742. Fearlessly Failing: Podcasting 101 with Claire Rozario

PODCASTING 101

How to PODCAST with Claire Rozario: 
Ever wondered about podcasting? or had an idea for a pod but not too sure where to start or what to do. Well my podcast manager Claire Rozario and I have your back. 

So strap yourselves in for podcasting 101! Here's some really cool things i learnt in this chat:

• the difference between branded content Vs independent content
• formatting
• genre
• podcast longevity
• what keeps your shows spark alive
• common podcasting mistakes
• the future of podcasting
• advice for people who want to start a pod
• 
  Hope you find this chat as beneficial as I did!
  You can follow Claire here: https://www.instagram.com/claire_rozario/
  You can follow me here: https://www.instagram.com/yummololaberry/
• Big love,
  Lola 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Get a. I'm Lala Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter,
and professional overshaer. This podcast is all about celebrating failure
because I believe it's a chance for us to learn,
grow and face our blind spots. Each week, I'll interview
a different guest about their highs as well as their lows,

(00:26):
all in a bid to inspire us to fearlessly fail. Hello,
pod family. I wanted to say, pod kidlets, we have
a really exciting app today, And this took a little
bit of arm twisting. If I'm honest, I know Claire

(00:47):
won't mind me saying that. Now. Claire Asario is essentially
who I work with quite closely on any kind of
brand partnership with my Potter Rooney, feel usly failing, So
I said to Claire, I was like, can we do
an app about podcasting? One oh one? Formatting, longevity, common mistakes,

(01:12):
what keeps the pod spark alive? The future of podcasting,
advice for green podcasters. Separate to this, I coach people
on podcasting and so these are questions I get asked
all of the time. It was really cool to see
it through Claire's lens because her and I come to

(01:34):
podcasting through different not perspectives, well, yes, perspectives exactly so,
because Claire kind of has a very like I don't
want to say broad, but she is in charge of
strategizing senior podcast partnerships. She's a senior podcast manager. She

(01:56):
works closely with Talent branded content partnerships, so she's kind
of got that hat and brain on, whereas I'm looking
for an epic voice, an epic story, how someone spark
or passion. So it was really really cool to just
have an honest chat with Claire about podcasting today where

(02:18):
she sees it going, what she thinks works. And it
was just nice to see this side of Claire as
well because we worked together professionally, but this kind of
felt like two mates hanging out, and we did. If
you listen to the pod on Friday, we caught up
the day before and really brainstormed and fleshed out this

(02:41):
episode ahead of recording, which you often for those that
are pod hosts listening, you don't often get the luxury
of doing that. You don't always get to have a
pre interview with a guest, sometimes totally, but not always.
So Claire gave me a lot of time. So thank
you from the bottom of my heart clear to you
the listener. Hope if you've just so many people say

(03:04):
to me, I've got this idea for a pod, I
think I could really do it. There's so many pieces
to the pod puzzle. The first thing I tell people
is it really can feel like a full time job,
and it takes a while to build your audience and
so it's not like necessarily going to bring in tons
of revenue straight out of the gate. So there are

(03:26):
so many parts to podcasting that I hope we unpack
for you in this episode. Also, just aside from this episode,
I am subscribed to this newsletter. I don't even know
how I got subscribed to it, and this email got
sent to me a couple of days ago and I
was like, oh my goodness, I've got to share it

(03:47):
with you guys. And it says, don't start a podcast
if dot dot dot number one you just want to
share your thoughts. You need to ask yourself as what
a specific problem your podcast solves for listeners? What progress
do they make after listening to what you have to say.
I was like, oh my god, it's amazing you think

(04:08):
that podcasting is easy money. This is the second don't
start a podcast if again, this is separate to our
chat today, but I just thought it was really fascinating,
and in this email they've said, here's the reality. And
I could be totally wrong here, but again this is
just the email that I got Sam. The average podcast
needs three thousand to five thousand downloads per episode to
attract decent sponsors, and these numbers are kind of on

(04:32):
the lower end most podcasts, and I think Claire talks
about that the amount of podcasts that do really well.
Most podcasts never hit over one fifty downloads per app.
I had no idea. So you don't want to be
coming to podcasting for like a quick money fix. Treat
your podcast as a relationship building tool, first revenue stream seconds.

(04:54):
This is again obviously i'd say an American company. Number three,
don't start a podcast if you can't commit to consistency. Now,
I know Clarea and I talk about the importance of
consistency and how often you bring a pot out and
are you doing you know, a series or a seasonal
podcast or if you're like Philsley failing and we bring

(05:15):
out three episodes a week, so it Philsey failing is
a real baby. But remember, like if you're going to pod,
it's a little bit like social media or substack, like
you want to stay consistent, you want to commit to
your audience. Hey I'm here and I'm going to be
here for you to listen on your Monday morning walk

(05:36):
or you know, your Wednesday AVO coffee pickup you know,
or kid pickup. You know. Really interesting. So the fix
they say in this email is start with a really
realistic schedule you can maintain for at least six to
twelve months. Bi weekly is better than weekly if weekly
simply isn't sustainable. So that's good feedback becase those a

(06:01):
lot of people I coach on podcasting don't know about
the consistency thing and that it should drop around the
same time each week. And you can totally pre schedule
all of this too. And I always say to people,
have six episodes in the can before you start rolling
them out, because an inevitably guess will cancel, bookings will change.
And so if I mean next week, I have an

(06:23):
amazing guest coming on the pod, we're filming the whole thing,
and that it has to be edited and drop the
following Monday, which is a very tight turnaround. We're doing
it as kind of a one off to time in
with his feature film being released. But that's not normally
how I would normally, I would record three weeks to
a month in advance ideally, but you know, you know,

(06:46):
life is, you know, a rollercoaster, So if you can
get ahead, I would say, definitely get ahead. Okay, the
other fourth point, I think there's only two more. Don't
start a podcast if you don't have a clear message.
And I love the fix for this, complete this sentence.

(07:07):
My podcast helps specific person achieve specific outcome by specific
unique approach, So I'll do it for feels failing. My
podcast helps inspire people to achieve their dreams by empowering

(07:30):
them to go after what scares them in like a
career capacity. I would say, so my pot is all
about like evoking that inspiration within you. Two go after
the stuff that you like you'd be doing if nothing
else mattered. That Like don't we call it dama in yoga,
that passion? Right? Oh, final point they got more. Oh

(07:53):
my goodness, they're saying don't don't do a pod. They're saying,
don't do add if you don't have a back end system.
So like make sure some people like, even when I
started item wasn't really good at doing show notes. You know,
make sure your show notes are there, make sure it
links back to your Insta or your website, whatever it is. Like,
just be prepared and be like a bit virgo about it.

(08:14):
I'm a virgo, so I can say that, don't start
a podcast if you're starting it, because everyone says you
should ask yourself, what would you record episodes on even
if only ten people listened. If the answer is no, wait,
do we have a stronger why? So? I think get

(08:35):
really clear on why you're creating and Claire actually talks
a lot about this, Get really clear on why you're
creating a podcast, what is the purpose of it, Because
also you want it to be sustainable for you. You
want to be able to be in there for the
long haul, because some weeks you're scrambling for guests, and
other weeks you've got guest coming out of ears and

(08:56):
you're six weeks ahead. And so you have to love
it to be able to carry it when it feels
like leaner times, if that makes sense, and you do
want to be able to carry it through those times,
because again we come back to that first point or
second point, Consistency is key. Anyway, that was a very
long winded introduction, but Claire is here to help you today.

(09:20):
I am here to help you of course as well.
Reach out on Insta or email me any of that stuff.
If you've got more questions about podcasting, totally here to help.
I love coaching people on podcasting. It's one of my
favorite things I do. And I love deep diving and
understanding people's pods. We talk about sound quality, genre anyway,

(09:43):
Claire and I dive into all of this. I'm going
to stop waffling on. Hope you love this chat. Claire.
You're wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing so much
of your time not only on this pod, but also
in preparation for this podcast, and I love working with
you so happy days. Thanks guys, make a love go
out and the stuff you love. Boy, Welcome to the pod.

(10:06):
Clare Rosario. Did I nail that? You nailed it? Okay,
So you're my pod Let's just straight away, you're my
pod manager. I sound very light, but you are the
senior podcast Partnerships and senior manager. Here. Can we say here?

Speaker 2 (10:25):
Where we are? Aaron, We're in the studios.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
I help podcasts yeah, in these can I say, very
fancy studios. When I live in La I rock up
and Americans literally think I have a gun case, like
and it's got all my mics and no, literally they're like, oh,
cute gun case. Like if I'm walking down the street, Yeah,
and I pull and I've got my two road mics,
like I've got my little recorder. So this feels like

(10:48):
the ritz. I gotta be real delighted to have you there,
and thank you for saying yes to doing this, because
I know it's an I know it's not ask you.
You're the queen of all things behind the scene, and
I've really put you on the spot today and so
to the listener, we want today to be a little
bit of behind the scenes of podland. If you've got

(11:09):
an idea for a pod or you know, when you're
just like, oh, I think that'd be a really cool
thing to do, but I don't know where to start.
We have you this is this is the goal of
this EP is to just shine a light on podcasting
and hopefully make it a little understandable for people that
are kind of like, Okay, well where do I start?
But also your big that you're amazing, And the reason

(11:31):
why you and I get to work together so much
is like branded content and brand partnership. So we're going
to deep dive that as well. But first, how on
earth did you get into pollots?

Speaker 3 (11:42):
I love this and full disclaimer at the start, like, yes,
I feel a little hoop. Okay, full disclaimer at the start,
I do feel weird being on this side, So thank
you for inviting me to be hair. I work so
much on podcasts, but I am never the person behind
the mic in my current role, so.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
It does feel a little weird sitting in front of you.
I feel a little nad but.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
You yeah, Like we talk to the fart about podcasts
all the time whenever we get together. We could honestly
have a lunch for five hours and we struggle to
finish it, don't we.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
And we send each other pods we're listening to after
I'm like, oh, listen to this comedy pod and you're like, oh, well,
this true crime pot is amazing, Like, so don't be nervous,
just treat it like we're just missing the smash jabbo
on post Eggs right now, which we did have yesterday.
And so yeah, I just really want to know, obviously
for the Aussie's listening and the Americans listening, you have
an accent. So what honest brought you all the way

(12:36):
to Australia being like, all right, I'm going to work
in podcasts.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
One hundred percent. So I love that you can still
hear my accent. I'm holding onto it for their life.
I've been here nine years now and I think I've
developed a slight Ossie twang. So I've heard but every
time I go back, I kind of absorb it back
into he reset researt the English accent. So I've been
working in radio four years. I've always been interested in it.
I think it's one of those jobs that you end
up getting involved and you do every thing under the sun,

(13:00):
like you have to be on the street team. That's
like the badge of honor when you work in radio,
and then you just try everything. I think I was
like young and hungry, and I just did a lot
of things that I probably.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Had no right in doing.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
You know, I was a news report, I was interviewing bands,
I was producing content I shouldn't have been. I mean,
the worst thing that I did was being the sports
reporter of the radio station, and I a lot of things,
but I do not know anything about English sport, Like.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
That is hard and like names of players or like cricketers.
Maybe I'm guessing with English sport, I don't know rugby
and football was the soccer soccer, Yeah, yeah, guys.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
But I would show up to matches and I would
interview the players and the coach after they just played.
And I would be with these like professional journalists, and
I mean it's a very male dominated industry at the time.
Who know the sport insideer now? And I would just
ask questions with like little to no understanding of what
just happened, Like I still don't know the offside, Like
I do not know.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
I'd literally be like, so, what are you can aid
after the match?

Speaker 2 (13:55):
How good does that kick?

Speaker 1 (13:57):
Is it good? Have you got your lucky socks and
andies on today? I wouldn't know what to ask. Oh, wow,
how old were you when you're doing that?

Speaker 3 (14:04):
Or early twenties? We just maybe just turned twenty. Yeah,
it was my first job in radio. But that's the
beautiful thing. I think if you do something you know
unique in you and you're in the middle of nowhere
and you're just trying it out and you're giving it
a red hot crack. And I think that like bled
into my love of this industry, how you can just
do so much and it's so varied, And then it
bled into the love of podcasts, which is so similar.
It's just such a varied, interesting industry. It's a wild beast.

(14:26):
I think that's what makes this podcast kind of behind
the scenes a bit of insight, because it's just so
much bigger and diverse than I think people expect it
to be when you're at home listening to a podcast.
But yeah, So I moved over to Australia and I
worked at another radio station and we were doing branded
podcasts on the side, which I wouldn't say is the
most interesting of all the podcasts that you could be

(14:46):
working on, but it was fascinating to be able to
do it from my side of things, like I love
that creating organic content. Trying to find a way to
blend it with a client's campaign messaging is like my
and I'd have to match.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
The values of the pod as well, right, and like fine,
because it'd be like weird if I was doing an
ad for alcohol or seas or something like that and
you're like, oh no, no, no, you got to find.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
The right fits, right yes, and the right hosts who
are like the right people to talk about things with
the right chemistry. So I did that for a few years,
and then I've been an Aeron for coming up five.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Years working in this space.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
So I was the second full time employee in the
podcasting team, and we now had many over that time,
but we were, you know, building it from the ground up,
kind of the startup mentality and this big organization who
are also kind of leading the industry. It's a fascinating
time and I'm so privileged to be a part of it.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Oh my goodness, Okay, And.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
That leads me to get to work with you.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
So now I'm podcast manager and I get to work
with amazing talent, amazing content creators and amazing shows and
you especially.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
I hope it continues for many years to go.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Ye, well we figured out we've been together for yonks.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
Now it has been I think come up to three years.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
It's got to be three years because this part where
do you know that when almost at seven hundred apps
and feel as you failing.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
Crazy so good, it's such an achievement.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
Just just running at it, my friend, Okay, so I
want to know because you have a job that is
I imagine so layered, so complex. So we're going to
dive into like the difference between like branded content kind
of versus a bit more we do here on this potto.
But what is like the stuff that you love about

(16:22):
your job and then what are the things that are
like quite challenging about your job?

Speaker 3 (16:27):
Well, what I love about my job, the main thing
would be the people I get to work with, the talent,
the content creators, the shows. It's such a privilege to
be able to partner with these amazing people like yourself
and get to work with you every day. It's just
amazing and exciting. Another thing that I love, which probably
also blends into the challenge, is that every day is
completely different, Oh.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Roller coaster every day you come to work.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
It's actually, if I'm honest, every hour is completely different
of what we're doing and what we're working on. But
that's exciting. Like I've always hated being bored, my brother says,
I've been like restless since I was born, And I
think that's why I.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Work in my industry like this how good.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
I can sometimes see what's challenging about the job as well,
is that, like you you do have to try and
keep up and you're constantly learning, you're constantly involving, And
I mean it's the same for you with creating the podcast,
like how much it's changed and how much you're always
trying to stay ahead and stay diverse, and it's it's
a good challenge to have because it keeps you on
your toes.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Is it hard also, like managing different personalities, Like you've
got the talent because you and I work really closely together,
say we do bring in a branded campaign or a partnership,
is it hard to manage like my values as their
talent and then to make sure that the client is
really like happy And then often I imagine there's a
media agency in between that as well. So you've kind

(17:37):
of got to keep potentially I'm guessing like quite a
few parties pretty happy and all with the common goal
at the end of the day as well.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yes, you are working with multiple stakeholders and everyone has
just completely different goals and objectives. And also it's just
everyone is learning, Like you don't understand it of some
of the time, so you're constantly trying to explain it
and showcase it and do it best way. I think
knowing the talent is the biggest secret weapon I have
is that, like, I know you so well, I know

(18:07):
what you like and don't like. I know what you
will want to do and won't want to do. So
when you're not in the room with me, I can
champion your morals and your values and what you would
and wouldn't like in a way that represents you well.
And I think that comes from trust and having your back.
I hope that's how you feel about it to be
able to do that, So I don't ever think that's
the hardest part. I think it's explaining that through the

(18:30):
funnel that you just explain there through a media agency
who might not have listened to the show, or might
be booking across multiple podcasts, or might have a really
really clear TVC campaign that they TV commercial campaign that
they want to pull across everything that won't fit that environment.
So you're kind of doing that work about skilling, which
I can find is the harder part to get across

(18:50):
the line.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Talent are amazing. Can't said enough.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
I was going to say, is I'm hearing you talk,
I'm like, oh, you've been an amazing talent agent and
I know that's like a huge chunk of your job here,
but like you can tell that like as talent and
as someone's had different managers over the years, just in
the entertainment industry, like finding the right kind of talent
agent talent manager is it's like a long term relationship

(19:15):
and it can be really like hard to find someone
that's like, yeah, that crazy dream that you've got, I
can I can get behind that, and I can kind
of like see that coming to life, and you need
someone that's going to jump on that train with you.
And if if they don't, you know, and it's happened
to me before where I've just like totally not seen
the same goal as an agent. This is totally outside

(19:37):
of pod world, by the way, And it's this real
lexad moment where you're like, oh, you don't believe in
what I'm really working really hard to do. Like it's
it's gonna be kinder for us both to like focus
on different things. And so please know, like, oh, talent manager,
that's cool. I know it's already your job.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
But just saying yeah, I'm feeling a job off the right,
but I I agree it's completely important and I love
that you've had that experience of working with different people,
Like the knowledge I think is so much power, and
the trust that we have between each other is so
important totally.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
And also the one thing I didn't mention also with
partnerships is like there's a legal team obviously as well,
and so you've got to make sure, especially if there's
brand messaging, it can often be a little bit of
red tape and making sure the tea's are crossed and
the eyes are dotted, and the script for the listener, Like, well,
if we do an like an ad within a pod off,
sometimes it can be baked in, but often it's like

(20:30):
pre recorded and it's you've got to get it to
a certain exact amount of seconds, you know, like and
trust me, Like you feel like you're speaking on like
hyperdrive to get all the messages in really really quick
and and go to this website. Now it's really it
feels like an art form. And I'm always like, holy Max,
people must just be absolute pros. And I guess it's

(20:53):
why so much radio has bled over into podland as well,
because there is that skill set too. But do you
find that, like as that part of your role is
you're also managing, Like, there's the also the legal side
of Like, yep, we've got to make sure that that
is every perfect on every single level.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, it's a huge part.

Speaker 3 (21:14):
And the law is always changing. Yeah, like I'm saying,
everything is changing all the time. So what you can
and can't advertise. I think podcasting, you know, started off
the back of radio, so we had some of the
rules that came across and some were different, and they're
changing as we evolve. So I think everything I do,
I always double check, Like I am double checking constantly.
I'm on the edge of anxiety at all times, So

(21:34):
make sure that what we're about to pitch or deliver
or you've just created an ad like, I would never
want to put you at the front line of being
in trouble for anything that we are working on. So
it's my responsibility to find that out.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
And yeah, like we.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
Work with legal and there's there's a lot of gray
area in certain aspects, so you work it through.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
You've got to play the idea all the way.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
Out and feel the content all the way through to
be like is this legally sound and is it good content?
And does it have the client messaging in and does
it sound like the talent.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
There are so many layers.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
But it's so cool. That's what I love. I said
when we were having lunches, I was like, let's just
peel back the curtain on podcasting because I think like
when you hear an AD in the middle of a podcast,
you don't realize how much work has gone into making
sure that ad is like sound, especially if it's host
and host red ad, you know, like and knowing that, yeah,
you're a big part of that behind the scenes, making

(22:24):
sure it's like good and ready to go.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
And also with scripts as well. You mentioned there about
like radio scripts. I think there's this idea that a
radio ad can work perfectly in a podcast format, which,
like some some cases the hardest I can but another
podcast depending on the environment, especially if you're like a
true crime podcast, like sometimes a jarring radio ad might
not have the right placement. And a really serious, really hard,
very emotional podcast, And if you're doing something that has

(22:49):
a lot of terms, conditions, a lot of legal rules
around it, there's also much more emphasis on needing to
read something like the beatim which is just completely different read.
It might not sound like you. It might have like
thirty seconds of teas and seeds and head over here
to rear this, and then the listener's not going to.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Engage as well.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
So you just have all of this time spent trying
to walk that fine line of like, get something good
enough that the listener will stay with it, yeah, and
that the talent will enjoy it, and that the client
will get it and go that's good.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
That worked for us. Lover's results.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
I love this set. I'm learning so much. You taught
me something really cool yesterday, so I'm going to get
you to reteach me. But you were like, listen, I
know loads about brand and branded content, and I was like, well,
hang on, what's fearlessly failing? And you're like, well, that's
more independent content, Lola, And I was like, okay, so
can you teach me just like the difference between the

(23:40):
two and kind of break down what branded content is.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
Yes, So it's kind of the differences of what we
work on together and what we work on a part.
So Lola has her podcast and you have full creative
control over the entire thing, and it's all your content,
all your ideas, it's all you. This podcast is one
hundred percent you. But we work together closely when it's
branded content. So it's like anything that has a client
it and that can be anything from like literally an
ad like we just said, a radio ad sitting in
podcast space, or it could be a bespoke episode, it

(24:06):
could be an event, it could be an interview, it
could be a social post. Like there's so much reach
of what branded content is, but it's just anything that
has that client tag on it and finding the right
space for it. So we've worked closely on a few
campaigns over the years. Now, yeah, hopefully you've enjoyed it. Yeah,
but it's interesting because every campaign you work on its
completely different. It's never going to be you did this

(24:26):
for that client, now you're going to do exactly the
same thing for the next one.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Totally and like, I love the way, so I can
I share some of the ones we've done together. So
we did one recently for my car Tyrone Auto, and
I was like, how on earth are we going? And
I was like cool, Like the messaging was cool, and
You're like, no, no, it's really really cool, Like it's
rechargeable batteries helping out with natural disasters. I was like, again, great,

(24:50):
but who am I kind of interview like and It
was so cool because you went through this like vetting
process of fine, we end up interviewing an incredible psychologist.
Thanks Jamie if you're listening to it was unreal, but
it was so cool the way, like and Claire was like, listen,
I want to make sure that you do a pre
interview first, and like you guys have like it's not

(25:11):
cold going into the interview and you've got like this
already existing kind of like camaraderie or friendship, and it
was just such a game changer. And it was so
cool to see like what you think is an ad
for a Tyrant or like a Tyrant Auto company, and
then see it actually be a really inspiring mental health
piece that we were able to talk about because living

(25:32):
in Byron Bay means you often live through some natural disasters,
one just a couple of weeks ago, and so it
was really fascinating to like the way you were describing
like the nuances behind like the idea and then bringing
that to life. Because as soon as I saw the
egg campaign idea come through, I was like, cool, how

(25:53):
are we going to make this fly?

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Though?

Speaker 1 (25:55):
I'm in, Like I trust you fully, I'm in, but
and just even like the way that you were just
like constantly like there for like I always want to
call it like pre production, like if we were if
it was a theater show or something. It was like
this real like I want to say six week leader.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, you were like really like and then we did
do recorded I think we did social media ads yep, yep.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
We did grabs from the episode, and we did reels,
and then we did ads in the episode as well,
which we're linking to like the information about the client.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
And then you I remember you did this really amazing
thing where you were like and you're going to do
a couple of stories to camera, but you're like, it's
your own words, it's not scripted. You've just got to
make sure you hit this talk point and ask people
listen to the episode. And I was like, say, less,
this is my style of an influence a capagn because
sometimes you'll get an influence a camera and and like
it is, word for words scripted, and as someone that

(26:50):
just likes to speak very like honestly and openly, it
can feel fake and.

Speaker 3 (26:57):
Like you and your listeners will know that they will
see right through it. If you don't sound like you,
they're not going to engage with the content that you're
putting out.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
Right, and so I love that you're like, and this
is where someone like a Cleare is so amazing because
you've come in to be like, Okay, we're gonna do
this campaign. We've got to make sure it's still true
to all and it sounds like it and like it's
rare that I get an influence a gig where it's like, yeah,
go just make sure it's got to swipe up link
and tag the people like because it's so freeing and

(27:23):
I think it has way more cut through with the
audience as well.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
Oh, it definitely does, Like if you can walk that
fine line between it being organic content that delivers the
client's campaign messaging and it still sounds like you the
results will show at the end of it, but it's
just you've got to get everyone on that journey to
all agree that that's the best way to do it.
I mean that example of an episode I loved because
the content was so interesting to the listener, Like as
any listener, even without the client attached to it, you'd
want to listen to that episode because it's diving into

(27:49):
a really relevant topic. There's some hard hitting facts with
a really interesting guest who is amazing at speaking. I
would listen to that anyway, and to have that brought
to you by a client that also has that messaging
attached is the best journey for a listener. But yeah,
that's my favorite kind of content to work and where
I can show those examples where it's like this sounds
like you anyway. Plus it was brought to you by

(28:10):
a client.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
Ah, so good. Let's just keep doing more of that.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
Place my car.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
If you're listening, yes, please now, Yes, I asked you
about formatting a little bit because I tend to for
the listener. This is a long form interview. This is
what we're doing right now, but we also have other
episodes during the week for Feels Fame. The Monday is
a long form interview, Wednesday is a hot seat that
you'll be recording after this. I always record on the

(28:36):
back of the long form interview. And then Friday is
a diary episode that only I didn't want to do it,
like it only exists because someone's like, no, no, like
you share real life on Insta, do it on the
pod and it's so fun and people like because I
live in Lace, We've got to get really smart with
the timing of you know, a Friday diary comes out
in a Thursday RVO in LA and people write to

(28:59):
me like, where's your diary? Are you okay? If we've
missed it by like an hour, I'm like shit. So
the diary has turned into its own little beast like
that runs itself kind of thing. That is just like
a little add on that is so much fun because
all I have usually is like a few notes and
then I'm just like, so went to the movies and
saw this in LA, or went to Air one and

(29:21):
ate this amazing gluten free, dairy free fried chicken, like whatever.
But that is so different to so many other podcasts
that I love and that I consume as a listener,
like coy podcasts. Some comedy podcasts have very specific formatting.
You and I were talking about crime podcasts, like is

(29:42):
it a mini series or you know what I mean? Like,
can you just teach us and me as well about
the different styles of formats that are out there.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
I think before you decide on what your format should be,
the main question should be, but.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
What is your show?

Speaker 3 (29:57):
And obviously it's always evolving, Like you just said, there
you child diary episode and that had great success, so
you continue doing it. You like, learn what the listeners like,
and you followed that. But when you're starting a show,
it depends on what it is. So true crime, for example,
as we talked about yesterday in depth, I used to
be a big true crime girl myself, which fits my
gender and age based on the data, it's what I would.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
Be listening to.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
I used to listen to true crime to fall asleep,
which I would not recommend because it will give you
bad dreams. If you're doing a true crime podcast, it
might be a mini series. If you're only following one crime,
you're going to do a deep dive into it. It doesn't
necessarily have the legs to be this ongoing show, and
often people want to binge consume that kind of content.
It might stick around for a week to the next
one if they're left with a hook, but they might

(30:38):
not always be coming back. If you have a huge
break from the podcast and then launch another story, you're
going to have to find a new way to get
that audience because they rely on your regularity, Like you
just said, like they get used to if you can
fit their listening habits, which is the aim and they
factor you into their day to day, which is the
win for any podcast. You want to be reliable, and
you want to be consistent, and you want to be present.

(30:59):
And if you drop off, go away for long periods
of time or unexpected or don't tell them when to
come back, they might hop elsewhere. So you've got to
you've got to respect the listen.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
We've talked about consistency being a key player when it
comes to successful podcasting in the past and since then,
I don't think I've ever taken a break over.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
You could definitely break every Christmas. I'm not. I'm not making.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
Every year way, every day every year class like you
know you can. You can. You can bank a couple
of Crissy episodes lowly. You don't have to work the
whole way. And I'm like, but there's so much fun
stuff to talk about at Christmas. But you're right, like
it is that consistency piece is like, I know, for
me as a listener, I'm like, oh, great, it's Monday,

(31:41):
or I know what days my favorite podcast come out,
And so I can see why it's really important as
a like, as a tool for building a successful podcast
so that the audience will be like, yeah, I go
for my walk at am Tuesday morning, I know that
that episode's gonna be sitting there. Or Oh, I've got
a shorter commute, I'm going to listen to a hot
you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, that's so important. It's part of the daily lives.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
And now that we all have a bit more I
mean all a lot of people are back in the
office now, people are commuting again, Like our lives are
getting back to more structure than we had over Lockdown,
which was like a boom of podcasting because we were
desperate for connection and desperate for company, and a lot
of us were out of work at the time, so
you just wanted and had more time for content. Now
we're trying to fit back into more of a structured life.
So people need consistency with what they're listening to, and

(32:26):
the time they have to listen to things changes. If
you have an hour long commute, you're probably going to
fit in an hour long podcast. If you have a
daily podcast that you're listening to, which makes more sense
for like a news format, they need to be short, sharp,
and digestible. You've got to listen to that quickly. First
thing in the morning. So you're ready for the day
at work. You're not necessarily going to have an hour
and a half at eight am to consume a huge
news story, and you might not have the capacity at

(32:47):
that point in the day. So it's so dependent on
what the listener is doing with their time, how their
lives are, what's going on in the news cycle at
the time, to how stressed we are, Like what we
want to consume will change based on what's happening in
the world. If we're relaxed, we might want different content.
If we're stressed, we might want to have content that
makes us feel happy.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
It's so Vies, You've got your feel good movies that
like you're like, I know, if I have a bad day,
I will either watch Steve Irwin videos or parts of
the Caribbean don't ask me why, or sometimes Jamie all
Over videos. They're just like J's very relaxing, I know,
and like so much fun to watch, and when he's
calling his own garden and own kitchen, I'm just like,

(33:26):
can I please be your best friend?

Speaker 3 (33:28):
I love that you were saying as well yesterday that
you love to listen to Ricky Gervais back in the day. Yeah,
and that's such a point for me and Steve Merchant.
Before that was like podcasting was a big thing. I
used to have the CD of that in my car
and I would listen to the same one over and
over again because the comfort of the funniness that they
had together and the light, jovial content felt so consistent.

(33:49):
That why I would drive like these long drives between jobs.
I'm just listened to that over and over again. So
my listening habits of change obviously now we're much more
greedy for new content.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
I don't think I would still listen to the same
CD on.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
Repeat as I would have like that, but it shows
how it just feed into my life and it was
a part of like comfort that I was experiencing.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
It's so I love the way you say, like the
news cycle will affect our listening habits, like if something
feels really heavy, will need something often something lighter or
you know, like fine, I had no idea that that
what makes total sense that would impact like I don't
know if you remember with COVID, like even my boyfriend
I are like, oh choose cheeky, choose her night, cheeky
ven o night. I think as is Wednesday night and

(34:27):
so it's just interesting how like when something stressful is
going on, you need those comforts. You need those like
I could have told you every marvelous creation flavor combination
that had ever invented been invented around that time. You know,
Like it's having those weird little comfort things. So it's
so fascinating to me. Like I know as well. I
recently lived through the Ala fires and it was so stressful,

(34:50):
so scary. But I was listening a lot to Smartness,
which is one of my favorite comedy podcasts, And for me,
it's escapism and that lightness that have probably subconsciously needed
when I was going through something really stressful at the
same time. Is that is that kind of what this
news cycle like affecting.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
Us exactly right? Like it changes your habits so much.
I mean, I just look at myself as an example.
It's like I said it as a true crime buff,
I say, it'd be obsessed with it. Now I'm too
stressed to consume it. Like my listening habits personally have changed,
like now I lean towards I mean, my favorite podcast
is to Fall Asleep to now is a comedy podcast
all about food, and I'm not necessarily even like a

(35:28):
huge and I'm listening to that because it just completely
takes me out my comfort zone. I'm just suddenly listening
to someone's dream menu and I'm like, oh, that sounds nice, and.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Off to sleep.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
Like it's cotely changed what I want. To feel connected
and to feel like I have company and to feel calmer.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
And I sent you a new comedy pod.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, and we'll be listening to it.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah, movies to be buried with, so like Brett Goldstein
or talk people through their their death and then hey,
what movies would you want to be buried with? It's
such a weird concept, but it's so like sweet and
light and like relatable.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
I can't wait to listen.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
So that's what's so interesting as well, is like the
format of podcasts could be so varied, like it is
so dependent on what you're doing. Like now, the fantasy podcast,
I wouldn't have said that would have been a big
thing like ten years ago. I'm going to make up
I'm going to make up a fantasy dream menu or
a dream movie or who's your dream.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Guests for dinner party? And that's going to be like
one of the most successful.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
Shows I wouldn't have thought that at the time, but
I think that's just become a trend of its own.
And those podcasts follow a really really strict format, whereas
if you're following like two personalities and they're friends and
they're meeting every week and they're having a chat, that's
completely different. I'm buying into the people. Then I don't
want to hear about the girls. Yeah, I want to
feel like their friend. Yeah, I'm in the conversation with
them to follow their lives through that journey.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
You work on that part, don't you know that you're
referring to life life. When you were saying that, I
was like, yeah, I feel like you're a fly on
the wall having your little morning coffee with the girls.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
Yes, and you you want to stay with them because
you feel like you're a part of their life and
their journey, so you're following it that with them. It
has like such legs in a different way. Yeah, I mean,
they still do have format a format for their show,
and they have different episode releases and everything, but it's
just a very different format to a very produced fantasy
podcast or you know, a strict quiz show or a
news news podcast.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
You know, what you taught me yesterday. You and I
had no idea. I never talked and thought about fearlessly
failing in this life. But you're like, this is a
this is a championing. I can't say that word championing inging.
It's a podcast that champions people. Is that where you
say I didn't even know that was a thing.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
Yeah, you are one hundred percent and your your energy
and your superpower.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
I think it is.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
It's that you make everyone feel comfortable, and then that
makes people open up because you make people feel so
like seen and supported that then you get this beautiful
content from everyone you have on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
They will pull out these stories.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
I don't know that they would share to everybody because
it's your energy that creates that environment.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
That means that's very very very kind of you. Do
you know, just on the behind the scenes and like
peeling the curtain back to the listener, I probably pray
about eight hours per guest, and then I throw that
prep away and I just let it go. Whereas obviously
I've got notes some of Virgo and like definitely got

(38:10):
some kind of control OCD thing going on. But I
guess my point is, like, oh, do all the prep,
all the prep, and then I'll just be like, let's
go whatever direction. Like we the interview that I just
did before you came in. We spent the first ten
minutes with JMO talking about his he had five snakes,
he's now got four. I know all their names on
all the different types of snakes that he rescues. I'm

(38:33):
here for that, right, I'm already interested if I hadn't
done the research and let like and I did know
all this, but like being able to let the research
go is a is like a really like if you
work it's I think it's something I've learned from being
in acting school. But like, do all your prep also
to the listener, take it or leave it. I'm an
over worker, Like I probably work things too hard, do

(38:54):
all the prep, and then let it go, like let
let the guess just take you wherever they want to
take you. And I think that that is a sweet
spot to record this style of podcasts from this long
form holding space for a guest, championing that guest, you know,
like and I think that's and it's less of a

(39:14):
you know, gotcha moment gossip be pod. It's probably much
more like let's celebrate the person that's sitting the you know,
on the opposite side of the mic. To me, does
that make sense?

Speaker 3 (39:23):
It makes perfect sense and was interesting. I'm gonna throw
a question to you. Yeah, now I'm interviewing you. When
you started the pod way back when? Was that always
the format plan that you had?

Speaker 1 (39:33):
Initially? I had someone I can't believe I remember this
coaching me, and they overworked they overworked it, like to
the point that it was scripted, and I remember I did.
I think I did two interviews like that and I
was like, absolutely not. This is the pits and I
and because it felt too structured and I love structure,
but it felt too fake and I feel a bit

(39:55):
allergic to that, like I would rather be straight at
like this is probably an over but like I said
to Claar this morning, fuck, I got sperm salm and
sperm in my eyes, Like I'm gonna have to wear
glasses today for Fiel, which is while I'm wearing glasses
and I'm like, I look because I had all these
bumps under my and You're like, Laura, it's fine. I
can't believe you're ever mentioning it, and I'm like, like,

(40:15):
I'd rather I'd just rather be honest, and so.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
I hope everyone heard you say salmon sperm. I feel
like I said sperm and never just to clarify.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
And so it's like a facial treatment. I got salmon
sperm under my eyes anyway, and apparently it's really good
for the creeping. I turned forty later this year, and
so I'm like, are we going to get rid of
this creeping anyway? And so like, I'd rather be honest
and real, and I just see etiot better, I personally idiot.
That's why I you know this about me. I really

(40:48):
record on zoom, and I know that's a really hard
like and I do living in LA we do it
every now and then. But if I record on zoom,
we do a pre interview. We check the mic and
the audio quality, which brings me to my next question.
Common mistakes in podland.

Speaker 3 (41:04):
So you've already listened to them. My first thing that
I would say is always make sure you have a
good mic. It is so important and it's so important
to test the mic. I mean, our standards of audio
quality is just increase. I mean in COVID, back in
the day, peop would listen to anything. So I think
it definitely dropped then now it is different. Get a
mic test it. Make sure your guest has a mic
and connection as well, I think is important. I think
you get such a different energy if you're in the

(41:25):
room with someone, then you would over zoom. It's not
always possible, and zoom interviews can be amazing, but where possible,
get in the room, get together. A mistake I think
that a lot of people make with podcasting is that
they assume you can kind of pick two personalities and
make them hosts of a show and it will just
naturally work because of their reputation or what's happened before.
They're both journalists or sports stars, so they're just gonna yeah, yeah,

(41:48):
they're just going to make sense, and you put them
in the room and the chemistry isn't there because you
can't necessarily fake chemistry. Well, listeners are so intelligent they
see right through it and they buy into chemistry and connection.
So I think I think that would be a common
mistake I think people make. And another one would be
that I think people underestimate the time that goes into podcasting.
I do think people think we podcasts just show up,

(42:10):
hit record, Oh amazing, an award winning show has just
been creative with no research, and I just put an
hour's work into it once a week and that was it. Like, yeah,
it is so much, as you know, you just said
that eight hours for every guest. But it's research, it's editing,
it's time, it's prep, it's listening back. That would be
another tip I have as well. It's like when you
start a podcast, listen to yourself. Listen to your voice.

(42:30):
I know we find it jarring because we don't sound
like we think we sound in our heads. And I
will have that same feeling when I listen back to
this interview of myself. But you'll get used to it,
and it's exposure therapy. And the more you listen to yourself,
the more you're going to see what you're doing well
and what you're not doing well. Are you interrupting guests
or in putting too much of yourself into a narrative,
or are you you know, laughing at the wrong times,

(42:50):
whatever it is is, there are too many pauses. You
can just really carefully get more edited content if you
listen to yourself, and it's the best feedback loop that
you can have rather than have your audience write it
on your socials once you start to get bigger, which
will also happen like audiences are very engaged now.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
They will tell you what they like and what they
don't like a hundred.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
I don't think you know this, but when I did
my first interview to come to Iheartarn the Big Boss,
the question was do I listen to my own pods?
And I go is that a trick question? How do
you think I find the audiograms? And the response was,
you'd be surprised how many people don't listen to their pods.

(43:30):
But sometimes I will say, like, if it's a raw
episode and we've gone somewhere quite heavy, I've actually got
to psych myself up to listen because I'm like, oh,
I know where that POD's going to go, and or
if like, yeah, it's been just a bit of content,
that's like, oh hard, I really I've got to walk,
I've got to move, I've got to like let it
move through my body as well. It's an art form.

(43:52):
But even just what you were saying about the work
that goes in I always say to people, if you
want it to be, it can become a full time job.
You can put that many hours into it. If you want.
And even last night I was at dinner and I
was like, guys, I'm so I got a jet. I
was like, I got a jet. I gotta get I've
got pub prep to do. And I're like, oh, what's

(44:12):
the interview for Lola? Like no one get, Like no
one really does. And I'm like, oh no, there's four tomorrow,
back to back and I have to be on point
four four of them and.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
I don't turn around in between.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, I don't know, Like it's I think you're right
in that, like it is it an amazing beast that's
always moving, which is what I want to ask you
about NIXT. But I also think people don't really get
to see the amount of work that goes into and
behind the magic that goes into a pod.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
And the number of people who work on things behind
the scenes and different teams that stuff has to funnel through.
And I think the other thing people think is that
I mean, and it has happened to some podcasts an
overnight success. It's a great story. We love to see it,
but it's not everyone. Building an audience takes time, and
it takes longevity, and you've got to be in it
for the long haul and then playing the low game,
and I don't think everyone has enough patience whether to

(45:04):
write it out and to see what could happen. So
it's just like, I think, give yourself the perspective that
you need to put time into it, and you also
need to give it time.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
There's some crazy stat about like, out of all the
podcasts that have ever been started, like a tiny percent
are still going. There's like a mental stat because I
think also probably because of COVID people like Old Old
or a pod, which is totally cool, like plea like amazing,
but it's having that like I don't know if it's

(45:33):
tenacity or resilience to just be like all right, like yeah,
we're gonna go get like because even though we've talked
about like some of the business sides of it, and
like we talked about a beautiful brand partnership that I
got to work on with you, there can also be
gaps of time where it's not brand partnerships and you're
just rocking up and like giving it you're all or

(45:54):
sometimes like as a host, you'll do an interview and
there'll be the guest, they'll be a public they'll be
like their minder and it changes the lawyer. Yeah, it
changes the dynamic really quickly, and you're like, shit, look,
I wanted to ask about this really full on thing
then went through that's out the door, and you like,
I don't know, Like I think it's a I feel

(46:16):
like I've just gone around in the little circle. But
you know what I mean, Like, I feel like it's
is such a moving beast.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
So yeah, and what you said there as well about
the number of podcasts that there are, there's also the
number of podcasts that are profitable is a very small
stat I'm not going to quote that because I'm too
scared of getting it wrong. Yeah, but it's it's a
small stat of who's making a lot of revenue in
this space, and there's there's opportunity for sure, and it's
completely evolving and changing. That's so much of what we
work on is like trying to stay ahead of that

(46:42):
and with the trends and work with you to make
it grow. But that is also not again, most people
aren't getting that success overnight.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
Yeah. I think I think I love that You're like
it's long game because I've known that from day dot
with the pod, and I always I spoke to someone
who recently started her pod in America and she's like,
what advice have you got? And I was like, long game,
and I'm like, and it will reward you when you
least expect it, Like the pod will give back to you,
but you need to give it your heart, like you

(47:10):
need to really like trust and believe in it without
needing a prize at the end, and then those like
beautiful gifts kind of like click into place.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
I think I agree, And I think it's such an
important question to ask yourself right at the start, like
what are you doing the podcast for? Because if the
answer is to be famous, it's probably not the right
motivation to.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
Start a show.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
But if your answer is because it's your passion project,
or you're really interested in the story and you want
to spend more time in that space, or you've got
this great idea and a great format that you think
it's going to be really fun and even if it
doesn't you know, get a huge audience, it's going to
be really enjoyable. You've got to ask yourself what are
you trying to achieve and what's the reason behind the show.
I mean, you and me were talking about this yesterday. It's
like I don't think everyone has a podcast in them,

(47:52):
just like I don't think everyone can be a famous author.
I think it should be story led, like what's what's
the story behind it? And that's why you should have it.
I Mean, my friends ask me all the time because
I love the industry. It's like, why don't I just
make my own podcast? And I don't think it works
like that. That's just like saying why don't I become
an author overnight? Yea, because I like the industry, Like
it has to be like what's the idea and what's
the story and what do I want to get out

(48:13):
of it? And then managing your own expectations and staying
on that path.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Oh yeah, I love that. I also think as well.
Sometimes I'll interview people, and you can interview people and
be like, oh, yeah, they've got a pod in them
or a book. You can kind of feel it when
you're interviewing them by the way they share and their
life trajectory and all of that kind of thing. But
there's also such like it's an art form to getting
really great guests. Like I know you were nervous at

(48:37):
the start of this, but like you've shared really honestly,
really openly, you've helped the listener, You've helped me. I'm
just like, I think, like, you're such a perfect pod
guest because you're here to share something to help people,
and I think, like if you get really clear on
like what each guest brings to the pod as well,
like that's just as important as like like sometimes I

(49:01):
don't go on pods unless it feels right to go,
like as a guest, because I'm like, I don't want
to be there for a gotcha. I don't want to
be there for clickbait. I don't want to be there
to help people or to inspire them or you know
what I mean.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
Yeah, you're doing your own research to see what's going
to happen. Yeah, but I hope that being a guest
on this, even though yes, definitely nervous, I hope it
shows people who are interested in the industry. It's the
same with radio, Like there are other jobs outside of
what people think they are. There are a lot of
behind the scene jobs that no one talks about. Like
I think people think there's a presenter and a producer
and then that's the end of the podcasting industry.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
But there's so much more to it.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
So if anyone's interested, you should get involved and like
see where you land and see what you're interested in.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Oh yeah, and also, and this is a bit of
a not loaded question, but like the podcast beast changes
all the time, all the.

Speaker 3 (49:48):
Time, and we do call it a beast. I think
that's a it's a moving me. It's a moving beast,
a lovable beast.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
But yeah, so where do you see the pod like
landscape going.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
Yeah, that's an interesting question. Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
I've been here five years, and I would say it's
changed way more than I could ever imagine in five years.
So five years from now, I think it will be
like fifty years in the space of podcasting. I think
there'll be so much change. But what I expect to
change right now is like the way the audiences are
consuming podcasts has changed.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
Like they want to see more. So.

Speaker 3 (50:21):
They used to love someone in their bedroom. I mean
they still do someone in their bedroom on a microphone.
You feel like you're there with your best friend right
in the room. But now they want to meet the shows.
They want to see live tours, they want to read
books that they've written. They want to buy the merch
and wear the merch. They want to meet up with
other people who listen to the podcast they've started, Like
these whole communities that people are so invested in, and
I think that will be something that continues on. I mean,

(50:42):
social media has changed so much of course, like the
boom of TikTok, which I'm slightly too old for, is there,
and there's an audience there. So it's like, how are
you working with your content to evolve to meet your
audience's needs, And you need to stay with it. You
need to keep finding other ways to deliver different versions
of yourself to them to keep them along the ride,
keep them interested, and the same with like clients, Like

(51:02):
we've seen clients' education evolve so much, Like they're right there.
People want to be a part of podcasts now they
see that that's the future. So in five years from now,
that could also completely change how people are making money
from the industry.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Oh, I must say, it's so interesting the way you're
mentioned TikTok. I love to watch call her Daddy on TikTok,
but not on Insta, Like I'm really I love the
way she creates TikTok. It's so like it's like the
way you were saying you wine down and I'm like,
all right, Sally, it's Alex Cooper. Right, I'm like, what's
Alex been up to today? Because she updates her TikTok
more than her Insta and so it's so and like

(51:37):
the beast that is like built like where she travels,
she'll build a brand new studio everywhere. I'm like, wow, wait,
but it's just fascinating to like see how social media
works with pods and vice versa.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
And also you're seeing how you like to consume different
versions of content in different places, which is so important,
whether it's branded or your content, organic content, independent content.
Different platforms give you an opportunities to connect in a
different way, and the slightly different audiences that are different
age groups you need to try and appeal to them.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
Yeah, we've got a nice little flash lightning in the studio. Okay,
So say a green podcaster is listening right now, or
someone that has an idea, like I think I've got
this idea for a pod. I don't really know where
to start, and I know we've touched on some like
invest in some good mics and stuff like that. Where

(52:26):
could somebody start that? Because I think there comes when
you've got an idea for something. Sometimes, you know, fear
of rejection and self doubt can get in the way.
What advice do you have to someone that's just like
I think I could do a pod.

Speaker 3 (52:38):
I would say, talk about it to everyone, you know,
So play the idea. Yeah, you need to play the
idea through, not just like I'm going to do a
podcast and it's me. It's like, what's the podcast about.
You need to speak it through enough that you get
to your elevator pitch of what it is, and if
people go that sounds interesting, I'd like to listen, then
you might have a concept. And then you can start
reaching out to everyone in the industry who works on

(52:59):
podcasts to talk to people about podcasts. There's so many
people who would happily give you their time and chat
it through with you. And then you just start, like,
start recording. No one likes their first episode. You don't
even have to release it, but just see how it feels,
get that mic, start recording, see what happens, see if
you can evolve off it, and then get your confidence
by doing that before you start releasing.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
I remember, before or released I got six steps in
the can. Is that still a thing.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Who knows is that sort of thing I'm looking at
producing that in the room? I think she says, two
in the can. It's gone down. You don't need.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
My anxiety could not handle that. Be like, shit, well,
I've only got two weeks ahead. Do you know why
I loved having six epps in the can? I started
in twenty nineteen, So when COVID hit, I knew I
was six weeks ahead of content and it was great.
Obviously I still had to convert to zoom because it
lasted longer than we thought. But at the time I

(53:54):
was like, I had enough content to not have a
gap in episode too odd I could not have to
this day, I could not handle two. But I have
been there. I have danced on that wire of only
two gods ahead. Not fun for me. I like to have,
like you clear your laugh at this.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
This is my I won't be surprised though.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
So these are my pods for the year, and it
goes all the way to the twenty third of June.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Wow, day before my birthday.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
Really, but that doesn't suppose me at all, because I've
worked with you for so many years. You every time
I ask you any question to do with your schedule
or what's happening, or how many interviews you've got in
the books, like it is so thorough.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
You work so.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
Ahead of time, which blows my mind because you are
so busy. This is not, by any means the only
thing you do with your time. And a lot of
the time you've been in LA for a lot of
the relationship that we've had together. So it's crazy the
amount of time you dedicate to the podcast and how
organized you are. It's not how they all work, and
it's dependent again on the guests that you can get
access to. You you have so many connections you've been
able to build on you Reckon.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
I just like literally am like I'm old to the listener.
I will literally DM people and be like I'm a
super fan like Damon Harryman. I watched him in this
Tom Hardy movie called Bike Riders, and I was like,
I saw, I'm a mega fan. Can I please interview?
And he's like, yeah, I live in La too, Come
come round. Love that And next minute I'm sitting in

(55:17):
his laundroom. We're talking about like traveling in and out
of LA all the time. And then the potto happens
and here's a really cool thing about that. If anyone
knows who the actor Damon Harryman, it just googled him
as a Mazillian Australian and American shows, but recently Outful
Dodger and the anyway, He's in pretty much everything. But

(55:42):
I was having a really tough just month in LA
in the last twelve months, and it was just I
got rejected by a manager that was kind of leading
me on forages as a theatrical rep, which means TV
in film auditions, quite different to commercials and voiceover. And
she kind of led me on about six weeks and
then I was like she was like, h so I've

(56:03):
changed my mind. I'm not going to sign you. And
I was like fuck. And I wrote to him after
it because we podcasted like two months before, and I
was like, hey, I'm having a really rough day, Like
any advice, And he wrote me the like sweetest email
and was like, my biggest advice is like is come
back to Australia and do some time in Australia, like
work with both of the worlds, like you don't need
to be planted in one. And he was like for

(56:25):
my mental health and over my mental health is effected.
He's like, I just go back to Australia for a
little while, and I'm like, I was so freeing but yeah,
Like that's another beautiful thing about pods that I don't
often chat about, but like you do get to foster
these really beautiful relationships off the back of having these
great chats with people and so.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
And that's what you can lose if something's quite scripted.
If you followed the format that you initially started with,
I don't think you would have built such strong relationships
with them.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Yeah, I didn't think of that. Okay, I'm gonna make
you feel really uncomfortable. I've got a list of things
I love about you. I had a little squize at
my notes and I was like, other one my list
of things. I guess I've got a little heart here,
and it says things I love about working with you.
You have an ability to hold space for both the

(57:12):
talent and the client at the same time. And like
we were talking about the start, like find that common
ground and having worked with clients before, like on influencer campaigns,
it's not that it's rare, but it's really like the
level of care you have feels so specific to like
you as a human being, and I love that about you,

(57:34):
and I love this You're gentle, but you get shit done.
I feel like that's a really fair assessment of you.
And the other thing, which is your superpower, And I
don't have this at all, so I'm very jealous that
you have this. But you have the ability to see
everyone's POV, everyone's point of view. So you can see

(57:56):
my point of view of being like want to hold
true to my value system, my morals. But then you
can see the client's point of view, the legal team's
point of view. You can see all these point of
views and somehow make it all come together. And I
think that that's a superpower that is specific to you,
and I think that that's where your success comes from.
Is like, yes, you're so caring and you make time

(58:19):
for people, but you can you could You have the
ability to see that, and a lot of people don't.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Well, Like, I'm genuinely touched by that, a little bit choked.
That was so beautiful.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
I really appreciate you.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
Saying all of that stuff. I mean, it's an absolute
pleasure to work with you.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
Well, let's just work together forever? Shall we do it?

Speaker 2 (58:34):
On with the netword.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
That's a wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always,
thank you to our guests and let's continue the conversation
on Instagram. I'm at Yamo Lollaberry. This potty my word
for podcast is available on all streaming platforms. I'd love
it if you could subscribe, rape and comment, of course,

(59:01):
spread the laugh h