July 20, 2025 • 39 mins
Meet entertainment journalist JMo or Jonathon Moran, he's one of Australia's leading entertainment journalists. He's honest, straight up and believes in sharing the truth.
With over 20 years in the industry and a no-nonsense kind of wit about him, he's been the go-to person for film, TV and music stories over the years.
JMo opens up about his mental health journey, he's got a podcast called Mental as Anyone and a book coming out with the same title. You can order a copy here:Mental As Anyone Book
You can listen to his pod too: JMo Pod
We talk about self doubt and insecurities in this podcast and I get the vibe that JMo dives even deeper in his book. He doesn't believe in hiding the truth.
Hope you like this honest chat, JMo thank you for sharing so much of yourself today on the pod chat. Can't wait to get my hands on this book!
Big love, Lola
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Get a I'm Lola Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter,
and professional overshaer. This podcast is all about celebrating failure
because I believe it's a chance for us to learn,
grow and face our blind spots. Each week, I'll interview
a different guest about their highs as well as their lows,
(00:26):
all in a bid to inspire us to fearlessly fail.
Today on the pod, we have the I would say
one of the most celebrated entertainment journalists, Jmo. He covers
everything from film, TV, music. He's had over two decades
(00:49):
of experience in this industry. I'm going to say more
than that because I feel like he is the go
to person. And before we sat down for this chat you,
JMO had this book coming out called Mental as Anyone,
and I was like, is it anyway? I know it's
a bargo, but can I please read it? And he
let me read a copy before we sat down had
(01:09):
this chat. The good news is it's now officially available
everywhere wherever you get your books from. He also has
a pod with the same name. And the way that
JMO shares not only in his book, but when we
chat today, you'll hear he tells stories in a really accessible, vulnerable,
open way. So it's a very much what you see
(01:33):
is what you get kind of human being. I would say,
I hope you love this chat. He's really honest and
he's just himself, which I love. Also love snakes. So
we go down a bit of a rabbit hole there,
all right, Huru, enjoy this chat, JMO. You're incredible, strap
yourself in JMO. Welcome to the pod. You, my friend,
(01:54):
are I think the quintessential Australian entertainment journalists you've been?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I've certainly been doing it for long enough. I don't know,
over twenty years, right, I have to google what quintessential means.
I mean, I do know what it means. It's one
of those big words, isn't it anywhere?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
And I say, you don't use big words, but you
know what I mean. Like if I think entertainment reporter,
I think JMO.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, I've worked at this for a long time and
I pride myself in doing what I do. I hate
being called a gossip reporter. Yeah, gossip journalist, and a
lot of people call me that, and a lot of
people would see me as that, So thank you for
calling me an Entertainment Report entertainment journalist, because I've done
a lot of amazing things in that realm, and part
(02:37):
of that is gossip. But I've interviewed a lot of
people and had an amazing life.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
So yeah, I am.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I guess Quintessentials of Entertainment Report.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Harsh celebrate, celebrate yourself.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
My friend, not very good at that.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
No, well, there's a few topics that I'm so excited
to talk to you about that are not heavier, but
like things that people don't chit chat about as much.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Nothing's off Limit's stay babe, you can anything.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Sign me up.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I scrunch and I fold. Really honestly, I'm uncut.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Are you both snipples pissed? Well?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I just whatever I feel like? When you got pet snakes, right,
I've got.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I had five, but I just offloaded one of them
because it was a temporary care snake. I volunteer for
Wires Animals, and so that snake has been gone to
another carer. But I have four in permanent care. Are
They all carry Elizabeth and Ginger great names. Three of
them are pythons, and one of them is a night
(03:45):
tiger or a brown tree snake.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Oh okay, so like all non venomous.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
The night tiger is venomous, but only mildly so like
a little herd gives you a bit of a nip,
you know.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, I have a weird fascination with snakes. I've spent
a lot of time living in Byron Bay and they're
just in your backyard.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yeah, you get, you get night tigers up there.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
But the variety that I have is more of a
Northern Territory, North Australia variety, which is quite sexy. You know,
it's okay, quite a pretty special life, whereas the ones
that you get down here are more just run of
the mill brown tree snakes.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Oh I love all this, Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
So but yes I can handle an Eastern brown or
a red belly black.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I've done all the training. No, I get scared of that.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
I did a rescue the other day and it was
really sad. Actually it sort of fits into the conversation
around mental health. But you know, I live in a
city of Sydney and I'm taking this on a tangent.
But a lot of the rescues I do for snakes
are people that are not mentally well.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
So I had to do one in redfern.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
That was a gentleman that was on level eighteen of
one of the high rise buildings, and I had I
felt so bad for this gentleman because he was hallucinating
that he saw snakes that I live really had to
pretend that I caught the snake. I don't know if
I'm if that's immoral, I don't know. I was trying
to do what was right to not make him feel
other And then I spoke to people about it behind
(05:09):
the scenes and said, hey, this guy needs a welfare
check and we've got to do whatever. But yeah, some
of those, most of my rescues for snakes are not
hairy ones like I don't live in the Blue Mountains
or in bathist.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Or can I can I say that living in Los Angeles,
the rattlers. I've seen five rattlesnakes in LA Yeah, Santa
Monica Mountains, hiking right next to.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
My leg e one when I was a new podcast
and You're like, everyone's great with this and they're hot something.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
King in this and I'm like, oh my god, LA's got.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
To that girl.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yes I have. It's so wanky, it's so stupid, And
I say ERA one and it's so stupid. It's such
a stupid place where you pay seven hundred and fifty
dollars for a stupid juice and here's this tonic for.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
This and that. Yeah, I mean it's great.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I go in there and I'm like, this is rich,
and then I go and like want to buy stuff
and then no way, it's stupid. Everyone's stupid. It's for
rich celebrities. Okay, So people that want to be celebrities
that are all like I.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Want to live that life, so straight out of the gate.
I'm a huge fan of yours, but I am going
to disagree with you on the Air one. It's so
close to my house.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
If I could afford it, I would go there every day.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
It's literally our date, Sunday date, Like it's time for
Air one line.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Podcast makes a fortune. Who's your sponsor?
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Hopefully air one one? Right?
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yeah, thank you?
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Okay, So I definitely want to talk about mental health.
I'm really passionate as well, But I also want to
talk about your career because I didn't know you're a
camera boy. You you've trained, right, you've got. I studied journalism.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
I went to Camber UNI.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, I I did a double major in broadcast and
print journalism. I did a little cross institutionally, did Australian
National US and did German language studies at a knew.
So that was my UNI stuff. But I was plagued
by self doubt and so I was like I'd always
got to tutors and be like the one that never
(07:09):
wanted to read out my work and things like that.
It was just like, I'm a shit journalist anyway, here
I am a journalist twenty five years later or whatever
it is. I did work experience at Australian Associated Press
when I was at my second year of you at UNI.
I did a year of UNI, I had a nervous
breakdown and I took a year off and then I
(07:29):
went back for my second year and my third year.
So for the second year I got a job working
twenty hours a week as an editorial assistant at Associated
Press in Parliament House in Camera and that was great.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, what a way to case amazing.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Like I wanted to be a serious journalist, but I
didn't want to be doing this Instagram shit with influencers
in bikinis. I wanted to do like legit, you know,
foreign correspondence, serious stuff. I'm very passionate about politics and
very passionate about those sorts of things, global affairs, and
(08:06):
so yeah, that was my first love and my first job.
And at the end of my UNI, basically you have
an opportunity. The next step once you study is to
get a cadet ship. And so everyone that's at UNI
they apply for cadet ships, whether that's at what was
Fairfax back then for me, but it's at nine now
and then at Newscorb and then the ABC and then
(08:28):
you know, some people want to go into TV and
got a regional TV whatever. I got a cadet ship
at AAP which was seen as one of the cream
of the crop ones because it was a national thing.
I got to move to Sydney rather than live in
the back boomdogs of somewhere. Yeah, and it was amazing,
best thing ever, best training ever. We learned shorthand. We
did eight hours a week of shorthand with our fingers.
(08:50):
No wonder I've got arthritis in my thumbs sitting there
riding your shorthand.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Doing all that. It was amazing.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
It was so good the training, and in that training
to spend time in sport and finance and state politics,
which was boring compared to federal politics and then courts
and general news, And so I feel like I know now,
even though it's been a long time, that I could
jump into any area and cover a straight news story
(09:18):
on that basis.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I mean, how good is that to have that confidence
within his I know we're going to talk about self doubt,
but like to know that you've got those chops and
that training behind you, I have to ask to and
I've i've I think I read this last night. Is
it strange to the No, is it strange to then
write a book about yourself? And to the listener, there'll
(09:41):
be pre order links in the show notes, But is
it strange to then go, like, get really used to
talking about and reporting on very strange? Yeah, And then
every brought me mental as anyone, Mental as anyone.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
And it's a hard and it's the same as my podcast.
But the book is not the podcast. It's not a
compilation of interviews or anything from that. The book is
a mental health journey that I've been on meets self help.
And I've got an amazing woman by the name of
doctor Jodi Loringer who's come on board, and she's basically
(10:15):
I've written the book in four different parts and different themes,
and then she's pulled out that stuff and we've sort
of come up with a bit of a toolkit for survival.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Is she psych Yeah, yeah, psychologist.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah. So hopefully through sharing my story it will enable
other people to feel less alone, as cliched as that sounds,
but also, you know the themes are, it's broken up
into different things, so life and death and then.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Depression and whatever.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I can't remember that, I've got the thought that's I
was saying. I'm at the four point sexuality, addiction, self esteem,
life and death.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, okay, so I've got life and death right.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
But you would have written this is for the listener.
You would have written this book a while ago. How
long did it take you?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So everyone thinks, like I thought that writing a book
would be really intense, and it was, and it is.
But I write for a job, right, So I write
several thousand words a day sometimes, so that's a lot. Yeah,
just if you're thinking of a few thousand words. Any
a written news story that you'd read in a newspaper
(11:24):
online won't be five hundred words if it's a long story.
So if I write five of those that's two and
a half thousand words.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
What's your book like eighty thousand words?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, And so I during COVID, I I've always had
this niggling feeling that I needed to write some stuff
to get it out of myself, because I was the
sort of person that suppressed it. And despite the fact
that I'd had like an immense amount of counseling and
done a lot of work on myself, I still had
(11:55):
all this stuff buried inside me. And so during COVID,
one thought that I would write a celebrity book and
do all the celebrity gossip, and I'm just I just
thought that was so boring. I'm like, that's whatever, Like
who cares? And I still want to work, so I'm
not ready to retire yet. So at one point I
might do that, but because it is ridiculous, the shit
(12:15):
that goes on, it's all eraon, stupid, dizzy fairy flose shit.
But the book that came out of me was my story,
and it was written as a memoir, the truth, and
it was what I did was I was like, here's
a story, and I would hit the pavement. I went
(12:38):
down to the South Coast for like a period during COVID.
My aunt's coast house called Villa Costa Plenty. That's what
the family coast houses, you know that have those little
names in the front because it cost a bloody fortune.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Pople just sink into it.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
And I set myself up and I was determined to
do two hours minimum of writing a day or typing
a day. And some days I would do that and
other days I would do six hours. But so over
two weeks I wrote the book.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
That's I've written a bunch of books. And that's incredible.
Like I've thought, I'm good if I can get a
book out in three to four months, right, and and
I got pictures in mind, I can hack it out.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I look, yeah, I'm not saying it was great. That
was my first, but that's the hardest bit. And I
got it out, and was it?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Cathart.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
I had a girlfriend with me, and Amanda down with
me down the coast because we're both in hiding during
COVID and bunker down, and she'd read the chapters each night,
and yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
It just fell out of me.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
And like I said, I was going to write two
hours a day, and most days I would write more
than that, or i'd just be like, I've got to
get this out of me. I'd get up in the
morning and I'd be like, this is a topic, this
is a story. I'd go for a walk because that
was my way of clearing my head. Yeah, and I'd
dictate into my phone and I would tell the story,
and then I would go back and sit at my
(14:05):
computer and transcribe it.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
That would be the way that I'd get it out
of myself. That's such a good thing to share, though,
because I think everybody's writing method is completely different. Like
I'll get Butcher's paper out and I have to mind
map it all out and see it before I can
see I've got adhd.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I don't even I had no idea what the fucking
book was going to look like. I just I just
focused on each chapter, and then I had like forty chapters.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I was like, shit, Oh.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Well, thank you for being cheeking sharing the intro with
me last night. There were a lot of bits that
I loved about that intro. But the thing that like
rang true to me is I think as well, as
I turned forty this year, and as you get older,
you just your tolerance for bullshit kind of like goes out.
The window, and you just say like, this is my
truth and I just want to share my truth. And
(14:52):
straight away I was like, oh, well, I'm going to
be able to relate then because you're not wearing a mask.
You're just and I don't know if you remember, but
you and I have crossed paths career wise a few
times many over the decades. I feel but I.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Don't know if I remember. Jesus Christ, I do have dementia,
but it's not that bad.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
No, But I feel like a little pip squeak compared
to like you've come Madonna, and then you know what
I mean, Like, so one thing that I yeah, I
love this concept of sharing your truth.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
We're all pipsqueaks, just for the record, all of us,
all of them is your thing.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Everyone's the same, right, And you say that we all
have insecurities, every single person and celebrities are the worst,
really the worst. And how do you feel or see
those insecurities? Like do you can you just feel it
innately because it's something that you can feel within your mind.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Every single we're recording this in a radio studio.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, every single radio person I've ever met is so
plagued with insecurity and self doubt. Elissa is she's just nodding,
knowing what it blows my mind? Like they come off
here and they're like, is that okay?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Was that okay? Was that okay?
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Oh my god?
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Did I do?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Did I say this too much? And that's exactly me.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
That's what I do. Do you ruminate? Will you think
about something and keep it in your lives?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
In my hand? But I think that's something that everyone feels.
But I think perhaps in the creative field, maybe it's worse.
I have I suffer from. I've got a long list
of ailments, mental health ailments, from ADHD to depression to
severe PTSD to whatever.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
I'm feeling very slivey. There's our audiogram, there's our.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
It's a list.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
So what was I saying? So we're talking about everyone
having insecurities. But the thing that I'm really excited to
chat to you about with the book is self doubt.
And I know that's a huge topic. I know you
talk about it on your pod. I know you interview
people that have these incredible careers, are totally financially stable,
and it's like it's almost like no one gets away
(16:59):
to go free. We all feel self doubt. In one
way or another.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I think once you realize that in life, I think
life's a little bit easier to handle because you know
that it's less scary when you're stepping into a room.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I have to ask you though, because to me, you
have always felt so confident. I know, like people will
find me scary. Yeah, I've never been scared of you.
But I've always known you as like very confident and clear.
You've always been a very clear communicator, and I know
you have trained people on like media training, training and
that sort of stuff. Friend of mine train with you
(17:33):
and said it changed your life. Christy Morris, Oh yeah, yeah,
love her and she's like completely changed my life. And
I just think that's obviously we see you on the
outside as it's confident, go getter and like, you know,
one minute you're in La. I think I've reached out
to you when you're in LA and be like can
you jump on the pod? You're like, bab, I'm already
on a flight back to Australia, And I just want
(17:56):
to know, like when it comes to self doubt for you, like,
how does that manifest for you?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I mean, walking in here today, I was like, God,
I hope I'm not too boring. I hope I've got
something to say. So to people that are listening, I'm sorry.
If this is boring, tune out to the next episode.
We'll just go back and listen to the last episode again.
Like I said, I think if you realize that everyone
has the same insecurities to different degrees, then I think
(18:26):
life is a bit easier for me. It manifests in
the sense that how does it manifest. My brain kind
of works differently but the same. I just think I've
always thought I'm not good enough always. I never thought
from school, I was the fat kid, I was the
(18:46):
ugly kid. I was the gay kid who didn't know
he was gay. That was, you know, picked on for whatever.
I just never felt good enough, and I still don't.
I still often don't feel good enough. Most of the days.
I look like today, I look in the mirror and
(19:07):
I'm like, all I can see is fat, All I
can see is ugly. All I can see is my
fifteen chins. And I'm not saying that to get compliments,
to say, hey, Jmo, you know, I don't need you
to pat me on the back. That is where my
brain naturally goes and I've done a lot of work
on myself, so I know that a lot of that is.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Like body dysmorphia. Yes, how do you feel about therapy
and mental health work? I know you've done, so I
have to do it. And I you know, at the moment,
I'm in a pretty good spot because I'm very self aware,
like so self aware it's ridiculous, isn't that that? I think, Yeah,
that's okay. Maybe I'm too self aware.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I'm an open book.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I walk and go, hey, yeah, I've got depression and
I've got ADHD and.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
And people like, holy.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Fuck, who is this?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Dude?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
What the ship?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
But don't you think self awareness and like the commitment
to whether it's therapy or some form of mental health
work is essentially a superpower. Like people will say to me,
watcha keda success, and I on the days I definitely
don't feel successful, I'll be like therapy and like and
and sitting in the ship and like sitting in the
discomfort and getting a non biased opinion to be like, hey, actually, yeah,
(20:20):
that is your body's I look. I looked in the
mirror this morning and was like, you're fat, like full,
you're not.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
But do you know what I'm shook it by your hair.
But you've dyed your hair black.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah you're not. You're not a fan of the black hair.
I just don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
It's just really thrown me.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Do you know what made me actually do it? It's
so embarrassing. I watched Riverdale and I thought Cole Sprouse
was so hot, and I figured out he was naturally
blonde and had dyed his hand black. And I was like, well,
the blue eyes with the black hair, that's great. I'm
just not used to it because that picture on the
wall there is not blonde. I'll be back there, so
fun just mix it up.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yeah, but anyway, I hear you.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I know we all feel this. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
I've done a lot of therapy. I'd like to do more.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
My favorite therapy that I did was sort of disguised
as yoga retreat in Romania, Romania with a girlfriend, and
so I went there and did a week of yoga.
I can I can't even sit cross legged. So this
was just ridiculous and weird.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
And there was talk therapy as well.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
No we didn't, we just did, you know, the basics,
but we ate vegan food and I don't trust vegans.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
It freaks me out, Oh, well, you're not a first
person to say that.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I mean, I do trust them, but it just like Vegan,
like everything tastes like cardboard.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
That's so funny. Okay, So right before we hit record,
I was like, oh, I'm going to see you ex recording.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yeah shit, I thought we were recording.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
But we were talking about your upcoming book and you
were like, well, I'm so scared what if it doesn't sell?
And I think it's this idea of or what if
people don't like it, or what if it's a failure.
And I think that, like anyone that does anything creative
that is effected like that, they put their heart on
the line. I think there's always that like oh what if.
(22:06):
Like I'm in acting school in LA. Every time I
put a scene up, I'm like, oh, what if I
bomb right now? Like what if this is the worst thing?
Like what if I'm the oldest person in the room,
like all this shit, social media, all of those things. Look,
I'm shitting myself right now. Because the book's out in
a few weeks and you can do a tour. I'm
(22:26):
going to do a little bit of a tour and
I haven't even.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Got that far yet. I don't la.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Doing books is you know, it's all in the smell
of an oily rag and you just do what you
can do. So I, yeah, I will do stuff, but
I'm begging, borrowing and stealing. It took you a while
to get your book deal, right, It took four years,
And part of that was I wrote it and then
I just chucked it in the draw, yeah, metaphorically. And
(22:53):
then I spoke to one big publisher and they drag
things on for about a year and they're like, actually,
not sure that's for us at the moment. Okay, very
fucking much, because it was for you six months ago
when you were telling me you were interested.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, there's a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
And then I go to another publisher and they're like, oh, yeah, actually, yeah,
we are interested. Let me sit with that and we'll
have this meeting with that, meaning they'll take this to
this person and they'll take it to that person, and
that goes on for another six months.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Right after you, I'm interviewing Candas Fox's our most celebrated
crime fiction author. Two hundred rejection letters. Yeah, like so
I don't And that's the thing, like, and that's why
I'm excited to talk to you about rejection as well,
because I think we see like JMO, like, yeah, you're
interviewing like sure, Madonna like all these incredible Jane Fonda,
by the way, was she amazing lover? I'm obsessed, lovely
(23:44):
kind lovely.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
I mean, look, they're doing media, right, so I'm not
hanging out in their kitchen just having a chin wag
over a couple of teas.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
So it's.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
It's it's a very controlled situation. Share is incredible. Really still,
I've met her that many times. I still don't even
know how to say it. Name probably is sure.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
I don't know either, Share.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Sure, you've got a good American accent going on you there.
But didn't you do it? Wasn't Averill Levine that she
was hungover and.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
You guys just like a couch?
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, how did you do? Was that in the book?
That wasn't in the book? That was your research? A
jeep dive. I'm such a nerd.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
I'm so terrible.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I don't do any research. When I go into an interview,
I have a look quick look at Wikipedia. I know
roughly who the person is, and I'm like, yep, cool,
what are you doing? And I throw it all on
them and then when they this is my I'm letting
my secrets out, and when they don't have anything, I'm like, yeah,
but come on. No. I did that with Jeremy Piven
the other day and I said to him, right, so
tell me what you're gonna you know, what's funny? What's
(24:40):
what are you going to do on stage?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Stand up now?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
And he's like, well, why don't you put.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
A bit of luber on first before you throw into
getting me tell you what's what's funny.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
We'll get some ammal as well. Thanks mate?
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Did you say that? Yeah? How did he take it?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah, fine, kind of a bit of banter, but it
was a bit dry humor. No, I love it. I
love it. Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Avril Levine and I we did an interview in London.
She was hungover as fuck and we're in this amazing
suite and it's just really end up just lying on
the couch. I can't remember if I was hungover or not,
but yeah it was. She was very hungover.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
But this is what and what you said about this
was like it was just so real. It was like
you got this real moment. It wasn't You're usually interviewing
people when they're on this media junket, and so the
answers are often rehearsed.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
On the stupid American publicists and the control of that stuff. Yeah,
sorry to stupid American publicist. You're not all stupid, just
some of you are very controlling and that does more
damage than good.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Can I say some of my favorite interviews I've done
with people in America and they've had no mind is no?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Do you find like when people are just they are
the easier they are to deal with?
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Probably?
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Don't you reckon?
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Often? Not always?
Speaker 1 (25:52):
So how on earth did your pod come about? Because
you're such a natural speaker. But we're talking now, so.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
You know the podcast came about because I was kept
getting rejections about the book, so you like stuff this
and I'm like, you know what, this is a really
important message.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
We're all mental as anyone.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I don't know if the book, what's going to happen
with the book, but I still think there's stories to
be told in sharing our common thoughts around mental health
and do we have similarities?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
And that was my idea.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
And so I spoke to a girlfriend of mine, Lucy
and Sarah, two girlfriends, they're two different people.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
They don't know, it's not.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Someone with marsh and they're like, you know what, let's look,
what do you do the podcast?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
So I met with Darcy who produces the podcast, and
it just felt right, and we dived in and do
you dive in or do you dive in? Both dived
We jumped in and I'm the journalist asking this question,
catching myself and meetating myself on the way, and I
(26:57):
felt this strange sense of clarity and validation that that
that I was on the right track and that what
I thought was right, Like it was sort of in
my head like I thought that, yeah, that's what it is,
but then it was true. And Guy Sebastian was opening
(27:17):
up about incredible things in his life and insecurities, and
Michael Clark as well, and Robert Irwin and Jackie o
Midlissa Leon.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
You know, how do you find long form interview because
that's quite different to what.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
You're It's not a gotcha situation either, So you know,
you just say to people, don't talk about anything you're
not comfortable with. I'm not going to push you in
that direction. If you don't feel comfortable, then we're not
going to go there. Mental health is such a personal thing.
So the podcast came out and I funded at all,
(27:52):
you know, I had some sponsors, which was amazing, and
then it came out and I did a season launch
and on the day that I did the season launch,
I was carrying bottles of booze that I was that
I'd bought from BWS and just doing it all myself.
And I got an email fell into my inbox and
(28:15):
it was a woman by the name of Jordan Lott
and she works at why oh yeah, I know she
used to work in podcasting, and she said, you interested.
We've been looking at this, We've noticed your podcast. Are
you interested in writing a book for us?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
She's lovely, she's amazing. Oh what a good person to
champion you.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
And so I.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
We jumped on the phone immediately because I had a number,
and I said, well, I've alread written it.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
And so the book that i'd written was just my story.
And so we went back and forth and back and forth,
and that was basically a year ago. Things don't move
quickly in publishing.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
But that's always say it's twelve months like giving but
not that I have had a kid. But it's like
you signed the contract and then it's usually on sale
twelve months later.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, so that was a year ago that we had.
It was a year ago in July that we had
that conversation.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
And it'll come out June twenty and it'll come out.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
In June twenty five.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, so it actually moved pretty quickly for me because
that was a conversation.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
We didn't sign.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Until oh, I'm wrapped for you.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
I'm a team very good with the day. So yes,
what Jordan's been incredible and got an awesome editor, Kerry
London who's based in New Zealand, who has been going
through my copy and how.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Good is it as a creative having a team that
champions you, whether it's pod, whether it's book, whether it's
I think it's really important to have the people around
you that believe in you, especially when you're sharing something
so vulnerable that is your not just mental health journey,
but I feel like you're sharing your like what's and
all truth.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I think they'll think I'm a lazy author as well,
because Kerry when I was, when she was editing things,
she can here's a suggestion for this, and I'm like.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Sure, like I'm not precious about any of that. But
that's a way to get a good book.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
And I'm like, I trust you. I've been journalisming for
years and years and years. I'm not precious. Here you go,
here's what I've done. Tell me what you think is
going to work. Because I can't look at the bigger picture.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
I just find it.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Even now, I find it impossible to see the whole picture. Really,
I find it.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Really you're more like specific folks. I'm going to dive
into the chapter and carry fisher. I'm going to dive
into the chapter on a donna. I'm going to dive
into the chapter on suicide or ideation or whatever you know.
And then but I can't.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
I can't. I can't.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
I struggle to see how the whole thing works.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I can.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
I am the.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Opposite of you. I have to see big picture and
work back. I've got five year plans, ten year plans,
Oh my god, freak, control freak. Whereas I feel like
you always.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
You were talking about packing for coming to Australia, and
You're like, I've got to pack and then repack, and
then I've got this many books on this and the other.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
I've got books that I haven't.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Finished reading from six months ago and whatever they were
be stacked up next to the bed. I'm going to
Melbourne tonight just for the night. I've got a massive,
like the biggest suitcase, and I just threw it all
in there.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
No, absolutely not. Did you fold or roll any of that?
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Definitely didn't fold.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
You just threw in.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah, like three pairs of I'm going for one night,
three pairs of undies. But that's a pair of So
now if you's to weather this event, I'm going to
tonight a couple of pairs of shoes. It's the Grand
Prix Glamor on the Green event. Of course it's black tie.
I'm not going to I'm just not feeling black tie.
So I'm just gonna wear what I feel comfortable in
and fuck it.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yeah, okay, So this is something that I love about
the pod. Whenever I interview a creative that is leader
of their field, I imagine, imagine if like a twenty
year old aspiring journo was listening to this, what advice
would you give for like some young gum being like
I want to be a JMA or I want to you.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Know, don't fucking do it. Journalism is a really interesting
world right now. I don't want to get political, but
you know, we're in a Trump world. I think truth
in journalism and storytelling is really important. So we need
(32:14):
young journalists who are have strong, strong.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Self value values and morals.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Morals, but they also need to remember that your job
as a journalist isn't to tell your story. Every young
journalist that comes through wants to have an opinion. I'm like, mate,
you earn an opinion. Opinions like assholes, We've all got them.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Where's your line? Where's your ahole line?
Speaker 2 (32:39):
How many times do I pull that all every interview
You've done it? And so, but it's everyone wants a fuck,
everyone thinks they've got an opinion. So I think it's
journalists you've got to really pay your dues and do it.
I joke by saying don't do it. But it is
a tough industry. It's not an industry that you earn
(33:00):
a lot of money. It's a highly stressful, highly stressful environment.
It is. It is challenging because sometimes you have to
write about things that are really difficult, maybe things you
don't agree with, you know, if I'm a gay. I
did an interview with Anthony Mundine in South Africa when
(33:22):
I'm a celebrity, to get me out of here. And
he in the show, he was talking about his views
on homosexuality, and in the interview straight to face to face,
he basically said that that that it's wrong and.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
In his belief that.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Gay people shouldn't shouldn't be What do you say, Well,
I'm not there to censor him, so I wrote the story.
Anthony Mundine says, x y Z. I can't remember the
exact quote, so I don't want to a legal issue that.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
I think.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
He said later that I misquoted him because he meant it.
You know, he's got gay friends, so he knows gay
people and they're fine something. But anyway, it's a tough
industry and it's also changing dramatically. But so is radio,
so is podcasting, so is supermarketing, so is everything in life.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Very fast, the world is a quick moving because I
think from what you've said, journalism pod like writing books.
I do think that it's a real resilience game as well,
and like being able to like stand, not to get
too whimsical and yogi on you, but like stand in
the fire and just stay calm, keep moving forward.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
There were times that I wasn't like Lucy and Sarah
and my friend David as well my partner Alex.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
When I was like, you know what, that's another rejection.
I can't handle any more rejection.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
I'm a failure. They're like, no, no, no, We'll go
to the next one.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
How good? How good having those people like those people.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
It's just they just haven't seen it yet.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
You know. They kept referring to Harry Potter, author whatever
her name is, the JK transphobia, Yeah, woman, and how
many rejections she got.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
So I'm not luckying myself to her by any means
at all. Are we going to get a wizarding book next?
I'm not doing this to become some big old your
relationship with fame, I feel like, because you're like, I'm
not doing this for fame. I don't need to be known,
like you say, You're very open about that.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
You're like, I like being recognized for the work that
I do, and I like people to.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Know that. And yeah, I mean I've had times where
I've gotten a buzz out of people going, oh, you
got that guy that I saw on X y Z.
Normally it's a homeless person that's got my head that
they've picked up. They've picked up the paper, and there's
my head in the newspaper, and there's my dinkersh. I
know you.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Like you like the fame game that much. As far
as for yourself, it just.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
I mean, what is fame. It's just a stupid concept.
I want to be recognized and acknowledged for doing good
things in life. But I have to say, and it
goes back to what I said before about doing the
podcast and then the book and whatever. I love being
a journalist, but the work that I've done in having
conversations around mental health is the most important.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Stuff that I've done in my life.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
If I got hit by a bus today, I would
hope that that's what I'm remembered for, not for writing
a story about some person on Home and Away and
there's no dissingc to Home and Away.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Well, I think as well. I took this from your
intro of your book. It's like telling a story in
an accessible way, and I think that's what the part
is for you. And I think that that going by
the intro is what your book will be like, sharing
that honesty really vulnerable, but also in a way that
people can pass. But see themselves or relate to it
in some way.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
The book has everything you know, being sexually abused, it
has suicide attempts, it's had, it's got everything in it,
and it does have a smattering of celebrity stories.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
But I felt that if I wasn't gonna.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
If I expect people to be truthful and honest with
me in conversations that I have with them as my
day to day in my day to day journalism, then
I can't There's no point in doing a book if
I'm not going to tell the truth. People are like
my partner, even my twin sisters, like, oh but what
if what if you you admit that you take drugs?
That you took drugs in it? Yeah, So like, yeah,
(37:43):
I've taken cocaine. Yeah, I I've done excessive things and
I'm not necessarily proud of those things, but it's who
I am.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yeah. So you're just like basically like, here I am.
Take it or leave it? What is your goal for
people reading book?
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Like?
Speaker 1 (38:00):
What do you want them to take away? Just see?
Like I'm going to.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
See the message as simple as that message if the
message is just we're all not as different as we
think we are.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
We're all a little mental.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, we are all mental, and I think mentals. I've
actually got tattoo, I know, I saw. I just I
think mental is such a cool word and let's celebrate it.
It's like I hated the word queer when I was younger,
and you please hear me say that in a million
of my podcast too. I hated it because it was
always other. So mental was always seen as a negative thing.
(38:33):
And I've proclaimed it and where it is this beautiful
badge of honor of you know, like yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
The tattoo is the same font as yeah, yeah, how good?
Don't changing the font then?
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Yeah? But I like the font anyway, so it can
you know, there's other tattoos. I'd get rid of that one.
I'm I'm happy to keep Jamo.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
I have loved having you on this Pard. That's a
wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always, thank
you to our guests, and let's continue the conversation on Instagram.
I'm at Yamo Lollerberry. This potty my word for podcast
(39:14):
is available on all streaming platforms. I'd love it if
you could subscribe, rape and comment, and of course spread
the love.
Get a I'm Lola Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter,
and professional overshaer. This podcast is all about celebrating failure
because I believe it's a chance for us to learn,
grow and face our blind spots. Each week, I'll interview
a different guest about their highs as well as their lows,
(00:26):
all in a bid to inspire us to fearlessly fail.
Today on the pod, we have the I would say
one of the most celebrated entertainment journalists, Jmo. He covers
everything from film, TV, music. He's had over two decades
(00:49):
of experience in this industry. I'm going to say more
than that because I feel like he is the go
to person. And before we sat down for this chat you,
JMO had this book coming out called Mental as Anyone,
and I was like, is it anyway? I know it's
a bargo, but can I please read it? And he
let me read a copy before we sat down had
(01:09):
this chat. The good news is it's now officially available
everywhere wherever you get your books from. He also has
a pod with the same name. And the way that
JMO shares not only in his book, but when we
chat today, you'll hear he tells stories in a really accessible, vulnerable,
open way. So it's a very much what you see
(01:33):
is what you get kind of human being. I would say,
I hope you love this chat. He's really honest and
he's just himself, which I love. Also love snakes. So
we go down a bit of a rabbit hole there,
all right, Huru, enjoy this chat, JMO. You're incredible, strap
yourself in JMO. Welcome to the pod. You, my friend,
(01:54):
are I think the quintessential Australian entertainment journalists you've been?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I've certainly been doing it for long enough. I don't know,
over twenty years, right, I have to google what quintessential means.
I mean, I do know what it means. It's one
of those big words, isn't it anywhere?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
And I say, you don't use big words, but you
know what I mean. Like if I think entertainment reporter,
I think JMO.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, I've worked at this for a long time and
I pride myself in doing what I do. I hate
being called a gossip reporter. Yeah, gossip journalist, and a
lot of people call me that, and a lot of
people would see me as that, So thank you for
calling me an Entertainment Report entertainment journalist, because I've done
a lot of amazing things in that realm, and part
(02:37):
of that is gossip. But I've interviewed a lot of
people and had an amazing life.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
So yeah, I am.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I guess Quintessentials of Entertainment Report.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Harsh celebrate, celebrate yourself.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
My friend, not very good at that.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
No, well, there's a few topics that I'm so excited
to talk to you about that are not heavier, but
like things that people don't chit chat about as much.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Nothing's off Limit's stay babe, you can anything.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Sign me up.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I scrunch and I fold. Really honestly, I'm uncut.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Are you both snipples pissed? Well?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I just whatever I feel like? When you got pet snakes, right,
I've got.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I had five, but I just offloaded one of them
because it was a temporary care snake. I volunteer for
Wires Animals, and so that snake has been gone to
another carer. But I have four in permanent care. Are
They all carry Elizabeth and Ginger great names. Three of
them are pythons, and one of them is a night
(03:45):
tiger or a brown tree snake.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Oh okay, so like all non venomous.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
The night tiger is venomous, but only mildly so like
a little herd gives you a bit of a nip,
you know.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, I have a weird fascination with snakes. I've spent
a lot of time living in Byron Bay and they're
just in your backyard.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yeah, you get, you get night tigers up there.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
But the variety that I have is more of a
Northern Territory, North Australia variety, which is quite sexy. You know,
it's okay, quite a pretty special life, whereas the ones
that you get down here are more just run of
the mill brown tree snakes.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Oh I love all this, Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
So but yes I can handle an Eastern brown or
a red belly black.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I've done all the training. No, I get scared of that.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
I did a rescue the other day and it was
really sad. Actually it sort of fits into the conversation
around mental health. But you know, I live in a
city of Sydney and I'm taking this on a tangent.
But a lot of the rescues I do for snakes
are people that are not mentally well.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
So I had to do one in redfern.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
That was a gentleman that was on level eighteen of
one of the high rise buildings, and I had I
felt so bad for this gentleman because he was hallucinating
that he saw snakes that I live really had to
pretend that I caught the snake. I don't know if
I'm if that's immoral, I don't know. I was trying
to do what was right to not make him feel
other And then I spoke to people about it behind
(05:09):
the scenes and said, hey, this guy needs a welfare
check and we've got to do whatever. But yeah, some
of those, most of my rescues for snakes are not
hairy ones like I don't live in the Blue Mountains
or in bathist.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Or can I can I say that living in Los Angeles,
the rattlers. I've seen five rattlesnakes in LA Yeah, Santa
Monica Mountains, hiking right next to.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
My leg e one when I was a new podcast
and You're like, everyone's great with this and they're hot something.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
King in this and I'm like, oh my god, LA's got.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
To that girl.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yes I have. It's so wanky, it's so stupid, And
I say ERA one and it's so stupid. It's such
a stupid place where you pay seven hundred and fifty
dollars for a stupid juice and here's this tonic for.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
This and that. Yeah, I mean it's great.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I go in there and I'm like, this is rich,
and then I go and like want to buy stuff
and then no way, it's stupid. Everyone's stupid. It's for
rich celebrities. Okay, So people that want to be celebrities
that are all like I.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Want to live that life, so straight out of the gate.
I'm a huge fan of yours, but I am going
to disagree with you on the Air one. It's so
close to my house.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
If I could afford it, I would go there every day.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
It's literally our date, Sunday date, Like it's time for
Air one line.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Podcast makes a fortune. Who's your sponsor?
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Hopefully air one one? Right?
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yeah, thank you?
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Okay, So I definitely want to talk about mental health.
I'm really passionate as well, But I also want to
talk about your career because I didn't know you're a
camera boy. You you've trained, right, you've got. I studied journalism.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
I went to Camber UNI.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, I I did a double major in broadcast and
print journalism. I did a little cross institutionally, did Australian
National US and did German language studies at a knew.
So that was my UNI stuff. But I was plagued
by self doubt and so I was like I'd always
got to tutors and be like the one that never
(07:09):
wanted to read out my work and things like that.
It was just like, I'm a shit journalist anyway, here
I am a journalist twenty five years later or whatever
it is. I did work experience at Australian Associated Press
when I was at my second year of you at UNI.
I did a year of UNI, I had a nervous
breakdown and I took a year off and then I
(07:29):
went back for my second year and my third year.
So for the second year I got a job working
twenty hours a week as an editorial assistant at Associated
Press in Parliament House in Camera and that was great.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, what a way to case amazing.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Like I wanted to be a serious journalist, but I
didn't want to be doing this Instagram shit with influencers
in bikinis. I wanted to do like legit, you know,
foreign correspondence, serious stuff. I'm very passionate about politics and
very passionate about those sorts of things, global affairs, and
(08:06):
so yeah, that was my first love and my first job.
And at the end of my UNI, basically you have
an opportunity. The next step once you study is to
get a cadet ship. And so everyone that's at UNI
they apply for cadet ships, whether that's at what was
Fairfax back then for me, but it's at nine now
and then at Newscorb and then the ABC and then
(08:28):
you know, some people want to go into TV and
got a regional TV whatever. I got a cadet ship
at AAP which was seen as one of the cream
of the crop ones because it was a national thing.
I got to move to Sydney rather than live in
the back boomdogs of somewhere. Yeah, and it was amazing,
best thing ever, best training ever. We learned shorthand. We
did eight hours a week of shorthand with our fingers.
(08:50):
No wonder I've got arthritis in my thumbs sitting there
riding your shorthand.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Doing all that. It was amazing.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
It was so good the training, and in that training
to spend time in sport and finance and state politics,
which was boring compared to federal politics and then courts
and general news, And so I feel like I know now,
even though it's been a long time, that I could
jump into any area and cover a straight news story
(09:18):
on that basis.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I mean, how good is that to have that confidence
within his I know we're going to talk about self doubt,
but like to know that you've got those chops and
that training behind you, I have to ask to and
I've i've I think I read this last night. Is
it strange to the No, is it strange to then
write a book about yourself? And to the listener, there'll
(09:41):
be pre order links in the show notes, But is
it strange to then go, like, get really used to
talking about and reporting on very strange? Yeah, And then
every brought me mental as anyone, Mental as anyone.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
And it's a hard and it's the same as my podcast.
But the book is not the podcast. It's not a
compilation of interviews or anything from that. The book is
a mental health journey that I've been on meets self help.
And I've got an amazing woman by the name of
doctor Jodi Loringer who's come on board, and she's basically
(10:15):
I've written the book in four different parts and different themes,
and then she's pulled out that stuff and we've sort
of come up with a bit of a toolkit for survival.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Is she psych Yeah, yeah, psychologist.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah. So hopefully through sharing my story it will enable
other people to feel less alone, as cliched as that sounds,
but also, you know the themes are, it's broken up
into different things, so life and death and then.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Depression and whatever.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I can't remember that, I've got the thought that's I
was saying. I'm at the four point sexuality, addiction, self esteem,
life and death.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, okay, so I've got life and death right.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
But you would have written this is for the listener.
You would have written this book a while ago. How
long did it take you?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So everyone thinks, like I thought that writing a book
would be really intense, and it was, and it is.
But I write for a job, right, So I write
several thousand words a day sometimes, so that's a lot. Yeah,
just if you're thinking of a few thousand words. Any
a written news story that you'd read in a newspaper
(11:24):
online won't be five hundred words if it's a long story.
So if I write five of those that's two and
a half thousand words.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
What's your book like eighty thousand words?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, And so I during COVID, I I've always had
this niggling feeling that I needed to write some stuff
to get it out of myself, because I was the
sort of person that suppressed it. And despite the fact
that I'd had like an immense amount of counseling and
done a lot of work on myself, I still had
(11:55):
all this stuff buried inside me. And so during COVID,
one thought that I would write a celebrity book and
do all the celebrity gossip, and I'm just I just
thought that was so boring. I'm like, that's whatever, Like
who cares? And I still want to work, so I'm
not ready to retire yet. So at one point I
might do that, but because it is ridiculous, the shit
(12:15):
that goes on, it's all eraon, stupid, dizzy fairy flose shit.
But the book that came out of me was my story,
and it was written as a memoir, the truth, and
it was what I did was I was like, here's
a story, and I would hit the pavement. I went
(12:38):
down to the South Coast for like a period during COVID.
My aunt's coast house called Villa Costa Plenty. That's what
the family coast houses, you know that have those little
names in the front because it cost a bloody fortune.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Pople just sink into it.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
And I set myself up and I was determined to
do two hours minimum of writing a day or typing
a day. And some days I would do that and
other days I would do six hours. But so over
two weeks I wrote the book.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
That's I've written a bunch of books. And that's incredible.
Like I've thought, I'm good if I can get a
book out in three to four months, right, and and
I got pictures in mind, I can hack it out.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I look, yeah, I'm not saying it was great. That
was my first, but that's the hardest bit. And I
got it out, and was it?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Cathart.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
I had a girlfriend with me, and Amanda down with
me down the coast because we're both in hiding during
COVID and bunker down, and she'd read the chapters each night,
and yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
It just fell out of me.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
And like I said, I was going to write two
hours a day, and most days I would write more
than that, or i'd just be like, I've got to
get this out of me. I'd get up in the
morning and I'd be like, this is a topic, this
is a story. I'd go for a walk because that
was my way of clearing my head. Yeah, and I'd
dictate into my phone and I would tell the story,
and then I would go back and sit at my
(14:05):
computer and transcribe it.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
That would be the way that I'd get it out
of myself. That's such a good thing to share, though,
because I think everybody's writing method is completely different. Like
I'll get Butcher's paper out and I have to mind
map it all out and see it before I can
see I've got adhd.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I don't even I had no idea what the fucking
book was going to look like. I just I just
focused on each chapter, and then I had like forty chapters.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I was like, shit, Oh.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Well, thank you for being cheeking sharing the intro with
me last night. There were a lot of bits that
I loved about that intro. But the thing that like
rang true to me is I think as well, as
I turned forty this year, and as you get older,
you just your tolerance for bullshit kind of like goes out.
The window, and you just say like, this is my
truth and I just want to share my truth. And
(14:52):
straight away I was like, oh, well, I'm going to
be able to relate then because you're not wearing a mask.
You're just and I don't know if you remember, but
you and I have crossed paths career wise a few
times many over the decades. I feel but I.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Don't know if I remember. Jesus Christ, I do have dementia,
but it's not that bad.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
No, But I feel like a little pip squeak compared
to like you've come Madonna, and then you know what
I mean, Like, so one thing that I yeah, I
love this concept of sharing your truth.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
We're all pipsqueaks, just for the record, all of us,
all of them is your thing.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Everyone's the same, right, And you say that we all
have insecurities, every single person and celebrities are the worst,
really the worst. And how do you feel or see
those insecurities? Like do you can you just feel it
innately because it's something that you can feel within your mind.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Every single we're recording this in a radio studio.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, every single radio person I've ever met is so
plagued with insecurity and self doubt. Elissa is she's just nodding,
knowing what it blows my mind? Like they come off
here and they're like, is that okay?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Was that okay? Was that okay?
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Oh my god?
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Did I do?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Did I say this too much? And that's exactly me.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
That's what I do. Do you ruminate? Will you think
about something and keep it in your lives?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
In my hand? But I think that's something that everyone feels.
But I think perhaps in the creative field, maybe it's worse.
I have I suffer from. I've got a long list
of ailments, mental health ailments, from ADHD to depression to
severe PTSD to whatever.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
I'm feeling very slivey. There's our audiogram, there's our.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
It's a list.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
So what was I saying? So we're talking about everyone
having insecurities. But the thing that I'm really excited to
chat to you about with the book is self doubt.
And I know that's a huge topic. I know you
talk about it on your pod. I know you interview
people that have these incredible careers, are totally financially stable,
and it's like it's almost like no one gets away
(16:59):
to go free. We all feel self doubt. In one
way or another.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I think once you realize that in life, I think
life's a little bit easier to handle because you know
that it's less scary when you're stepping into a room.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I have to ask you though, because to me, you
have always felt so confident. I know, like people will
find me scary. Yeah, I've never been scared of you.
But I've always known you as like very confident and clear.
You've always been a very clear communicator, and I know
you have trained people on like media training, training and
that sort of stuff. Friend of mine train with you
(17:33):
and said it changed your life. Christy Morris, Oh yeah, yeah,
love her and she's like completely changed my life. And
I just think that's obviously we see you on the
outside as it's confident, go getter and like, you know,
one minute you're in La. I think I've reached out
to you when you're in LA and be like can
you jump on the pod? You're like, bab, I'm already
on a flight back to Australia, And I just want
(17:56):
to know, like when it comes to self doubt for you, like,
how does that manifest for you?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I mean, walking in here today, I was like, God,
I hope I'm not too boring. I hope I've got
something to say. So to people that are listening, I'm sorry.
If this is boring, tune out to the next episode.
We'll just go back and listen to the last episode again.
Like I said, I think if you realize that everyone
has the same insecurities to different degrees, then I think
(18:26):
life is a bit easier for me. It manifests in
the sense that how does it manifest. My brain kind
of works differently but the same. I just think I've
always thought I'm not good enough always. I never thought
from school, I was the fat kid, I was the
(18:46):
ugly kid. I was the gay kid who didn't know
he was gay. That was, you know, picked on for whatever.
I just never felt good enough, and I still don't.
I still often don't feel good enough. Most of the days.
I look like today, I look in the mirror and
(19:07):
I'm like, all I can see is fat, All I
can see is ugly. All I can see is my
fifteen chins. And I'm not saying that to get compliments,
to say, hey, Jmo, you know, I don't need you
to pat me on the back. That is where my
brain naturally goes and I've done a lot of work
on myself, so I know that a lot of that is.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Like body dysmorphia. Yes, how do you feel about therapy
and mental health work? I know you've done, so I
have to do it. And I you know, at the moment,
I'm in a pretty good spot because I'm very self aware,
like so self aware it's ridiculous, isn't that that? I think, Yeah,
that's okay. Maybe I'm too self aware.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I'm an open book.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I walk and go, hey, yeah, I've got depression and
I've got ADHD and.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
And people like, holy.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Fuck, who is this?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Dude?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
What the ship?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
But don't you think self awareness and like the commitment
to whether it's therapy or some form of mental health
work is essentially a superpower. Like people will say to me,
watcha keda success, and I on the days I definitely
don't feel successful, I'll be like therapy and like and
and sitting in the ship and like sitting in the
discomfort and getting a non biased opinion to be like, hey, actually, yeah,
(20:20):
that is your body's I look. I looked in the
mirror this morning and was like, you're fat, like full,
you're not.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
But do you know what I'm shook it by your hair.
But you've dyed your hair black.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah you're not. You're not a fan of the black hair.
I just don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
It's just really thrown me.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Do you know what made me actually do it? It's
so embarrassing. I watched Riverdale and I thought Cole Sprouse
was so hot, and I figured out he was naturally
blonde and had dyed his hand black. And I was like, well,
the blue eyes with the black hair, that's great. I'm
just not used to it because that picture on the
wall there is not blonde. I'll be back there, so
fun just mix it up.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yeah, but anyway, I hear you.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I know we all feel this. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
I've done a lot of therapy. I'd like to do more.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
My favorite therapy that I did was sort of disguised
as yoga retreat in Romania, Romania with a girlfriend, and
so I went there and did a week of yoga.
I can I can't even sit cross legged. So this
was just ridiculous and weird.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
And there was talk therapy as well.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
No we didn't, we just did, you know, the basics,
but we ate vegan food and I don't trust vegans.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
It freaks me out, Oh, well, you're not a first
person to say that.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I mean, I do trust them, but it just like Vegan,
like everything tastes like cardboard.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
That's so funny. Okay, So right before we hit record,
I was like, oh, I'm going to see you ex recording.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yeah shit, I thought we were recording.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
But we were talking about your upcoming book and you
were like, well, I'm so scared what if it doesn't sell?
And I think it's this idea of or what if
people don't like it, or what if it's a failure.
And I think that, like anyone that does anything creative
that is effected like that, they put their heart on
the line. I think there's always that like oh what if.
(22:06):
Like I'm in acting school in LA. Every time I
put a scene up, I'm like, oh, what if I
bomb right now? Like what if this is the worst thing?
Like what if I'm the oldest person in the room,
like all this shit, social media, all of those things. Look,
I'm shitting myself right now. Because the book's out in
a few weeks and you can do a tour. I'm
(22:26):
going to do a little bit of a tour and
I haven't even.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Got that far yet. I don't la.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Doing books is you know, it's all in the smell
of an oily rag and you just do what you
can do. So I, yeah, I will do stuff, but
I'm begging, borrowing and stealing. It took you a while
to get your book deal, right, It took four years,
And part of that was I wrote it and then
I just chucked it in the draw, yeah, metaphorically. And
(22:53):
then I spoke to one big publisher and they drag
things on for about a year and they're like, actually,
not sure that's for us at the moment. Okay, very
fucking much, because it was for you six months ago
when you were telling me you were interested.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, there's a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
And then I go to another publisher and they're like, oh, yeah, actually, yeah,
we are interested. Let me sit with that and we'll
have this meeting with that, meaning they'll take this to
this person and they'll take it to that person, and
that goes on for another six months.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Right after you, I'm interviewing Candas Fox's our most celebrated
crime fiction author. Two hundred rejection letters. Yeah, like so
I don't And that's the thing, like, and that's why
I'm excited to talk to you about rejection as well,
because I think we see like JMO, like, yeah, you're
interviewing like sure, Madonna like all these incredible Jane Fonda,
by the way, was she amazing lover? I'm obsessed, lovely
(23:44):
kind lovely.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
I mean, look, they're doing media, right, so I'm not
hanging out in their kitchen just having a chin wag
over a couple of teas.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
So it's.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
It's it's a very controlled situation. Share is incredible. Really still,
I've met her that many times. I still don't even
know how to say it. Name probably is sure.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
I don't know either, Share.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Sure, you've got a good American accent going on you there.
But didn't you do it? Wasn't Averill Levine that she
was hungover and.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
You guys just like a couch?
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, how did you do? Was that in the book?
That wasn't in the book? That was your research? A
jeep dive. I'm such a nerd.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
I'm so terrible.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I don't do any research. When I go into an interview,
I have a look quick look at Wikipedia. I know
roughly who the person is, and I'm like, yep, cool,
what are you doing? And I throw it all on
them and then when they this is my I'm letting
my secrets out, and when they don't have anything, I'm like, yeah,
but come on. No. I did that with Jeremy Piven
the other day and I said to him, right, so
tell me what you're gonna you know, what's funny? What's
(24:40):
what are you going to do on stage?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Stand up now?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
And he's like, well, why don't you put.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
A bit of luber on first before you throw into
getting me tell you what's what's funny.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
We'll get some ammal as well. Thanks mate?
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Did you say that? Yeah? How did he take it?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah, fine, kind of a bit of banter, but it
was a bit dry humor. No, I love it. I
love it. Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Avril Levine and I we did an interview in London.
She was hungover as fuck and we're in this amazing
suite and it's just really end up just lying on
the couch. I can't remember if I was hungover or not,
but yeah it was. She was very hungover.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
But this is what and what you said about this
was like it was just so real. It was like
you got this real moment. It wasn't You're usually interviewing
people when they're on this media junket, and so the
answers are often rehearsed.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
On the stupid American publicists and the control of that stuff. Yeah,
sorry to stupid American publicist. You're not all stupid, just
some of you are very controlling and that does more
damage than good.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Can I say some of my favorite interviews I've done
with people in America and they've had no mind is no?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Do you find like when people are just they are
the easier they are to deal with?
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Probably?
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Don't you reckon?
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Often? Not always?
Speaker 1 (25:52):
So how on earth did your pod come about? Because
you're such a natural speaker. But we're talking now, so.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
You know the podcast came about because I was kept
getting rejections about the book, so you like stuff this
and I'm like, you know what, this is a really
important message.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
We're all mental as anyone.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I don't know if the book, what's going to happen
with the book, but I still think there's stories to
be told in sharing our common thoughts around mental health
and do we have similarities?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
And that was my idea.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
And so I spoke to a girlfriend of mine, Lucy
and Sarah, two girlfriends, they're two different people.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
They don't know, it's not.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Someone with marsh and they're like, you know what, let's look,
what do you do the podcast?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
So I met with Darcy who produces the podcast, and
it just felt right, and we dived in and do
you dive in or do you dive in? Both dived
We jumped in and I'm the journalist asking this question,
catching myself and meetating myself on the way, and I
(26:57):
felt this strange sense of clarity and validation that that
that I was on the right track and that what
I thought was right, Like it was sort of in
my head like I thought that, yeah, that's what it is,
but then it was true. And Guy Sebastian was opening
(27:17):
up about incredible things in his life and insecurities, and
Michael Clark as well, and Robert Irwin and Jackie o
Midlissa Leon.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
You know, how do you find long form interview because
that's quite different to what.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
You're It's not a gotcha situation either, So you know,
you just say to people, don't talk about anything you're
not comfortable with. I'm not going to push you in
that direction. If you don't feel comfortable, then we're not
going to go there. Mental health is such a personal thing.
So the podcast came out and I funded at all,
(27:52):
you know, I had some sponsors, which was amazing, and
then it came out and I did a season launch
and on the day that I did the season launch,
I was carrying bottles of booze that I was that
I'd bought from BWS and just doing it all myself.
And I got an email fell into my inbox and
(28:15):
it was a woman by the name of Jordan Lott
and she works at why oh yeah, I know she
used to work in podcasting, and she said, you interested.
We've been looking at this, We've noticed your podcast. Are
you interested in writing a book for us?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
She's lovely, she's amazing. Oh what a good person to
champion you.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
And so I.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
We jumped on the phone immediately because I had a number,
and I said, well, I've alread written it.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
And so the book that i'd written was just my story.
And so we went back and forth and back and forth,
and that was basically a year ago. Things don't move
quickly in publishing.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
But that's always say it's twelve months like giving but
not that I have had a kid. But it's like
you signed the contract and then it's usually on sale
twelve months later.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, so that was a year ago that we had.
It was a year ago in July that we had
that conversation.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
And it'll come out June twenty and it'll come out.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
In June twenty five.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, so it actually moved pretty quickly for me because
that was a conversation.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
We didn't sign.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Until oh, I'm wrapped for you.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
I'm a team very good with the day. So yes,
what Jordan's been incredible and got an awesome editor, Kerry
London who's based in New Zealand, who has been going
through my copy and how.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Good is it as a creative having a team that
champions you, whether it's pod, whether it's book, whether it's
I think it's really important to have the people around
you that believe in you, especially when you're sharing something
so vulnerable that is your not just mental health journey,
but I feel like you're sharing your like what's and
all truth.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I think they'll think I'm a lazy author as well,
because Kerry when I was, when she was editing things,
she can here's a suggestion for this, and I'm like.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Sure, like I'm not precious about any of that. But
that's a way to get a good book.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
And I'm like, I trust you. I've been journalisming for
years and years and years. I'm not precious. Here you go,
here's what I've done. Tell me what you think is
going to work. Because I can't look at the bigger picture.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
I just find it.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Even now, I find it impossible to see the whole picture. Really,
I find it.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Really you're more like specific folks. I'm going to dive
into the chapter and carry fisher. I'm going to dive
into the chapter on a donna. I'm going to dive
into the chapter on suicide or ideation or whatever you know.
And then but I can't.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
I can't. I can't.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
I struggle to see how the whole thing works.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I can.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
I am the.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Opposite of you. I have to see big picture and
work back. I've got five year plans, ten year plans,
Oh my god, freak, control freak. Whereas I feel like
you always.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
You were talking about packing for coming to Australia, and
You're like, I've got to pack and then repack, and
then I've got this many books on this and the other.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
I've got books that I haven't.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Finished reading from six months ago and whatever they were
be stacked up next to the bed. I'm going to
Melbourne tonight just for the night. I've got a massive,
like the biggest suitcase, and I just threw it all
in there.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
No, absolutely not. Did you fold or roll any of that?
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Definitely didn't fold.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
You just threw in.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah, like three pairs of I'm going for one night,
three pairs of undies. But that's a pair of So
now if you's to weather this event, I'm going to
tonight a couple of pairs of shoes. It's the Grand
Prix Glamor on the Green event. Of course it's black tie.
I'm not going to I'm just not feeling black tie.
So I'm just gonna wear what I feel comfortable in
and fuck it.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yeah, okay, So this is something that I love about
the pod. Whenever I interview a creative that is leader
of their field, I imagine, imagine if like a twenty
year old aspiring journo was listening to this, what advice
would you give for like some young gum being like
I want to be a JMA or I want to you.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Know, don't fucking do it. Journalism is a really interesting
world right now. I don't want to get political, but
you know, we're in a Trump world. I think truth
in journalism and storytelling is really important. So we need
(32:14):
young journalists who are have strong, strong.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Self value values and morals.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Morals, but they also need to remember that your job
as a journalist isn't to tell your story. Every young
journalist that comes through wants to have an opinion. I'm like, mate,
you earn an opinion. Opinions like assholes, We've all got them.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Where's your line? Where's your ahole line?
Speaker 2 (32:39):
How many times do I pull that all every interview
You've done it? And so, but it's everyone wants a fuck,
everyone thinks they've got an opinion. So I think it's
journalists you've got to really pay your dues and do it.
I joke by saying don't do it. But it is
a tough industry. It's not an industry that you earn
(33:00):
a lot of money. It's a highly stressful, highly stressful environment.
It is. It is challenging because sometimes you have to
write about things that are really difficult, maybe things you
don't agree with, you know, if I'm a gay. I
did an interview with Anthony Mundine in South Africa when
(33:22):
I'm a celebrity, to get me out of here. And
he in the show, he was talking about his views
on homosexuality, and in the interview straight to face to face,
he basically said that that that it's wrong and.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
In his belief that.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Gay people shouldn't shouldn't be What do you say, Well,
I'm not there to censor him, so I wrote the story.
Anthony Mundine says, x y Z. I can't remember the
exact quote, so I don't want to a legal issue that.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
I think.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
He said later that I misquoted him because he meant it.
You know, he's got gay friends, so he knows gay
people and they're fine something. But anyway, it's a tough
industry and it's also changing dramatically. But so is radio,
so is podcasting, so is supermarketing, so is everything in life.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Very fast, the world is a quick moving because I
think from what you've said, journalism pod like writing books.
I do think that it's a real resilience game as well,
and like being able to like stand, not to get
too whimsical and yogi on you, but like stand in
the fire and just stay calm, keep moving forward.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
There were times that I wasn't like Lucy and Sarah
and my friend David as well my partner Alex.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
When I was like, you know what, that's another rejection.
I can't handle any more rejection.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
I'm a failure. They're like, no, no, no, We'll go
to the next one.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
How good? How good having those people like those people.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
It's just they just haven't seen it yet.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
You know. They kept referring to Harry Potter, author whatever
her name is, the JK transphobia, Yeah, woman, and how
many rejections she got.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
So I'm not luckying myself to her by any means
at all. Are we going to get a wizarding book next?
I'm not doing this to become some big old your
relationship with fame, I feel like, because you're like, I'm
not doing this for fame. I don't need to be known,
like you say, You're very open about that.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
You're like, I like being recognized for the work that
I do, and I like people to.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Know that. And yeah, I mean I've had times where
I've gotten a buzz out of people going, oh, you
got that guy that I saw on X y Z.
Normally it's a homeless person that's got my head that
they've picked up. They've picked up the paper, and there's
my head in the newspaper, and there's my dinkersh. I
know you.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Like you like the fame game that much. As far
as for yourself, it just.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
I mean, what is fame. It's just a stupid concept.
I want to be recognized and acknowledged for doing good
things in life. But I have to say, and it
goes back to what I said before about doing the
podcast and then the book and whatever. I love being
a journalist, but the work that I've done in having
conversations around mental health is the most important.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Stuff that I've done in my life.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
If I got hit by a bus today, I would
hope that that's what I'm remembered for, not for writing
a story about some person on Home and Away and
there's no dissingc to Home and Away.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Well, I think as well. I took this from your
intro of your book. It's like telling a story in
an accessible way, and I think that's what the part
is for you. And I think that that going by
the intro is what your book will be like, sharing
that honesty really vulnerable, but also in a way that
people can pass. But see themselves or relate to it
in some way.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
The book has everything you know, being sexually abused, it
has suicide attempts, it's had, it's got everything in it,
and it does have a smattering of celebrity stories.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
But I felt that if I wasn't gonna.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
If I expect people to be truthful and honest with
me in conversations that I have with them as my
day to day in my day to day journalism, then
I can't There's no point in doing a book if
I'm not going to tell the truth. People are like
my partner, even my twin sisters, like, oh but what
if what if you you admit that you take drugs?
That you took drugs in it? Yeah, So like, yeah,
(37:43):
I've taken cocaine. Yeah, I I've done excessive things and
I'm not necessarily proud of those things, but it's who
I am.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yeah. So you're just like basically like, here I am.
Take it or leave it? What is your goal for
people reading book?
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Like?
Speaker 1 (38:00):
What do you want them to take away? Just see?
Like I'm going to.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
See the message as simple as that message if the
message is just we're all not as different as we
think we are.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
We're all a little mental.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, we are all mental, and I think mentals. I've
actually got tattoo, I know, I saw. I just I
think mental is such a cool word and let's celebrate it.
It's like I hated the word queer when I was younger,
and you please hear me say that in a million
of my podcast too. I hated it because it was
always other. So mental was always seen as a negative thing.
(38:33):
And I've proclaimed it and where it is this beautiful
badge of honor of you know, like yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
The tattoo is the same font as yeah, yeah, how good?
Don't changing the font then?
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Yeah? But I like the font anyway, so it can
you know, there's other tattoos. I'd get rid of that one.
I'm I'm happy to keep Jamo.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
I have loved having you on this Pard. That's a
wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always, thank
you to our guests, and let's continue the conversation on Instagram.
I'm at Yamo Lollerberry. This potty my word for podcast
(39:14):
is available on all streaming platforms. I'd love it if
you could subscribe, rape and comment, and of course spread
the love.
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