June 1, 2025 • 29 mins
What happens when we wake up in midlife and realize we've become someone we never intended to be? Award-winning playwright and filmmaker Brooke Berman joins us to explore this profound question through the lens of her debut feature film, "Ramona at Midlife," which recently premiered at Geena Davis' Bentonville Film Festival.
Brooke shares her remarkable journey from acclaimed playwright to first-time film director at 52—a rare achievement in an industry where first-time directors are typically men under 35. Her candid reflections on creating an authentic female leadership style reveal the delicate balance between collaboration and direction on set, shooting an entire feature in just 15 days.
The conversation takes unexpected turns as we discuss the liberation that comes with midlife awakening. When we were 25 and imagined our future selves at 50, most of us pictured someone who had "done the heavy lifting" and was essentially coasting. Reality proves far more dynamic and challenging, but also more rewarding than we ever anticipated.
Most powerful is Brooke's insight about self-acceptance: "If I don't love the person I am right now in my imperfect skin, then what are we talking about?" This revelation, alongside her disciplined approach to self-care through morning rituals of meditation, yoga, and gratitude practices, offers a blueprint for thriving in our fifth decade.
Whether you're approaching midlife, navigating its complexities, or looking back on it, Brooke's story will inspire you to embrace your authentic self and recognize that evolution doesn't end at 50—it often accelerates in the most beautiful, unexpected ways.
Connect with Brooke. Listen now, and then watch "Ramona at Midlife" on Apple TV, Amazon Prime, or Fandango at Home to continue the conversation about reinvention and self-discovery.
Ready to FEARLESSLY FACE all the F WORDS – be inspired and encouraged?
Get a copy of Amy’s Best selling book: CANNONBALL! FEARLESSLY Facing Midlife and Beyond here
Fearlessly Facing Fifty and Beyond has over 200 episodes with inspiration and stories to age fearlessly and connect confidently to others thriving at midlife and beyond.
Make sure to share with friends and family and would love if you could leave a review. There are so many shows out there floating around and if you are finding value in the Fearlessly Facing Fifty podcast share it with the world – a review means so much.
And don’t forget to follow along on all the socials:
http://instagram.com/theamy.schmidt
https://www.instagram.com/fearlesslyfacingfifty_fwords/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, fearless Friends , it's Amy Schmidt, and today's
F Word is going to be how wefearlessly face our 50s yeah,
our 50s.
You know what?
Today's guest is incredible.
I just watched her movie lastnight it was a premiere night,
actually and I watched it onApple TV and I'm not there and I
(00:20):
actually, in my phone, wrotedown several things that we're
going to discuss during thisepisode.
A few little notes, but today Ihave on the show Brooke Burman.
She's an award-winningplaywright, filmmaker and
memoirist.
She wrote and directed LeBronat Midlife, which recently
premiered at Geena Davis'esteemed Bentonville Film
Festival.
Her plays have been seen acrossthe country and internationally
(00:41):
.
She's the author of threenonfiction books, including the
Memoir the Place Like Home,published by Random House.
Brooke Berman, I am so excitedto have you on the show today.
Well, hey, fearless friends,like I said in the intro, this
is going to be an awesomeepisode, and you know what?
(01:03):
My guest, brooke Berman.
Welcome, brooke, thank you knowwhat.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
My guest Brooke Berman.
Welcome, Brooke, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I'm so excited You're sitting in your son's room,
which I just am calling out,because I just think that's
awesome.
Thank you so much why not.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I always tell people so that they know the anime
books aren't mine and they knowthe samurai sword isn't mine,
Isn't yours.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Keeping it real.
Keeping it real.
I love this.
So I have to just set the stageby saying I watched Ramona at
midlife last night.
I want to go back to this filmand I have to actually take my
phone out because I have to readsomething, and I didn't tell
Brooke about this before.
This is one of the quotes fromthe movie last night.
People in midlife wake up andthey realize they have become
(01:46):
someone they haven't intended.
I loved that.
I wrote it down.
My husband was watching themovie with me.
I know it gave me goosebumpsbecause it's so true.
I mean, is there really likethis midlife awakening?
That's like wow, who am I now?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Well, look, I'm not an expert on midlife.
I mean, I wrote a fictionalstory about fictional characters
and I put words in their mouth,so I can only speak from my
experience.
But while I was writing themovie, I got really, really
interested.
I had a couple of projects Iwas writing around the same time
and each of the three of themhinged around the idea of who we
(02:30):
, when we were 25 and we lookedinto the future, who we imagined
we'd become, and aconfrontation between that
imaginary self and the person weactually became.
Right, because you're nevergoing to, you're never going to
intuit it exactly the right way.
It's always going to be alittle different than you
imagine.
So in this kind of midlifereckoning, there are the girls
(02:53):
that we were at 25.
And then there's the fantasy ofwhat it would be like to be 50.
I mean, I imagined that 50 yearolds were, I mean, not done but
settled.
I imagine that 50-year-olds hadreally done the heavy lifting
of their lives, had become thepeople they needed to become and
were, you know, basicallycoasting till death.
(03:14):
And that in fact, is not true,and I don't know if it's
particular to our generationthat it's no longer true because
the structures have upended, orif it was always not true.
I mean my grandma certainly,who's one of my role models.
She had a whole second life inher fifties and then a third
life in her seventies.
(03:34):
Did she really, oh?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
okay, that's amazing.
That's amazing yeah she did.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
She went, she was a stay at home mom, uh, when her
kids were little.
She was a stay-at-home mom whenher kids were little and then,
after my mom got married, shewent back to work as a real
estate agent and she had a wholelife then and then after her
husband died in her seventies,she actually then had a whole
other chapter and sherecommitted to selling houses.
(04:01):
She sold houses in Detroit butmoved into an apartment and had
a community and she worked untilshe was 95.
Did she?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
really that's awesome .
That's awesome.
I mean, it is reallyinteresting.
I think there's so much that we, we these layers that we just
peel back in our fifties.
You know, you, you kind ofrediscover and and and uncover
things about yourself you didn'trealize.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I certainly know I did.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I mean, I don't know about you, but I really feel
there is that awakening.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Absolutely.
And look, I didn't become a momuntil later.
So we're the same age and yourson is a grown-up in London and
my son's a 14-year-old, in hisfreshman year of high school,
and I'm getting texts all day,you know, can he get off his
phone please?
The teachers are like pleasetell him to get off his phone,
because I didn't have a childtill I was 41.
(04:53):
So I spent my 40s sitting onplaygrounds.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, isn't that crazy, I mean.
And so many women did, so manywomen did.
When we talk about Gen Xers,you know, I think about we kind
of were that generation of wecan do it all right.
I mean, we were kind of theworld is like.
We were kind of, I think, kindof sold that bill of goods of.
Was it private school or publicschool?
(05:18):
Was it a stay-at-home mom ordid you work, was it?
You know all of that.
We kind of had those choices,but we felt like we the baby
boomers gave that to us.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I mean, I think we inherited that from our mother's
generation.
I don't think we made that up.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
You think we did?
Yeah, that's probably true.
That's probably true.
There was this feeling of likewe could do it all and we were
really striving to do it all.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I mean, I think so I can only speak for myself and
all I ever wanted was to be atheater artist.
So I moved to New York when Iwas 18 and I built a career in
the theater and, honestly, Iwasn't thinking about having it
all.
I just was doing things in theorder they came.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Have you always been like if I was to sit down with
your mom and if your grandma wasstill alive?
And I ask them you know, hey,was Brooke always super creative
?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, I come from a creative family.
My mom was a concert pianist,my grandma had wanted to be a
singer but then gave it up tohave kids, and my mom gave up
her piano to have me.
My mom's sister is a painter.
Like my cousins are musicians.
I sort of come from that.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
You do, I love that, I love that, so you've always
had that.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
That's just, that's in your genes.
I always ask people like whenwas it for you when your passion
and purpose really intersected?
Oh, that is such an excellent,excellent question.
I mean, honestly, I went Ithink it was in my thirties.
I went to graduate school at 28.
So I was in grad school from 28to 30.
And I think that was when mypassion and my purpose collided
(06:52):
and it was when I committed tobeing a playwright, because up
until then I had been aperformer and I had written and
I had produced and my hands werein a lot of different creative
baskets.
My hands were in a lot ofdifferent creative baskets.
And then I had this opportunityto go to Juilliard and study
with Marcia Norman, and it'sreally where I got my ducks in a
row and committed to one thingwhich was playwriting, and
(07:17):
really set about learning thatcraft, and I think it was in
those years.
And then I had a bunch of playsthat were produced and then
that led to films and I'd alwayswanted to make a film, but I
didn't know how.
It seemed super overwhelmingand like there was this whole
technical side and um is itcompletely different?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Is it completely different?
So for someone listening orwatching, walk, walk us through
that.
Like it's just completelydifferent how you write it, how
you create it.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
All of the above, all of it's completely different.
Playwrights kind of dream upthe play and then we have lots
and lots of time in rehearsalwith actors.
We workshop the play, we go tothese little development
colonies there's a lot of timewhere the play is this protected
thing between artists and we'remaking it better and making it
(08:08):
better, and making it better,and then we bring it to market.
So you hear these stories aboutLin-Manuel, miranda and Hamilton
, for example, and he had theidea when he was an undergrad at
Wesleyan and then he waswriting and then they would do
these workshops and then it'svery far down the line where
they start to bring in thebusiness people and figure out
(08:28):
how to market it and how to sellit and how to bring it to
audiences and all of that.
Film is the opposite.
So generally in film you pitchan idea, you get hired to write
that idea, you attach, castpretty early you, you attach,
you bring in the writer and thedirector and you're always, even
from the inception, selling andfilm has to get made in a very
(08:53):
specific number of days becauseyou're paying people by the day.
So you have to have a rocksolid plan.
There's not a lot of room forlike figuring it out and
figuring it out.
It's my favorite part.
You know the collaboration,yeah.
Oh yeah, as a, as a creative,it's very.
Yeah, film is very, very, verypractical.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, oh, interesting .
So I want you to take me tothat moment of um the premiere
at Gina Davis's esteemedBentonville film festival.
I mean, that's huge.
And I want you to walk methrough this because I feel as
though a lot of times in our 50sand beyond, our inner critic is
very noisy and our innercheerleader is muted, like we
(09:35):
are just.
And I have to be honest withyou, I do a lot of media and
there's a lot of times when Ihave to go back and watch it or
I see the segment and I'm like,oh, are they going to get me
from that right angle?
Are they going to get me fromthis?
Am I going to look 10 poundsheavier?
That inner critic, even thoughI know my message is really good
, I still fight that to this day.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Oh Amy, I feel that way every day.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I feel that way every day.
Okay, then we're soul sisters.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Of course I do.
I feel that way right now.
I didn't know we were going tobe on camera.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
I know you did and I'm like, oh, no stress, no, you
look beautiful, but that innercritic is so loud.
So take me to that premiereSure, Walk me through that.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I mean I always wish I were taller.
I always wish I were fivepounds lighter.
I always wish I were a littleblonder.
I always like rethink my choiceto not Botox, like I don't do
that.
But then I think like, oh, geez, maybe I should like.
Really, brooke, you know, Ithink that's really human.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
It is human, it is human, so true, so true.
I know I got on the scale and Iwas measured the other day at
my physical and I'm like, oh,please still be five, four still
.
You know, I'm like, please, Iwas so that was good, but what?
Were you feeling as like I mean, the curtains probably didn't
open, but for our viewers andlisteners let's just say the
(10:52):
curtains opened and this filmstarts.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And you're sitting there.
What are you looking at?
Are you watching?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
it, or are you looking at people's reactions?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Well, by the time, we had our world premiere.
So you're talking about ourworld premiere on the festival
circuit, which was at GinaDavis's Bentonville Film
Festival in June of 2023.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Wait a minute, just say that again.
I mean you said that like, ohyeah, it was just a Gina Davis's
film, you got to like own thatgirl.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
All right, All right, we had our world premiere at
Gina Davis's Bentonville FilmFestival.
Gina herself introduced thefilm, so that was thrilling.
I got to meet her, which wasthrilling, yeah, and it was
really exciting.
But I think you have tounderstand, as a middle-aged mom
(11:43):
, I'm always caretaking.
You know people keep asking meare you enjoying this?
And I think, well, I don't know.
Am I?
Because in my brain I'm workingthrough the logistics of
everybody else's experience.
Does that person have what theyneed?
Did catering show up on time?
That sound cue feels off to me.
How does the actress feel rightnow?
(12:04):
Is somebody taking care of her?
What are we doing after this?
Did somebody set up the afterparty?
What's going on with that billthat I know I need to pay?
How are we getting to?
I'm a mom, so I'm always mommingmy way through it.
I don't know what enjoying itmeans at this exact moment, but
(12:26):
there are moments when it reallyhits me and the most exciting
thing, honestly, is when peoplesee the film and want to come
talk about it with me.
Or the most thrilling thing onthe festival circuit is that
people really feel seen by thismovie and there's a sector, not
just women, but also somestay-at-home dads who come up to
(12:46):
me afterwards and say that wasmy journey.
I had that experience.
That's how I feel and that'swhat matters to me.
You know that we're reallyconnecting with audiences
Because, look, there are allthese movies about middle-aged
women on the marketplace rightnow, but very few of us are like
injecting toxic substance orhaving the kink relationship or,
(13:07):
you know, in the case of thatDelightful in Halfway movie,
dating a rock star, you knowmost of us are Ramona.
Most of us are just figuring outhow to make room for ourselves
on a small human scale.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah, yeah.
How do you go about casting?
How do you find that she wasfabulous?
She was fabulous and sobeautiful, isn't she great, oh,
I know so beautiful andrelatable.
Like honestly relatable, justlike okay, yeah, I get this,
like wow.
My shoulders dropped a coupletimes during the film because I
was like whew, just deep breath.
Like wow, I get this, I feelthis.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Oh, I'm doing my job.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, they did, they did, they really did.
I had to stop it a couple oftimes because my husband was
like oh, amy, and I was typingin my notes because I knew we
had this interview and I'm likeI got to write that down because
it's so good, it really wasgood, but how do you go about
filling those spots?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
You've written this you kind of have an idea in your
mind of who you want to cast.
Well, I actually wrote it forthat actress you did.
So, that actress that you'retalking about.
I wrote the movie for her and Ideveloped the movie with the
actors who are actually in it,which is a rare luxury in the
conventional Hollywood system.
Before this movie, I'd been indevelopment with another movie.
(14:24):
For I'm going to tell you eightyears Wow, eight years.
Because in the conventionalHollywood model, what you do is
you get a movie star and then,based on the movie star or at
this point it's really likethree or four movie stars then
you can go get your fundingBecause you can say to a
financier I have thisextraordinary movie star that
(14:46):
everybody wants to go see, andso you know you'll make your
money back.
And that was exactly how myother project that was the hill,
my last project died on,because we spent two years
making offers to extraordinaryactresses who were probably
never going to say yes to asmall scale movie, and we
couldn't get our million dollarbudget without one of those
(15:07):
names.
So we just the movie didn't getmade.
And when I turned 50 and thepandemic happened five seconds
later, I just felt like I didn'thave time to waste anymore.
I had played by the rules, Ihad done what everyone told me
to do.
I had followed every knowncoordinate about how to make my
(15:30):
first movie and when that wasn'tworking, I took matters in my
own hands and I did it my ownway.
And if I'm going to do it myown way, then I'm going to cast
who I want.
I'm going to cast people.
I trust I'm going to castpeople I've worked with before.
I'm going to cast theateractors.
I'm going to cast people who wecan get on set and make stuff
(15:50):
up together and I trust theirinstincts, you know fully.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Oh well, you hit it out of the ballpark.
They were all phenomenal,Really were.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Really were they all great.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
I love them so much.
I want to talk a little bitabout something that comes up
often, especially at this stageof our life women of a certain
age, I guess and that questionof help.
I've had certain circumstancesin my life.
I took a hiatus from thepodcast for a bit because of
some health things in our familyand it was a time actually
(16:21):
Brooke and I talk about this insome other episodes where I
actually needed to ask for help,like I really needed help.
And in my 30s, in my 20s, whenI'm like you know, I'm a
broadcaster, I'm a journalist,I'm doing all of this and I
wanted to get there the fastestI could you know further,
fastest and I do it by myself,like I can control it all.
(16:42):
I can do it better if I do itby myself.
And then in my 50s, a bunch ofthings hit and it was like loss
of parents, moving back frombeing in Germany for six years,
all of these different things,and I was like man, if I
actually use my resources and Iactually put out there, hey, I
need some help, you just grow inso many ways.
Have you found that, or are youstill kind of like I got to do
(17:04):
it myself.
You found that Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
No, absolutely.
And I'm smiling while you'resaying that because I don't know
if you remember, but that's inthe movie.
There's a moment when Ramona'sex says will you be okay?
And she goes I'm always okay.
Yes, because that, in fact, isthat hyper control I can do it
all.
I have to do it all.
I have to do it all.
I can't accept help, I'm alwaysokay.
(17:28):
It becomes armor, right?
Yes, yes, I had to accept help.
So much on this movie.
I was a woman in her 50s who hadnever made a feature before, so
there was a ton of stuff Ididn't know how to do.
In my 40s I changed lanes fromprimarily being a writer to
being a writer director, andthat was huge.
(17:50):
I went to work.
I got a job teachingscreenwriting at NYU Grad Film
and while I was teaching mystudents to write, I was
learning visual logic from them.
I was really.
I used that job as my secondgraduate school.
I went to every meeting.
I went to every meeting.
I went to faculty meetings, Iwent to guest speakers.
(18:12):
I went to, you know, programsin the evening so that I could
learn what the students werelearning and I could learn to
think with a camera, which wasreally new for me.
And then I needed help figuringout how to make a budget.
I'd never really made a budgetfor a film before I needed help.
I had one of my good goodfriends is a filmmaker who's
(18:35):
more established than me and hetalked me through every scene of
my movie.
I just asked him.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I asked him to mentor me, and he did.
I love that M word mentor, it'shuge.
It's huge, yeah, wow.
I love to hear that because Ithink so often, so many of us
get stuck saying I can just doit myself.
There's also this factor of ourstage of life where the two Ps,
the evil twins, I call themperfectionism, procrastination.
(19:02):
Oh, I'm going to wait till thetiming's right to do this.
So I'm just just gonna wait alittle longer.
Or I'm just gonna wait tillI've lost this 10 pounds or this
five pounds.
You mentioned it earlier in theconversation.
You know I'm just gonna wait.
I'd be waiting forever, butthat that happens so often, you
can't wait, yeah, you can't wait.
So at 52 you wrote your firstfilm, right 52 well, no, no, I
(19:25):
had written other films before.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
I had written many films before but I hadn't gone
into production and made one.
I sold my.
I wrote my first film 20 yearsago.
I sold a uh, I did anadaptation of one of my plays
for a movie star and I sold itto Hollywood.
And then I moved to LA and Iwrote movies for a living for a
couple of years and while themovies weren't getting made, for
(19:50):
various reasons, I was indevelopment with a different one
and my development executivesaid well, do you want to direct
this?
Because if you direct it, Iknow how to set it up.
And back in 2007, 2008, I waslike, no, I don't want to direct
it.
But a couple of years later Ithought, well, actually, maybe I
do, because the director is theperson that has the will and
(20:14):
the ability to move the thing,to move the needle forward.
The writer in Hollywood has nopower.
And I understood how the storyneeded to be embodied and what
it felt like, and I understoodhow to put the elements together
, even if I didn't alwaysunderstand what it felt like.
And I understood how to put theelements together, even if I
didn't always understand what itlooked like.
So this was the first movie Imade, but it was not the first
movie I wrote.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Okay, perfect.
Thank you for clarifying that.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
But still 52.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I mean crazy.
So I want you to take me to amoment.
I mean they talk about yeah, goahead, no, go ahead.
Finish please.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Oh, I was just going to say.
They talk about first-timedirectors all the time, but
they're rarely women in their50s, right?
First you think about afirst-time director, and there
are all sorts of festivals forfirst-time directors.
They're usually men between 25and 35.
Wow, every now and then there'sa girl in there, but nobody's
over the age of 35 ever.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Amazing, amazing.
I want you to take me to amoment that's really been a
challenge for you.
That's really challenged you,whether it's personally or
professionally.
I mean you've got a 14-year-old.
Right now You're in like thethroes of like getting their
temps, their license or wearingdeodorant every day, making sure
they do so their room isn'tstinky.
You know, I mean I'm just alittle beyond that.
(21:24):
Mine are grown and flown, butyou know you've got so many
things you're managing as a momand a wife and, you know, an
executive producer.
I mean just amazing.
I want you to, for thelisteners and people watching,
take me to a moment that reallychallenged you, where you were
like man, I could pull thecovers back over my head right
now and not get out of bed today.
(21:45):
Did you have any moments likethat, and how you've persevered.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Oh, my God, yeah, do we have enough?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
time.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
I've had so many moments like that.
Yeah, exactly, I mean on apersonal level.
I'll tell you that in themiddle of production, my son got
COVID and I had to move out ofmy apartment because I couldn't
bring COVID to the set.
So I had to hide it fromeverybody on set and then sort
of silently move out and live ina hotel for a week which was
(22:13):
actually quite nice while wewere in production, because it
was a health hazard.
So that's one thing.
But I will tell you that ingeneral and this is so ironic
for a director I hate tellingpeople what to do, and it's true
to mom too.
I tell my son what to do a lot,but in a perfect world, right,
we want to guide them and havethem make the best choices, and
(22:34):
then that's just really how itworks out.
And on a film set especially onan indie set where we had to
shoot our film in 15 days, wehad a very tight budget, we did
not have room to mess around.
We had to get stuff right 15?
Speaker 1 (22:49):
15?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
The idea 15 days, we shot it in 15 days.
Yeah, wow, yeah.
So most film crews work in theway that the director shows up
and says you stand there, youstand there, we're going to get
that shot.
We're going to get that shot.
We're going to get that shot.
Okay, shot, we're going to getthat shot.
We're going to get that shot.
Okay, everybody, let's go.
And it's not my leadership style.
My leadership style isincredibly collaborative.
(23:10):
It's probably very female, it'svery nurturing.
Okay, I just want to make sure,do you feel good about that?
Great, and how are you feelingGreat?
And if an actor says you knowwhat, I don't want to do it that
way, I want to do somethingelse, my impulse is to say great
, let's do it the way you feeland we'll all adjust.
But in fact, that is quiteimpractical on a film set.
(23:32):
So the biggest hurdle for meand I'm being very vulnerable by
sharing this is that I had tocraft a leadership style that
was in integrity with who Iactually am, but effective.
I had to be able to get the jobdone without coming in and
acting like some dude I saw onMasterpiece Theater.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, yeah, very interesting, that's hard.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
That's been hard for me.
I had to learn how to reallystand my ground.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, that is hard, that is a big challenge.
Oh, absolutely.
Oh, I love that there's so muchto talk about.
Last two things I do, because Iknow we're winding down here on
time.
But last two things I want toask you or talk to you about is
this whole thing about kind ofloving ourself more in our 50s?
You know you're balancing a lot.
I know you mentioned and I'mgoing back to earlier in the
(24:25):
conversation when that curtainopened at Gina Davis's after she
announced the opening and youmet her and everything, and
you're kind of looking aroundmaking sure the caterer's there,
making sure that everybody'sset, making sure that.
How do you carve out time foryourself and do you?
What's your self-care routine?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, I have a morning routine.
I have a rock-sol a morningroutine.
I have a rock solid morningroutine.
I wake up with my son In aperfect world.
I try to remember to drinkwater before coffee, but that's
not always what happens.
I have a meditation practice.
I have a yoga practice.
I write down five things I'mgrateful for every day.
(25:04):
I have a journaling practice.
Every single day, I have to dothose things.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Do you really?
Oh, I'm proud of you for that.
That's awesome, and I hopeeverybody listening can
incorporate some sort ofself-care, self-love routine
because we do.
We need to treat ourselves asguest of honors like we treat
everyone else.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
We do we treat them with kindness and love.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
I think the real lesson in our 50s is that this
is it.
We're not going to miraculouslywake up and be somebody else.
In our 20s, it was easy toimagine that our lives could go
in any direction, anything couldhappen.
But I'm 55 right now and Idon't know if anything could
happen.
A great many things will happen, but I don't know that anything
will happen.
So if great many things willhappen, but I don't know that,
(25:49):
like anything will happen, so ifI don't love the person I am
right now in my imperfect skin,then what are we talking about?
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Love that, love that.
That's a mic drop right there,so I watched it on Apple TV last
night.
So where else, ramona atMidlife, we can watch it there.
You can either buy it or rentit, right.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
You can buy it or rent it on Apple TV on Prime
Prime is our big one right nowand Fandango at home.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Oh, fabulous.
Okay, that's awesome.
I'll have everything in theepisode notes for that how to
watch, and I would love for I'mactually going to kind of do
when we drop this episode, I'mgoing to have a little little
questions for the people thatfollow me, just to find out and
get some feedback for you, CauseI I just loved it and I would
love to hear what other peoplethink too.
It just is, it's just spot on.
(26:40):
You really did a great job andI hope that you can savor this a
little bit.
You know, I think sometimes wejust go from achievement to
achievement, to achievement tonext goal, and it's like you got
to really savor this becauseit's pretty remarkable.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I think you're right.
I'm going to learn how?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yeah, and you know what?
We're all a work in progress,right?
So last question is I can'twait to hear your answer on this
.
I already have a feeling whatit's going to be, but I may be
off, brooke, if you were sittingon the couch and you look over
and there's Brooke at 30, whatadvice would you give her?
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Keep going, it's not over, it's not done.
You have lots and lots of timeto evolve.
You'll do so many things, and Iwill tell you that Brooke, at
30, was very, very worried thatshe wouldn't have a child.
So I would tell her that you'regoing to have a child in your
future.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
That's amazing.
Thank you for that.
I always love that because Ithink about that so often.
Like if Amy was sitting here at30, what would she think, and
what a privilege it is.
What would she think?
You know, I?
always say I would, I was such aI'm a recovering perfectionist,
for sure but I would go over tothat Amy and just hug her and
just say I love you as you are.
(28:00):
You know you're perfect.
Just you're in, perfectlyperfect, and that's and this is
right where you need to be atthis moment, because I think so
often we project out or we thinkso many, you know we're
planning all these things, butit's like in this moment where
you are, you're meant to beright there and that's what I
would tell her.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Just embrace it.
I love that.
Yeah, thank you, I love that somuch.
30 is when my life started toget good.
My 20s were really hard.
My 30s were amazing.
Get good my 20s were reallyhard.
My 30s were amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
My 40s were hard.
Again, my 50s have been amazing.
Yeah, I agree, and I love justshining a spotlight on women
like yourself that are justdoing incredible things and
through collaboration andthrough you know, sharing how
you, how your passion andpurpose intersected.
Thank you for that, because somany people get stuck and I hope
from this episode today, fromwords that you've spoken, that
people can say all right, youknow what Brooke did this.
(28:51):
I think I'm going to try this,I'm going to do something, and
that's really where my heart isand I think that's where yours
is too.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
I'm so glad.
Yeah, absolutely, I mean.
I think the other thing that'sreally important in everything
you're saying is to hold thepeople you love close to you,
because I made this movie withpeople I love.
I didn't do it by myself.
I wrote that movie for thoseactors.
I called up all my friends.
People really showed up for me.
(29:19):
I asked for help, just likeyou're talking about, and this
was a community effort as muchas an individual achievement.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Amazing.
I love it.
And thanks for being soflexible and being like, yeah, I
can make it work.
I mean, we literally pulledthis together in 24 hours.
Not even no, we did, we didit's true.
Thanks, brooke.
Thanks for asking.
Oh, absolutely, have a good dayand everybody go watch the film
.
All right, see ya.
Thanks so much for listeningtoday.
We know how valuable your timeis and that's why we keep it
(29:48):
short and sweet.
Don't forget to follow us onall the socials and you can
check out all the links andresources in the show notes.
Until next time, go forth andbe awesome.
Hey, fearless Friends , it's Amy Schmidt, and today's
F Word is going to be how wefearlessly face our 50s yeah,
our 50s.
You know what?
Today's guest is incredible.
I just watched her movie lastnight it was a premiere night,
actually and I watched it onApple TV and I'm not there and I
(00:20):
actually, in my phone, wrotedown several things that we're
going to discuss during thisepisode.
A few little notes, but today Ihave on the show Brooke Burman.
She's an award-winningplaywright, filmmaker and
memoirist.
She wrote and directed LeBronat Midlife, which recently
premiered at Geena Davis'esteemed Bentonville Film
Festival.
Her plays have been seen acrossthe country and internationally
(00:41):
.
She's the author of threenonfiction books, including the
Memoir the Place Like Home,published by Random House.
Brooke Berman, I am so excitedto have you on the show today.
Well, hey, fearless friends,like I said in the intro, this
is going to be an awesomeepisode, and you know what?
(01:03):
My guest, brooke Berman.
Welcome, brooke, thank you knowwhat.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
My guest Brooke Berman.
Welcome, Brooke, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I'm so excited You're sitting in your son's room,
which I just am calling out,because I just think that's
awesome.
Thank you so much why not.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I always tell people so that they know the anime
books aren't mine and they knowthe samurai sword isn't mine,
Isn't yours.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Keeping it real.
Keeping it real.
I love this.
So I have to just set the stageby saying I watched Ramona at
midlife last night.
I want to go back to this filmand I have to actually take my
phone out because I have to readsomething, and I didn't tell
Brooke about this before.
This is one of the quotes fromthe movie last night.
People in midlife wake up andthey realize they have become
(01:46):
someone they haven't intended.
I loved that.
I wrote it down.
My husband was watching themovie with me.
I know it gave me goosebumpsbecause it's so true.
I mean, is there really likethis midlife awakening?
That's like wow, who am I now?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Well, look, I'm not an expert on midlife.
I mean, I wrote a fictionalstory about fictional characters
and I put words in their mouth,so I can only speak from my
experience.
But while I was writing themovie, I got really, really
interested.
I had a couple of projects Iwas writing around the same time
and each of the three of themhinged around the idea of who we
(02:30):
, when we were 25 and we lookedinto the future, who we imagined
we'd become, and aconfrontation between that
imaginary self and the person weactually became.
Right, because you're nevergoing to, you're never going to
intuit it exactly the right way.
It's always going to be alittle different than you
imagine.
So in this kind of midlifereckoning, there are the girls
(02:53):
that we were at 25.
And then there's the fantasy ofwhat it would be like to be 50.
I mean, I imagined that 50 yearolds were, I mean, not done but
settled.
I imagine that 50-year-olds hadreally done the heavy lifting
of their lives, had become thepeople they needed to become and
were, you know, basicallycoasting till death.
(03:14):
And that in fact, is not true,and I don't know if it's
particular to our generationthat it's no longer true because
the structures have upended, orif it was always not true.
I mean my grandma certainly,who's one of my role models.
She had a whole second life inher fifties and then a third
life in her seventies.
(03:34):
Did she really, oh?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
okay, that's amazing.
That's amazing yeah she did.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
She went, she was a stay at home mom, uh, when her
kids were little.
She was a stay-at-home mom whenher kids were little and then,
after my mom got married, shewent back to work as a real
estate agent and she had a wholelife then and then after her
husband died in her seventies,she actually then had a whole
other chapter and sherecommitted to selling houses.
(04:01):
She sold houses in Detroit butmoved into an apartment and had
a community and she worked untilshe was 95.
Did she?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
really that's awesome .
That's awesome.
I mean, it is reallyinteresting.
I think there's so much that we, we these layers that we just
peel back in our fifties.
You know, you, you kind ofrediscover and and and uncover
things about yourself you didn'trealize.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I certainly know I did.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I mean, I don't know about you, but I really feel
there is that awakening.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Absolutely.
And look, I didn't become a momuntil later.
So we're the same age and yourson is a grown-up in London and
my son's a 14-year-old, in hisfreshman year of high school,
and I'm getting texts all day,you know, can he get off his
phone please?
The teachers are like pleasetell him to get off his phone,
because I didn't have a childtill I was 41.
(04:53):
So I spent my 40s sitting onplaygrounds.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, isn't that crazy, I mean.
And so many women did, so manywomen did.
When we talk about Gen Xers,you know, I think about we kind
of were that generation of wecan do it all right.
I mean, we were kind of theworld is like.
We were kind of, I think, kindof sold that bill of goods of.
Was it private school or publicschool?
(05:18):
Was it a stay-at-home mom ordid you work, was it?
You know all of that.
We kind of had those choices,but we felt like we the baby
boomers gave that to us.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I mean, I think we inherited that from our mother's
generation.
I don't think we made that up.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
You think we did?
Yeah, that's probably true.
That's probably true.
There was this feeling of likewe could do it all and we were
really striving to do it all.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I mean, I think so I can only speak for myself and
all I ever wanted was to be atheater artist.
So I moved to New York when Iwas 18 and I built a career in
the theater and, honestly, Iwasn't thinking about having it
all.
I just was doing things in theorder they came.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Have you always been like if I was to sit down with
your mom and if your grandma wasstill alive?
And I ask them you know, hey,was Brooke always super creative
?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, I come from a creative family.
My mom was a concert pianist,my grandma had wanted to be a
singer but then gave it up tohave kids, and my mom gave up
her piano to have me.
My mom's sister is a painter.
Like my cousins are musicians.
I sort of come from that.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
You do, I love that, I love that, so you've always
had that.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
That's just, that's in your genes.
I always ask people like whenwas it for you when your passion
and purpose really intersected?
Oh, that is such an excellent,excellent question.
I mean, honestly, I went Ithink it was in my thirties.
I went to graduate school at 28.
So I was in grad school from 28to 30.
And I think that was when mypassion and my purpose collided
(06:52):
and it was when I committed tobeing a playwright, because up
until then I had been aperformer and I had written and
I had produced and my hands werein a lot of different creative
baskets.
My hands were in a lot ofdifferent creative baskets.
And then I had this opportunityto go to Juilliard and study
with Marcia Norman, and it'sreally where I got my ducks in a
row and committed to one thingwhich was playwriting, and
(07:17):
really set about learning thatcraft, and I think it was in
those years.
And then I had a bunch of playsthat were produced and then
that led to films and I'd alwayswanted to make a film, but I
didn't know how.
It seemed super overwhelmingand like there was this whole
technical side and um is itcompletely different?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Is it completely different?
So for someone listening orwatching, walk, walk us through
that.
Like it's just completelydifferent how you write it, how
you create it.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
All of the above, all of it's completely different.
Playwrights kind of dream upthe play and then we have lots
and lots of time in rehearsalwith actors.
We workshop the play, we go tothese little development
colonies there's a lot of timewhere the play is this protected
thing between artists and we'remaking it better and making it
(08:08):
better, and making it better,and then we bring it to market.
So you hear these stories aboutLin-Manuel, miranda and Hamilton
, for example, and he had theidea when he was an undergrad at
Wesleyan and then he waswriting and then they would do
these workshops and then it'svery far down the line where
they start to bring in thebusiness people and figure out
(08:28):
how to market it and how to sellit and how to bring it to
audiences and all of that.
Film is the opposite.
So generally in film you pitchan idea, you get hired to write
that idea, you attach, castpretty early you, you attach,
you bring in the writer and thedirector and you're always, even
from the inception, selling andfilm has to get made in a very
(08:53):
specific number of days becauseyou're paying people by the day.
So you have to have a rocksolid plan.
There's not a lot of room forlike figuring it out and
figuring it out.
It's my favorite part.
You know the collaboration,yeah.
Oh yeah, as a, as a creative,it's very.
Yeah, film is very, very, verypractical.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, oh, interesting .
So I want you to take me tothat moment of um the premiere
at Gina Davis's esteemedBentonville film festival.
I mean, that's huge.
And I want you to walk methrough this because I feel as
though a lot of times in our 50sand beyond, our inner critic is
very noisy and our innercheerleader is muted, like we
(09:35):
are just.
And I have to be honest withyou, I do a lot of media and
there's a lot of times when Ihave to go back and watch it or
I see the segment and I'm like,oh, are they going to get me
from that right angle?
Are they going to get me fromthis?
Am I going to look 10 poundsheavier?
That inner critic, even thoughI know my message is really good
, I still fight that to this day.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Oh Amy, I feel that way every day.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I feel that way every day.
Okay, then we're soul sisters.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Of course I do.
I feel that way right now.
I didn't know we were going tobe on camera.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
I know you did and I'm like, oh, no stress, no, you
look beautiful, but that innercritic is so loud.
So take me to that premiereSure, Walk me through that.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I mean I always wish I were taller.
I always wish I were fivepounds lighter.
I always wish I were a littleblonder.
I always like rethink my choiceto not Botox, like I don't do
that.
But then I think like, oh, geez, maybe I should like.
Really, brooke, you know, Ithink that's really human.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
It is human, it is human, so true, so true.
I know I got on the scale and Iwas measured the other day at
my physical and I'm like, oh,please still be five, four still
.
You know, I'm like, please, Iwas so that was good, but what?
Were you feeling as like I mean, the curtains probably didn't
open, but for our viewers andlisteners let's just say the
(10:52):
curtains opened and this filmstarts.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And you're sitting there.
What are you looking at?
Are you watching?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
it, or are you looking at people's reactions?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Well, by the time, we had our world premiere.
So you're talking about ourworld premiere on the festival
circuit, which was at GinaDavis's Bentonville Film
Festival in June of 2023.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Wait a minute, just say that again.
I mean you said that like, ohyeah, it was just a Gina Davis's
film, you got to like own thatgirl.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
All right, All right, we had our world premiere at
Gina Davis's Bentonville FilmFestival.
Gina herself introduced thefilm, so that was thrilling.
I got to meet her, which wasthrilling, yeah, and it was
really exciting.
But I think you have tounderstand, as a middle-aged mom
(11:43):
, I'm always caretaking.
You know people keep asking meare you enjoying this?
And I think, well, I don't know.
Am I?
Because in my brain I'm workingthrough the logistics of
everybody else's experience.
Does that person have what theyneed?
Did catering show up on time?
That sound cue feels off to me.
How does the actress feel rightnow?
(12:04):
Is somebody taking care of her?
What are we doing after this?
Did somebody set up the afterparty?
What's going on with that billthat I know I need to pay?
How are we getting to?
I'm a mom, so I'm always mommingmy way through it.
I don't know what enjoying itmeans at this exact moment, but
(12:26):
there are moments when it reallyhits me and the most exciting
thing, honestly, is when peoplesee the film and want to come
talk about it with me.
Or the most thrilling thing onthe festival circuit is that
people really feel seen by thismovie and there's a sector, not
just women, but also somestay-at-home dads who come up to
(12:46):
me afterwards and say that wasmy journey.
I had that experience.
That's how I feel and that'swhat matters to me.
You know that we're reallyconnecting with audiences
Because, look, there are allthese movies about middle-aged
women on the marketplace rightnow, but very few of us are like
injecting toxic substance orhaving the kink relationship or,
(13:07):
you know, in the case of thatDelightful in Halfway movie,
dating a rock star, you knowmost of us are Ramona.
Most of us are just figuring outhow to make room for ourselves
on a small human scale.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah, yeah.
How do you go about casting?
How do you find that she wasfabulous?
She was fabulous and sobeautiful, isn't she great, oh,
I know so beautiful andrelatable.
Like honestly relatable, justlike okay, yeah, I get this,
like wow.
My shoulders dropped a coupletimes during the film because I
was like whew, just deep breath.
Like wow, I get this, I feelthis.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Oh, I'm doing my job.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, they did, they did, they really did.
I had to stop it a couple oftimes because my husband was
like oh, amy, and I was typingin my notes because I knew we
had this interview and I'm likeI got to write that down because
it's so good, it really wasgood, but how do you go about
filling those spots?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
You've written this you kind of have an idea in your
mind of who you want to cast.
Well, I actually wrote it forthat actress you did.
So, that actress that you'retalking about.
I wrote the movie for her and Ideveloped the movie with the
actors who are actually in it,which is a rare luxury in the
conventional Hollywood system.
Before this movie, I'd been indevelopment with another movie.
(14:24):
For I'm going to tell you eightyears Wow, eight years.
Because in the conventionalHollywood model, what you do is
you get a movie star and then,based on the movie star or at
this point it's really likethree or four movie stars then
you can go get your fundingBecause you can say to a
financier I have thisextraordinary movie star that
(14:46):
everybody wants to go see, andso you know you'll make your
money back.
And that was exactly how myother project that was the hill,
my last project died on,because we spent two years
making offers to extraordinaryactresses who were probably
never going to say yes to asmall scale movie, and we
couldn't get our million dollarbudget without one of those
(15:07):
names.
So we just the movie didn't getmade.
And when I turned 50 and thepandemic happened five seconds
later, I just felt like I didn'thave time to waste anymore.
I had played by the rules, Ihad done what everyone told me
to do.
I had followed every knowncoordinate about how to make my
(15:30):
first movie and when that wasn'tworking, I took matters in my
own hands and I did it my ownway.
And if I'm going to do it myown way, then I'm going to cast
who I want.
I'm going to cast people.
I trust I'm going to castpeople I've worked with before.
I'm going to cast theateractors.
I'm going to cast people who wecan get on set and make stuff
(15:50):
up together and I trust theirinstincts, you know fully.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Oh well, you hit it out of the ballpark.
They were all phenomenal,Really were.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Really were they all great.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
I love them so much.
I want to talk a little bitabout something that comes up
often, especially at this stageof our life women of a certain
age, I guess and that questionof help.
I've had certain circumstancesin my life.
I took a hiatus from thepodcast for a bit because of
some health things in our familyand it was a time actually
(16:21):
Brooke and I talk about this insome other episodes where I
actually needed to ask for help,like I really needed help.
And in my 30s, in my 20s, whenI'm like you know, I'm a
broadcaster, I'm a journalist,I'm doing all of this and I
wanted to get there the fastestI could you know further,
fastest and I do it by myself,like I can control it all.
(16:42):
I can do it better if I do itby myself.
And then in my 50s, a bunch ofthings hit and it was like loss
of parents, moving back frombeing in Germany for six years,
all of these different things,and I was like man, if I
actually use my resources and Iactually put out there, hey, I
need some help, you just grow inso many ways.
Have you found that, or are youstill kind of like I got to do
(17:04):
it myself.
You found that Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
No, absolutely.
And I'm smiling while you'resaying that because I don't know
if you remember, but that's inthe movie.
There's a moment when Ramona'sex says will you be okay?
And she goes I'm always okay.
Yes, because that, in fact, isthat hyper control I can do it
all.
I have to do it all.
I have to do it all.
I can't accept help, I'm alwaysokay.
(17:28):
It becomes armor, right?
Yes, yes, I had to accept help.
So much on this movie.
I was a woman in her 50s who hadnever made a feature before, so
there was a ton of stuff Ididn't know how to do.
In my 40s I changed lanes fromprimarily being a writer to
being a writer director, andthat was huge.
(17:50):
I went to work.
I got a job teachingscreenwriting at NYU Grad Film
and while I was teaching mystudents to write, I was
learning visual logic from them.
I was really.
I used that job as my secondgraduate school.
I went to every meeting.
I went to every meeting.
I went to faculty meetings, Iwent to guest speakers.
(18:12):
I went to, you know, programsin the evening so that I could
learn what the students werelearning and I could learn to
think with a camera, which wasreally new for me.
And then I needed help figuringout how to make a budget.
I'd never really made a budgetfor a film before I needed help.
I had one of my good goodfriends is a filmmaker who's
(18:35):
more established than me and hetalked me through every scene of
my movie.
I just asked him.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I asked him to mentor me, and he did.
I love that M word mentor, it'shuge.
It's huge, yeah, wow.
I love to hear that because Ithink so often, so many of us
get stuck saying I can just doit myself.
There's also this factor of ourstage of life where the two Ps,
the evil twins, I call themperfectionism, procrastination.
(19:02):
Oh, I'm going to wait till thetiming's right to do this.
So I'm just just gonna wait alittle longer.
Or I'm just gonna wait tillI've lost this 10 pounds or this
five pounds.
You mentioned it earlier in theconversation.
You know I'm just gonna wait.
I'd be waiting forever, butthat that happens so often, you
can't wait, yeah, you can't wait.
So at 52 you wrote your firstfilm, right 52 well, no, no, I
(19:25):
had written other films before.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
I had written many films before but I hadn't gone
into production and made one.
I sold my.
I wrote my first film 20 yearsago.
I sold a uh, I did anadaptation of one of my plays
for a movie star and I sold itto Hollywood.
And then I moved to LA and Iwrote movies for a living for a
couple of years and while themovies weren't getting made, for
(19:50):
various reasons, I was indevelopment with a different one
and my development executivesaid well, do you want to direct
this?
Because if you direct it, Iknow how to set it up.
And back in 2007, 2008, I waslike, no, I don't want to direct
it.
But a couple of years later Ithought, well, actually, maybe I
do, because the director is theperson that has the will and
(20:14):
the ability to move the thing,to move the needle forward.
The writer in Hollywood has nopower.
And I understood how the storyneeded to be embodied and what
it felt like, and I understoodhow to put the elements together
, even if I didn't alwaysunderstand what it felt like.
And I understood how to put theelements together, even if I
didn't always understand what itlooked like.
So this was the first movie Imade, but it was not the first
movie I wrote.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Okay, perfect.
Thank you for clarifying that.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
But still 52.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I mean crazy.
So I want you to take me to amoment.
I mean they talk about yeah, goahead, no, go ahead.
Finish please.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Oh, I was just going to say.
They talk about first-timedirectors all the time, but
they're rarely women in their50s, right?
First you think about afirst-time director, and there
are all sorts of festivals forfirst-time directors.
They're usually men between 25and 35.
Wow, every now and then there'sa girl in there, but nobody's
over the age of 35 ever.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Amazing, amazing.
I want you to take me to amoment that's really been a
challenge for you.
That's really challenged you,whether it's personally or
professionally.
I mean you've got a 14-year-old.
Right now You're in like thethroes of like getting their
temps, their license or wearingdeodorant every day, making sure
they do so their room isn'tstinky.
You know, I mean I'm just alittle beyond that.
(21:24):
Mine are grown and flown, butyou know you've got so many
things you're managing as a momand a wife and, you know, an
executive producer.
I mean just amazing.
I want you to, for thelisteners and people watching,
take me to a moment that reallychallenged you, where you were
like man, I could pull thecovers back over my head right
now and not get out of bed today.
(21:45):
Did you have any moments likethat, and how you've persevered.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Oh, my God, yeah, do we have enough?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
time.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
I've had so many moments like that.
Yeah, exactly, I mean on apersonal level.
I'll tell you that in themiddle of production, my son got
COVID and I had to move out ofmy apartment because I couldn't
bring COVID to the set.
So I had to hide it fromeverybody on set and then sort
of silently move out and live ina hotel for a week which was
(22:13):
actually quite nice while wewere in production, because it
was a health hazard.
So that's one thing.
But I will tell you that ingeneral and this is so ironic
for a director I hate tellingpeople what to do, and it's true
to mom too.
I tell my son what to do a lot,but in a perfect world, right,
we want to guide them and havethem make the best choices, and
(22:34):
then that's just really how itworks out.
And on a film set especially onan indie set where we had to
shoot our film in 15 days, wehad a very tight budget, we did
not have room to mess around.
We had to get stuff right 15?
Speaker 1 (22:49):
15?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
The idea 15 days, we shot it in 15 days.
Yeah, wow, yeah.
So most film crews work in theway that the director shows up
and says you stand there, youstand there, we're going to get
that shot.
We're going to get that shot.
We're going to get that shot.
Okay, shot, we're going to getthat shot.
We're going to get that shot.
Okay, everybody, let's go.
And it's not my leadership style.
My leadership style isincredibly collaborative.
(23:10):
It's probably very female, it'svery nurturing.
Okay, I just want to make sure,do you feel good about that?
Great, and how are you feelingGreat?
And if an actor says you knowwhat, I don't want to do it that
way, I want to do somethingelse, my impulse is to say great
, let's do it the way you feeland we'll all adjust.
But in fact, that is quiteimpractical on a film set.
(23:32):
So the biggest hurdle for meand I'm being very vulnerable by
sharing this is that I had tocraft a leadership style that
was in integrity with who Iactually am, but effective.
I had to be able to get the jobdone without coming in and
acting like some dude I saw onMasterpiece Theater.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, yeah, very interesting, that's hard.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
That's been hard for me.
I had to learn how to reallystand my ground.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, that is hard, that is a big challenge.
Oh, absolutely.
Oh, I love that there's so muchto talk about.
Last two things I do, because Iknow we're winding down here on
time.
But last two things I want toask you or talk to you about is
this whole thing about kind ofloving ourself more in our 50s?
You know you're balancing a lot.
I know you mentioned and I'mgoing back to earlier in the
(24:25):
conversation when that curtainopened at Gina Davis's after she
announced the opening and youmet her and everything, and
you're kind of looking aroundmaking sure the caterer's there,
making sure that everybody'sset, making sure that.
How do you carve out time foryourself and do you?
What's your self-care routine?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, I have a morning routine.
I have a rock-sol a morningroutine.
I have a rock solid morningroutine.
I wake up with my son In aperfect world.
I try to remember to drinkwater before coffee, but that's
not always what happens.
I have a meditation practice.
I have a yoga practice.
I write down five things I'mgrateful for every day.
(25:04):
I have a journaling practice.
Every single day, I have to dothose things.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Do you really?
Oh, I'm proud of you for that.
That's awesome, and I hopeeverybody listening can
incorporate some sort ofself-care, self-love routine
because we do.
We need to treat ourselves asguest of honors like we treat
everyone else.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
We do we treat them with kindness and love.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
I think the real lesson in our 50s is that this
is it.
We're not going to miraculouslywake up and be somebody else.
In our 20s, it was easy toimagine that our lives could go
in any direction, anything couldhappen.
But I'm 55 right now and Idon't know if anything could
happen.
A great many things will happen, but I don't know that anything
will happen.
So if great many things willhappen, but I don't know that,
(25:49):
like anything will happen, so ifI don't love the person I am
right now in my imperfect skin,then what are we talking about?
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Love that, love that.
That's a mic drop right there,so I watched it on Apple TV last
night.
So where else, ramona atMidlife, we can watch it there.
You can either buy it or rentit, right.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
You can buy it or rent it on Apple TV on Prime
Prime is our big one right nowand Fandango at home.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Oh, fabulous.
Okay, that's awesome.
I'll have everything in theepisode notes for that how to
watch, and I would love for I'mactually going to kind of do
when we drop this episode, I'mgoing to have a little little
questions for the people thatfollow me, just to find out and
get some feedback for you, CauseI I just loved it and I would
love to hear what other peoplethink too.
It just is, it's just spot on.
(26:40):
You really did a great job andI hope that you can savor this a
little bit.
You know, I think sometimes wejust go from achievement to
achievement, to achievement tonext goal, and it's like you got
to really savor this becauseit's pretty remarkable.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I think you're right.
I'm going to learn how?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yeah, and you know what?
We're all a work in progress,right?
So last question is I can'twait to hear your answer on this
.
I already have a feeling whatit's going to be, but I may be
off, brooke, if you were sittingon the couch and you look over
and there's Brooke at 30, whatadvice would you give her?
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Keep going, it's not over, it's not done.
You have lots and lots of timeto evolve.
You'll do so many things, and Iwill tell you that Brooke, at
30, was very, very worried thatshe wouldn't have a child.
So I would tell her that you'regoing to have a child in your
future.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
That's amazing.
Thank you for that.
I always love that because Ithink about that so often.
Like if Amy was sitting here at30, what would she think, and
what a privilege it is.
What would she think?
You know, I?
always say I would, I was such aI'm a recovering perfectionist,
for sure but I would go over tothat Amy and just hug her and
just say I love you as you are.
(28:00):
You know you're perfect.
Just you're in, perfectlyperfect, and that's and this is
right where you need to be atthis moment, because I think so
often we project out or we thinkso many, you know we're
planning all these things, butit's like in this moment where
you are, you're meant to beright there and that's what I
would tell her.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Just embrace it.
I love that.
Yeah, thank you, I love that somuch.
30 is when my life started toget good.
My 20s were really hard.
My 30s were amazing.
Get good my 20s were reallyhard.
My 30s were amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
My 40s were hard.
Again, my 50s have been amazing.
Yeah, I agree, and I love justshining a spotlight on women
like yourself that are justdoing incredible things and
through collaboration andthrough you know, sharing how
you, how your passion andpurpose intersected.
Thank you for that, because somany people get stuck and I hope
from this episode today, fromwords that you've spoken, that
people can say all right, youknow what Brooke did this.
(28:51):
I think I'm going to try this,I'm going to do something, and
that's really where my heart isand I think that's where yours
is too.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
I'm so glad.
Yeah, absolutely, I mean.
I think the other thing that'sreally important in everything
you're saying is to hold thepeople you love close to you,
because I made this movie withpeople I love.
I didn't do it by myself.
I wrote that movie for thoseactors.
I called up all my friends.
People really showed up for me.
(29:19):
I asked for help, just likeyou're talking about, and this
was a community effort as muchas an individual achievement.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Amazing.
I love it.
And thanks for being soflexible and being like, yeah, I
can make it work.
I mean, we literally pulledthis together in 24 hours.
Not even no, we did, we didit's true.
Thanks, brooke.
Thanks for asking.
Oh, absolutely, have a good dayand everybody go watch the film
.
All right, see ya.
Thanks so much for listeningtoday.
We know how valuable your timeis and that's why we keep it
(29:48):
short and sweet.
Don't forget to follow us onall the socials and you can
check out all the links andresources in the show notes.
Until next time, go forth andbe awesome.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!