdomfrom Mr. Saint. Yes. Pearls of
wisdom, you've had some majorreinventions from advertising,

(35:42):
CEO, author, podcast host,continuing. Podcast host,
speaker, how do you know whenit's time to move on?

Right? So the things that I've done that you
mentioned have all post, dated,fat, 40 and fired? Yes, okay.
And since fat 40 and fired,I've, which drives Mrs. Marsh,
you know, mad, I've had what Icall the car headlights

(36:13):
strategy, just like the Mandela,yeah, the staircase is, if
you're driving to Canberra, thecar headlight at night. Haven't
got to light up the whole way.
No, they light up 100 metres,then another 100 metres. Yeah,
and then you finally get toKaren. So what I've done is, you
go, right now, I've been, youknow, I'm going to take a year
off and give up drink and writea book. Well, I've done that

(36:33):
now, Oh, someone's offering me ajob, so I'm going to do that.
And then, you know, someone'soffered me to do a TED speech.
So it's just do what's in frontof me as well as I can, yes,
hopefully with love andauthenticity and a desire to
serve. So it's not like I'mreally clever. I'm going to do a
I'm just going to I have Iinterviewed a book called Ashok

(36:57):
ferry, a lovely bloke on thepodcast who said something
wonderful. I'm a he's a verysuccessful author in Sri Lanka.
I'm a sailboat, and I'mcurrently becalmed. This is him
talking, not me. I'm currentlybecalmed, waiting for the next
gust of wind. Very happy. Yeah,where it is. And for me, I'm not
become because I know what I'mdoing at the moment. But if I

(37:18):
stop doing the podcast, youknow, in a month's time, which I
don't plan to, but if I did, Igo, that's completely fine. I'm
married to who I want to bemarried to. I live where I want
to this is not I don't gottickets on myself. It meant to
say I'm comfortable with all itsmessiness and imperfection. I'm
I'm allowing myself to be happy,yeah, and I'm allowing myself
not to know what was next?

(37:41):
Because I spent 25 years in avery linear way. Yeah. Nothing
wrong with that. Nothing wrongwith that. That was that change
of that life. You go, I am, Iam. Mr. Non linear. Yeah,

right. Is that how you identify?

It's not the best financial strategy.

Have you ever made a decision you deeply
regretted at the time, but nowrealise it was the best thing
that could have happened.

No, I mean, things have happened to me that I
deeply regretted, that theyhappened to me. Yeah, that
turned out to be the best thing.
Yes, losing my job. Yes, youknow that changed my life. Yeah,
right, but that wasn't adecision, no, and I didn't
regret making the decision Imade to do, but so, but I
regretted it happening to me.
Yes. I mean, bizarrely, it's notthe best thing at Avenue, but I

(38:30):
really regretted agreeing to dothe TED speech. Oh, really,
yeah, so I was, and this wasbefore Ted. I mean, now it's
been, you know, it's the blandbrand is so diluted. There's

yeah, there's

everything left.
People, you know, will nothingwrong with one another, but you
know it's yeah, there'severywhere, yeah. So back then
it was, it was quite a big deal.
I'd never heard of it. I gotasked to do it, and so I said,
Can you pay me? Yeah? Because Ithought we just got another
speaking. Yeah, I mean, well,why would I do that? Right? And

(39:03):
they went, Oh, please, please. Iknow the bloke, so I sort of as
a favour, said, I mean, allright, yeah, right, right,
anyway. And then I looked atTED, and back then, you know it
was, it was Bill Clinton, BillYes, so I called him up. There's
a bloke called nice bloke calledRemo, and said, mate, you've got

(39:25):
the wrong man. You know, I mean,it's, I haven't, you know,
changed humanity by inventingthe iPhone or whatever you just
this is, this is wrong for thebrand. Yeah, you've got me
anywhere near it. So I tried topull out just good mate. Why

(39:46):
would anyone listen to me? ForChrist's sake, I haven't got any
advice. And anyway, I really,really regretted having
initially, because I don't wantto break it. Yeah, let him down.
So I really, really. Regrettedhaving agreed to doing it, yeah.
And to this day, every week, Iget at least two emails from

(40:08):
countries I have never been tosaying, you know, it changed my
life. We have it, you know, it'sbeen taught in our university
or, you know, wow. And you go,I've had, yeah, I've been around
the world doing speeches off theback of it, you know, so it's
not the best thing ever happenedto me, but

it was, but it was, yeah, that's interesting.
Imagine if you didn't,

yeah. Well, no, yeah. And you know who said I
should do it, Mrs. Marsh. Oh,yeah, but I've written that out
of history. No, no. I alwayswanted. It

was all me, always me. What's the one thing
you worried about in your 40sthat you now realise is
completely irrelevant.

So I used to, and it served me well, to an extent,
I used to set entirely arbitrarygoals, right? Okay, so the thing
itself wouldn't be a bad thing.
It could be health, yes, itcould be money, it could be

(41:07):
career progression. It could berunning, yeah, right. God, this
great question, so I would goright, so I need to be better at
Right, right, yeah. And then I'dsaid, pull out of my ass. A
arbitrary goal, absolute thing,right? So I right. I need to be

(41:27):
fit aside. Need to run a 5k in30 minutes. Yeah, right, right.
And then you'd write a SMARTgoal, yeah, right. And then
exactly. And then I'd run it in30 minutes, in one second. I
think it's a disaster. Yeah. Wego, hold on. You just didn't,
you couldn't get off the couchbefore or I go, I need to, oh, I
don't know. I need to be chiefexecutive of the ad agency by

(41:49):
1999 and you go, well, they justsay 2000 we'll give it to you in
February. 2000 right? So justtake the stick out your ass.
Yeah. And back to the thing Isaid about progress over
perfection, yes, yeah,consistency of intensity and
fundamentals over fads. It's,it's in that area where it's so
think of now with the benefit. Imean, I'm, I'm fuck. I'm nearly

(42:11):
70. It is, is think of the areathat you rightly are thinking
about. You go, I'm a fat porker,and I'd like to be less fat,
right? So I've got to be a sizethree by June so I can get into
my bikini. You go, Well, maybeTracy. Well, maybe I want to get
healthier, yes. And I want tofeel better, fitter and happier

(42:31):
in my body, so I'm going to moveon the progress train. And so I
think, Oh, sick is like a ZenBuddhist thing. It's, be open to
the outcome, not attached to theoutcome. Yes. And I go, not
outcome, but be open to theidiotic, random absolute goal,
not attached to it. So you go,do you know what I said? I

(42:53):
wanted to be nine stone threepounds, and I'm nine stone four
pounds. Well, given that I usedto be 22 stone, right? I'm still
allowed to celebrate thevictory, yeah, yeah. Answer that
question, yeah. Am I answeringany of your questions? Okay,

you are answering them. Is there
anything you used to care deeplyabout that you've let go? Yeah?
Drink, yeah.

So my whole life. I mean, not my whole life based
around drink, everything,socialising, work, everything,
drink,

and yeah, do you feel? And I know there are some
annoyances when you are stillasked for a drink, even though
they've known that you do notdrink. But do you feel in
yourself better about it noteven being there anymore.

Yeah, 100% Yeah.
It's just a thing of utter joyin my life. I'm not voting for
anyone else to do it. Mrs. Marshdrinks like a fish, and that's
fantastic. I'll make her a ginand tonic. She could you make me
right? And she'll go, oh, thathits the spot. I go, could you
make me another I go, All right,

what's the one thing that only gets better with
age?

Oh, God again. Edit this out, family. Yeah, family
is just, oh, just fantastic.
It's just an utter joy. And myfamily, I mean I love my
brother, I love my parents pastnow, but I mean my, my, my crew,
yeah, your crew, your immediatefamily. My immediate family is
just a source of constant,ecstatic, orgasmic delight for

(44:38):
me that I don't tell anybodywe're on a family messenger. And
it's that makes me the happiestman in the world to see the
banter going back and forth andthe, you know, just lovely. It's
less Mother's Day on Sunday,we're all going to go out. But
they still, you know, want to doit. Wants to do it. And we'll do
when does this go out? Don'tspoil the surprise. We got
surprised. You know, they'vethought of a surprise for cow.

(44:58):
Yeah, and we're all going to betogether. He goes, it's just
joy. Now, there are some people,well, he this is to the heart of
your and there's only for me,some people who bored senseless.
You know my and this is notgendered, I just happen to be a
man. So it's man who would go,my wife bores me. My children
born. Yeah, I don't want to goto Les Miz with my four

(45:19):
children, I'd rather be chuckingdown the beers with the blokes
or whatever. Yeah, that's fine.
Well, then chuck that, you know.
But for me family, it's justyeah, yeah. Thing of joy

that is that's amazing. And you have been
married for decades, have raisedfour kids and managed to juggle
it all. What's one piece ofrelationship advice?

If, if I were to be asked Yeah, and you did, yes, I
would prioritise my relationshipwith Kate above anything else,
yep, above career, yes, abovefriends, yeah, above location.
If she said sweetheart, I amgonna be miserably unhappy if we
don't move to the north ofScotland. I mean, I'd have a

(46:05):
chat to her about it. I don'twanna then I moved to the north
Scotland. Yeah, right, becausethen I'd factor the same so
actually do the work to reflect.
Are you bending over backwardsto prove to everybody, including
yourself, that your relationshipisn't important to you? Well,
then guess what? Yourrelationship might stink. Or are
you actually prioritising? Itdoesn't mean that you're less of

(46:26):
a woman or less of a man ifyou've chosen to prioritise your
life partner, yeah. Sake, right.
Anyway. And the third thing islearn to listen properly.
Listen. There you go. Lifetimechallenge, listen

and listen to listen not to listen to respond.
Best Life lessons your kids havetaught you.

Oh, my God, there's so many. But are those are so
gorgeous that the one that'sembarrassing doesn't reflect
well on me, but I was whine.
Whining about having to do God,this is what a asset. I was
whining. I was stressed abouthaving to go to America to do a
speech, and I apparently utteredthe words, I've got to go to New

(47:16):
York. And Alex said, Dad, youget to go to, yeah, yeah. And I
sort of thought, you go, holdon. I mean, check yourself.
Yeah, right. I mean, just checkI'm turning 50. I've got
wrinkles. I don't know what todo. You go, yeah, come on.
You've, you know, you've gotyour health. You survive. You

(47:37):
survive. You're here, you've gota nice family, you're this and
that so that there you get toaddress the challenges that
you're doing the series for whata wonderful privilege, you know,
honour, the opportunity, ratherthan, oh gosh, it's really
difficult. You know, the 21 yearold Victoria secrets model has
got perkier boobs than me, youknow, which is the level that

(47:58):
some people are wrong. I mean,you go, you're not going to put
this

to where I'm definitely putting that one,
particularly your VictoriaSecret Pookie boobs. You once
said real friendships and evenrelationships are built on
effort, honesty and sharedexperiences. How do you make
sure you are investing in theright people? I for,

hmm. So I think investing might not be the right
word. I know, yeah, but justbecause, because sometimes that,
that sort of suggests maybe youwant something back. Okay, yeah,
I take that, yeah. So I wouldsay, when you get to the age
that you're talking about andyou're thinking about reflecting

(48:44):
and maybe pivoting, it's naturalthat lots of your friends who
are genuinely your friends andare lovely people, have become
your friends because of whatwhat you Yes, what you do,
perfectly, lovely, right? So youmet them at the school gate. You
met them at the office kettle,and you met them commuting

(49:06):
whatever you meet them because,because the tribes that you're
in, yep, right? And that'scompletely fine when you get to
the age we're talking about. Isit can be useful to go, do you
know what I'm going to turn thetelescope around and I think
about the things that I value,yes, and the things that
interest me, but then being anarcissist, yeah, you go, do you

(49:27):
know what I like doing parkrunon Saturday, right? And that's
not gonna be interesting to thead executive headhunter, but I
like doing parkrun on Saturday,so I will do parkrun on
Saturday, and Justin does Parkeron Saturday. So maybe Justin and
I can be pals, because we bothseem to like meeting and

(49:47):
volunteering and running on aSaturday, as opposed to I've
retired from the ad industry, soI'm going to be friends with, I
mean, people who, genuinely I'mfriends with, but, but, but they
are interested in. In the gunreport or can or whatever, which
is great that they are, but,but, but follow your interests
and your values. And so justhave a think about that. Maybe.

(50:08):
Why are my friends with so andso? Well, we used to bring up
children through the thing,yeah? And doesn't mean that he
or she isn't a bad Don't beoppositional, yeah, but don't be
oppositional. They're they'relovely, but actually she's
interested in things that I'mnot, or her values

aren't my values. Well, they've changed.
And so that's right, you'verealigned, yeah,

and I think just be gracious and nice to everyone,
but then maybe to invest, investin being friends with Justin,
because he seems to like

the things that you like. Yeah, yep, yep. So
your laugh. And Justin and Ialways talk about your
infectious laugh. Has thatalways been your superpower in a
room? Because it always tends tobreak the ice and get people out

(50:59):
of their stiffness.

Oh, gosh, oh, I don't I love that from
embarrassed, I don't know. SoI've always, I don't know why,
but had a sort of a sense thatwe are ridiculous meat robots
over complex organisms primarilydesigned to convert wine into

(51:25):
urine. And if you think that,it's hard to take things too,
too seriously, you know, talkingabout their latest company
vision or profits or whatever,as you go, I think you sit down
to do a dump, just like everyoneelse. You're, I think actually
you're, you've got a ridiculousbrain in a in a skull, so I

(51:50):
don't know. I've, I've got afriend who listened to my
podcast and said, You You laughlike basil brush, which is a my
son were called a complice Salt,

right? Yeah.

Is that an insult, or is it a compliment? I think
it's a compliment. So I don'tknow if

you could put one message on a billboard, yep,
for everyone over 40 to see.
What would it be?

It would be the quote that I started my TED
speech. Yes. Pause for a moment,you wretched weaklings, and take
stock of your miserableexistence. I think it's just,
and there's a Waterloo Stationin London, there's a piece of
graffiti. It says, you're allgoing to die, and like half a
million people, you know, yousee it every morning, right? But

(52:33):
it just pretend. It said whatI've just said, yeah, it's
actually quite good advice.
Yeah, always, never think, andyou not when you're 27 and
you've got, you're struggling tomeet yourselves, yeah? But you
know, when you it's this, whatyou're doing with this is pause
and have a think. I'm going tocommit yourself to anything.
Just don't be decide. Don'tslide into your 50s. Yeah, yeah,

(52:54):
right. Your 50s should be, forme, they'll be the best decade
of my life, the best I keep,without any shadow of, any
shadow of doubt, they were headand shoulders above every other
decade on the criteria that I'vegot. Yes, yeah, by far and away,
the least successful on theothers, right? But, but
genuinely with they were themost successful decade of my

(53:16):
life, and I intend my 60s to befar more successful, yeah, but
if I was going because I've wona titanium line, I forget it. I
mean, yeah, it doesn't

matter. That doesn't actually matter. And
you've lived many versions ordifferent versions of you and
your life, when you look back,what's the one thing that stayed
constant

again? This is going to upset Mrs. Marsh. So
the philosophy of enoughness andwow, I can't recommend it enough
if you are wired like me, andmost people aren't. You know,
again, I'm not on air to giveadvice you could you ask just
for a chat. So I'm having achat. Leave the advice to Lydia.

(54:00):
She sounds much better is when Ido this. Is this? So I'll give
this advice so people can not

follow it. Okay, yeah, good. So what not to do?
By Nigel mush,

although it's what I do, yeah? So if I do, if I
write a book, yes, and it's fat,45 is the best selling, locally
authored book of 2005 inAustralia, right? Everyone
around me understandably,maximise it, leverage it. I run
in the opposite direction, yeah,if I do a TED speech, it's seen

(54:33):
by 6 million people, everyonearound me goes, maximise it,
yep, I never talk about worldabundance ever again on TED, I
refuse. Yeah, if I do a podcast,I've got the prime minister on.
We get podcast of the year. Inour first year, everyone goes,
Matt, I run in the oppositedirection, yeah. So with
everything, with my house, withmy car, with my job, with

(54:54):
everything I just want. I. Tolovingly do it to the best of my
ability, hopefully contribute alittle bit full stop. And I mean
other people who are far moresuccessful and far richer than I
will ever ever be, who go, Yeah,but you're not sweating any of
those assets. And I go, No, I'mabsolutely not. So when I if you

(55:18):
were to, if you were to look atmy advertising career, you go,
what are you thinking? Youragency of the year twice in a
row you've whatever it was.
You've done Earth Hour one,McDonald This is New York. Here
we come and go. Bronte beach.
Here we come. So for me, that'sbeen the constant. Yeah? Now I

(55:42):
would describe it as philosophyof enoughness. Kate would
describe it as a moronic loserwho keeps on running away from
success, right? Yeah, but Ithink that has been a constant.
I just don't, just don't want tomaximise stuff. It doesn't mean
I would mind if it naturallyhappened. Yeah, and I'll bend
myself into my breath, and I'mnot going to do things that I

(56:02):
think are dishonest, whichsometimes maxing it means, yeah,

selling yourself, yeah. What's the one
book, film or piece of musicthat sums up this phase of your
life?

Now that's a weird question to ask me. I know
because,

and you don't normally don't answer anything
like that? Well,

no, I know, but big, because for me, it sets up
my life is I've written threedecade books that sum up my
life. So for what sums up thislife, it will be smart, stupid
and 60, because I've written abook summing up my life, and
inevitably go, what summed upyour 40s? It would be fat. 40
and five. What sums up your 50swould be 50 and fired up. So I
am that. How vain do you have tobe to write three
autobiographies. Can you say

you don't like giving advice you've written
three books? Yeah.

Well, do you know someone thought to me and for
me, and it kills me when they'rein self help sections, it is
they are me, self indulgentlycrapping on about me. And if you
find something useful, I'mpleased. Yeah, but they aren't.
What was it the Magic of NotGiving a Fuck all those books? I
can't, I can't bring myself todo that, but all three of those

(57:09):
books, I could have changed themslightly. Yeah, and said 10 Tips
to be as clever as me. Yeah, andI can't do it. I they aren't
actually advice. They're justhopefully humorous

books. Yeah, I still can remember just Justin,
just absolutely falling off thechair. Fat, five and 40. It was
hilarious. Okay, Nigel, thankyou for sitting in the
uncomfortable seat that youdidn't want to sit in. It's been
hell. And thank you for beingthe first male guest on the
podcast, and also the firstperson that I told about doing

(57:43):
the podcast, which was myadvice, which was then shot
down, like, go and have a goodhard look at yourself and today,
definitely was exactly what Ihoped it would be, deep, funny,
honest, and also around whatactually does matter in life.
And I do think it does come backto reflection, making sure it's

(58:07):
right for you, and just doingthat, thinking, if there's one
thing I'm taking away from it isthat reinvention never stops,
and you can pivot when you needto, and you should be
continually reflecting on that.
And there's no final version ofourselves. We are just or we
just keep evolving, laughing andtrying new things. And that, in

(58:31):
itself, is pretty amazing. Sobefore we wrap up,

you're a very nice meat robot. Yeah,

one final question for you. If I could try
one thing before I hit 50 thatwould push me, take me out of my
comfort zone, stretch me. Whatwould it be? I'm going to

give you two. Oh, okay, great. So the first one,
the Sydney skinny, the secondthing, and I mean this
seriously, yes, is you dosomething that contributes to
society, right? You don't getanything from it, yeah? So I
don't know, you volunteer atWesley Chapel or whatever, and I

(59:15):
don't mean sleep out for CEO,yeah, post it on Instagram,
right? No, nothing wrong withthat. Yeah, that's being
negative. But I'm saying youchoose something that you
haven't done before that ispurely service, right? Yeah, and
this is the kicker, you do nottell anyone, yeah, anybody.

I like both of them, good, great. And I'm very
happy not to share it on Insta,yeah, no, no, no. It's not just
Insta, no. And not tell anyone,anyone from one person, just
Justin Okay. Thank you, Nigel,thank you for sharing your
wisdom, your stories and yourlegendary Laugh with us today,

(59:55):
even though I think it's asuperpower and you get
embarrassed by it. I loved it.
Second. And if you love theconversation, go check out
Nigel's best award winningpodcast five of my life. I'll
link everything in the shownotes. And if you enjoyed this
episode, hit subscribe. Share itwith your friends and chat with
me on socials. But don't tell mewhat you're doing behind closed

(01:00:17):
doors and volunteering. Andbefore you go take on Nigel's,
try this before you 50challenge. Hey, yeah, I actually
the Sydney skinny. I'll makesure that I put that on there.
Where is it? At cobras beach.
Okay, middle head. Yeah. Okay,great. Give it a go, see how it
challenges you, and let me know.
Because fuck, we're nearly 50and isn't amazing. Oh.

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