July 13, 2025 • 48 mins
Welcome back to the pod Candice Fox, one of Australia's most celebrated crime fiction authors. She's onto her 22nd book as we recorded this episode.
This isn't Candice's first time on the pod, she was on it about 3 years ago, you can listen to that chat here: Candice on the pod vol 1
In this episode we talked about 2 of her latest books and one of them being optioned for Apple TV and just before we hit record on this episode it was announced that Ridley Scott's production company Scott Free Productions had signed on to produce her latest book High Wire.
In preparation for this podcast I was stuck i the Byron Bay cyclone and it ended up being the perfect time to read both of Candice's newest releases; High Wire and 2 Sisters Murder Investigation. The latter was set in LA so we talked lots about Candice's time living in LA too. She's one of the best storytellers i've ever met. You're in for a real treat.
You can get copies of her books here: https://www.candicefox.org/books
You can follow along all of Candice's adventures (and saving animals) here on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/candicefoxauthor/
Big big love and Candice here's to being brave and not overthinking things!
Big love,
Lola
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Get a I'm Lala Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter
and professional overshaer. This podcast is all about celebrating failure
because I believe it's a chance for us to learn,
grow and face our blind spots. Each week I'll interview
a different guest about their highs as well as they're lows,
(00:26):
all in a bid to inspire us to fearlessly fail.
Welcome back to the Potter Rooney Candas Fox. Now. Candace
is Australia's best selling crime fiction author and if you
ask me, she's a bit of a legend. She's been
on the pod before. So if you want to go
(00:46):
back and listen to her first chat on flously Failing,
it's episode one hundred and five. This chat we had
a couple of months ago in Sydney. Candace is all heart.
She's written a mazillion books. Literally, the books are also
absolute Paige Schurners and I say this with my hand
(01:07):
on my heart. Until I booked Candace Fox to come
on the pod the first time, I'd never read crime
fiction ever before, and Candace, you got me hooked. So
the reason why we got to chat again in Sydney
is because I'm just a fangirl like, to be really
honest with you, She's got so many great books out there.
And living in La I randomly ran into someone from
(01:28):
Apple whilst working in a yoga studio and they said
to me, you wouldn't know Candace Fox, would you by chance?
And I was like, yes, actually I would know Candace Fox.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Anyway. Cut a long story short.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Candace Fox has written this incredible book that we talk
about on today's pod called high Wire. Apple has got
the rights to this book and Ridley Scott, yes you
heard that right, Ridley Scott has signed on as a
producer of this incredible TV show with Apple. Now we're
talking Gladiator Aliens the release Scott. So, Candace, you are incredible.
(02:05):
You're also insanely humble and just an all round legend.
So to you the listener, I hope you love this chat.
Candace is absolutely wonderful. If you are a writer, if
you're a creative, if you've got any kind of a dream,
this episode is for you. Candace never gave up when
she got rejection letters at the very start of her career,
(02:27):
and now she is literally one of Australia's most celebrated authors.
So enjoy the wonderful Candace Fox. Candace Fox, Welcome back
to the pod, my friend.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I'm so happy to be here. I've been waiting for this.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
I honestly I so First of all of the listener,
I'm going to say, Australia's most successful and kindest, nicest,
bestest crime fiction author, welcome to the Pod. Award winning
New York Times bestselling absolute legend have an author.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I'll take that as an introduction. I like that.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I mean, it's probably not the US, but I'm going
to make that my official bio from now. Honestly, honestly,
I I think of you so often because I live
in la as you know, and if I ever walk
into like an amazing books because I feel like Americans
are obsessed with crime.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah they should be everywhere.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I was going to say, a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Comes out of there, right they do? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Do you know.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I've got a friend.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I live close to the Hollywood Hills and he's like,
he lives in Brentwood and he's like, I'm not going
to visit you.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And I was like why and he's like murder.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Like He's like all the dark shit happens towards there.
And then I researched and took you would love this.
I took a psychic around with me to murder sites.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Oh yeah, yeah in.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
LA and they're all that way. They're like Glen Dale
and Los Feelers. There's like murder mansions where people.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Go like, you can do the tour. You can do
the bus tour. Let's go from spot to but yeah,
go to you know, the Charles Manson ranch, go to
the house there. You can do the OJ Simpson thing.
You can go all the different places and you just
get on a bus and it's the there's also a
murder museum there. Have you done all this? Oh? Of course,
(04:16):
of course. I think I did most of it on
my honeymoon. And yeah, I love how crime in LA
is because it's the beautiful. It's the amazing opulence of
people's houses and the extreme wealth, you know. And then
next right next door to that is extreme posit, poverty
(04:36):
and crime and people are lying in the streets. And
when I moved to LA for a year, I said
to my husband, I want to do three things. I
want to call nine one one and I want to
yeah yeah, and I want to be part in a
separate incident. I want to be part of a crowd
and something happens and I go somebody gone nine one one,
(05:00):
And then I want to be pulled over by a
highway sheriff and I want to roll the window down
and I want to say what seems to be the
problem officer. And I had done all three of those
things in the first six months, and I was like,
I need new life goals. So what you call nine
on one for? So we were driving through la we
lived in Hollywood Hills as well for a bit. We're
(05:21):
just driving through LA's this a Sunday afternoon and we
come up to this intersection and there was a homeless
woman in the middle of the intersection and she had
two hammers and she was just swinging them at cars.
As we drove past it.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
You're like, we have machety guy on the corner of
our street.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, right out with Well, I called nine one one
and I was like, this is what I'm seeing, this
is what's happening. And she said, oh, has she actually
hurt anyone yet? And I said no, but I feel
like that's in our near future. She's swinging two hammers
in the middle of an intersection and the operator goes, oh,
I'll send a car like.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
I was like, oh, so nonchalant.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah. She was like, we've got a mass shooting over here,
we got a bus rolled over, we got a hostage situation.
You're worried about some chick with hammers, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I mean, I feel like La would be a field
day for you, like in the mount like in the
time that I like, I'll be driving in the middle
of the day in like West La, which is like
really pretty affluent, and I've seen like people held at
gunpoint at the back of their head, like midday.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, out of Ralphs, just after breakfast. It is, everyone's
had their breakfast and they're like, let's cram it up,
field up, let's go and rub a place. Yeah yeah, yeah.
And it's it's a beautiful city. So it's right on
the water and it's beautiful one day perfectly, next it's
trying to be Queensland, and then yeah, there are people
(06:48):
running and I loved it. I loved it. I would
move there in a heartbeat. People say to me, why
do you love La. I'm like, because it's just everything
and in the hills living up there. I was making
one morning and I look out my window and there's
a coyote across the street waiting to cross the street.
He was like waiting for the cars to get past.
All right, tick tic tick, and he goes wandering across
(07:10):
the street. I'm like, there's a wild coyote outside.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Oh yeah, you get very used to seeing wild coyote
and raccoons.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, and there up there in the Have you.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Seen any rattle snakes yet? No, I've seen five.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Oh wow. Yeah, I'm a hiker.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Ah like the rattler's scare me because they've got different
types of poison that are real bad.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
What they're the three nasty part.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Oh you would know this.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
You rescue animals, I do. I love you know what
I've got at the moment home because I bring home
all the babies because my daughter Violet is five, So
whenever I see baby something or other, I go, all right,
I'll care for that for a while. And I brought
home this Eastern long neck turtle because the notes said,
you know, has been found in an apartment complex. No
(07:52):
one knows who it belongs to, so it's been brought
into a vet and it's as big as a two
dollar coin. It is the it's like a pokemon. What
does it eat? You know what, it's getting the best
food ever at my house. It's eating barramunday. I got
a slice of frozen barrel munday and every day I
chop up like a quarter of a teaspoons worth. Yeah,
(08:14):
and I put it in. But this thing is swimming
around living it. Let's live it its best life. I'm
just gonna raise it up until it's big enough so
that when I put it back into the wild, a
bird doesn't just yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
It's got a little bit of a shell and everything.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
But Violet calls everything Annabelle. So no matter like we
we rescue roosters or we bring home like a go anna.
And I said, what are you going to call? It?
Is annabel And then she then she'll go, do you
remember when we had Annabelle. I'm like, what which Annabelle?
The male peaking duck Annabelle, or the rooster Annabelle, or
(08:50):
the goanna Annabelle or the turtle abel Which Annabelle? I
wanted to call it two buck because it's only as
big as but she said, no, it's Anabelle. You're gonna laugh.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
My dad's a vets, So we would he would bring
home animals and I would name them all Bambi or Thumper,
all of them, all of them guinea pigs, dogs, cats,
They were either Bambi or Thumber.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
How funny. I love the attitude. It's like I found
a good name. Stick with it. Yeah, yeap, just ride
that horse right into the ground. Yeah really commit? Yeah? Commit?
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Okay, friend, what book are you up to now?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I'm not even gonna bother.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I started watching recent interviews and I was like, I
think just on twenty two. And then you're telling you
about a new book now, and I'm like, I think.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
That the one I'm working on right now is twenty two,
because actually last year I wrote half of a book. Yeah,
and then I threw it away. I just said, no,
this sucks. I didn't like it. No, I didn't like it.
Spent six months on it, wrote forty thousand words, and
I went, nu, what did you like it? The bin
(09:49):
it was said on a cruise ship. It was halfway.
It was a cruise ship and it was a fishing boat.
So these two people fall off a cruise ship and
a few boat picks them up and they're like, oh,
thank god, we're saved. And then the fishing boat people
are like oh yeah, No, we're having engine trouble and
we can't get any calms. And then the two people
(10:11):
start going vibes. Are we Was this all a setup?
Like yeah, are we hostages? And then everyone on the
cruise ship is like where are they? You know? So
it was a good concept, but it was probably a
good concept for a small show, but not a novel,
like it's ninety thousand words?
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Did you research sharks? I would have been I would
have been like feeding people.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yes, probably the stuff that I end up googling. I
love your brain.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
This is why I love I was like, we could
go down so many rabbit holes, my friend obviously, Yeah,
but I actually so, I've got so many questions.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
First of all, okay, I have I think I said
this is when you came in. I reckon. I've read
eight or nine of your books. I'm a proper fan
fan you fangirl. Yeah, I've got a peece for you
to sign.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
These copies I'm holding in my hand after But I
finished high Wire in the wee hours of the morning today.
Oh good, And I must say reading high Wire driving
from Byron Bay to Sydney because of the setting, I
was like, have I picked the right setting to read
where I could fully imagine this happening to myself.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. And then it's a good road
trip book.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Oh, it's such a good road trip book. And then
I read Two Sisters Murder Investigations. Yeah, Holy Matt, Well
that's all la so you would have loved that.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, bit of Glendale. Oh, I was like, holy Matt,
she knows all the spots. Yeah, I know the good cafes.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
And this is where I'm going to ask you some
nerdy author stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Do it?
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Is it hard because you write from different characters pov
so for listener point of view, so it's not always
through one person?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yes? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Maybe When I read Crimson Lake, is that one person's
point of views at both of them?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
No, it's not, no, because it's you get ted his
first person, and then you get flashbacks, which I think
a third person, and then you get the perspective. Don't
you get the killer's perspective or something in that? Yeah?
I think you. Yeah, God, that's a long time ago.
It's a good though. I always I always did more
than one character's perspective because I get bored OF's one person. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Is it hard to like be like, or do you
like when you're right? Do you like have to like
color courts?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Are you like?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
All right, there's that person.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
It's such an ocd P. A lot of people are
a lot of writers are I just went to a
two men writers retreat with a friend of mine, Anna Down's,
and she had her little beautiful post it notes and
her journals and all of this paraphernalia talking my language, yeah,
spread out in front of her, which is funny. And
then she just sat and she wrote and she worked,
(12:54):
and she said, you are so funny to watch, Candice,
because I would be there and I'll do a big
spurt of writing and she looks like, and I'm gone,
and I'm out there and I'm just being like Mofusser,
I'm just looking at the horizon, you know, And then
more hammering of the keys, and then she hears me,
and you know, because it was my holiday house and
I'm standing a wall and painting it and then more
(13:16):
hammering of the keys, and it's just totally different people. Yeah,
but no, when I go from one character to another,
I feel like more like I'm sitting in their body
and I'm being them. So at the moment it's these
two guys, Russell and Evan, And when I'm Russell, I'm like,
because he's quite an angry guy, and Evan is more
like sort of weak and emotional and like he's he's
(13:39):
having a really hard time, so he's like, what am
I going to do? You know? And so I'm I'm
being this guy, and then I'm being this guy, and
I'm being this guy. It's more of a Yeah, it's
like a suit that I wear. Do you hear a
voice in your head? Like?
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, because your voice just changed quite dramatically.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah. He's ultra Russell is ultramat skill and angry and skeptical,
and he's always slicing people up and people are afraid
of him.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
He's a killer.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
No, No, he's the hero. Oh I love an antie villain.
You're different. That's why I'm enjoying writing him so much,
because he's a very different kind of hero. He's hard
to get on with and people are afraid of him.
So I'm really enjoying those moments where he's not at work,
(14:29):
he's with his daughter and you get to see he's
just like he loves her and she doesn't put up
with any of his crap and you know, and then
he goes back to work and he's like, why didn't
you do that? So fun? But yeah, it's kind of
a secret. It's a secret that I'm sharing with the reader,
which says, you know, you know that he has these
(14:51):
two different sides, but nobody else knows. So hopefully people
will enjoy that, you know. But yeah, yeah, that's the
book I'm running right now. So that's not out for years,
So everybody forget about that. Did you say it's based
on true crime? It is? Do you want to hear
this story?
Speaker 1 (15:08):
This?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Sign me up. This is the wildest story ever, and
I haven't started telling it yet, so you'll be the
first people to hear it. So what happened was everybody
knows I have quite an eccentric mother, right, long story short.
She name changed right yeah, yeah, ocean mermaid, that's right. Yeah,
and she fostered one hundred and fifty five kids while
I was growing up. She's kind of a hoarder, all
(15:29):
that kind of stuff. So she when I was a kid,
I was maybe ten, she was leaving me at home
alone for the first time ever, right, and she said,
you know, whatever you do, don't open the door because
when I was a kid, I was home alone once
I opened the door on a guy and ended up
being a killer. What yeah, legit, yeah, legit and sos.
(15:50):
As a ten year old, I went, I didn't read
much further into it. I went, oh, okay, all right,
I will yeah, I imagine that's what it sounded like
when I was ten. Okay, little American, Okay, mom. Anyway,
so I'm an adult now, you know. And Violet was
one and a half years old, and she's running around
(16:10):
the house in a She's just wearing a nappy and
a top hat, and she had a little briefcase and
running around and I said to Tim, she looks like
a little daughter door salesman. And I thought to myself,
like a drawer. It was like a drawer popped open
in my brain. And I said, my mum told me
a story when I was a kid about a daughter
door salesman coming to the door when she was a
(16:31):
kid and she was home alone and shaping the door,
and he ended up being a killer. And Tim was like, yeah,
that sounds that's on brandy, and he just went back
to his crossword. He had no further questions because he
was late that sounds right. I called her up and
I said, I have this story that just came up
in my brain that you told me when I was
a kid. Was that just bullshit? Like yeah, you know?
(16:52):
And she goes, no, No, I was seventeen. I was
studying for my HC. I was home alone. A guy
knocks on the door and he says, h, I am
an encyclopedia salesman. I'm going door to door selling encyclopedia.
Can I come in and talk to you about them?
And she was like she had the wooden door open
and the screen door locked, and she she said, all
(17:14):
the hairs on my body stood on end. She said.
She thought to herself, why isn't he carrying anything? Like
he doesn't have a briefcase, he doesn't have pamphlets, he
doesn't have encyclopedia. And he was just dressed like casually,
like you know, let me and my bow host. He
was also wearing a bahoe. So she goes, oh, you know,
(17:38):
I can't really because my dad's here. Hey dad, you know,
and pretended her dad was here. She knew something, Yeah,
she knew, and then he turned and walked away. Anyway,
two women had been murdered in her area one just
the week before. So we and that girl went to
her school, right, who's a student teacher at her school
two blocks over and one week earlier, right, And I
(17:58):
said to her, okay, I said, what are the names
of the victims? And she told me and I said, mum,
this is unsolved. Oh there's a million dollar cold case.
It's a very famous case in Australia. And I said,
did you tell anyone at the time, And she goes, nah, well,
I really wasn't supposed to open the door and I
would have got in trouble.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
I was like, oh, for God's sake, holy mad Yeah, So.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I went down this huge rabbit hole. So there's two women,
Lynnette White and Maria Smith. They were murdered in Cujie
by this guy who was going door to door. They
initially thought it was a guy going door to door
because when Lynette was murdered, there was a cup that
was smashed, you know, so they're sort of saying, ah,
has it come in and asked for a cup of water,
(18:45):
you know. And then for Maria it was the same thing.
There was a cup smashed and there was some assaults
in the area where a guy was going around and
sort of talking his way in and saying, oh, I've
just come to do some work on house next door,
and he'd look at their mail and get their names
and say, oh, I just want to leave him a note.
(19:05):
Can I have a piece of paper and a pen?
And he come in and assault these women and a
twelve year old got away from him at the time.
So it was like, is it the same guys at
two separate guys? Anyway, long story short, I tried to
get a podcast up, it didn't work, and then I'm
sitting around and I thought, I want to write a
novel about this. Yeah, but I want to write a
(19:27):
novel about it and talk about it. I want to
talk about these cases and where they came from. But
I don't want to cause any further pain to these families.
I don't want them to be there. And they hear
it on the radio and they go, oh thanks, yeah, like,
and you've also you've written a fiction book about it.
How nice? Yeah? Got it? So I thought, oh, fuck it,
I'm just going to contact the victims' families. So I
(19:49):
just wrote to this guy, Paul White, his wife was murdered,
and I said, you know, I wrote to him and
I said, can we talk and he I didn't say,
what about And then he calls me and then I'm like, okay,
so this is what happened, not bl blah blah blah.
And I told him and I said, and I'm writing
a book, and I don't want you to think that
I am making your wife's murder into entertainment. And it's
(20:12):
not going to be like Dexter. You know, it's going
to be a really thoughtful and soulful thing. And I
hope to use the promo to bring attention to your
wife's care. And he was like, I reopen. I think
that we should have coffee. And I said, okay, let's
have coffee, you know, and so we did. And so
they're fully on board. So I'm going to have the novel.
(20:32):
I'm going to have the novel, and I'm going to
at the end, I'm going to have like an afterward
which says about the real cases, and hopefully I can
build awareness back around. Maybe there's someone out there like
my mum who just never said anything at the time
and they're like, I know something, I saw something. I
you know, he came into my house or something, because
(20:53):
that's my talent. My talent is talking to people and
also writing stories, and those are the two things that
I can offer. And I went to Maria's family as well,
and I said, is this okay? It was? It was
really scary because I thought, yeah, they could say no, yeah,
and this is not entertaining and we don't want you
(21:14):
to write a book about it, and like, and how
are they Were they cool? They were cool? Yeah, they
were really cool. They're really cool people.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
You know how you were saying when your mum opened
the door her hair kind of like that feeling of
like that Spidey sense of like is it true? Because
I'm asking this because I think you will know the answer,
and you're my crime expert. Yeah, that killers and serial
killers smell different and so like, because there's a famous
story about Dolly Parton getting into the back of a
(21:42):
cab that was driven by a serial killer, like back
in the day, and she was like the.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Smell like his pheromone. The smell was she got straight
out of there. Yeah, wow, I have met a serial killer?
Is this something we spoke about? Yeah, it could be. Yeah,
well I've only I've only met one. Yeah yeah, yeah,
So I didn't find that he smelled different, but he
was a very It was like talking to an alien
(22:10):
because he just did not understand me or why I
do things. And I was like, I don't understand you
and why you do things, Like you know about the
animal rescue. I was telling him about the animal rescue
and he was like why, He said, do you know
we have nine hundred? Because I was telling him about
this gofer that I rescued. He's like, do you know
that we have nine hundred different types of ticks in America?
(22:30):
And I was like, yes, but it needed me. It
was this tiny little golfball girl. Yeah, did you rescue
it in La? Yeah? In La? Yeah? Yeah, of course.
I jumped out of a car and I rescued a
pigeon in La. I think there was a couple of
pigeons everywhere I go because you get an eye for it.
You get an eye for that's not right. That animal
needs help, and you can spot it a mile away.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Do you know out of everybody I've ever interviewed on
this podcast, we're nearly at seven hundred EPs now. The
story that you tell about sitting down with him at
San Quentin, Yeah, I repeat that story.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I'm like, do you.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I'm like, I'm like, there was nothing between them. No,
it was like being in a shark cage with a tiger.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, And you were like, hang on, what if you
go for my victim?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
I said that to him. I can't believe I said that,
because sometimes I just say things yeah, and I go,
what this happens? You know, and people go, why did
you say that? And it might happen now? And the
more nervous I am, the more I.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
And then can you point up to the corner and
be like, something's got a gun?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Like? Yeah? For you? He was. He was amazed. It
was amazing to have met him and then to hear
and read all the research that we have now about
psychopaths and narcissists because he was there in the bulletproof
glass cage with me, sitting across from me, looking at
himself in the reflection of the glass and like doing
(23:52):
his hair. Yeah. And I'm like, you are a seventy
seven year old serial killer. I am here to interview
about the young yah, the young women that you murdered.
I'm not here because I need your hair to look
fabulous so that I can be your next girlfriend. That's
not what's happening right now. But in his mind he
(24:14):
was like, that is what's happening, like clearly, I mean,
of course.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
And didn't you ask about like Andrea or someone one
of the girls.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And he was like, oh V six yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
number five. He flicked his hands. Also, these two women
came in because it was a row of cages and
two cages down there was a woman who had been
in the intake center with me, and she was there
seeing her son because it's her birthday. So she's visiting
(24:43):
her son on death row, like, and he had murdered
his girlfriend because you know, to Lawrence, I was like,
who's that gay? And what did you do? And Lawrence
was like, oh, he murdered his girlfriend and her young
daughter and then set the house on fire. So there's
this little old lady and she's there and she's she
visiting her son on her birthday and buying stuff from
the vending machine on death row. Anyway, where is I
(25:05):
going with this? I love it?
Speaker 1 (25:07):
The way his brain was quite different.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah yeah, and he just you know. Anyway, these two
beautiful women walked past lawyers or something, yeah, dressed up
but they had like heels in that and he heard
their high heels, and he looked and he watched them
go go past, and then he threw me a look
like yeah, like look at those two hotties. And I
was like, really, yeah, yeah, we're talking about the women
(25:31):
that you sexually you know, abused, so like tortured and killed.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
With the things in your toolbox. Yes, the name toolbox killer.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, yes, it was. It was the most horrific and
probably still is the most horrific crime that I had
ever heard of. And I that's the part of the
reason I wanted to speak to him, because I was like,
I have some questions about.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
How I love the why I love the fear You're
It's like, I'll feel the fear and step into it anyway.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Oh you got to I sort of say, don't think
about it too much, you know, always some of these things.
I was saying that to Tim the other day because
I saw this. I saw this tree that someone had
thrown out. It had obviously been a potted tree because
it was all root bound in that and it was
just lying by the bins. And I said to Tim,
We're gonna save that tree. Let's get that tree, put
(26:23):
it in the car, take it home. Put it in
a big pot. We can save it. I don't know
what kind of tree it is. It might be like
a magnolia or something. And Tim said, it's not going
to fit in the car. It's fifteen foot long. And
I said, don't think about it too much. Just just
just get it. Just pull over there, just get it.
Don't think about it.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
That's actually a really That is actually a really good
like mantra for life if you think about it, because
we overthink and talk ourselvesselves out of like dreams and
like your You and I have talked about rejection a
lot as well, because you had two hundred rejections.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Oh yeah, I stopped counting it two hundred because it
was getting depressing.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
And then eventually if they'd call you you because they
get to know you with the manuscripts.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
You cry, right, There is a lot of crying there was.
It's not so much anymore. I had to grow out
of that. Well. You also, I guled a bunch of
times how to stop crying once you've sort of started,
because you know, you feel it in your nose. How
do you? I don't know. If you ever find out,
please let me know frequent she knows frequent Criers club,
(27:24):
and then whatever you're arguing about. If you're in an
argument and you're crying, all of your credibility is gone. Ah,
this is true. Yeah. So I when I start, I
say to myself, don't get sad, get angry, and then
I and then I get angry and that kind of
turns it off. Live hacks. Yes, live hacks did not cry,
(27:45):
but yeah so, and I do that with the rescues
as well. I went on a rescue and it was
a sea eagle and these two oyster fishermen were like,
we're going to have to put you on a boat
and drive you to this island and where this sea
eagle is and it's like bigger than you, and like
how are you gonna what are you going to do?
(28:05):
And I'm there in my launa Jane with my big
tails and my five year old in toe and and
they were like, should we get a net? Should we
get gloves? And I was like no, no, I'm going
to catch it with this towel. And they were like
they're looking at each other like ah, and they said
what they said, what are you going to do if
it does this? What are you going to do if
it does that, and I said, we'll cross that bridge
if you can feel. Oh, okay, let's just go. Let's
(28:27):
just go. What are we waiting for? Let's go. Oh
my goodness.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
So this is why I wanted to get you back
on the pod. Anytime I'm missing Australia, I listen to
your episode one. You have one of my favorite accents,
like you have a very it can get very oft.
It's one of my favorites. And also you have this ability, yeah,
to feel the here and be like, all right, I'm
going to feel it. I'm just gonna go with it though,
(28:52):
and let's just see what happens as opposed to what
if A B and C happened. I like, and I
think we get this decision paralysis.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
You don't get that. No, no. And then also when
bad things happen, I find a way to make them amazing,
Like this woman was really awful to me once a reader.
You know, could people say to me, do you ever
get like mean readers? And what if you get a
one star review? And I say, sit down, children, let
(29:20):
me tell you a tale about this woman who said
this thing to me once. And it was an awful
thing that she said. But I have used it and
told it so many times, and it's so much fun.
I want to tell you. Yeah. So I had just
I had just done a talk with Lee Child. I
had hosted Lee Child, and Lee Child is like the
you know, the brad Pit of the of the book world.
(29:40):
Everyone's like, oh, he walks into a room and everybody
just drops dead. So I got to interview him and
it was a big event. There was one hundred and
fifty people, and I was like, this is my friendly child,
you know. And we had this amazing energy on stage
and I felt like a million bucks. And then I
get down off the stage and this woman comes over
and she goes, oh my god, Candice, Oh, I actually
(30:02):
came here today to see you because I love your
book so much. With this kind of energy, yeah, so
I got sucked right in and I was like, oh,
thank you so much. That makes you so great. And
she goes, accept your last book though, Oh my god.
I hated it so much that I mean I crawled
through the first half of it. And then I gave
(30:23):
it to a friend and I said to my friend, look,
you finish it and tell me what happens. Actually, you
know what, don't bother because I don't care, and so
I didn't know what to do. I was so shocked.
I just matched the energy. So I went, oh, my god,
thank you so much for your honesty. That is very
candid of you, and I will take that under advisement.
And then I just I just walked into the sea.
(30:44):
I just left there and walked into the ocean from
whence I came and I was never seen again. And
just but I have used that story and I've told
that story so many times and people are love. And
I have also told it in front of new authors
(31:06):
who are like, what happens if I get a bad good? Yeah?
With you, and I say to them, one day you
will reach peak in salt. Yeah, and then after that
no one can say anything again like you're pervious. Yeah.
And with the animals, I have been bitten by things
like I've been bitten by a cockatoo. Yeah. And after
(31:26):
you've been bitten by a cockatoon nothing else. You can't
even feel like there's like there's a possum like munching
on my arm. I'm like, yeah, they do that. It's
just part of the you know, it's part of the charm.
And I'm just like just throw get the thing up.
You know, once you've been bitten that hard. So sometimes
in life when I get bitten, I go, oh, you know,
it is.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Such a good I've been called by another nutrition a
disgrace of a nutritionist when I was only twenty two. Yeah,
because of the clothes I wore on television because I
was a bit quirky. Yeah, I wear Converse and like
city law per hair. And I said the same things.
I was like, thanks so much for your feedback.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Off past on.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
But then I was working this mee but I locked
the door, ran out the back, bawled my eyes out.
And then and I was pretty young, and I had
a business part at the time. And he says, it's
all her stuff, it's not yours. Don't even worry. He goes,
do not take it on. You've got to like and
that moment of realizing when someone says something a bit
biting or mean, have been like, that's probably it's probably
that girl's own shit we had nothing to do with,
(32:25):
like obviously for whatever reason.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, it's sometimes it's really obvious that day they just
don't like how happy you are up there. And yeah,
i'd say to Violet, when you go to the dog park,
you know. And in la have you ever been to
the Laurel Canyon dog Park? Yes? And you're walking around
there all the dogs and some of the dogs are
really unfriendly, yeah, and barky and growley and you try
(32:50):
to pat them and they're like not to day, you know,
And I say to where people are just like that,
Like some of them are barkie and growley And you
don't know why they're like that. Maybe they, you know,
have terrible owners, or maybe they're having a bad day
or scared or whatever. But don't try and make friends
with those ones. Go and find a friendly dog. There
(33:10):
are plenty of friendly ones. Don't spend all of your
time trying it. No, no, no, no, there's all a
big variety out there, and you've just walked in. They
don't like the smell of you. Okay, let's get on
to the next. Oh. You know, mate, I feel like
you're a life coach. I have to ask.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
I could talk to you about I could talk to
you all day long, but I have to ask. So
when you write different characters and different point of views,
is the villain the most fun they can be?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
They can be because I get to be my most
selfish and weird, and they're just Usually it's just a narcissist.
It's a person who has no kind of empathy. Sometimes
they're harder because real psychopaths have nothing going on underneath,
Like underneath the Lawrence, he was just empty inside. There
(33:56):
was just this need, the need for tension and love
and what can I get from you? What can I get?
And me, me, me me. It's very centric and it's
not very complicated, like I knew this psychopath. I had
this psychopath in my life. Everyone has one. Yeah, And
she was telling me about how she stole this umbrella
(34:17):
and she was like, look at this leopard print umbrella,
isn't it pretty? And I was like, where'd you get that?
She said, oh, I was just up the machas on
the corner and an old lady walked inside and she
put her umbrella down, so I took it. Isn't it pretty?
And I was like, but didn't you think about that
old lady? And then she comes out and her umbrella's gone.
She's got to walk home in the rain, and then
(34:37):
she doesn't trust people anymore, and maybe she's sad and
maybe her kid gave her that umbrella and like all
these complicated thoughts that you have as a normal person.
She was just like, no, I saw it, and I
wanted it, you know. And so so I'm much more
interested now in villains who they're just a normal person,
(34:59):
but they somehow how end up killing someone or stealing something,
you know, or whatever it is, because then you can
still have all the complex emotions and the wants and
needs and desires and you know, and and all that
kind of thing. Even in this new novel, the one
that's based not true crime, even ends up being sort
(35:21):
of the villain, but he's very understandable and he's very relatable,
and you go, yeah, I could see myself doing that.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, so you as the reader are kind of on
on there, like I feel like, having just finished high Wire,
like Bucks, like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I would say he's our hero.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yeah yeah, but like he has to do some bad
stuff along the way.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah yeah, because to who doesn't want to do bad
stuffy yeah. Now and then though, and it.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Kind of leans he's like it's this all die, Yeah,
like I gotta do I gotta do this bad stuff.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Like it's like I choose your own adventure and you
have that moment while I'm saying to the reader, so
would you, and they're like, yeah, if I yeah, yeah,
sure hopefully hopefully you keep saying if it's a hero,
you keep saying, yeah, I would, I would, I would,
And then you're on board with him the whole time.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
You got me at the end with some little twisties,
though I was like, oh what just people don't think
I'll do it well because I thought maybe not to
give too much. But I was very much intertwined in
potential romance and stuff going on, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
I was like, no, yeah, you romance. Romance is always
the after thought for me. I'm always like, oh, yeah,
I gotta put some romans in there. But I had
two bomb vests in this novel, and I'm like, if
one of them doesn't go off, there's going to be
sheer disappoint get from what is the point of them
(36:43):
being there? So the promise, the promise you always when
you write a novel, you have the promise of the premise.
The premise is you know, that promise is I'm going
to blow something up, you know. And there's a couple
of good explosions in there.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Quite a few. I have to say. How I found
out about this book. Was the yoga studio where I
teach yoga in La is directly across the road from
Apple TV. Yeah, yeah, and this beautiful yogi came in
and we would always just like chit chat about yoga,
like you know, just we live not near the yoga street.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
We both live near each other in Lace.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
We'll talk about like our favorite like coffee shops on
the other side of town and stuff. And then he
goes to me one day you're Australian and I'm like yeah,
and he's like, this is a long shot, but you
don't know, Candace Fox to you what, I actually got
a podcaster into authors and Candas has been one of
my all time favorite interviews. And he's like, really, that's
(37:41):
so funny. And he's like, look, I'm really trying to
option a book right now. And I go what, yeah,
yeah yeah, And he's like, can you put a good
word in for me? I was like, I'm like literally
teaching yin Yo candle Light yin yoga in la Yeah.
And I was like sure, a DM, you're on insta yo.
This really strange thing has just happened, and you're like
(38:03):
is that true. You're like, I'm looking at the contract.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Now right now, Yeah, that week they came in hard.
Apple came in hard. When we had another party who
were in it for that novel, and when we had
the Apple TV and Ridley Scott meeting and it was
Ridley Scott. Yes, we're talking Gladiator. I know, Aliens, I know.
(38:28):
I try to drop it as casually as I can,
because you don't want to be like, oh my god.
You know, you play it casual like, oh, that kind
of stuff happens to me all the time. But hang
on to me, isn't.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
One of the reasons you started writing because you loved
Martin Scorsese. So I feel like, yes, the fact that
you're now you are.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
A huge fangirl. I don't even remember that about myself.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Bola, knowing that Ridley Scott is like, yeah, hold, like,
can we just take a effing moment here.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Everybody take a break. Everybody get your coffees, go outside,
touch the grass. It's also, yeah, not.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Two or three years ago, you invited me to the
premiere the screen for Tropo Trompo, which is Crimson Lake
in a TV series which I believe is doing its
third season now.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
It's the third. I'm the last person that they tell
anything to. So I've heard that. I mean there's scripts written.
I've heard that Amazon FREEV though where they were showing it,
has dropped all of their scripted stuff except down one
though great. So I don't know. I don't know. It's
the TV and film stuff just goes on all the time.
(39:35):
I've got stuff with MGM, I've got stuff with Disney,
I've got stuff NBC. The announcement went out today, I
didn't know that announced what was going to happen. I
was like, oh, okay, there it is somebody with Fire?
All right? Yeah, Fire with Fire and smokes You're amazing.
Oh thank you, you're amazing.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Hang on, redly fucking Scott what how good.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Would it be to see it? And and you know
the one today for Fire with Fire they have an actor,
they have a writer, they have a show runner, they
have a streamer, they have a network. So those are
all the things you have to get signed up to
be greenlit. But then in my life, because I'm all
the way down the bottom of the chain, I'm going,
(40:20):
is it happening? What have you heard? What I'm texting?
When Tropo was happening, I got Thomas Jane's number. He
gave me his number, and I'm like, what are you hearing?
And he's like, well, I'm hearing this. I'm hearing that.
What are you hearing? And it's all lumbers. Nobody has
the complete picture. So he's saying, I think I have
a flight book for next week. Oh is that true?
(40:41):
And then I've got to tell you my story about
about going to the set to do my cameo. I
went to the set and there's two hundred people there.
Every time they film something, there's like fifty people on
the screen, one hundred and fifty like in the camera
view and there's one hundred and fifty people just stand
and around. I'm like, what does that guy do? What
(41:01):
is he doing? What is that guy do? And everyone
does something different. So there's two hundred people there. And
TJ was out there and he had this scene where
someone's coming in with an axe and he has to
grab the axe and go, no, Max, don't do it,
don't do it, Max, like that, Yeah, that's how he talks,
and that's my time's Jane depression. And anyway, he has
to wrestle a axe off. I'm standing there and I'm like, wow,
(41:25):
this is happening. I'm watching my show and that's my character.
He's dressed as my character. Wow, this is amazing. Wow. Anyway,
they do action and he goes, no, no, Max, don't
do it, and then cut and then he turns around
to me and he goes, what do you think? And
I went, oh, well, I thought it was really good.
It looked really real, you know. And then anyway, so
(41:47):
the director that he was actually looking at, who was
standing right behind me, leans out with his headset on
and he goes, oh, I also thought it was good,
and I was like, no, oh my god, I just
and everyone was like two hundred people were like, but wait,
wait that the best thing is that they ran it again.
(42:08):
And then you know, Max, Max no, cut and TJ
turns around and he goes, Candace, I gotta know what
did you think? I was like, Ah, your last tape
was better.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Do you ever think about or want to do screenwriting,
like for any of your adaptations.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
When Violet was a baby, a newborn baby, I was
breastfeeding her at night and I'm up all night nothing
to do. And you know, when you're breastfeeding a baby,
you're staring at them in wonderment oh, the universe and
my child for about thirty seconds, and then you get
your phone out and you go so on my phone,
(42:49):
I wrote a screenplay. I downloaded the final draft ap
and I wrote it.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
And I wrote a horror movie amazing Yes, and everyone
hated it. I said it to a my agent and
my TV film agent at that time, and they were like, wow,
this sucks, and I was.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Like, Okay, no screen adding for me. I'll stick to
my day job. Oh wow, the novels. Yeah. But so
I have done screenwriting, and it's just a medium. I
mean I enjoyed it in the way that you can
kind of go a warehouse and then that's it. You've
got the whole warehouse, whereas with a novel, you have
to go the warehouse squatted in the middle, like you know,
(43:27):
all the animal shedding its skin. They approached from the
south a gentle breeze, and you're like.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I've got a new one for you, friend, bloody voice
acting on these persons. I literally could talk to you
until the cows come home, all the.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Same to you.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
I have to ask the final question. And I know,
like people with dreams listen to this pod, and I
know you like run courses and mentor people and all
that kind of thing as well, Like what if someone's
got a dream, They're like, I've got this side, I
want to write a book.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
What advice do you have? Do not listen to anyone
who says that you can't do it, or what if this?
What if this happens, or what if that happens to it,
or like yeah, any of that negative talk. People say, oh,
I could never do that because I love my child
too much and I want to spend time with her instead,
and then they look at you like you're being selfish
(44:23):
or whatever it is. Don't listen to any negativity. Only
listen to positivity, and then be wary of like firing
out of the cannon with a dream, because then you'll
hit the ground. Like you're like, I'm going to do
this for six hours a day, five days a week.
You know, it's better to be consistent longer. Do Yeah,
(44:45):
do one thing every single day that gets you further
towards your dream. Yeah. Yeah. Study if it's a novel
in particular, study study, study. So I study because people
say to me all the time, oh, I'm on the
seventh draft of my ninth novel, and I've been rejected
eight thousand times and I go, oh, okay, So like,
have you ever taken a class in creative writing? They're like,
(45:08):
oh no, no, I've read books so I can write.
I mean I've read them. That's all you need to do, right,
And I'm like, you're like, I taught myself the violin
and I want to be a concerto violinist. I've never
taken a class and everyone hates how my violin music sounds.
It's like, go and take just take one class.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
That's what I say about actors in acting school in LA,
They're like, the first thing that you can do is
just get into a class, yes, because it's.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Not just like oh well this is loll acting right now.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
It's like you actually have to get your chops up. Yes,
you have to learn the skill.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
It's exact same with I imagine with book. And we
have great schools here in Australia, like great courses.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
We're so spoiled and you will start getting cut down
by people because I think with writers, people get you know,
their mom to read it, and they get their beta
readers who are other authors, you know, all their friends,
and they'll say lovely things. There's nothing like having a
teacher give you a pass and litter that piece of
(46:08):
paper with red crosses, and like, I had a lecture
and I used to sit with him and he just
used to slash our whole pages and be like this sucks.
This sucks. You know. So when you finally do make
it and already and yeah, and someone says to you
the entire front half of this novel has to be rewritten,
you go, oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
I studied kids fiction, creative kids fiction, running and I
wrote this whole story. Someone says, with aucle whales around
and they're like, kill it now, it's an apex predator.
You're not going to be able to get around that.
Kids are going to get scared, and they're like, you've
talked about death in the first page. I was like,
kids are going to freak out.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
And I was like, oh, so I've done.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
This completely like yes, completely wrong, la la, But just throw.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Away any embarrassment of having done it completely wrong, because
you go, oh, well, I'm a human being. There you go.
People get things wrong sometimes.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Everyone says your first draft is always going to be
a bit of a mess. Anyway, your first crack at
something it's gonna be a bit of a mess, whether
it's anything creative, and so I think I love your
resilience and I love your Oh yeah, this is scary.
I'm just gonna do it anyway. I'll think about it later.
I think that is like if we can live like that? Yes, imagine,
yeah right, yeah for sure, Candice Fox, you flip an unreal.
(47:22):
I can't wait to have you on the pot again.
I cannot wait to see high way I come to life.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Thank Holy Mac, Thank you for reading. Thank you for
having me. I can't wait. I don't want to leave.
Can I just stay?
Speaker 1 (47:33):
We're gonna do a hot seat right now, my friend.
Thank you so much. All Right, that's a wrap on
another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always, thank you to
our guests, and let's continue the conversation on Instagram. I'm
at Yamo Lullaberry.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
This potty my word.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
For podcast is available on all streaming platforms.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
I'd love it.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
You could subscribe, rape and comment, and of course spread
the love.
Get a I'm Lala Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter
and professional overshaer. This podcast is all about celebrating failure
because I believe it's a chance for us to learn,
grow and face our blind spots. Each week I'll interview
a different guest about their highs as well as they're lows,
(00:26):
all in a bid to inspire us to fearlessly fail.
Welcome back to the Potter Rooney Candas Fox. Now. Candace
is Australia's best selling crime fiction author and if you
ask me, she's a bit of a legend. She's been
on the pod before. So if you want to go
(00:46):
back and listen to her first chat on flously Failing,
it's episode one hundred and five. This chat we had
a couple of months ago in Sydney. Candace is all heart.
She's written a mazillion books. Literally, the books are also
absolute Paige Schurners and I say this with my hand
(01:07):
on my heart. Until I booked Candace Fox to come
on the pod the first time, I'd never read crime
fiction ever before, and Candace, you got me hooked. So
the reason why we got to chat again in Sydney
is because I'm just a fangirl like, to be really
honest with you, She's got so many great books out there.
And living in La I randomly ran into someone from
(01:28):
Apple whilst working in a yoga studio and they said
to me, you wouldn't know Candace Fox, would you by chance?
And I was like, yes, actually I would know Candace Fox.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Anyway. Cut a long story short.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Candace Fox has written this incredible book that we talk
about on today's pod called high Wire. Apple has got
the rights to this book and Ridley Scott, yes you
heard that right, Ridley Scott has signed on as a
producer of this incredible TV show with Apple. Now we're
talking Gladiator Aliens the release Scott. So, Candace, you are incredible.
(02:05):
You're also insanely humble and just an all round legend.
So to you the listener, I hope you love this chat.
Candace is absolutely wonderful. If you are a writer, if
you're a creative, if you've got any kind of a dream,
this episode is for you. Candace never gave up when
she got rejection letters at the very start of her career,
(02:27):
and now she is literally one of Australia's most celebrated authors.
So enjoy the wonderful Candace Fox. Candace Fox, Welcome back
to the pod, my friend.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I'm so happy to be here. I've been waiting for this.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
I honestly I so First of all of the listener,
I'm going to say, Australia's most successful and kindest, nicest,
bestest crime fiction author, welcome to the Pod. Award winning
New York Times bestselling absolute legend have an author.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I'll take that as an introduction. I like that.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I mean, it's probably not the US, but I'm going
to make that my official bio from now. Honestly, honestly,
I I think of you so often because I live
in la as you know, and if I ever walk
into like an amazing books because I feel like Americans
are obsessed with crime.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah they should be everywhere.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I was going to say, a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Comes out of there, right they do? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Do you know.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I've got a friend.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I live close to the Hollywood Hills and he's like,
he lives in Brentwood and he's like, I'm not going
to visit you.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And I was like why and he's like murder.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Like He's like all the dark shit happens towards there.
And then I researched and took you would love this.
I took a psychic around with me to murder sites.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Oh yeah, yeah in.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
LA and they're all that way. They're like Glen Dale
and Los Feelers. There's like murder mansions where people.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Go like, you can do the tour. You can do
the bus tour. Let's go from spot to but yeah,
go to you know, the Charles Manson ranch, go to
the house there. You can do the OJ Simpson thing.
You can go all the different places and you just
get on a bus and it's the there's also a
murder museum there. Have you done all this? Oh? Of course,
(04:16):
of course. I think I did most of it on
my honeymoon. And yeah, I love how crime in LA
is because it's the beautiful. It's the amazing opulence of
people's houses and the extreme wealth, you know. And then
next right next door to that is extreme posit, poverty
(04:36):
and crime and people are lying in the streets. And
when I moved to LA for a year, I said
to my husband, I want to do three things. I
want to call nine one one and I want to
yeah yeah, and I want to be part in a
separate incident. I want to be part of a crowd
and something happens and I go somebody gone nine one one,
(05:00):
And then I want to be pulled over by a
highway sheriff and I want to roll the window down
and I want to say what seems to be the
problem officer. And I had done all three of those
things in the first six months, and I was like,
I need new life goals. So what you call nine
on one for? So we were driving through la we
lived in Hollywood Hills as well for a bit. We're
(05:21):
just driving through LA's this a Sunday afternoon and we
come up to this intersection and there was a homeless
woman in the middle of the intersection and she had
two hammers and she was just swinging them at cars.
As we drove past it.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
You're like, we have machety guy on the corner of
our street.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, right out with Well, I called nine one one
and I was like, this is what I'm seeing, this
is what's happening. And she said, oh, has she actually
hurt anyone yet? And I said no, but I feel
like that's in our near future. She's swinging two hammers
in the middle of an intersection and the operator goes, oh,
I'll send a car like.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
I was like, oh, so nonchalant.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah. She was like, we've got a mass shooting over here,
we got a bus rolled over, we got a hostage situation.
You're worried about some chick with hammers, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I mean, I feel like La would be a field
day for you, like in the mount like in the
time that I like, I'll be driving in the middle
of the day in like West La, which is like
really pretty affluent, and I've seen like people held at
gunpoint at the back of their head, like midday.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, out of Ralphs, just after breakfast. It is, everyone's
had their breakfast and they're like, let's cram it up,
field up, let's go and rub a place. Yeah yeah, yeah.
And it's it's a beautiful city. So it's right on
the water and it's beautiful one day perfectly, next it's
trying to be Queensland, and then yeah, there are people
(06:48):
running and I loved it. I loved it. I would
move there in a heartbeat. People say to me, why
do you love La. I'm like, because it's just everything
and in the hills living up there. I was making
one morning and I look out my window and there's
a coyote across the street waiting to cross the street.
He was like waiting for the cars to get past.
All right, tick tic tick, and he goes wandering across
(07:10):
the street. I'm like, there's a wild coyote outside.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Oh yeah, you get very used to seeing wild coyote
and raccoons.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, and there up there in the Have you.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Seen any rattle snakes yet? No, I've seen five.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Oh wow. Yeah, I'm a hiker.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Ah like the rattler's scare me because they've got different
types of poison that are real bad.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
What they're the three nasty part.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Oh you would know this.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
You rescue animals, I do. I love you know what
I've got at the moment home because I bring home
all the babies because my daughter Violet is five, So
whenever I see baby something or other, I go, all right,
I'll care for that for a while. And I brought
home this Eastern long neck turtle because the notes said,
you know, has been found in an apartment complex. No
(07:52):
one knows who it belongs to, so it's been brought
into a vet and it's as big as a two
dollar coin. It is the it's like a pokemon. What
does it eat? You know what, it's getting the best
food ever at my house. It's eating barramunday. I got
a slice of frozen barrel munday and every day I
chop up like a quarter of a teaspoons worth. Yeah,
(08:14):
and I put it in. But this thing is swimming
around living it. Let's live it its best life. I'm
just gonna raise it up until it's big enough so
that when I put it back into the wild, a
bird doesn't just yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
It's got a little bit of a shell and everything.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
But Violet calls everything Annabelle. So no matter like we
we rescue roosters or we bring home like a go anna.
And I said, what are you going to call? It?
Is annabel And then she then she'll go, do you
remember when we had Annabelle. I'm like, what which Annabelle?
The male peaking duck Annabelle, or the rooster Annabelle, or
(08:50):
the goanna Annabelle or the turtle abel Which Annabelle? I
wanted to call it two buck because it's only as
big as but she said, no, it's Anabelle. You're gonna laugh.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
My dad's a vets, So we would he would bring
home animals and I would name them all Bambi or Thumper,
all of them, all of them guinea pigs, dogs, cats,
They were either Bambi or Thumber.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
How funny. I love the attitude. It's like I found
a good name. Stick with it. Yeah, yeap, just ride
that horse right into the ground. Yeah really commit? Yeah? Commit?
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Okay, friend, what book are you up to now?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I'm not even gonna bother.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I started watching recent interviews and I was like, I
think just on twenty two. And then you're telling you
about a new book now, and I'm like, I think.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
That the one I'm working on right now is twenty two,
because actually last year I wrote half of a book. Yeah,
and then I threw it away. I just said, no,
this sucks. I didn't like it. No, I didn't like it.
Spent six months on it, wrote forty thousand words, and
I went, nu, what did you like it? The bin
(09:49):
it was said on a cruise ship. It was halfway.
It was a cruise ship and it was a fishing boat.
So these two people fall off a cruise ship and
a few boat picks them up and they're like, oh,
thank god, we're saved. And then the fishing boat people
are like oh yeah, No, we're having engine trouble and
we can't get any calms. And then the two people
(10:11):
start going vibes. Are we Was this all a setup?
Like yeah, are we hostages? And then everyone on the
cruise ship is like where are they? You know? So
it was a good concept, but it was probably a
good concept for a small show, but not a novel,
like it's ninety thousand words?
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Did you research sharks? I would have been I would
have been like feeding people.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yes, probably the stuff that I end up googling. I
love your brain.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
This is why I love I was like, we could
go down so many rabbit holes, my friend obviously, Yeah,
but I actually so, I've got so many questions.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
First of all, okay, I have I think I said
this is when you came in. I reckon. I've read
eight or nine of your books. I'm a proper fan
fan you fangirl. Yeah, I've got a peece for you
to sign.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
These copies I'm holding in my hand after But I
finished high Wire in the wee hours of the morning today.
Oh good, And I must say reading high Wire driving
from Byron Bay to Sydney because of the setting, I
was like, have I picked the right setting to read
where I could fully imagine this happening to myself.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. And then it's a good road
trip book.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Oh, it's such a good road trip book. And then
I read Two Sisters Murder Investigations. Yeah, Holy Matt, Well
that's all la so you would have loved that.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, bit of Glendale. Oh, I was like, holy Matt,
she knows all the spots. Yeah, I know the good cafes.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
And this is where I'm going to ask you some
nerdy author stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Do it?
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Is it hard because you write from different characters pov
so for listener point of view, so it's not always
through one person?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yes? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Maybe When I read Crimson Lake, is that one person's
point of views at both of them?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
No, it's not, no, because it's you get ted his
first person, and then you get flashbacks, which I think
a third person, and then you get the perspective. Don't
you get the killer's perspective or something in that? Yeah?
I think you. Yeah, God, that's a long time ago.
It's a good though. I always I always did more
than one character's perspective because I get bored OF's one person. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Is it hard to like be like, or do you
like when you're right? Do you like have to like
color courts?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Are you like?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
All right, there's that person.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
It's such an ocd P. A lot of people are
a lot of writers are I just went to a
two men writers retreat with a friend of mine, Anna Down's,
and she had her little beautiful post it notes and
her journals and all of this paraphernalia talking my language, yeah,
spread out in front of her, which is funny. And
then she just sat and she wrote and she worked,
(12:54):
and she said, you are so funny to watch, Candice,
because I would be there and I'll do a big
spurt of writing and she looks like, and I'm gone,
and I'm out there and I'm just being like Mofusser,
I'm just looking at the horizon, you know, And then
more hammering of the keys, and then she hears me,
and you know, because it was my holiday house and
I'm standing a wall and painting it and then more
(13:16):
hammering of the keys, and it's just totally different people. Yeah,
but no, when I go from one character to another,
I feel like more like I'm sitting in their body
and I'm being them. So at the moment it's these
two guys, Russell and Evan, And when I'm Russell, I'm like,
because he's quite an angry guy, and Evan is more
like sort of weak and emotional and like he's he's
(13:39):
having a really hard time, so he's like, what am
I going to do? You know? And so I'm I'm
being this guy, and then I'm being this guy, and
I'm being this guy. It's more of a Yeah, it's
like a suit that I wear. Do you hear a
voice in your head? Like?
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, because your voice just changed quite dramatically.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah. He's ultra Russell is ultramat skill and angry and skeptical,
and he's always slicing people up and people are afraid
of him.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
He's a killer.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
No, No, he's the hero. Oh I love an antie villain.
You're different. That's why I'm enjoying writing him so much,
because he's a very different kind of hero. He's hard
to get on with and people are afraid of him.
So I'm really enjoying those moments where he's not at work,
(14:29):
he's with his daughter and you get to see he's
just like he loves her and she doesn't put up
with any of his crap and you know, and then
he goes back to work and he's like, why didn't
you do that? So fun? But yeah, it's kind of
a secret. It's a secret that I'm sharing with the reader,
which says, you know, you know that he has these
(14:51):
two different sides, but nobody else knows. So hopefully people
will enjoy that, you know. But yeah, yeah, that's the
book I'm running right now. So that's not out for years,
So everybody forget about that. Did you say it's based
on true crime? It is? Do you want to hear
this story?
Speaker 1 (15:08):
This?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Sign me up. This is the wildest story ever, and
I haven't started telling it yet, so you'll be the
first people to hear it. So what happened was everybody
knows I have quite an eccentric mother, right, long story short.
She name changed right yeah, yeah, ocean mermaid, that's right. Yeah,
and she fostered one hundred and fifty five kids while
I was growing up. She's kind of a hoarder, all
(15:29):
that kind of stuff. So she when I was a kid,
I was maybe ten, she was leaving me at home
alone for the first time ever, right, and she said,
you know, whatever you do, don't open the door because
when I was a kid, I was home alone once
I opened the door on a guy and ended up
being a killer. What yeah, legit, yeah, legit and sos.
(15:50):
As a ten year old, I went, I didn't read
much further into it. I went, oh, okay, all right,
I will yeah, I imagine that's what it sounded like
when I was ten. Okay, little American, Okay, mom. Anyway,
so I'm an adult now, you know. And Violet was
one and a half years old, and she's running around
(16:10):
the house in a She's just wearing a nappy and
a top hat, and she had a little briefcase and
running around and I said to Tim, she looks like
a little daughter door salesman. And I thought to myself,
like a drawer. It was like a drawer popped open
in my brain. And I said, my mum told me
a story when I was a kid about a daughter
door salesman coming to the door when she was a
(16:31):
kid and she was home alone and shaping the door,
and he ended up being a killer. And Tim was like, yeah,
that sounds that's on brandy, and he just went back
to his crossword. He had no further questions because he
was late that sounds right. I called her up and
I said, I have this story that just came up
in my brain that you told me when I was
a kid. Was that just bullshit? Like yeah, you know?
(16:52):
And she goes, no, No, I was seventeen. I was
studying for my HC. I was home alone. A guy
knocks on the door and he says, h, I am
an encyclopedia salesman. I'm going door to door selling encyclopedia.
Can I come in and talk to you about them?
And she was like she had the wooden door open
and the screen door locked, and she she said, all
(17:14):
the hairs on my body stood on end. She said.
She thought to herself, why isn't he carrying anything? Like
he doesn't have a briefcase, he doesn't have pamphlets, he
doesn't have encyclopedia. And he was just dressed like casually,
like you know, let me and my bow host. He
was also wearing a bahoe. So she goes, oh, you know,
(17:38):
I can't really because my dad's here. Hey dad, you know,
and pretended her dad was here. She knew something, Yeah,
she knew, and then he turned and walked away. Anyway,
two women had been murdered in her area one just
the week before. So we and that girl went to
her school, right, who's a student teacher at her school
two blocks over and one week earlier, right, And I
(17:58):
said to her, okay, I said, what are the names
of the victims? And she told me and I said, mum,
this is unsolved. Oh there's a million dollar cold case.
It's a very famous case in Australia. And I said,
did you tell anyone at the time, And she goes, nah, well,
I really wasn't supposed to open the door and I
would have got in trouble.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
I was like, oh, for God's sake, holy mad Yeah, So.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I went down this huge rabbit hole. So there's two women,
Lynnette White and Maria Smith. They were murdered in Cujie
by this guy who was going door to door. They
initially thought it was a guy going door to door
because when Lynette was murdered, there was a cup that
was smashed, you know, so they're sort of saying, ah,
has it come in and asked for a cup of water,
(18:45):
you know. And then for Maria it was the same thing.
There was a cup smashed and there was some assaults
in the area where a guy was going around and
sort of talking his way in and saying, oh, I've
just come to do some work on house next door,
and he'd look at their mail and get their names
and say, oh, I just want to leave him a note.
(19:05):
Can I have a piece of paper and a pen?
And he come in and assault these women and a
twelve year old got away from him at the time.
So it was like, is it the same guys at
two separate guys? Anyway, long story short, I tried to
get a podcast up, it didn't work, and then I'm
sitting around and I thought, I want to write a
novel about this. Yeah, but I want to write a
(19:27):
novel about it and talk about it. I want to
talk about these cases and where they came from. But
I don't want to cause any further pain to these families.
I don't want them to be there. And they hear
it on the radio and they go, oh thanks, yeah, like,
and you've also you've written a fiction book about it.
How nice? Yeah? Got it? So I thought, oh, fuck it,
I'm just going to contact the victims' families. So I
(19:49):
just wrote to this guy, Paul White, his wife was murdered,
and I said, you know, I wrote to him and
I said, can we talk and he I didn't say,
what about And then he calls me and then I'm like, okay,
so this is what happened, not bl blah blah blah.
And I told him and I said, and I'm writing
a book, and I don't want you to think that
I am making your wife's murder into entertainment. And it's
(20:12):
not going to be like Dexter. You know, it's going
to be a really thoughtful and soulful thing. And I
hope to use the promo to bring attention to your
wife's care. And he was like, I reopen. I think
that we should have coffee. And I said, okay, let's
have coffee, you know, and so we did. And so
they're fully on board. So I'm going to have the novel.
(20:32):
I'm going to have the novel, and I'm going to
at the end, I'm going to have like an afterward
which says about the real cases, and hopefully I can
build awareness back around. Maybe there's someone out there like
my mum who just never said anything at the time
and they're like, I know something, I saw something. I
you know, he came into my house or something, because
(20:53):
that's my talent. My talent is talking to people and
also writing stories, and those are the two things that
I can offer. And I went to Maria's family as well,
and I said, is this okay? It was? It was
really scary because I thought, yeah, they could say no, yeah,
and this is not entertaining and we don't want you
(21:14):
to write a book about it, and like, and how
are they Were they cool? They were cool? Yeah, they
were really cool. They're really cool people.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
You know how you were saying when your mum opened
the door her hair kind of like that feeling of
like that Spidey sense of like is it true? Because
I'm asking this because I think you will know the answer,
and you're my crime expert. Yeah, that killers and serial
killers smell different and so like, because there's a famous
story about Dolly Parton getting into the back of a
(21:42):
cab that was driven by a serial killer, like back
in the day, and she was like the.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Smell like his pheromone. The smell was she got straight
out of there. Yeah, wow, I have met a serial killer?
Is this something we spoke about? Yeah, it could be. Yeah,
well I've only I've only met one. Yeah yeah, yeah,
So I didn't find that he smelled different, but he
was a very It was like talking to an alien
(22:10):
because he just did not understand me or why I
do things. And I was like, I don't understand you
and why you do things, Like you know about the
animal rescue. I was telling him about the animal rescue
and he was like why, He said, do you know
we have nine hundred? Because I was telling him about
this gofer that I rescued. He's like, do you know
that we have nine hundred different types of ticks in America?
(22:30):
And I was like, yes, but it needed me. It
was this tiny little golfball girl. Yeah, did you rescue
it in La? Yeah? In La? Yeah? Yeah, of course.
I jumped out of a car and I rescued a
pigeon in La. I think there was a couple of
pigeons everywhere I go because you get an eye for it.
You get an eye for that's not right. That animal
needs help, and you can spot it a mile away.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Do you know out of everybody I've ever interviewed on
this podcast, we're nearly at seven hundred EPs now. The
story that you tell about sitting down with him at
San Quentin, Yeah, I repeat that story.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I'm like, do you.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I'm like, I'm like, there was nothing between them. No,
it was like being in a shark cage with a tiger.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, And you were like, hang on, what if you
go for my victim?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
I said that to him. I can't believe I said that,
because sometimes I just say things yeah, and I go,
what this happens? You know, and people go, why did
you say that? And it might happen now? And the
more nervous I am, the more I.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
And then can you point up to the corner and
be like, something's got a gun?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Like? Yeah? For you? He was. He was amazed. It
was amazing to have met him and then to hear
and read all the research that we have now about
psychopaths and narcissists because he was there in the bulletproof
glass cage with me, sitting across from me, looking at
himself in the reflection of the glass and like doing
(23:52):
his hair. Yeah. And I'm like, you are a seventy
seven year old serial killer. I am here to interview
about the young yah, the young women that you murdered.
I'm not here because I need your hair to look
fabulous so that I can be your next girlfriend. That's
not what's happening right now. But in his mind he
(24:14):
was like, that is what's happening, like clearly, I mean,
of course.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
And didn't you ask about like Andrea or someone one
of the girls.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And he was like, oh V six yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
number five. He flicked his hands. Also, these two women
came in because it was a row of cages and
two cages down there was a woman who had been
in the intake center with me, and she was there
seeing her son because it's her birthday. So she's visiting
(24:43):
her son on death row, like, and he had murdered
his girlfriend because you know, to Lawrence, I was like,
who's that gay? And what did you do? And Lawrence
was like, oh, he murdered his girlfriend and her young
daughter and then set the house on fire. So there's
this little old lady and she's there and she's she
visiting her son on her birthday and buying stuff from
the vending machine on death row. Anyway, where is I
(25:05):
going with this? I love it?
Speaker 1 (25:07):
The way his brain was quite different.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah yeah, and he just you know. Anyway, these two
beautiful women walked past lawyers or something, yeah, dressed up
but they had like heels in that and he heard
their high heels, and he looked and he watched them
go go past, and then he threw me a look
like yeah, like look at those two hotties. And I
was like, really, yeah, yeah, we're talking about the women
(25:31):
that you sexually you know, abused, so like tortured and killed.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
With the things in your toolbox. Yes, the name toolbox killer.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, yes, it was. It was the most horrific and
probably still is the most horrific crime that I had
ever heard of. And I that's the part of the
reason I wanted to speak to him, because I was like,
I have some questions about.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
How I love the why I love the fear You're
It's like, I'll feel the fear and step into it anyway.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Oh you got to I sort of say, don't think
about it too much, you know, always some of these things.
I was saying that to Tim the other day because
I saw this. I saw this tree that someone had
thrown out. It had obviously been a potted tree because
it was all root bound in that and it was
just lying by the bins. And I said to Tim,
We're gonna save that tree. Let's get that tree, put
(26:23):
it in the car, take it home. Put it in
a big pot. We can save it. I don't know
what kind of tree it is. It might be like
a magnolia or something. And Tim said, it's not going
to fit in the car. It's fifteen foot long. And
I said, don't think about it too much. Just just
just get it. Just pull over there, just get it.
Don't think about it.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
That's actually a really That is actually a really good
like mantra for life if you think about it, because
we overthink and talk ourselvesselves out of like dreams and
like your You and I have talked about rejection a
lot as well, because you had two hundred rejections.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Oh yeah, I stopped counting it two hundred because it
was getting depressing.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
And then eventually if they'd call you you because they
get to know you with the manuscripts.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
You cry, right, There is a lot of crying there was.
It's not so much anymore. I had to grow out
of that. Well. You also, I guled a bunch of
times how to stop crying once you've sort of started,
because you know, you feel it in your nose. How
do you? I don't know. If you ever find out,
please let me know frequent she knows frequent Criers club,
(27:24):
and then whatever you're arguing about. If you're in an
argument and you're crying, all of your credibility is gone. Ah,
this is true. Yeah. So I when I start, I
say to myself, don't get sad, get angry, and then
I and then I get angry and that kind of
turns it off. Live hacks. Yes, live hacks did not cry,
(27:45):
but yeah so, and I do that with the rescues
as well. I went on a rescue and it was
a sea eagle and these two oyster fishermen were like,
we're going to have to put you on a boat
and drive you to this island and where this sea
eagle is and it's like bigger than you, and like
how are you gonna what are you going to do?
(28:05):
And I'm there in my launa Jane with my big
tails and my five year old in toe and and
they were like, should we get a net? Should we
get gloves? And I was like no, no, I'm going
to catch it with this towel. And they were like
they're looking at each other like ah, and they said
what they said, what are you going to do if
it does this? What are you going to do if
it does that, and I said, we'll cross that bridge
if you can feel. Oh, okay, let's just go. Let's
(28:27):
just go. What are we waiting for? Let's go. Oh
my goodness.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
So this is why I wanted to get you back
on the pod. Anytime I'm missing Australia, I listen to
your episode one. You have one of my favorite accents,
like you have a very it can get very oft.
It's one of my favorites. And also you have this ability, yeah,
to feel the here and be like, all right, I'm
going to feel it. I'm just gonna go with it though,
(28:52):
and let's just see what happens as opposed to what
if A B and C happened. I like, and I
think we get this decision paralysis.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
You don't get that. No, no. And then also when
bad things happen, I find a way to make them amazing,
Like this woman was really awful to me once a reader.
You know, could people say to me, do you ever
get like mean readers? And what if you get a
one star review? And I say, sit down, children, let
(29:20):
me tell you a tale about this woman who said
this thing to me once. And it was an awful
thing that she said. But I have used it and
told it so many times, and it's so much fun.
I want to tell you. Yeah. So I had just
I had just done a talk with Lee Child. I
had hosted Lee Child, and Lee Child is like the
you know, the brad Pit of the of the book world.
(29:40):
Everyone's like, oh, he walks into a room and everybody
just drops dead. So I got to interview him and
it was a big event. There was one hundred and
fifty people, and I was like, this is my friendly child,
you know. And we had this amazing energy on stage
and I felt like a million bucks. And then I
get down off the stage and this woman comes over
and she goes, oh my god, Candice, Oh, I actually
(30:02):
came here today to see you because I love your
book so much. With this kind of energy, yeah, so
I got sucked right in and I was like, oh,
thank you so much. That makes you so great. And
she goes, accept your last book though, Oh my god.
I hated it so much that I mean I crawled
through the first half of it. And then I gave
(30:23):
it to a friend and I said to my friend, look,
you finish it and tell me what happens. Actually, you
know what, don't bother because I don't care, and so
I didn't know what to do. I was so shocked.
I just matched the energy. So I went, oh, my god,
thank you so much for your honesty. That is very
candid of you, and I will take that under advisement.
And then I just I just walked into the sea.
(30:44):
I just left there and walked into the ocean from
whence I came and I was never seen again. And
just but I have used that story and I've told
that story so many times and people are love. And
I have also told it in front of new authors
(31:06):
who are like, what happens if I get a bad good? Yeah?
With you, and I say to them, one day you
will reach peak in salt. Yeah, and then after that
no one can say anything again like you're pervious. Yeah.
And with the animals, I have been bitten by things
like I've been bitten by a cockatoo. Yeah. And after
(31:26):
you've been bitten by a cockatoon nothing else. You can't
even feel like there's like there's a possum like munching
on my arm. I'm like, yeah, they do that. It's
just part of the you know, it's part of the charm.
And I'm just like just throw get the thing up.
You know, once you've been bitten that hard. So sometimes
in life when I get bitten, I go, oh, you know,
it is.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Such a good I've been called by another nutrition a
disgrace of a nutritionist when I was only twenty two. Yeah,
because of the clothes I wore on television because I
was a bit quirky. Yeah, I wear Converse and like
city law per hair. And I said the same things.
I was like, thanks so much for your feedback.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Off past on.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
But then I was working this mee but I locked
the door, ran out the back, bawled my eyes out.
And then and I was pretty young, and I had
a business part at the time. And he says, it's
all her stuff, it's not yours. Don't even worry. He goes,
do not take it on. You've got to like and
that moment of realizing when someone says something a bit
biting or mean, have been like, that's probably it's probably
that girl's own shit we had nothing to do with,
(32:25):
like obviously for whatever reason.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, it's sometimes it's really obvious that day they just
don't like how happy you are up there. And yeah,
i'd say to Violet, when you go to the dog park,
you know. And in la have you ever been to
the Laurel Canyon dog Park? Yes? And you're walking around
there all the dogs and some of the dogs are
really unfriendly, yeah, and barky and growley and you try
(32:50):
to pat them and they're like not to day, you know,
And I say to where people are just like that,
Like some of them are barkie and growley And you
don't know why they're like that. Maybe they, you know,
have terrible owners, or maybe they're having a bad day
or scared or whatever. But don't try and make friends
with those ones. Go and find a friendly dog. There
(33:10):
are plenty of friendly ones. Don't spend all of your
time trying it. No, no, no, no, there's all a
big variety out there, and you've just walked in. They
don't like the smell of you. Okay, let's get on
to the next. Oh. You know, mate, I feel like
you're a life coach. I have to ask.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
I could talk to you about I could talk to
you all day long, but I have to ask. So
when you write different characters and different point of views,
is the villain the most fun they can be?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
They can be because I get to be my most
selfish and weird, and they're just Usually it's just a narcissist.
It's a person who has no kind of empathy. Sometimes
they're harder because real psychopaths have nothing going on underneath,
Like underneath the Lawrence, he was just empty inside. There
(33:56):
was just this need, the need for tension and love
and what can I get from you? What can I get?
And me, me, me me. It's very centric and it's
not very complicated, like I knew this psychopath. I had
this psychopath in my life. Everyone has one. Yeah, And
she was telling me about how she stole this umbrella
(34:17):
and she was like, look at this leopard print umbrella,
isn't it pretty? And I was like, where'd you get that?
She said, oh, I was just up the machas on
the corner and an old lady walked inside and she
put her umbrella down, so I took it. Isn't it pretty?
And I was like, but didn't you think about that
old lady? And then she comes out and her umbrella's gone.
She's got to walk home in the rain, and then
(34:37):
she doesn't trust people anymore, and maybe she's sad and
maybe her kid gave her that umbrella and like all
these complicated thoughts that you have as a normal person.
She was just like, no, I saw it, and I
wanted it, you know. And so so I'm much more
interested now in villains who they're just a normal person,
(34:59):
but they somehow how end up killing someone or stealing something,
you know, or whatever it is, because then you can
still have all the complex emotions and the wants and
needs and desires and you know, and and all that
kind of thing. Even in this new novel, the one
that's based not true crime, even ends up being sort
(35:21):
of the villain, but he's very understandable and he's very relatable,
and you go, yeah, I could see myself doing that.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, so you as the reader are kind of on
on there, like I feel like, having just finished high Wire,
like Bucks, like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I would say he's our hero.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yeah yeah, but like he has to do some bad
stuff along the way.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah yeah, because to who doesn't want to do bad
stuffy yeah. Now and then though, and it.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Kind of leans he's like it's this all die, Yeah,
like I gotta do I gotta do this bad stuff.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Like it's like I choose your own adventure and you
have that moment while I'm saying to the reader, so
would you, and they're like, yeah, if I yeah, yeah,
sure hopefully hopefully you keep saying if it's a hero,
you keep saying, yeah, I would, I would, I would,
And then you're on board with him the whole time.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
You got me at the end with some little twisties,
though I was like, oh what just people don't think
I'll do it well because I thought maybe not to
give too much. But I was very much intertwined in
potential romance and stuff going on, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
I was like, no, yeah, you romance. Romance is always
the after thought for me. I'm always like, oh, yeah,
I gotta put some romans in there. But I had
two bomb vests in this novel, and I'm like, if
one of them doesn't go off, there's going to be
sheer disappoint get from what is the point of them
(36:43):
being there? So the promise, the promise you always when
you write a novel, you have the promise of the premise.
The premise is you know, that promise is I'm going
to blow something up, you know. And there's a couple
of good explosions in there.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Quite a few. I have to say. How I found
out about this book. Was the yoga studio where I
teach yoga in La is directly across the road from
Apple TV. Yeah, yeah, and this beautiful yogi came in
and we would always just like chit chat about yoga,
like you know, just we live not near the yoga street.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
We both live near each other in Lace.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
We'll talk about like our favorite like coffee shops on
the other side of town and stuff. And then he
goes to me one day you're Australian and I'm like yeah,
and he's like, this is a long shot, but you
don't know, Candace Fox to you what, I actually got
a podcaster into authors and Candas has been one of
my all time favorite interviews. And he's like, really, that's
(37:41):
so funny. And he's like, look, I'm really trying to
option a book right now. And I go what, yeah,
yeah yeah, And he's like, can you put a good
word in for me? I was like, I'm like literally
teaching yin Yo candle Light yin yoga in la Yeah.
And I was like sure, a DM, you're on insta yo.
This really strange thing has just happened, and you're like
(38:03):
is that true. You're like, I'm looking at the contract.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Now right now, Yeah, that week they came in hard.
Apple came in hard. When we had another party who
were in it for that novel, and when we had
the Apple TV and Ridley Scott meeting and it was
Ridley Scott. Yes, we're talking Gladiator. I know, Aliens, I know.
(38:28):
I try to drop it as casually as I can,
because you don't want to be like, oh my god.
You know, you play it casual like, oh, that kind
of stuff happens to me all the time. But hang
on to me, isn't.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
One of the reasons you started writing because you loved
Martin Scorsese. So I feel like, yes, the fact that
you're now you are.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
A huge fangirl. I don't even remember that about myself.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Bola, knowing that Ridley Scott is like, yeah, hold, like,
can we just take a effing moment here.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Everybody take a break. Everybody get your coffees, go outside,
touch the grass. It's also, yeah, not.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Two or three years ago, you invited me to the
premiere the screen for Tropo Trompo, which is Crimson Lake
in a TV series which I believe is doing its
third season now.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
It's the third. I'm the last person that they tell
anything to. So I've heard that. I mean there's scripts written.
I've heard that Amazon FREEV though where they were showing it,
has dropped all of their scripted stuff except down one
though great. So I don't know. I don't know. It's
the TV and film stuff just goes on all the time.
(39:35):
I've got stuff with MGM, I've got stuff with Disney,
I've got stuff NBC. The announcement went out today, I
didn't know that announced what was going to happen. I
was like, oh, okay, there it is somebody with Fire?
All right? Yeah, Fire with Fire and smokes You're amazing.
Oh thank you, you're amazing.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Hang on, redly fucking Scott what how good.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Would it be to see it? And and you know
the one today for Fire with Fire they have an actor,
they have a writer, they have a show runner, they
have a streamer, they have a network. So those are
all the things you have to get signed up to
be greenlit. But then in my life, because I'm all
the way down the bottom of the chain, I'm going,
(40:20):
is it happening? What have you heard? What I'm texting?
When Tropo was happening, I got Thomas Jane's number. He
gave me his number, and I'm like, what are you hearing?
And he's like, well, I'm hearing this. I'm hearing that.
What are you hearing? And it's all lumbers. Nobody has
the complete picture. So he's saying, I think I have
a flight book for next week. Oh is that true?
(40:41):
And then I've got to tell you my story about
about going to the set to do my cameo. I
went to the set and there's two hundred people there.
Every time they film something, there's like fifty people on
the screen, one hundred and fifty like in the camera
view and there's one hundred and fifty people just stand
and around. I'm like, what does that guy do? What
(41:01):
is he doing? What is that guy do? And everyone
does something different. So there's two hundred people there. And
TJ was out there and he had this scene where
someone's coming in with an axe and he has to
grab the axe and go, no, Max, don't do it,
don't do it, Max, like that, Yeah, that's how he talks,
and that's my time's Jane depression. And anyway, he has
to wrestle a axe off. I'm standing there and I'm like, wow,
(41:25):
this is happening. I'm watching my show and that's my character.
He's dressed as my character. Wow, this is amazing. Wow. Anyway,
they do action and he goes, no, no, Max, don't
do it, and then cut and then he turns around
to me and he goes, what do you think? And
I went, oh, well, I thought it was really good.
It looked really real, you know. And then anyway, so
(41:47):
the director that he was actually looking at, who was
standing right behind me, leans out with his headset on
and he goes, oh, I also thought it was good,
and I was like, no, oh my god, I just
and everyone was like two hundred people were like, but wait,
wait that the best thing is that they ran it again.
(42:08):
And then you know, Max, Max no, cut and TJ
turns around and he goes, Candace, I gotta know what
did you think? I was like, Ah, your last tape
was better.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Do you ever think about or want to do screenwriting,
like for any of your adaptations.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
When Violet was a baby, a newborn baby, I was
breastfeeding her at night and I'm up all night nothing
to do. And you know, when you're breastfeeding a baby,
you're staring at them in wonderment oh, the universe and
my child for about thirty seconds, and then you get
your phone out and you go so on my phone,
(42:49):
I wrote a screenplay. I downloaded the final draft ap
and I wrote it.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
And I wrote a horror movie amazing Yes, and everyone
hated it. I said it to a my agent and
my TV film agent at that time, and they were like, wow,
this sucks, and I was.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Like, Okay, no screen adding for me. I'll stick to
my day job. Oh wow, the novels. Yeah. But so
I have done screenwriting, and it's just a medium. I
mean I enjoyed it in the way that you can
kind of go a warehouse and then that's it. You've
got the whole warehouse, whereas with a novel, you have
to go the warehouse squatted in the middle, like you know,
(43:27):
all the animal shedding its skin. They approached from the
south a gentle breeze, and you're like.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I've got a new one for you, friend, bloody voice
acting on these persons. I literally could talk to you
until the cows come home, all the.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Same to you.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
I have to ask the final question. And I know,
like people with dreams listen to this pod, and I
know you like run courses and mentor people and all
that kind of thing as well, Like what if someone's
got a dream, They're like, I've got this side, I
want to write a book.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
What advice do you have? Do not listen to anyone
who says that you can't do it, or what if this?
What if this happens, or what if that happens to it,
or like yeah, any of that negative talk. People say, oh,
I could never do that because I love my child
too much and I want to spend time with her instead,
and then they look at you like you're being selfish
(44:23):
or whatever it is. Don't listen to any negativity. Only
listen to positivity, and then be wary of like firing
out of the cannon with a dream, because then you'll
hit the ground. Like you're like, I'm going to do
this for six hours a day, five days a week.
You know, it's better to be consistent longer. Do Yeah,
(44:45):
do one thing every single day that gets you further
towards your dream. Yeah. Yeah. Study if it's a novel
in particular, study study, study. So I study because people
say to me all the time, oh, I'm on the
seventh draft of my ninth novel, and I've been rejected
eight thousand times and I go, oh, okay, So like,
have you ever taken a class in creative writing? They're like,
(45:08):
oh no, no, I've read books so I can write.
I mean I've read them. That's all you need to do, right,
And I'm like, you're like, I taught myself the violin
and I want to be a concerto violinist. I've never
taken a class and everyone hates how my violin music sounds.
It's like, go and take just take one class.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
That's what I say about actors in acting school in LA,
They're like, the first thing that you can do is
just get into a class, yes, because it's.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Not just like oh well this is loll acting right now.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
It's like you actually have to get your chops up. Yes,
you have to learn the skill.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
It's exact same with I imagine with book. And we
have great schools here in Australia, like great courses.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
We're so spoiled and you will start getting cut down
by people because I think with writers, people get you know,
their mom to read it, and they get their beta
readers who are other authors, you know, all their friends,
and they'll say lovely things. There's nothing like having a
teacher give you a pass and litter that piece of
(46:08):
paper with red crosses, and like, I had a lecture
and I used to sit with him and he just
used to slash our whole pages and be like this sucks.
This sucks. You know. So when you finally do make
it and already and yeah, and someone says to you
the entire front half of this novel has to be rewritten,
you go, oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
I studied kids fiction, creative kids fiction, running and I
wrote this whole story. Someone says, with aucle whales around
and they're like, kill it now, it's an apex predator.
You're not going to be able to get around that.
Kids are going to get scared, and they're like, you've
talked about death in the first page. I was like,
kids are going to freak out.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
And I was like, oh, so I've done.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
This completely like yes, completely wrong, la la, But just throw.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Away any embarrassment of having done it completely wrong, because
you go, oh, well, I'm a human being. There you go.
People get things wrong sometimes.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Everyone says your first draft is always going to be
a bit of a mess. Anyway, your first crack at
something it's gonna be a bit of a mess, whether
it's anything creative, and so I think I love your
resilience and I love your Oh yeah, this is scary.
I'm just gonna do it anyway. I'll think about it later.
I think that is like if we can live like that? Yes, imagine,
yeah right, yeah for sure, Candice Fox, you flip an unreal.
(47:22):
I can't wait to have you on the pot again.
I cannot wait to see high way I come to life.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Thank Holy Mac, Thank you for reading. Thank you for
having me. I can't wait. I don't want to leave.
Can I just stay?
Speaker 1 (47:33):
We're gonna do a hot seat right now, my friend.
Thank you so much. All Right, that's a wrap on
another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always, thank you to
our guests, and let's continue the conversation on Instagram. I'm
at Yamo Lullaberry.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
This potty my word.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
For podcast is available on all streaming platforms.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
I'd love it.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
You could subscribe, rape and comment, and of course spread
the love.
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