September 6, 2023 • 39 mins
We welcome our “sister” to join us on this episode to get her perspective on the cult we grew up in. She’ll tell us about her childhood, which included abuse in her home as well, and we’ll discuss the influence of the church on her life. Despite growing up in the same environment, we had different experiences and challenges to face after leaving our sheltered church community.
While our childhoods had moments of camaraderie, we all suffered shadows of abuse and strict religious influence. High school brought its own set of challenges, with strict church attire leading to awkward social interactions. She’ll share how being thrust into the outside world without proper social skills and support led to a period of recklessness and depression.
But fear not, her journey did not end there. She found helpers along the way who offered guidance, leading her to make positive decisions for her future. She talks about pursuing college and a successful career.
As friends, we leaned on each other to find the courage to explore life outside our sheltered childhoods and we persevered! This authentic conversation will shed light on the power of seeking help, learning from mistakes, and understanding diverse perspectives in the journey of life.
Timeline Summary:
[6:52] - Comparing the extreme abuse in our “sister’s” household to mine.
[13:23] - How she still got to have a relationship with her dad despite the church's rules.
[17:11] - Finding out her mom actually supported her college plans at first before caving to the church elders.
[24:08] - Getting kicked out of the church at 17 and going off the rails.
[26:47] - Moving away from our hometown crew entirely at 25 to start over after imploding.
[35:24] - Why our “sister” took till almost 40 to get married.
If you're digging our stories and loving the ride, do us a solid - rate us, follow the podcast, and share it with your crew. Your reviews mean the world to us and keep us bringing you more f*ck'n authentic stories. Until next time, folks, stay f*ck'n authentic!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nick (00:05):
We unintentionally gave up. Over time we let ourselves
down. We didn't teach or respectthe struggle. Our value
disappeared over time replacedwith masks disguised as truth. I
mean, our words became empty andour presence became obsolete.
(00:26):
Now we face our biggeststruggle, and it's time to rip
the masks off. More than ever,it's time to return to our true
selves. Our real identity. It'stime to be fucking offensive.
Oh my god, guess who we havehere with us today? It's your
(00:51):
best friend. That was supposedto be my wife. It's like a three
sum podcast. Right.
Nancy (00:58):
There you go.
Nick (01:00):
We talked about that before. One of the previous
podcasts that before we hadgotten married, that they said
Nope. Can't fucking get married.
Nick. Jesus has someone for you.
And it's the girl that's yoursister. Your sister. You know
what?
Nancy (01:16):
Oh, I was like, I'm saying this. What happens?
What's my sister know? It's
Nick (01:21):
like, how did you guys
Nancy (01:23):
grow up together? Well, Jesus, Sister Nancy. Oh, yeah,
that's
Nick (01:26):
Well, that's true sister Nancy. But truly, yeah. But
being that it was sister you itwas just like
Sister (01:33):
your sister from another mister.
Nick (01:34):
There you go. Yeah, well, actually, it's funny, because so
there's a backstory to that too,for even before church because
our parents like my dad grew upwith my uncle. My dad grew up
with your dad. They all grew upin the same neighborhood. So
that was even before churchhappen.
Sister (01:51):
Yeah, they were all friends before. I mean, it was a
church, but not our church. Butyeah, that's what that was the
church. So we're secondgeneration. So our kids are a
third.
Nancy (02:01):
Oh, I didn't know that. I thought when the church split
that that's how you
Nick (02:05):
know so my grandparents first went to that church. I
think there was like, GoodShepherd or some shit like that
years ago.
Nancy (02:13):
And that's what your dad was going.
Sister (02:14):
Yeah, I mean, not. And you're my Italian church. No.
Nick (02:20):
I don't even think they were married at that time. Right
now. Our dads because they wereyounger. They where they grew
up. Kids like, oh, in the in thefucking neighborhood. All the
fucking Italians.
Nancy (02:30):
Oh, so you guys grew up in that little? Whedon? No, no,
I know. Parents. Oh, wow. That'sinteresting. Look
Sister (02:36):
at are second generation,
Nick (02:38):
my sister.
Nancy (02:41):
That makes total sense now in my head. Am I doing
married to you?
Nick (02:45):
But you know what, but that's actually that's actually
a funny thing. Because isn'tthat weird that that was
supposed to happen. But yet,isn't that the most fucked up
thing?
Sister (02:54):
Yeah, I mean, Jesus didn't give me that memo. But I
got that message.
Nick (02:58):
Yeah, I mean, I got the message. But I didn't. I didn't
listen to it. Shocker. I mean, Ilistened to it, but I didn't go
through with it. Yeah, yes, weknow. That's who I was supposed
to marry. But the funny thingabout it is, is now after all
that several decades later, youand Nancy are now best friends.
We live a block from each other.
Your son hangs out with with ourgranddaughters. Yeah.
Sister (03:22):
I always say Nick did good picking and giving how old
we were. We have known eachother for a very long time. Very
long time. Yeah, we had anexpedited so
Nick (03:35):
you guys expedited six months.
Sister (03:38):
didn't waste any time you guys met relatively young
even though we go further backright makes our typical good
ways back without right that Oh,no, we're not.
Nick (03:50):
With that being said. That awesome introduction. We wanted
to have you come on because wewere in the same church. We got
brought up the exact same way.
Yes, you guys did your mom waslike a leader in the church. My
mom was a leader in the church.
You know what I'm saying? Likethey had the inside scoop on
(04:10):
everything right? I innercircle. The inner circle. That's
it. Yes. The icy the innercircle are the so fuck that the
fucking action team. Yes, that'sright. That's what
Sister (04:21):
it was. See where the action
elders and all that stuff waspart of the team to at least the
secretary.
Nancy (04:29):
This is true. This is true.
Nick (04:31):
Your mom played the piano and she did she Anna she was the
piano with
Sister (04:36):
that center front.
Nick (04:39):
Yeah, we literally experienced all the same things.
But we literally have acompletely different fucking
perspective.
Sister (04:49):
Yes, in different paths, different paths, different
perspectives. Even thoughthroughout we were always in
tandem in parallel, we Yeah, wewere always there for each
other, let's say.
Nick (05:03):
Yeah, I mean, again, I got kicked out when I was young 13.
Everybody, mostly, except forone other guy. I think at that
time, everybody still stayedthere until the place broke up.
Yeah, it was a little different,where I sort of got kicked out.
I was away for a few years. Andthen came back. But backslider I
(05:24):
was excommunicated. I was Satan.
What I want to get at, and whatI want everybody listening to
understand is that's why thedifferent perspectives, and I
think those, they're reallyactually pretty far apart. But
yet, wow, we're still like,you're my wife's best friend.
You were like, still likebrothers and sisters. Yeah, we
(05:46):
you can have a difference ofopinion or a difference of life.
And still, this is the wholepoint of this podcast is we're
all fucking human. Yeah, we allhave our own, whatever you want
to call them beliefs, feelings,emotions. But that should never
get in the way of genuinefriendship cracked. So with
that, I would just sort of wantto go from the beginning for
(06:09):
you, right, your perspective,because I know that you went
through the same things and youdidn't have the feelings that I
had, or when you talk aboutgetting saved, sanctified, and
filled with the Holy Spirit andall that kind of stuff. The give
me sort of your perspective andrundown, we could talk about it
if you want. We don't have totalk about this. But there was
(06:29):
also a lot of abuse in yourhome. And I would venture to say
to be honest with you, eventhough I had my own abuse daily,
whether it's emotional orphysical abuse, I think in your
position, there was probablymore abuse going on in your home
than anybody that we grew upwith.
Sister (06:52):
I would agree. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, I think where wehave, what we have in common is
that our mothers were both walkthe line, Spare the rod, spoil
the child, all that stuff. Yeah,they were very foolishness out
of us. While we have came tofind out later that not every
parent was that way. We were inyour own home, you don't know
(07:12):
that you are basically sevendays a week you assume every
home is the same as yours. Butyeah, I would say my mother took
it to the extreme. And I thinkpart of it too, is there's
mental issues in our family. SoI think that combination of like
genetic, mental instability willcall you to put a time.
Nancy (07:40):
so kind, so kind of
Sister (07:42):
combined with this particular church that she
landed in, really made theperfect storm of an major, very
bad.
Nancy (07:51):
So how does she land in this church? Because I mean,
your dad was with her went tochurch, you went to church just
like Nick's parents first
Sister (07:59):
did from from my understanding, because of course
the adults in our life neverreally talked about and and and
so much of it was distastefulthat people didn't want to talk
about it. And a lot of it wasvery secretive. So there's not a
lot of truth with respect to howthat all started. But my
understanding is, my dad and momwere both in the same church at
(08:19):
the same time they met they'reboth Christian. Let's just do
this. You know what I mean? Theywere young, too. I mean, yeah.
Yeah. Early 20s.
Nick (08:27):
Like my mom, my mom and dad were fucking up. My mom got
married. 1718 years
Sister (08:33):
old. I mean, it's outrageous to think of that now
that you're married withchildren at like, 1819 years
old. It is crazy. I reallychanged a lot. Think about your
maturity level at that age. Andno, totally. I
Nancy (08:43):
was just telling them yesterday when we're riding
bike, like, I didn't realize howold the people were that were in
the church. And I'm like, theywere young.
Sister (08:52):
Yeah, yeah. So that was but that was pre the current the
church we grew up and that waspre that right? And then my
parents got divorced. When I wasthree months old. My mom went on
her own path of destruction.
It's the 70s Let's do she didthat whole business with adults
young adults did in the I don'tknow what you're talking about.
(09:14):
And then she got recruited tojoin this church by some someone
in that circle. I can't rememberexactly who but yeah, came into
there. When we were like I wasprobably I, that's one of the
disclaimers I wanted to know ismy memory as far as like yours
and specific events is veryfuzzy. But other people have
(09:35):
Total Recall like you and you
Nick (09:38):
know, you said that over the years. You've I remember you
telling Nancy all the time,because Nancy was always
interested about sort of this,this particular thing, and I
think it's interesting, youstill went through it, yes. But
our minds deal with thingscompletely different ways. And
this is one of those instancesthat blows me away, because it's
so fucking real to me and IRemember it just like it's
(10:01):
yesterday. And you You rememberit, but you don't remember like
the details of it? What do ourminds doing? Right? I'd love to
have somebody on here who, whocan sit down and talk to us
about how is that possible thatsomeone can remember something
in such detail? We go throughthe same exact fucking thing.
(10:22):
And someone else is just sort offuzzy and well,
Nancy (10:25):
obviously, but you weren't. I mean, you basically
said that within your walls, itwas totally different than your
walls. Maybe that abuse hadsomething to do with
Sister (10:33):
the Yeah, I mean, I've pulled out therapist here, I
guess. Oh, yeah. No, I mean,I've heard therapies that it's
like a self preservationmechanism, right, because I was
the observer to the amount ofabuse that was going on in my
house. So I was not as far as Irecall, not the subject of a lot
of that abuse. Because I was themiddle child that was like, you
(10:55):
told me to go eat sand. I willeat sand as quickly as why we
Nancy (10:59):
get that's why we get along. I was the same way. I was
the
Sister (11:01):
rule follower. And
Nick (11:03):
oh my god use exactly.
Nancy (11:05):
You want me to iron all these coals for you. And I'll
take me 15 hours. I'm here foryou want me to do? Yeah, I'm
there.
Nick (11:11):
Yeah, you guys have a rule? I hate you. I respect
Sister (11:16):
I respect the ability to stand in the face of that kind
of Absolutely. Power and pushagainst it. I just didn't have
it. Other people did. You did.
And I actually respect thatbecause you were able to be
yourself no matter what. Likethat's, that's huge. At that age
at that age. Yes. But for me, Ithat was not my approach. I was
(11:39):
like, alright, but I'm certainmy memory loss or lack of
memory, either. It's just howsome people are built. Yeah, but
I'm sure it was a selfpreservation because there was a
lot of really screwed up stuffbetween being in the church and
in our home and other things.
Nick (11:55):
It's a form of PTSD. Yeah, I again, I don't know, just me
talking to a therapist after 50years was like, what me? I don't
have a fucking problem. And thenall of a sudden, you go to a
therapist, and you're like, oh,no, you have a fucking problem.
Oh, well, thanks. Okay. What doyou put it on the table? You
tell me what to do? See, it gotthe
Sister (12:16):
picture. That being said, I was definitely very,
very depressed. If I think aboutmy childhood and try to conjure
up like, what was I doing? Howdid I feel? I was very, very
depressed, in hindsight. And itmanifested itself later as an as
an adult. I mean, it was just avery dark cloud, you had moments
(12:38):
where you could enjoy things,obviously, us being friends, all
the kids, we got along we need,we took our situation and had as
much fun as we could with theboundaries of what we were
allowed to do. And honestly, ourfather had interest in seeing a
so he had visitation. You knowwhat I mean? So different than a
(13:00):
lot of the kids, of course, wasthe MO a single mom, not much
education, a bunch of kids,let's let's bring them into
this. Because those are theweakest people that we can find.
We were very lucky. On our side,at least me and my sibling that
we had a father who cared enoughto be stay involved. I guess he
(13:21):
could, despite all the others.
Nick (13:23):
I think this goes back to just part of my story. This is
part of the difference, right?
You and your sister had your dadthat wanted to do that. We had
some other friends whosegrandparents were very much
involved in them. And everySunday or whatever
Sister (13:39):
they were, we know in the normality,
Nick (13:41):
we were told just the opposite, right? If we were to
see my dad, we needed to run.
Because if we didn't, we wouldgo to hell because there was a
black cloud over him. So I thinkthe dynamic there was the
difference between theleadership and the preachers of
the Church we were going toafter my dad's aunt and uncle,
my great aunt and uncle had leftto open up their own church and
there was that animosity andthat hatred towards each other
(14:04):
that they allowed and portrayedon to their kids. And so then
that's where that got fucked up.
Yeah, being again in the sameplace but completely different
experiences with that and it wasweird when I say that because
when I say different experiencesthat doesn't make sense to me
(14:24):
because literally we grew upthose were the only people you
were able to hang with Yeah 365days a fucking year.
Christmases, Thanksgivingsbirthdays, everything you
couldn't school it was 24 SamYeah, you couldn't use so it was
weird though that that was eventaking place and and that though
goes to the point of even ourparents how hypocritical things
(14:47):
were. Because if that's the wayGod wanted it, that how the fuck
were you getting to see your momand your dad? Right?
Nancy (14:53):
That's exactly what I was just gonna say. I'm like, How
the fuck was so two sided?
Sister (14:57):
It was the law. I mean, he was file.
Nancy (15:00):
No, no, I totally get it.
But I mean, still Yeah, youknow, it's just such a
difference.
Nick (15:06):
So there were differences, obviously, what we went through
when you were very depressed Iwant and you didn't remember
things as much, which is a lotof self preservation. Right? So
going through it being anobserver more than actually
being, I wouldn't say youweren't abused.
Sister (15:21):
I know I wasn't the I wasn't the victim of physical
abuse. You weren't
Nancy (15:26):
the punching bag in your household was
Sister (15:28):
not the person who was getting right. No, not, not me.
But all the mental, everythingthat came with the brainwashing
the thing that does stand out,though, is that when I was in
high school, I was reallymotivated to go to college. And
my mom at the time supportedthat I was really good in
school, I filled out all theforms that you would do, I went
(15:50):
to a really good high schoolthat prepares you for college.
And in the beginning of mysenior year, I took all the
SATs, I was really motivated,and my dad was ready to fund all
of that, which is a hugeopportunity. And then the next
thing I know I'm in that backoffice at the church with the
elders, including my mother atthat table saying, How dare you
(16:15):
think you can go to college?
Education is putting yourselfabove God. And just slayed down.
Nancy (16:23):
I didn't realize that she was okay with it at first. Oh,
Sister (16:25):
yes. She promoted it. I mean, I was at her alma mater
High School. That's high schoolshe graduated from it was like a
lot of like, energy around. I'mgonna get to go to college.
Everything and then wow, withouthaving a conversation with me
beforehand. I get pulled intothat room. at that table.
Nick (16:45):
I can throw punch you right in front of all these
people. Yeah, it was downhillfrom there. I
Sister (16:49):
mean, that's sort of just
Nancy (16:50):
how the fuck was that?
Yeah.
Nick (16:52):
This is like weird.
Realize that. Yeah, this is thefirst time I'm hearing that your
mom. And this is an interestingpoint was even behind you, when
we were growing up. Educationwas nothing right? That's why
I'm like so shocking. As amatter of fact, fuck
Nancy (17:09):
was she on that
Sister (17:11):
day, it must have taken her back to those days because
she was also an academic. Yes,she was go to college. And that
did not work out for her. Somaybe in a way she was living
vicariously through me. And thenthat edge of her world
Nancy (17:26):
so somebody must have found out in church Yes. was
happening when
Sister (17:29):
he found out and yeah, I just got pulled in as if I had
Nick (17:33):
so instead of her taken that instead of her saying no, I
bet my life. She wasn't shethrew you under the bus gave you
a quick fucking fist to thethroat.
Sister (17:44):
I mean, it's throughout your life. There's critical
decision points, decisions thatyou make or other people make
for you that change the courseof your life. And that was
definitely one of
Nick (17:55):
my question is because I was already out, right? I was
gone. So you were in the school,the church had to school, the
Sister (18:02):
church and the school to go to public school because they
didn't offer junior and senior.
So
Nick (18:08):
that's what it was. So you didn't I was in eighth grade. I
was
Sister (18:13):
gone. Yeah. So I'm in this small church, six kids in
my class. So many years. I know.
And then yeah, so they stoppedoffering for whatever reason,
they probably didn't have peoplesmart enough
Nick (18:24):
to teach those classes.
Either smarter. Did
Nancy (18:27):
you say that? Louder? No, no.
Sister (18:28):
So I went from six seven kids in my class for several
years to high school poli HighSchool of 3000. Kids. Yeah.
Nick (18:36):
I'm just gonna say something here real quick. When
you said that about theteachers. I'm sorry. I don't
mean to go off subject. 3000Kids, let's remember. Yeah, I
right now would fuckingchallenge any of those people,
any of those adults? Who has theballs to actually get on this
podcasts with us? I want to knowtheir point of view here.
(18:58):
Definitely. Like I want to knowtheir story. This isn't a place
of judgment. I'm not here tojudge. I personally, I don't
know where you stand on this.
Honestly. We've never reallytalked about it. I've personally
forgiven I don't give a fuckyeah, there's a couple people
that I would probably throwpunch. I would say there's a
couple of people I'm not gonna,
Nancy (19:14):
well, we don't invite those here then. I'm just long
distance. Maybe.
Sister (19:19):
bygones be bygones?
We've been out of it long. Wewere in all that good stuff.
Nick (19:25):
Our lives are awesome.
Yeah, we have great fuckinglives. So I'm not worried about
that. But I just would love toget the perspective. And the
insight as to one of thoseadults going through this to
come onto this podcast. Yeah.
And actually bear their fuckingsoul. Because you want to talk
about healing. But anyway, goahead. 3000 students, you go in
Sister (19:48):
Yeah, obviously culture shock. I soaked up the academics
socially, obviously, a hot mess.
I couldn't go to my lockerbecause people would talk to me
so I would carry my bags around.
I wear skirts. Every day therewas a 13 minute homeroom that I
would just grit my teeth andeveryone would guys would make
fun of me and all you know whatI mean? So all the social
(20:08):
socially I was Iraq but in thepicture here arrived.
Nick (20:12):
We're talking about the way you dress is exactly. And I
think I said this before in thevery first episode. It's almost
like Amish. Nearly you know whatI mean? Like,
Unknown (20:22):
yeah, nice miniskirts?
Yeah. Because the girls had towear at least a three quarter
sleeve and below, below theknee. We were wearing leg
warmers because it's the onlything trendy we fashionable and
we remember the closest
Nick (20:35):
thing to a bit of luck and
Sister (20:37):
they look different every single day not like just
once in a while looked weird. SoI had zero social skills to deal
with my peers. That's thefucking truth. Well, you got out
a little earlier and that wayyou were around well, even
though relation before us. Yeah,
Nick (20:54):
this is about you. But even when I went to school, I
had no fucking clue. Like,seriously, there's this black
dude, we didn't know. Seriously,how did we grow up? It was all
white fucking people. There wereno they were prejudiced. Of
course, but I mean, let's justsay what it is. But but when I
went to school, and I saw thisdude, I honestly was like, to
him big dude. His name wasUlysses. I'll never forget it.
(21:16):
And I said to him, I says, Man,you just out of sheer
observation. So man, you gotsome big lips. Seriously, I was
a fucking kid that grew up andabout altered and fucking, I had
no clue. And that motherfuckerpunched me in the washer right
smack in my fucking mouth.
That's why
Sister (21:36):
whenever anybody talks about and I know homeschooling
or whatever, all this stuff,there's so much as changed. And
ours was very different becauseit was a cult. But anytime
there's Let's separate ourselvesfrom the outside world to
protect us. And this is good forit's not good for you. You need
to be out in the world.
Nick (21:52):
You need to fail your you need to social skills, the good
and the bad.
Sister (21:55):
Yeah. 100% need to be out in the world. Yeah, it's
trying to shelter your kids fromharm. And by putting them in
these really small littlebubbles. It doesn't serve you
later,
Nick (22:04):
this motherfucker punched me in the face. And you know
what he said to me? Now you knowhow it feels? To have some big
motherfucking lips? That'sactually he did. Yeah. And I was
like, Okay, I'll never say that,again, is beyond his years. I
learned a lot of lessons in thatone.
Nancy (22:19):
You learn it pretty quick.
Sister (22:21):
Well, that was that was the theme because I laughed at
what like 17 is when the churchbroke up, and I immediately left
home. And that was on my ownfrom 17 and beyond. And from 17
to however old I am right now,I'm still Arrested Development,
you had to figure it out on yourown. And it's not like we had
friends in the generalpopulation, we can be like, how
(22:43):
am I supposed to navigate? Well,
Nancy (22:44):
your friends were in the same church.
Nick (22:47):
Or if you did what we were nobody really understands what
you went through. So it didn'tmatter. Because they couldn't
even give you advice based offof experience. Yeah, especially
they could maybe give you somebasic fucking point in
Sister (23:01):
time when you're alive.
And you start like noticing theopposite sex or whoever you're
attracted to then 12 You knowwhat I mean? All of those. We
didn't know any milestones thatyou get. We skipped all of those
at the right age. And then weit's like getting thrown and
Nancy (23:15):
thrown into the deep end.
And we talked to like your mom.
It's like, that fear that youalways had you were going to
hell so
Nick (23:23):
you're out. Yeah. And the church breaks up. Yeah, so that
wasn't like purposeful thinglike you left a backflip the
church actually fucking broke upthat for so sure will be
discussed. We will I'm sure whenI got kicked out at 13. Dude, it
was like I was a totallydifferent person. But I had so
much anger and animosity andquestions and pain and fear and
(23:48):
all that shit that I had tofigure out on top of being 13
years old on top of learninglife like the world I didn't
even know you were 17 You wentthrough a little bit more right?
Other than 13 which in theseyears doesn't matter, because
you were still sheltered. It'sthe same bullshit. What happens
though, after that,
Sister (24:08):
so my focus so fucking crazy after that was I mean, I
obviously didn't go to college,some of our peers join the armed
forces because it was like, theydon't know what to do. So let's
just go do that or so I got ajob. Thankfully, my sister was
already out in the real worldand got me a job. So that was
great. So I knew I needed a joband somewhere to live. And then
(24:31):
yeah, it was, I did go off therails, all the things that you
would do in your teens, I wasdoing in my late teens, early
20s. I probably went off therails easily. Doing everything,
everything, just smoking, thewearing of the pants,
Nancy (24:48):
so to make up to
Sister (24:51):
because I didn't know how to that was. That's an art
form. I never learned it. Istill have it.
Nick (24:57):
But I think it's so funny is that we're talking Talking
about you went crazy. And we'retalking smoking. And we're
talking wearing pants. Do itthis is you are so crazy oodles
of television. Off to me like Istill laugh. We laugh because
this is years past and we wentthrough it and we're much better
(25:18):
people. But two that is fuckedup. We're talking about bad
things. And we're talking aboutwearing pants and letting your
hair down and,
Sister (25:27):
and obviously drinking and drugs, you know, only
because I didn't want to die. Ithink I was around heavy drugs,
but I just never wanted to tryit like drugs. Bring it? Yeah,
alcohol. Too much. Yeah, butyeah, and all the bad decisions
you make when you're doing thosekinds of things, combined with
(25:49):
the fact that you don't know howto handle your health. So
socially. So it's a really badcombo. But on top of being
depressed, yes. And to yourpoint where you're angry, and
you're lashing out and all thisstuff. Depression is as they
say, anger turned inwards. Soyou were letting your anger out.
Yeah. All this time, I'mdistracted by all the things I
(26:12):
was doing. I'm depressed. Sothat doesn't finally manifest
itself as I need help. Until Iwas in my 20s. When I lived in
Virginia, I had what theycalled, you know, a psychotic
break. And the whole my wholeworld fell apart. That's when I
started getting treatment andwas on that I was seeing both
(26:33):
kinds of doctors and takingantidepressants for many years
before I finally got myself backtogether. But thankfully, I was
able to maintain a job andeverything. But yeah, the
depression was definitelythrough line throughout all of
that. And then
Nancy (26:47):
you left here, you left the people you knew, and were
close to yeah, all your life,because you wish we were still
hanging around with all thosepeople. I mean, I know our house
became a party house, andeveryone would just come over.
You decided, like what made youthink that I think that was like
my biggest Soviet besides otheryou know, I get it. But what
(27:09):
made you decide, I need to goback to college.
Sister (27:11):
So there was a couple things. And there's a couple of
adults that were really pivotalin my life and making that
decision. So again, I told you,my sister helped me get a real
job in the city, which wasgreat. If you can type, he can
get a job back then. So I was asecretary at an ad agency and my
boss, Ernie Brown, who I mayhave passed by now. But he was
an amazing person and reallygave me he was like my mentor.
(27:35):
So I'm working at this company,and I hit my salary cap. Oh,
even better. That's Yes, you canonly make so much money as a
secretary.
Nick (27:44):
I mean, you could have done other things to make a
little more
Nancy (27:50):
that I could attack. She just got out of church for
crying. And
Sister (27:53):
then my mom's my mom, what's
Nick (27:55):
the fuck she was rather
Sister (27:56):
who was always there for us? My uncle, Oh, wow. Has
throughout his life. Even thoughhe lived on a different coast,
he would come in, it was hissister, we were his nieces and
nephews. So he would come in andsort of always come in and clean
up the messes domestically, buyfood or do whatever to take care
(28:16):
of us when he was in town. Andhe had the foresight to say,
look, you're at a point in yourlife. It's a decision time, if
you want to go to college now asan adult, I was 25, I will help
you do that. Oh, wow. So it wasthat combination of and I will
never, I'm always indebted tothose two people, one for
(28:36):
earning being such a mentor. Andwhen I quit, he said, If you
quit for any other reason, Iwouldn't let you do it. But
that's a great thing to do. Andmy uncle just for having the
foresight of saying I'm going tohelp you be successful. He
helped me pay off my debts. Andwhat got me started, he wasn't
envisioning that I would leavethe state of Illinois when I
made that. But I really was justready for a fresh start. And I
(29:00):
had a friend who lived inPennsylvania, and I'm like, why
not gonna do this? I might aswell go back. And it was really
because I knew our mutual friendin Pennsylvania and Penn State
was a good school. And I'm like,This sounds all sounds really
cool. Now that I can see beyondjust my little job in this
little right thing. Yeah, theyhelped open that up for me.
(29:22):
That's all so
Nick (29:23):
you, you wind up going to college, you wind up going back
there and you wind up gettingout of college? Yes. And you
wind up staying there for awhile to actually work because I
Sister (29:32):
basically got recruited out at school to the current
company that I am. So wow, thatwas sort of like another piece
of the puzzle where if I hadgotten out of college, and it's
so tough now to find a job, butat that time in that industry,
they recruited you onto yourcampus. It was a 45 minute
(29:52):
interview, and I got an offerletter in the mail. And I'm
like, All right, that seems likethe right thing to do. Yeah.
Nick (29:59):
So I just think it's Awesome because this, this goes
to the point that we talk about,we just don't realize what we go
through in our lives, like wereally don't like we just do it,
we just go through in here youare going through the same
situation that I did, I'll be ata different perspective, but it
was the same thing. You get out,you're 17, you still don't know
(30:21):
what life is about. You don'tknow how to handle yourself, you
go crazy for like seven or eightyears, you just easily you
decide to get out of that youget help getting out of that,
which is awesome, which is sofucking key. Somebody helping
out. Nobody had to do that.
Sister (30:37):
Well, that's one of the things too is we didn't have a
support other than each other asfriend. We had no supports. And
I can't say dad was there andall these pitiful people in my
life. But on a day to day basis.
No, you guys didn't have any.
Like now I call Google my mom,because everything I need to
know.
Nick (30:54):
But when we're growing up, we don't even look to our house.
When we're growing up, we don'teven look as our parents as a
support system. Right? They'rejust your parents right? Now as
adults, we realized that thatwas some sort of a support
system. Right. But I think goingthrough all of this, we don't
realize and then just the factthat there is a company, which
(31:15):
is a major company that youstill work for today, like one
of the largest companies inAmerica. Yes. They come to your
school, little you. You knowwhat I'm saying? Don't have a
clue where you came from. Don'tknow where your minds at none of
that. And they give you achance, but you busted your ass
to get to them. Oh, this wasn'tsomething like that. Just Oh,
(31:38):
somebody just handed over yourass. That's the point here.
Sister (31:42):
Yeah. When I was in college, I had one major thing
going for me, which is this hasto work or I fail. And I have no
no fallback. Because that's onething. And the other thing that
now I'm I'm not, I am a smartperson. But the level of
education we had, especially inmath was a huge Crippler.
Nick (32:05):
But this is why did but no, this is my point. This is
why this is such a big fuckingdeal. Yes.
Sister (32:10):
Huge. Yeah. And I paid Yeah. And I paid me. So now I'll
give myself props.
Nancy (32:16):
That's it right there.
It's like we go through it. Andwe don't realize all the shit we
tell you right now you as mydrink.
Nick (32:26):
You have to fucking see that's the thing we never give
ourselves. We don't loveourselves enough. And I'm not
trying to get deep here. But I'msaying we don't. We don't care
or love ourselves enough to giveourselves credit for the fucking
shit that we went through forwhat we had to endure as kids.
We're talking kids
Sister (32:47):
that sets the baseline for your for your whole life.
Live your whole life.
Nick (32:51):
Yeah, get out and do what you do. And with that beginning,
you're still fucking who you aretoday. Yeah. Which is
unbelievable. And, and anybodywho is in your life should be
fucking grateful. Yeah, and Imean,
Nancy (33:06):
I am I am grateful. I'm saying no, I think yeah, to
Nick (33:11):
be able to be in the presence. And this is why people
don't know we go through it.
We're not going out here doingand I know, it takes a lot of
courage to come on here and dothis. Because you're putting
yourself out there. You'reYou're becoming vulnerable. I
hate those fucking wordsvulnerable trigger trauma, all
the fucking new woke fuckingslang. But the bottom line is
it's true. You're puttingyourself out there. Nancy talked
(33:31):
about this on one of thepodcasts where you're like, I
don't really want people to knowsome of this stuff. But it's
like, the fuck is going on? Whatare they going to do to you? And
I'm not saying we need to saynames and all that. I'm just
saying that we need to giveourselves credit for the fucking
bullshit for the absolute abusethat we went through.
Sister (33:51):
Yeah, we were we were Yeah, at risk coming out the
door, as they say now, but yeah,you have to dig deep and find
your own grit. When you look upand realize there's really
nobody around you on a day today basis. Again, I want to
minimize all the support I gotfrom the people in my life that
really gave me so much. But atthe end of the day, it's you.
(34:14):
And if you don't do it, it's notgoing to happen. Yeah. Yeah.
That's reality of it. Versus andof course, we're not the worst
case. And we're not the bestcase. But that was my my
motivation throughout all ofthat was I've got to get myself
well because if I'm likefreaking out then I'm on the
(34:35):
street. So I have to pulltogether.
Nick (34:37):
You lived in your car.
Yeah, I remember it. Yeah. Imean, I remember it before you
lived in your car friendscouches and couches and whatever
it takes whatever it took,
Nancy (34:49):
and that's it right there. It's whatever took you
actually go through it. YouYeah, it's awesome.
Nick (34:55):
So you get out of college, you're banging it. You're doing
your thing. You're you're movingalong and All throughout the
years, you're still doing it.
One of the things that we alwayswere like, Yeah, but when is she
going to fucking get married?
Because dude for a while there,so you went through your thing,
right? And I understand youweren't ready to commit to
(35:15):
something, which was anotherthing. Do you think that part of
that was because you might havehad commitment issues or love
issues or something? Because itdid take a little bit? I mean,
yeah,
Sister (35:24):
no, it definitely took a long time. I think it was two
probably two major factors. Oneis, when I got out of school, it
was all about the grind and thework. I was literally a shell of
myself at a house here I wasworking from you are working 8am
to midnight, one in the morning,I was surrounded by people who
(35:46):
were in the same boat, like allof us were out of college.
Granted, they were five yearsyounger, what have you, but it
was all about the work combinedwith the fact that I still
didn't really know how to
Nancy (35:58):
date people or social aspect was the social aspect of
it.
Sister (36:03):
Like I still had while I was having my time when I was
trying to learn things. I wasn'tdoing it right. So trying to
have a healthy, strongrelationship with a good person,
no clue how to do any of that. Ididn't come out of my work mode.
Until I was settled in my job.
I'm like, alright, and I lookedup and I'm 30 something years
(36:24):
old. I'm like, Oh, wait, I'msingle. But we talked a lot
about it at the time. I didn'tmeet my current my first husband
as I like to call it my husbanduntil I was what 39 Yeah, he
Nick (36:38):
was he's, he was a catch.
He is a cat. She is
Sister (36:42):
tall. So no, but yeah, I had a real Izzy I looked up and
is a woman that's really, reallylate. I know. It's common in a
lot of places. But yeah, thenthen that became my job like,
Alright, I've got my work thingssorted out,
Nick (36:55):
even though we've been friends this whole time, our
whole lives. And even thoughwe're around the same age, yep.
Your son is the same age as ourgranddaughter. Yes. So that's.
So that's, there's nothing wrongwith that. I just, it just goes
to show again,
Nancy (37:13):
it happened. People know, we
Nick (37:15):
can't have it. Yeah,
Sister (37:16):
I mean, and I think as far as us, you and I and Nancy,
throughout all of that beingliving across states, we did
maintain our friendship. And Iam really so grateful. Because
not everybody has those kind ofroots. In friendship, we're
saying that where you can stayfriends, no matter where you
(37:37):
are, geographically, you havesuch strong roots, that you're
always going to reconnect orstay connected, and still to
Nick (37:45):
this day, and even with your sister and her kids. And
now they have kids. It's crazy.
So it's awesome. It'sunimaginable to some people,
especially going through what wewent through. And so I think
that that's pretty awesome. No,it is. So maybe we'll get
together at some point in thefuture
Nancy (38:07):
just having a conversation here.
Nick (38:09):
Which is so fucking No, we
Nancy (38:10):
really appreciate it.
Nick (38:12):
Ya know,
Unknown (38:13):
what's awesome for you
Nick (38:15):
to also, I don't know, I just for us, like just talking
about this shit. Just released.
It feels just free just to justeven let it go even more. You
know what I'm saying? And I knowwe're old and I know it's been a
while but you just put it outthere and the fucking Universe
picks it up and does whatever itwants with it and people can do
whatever they want with it. AndI think we'll get together later
time. Yeah, at a later time andthanks
Sister (38:39):
for being so fucking authentic.
Nancy (38:43):
Thank you.
Nick (38:45):
I cool. So I hope everybody enjoyed you guys
listen on to the next episodebecause we're going to just keep
going with this story. Adios
We unintentionally gave up. Over time we let ourselves
down. We didn't teach or respectthe struggle. Our value
disappeared over time replacedwith masks disguised as truth. I
mean, our words became empty andour presence became obsolete.
(00:26):
Now we face our biggeststruggle, and it's time to rip
the masks off. More than ever,it's time to return to our true
selves. Our real identity. It'stime to be fucking offensive.
Oh my god, guess who we havehere with us today? It's your
(00:51):
best friend. That was supposedto be my wife. It's like a three
sum podcast. Right.
Nancy (00:58):
There you go.
Nick (01:00):
We talked about that before. One of the previous
podcasts that before we hadgotten married, that they said
Nope. Can't fucking get married.
Nick. Jesus has someone for you.
And it's the girl that's yoursister. Your sister. You know
what?
Nancy (01:16):
Oh, I was like, I'm saying this. What happens?
What's my sister know? It's
Nick (01:21):
like, how did you guys
Nancy (01:23):
grow up together? Well, Jesus, Sister Nancy. Oh, yeah,
that's
Nick (01:26):
Well, that's true sister Nancy. But truly, yeah. But
being that it was sister you itwas just like
Sister (01:33):
your sister from another mister.
Nick (01:34):
There you go. Yeah, well, actually, it's funny, because so
there's a backstory to that too,for even before church because
our parents like my dad grew upwith my uncle. My dad grew up
with your dad. They all grew upin the same neighborhood. So
that was even before churchhappen.
Sister (01:51):
Yeah, they were all friends before. I mean, it was a
church, but not our church. Butyeah, that's what that was the
church. So we're secondgeneration. So our kids are a
third.
Nancy (02:01):
Oh, I didn't know that. I thought when the church split
that that's how you
Nick (02:05):
know so my grandparents first went to that church. I
think there was like, GoodShepherd or some shit like that
years ago.
Nancy (02:13):
And that's what your dad was going.
Sister (02:14):
Yeah, I mean, not. And you're my Italian church. No.
Nick (02:20):
I don't even think they were married at that time. Right
now. Our dads because they wereyounger. They where they grew
up. Kids like, oh, in the in thefucking neighborhood. All the
fucking Italians.
Nancy (02:30):
Oh, so you guys grew up in that little? Whedon? No, no,
I know. Parents. Oh, wow. That'sinteresting. Look
Sister (02:36):
at are second generation,
Nick (02:38):
my sister.
Nancy (02:41):
That makes total sense now in my head. Am I doing
married to you?
Nick (02:45):
But you know what, but that's actually that's actually
a funny thing. Because isn'tthat weird that that was
supposed to happen. But yet,isn't that the most fucked up
thing?
Sister (02:54):
Yeah, I mean, Jesus didn't give me that memo. But I
got that message.
Nick (02:58):
Yeah, I mean, I got the message. But I didn't. I didn't
listen to it. Shocker. I mean, Ilistened to it, but I didn't go
through with it. Yeah, yes, weknow. That's who I was supposed
to marry. But the funny thingabout it is, is now after all
that several decades later, youand Nancy are now best friends.
We live a block from each other.
Your son hangs out with with ourgranddaughters. Yeah.
Sister (03:22):
I always say Nick did good picking and giving how old
we were. We have known eachother for a very long time. Very
long time. Yeah, we had anexpedited so
Nick (03:35):
you guys expedited six months.
Sister (03:38):
didn't waste any time you guys met relatively young
even though we go further backright makes our typical good
ways back without right that Oh,no, we're not.
Nick (03:50):
With that being said. That awesome introduction. We wanted
to have you come on because wewere in the same church. We got
brought up the exact same way.
Yes, you guys did your mom waslike a leader in the church. My
mom was a leader in the church.
You know what I'm saying? Likethey had the inside scoop on
(04:10):
everything right? I innercircle. The inner circle. That's
it. Yes. The icy the innercircle are the so fuck that the
fucking action team. Yes, that'sright. That's what
Sister (04:21):
it was. See where the action
elders and all that stuff waspart of the team to at least the
secretary.
Nancy (04:29):
This is true. This is true.
Nick (04:31):
Your mom played the piano and she did she Anna she was the
piano with
Sister (04:36):
that center front.
Nick (04:39):
Yeah, we literally experienced all the same things.
But we literally have acompletely different fucking
perspective.
Sister (04:49):
Yes, in different paths, different paths, different
perspectives. Even thoughthroughout we were always in
tandem in parallel, we Yeah, wewere always there for each
other, let's say.
Nick (05:03):
Yeah, I mean, again, I got kicked out when I was young 13.
Everybody, mostly, except forone other guy. I think at that
time, everybody still stayedthere until the place broke up.
Yeah, it was a little different,where I sort of got kicked out.
I was away for a few years. Andthen came back. But backslider I
(05:24):
was excommunicated. I was Satan.
What I want to get at, and whatI want everybody listening to
understand is that's why thedifferent perspectives, and I
think those, they're reallyactually pretty far apart. But
yet, wow, we're still like,you're my wife's best friend.
You were like, still likebrothers and sisters. Yeah, we
(05:46):
you can have a difference ofopinion or a difference of life.
And still, this is the wholepoint of this podcast is we're
all fucking human. Yeah, we allhave our own, whatever you want
to call them beliefs, feelings,emotions. But that should never
get in the way of genuinefriendship cracked. So with
that, I would just sort of wantto go from the beginning for
(06:09):
you, right, your perspective,because I know that you went
through the same things and youdidn't have the feelings that I
had, or when you talk aboutgetting saved, sanctified, and
filled with the Holy Spirit andall that kind of stuff. The give
me sort of your perspective andrundown, we could talk about it
if you want. We don't have totalk about this. But there was
(06:29):
also a lot of abuse in yourhome. And I would venture to say
to be honest with you, eventhough I had my own abuse daily,
whether it's emotional orphysical abuse, I think in your
position, there was probablymore abuse going on in your home
than anybody that we grew upwith.
Sister (06:52):
I would agree. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, I think where wehave, what we have in common is
that our mothers were both walkthe line, Spare the rod, spoil
the child, all that stuff. Yeah,they were very foolishness out
of us. While we have came tofind out later that not every
parent was that way. We were inyour own home, you don't know
(07:12):
that you are basically sevendays a week you assume every
home is the same as yours. Butyeah, I would say my mother took
it to the extreme. And I thinkpart of it too, is there's
mental issues in our family. SoI think that combination of like
genetic, mental instability willcall you to put a time.
Nancy (07:40):
so kind, so kind of
Sister (07:42):
combined with this particular church that she
landed in, really made theperfect storm of an major, very
bad.
Nancy (07:51):
So how does she land in this church? Because I mean,
your dad was with her went tochurch, you went to church just
like Nick's parents first
Sister (07:59):
did from from my understanding, because of course
the adults in our life neverreally talked about and and and
so much of it was distastefulthat people didn't want to talk
about it. And a lot of it wasvery secretive. So there's not a
lot of truth with respect to howthat all started. But my
understanding is, my dad and momwere both in the same church at
(08:19):
the same time they met they'reboth Christian. Let's just do
this. You know what I mean? Theywere young, too. I mean, yeah.
Yeah. Early 20s.
Nick (08:27):
Like my mom, my mom and dad were fucking up. My mom got
married. 1718 years
Sister (08:33):
old. I mean, it's outrageous to think of that now
that you're married withchildren at like, 1819 years
old. It is crazy. I reallychanged a lot. Think about your
maturity level at that age. Andno, totally. I
Nancy (08:43):
was just telling them yesterday when we're riding
bike, like, I didn't realize howold the people were that were in
the church. And I'm like, theywere young.
Sister (08:52):
Yeah, yeah. So that was but that was pre the current the
church we grew up and that waspre that right? And then my
parents got divorced. When I wasthree months old. My mom went on
her own path of destruction.
It's the 70s Let's do she didthat whole business with adults
young adults did in the I don'tknow what you're talking about.
(09:14):
And then she got recruited tojoin this church by some someone
in that circle. I can't rememberexactly who but yeah, came into
there. When we were like I wasprobably I, that's one of the
disclaimers I wanted to know ismy memory as far as like yours
and specific events is veryfuzzy. But other people have
(09:35):
Total Recall like you and you
Nick (09:38):
know, you said that over the years. You've I remember you
telling Nancy all the time,because Nancy was always
interested about sort of this,this particular thing, and I
think it's interesting, youstill went through it, yes. But
our minds deal with thingscompletely different ways. And
this is one of those instancesthat blows me away, because it's
so fucking real to me and IRemember it just like it's
(10:01):
yesterday. And you You rememberit, but you don't remember like
the details of it? What do ourminds doing? Right? I'd love to
have somebody on here who, whocan sit down and talk to us
about how is that possible thatsomeone can remember something
in such detail? We go throughthe same exact fucking thing.
(10:22):
And someone else is just sort offuzzy and well,
Nancy (10:25):
obviously, but you weren't. I mean, you basically
said that within your walls, itwas totally different than your
walls. Maybe that abuse hadsomething to do with
Sister (10:33):
the Yeah, I mean, I've pulled out therapist here, I
guess. Oh, yeah. No, I mean,I've heard therapies that it's
like a self preservationmechanism, right, because I was
the observer to the amount ofabuse that was going on in my
house. So I was not as far as Irecall, not the subject of a lot
of that abuse. Because I was themiddle child that was like, you
(10:55):
told me to go eat sand. I willeat sand as quickly as why we
Nancy (10:59):
get that's why we get along. I was the same way. I was
the
Sister (11:01):
rule follower. And
Nick (11:03):
oh my god use exactly.
Nancy (11:05):
You want me to iron all these coals for you. And I'll
take me 15 hours. I'm here foryou want me to do? Yeah, I'm
there.
Nick (11:11):
Yeah, you guys have a rule? I hate you. I respect
Sister (11:16):
I respect the ability to stand in the face of that kind
of Absolutely. Power and pushagainst it. I just didn't have
it. Other people did. You did.
And I actually respect thatbecause you were able to be
yourself no matter what. Likethat's, that's huge. At that age
at that age. Yes. But for me, Ithat was not my approach. I was
(11:39):
like, alright, but I'm certainmy memory loss or lack of
memory, either. It's just howsome people are built. Yeah, but
I'm sure it was a selfpreservation because there was a
lot of really screwed up stuffbetween being in the church and
in our home and other things.
Nick (11:55):
It's a form of PTSD. Yeah, I again, I don't know, just me
talking to a therapist after 50years was like, what me? I don't
have a fucking problem. And thenall of a sudden, you go to a
therapist, and you're like, oh,no, you have a fucking problem.
Oh, well, thanks. Okay. What doyou put it on the table? You
tell me what to do? See, it gotthe
Sister (12:16):
picture. That being said, I was definitely very,
very depressed. If I think aboutmy childhood and try to conjure
up like, what was I doing? Howdid I feel? I was very, very
depressed, in hindsight. And itmanifested itself later as an as
an adult. I mean, it was just avery dark cloud, you had moments
(12:38):
where you could enjoy things,obviously, us being friends, all
the kids, we got along we need,we took our situation and had as
much fun as we could with theboundaries of what we were
allowed to do. And honestly, ourfather had interest in seeing a
so he had visitation. You knowwhat I mean? So different than a
(13:00):
lot of the kids, of course, wasthe MO a single mom, not much
education, a bunch of kids,let's let's bring them into
this. Because those are theweakest people that we can find.
We were very lucky. On our side,at least me and my sibling that
we had a father who cared enoughto be stay involved. I guess he
(13:21):
could, despite all the others.
Nick (13:23):
I think this goes back to just part of my story. This is
part of the difference, right?
You and your sister had your dadthat wanted to do that. We had
some other friends whosegrandparents were very much
involved in them. And everySunday or whatever
Sister (13:39):
they were, we know in the normality,
Nick (13:41):
we were told just the opposite, right? If we were to
see my dad, we needed to run.
Because if we didn't, we wouldgo to hell because there was a
black cloud over him. So I thinkthe dynamic there was the
difference between theleadership and the preachers of
the Church we were going toafter my dad's aunt and uncle,
my great aunt and uncle had leftto open up their own church and
there was that animosity andthat hatred towards each other
(14:04):
that they allowed and portrayedon to their kids. And so then
that's where that got fucked up.
Yeah, being again in the sameplace but completely different
experiences with that and it wasweird when I say that because
when I say different experiencesthat doesn't make sense to me
(14:24):
because literally we grew upthose were the only people you
were able to hang with Yeah 365days a fucking year.
Christmases, Thanksgivingsbirthdays, everything you
couldn't school it was 24 SamYeah, you couldn't use so it was
weird though that that was eventaking place and and that though
goes to the point of even ourparents how hypocritical things
(14:47):
were. Because if that's the wayGod wanted it, that how the fuck
were you getting to see your momand your dad? Right?
Nancy (14:53):
That's exactly what I was just gonna say. I'm like, How
the fuck was so two sided?
Sister (14:57):
It was the law. I mean, he was file.
Nancy (15:00):
No, no, I totally get it.
But I mean, still Yeah, youknow, it's just such a
difference.
Nick (15:06):
So there were differences, obviously, what we went through
when you were very depressed Iwant and you didn't remember
things as much, which is a lotof self preservation. Right? So
going through it being anobserver more than actually
being, I wouldn't say youweren't abused.
Sister (15:21):
I know I wasn't the I wasn't the victim of physical
abuse. You weren't
Nancy (15:26):
the punching bag in your household was
Sister (15:28):
not the person who was getting right. No, not, not me.
But all the mental, everythingthat came with the brainwashing
the thing that does stand out,though, is that when I was in
high school, I was reallymotivated to go to college. And
my mom at the time supportedthat I was really good in
school, I filled out all theforms that you would do, I went
(15:50):
to a really good high schoolthat prepares you for college.
And in the beginning of mysenior year, I took all the
SATs, I was really motivated,and my dad was ready to fund all
of that, which is a hugeopportunity. And then the next
thing I know I'm in that backoffice at the church with the
elders, including my mother atthat table saying, How dare you
(16:15):
think you can go to college?
Education is putting yourselfabove God. And just slayed down.
Nancy (16:23):
I didn't realize that she was okay with it at first. Oh,
Sister (16:25):
yes. She promoted it. I mean, I was at her alma mater
High School. That's high schoolshe graduated from it was like a
lot of like, energy around. I'mgonna get to go to college.
Everything and then wow, withouthaving a conversation with me
beforehand. I get pulled intothat room. at that table.
Nick (16:45):
I can throw punch you right in front of all these
people. Yeah, it was downhillfrom there. I
Sister (16:49):
mean, that's sort of just
Nancy (16:50):
how the fuck was that?
Yeah.
Nick (16:52):
This is like weird.
Realize that. Yeah, this is thefirst time I'm hearing that your
mom. And this is an interestingpoint was even behind you, when
we were growing up. Educationwas nothing right? That's why
I'm like so shocking. As amatter of fact, fuck
Nancy (17:09):
was she on that
Sister (17:11):
day, it must have taken her back to those days because
she was also an academic. Yes,she was go to college. And that
did not work out for her. Somaybe in a way she was living
vicariously through me. And thenthat edge of her world
Nancy (17:26):
so somebody must have found out in church Yes. was
happening when
Sister (17:29):
he found out and yeah, I just got pulled in as if I had
Nick (17:33):
so instead of her taken that instead of her saying no, I
bet my life. She wasn't shethrew you under the bus gave you
a quick fucking fist to thethroat.
Sister (17:44):
I mean, it's throughout your life. There's critical
decision points, decisions thatyou make or other people make
for you that change the courseof your life. And that was
definitely one of
Nick (17:55):
my question is because I was already out, right? I was
gone. So you were in the school,the church had to school, the
Sister (18:02):
church and the school to go to public school because they
didn't offer junior and senior.
So
Nick (18:08):
that's what it was. So you didn't I was in eighth grade. I
was
Sister (18:13):
gone. Yeah. So I'm in this small church, six kids in
my class. So many years. I know.
And then yeah, so they stoppedoffering for whatever reason,
they probably didn't have peoplesmart enough
Nick (18:24):
to teach those classes.
Either smarter. Did
Nancy (18:27):
you say that? Louder? No, no.
Sister (18:28):
So I went from six seven kids in my class for several
years to high school poli HighSchool of 3000. Kids. Yeah.
Nick (18:36):
I'm just gonna say something here real quick. When
you said that about theteachers. I'm sorry. I don't
mean to go off subject. 3000Kids, let's remember. Yeah, I
right now would fuckingchallenge any of those people,
any of those adults? Who has theballs to actually get on this
podcasts with us? I want to knowtheir point of view here.
(18:58):
Definitely. Like I want to knowtheir story. This isn't a place
of judgment. I'm not here tojudge. I personally, I don't
know where you stand on this.
Honestly. We've never reallytalked about it. I've personally
forgiven I don't give a fuckyeah, there's a couple people
that I would probably throwpunch. I would say there's a
couple of people I'm not gonna,
Nancy (19:14):
well, we don't invite those here then. I'm just long
distance. Maybe.
Sister (19:19):
bygones be bygones?
We've been out of it long. Wewere in all that good stuff.
Nick (19:25):
Our lives are awesome.
Yeah, we have great fuckinglives. So I'm not worried about
that. But I just would love toget the perspective. And the
insight as to one of thoseadults going through this to
come onto this podcast. Yeah.
And actually bear their fuckingsoul. Because you want to talk
about healing. But anyway, goahead. 3000 students, you go in
Sister (19:48):
Yeah, obviously culture shock. I soaked up the academics
socially, obviously, a hot mess.
I couldn't go to my lockerbecause people would talk to me
so I would carry my bags around.
I wear skirts. Every day therewas a 13 minute homeroom that I
would just grit my teeth andeveryone would guys would make
fun of me and all you know whatI mean? So all the social
(20:08):
socially I was Iraq but in thepicture here arrived.
Nick (20:12):
We're talking about the way you dress is exactly. And I
think I said this before in thevery first episode. It's almost
like Amish. Nearly you know whatI mean? Like,
Unknown (20:22):
yeah, nice miniskirts?
Yeah. Because the girls had towear at least a three quarter
sleeve and below, below theknee. We were wearing leg
warmers because it's the onlything trendy we fashionable and
we remember the closest
Nick (20:35):
thing to a bit of luck and
Sister (20:37):
they look different every single day not like just
once in a while looked weird. SoI had zero social skills to deal
with my peers. That's thefucking truth. Well, you got out
a little earlier and that wayyou were around well, even
though relation before us. Yeah,
Nick (20:54):
this is about you. But even when I went to school, I
had no fucking clue. Like,seriously, there's this black
dude, we didn't know. Seriously,how did we grow up? It was all
white fucking people. There wereno they were prejudiced. Of
course, but I mean, let's justsay what it is. But but when I
went to school, and I saw thisdude, I honestly was like, to
him big dude. His name wasUlysses. I'll never forget it.
(21:16):
And I said to him, I says, Man,you just out of sheer
observation. So man, you gotsome big lips. Seriously, I was
a fucking kid that grew up andabout altered and fucking, I had
no clue. And that motherfuckerpunched me in the washer right
smack in my fucking mouth.
That's why
Sister (21:36):
whenever anybody talks about and I know homeschooling
or whatever, all this stuff,there's so much as changed. And
ours was very different becauseit was a cult. But anytime
there's Let's separate ourselvesfrom the outside world to
protect us. And this is good forit's not good for you. You need
to be out in the world.
Nick (21:52):
You need to fail your you need to social skills, the good
and the bad.
Sister (21:55):
Yeah. 100% need to be out in the world. Yeah, it's
trying to shelter your kids fromharm. And by putting them in
these really small littlebubbles. It doesn't serve you
later,
Nick (22:04):
this motherfucker punched me in the face. And you know
what he said to me? Now you knowhow it feels? To have some big
motherfucking lips? That'sactually he did. Yeah. And I was
like, Okay, I'll never say that,again, is beyond his years. I
learned a lot of lessons in thatone.
Nancy (22:19):
You learn it pretty quick.
Sister (22:21):
Well, that was that was the theme because I laughed at
what like 17 is when the churchbroke up, and I immediately left
home. And that was on my ownfrom 17 and beyond. And from 17
to however old I am right now,I'm still Arrested Development,
you had to figure it out on yourown. And it's not like we had
friends in the generalpopulation, we can be like, how
(22:43):
am I supposed to navigate? Well,
Nancy (22:44):
your friends were in the same church.
Nick (22:47):
Or if you did what we were nobody really understands what
you went through. So it didn'tmatter. Because they couldn't
even give you advice based offof experience. Yeah, especially
they could maybe give you somebasic fucking point in
Sister (23:01):
time when you're alive.
And you start like noticing theopposite sex or whoever you're
attracted to then 12 You knowwhat I mean? All of those. We
didn't know any milestones thatyou get. We skipped all of those
at the right age. And then weit's like getting thrown and
Nancy (23:15):
thrown into the deep end.
And we talked to like your mom.
It's like, that fear that youalways had you were going to
hell so
Nick (23:23):
you're out. Yeah. And the church breaks up. Yeah, so that
wasn't like purposeful thinglike you left a backflip the
church actually fucking broke upthat for so sure will be
discussed. We will I'm sure whenI got kicked out at 13. Dude, it
was like I was a totallydifferent person. But I had so
much anger and animosity andquestions and pain and fear and
(23:48):
all that shit that I had tofigure out on top of being 13
years old on top of learninglife like the world I didn't
even know you were 17 You wentthrough a little bit more right?
Other than 13 which in theseyears doesn't matter, because
you were still sheltered. It'sthe same bullshit. What happens
though, after that,
Sister (24:08):
so my focus so fucking crazy after that was I mean, I
obviously didn't go to college,some of our peers join the armed
forces because it was like, theydon't know what to do. So let's
just go do that or so I got ajob. Thankfully, my sister was
already out in the real worldand got me a job. So that was
great. So I knew I needed a joband somewhere to live. And then
(24:31):
yeah, it was, I did go off therails, all the things that you
would do in your teens, I wasdoing in my late teens, early
20s. I probably went off therails easily. Doing everything,
everything, just smoking, thewearing of the pants,
Nancy (24:48):
so to make up to
Sister (24:51):
because I didn't know how to that was. That's an art
form. I never learned it. Istill have it.
Nick (24:57):
But I think it's so funny is that we're talking Talking
about you went crazy. And we'retalking smoking. And we're
talking wearing pants. Do itthis is you are so crazy oodles
of television. Off to me like Istill laugh. We laugh because
this is years past and we wentthrough it and we're much better
(25:18):
people. But two that is fuckedup. We're talking about bad
things. And we're talking aboutwearing pants and letting your
hair down and,
Sister (25:27):
and obviously drinking and drugs, you know, only
because I didn't want to die. Ithink I was around heavy drugs,
but I just never wanted to tryit like drugs. Bring it? Yeah,
alcohol. Too much. Yeah, butyeah, and all the bad decisions
you make when you're doing thosekinds of things, combined with
(25:49):
the fact that you don't know howto handle your health. So
socially. So it's a really badcombo. But on top of being
depressed, yes. And to yourpoint where you're angry, and
you're lashing out and all thisstuff. Depression is as they
say, anger turned inwards. Soyou were letting your anger out.
Yeah. All this time, I'mdistracted by all the things I
(26:12):
was doing. I'm depressed. Sothat doesn't finally manifest
itself as I need help. Until Iwas in my 20s. When I lived in
Virginia, I had what theycalled, you know, a psychotic
break. And the whole my wholeworld fell apart. That's when I
started getting treatment andwas on that I was seeing both
(26:33):
kinds of doctors and takingantidepressants for many years
before I finally got myself backtogether. But thankfully, I was
able to maintain a job andeverything. But yeah, the
depression was definitelythrough line throughout all of
that. And then
Nancy (26:47):
you left here, you left the people you knew, and were
close to yeah, all your life,because you wish we were still
hanging around with all thosepeople. I mean, I know our house
became a party house, andeveryone would just come over.
You decided, like what made youthink that I think that was like
my biggest Soviet besides otheryou know, I get it. But what
(27:09):
made you decide, I need to goback to college.
Sister (27:11):
So there was a couple things. And there's a couple of
adults that were really pivotalin my life and making that
decision. So again, I told you,my sister helped me get a real
job in the city, which wasgreat. If you can type, he can
get a job back then. So I was asecretary at an ad agency and my
boss, Ernie Brown, who I mayhave passed by now. But he was
an amazing person and reallygave me he was like my mentor.
(27:35):
So I'm working at this company,and I hit my salary cap. Oh,
even better. That's Yes, you canonly make so much money as a
secretary.
Nick (27:44):
I mean, you could have done other things to make a
little more
Nancy (27:50):
that I could attack. She just got out of church for
crying. And
Sister (27:53):
then my mom's my mom, what's
Nick (27:55):
the fuck she was rather
Sister (27:56):
who was always there for us? My uncle, Oh, wow. Has
throughout his life. Even thoughhe lived on a different coast,
he would come in, it was hissister, we were his nieces and
nephews. So he would come in andsort of always come in and clean
up the messes domestically, buyfood or do whatever to take care
(28:16):
of us when he was in town. Andhe had the foresight to say,
look, you're at a point in yourlife. It's a decision time, if
you want to go to college now asan adult, I was 25, I will help
you do that. Oh, wow. So it wasthat combination of and I will
never, I'm always indebted tothose two people, one for
(28:36):
earning being such a mentor. Andwhen I quit, he said, If you
quit for any other reason, Iwouldn't let you do it. But
that's a great thing to do. Andmy uncle just for having the
foresight of saying I'm going tohelp you be successful. He
helped me pay off my debts. Andwhat got me started, he wasn't
envisioning that I would leavethe state of Illinois when I
made that. But I really was justready for a fresh start. And I
(29:00):
had a friend who lived inPennsylvania, and I'm like, why
not gonna do this? I might aswell go back. And it was really
because I knew our mutual friendin Pennsylvania and Penn State
was a good school. And I'm like,This sounds all sounds really
cool. Now that I can see beyondjust my little job in this
little right thing. Yeah, theyhelped open that up for me.
(29:22):
That's all so
Nick (29:23):
you, you wind up going to college, you wind up going back
there and you wind up gettingout of college? Yes. And you
wind up staying there for awhile to actually work because I
Sister (29:32):
basically got recruited out at school to the current
company that I am. So wow, thatwas sort of like another piece
of the puzzle where if I hadgotten out of college, and it's
so tough now to find a job, butat that time in that industry,
they recruited you onto yourcampus. It was a 45 minute
(29:52):
interview, and I got an offerletter in the mail. And I'm
like, All right, that seems likethe right thing to do. Yeah.
Nick (29:59):
So I just think it's Awesome because this, this goes
to the point that we talk about,we just don't realize what we go
through in our lives, like wereally don't like we just do it,
we just go through in here youare going through the same
situation that I did, I'll be ata different perspective, but it
was the same thing. You get out,you're 17, you still don't know
(30:21):
what life is about. You don'tknow how to handle yourself, you
go crazy for like seven or eightyears, you just easily you
decide to get out of that youget help getting out of that,
which is awesome, which is sofucking key. Somebody helping
out. Nobody had to do that.
Sister (30:37):
Well, that's one of the things too is we didn't have a
support other than each other asfriend. We had no supports. And
I can't say dad was there andall these pitiful people in my
life. But on a day to day basis.
No, you guys didn't have any.
Like now I call Google my mom,because everything I need to
know.
Nick (30:54):
But when we're growing up, we don't even look to our house.
When we're growing up, we don'teven look as our parents as a
support system. Right? They'rejust your parents right? Now as
adults, we realized that thatwas some sort of a support
system. Right. But I think goingthrough all of this, we don't
realize and then just the factthat there is a company, which
(31:15):
is a major company that youstill work for today, like one
of the largest companies inAmerica. Yes. They come to your
school, little you. You knowwhat I'm saying? Don't have a
clue where you came from. Don'tknow where your minds at none of
that. And they give you achance, but you busted your ass
to get to them. Oh, this wasn'tsomething like that. Just Oh,
(31:38):
somebody just handed over yourass. That's the point here.
Sister (31:42):
Yeah. When I was in college, I had one major thing
going for me, which is this hasto work or I fail. And I have no
no fallback. Because that's onething. And the other thing that
now I'm I'm not, I am a smartperson. But the level of
education we had, especially inmath was a huge Crippler.
Nick (32:05):
But this is why did but no, this is my point. This is
why this is such a big fuckingdeal. Yes.
Sister (32:10):
Huge. Yeah. And I paid Yeah. And I paid me. So now I'll
give myself props.
Nancy (32:16):
That's it right there.
It's like we go through it. Andwe don't realize all the shit we
tell you right now you as mydrink.
Nick (32:26):
You have to fucking see that's the thing we never give
ourselves. We don't loveourselves enough. And I'm not
trying to get deep here. But I'msaying we don't. We don't care
or love ourselves enough to giveourselves credit for the fucking
shit that we went through forwhat we had to endure as kids.
We're talking kids
Sister (32:47):
that sets the baseline for your for your whole life.
Live your whole life.
Nick (32:51):
Yeah, get out and do what you do. And with that beginning,
you're still fucking who you aretoday. Yeah. Which is
unbelievable. And, and anybodywho is in your life should be
fucking grateful. Yeah, and Imean,
Nancy (33:06):
I am I am grateful. I'm saying no, I think yeah, to
Nick (33:11):
be able to be in the presence. And this is why people
don't know we go through it.
We're not going out here doingand I know, it takes a lot of
courage to come on here and dothis. Because you're putting
yourself out there. You'reYou're becoming vulnerable. I
hate those fucking wordsvulnerable trigger trauma, all
the fucking new woke fuckingslang. But the bottom line is
it's true. You're puttingyourself out there. Nancy talked
(33:31):
about this on one of thepodcasts where you're like, I
don't really want people to knowsome of this stuff. But it's
like, the fuck is going on? Whatare they going to do to you? And
I'm not saying we need to saynames and all that. I'm just
saying that we need to giveourselves credit for the fucking
bullshit for the absolute abusethat we went through.
Sister (33:51):
Yeah, we were we were Yeah, at risk coming out the
door, as they say now, but yeah,you have to dig deep and find
your own grit. When you look upand realize there's really
nobody around you on a day today basis. Again, I want to
minimize all the support I gotfrom the people in my life that
really gave me so much. But atthe end of the day, it's you.
(34:14):
And if you don't do it, it's notgoing to happen. Yeah. Yeah.
That's reality of it. Versus andof course, we're not the worst
case. And we're not the bestcase. But that was my my
motivation throughout all ofthat was I've got to get myself
well because if I'm likefreaking out then I'm on the
(34:35):
street. So I have to pulltogether.
Nick (34:37):
You lived in your car.
Yeah, I remember it. Yeah. Imean, I remember it before you
lived in your car friendscouches and couches and whatever
it takes whatever it took,
Nancy (34:49):
and that's it right there. It's whatever took you
actually go through it. YouYeah, it's awesome.
Nick (34:55):
So you get out of college, you're banging it. You're doing
your thing. You're you're movingalong and All throughout the
years, you're still doing it.
One of the things that we alwayswere like, Yeah, but when is she
going to fucking get married?
Because dude for a while there,so you went through your thing,
right? And I understand youweren't ready to commit to
(35:15):
something, which was anotherthing. Do you think that part of
that was because you might havehad commitment issues or love
issues or something? Because itdid take a little bit? I mean,
yeah,
Sister (35:24):
no, it definitely took a long time. I think it was two
probably two major factors. Oneis, when I got out of school, it
was all about the grind and thework. I was literally a shell of
myself at a house here I wasworking from you are working 8am
to midnight, one in the morning,I was surrounded by people who
(35:46):
were in the same boat, like allof us were out of college.
Granted, they were five yearsyounger, what have you, but it
was all about the work combinedwith the fact that I still
didn't really know how to
Nancy (35:58):
date people or social aspect was the social aspect of
it.
Sister (36:03):
Like I still had while I was having my time when I was
trying to learn things. I wasn'tdoing it right. So trying to
have a healthy, strongrelationship with a good person,
no clue how to do any of that. Ididn't come out of my work mode.
Until I was settled in my job.
I'm like, alright, and I lookedup and I'm 30 something years
(36:24):
old. I'm like, Oh, wait, I'msingle. But we talked a lot
about it at the time. I didn'tmeet my current my first husband
as I like to call it my husbanduntil I was what 39 Yeah, he
Nick (36:38):
was he's, he was a catch.
He is a cat. She is
Sister (36:42):
tall. So no, but yeah, I had a real Izzy I looked up and
is a woman that's really, reallylate. I know. It's common in a
lot of places. But yeah, thenthen that became my job like,
Alright, I've got my work thingssorted out,
Nick (36:55):
even though we've been friends this whole time, our
whole lives. And even thoughwe're around the same age, yep.
Your son is the same age as ourgranddaughter. Yes. So that's.
So that's, there's nothing wrongwith that. I just, it just goes
to show again,
Nancy (37:13):
it happened. People know, we
Nick (37:15):
can't have it. Yeah,
Sister (37:16):
I mean, and I think as far as us, you and I and Nancy,
throughout all of that beingliving across states, we did
maintain our friendship. And Iam really so grateful. Because
not everybody has those kind ofroots. In friendship, we're
saying that where you can stayfriends, no matter where you
(37:37):
are, geographically, you havesuch strong roots, that you're
always going to reconnect orstay connected, and still to
Nick (37:45):
this day, and even with your sister and her kids. And
now they have kids. It's crazy.
So it's awesome. It'sunimaginable to some people,
especially going through what wewent through. And so I think
that that's pretty awesome. No,it is. So maybe we'll get
together at some point in thefuture
Nancy (38:07):
just having a conversation here.
Nick (38:09):
Which is so fucking No, we
Nancy (38:10):
really appreciate it.
Nick (38:12):
Ya know,
Unknown (38:13):
what's awesome for you
Nick (38:15):
to also, I don't know, I just for us, like just talking
about this shit. Just released.
It feels just free just to justeven let it go even more. You
know what I'm saying? And I knowwe're old and I know it's been a
while but you just put it outthere and the fucking Universe
picks it up and does whatever itwants with it and people can do
whatever they want with it. AndI think we'll get together later
time. Yeah, at a later time andthanks
Sister (38:39):
for being so fucking authentic.
Nancy (38:43):
Thank you.
Nick (38:45):
I cool. So I hope everybody enjoyed you guys
listen on to the next episodebecause we're going to just keep
going with this story. Adios
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!