784. Fearlessly Failing: Jana Firestone

Therapy, Reality TV, and Finding Your Way: Jana Firestone 

Step into the world of mental health, pop culture, and personal growth as nutritionist and podcast host Lola Berry sits down with therapist, author, and podcast host Yana Firestone. In this intimate conversation, they explore the unexpected connections between therapy, anxiety, and our fascination with reality television.

Yana opens up about her journey through grief after losing her mother at 21 and how working at a coroner's court during Australia's devastating Black Saturday bushfires shaped her understanding of trauma. The conversation weaves through personal revelations about health anxiety, the mind-body connection, and finding resilience through life's unexpected plot twists.

Timestamps and Key Takeaways:

8:30 - Health anxiety and how our bodies manifest stress physically
15:20 - The importance of movement for mental health as a "circuit breaker" for anxiety
19:45 - How routine and habits provide control in an unpredictable world
24:30 - Yana's delayed journey to therapy despite being a therapist herself
32:15 - Finding the right therapist match and the courage to be vulnerable
38:40 - Elvis Presley as a comfort during grief and the spiritual experience of Graceland
44:10 - "Pop Therapy" - analysing reality TV personalities through a therapeutic lens
52:30 - The mental health benefits of travel, even short trips, as a form of self-care
59:45 - Managing energy as an introvert in an extroverted world

Whether you're struggling with anxiety, fascinated by human behaviour, or simply looking for ways to prioritise your mental health, this episode offers valuable insights and practical advice. Yana's final recommendation? Find just one small thing to do each day that moves you forward - that tiny motion can make all the difference.

Listen now to discover how embracing our vulnerabilities and understanding our patterns can lead to greater resilience and joy.

Hope you love this chat with Jana, you can follow her here: https://www.instagram.com/jana.firestone/

Ans here's her website too: https://www.janafirestone.com/

Big love, 

Lola 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Get a. I'm Lola Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter,
and professional oversharer. This podcast is all about celebrating failure
because I believe it's a chance for us to learn,
grow and face our blind spots. Each week, I'll interview
a different guest about their highs as well as they're lows,

(00:26):
all in a bid to inspire us to fearlessly fail.
Hello Gangles. Today on the pod we have Yana Firestone.
She's a therapist, author of two books, speaker, host of
the Curious Life Pod, and into this thing called pop

(00:47):
therapy that we're going to talk about today because half
the reason she's even in America to record this pod
is for this thing called Bravocon that is going on
in Vegas as we speak. And Yanna reach out to
me said, Hey, I'm going to be in LA for
a couple of days. Can I jump on the pod?
And I've been on her pod, so I thought, you
know what, this is great And can I just say

(01:09):
if you ever feel a bit anxious or unsure or
I get these like health anxieties where I think the
world's about to end. If I feel the tiniest bit
of pain and I break it all down with Yanna,
and I ask if it's normal to feel those things
when we're stressed out. There are some really great takeaways
and habits just for overall mental health. So I hope

(01:32):
you love this chart. It's a bit more of an
educational mental health one and I learn loads, so I
hope you do too. Welcome to the pod, Yana Firestone.
You're a podcaster therapist, author of two books, Correct Mama,
Bear to three Bambinos and a pop Correct a four

(01:52):
month old Pappuccino.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yes, Banjo has our latest edition.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Great name. Actually, I love that as it I'm and
I have this thing on our phone dog names, Yes,
and I feel like Banjo's a goodie.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Banjo came about after about seventy five different other verses. Okay,
so the first one we had he had a blue
collar when we got him, and so my eldest was like,
what about ocean? And I kind of loved it.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
That's cool.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
But then the more we were saying it's, the weirder
it started to get in our mouths, and so then
it was about literally seventy five different iterations for three days.
And then I woke up before I am and I
was like, what about Banjo.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, Banjo's great, and we just went with it. Oh yeah,
banjo feels really good. Yeah. We fostered a pup last
year and he was in a pickle, so we called
him Pickle.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Oh god, yeah, that's a really cute name.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
And they wanted to call him Otis and we were like, well,
he's our foster, we're calling Pickle. Okay, I've read your book,
I have listened to your pod. There is so much
I want to talk to you about, but I do
want to start with Plot Twist book. I started it
and the opening pretty much the opening chapter is like

(03:06):
I was like, oh wow, we're deep diving into grief,
straight out of the gates, straight out. But what I
really love that you share So your style of writing
is storytelling. So it's so easy to read. It's almost
like watching a movie of your life. Did it feel
like that to write?

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yes, So my first book felt a little.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Bit more dry, and that was that called again.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
It was called Embracing Change. Yeah, similar vibes. It was
stories from my life and the pod and and.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
You know, therapeutic life.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
But it just the direction from my editor at that
time was just to kind of keep it a bit
more clinical, and the parts I loved writing were the
storytelling parts and the stuff that was about my life.
And so that's kind of what I wanted this book
to be more like, because you know, the idea of
writing a book, it's like the ultimate fantasy, like you're
going to be sitting in like here in a beautiful apartment,

(04:01):
looking at the Hollywood sign and just like pure fantasy.
But it just becomes like any other job, as you know,
and so I just wanted to really enjoy it. So
I think that's just what comes naturally to me, is
the storytelling and writing a bit more creatively.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
So loved it. I love that because, to be honest,
when you open up the first two pages book and
you're like, okay, this is a book about potentially it
feels like a bit grief and navigating grief, and you
share about losing your mum when you're twenty one and
like that feeling. And so I felt like the first
few pages, I was like, whoa, I've been not hit
by a truck, but it felt like a lot to absorb.

(04:40):
And then the way you storytell and share in this
really honest. It kind of feels like honest and unapologetic.
I would say, is kind of your tone because you're like, yeah,
I masked for years and yeah, like I was twenty one,
I was doing all these things that with the wrong

(05:00):
thing to do. But there were so many great moments
of like you being like, don't make the same Like
here's here's what I did. It didn't work. Yeah. I
love that You're kind of like, yeah, what's and all.
It's kind of like how I describe this style of
and I have to now that I now that we've
covered like your style of writing, now can I ask

(05:22):
you a million questions about it?

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (05:24):
Okay, great, Because I'm obsessed with therapy. I think we've
talked about this before. We have. Therapy is my non negotiable.
So hearing the way you share just at certain things
in this book, I'm like, oh my god, I can't
wait to talk. So first of all, can we talk
about health anxiety? Oh my god? Because a week ago,

(05:45):
I woke up in the middle of night and I
was like, oh, I've got a sharp pain on my
left side, like left rib. Oh, I've got tingles down
my left arm. I wake that up. I'm like, I'm
just gonna let you know. I think I'm having a
hard at time, and he's like, it's anxiety, and I
was like, excuse me. I was like, it's in my
left arm, it's not my right. Like my brain couldn't

(06:05):
put together that I'd probably slept wrong on it. And
it turned out I had no idea. But we were
going on a trip where I would feel out of
control because we were going on trip with other people.
And he said, you've got anxiety because we're going on
a trip and you're going to feel out of control.
And I was like what, and he's like, your body
always manifests anxiety in it was something physical, whether it's headache,

(06:28):
neck pain, sharp pains in my chest. And he's like,
that's how you do it. And you speak not do it,
but that's how my body manifests anxiety. And you speak
about two things really well, well, so many things, but
two things I really want to unpacked right now. Health anxiety.
And I know you because of your history of where

(06:48):
you've worked, but also how anxiety can manifest and that
mind body connection. Yes, so it's a bit of a
true prong question.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Oh my god, get away it is. It's just it's
hilarious because I'm picturing you and Matt in bed, and
it's exactly man Chris like, and he is so like
as relaxed as Matt probably is about it. At this point,
it's just like, You're fine, it's anxiety, you know, You've
got nothing to worry about it. And he's got permanent
claw marks in his arm when I'm like, oh my god,

(07:19):
I'm dying, you know, like constantly, and you know, like
it is. It is just so exhausting to constantly feel
like everything that happens in your body is life ending.
And that happens to me constantly, even with like all
of my years. I've been a therapist now for like
over eighteen years. I can help other people with their issues,

(07:44):
and I cannot apply it to myself. So it's like
any twinge, I've got a bit of a sinus thing,
my head feels a bit blocked, I'm having a brain tumor,
and I'm dying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know. It's it's
the arm tingle. It's always why is it always the
left side? I never get on my right side ever,
And it's like it's just a constantly exhausting thing, and

(08:07):
you know, there's so many reasons for it. And I think,
you know, part of it is my mum died suddenly
when I was twenty one, and that was kind of
like the entree into oh my God, like big bad
things can happen, like out of the blue. And then
I worked at the coroner's core and it was like,
you know, all I was working with intensively all day

(08:29):
every day was sudden and unexpected death, right. I know,
it was like that in detail. It wasn't even just
working with the grief that surrounding the losses. I was
deep in the you know, autopsy reports and police photos
and everything because I had to be for the role,

(08:51):
and so it was all I was living and breathing.
So I would honestly turn up to my GP and
be like, you know what, I've got X, Y and Z.
And he looked me and said, look, you're reasonably fit.
If you're young, you're healthy, you'll be fine. And I'm like, no,
young and healthy people drop dead all the time. And
He's like, listen, if it was that, this is what

(09:13):
I would be looking for, you know. And you know,
still to this day, I've had the same doctor my
whole life, and I went to him recently with a
mole on my back and I'm like, Greg, I know
I always think this is the end, but this time,
for real, I think this is really serious. And he's like, okay,
well let me have a look. Yeah, and he's like, no,

(09:33):
that's fine, It's just it's just a whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
So you know, one thing, I've just turned forty, I thought.
I went to my doctor and I was like, what
is this thing? And she's like, that's an aging barnacle
and I was like, excuse me, I'm not a pirate, Like,
do not say that. And she's like, yeah, like you
you're forty, like that's normal. And I was like, get
rid of it and she was like what and I
was like it's gotta go. I could not. No. No,

(10:00):
It's like and I think, I think, and I love
the way you say, like getting older is such a gift,
but also like it comes with those things where you're like,
well now, oh TikTok like I was. I was working
at yoga studio here in La and I was just
stressed by it because I wasn't totally alive with my
passion bubb blah, and I got full blown chest pain

(10:22):
and I was like, oh, today's day here where you go,
and of course I was fine. I come home to
Matt and I was like, I literally thought I wasn't
going to see each other. Oh my god, because you
just get that pain of anxiety and it can overtake
you totally, even with all the men Like I'm nine
years into therapy every two weeks, like I don't miss it,
and I and I'm like, with all the work you do,

(10:43):
it can still get you totally.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
And I think this is the thing about that connection
between mind and body is that no matter how much
control we think we have over our mind, our mind
is ten million times more powerful than anything we can
think of and can create things and physical symptoms in

(11:06):
our body that are not even real or you know,
it just the panic that sets in so instantaneously when
you've got you know, maybe you were like sitting in
a funny position and so you've got a little bit
of a twinge in a muscle. It instantly floods your
body with anxiety and oh this is the end. It's

(11:27):
world end. So yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
I do love the way you This is later in
the book, but you talk about the power of movement,
because I will know, like if I've skipped a couple
of days even just like not getting out because La.
To live in La, it's amazing, but it is. And
I know, you're like, oh my god, you've got the
Hollywood sign. It's an effing beast some days though, and
some days like I literally one day, this isn't not

(11:53):
a whatever. I went for an ice cream with my
bud that lives in the same building and we got
chased home. Whoa literally someone screaming running towards us and
like to get into the front door is an app
and I was like I couldn't get the app up. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
and that was away and so I was like, oh okay.
Like so LA can feel like a bit unsafe sometimes

(12:14):
and there's been like so many things. And really the
flip side is obviously you get very very resilient and
you get super hyper vigilant and aware, but that also
like takes a mental cost as well. And so like
I notice if I skip or I like don't get
out and do a really nice big walk, or don't
move my body in the gym, that anxiety stuff. It's

(12:35):
almost like it's hyper ready to go totally. Yeah, how
important do you think movement is for mental health support.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
I think it's one hundred percent important, Like that is
the one thing we can all be doing, no matter
what your level of fitness, skill, time, money. It's the
only thing we can do anywhere, anytime. And it's literally
you know, getting up and like standing up and doing
a few like squats, even just that simple movement like

(13:05):
oh my god, I haven't been from a walk today,
or I don't like running or whatever. It is just
just bending standing up and down ten times will give
you such a boost. And it really it sounds so
cliched and like as if that's going to help, but
it truly does. It just gives a balance of the
hormones and.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
The little circuit breaker.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, totally, And I'm the same if I haven't moved,
that anxiety is next level.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, And it just it's like it's ready to go.
It's like sitting on your shoulder.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Like hey, yeah, totally.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
Whereas I think if you're moving you can be like,
oh I'm gonna you can almost catch yourself a little
bit and be like that necessarily isn't that feeling? Isn't me?
It's not who I am? Yeah, but it's Yeah, I
noticed that I think movement is just a key to
like I don't know, just there's something where it's just like, yes,

(13:59):
it's a circle breaker, but also it's like such a
nice way to connect with other people as well, Like
I'll meet people for walks as opposed to like I
don't know, going out for drinks. Sometimes it's just meet
for a walk. I don't know. There's something really special
about and the usually the conversations you have when you're
moving with someone, like you're out exercising, la, we've got

(14:19):
hikes everywhere, you'll have these really deep conversations. Ye, I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
I don't know if there's a lot, but it absolutely is.
It's like when you need to have conversations with kids,
with teenagers, the best thing you can do is have
not front facing, eye connected conversations. You have side by
side conversations. And that happens going for walks or in
the car, and so there is something about the eye contact.

(14:47):
It's very intense to sit across from a table from
somebody having a coffee. It takes a different amount of energy,
even if it's the best time ever. H it's a
different thing. But when you're walking and moving together and
you're side by side, it's something shifts and you just
can go deeper.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
There's something about I think men prefer to communicate that
something about that's why like men like go to the
pub or watch sports together or even play like sit
next week to the plane. Yeah, and you're you're a.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Boy, Yes, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
I love all this human behavior stuff like how we
like to communicate. How important do you think habit and
routine is for mental health? And I know you talk
about it being really good for like moving through stages
of grief because it brings a little bit of like,
oh I can I can make that next step, or
like data time kind of vibe. But I know I'm

(15:40):
a bit of a control freak. You're trying to figure
that out right now. But having a routine and habit
makes me feel very like secure and safe and like
I'm moving in the right direction because I've got a
career that's super out of control. Like I don't get
to decide if I book a gig or not. I
can audition for it, but having routine makes me go,

(16:00):
you know what, I'm doing the best that I can
do in the scenario that I'm in.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yes, totally it's about gaining some control in and out
of control situation. So that certainly applies to grief, and
it applies to all of us in any part of
our lives. So I'm also a bit of a control freak,
and when I lose my shit, it's basically when my
life feels a bit out of control. And that can
be as simple as coming home and the house is

(16:26):
a mess and the kids are really noisy, and it
just all feels like it's too much. But if I
know that, it's like, okay, I'm coming home or walking
the dog, and then it's going to be feed the kids,
and then it's going to be fast time. You know,
We've got this kind of set routine that I know
I'm moving through each piece and that eventually I'm going
to get to the couch.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
But even you know, in all of kind of the
chaos of life, if we wake up knowing that ten am,
I've got you know, I go to pilates, and then
I've you know, got eleven o'clock I'm meeting this person,
and then at twelve o'clock I'm doing that doesn't have
to be even a regimented thing every single day. But
having a schedule seems to give people that sense of

(17:06):
control when things feel.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
I love a mad I love a schedule. I have
like written diary, I reckon. It gives me a don't
mean like to tick something off. I'm done, onto the next.
And like a busy schedule I can handle. Like a
non busy I'm like, I know, I find it a
little bit like if there's no structure there, I.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Find it a little bit harder. I'm exactly the same.
And I think again, because that is one giant blank
space of being out of control, because there's ten thousand
things you could possibly do in that day. Oh my god,
I've got the day off. How am I going to
spend it all? Like?

Speaker 1 (17:43):
What am I gonna do?

Speaker 2 (17:43):
I should exercise, I should see a friend, I should
I'm gonna do all that washing, I need to do
X Y and zed. How am I going to fill
the day? And then it's like, you know, task paralysis,
It's like what do I do? Oh my god, I'm
freaking out. Now I'm dying because I've got a heart attack.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah that's I think that like and that pro procrastination.
And I had a really great chat with my therapist
recently and I was like, I'm like, I'm procrastinating, and
he goes, you're in a job. He's like, you've got
a job as an actor where you have to wait
for people to give you work. And he's like, you're
in the habit of waiting. He's like, piss that off.

(18:17):
And he's like, just start doing the stuff that you
want to do each day. And like, obviously books part
all this great stuff that I'm very much in control of,
but that acting stuff, if I rely so heavily on
it and it becomes my identity, it's so hard. Like
I get into this loop. And he's like, no, no,
you don't need to wait for anyone. Keep doing. But yeah,

(18:37):
it's humans are fascinating. I want to read you a
quote from your book that you said, Okay, oh God,
do yourself a favor. Don't wait as long as I
did to get into therapy. Do you think and now
this is like a generalized thing, but we can all
learn something from going to therapy, right, And I.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Don't know there was an arrogance in me or some
sort of immaturity that didn't send me to therapy. Like
I was living my life one day, everything was great.
I was a party girl, I was working in a bar.
I was having such a good time, loving life. I
just finished studying musical theater and I was like, this

(19:21):
is like now we're going to have some fun. And
then my mom just like dropped dead. And I was
like absolutely devastated, in complete grief and distress and all
those things. And then I knew I was feeling those
things because my mom died. So I was like, what
could a therapist possibly tell me that I don't already know,

(19:42):
you know, like, there's no reason for me to go.
I'm fine. I talk about it all the time. I
talk to my friends, I talk to my dad, I'm
talking to my brother, I'm talking to my auntie, Like
I don't need another person to talk to. But I
totally missed the point, which is having somebody completely outside
of your world to give you perspective on things and

(20:04):
to help you to think about things in a different way.
Where my friends and my family want to make me
feel better or just want to like commiserate or validate
what I'm saying or give an opposing opinion. I had people,
you know, relatives that had their own grief. Every single
person there was affected by it. In their own way,
so they had their own things that they needed to

(20:26):
say and share, and it just was not I mean,
it's important, but it's not beneficial.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
You know.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
I wasn't going to grow or evolve and my grief
wasn't going to change just relying on those sources of contact.
So for me, it took decades to get into therapy,
which is outrageous.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
I was a therapist, that's right, Yeah, that's crazy, it is.
And you also didn't you work with like the Black
Saturday is it black? Yeah? The Black Saturday push fires? Yeah,
and then you saw a therapist to help like that
was provided, right, a therapist to help you guys, like
because you describe it as working in a war zone. Yeah,

(21:09):
yeah it was.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
So that's the biggest, the worst bushfire we've had in Australia.
There was one hundred and seventy three people that died
in Victoria and I was secondered from working with victims
of crime over to the coroner's court and we just
hit the ground running and it was, you know, almost
ground zero.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
There were people that were still missing, you.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Know, many many, many, many people that hadn't been found
or identified yet. So it's a very slow process, and
there were hundreds of families that were just you know,
incomplete shock and despair, and not only the terrible death
toll that happened, but there were thousands of people that

(21:54):
lost their homes, yeah, and livelihoods and everything, like millions
of animals, and so it was just like a bomb
had gone off across you know, country Victoria. So I
was working with those people very intensively for you know,
the whole time that I was at the Corner's Court

(22:16):
was four and a half five years, and it was
towards the it was at least a year in I
would say that they brought somebody in, a trauma expert
to start doing debriefing with us. By that point, we
were so far gone and we were in such deep
vicarious trauma, which is when you know you're living and

(22:37):
breathing somebody else's trauma and you become traumatized by it.
That Yeah, it just sort of felt like, oh okay,
a bit of an afterthought. But they got the best
trauma expert in the country, and he's fantastic and to
this day I'm still connected to him. And I had
the experience for the first time of like, oh whoa

(22:59):
like this is what it's like to sit with an
amazing therapist who brings things to light in a way
that you just could never possibly see because of where
you are in your own world.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Well, you were having nightmares, right, And he was like
he like straightaway said something like you're trying to like
undo the people that died, like you didn't something there
was some like epiphany. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
It was like I kept having these dreams that I
was at in my family home, which I didn't live
at home. I lived with my boyfriend, but I oh
no that sab I was single. I was living on
my own. But I kept seeing myself in the family home,
in the living room and in the place where all
the photo albums are, and the fire was descending like

(23:46):
down the street and was all around us, and I
just knew I had like minutes to grab the most
essential and Mum had died, so all I wanted was
the photos. Yeah, And I was like scrambling to put
boxes of photos together and just that you know, you know,
it's almost like when you have those nightmares where you're
trying to ring for help and you can't press the
buttons or you can't run, ye you know, yeah, yeah,

(24:11):
so it was like that, and I had these boxes
and I was feeling them and feeling them, and they
would pick up the box and they'd fall out from
the bottom of the box, and I'm trying to get
them again, and like the fires like coming around. And
then he sat with me, and you know, I kept
having all variations of those kinds of dreams of trying
to escape the fire. And he said something like, you know,

(24:34):
you're just what you're trying to do is you're trying
to save all of these people that couldn't be saved,
but obviously much more eloquently, and it was very poignant
and connected to exactly what you know was happening in
the dreams. And I was like, oh god, I thought
this was totally about me, and this is all about

(24:55):
my experience because we're so egocentric, and I know that's
like such a yucky word, but of course we are.
We live our lives thinking about ourselves and our place
in the world and where we fit in. And it
just sort of opened my eyes to, oh, wow, this
is like so connected to the other people that I'm
working with that aren't here, whose families I'm talking with

(25:16):
every day. That's what this is about. And then it
started from there and we started really unpacking everything that
had been happening. And you know, I went on and
worked with him for a little while, and then after
I stopped working with him just because again stupidly, and
I think we make this mistake so often. I just

(25:37):
couldn't make the time work and it was like, oh,
his office is really far away, and I just it
dropped in the priority list. And I think this happens
to a lot of us, where we start feeling better,
we start thinking like.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Oh, we're okay now fine, I don't yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
Exactly, and then it's like no longer needed, and then
we're spiraling again within a very short period of time.
So I would have done much better had I continued
with therapy, because the health anxiety really really intensified from
all of that work, of course, and I would be
having anxiety driving the car, constantly thinking something was happening

(26:14):
to me, and I had all the language to put
to it. I'm like, oh my god, I'm having an
aortic aneurysm or I'm having a whatever I had just
read about at work. So yeah, if you are listening
and you are thinking about therapy, like, don't even hesitate,
like make that call and just get there.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
I love that you said, because I know that, and
I've totally fallen into this habit of like everything's great.
What am I going to talk to my therapist about
this week? Trust me, that's when the real work really
kicks in. I remember that what got me to therapy.
I was thirty one and I just went through a
really shitty breakup and there was no closure. So I
was like on a hamster. I couldn't figure it out.
He'd moved on within a week, like something crazy, and

(26:55):
I was like fuck it. I'd like I got to
give something to try. We wrapped that relationship up in
three sessions.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah. And at the end of the third session, I
was like, so can I come back? And he's like, yeah,
let's do the real work now, Like let's and so
that's what made me be like, oh wow, Like having
a therapist to me feels like a superpower, Like it
gives you resilience, which you write beautifully about. I think

(27:21):
it's one of the best like human values or like
traits to have. And it also lets you because, as
you say, like we all go through shitty times and
plot twists and like rejection and breakups and like annoying
shit at work too, or like toxic people all that shit. Yeah,

(27:43):
and like having someone in your corner, like you said
earlier that isn't connected to you know, your family and
your butt, Like having someone that's literally going to come
in give it to you pretty straight and just be
like non bias, like this is what you're saying, this
is how it's it's like sounding to me, and you're like,
oh shit, I never looked at it that way, or

(28:05):
like sometimes it's like a really nice shake up in
the best kind of way to be like, oh my god,
I was looking at it totally wrong. Yeah, But I
will say it took me a while to find the
right therapist because I tried earlier on in my twenties
with eating disorder stuff, and I would only last like
four or five six sessions and then be like, ah,

(28:27):
this is And for me it was always about this
sounds really and tell me you can psychoanalyze this as
much as you want. But I needed someone that would
give it to me straight and like almost tough love,
like no bullshit kind of didn't.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Know you were looking for that though I had no idea.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
I didn't know until I walked in and was like, oh, yeah,
that's that, And like I had no idea, but this
therapist specifically worked with profiders, actors and people in really
high power jobs, and it's like that real high levels
of stress and high levels of rejection the actors and fighters,
and like it's so and we do keep seeing no therapy.

(29:04):
So I have no idea that that was like, Oh,
that's the magic trip. But it does take a little
bit of time to find the right fit for you,
because I'm sure who I was with earlier when in
my twenties was so nurturing and perfect for someone going
through eating disorders and all that kind of stuff. But
for me, I was like I need someone to just
like shake me a little bit. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Well, it's like any relationship. You know, you're not just
gonna fall in love with the person that you first
try to have a relationship with.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Ya.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
You know, it's got to be the right person for you.
And you know, maybe those really loving people in the
beginning are not perfect for all eating disorder stuff. Like,
it's just it's the personality stuff. You got to really
click and they've got to you got to kind of
speak the same language.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, that's it totally. Yeah, And I don't know if
this for you is really important, but like I know,
I have to feel super safe to like go to
the darkest places of my psyche and feel really safe
to be like I don't know if I like, you
don't want to feel judged, but you want to be

(30:12):
able to go everywhere. Does that make sense? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (30:15):
And I think one of the things that can be
really tricky for people, and I know this is true
for me. I can be a bit of a people
pleaser and so and I think also knowing it's hard
being a therapist, so I sort of come at it
already having had a peek behind the veil. So it's
like I go in there and I want to do
a good job for the therapists because I want them

(30:36):
to like, you know, feel good about themselves that they're
doing a good job and they're getting the most out
of me.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
And oh, yeah, that'd be tricky.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
It's really tricky. I've got somebody now who's amazing and
like we just totally vibe. She's American, but she's in
Australia and we just really click and she gets it.
And so there was nothing wrong with any of the
other people I've seen before, but I felt like the
people pleaser in me was really high with them, and

(31:09):
they'd asked me to do something and it didn't really
feel authentic, Like it was like, let's talk to that
little girl, like can we bring her forward? And and
I would just feel like, oh my god, cam I
not okay, so and just like answer in a way
that I hope that they would want a God, you know,

(31:29):
you can't. There's such a waste of time and money.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
So yeah, that was I will literally sometimes have sessions
with my therapist and at the end he's like, we
really put me through our paces today, Lola, and I'm like,
I did. I guess I very much did today. I
was like we were on a we were in a
very complicated mood today. We were But for me that's
important to feel like Wat's and all feel safe. Yea,

(31:54):
Now this is my surprise little bit for you. Reading
the book, I was like, oh my goodness, Oh my godness,
we're going to talk about Elvis Presley. Oh my god. Please.
So I went to Graceland for the first time this
year with my mom. Did you love it? Loved isn't
he wonderful best, the best? So so I know you

(32:15):
talk about in the book when we're grieving sometimes we
can hyper fixate on something and that kind of be
a like a comfort. But I love that you're now
at a place where you can just like love Elvis
for all the magic he created and like introduce your
kiddos to the songs. And but I say, to people

(32:35):
that really love Elvis, do yourself fape. You have to
go to Graceland. Isn't it incredible?

Speaker 2 (32:40):
It is the best. It is absolutely like going to
heaven for me. And I just you know, somebody, I
don't know if I put this in the book or it,
but somebody who is like a past life kind of
person said to me, the reason you're so connected with
Elvis is you were one of his girlfriends in a
past life.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
I do know.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
And I was like, really, oh my god. And then
I had somebody else say to me, Kate Casey, actually
who does a podcast here. She said, maybe you were
actually like his mother because there's some sort of connection,
there's a deep rooted connection. I don't feel like necessarily
that I was Gladys. I would much rather have been
a girlfriend.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Know, there's there's a connection and he's there's something about
his music and it's really I challenge everybody here if
you are not familiar with Elvis, go straight to the
seventies gospel albums. It is like transcendent and his voice
is amazing and he just he just I mean, you know,
he's like fucking gorgeous.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Ah. That's I didn't know he was blonde, do you know.
Here's the reason I dried my head, like really yeah,
And I saw Elvis with Austin Butler, who's also a
blondie with blue eyes, and I was like, oh, hang on,
hang on a second. That's really expensive to have here
in America, Like I'm talking like nearly a thousand dollars everywhere.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
What.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, but I've found like this non tox breze is
totally sidebar non tox for like no toxic die bar
one hundred and twenty bucks. I walk on my hair
black and it's my Elvis era.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
And you know why he did that. It was to
make his blue eyes pop.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Because he got Priscilla to do it too.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
Well, No, she did everything herself, so did she? Yeah,
And I'm going to see her in Melbourne. By the way,
a week or two after I get home, she's coming back.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
Okay, well I would like you can write to me
and give me a full voice, not after.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
A full full recap. I've seen her before. Oh my god, sorry, guys,
we're totally but but Elvis did it because Tony Curtis
used to dye his hair black and make his eyes.
He was like a big time star of the fifties
time out, an actor from that time. And he hang on,

(34:55):
is he also Jamie Lee Curtis's dad, could possibly be.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Maybe I think she comes from Man.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yes, you'd be anyway. So he Yeah, he was very
clear about, oh, well, I want to be an actor
and I want to enhance my opportunities because in the
early days when he was coming up, he was still
blonde in the fifties. It was just when he got
to Hollywood that became the thing. Well it looks great,

(35:20):
it looks great, can I ask I?

Speaker 1 (35:23):
So I did the full house tour and everything, but
when I got to the outdoor meditation area where the
graves are, everybody just stopped talking, like it's like something
it's something spiritual washes over you, like everyone has choked
up my mom is not emotional at all. Like she's
a like trauma nurse kind of thing, not trauma, but

(35:44):
like has done all like very pragmatic, very black and white,
very logical. And I was just and I'm very comfortable crying,
no robs and I'm like just standing in his grave
being like holish. It's something like it is and you
can a pin dron like nobody speaks, and all Mom

(36:05):
did was just like put her hand on my back
and i could tell she was like just holding all
these and I'm like, something's going.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
On there is and you would have been there when Lisa,
Marie and Benjamin Key over there, so his daughter and
her son. Yeah, she's just like the layers of family tragedy,
the intergenerational trauma from this family. Like Elvis's mom died

(36:31):
when he was really young, she was very young, in
her fifties. Then he's died very young, leaving a child behind.
Then her son committed suicide, you know, and then she
has also died I think two years later, leaving behind
again very young children. I mean, there's like five generations
now living with this untimely parent and child deaths. Because

(36:56):
actually Elvis was also a twin and his his twin
was stillborn, so his mum had the loss of a
child from the beginning. So these these stories of loss
are so deeply embedded in that family. I don't know, Yeah,
it's yeah, it's something in it.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
Yeah, I think you're I think you're spot on. There
is something like so like powerful and beautiful about his music,
though it is such a tragedy that he never left America. Yes,
I'm such a tragedy, Like, oh, do you know what
I did? Though, not to nerd out too much on me,
like there is a full segway because we've got to

(37:35):
talk about Bravocon, yes, but I so I did my
trip in Memphis with my mum. She then went on
to Chicago, and I was like, fuck it, I'm going
to get a bus to Nashville. And I'm a big
Johnny Cash fan. Wow, so for me Elvis and Johnny Cash.
So I went to Sun Studio as well, and I
just got the bus there myself. I was like, and
I booked a flight from Nashville back to LA I

(37:57):
was like, I would just like do a day in Nashville.
Took myself straight to the Johnny Cash Museum. Oh my
goodness to anyone listening. If you ever go to Nashville,
everyone goes to the Country Hall of Fame. Did that
as well? Johnny Cash is another like his story is
fantastic as well, and just like and I think those
two like had a big friendship, but also there's like

(38:20):
a bit of a history of like their pain and
stuff like that. Totally yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Such, there's there's so much I don't know. I feel
like the stars of that time they just feel so
much bigger.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
Yes, oh yeah, yeah yeah. So the segue to the
stars of this time, you are here for bravocon I am.
I was like, you're like, so you into here And
I'd listened to one of your pop therapy episodes on
the Curious Life podcast and I was like, oh shit,
I better quickly do some research. And I was like, okay,

(38:55):
I don't want to fake this. So I'm like, when
have I really delved into reality television? And it turns out,
whenever I travel for work in America, it's like my
comfort to put on Brav Amazing. And last year I
was in Florida for work and this show I just
had it on the whole time and it was a
really high pressure job, like I had to be on

(39:16):
set filming, so I was like, you know when you
come home and you need something to like just like
switch off to. But there's something really comforting in it.
Southern charm.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Oh my friend, Hello, talk to me.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Okay, what do you think? Well, this is what I
want to ask you about as a therapist, because I'm like,
you're seeing all these like Peter Pan syndrome boys, bit
of bread crumbing going on and a bit of avoidance.
I would say, oh yeah, so I imagine as a
therapist you have so much joy and like unpacking these

(39:51):
different characteristics and human traits. Is that kind of the
crossover for you?

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yes, totally so Reality TV It's exactly what you're talking
about me. I discovered it when I was working at
the Corners Court and I was like, I can't watch anymore,
you know, crime and everything was like I can't even
think what was on, but everything was like grim and
I just needed a complete escape, and so I found

(40:18):
The Real Housewive somehow. I don't know actually how I
got onto it because it was not airing in Australia,
but I found someone on eBay who would burn the
DVDs for me and send them to Australia, and so
I was obsessed from the beginning. It was only Orange
County and New York were the only two at the

(40:39):
very beginning, and I was like, oh my god, I
am like so into this. But before that, it was MTV.
There was a few little bits and pieces of VH
one had some reality TV, but this was like on
a whole other level, and it just became about escape.
And then it was like I had no one to
talk to about it that point, None of my friends

(41:01):
are watching it. And then I started to discover that
there was a community.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
In a world you literally go on podcasts talking about it.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
I do, and I'm I'm obsessed with it. So it's
all about, Yeah, these people are living out lives that
are so far removed from our everyday life. But what
goes on, it's all about the minutia, and it's all
about you know, some of it's gone too far, And
if anyone's been a Real Housewives fan for a long time,
you'll know that. Now the show just is all about

(41:32):
like who said what on a podcast and who talked
to which blogger? And you told me a lie about
this and it's crap. Used to be about following people's
lives and their families and their stories. And that's why
I feel like Southern charm is way better.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Or well for me, what got me is that accent
because it also in Charleston, I think, and that like
I just love a little twang of an accent. I
was like, oh, no, this is and then like, having
watched a few but I was only in Florida for
like four days. But we'll just be on in the background.
And the way Bravo must work is you're just watching that,
like the next episode just keeps playing. It's so fun
and already I was like, oh, hang on, but this guy,

(42:10):
he's doing the dirty on her. But then he's making
her feel like she's the most special person in the world,
and it seems like they've got oodles of cash. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
Also there's yeah, there's a couple of them there that have,
you know, very very old money, big time Charleston, South Carolina,
North Carolina families. Yeah, and then there are some kind
of more everyday people that have kind of joined along.
But it's all about like the meat and potatoes of
that show are the central guys to that show who

(42:44):
are just lifelong Peter pan yees, you know, and it's
you know, they've tried to make it a little bit
more of something else by bringing in, you know, more
diversity and younger people and more girls, and it just
doesn't work as well. It's a different show. What really
holds it together is these guys that are relentlessly pursuing women,

(43:09):
claiming to be working on themselves and wanting to do better,
and it's just never any change. It's it's a joy.
It's a pure joy.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
So what's your favorite show? If you're here for brother,
what are you most excited?

Speaker 2 (43:25):
I am excited to see Look, honestly, I'm excited to
meet all the podcasters that I've been I'm seeing a
few of them here in LA and then obviously in
Vegas because we it's like, you know, we've got this
like you and me, you know, we do pods together
and then we're like online friends and so we've never

(43:45):
met in real life, so you know, to kind of
hang out with them will be really cool. But then
like real houses of Miami this year was amazing. Yeah, yeah,
the last few years has been amazing. So I'm excited
to see them. I would love to see o G
New York. Okay, some of these housewives will be there
and they are like amazing.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
They're the real richies, aren't they. Like yeah, they see
like I feel like the original Housewives. Yeah yeah, like
married to plastic surgeons and like super rich and wealthy.
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Those people are living those ridiculous lives that you just
can't even imagine.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
And is it like is brother Coon like Panels where
everyone comes on from the show and they put a
little bit like spice and fire in there to bring
two people on stage that have got a bit of beef?

Speaker 2 (44:33):
Is that kind of the VARs You have just nailed
the elevator pitch.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
That is exactly it. They did a bit of YouTube
before our chat. I was like, I gotta go in prepare.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Yes, So it's three days, like it's going to be
a marathon. I just have to prepare myself. It's everything
from like Below Deck to Southern Charm, Southern Hospitality, you.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Know, all of the real house hospitality.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
Oh it's a spin off, you love it. It's a
spin off of Southern Chart where they've got all these
young people working in a bar and one of the
girls from Southern Charm owns many many venues on King
Street and Charleston, and so it's like og vander Pump
Rules where they actually all work for real, like excuse me,

(45:18):
They're not just trying to be famous, and they are
all connected. And I think that's what makes a reality
show excellent is when there's genuine, authentic friendships and connections
because we don't care about all the people that have
been cast and thrown together on a show and we're

(45:39):
pretending that they know each other. That never works, you know,
And so this is real and it's great. I've had
one of the girls on my pod, Emmy Sharrett from
Southern Hospitality, and you know, there are it is outrageous
on a level that can only be pre that big
fame that comes, you know. Yeah, so they're like on

(46:02):
the rise and just have no no shame. Basically it's amazing.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
I love that you're like Aussy from Melbourne and you're like,
now I'm going to Vegas Bravo con here we are yeah,
like yeah, it's it's amazing. Not many Aussies I talk
to are like, oh can we talk about like you
know what I mean? And it makes sense, Like I
love this, like pop therapy kind of also as well.
I feel like these people that seemingly have it all

(46:31):
knowing like and you would know this from like a
therapist's like viewpoint and lens like same problems, yeah, same
like relationships stuff. If you don't sort out your shit
and grow up, like you're gonna sit in like not
grow up, but you know what I mean, like sit
with like why have we got a bit of bread
crumbing going on in every single episode? Or you know, yeah,
anytime something gets hard, someone just self sues with getting

(46:55):
wasted whatever. Yeah, I mean so yeah, I imagine as
a therapist it's so fun to just break down the
human behavior at all, absolutely, And.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
So I think that's why I like doing those pop
therapy episodes because I get to kind of talk about
it beyond the surface level of like just being a fan,
which I totally am. I'm a super fan, But it's
about digging deep and figuring out like what but why?
What would be the motivation behind saying something like that?
And why would they behave like that? What happened in

(47:24):
their childhood? Show me this person's family, why we need
I need to see like her mother, I need to
understand what is going on here because this is not
just for the cameras. There's something very deep here that
we need to excavate a little bit. And when they
do bring family on to some of them, like Salt
Lake City is the best franchise for me at the moment.

(47:47):
It is so they are so kooky and outrageous. They
are all completely unique people. And yes, they've been on
for a number of seasons now and it's it's it's
you know, house wise, but they are so different from
every other season. And we're starting to see why because
we're seeing these crazy, horrible parents or really, you know,

(48:10):
I mean, there's a mother. Bronwan Newport's mother comes on
and she is so cold and mean and nasty. This
is Bronwyn has I'll give you a quick snapshot. Had
They're all Mormon, right, so they've got this. A lot
of them are Mormon. They've got very strong religious beliefs.

(48:33):
Bronwyn got pregnant at you know, eighteen or nineteen unexpectedly.
She was at BYU, the Mormon university. She was kicked
out of there. She was pregnant, unmarried, horror, horror, And
she raised the child and she's now married to this
very wealthy man, businessman, very serious, who's copped a lot

(48:54):
of flack over the last few years because he's just
seems very cold and not like he doesn't like her
very much. It's really pretty awful.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
Yeah. Gross.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Then we meet the mother this season and she's exactly
like Todd a husband, and she says, you know, Bronlin's
trying to open up to her and talk about you know,
that was such a hard time for me being nineteen
and and the mother basically cuts her off and says,
it was a hard time for you. Do you know
what that did to me?

Speaker 1 (49:24):
Oh yeah, no, no, oh wow, It's like that and
that was your therapy. Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Every little micro expression that I've now seen in Bronlin,
every shutdown, all of the need to be liked by people,
it all makes so much sense.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
Yeah wow, yeah, okay, all right, well now you make
me want to watch all these amazing shows. So I
have to ask. And I love the idea of because
you know, you've got this really busy life, incredible Potteroo books, kiddos,
all of the fun things in Malves. But then you've

(50:02):
done this trip for yourself, and I want to talk
about the importance of travel being a circuit breaker. And
also I think if I think travel is a form
of self care personally, so how do you as a therapist,
Like how important do you see travel? And like it
doesn't need to be flying to the other side of
the world, but like a wee can get away or you.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
Know, it is so important. And I think even as
you say, just as simple as if you know life
is expensive, if you can just get yourself to a
change of scenery in your area, you know, just even
doing that will do wonders for your mental state. Like

(50:45):
I find even just going for a walk, like it's
like call it a bushwalk, but like just go and
find somewhere out in nature that you can just have
a completely different scenery to your everyday life. Or if
you live in the country, go and get yourself into
a city. I'll walk around the city and you'll feel
like you've been and done something that takes you out

(51:05):
of your headspace. So this this is the first time
I've been overseas since my eldest child was like eighteen
months old.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Oh wow, I.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Used to travel to ye.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
I loved it. It was like my thing.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
And then you know, when we had one kid, we
did a big trip to Europe. My partner's Dutch, so
we went and saw his family and did a few
different things around Europe. And his mom's also from New Zealand,
so we took him to New Zealand and we were like,
we went to Byron for a wedding. Like we were like,
one kid, this is amazing. Great. Then we had the
second kid and we've never left the country since. Wow,

(51:45):
and this is like the longest time in my life.
I know this sounds very privileged and disgusting, but it's
it's just simply that that did so much for my soul.
Is getting into another country, you know, going to India,
going all over Asia, you know, just immersing yourself in
a different culture, the smells and the sounds and the

(52:05):
you know, the challenge that comes with having to put
yourself in a different place. Oh, you figure out like WHOA,
what do I do here? I mean, even arriving here,
you know, it's la It's not like India. But at
the same time, I get out of the airport and
I'm like trying to get an uber and they're telling me, now,
I've got to get a shuttle to an uber zone.

(52:26):
Lax you know, and I was like, hang on, and
I'm queuing up with all these people. Literally nobody is
speaking English.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
I should have given I've got the best driver, person,
I'll give it to you for your amazing home. Yeah,
this is unreal amazing. That's what you need.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Yeah, someone that. Yeah, And I was like okay, and
like turn around to this person. I'm like, I'm so sorry,
but is this like how I get to the you know,
it's such a nothing, but it gave me a challenge
and I was like, whoa, Yeah, this is what it's
like to be back in the world again, unencumbered I have.
I've taken the kids up and down to Queensland a
few times, but to be only worrying about me and

(53:01):
my bag the whole time. I feel completely like, oh
my god, I've forgotten something. This is like home alone.
Who have I left behind? It's bizarre, but I feel
like already I feel like old me again. Within twenty
four hours, I feel like, oh my god, this is
what it feels like just to be me, with my

(53:23):
own thoughts and my own agenda and my own schedule.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
Totally. It's a but we just turned forty and we
were like, oh, Alle's really expensive. So we're like, oh,
we probably shouldn't travel. And my beautiful dad was like,
let me, let me. He's like, do you fly. So
I'm gonna do all the calm. Oh my god. So
we went to one of our dream locations, Jackson Hole
in Wyoming. So we spent the whole time doing like
Yellowstone National Park, granted, like driving with bison on the

(53:50):
side of the road and like and just immersing yourself
in a different world because it's very old western cowboy town.
And we came back and we're like, it almost did
this thing where just like our life priorities were so
much clearer for spending four days in natures, Like it's
like it's like gets rid of the clouds in your

(54:11):
like there's the fog in your brain has gone. You're
just like, yeah, oh my goodness, Okay, so Alai is
this this is that? This is like and you just
feel really clear and like hearing you talk because we
don't have kiddos and I'm like, we have frozen embryos,
but we are so like we love travel too, and
I'm like we got to sneak as much, like just

(54:31):
as much travel because I just think travel brings freedom.
I don't know. I know it can be free all
the time, but there's something about like having that excitement
in your life that like things are like anything as possible,
and that's what it is.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
It feels like anything is possible in America.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah, you feel that here.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
I landed here and I'm like walking down. I love
the accent in West Hollywood and people are like smiling
at me. It was obviously like I don't know some
I guess it was just a sunny Saturday, but it
was like heaving. Everyone was out. There were drag queens
everywhere like hey girl, how are you. You're looking good girl.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
I'm like, hi, thanks, you know what? You what I
love about Americans and having work for American companies now
Americans are direct, yes, so whereas an Australians kind of
sit back, we'll sit back a bit and kind of
like wait to see how the cards fall, which I
also love because an Australian is quite grounded and chill.
I find it. Aussie's like we're at an Australian's birthday

(55:32):
party last night and everyone's just like ah yeah, like
there's no fluff. But an American and be like, oh
my God, I love that skirt. Where is it from?
Oh yeah, your hair? Like you'll but there is like
a really nice directness here and a confidence. It's really fascinating.

(55:54):
Like working with creatives too, You'll notice like people will
be like, well you kind of like you pitched yourself
this pod. That's like an American thing to do.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
Yeah, I'm trying to be a bit better. I'm trying
to be a bit more American because they are. They
pitch themselves to me all the time, and I'm like,
why aren't I doing that?

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Will be doing that? I don't know if it's poppies,
we don't. We don't kind of sell ourselves. Americans know
how to. I mean all these shows you're talking about
people like, I'm sure they've all got off the back
of these TV shows. They've probably got a fragrance line,
an active wear line, like they've.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
Got all this Quilla is the big one.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Yeah, their own pods yea, you know, like all this
amazing success off the back of it. And I do
love that feeling of your opportunity here and directness. And
I think if an ossie comes here and like takes
on those attributes, you can go back home and have
a really great I'm like, I can always pick an

(56:50):
Aussie that's lived in an America now, yeah, because they've
just got this, like it's like a quiet confidence where
they they've got the they've learned how to like connect quickly.
I think that's what Americans is.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
Yeah, So question for you, then, how do you manage
your energy? Because I feel like it would cost me
a lot of energy to be in that American way
on all the time. You know, it feels like when
even if you are not putting it out there, to
be around people who are so direct and big and

(57:27):
out there, like I feel like it would become a
bit taxing, Like how do you manage your energy?

Speaker 1 (57:33):
So you won't believe this, But I am one hundred
percent introvert, Like I am an introvert.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
Yeah, now going introvert, same as you the same.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
So like this is comfortable for me, a vulnerable chat
with one person, yeah, sitting on a couch. But put
me in a room of forty people if I'm not
there to work like speaking or whatever. It is like
sweaty palms yea. But the poet obviously feels so. And
I've had sykes on the pod and writers that write

(58:03):
about introverts, and like, I had this beautiful author come
on the pod and she had a whole book about
introverts and I sat with her. I was like, oh
my god, I'm so excited. I'm an introvert. She was
like what. Like, She's like, you can mask so well,
and I obviously I am not aware. But here's my
here's my thing for America and for anyone listening that
like their career calls for bigger energy, but they know

(58:26):
inside they need like alone time and going to the
movies that is because it's so quiet and intimate and
it's watching people live their passion, which is a really
important like hallmark for me. But if I can go
to the movies it's dark, it's super I'll go with
some I'll usually go with a bud, but one person,

(58:47):
and I've got like this, I've got to work right
up until for today it's a Sunday in America, I've
got a pod dropping and then I go straight to
the movies. Wow. So that's like giving back thing to me.
So quiet stuff I have to do, or I'll play
a day with Matt's the opposite. He's an extrovert. He's
like to the point that when I picked you up downstairs,
I was like, we're at a time limit. Boo, I

(59:07):
know you love to chat. And he's like, I'll take
the girl straight away. I'll take the dog, don't worry.
But he was like controlled, like he was like trying
to show you the tricks the dog could do. Yes,
So we're the opposite. And sometimes I'll have to say
to Matt, I need full blown alone time and he's like,
I got it. He's like, you stay here today and
he'll like work upstairs, or like I have to like

(59:28):
and I call it like lone wolf time, like I
have to re calibrate that way, which is like classic
introvert vibes, but also yeah, seeing passion, or like I've
got my favorite playlist I have to listen to with
noise canceling headphones. I can't hear anything else. I'll sit
and just listen while I'm working or writing or journaling
or planning. Yes, but it has to be like I

(59:51):
can't have outside that will make me uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
Yeah, that makes sense, complete sense. And you know, I
think you and I have done a good job of
picking partners that get it and they can soothe the anxiety.
They don't feed into it. And like Chris is the same.
He will take the boys out even if he's had them,
Like I guarantee you I'll get back from this trip
where he's had them on his own for eleven days

(01:00:17):
or whatever it is, and he'll still be like, come on,
I'll take the boys out so you can. You know,
he just always knows that I just need some time
without the noise, because that's the other thing. And if
you do think about taking those little embryos off ice,
that is the thing that has been the most overwhelming
for me as an outgoing introvert. So I need that

(01:00:41):
time alone and you don't get it. It's noise, and
it's them trying to reabsorb back into your body at
any given time, and just three different noise levels that
they don't take turns in needing and wanting. It's all
at the same time. It's a cacophony sound and energy
and and it's amazing, but it's also like absolutely draining

(01:01:05):
for me as someone who needs time alone.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
There's also there have to be studies on sound and
the effect. Likes that because Matt's are composed us, so
he composes next to me while I work and he
can compose. He does a lot with headphones because I
can't do the sound. Even though I love watching him
do his passion. I'm like, if I can hear that
and sirens outside, and I'm like, oh my god, I

(01:01:29):
can't can't think, yeah, which is why I always have
to have like, oh, oh my goodness. I love psychoanalyzing
ourselves and so I could talk to you all day long.
My last question for you is, though, for someone listening
to this, that if they can do one thing today
just to support their mental health or feel like a
more vital version of themselves, what's something that they could

(01:01:49):
implement today.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
I think it's that old kind of cliche of just
trying to find one thing to do each day so
that you feel like you're moving forward. And if that
one thing is I'm going to go for a walk
today and that's what you're committing to, then that's all
you need to do. Or I've got a list of
five thousand emails that I need to attend to and

(01:02:13):
I just can't even Oh my god, where do I
even start? Just answer one email, you know, Or you've
got a list of endless things, where do I start,
and you've got that task paralysis that we talked about.
Choose one thing and then just that tiny little forward
motion is what will help you feel like okay, like
it's not so pressured and overwhelming and I can't cope,

(01:02:37):
like I've done one thing today. Yeah, And it doesn't
have to it doesn't have to be world changing. Just
the smallest step forward helps you take the next one
and the next one exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Oh, I love that. I can't believe it's taken us
a couple of years to get you on the pod.
I know, well, I guess living on the other side
of the world makes a hard name for real life.
But yes, it's been a joy to have you on
on to the listener. Plot twist is available. I saw
it on you. You can get on your website as well,
can't you yep, and keep listening to your pod because
your POD's unreal. So I'll put a link to your

(01:03:10):
pod in the show note thank you the Curious Life podcast.
That's it and can't see can't wait to see what's
next for you. Let me know how the Priscilla stuff.
I will, I will Elvis. I'm going to show you
my Elvis photos after this amazing, Thanks for having me,
thanks for jumping on. That's a wrap on another episode

(01:03:32):
of Fearlessly Failing. As always, thank you to our guests,
and let's continue the conversation on Instagram. I'm at Yamo Lollaberry.
This potty my work for podcast is available on all
streaming platforms. I'd love it if you could subscribe, rape
and comment and of course spread the love.