October 11, 2025 • 39 mins
From Chocolate Hats to Post-Apocalyptic Fashion: Inside the World of Hollywood Costume Design
Step into the captivating world of costume design with Christopher Metzker, a creative genius who brings characters to life through fabric and detail. In this episode, Lola Berry explores Christopher's remarkable career spanning film, TV, and theatre. From crafting edible chocolate hats for "The Menu" to distressing post-apocalyptic wardrobes for "Fallout," Christopher reveals how costumes tell stories that words cannot. His attention to detail and collaborative spirit have made him a sought-after designer for major productions including "Chevalier" with Austin Butler and Matt Smith.
Timestamps:
06:30 - Behind the scenes of "Chevalier" and creating authentic 90s punk aesthetic
15:45 - The storytelling power of costumes and how they help actors access characters
22:15 - Creating the post-apocalyptic world of "Fallout" and sourcing unique materials
31:40 - The difference between designing for theater versus film/TV
38:20 - The surprising truth about edible chocolate hats for "The Menu"
42:30 - Career advice for aspiring creatives in the entertainment industry
Christopher shares invaluable insights about the balance between creativity and practicality in his work. "The process has its artsy-fartsy time... but at a certain point, the practicality has to become the thing," he explains. His approach combines meticulous planning with artistic vision, all while maintaining kindness that keeps him in demand.
Ready for a fascinating journey into how the clothes we see on screen help tell stories? Listen now to discover the incredible craftsmanship and creativity behind your favourite film and TV costumes!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Get a.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm Lola Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter, and professional oversharer.
This podcast is all about celebrating failure because I believe
it's a chance for us to learn, grow and face
our blind spots. Each week, I'll interview a different guest
about their highs as well as their lows, all in
(00:26):
a bid to inspire us to fearlessly fail. Hello, and
welcome to the Potteroo. I have got a ripper guest
for you today. His name is Christopher Metzker and he
is an unflippin' real costume designer from Film TV, Big
(00:47):
Hollywood movies. We're going to talk about theater dance. He's
very very humble as well. I'm like, Holly Mack, you've
done so much and he's like, do you reckon? And
I'm like, yeah, you're amazing. You're going to love this chat.
Is very creative and open about that creativity. I think
you'll find it really really inspiring, also because I'm very
(01:09):
open and honest with you guys. We actually did this
interview two days earlier and the files got corrupted. The
SD card was no boro not happy at all, So
thank you so much Christopher for jumping back on the pod.
You absolutely nailed it as you did the first time
as well, and to the listener, I hope you love
(01:29):
this chat. Christopher has worked on so many great projects,
from court Stealing I don't know if you saw that
recently with Austin Butler, Matt Smith, Zoe Kravitz. Also the
incredible TV show The Fallout where he takes us through
all the costumes and distressing those costumes and getting them
(01:51):
to the stage that obviously we see them on the show,
we don't realize like all this hard work that's gone
into it. And then also to like literally edible costumes
on the menu, so you are in for such a treat.
This is our first ever costume designer we've had on
the pod, So I hope you love this chat. Christopher,
You're wonderful. Thank you so much for my friend. All right,
(02:12):
big love, I'm going to say, welcome back to.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
The podcasts designer.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Oh Christopher, you are so flipping wonderful for coming back.
But let's get into this. Christopher Metzga Film TV Theater.
I want to say, dance costume designer. Yes, your resume,
my friend. You know you're literally grimacing to the listener,
(02:39):
He's grimacing as I say, this is incredible, and I
feel very lucky because I feel like we've kind of
been buttos for the last year or so, and so
I get to see stuff behind the scenes on your
instag But I imagine also you're not allowed to share until
stuff comes out.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I must have bout at social media. But yes, like
I should post more, but.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Actually yes, I'm going to say that.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Yeah, you need you can give me all the I
got chips and tricks.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
I got you back.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
So the reason why I wanted to do this pod
with you was I went to the movies, one of
my favorite date day things to do, and I was
watching The Beautiful Austin Butler in Court Stealing and Matt
Smith and Zoe Kravitz, and then I was doing pod
research and I was like, I'm just going to jump
on Christopher's website and that's the first thing that pops.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Up on your website. You worked on that movie.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Yeah, it was crazy.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I was the associate custom designer Amy Westcott design the clothes.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Asked, gosh, this was a year a little over a
year ago now.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
She was in LA and we had lunch and she said,
I'm doing this movie, do you want to come back
to New York and work on it? And I was like,
I've actually already bought the plane tickets, so yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Coming because I remember following you on Insta and You're
posting all this cool punk rock stuff like leathers.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
And and I'm guessing that was.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
All all of that was constealing New York in the nineties.
So we recreated to the Lower east Side, Chinatown, Benny's
Buried as I mean, all these iconic places in New
York City and then the people that live in that
world and getting to let it be gritty and grungy
and you know.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
So and this is I feel like, I feel very
not cheeky, but I feel so lucky that we actually
have had a chat before, so now I feel like
I can tip to have this. You were teaching me
about needing to like when it comes to costumes, sometimes
you need to distress things, like, for for example, even
in court stealing, like Austin Butler's character is his name Benny,
I Like it's Benny or something, but he's always in
(04:38):
fights yea, and so he's beautiful, like he's wearing jeans
and like his name is Hank is his name Hank
even better and he like I imagine like there's gonna be
blood spurts on bits because he gets in fights, or
like there's seem wary vomits.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
You know, like it's all do you have to have
like multiple really.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
You have anywhere from two to twelve to I mean,
if it's like a superhero movie, you'll get twenty four
of a particular thing, so you always have backups, and
you always might have like stages so exactly that like
if someone is in a fight or stabbed or whatever
and the blood is pooling or there's dirt, it'll be
(05:18):
like stage one, Stage two, stage three, and you have
multiples of each of those stages that you can film
it in and out of order. And sometimes you're distressing
it because you film the aftermath before you do the
actual event, so you're like anticipating, how will we make
this blood pool and then you try to match it
as much as possible throughout the rest. But multiples are huge.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
It's huge.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And you've just reminded me often films aren't shot in
like what's the word.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
I'm looking for, like script script order a country.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah, yeah, so it's not like okay, well, this is
page one. We're going to shoot it first. Often you
will shoot you last stuff or yeah, like and I
spent in a movie like that, it seemed like there
would have been a few night shoots, quite a.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Yeah, quite a few. All of the bars. I'm on sets.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Generally Amy who designed the clothes, She and I will
be on set. If you're establishing something for the first time,
the first time it's ever seen on camera, you're there
to make sure it looks the way you want it to,
and that will happen. So all of our I mean
every scene at the bar was shot in the middle
of the night on house dinner avenue A or second.
(06:30):
I mean we were like in the thick of the
East Village and the Lower East Side, And I mean
it was funny as people found out where we were
filming night after night, the crowds.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Would cras so much on TikTok.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Yeah, the crowds would get bigger every now so by
the last night at a particular location, like when he
the scene in which he takes his key out of
the pocket from the unhoused man. Yeah, next door at
the pilot side. By the last night we were shooting
at that location, the sidewalk was packed.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
I also feel like Matt Smith with that mohawk, which
is real, was that real so it was his own
hair and he fully shaved the ste good on him amazing.
I think he got the best line in the movie,
Welcome to fucking Nannia.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
That seemed going into that surgeon. It was. It was magic, really,
I mean it was so cool.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Yeah, I mean that's prop sin set dressing, and like
the production design of that is absolutely and the production.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
I'm in that film it is a genius, just a genius.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
So fun.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Yeah, it's crazy, and you get to.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Play around and make things and you're sometimes you're making
like there's one of the things that we did was
we made three or four of those leather jackets that
Matt which I would potentially wear, and then we amy
went chopping with the director in with Matt and found
a jacket at a vintage shop in New York and
(07:54):
that ended up being the winner. But you're you know,
when you're doing camera tests and fittings, you're making stuff
just to see if it works, and if it doesn't,
it just goes into stock and you put it on
someone else.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Ah, it'd be so also seeing his character in the
way like his costume is such a huge part of
his whole personality, which we talked about this and I
love the way you talk about costume being storytelling and
a huge part of storytelling. Do you think costume is
almost like it can be its own character or do
(08:25):
you see it as kind of like elevating the actor
and helping them access the character.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
I think it can be both. Yeah, I mean I
think it.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
When you I mean you think about iconic moments in
film and television, and sometimes that's harnessed from the clothes
they're wearing, but it's in the context of what it's
doing for that particular scene, for that particular character. So
I think if it ends up feeling iconic or memorable
in some way, it is a combination of all of
those factors, the actor's performance. How true it feels to yeah,
(09:00):
that synergy of how it all was working together, Because
if it's a great jacket, it can be a great jacket,
but if it's not the right jacket for that character
in that moment, it won't.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
That same energy isn't isn't there?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
It reminds me there's a really heavy movie called Civil
War with Jesse Plemons, and he plays this kind of
white supremacist, really scary character.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Yes with Kirstin Dunn, Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
And the person that was going to play his role
pulled out and so he found out like two weeks
before because he was obviously there look on set looking
after their kiddos because he's married to Kirston Dunce anyway,
and his character is pretty like very racist but also
a murderer and for the whole, his whole he's only
on camera for like three minutes, but he wears these
(09:50):
heart shaped, bright red glasses and he went through he
had like thirteen pairs, same thing the way, and it
was that that he felt he.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Could be through those.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It's really important for him to do something to disassociate
while he was essentially mass murdering people. So fascinating, but
imagine without those glasses. I don't think that scene would
have maybe felt the same for the viewer as well.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
It's just fine. Yeah, there's that. I think that when
you say.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Costume design can be or is a form of stellatorist storytelling.
It it's something that we as human beings are familiar with,
Like we all get dressed every day. But you everyone
gets dressed with a certain intention in mind, like you
put on clothes to feel a certain way or to
convey a certain thing about who you are.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
That what is that? What is this moment in your
life that you're dressing for as a job interview? Is
it a date? Is it what you know? Is it
mass murdering people? Yeah, there is thought an intention behind it.
And if you can.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Those are the details through which you can tell something
about a person and a scene without having to say anything. Yeah,
and and we've spoken about this, but I think it's
it's even things that are unseen can be incredibly powerful,
like the accessing of the character can be the what
do you have.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
In your pocket?
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Oh my goodness, I like, what what is that?
Speaker 3 (11:15):
What is the Is there a talisman from his life
or her life that they have that they're holding on to.
Is it just like gum wrappers or you know what?
What are those things that make you feel like a person.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
In that in that moment?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
And I love it. I love noting out with you.
By the way, it's so fun.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So I have to talk to you about Fallout because
that was such a fun show and also a huge cast.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
You worked predominantly with a lot of the background actress.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Right, So the Vaultese, the Vaultese, the Cavenders, what we
called the wasteland like the dwellers up the everything.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
So the wastelanding dweller people that they're gonna be all
like tattered, right.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
And like yeah, I mean so again that was with
Amy Wescott was the custom designer actually brought me on
to help design and do background.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
And so.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
We had all of this research from the video game
and the art books and all that, and then the
challenge is taking something two D and making it three D.
And so you want to make it real, but you
also have to then take into account what have they
gone through, what are they going through, how are they
surviving in this wasteland, what is the culture there now creating?
Speaker 4 (12:30):
And so that was a great exo.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I mean I would call up vintage vendors and say,
what do you have that's in you know, not such
great condition that you don't want to fix up, that
you don't you can't really sell, and can we buy
those things from you? Because then half the work is done.
You have some old tattered things. They feel like the fifties,
which is where it's where the story starts and then
(12:54):
we move from there. And then it was literally going
to thrift stores, junk shops, hardware stores.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
I met this amazing.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
I went to a it's called Brimfield, the Brimfield Markets,
and it's a massive vintage for that takes over this
mylong stretch in Massachusetts. And some of them are very
fancy and it's like tents and boots and in a
hotel ballroom, and then others it's like a like a
boot sale where people are showing up with like things
in a van, trash bags full of clothes. And I
(13:21):
met this man from upstate New York and he was
a metal scrap dealer and artist, so he would find
scrap metal and make art. Anything he didn't use he
would just sell. He had hanging these long conveyor belt
chains like that run the belts, and I was like,
this could be very interesting, and we ended up buying
all that he had, and that's how we made the
(13:42):
insignia and the ranks for the Brotherhood of Steel. So
certain ways that we arranged the bolts and the little
metal pieces would be like you're a general, you're an admiral,
you're a soldier and that's those are the pieces we
used to make.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
That and how cool you we'll work with the local artist.
That's really fun.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
It was amazing and I imagine this would have been
as well if we look at our protagonist. But that
that distressing thing, like because you know when she goes
up to the surface, like she looks all perfect and pristine,
and then each.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
And she's like missing a finger. Yeah, her shoes falling
off and yeah. And that again was when I say,
like the stages of things with the principal cast, that's Amy.
She has an assistant who's amazing who they were dealing
with that.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
But Amy would.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
In sketches and in research show this is stage one,
which is perfect. This is the first moment of distressing,
and then you have a couple of those. This is
the next level, the next level, the next level, the
next level, until you get to the to the last.
So you have all of that and you're mapping out and.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
You taught me this.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
You fully go to location. And this wasn't shot in
out Flaw. That was not shot here in La No, it.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Was in New York.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
So we were in Brooklyn. We were on the sound
stages for the vaults.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, to go out some wind dizzity fings.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
We went to Windover, Utah and that's where we shot
the Brotherhood of Steel. Like compound Amazing, which is the
museum it's off It's where the Aola Gay was built,
which is I don't know what that is. It's one
of the planes that was used in World War Two
in Hiroshima.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
And so we were on this old military base. So
the barracks that they're in are real, real, like there
were parts of some of the buildings. It was like
you you can stand on this porch, but you can't
go inside because the floorboards can't hold weight. Or you
can be in this part of the building, but avoid
those floorboard.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
I mean it was but it's so old, and I
mean it it was wild.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
And then you know, we would do night shoots and
there was the bonfires and that, and it just felt
like this crazy camp.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
I mean it was wild.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
And then you're living in a hotel for two weeks
and you're in a casino and you're kind of like
what is this topsy turvy world where like you get
home from shooting at like two am and then you
wake up at the next morning and you go to
leave the hotel. In the same there was this old
woman and she was standing between two slot machines, and
she was there when I got home, and she was
there when I left the next morning. She had a
cigarette in one hand and a coffee cup in the other,
(16:12):
and she would take a drag of her cigarette, hit
the slot machine, take a sip of her coffee, hit
the slot machine, and kind.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Of just went back and forth.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
That's why it was.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
I mean, there are things that you see in those
moments where you just take pictures because if you were
to describe them to a director, they would never believe
it was. They're like that, Real people don't look like that.
Real people don't do that, and be like, no, no,
I have a picture. Look at this, look at this,
look at this amazingness. And that's a care I mean
that's something where like if I ever do something Caine,
I'll be like, guys, we have to put this old
lady in here.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Oh, I love your brain. You've got such a creative brain.
I have to ask, though you've done so much theater
as well.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Yeah, I started in theater.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah, what would you say?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I imagine theater like you've got a longer lead time,
you've got those tech rehearsals. Yeah, you're potentially working with
plays that have potent if it's like Shakespeare or something
then or you've done some opera stuff as well, you
know what I mean, Like they've got a life, they've
had a life. So I met, I guess I just
want know the difference between film and tally versus theater, I.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Would say, design wise, and like the way you approach
a piece for me is very similar. It starts with
the script. You I mean, I read it hundreds of times,
but the first time get the thrust of it. Yeah,
second time you're looking for those little details, what are
the sounds, what's the story? What is you know?
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Other person? You know, who are these people?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
And then you're meeting with the directors, other designers, research sketches,
all that. Practically, what couldn't be more different? Lead time
can vary, so like, well that's what it is. But
in terms of like doing the thing, theater has a
bit more I would say, I want to say, like
(18:00):
elasticity in that you have dreshearsals, you have previews, you're
running it for two or three four weeks where you're
tweaking it and changing it, and if that thing doesn't work,
it's maybe, oh that T shirt doesn't let's change that.
Let's a designer I worked with for a long time,
Jennifer Muller. She would have we'd have laundry baskets full
of clothes underneath our tech table for the different characters
(18:22):
and be like, Ah, that's the wrong T shirt. Let's oh,
let's try this color. Oh okay, that works? Okay good,
And that's what you would do in previews and in
tech like you would just tweak it film. Once it's
on camera, you're there, you're locked in, so you have
to a lot of that exploration happens in the fittings
and in those conversations with the director and the designers
(18:44):
and the actor and finding the right thing. And then
you have your backups. You know, as you're setting up
the shot, you're doing a rehearsal, you're like, oh does
that act? Oh maybe that doesn't work. In the director
might be like, can we try that other thing we
had from y X fitting? And you have it in
your truck and you grab it and you put it on.
You're like, okay, good, that's it.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
A shot. Get shot.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
And that was a weird thing for me to adjust
you because I'd be watching some of the other modernor like,
oh it's not exactly perf.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Well that's okay, yeah, oh the color, No, that's what
it is.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
It's so interesting. I also reckon with theater.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
I imagine you've got to think about costume changes as well,
Like if somebody's got to like do a really quick
costume change, get back on, especially if they're like an
ensemble character that plays you know, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Mean sometimes you're designing it with that that it might
be're like, okay, well, this person has thirty five seconds.
So what are we underdressing. What are we cutting the
sleeves off and hiding underneath something else? What are we
putting you know, magnets down the back so it rips away.
You know, you're looking at all of those, and sometimes
you get to have fun with it. I just designed
(19:46):
a musical called Bright Star, and in the middle of
a scene, this character is singing a song and she
on stage in the choreography moves from nineteen forties back
into her childhood twenties, and so she's taking off the
nineteen forties closed as part of the choreography, and this
dress that she puts on we designed to open through
(20:06):
the back and so she could literally slide into it.
And there were some magnets and some of the actors
would tie the belt around her waist and then all
of a sudden, she's in the twenties, right before your eyes,
you know.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
So I think I was telling you I saw this
play that's on at the National Theater and now with
Rosamund Pike, and she doesn't leave the stage, and because
she plays a judge, everything is under but I'm talking one, two, three,
three like top layers. So like shirts dress, there's a
(20:39):
little she gets down to, like a little single top
at the very end. And then any costumes are because
it's all set in a lot of it's set in
her kitchen or courtroom, and she'll pull a drawer and
pull like another piece of costume out, so fascinating.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I mean, those are the fire I think, and those
are some moments where we talk about the specificity how
important it is when you've got just a couple of
pieces to tell, the story.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Becomes even more.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I mean, to be a fly on a wall in
that fitting, it would have been amazing because that it's
like what is the right jacket? What's the conversation then
with the set designer and the director to be like
where do we hide these things?
Speaker 4 (21:16):
What is what's the energy? Like how does that all
work together?
Speaker 2 (21:21):
It was really interesting also color wise, like the moment
we first see her take her I don't know what
it's called judge gown off.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
She was wearing an emerald green loose blouse and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Oh, she's like powerful. And then when you see it
be social and have like a bit of a sexy thing.
She's in red and so it's fascinating like how And
I imagine your brain would be like boom boom, Like
this is all things that I would think about when
you talk about specificity as well. And like speaking of specificity,
I have to ask you do you find with actors
(21:54):
that when they're trying costumes on, they'll be like oh
yeah that oh yeah, like all the shoes, Yeah, Like
what are those little things that really like help them
access the character?
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I mean it can be anything, but shoes are always
to be comfortable, yeah, and to make the choice to
not be comfortable, like it depends on the actor. They're
like these shoes make me walk funny, but this actually
really works, so let's go for it. But I mean
that sense of grounding is important to know, like where
you your feet are underneath you. I would say shoes
(22:25):
and underwear tend to be like the more difficult things
to figure out. And I mean, and that's the it's
you know, people always be like, oh, customs, that is
so glamorous, and and I'm like, I actually spend a
lot of time buying underwear and shoes because you're just
going through it and and and so you've got the
(22:46):
grounding of the shoes that important part, and then the
underg the foundations of it. If it's a period piece,
under even more important just to get the right shape of.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
The clothes on top of it.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
But also they give the actor that tangible feeling of like, ah,
this is what you know. It's like all those funny
videos that go around about Bridgerton and the Gilded Age
and they're like, my course, it's my course, it's right.
And I mean they're not the most comfortable thing in
the world towhere, but like if they're fitted well and
they're constructed well and they're for you there, you could
(23:15):
live in.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
That well you just mentioned Bridgeton. I interviewed the intimacy
coordinator and I asked her cool.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Well and I asked her, I said, what's the key?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And she's like, because the first scene they ever shot
on the first the first Bridgeton was the famous library
scene where he's essentially going down on her and she's
in this library. She goes, there were few things that
the audience doesn't know. She's like, first of all, that
was the first time those actors were Yeah, they had
six weeks of intimacy coordination prep.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Though.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Second thing, she's like the underwear. She's like, it makes
it so sexy because it's.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
So much more than what we wear these days, and
so like.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
If thumb brushes like a like slight bit of the
underwe that is super intimate. She's like. The other thing
is like breath. She's like just she's like, we She's like,
we literally plant. It's like a fight scene. She's like,
we choreograph the inhales and exhales and that's really what
makes it sexy. Wow, But to come up bring it
(24:16):
back to you and underwear, like, I've never to be
really honest with you, I've done been acting school for
ten years. I've never thought I've always worn my own underwear.
I thought, what would And I've played women in their
fifties that probably would wear different like when like powerful
women that work in legal firms. That's probably a different
vibe to isn't it? What makes sense because it's like
(24:37):
it's one of the first choices you make in a
day as well, and it's like it has such an
impact as a human we know on like you're confidence,
how you feel within your own skin, Like it's a
no brainer in the way that you mentioned like things
in the pockets as well, like I know, if I'm nervous,
I'll put like a lucky ring in my lurl, make
sure I've got a certain thing on or or even
(24:59):
like as hippus it sounds like a crystal or a
lucky coin or something like. And I think this is
probably more common than we realize as far as human
nature goes. And yeah, I mean, like I said, I
could talk to you all day long, I have to
ask you because I've got to know you as a friend.
We've also worked together, you feel, and having been a
(25:21):
wonderful participant in many of your yoga classes as well,
you are somebody that is clear, specific, and I believe
attention to detail is probably one of your hallmarks.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
How do you find that that serves you?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Working in this like the entertainment industry, and like say
you're working on a TV show or a movie. These
are like high pressure, very high pressure, lots of money worlds.
How important to you is that attention to detail?
Speaker 3 (25:53):
I mean, it's tremendously important, and there's plenty of ways
that it.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
The systems that you work within help support that.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
I mean, like if you're working on a film or
TV show, the amount of like paperwork and schedules that
you're looking at to stay on top of things are.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Endless, right, But I think the attention to detail, I
mean it's it's.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
The desire to serve the not only the script and
the actor and the story, but to like find the
right things, so like I can.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Be obsessive if it's the right piece.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
And I mean a dear friend of mine who used
to assist me on shows when I lived in New York,
I would find a piece of research or draw something
and be like, this is that's it.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
I'm obsessed with this blouse. It has to be that blouse.
I can't do it. And it can't happen without it,
Like that's what I need it. It needs to be that.
But and it you know, there's that idea of like,
oh god, why is it that?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
But you've done all of that work, with the conversations
with the actor, the director, the research, the design like
it has. It's that important. So finding the right piece
of jewelry, the right fabric, the right thing is is
so important and you know, you can.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
Be upset, you know, it can be obsessive.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
And then the detail part of it beyond that is
just you know, if I'm working in as an assistant,
I try to be as humanly possible on top of
the details in the scheduling because it is fast and
it's furious, and you you're once it starts, you're on
the train and if you fall off, it's really hard
to get back on. So you just you try to
(27:32):
stay on top of it and try to keep all
of those details in line in your process. And if
that's like making a calendar, making your spreadsheet, whatever that is.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
It's cool to hear you talk about that because that
is a big part. Like I think us creatives can be.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Like, oh, like let's just be I want to be
in the art and I want to.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, there is actually like very much a procedure and
protocol aside to it as well, and like being so
ready with all like yes, the art so import but
also like that preparation as well is like key.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, I mean there's like the art I think of it,
like the process has its like artsy fartsy time, and
you get to be creative, you get to design. You're
never not creative throughout the process, but at a certain
point the practicality has to become the thing. So it's
like we've got to you know, when you're working in
a film, it's like, okay, this has to get established
and then when that's done, I've got to run to
(28:24):
this place and pick up those clothes and.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Shop for that, and then we have this fitting.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Like that cycle is really important and you're not not
creative in it, but at a certain point it's like yes,
if the thing isn't there, you've got to make a
different choice, and you've got to solve the puzzle piece
because it's either got to go on stage or it's
got to be on camera.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
And at a certain point, the deadline is the deadline.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, Oh I love that and it's very inspiring. I
have to ask you about the menu and is it
true you made edible chocolate hats.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
It was the best part of working.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
I mean I always like, I always like finding there's
always one thing on a project that you used to
like figure out and when. And this was again the
amazing Amy Wescott who hired me on to do the
menu with her. We got to Savannah where we were
shooting it, and we were reading the script and I
thought they were props. I was like, this is gonna
be the props perment, like this would be great. And
she was like, I knew, can you figure out how
(29:20):
to make these hats out of chocolate? Like what can
we do to make these hats?
Speaker 4 (29:23):
And I was like huh. And so there was a local.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Like chocolate local chocolate shop and the owner of that
shop was working with the art department because there was
all the other chocolate stuff that was happening, so he
was helping them with that. So I just emailed him
and was like, can I come to your shop one
night after work and can you teach me how like
how do you make these molded chocolate things that you make?
And he taught me how to temper chocolate and make
(29:52):
these molds.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
With like.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
Clean not cling film, but like yeah, yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Know, like when you write on a projector of those
clear plastic sheets, like using those to make the mold
and the shapes and drying them. And ultimately those were
beautiful but too delicate, and so I ended up using
like tutsi roll.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
It's called modeling job butt.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
It's like a big vat of tutsi roll and rolling
it out and making different shapes and carving out the
interior so it would be thinner in some parts so
it would collapse more easily. I mean, you can ask
my partner. Our refrigerator in Savannah was full of these
like prototype chocolate hats and just getting it to the
right consistency in the thickness and then covering them in
(30:32):
magic shell that like dessert topping, so that it was hard,
but then as it warmed, it would look like it
was oozing more. And then we worked with the FX
department to put this rig underneath the hat that had
more oozy chocolate. And then it was just a bunch
of us standing out of the frame with heat guns
pointed at the hats so that it would start to
melt and collapse while they filmed it.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Oh my goodness, so good. Yeah, I have to go
back and watch that.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
That's going to be crazy.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
And the marshmallow bunch are real marshmallows that we and
we tried everything. We were like, can we dip them
in some kind of shellac to cover them so they
last longer? And the best thing was just heart gluing
them to the fabric and covering them in corn starts
so they didn't look too shiny.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
So it's all real. It was, It was all real.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Okay, I I obviously have to ask you this, and
this was one of the first questions I asked you
the day I met you over a year ago.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Now oh yeah, oh god, I forgot again.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Yes, having our little coffees, what is your like? North
Star Dream Job dream geek.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
It's designing for the Brigands Festival, and oh my god,
I thought I was like going to look it up
and be more knowledgeable. But it's an opera company that
produces operas on a lake and the audience sits on
the barge or no, no, they sit and it stands
on land and they look at this massive productions that
(31:58):
is built in the middle of this lake.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
And it's just the scale of it, the.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Number of performers, scuba divers, not only like actors, but
there's like the safety team and people in the water
if someone falls in God for a bit, like it's
a feat And to look at those productions and to
watch some of them that have been recorded and put
online that you can watch through the library.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, I want to see this.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
It's incredible, it's gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
This is on a much smaller scale, but you should
go to Australia because you know the Sydney Opera House,
there's a movie screen that comes out of the water
and you see it.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
I've been there.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
I see it.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah, and you watch the movie like the screen is
in the water.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
That's so and you're on a boat, you're on land
like same.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Things on seats. It's so cool. It's an outdoor theater obviously.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
So like you got the Scars Stars at night, you've
got the Sydney like the Sydney Harbor Bridge behind and
you're watching from a movie premiere.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
How mental, that's how cool.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Amazingly I'll add that one to the list. I'll have
a movie that'll premiere one day.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
And that's where it'll be.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, we'll go together. Thanks, hopefully I'm in it.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Okay, So I have to ask because you are such
an amazing creative and so many people listen to this
pod that are like I've got this dream and like
they've got that spark in their chest and but and
I like, I feel this way sometimes too. Sometimes that
all feels a little bit too oh what if I fail?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
And scary?
Speaker 2 (33:24):
What advice do you have for someone that's got a
creative dyam? It can be like you can speak directly
to costume or you can speak to broad I think.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
The things I've learned, even in learning them about myself
and being in this industry, that there can be a
lot of anxiety. It can be a lot of that
tension of like this is my last job. I'm never
going to work again, Like.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Every job feels like it will be the last.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Because even if you're on a movie that's shooting for
three months, by month end of month one, you're like,
oh my god, I only have two months left. I
really I've got to look for and not what am
I going to do next?
Speaker 4 (34:00):
What am I doing? What am I doing? And that
will drive you crazy and.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Will it just creates so much and I speak from
experience a lot of internal tension about what's next. So
first piece of device, just know that this, the current job,
is not the last.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
It will not be the last.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
There will be more, and that you just not only
like trust in that, but you everything will will create
the momentum that builds upon itself and the network you
have where the something will lead to something and it
may not be immediate, it might take a minute, but
it will it will be there. All of those things
(34:38):
will will start to align if you can, as best
as you can, put away some of the anxiety of it.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
I mean in addition to that, I mean, I think
if you.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
If you're kind to people and not only kind to people,
but kind to yourself in that process that like, it's
so much it's a.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
Hard job to begin with that like.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
If we're if you're working collaboratively, or you're kind to people,
it will make it just makes life easier. And so
if you can, like I find that if you can
let go of that anxiety of it but making it
all perfect and doing the right job, it's easier to
be kind to yourself and to the people you're working alongside,
because without that anxiety, it's just an easier space to
(35:28):
be in totally.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
And there's a saying like talent will get you the job,
but your kindness will keep the job and your work
ethic usually, but like that because remember, like especially the
INtime industry, once you start to swim in those pools,
they're kind of small. Yeah, And so if someone's like,
oh my god, I just love working Christopher, like, it's
no surprise that Amy keeps being like, hey, I'm doing
this gig, come join, you know, And I think that that's. Yes,
(35:51):
you're obviously very hard work or and amazingly talented, but.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
You're also fun to work with, you know.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
And I think that if you're kind and fun to
work with people, and I think that that's my theory.
I haven't told you this, but that's why I think
ossies do quite well in the entertainment history, because they
work really hard, but they're kind of like free, chill and.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Very like, yeah, no worries, let's get that's right.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Like it's that fun, kind of laid back, but then
the work as well. And I think that's why American's like, yeah,
you okay, let's.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
Get the.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
I don't know that's my theory, but it's kind of
like what you're saying, like, work hard, don't worry, but
be really kind so that yeah, someone sees your work.
But also like Christopher was amazing on set, so he's
to work with kind fun. Let's get Christopher back. You know,
it makes total sense. I watched not to quote the
King of Movies right now, but I watched In with
(36:42):
Leo and Leonardo DiCaprio, by the way that's referring to,
and he literally said, they said, of course, And someone
said what advice would you have for your younger self?
And he goes, stop worrying and keep moving He's like,
just keep moving forward, but stop worrying about it. And
most actors say that a lot of creatives that freelance life.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
You're like, where's the next thing? Can't come from?
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Oh my goodness, I'm going to be out of pay rent.
Like there's that We leave that life in that freelance world.
But then there comes a point where you kind of
like do the work and turn that like anxiety almost
into excitement for the next job.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And if I mean there's nothing
and the more you do it, Like I'm not the
like networking quote unquote networking that is required in this.
I feel like I'm really bad at it. Like I
get really go to like a party or like an event,
I'm really gonna have conties and I don't know what
to do. Like, the more you do it, the slightly easier.
(37:43):
It's not gonna if I don't think it'll ever.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
Be easy for me. You just have to bring a bud.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Yeah, But also the more you do it, the easier
it is. And like if it's a person you want
to work with. And I'm still practicing this every day
when I see a production or I see someone that
I want to get to know better or just have
a coffee with, not even in relationship of like please
hire me, but like just to get to know someone
else working in the industry, just send the email.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Do you know what?
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I interviewed a big movie exec producer, and I was like,
what did I asked the same question I asked you,
and she goes Most people don't ask. Don't be afraid
of being like, hey, I'm a huge fan of your work.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Please keep me in mind, you know.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
And I think that's how a lot of work happen
when you get the courage to ask let that anxiety go,
because I think the anxiety is a huge block on
so many levels, like spiritual, emotional, all the things physical
as well. But I think when you let the anxiety go,
and also I think there's a picture of like, hey,
you know, do look at your do look at your resume.
Its flip an unreal my friend, Like there's so much
(38:45):
cool stuff that you've done.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
You are like this is for me. It just feels
like I can't wait to keep watching the rest of
your journey unfold. I hope we get to work together again,
but on.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
A set, let's do it will always be asked.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Thank you so much for jumping on the pod.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
You're flipping wonderful and to the listener, I'm going to
have your Insta in the show notes as well as
your website because I just think you're unreal and I
want more people to know you.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Thank you, Thank you emailed it.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
That's a wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always,
thank you to our guests, and let's continue the conversation
on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I'm at Yamo lollaberry.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
This potty my word for podcast is available on all
streaming platforms. I'd love it if you could subscribe, rape
and comment, and of course spread the love.
Get a.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm Lola Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter, and professional oversharer.
This podcast is all about celebrating failure because I believe
it's a chance for us to learn, grow and face
our blind spots. Each week, I'll interview a different guest
about their highs as well as their lows, all in
(00:26):
a bid to inspire us to fearlessly fail. Hello, and
welcome to the Potteroo. I have got a ripper guest
for you today. His name is Christopher Metzker and he
is an unflippin' real costume designer from Film TV, Big
(00:47):
Hollywood movies. We're going to talk about theater dance. He's
very very humble as well. I'm like, Holly Mack, you've
done so much and he's like, do you reckon? And
I'm like, yeah, you're amazing. You're going to love this chat.
Is very creative and open about that creativity. I think
you'll find it really really inspiring, also because I'm very
(01:09):
open and honest with you guys. We actually did this
interview two days earlier and the files got corrupted. The
SD card was no boro not happy at all, So
thank you so much Christopher for jumping back on the pod.
You absolutely nailed it as you did the first time
as well, and to the listener, I hope you love
(01:29):
this chat. Christopher has worked on so many great projects,
from court Stealing I don't know if you saw that
recently with Austin Butler, Matt Smith, Zoe Kravitz. Also the
incredible TV show The Fallout where he takes us through
all the costumes and distressing those costumes and getting them
(01:51):
to the stage that obviously we see them on the show,
we don't realize like all this hard work that's gone
into it. And then also to like literally edible costumes
on the menu, so you are in for such a treat.
This is our first ever costume designer we've had on
the pod, So I hope you love this chat. Christopher,
You're wonderful. Thank you so much for my friend. All right,
(02:12):
big love, I'm going to say, welcome back to.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
The podcasts designer.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Oh Christopher, you are so flipping wonderful for coming back.
But let's get into this. Christopher Metzga Film TV Theater.
I want to say, dance costume designer. Yes, your resume,
my friend. You know you're literally grimacing to the listener,
(02:39):
He's grimacing as I say, this is incredible, and I
feel very lucky because I feel like we've kind of
been buttos for the last year or so, and so
I get to see stuff behind the scenes on your
instag But I imagine also you're not allowed to share until
stuff comes out.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I must have bout at social media. But yes, like
I should post more, but.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Actually yes, I'm going to say that.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Yeah, you need you can give me all the I
got chips and tricks.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
I got you back.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
So the reason why I wanted to do this pod
with you was I went to the movies, one of
my favorite date day things to do, and I was
watching The Beautiful Austin Butler in Court Stealing and Matt
Smith and Zoe Kravitz, and then I was doing pod
research and I was like, I'm just going to jump
on Christopher's website and that's the first thing that pops.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Up on your website. You worked on that movie.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Yeah, it was crazy.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I was the associate custom designer Amy Westcott design the clothes.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Asked, gosh, this was a year a little over a
year ago now.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
She was in LA and we had lunch and she said,
I'm doing this movie, do you want to come back
to New York and work on it? And I was like,
I've actually already bought the plane tickets, so yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Coming because I remember following you on Insta and You're
posting all this cool punk rock stuff like leathers.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
And and I'm guessing that was.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
All all of that was constealing New York in the nineties.
So we recreated to the Lower east Side, Chinatown, Benny's
Buried as I mean, all these iconic places in New
York City and then the people that live in that
world and getting to let it be gritty and grungy
and you know.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
So and this is I feel like, I feel very
not cheeky, but I feel so lucky that we actually
have had a chat before, so now I feel like
I can tip to have this. You were teaching me
about needing to like when it comes to costumes, sometimes
you need to distress things, like, for for example, even
in court stealing, like Austin Butler's character is his name Benny,
I Like it's Benny or something, but he's always in
(04:38):
fights yea, and so he's beautiful, like he's wearing jeans
and like his name is Hank is his name Hank
even better and he like I imagine like there's gonna be
blood spurts on bits because he gets in fights, or
like there's seem wary vomits.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
You know, like it's all do you have to have
like multiple really.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
You have anywhere from two to twelve to I mean,
if it's like a superhero movie, you'll get twenty four
of a particular thing, so you always have backups, and
you always might have like stages so exactly that like
if someone is in a fight or stabbed or whatever
and the blood is pooling or there's dirt, it'll be
(05:18):
like stage one, Stage two, stage three, and you have
multiples of each of those stages that you can film
it in and out of order. And sometimes you're distressing
it because you film the aftermath before you do the
actual event, so you're like anticipating, how will we make
this blood pool and then you try to match it
as much as possible throughout the rest. But multiples are huge.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
It's huge.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And you've just reminded me often films aren't shot in
like what's the word.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
I'm looking for, like script script order a country.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah, yeah, so it's not like okay, well, this is
page one. We're going to shoot it first. Often you
will shoot you last stuff or yeah, like and I
spent in a movie like that, it seemed like there
would have been a few night shoots, quite a.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Yeah, quite a few. All of the bars. I'm on sets.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Generally Amy who designed the clothes, She and I will
be on set. If you're establishing something for the first time,
the first time it's ever seen on camera, you're there
to make sure it looks the way you want it to,
and that will happen. So all of our I mean
every scene at the bar was shot in the middle
of the night on house dinner avenue A or second.
(06:30):
I mean we were like in the thick of the
East Village and the Lower East Side, And I mean
it was funny as people found out where we were
filming night after night, the crowds.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Would cras so much on TikTok.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Yeah, the crowds would get bigger every now so by
the last night at a particular location, like when he
the scene in which he takes his key out of
the pocket from the unhoused man. Yeah, next door at
the pilot side. By the last night we were shooting
at that location, the sidewalk was packed.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
I also feel like Matt Smith with that mohawk, which
is real, was that real so it was his own
hair and he fully shaved the ste good on him amazing.
I think he got the best line in the movie,
Welcome to fucking Nannia.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
That seemed going into that surgeon. It was. It was magic, really,
I mean it was so cool.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Yeah, I mean that's prop sin set dressing, and like
the production design of that is absolutely and the production.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
I'm in that film it is a genius, just a genius.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
So fun.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Yeah, it's crazy, and you get to.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Play around and make things and you're sometimes you're making
like there's one of the things that we did was
we made three or four of those leather jackets that
Matt which I would potentially wear, and then we amy
went chopping with the director in with Matt and found
a jacket at a vintage shop in New York and
(07:54):
that ended up being the winner. But you're you know,
when you're doing camera tests and fittings, you're making stuff
just to see if it works, and if it doesn't,
it just goes into stock and you put it on
someone else.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Ah, it'd be so also seeing his character in the
way like his costume is such a huge part of
his whole personality, which we talked about this and I
love the way you talk about costume being storytelling and
a huge part of storytelling. Do you think costume is
almost like it can be its own character or do
(08:25):
you see it as kind of like elevating the actor
and helping them access the character.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
I think it can be both. Yeah, I mean I
think it.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
When you I mean you think about iconic moments in
film and television, and sometimes that's harnessed from the clothes
they're wearing, but it's in the context of what it's
doing for that particular scene, for that particular character. So
I think if it ends up feeling iconic or memorable
in some way, it is a combination of all of
those factors, the actor's performance. How true it feels to yeah,
(09:00):
that synergy of how it all was working together, Because
if it's a great jacket, it can be a great jacket,
but if it's not the right jacket for that character
in that moment, it won't.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
That same energy isn't isn't there?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
It reminds me there's a really heavy movie called Civil
War with Jesse Plemons, and he plays this kind of
white supremacist, really scary character.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Yes with Kirstin Dunn, Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
And the person that was going to play his role
pulled out and so he found out like two weeks
before because he was obviously there look on set looking
after their kiddos because he's married to Kirston Dunce anyway,
and his character is pretty like very racist but also
a murderer and for the whole, his whole he's only
on camera for like three minutes, but he wears these
(09:50):
heart shaped, bright red glasses and he went through he
had like thirteen pairs, same thing the way, and it
was that that he felt he.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Could be through those.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It's really important for him to do something to disassociate
while he was essentially mass murdering people. So fascinating, but
imagine without those glasses. I don't think that scene would
have maybe felt the same for the viewer as well.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
It's just fine. Yeah, there's that. I think that when
you say.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Costume design can be or is a form of stellatorist storytelling.
It it's something that we as human beings are familiar with,
Like we all get dressed every day. But you everyone
gets dressed with a certain intention in mind, like you
put on clothes to feel a certain way or to
convey a certain thing about who you are.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
That what is that? What is this moment in your
life that you're dressing for as a job interview? Is
it a date? Is it what you know? Is it
mass murdering people? Yeah, there is thought an intention behind it.
And if you can.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Those are the details through which you can tell something
about a person and a scene without having to say anything. Yeah,
and and we've spoken about this, but I think it's
it's even things that are unseen can be incredibly powerful,
like the accessing of the character can be the what
do you have.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
In your pocket?
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Oh my goodness, I like, what what is that?
Speaker 3 (11:15):
What is the Is there a talisman from his life
or her life that they have that they're holding on to.
Is it just like gum wrappers or you know what?
What are those things that make you feel like a person.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
In that in that moment?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
And I love it. I love noting out with you.
By the way, it's so fun.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So I have to talk to you about Fallout because
that was such a fun show and also a huge cast.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
You worked predominantly with a lot of the background actress.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Right, So the Vaultese, the Vaultese, the Cavenders, what we
called the wasteland like the dwellers up the everything.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
So the wastelanding dweller people that they're gonna be all
like tattered, right.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
And like yeah, I mean so again that was with
Amy Wescott was the custom designer actually brought me on
to help design and do background.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
And so.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
We had all of this research from the video game
and the art books and all that, and then the
challenge is taking something two D and making it three D.
And so you want to make it real, but you
also have to then take into account what have they
gone through, what are they going through, how are they
surviving in this wasteland, what is the culture there now creating?
Speaker 4 (12:30):
And so that was a great exo.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I mean I would call up vintage vendors and say,
what do you have that's in you know, not such
great condition that you don't want to fix up, that
you don't you can't really sell, and can we buy
those things from you? Because then half the work is done.
You have some old tattered things. They feel like the fifties,
which is where it's where the story starts and then
(12:54):
we move from there. And then it was literally going
to thrift stores, junk shops, hardware stores.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
I met this amazing.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
I went to a it's called Brimfield, the Brimfield Markets,
and it's a massive vintage for that takes over this
mylong stretch in Massachusetts. And some of them are very
fancy and it's like tents and boots and in a
hotel ballroom, and then others it's like a like a
boot sale where people are showing up with like things
in a van, trash bags full of clothes. And I
(13:21):
met this man from upstate New York and he was
a metal scrap dealer and artist, so he would find
scrap metal and make art. Anything he didn't use he
would just sell. He had hanging these long conveyor belt
chains like that run the belts, and I was like,
this could be very interesting, and we ended up buying
all that he had, and that's how we made the
(13:42):
insignia and the ranks for the Brotherhood of Steel. So
certain ways that we arranged the bolts and the little
metal pieces would be like you're a general, you're an admiral,
you're a soldier and that's those are the pieces we
used to make.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
That and how cool you we'll work with the local artist.
That's really fun.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
It was amazing and I imagine this would have been
as well if we look at our protagonist. But that
that distressing thing, like because you know when she goes
up to the surface, like she looks all perfect and pristine,
and then each.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
And she's like missing a finger. Yeah, her shoes falling
off and yeah. And that again was when I say,
like the stages of things with the principal cast, that's Amy.
She has an assistant who's amazing who they were dealing
with that.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
But Amy would.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
In sketches and in research show this is stage one,
which is perfect. This is the first moment of distressing,
and then you have a couple of those. This is
the next level, the next level, the next level, the
next level, until you get to the to the last.
So you have all of that and you're mapping out and.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
You taught me this.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
You fully go to location. And this wasn't shot in
out Flaw. That was not shot here in La No, it.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Was in New York.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
So we were in Brooklyn. We were on the sound
stages for the vaults.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, to go out some wind dizzity fings.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
We went to Windover, Utah and that's where we shot
the Brotherhood of Steel. Like compound Amazing, which is the
museum it's off It's where the Aola Gay was built,
which is I don't know what that is. It's one
of the planes that was used in World War Two
in Hiroshima.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
And so we were on this old military base. So
the barracks that they're in are real, real, like there
were parts of some of the buildings. It was like
you you can stand on this porch, but you can't
go inside because the floorboards can't hold weight. Or you
can be in this part of the building, but avoid
those floorboard.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
I mean it was but it's so old, and I
mean it it was wild.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
And then you know, we would do night shoots and
there was the bonfires and that, and it just felt
like this crazy camp.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
I mean it was wild.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
And then you're living in a hotel for two weeks
and you're in a casino and you're kind of like
what is this topsy turvy world where like you get
home from shooting at like two am and then you
wake up at the next morning and you go to
leave the hotel. In the same there was this old
woman and she was standing between two slot machines, and
she was there when I got home, and she was
there when I left the next morning. She had a
cigarette in one hand and a coffee cup in the other,
(16:12):
and she would take a drag of her cigarette, hit
the slot machine, take a sip of her coffee, hit
the slot machine, and kind.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Of just went back and forth.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
That's why it was.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
I mean, there are things that you see in those
moments where you just take pictures because if you were
to describe them to a director, they would never believe
it was. They're like that, Real people don't look like that.
Real people don't do that, and be like, no, no,
I have a picture. Look at this, look at this,
look at this amazingness. And that's a care I mean
that's something where like if I ever do something Caine,
I'll be like, guys, we have to put this old
lady in here.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Oh, I love your brain. You've got such a creative brain.
I have to ask, though you've done so much theater
as well.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Yeah, I started in theater.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah, what would you say?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I imagine theater like you've got a longer lead time,
you've got those tech rehearsals. Yeah, you're potentially working with
plays that have potent if it's like Shakespeare or something
then or you've done some opera stuff as well, you
know what I mean, Like they've got a life, they've
had a life. So I met, I guess I just
want know the difference between film and tally versus theater, I.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Would say, design wise, and like the way you approach
a piece for me is very similar. It starts with
the script. You I mean, I read it hundreds of times,
but the first time get the thrust of it. Yeah,
second time you're looking for those little details, what are
the sounds, what's the story? What is you know?
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Other person? You know, who are these people?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
And then you're meeting with the directors, other designers, research sketches,
all that. Practically, what couldn't be more different? Lead time
can vary, so like, well that's what it is. But
in terms of like doing the thing, theater has a
bit more I would say, I want to say, like
(18:00):
elasticity in that you have dreshearsals, you have previews, you're
running it for two or three four weeks where you're
tweaking it and changing it, and if that thing doesn't work,
it's maybe, oh that T shirt doesn't let's change that.
Let's a designer I worked with for a long time,
Jennifer Muller. She would have we'd have laundry baskets full
of clothes underneath our tech table for the different characters
(18:22):
and be like, Ah, that's the wrong T shirt. Let's oh,
let's try this color. Oh okay, that works? Okay good,
And that's what you would do in previews and in
tech like you would just tweak it film. Once it's
on camera, you're there, you're locked in, so you have
to a lot of that exploration happens in the fittings
and in those conversations with the director and the designers
(18:44):
and the actor and finding the right thing. And then
you have your backups. You know, as you're setting up
the shot, you're doing a rehearsal, you're like, oh does
that act? Oh maybe that doesn't work. In the director
might be like, can we try that other thing we
had from y X fitting? And you have it in
your truck and you grab it and you put it on.
You're like, okay, good, that's it.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
A shot. Get shot.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
And that was a weird thing for me to adjust
you because I'd be watching some of the other modernor like,
oh it's not exactly perf.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Well that's okay, yeah, oh the color, No, that's what
it is.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
It's so interesting. I also reckon with theater.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
I imagine you've got to think about costume changes as well,
Like if somebody's got to like do a really quick
costume change, get back on, especially if they're like an
ensemble character that plays you know, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Mean sometimes you're designing it with that that it might
be're like, okay, well, this person has thirty five seconds.
So what are we underdressing. What are we cutting the
sleeves off and hiding underneath something else? What are we
putting you know, magnets down the back so it rips away.
You know, you're looking at all of those, and sometimes
you get to have fun with it. I just designed
(19:46):
a musical called Bright Star, and in the middle of
a scene, this character is singing a song and she
on stage in the choreography moves from nineteen forties back
into her childhood twenties, and so she's taking off the
nineteen forties closed as part of the choreography, and this
dress that she puts on we designed to open through
(20:06):
the back and so she could literally slide into it.
And there were some magnets and some of the actors
would tie the belt around her waist and then all
of a sudden, she's in the twenties, right before your eyes,
you know.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
So I think I was telling you I saw this
play that's on at the National Theater and now with
Rosamund Pike, and she doesn't leave the stage, and because
she plays a judge, everything is under but I'm talking one, two, three,
three like top layers. So like shirts dress, there's a
(20:39):
little she gets down to, like a little single top
at the very end. And then any costumes are because
it's all set in a lot of it's set in
her kitchen or courtroom, and she'll pull a drawer and
pull like another piece of costume out, so fascinating.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I mean, those are the fire I think, and those
are some moments where we talk about the specificity how
important it is when you've got just a couple of
pieces to tell, the story.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Becomes even more.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I mean, to be a fly on a wall in
that fitting, it would have been amazing because that it's
like what is the right jacket? What's the conversation then
with the set designer and the director to be like
where do we hide these things?
Speaker 4 (21:16):
What is what's the energy? Like how does that all
work together?
Speaker 2 (21:21):
It was really interesting also color wise, like the moment
we first see her take her I don't know what
it's called judge gown off.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
She was wearing an emerald green loose blouse and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Oh, she's like powerful. And then when you see it
be social and have like a bit of a sexy thing.
She's in red and so it's fascinating like how And
I imagine your brain would be like boom boom, Like
this is all things that I would think about when
you talk about specificity as well. And like speaking of specificity,
I have to ask you do you find with actors
(21:54):
that when they're trying costumes on, they'll be like oh
yeah that oh yeah, like all the shoes, Yeah, Like
what are those little things that really like help them
access the character?
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I mean it can be anything, but shoes are always
to be comfortable, yeah, and to make the choice to
not be comfortable, like it depends on the actor. They're
like these shoes make me walk funny, but this actually
really works, so let's go for it. But I mean
that sense of grounding is important to know, like where
you your feet are underneath you. I would say shoes
(22:25):
and underwear tend to be like the more difficult things
to figure out. And I mean, and that's the it's
you know, people always be like, oh, customs, that is
so glamorous, and and I'm like, I actually spend a
lot of time buying underwear and shoes because you're just
going through it and and and so you've got the
(22:46):
grounding of the shoes that important part, and then the
underg the foundations of it. If it's a period piece,
under even more important just to get the right shape of.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
The clothes on top of it.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
But also they give the actor that tangible feeling of like, ah,
this is what you know. It's like all those funny
videos that go around about Bridgerton and the Gilded Age
and they're like, my course, it's my course, it's right.
And I mean they're not the most comfortable thing in
the world towhere, but like if they're fitted well and
they're constructed well and they're for you there, you could
(23:15):
live in.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
That well you just mentioned Bridgeton. I interviewed the intimacy
coordinator and I asked her cool.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Well and I asked her, I said, what's the key?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And she's like, because the first scene they ever shot
on the first the first Bridgeton was the famous library
scene where he's essentially going down on her and she's
in this library. She goes, there were few things that
the audience doesn't know. She's like, first of all, that
was the first time those actors were Yeah, they had
six weeks of intimacy coordination prep.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Though.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Second thing, she's like the underwear. She's like, it makes
it so sexy because it's.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
So much more than what we wear these days, and
so like.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
If thumb brushes like a like slight bit of the
underwe that is super intimate. She's like. The other thing
is like breath. She's like just she's like, we She's like,
we literally plant. It's like a fight scene. She's like,
we choreograph the inhales and exhales and that's really what
makes it sexy. Wow, But to come up bring it
(24:16):
back to you and underwear, like, I've never to be
really honest with you, I've done been acting school for
ten years. I've never thought I've always worn my own underwear.
I thought, what would And I've played women in their
fifties that probably would wear different like when like powerful
women that work in legal firms. That's probably a different
vibe to isn't it? What makes sense because it's like
(24:37):
it's one of the first choices you make in a
day as well, and it's like it has such an
impact as a human we know on like you're confidence,
how you feel within your own skin, Like it's a
no brainer in the way that you mentioned like things
in the pockets as well, like I know, if I'm nervous,
I'll put like a lucky ring in my lurl, make
sure I've got a certain thing on or or even
(24:59):
like as hippus it sounds like a crystal or a
lucky coin or something like. And I think this is
probably more common than we realize as far as human
nature goes. And yeah, I mean, like I said, I
could talk to you all day long, I have to
ask you because I've got to know you as a friend.
We've also worked together, you feel, and having been a
(25:21):
wonderful participant in many of your yoga classes as well,
you are somebody that is clear, specific, and I believe
attention to detail is probably one of your hallmarks.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
How do you find that that serves you?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Working in this like the entertainment industry, and like say
you're working on a TV show or a movie. These
are like high pressure, very high pressure, lots of money worlds.
How important to you is that attention to detail?
Speaker 3 (25:53):
I mean, it's tremendously important, and there's plenty of ways
that it.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
The systems that you work within help support that.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
I mean, like if you're working on a film or
TV show, the amount of like paperwork and schedules that
you're looking at to stay on top of things are.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Endless, right, But I think the attention to detail, I
mean it's it's.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
The desire to serve the not only the script and
the actor and the story, but to like find the
right things, so like I can.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Be obsessive if it's the right piece.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
And I mean a dear friend of mine who used
to assist me on shows when I lived in New York,
I would find a piece of research or draw something
and be like, this is that's it.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
I'm obsessed with this blouse. It has to be that blouse.
I can't do it. And it can't happen without it,
Like that's what I need it. It needs to be that.
But and it you know, there's that idea of like,
oh god, why is it that?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
But you've done all of that work, with the conversations
with the actor, the director, the research, the design like
it has. It's that important. So finding the right piece
of jewelry, the right fabric, the right thing is is
so important and you know, you can.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
Be upset, you know, it can be obsessive.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
And then the detail part of it beyond that is
just you know, if I'm working in as an assistant,
I try to be as humanly possible on top of
the details in the scheduling because it is fast and
it's furious, and you you're once it starts, you're on
the train and if you fall off, it's really hard
to get back on. So you just you try to
(27:32):
stay on top of it and try to keep all
of those details in line in your process. And if
that's like making a calendar, making your spreadsheet, whatever that is.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
It's cool to hear you talk about that because that
is a big part. Like I think us creatives can be.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Like, oh, like let's just be I want to be
in the art and I want to.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, there is actually like very much a procedure and
protocol aside to it as well, and like being so
ready with all like yes, the art so import but
also like that preparation as well is like key.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, I mean there's like the art I think of it,
like the process has its like artsy fartsy time, and
you get to be creative, you get to design. You're
never not creative throughout the process, but at a certain
point the practicality has to become the thing. So it's
like we've got to you know, when you're working in
a film, it's like, okay, this has to get established
and then when that's done, I've got to run to
(28:24):
this place and pick up those clothes and.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Shop for that, and then we have this fitting.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Like that cycle is really important and you're not not
creative in it, but at a certain point it's like yes,
if the thing isn't there, you've got to make a
different choice, and you've got to solve the puzzle piece
because it's either got to go on stage or it's
got to be on camera.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
And at a certain point, the deadline is the deadline.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, Oh I love that and it's very inspiring. I
have to ask you about the menu and is it
true you made edible chocolate hats.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
It was the best part of working.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
I mean I always like, I always like finding there's
always one thing on a project that you used to
like figure out and when. And this was again the
amazing Amy Wescott who hired me on to do the
menu with her. We got to Savannah where we were
shooting it, and we were reading the script and I
thought they were props. I was like, this is gonna
be the props perment, like this would be great. And
she was like, I knew, can you figure out how
(29:20):
to make these hats out of chocolate? Like what can
we do to make these hats?
Speaker 4 (29:23):
And I was like huh. And so there was a local.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Like chocolate local chocolate shop and the owner of that
shop was working with the art department because there was
all the other chocolate stuff that was happening, so he
was helping them with that. So I just emailed him
and was like, can I come to your shop one
night after work and can you teach me how like
how do you make these molded chocolate things that you make?
And he taught me how to temper chocolate and make
(29:52):
these molds.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
With like.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
Clean not cling film, but like yeah, yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Know, like when you write on a projector of those
clear plastic sheets, like using those to make the mold
and the shapes and drying them. And ultimately those were
beautiful but too delicate, and so I ended up using
like tutsi roll.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
It's called modeling job butt.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
It's like a big vat of tutsi roll and rolling
it out and making different shapes and carving out the
interior so it would be thinner in some parts so
it would collapse more easily. I mean, you can ask
my partner. Our refrigerator in Savannah was full of these
like prototype chocolate hats and just getting it to the
right consistency in the thickness and then covering them in
(30:32):
magic shell that like dessert topping, so that it was hard,
but then as it warmed, it would look like it
was oozing more. And then we worked with the FX
department to put this rig underneath the hat that had
more oozy chocolate. And then it was just a bunch
of us standing out of the frame with heat guns
pointed at the hats so that it would start to
melt and collapse while they filmed it.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Oh my goodness, so good. Yeah, I have to go
back and watch that.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
That's going to be crazy.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
And the marshmallow bunch are real marshmallows that we and
we tried everything. We were like, can we dip them
in some kind of shellac to cover them so they
last longer? And the best thing was just heart gluing
them to the fabric and covering them in corn starts
so they didn't look too shiny.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
So it's all real. It was, It was all real.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Okay, I I obviously have to ask you this, and
this was one of the first questions I asked you
the day I met you over a year ago.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Now oh yeah, oh god, I forgot again.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Yes, having our little coffees, what is your like? North
Star Dream Job dream geek.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
It's designing for the Brigands Festival, and oh my god,
I thought I was like going to look it up
and be more knowledgeable. But it's an opera company that
produces operas on a lake and the audience sits on
the barge or no, no, they sit and it stands
on land and they look at this massive productions that
(31:58):
is built in the middle of this lake.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
And it's just the scale of it, the.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Number of performers, scuba divers, not only like actors, but
there's like the safety team and people in the water
if someone falls in God for a bit, like it's
a feat And to look at those productions and to
watch some of them that have been recorded and put
online that you can watch through the library.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, I want to see this.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
It's incredible, it's gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
This is on a much smaller scale, but you should
go to Australia because you know the Sydney Opera House,
there's a movie screen that comes out of the water
and you see it.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
I've been there.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
I see it.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah, and you watch the movie like the screen is
in the water.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
That's so and you're on a boat, you're on land
like same.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Things on seats. It's so cool. It's an outdoor theater obviously.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
So like you got the Scars Stars at night, you've
got the Sydney like the Sydney Harbor Bridge behind and
you're watching from a movie premiere.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
How mental, that's how cool.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Amazingly I'll add that one to the list. I'll have
a movie that'll premiere one day.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
And that's where it'll be.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, we'll go together. Thanks, hopefully I'm in it.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Okay, So I have to ask because you are such
an amazing creative and so many people listen to this
pod that are like I've got this dream and like
they've got that spark in their chest and but and
I like, I feel this way sometimes too. Sometimes that
all feels a little bit too oh what if I fail?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
And scary?
Speaker 2 (33:24):
What advice do you have for someone that's got a
creative dyam? It can be like you can speak directly
to costume or you can speak to broad I think.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
The things I've learned, even in learning them about myself
and being in this industry, that there can be a
lot of anxiety. It can be a lot of that
tension of like this is my last job. I'm never
going to work again, Like.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Every job feels like it will be the last.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Because even if you're on a movie that's shooting for
three months, by month end of month one, you're like,
oh my god, I only have two months left. I
really I've got to look for and not what am
I going to do next?
Speaker 4 (34:00):
What am I doing? What am I doing? And that
will drive you crazy and.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Will it just creates so much and I speak from
experience a lot of internal tension about what's next. So
first piece of device, just know that this, the current job,
is not the last.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
It will not be the last.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
There will be more, and that you just not only
like trust in that, but you everything will will create
the momentum that builds upon itself and the network you
have where the something will lead to something and it
may not be immediate, it might take a minute, but
it will it will be there. All of those things
(34:38):
will will start to align if you can, as best
as you can, put away some of the anxiety of it.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
I mean in addition to that, I mean, I think
if you.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
If you're kind to people and not only kind to people,
but kind to yourself in that process that like, it's
so much it's a.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
Hard job to begin with that like.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
If we're if you're working collaboratively, or you're kind to people,
it will make it just makes life easier. And so
if you can, like I find that if you can
let go of that anxiety of it but making it
all perfect and doing the right job, it's easier to
be kind to yourself and to the people you're working alongside,
because without that anxiety, it's just an easier space to
(35:28):
be in totally.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
And there's a saying like talent will get you the job,
but your kindness will keep the job and your work
ethic usually, but like that because remember, like especially the
INtime industry, once you start to swim in those pools,
they're kind of small. Yeah, And so if someone's like,
oh my god, I just love working Christopher, like, it's
no surprise that Amy keeps being like, hey, I'm doing
this gig, come join, you know, And I think that that's. Yes,
(35:51):
you're obviously very hard work or and amazingly talented, but.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
You're also fun to work with, you know.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
And I think that if you're kind and fun to
work with people, and I think that that's my theory.
I haven't told you this, but that's why I think
ossies do quite well in the entertainment history, because they
work really hard, but they're kind of like free, chill and.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Very like, yeah, no worries, let's get that's right.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Like it's that fun, kind of laid back, but then
the work as well. And I think that's why American's like, yeah,
you okay, let's.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
Get the.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
I don't know that's my theory, but it's kind of
like what you're saying, like, work hard, don't worry, but
be really kind so that yeah, someone sees your work.
But also like Christopher was amazing on set, so he's
to work with kind fun. Let's get Christopher back. You know,
it makes total sense. I watched not to quote the
King of Movies right now, but I watched In with
(36:42):
Leo and Leonardo DiCaprio, by the way that's referring to,
and he literally said, they said, of course, And someone
said what advice would you have for your younger self?
And he goes, stop worrying and keep moving He's like,
just keep moving forward, but stop worrying about it. And
most actors say that a lot of creatives that freelance life.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
You're like, where's the next thing? Can't come from?
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Oh my goodness, I'm going to be out of pay rent.
Like there's that We leave that life in that freelance world.
But then there comes a point where you kind of
like do the work and turn that like anxiety almost
into excitement for the next job.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And if I mean there's nothing
and the more you do it, Like I'm not the
like networking quote unquote networking that is required in this.
I feel like I'm really bad at it. Like I
get really go to like a party or like an event,
I'm really gonna have conties and I don't know what
to do. Like, the more you do it, the slightly easier.
(37:43):
It's not gonna if I don't think it'll ever.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
Be easy for me. You just have to bring a bud.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Yeah, But also the more you do it, the easier
it is. And like if it's a person you want
to work with. And I'm still practicing this every day
when I see a production or I see someone that
I want to get to know better or just have
a coffee with, not even in relationship of like please
hire me, but like just to get to know someone
else working in the industry, just send the email.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Do you know what?
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I interviewed a big movie exec producer, and I was like,
what did I asked the same question I asked you,
and she goes Most people don't ask. Don't be afraid
of being like, hey, I'm a huge fan of your work.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Please keep me in mind, you know.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
And I think that's how a lot of work happen
when you get the courage to ask let that anxiety go,
because I think the anxiety is a huge block on
so many levels, like spiritual, emotional, all the things physical
as well. But I think when you let the anxiety go,
and also I think there's a picture of like, hey,
you know, do look at your do look at your resume.
Its flip an unreal my friend, Like there's so much
(38:45):
cool stuff that you've done.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
You are like this is for me. It just feels
like I can't wait to keep watching the rest of
your journey unfold. I hope we get to work together again,
but on.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
A set, let's do it will always be asked.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Thank you so much for jumping on the pod.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
You're flipping wonderful and to the listener, I'm going to
have your Insta in the show notes as well as
your website because I just think you're unreal and I
want more people to know you.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Thank you, Thank you emailed it.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
That's a wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always,
thank you to our guests, and let's continue the conversation
on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I'm at Yamo lollaberry.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
This potty my word for podcast is available on all
streaming platforms. I'd love it if you could subscribe, rape
and comment, and of course spread the love.
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