April 29, 2024 • 24 mins
From dairying in Otago to the Chief Executive of Pouarua Farms, an iwi-owned 2200-hectare operation in the Hauraki Plains, Jenna Smith, the cover of our 2024 Maize Silage catalogue, joins Wade and Brent Bishop, Upper North Island Regional Manager, to recount her remarkable journey.
This episode covers the details of farming on peatlands into the larger narrative of ecological stewardship. The evolution of a 2200-hectare farm as it shifts from traditional animal husbandry to pioneering dairy practices, beef finishing, blueberry orchards and maize silage and grain operations. Jenna discusses the proactive strategies for peatland management and the exciting research initiatives on deck.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
G'day and welcome to Feed for Thought, a regular
podcast from Pioneer coveringeverything from farm systems to
crops and products and much,much more.
All right, welcome to thisepisode of Feed for Thought
podcast.
Really excited about thisepisode, we've got Brent Bishop,
regional leader for theNorthern North Island, joining
me today, so sitting in MattDaly's spot.
(00:25):
It's going to be a bit of a newexperience, dear.
Bish Big boots to fill mateReally really happy to have you
along and we've got Jenna Smithwho was on the cover of our
catalogue for 2024.
And really excited to get intothe story behind what's in the
catalogue.
But before I do that and beforeI introduce you properly, jenna
(00:46):
, I just want to let ourlisteners know whereabouts we
are in the country and where thefarm's located.
So we're sitting here on PouaRua Farms in the Hauruiki Pains
and sort of what's that centralwe'd call it central Waikato
Basin, maybe northern Waikato.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Basin, I think northern Waikato.
I think the central Waikatopeople might be up there.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yeah, that's right, Absolutely.
So really excited to have youalong, Jenna.
You've got a great story totell outside of the business
here and I'm going to let youtell a little bit of that.
So give us a little bit of yourbackground and kind of how you
ended up here with Poua Rua.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Sure.
So I started my farming careeras a teenager went dairying out
of school.
That lasted not that long,because I managed to roll a quad
bike on top of myself onemorning while getting the cows
in and broke my femur anddislocated my hip and had some
other gnarly injuries.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Welcome to dairy farming.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
It was a short-lived career and while I worked that
out that my body wasn't quitecapable of doing all the things
that I thought it was, I'd movedon and started a position with
Landcorp now PAMU, and sort ofgot exposed to a bit of the
agribusiness side of dairyingand through that role progressed
(02:07):
into various farm tech andbusiness analyst roles, had a
world of training available tome and on the job learning as
well, so I managed to progressthrough, I guess, skills and
roles with Landcorp.
In that time I met a dairyfarmer and we got married.
We moved down to Otago to startour share milking career and I
(02:31):
picked up a role with AquilaCapital Farms, which were at
that time converting a lot ofland in Southland to dairying,
and partnered with my farm inthat and so held those roles for
many years.
Yeah, moved across Southland,otago, canterbury, my husband
(02:54):
and I grew our share milkingbusiness up to about 3,000 cows,
chucked a couple of kids inthere along the way and
inevitably just ended up doingnothing really well, I guess.
Essentially we weren't givinganything 100% and, most of all,
the family weren't getting 100%.
So we had a bit of arealignment in terms of what
success looked like for us, andthat was making sure that the
kids had one of us pretty welldedicated to them.
(03:15):
They've got some healthdifficulties that mean that they
need a little bit more care, soat that time this role was
advertised.
We were spending a bit of timeup in Auckland for their
healthcare needs anyway, so wedecided it would all sort of fit
into place, so moved up here.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
So, just going back a little bit, how did you go down
the agriculture?
Because you were a little bitof a split ag city kind of.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I think it's been described as like this hybrid.
How did you end up being drawninto the ag sector in the first
place?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
I grew up on a farm but I schooled in a city.
So we were close enough to thecity limits that I had the
opportunity to bus in to thecity.
So yeah, the city life was notreally that fascinating to me.
Yeah, I did try an office joband I think one day I went in
and I dragged a ram out of agully that morning and I still
(04:10):
kind of stunk like sheep shitwhen I went in.
And it was about then whenpeople made comment about it.
I was like maybe it's not forme.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
It's not really perfume, no, it's a scent.
It's a scent of rural.
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
And so I kind of preferred where somebody
wouldn't point that out to me.
So my parents suggesteddairying at that time.
I'm not from a dairyingbackground but dairying was
starting to boom in the late 90s, early 2000s and then around
Otago and Southland.
So they said there's probably apretty good trajectory if you
hit that right.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, sounds like you did Absolutely.
Yeah, certainly like you did,absolutely yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Certainly, the roadmap changed all the way
through there, because I didn'tstart out thinking this was the
destination I'd get to.
But yeah, you just take thechances that are presented and
yeah, each choice leads to thenext chance.
And here I am.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, nice, nice.
Do you want to just tell us alittle bit about your role here
with Pāaroa, because that'sevolved a little bit in the time
that you've been here, and justwhere that sort of sits now?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yeah, Pāaroa is a Māori-owned entity, so born out
of a very long treaty settlementprocess.
So the land that we have herewas owned by the various iwi
owners in the 1800s.
It was acquired by the Crownunder the Drain Eject and was
(05:41):
essentially lost, were lookingat a sale, and the Hauraki iwi
were progressing through theirtreaty settlements and
negotiated with the Crown topurchase these farms back.
So it's a little bit of atouchy subject in that the land
was once theirs, taken from themand they had to buy it back.
It gives a whole new purpose, Iguess, to when we think about
(06:05):
what we do with it going forward.
So now that it's been purchasedit's been back for 10 years
it's really looking pretty farout into the future as to what
we're going to do with thisasset to make sure it stays in
Hauraki iwi hands and that itdoesn't get degenerated, I guess
, or degraded any further thanit possibly has been.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, yeah.
So maybe because there'll bepeople listening and won't
understand the kind of theproperty and the resource that
you've got here.
So it is on peat and that alsoleads into your Nuffield
scholarship, which is a wholeother topic in itself.
But do you want to just touchon the fact that it is peat and
the sensitivity of that?
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Yeah, so the initial block is 2200 hectares of
varying depths of peat.
So we have some peatlands thatare 15 metres plus of peat and
then we have some areas that aresort of 500 mils of peat down
to marine clay.
So it's a really variableplatform.
It's also various states ofmaturity.
(07:07):
So Lands and Surveys and thenLandcorp broke blocks in over
time, started out in areas as asheep and beef station, then
moved to growing squash and thenmoved on to dairying and the
last of the dairy farms wasn'tactually broken in from scrub
until the mid 2000s.
So really raw, very lownutrient based peat soils.
(07:31):
And so the fun of peat soils isthat it throws all of your r&m
into disarray.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Your fences are on the piss your power poles are on
the lean, it seems to disappearin front of your eyes.
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yeah, it's high maintenance costs, but it's also
pretty hard to grow anythinggood, and so, yeah, we've really
assessed what we've got interms of a soil base over the
last couple of years and makingsome decisions into the future
over what the best and highestuse of this land is, because
(08:03):
it's pretty touchy.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, I guess that segues into perhaps an
explanation around what Poriruais doing with the different
types of enterprise, the mix,yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
So when we purchased it was eight dairy farms and
then in the first five yearsunder the 50-50 share milking
agreement with Landcorp, thatgrew to nine dairy farms.
We've now got seven dairy farmsoperating.
We've destocked quiteconsiderably and moved land uses
away from dairying where we'vefelt that that was the best
(08:34):
decision to make for the land.
So we now have the sevendairies milking around about
4,200 cows.
We have a commercial blueberryorchard which has just had its
first harvest, which is veryexciting.
It was planned to harvest lastyear but the cyclone harvested
it for us.
We've got a dairy beefoperation.
(08:55):
So we have sort of about 200hectares there.
That is.
Sole purpose is to raise dairybeef, which lowers our bobby
footprint from the dairy farms.
And then we've got a maizegrain block which has been
growing over the years and isnow just on 300 hectares and
going pretty well so far.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Good, so good Good.
You see, fishers eyes light up.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
He hears maize grain hectares and going pretty well,
so far Good, so good Good.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
You see Fish's eyes light up.
He hears maize grain.
You're actually lucky youhaven't got the maize grain guy
here, because he'd be doingbackflips at this point.
He would be.
Fish is pretty excited.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah, I think I asked somebody one day like how many
hectares do I need of grain tobe the biggest?
Speaker 1 (09:35):
It must be getting up there.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
It would be.
It would be getting up there, Imean probably in one block, but
yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
So how did you settle on and I'm saying settled,
you're probably not, this wouldbe an evolution of your system
and enterprise but have you kindof made the decisions around
where dairy sits, whereblueberries sit, where grain
fits?
You know that mix.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
So our ultimate vision is to create food from
the platform.
So we're not necessarily intocreating stock food, we want to
create healthy food for people.
It's also quite important forour shareholders to have
visibility over where that foodis headed.
So I guess with our dairyingoperations we've really tried to
(10:17):
concentrate on ouropportunities into a domestic
market and so hence thepartnership with Lewis Road
Creamery.
We're now their sole suppliersof white milk we provide through
to Green Valley Dairy, whichalso goes into a few other
domestic milk sources, and thenour other dairy farms supply
Sinley, and they are allaccredited under the Lead with
(10:39):
Pride program to make sure thatwe're, I guess, independently
assessed that where we are doingdairying we're doing it really
well and to the best of ourability and that gives our
shareholders, I guess, comfortto know that.
You know, because sometimesdairying can be a little bit
tension-creating in terms ofWell, it's a big target Yep, it
is.
So it dairying can be a littlebit tension creating in terms of
Well it's a big target?
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yep, it is, so it's in the limelight a lot.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Justifiably so.
So adding some transparency tothat is really important for us.
And then we had these dairyfarms that, in all honesty, just
probably should never have beendairy farms.
They were converted in thedairying boom where it's like
any land that could put a cow onlike let's give it a crack.
So once we took over theoperational ownership of the
platform, it was reallyassessing the land's
(11:23):
capabilities.
So, where we had farms that werejust incredibly raw, immature
peat that had, I mean, next tono fertility we're talking Olsen
peas of two or three pHs, of4.6, 4.7.
You go well, it's pretty hardto grow a blade of grass on that
.
So what are the other optionsthat we have?
And then it was just aboutmaking some assessments on, I
(11:46):
guess, potential uses.
So blueberries seemed like anatural fit because it's a
reasonably large blueberryorchard near us, so we figured
they could grow here.
So, partnering with the rightpeople, I guess, there to get
some expertise in.
And, yeah, established thatblueberry orchard a couple of
years ago and so far so good.
Yeah, That'll expand in anothercouple of years out to a double
(12:09):
operation.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
So yeah, and with the grain part.
You know we had to just settleon that.
What drove you down that path?
Speaker 3 (12:14):
So we've always been able to grow really good maize
here.
So when I worked for Landcorpactually, I spent a bit of time
here as well.
So I've got some history andback in the sort of early 2000s
and it's one thing this block ofland has always done well.
If you feed the maize, lookafter it, treat it right up
front.
It's always grown pretty goodlike 24 plus ton crops without
(12:38):
too much hassle.
So I knew maize was a goodoption and really the maize
grain was born out of ourprolonged summer droughts.
So we were heading into autumn,if not winter, with droughts
and I had a real unease withhaving fallow paddocks because
it was you know, the maize hadcome off.
(12:58):
It was too dry to put it backinto pasture and I was looking
for a bridge for that, and sograin fit that.
So we started off small, tried40 hectares to have a crack at
it.
We yielded 15 tonne.
Seems like we can do thisPretty good, not a bad first up
crack.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
So to make sure it wasn't a fluke, we went for
about 150 hectares.
Oh, seems like we can do this.
Yeah, pretty good.
The next year we had a first upcrack, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
So to make sure it wasn't a fluke, we went for
about 150 hectares.
That's the way you just jump,that's the way and averaged, I
think, 13.8 tonne on that one,and that was through the
incredibly wet cyclone yearCyclone.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
So decided that probably wasn't too bad either.
So this year we've pushed thatout again to just over 300
hectares of grain and we shutdown another dairy farm to do
that and again it was a verypoor performing dairy farm in
terms of pasture, persistenceand ability.
So maize seemed sensible.
(13:54):
We're now working on how we domaize better, and that's looking
at things like strip tillage,jury drilling and how we could,
because every time we cultivatethis land it does pose another
issue.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So we need to be pretty careful about that.
Yeah, and you've got somepretty interesting little
projects going on.
I call it the sniffer, butyou've got a much more technical
name for it.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Eddie Coherence meter .
Yeah, name for Edie CoherenceMeter.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, I just call it the carbon sniffer, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Yeah, we work pretty closely with Manaaki Whenua
University of Waikato andWaikato Regional Council to make
sure that we're creating a databank for, I guess, stopping the
degradation of peatlands.
So it is a finite resource.
Once it shrinks away to nothingor subsides to nothing, it is
gone.
And our, once it shrinks awayto nothing or subsides to
nothing.
It is gone.
And our peatlands in NewZealand are immature as a whole.
(14:43):
In some areas they are a littlebit more established and on
higher grounds, but ourpeatlands here on the Hauraki
Plains are almost at sea leveland we've got peat subsidence
occurring at a great rate ofknots and sea level rising, so
it only spells mangroves to me.
So what can we do, I guess, toslow that down and make sure
(15:04):
that we're yeah, I guess aidingit?
So the first point is tounderstand what we're doing and
what we've got.
So, having those trials inplace where our different land
uses, we're measuring the peatsubsidence occurrence on each of
those different land uses andthen on land that we've restored
or let regenerate to wetland,it's understanding what the
carbon sequestrationopportunities are there.
(15:26):
Pretty excited to see where thatgoes and what that gives us,
and then, as part of my Nuffieldscholarship, that's the area
that I'm delving into is, Iguess, the adaptive pathways for
peatlands in New Zealand,because it's 1% of our soils in
New Zealand but it's like nearly14% of our soil carbon
emissions.
So some pretty low-hangingfruit if we can make some smart
(15:48):
decisions.
But of course there's a wholeheap of barriers in the way of
that, and the biggest one beingmost peatlands are under private
land ownership.
So what are the opportunitiesfor an economical, I guess,
realisation?
So heading over to Europe tofind out a little bit more about
that, because they're makingsome pretty big headways.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
So with what you're picking up at the moment.
So you're learning a bit ofstuff here in your own backyard
and you're learning a lot ofstuff offshore, or you will be
learning a lot of stuff offshore, how do you see kind of the
future enterprise mix of Pororo?
Is it too early to say yet interms of you know from what you
(16:28):
know already, kind of where youmight be heading in the future,
or is it?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Yeah, I think there's probably short-term,
medium-term and long-term stepsto this.
So our short-term thinking isto really strengthen our
resilience on our dairyingproperties.
So that is really identifyingwhere dairying's not the best
and highest land use, and we'veprobably got almost there now.
I'd say there's probablyanother 400 hectares that we
(16:56):
will address over the comingyears and then it's assessing
what that next land use is.
So we don't think we're thereyet.
Blueberries is great.
It's a fantastic opportunity.
We have some pressures in termsof field-grown blueberries here
because salinity is becoming anissue with its sea level rise.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
We'll have to throw one more complication in there.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yep, yep.
And then, like I mentionedbefore, building infrastructure
on peat is a nightmare.
So, yeah, what does that looklike if we're then raising our
blueberry orchards into pottedor tunnelled?
And how do we make sure ourcanopies stand the test of time?
So that'll be interesting, butit is certainly something that
(17:40):
will keep growing.
Some things that we're lookingat at the moment I guess still
in their really early stageswould be chickens, so free range
chickens would possibly bekinder land use.
And then what's the opportunityto put solar in a combined
effort with that Again,infrastructure on pizza we still
have to look at like a floatingsolar opportunity, but that's
(18:03):
being done overseas.
So hence I'm heading that way.
So I think what we'll do?
We'll end up strengthening ourdairying operation.
I don't see us going away fromdairying, because where we can
do it, we should continue to doit well.
And I don't see us moving awayfrom maize because we know we
can grow that well.
So it's just again fine-tuningthe resilience of that maize
(18:25):
operation.
And then, yeah, these sort offringe or niche type things that
go around the outside, I thinkwill be the ones that continue
to evolve, because they are onthe most sensitive piece of land
.
Yeah, they're on the margins alittle bit, yeah, but like
you're talking and this is thebeauty of running an iwi
organisation is your businessplans are 100 plus years.
You're not thinking five noyou're not thinking about
(18:49):
short-term returns, you'rethinking about long-term returns
.
So yeah, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yeah, gina, I'm interested we've discussed
before the challenges with thelabour force and maybe that's
part of your thinking with thediversity of your business, so
interested in your thoughtsthere.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah, it is in every industry sector.
I don't think it's anagricultural alone problem, but
we have the same struggles aseverybody else.
So I guess, naively at thestart we looked to technology as
an early adopter and thoughtthat that might save some of our
hassles.
To be blunt, it probably justcreated different ones and maybe
(19:28):
more.
But now we've sort of got tothat point where it's
reimagining our farm systems tomatch what we see as an
availability and labour source,so creating, I guess, reasonably
diverse farm systems, teams tohave areas of specialisation.
So if milk harvesting is the oneand only thing that you're
coming to do here and you'requite happy with that, well then
(19:50):
we'll allow that, because noteverybody wants to be a farm
owner or not everyone wants toprogress to farm manager.
Some people are just quitehappy to come, do a job, have a
house, go home.
Why force them to be anythingelse?
So it's allowing thosedifferent mindsets to all exist
where we can, and technology, Iguess, aids the skill set gap
(20:11):
rather than the labour shortagefor us.
So then we're just attractingdifferent people, reimagining
what the typical farm managermight look like.
Yeah, might actually just be areally good people leader,
business leader and have thesmarts around compliance and
regulation, but not so much thecows and grass.
So then we put the cows andgrass person in there to aid him
(20:32):
.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, it's a really good modern look at that.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
So it's not using the tech to say the tech's the
solution to a labour shortage.
It's saying that the tech is anenabler to kind of allow people
to do the roles that they wantto do within the business and
there might be some new roles,sort of created out of the back
of that tech.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Totally, and yeah, it's the enabler to, I guess,
adopt a different system as well.
So yeah just trying toreimagine and do things a little
bit differently, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Awesome, nice Look.
Before we wrap up and we loveto sort of finish on a positive
note and before I sort of askBush for a couple of closing
comments.
But what gives you optimismabout the future of the industry
?
And probably for you it's alittle bit broader.
Typically we're interviewingdairy farmers but you've got a
real mixed enterprise.
(21:22):
But in the ag sector, whatgives you real optimism for the
future.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
I think we're probably at a moment of
inflection at the moment, andI'm excited to see where that
goes, and I think there's enoughpeople that have almost an
appetite of dissatisfaction withthe status quo, and so I think
we're going to see reallypositive change that really
cements New Zealand's place inthe world markets and, having
(21:50):
done a little bit of travelrecently, I'm pretty sure New
Zealand knows that we're not thevolume player.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
And I think we are getting to the realisation that
we might not be the value playereither, and so then it really
comes down to that values piece,and how do we capitalise off
that and cement relationships?
That makes New Zealand theproduct producer of choice.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
And I think there's enough people sort of getting
there now yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
So that's exciting and yeah, I guess my two cents
with that.
On the back of that, you know Isee the kind of the next
generation of farmers comingthrough and you know they're
adapting to some of these newchallenges and they can see a
pathway through and see someopportunity on the horizon and
they're able to adapt to some ofthose challenges that we're
(22:38):
faced at the moment.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
And people are just willing to give shit a try now
as well, like there's just alittle bit of ingenuity coming
back into the frame.
Have we got past a bit of thetall poppy thing, do you?
Speaker 1 (22:46):
think Maybe there's a little bit of ingenuity coming
back into the frame.
Have we got past a bit of thetall?
Speaker 3 (22:48):
poppy thing, do you think?
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Maybe there's a little bit of that still.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
There's still a lot of that.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah, we like to think you know people giving
stuff a crack is what's beenexciting about the industry
today Totally Hopefully itcontinues.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Otherwise we'd all still be sitting on a stool
milking cows, right yeah?
Speaker 1 (23:05):
that's right, and you guys are doing some really neat
stuff here, you know, outsideof what would sort of a New
Zealand traditional dairy.
You know you're exploring somenew avenues, which is really
cool, it's exciting stuff.
Yeah, so Bish any finalcomments from you or things that
have stood out just before wewrap up.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, just picked up on a couple of things from Gina
and, obviously, despite someheadwinds out there for the
sector, certainly thesustainable future through
planning and communication Ithink you've covered off those
two things and improving yourfinancial resilience it's
obviously a pretty importantpart of every business, let
alone the ag business andthinking outside the box as far
(23:43):
as retaining talent and staffing.
So, yeah, appreciate you havingus, jenna, it's very, very
interesting.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, no, look.
Thanks, jenna.
Wish you well on the rest ofthe Nuffield.
Yeah, really exciting topic.
Love the fact that you're doinga bit of research here in the
backyard always a little bitpassionate about some homegrown
research, so it's nice to seethat going on.
So thanks again for your time.
It's been a great opportunityfor us to have a chat To all the
(24:11):
listeners.
If you've enjoyed the listentoday, like and subscribe
through your preferred platformand feel free to join in on our
next episode.
Thanks very much, cheers.
G'day and welcome to Feed for Thought, a regular
podcast from Pioneer coveringeverything from farm systems to
crops and products and much,much more.
All right, welcome to thisepisode of Feed for Thought
podcast.
Really excited about thisepisode, we've got Brent Bishop,
regional leader for theNorthern North Island, joining
me today, so sitting in MattDaly's spot.
(00:25):
It's going to be a bit of a newexperience, dear.
Bish Big boots to fill mateReally really happy to have you
along and we've got Jenna Smithwho was on the cover of our
catalogue for 2024.
And really excited to get intothe story behind what's in the
catalogue.
But before I do that and beforeI introduce you properly, jenna
(00:46):
, I just want to let ourlisteners know whereabouts we
are in the country and where thefarm's located.
So we're sitting here on PouaRua Farms in the Hauruiki Pains
and sort of what's that centralwe'd call it central Waikato
Basin, maybe northern Waikato.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Basin, I think northern Waikato.
I think the central Waikatopeople might be up there.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yeah, that's right, Absolutely.
So really excited to have youalong, Jenna.
You've got a great story totell outside of the business
here and I'm going to let youtell a little bit of that.
So give us a little bit of yourbackground and kind of how you
ended up here with Poua Rua.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Sure.
So I started my farming careeras a teenager went dairying out
of school.
That lasted not that long,because I managed to roll a quad
bike on top of myself onemorning while getting the cows
in and broke my femur anddislocated my hip and had some
other gnarly injuries.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Welcome to dairy farming.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
It was a short-lived career and while I worked that
out that my body wasn't quitecapable of doing all the things
that I thought it was, I'd movedon and started a position with
Landcorp now PAMU, and sort ofgot exposed to a bit of the
agribusiness side of dairyingand through that role progressed
(02:07):
into various farm tech andbusiness analyst roles, had a
world of training available tome and on the job learning as
well, so I managed to progressthrough, I guess, skills and
roles with Landcorp.
In that time I met a dairyfarmer and we got married.
We moved down to Otago to startour share milking career and I
(02:31):
picked up a role with AquilaCapital Farms, which were at
that time converting a lot ofland in Southland to dairying,
and partnered with my farm inthat and so held those roles for
many years.
Yeah, moved across Southland,otago, canterbury, my husband
(02:54):
and I grew our share milkingbusiness up to about 3,000 cows,
chucked a couple of kids inthere along the way and
inevitably just ended up doingnothing really well, I guess.
Essentially we weren't givinganything 100% and, most of all,
the family weren't getting 100%.
So we had a bit of arealignment in terms of what
success looked like for us, andthat was making sure that the
kids had one of us pretty welldedicated to them.
(03:15):
They've got some healthdifficulties that mean that they
need a little bit more care, soat that time this role was
advertised.
We were spending a bit of timeup in Auckland for their
healthcare needs anyway, so wedecided it would all sort of fit
into place, so moved up here.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
So, just going back a little bit, how did you go down
the agriculture?
Because you were a little bitof a split ag city kind of.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I think it's been described as like this hybrid.
How did you end up being drawninto the ag sector in the first
place?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
I grew up on a farm but I schooled in a city.
So we were close enough to thecity limits that I had the
opportunity to bus in to thecity.
So yeah, the city life was notreally that fascinating to me.
Yeah, I did try an office joband I think one day I went in
and I dragged a ram out of agully that morning and I still
(04:10):
kind of stunk like sheep shitwhen I went in.
And it was about then whenpeople made comment about it.
I was like maybe it's not forme.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
It's not really perfume, no, it's a scent.
It's a scent of rural.
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
And so I kind of preferred where somebody
wouldn't point that out to me.
So my parents suggesteddairying at that time.
I'm not from a dairyingbackground but dairying was
starting to boom in the late 90s, early 2000s and then around
Otago and Southland.
So they said there's probably apretty good trajectory if you
hit that right.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, sounds like you did Absolutely.
Yeah, certainly like you did,absolutely yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Certainly, the roadmap changed all the way
through there, because I didn'tstart out thinking this was the
destination I'd get to.
But yeah, you just take thechances that are presented and
yeah, each choice leads to thenext chance.
And here I am.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, nice, nice.
Do you want to just tell us alittle bit about your role here
with Pāaroa, because that'sevolved a little bit in the time
that you've been here, and justwhere that sort of sits now?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yeah, Pāaroa is a Māori-owned entity, so born out
of a very long treaty settlementprocess.
So the land that we have herewas owned by the various iwi
owners in the 1800s.
It was acquired by the Crownunder the Drain Eject and was
(05:41):
essentially lost, were lookingat a sale, and the Hauraki iwi
were progressing through theirtreaty settlements and
negotiated with the Crown topurchase these farms back.
So it's a little bit of atouchy subject in that the land
was once theirs, taken from themand they had to buy it back.
It gives a whole new purpose, Iguess, to when we think about
(06:05):
what we do with it going forward.
So now that it's been purchasedit's been back for 10 years
it's really looking pretty farout into the future as to what
we're going to do with thisasset to make sure it stays in
Hauraki iwi hands and that itdoesn't get degenerated, I guess
, or degraded any further thanit possibly has been.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, yeah.
So maybe because there'll bepeople listening and won't
understand the kind of theproperty and the resource that
you've got here.
So it is on peat and that alsoleads into your Nuffield
scholarship, which is a wholeother topic in itself.
But do you want to just touchon the fact that it is peat and
the sensitivity of that?
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Yeah, so the initial block is 2200 hectares of
varying depths of peat.
So we have some peatlands thatare 15 metres plus of peat and
then we have some areas that aresort of 500 mils of peat down
to marine clay.
So it's a really variableplatform.
It's also various states ofmaturity.
(07:07):
So Lands and Surveys and thenLandcorp broke blocks in over
time, started out in areas as asheep and beef station, then
moved to growing squash and thenmoved on to dairying and the
last of the dairy farms wasn'tactually broken in from scrub
until the mid 2000s.
So really raw, very lownutrient based peat soils.
(07:31):
And so the fun of peat soils isthat it throws all of your r&m
into disarray.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Your fences are on the piss your power poles are on
the lean, it seems to disappearin front of your eyes.
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yeah, it's high maintenance costs, but it's also
pretty hard to grow anythinggood, and so, yeah, we've really
assessed what we've got interms of a soil base over the
last couple of years and makingsome decisions into the future
over what the best and highestuse of this land is, because
(08:03):
it's pretty touchy.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, I guess that segues into perhaps an
explanation around what Poriruais doing with the different
types of enterprise, the mix,yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
So when we purchased it was eight dairy farms and
then in the first five yearsunder the 50-50 share milking
agreement with Landcorp, thatgrew to nine dairy farms.
We've now got seven dairy farmsoperating.
We've destocked quiteconsiderably and moved land uses
away from dairying where we'vefelt that that was the best
(08:34):
decision to make for the land.
So we now have the sevendairies milking around about
4,200 cows.
We have a commercial blueberryorchard which has just had its
first harvest, which is veryexciting.
It was planned to harvest lastyear but the cyclone harvested
it for us.
We've got a dairy beefoperation.
(08:55):
So we have sort of about 200hectares there.
That is.
Sole purpose is to raise dairybeef, which lowers our bobby
footprint from the dairy farms.
And then we've got a maizegrain block which has been
growing over the years and isnow just on 300 hectares and
going pretty well so far.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Good, so good Good.
You see, fishers eyes light up.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
He hears maize grain hectares and going pretty well,
so far Good, so good Good.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
You see Fish's eyes light up.
He hears maize grain.
You're actually lucky youhaven't got the maize grain guy
here, because he'd be doingbackflips at this point.
He would be.
Fish is pretty excited.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah, I think I asked somebody one day like how many
hectares do I need of grain tobe the biggest?
Speaker 1 (09:35):
It must be getting up there.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
It would be.
It would be getting up there, Imean probably in one block, but
yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
So how did you settle on and I'm saying settled,
you're probably not, this wouldbe an evolution of your system
and enterprise but have you kindof made the decisions around
where dairy sits, whereblueberries sit, where grain
fits?
You know that mix.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
So our ultimate vision is to create food from
the platform.
So we're not necessarily intocreating stock food, we want to
create healthy food for people.
It's also quite important forour shareholders to have
visibility over where that foodis headed.
So I guess with our dairyingoperations we've really tried to
(10:17):
concentrate on ouropportunities into a domestic
market and so hence thepartnership with Lewis Road
Creamery.
We're now their sole suppliersof white milk we provide through
to Green Valley Dairy, whichalso goes into a few other
domestic milk sources, and thenour other dairy farms supply
Sinley, and they are allaccredited under the Lead with
(10:39):
Pride program to make sure thatwe're, I guess, independently
assessed that where we are doingdairying we're doing it really
well and to the best of ourability and that gives our
shareholders, I guess, comfortto know that.
You know, because sometimesdairying can be a little bit
tension-creating in terms ofWell, it's a big target Yep, it
is.
So it dairying can be a littlebit tension creating in terms of
Well it's a big target?
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yep, it is, so it's in the limelight a lot.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Justifiably so.
So adding some transparency tothat is really important for us.
And then we had these dairyfarms that, in all honesty, just
probably should never have beendairy farms.
They were converted in thedairying boom where it's like
any land that could put a cow onlike let's give it a crack.
So once we took over theoperational ownership of the
platform, it was reallyassessing the land's
(11:23):
capabilities.
So, where we had farms that werejust incredibly raw, immature
peat that had, I mean, next tono fertility we're talking Olsen
peas of two or three pHs, of4.6, 4.7.
You go well, it's pretty hardto grow a blade of grass on that
.
So what are the other optionsthat we have?
And then it was just aboutmaking some assessments on, I
(11:46):
guess, potential uses.
So blueberries seemed like anatural fit because it's a
reasonably large blueberryorchard near us, so we figured
they could grow here.
So, partnering with the rightpeople, I guess, there to get
some expertise in.
And, yeah, established thatblueberry orchard a couple of
years ago and so far so good.
Yeah, That'll expand in anothercouple of years out to a double
(12:09):
operation.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
So yeah, and with the grain part.
You know we had to just settleon that.
What drove you down that path?
Speaker 3 (12:14):
So we've always been able to grow really good maize
here.
So when I worked for Landcorpactually, I spent a bit of time
here as well.
So I've got some history andback in the sort of early 2000s
and it's one thing this block ofland has always done well.
If you feed the maize, lookafter it, treat it right up
front.
It's always grown pretty goodlike 24 plus ton crops without
(12:38):
too much hassle.
So I knew maize was a goodoption and really the maize
grain was born out of ourprolonged summer droughts.
So we were heading into autumn,if not winter, with droughts
and I had a real unease withhaving fallow paddocks because
it was you know, the maize hadcome off.
(12:58):
It was too dry to put it backinto pasture and I was looking
for a bridge for that, and sograin fit that.
So we started off small, tried40 hectares to have a crack at
it.
We yielded 15 tonne.
Seems like we can do thisPretty good, not a bad first up
crack.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
So to make sure it wasn't a fluke, we went for
about 150 hectares.
Oh, seems like we can do this.
Yeah, pretty good.
The next year we had a first upcrack, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
So to make sure it wasn't a fluke, we went for
about 150 hectares.
That's the way you just jump,that's the way and averaged, I
think, 13.8 tonne on that one,and that was through the
incredibly wet cyclone yearCyclone.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
So decided that probably wasn't too bad either.
So this year we've pushed thatout again to just over 300
hectares of grain and we shutdown another dairy farm to do
that and again it was a verypoor performing dairy farm in
terms of pasture, persistenceand ability.
So maize seemed sensible.
(13:54):
We're now working on how we domaize better, and that's looking
at things like strip tillage,jury drilling and how we could,
because every time we cultivatethis land it does pose another
issue.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So we need to be pretty careful about that.
Yeah, and you've got somepretty interesting little
projects going on.
I call it the sniffer, butyou've got a much more technical
name for it.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Eddie Coherence meter .
Yeah, name for Edie CoherenceMeter.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, I just call it the carbon sniffer, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Yeah, we work pretty closely with Manaaki Whenua
University of Waikato andWaikato Regional Council to make
sure that we're creating a databank for, I guess, stopping the
degradation of peatlands.
So it is a finite resource.
Once it shrinks away to nothingor subsides to nothing, it is
gone.
And our, once it shrinks awayto nothing or subsides to
nothing.
It is gone.
And our peatlands in NewZealand are immature as a whole.
(14:43):
In some areas they are a littlebit more established and on
higher grounds, but ourpeatlands here on the Hauraki
Plains are almost at sea leveland we've got peat subsidence
occurring at a great rate ofknots and sea level rising, so
it only spells mangroves to me.
So what can we do, I guess, toslow that down and make sure
(15:04):
that we're yeah, I guess aidingit?
So the first point is tounderstand what we're doing and
what we've got.
So, having those trials inplace where our different land
uses, we're measuring the peatsubsidence occurrence on each of
those different land uses andthen on land that we've restored
or let regenerate to wetland,it's understanding what the
carbon sequestrationopportunities are there.
(15:26):
Pretty excited to see where thatgoes and what that gives us,
and then, as part of my Nuffieldscholarship, that's the area
that I'm delving into is, Iguess, the adaptive pathways for
peatlands in New Zealand,because it's 1% of our soils in
New Zealand but it's like nearly14% of our soil carbon
emissions.
So some pretty low-hangingfruit if we can make some smart
(15:48):
decisions.
But of course there's a wholeheap of barriers in the way of
that, and the biggest one beingmost peatlands are under private
land ownership.
So what are the opportunitiesfor an economical, I guess,
realisation?
So heading over to Europe tofind out a little bit more about
that, because they're makingsome pretty big headways.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
So with what you're picking up at the moment.
So you're learning a bit ofstuff here in your own backyard
and you're learning a lot ofstuff offshore, or you will be
learning a lot of stuff offshore, how do you see kind of the
future enterprise mix of Pororo?
Is it too early to say yet interms of you know from what you
(16:28):
know already, kind of where youmight be heading in the future,
or is it?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Yeah, I think there's probably short-term,
medium-term and long-term stepsto this.
So our short-term thinking isto really strengthen our
resilience on our dairyingproperties.
So that is really identifyingwhere dairying's not the best
and highest land use, and we'veprobably got almost there now.
I'd say there's probablyanother 400 hectares that we
(16:56):
will address over the comingyears and then it's assessing
what that next land use is.
So we don't think we're thereyet.
Blueberries is great.
It's a fantastic opportunity.
We have some pressures in termsof field-grown blueberries here
because salinity is becoming anissue with its sea level rise.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
We'll have to throw one more complication in there.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yep, yep.
And then, like I mentionedbefore, building infrastructure
on peat is a nightmare.
So, yeah, what does that looklike if we're then raising our
blueberry orchards into pottedor tunnelled?
And how do we make sure ourcanopies stand the test of time?
So that'll be interesting, butit is certainly something that
(17:40):
will keep growing.
Some things that we're lookingat at the moment I guess still
in their really early stageswould be chickens, so free range
chickens would possibly bekinder land use.
And then what's the opportunityto put solar in a combined
effort with that Again,infrastructure on pizza we still
have to look at like a floatingsolar opportunity, but that's
(18:03):
being done overseas.
So hence I'm heading that way.
So I think what we'll do?
We'll end up strengthening ourdairying operation.
I don't see us going away fromdairying, because where we can
do it, we should continue to doit well.
And I don't see us moving awayfrom maize because we know we
can grow that well.
So it's just again fine-tuningthe resilience of that maize
(18:25):
operation.
And then, yeah, these sort offringe or niche type things that
go around the outside, I thinkwill be the ones that continue
to evolve, because they are onthe most sensitive piece of land
.
Yeah, they're on the margins alittle bit, yeah, but like
you're talking and this is thebeauty of running an iwi
organisation is your businessplans are 100 plus years.
You're not thinking five noyou're not thinking about
(18:49):
short-term returns, you'rethinking about long-term returns
.
So yeah, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yeah, gina, I'm interested we've discussed
before the challenges with thelabour force and maybe that's
part of your thinking with thediversity of your business, so
interested in your thoughtsthere.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah, it is in every industry sector.
I don't think it's anagricultural alone problem, but
we have the same struggles aseverybody else.
So I guess, naively at thestart we looked to technology as
an early adopter and thoughtthat that might save some of our
hassles.
To be blunt, it probably justcreated different ones and maybe
(19:28):
more.
But now we've sort of got tothat point where it's
reimagining our farm systems tomatch what we see as an
availability and labour source,so creating, I guess, reasonably
diverse farm systems, teams tohave areas of specialisation.
So if milk harvesting is the oneand only thing that you're
coming to do here and you'requite happy with that, well then
(19:50):
we'll allow that, because noteverybody wants to be a farm
owner or not everyone wants toprogress to farm manager.
Some people are just quitehappy to come, do a job, have a
house, go home.
Why force them to be anythingelse?
So it's allowing thosedifferent mindsets to all exist
where we can, and technology, Iguess, aids the skill set gap
(20:11):
rather than the labour shortagefor us.
So then we're just attractingdifferent people, reimagining
what the typical farm managermight look like.
Yeah, might actually just be areally good people leader,
business leader and have thesmarts around compliance and
regulation, but not so much thecows and grass.
So then we put the cows andgrass person in there to aid him
(20:32):
.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, it's a really good modern look at that.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
So it's not using the tech to say the tech's the
solution to a labour shortage.
It's saying that the tech is anenabler to kind of allow people
to do the roles that they wantto do within the business and
there might be some new roles,sort of created out of the back
of that tech.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Totally, and yeah, it's the enabler to, I guess,
adopt a different system as well.
So yeah just trying toreimagine and do things a little
bit differently, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Awesome, nice Look.
Before we wrap up and we loveto sort of finish on a positive
note and before I sort of askBush for a couple of closing
comments.
But what gives you optimismabout the future of the industry
?
And probably for you it's alittle bit broader.
Typically we're interviewingdairy farmers but you've got a
real mixed enterprise.
(21:22):
But in the ag sector, whatgives you real optimism for the
future.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
I think we're probably at a moment of
inflection at the moment, andI'm excited to see where that
goes, and I think there's enoughpeople that have almost an
appetite of dissatisfaction withthe status quo, and so I think
we're going to see reallypositive change that really
cements New Zealand's place inthe world markets and, having
(21:50):
done a little bit of travelrecently, I'm pretty sure New
Zealand knows that we're not thevolume player.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
And I think we are getting to the realisation that
we might not be the value playereither, and so then it really
comes down to that values piece,and how do we capitalise off
that and cement relationships?
That makes New Zealand theproduct producer of choice.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
And I think there's enough people sort of getting
there now yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
So that's exciting and yeah, I guess my two cents
with that.
On the back of that, you know Isee the kind of the next
generation of farmers comingthrough and you know they're
adapting to some of these newchallenges and they can see a
pathway through and see someopportunity on the horizon and
they're able to adapt to some ofthose challenges that we're
(22:38):
faced at the moment.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
And people are just willing to give shit a try now
as well, like there's just alittle bit of ingenuity coming
back into the frame.
Have we got past a bit of thetall poppy thing, do you?
Speaker 1 (22:46):
think Maybe there's a little bit of ingenuity coming
back into the frame.
Have we got past a bit of thetall?
Speaker 3 (22:48):
poppy thing, do you think?
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Maybe there's a little bit of that still.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
There's still a lot of that.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah, we like to think you know people giving
stuff a crack is what's beenexciting about the industry
today Totally Hopefully itcontinues.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Otherwise we'd all still be sitting on a stool
milking cows, right yeah?
Speaker 1 (23:05):
that's right, and you guys are doing some really neat
stuff here, you know, outsideof what would sort of a New
Zealand traditional dairy.
You know you're exploring somenew avenues, which is really
cool, it's exciting stuff.
Yeah, so Bish any finalcomments from you or things that
have stood out just before wewrap up.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, just picked up on a couple of things from Gina
and, obviously, despite someheadwinds out there for the
sector, certainly thesustainable future through
planning and communication Ithink you've covered off those
two things and improving yourfinancial resilience it's
obviously a pretty importantpart of every business, let
alone the ag business andthinking outside the box as far
(23:43):
as retaining talent and staffing.
So, yeah, appreciate you havingus, jenna, it's very, very
interesting.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, no, look.
Thanks, jenna.
Wish you well on the rest ofthe Nuffield.
Yeah, really exciting topic.
Love the fact that you're doinga bit of research here in the
backyard always a little bitpassionate about some homegrown
research, so it's nice to seethat going on.
So thanks again for your time.
It's been a great opportunityfor us to have a chat To all the
(24:11):
listeners.
If you've enjoyed the listentoday, like and subscribe
through your preferred platformand feel free to join in on our
next episode.
Thanks very much, cheers.
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