F*ck, Success Isn’t What I Thought! with Justine Armour

Episode Transcript
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Dominique Hind (00:00):
Hi, I'm Dom hind and f*ck, I'm nearly 50. Well,
nearly 47 but I'm starting thecountdown to 50 now so that I
can make the most of it. Oneminute. I was in my 20s,
hustling, building a career,working, working, running,
working, working, working, waytoo much, and now I'm staring

(00:21):
down the barrel of 50, wonderingwhere the time went, why my body
creaks when I get out of bed,and am I actually living my all,
which is why I'm doing this fuckon nearly 50. Isn't just a
podcast, it's a midlife checkin. It's a reality check and
also a celebration to make surethat I am living my all. It's

(00:44):
about sharing those honestconversations about the big
things, career, finance,friendships, relationships,
purpose and all the shit thatI've collected along the way and
whether I really need it. Here'sthe thing, this podcast isn't
about chasing fame or buildingthe biggest audience. It's about
documenting the journey in realtime. It's about sharing the

(01:06):
conversation I'm having with myfriends and making sure that we
can all get to 50 on our terms.
So over the next 36 months, I'mtalking to some incredible
guests, sharing theirexperiences, trying new things
and questioning everything, sothat this journey can actually
push us and make us grow. Ifyou're wondering what's next, or

(01:29):
want to feel a little less alonein the madness of midlife, then
you're in the right spot. Solet's do this because f*ck, I'm
nearly 50, and isn't it amazing?

(01:55):
My very first guest is someonewho is not only ridiculously
talented, but also one of myabsolute favourites. Justine
armour, Hi Tom,

Justine Armour (02:07):
hi Dom, thanks for having me, and I'm the guest
number one on what

an honour so good. And to say we go way back
is actually an understatement.
Justine and I have shared alifetime adventure of laughter
and the kind of memories thatyou remember forever. She's not
just a world class creative andone of the most respected women

(02:31):
in advertising, she's also ourlodger, The Lodger, The Lodger,
and every time Justine's back intown. She stays at our place,
apart from now, which is veryupsetting, yeah, and it has
affectionately earned her thenickname The Lodger. And
mornings in our house are notcomplete without Justin. And I

(02:53):
doing this to summons Justinefor a cup of tea, and she knows
exactly how we like it. Andwe're very lucky, because our
friendship has taken useverywhere, like that
unforgettable New Year's Eveholiday in Bangkok and Thailand.

(03:14):
We've crashed at her house inPortland when she first moved
there, and we've shared way toomany laughs and talked about way
too many ads at ant cafe inPotts point, and she was even
there on the very first nightthat Justin and I officially got

(03:35):
together, and she's been such ahuge part of our life from
sharing all the wild storiesabout our families, both hers
and mine, and all the adventuresand the iconic moments that they
all have together. The thingthat even our kids love was
watching your your first bigSuper Bowl ad, which is very,

(03:59):
you know, good for this timeright now, where, even now, they
will get the Pringles can andwear it on their hand for way
too long, like, way too long,

happy to be that, yes,

yeah, because it means they have to eat them.
And, of course, throughout thispodcast, we will call each other
Dahl, and that is ouraffectionate name for each
other, for you know, showing howwe really do feel, but also
showing our proud Queenslandroots.

Yeah, expect there's some accents that others
won't have heard come out of uswhen we talk, when we not Yeah,
when we had a special set ofaccents, we just revert for each
other,

yeah, way too, way too real and raw. And before
we dive in, Justine, I wouldlove you to introduce yourself,
but in a non boring LinkedIn. Away. How would you actually
introduce yourself to someonewho has never met you?

I don't know. I would say, I mean, I'm the
oldest child. I'm a Virgo. I'm aYear of the Dragon. I and I
don't know if you if you knowanything about those, those
characters, what those thingsmean. I'm pretty, like, textbook
versions of those things. I'malso an Enneagram for which, if

(05:30):
you know about the Enneagram,I'm a very textbook Enneagram
for. I don't know what else I'vedone, a lot of, a lot of, like,
self analysis, yeah. Andweirdly, I find it very hard to,
like, introduce myself in asuccinct way. Okay, well, so
like, if we're talking aboutlead, being a leader, I'm, like,

(05:51):
I would say I'm a heart ledleader. I care about people. I
care about my relationships withpeople. I care really about
authenticity and how I'm able toshow up in the world. I don't
like being in any environmentwhere I'm not being able to able
to be myself so and I will leavethat environment, whether it's a
relationship or a job or a room.
You know, I find it veryintolerable to me to be in a an

(06:14):
environment or a situation whereI can't, where I have to fake,

yeah, you're definitely not very good at
faking, no, and which is funnyin advertising, yeah,
no, sorry everyone, yeah, yeah,okay.
What would okay? Just to givepeople, what do you think your
team would say are yourstrengths? Just so that they can

(06:41):
understand what an amazingperson you are.

I would say they they would say that I care a lot
about them and about the workand about the environment that
they're in, because I think thatthe energy of the place is what
sets the creates the ability forpeople to be authentic and and
feel safe, to be coming up withthe craziest ideas they you know

(07:06):
that, then that's the stuff weneed. You know, we don't need to
be coming up with ideas thatnow, now an AI bot can do like
you need. You need to createtrue, deep, emotional,
psychological safety forcreative people to have to have
great ideas, but I also thinkthat's true

for anyone.
You've just got to be authenticactually, and you got to align
with where your values sit andwhat you are actually doing.
Yeah, that's a big one. My oneof my big themes this year is
alignment, because I do thinksometimes we do get out of
alignment with our values. Yeah.
So yes, I do think you are veryauthentic, and you do live a

(07:45):
very you life, and only you cando, yeah. And I've
now I started to get reallycomfortable with being, like,
unapologetic about it, too.
So you've only get, you only getone life like you have to be. I

think it was a long time, though, where I,
like, really agonised about it,and had sort of an internalised
idea about what it should be orit should look like, you know, I
got married really young, andthen I got divorced really
young. Then I got married again,also really young, and divorced
again, because I just, I wastrying to, I was trying to

(08:18):
fulfil, like a script that hadbeen written inside me. I also
think

at that point in time, you were a little bit of a
people pleaser because youdidn't know who you actually

were. Yeah, that's absolutely true, and it's
the people pleasing is goesreally deep, and so it comes out
in different ways and differentdifferent relationships,
different jobs, different but,yeah, it's taken me, you know,
you're saying you're nearly 50.
I'm 50 next year. It has takenme almost this long to figure

(08:51):
out who the one person I need toplease myself.

And it's funny, isn't it, it takes you a long
time to get to that point whereyou go, it actually only matters
what I think and how I feel, andI'm the only one who can make me
feel that way. Yeah, I thinkalso

Earth auto matters like my parents. I'm the
eldest child, and I was so I gotsuch a good child, yeah, and
I've talked about my brothersall the time, they had such
different parents, yeah? To me,like they had a completely
different experience of myparents. And then I did and and
so it's, it's really deep,

yeah, yeah. I agree being an oldest, the
eldest child. I 100% agree thatwe always get the hardest
parents and then everyone elsegets the easier version. Yeah,

I forgive my parents. I haven't said it to my
mom yet. Yesterday, I was herevisiting my family, and I was
like, the version of you this islike, you know, 27 moms ago,
like she's had so many differentversions of herself since, since
we were. A young mother, yeah, Idon't hold any of it against
them. Yeah, I think that's justlike trying it. That was the

(10:06):
first pancake.

Okay, so today was a very big day for you,
Justine, and very big news.
You've just been announced asthe global creative or Chief
Creative Officer at, I'm justgonna say F and B. You can say

forgeman. It's a, it's a Swedish agency, okay,
we'll just say Forsman, just forthe

same, okay, you've just been named Global
Chief Creative Officer of Osman,and it's a big role, because it
will see you moving potentiallyto London as well.

Yes, I'm really excited about it. This is,
you know, these big, big,global, creative jobs don't come
along very often. And I waspretty happy in my little life
in New York, at my little inindependent place that I've been
a partner at for the last coupleof years, and this thing came
along, and I initially resistedit because I had I'm not what am

(11:09):
I talking about? I'm going to bein my late 40s. I'm going to
uproot my great life that I'vecreated for myself in New York
City. I live on the BrooklynHeights promenade, looking out
to the most incredible view oflaw in Manhattan and the Statue
of Liberty. And I'm like, I sitin my apartment and I'm like,
I've fucking made it. Yeah, Ihave got it figured out. I

(11:32):
nailed it. Like, people come toNew York and they never like it
destroys them. I have. I feltlike I have just like,
conquered, yeah, my experiencein New York,

which you have, like, literally, I mean, girl
from Brisbane now, like,

I've had, it's, it's taken, it has conquered me
at times, yeah, but yeah. And Iwas like, What am I talking how
am I gonna go? I'm, like,nearly, like, I'm nearly 50. Am
I really going to uproot my lifeagain and take another chapter
in London, which I, by the way,have never really wanted to go

(12:08):
and live in just to do this job.
And I think the thing is, like Ihad an idea that was in me that
I shouldn't do that, that thatwas, I was kind of too old to do
that, or there's something aboutmy story that would it's, I'm
steering it in the wrongdirection by going, Yeah, I just
had this idea that I was, like,it was crazy to uproot my life

(12:32):
again after I'd I've really doneit so many times, and I'm happy.
You know, it's not like I'mrunning away from something,
which I think is another point.
I'm not running away fromanything in myself or in New
York or anything like that. I'mI'm embracing another chapter in
the story. And the company isincredible. The team that I've

(12:55):
met, I haven't started, youknow, I don't start a month and
two months actually, but teamseems great. You know, I have a
lot of respect for the company.
For the company, and I like thework that it's done over the
course of the years. And so,yeah, like, you know, the very
reason, the very thing is in methat's resisting taking another
adventure is, is the reason whyI should do it? Absolutely,

(13:17):
absolutely, what was the hardestdecision in that whole, you
know, your your thinking processto actually push you over the
edge? Was it that you needed tochange like, you know, you were
too comfortable and you thought?
What was the factor that? Yeah,what was the factor? Honestly,

(13:40):
this happened. It came aroundright before the election in
America. And, you know, we Ifelt pretty good. I mean, I'm
Australian, so I don't vote. Istill want a visa. I'm not a
citizen, and so, you know, Idon't really have a stake in the

(14:01):
US election. But I was therethrough, you know, the second
time Obama was elected that wasjubilant. I was there through
the sort of Trump firstcampaign, Bruce First
Presidency. It was not a goodvibe. And I it was truly, I

(14:21):
don't know I really, I waswatching and paying attention.
It was very painful to be thereand to see all of these
institutions be kind of pulledapart, and to see people around
me hurt by these policies andthese kind of narratives or
going out there. So it was, itwas painful. And if you're a
thinking, caring, feelingperson, you can't there's no way

(14:44):
that you can't be devastatedevery day, yeah, by the things
that they are doing. Yeah. Soyou know, and also it's you
can't do anything about it. As anon voter, I don't have any
power, the only power I have in.
My happiness is to disengage.
And so I made or move, yeah, andwe're just using it, you know.

(15:07):
So I made the decision at somepoint last year that because,
you know, the first Trumppresidency, I was living my
partner, who I'm still veryclose to, my partner at the
time, was very politicallyengaged, and so I knew
everything that was going on,and I was very like, I had my
high anxiety. Anxiety was like,all the time about what was

(15:27):
happening, and I just made adecision of, sort of, my self
care, my sort of emotionalmental health, to, like, not
actually participate as much.
But when you're there, it'simpossible not to, you know,
it's impossible not to be in thecycle of the news, and it's
designed to to weigh you down toyou're getting, you know, just

(15:48):
bombarded, bombarded withterrible things that are
happening to people that arelovely and that you care about
and and so anyway, Long story,long it came this job came
around right as the election wascoming up, and so I decided to
just open the conversation up,because, you know, who knew if
he was going to get in again?

(16:11):
And I wasn't, you know, I wasmad and America mad at men,
yeah, I'm mad at America. And Iwas like, I'm ready to just
like, have an option to get outof here, if that happens. And
then, honestly, a great jobmaterialised out of it. And I
was like, now I want to do it.
And regardless of if, you knowthe election went that way or
not, I was like, I was excitedto do it and to get out. Yeah,

(16:32):
just explore the next expand myhorizons,

so you have had such an incredible career. And
we started as juniors together,yes, in Clemente, proximity in
Brisbane, and now we are nearly50.

Look, you're gonna get more comfortable
saying that. I'm sure,

no, I'm not really gross.
And your journey has beenphenomenal. How have you managed
to keep your creative sparkalive throughout this period,
with everything that you havegone through? Yeah,

it's a really good question. I think
I have realised that thecreative experience is a is an
embodied, somatic, physicalexperience. It's like it's an
energy that you cultivate inyour body, right? And it goes
away when you are being drivenby fear, and it comes alive when

(17:41):
you're being driven by some byinspiration, or by love or by
something that you're excitedabout. And so in everything I've
learned, I've had to reallylearn to cultivate an energy of
of that of like, positive,creative, you know, like I'm
seeking an openness, as youknow, and so part of it is,

(18:06):
like, physical, you know, it'slike, what you're doing with
your body, the mood, it'smovement, it's rest, it's it's
getting out of fear basednarratives and making sure that
I'm, you know, even things thatare, You know, like, I just
explained this, this politicalsituation, like you, I made a
conscious decision to not allowthat into my head. And, you

(18:29):
know, I It's, I think, as acreative person, you've got to
be able to put it in its placeand be really intentional about
appreciating and havinggratitude, and, like, having
something that is driving youforward, yeah, and not driving
you away. Has that always beenthe case for you? No, absolutely
not. I think COVID, yep. So whenCOVID hit, I just I was 15 days

(18:54):
into my job at grey, New York,huge, biggest job I've ever
done. Massive job for me at thetime, excuse me, massive job for
me at the time, I knew it wasgoing to be a big, hard job, and
I had great people around methere who also knew that I was
going to need a lot of supportto be successful in it. So COVID
came in all of a sudden, whereNew York was a crazy, terrible

(19:17):
place to be, went home. Viruswas all around us. Everyone's
going to die running this, youknow, huge creative department
at one of the biggest agenciesin New York. Um, then we had,
you know, a grey there was amerger that WPP created between

(19:38):
us and AK, QA, yeah. Then therewas, you know, somebody on the
leadership team had a braintumour that did and wasn't
sharing that information. Thenthere was, you know, I couldn't
leave because I was on a visa.
And there was so many thingsanyway I was it just created a
fear energy in my in me, i.

(19:59):
Think over time, plus I was, Ididn't realise at the time, but
I was quite unwell, yeah, and Iwas giving myself to the job so
much that I was not available towhat was going on in my physical
body. So we'll get to that in abit like I was, I had become and
was getting more and moreunwell, and was creating this
like energy of desperation,which, by the way, everyone,

(20:23):
when you're in leadership, andevery when you have a team like
that, everyone's looking at you,and they're, they're like,
powered by that energy, which isanxious, fearful, um, annoyed
when it doesn't go the way thatit needs
to, like, it's not curious, no,it's not. It's not your usual
capacityfor things to go not how you
expected.

And that is hard. That is hard, and it's
hard also to get out of thathead space as well, unless you
do make a drastic change, likeleave

Yeah, or it happens to you, you know, you
have, like, a breakdown, you doYeah, and then you have to
reassess, yeah, and if you'relucky, and you've got time and
you've got the headspace to

figure out what it's all about, what
so being in that massive job atgrey what was the biggest lesson
that you learned aboutleadership?

I think it would be that thing that we are driven
by either love or fear? Yeah,everything that we do is driven
by love or fear. And if you area leader that that can't relax
into the challenges of of it,you are going to be fearful. And
so I think it's you get that.
You get relaxed over time,through having experience. But

(21:43):
as a young as a new leader, bythe way, I was taken aback. I
was only been maybe 10 yearsinto being a creative director.
At that point, you know, I was14 years a copywriter, and then
all of a sudden, I went to the3% conference, and they were
like, We need when I was at onein Kennedy, there were, there
was, like, 180 creatives, 26creative directors. No women,

(22:06):
wow. There was an ECD who was awoman, Susan Hoffman. But then
they were like, there were nowomen at that time in the
creative and creative and I wasthis most senior woman. And
there were nine women in thecreative department, and I was
the most senior female creativeso I became a creative director,
and then I came, I was on thistrajectory that was like, I was
a CD there, and then I was a GCDat 72 and sunny. And then six

(22:30):
months later, I was an ECD,like, leading that office. And
then two and a half years later,I was leading grey in New York,
yeah. So I was never in mastery.
I was always learning. And so myenergy as a leader was always I
don't know what I'm doing. I'mfaking it till I make it. I'm
leaning in because you told meto Yeah. And I never got that

(22:53):
relaxed energy around me. And Ijust kept taking these
opportunities because I keptgetting offered to me, and I
didn't want to be crazy and notdo them. But what it created was
a leader who was running onfear, yeah? And I've learned now
that I can do it and what myboundaries and my limits are,
and I can honestly say I run onpretty good vibes, yeah, and I

think that would be hard going from like that
anxious. Am I actually doing theright thing? Because, I mean, I
know exactly what it's likeeven, you know, when I was
young, leading all 26 and havingall those digital people around
me trying to lead them, and noone had ever taught you how to
lead or what you need to do,

pioneering it too, like you were. I mean, that
that part that time in ourindustry, you were on the
cutting edge of that, of thatspace, yeah,

and being a female, yeah, and in like
digital was something that it'shard. And I look back, even for
myself, and I go, God, I madesome dumb, dumb, dumb decisions,
and I wish I could take themback, but it was great for
learning, because you go, Iwould never do that again, and I
would actually have those hardconversations that I just didn't

(24:08):
know how to have. You'reafraid to have them because you
don't want to expose yourself asnot knowing and when and what. I
think the other thing thathappens as you get older, yes,
you get so much more comfortablewith being the, being the most
curious, not knowing person inthe room. Yeah, and it is such a
gift to everybody. Oh, it isbeing

(24:29):
able to ask a question and notfeel like you have to have all
the answers.

You're not afraid of being, you know,
exposed as a fraud, yeah, whichis your young leadership, you're
always afraid of that.

So we did touch on it about your health
challenges. How has that shiftedyour perspective in what is
actually really important inlife and work and everything
that you do?

Yeah, I mean, it's. Because it's like, I
learned something that everybodyelse knew before me, which is,
you don't have your own sort ofenergy in your body working. You
can't really be there foreverybody else, yeah, you know,
as a leader, yeah, you know. AndI think I'm just always an

(25:19):
Aussie thing, like, she'll beright. Like, I just always
whatever was going on with me. Ijust feel like I ran this body,
like an old Toyota, like it waslike the lights were going on,
and I was like, it's fine. Youknow, there's sirens, like
blinking shit, and there's like,so many warning signs. And I'm
like, It's fine. I'll be fine.
I'll get to the next stop. And Ijust truly, I got, I've learned

(25:39):
that I, you know, not to let anyof those warning lights go on,
which is, I have, I'm so sorryto myself that I had to learn it
the hard way.

What was the breaking point that you just
went, okay? Now I actually doneed to take care of myself. I

went, I went on it. I took a year off between
grey and the job that I've beendoing for last couple of years
at fig. To, you know, I was notin a good place when I left
grey. I was not well, but I justfelt, I thought it was stress,
yeah. So I went up to thiswellness retreat in Mexico, and
I did, you know this, like,cleanse for a month, and then,

(26:25):
you know, psychedelics in thejungle and Scorpios in your
room, Scorpion, yeah, it wasamazing. Um, and I came away
from that. I was, I felt so goodwith a non what's an anti
inflammatory paleo diet, workingout every day, yoga every day. I
was, I felt so good. I was like,my energy was incredible. I go

(26:48):
back to New York, and I'm like,reset, you know, I'm me again.
I'm like, you know, back in NewYork, and it's holidays, and I'm
drinking Martina here and there,and then I'm back into my ute,
my just eating like a six yearold burgers at midnight, then I
go home to Australia forChristmas, and for a couple

(27:08):
months, and I started to,i, i So,
so a piece of this I had that Ididn't talk about. It's like,
I've had pretty, like, heavymenstrual bleeding for 10 years
from adenomyosis, endometriosis,fibroids, all these things. And

(27:29):
it's, and I'd, I'd, you know,it's one of those things, like,
every month a little bit worse,and then it's a little bit
worse. And I'd had a couple ofsurgeries and tried different
things, but it had just get evenas healthy as I felt after going
to this thing in Mexico, I I waslike, it was, it wasn't good,
yeah, so I came back from thistrip to Australia, and I was

(27:53):
heavy. I was like, losing a lotof blood, and I went saw my
doctor,

and they were like, your, your,

am I having? Why am I having a no, I'm conflating
the two. Sorry, I want to goback. I'm going to go back. I'm
conflating two. I'm conflatingtwo experiences. Because there
were two, there were two erthings. So, okay, two, er, yeah,
that's why they were so, whenyou were so, went home, the
blood, yeah. So I came, I wentto Australia. Had a lovely time.

(28:26):
But while I was there, I startedhaving, like, waking up in the
middle of night, and like,having, like, body aches and
pains and things like that, andsweating in the middle of night.
And I was like, oh, maybe I'mgoing through Perry or something
like that, like waking up andjust drenched and sweat. And
then I went home to New York,and it was still happening. And
it was like, now it's the middleof winter, and I'm still

(28:47):
drenched in sweat in the middleof night. So and my then my I
had a look at pain in my elbowthat was now a pain in my wrist
and pain in my shoulder. And Iwas like, everything hurt. So I
went and saw my doctor. Theytook up. She was like, Yeah,
look, well, I'm like, to Mexico.
How dare you, ma'am. And so shetook a blood test, and I went

(29:08):
home to my apartment, and thenext day, I get this call, and
the doctor's like, are yousomewhere private?
It's like, well, that's notgreat. She's
like, you've had an abnormalblood test. You need to go to
the ER right away. And I waslike, Well, I'm about to do a

(29:31):
call. I was doing a like,writing programme to join my
class and and so she's like, No,no, you. She's like, Are you
short of breath? And I was like,Yes, but I'm and I'm out of
shape, and she's like, Well, areyou? And she's like, are you?
What is she? Are you feelinglight headed? Are you? And all
these things, yes, are you Ithought of, and she's like, have

(29:52):
you tightness in your chest? AndI was like, Yes, but I'm
heartbroken now. I had all theseother reasons for the things
that she was explaining to me.
Out what was going on my body.
And when she's like, No, youneed to go you've had a an
abnormal blood test with myhaemoglobin, my red blood count
was low, like, a normal levelfor an adult, for a human, is

(30:13):
15. You know anything aboutblood? Yeah, a low level for a
woman, when you menstruating, is12. And I was at a 6.1 she says,
to get into the fives, you can'tlive for more than a couple of
days like you're on, you'reabout to have a heart attack. So
I go, okay. She's like, I needyou to walk very slowly to get
into a card, and you need to notexpend any energy. And I was
like, okay, so I get my keys,and I leave, like the dog there,

(30:38):
and I I leave all my things. Ithink I'm just going to go get
an injection of blood orsomething. She's, I think she
goes near to my bloodtransfusion. Go to the ER. I
don't even know how to go to thehospital. Like, I've never like,
I say, so I go to the ER. I'mcalling my friend on the way to
Brooklyn hospital, and she myfriend, is like, don't go to

(30:59):
Brooklyn hospital. Go toManhattan. It's like, it's fine.
I'm almost there. And anyway,you do not want to go to
Brooklyn hospital. Yeah, that isa very good advice my friend
gave me. But you did a war zoneof horror, yeah? So it takes,
you know, there, and so 36 hourslater, two bags of blood in my
arm. I'm sitting underfluorescent lights in a corridor

(31:19):
in a cot where there's, like,you know, people in all kinds of
strife wandering around my bed.
And I was like, this is a rockbottom Yeah, I'm I'm employed.
I'm 46 years old. I'm getting,I've got, who knows whose

blood is in me.
And I think we had a joke about,can we actually just go and
audition people, yeah, to seewhat blood type they are and
what they do. I'm ready to adopt

a blood donor.
And I was, I was like, This isnot good. Like, I've got myself
okay. But also, at the time, Irealised this is also a gift,
because I had time to figurethis out. Yes, I have incredible
health insurance. I have, youknow, me leans, yeah, that's it.
So that was it. That was amoment where I was like, Okay, I
gotta sitting in their Brooklynhospital. Was like, this, is it?

(32:07):
This? And I think you had workedso much, like, literally, you
put work as your number onepriority, yeah, all the time,
like it always was your numberone priority, yeah, to the point
where I had a series of, youknow, a husband and then a
fiance, and then anotherrelationship with people who

(32:29):
worked were at my work. So,like, we it made it very
convenient to have, you know,work be the central
relationship. And these otherpeople kind of witnessed me,
witnessing me and validating mein it, yeah? So, yeah, it was,
I'm I was unconscious to it,but, yeah, but I'm sure now,
yeah, that you've taken a stepback from that. You can see that

(32:52):
and go, Yeah, work was literallywhere I filled my cup or
everything. Yeah, it's also, Ithink about advertising. As you
know, I was a creative kid,yeah, and, but I also was in a
came up in a really blue collarfamily, and then I think a look

(33:14):
around advertising, a lot ofpeople come came from, not like
wealthy middle class families,but like people, people who
needed security while they alsowanted to be creative. Yeah, and
so I have a lot of affection andempathy and compassion for
myself as needing that like Iwas trying I needed to have a

(33:35):
creative life, and it was a wayto have live a creative life,
but also have, you know,security, yeah, yeah. And so
yeah, I try not to beat myselfup about the fact that I put it
for first, because I think Ialways put myself my creativity
first,yeah, yeah. And if you look at
it like it was about yourcreativity and expressing your

(33:56):
creativity, rather than it justall being about work, yes, yeah,
definitely a good way of lookingat it. But I'm, I think now
that's even shifted again, andyou yourself the thing that you
are prioritising now, yeah, orwhat I allow it to be has to be
more energising. Yeah, it can'ttake more than it gives, and I

(34:20):
think that's a great thing. Itcan't take more than it is,
because otherwise it's just, youjust end up depleted, yeah, or
in Brooklyn hospital, which withsomeone a year later.
But you know, so, you know, Ididn't straight away, but yeah,
she's getting it, and

you so this, this next one. I mean, I know we
have, sort of, we've spokenabout this personally, but you
know, you nearly being in your50s, nearly, nearly, and the
whole societal pressure of kids.
Or no kids? Yeah, you've had,you know, there have been a lot

(35:02):
of comments or even justjudgments on you not having
kids. How have you managed that?
You know, internally, yeah, and,you know, I don't know whether
it's made pieces right word, buthow have you, you know, backed

(35:24):
your

your choices, um, you know, I think the
greatest gift my mom ever gaveme was she was the one who said,
Don't do it. And it took all ofthe pressure away. Because, you
know, the people pleaser and mewould have done if they if they
wanted me to have kids. Myparents said to me that they
thought that would be a goodlike, I'd miss out on something

(35:45):
if I didn't have them, I wouldhave always felt like it was
important to do it. But my mom,when I was in my 20s, I think
she might have even been alittle bit drunk. Yeah, she's
like, don't do it. She didn'teven smoke. This is me. This is
my impression about like, don'tdo it. She goes live your life.
And so I honestly, it was a hugegift to me. Yeah. And back to

(36:09):
the pressure and the criticism.
Something I learned recently isyou'll only take internalised
criticism from someone else asas much as you believe it, yeah,
to be true. And so I think therewas a period, maybe in my most
fertile years, where I I feltlike some internal judgement
about not doing it, like a sortof selfishness, or a sort of I'm

(36:31):
gonna or a fear that I was gonnamiss out on something, you know,
profound or Yeah, like washing,picking up after them
constantly, yeah, or, but, like,what am I going to live do
everything from living formyself? Like, how selfish Am I
not to do this? Yeah, when andwhat am I? Where am I going to

(36:53):
get my meaning from? Yeah, youknow. But as I've gotten older,
I've got past that window. Ihave absolutely no self
judgement about it. I feel likeit was a really good decision
for me, yeah, and I have amazingrelationships with kids that I
you know, in my life, and

like, Yeah, I think Hallie would come and live
with you in New York tomorrow.
They're

all coming.
They're all coming. They're allgoing to London now, rather than
New York.
And I just have a lot of joyaround them. I think I was, I
was at the time, and, you know,I've been in relationships with
people who I I could see theywould going to be a great
parent, yeah, and I know thatthey've, you know, exes are our
great parents, but I didn'tbelieve and trust that they

(37:41):
would be a great partner to mein their parenting. And so I
just I knew I was some there wassomething about honouring myself
and taking care of myself thatthat made me, helped me make
those that decision and bereally kind of, you know, and
really own it. But, yeah, I'vealso been moments you meet a

(38:01):
great kid and you're like, I'vebeen called out one of those.
But I don't know, I'm alsohaving a great time. So I think
it's good to be, look, we'vegot, there's so many different
ways that you can live your lifeas a woman, and there's probably
not enough examples of happy,self assured, you know, kind of

(38:24):
relaxed, powerful women inculture that don't have kids.
And I'm, like, grappling withthis, with this question, and so
I'm happy to talk about it,because I'm genuinely happy in
my life. Yeah, and you know what

you are the when I saw you today, literally,
like, an hour ago, it was thebest that I have seen you
looking in, I don't even knowhow many years, and it's, you
know, just telling that you are,you just seem yourself. Yeah,

it's really true. I'm honestly, like,
really, in a very relaxed, happyplace in my life, yeah, which is
good, yeah.

No, you know what. It is, hard earned, but
you have. The thing that I loveis that you have spent the time
working on you and understandingyou, you haven't hidden from it.
You haven't, you know, that yearthat you had off, you actually
did that work so that youwouldn't fall into those same

(39:31):
work patterns. Find therelationship work too much, you
know, forget everything and justget back into that, that, yeah,
you know, it's, it's amazing tosee the difference in where you
were versus, you know, where youare now.

Yeah, thank you.
I it even

from last year, yeah, if you look at where you
were last year to now, like,it's an amazing difference,
yeah,

and I don't know what, I don't know what
happened. And in that time thatI think I've just kind of, I've
gotten like, you know, likewe've talked about before, about
leadership, I've just gottencomfortable in it. Yeah, no, I'm
single. I was as, you know, aswe've been friends for a really
long time, relationship torelationship to relationship.
Like, you know, I've barely hadany time off between

(40:21):
relationships that I've been in,jobs, jobs, jobs, job. Barely
had more than two weeks off inmy whole career. And I've been
single for a lot the last coupleof years, few years, and at the
beginning was veryuncomfortable. Kind of dependent
tendencies really needed to seehave somebody there validating

(40:45):
me in my domestic life and thesame person validating me in my
work life. I needed that mirror,and I have learned that I to be
my that mirror to myself, andthat's all that I need. Yeah,
like that, like that, like yousaid, the reflection and the
time that I took in that yearto, like, really sit with all

(41:05):
this shit about myself, like,really kind of, like, get
comfortable with it, and kind offall in love with myself, and be
like, have so much compassionfor the ways that I was And the
decisions that I made and,and even the stuff that's, like,
so awful and painful andhurtful, like, kind of getting
okay with that, and, yeah, like,you know, it's, it is, I'm a

(41:29):
human being. I'm not perfect,and I'm, you know, and you
actually seem at peace with it,like we should, you know, we
were talking about it before,just being able to let it be or
just be comfortable and nottaking it on. Yeah, and it is
like that is, I think thebiggest difference in you this
time around, when I've seen you,is you are calm. Yeah, you are

(41:51):
just calm. You're calm in yourdecisions. You're calm in the
way that you are straight offthe plane. Hair looks like an
old rat. No, it does. Soundsamazing. Yeah, this
is, like the level of comfortthat I have must have right now,
the fact that I'm wearing Jean,Jean's an old t shirt, and he's

(42:14):
getting me, yeah, hilarious.

Now, like we are, we talk, we talk a lot
about doing life the way that weour way, and that idea means
different things to differentpeople. What does that look like
for you now and heading towardsyou getting to 50?

You know, I think it's always been about, we
talked about this in the car, sowish we'd been able to record
some of the car conversation onthe way over here. But freedom
has always been, I don't knowwhy. I think again, it's their
oldest child with parents thatwere like, super like, I felt

(42:59):
like they were, yeah, they wereincredibly strict, a lot of
surveillance, not really a lotof freedom. And like, as soon as
I could, I, you know, I'm, like,I wasn't allowed to, you know,
the teens in our teen years,where you're sort of, you know,
hormonally wired to sort ofseparate from the pack that
wasn't available to me. So, youknow, my family, we socialise

(43:22):
with family, and I was in thepack. I was, like, forced to
stay in the pack. So it freedomhas always been, yeah, a very
important value to me. Freedomis a big one, yeah. And so
freedom everything I've been,you know, in my career, seeking,
kind of these differentpositions and financially in
different like getting myselfinto a position where I'm, I'm

(43:45):
not account not, I'm not stuckanywhere, you know. And I'm not
forced to do something I don'twant to be doing. I'm not
forced, you know. I'm not and Inot trapped, yeah? And I think,
yeah, I'm in a point now, andI'm at a point now where I'm,
I'm not even accountable to my apartner, yeah, you know, and I'm
about to take this job, um, it'sin London, and I was, we were

(44:09):
saying before, I'm gonna put allmy stuff in storage, and I'm
gonna live out of a bag for ayear and just see where in where
I'm gonna want to live, seethat places and be amazing. And
I think the, I mean, we talkedabout freedom, but we also
talked about simplicity and,like, just simplifying and
getting rid of the stuff. Like,I think the what the pearl of
wisdom that you said was, I'mgoing to go through everything

(44:34):
in my apartment, and if I lookat it and ask myself, would I
buy this today? And I say, No,I'm going to get rid of it
absolutely. And it inspired meto go through my house, yeah,
and I've got a lot of crap in myhouse, like there's way too much
biggesthouse, yeah, in the world, and
it's full of things. It's notthe biggest, but it is, yeah.

He's not but I am going to go through my house
and go, would I buy this againand then just get rid of it?
Yeah, yeah. Except the problemis he would buy everything. And
also I feel so bad because I'llhave to recycle everything that
will stay under my stairs inthese recycling package but

(45:23):
that's what I'm going to do. Iloved it, like the freedom and
the simplicity, because it'sjust like we just all accumulate
this stuff and just stuff thatweighs you down. Well, you end
up

taking care of it, you know? Yeah, we were
saying before, like, you end upthat your job now is to sort of
maintain all the stuff and cleanall the stuff and get it fixed.
And I don't know that's notfreedom, to me. That's
definitely not free. I'verealised, like, the only thing
that's really stopping me frombeing fully free, it's like, I
meant in New York back there,with all my things in it, I've

(46:00):
got to think about what they'rewhat I'm going to do with it
all, you know, I think

the other thing, and I don't know about you, but
the fires in LA really hit me,because there were so many
people who had accumulated allof this stuff that they loved,
that they maintained, that Theylooked after, and it was
literally gone within seconds,and they they couldn't do

(46:24):
anything about it. And, youknow, I thought how it's, like,
absolutely devastating, but alsohow freeing being able to start
from scratch with out thebaggage of, yeah, everything
that you've accumulated.

Yeah. I mean, obviously, if you're in a point
in your life where home isreally is so is crucial to you
know you're emotionally whereyou are, like, there's been
times in my life where I'm like,it really matters that my home
feels like a sanctuary and andit depends what's going on in
life, or different pressures andThings like that. But if you're
feeling powerful and relaxed,and it doesn't matter so much

(47:06):
what the physical environment isthen, yeah, but I think there
have been times in my life wherethat would have been traumatic
and absolutely not something Icould, yeah,
cope with. But I think it is.
You do get to the point, though,where you go, Okay, what do I
actually need right now? And youknow, when you're approaching
50, this is when you do startasking those questions, how can

(47:28):
I be a bit freer? How can Isimplify things? How can I
actually have the time to do thestuff that I want to be doing?
Yeah, rather than maintainingstuff? Yeah? Oh. Anyway,

it's, it's a big thing.
So the industry and theadvertising industry that we've
grown up in is full on. It isvery negative, because we get no
so often, like so often wepresent ideas and it's no, no,
no, no, no looking back, what'sbeen the best strategy for

(48:08):
managing stress and stayinggrounded?

For me, it would be appreciating the no
for what it is actually beingokay, being not having a
narrative that the No is thewrong answer. Yeah, right. And
so all we talked about thisbefore all pain, I realised all

(48:36):
pain is comes from wishingagainst reality and in me and I
and when, when I can see thesituation and has as having
value in itself, then I don't, Ican, I can flow with it. Yeah,
and, and one of an example wouldbe probably the best piece of

(48:58):
work I ever made was, I don'tknow, 12 years ago I was a
winding Kennedy. I made a SuperBowl. Sorry, I want to go back.
Probably the best piece of workI ever did was 12 years ago,
winding Kennedy. I made withfriends, with a team campaign
for Old Spice my and it waslike, really famous, and did

(49:18):
really well. And I've talkedabout this with my teams ever
since, because we got briefed onthat in January, um, we, we, I
don't even, couldn't even tellyou how many rounds after rounds
after rounds of creative,creative development we were in.
We were, I think, in our thirdbatch of research, like

(49:38):
campaigns that got killed inresearch before that spot was
written and and we made it. Weshot it in September of that
year. It we're in post throughthe end of the year. It shipped
in December, and it's a greatstory of because all the other
scripts that we wrote which wethought were great and would

(49:59):
have, yeah. Would have been,could have been good, would have
got made. And what they did wasthey helped us write a way
better thing. And all theexperience and the learning that
we had, all those failures andall those disappointments, led
to the best thing I haveprobably ever been involved in.
And so it's just a really goodexample to me that I share with

(50:20):
people, it's like, you don'tknow this no might actually be
leading to a bigger, a betteryes and and often it does, you
know, and we wouldn't have gotthis group Bigger, bigger
client. If that smaller clienthadn't said no to us, we might
have not had this Super Bowlopportunity. If this other thing
was, you know, taking up ourtime. Yeah. And so I just always

(50:42):
feel like there's a betterwhenever I get a No, it means,
if I'm looking there's somethingbigger that's better coming.
Yeah, I definitely

agree with that.
Can you just touch on the pain?
Reference the pain? What did yousay? Pain is a reflection?

Pain is comes from wishing against reality.
Yes, and, and we have anarrative that this thing that's
happening shouldn't behappening. Yeah? This person
shouldn't be talking to me likethis. That client shouldn't have
said, No, this budget shouldn'thave been halved,

and friends should have been annoying. Yeah?
Allthe yes, my husband shouldn't be
insisting on this, you know. Andif you can just embrace like,
take that narrative out of it,and embrace the challenge or the
sort of thing that you're thatyou're being given, the
challenge that you're beinggiven as the gift and as the
thing that's supposed to happenand welcome it and go, like,

(51:41):
what is going to happen throughme, from this, from this thing
that I wasn't expecting, you cando it with with joy. You can,
you can handle it with joy,yeah, but I think it's like,
when it's when you've got anenergy of like, that's it
shouldn't be happening andyou're angry, which is really
fear, because you don't know howto handle the situation. And,

(52:03):
you know, and like, just easeinto it and be like, Okay, I
love this weird turn of events.
Yeah? How fun, yeah.
And I think it's all just thatmind shift, yeah, you know, you
just need to try and look at thethings you can control rather
than the things you can't. Yeah,as soon as you start to focus on

(52:24):
that, it does help to spark thatjoy and start to, you know, push
you in a in a differentdirection. Yeah,

that's right.
And just whatever you're dealingwith stress, stressing about
things that that aren't goingthe way you men wanted them to,
isn't helping anything. No, it'salmost been creating your energy
in your body, yeah, everyoneelse feels it, yeah. Then like,
you know what, let's we'llanswer all with this crazy shit.

How do you when the going gets tough, stay in
that mindset of, you know, thiswill be or that no is getting to
a yes,

it helps to have people around you that share,
like, that energy with you andthat you're, you're in agreement
that that's how things, that'show we are because, like, then
you're, you know, because ofnature, like we've got, you
know, we're wired to to sort of,you know, like be looking out

(53:22):
for threat, yeah, so. But havinga, having a team of people
around you who are committed tojoy and committed to this is
hilarious and stupid, andholding you to that, I think, is
really helpful, yeah, okay, Joy.
I love, I love the word joy.
It's one of my favourite wordsin the world

at this point in your life and career. What does
Joy actually mean to you? Oh,

that's a good one.
I think what it means to me,it's a crucial energy to the
end. And I think it's again,it's like something you
cultivate through appreciation,through gratitude, through like
this, looking at your life withwith, you know, thankfulness,

(54:23):
yeah, even the stuff that's hardand so you can walk around in
joy, even when you're in thehardest, you know, stuff that
you've got going through thehardest stuff with your life.
Yeah, and it's, it's, I'mrealising it more and more as
I'm getting older. It's like myhealth relies on me, mostly
living in that energy andwalking around in that energy,

(54:44):
and walking around my life witheyes and a heart of
appreciation. And it takes theother thing I realise, if I
don't take regular scheduledlike break. From the work that
I'm doing all the time. And Ilast year, I again, didn't,

(55:06):
yeah, I didn't do it. I'veworked all the way through,
didn't take a vacation. And Igot to the end of the year, and
I was, like, kind of miserable,and I realised I need to
schedule breaks, and I need to,like, consciously be cultivating
that energy, because I'll justget sucked into the doing, if I
if I don't, yeah, so I had a coworker once, actually, that he

(55:26):
did every 10 weeks. He would gofive weeks off, five days off
the grid. Wow, so and he hadfigured out his rhythms needed.
He go 10 weeks on, reallyhardcore, 10 weeks on five days
off. But if he was doing hisfive days off are, like,
uncontactable, wow. And it wasso intentional about using those
five days and he come back on,yeah. And I think I need to work

(55:48):
out what my rhythms are, Iguess, or something would be, I
guess it would be somethingsimilar, yeah, 10 weeks on, five
days off. It's actually areally, really nice way of
thinking about it, yeah.

How do you stay open to new experiences and
personal growth?

I think it's easy for me because I don't have
a lot of people dragging on mytime. Yeah, and I don't have a
lot of responsibilities, and Idon't really have a lot of
there's not really a lot ofjudgement around me, around how
I use my personal time. Sohonestly, it's that, like I, I'm

(56:31):
my whole life is about doingwhatever the fuck I want at any
time. And, you know, following.
Sorry, thanks.
I don't know. I think the thingis, I
part of taking this job, yeah,is also I realise I'm very

(56:51):
comfortable in my little birdcage. Like I said, I'm on the
Promenade. I look out at thecity and people walking past,
and I don't have to leave myhouse to feel like I'm in the
city, but I'm not. I'm like, I'mvery like, much an introvert and
homebody too. So this job islike kicking me out into the

(57:12):
world. By the way, my my leaseis up. My landlord won't let me
renew or go like, month tomonth. So all of that is a gift
pain. It's a fucking pain, butit's a gift. It's pushing me out
into the world, yeah, and at atime when I need it so
absolutely, yeah, I'm open, Iguess, yeah,

which is good if you could go back and give your
younger self one piece ofadvice, knowing everything you
do now. Yeah, what advice wouldit be?

I wouldn't have been able to hear it, but
something along the lines,you're you're enough. You don't
need a husband or a partnertelling you that you're enough
or validating you. I think Iwish I got really, really
comfortable in my own in my owncompany and in my own skin at a

(58:11):
younger age, because I feel likeI missed out on so many years of
being relaxed also beingyou as well. Yeah, sure,
because, you know, the earlystages being a people pleaser,
yeah, striving for somethingeveryone out, like being
something for everyone else,rather than true to you. Yeah,
andI wish that I just been able to
understand that a little bitearlier. I think I would have

(58:36):
had a more fun, more years offun, and would have I would have
had more sort of the self careangle would have been, yeah,
more prevalent in the beginning,yeah,

and you and I have been friends through so
many different stages of Ourlives. And what role in general,
does friendship play to you?

I mean, it's huge, because my family is in
Queensland, yes, and my life isin New York City, and it's, it's
kind of everything my, it's myit's my family around the world
are the friends that I havearound the world, yeah, and that
said, I'm, I don't like, I guessthere. I've got a handful of

(59:30):
friends in New York. I like, Ispend a lot of time with the
people that are in my sort ofphysical in the village, you
know, that are like, rightthere. But,

yeah, no, it takes like, four texts me at

three in the morning. So
I'm just like, are you there?
Are you alive? Hi, what'shappening? You need to have my
mom on andshe can tell you. She can just
talk shit about how bad I amstaying in touch

now, I'm just like, have we found a good blood
don't. Yeah, like, yeah. Whatcan you send me the photos of
them? Yeah? No,

Justine Armour (01:00:03):
I appreciate it.
I do appreciate it. I'm glad,because there's been moments
where I've been like, if I died,no one would know that my body
was decaying for like, weeks. SoI appreciate that. But, yeah,
it's everything, but it's alsoI, I'm the sort of person that I
I might go and not be superpresent while when, yeah, we're

(01:00:26):
separate, but then when we'retogether, it's like no time,
yes, and I'm honestly like thatwith a lot of my friends. Yeah.
So intimacy is I really careabout getting in the meat. You
know, I don't want to have lightconversations with people. So he
tried to have, like, a heavyconversation by text. And then

(01:00:47):
it was like, I'm coming out.
We'll talk about

Dominique Hind (01:00:50):
it. Let's talk about it in front of
a camera.
And yeah, I know it's funny,isn't it? Because you do. I was
listening to something that saidthe other day, friendships are
really based on one of the keypillars is proximity. Yeah, and

(01:01:13):
it is when you are able to pickup the phone, walk next door, go
wherever the friendships are alot easier to nurture, yeah, but
you do have to invest the timeto make sure that they're the
ones that you do really careabout. Yeah, are there for the
long term? And I

will say, you know, obviously I've moved to
Portland now, then to New York,and I moved to London. I was,
I've been quite scared about,yeah, because I don't have any
close friends in London, yeah,and I'm a little scared about
what that is, but I've alsorealised I've made amazing
friends in New York. I've hadincredible friends in in
Portland. Yeah, you and Jussieand I are, like, as tight as

(01:01:54):
ever. And I will say, I thinkone of the fears that we have,
like moving away, is that wewon't have people, or we'll lose
touch with our with our oldfriends. Yeah, and it's honestly
not true, like it's, it's a,it's a narrative that maybe
stops us from taking these boldleaps. But I can say I've got
beautiful, like, long, like,lifelong friendships that I see.

(01:02:19):
You know, physically, we'll seeeach other, you know, once a
year, yeah. I mean, we hang outlike, Yeah, but, but, but it's
when you've got those, like,really strong foundations with
people. It means you can flyaround, yeah, you always come
back.

Apparently, it has a study that says that to
have deep, foundationalfriendship circles or a
relationship with someone, youneed 200 hours of face time with
them. Which I was like, wow,that's a lot of time, yeah,
particularly if you're livingacross the world. But, you know,
I think because of our history,we probably had way more, oh, my

(01:02:57):
god, 200 hours. Yes, just in thecup of tea,
a lunch has put in way morehours of
that absolutely okay, so finalquestion, so it has been amazing
and an absolute joy to do thisfirst one with you both going,

(01:03:21):
what are we doing? We've coveredeverything, career highs,
relationship highs, thelearnings of life. And I do
really love the pain coming fromyou looking, you know the
reality? Yeah, pushing againstreality. Pain is pushing against
reality. Like I love that,because it 100% is exactly what

(01:03:43):
it is.
And for me, the one thing thatI'm taking
from getting towards 50 is thatit isn't about slowing down.
It's actually about leaning in,questioning more, making sure
you're doing the right things,making sure that you yourself

(01:04:05):
know and are in touch and inlove with you as a person,
because that's where it doesactually come from. And it's all
about finding a little bit morejoy, a little less stress, and
just questioning what thepurpose is for you moving
forward. And before we wrap up,there's one last question, just

(01:04:29):
one last question, if, whatwould your advice be? If you
could try something fun, bold,or something that shakes you out
of autopilot before I'm 50. Whatwould it be?

I want to say, take a solo trip. I don't know
why that just came to I thinkthat would be, you know, like,
unlike a, you know, a big one,yeah, you know, not four days.
You know, at a day's bar, yeah?

(01:05:09):
Taking a travelling solo and andgoing somewhere, being and
having, like a sort of almost aspiritual experience, is, it's,
it's incredibly powerful to be,to see yourself in out in the
world, you know, without all theresponsibilities of taking care

(01:05:30):
of other people, doingeverything on your own time.
Yeah? I think

being able to have the conversations or talk
to someone or, you know, justYeah, it is. It's a that's a
greatone. Shake yourself out of your
out of your comfort zone,absolutely. Yeah. Back to to
what you were just sayingbefore. I think not, you know,
in this, in this investigation,yeah, what I've taken out of our
conversation just now is likethe appreciation of the of the

(01:05:57):
moment you're in is so crucial.
Yeah, all this stuff that'shappening, all of these things
that you're coming intoawareness of you never would
have had in your turning 40,turning 30, definitely not. This
is fucking beautiful, likeyou're all of this stuff, of
life, all these likerelationships and kids and

(01:06:19):
everywhere that you've seenyourself and all the roles that
you played like they're justgiving you such a all this
wisdom, you know, and you'regetting to kind of bring it all
together into the next phase ofyour life. So I think it's cool.
Yeah, it is. I can't wait tohear all the other conversations
you have.
It's, you know what? It's whenyou go, wow, 50, that's like,

(01:06:43):
you know, is it halfway throughmy life? It is something that it
does make you take stock and go,Yeah, I've got to make sure that
I am actually living my all andliving the life that I want to
live. Yeah, because you don'tknow when your time's up, yeah,
yeah, yeah. All right. Well,thank you, Dale Dahl, it was a

(01:07:06):
pleasureto hull. It was lovely to
collect you,especially since you just come
off the plane, and I just like,took you away, whipped you to
the studio, only for you. Butthank you very much. Thank you
buck. I'm nearly 50. Is allabout embracing this next
chapter, finding more joy,shaking things up and making

(01:07:29):
sure we hit 50 on our terms.
Today, we've learned thatmidlife isn't about slowing
down, it's about getting cleareron what really matters. If you
love this chat, make sure yousubscribe wherever you get your
podcast, share it with a friendand keep the conversation going

(01:07:50):
with me on social media. Butbefore we go, take Justine's try
that before your 50 tip. And whydon't you book a solo trip? I'm
definitely going to be doing it.
See where it takes. You havefun. Because fuck, we're nearly
50. But isn't it amazing? You.

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