November 6, 2025 • 44 mins
EPISODE 15: F*ck, I’m Building a Legacy! with Colin Jowell
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In this episode of F*ck, I’m Nearly 50!, I sit down with my old agency mate and all-round legend Colin Jowell, founder of BillWill, a platform helping people capture and share what truly matters before it’s too late.
From late nights pitching at Y&R to building a business about legacy, love, and life admin, Colin’s story is a brilliant reminder that the things we leave behind aren’t always the big things. They’re the small ones - the quirks, the dad jokes, the memories, and the kindness that linger long after we’re gone.
We talk about losing his dad and how that changed everything, the unexpected complexity of modern life (and death), and why legacy isn’t about money or milestones but the connections we make and the stories we leave. Colin unpacks the three dimensions of legacy - financial, practical, and personal - and how a little bit of organisation today can save your family hours of pain tomorrow.
This conversation is funny, confronting, deeply human, and surprisingly uplifting. It’s not really about death - it’s about how to live better now.
So if you’ve ever thought, “I should really get my shit sorted,” this one’s for you.
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This episode gets into:
💬 How losing his dad led to the creation of BillWill
🧠 Why we avoid talking about death (and how to reframe it)
💸 The three dimensions of legacy - financial, practical, and personal
⚡️ The hidden chaos of our digital lives (and who pays the power bill when you’re gone)
❤️ How small details - humour, quirks, and kindness - become our real legacy
📲 How tech and behavioural science can help us live with more clarity
🌅 What it means to live with purpose, connection, and fearlessness at midlife
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Colin brings honesty, warmth, and wit to a conversation that makes you think about life, loss, and what really matters - without losing the laughs.
If you’ve been meaning to sort your stuff out, write that note to your kids, or just live with a little more intention, hit play.
Because f*ck, we’re nearly 50 and isn’t it amazing when we realise it’s not too late to start living on our own terms?
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🌐 Learn more: billwill.com.au
📲 Follow Colin: linkedin.com/in/colinjowell
🎧 Listen now: https://fckimnearly50.buzzsprout.com
📺 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@FckImnearly50
📲 Follow along: https://www.instagram.com/fckimnearlyfifty
Let me know what you'd love to hear about next.
🔥 Let’s keep the conversation going! 🔥
📺 Watch the episodes on YouTube – Subscribe here!
💬 Join the community – Follow me on Instagram @fckimnearlyfifty and share your thoughts on this episode. Or connect with me on LinkedIn.
🎧 Never miss an episode – Subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
📢 Spread the word – If you loved this episode, share it with a friend (or 10). Because midlife is better when we figure it out together.
Because f*ck, we’re nearly 50, and isn’t that amazing? 🚀
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dom Hind (00:00):
Hi, I'm Dom Hind, and f*ck, I'm nearly 50.
And lately I've been thinking alot about success.
Not the versions we were soldin our 20s, the titles, the late
nights, the awards, but thekind that actually feels good.
The kind that makes you feelproud, not just productive.
Because somewhere along theway, success started to look a
(00:21):
lot like exhaustion disguised asachievement.
And I don't know about you, butI'm craving something
different.
More meaning, less noise, morefreedom, less proving.
And that brings me to today'sguest, someone I've known since
those wild agency days when workwas life.
Colin Joel and I workedtogether back in the good old
(00:42):
days at Wonderman and Wynar,where we were pitching nonstop
weekend after weekend.
We were young, caffeinated,although mine was Red Bull,
constantly chasing the next win,and let's be honest, completely
forgetting what an actual lifewas.
We were in a pitch-winningstreak so strong, it was so
addictive, but also completelyunsustainable.
(01:05):
Fast forward a few decades, andColin's journey has evolved in
the most brilliant way.
He's gone from building brandsto building meaning, from
helping companies tell storiesto helping people capture their
own through Bill Will, aplatform that helps us leave
behind something that actuallymatters: our stories, our
values, our lesson, and ourlove.
(01:26):
Colin's one of those rarehumans who can make you laugh,
think deeply, and question yourentire definition of success all
in the same breath.
This conversation is aboutredefining what it means to make
it, the beauty of midlifereinvention and how we can live
and lead with more purpose,honesty, and joy.
Because fuck, I'm nearly 50,and maybe the goal now isn't to
(01:51):
do more, it's to do whatmatters.
Colin Joel is a strategist,speaker, coach, and the founder
of Bill Will, a platform thathelps people capture and share
(02:13):
what truly matters, theirstories, beliefs, and life
lessons.
After decades working with someof the world's biggest brands,
from Optus to Combank, Colinrealized that while we're
brilliant at building careers,we're terrible at building
legacies.
Not the kind made of money, butthe kind made of meaning.
(02:38):
Bill Will is his answer tothat.
It helps people make sense ofwhat really matters through
three very human dimensions (02:44):
the financial, the practical, and
the personal.
Because legacy isn't just aboutwhat happens when we're gone.
It's about the small detailsthat make up our lives now.
The quirks, the humor, thelittle acts of kindness, the
things people actually remember.
(03:06):
From forgotten passwords toprobate paperwork.
Colin's work reminds us thatlegacy isn't built in the big
moments, it's tucked away in thesmall ones.
If you've ever hit pause andwondered what's all this really
(03:29):
for, this episode is for you andwill hit home.
Colin Billy Joel.
Welcome to Fuck, I'm nearly 15.
If someone met you at a dinnerparty and you couldn't say
founder, how would you describeyourself?
Colin Jowell (03:46):
It's a hilarious question because I'd never say
founder.
Dom Hind (03:49):
I know, I know, but you know.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
But um, I, you know, if I was trying to impress
somebody, I would probably sayI'm an applied behavioral
scientist.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Um, but I'm a serial entrepreneur.
I've done a series ofbusinesses for myself and with
my partner.
Um, and now I have a littletech business that helps people
define what kind of legacythey'd like to leave behind for
the loved ones.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I love I love the whole thing about legacy.
Can you just talk about whatlegacy means to you?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, legacy, it's it can be it can be a bit of a
scary word because I think wecan get trapped into, I suppose,
the bigger things that we'vedone in our lives and the the
this myth that we're somehowgoing to be remembered in some
way, shape, or form one, two,three generations from now.
Legacy is really about uh forme, it's about the love and the
(04:38):
relationships that you that youleave behind and leaving behind
memories that are both, youknow, positive but also
pain-free.
And I think we'll talk aboutthose things in sort of separate
measure because they're equallyimportant.
And we think about we thinkabout the the the positive
stuff, but we also there's a lotof pain that can be
inadvertently left behind ifwe're not if we're not careful
(04:59):
about it.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
What's one moment in your lifethat made you go?
Fuck, something has to change.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, I mean, I'd have to say losing my dad in
2020.
Um we were, I suppose, youknow, lucky to a certain extent
that we knew that he was he wassick.
And so he was in a hospitalnearby, and I got to see him
pretty much every single day,which is something I hadn't done
since my childhood.
Yeah.
And a lot of the conversationswe had talked about the life
(05:33):
that he'd led and the legacythat he was leaving.
And he was a man who, in myestimation, my dad was my hero,
done so many amazing things, andyet he was so uncertain about
what legacy he was leavingbehind.
And so it really, I was like, Idon't think I'm ever going to
achieve half as much as as hedid, and he's still worried
(05:53):
about this stuff.
I need to start focusing on ondifferent things and going,
yeah, I'm I'm living my life inall the wrong, uh tasting all of
the wrong things, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, I can understand that.
Um, you've had a fascinatingcareer working with big brands,
big egos, big ideas.
What was the tipping pointwhere you realized success
wasn't just what you build, butwhat you leave?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, I mean, so I went through an experience where
I'd built an agency, I'd soldthat agency, um, and then I'd
left the business that I sold itto and went back into working
for another agency.
And don't get me wrong, greatplace, lovely people, all the
things that I'd left were werewere still there.
Um, but I just looked at thekind of work that I was doing,
(06:45):
and you know, advertising for mehad kind of lost its uh its its
stature, I guess.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Sparkle.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, I mean, I remember atime early in our careers when,
you know, you could turn on thetelevision and you could two out
of the three ads with a giveand break would be work that
you'd had a hand in, and thatfelt like something.
And then I was like, even if Iwere to achieve that again
today, what would that be?
What would that be?
Speaker 1 (07:12):
It's different, different meaning.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Totally, totally.
And then you look back on thethings that the process of
getting to that.
Well, what what what's part ofthat?
Well, that was buildingbusinesses and helping people
get started in their careers andyou know, changing lives in
that kind of way.
Um, and you know, occasionallyI'd I'll get um notes from
people who I'd helped early outin their career, and that's the
(07:35):
stuff that really matters.
So it's less about this the thework, the recognition, awards,
and who gives a fuck, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Totally, totally.
Um, have you found yourselfchasing something you thought
you wanted, then realized itwasn't actually yours to chase?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, when I sold thebusiness the the first time I
sold it to a consulting company,yeah, and that was I'd started
my life as a consultant.
And if if you read anyone's CBand they've left consulting
after two years, it wasn'tnecessarily their choice, is all
I'm gonna say.
Um, and so 20 years later I wasback in this consulting
environment, and you know, therewas this sort of you know, you
(08:17):
know, if I'd wanted to chase thepast of my partner again, and I
was like, it's the last thingin the world I want to do.
Um, it was the first time I'dever looked ahead and gone the
next step, the logical next stepis not what I want at all.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, I can totally understand that.
Um so you you've spent yearshelping brands tell better
stories.
What made you want to helppeople tell theirs?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Oh, I mean, I think I think firstly, everyone has a
story to tell right?
Yeah.
And yet, if you sit someonedown and you ask them to tell
that story, most people don'teven know where to start.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
And I I and I think I watched that to a certain
extent with with my dad.
And Bill will, in many ways, isinspired by the all the things
that he did do in that regard,but also some of the things that
he failed to do in that regard.
Um, but I just realized if youknow, we've all got things that
we need to pass on.
Some of it will prevent painfrom happening, and some of it
(09:25):
will bring immense comfort, andyet most of us don't know where
to start.
And we don't, it's not easy andit's scary and it's
intimidating.
And so I looked around themarket, as it were, and I was
like, oh well, maybe thisthere's something that's out
there, and none of them reallydid it in the way that I thought
it could be, yeah, it could bedone.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Okay, interesting.
For anyone who hasn't heard ofBill Will, how do you describe
it in your own words?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Um, we talk about it in terms of the financial and
the practical and the personal,and you can leave critical
information that will eitherspare your loved ones endless
hours of searching and pain anduncertainty, or bring them
immense comfort in and lettingthem understand that your wishes
and your hopes and your dreamsfor them.
Yeah.
And we all have people in ourlives, whether it's kids that
(10:22):
you're looking after or orparents that you might be
leaving behind, which is in somecases it's both.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Um, and we go, okay, well, if I wasn't here, then
what?
Then what?
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah.
And it's interesting.
I um, prompted by thisdiscussion, I did go through and
start doing it for me.
Well, it's gone front.
You know, I've already got mywill and my letters of wishes,
all of that's already done.
But just it it is confrontingthinking about what is the
message that I want my kids tobe left with?
What is something that I wantthem to know?
(10:55):
Like it literally is what isthe knowledge and the wealth of
wisdom that you are passing onto them so that they can
remember that?
Because you're right, like two,three, four generations are not
going to remember us.
No, like unless you actuallydid change the world, they are
not going to remember theeveryday people.
No.
(11:15):
But you do have a role to playin building their foundations as
a human, 100%, which then willhave a flow-on effect to the
people that they surroundthemselves with.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
100%.
And there's no real vehicle,like you don't, and it doesn't
have to be war and peace, youknow.
No.
Where we're at with with thehow we solve for that particular
problem on the app is well,this is actually where we've
actually started using some AIto help you.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Because, okay, firstly, your wishes for your
kids are going to change fromyear to year.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
And then from day to day.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
And also the crap that you accumulate as well.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Like 100% needs to be included.
From so we take people on asort of a it's called Bill,
obviously.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
And it takes people on this sort of journey of okay,
well, let's get the life anddeath stuff out of the way.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
So that's why the name Okay, right.
And now I get it.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Well, it started as a will for your bills and your
bank accounts.
Now we've turned Bill into awhole new creature.
And so Bill will talk youthrough the life and death
stuff, like what are theallergies that are going to kill
your child that people shouldknow about?
Yeah.
Um, but then also what are thethings that bring them comfort,
and then guide them into theconversation around, well, you
know, are there any habits orchores or attitudes towards
(12:27):
technology or what do you wantfor their education?
So it sort of guides you in asort of a very gentle kind of
way, starting with the basicstuff that you go, yeah, I
should probably do this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And someone should know this.
Yeah.
Um, because you know, what wefound even between couples, the
information isn't necessarilysymmetrically shared.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yes.
Yeah, I can I can imagine that.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
And so having the bot kind of lead the conversation
is kind of it it means that it'snot as confrontational because
they're um, you know, they'rebeing asked questions mutually
together.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Um, what do you think?
See, I think this is it's sointeresting that, you know, when
I talk to people about BillWill, they'll be like, oh, it's
just too confronting.
How do you get around that?
Like even my nan, who's 93, andor 93 tomorrow, um, she doesn't
want to talk about death.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
You know, I mean, I I almost understand it more at
your nan's age than I do atours.
And I know that sounds like aninverse logic.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Because at our age, actually, the confrontation of
it, I try to get people aroundreframing it.
It's not about the imminence ofyour death.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah.
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
It is actually about the complexity of your life.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Or what your loved ones weren't do would to do if
you weren't here to give themthe mental rotix of all of that
information that you just keepcarrying around in your head.
So it's not about whetheryou're 50 or 60 or 70 or 80, but
how complicated is your lifeand how easy would it be for
someone to pick that up, pickthat stuff up.
I mean, I joke that I inventedthis because if the, you know,
(14:03):
if I something were to havehappened to me and the lights
went out, that would be thefirst time my partner would know
that the electricity hadn'tbeen.
So, you know, you know, youknow, and and then you multiply
that by that's one that's onefield of above 1500 that we
collect.
So, you know, and that stuffbecomes genuine pain.
Yeah.
Genuine pain.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Do you think in doing this you've realized just how
overcomplicated we make ourlives?
Totally.
And how much shit that weaccumulate, and how much stuff
that we just add and add and adand add and don't need to?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Oh, 100%.
I mean, I think there's thisreally basic aha moment.
So one of the cool things onthe app is that it connects to
your bank accounts and it findsall of your bills for you,
right?
Yeah.
And so, and everyone,everyone's, you know, I'm not
gonna use the streamer brandname, but they have a they have
that moment where they're I'mpaying for these.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
And then there's this uh another module where they've
got all of their possessionswhere they can be set to
sentimental possessions.
Of course, you know, ifcataloguing these things becomes
a pain in the derriere, whatare you even doing hanging on to
these things?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Exactly.
But also the time involved inmaintaining the things, you go,
Well uh are they actually addingjoy or are they just being a
maintenance thing that I need tocarry on for my family?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Well, one of the things, and putting on the
behavioral science hat for asec, you know, we become
attenuated to things bothpositive and negative really,
really quickly.
So if we have something reallybad happen into our lives, one
of our best survival instinctsis our ability to adjust.
But unfortunately, that alsoworks with the things and the
stuff.
You stop looking around the thethe house and seeing the
(15:38):
beautiful artwork or the thethings that you worked so hard
to achieve.
You just accept that they'rethere.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
And then and then if there's too much of it, it can
become oppressive.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Um, and so yeah, I just it it's a it's a way of
sort of murry condoing youradministrative life.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
And I find it quite satisfying, but you know, about
30 to 40 percent of thepopulation find it satisfying.
About 34 to 40 percent ofpeople couldn't give it away.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
They don't care, they don't care.
They're just like, whatever.
I'm happy to accumulate.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
People often say to me, Oh, what do I care?
I'll be dead.
But they go, you know, okay,that's all right.
You know, but for the rest ofus who care about the people we
leave behind, that's what we'rethere for.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
It's interesting.
So one of my really goodfriends, both of her parents
passed at separate times, andthe admin load that she now
carries in managing it.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
100%, it's a lot.
It's a full-time job.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Like it, like uh it actually is a full-time job.
And the the hard thing is, isyou know that they love you, but
leaving all this shit behind isactually really selfish because
it's leaving it to them toclear it up.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
100%.
I mean, we reckon on theplatform if you if you
persevere, you have to, andthat's why we've built it in
this modular way, is becauselike do them, you know, like a
module a day max.
Yeah.
Maybe even two or three a week,and you'll get there in a
couple of weeks.
Um, but you know, for everyfive minutes on you spend on the
platform, you're probablysaving your loved one about an
(17:13):
hour or two hours of hunting.
Right?
Think about it.
If you didn't know who theelectricity was with, yeah,
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Where would you go to the you have to go through
emails and you'd have to likewhich email can't is it invoice?
Is it like by company?
Like there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
So we reckon we can save a family between 200 to 300
hours of hunting and in somecases pure uncertainty.
Like one of the first things afamily will fight about if it's
not clear is what's your funeralplan?
How would you do that?
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Well, I mean, well, because I mean it happens within
the first seven days.
100%.
Like, and you're already inthat grief stage and 100% not
knowing what to do.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And religious views are over here, the family may be
over there, and somewhere inbetween a plan needs to be made
at a time when you cannot make aplan.
And so, you know, that's oftenone of the first places that
families start fighting.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
And then they continue with money counter.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
The money doesn't make it better.
Money does not make thatbetter.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Why do you think we avoid thinking about what we'll
leave behind until it's toolate?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I just think people don't think about things in
terms of the complexity of theirlives.
I think they can think aboutit, you know, there's this great
Steve Jobs commencement thingwhere he talks about, so it
says, you know, if you if youact like every day is going to
be your last, yeah, one dayyou'll be right.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
And it's a really good, and you know, he, you
know, in that in that speech, hereally talks about the fact
that, you know, thinking aboutthis consistently is one of the
best ways of, I think he says,avoiding the trap of thinking we
have anything to lose.
And I found that really one ofthe profound things around sort
of driving that is that we avoiddoing it because we don't want
to think.
We think that by thinking aboutit, we'll invite it into our
(18:55):
but I view it in completely thedifferent way.
Like when was the last time youimagined a situation and it
happened exactly as you thoughtit was going to?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
There's always something.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
There's always something different.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
So if you unless you spend the time manifesting and
manifesting.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I've never manifested accurately in my life.
It's always just a little bitdifferent.
Like it's it's always great,but it's just not what I
anticipated.
And the same goes with death.
Like you can't manifest theperfect death.
I mean, you know, if you wereto receive a diagnosis tomorrow,
yeah, would you and think aboutyou as future you having
finished the bill will havingdone everything in its place.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
I'd be so happy.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
So pleased because you'd get those last days, then
however long you could travel orgo dancing or doing, or that's
what you want to be spendingthat time doing.
So it's not a you know, andthat's why I go, it's I get it
if you're 70.
Like if you're 70 and you knowyour life has kind of shut down
and it's simplified, and youwould rather not think about it,
or 80 or 90 these days.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
But at our age, at the fucking nearly 50 phase,
actually, this is when like timewould be really better spent.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, doing that.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Doing other things.
Yeah.
So interleave the I'vehopefully I've inspired you to
do at least the other threemodules, do that.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I'm definitely going to.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
You know, do it interleave with the other
things, and then when the timecomes, you're just like, oh
great.
I can I can do the things thatI want to do.
I can spend time connectingwith the people that I love.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yeah.
And actually leaving a bit moreof a legacy with them.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
And creating those memories when you still have the
time.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, rather than stressing about the admin you've
got.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Rather than going well, it's my bank accounts.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Says no one.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
You said before that how we live is how we'll be
remembered.
What do you think most peopleget wrong about that?
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah.
Okay, so not Steve Jobs, didn'tinvent the iPhone, not Romeo
and Michelle, I didn't invent apost-it either.
People think it's about the bigthings.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
And it is not about the big things.
So in fact, I know that mysoon-to-be husband at the end of
the year is not going toremember uh even anything I've
done with Bill Will.
He's not going to rememberthat.
The moment he'll remember me iswhen he hears a really bad pun
laden dad joke.
And and he's gonna wish thatI'd either told it to him or
(21:09):
that he could tell it to me.
And those are the it's in thosesmall details that our true
legacy lies.
Yeah.
The things that make us thatthat are where our true
personality exists.
Um, and then those moments thatthat that ultimately create a
last a lifetime.
Yeah.
Even on those big trips that wetake, is it you know, seeing
(21:30):
Big Ben or was it the ice creamyou had walking down the street?
It's always the ice cream.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Always ice cream, particularly if it's like
lavender flavor, fantastic.
Yeah.
Um, if someone listening feelslike they're just getting
through the day, how can theystart living with more purpose
right now without it feelinglike another job on the list?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah.
I mean, I don't think about itlike purpose, go small.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Come right back to the present.
We don't create any change inour lives by focusing on these
giant goals.
We the most effective way tocreate change in your life is to
do the smallest thing possibleon a consistent basis.
And so it is again, it's notabout the big things, it's about
okay, well, what is the onething I can do for myself today?
(22:20):
Whether it's go to go to thegym or you know, call someone,
call someone or spend an extrahalf an hour with the kids or
whatever.
What is the smallest possiblething that you can do that will
add meaning and value to yourlife?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
And just keep and then don't change, keep doing
that until you think ofsomething else to do.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Um, so starting small and staying small, and all the
habit change guys will talkabout this in that way.
Rather than thinking about, oh,I'm not living my purpose and I
need to find what this thingis.
And it comes clear over time.
And then you suddenly realizeactually was there all along.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
In the little reaction, the little moments we
have.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
And I think, yeah, even with that, I always ask
myself, where can I find thejoy?
Where is the joy in this?
Like, because the joy, with thejoy comes those small moments
of just depth and love withinyou.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
Um legacy across threedimensions the financial, the
practical, the personal.
Can you, what, what, why?
(23:21):
What do I mean?
What are you talking about?
What are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, like the yeah, surely the will covers this and
you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Should we just be be done?
Speaker 2 (23:28):
No, well, you know, little known facts.
So let's start with thefinancial stuff, because that's
what people really think aboutthe most.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Um, well, even if there's when someone dies, the
number one thing I think mostpeople would think about is what
like the money.
It's the money.
What is what's the what's themoney?
What's the stuff?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
And yet there is no record of your bills, uh, your
bank accounts and your will,right?
Nor should there be, right?
Okay.
And little known fact, mostwills can't be executed without
something called probate, whichis a grant that the will is
valid.
And in order to get a grant ofprobate, you need an accurate
statement of your assets andliabilities.
Um well, where is that?
And how are you gonna get that?
So we help people with aroadmap to that.
(24:06):
Um, we are open banking enabledso we can actually provide the
estate with accurate informationon cloud.
Yeah.
So they're not writing to 20banks.
Uh, you know, and most of thestuff, you know, uh suffers from
what I call the Ghostbustersproblem.
Like, who are you gonna call?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Right?
Like you just so no start.
Um where's the wallet?
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Exactly.
Are you gonna start flippingthrough the credit tape?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
No, it's like where's the phone?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah.
So that's the financial stuff.
And without the financialstuff, the rest of the world
can't even start.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Um, and then there's the practical stuff.
And the practical stuff, we'vegot these complicated, invisible
digital lives.
Time was you could sit by themailbox and someone's life would
eventually be passing through.
But now you're searchingthrough emails if you've got the
password to the computer that'sprobably operating on a
fingerprint.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
And so you can't really cut a fingerprint.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, we don't want to be, we don't want to be
getting into that business.
So, you know, we deal withthings like, you know, where are
the password stored, yeah, youknow, uh, secure solutions for
all of that.
Um, what are where are the keyonline accounts that you you
that you you you you want tomanage, like you know, this
notion of sort of the Facebookghost that comes back to remind
you that they're gone once ayear, like that thing.
(25:18):
And then yeah, all of the thewater and the lights and the uh
and the utilities and the phonebills, and and we help people
with all of that stuff.
Um, you know, and what peopledon't realize is they're oh shut
shut the phone bill, the shutthe mobile phone down, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yeah, you still get a monthly bill.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, but but you actually, in a lot of cases, you
need it for two factorauthentication.
That kind of stuff.
Otherwise, it becomes wildlycomplicated.
Yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
And so I forgot about two factor.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, so when we get an instruction to close or
transfer of mobile phone, we go,are you sure?
Yeah, can we sort of can we canwe pause that until you've done
everything else?
Yeah, yeah.
Like the last thing you shoulddo.
Same goes with cloud accounts.
You know, people go, uh, shutthe Apple account.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
And they go, okay, so all that data you have the
data, the photos, yeah, the earcomes.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
We're we're like a little bit of friction in that
space, in the family space.
And then there's the personalstuff.
And the personal stuff iseverything from you know,
heartfelt letters of of of trueletters of wishes in terms of
your aspirations for your kids.
Or, you know, I mean, I don'thave kids, but I do have if I
were to die today, I would wantto make sure that there was a
(26:27):
plan in place for someone tolook after my mum.
Yeah, um, and so and and I havefriends.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You do, you do, yeah.
You got to do that.
But I care about too.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Um, and so there's something for everybody, and you
know, and I'm a you know, madcat daddy, so that needs to be,
you know.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
The pets.
The pets are a big thing.
Yeah, they are a big thing.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah, 100%.
So yeah, it's uh it's a lot tothink about, but one module a
day.
That's all.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Um, what are some of those oh shit moments people
don't think about until it's toolate?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we've kind of
covered, I think we've kind ofgone through that in terms of it
is about the specific detailsof any given any given aspect of
your life, whether it is thefinancial or the personal, or
you know, maybe you've nominateda guardian for your child.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Um see what I like, I want to change it, right?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
100%.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Yeah.
And if you were, you know, butyou know, if if, you know, God
forbid, neither you or yourpartner were here to pass on
that information.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, yeah.
It's tough.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Where do you start?
Yeah.
And you'd be amazed how quicklyeven just providing people with
a basic roadmap on some of thebig ticket items, yeah, it makes
a huge difference.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah, I think the time saving is a massive thing.
The kids on a personal level, Ithink the kids' allergies,
hobbies, hopes for theirfutures, yeah, they're such a
big conversation to have.
And I think it should just beone that is included in there.
And I think it's great that youare.
(28:02):
Yeah.
Have you seen or have you hadyour customers come and tell you
anything interesting thatthey've uh wanted to do in in
there?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
You can't really talk about that kind of data.
And in fact, I I mean, as asecurity measure, I can't even
necessarily see that kind ofdata.
What I can tell you about whatour product is for people.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, perfect.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Um, is and so I'd mentioned we c we actually close
and transfer bills andsubscriptions on behalf of the
incapacitated or the deceased.
And that's a service you canactually do even if you haven't
done the bill well.
And I think, you know, on on onmy what the fuck am I doing
with my life moments ago, Iclose and transfer bills on
behalf of them people.
This is this is an incrediblechild.
Um and yeah, you know, for thedozen or so families that we've
(28:48):
already been able to help, it isa big deal.
And just having someone else tohelp with that stuff is just so
much more meaningful than thanI ever thought it would be.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeah.
Um and well, because you youprobably didn't think about the
human element of that.
And you know, the grief is likea huge thing.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Absolutely.
You know, the mails that I getback from people when we're
dealing with some of thisperfunctory billing stuff, this
the mails that are sent, I lookat always look at the time, and
it's always like at 2 30 in themorning.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (29:23):
So it's like one of the last things.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
That's the preoccupation and that
restlessness and that ruminationthat you that we're able to
help with.
Yeah.
Goodness.
Um, that's the stuff that Ithink, okay.
There's no there's no job toosmall.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And I I think it is, it'sinteresting, even with that,
just talking to people aboutdeath is a hard thing.
100%.
Can you tell me how you're youwent to the funeral conference
and what do you what do Iactually talk about?
Speaker 2 (29:57):
What like what do you do when you think I I I mean,
listen, they're an amazing, anamaz I mean, it's a vocation,
right?
In many ways, that thatindustry, um, many generations
have been in the industry,right?
So you're born, you're borninto that industry.
I mean, I think they're anincredible uh group of people.
Um, and they have a really goodsense of humor about stuff.
(30:17):
Yeah.
Incredibly, they manage tobalance respect with humor.
And I think that for me hasbeen the biggest takeaway that
I've that I've got in them.
Is that, you know, you know,they they operate in these
deeply sad, you know, somberoccasions.
Um, but they have a really sortof strong sense of when there
are moments of lightness in thisspace.
(30:38):
And I I've learned a lot fromthem in terms of how to deal
with it, like picking up on thecues, and you know, I mean, you
know, I know through my ownexperience of it, there were
plenty of times we were justkilling ourselves laughing.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Um killing ourselves laughing.
There's there's there's there'sdeath, don't get me started on
death puns.
We'll be here all day.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
So um, what have you learned about what people really
want to be remembered for?
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Yeah, I mean, I think I think it is a you know,
through those conversations withmy father.
Yeah, yeah.
And through the process ofstarting another business at 48,
doing all of this lunacy again.
Like I I care about thebusiness, but I think I share
with a lot of people they careabout the relationships that
(31:26):
they've had.
Those are the things that thatthat define them.
The the love that the lovesthat they've had and have, those
are the things that people wantto that that they they they
cling to, and they're the thingsthat they want to have
remembered.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
And when you can get to that, that's a the beautiful
thing about that is that'savailable to all of us.
There's no but there's no senseof uh external achievement that
prevents you from having andcreating those beautiful
relationships in your life.
Yeah, I'm very democratic.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Yeah.
Um how do you think sharing ourstories can change how we live
today, not just how we areremembered tomorrow?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
In at any moment where you take a pause to
reflect, you are going to get acouple of things happen to you.
Firstly, you're gonna get thisnatural filtering effect of what
really matters and what reallystands out to you.
So it helps you focus on onthose things.
And the inverse applies aswell.
(32:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You get a really strong senseof, you know, uh, you know, what
really doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
And, you know, you, you know, if you're if you
direct your own obituary, whichthe platform allows you to do if
you want to, yeah.
Um, you know, if you go throughthat exercise, it's an
incredible act of of just beingin the present, really.
Yeah and living with uh you youimmediately begin to change
your priorities.
Who am I spending my time with?
Yeah, what am I spending mytime doing?
(32:58):
Um, and that's the realblessing of it.
And so rather than being, oh, Idon't want to think about this,
you think about okay, well,what's my story if I were to die
tomorrow?
It's an incredibly goodfiltering exercise.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah, I see, I think that it does teach you how you
can live with purpose, yeah,live intentionally and live in
the present.
Yeah, rather than just livingsome other life that you really
don't want to be living.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yep, 100%.
With rules that other peoplemade for you.
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Cuts to the crap, like cuts through the crap and
helps you crystallize how youwant to be living.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Does do you think this is by doing Bill Will, it
has helped you cut through thecrap?
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, you know, because as I wasabout to embark on yet another
startup that was going to costme so much more than anything
I'd ever done before in anindustry I knew nothing about.
Yeah, yeah.
That thing.
Um Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Don't worry about it.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Don't worry about it.
And I realized most of theissues were really my own fears
coming.
And how much, you know, andhaving just had the experiences
that I had, like I didn't wantto be making decisions based in
in fear anymore.
And that's, you know, this wasthe ultimate act of of of
(34:19):
fearlessness, really.
Yeah.
It's like, well, what have Igot to lose?
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah.
What if?
What if.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah, a a friend of mine plays a an amazing game
with their family when they'vegot any anxiety or insecurities
of what if.
Yeah.
And they get them to write downwhat if.
Yep.
You know, from the positives tothe negatives, but what if the
business failed?
What if, you know, and it doeshelp to go, why don't you just
have a crack?
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Have a crack because the worst case scenario is
often, even once you once youactually sort of give word to
your feelings, actually goodpsychological studies, that even
just giving words to yourfeelings mitigates them.
So if you actually name afeeling, you can actually
sometimes just calm it down alittle bit.
And particularly when it comesto fears or anxieties or
insecurities, or in my case,three of those things screaming
(35:06):
all at once, um, then you know,leaning into it and actually
giving the the giving the spaceto do that.
It's it's it's uh yeah, it's areally it's really powerful.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Um what's your biggest learning in doing this?
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Um that yeah, that I I think that nothing is as you
think it is going to be.
Um you have a you have to starta business like this with a
very clear vision of what youwant the product and the future
and the growth and all of thatstuff to be.
And I have a I'm very blessedwith a fantastic mentor.
And he said to me, So yeah,it's not gonna look anything
(35:44):
like that.
That's like, it's like a curse,you know.
Yeah, like great.
So what's it gonna look like?
It's like, dunno, but we'regonna do it anyway.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
And so letting go of having being able to have that
sort of duality of of having aclarity and a purpose and a
drive and holding it reallylightly and just accepting what
comes is I think Yeah, that's athat's a good way of doing it,
isn't it?
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Just being clear on what you want, but not how it's
going to be delivered.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yep.
Yeah, and just kind ofaccepting that so much.
Things change.
And it's out of your control.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Absolutely.
Out of your out of yourcontrol.
Okay, very quick questions.
Best piece of advice you'veever been given.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Uh it's more important to be happy than
right.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Okay, good.
Most overrated idea aboutsuccess.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Um that it is attached to any particular
metric or milestone that's gonnamake you a form engine happy.
That it's never, never gonna dothat for you.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah.
If your life had a taglineright now, what would it be?
Speaker 2 (36:54):
I'm in a romantic phase of my life, so I'm gonna
go, all you need, all you needis love.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Okay, great.
Song that that sums up yourmidlife vibe.
And don't do that one, don'tyou?
Speaker 2 (37:04):
No, no, I can't do it.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
I think ironically, the onethat I've my pump-up song at the
moment is is uh 70s disco trackcalled The Hustle.
Um, you know, with the panpipes.
Um and like the amount ofhustle that I've had to whip out
of the, you know, like we to wemet in our 20s when we thought
we had game and hustle.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
And so now I need a song to kind of get me back
there.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Um, dream dinner guest, did her alive, uh, to
talk about purpose and legacy.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Uh I'm South African, as you can hear.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
I would have to say Nelson Mandela.
Oh, yes.
Because particularly now in aworld where we are so unable to
get past our particulardifferences and focus on the
bigger picture.
Um, that was his incrediblelegacy.
And we need so much more ofthat in the world right now.
So I'd love to get someperspective, wisdom, and
goodness.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
I wonder what he would say.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
I think he'd be very sad.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
I reckon he would be too.
Yeah.
Like really sad.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Really sad.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Because it's gone back such a long way.
We can have another podcast.
Yeah.
Seriously.
Um, okay.
So, what's one truth aboutsuccess, meaning, or legacy that
people need to stop ignoringand actually believe?
Speaker 2 (38:24):
That it can wait.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yeah.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
That it can wait.
Yeah.
Um, it can't wait.
Uh it needs to, you can you canmake it happen today.
And uh and that your diff your,you know, whatever it is that
you choose to leave behind, uh,it can't wait till tomorrow
before you start figuring outwhat it is that it's gonna be.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
I think that is a great thing, isn't it?
It's actually like start today.
Start now.
Start now.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Start small.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Start small.
What's that one thing insideyou that you just want to, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Yeah.
What would yours be?
Mine at the moment would be joyor vibrancy.
Or being sorry, joy or vibrant.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
And that would be like just trying to spread that
warmth and that happiness.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yeah, for me, it's connection.
Yeah, right.
You know, um, the connectionsthat I make with people on a
day-to-day basis, this has beenlike so much fun.
Yeah.
Um, but they can those the itis those those the great thing
about pushing yourself out ofyour comfort zone in this way is
that you get to meet lots ofdifferent people in lots of
different domains.
And sometimes, you know, it canfeel like you're very much on
(39:36):
the outside of what what ishappening.
But when those moments ofconnection happen and people get
you and what you're doing, andthe kind of person that you
really are, that's that'severything.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
That's a good one.
That's a good one.
And it's, you know, it ringstrue because I was on the phone
to one of my good friends justas I was walking in here, and we
were talking about thatconnection and finding your fit
and you know, questioningsometimes whether you are in
that right fit.
Okay.
You know, the connections don'thave to be in all areas of your
(40:10):
life.
No, but they have to be in theones that matter.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Yeah.
And then, you know, as the bigfive-o approaches, you know,
it's the first person youconnect with is yourself, right?
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah.
Well, and that's it.
Like we we forget that, youknow, you are in your life with
you.
Yeah.
And if you are not connected toyou and what you're thinking and
being present with you, that's,you know, that's a big one.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
100%.
Okay.
Okay, I think finish.
Before we wrap, if you couldchallenge me to do something
before I turn 50, something thatpushes me, makes me think, or
just questions what I'm doing,what would it be?
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Um challenging you.
Because you see, I'm gonna saysomething, even though I think
you're pretty fearless from whatI know of you.
But I know that none of us areas fearless as we appear to be.
Yeah.
And so, and you've made somebig changes in in your in your
life, but there is always anopportunity for the next time
(41:16):
you're feeling torn in adecision.
Yeah, um, I want you to leaninto the fear that is making you
torn and and acting as if thatfear didn't exist.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
So the next time you're feeling hesitation, it's
probably gonna be fear.
And you're you you you have tojust pick up that fear and put
it consciously to the side.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Okay.
I've got something in mind forthat.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
I was like, is that too esoteric?
And you're like, no, I knowwhat we're doing there.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
No, no, no, I know exactly what it is.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Do you yeah, yeah, something making you a little
edgy?
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
So if fear had no role to playfor you, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
What would you do?
Speaker 2 (41:54):
What would your decision be?
Speaker 1 (41:55):
And see, it's interesting because fear, like I
normally couldn't give a shitwhat anyone thinks or whatever,
because it's all more about me.
But there is still that fearthat sometimes does drive you.
Yeah.
And go, well, what if?
What if?
Back to that what if.
Yeah.
What if?
What if it fails?
But what if it works out?
Speaker 2 (42:14):
So I'm telling you right now that fear doesn't
exist.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
The fear doesn't exist, and just do it.
Go forth.
Go forth and see what happens.
Great.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Um, have I missed anything?
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Absolutely not.
Okay, good.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Okay, good, good.
Um, Colin, thank you forbringing your honesty, your
depth, and humor to aconversation that could easily
have been heavy.
Uh, but somehow you make itinspiring, practical, and human.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
All about connections, which is what you
want.
Um, you remind us that successisn't a finishing line, it's a
feeling.
And legacy, which I really dothink we need to start talking
about this more.
And just the small things inthe legacy.
It's not what we leave behind,but it's how we show up while
(43:07):
we're here.
Through the stories we tell,the people we love, and the
choices we make every day.
We've you've shown that midlifeisn't about slowing down
because you're obviouslyspeeding up.
Uh, it's about doing thingswith more clarity, compassion,
and meaning.
And if anyone is curious aboutstarting or capturing your own
(43:30):
stories and wisdom, check outBill Will.
It's a beautiful reminder thatour stories are our legacies and
you can actually start onemodule at a time.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
You like that?
Speaker 2 (43:42):
You love it.
I love that.
And we're gonna be that's gonnabe all over my socials.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Um, and if this episode made you pause, smile,
or think a little bit deeperabout getting your shit sorted
and making sure that your kids'lives are easier at the other
end.
Share it with someone who mightneed to hear it too.
Or just start getting your shitorganized and start now.
(44:08):
Start building your legacy,start planning, start doing it.
Because fuck, we're nearly 50and isn't it amazing.
Hi, I'm Dom Hind, and f*ck, I'm nearly 50.
And lately I've been thinking alot about success.
Not the versions we were soldin our 20s, the titles, the late
nights, the awards, but thekind that actually feels good.
The kind that makes you feelproud, not just productive.
Because somewhere along theway, success started to look a
(00:21):
lot like exhaustion disguised asachievement.
And I don't know about you, butI'm craving something
different.
More meaning, less noise, morefreedom, less proving.
And that brings me to today'sguest, someone I've known since
those wild agency days when workwas life.
Colin Joel and I workedtogether back in the good old
(00:42):
days at Wonderman and Wynar,where we were pitching nonstop
weekend after weekend.
We were young, caffeinated,although mine was Red Bull,
constantly chasing the next win,and let's be honest, completely
forgetting what an actual lifewas.
We were in a pitch-winningstreak so strong, it was so
addictive, but also completelyunsustainable.
(01:05):
Fast forward a few decades, andColin's journey has evolved in
the most brilliant way.
He's gone from building brandsto building meaning, from
helping companies tell storiesto helping people capture their
own through Bill Will, aplatform that helps us leave
behind something that actuallymatters: our stories, our
values, our lesson, and ourlove.
(01:26):
Colin's one of those rarehumans who can make you laugh,
think deeply, and question yourentire definition of success all
in the same breath.
This conversation is aboutredefining what it means to make
it, the beauty of midlifereinvention and how we can live
and lead with more purpose,honesty, and joy.
Because fuck, I'm nearly 50,and maybe the goal now isn't to
(01:51):
do more, it's to do whatmatters.
Colin Joel is a strategist,speaker, coach, and the founder
of Bill Will, a platform thathelps people capture and share
(02:13):
what truly matters, theirstories, beliefs, and life
lessons.
After decades working with someof the world's biggest brands,
from Optus to Combank, Colinrealized that while we're
brilliant at building careers,we're terrible at building
legacies.
Not the kind made of money, butthe kind made of meaning.
(02:38):
Bill Will is his answer tothat.
It helps people make sense ofwhat really matters through
three very human dimensions (02:44):
the financial, the practical, and
the personal.
Because legacy isn't just aboutwhat happens when we're gone.
It's about the small detailsthat make up our lives now.
The quirks, the humor, thelittle acts of kindness, the
things people actually remember.
(03:06):
From forgotten passwords toprobate paperwork.
Colin's work reminds us thatlegacy isn't built in the big
moments, it's tucked away in thesmall ones.
If you've ever hit pause andwondered what's all this really
(03:29):
for, this episode is for you andwill hit home.
Colin Billy Joel.
Welcome to Fuck, I'm nearly 15.
If someone met you at a dinnerparty and you couldn't say
founder, how would you describeyourself?
Colin Jowell (03:46):
It's a hilarious question because I'd never say
founder.
Dom Hind (03:49):
I know, I know, but you know.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
But um, I, you know, if I was trying to impress
somebody, I would probably sayI'm an applied behavioral
scientist.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Um, but I'm a serial entrepreneur.
I've done a series ofbusinesses for myself and with
my partner.
Um, and now I have a littletech business that helps people
define what kind of legacythey'd like to leave behind for
the loved ones.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I love I love the whole thing about legacy.
Can you just talk about whatlegacy means to you?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, legacy, it's it can be it can be a bit of a
scary word because I think wecan get trapped into, I suppose,
the bigger things that we'vedone in our lives and the the
this myth that we're somehowgoing to be remembered in some
way, shape, or form one, two,three generations from now.
Legacy is really about uh forme, it's about the love and the
(04:38):
relationships that you that youleave behind and leaving behind
memories that are both, youknow, positive but also
pain-free.
And I think we'll talk aboutthose things in sort of separate
measure because they're equallyimportant.
And we think about we thinkabout the the the positive
stuff, but we also there's a lotof pain that can be
inadvertently left behind ifwe're not if we're not careful
(04:59):
about it.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
What's one moment in your lifethat made you go?
Fuck, something has to change.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, I mean, I'd have to say losing my dad in
2020.
Um we were, I suppose, youknow, lucky to a certain extent
that we knew that he was he wassick.
And so he was in a hospitalnearby, and I got to see him
pretty much every single day,which is something I hadn't done
since my childhood.
Yeah.
And a lot of the conversationswe had talked about the life
(05:33):
that he'd led and the legacythat he was leaving.
And he was a man who, in myestimation, my dad was my hero,
done so many amazing things, andyet he was so uncertain about
what legacy he was leavingbehind.
And so it really, I was like, Idon't think I'm ever going to
achieve half as much as as hedid, and he's still worried
(05:53):
about this stuff.
I need to start focusing on ondifferent things and going,
yeah, I'm I'm living my life inall the wrong, uh tasting all of
the wrong things, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, I can understand that.
Um, you've had a fascinatingcareer working with big brands,
big egos, big ideas.
What was the tipping pointwhere you realized success
wasn't just what you build, butwhat you leave?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, I mean, so I went through an experience where
I'd built an agency, I'd soldthat agency, um, and then I'd
left the business that I sold itto and went back into working
for another agency.
And don't get me wrong, greatplace, lovely people, all the
things that I'd left were werewere still there.
Um, but I just looked at thekind of work that I was doing,
(06:45):
and you know, advertising for mehad kind of lost its uh its its
stature, I guess.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Sparkle.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, I mean, I remember atime early in our careers when,
you know, you could turn on thetelevision and you could two out
of the three ads with a giveand break would be work that
you'd had a hand in, and thatfelt like something.
And then I was like, even if Iwere to achieve that again
today, what would that be?
What would that be?
Speaker 1 (07:12):
It's different, different meaning.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Totally, totally.
And then you look back on thethings that the process of
getting to that.
Well, what what what's part ofthat?
Well, that was buildingbusinesses and helping people
get started in their careers andyou know, changing lives in
that kind of way.
Um, and you know, occasionallyI'd I'll get um notes from
people who I'd helped early outin their career, and that's the
(07:35):
stuff that really matters.
So it's less about this the thework, the recognition, awards,
and who gives a fuck, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Totally, totally.
Um, have you found yourselfchasing something you thought
you wanted, then realized itwasn't actually yours to chase?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, when I sold thebusiness the the first time I
sold it to a consulting company,yeah, and that was I'd started
my life as a consultant.
And if if you read anyone's CBand they've left consulting
after two years, it wasn'tnecessarily their choice, is all
I'm gonna say.
Um, and so 20 years later I wasback in this consulting
environment, and you know, therewas this sort of you know, you
(08:17):
know, if I'd wanted to chase thepast of my partner again, and I
was like, it's the last thingin the world I want to do.
Um, it was the first time I'dever looked ahead and gone the
next step, the logical next stepis not what I want at all.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, I can totally understand that.
Um so you you've spent yearshelping brands tell better
stories.
What made you want to helppeople tell theirs?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Oh, I mean, I think I think firstly, everyone has a
story to tell right?
Yeah.
And yet, if you sit someonedown and you ask them to tell
that story, most people don'teven know where to start.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
And I I and I think I watched that to a certain
extent with with my dad.
And Bill will, in many ways, isinspired by the all the things
that he did do in that regard,but also some of the things that
he failed to do in that regard.
Um, but I just realized if youknow, we've all got things that
we need to pass on.
Some of it will prevent painfrom happening, and some of it
(09:25):
will bring immense comfort, andyet most of us don't know where
to start.
And we don't, it's not easy andit's scary and it's
intimidating.
And so I looked around themarket, as it were, and I was
like, oh well, maybe thisthere's something that's out
there, and none of them reallydid it in the way that I thought
it could be, yeah, it could bedone.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Okay, interesting.
For anyone who hasn't heard ofBill Will, how do you describe
it in your own words?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Um, we talk about it in terms of the financial and
the practical and the personal,and you can leave critical
information that will eitherspare your loved ones endless
hours of searching and pain anduncertainty, or bring them
immense comfort in and lettingthem understand that your wishes
and your hopes and your dreamsfor them.
Yeah.
And we all have people in ourlives, whether it's kids that
(10:22):
you're looking after or orparents that you might be
leaving behind, which is in somecases it's both.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Um, and we go, okay, well, if I wasn't here, then
what?
Then what?
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah.
And it's interesting.
I um, prompted by thisdiscussion, I did go through and
start doing it for me.
Well, it's gone front.
You know, I've already got mywill and my letters of wishes,
all of that's already done.
But just it it is confrontingthinking about what is the
message that I want my kids tobe left with?
What is something that I wantthem to know?
(10:55):
Like it literally is what isthe knowledge and the wealth of
wisdom that you are passing onto them so that they can
remember that?
Because you're right, like two,three, four generations are not
going to remember us.
No, like unless you actuallydid change the world, they are
not going to remember theeveryday people.
No.
(11:15):
But you do have a role to playin building their foundations as
a human, 100%, which then willhave a flow-on effect to the
people that they surroundthemselves with.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
100%.
And there's no real vehicle,like you don't, and it doesn't
have to be war and peace, youknow.
No.
Where we're at with with thehow we solve for that particular
problem on the app is well,this is actually where we've
actually started using some AIto help you.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Because, okay, firstly, your wishes for your
kids are going to change fromyear to year.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
And then from day to day.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
And also the crap that you accumulate as well.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Like 100% needs to be included.
From so we take people on asort of a it's called Bill,
obviously.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
And it takes people on this sort of journey of okay,
well, let's get the life anddeath stuff out of the way.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
So that's why the name Okay, right.
And now I get it.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Well, it started as a will for your bills and your
bank accounts.
Now we've turned Bill into awhole new creature.
And so Bill will talk youthrough the life and death
stuff, like what are theallergies that are going to kill
your child that people shouldknow about?
Yeah.
Um, but then also what are thethings that bring them comfort,
and then guide them into theconversation around, well, you
know, are there any habits orchores or attitudes towards
(12:27):
technology or what do you wantfor their education?
So it sort of guides you in asort of a very gentle kind of
way, starting with the basicstuff that you go, yeah, I
should probably do this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And someone should know this.
Yeah.
Um, because you know, what wefound even between couples, the
information isn't necessarilysymmetrically shared.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yes.
Yeah, I can I can imagine that.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
And so having the bot kind of lead the conversation
is kind of it it means that it'snot as confrontational because
they're um, you know, they'rebeing asked questions mutually
together.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Um, what do you think?
See, I think this is it's sointeresting that, you know, when
I talk to people about BillWill, they'll be like, oh, it's
just too confronting.
How do you get around that?
Like even my nan, who's 93, andor 93 tomorrow, um, she doesn't
want to talk about death.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
You know, I mean, I I almost understand it more at
your nan's age than I do atours.
And I know that sounds like aninverse logic.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Because at our age, actually, the confrontation of
it, I try to get people aroundreframing it.
It's not about the imminence ofyour death.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah.
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
It is actually about the complexity of your life.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Or what your loved ones weren't do would to do if
you weren't here to give themthe mental rotix of all of that
information that you just keepcarrying around in your head.
So it's not about whetheryou're 50 or 60 or 70 or 80, but
how complicated is your lifeand how easy would it be for
someone to pick that up, pickthat stuff up.
I mean, I joke that I inventedthis because if the, you know,
(14:03):
if I something were to havehappened to me and the lights
went out, that would be thefirst time my partner would know
that the electricity hadn'tbeen.
So, you know, you know, youknow, and and then you multiply
that by that's one that's onefield of above 1500 that we
collect.
So, you know, and that stuffbecomes genuine pain.
Yeah.
Genuine pain.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Do you think in doing this you've realized just how
overcomplicated we make ourlives?
Totally.
And how much shit that weaccumulate, and how much stuff
that we just add and add and adand add and don't need to?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Oh, 100%.
I mean, I think there's thisreally basic aha moment.
So one of the cool things onthe app is that it connects to
your bank accounts and it findsall of your bills for you,
right?
Yeah.
And so, and everyone,everyone's, you know, I'm not
gonna use the streamer brandname, but they have a they have
that moment where they're I'mpaying for these.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
And then there's this uh another module where they've
got all of their possessionswhere they can be set to
sentimental possessions.
Of course, you know, ifcataloguing these things becomes
a pain in the derriere, whatare you even doing hanging on to
these things?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Exactly.
But also the time involved inmaintaining the things, you go,
Well uh are they actually addingjoy or are they just being a
maintenance thing that I need tocarry on for my family?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Well, one of the things, and putting on the
behavioral science hat for asec, you know, we become
attenuated to things bothpositive and negative really,
really quickly.
So if we have something reallybad happen into our lives, one
of our best survival instinctsis our ability to adjust.
But unfortunately, that alsoworks with the things and the
stuff.
You stop looking around the thethe house and seeing the
(15:38):
beautiful artwork or the thethings that you worked so hard
to achieve.
You just accept that they'rethere.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
And then and then if there's too much of it, it can
become oppressive.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Um, and so yeah, I just it it's a it's a way of
sort of murry condoing youradministrative life.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
And I find it quite satisfying, but you know, about
30 to 40 percent of thepopulation find it satisfying.
About 34 to 40 percent ofpeople couldn't give it away.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
They don't care, they don't care.
They're just like, whatever.
I'm happy to accumulate.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
People often say to me, Oh, what do I care?
I'll be dead.
But they go, you know, okay,that's all right.
You know, but for the rest ofus who care about the people we
leave behind, that's what we'rethere for.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
It's interesting.
So one of my really goodfriends, both of her parents
passed at separate times, andthe admin load that she now
carries in managing it.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
100%, it's a lot.
It's a full-time job.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Like it, like uh it actually is a full-time job.
And the the hard thing is, isyou know that they love you, but
leaving all this shit behind isactually really selfish because
it's leaving it to them toclear it up.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
100%.
I mean, we reckon on theplatform if you if you
persevere, you have to, andthat's why we've built it in
this modular way, is becauselike do them, you know, like a
module a day max.
Yeah.
Maybe even two or three a week,and you'll get there in a
couple of weeks.
Um, but you know, for everyfive minutes on you spend on the
platform, you're probablysaving your loved one about an
(17:13):
hour or two hours of hunting.
Right?
Think about it.
If you didn't know who theelectricity was with, yeah,
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Where would you go to the you have to go through
emails and you'd have to likewhich email can't is it invoice?
Is it like by company?
Like there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
So we reckon we can save a family between 200 to 300
hours of hunting and in somecases pure uncertainty.
Like one of the first things afamily will fight about if it's
not clear is what's your funeralplan?
How would you do that?
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Well, I mean, well, because I mean it happens within
the first seven days.
100%.
Like, and you're already inthat grief stage and 100% not
knowing what to do.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And religious views are over here, the family may be
over there, and somewhere inbetween a plan needs to be made
at a time when you cannot make aplan.
And so, you know, that's oftenone of the first places that
families start fighting.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
And then they continue with money counter.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
The money doesn't make it better.
Money does not make thatbetter.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Why do you think we avoid thinking about what we'll
leave behind until it's toolate?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I just think people don't think about things in
terms of the complexity of theirlives.
I think they can think aboutit, you know, there's this great
Steve Jobs commencement thingwhere he talks about, so it
says, you know, if you if youact like every day is going to
be your last, yeah, one dayyou'll be right.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
And it's a really good, and you know, he, you
know, in that in that speech, hereally talks about the fact
that, you know, thinking aboutthis consistently is one of the
best ways of, I think he says,avoiding the trap of thinking we
have anything to lose.
And I found that really one ofthe profound things around sort
of driving that is that we avoiddoing it because we don't want
to think.
We think that by thinking aboutit, we'll invite it into our
(18:55):
but I view it in completely thedifferent way.
Like when was the last time youimagined a situation and it
happened exactly as you thoughtit was going to?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
There's always something.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
There's always something different.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
So if you unless you spend the time manifesting and
manifesting.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I've never manifested accurately in my life.
It's always just a little bitdifferent.
Like it's it's always great,but it's just not what I
anticipated.
And the same goes with death.
Like you can't manifest theperfect death.
I mean, you know, if you wereto receive a diagnosis tomorrow,
yeah, would you and think aboutyou as future you having
finished the bill will havingdone everything in its place.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
I'd be so happy.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
So pleased because you'd get those last days, then
however long you could travel orgo dancing or doing, or that's
what you want to be spendingthat time doing.
So it's not a you know, andthat's why I go, it's I get it
if you're 70.
Like if you're 70 and you knowyour life has kind of shut down
and it's simplified, and youwould rather not think about it,
or 80 or 90 these days.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
But at our age, at the fucking nearly 50 phase,
actually, this is when like timewould be really better spent.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, doing that.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Doing other things.
Yeah.
So interleave the I'vehopefully I've inspired you to
do at least the other threemodules, do that.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I'm definitely going to.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
You know, do it interleave with the other
things, and then when the timecomes, you're just like, oh
great.
I can I can do the things thatI want to do.
I can spend time connectingwith the people that I love.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yeah.
And actually leaving a bit moreof a legacy with them.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
And creating those memories when you still have the
time.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, rather than stressing about the admin you've
got.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Rather than going well, it's my bank accounts.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Says no one.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
You said before that how we live is how we'll be
remembered.
What do you think most peopleget wrong about that?
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah.
Okay, so not Steve Jobs, didn'tinvent the iPhone, not Romeo
and Michelle, I didn't invent apost-it either.
People think it's about the bigthings.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
And it is not about the big things.
So in fact, I know that mysoon-to-be husband at the end of
the year is not going toremember uh even anything I've
done with Bill Will.
He's not going to rememberthat.
The moment he'll remember me iswhen he hears a really bad pun
laden dad joke.
And and he's gonna wish thatI'd either told it to him or
(21:09):
that he could tell it to me.
And those are the it's in thosesmall details that our true
legacy lies.
Yeah.
The things that make us thatthat are where our true
personality exists.
Um, and then those moments thatthat that ultimately create a
last a lifetime.
Yeah.
Even on those big trips that wetake, is it you know, seeing
(21:30):
Big Ben or was it the ice creamyou had walking down the street?
It's always the ice cream.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Always ice cream, particularly if it's like
lavender flavor, fantastic.
Yeah.
Um, if someone listening feelslike they're just getting
through the day, how can theystart living with more purpose
right now without it feelinglike another job on the list?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah.
I mean, I don't think about itlike purpose, go small.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Come right back to the present.
We don't create any change inour lives by focusing on these
giant goals.
We the most effective way tocreate change in your life is to
do the smallest thing possibleon a consistent basis.
And so it is again, it's notabout the big things, it's about
okay, well, what is the onething I can do for myself today?
(22:20):
Whether it's go to go to thegym or you know, call someone,
call someone or spend an extrahalf an hour with the kids or
whatever.
What is the smallest possiblething that you can do that will
add meaning and value to yourlife?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
And just keep and then don't change, keep doing
that until you think ofsomething else to do.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Um, so starting small and staying small, and all the
habit change guys will talkabout this in that way.
Rather than thinking about, oh,I'm not living my purpose and I
need to find what this thingis.
And it comes clear over time.
And then you suddenly realizeactually was there all along.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
In the little reaction, the little moments we
have.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
And I think, yeah, even with that, I always ask
myself, where can I find thejoy?
Where is the joy in this?
Like, because the joy, with thejoy comes those small moments
of just depth and love withinyou.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
Um legacy across threedimensions the financial, the
practical, the personal.
Can you, what, what, why?
(23:21):
What do I mean?
What are you talking about?
What are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, like the yeah, surely the will covers this and
you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Should we just be be done?
Speaker 2 (23:28):
No, well, you know, little known facts.
So let's start with thefinancial stuff, because that's
what people really think aboutthe most.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Um, well, even if there's when someone dies, the
number one thing I think mostpeople would think about is what
like the money.
It's the money.
What is what's the what's themoney?
What's the stuff?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
And yet there is no record of your bills, uh, your
bank accounts and your will,right?
Nor should there be, right?
Okay.
And little known fact, mostwills can't be executed without
something called probate, whichis a grant that the will is
valid.
And in order to get a grant ofprobate, you need an accurate
statement of your assets andliabilities.
Um well, where is that?
And how are you gonna get that?
So we help people with aroadmap to that.
(24:06):
Um, we are open banking enabledso we can actually provide the
estate with accurate informationon cloud.
Yeah.
So they're not writing to 20banks.
Uh, you know, and most of thestuff, you know, uh suffers from
what I call the Ghostbustersproblem.
Like, who are you gonna call?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Right?
Like you just so no start.
Um where's the wallet?
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Exactly.
Are you gonna start flippingthrough the credit tape?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
No, it's like where's the phone?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah.
So that's the financial stuff.
And without the financialstuff, the rest of the world
can't even start.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Um, and then there's the practical stuff.
And the practical stuff, we'vegot these complicated, invisible
digital lives.
Time was you could sit by themailbox and someone's life would
eventually be passing through.
But now you're searchingthrough emails if you've got the
password to the computer that'sprobably operating on a
fingerprint.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
And so you can't really cut a fingerprint.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, we don't want to be, we don't want to be
getting into that business.
So, you know, we deal withthings like, you know, where are
the password stored, yeah, youknow, uh, secure solutions for
all of that.
Um, what are where are the keyonline accounts that you you
that you you you you want tomanage, like you know, this
notion of sort of the Facebookghost that comes back to remind
you that they're gone once ayear, like that thing.
(25:18):
And then yeah, all of the thewater and the lights and the uh
and the utilities and the phonebills, and and we help people
with all of that stuff.
Um, you know, and what peopledon't realize is they're oh shut
shut the phone bill, the shutthe mobile phone down, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yeah, you still get a monthly bill.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, but but you actually, in a lot of cases, you
need it for two factorauthentication.
That kind of stuff.
Otherwise, it becomes wildlycomplicated.
Yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
And so I forgot about two factor.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, so when we get an instruction to close or
transfer of mobile phone, we go,are you sure?
Yeah, can we sort of can we canwe pause that until you've done
everything else?
Yeah, yeah.
Like the last thing you shoulddo.
Same goes with cloud accounts.
You know, people go, uh, shutthe Apple account.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
And they go, okay, so all that data you have the
data, the photos, yeah, the earcomes.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
We're we're like a little bit of friction in that
space, in the family space.
And then there's the personalstuff.
And the personal stuff iseverything from you know,
heartfelt letters of of of trueletters of wishes in terms of
your aspirations for your kids.
Or, you know, I mean, I don'thave kids, but I do have if I
were to die today, I would wantto make sure that there was a
(26:27):
plan in place for someone tolook after my mum.
Yeah, um, and so and and I havefriends.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You do, you do, yeah.
You got to do that.
But I care about too.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Um, and so there's something for everybody, and you
know, and I'm a you know, madcat daddy, so that needs to be,
you know.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
The pets.
The pets are a big thing.
Yeah, they are a big thing.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah, 100%.
So yeah, it's uh it's a lot tothink about, but one module a
day.
That's all.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Um, what are some of those oh shit moments people
don't think about until it's toolate?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we've kind of
covered, I think we've kind ofgone through that in terms of it
is about the specific detailsof any given any given aspect of
your life, whether it is thefinancial or the personal, or
you know, maybe you've nominateda guardian for your child.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Um see what I like, I want to change it, right?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
100%.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Yeah.
And if you were, you know, butyou know, if if, you know, God
forbid, neither you or yourpartner were here to pass on
that information.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, yeah.
It's tough.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Where do you start?
Yeah.
And you'd be amazed how quicklyeven just providing people with
a basic roadmap on some of thebig ticket items, yeah, it makes
a huge difference.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah, I think the time saving is a massive thing.
The kids on a personal level, Ithink the kids' allergies,
hobbies, hopes for theirfutures, yeah, they're such a
big conversation to have.
And I think it should just beone that is included in there.
And I think it's great that youare.
(28:02):
Yeah.
Have you seen or have you hadyour customers come and tell you
anything interesting thatthey've uh wanted to do in in
there?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
You can't really talk about that kind of data.
And in fact, I I mean, as asecurity measure, I can't even
necessarily see that kind ofdata.
What I can tell you about whatour product is for people.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, perfect.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Um, is and so I'd mentioned we c we actually close
and transfer bills andsubscriptions on behalf of the
incapacitated or the deceased.
And that's a service you canactually do even if you haven't
done the bill well.
And I think, you know, on on onmy what the fuck am I doing
with my life moments ago, Iclose and transfer bills on
behalf of them people.
This is this is an incrediblechild.
Um and yeah, you know, for thedozen or so families that we've
(28:48):
already been able to help, it isa big deal.
And just having someone else tohelp with that stuff is just so
much more meaningful than thanI ever thought it would be.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeah.
Um and well, because you youprobably didn't think about the
human element of that.
And you know, the grief is likea huge thing.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Absolutely.
You know, the mails that I getback from people when we're
dealing with some of thisperfunctory billing stuff, this
the mails that are sent, I lookat always look at the time, and
it's always like at 2 30 in themorning.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (29:23):
So it's like one of the last things.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
That's the preoccupation and that
restlessness and that ruminationthat you that we're able to
help with.
Yeah.
Goodness.
Um, that's the stuff that Ithink, okay.
There's no there's no job toosmall.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And I I think it is, it'sinteresting, even with that,
just talking to people aboutdeath is a hard thing.
100%.
Can you tell me how you're youwent to the funeral conference
and what do you what do Iactually talk about?
Speaker 2 (29:57):
What like what do you do when you think I I I mean,
listen, they're an amazing, anamaz I mean, it's a vocation,
right?
In many ways, that thatindustry, um, many generations
have been in the industry,right?
So you're born, you're borninto that industry.
I mean, I think they're anincredible uh group of people.
Um, and they have a really goodsense of humor about stuff.
(30:17):
Yeah.
Incredibly, they manage tobalance respect with humor.
And I think that for me hasbeen the biggest takeaway that
I've that I've got in them.
Is that, you know, you know,they they operate in these
deeply sad, you know, somberoccasions.
Um, but they have a really sortof strong sense of when there
are moments of lightness in thisspace.
(30:38):
And I I've learned a lot fromthem in terms of how to deal
with it, like picking up on thecues, and you know, I mean, you
know, I know through my ownexperience of it, there were
plenty of times we were justkilling ourselves laughing.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Um killing ourselves laughing.
There's there's there's there'sdeath, don't get me started on
death puns.
We'll be here all day.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
So um, what have you learned about what people really
want to be remembered for?
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Yeah, I mean, I think I think it is a you know,
through those conversations withmy father.
Yeah, yeah.
And through the process ofstarting another business at 48,
doing all of this lunacy again.
Like I I care about thebusiness, but I think I share
with a lot of people they careabout the relationships that
(31:26):
they've had.
Those are the things that thatthat define them.
The the love that the lovesthat they've had and have, those
are the things that people wantto that that they they they
cling to, and they're the thingsthat they want to have
remembered.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
And when you can get to that, that's a the beautiful
thing about that is that'savailable to all of us.
There's no but there's no senseof uh external achievement that
prevents you from having andcreating those beautiful
relationships in your life.
Yeah, I'm very democratic.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Yeah.
Um how do you think sharing ourstories can change how we live
today, not just how we areremembered tomorrow?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
In at any moment where you take a pause to
reflect, you are going to get acouple of things happen to you.
Firstly, you're gonna get thisnatural filtering effect of what
really matters and what reallystands out to you.
So it helps you focus on onthose things.
And the inverse applies aswell.
(32:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You get a really strong senseof, you know, uh, you know, what
really doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
And, you know, you, you know, if you're if you
direct your own obituary, whichthe platform allows you to do if
you want to, yeah.
Um, you know, if you go throughthat exercise, it's an
incredible act of of just beingin the present, really.
Yeah and living with uh you youimmediately begin to change
your priorities.
Who am I spending my time with?
Yeah, what am I spending mytime doing?
(32:58):
Um, and that's the realblessing of it.
And so rather than being, oh, Idon't want to think about this,
you think about okay, well,what's my story if I were to die
tomorrow?
It's an incredibly goodfiltering exercise.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah, I see, I think that it does teach you how you
can live with purpose, yeah,live intentionally and live in
the present.
Yeah, rather than just livingsome other life that you really
don't want to be living.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yep, 100%.
With rules that other peoplemade for you.
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Cuts to the crap, like cuts through the crap and
helps you crystallize how youwant to be living.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Does do you think this is by doing Bill Will, it
has helped you cut through thecrap?
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, you know, because as I wasabout to embark on yet another
startup that was going to costme so much more than anything
I'd ever done before in anindustry I knew nothing about.
Yeah, yeah.
That thing.
Um Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Don't worry about it.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Don't worry about it.
And I realized most of theissues were really my own fears
coming.
And how much, you know, andhaving just had the experiences
that I had, like I didn't wantto be making decisions based in
in fear anymore.
And that's, you know, this wasthe ultimate act of of of
(34:19):
fearlessness, really.
Yeah.
It's like, well, what have Igot to lose?
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah.
What if?
What if.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah, a a friend of mine plays a an amazing game
with their family when they'vegot any anxiety or insecurities
of what if.
Yeah.
And they get them to write downwhat if.
Yep.
You know, from the positives tothe negatives, but what if the
business failed?
What if, you know, and it doeshelp to go, why don't you just
have a crack?
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Have a crack because the worst case scenario is
often, even once you once youactually sort of give word to
your feelings, actually goodpsychological studies, that even
just giving words to yourfeelings mitigates them.
So if you actually name afeeling, you can actually
sometimes just calm it down alittle bit.
And particularly when it comesto fears or anxieties or
insecurities, or in my case,three of those things screaming
(35:06):
all at once, um, then you know,leaning into it and actually
giving the the giving the spaceto do that.
It's it's it's uh yeah, it's areally it's really powerful.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Um what's your biggest learning in doing this?
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Um that yeah, that I I think that nothing is as you
think it is going to be.
Um you have a you have to starta business like this with a
very clear vision of what youwant the product and the future
and the growth and all of thatstuff to be.
And I have a I'm very blessedwith a fantastic mentor.
And he said to me, So yeah,it's not gonna look anything
(35:44):
like that.
That's like, it's like a curse,you know.
Yeah, like great.
So what's it gonna look like?
It's like, dunno, but we'regonna do it anyway.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
And so letting go of having being able to have that
sort of duality of of having aclarity and a purpose and a
drive and holding it reallylightly and just accepting what
comes is I think Yeah, that's athat's a good way of doing it,
isn't it?
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Just being clear on what you want, but not how it's
going to be delivered.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yep.
Yeah, and just kind ofaccepting that so much.
Things change.
And it's out of your control.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Absolutely.
Out of your out of yourcontrol.
Okay, very quick questions.
Best piece of advice you'veever been given.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Uh it's more important to be happy than
right.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Okay, good.
Most overrated idea aboutsuccess.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Um that it is attached to any particular
metric or milestone that's gonnamake you a form engine happy.
That it's never, never gonna dothat for you.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah.
If your life had a taglineright now, what would it be?
Speaker 2 (36:54):
I'm in a romantic phase of my life, so I'm gonna
go, all you need, all you needis love.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Okay, great.
Song that that sums up yourmidlife vibe.
And don't do that one, don'tyou?
Speaker 2 (37:04):
No, no, I can't do it.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
I think ironically, the onethat I've my pump-up song at the
moment is is uh 70s disco trackcalled The Hustle.
Um, you know, with the panpipes.
Um and like the amount ofhustle that I've had to whip out
of the, you know, like we to wemet in our 20s when we thought
we had game and hustle.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
And so now I need a song to kind of get me back
there.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Um, dream dinner guest, did her alive, uh, to
talk about purpose and legacy.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Uh I'm South African, as you can hear.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
I would have to say Nelson Mandela.
Oh, yes.
Because particularly now in aworld where we are so unable to
get past our particulardifferences and focus on the
bigger picture.
Um, that was his incrediblelegacy.
And we need so much more ofthat in the world right now.
So I'd love to get someperspective, wisdom, and
goodness.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
I wonder what he would say.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
I think he'd be very sad.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
I reckon he would be too.
Yeah.
Like really sad.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Really sad.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Because it's gone back such a long way.
We can have another podcast.
Yeah.
Seriously.
Um, okay.
So, what's one truth aboutsuccess, meaning, or legacy that
people need to stop ignoringand actually believe?
Speaker 2 (38:24):
That it can wait.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yeah.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
That it can wait.
Yeah.
Um, it can't wait.
Uh it needs to, you can you canmake it happen today.
And uh and that your diff your,you know, whatever it is that
you choose to leave behind, uh,it can't wait till tomorrow
before you start figuring outwhat it is that it's gonna be.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
I think that is a great thing, isn't it?
It's actually like start today.
Start now.
Start now.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Start small.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Start small.
What's that one thing insideyou that you just want to, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Yeah.
What would yours be?
Mine at the moment would be joyor vibrancy.
Or being sorry, joy or vibrant.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
And that would be like just trying to spread that
warmth and that happiness.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yeah, for me, it's connection.
Yeah, right.
You know, um, the connectionsthat I make with people on a
day-to-day basis, this has beenlike so much fun.
Yeah.
Um, but they can those the itis those those the great thing
about pushing yourself out ofyour comfort zone in this way is
that you get to meet lots ofdifferent people in lots of
different domains.
And sometimes, you know, it canfeel like you're very much on
(39:36):
the outside of what what ishappening.
But when those moments ofconnection happen and people get
you and what you're doing, andthe kind of person that you
really are, that's that'severything.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
That's a good one.
That's a good one.
And it's, you know, it ringstrue because I was on the phone
to one of my good friends justas I was walking in here, and we
were talking about thatconnection and finding your fit
and you know, questioningsometimes whether you are in
that right fit.
Okay.
You know, the connections don'thave to be in all areas of your
(40:10):
life.
No, but they have to be in theones that matter.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Yeah.
And then, you know, as the bigfive-o approaches, you know,
it's the first person youconnect with is yourself, right?
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah.
Well, and that's it.
Like we we forget that, youknow, you are in your life with
you.
Yeah.
And if you are not connected toyou and what you're thinking and
being present with you, that's,you know, that's a big one.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
100%.
Okay.
Okay, I think finish.
Before we wrap, if you couldchallenge me to do something
before I turn 50, something thatpushes me, makes me think, or
just questions what I'm doing,what would it be?
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Um challenging you.
Because you see, I'm gonna saysomething, even though I think
you're pretty fearless from whatI know of you.
But I know that none of us areas fearless as we appear to be.
Yeah.
And so, and you've made somebig changes in in your in your
life, but there is always anopportunity for the next time
(41:16):
you're feeling torn in adecision.
Yeah, um, I want you to leaninto the fear that is making you
torn and and acting as if thatfear didn't exist.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
So the next time you're feeling hesitation, it's
probably gonna be fear.
And you're you you you have tojust pick up that fear and put
it consciously to the side.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Okay.
I've got something in mind forthat.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
I was like, is that too esoteric?
And you're like, no, I knowwhat we're doing there.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
No, no, no, I know exactly what it is.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Do you yeah, yeah, something making you a little
edgy?
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
So if fear had no role to playfor you, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
What would you do?
Speaker 2 (41:54):
What would your decision be?
Speaker 1 (41:55):
And see, it's interesting because fear, like I
normally couldn't give a shitwhat anyone thinks or whatever,
because it's all more about me.
But there is still that fearthat sometimes does drive you.
Yeah.
And go, well, what if?
What if?
Back to that what if.
Yeah.
What if?
What if it fails?
But what if it works out?
Speaker 2 (42:14):
So I'm telling you right now that fear doesn't
exist.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
The fear doesn't exist, and just do it.
Go forth.
Go forth and see what happens.
Great.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Um, have I missed anything?
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Absolutely not.
Okay, good.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Okay, good, good.
Um, Colin, thank you forbringing your honesty, your
depth, and humor to aconversation that could easily
have been heavy.
Uh, but somehow you make itinspiring, practical, and human.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
All about connections, which is what you
want.
Um, you remind us that successisn't a finishing line, it's a
feeling.
And legacy, which I really dothink we need to start talking
about this more.
And just the small things inthe legacy.
It's not what we leave behind,but it's how we show up while
(43:07):
we're here.
Through the stories we tell,the people we love, and the
choices we make every day.
We've you've shown that midlifeisn't about slowing down
because you're obviouslyspeeding up.
Uh, it's about doing thingswith more clarity, compassion,
and meaning.
And if anyone is curious aboutstarting or capturing your own
(43:30):
stories and wisdom, check outBill Will.
It's a beautiful reminder thatour stories are our legacies and
you can actually start onemodule at a time.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
You like that?
Speaker 2 (43:42):
You love it.
I love that.
And we're gonna be that's gonnabe all over my socials.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Um, and if this episode made you pause, smile,
or think a little bit deeperabout getting your shit sorted
and making sure that your kids'lives are easier at the other
end.
Share it with someone who mightneed to hear it too.
Or just start getting your shitorganized and start now.
(44:08):
Start building your legacy,start planning, start doing it.
Because fuck, we're nearly 50and isn't it amazing.
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