F*ck, I wasn’t ready, but I am now! with Tracy Hall

Episode Transcript
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Dominique Hind (00:00):
Hi, I'm Dom hind and fuck. I'm nearly 50. Well,

(00:03):
actually, I'm 47 and two months,and I have started the
countdown. Some people gothrough things that sound too
wild to be true. Tracy Hall isone of those people. Years ago,
she was at the top of her game,killing it in marketing,
bringing bold ideas to life,which is where our paths first
crossed. She was working withGoDaddy on The now iconic ALF

(00:26):
Stewart flaming hot saucecampaign. But behind the scenes,
she was living through somethingthat would stop anyone in their
tracks. She was in love. She wasplanning a future, and then she
found out the man she trustedwas a con artist. Her entire
world was shattered the podcast,who the hell is Hamish told the

(00:46):
story Justin was obsessed withit. He devoured the podcast,
read Tracy's book while we'reaway, and got me hooked on both.
And ever since, has been pushingfor her voice to be heard, to
make sure that empowerment ofwomen and their financial
freedom is actually at thecentre. I've just finished

(01:08):
listening to Tracy's book Thelast victim, and I was honestly
amazed. What struck me most washer resilience, her grit, to sit
in the absolute shitstorm ofbetrayal and then pick herself
up and start planning herfuture. What she focused on was,
what's next? How do I rebuild?
How do I set myself up for abetter life? The way she did,

(01:31):
that was so powerful. And thething I loved about the book, it
was so real, so brutally honest.
Nothing was sugar coated,nothing was left out. And the
line that absolutely floored me,and that I keep thinking about,
was when Tracy said that shewrote the book from a scar and

(01:51):
not an open wound. That ideaalone has changed how I think
about reacting to things, let itsettle, let it heal, and then
speak with strength, not pain.
And honestly, after reading it,it feels like I've known Tracy
forever, her voice, herperspective, her strength, it's
all there on the page. And nowhere she is turning 50 this

(02:14):
year, with her 50 things to dobefore 50, going six month
alcohol free and embracing thenext chapter with serious
intention. Let's get into itbecause fuck, I'm nearly 50, and
this is a conversation aboutowning your story, rebuilding
your life and choosing to thriveyou.

(02:46):
Tracy Hall's story is one ofthose that stays with you. She
fell in love with someone whoturned out to be a serial con
man. Everything she thought wastrue was a lie. But instead of
staying stuck in the betrayal,she did something brave. She
rebuilt. And Tracy, I justfinished your book, the last

(03:07):
victim. And I have to say, itabsolutely blew me away,
absolutely the honesty, thegrit, the clarity, what stuck
with me, me most was how quicklyyou sat in the pain and then
started planning. It wasabsolutely amazing, and the line
that hit me in the heart waswhen you wrote the book from a

(03:30):
scar and not an open wound. It'ssuch a powerful reminder to let
things settle before we act orspeak. It's changed how I think
about my own responses to bigemotions, and it's just helped
me, I think definitely bebetter. You've now turned that

(03:53):
pain into purpose, helping otherwomen learn to trust themselves,
protect their futures and notignore the red flags. And as you
turn 50 this year, you'reembracing it with intention,
with your 50 things to do, or 50things before 50 list, and six

(04:15):
months alcohol free, you're notjust surviving. You're setting
the tone for what thriving lookslike. So today we're diving into
it, all resilience, financialliteracy, red flags, intention
and reinvention and what itmeans to turn 50 on your terms.
Tracy, welcome to fuck. I'mnearly 50.

Unknown (04:36):
What an intro.

Wow. You deserve it. It's amazing, before we get
into it, though, how would youintroduce yourself in the most
honest and raw Tracy waypossible?

Tracy Hall (04:50):
Oh my gosh. Um. My name is Tracy Hall. I am a ex
corporate marketing executiveaddict. Uh huh. Recovering, and
these days, I'm an author, I'm apublic speaker and I'm an
advocate. That's what I do. WhoI am is. I'm a single mom. I

(05:13):
live on the beaches. I love theocean. I have a bit of a potty
mouth answer, title and yeah, Ijust, I just think I'm a pretty
ordinary person that's had a lotof stuff happen.

Yeah, okay, and I think you are. You may think
that you are ordinary, but theway that you have responded is
definitely not been ordinary,yeah, because most people would
have just sat and you didn't.

Tracy Hall (05:44):
I did. I did for a while. Yeah, there are a few
years where it was touch and go,

yes, and you know what? Understandably so,
yeah, like, I, I've tried to putmyself in your position so many
times, and even just trying toYeah, feel what it was like and
yeah, for you to be here, Istill think is, yeah, it's
amazing. Like, absolutelyamazing. Appreciate that. Um,

(06:14):
okay, so you've lived throughsomething so confronting. And in
the book, you start mapping yourrebuild quickly, or, you know,
you don't just sit in it andjust wallow, you know you have
to do something. Yeah, whathelped you shift from sitting in

(06:35):
the pain to focusing on thefuture? And was there a moment
that sparked that change foryou?

Tracy Hall (06:47):
Yes, there was a moment, but I think it's also
important to say that there wasa really long, messy middle,
yeah, and I don't think you getto go through things like this
and come out the other sidereally quickly and really
positively. And actually, youknow, I sometimes worry about

(07:10):
the narrative that is presentedoften when you see people who
have experienced adversity ortrauma or whatever, and you see
the end point, and you see therebuild, and you see the
strength, and you see thepositivity. Quite often we don't
see the bit immediately after,or that middle bit, which is

(07:31):
messy and uncomfortable andpainful and confusing and, you
know, and for me, that went onfor a few years. So yes, the
book we had to, you know,otherwise, it would have been
pretty boring. There would havebeen like, 15 chapters. I woke
up and I cried, I went to work,I went to bed and I cried, you

(07:52):
know, there was a lot of that,and there was a lot of soul
searching and a lot of a lot ofwork that happened during that
time to get me to a place whereI could actually see a little
glimmer of light, yeah? So Ithink it's important to say that
I don't think we have thesemoments in life and then
suddenly we're in a post, posttraumatic growth, you know,

(08:15):
inspiration moment like it justdoesn't happen like that. And if
it does, I call

bullshit. Yeah, and I don't think you're human
if you can't sit in that pain,no. And you know the pain, the
definite like the the time thatyou're in the pain, it depends
on you as a person as well, andeveryone's pain or the messy
middle, yeah, is different. Itis.

Tracy Hall (08:37):
And you don't, you don't get to learn the lessons,
unless you sit there, if youdon't do the work, if you don't
explore the feelings, if youdon't go to that place, you
don't rise out of it, it becomesa very superficial, unauthentic,
healing journey, and everyonecan see that. And you don't

(08:58):
respond well in life. If you dothat, you can cover it up for a
while, but you don't respondwell. So I think it's important
to say that. I think it's alsoimportant to say that there were
times I felt like I didn't havea choice, like it was survival.
For me, I was 42 a singlemother, almost solo parenting a

(09:21):
six year old. I had a huge jobthat I was so scared of losing.
It was my only financiallifeline. I had nothing in my
bank accounts. I had noemergency fund. I had no
superannuation. I had noinvestment portfolio. I had no
shares left. I had nothing. Ihad a monthly income, and I had
all the pressure on me at hometo provide for my child and

(09:42):
myself. And so there was a wholelot of survival in there. That
was just, I just have to go towork, because if I don't work,
I'm now, I'm really screwed.
Yeah, I am so fucked if I don'thave an income. And, you know,
so there was a lot of. You know,there was a lot of external
factor that got me going, andthen it was sort of a few years

(10:05):
later I had had sort of gonethrough that pain and that work
and gone, okay, I'm 42 or bythis stage, I was probably 4344
how, like, I have a whole otherhalf of my life, yeah, live,
yeah. What is the second halfgonna look like? And I'd already

(10:25):
actually been through that samethought process when I left my
husband and got divorced,because it wasn't the way I
wanted it to work out. Itwasn't, it wasn't the ending I
wanted. I wanted more children.
I wanted a long term marriage,like what my parents had like. I
wanted that life, that nuclearfamily, and didn't work out like

(10:47):
that. And I turned 40, and I wasseparated from my husband, and
and I thought to myself, What doI want the second half of my
life to look like? And thattakes a lot of thought and
introspection and work it does.
And so I did that once, and thenthis happened, and then a couple
years later, had to do it again,like hopefully I've still got
another half to me. Was

it different?
Was the your first iteration ofthe second half different to
your iteration now?

Tracy Hall (11:19):
Uh, yes, of course, because I hadn't had that
experience. Yeah, and what Itake into this iteration is the
experience of Hamish, not justthe experience of my divorce,
but I also take the experienceof all the things that have
happened to me. And I think atany point in life, whatever,
whatever place we're at thatforms our reality. And that is,

(11:41):
that is the viewpoint we goahead with, because of all the
things inside us. Yeah, I'mprobably more realistic now.
Yeah, I Yes, it is different,but I think it's, it's, it has
more strength now, becauseBecause of this, yeah, yeah,

(12:02):
yeah,

I think, and I do think it is. It's so true
that people, if they don't dothe work and they distract
themselves, yeah, there comes atime later where it catches up.

Unknown (12:13):
Oh, it always bites you now, and it absolutely

and but that that if you have it like at that
point, that's when it explodes.
It's not just a little thingthat is a like, it's monumental,
yeah,

Tracy Hall (12:26):
and there's no, there's no right, right time,
you know, if, if people need todo what they need to do. So, for
example, I just had to get onwith life like I had so many
practical realities I had totake care of. And in some ways,
they were a great distraction.
Yeah, you know, children are awonderful distraction. Work is a
great distraction. It kept mefocused. It kept me driven. It

(12:47):
kept me outside of my own headand my own feelings. And for a
while, that distraction wasgreat. At some point in time you
have to face the music, andthere is no right time to do
that. It's whatever the righttime is for you. And for me,
that was probably a couple ofyears after. And to be fair,
Dominique, it's still ongoing.

(13:10):
Oh yeah, you know, it's still,it's still something that I
think, you know, I've reallychecked myself, yeah, from time
to time, yeah,

and yeah, I've and in trying to put myself in
your shoes, I think you knowwhen you get the quiet moments
and when you know that's whypodcasts and audio books are so
great, because at times when youneed them, it's not you in your
head, it's someone else's voicein your head. And you know those

(13:39):
quiet moments your brain willjust go there,

Tracy Hall (13:43):
yeah, yeah. And that's what happened with me.
Like I was so busy during theday. You know, work was really
demanding. Single parenting achild is demanding. Everything
was taking my time and my mindand my energy, and it was the
quiet moment in the morning whenI woke up and I remembered what

(14:03):
had happened to me that us, oh,my god, okay. And then those
quiet moments at night when I'mtrying to sleep, they were the
moments that hit me that I hadto really work, work with, yeah,
work around, or, you know, workthrough

and with the because I think the going to bed
at night and, you know, headhits a pillow, I'm exhausted. I
really need to go to sleep, butmy mind decides to wake up. Did
you put like a meditation orsomething on to try and calm the
mind? I

Tracy Hall (14:35):
tried everything.
I've tried everything, and mostof them didn't work at the time,
because my mind was just, I wasin such a place of fear and
anxiety and depression andworry, and, you know, there was
so much going on, and I hadprevious to that been, you know,
a chronic Insomniac for about 15or. 20 years, wow. So there had

(14:59):
been a long, a long kind ofhistory of really struggling
with sleep. So this didn't help.
This was not, this was not theSaviour I was looking for. Even
though I was absolutelyexhausted, I was so tired, I was
so spent, I was busted. And yet,you know, then the brain kicks

(15:22):
in when you're not distracted.
And then I'm, you know, and ofcourse, I'm going down the
rabbit hole of the internettrying to find out everything
there is to find out about thisman. And you know what had
happened. And because at thispoint, there were no answers,
because we were still goingthrough the criminal case, and
the police wouldn't really talkto me because they couldn't, and
the financial institutionscould, you know, I had no

(15:45):
answers. And it wasn't until thepodcast happened two years
later, which was amazing. Yeah,so good. Who the hell the same
issues the podcast by theAustralian and that's where the
pennies started to drop. And Icould put the story, you know,
the jigsaw pieces of the storyin the right order, which helped
my mind rest, yeah? So that wasa moment of instrumental healing

(16:09):
for me. But you know that thattook a few years. So, yeah,
sleep. Sleep was like an elusivelover for me, for many it had,
had been for many, many years.
Yeah, I

Yes, I can imagine. I think the hardest
thing is, is when you want theanswers and you can't get them
like that just and it's hard tolet go of

Tracy Hall (16:33):
that. It is because our brains don't like unfinished
stories. No, we actuallypsychologically can't rest until
we have a story, a picture, theway it fits together, that sits
nicely into a compartment thatmakes sense to us. And so you
either make up the story, whichyou see that happening with

(16:54):
people, and you're like, That'snot exactly how it happened, but
yep, or you live in this stateof ambiguity, where you cannot
rest until you have the answer.
And that's the state I was inbecause I couldn't make up the
ending. I couldn't make up thestory because I didn't have the
information. I didn't have theknowledge, I didn't have the
facts. Yeah, and so I had towait until the podcast and that
sort of investigative piecehappened. And then, of course,

(17:18):
the the criminal case, thetrial, and, you know, talking to
other victims like it was just avery, very long process of
completing that story so that Icould put that piece of my life
into a compartment that madesense to me, that I could Rest,
yeah, yeah, um,

what advice would you give others about
tuning into their instincts,especially when something feels
just a little bit off?

Tracy Hall (17:51):
This is a hard one for me, because I fully believed
that I had an incredibleintuition. I felt like I could
read people I felt like I knew Ihad this sixth sense, like I
felt like intuitively I knewthings that other people didn't
know. I felt things that otherpeople didn't feel. I fully

(18:12):
believed that to be true aboutmyself, until this happened.
That's hard, though, so hardbecause there was not one moment
where my intuition told me thatthis was off, wrong, weird.
There was not one moment and,you know, he was a master

(18:34):
manipulator, and that's, ofcourse, why this happened. He
created this movie, this worldfor me, that that all made sense
now, was he quirky? Yes, he was.
Were there some weird thingsabout him? Yes, there were. But
everyone, we're 40, like,everyone's a bit weird and
quirky, and no one's perfect.

(18:55):
Um, in retrospect, I can seethem all, but in the moment,
there was not one part of myheart, my gut, my body, that
told me that this was not whatit was. So that was a very
difficult thing to come to termswith, and something that I've
had to rebuild is that trust inmy own intuition. And, you know,

(19:15):
it's it. I've done a lot ofreading and research, and it
actually makes sense, becauseit's not, you know, your
intuition can kick in whenyou're in a like, an empty
parking, you know, car park atnight and you're feeling a bit
creepy or whatever, like, thereare things like that that your
body just feels and senses that,in the case of, you know,

(19:36):
relationships and mastermanipulators, and when you're in
love, Your brain is actuallyvery, very faulty, and this
reliance, or over reliance, onour intuition, is actually it's
a bit of a risk, because yourbrain can override those things
through all of the biases thatwe have, optimism bias,

(19:56):
confirmation bias, similaritybias. Yes, and all of these
things were happening in myworld with Hamish, where my
psychology was manipulated to apoint where I fully believed,
yeah, that it was exactly whatit what it looked like. So
there's been a lot of kind ofacademic learning around that,

(20:19):
but then also rebuilding my owntrust in in how I feel over
time, but that's taken quite abit of effort, I bet,

well, even it just even in listening, because
I'd listen rather than read, buteven listening to the book, and
you do say red flag like a lotthrough it, yeah, but when
you're in it, likeretrospectively looking back in
the room mirror, you can see it,but when you're in it, when you
want to believe,

Tracy Hall (20:46):
I'm sure it's just Ha, and when you being
manipulated, and when you bringthem manipulate it, yeah,
exactly the red flag thing isreally interesting, too.
Because, yes, I do call themout, because I think there are
some learnings to to be had fromfrom looking back. But you know,
often get asked, what, what werethe red flags? And I'm like,
mate, yeah, if they were, if itwas a big red flag waving in

(21:08):
front of my face at the time, Inever would have done what I
did. You know, they are beigeflags at best. And I love that
beige flag, yeah. And it that'sexactly what it is. And I think
when you kind of go, what werethe red flags? Is, like, this
kind of victim blaming thinggoing on, where you're like,
well, you should have seen them,yeah, you know. And, and, you

(21:29):
know, not just in thissituation, my experience is very
extreme, but with coercion infamily violence and things like
that, these things creep up onyou. They don't come walking
through your door with a big redflag no for you to see, because
if they did, you'd run a millionmiles. Everybody would. They are
things that slowly edge up onyou and creep into your world

(21:52):
and into your relationship andinto your experience. And it's
sort of, you know, I describeit, it's death by 1000 cups.
Yeah, it's not the first cupthat will kill you. No, it's the
1000 Cuts. And, you know, yes,we can learn from other people's
experiences and wisdom andthings like that, and that's how
I describe it in the book. Butit's important to know that at

(22:12):
the time, it's very, verydifficult to spot those things.
Yeah, and then some peoplebecome over sensitive to
spotting the red flags. We'veall got girlfriends like, oh,
you know, he laughs funny,which, you know, oh, you know,
he doesn't talk to his motherevery week. So, oh, that's a red
flag. You know, there's all ofthis stuff that we over engineer

(22:33):
red flags as a way not to getclose to people or to spot their
floors. And so I think it's akind of an interesting
conversation, just to keep abalanced view on, yeah,

I do. I think the beige flags and the creeping
up like that is it is somethingto keep in mind, because it
builds like every behaviour orinteraction. It builds, and then
you feel comfortable withsomething that you wouldn't
normally, and it continues to

Tracy Hall (23:03):
go from there or in amongst, like on their own, the
behaviours are not thatconcerning. Yeah, when you put
them all together, and this iswhat I found for me telling my
story as well, is that when Itell this story in full, it
sounds so crazy, yeah, and youhave to do that, because I can't
tell the story the way that itcame out over 18 months, no, but

(23:26):
I got it sentenced at a time,you know, and a sentence at a
time, over time paints apicture. And when it all adds up
and all, you know, you've sortof gone on that journey, and
it'll it all just kind of makessense. But if I tell the story
in one big go, it seems wild andcrazy, and it's like, why would

(23:47):
you believe that he was in NewYork under the trade centre when
the planes hit? And did you knowthat story came in multiple,
like, instalments? And, yeah,yeah, it's, it's, and that's his
psychological tactic as well.
You know, he knew what he wasdoing absolutely.

But even, even you saying that, like the six
and a half or the seven hourbook, yes, me listening to that
is your, like, year and a half,yeah, experience, yeah, and
you're right. Like to condenseit down, and also you have to
tell the main bit. You can'ttell

Tracy Hall (24:22):
the boys. Yeah, no one's gonna read the boring
bits. No one wants to know. Butyeah, it's, it's. So it's really
interesting on reflection, andit gives me perspective when
other people are telling theirstories and and how, how much my
new shot is in there, thatactually pads something out to
have you believe it is what itis. But you know, when someone

(24:46):
summarises a story, it alwaysseems a little far fetched, and
people go,

why did you believe that? Yeah, you know,
but time, and there's a sort oftime that goes into every like,
no one's gonna sit there andlisten for the. Years, a month,
whatever. They just want to knowthe give me the summary, yeah,
that's it, so that they can getback to their life. Yes, I said
before, something that reallystayed with me was that you
wrote the book from the scarrather than an open wound. And I

(25:15):
love that, because a friend ofmine was writing a book from an
open wound and not the scar, andshe couldn't close it down,
because it was just that hurt,the pain. What mindset, or how
did you actually move yourmindset from that open wound to

(25:38):
the scar?

Tracy Hall (25:40):
Okay, I think it was, I think the main thing is
time, yeah. And I always knew,you know, after the podcast came
out, I always had this thing inmy mind that I like to write
about it. I'd like to write abook. This was in my mind. But
in those years afterwards, Ididn't have the capacity to do

(26:02):
that. I was just surviving.
Yeah, and, you know, with timeyou get to a place you've
reflected. I've done all thetherapies I've really, you know,
spent a lot of time thinking andreflecting and and trying to
think about the experience interms of the wisdom and insight
I've gained from it. You can'tdo that when you're highly

(26:25):
emotional. No, your your yourbrain just doesn't give you that
capacity to rationally thinkabout something and put it in a
really, you know, condensed way.
You're just writing fromemotion. You're just reacting.
You are reacting. You arereacting. And I think part of it
too is my the other experiencesthat I've had in life, which I

(26:48):
talk about in the first sectionof the book, all the things that
happened before I met hain,yeah, had set me up to, you
know, to to be able to withstandwhat happened then. But it also
gave me insight that you don'tfeel like that forever. No. So
when my dad died, when I was inmy mid 20s, he was super young,

(27:12):
53 you know, when that firsthappened, the grief is so
overwhelming, and that went onfor years as well, and still,
there are moments, yeah, grieve,yeah. You know, grieve for him,
and I'm highly emotional. Butwhat that experience taught me
is that you don't feel thatintensity and that acute

(27:36):
experience of emotion forever,it changes. It goes up and it
goes down. And, you know, I canreflect on that period of my
life with, you know, 25 years inbetween, with a level of, you
know, wisdom and insight andgrace. And it doesn't mean that
I don't feel grief. It's just Ilook at it differently. And I

(27:57):
because of that experience andother experiences I've had. I
knew that with time it wouldbecome clear, I guess. And
sometimes you just have to giveyourself time, yeah,

I think that is, there's a this great meditation
that is this too shall pass. Oh,yeah, and it's, it's four and a
half minutes, but like, as soonas, like, something comes up,
and you just need a mind reset,this too shall pass. And it's
something that my friend and Ialways say to each other, when
you're stuck in the shit, yeah,in that little time it will

(28:29):
pass, yeah. And you're in thecentre of a storm, yeah. And

Tracy Hall (28:32):
sometimes just sleeping on it, you process
emotions when you sleepproperly. I've worked, um, who
would have thought, um, youYeah, there's, there's an
ability to think differentlythat, you know, often when
something big happens, or, youknow, you're saying, my
girlfriend will say, No, mydaughter will be Oh, I'm really

(28:52):
upset about this. I'm like,Okay, let's just have a good
night's sleep tonight, and let'srevisit it in the morning,
because everything feelsdifferent after you've had a
great state

to us, I don't know, and getting to bed at an
early time, rather than likejust going, Oh, just do a little
bit more. No, you got to get tobed. Yep,

Tracy Hall (29:10):
an hour before midnight is worth two after Yes.
So, okay, good. The more hoursyou can get before midnight, the
better. Good, because I'm

up very soon after midnight. How did you
this? Reason why the question,but one of the things that
everyone talks about is doingthe work. What does doing the
work actually mean for you? Isit facing it or is it just
sitting in it? I

Tracy Hall (29:38):
think it's a combination of both. It is like,
for me, there was one thing thatI was working with my mindset
coach on, and it was, you know,bracing myself. Like, oh, just
gotta, gotta armour up here. AndI've just gotta, you know, do I
brace or do I embrace? And.
Embracing is a really tough,closed feeling, and they also

(30:02):
tend like everything's tense andit's like, I'm going to I'm
particularly myself, and I'm notsafe, and I'm anxious and all of
these things. And embracing isgoing, you know what? Bring it
and bringing it on means facingit. Does mean sitting in it. It
does mean looking at thosethings. I had to really go deep

(30:25):
within myself. Like shame wasprobably one of the biggest
things that I have to workthrough. And it's only been in
the last few years that I'vecome to terms with what that
actually looks like. Shame is areally difficult emotion to
shame

more than guilt

Tracy Hall (30:50):
or Yeah, because guilt is like, I've done
something, yeah. Okay, fine.
Well, shame is I am wrong, okay,right? And shame is, shame is a
very lonely emotion, becausethere is a part of yourself or a
part of your life that youbelieve, if other people know it
about you, that they won't loveyou, or you are not worthy, or

(31:13):
you are not accepted, or you youdon't belong. And we all want to
belong as part of our primalhistory, right? So you tuck it
down into a deep, dark spaceinside yourself, and you hope
that nobody finds out. Well,yeah, Ron was going to find out
about this, right? It was avery, very public criminal case,
and then there was a podcast.

(31:36):
But the most challenging thingfor me about shame was not the
fact that I didn't want otherpeople to see this about me or
know this about me or thinkbadly about me. It was that I
actually didn't want to thinkthat about myself. Yes, yeah. So
I was not only lonely from theworld, I was lonely from myself

(31:57):
because I couldn't connect withsomething that had happened to
me that, you know, I can't sithere and say it wasn't entirely
my fault, like I let thingshappen and I had to face those
things. Yeah, yes, I wastargeted, yes, I was
manipulated. Yes, he was aprofessional. All of those
things are true. But what I feltwas, is this, this thing inside

(32:21):
me that I didn't even want toface to myself, and that made me
feel really lonely from myself,and lonely from my friends, and
lonely from the world. Andloneliness is a really bad place
to be. Yeah, it's a verydepressive state. So I had to
really look at shame. What did Ido? I had a lot of therapy and
and

did you find that talking about it helped in

Tracy Hall (32:45):
the early stages?
Yes, and having thatprofessional to sort of guide me
through the decision to takemedication, for example, you
know, something I never thoughtI would do. I have, I feel
really lucky. I have a verystrong mental constitution. Yes,
I have a brother who doesn't, soI know what that looks like,
yeah, um, but that was, that wasreally helpful. And my, you

(33:08):
know, your friends are great.
Yes, everyone gets bored of thestory. Literally, yeah, life
moves on, and they've got theirown kids and their own
challenges in their own life.
You don't want to be that brokenrecord. It's like that friend
going through a divorce. Yes,it's like, Man, if I have to hit
this guy, okay, okay, you know,so that was really good. But
after time, talk therapy wasn'tenough for me, because I felt

(33:29):
things in my body that Icouldn't shift. I wasn't
sleeping, yes, and this wasn't Icouldn't rationally talk my way
out of a good night's sleep or abad night's sleep. There were
things that I was holding on acellular level in my body
because of the trauma that I hadexperienced, and not just this,
but everything that Iexperienced.

And I'm sure that this then kicked off the
other trauma too, because yourbody just remembers them. And I
guess, yeah,

Tracy Hall (33:59):
I'm triggered. Yeah, I hate that term. I hate that
term, but yeah, I mean, yes. Sothe work is, the work is an
exploration of whatever you needit to be. And sometimes I didn't
have the answer. I did equinetherapy. I had done eyes out. I
have done somatic KennyKinesiology. I've done breath

(34:20):
work. I have done talk therapy.
I've had a mindset coach. I havedone yin yoga. I have done
everything apart frompsychedelics, which I'm open to.

There's a great camp in in Mexico that
apparently I'm

Tracy Hall (34:38):
here for it. I'm totally here for it. I'm waiting
for it to be regulated inAustralia, which is not too far
away. But, yeah, I've done itall because there's always
something to be gained. I did aresilience course last week to
try and understand the, youknow, the the neuroscience of
resilience, because I didn'tfully understand it. From a

(35:00):
brain chemistry point of view,yeah, so I'm constantly looking
for things and trying to learnand understand myself and
understand others, and thatthat's just a journey I'd
probably be on for quite awhile. But you know

what that in itself, is amazing, yeah,
because you can just go, I'mdone, or you can go, I'm not
done, yeah, and I'm going tocontinue to learn and push
myself and see what else I cando.

Tracy Hall (35:25):
And you take breaks in between. I'm not, I'm not the
the constant therapy girl like Ido. I do bits for what I need at
the time, and then I go live mylife. And then when something
comes up or I'm feeling certainfeelings, I'll go, Okay, I feel
like I need, I need to explorethis. So I need to work on this.
So this is getting in the way ofmy relationship, or my ability

(35:48):
to think clearly or whatever,like it's about knowing
yourself, that's what it'sabout.

It is, and I think this is like in doing this
podcast, but also in just thequestions and discussions that
I'm having, this is all aboutknowing you better, yeah, and I
think so many of us don't wantto sit with us, no, and want to
distract ourselves witheverything else. But if we spent

(36:14):
the time even 10 minutes a dayjust thinking about us and what
we want, I think we'll all be somuch better equipped to live.
Yeah,

Tracy Hall (36:25):
and you kind of, I've only come to this in the
last sort of five to eightyears. I wish I had have come to
it when I see my 20s, but Idon't, though, yeah, no, I
think, I think you need lifeexperience. I do perspective. I
think you need wisdom. I thinkyou need time. I don't you know
those people, they're in their20s, that think they have

(36:46):
themselves all worked out andall figured out. I think again,
I call bullshit, yeah, becausethey haven't like they haven't
even felt the tip of life yet,no, or maybe nothing bad has
ever happened to them. And Iapplaud them for doing that
exploration, but they're goingto be a very different person in
20 years, absolutely, andthey're going to be in their
20s. So I, you know, I thinkpart of it is just the way life

(37:09):
rolls out. Yes, you know it is.

It is coming into that second act. Like the
second act is when you can callbullshit, or you can feel a
little bit more comfortable withyourself. Yeah, but now is the
time to be feeling comfortablewith you and understanding you.
Yeah, I'm big believer in that.
So just in regards to financialso this is where you've got such
a powerful voice for advocacyand what helped you regain your

(37:34):
financial footing. And from whatyou've seen and learned, what do
women most need to know toprotect their financial
independence?

Tracy Hall (37:49):
Yeah, the thing that got me back on my feet was pure
necessity. I had no backup. Itwas me. I had a job, and I
doubled down and I worked. I'vealways been a hard worker, but I
worked harder than I've everworked because I knew that to
get myself out of the deep holethat I was in financially, it

(38:12):
was the only way I could do it.
I brought in professionals. SoI, you know, I feel privileged
that I was be able to do that,because not everyone can access
a financial advisor, but I feelgood like I went without other
things to do that because I wasin a place where I couldn't make
decisions for myself. I didn'ttrust myself, I didn't know what

(38:33):
I was going to do. I could notsee the week ahead of me, and I
needed a professional to help medo that, and I found the most
incredible financial advisor. Isigned up to all of the
influences on Instagram. Ilearned as much as I could. I
lent into it, and I did thatwith the help of this financial

(38:54):
advisor who didn't just talk tome about doing the practical
things. She helped me create avision for what I wanted the
rest of my life to look like.
Pretty

amazing for financial advice. Did you do gas
like I

Tracy Hall (39:09):
talk about her all the time, she gets really
brushed Can you stop talkingabout me? I will sing from the
rooftops about this woman forthe rest of my life, because she
was an angel and she was exactlywhat I needed in that moment to
imagine what kind of life Iwanted, because I was in a place
where I couldn't even imaginewhat tomorrow looked like. I was

(39:32):
like, just don't lose your job,just don't lose your job, just
don't lose their place, yeah,which is hard, hard, but very
much a survival instinct for me,because the truth was, if I had
to lost my job, I would havebeen really fucked. Oh, yeah.
So, you know, it served itspurpose for that time. But on
the flip side, I had thisincredible woman who essentially

(39:55):
looked at my whole life and shesaid, What about your
insurances? What if you can'twork? Do you have. Um, income
protection. What about yourbeneficiary? With your
superannuation? We'll get thatback on track. Do you know that
you can put additionalcontributions into super? And
that's going to look like this,and we're going to model that
out, and here's what you'llretire with. So that won't be

(40:16):
enough, so let's come up withanother strategy. How much can
you save every month? Let's doyour budget. What about your
insurances? Yeah, what aboutyour will? Like, they're all
these things that I knew kind ofneeded to happen. I'd heard
about them, but they were alwaysa problem for future me to
solve. And when you're busy andyou're working and you're doing

(40:39):
all the things, maybe you're asingle mom, you just kind of put
it to the end of your to dolist. And what that did for me
was was made me realise howincredibly important that was to
get myself on a track to myretirement. Yeah, so there was a
plan, and with a plan, I hadhope, and I had something to aim
for, and so that was incredible.
And then what I say to women,particularly women and I can

(41:05):
only, I can only, sort of givethis advice from my own
experience and what I've beenthrough, but protecting and
taking agency over yourfinancial security and your
financial future is only yours.

(41:26):
You are the only one that can dothat. A man is not a plan. A job
is not a plan. You are theperson that has to lean in and
do that, because if your partnerpasses away, if you have to face
a major illness, if you gothrough a divorce and don't end
up in the position that youthought you would, if you lose
your life savings to a con man,the only person that has

(41:49):
complete control and agency overthat is you, and I'm not
embarrassed to admit that I gaveaway my financial power and
security way too easily. Yeah, Ifelt grateful that he offered to
help me. Yes. I felt gratefulthat he could see how hard I was
working. I felt seen, yeah, andof course, he lent him to those

(42:12):
things, and he manipulated andhe exploited that. But I should
have given him the laundry. Ishould have given him the after
school pickup. I should havegiven Yes, anything but my nanny
task, another task. Takesomething else off my plate. I
was so happy to give that awayto him, and I will never, ever

(42:32):
do that again. Yeah, and forwomen, you know, it's not about
being in a manipulativerelationship, because there are
a lot of beautiful relationshipsout there, but quite often you
will see one party take a stepback and leave it to the other
person. They may not have thelogins, they may not have the
knowledge. They may not beleaning in. And at this

(42:55):
financial I was on podcast, notwhen we go And the woman said,
what her recommendation alwaysis is don't outsource the
education. Outsource theexecution, yeah, absolutely
leaning together. Know what'sgoing on. Make sure you have the
Logins be across edge, becauseit may not be that your partner

(43:16):
betrays you. No, they mayunfortunately pass away, which
is what happened to my mum inher early 50s, and my dad took
care of all of that stuff, andsuddenly she's dealing with
grief and trying to figure outhow to release $10,000 for a
funeral. Yeah. And you think,gosh, she could have really
protected herself against that.
She could have been morefinancially resilient. So

(43:38):
there's so much to be learned,but, you know, don't give away
your financial power andsecurity. Yeah? To anybody.

I think that's, it's, it's so interesting, and
I've seen it so many times, thatso many women get caught in
doing the crap tasks, yeah,like, the crap, like, just, you
know, the stuff that ismindless, yeah, when? And
they've got no understanding offinancial Yeah, and if they're

(44:08):
separate, well, if they whateverhappened, yeah, they don't know
how they actually going tosurvive, yeah? And

Tracy Hall (44:14):
they don't understand it. And they're
starting from scratch, whichmeans you're on the back foot
before you begin. And I was onthe back foot, yeah, you know,
because I just haven't I hadn'tlent in, I hadn't put my mind to
it. And it's also important tosay that this stuff is not
always accessible. No, thelanguage is accessible. It is
hard to understand, and you feelstupid for putting your hand up

(44:36):
and going, sorry. Can you justexplain that to me again?
Because we, you know, I canguarantee you your partner
probably doesn't reallyunderstand it, you know, you
know. So ask the questions untilyou do understand. And and my
financial advisor, you know, sheknows when I don't understand
something, I'm pleased. I'm sosorry. But please, can you just

(44:56):
explain that to me in adifferent way? So I I need to be
able to explain. Line. It'ssomeone else. Yeah, potentially,
it's

funny. So even on the way dropping my daughter
off this morning, we were shewas talking about, how does the
US political environment impactAustralia? And I was like, Oh my
gosh, I can't way too early forthis chat. GDP, can you please
help me explain to an 11 yearold daughter, my daughter. How
this? And it's exactly the same.
Whenever our financial advisorsends us something through and I

(45:26):
go, I've got no idea what thatactually means. I put it into
chat GDP, just to go, can youexplain this to me so that I
will understand? Get rid of allthe fancy language, but there's
so many tools now that we canuse Yeah, to make sure that that
understanding is done at ourlevel,

Tracy Hall (45:47):
yeah, and just the acknowledgement that it's okay
to not understand. And you know,these are unfamiliar with. None
of us work in finance. Well,some people will, but most of us
don't work in finance, and so wedon't fully understand what,
what these terms and conditionsare, and what it means, and
what, you know, what that means,practically, yeah, so I'm always
saying, what does that mean?
Practically, yes, like, what doI have to do? What does that end

(46:10):
up looking like? You know? So Ihave problem asking the
questions now, because I knowwhat happens if you don't ask
the questions.

I think hard learning, sorry, it is a hard
lesson to learn, but it's onethat you've learned, yeah, and
now you know you've takencontrol of of that. And I think
that is, like, it's amazing,yeah, because so many people
don't, okay, so the year is intoyour 50th birthday, and you do

(46:42):
have your list of things, yeah,what is being the most
unexpected or fun thing on yourlist that you've done? It's

Tracy Hall (46:51):
my 50 before 50 list. It's um, I'm not gonna,
I'm not gonna hit them all. Iknow that. Yeah, so it'll
probably roll into a 60. Wheredid you start? Probably around
45

okay, yeah. And then coming to the party late,
if that's why,

Tracy Hall (47:08):
it depends on you already do. There are things on
there as simple as, I'd love tolearn how to cook paella, like,
probably the proper thing, yeah,you know, stupid, yeah. But it's
never done it. So I'm like, I'dlove to be able to cook paella
for a group of people. So thingslike that, everything from that
to I had write a book. Oh, man,yeah. And then that came to

(47:31):
fruition, gone to surf retreatin Sri Lanka. Went and did that,
learn how to surf in Sri Lanka.
That was incredible. Thebiggest, the biggest one that
has made the most difference tomy life is, How can I sleep?

Yeah, okay, yes, we, we touched on it. Can you
talk to me about this? So,

Tracy Hall (47:51):
chronic Insomniac for 20 years really struggled.
I've done sleep studies, I'vebeen to a sleep psychologist,
I've done all the things. And I,you know, I know that sleep has
a detrimental effect on brainhealth, brain function. And
quite frankly, I'm just a muchnicer person when I've had

(48:14):
sleep. The world is so mucheasier when you have slept. And
I know when I went through thisexperience and other
experiences. When I haven'tslept, the emotions are so much
harder to manage. I can't Idon't cope as well. And I don't
think anybody does, no, I don'tthink anyone does. So I wanted
to learn as much as I could. Iduring COVID, I made a decision.

(48:39):
So one of the things on my 50before 50 list, because I knew
that it could help change mycircadian rhythm, was get up
every morning and go walking atsix o'clock. And I had a little
friend in my bubble that I wasable to do that with. And of
course, it was exciting backthen, because, you know, you got
out and whatever. So it was upevery morning at sunrise for
three months walking with agirlfriend, and that was the

(49:03):
start of reprogramming mycircadian rhythm. So I was
always a night owl, yeah, okay,stay up late, work late. And I
think that was a kind of acorporate hangover as well. And
then I'd be wired, yeah, tiredand wired hard. Get to sleep if
you've been working. No, itjust, and it just felt like the
only time I could fit everythingin. And so I did that, and then

(49:27):
I made a decision that I wouldbe in bed at nine o'clock every
night. I didn't have to sleep atnine, but go to bed at nine and
and get that first wave oftiredness while I was in bed,
rather than push through it andthen not get another one till
two in the morning, live so inbed at nine, either reading or
just relaxing or listening to ameditation or what have you. So

(49:50):
up at six, in bed at nine, andthen I did everything I could to
learn about sleep and what thatmeant and how it was going to
help me. And I just I. DoubleDown, yeah, and I did it and it
has I'm a morning person. Now, Inever thought I would say that
before. I still try and get inbed before 10, one hour before,

(50:11):
is worth Yeah. After Yes. Ibought a an aura. I track my
sleep. Do you like it? I loveit, yeah, because it taught me
everything I needed to knowabout what I was doing that have
impacted my sleep, okay?
Alcohol, exercise, meditation, Itracked everything. And I know,
I know, and it basically looksat data. So I've had it for five

(50:35):
this be my sixth year I've hadit. It essentially looks at all
of my time over the last sixyears, and it tells me what time
I need to go to bed to get thebest night's sleep. And it gives
me a little reminder you're justby confronting seven o'clock
when you're doing the homeworkand doing after school pickup
and activities and cookingdinner and all the things, and
it's like you should be windingto bed now. Oh, but yeah, and

(50:58):
and then over time, I've justgot less obsessive about it. I I
know that I'm still gonna havebad night's sleep because the
things on my mind, or, you know,I've had a few drinks, or
whatever it might be, and I justgo, Well, you know what? It's
just a night back againtomorrow, whereas before, I used

(51:20):
to have so much anxiety aroundsleep, and then the worry about
the worry would stop mesleeping, yes, so, and I've done
a lot of somatic body work tohelp relieve, like, help relax
my body in itself, like at acellular Yeah, Yeah. Meditation
is really hard for me. I don't,I don't know. I can't, I can't

(51:43):
speak to that. But, yeah, justconsistency, consistency, I
think consistency is a big one.
It's hard, but yes, it's worthit, and sleep makes everything
better. It

does. And on your list, six months alcohol
free? Are you still in thatperiod? I'm

Tracy Hall (51:59):
about two and a half months in, okay, to my six
months, I left it as long aspossible. It's been on my list
for a while, and I don't drink alot, but, you know, I just
wanted to see what it felt liketo have six consecutive months
without any alcohol in my body.
So I am sleeping better. Oh,really. I thought I would feel

(52:20):
better, yeah, I thought I wouldreally different, something
different. But

I think if you're not drinking that often,
yeah, it's Yeah, because myliver wasn't great, and so I
stopped drinking for a period oftime, and I was like, Oh, am I
gonna feel like, yeah, 18 again,yeah. But it's like, oh, yeah,
okay, this is it? This is it?
Yeah, but, yeah, I did. I didhelp with my liver over time.
But it's a good challenge. It isa good challenge.

Tracy Hall (52:50):
The thing that I've learned about alcohol, like it's
so associative. So when I gettogether with my girlfriends, we
have a drink, and we don't drinka lot. Quite often we're
driving. Yes, we don't drink alot, but it is that moment where
you're like, it's thatexcitement of being together,
that feeling of community andconnection and an alcoholic
drink goes with that. It does.
It is I play soccer in a women'steam. It is the beer after the

(53:15):
game when we're all standingaround having a laugh about when
I fell over or when I got thegoal, or when I didn't get the
goal, you know, it is soassociative. Anything time
you're doing something that'scelebration, like, yeah, it is,
yeah, it's always and so to haveit not there, feels like
something's missing. You see, Ijust replace it with a mock
trial. So yeah, I think that Iam actually doing, yeah, I've

(53:37):
been doing it. I've been doingthat as well. But, yeah, I don't
know. I just, yeah, I'm, I thinkI'm still getting used to, it's
only two aunts, so yeah, but I'msticking. I'm determined. Okay,
good. I'm determined. We'll letyou know how. Six months I'll be
like, doing high kicks and Starjump. So

you'll be like, this is the best thing ever my
sleep. I'm sleeping like, 12hours,

Tracy Hall (54:01):
five kilos is so good. None of it's happened,

but people who haven't experienced something
quite so extreme, what are thelittle everyday ways we can
better protect ourselves,whether financial, emotional or
even energetically? Can I can Igive you one that Justin came
home and told me he was talkingabout cash rewards. Oh, yeah.
Like, how, yeah, he's cashrewards, you super. And I was

(54:29):
like, what? Yeah, yeah,

Tracy Hall (54:32):
love. I mean, I'm, like, I went through a stage
where I was just anything to getadditional income. I Yes, I was
there for it. So there arelittle things you can do like
that, I think, you know,strength and resilience and all
of those things. They're builtin all the small moments, not

(54:52):
the big moment. Yeah. So everytime I do a cash rewards, I'm
going to spend the money anyway.
So I get this little likekickback, and I go, okay, that
I'm building towards. A goal. Itcould be, you know, some some
goal, that you've got a healthgoal. And every time you go to
the gym or you do the walk, oryou get the night's sleep, it's
like a dopamine hit. So I don't,I think it's in the small

(55:14):
moments. It's in the smallthings that add up over time,
that make you feel holisticallybetter and moving forward. And
it's just about moving forward.
Yeah?

Doesn't have to be big, yeah, it's just so small
steps. Yeah? And you can, evenwhen you're feeling rubbish, you
can take a small step, yeah, andyou do feel better after it as
well. Yeah,

Tracy Hall (55:35):
my um, my psychologist gave me a really
good tip when I was at one of mylowest points, where I'd wake up
in the morning, and I think Iactually don't know how I'm
going to get through this day,like really low, very depressed,
very anxious. And she said, youhave to break your your day down
into the smallest microcomponents so that when you

(56:00):
achieve that micro component,your body gets a little kick,
and it gets a little boost ofconfidence, dopamine, whatever
you want to call it, so and it'san example I've given before,
but in that moment where I'mlying in bed and I've remembered
what's happened to me, and I'vethink about my day ahead, and it
overwhelms me, I go, Okay,what's the first thing I need to

(56:21):
do? I just need to sit up. Yeah,so you sit up. I just need to
get to the kitchen and make acup of tea. Okay, I can do that.
And every time you do that andbreak it down, and you you reach
that goal, your body internallygoes, well, well done, you know?
And then over time, you go,Well, I did it yesterday, yes.
So I can do it today. You can doit today, and you just it's one

(56:44):
step at a time, rather thanthinking about that big day
ahead of you and howoverwhelming that is based on
your energy, your mental healththat day, whatever it might be,
and it's too much. So justbreaking everything down into
tiny steps for people that areagoraphobic and can't leave the
house, maybe it's just gettingto the door, not even opening

(57:05):
the door, and that's a win,yeah? Because they couldn't do
that yesterday or the day beforeor the week before. So that that
was a really good training forme, because it just brought me
back to the present moment anddidn't allow that overwhelm to
paralyse me, yeah, I thinkthat's

yeah. It is just those little things that you
can, yeah, you can, can do withyour advocacy work. How has that
experience reshaped yourpersonal identity and life
goals?

Tracy Hall (57:37):
Well, it has completely changed my career,
yes, so I do this full time nowI've set up a business. I, you
know, this is what I do now. Forme, personally, it has so much
purpose, and it is so central towhat I want to deliver to the

(57:58):
world based on my experience.
And I think, you know, we all gothrough our corporate careers
and we're like, how do I findpurpose? And you're trying to
align your purpose with somecompany purpose, and it's always
a little bit tenuous. And, youknow, and everyone's looking for
that thing to do that makes themfeel like they're giving back to
the world. And when I was incorporate, I, you know,

(58:18):
essentially, I just got peopleto buy more stuff on the
internet. That's it. That was,that was my purpose in life, in
marketing. And I love my job. Ilove marketing, but it wasn't
very altruistic. So I wouldvolunteer on the side to feel
that component of myself. Sothat's what I did. Whereas now
what I do is I deliver to theworld my lessons, my learnings,

(58:42):
my wisdom based on myexperiences, which feels so
purposeful to me, but is my jobnow, and you know, I've got to
pay school fees. I've got to paythe rent and the mortgage and
the groceries and all thethings. So it does have to be
commercial as well, yes, but itcomes from a place internally
where I don't want this tohappen to anybody else, and so I

(59:06):
will do whatever I have in mypower to spread this message, to
be the voice of other people whoaren't strong enough or have not
yet found their voice to haveThis conversation no matter
what's happened to them. And,you know, to advocate for
change, because there is a lotin this space that needs to
change. You know, scams are notseen as crime. So, yes, they're

(59:29):
seen as scams, even the wordit's financial crime. Yeah,
these people are criminals, andI'm lucky that my perpetrator
was taken through a criminalprocess and sentenced to many,
many years in jail, but mostpeople who experience fraud and
a financial crime will neverhave their perpetrator come to

(59:50):
justice, and part of thatprocess is that there is no
victim support for people offinancial. Crime, very, very
little. It actually is better tohave someone break into your
house, steal your TV and put agum to your head, sadly, but the
impact of financial crime andbetrayal to the extent that I

(01:00:11):
experienced is, I think in someways, you know, just as bad, if
not worse than than a violentcrime, but

Dominique Hind (01:00:21):
I think because you are then doubting yourself,
yeah, whereas if it is break andenter, that's a it's rent. Like
it can be a random chance, or itcan be because they've seen
something material that theywant, yes, whereas not your
fault, it's not your fault.
Whereas this is I made, thosedecisions I made, yeah, that
money I did in my account. I'vesent that picture the link,

Tracy Hall (01:00:43):
yeah, yep. And this is, this is how the system is
also set up, and it'scomplicated. There is no easy
fix, but from a victim's pointof view, the victim blaming that
goes on yourself, as well as thelack of support. So for me
advocating for change, so thatpeople who go through what I

(01:01:04):
went through and don't have theresources that I was privileged
enough to find and have, bothinside myself and externally,
then there is a pathway forthese people. There are people
who lose their money, thatchoose to die by suicide because
they cannot get through anotherday. And I know how that feels.
I just, I'm grateful that I hadenough internal resource not to

(01:01:28):
go there. Yeah, some peopledon't, but there are no pathways
for these young people, very,very few. So that's, that's my
gift to the world.

But I also think with them as well, that shame
and that, you know, the whatyou've worked on, you know,
getting to the shame, I think,from financial crime, the shame
for people is just it. Itoverwhelms them. It

does, and it's not helped by the way that these
things are reported and the waythe system is set up, or the way
that they're

judged. Yeah, because you know it. You don't
know what is going on in someperson's point of weakness or
that point of contact, yeah,where it was just a it was just
my man, or, yeah, it wassomething that they weren't
thinking and, yeah, they gottasuck it in. And

these criminals are professionals. They're very
sophisticated. They are it isorganised crime. And I could
talk for hours, but that that Iwon't, it is organised crime.
And the way that, you know, themedia have portrayed these
stories, you know, evenheadlines relating to me and I,
and I'll preface this by sayingit's not intentional, no, I

(01:02:40):
think they just don't know whatthey don't know. Yeah, but think
about violent sexual crimes andhow they used to be reported and
how that narrative has changed.
The same needs to happen forfinancial crime. So instead of a
headline that says Tracy'sdashing investor boyfriend, she
lost $300,000 all all the redflags she missed. You know, it
is completely based on thevictim. Yeah, now he's not

(01:03:04):
dashing. I didn't lose it. Hestole it. And the red flags,
well, we've already spoken aboutthat. So how do they how can you
change the narrative within themedia so that people, when they
see those headlines, know thatthey won't be represented in
that way. I'm strong enough towithstand that. Yeah. I mean,
that's fine, yes, but there arepeople that will not come

(01:03:26):
forward and they will not reportbecause they are afraid that
that is the way that they willbe betrayed. And that's a fair
that's a fair judgement,absolutely.

So one of the things that I'd loved was that
you you thanked at the end ofthe book, the other victims that
you and I thought that wasactually because it felt like
your own support network. And Iknow it's sounds funny, but by
knowing that people had gonethrough exactly what you had,
and I think that's a, you know,a great thing, to be able to

(01:03:58):
have that support

when you're not alone, when you're not alone,
when you feel like somebody elsefully understands what you've
been through, then that is areally comforting place to
start. Yeah, and you know,again, loneliness is a very
difficult thing to cope with,especially when you're dealing
with all the other emotions. Soyeah, they were an incredible

(01:04:19):
support for me, I think we allwere for each other, and
everyone had a differentexperience with Hamish. But you
know, collectively, we'd alllost a lot of money. And

also, I'm sure you're all feeling the same,
yeah, so it would have beendifferent experience, but I'm
sure that internal feelinginside you, yeah. Was similar
across everyone, yeah.

And it was, it was funny, like Lisa Ho, for
example. Her, her view wasreally pragmatic, and I took a
lot from her strength, but she,she sort of looked at it. She
goes, it was a bad businessdecision. I made a bad business
decision, and that's how shelooked at it. She had advisors
who were advising her, you know,and, and she was a. Pragmatic as
that she wanted him to come tojustice. There was no doubt

(01:05:04):
about that side of her strength.
But I listened to that, and Ithought that's actually not a
bad if she wasn't in an intimaterelationship with him. That was
sort of another level for methat none of the other victims
had experienced. But I learned alot from that. Yes, I learned a
lot. Yeah, yeah, she'sincredible, yeah, yeah. And at

least she did speak up as well.

Yes, yeah, she she was, she was happy to put her,
her name out there and and be avictim. And there were a lot of
people that have been defraudedby Hamish that didn't do this
for their own reasons. And youdon't judge, not only for that,
you can't, but I don't know whattheir story is. You don't know
what their story what they'regoing through, but there was a
lot more money lost than whatwas actually part of the case.

Second last question, how do you envisage
using your experience tocontinue making such a positive
impact?

I will just continue on this path until I have no
words left.

I have a lot of words and that it is a financial
crime rather than a scam. Ithink that is, like, that's a
big one, yeah, trying to getthat changed. Victim

Support, pathways to recovery, so pathways to
reporting, pathways to victimsupport a singular pathway. It
is very confusing. If you are avictim of financial crime, to
know what to do, you have toreport it to like, three or four
different places, like there is,you know, and the government are
trying, yes, they're reallyworking on this. They're

(01:06:36):
spending a lot of time andenergy. My place in the
conversation is to remindeverybody that is working so
hard on this, all the money thatis being spent, all the data
that is coming out, all the AItechnology that is being put
towards this, by the banks, bygovernment, by the telcos, by
everybody. My job in thisecosystem is to remind people

(01:07:02):
that there are humans at thecentre. Yes, does this Yes? And
the human toll is profound, andquite often it's not spoken
about enough. And it's reallyimportant to remind people that,
you know, there are humans whoselives have been devastated and
flattened by the greed ofothers, but also taken as well,
and taken, taken 100% and youknow, it's an important voice to

(01:07:28):
add to the ecosystem ofeverything that's happening. And
quite often I'm the only victimvoice in the room, but I'm okay
with that, because I will talkon behalf of everybody. And so
that's, that's what I bring tothe table, and then education.
The story is very shocking. Sopeople stop and listen, yes, and
I think at this point in time,it's still, you know,

(01:07:50):
unfortunately, the weakest linkin the defence ecosystem is
humans. Yeah, and we need tocontinue to educate ourselves.
We had to continue to talk aboutthis money. We don't like
talking about money. We don'tI'm happy to talk about the
money I've lost, you know, and Ithink the most intelligent thing
we can do when it comes to scamsand fraud is to humbly accept

(01:08:14):
that it might happen to

us. Yes, I think that's it. Where everyone goes,
Oh, it's not going to happen.
But what happens when it does?

Well, it did yeah.
And I never thought it would beme Yeah. And so if I can
continue to spread that messageand be that beacon of hope for
anybody else going through areally hard time, then I'm
that's, that's what I want todo. I'll continue doing it until
I can't pay the rent and schoolfees and but, yeah, that's what,
that's what I want to do, andand I think it's making a

(01:08:41):
difference. I

you know what? I definitely do. Think it is
making a difference, and even ifit is just getting women, or
even just people in general, toactually understand their
financial situation and takeownership of it, rather than
just kick it down the road.
Yeah, that's a massive thing?
Yeah,

we are so financially and digitally
vulnerable, and we don't evenrealise it. You know, you just
have to ask a few simplequestions to an audience and
people. You can see their mindsgoing, actually, I don't have
the logins. I don't know howmuch is in my super right now. I
haven't set up two factorbiometrics. My passwords are
probably really huggable. Yeah,you know, there's, there's a lot

(01:09:24):
I don't check my bank statementsevery week. You know, there
were, there are simple questionsthat I asked and people you can
just see them going actually,you know what? I need to lean
into this a bit harder. And ifthat's all they take away,
that's all they take away. Thatis a good step forward. You

know, it is a good step forward. Even checking
the bank accounts like and thesubscriptions that you just get
coming, and you're like, what?
Oh, have I used that in sevenmonths? Yeah, right. Okay,
Tracy, it has been absolutelylovely talking to you and like,
I knew that as soon as I saw youI was gonna cry, because when I
read the. Book, I honestly wasso like, I just think you're

(01:10:01):
amazing. Like, I actually dothink you're amazing. But if
there's one thing I could dobefore I hit 50, something that
would push me. What do you thinkit should be?

Write a 50 before 50 list? I'm definitely doing that,
but it'll battle short. It'll belots of things in there, and you
may not hit them all, but it's,it's always good to have
something to aim for. It keepsus moving forward. It keeps us
curious. It keeps us, you know,I always think it's good to be
interesting and interested. Yes,you know. And that keeps you

(01:10:38):
both of those things. So do thatlist? Okay,

yeah. And what like being having something to
be interested in, yeah, itstops, you know, this the
silence, because it gives yousomething to actually aim for
and to look for as well. Yeah,

that's it. Yeah, okay, great. Do that. Let me
know. Can you send it to me whenyou're done? Can you send me
yours first? Yeah, I can shareit with you. Just another thing
to do. Your to do list.

I'm joking, yeah, all right, okay, Tracy,
thank you for sharing your storywith such honesty, depth and
grace, like I honestly do thinkyou are amazing. Your ability to
turn pain into purpose is beyondinspiring. Sorry. My technique.
I just like, like, I honestlythink that you coming out the

(01:11:28):
other side is amazing. So welldone. You. And I know it's hard,
but you've done it. And ifTracy's story has moved you like
it has obviously me go and reador listen to her book, the last
victim. It's not just a memoir,it's a master class in

(01:11:50):
resilience, and if someone istrying to rebuild, reinvent or
simply reconnect with yourpower, Tracy's journey is proof
that it's possible, and we don'tget to control what happens to
us, but we do get to choose whatwe do next, and the way that

(01:12:11):
Tracy has chosen to show up forherself and for others is
something that we can all learnfrom. So if you love this
episode, share it with friends,excuse my tears, and connect
with us on any of the socials.
And also, why don't you takeTracy's challenge, do a 50 list
before you're 50, try somethingthat scares you a little and

(01:12:34):
just shake things up. Becausefuck we're nearly 50, and isn't
it amazing? You.

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