November 18, 2024 • 30 mins
With a rich family history in dairy farming, Michael Phillips and Andrew Evans (Bubbles) join Matt and Wade to discuss the strategy behind cows, comfort and compost at Dannevirke-based dairy farming operation, Waka Dairies.
Michael and Bubbles discuss the strategic shifts made as part of Waka Dairies' succession plan, with leadership and team culture, and infrastructure improvements at the core. The team delve into the impact of composting shelters and how this infrastructure has impacted day-to-day operations, animal health, feed efficiency, and environmental footprint. With a robust system, including effluent ponds and water storage, the farm stands resilient against local climate conditions. Tune in to hear firsthand how these changes have set new benchmarks in farm productivity.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
G'day and welcome to Feed for Thought, a regular
podcast from Pioneer coveringeverything from farm systems to
crops and products and much,much more.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Right, welcome back to Feed for Thought.
My name's Matt Daly and, asalways, my sidekick or partner
in crime, wade Bell's with meand we've been doing a bit of a
road trip through the mile patch, the Manawatu, and we've jumped
over the other side toDanneverk today, to Waka Dairies
.
So welcome, wade, matt, how areyou?
Good, mate, good, and we've gottwo pretty cool.
(00:36):
Well, I'm excited about thispodcast, wade, with these two
gentlemen from Waka Dairies.
So we've got Mike and Bubblesfrom Waka Dairies.
Well, you get to introduceyourself and your roles within
the business.
But probably a little bit ofhistory.
I've visited this farm only acouple of times in the past, but
been quite impressed by thesetup and the thought that goes
(00:57):
into what makes the system tick,and even just our little
preamble at the start has been,yeah, exciting.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I think we arrived here with a topic in mind that I
actually started thinking oh,there could be four or five
different topics at this podcastor angles that this podcast
could take.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
But anyway, welcome guys.
So, Michael, I might start withyou, Just your part in the
business and history to today.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, so I'm Michael Phillips, born and bred here
with Russell and Karen mum anddad.
So Phillips family have beenhere nearly 120 years.
I've been working here about 18years for actual employment.
Managing director is my role.
That's about it.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Short and sharp, yeah , nice.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
And Bubbles yeah, so my name's Bubbles.
I've been here 14 seasons.
I'm the operations businessmanager here at Walker Dairies
and your guys roles.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Have they changed much over the time?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I mean every day yeah , first start.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
So first season here started as farm manager, yeah,
and then it's just progressed,probably from there had
succession come in.
Yeah, really, I was underMike's dad dad when I first
started and now it's Mike, so,yeah, just seeing it succeed
through there.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
And the structure of the business has changed quite a
bit.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah, we've just recently, yeah, just been able
to move out of the board systemand just move to a simpler
managing director role, stillwith the communication link back
to the shareholders obviously.
But that's taken a lot of kindof administration weight off us
and it's kind of part of theoverall succession plan that
we've got going on as well too.
So that's been a good milestoneto hit and it's working pretty
well at the moment.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
When we started talking, before the podcast even
kicked off.
You know, one of the thingsthat stood out to me, like I
mentioned to you, is that you'vegot quite a sort of formalized
structure in a way.
You know that even the languagethat you're using, you know
it's quite a uh, it's quite aunique thing, um, uh, that we
don't sort of see in dairy.
You know, you've talked, you'vetalked about board and you've
talked about a bit aboutsuccession.
(02:57):
You know, like, what sort ofhow has that evolved or come
about?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
it's.
We've just always beenprofessional people.
We're operating a business here.
We probably take that lead frommum and dad as well too.
We have to be on top of whatwe're doing, be doing the right
things and be focused in theright areas.
If we don't, we end up comingbackwards within the business
and with what we're trying to dowith our own lives.
So that stems from there, andthen, following that, like 10,
15 years ago when mum and dadwere looking to be succeeded
(03:22):
from the business, the questionis all right, how do we do that?
And it was kind of an obviouschoice for us to start a board
structure so we could thenremove some roles and
responsibilities from thosepeople to other people, and then
we'll just carry that forwardsto basically where we are now,
which is then finishing theboard, because we're in a
different phase.
So it's gone through its circle, which has been quite good,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I probably came here because I knew of the composting
barn and it's probably whatmight be the title of this, but
there's so much more to thebusiness, the culture that you
guys have been.
We talked a little bit aboutpreviously as well.
What are some of the thingsyou're doing to get your team
ticking?
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I think probably the main thing is it sounds probably
a bit ironic, but probably justleading from the front.
I think always having standardsat the right level that we want
for our business and showingthat from the two of us is
important.
You can talk all day long anddo what you want in terms of
culture, but if you're notshowing it from yourself, not
leading that way and speakingthat way and bringing the team
along with you with what you'retrying to kind of achieve,
you're not really going to kindof go anywhere.
(04:18):
So it's about leading it in thefirst instance.
Then we Then we put afoundation of the culture, which
is around our Thursday meetings.
So we're always meeting eachweek.
It's a good thing that everyonelooks forward to.
We have some coffee, we breaksome bread, have some laughs,
then we get into a bit of work,safe stuff, what we're up to on
the farm, what some other plansare discussions with the team,
so we can all interact together.
So it's not an overbearingmeeting.
(04:40):
It's a cool meeting everyonelikes to turn up to, because
it's kind of a good time we getto reorganise and refocus where
we're at and just come back nextweek as well too.
So that's been a big part of it.
And then we follow on thingsfrom there, like celebrating
birthdays, doing Christmasdinners, doing Walker family
barbecues each year, so weconnect with the families and
the kids and take them out onmotorbikes and diggers and stuff
which they don't really get todo otherwise, and that's kind of
(05:02):
the platform, I guess, for ourculture.
So learning from the front,then connecting with everyone as
we go, and then we just layerdifferent stuff on top of that,
whether it's mental health stuffor personal stuff that people
are going through.
Or I was just saying before therosters how we structure the
employment per se.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So yeah, To paint the picture for our listeners.
You know, we're sitting here atthe know in front of a big
screen TV.
That's where a lot of that'sformalized.
You know you've got it kind oflaid out.
Yeah, these are the things wedo, this is how, this is how we
operate.
You know, we've just seen, youknow, two or three page summary
of what you do with your team,which is really phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I figured a lot of things quite quick, so if I
write stuff down then I canalways refer back to my phone
area.
I need one of these in myoffice.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yeah, we need one of these for our podcast.
We'd be a lot more professional.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Probably, and speaking of professionalism, I
probably should have got a bitmore about the actual system.
I'm always remiss of this.
So, bubbles, can you tell us alittle bit about the actual farm
?
So we're just out of Dannevirkehere, but soils, the farm
system.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Yeah, so the farm system is one we've created.
Really We've gone from 900 cowspring calving farm a lot of
bought in food always beensystem five, but back then we
were doing about 550 a cow andabout five years ago we sat down
and wanted to change our farmsystem to make it fit what we're
doing.
So one of the options was goingautumn calving, so we changed to
(06:32):
autumn calving.
That spreads our workloadbecause all our food now is
homegrown, so we're croppingwhen we're not calving and stuff
, so we're not trying to do itall at once, which lets us focus
on the important areas.
We've lifted our milkproduction up to 650 a cow.
Obviously, the cow shelterscame in.
You know huge, Probably one ofthe biggest markers that helped
(06:56):
us change our system.
Couldn't have done it withoutthem.
Yeah, lifted our production 650a cow.
That's coming from about a 480kilo crossbreed cow.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I'll get the calculator out while you keep
talking.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
And, yeah, decided to go away because we couldn't
control importing feed.
It would just go through theroof.
And another big one of goingaway from spring calving was
trying to keep our cows at thatproduction through a drought.
It was just breaking the bank,you know.
So we switched it around and wenow can put our supplement in
(07:30):
when there's no grass to getmilk production, and it fits the
system better.
We hit a drought.
Now it's at the end oflactation, you know we've got
the option to pull pin and getthrough that a lot easier.
But yeah, and then growing.
So sugar beet and maize,soilage and airlage are the
three things we grow on farm.
So we grow all that on the farmwhen we drop down to about 160
(07:50):
hectares for the 650 cows.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
What would be your pasture production and how much
has it lifted your overall cropand harvest?
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Yeah, so we used to average about 11 tonne 10.5 to
11 tonne of grass before westarted all this.
We're now the farm's on afive-year rotation, so we've got
hybrid grasses, so we're nowproducing about 17 tonne in
grass.
We've lifted sugar beet fromwhen we started, about 30 tonne.
(08:21):
Last year we hit 40.
And our May solage has gonefrom about 17 tonne to last year
we were at 21.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
And our Elledge.
Last year, which is only thesecond year, the Elledge was 14
tonne, so I lifted all the crops, put a lot of good people in
place to help us.
Yeah, you know, we've got likeSteph Sloan, like huge with the
fertiliser side of it.
And then we use my brother alot in the early days Mark Evans
from Rodsonster, get outcropping sorted really, and get
(08:50):
that up on ground.
And then we had cool peoplethat followed on, like Shane
Mullaney from Farmlands and goodpeople around the business,
yeah you've got to have thosegood people make a huge
difference and the other bits ofinfrastructure.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
There's feed pad and shed feeding system.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Yeah, so we've got a pretty cool shed feeding system.
We can store three bulk feeds.
Then we've got a mixer that canadd molasses and everything.
So we can have three differentdiets going into the cows any
given day.
So we can run three differentmobs.
You know, whether we've gotempty cows we want to hold
higher, or springing cows orwhatever you want to do, we've
sort of got the options to do it.
(09:30):
We put that in prior tochanging the farm system because
we were using a lot of inshed.
But you know, still today, eventhough we don't use it a lot
like we're really just soya beanmeal inside and a little bit of
DDG it's still good to have.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, it works well, and so all the other feeds are
basically bulk on the feed pad.
Yeah, it just makes a wagon theway you go.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Yeah, everything makes a wagon.
On the feed pad we put in twobig ponds so we built 20 million
effluent pond, 20 million litrefresh water which we get from
the roofs.
Then that gives us about 120,130 mils per hour to beat so it
gets us through any droughts.
We're in.
Dannyville.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Do we get, or there is a pinch period, though yeah,
it can be.
We only have one for a coupleof years because we've been too
wet, which has been our problem.
But no, that'll come back intoplay.
So when we do get dry we'llutilise all that fluid and we've
had before, when we've been ina drought with no irrigation,
we've been like 20 tonne worthof sugar beet, so we're quite
surprised actually survivedthrough that really well, but we
can kind of consistently securethat we've got it 35 plus tonne
each year, because that's animportant part of that feed each
day basically.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Can you summarise when the feeds sort of play
their role?
So we went out there and had adrive around and the sugar beets
lifted, yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
So the sugar beet will start in March.
We've got our own harvester soharvest the leaf and the bulb.
So we'll harvest it daily,usually through to about the end
of may.
And then we get the contractorsand they bulk harvest yep, so
we'll bulk harvest four hectaresat a time for june, may, june
and then july.
Then they do the rest in augustand that'll last until january.
(11:11):
Sometime in january run out ofthat and then so the sugar beet
ground then goes back to mays.
So then that's all ready.
We we can rip that up.
Get that ready Usually gives usa pretty early plant date, like
this year.
We're at 1st of October, so it'spretty good there.
And then maize silage.
Airlage is straight for energythrough June, july and August
(11:32):
really.
And then that's where the mainmaize silage is coming in.
We get up to about seven kilosof maize silage, three kilos of
eelage, and then we feed andanalyze, which pretty much takes
all the grain, turns it tosugar inside the cow, and that's
where we get a lot of milk from.
And then maize silage justthroughout the year, a kilo a
(11:53):
day pretty much all the waythrough spring to the dry off
with about four kilos of bait.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yep nice, and just for the listeners that might
have picked up earlier.
So it's about 1.3 1.35 kilos ofmilk solids per kilo of live
weight.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Very high.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
We don't see that often.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
No, they do well the Kiwi Cross cows eh.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
And I suppose one thing jumped into my mind you
put in a composting barn andWade, and I have just had a
discussion with a farmer not toolong ago.
I'm putting in thisinfrastructure.
I need more cows to pay offthis.
I need to generate more milk,but you've done the complete
opposite.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Yeah, you can't do it without doing more cows.
Yeah, it's one infrastructureyou've got to.
You can't do it with doing morecows.
It's one infrastructure you'vegot to.
If you don't pay attention toand respect it.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
It's not worth having .
Really.
I guess the show was kicked inthe first instance when we sold
a runoff block up at Ongonga.
So we're going through thatprocess, so we're looking at how
we're going to winter our cows.
Do we buy more land?
Are we going to do somethingelse?
And we ended up making thedecision to put in two shelters
and compost them, have the cowscontrolled in there.
And that's really where thatcame from, because we knew that
(13:03):
the pressure on winter andoutside in leaching and so on
was increasing and it was there.
So that's why we started withthat.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Outside for the winter at about 16, 17 kilos a
gal that just trampled half ofit in to nine and stuff, because
the beauty about our system isthat cows are drying off at like
five, five and a half.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
So they don't need any maintenance.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
So we have a huge, huge saving of feed for the
winter.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
What have been some of the challenges with the
infrastructure?
Because we hear lots of goodthings right Harvesting a lot
more pasture is, you know that'sphenomenally good.
It's nearly another 50% morepasture harvest, which is a big
tick.
Challenges With infrastructureoverall.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's quite different.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
It looks quite different now to what it was
originally.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah, I guess infrastructure overall, which is
machinery, cow shed, feed pad,effluent ponds, shelter, yard,
that type of stuff.
The first up point is it takesa lot of skill to figure out how
you're going to plan thosethings, how you're going to pay
for them, and then, when youfigure that out, who and how
you're going to build it.
There's a lot of projectmanagement that goes into each
one of those aspects and if youget that wrong, obviously it's
(14:14):
negative consequences for a longtime.
So a lot of thinking in thosethings.
We do have a lot of capitalthat we've employed in those
assets, so we need to make surethat we get a return from it.
But we have staggered them overtime as well.
We find them very useful toolslike.
The first instance we put in thein-shed feed system was to get
the cows into the shed becausethey weren't flowing well at all
.
So then we progressed that.
Then obviously the sale of theongol property, then choosing to
(14:36):
go down the line of theshelters and then knowing that
we needed better effluentstorage, let alone just
utilising that product betterfor feeding our crops and for
the rain liquid as well too.
So any asset is a lot toundertake, to build it, get it
through its project managementand get it integrated into the
system.
But then you've got a tool thatyou can utilise on farm and
(14:57):
change your farming systems ormanipulate your farming systems
around to get more out of itthen what you thought you would
have to start with.
Then there's a whole lot to dowith our an R&M and make sure
you maintain those assets aswell as managing what we have as
a machinery fund.
So when we need to turn overtractors so we're not having
dealing with breakdowns andstuff all time, which we're used
to we can fund those assets,know what we're doing with them
(15:19):
in 5, 10, 20 years' time andknow when we need to turn them
over.
We can budget for them eachyear.
So we spend about $150,000 to$200,000 on just turning over
key machinery assets, basicallyso the cropping gear and so on.
But that then leads to theability to have efficiency with
getting the tractors drivinginstead of being broken down,
getting the crops in the groundat the opportune times that we
(15:41):
have our weather windows, for.
If we were relying on thecontractor to do that, we
wouldn't go anywhere, because inthe springtime it's raining,
showering, whatever.
When it's dry for a little bit,we get something in yeah, yeah,
yeah.
And then put on some of thebigger assets like the shelter.
I suppose that gives us theability to change our farming
system in a number of differentways and that's why we ended up
shifting from spring to autumn,like Bubbles was saying before,
(16:04):
because we had those tools inplace and because of the reasons
Bubbles pointed out, it changesour workload over the year as
well as minimise our feed costsover the summertime.
But then now it gives us thecomplication of trying to figure
out new problems like with theshelters and managing things
like the carbon base, the woodchip, to sort us the value or
the expense that we have in that.
Then the more furthercomplications are around animal
(16:27):
health.
So there's a lot of benefitswith the shelter, but we're
finding more issues now aroundthe colonist that we're getting.
We lost quite a few cows lastyear and this year, um.
So we're putting a lot ofeffort into trying to remedy
that or fight that with thespeeding conditions,
vaccinations, cow sheet hygieneI suppose with tea sprays, track
hygiene as well too.
So there's a whole.
(16:47):
Every time we put another toolin we can manipulate our farming
system, but then we've got awhole different front of
positive and negative challengesto navigate through.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
So the E coli has been the last two years, but
probably seven years into yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
So we had the previous shelters for five years
but then they blew down in ourwind, which is a significant
kind of challenge for thebusiness to go through.
Yes, to deal with animals atthat time that they blew down,
which was kind of winter springa couple of years ago Obviously
then try and deal with that siteimmediately, try and deal with
the farming aspect of itimmediately.
Then try and deal with theinsurance side of it, trying to
(17:24):
get insurance out of it, tryingto fund the replacement build of
a shelter.
So the cost price between thefirst shelters and then the
second shelter that we did, likeinflation, the price of
everything just went up so muchthat it was about I can't
remember it was like $95 a metersquared back when we did it,
probably seven years ago, butnow all the companies have moved
(17:45):
to around $200.
So we had to net out a lot morecapital to get back into the
same position.
But now we've got security onthat Aztec building that we've
got, so we're not worried aboutit blowing down now.
So so we're not worried aboutit blowing down now.
So the focus is just to thecomposting.
But when we did that we don'tknow specifically what the issue
was, but now we have, unlikebefore, a lot of issues around
the E coli and the stylus, sowe're trying to figure out where
(18:07):
that's coming from and how tocombat that as well too.
As well as the simpletechniques of composting the
shelter, there's a lot of detailto that, which we kind of get
into because that's ourpersonality of trying to work
out specifically how to do it,why to do it, how to manage the
cost to it.
Because if you can do that, youcan pre-plan, pre-load the
carbon base, get through thewinter time logistically, work
(18:28):
out how to get it out later on,spread it back on farm, manage
it all in your budgets and costsand get the supply of wood chip
in when you need it so, bubbles, how has that changed for, like
over these seven years, thelearning, some of the key
learnings, I suppose, for peoplethat are either listening in or
interested, or yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Yeah, I probably learned a lot really.
So when we initially built thembuilt them for winter to get
off the crops soon found outthat the best asset was summer.
So they're about 10 degreescolder inside than the outside.
So we then stopped that, fixedour decline through summer For
milk production.
They'd actually just hold Likeyou get in at a 28, 30 degree
(19:11):
day.
They'd just be sitting downchewing their cud.
It's just awesome.
So that was the biggestlearning that we used, and then
other learnings come from it.
You've got to apply the righttechniques so ripping it every
day or twice a day if you needto, figuring it out, keeping
your eye on it when it's wet,get them out and keep it right,
(19:32):
keeping your cows to the rightsquare metres, but then change
your feed yeah, altering thatdiet, especially for the winter.
So like we could do 900 cows ona very high-parmigianal diet
rather than you know, if youtried 500 cows on grass they'd
probably fall over, sort ofthing.
So it's a huge difference justbeing able to manipulate that
(19:53):
diet From that.
The new shelters that we've gotnow is probably trying to
figure out why we haven't gotthem going as good as the other
one.
So we're getting a couple ofdifferent health issues coming
through.
On this one there are somethings that were done
differently that we need anotherseason to rectify them, to see
if that was them.
But like we always do, we sortof jump in and in.
(20:16):
We always try and fix a problemcoming out the other side way
better off.
So stuff like the vaccinationsthat we found out about are
coming in, yeah, so we'llprobably end up doing that.
And then we usually do two orthree things.
You never know which one fixedit.
So yeah, but making sure thatit's fixed is is probably the
best and monitoring the compostwhen it's in the barn like?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
are you testing?
Are you measuring?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
temperature.
Yeah, we.
Previously we didn't really dotoo much because the composting
was fine for what we had withspring calving and dry cows
through wintertime, so thestructure would hold up fine.
Now we've put a lot more effortinto managing it because of the
problems we've had with E coliand all the calved lactating
cows on the shelter.
So, yeah, we monitor thetemperature three days a week
(20:59):
and do dry matter testing on itthree days a week as well too.
So that's temperature threedays a week and do dry matter
testing on it three days a weekas well too.
So it's just a simple setup inthe kiosk that we do.
So we've got some data on thatwhich we're obviously looking to
continue to build on.
We do some compost analysis tohills lab so we get the
breakdown of where the carbonnitrogen ratio sits total carbon
, total nitrogen and we get tomonitor it that way as well too.
So, but we're still trying tofigure out what that means.
(21:21):
We pull it out when it's aboutthe carbon-nitrogen ratio is
about 20 to 1 type thing, 25 to1.
So we've done that historically.
But also, when you take a testof the profile of the bedding
pack, you send that away for thesample and you've got to
understand how that's kind ofdone in the lab to understand
how much carbon is still inthere.
So what I want to mean by thatis that I went through and
(21:42):
sieved out some of the profileof the bedding pack and sieved
out some fines from the mediumgrade stuff, from the heavy
grade stuff, because the pointis I guess I could still see
chunks of wood in there from thechip that we purchased.
We basically have a mix of woodchip and 50% that and 50%
sawdust, but the wood chip isstill sitting there.
So I'm thinking how the hell isthis testing out to be 25 or 20
to 1 when there's still wholebits of wood chip in there?
(22:04):
So we're trying to understandwhat that means.
So still working through that,because what we need to work out
is how much carbon we have atany one point in time and how
much more we need over X periodto get through the winter or
whatever kind of couple ofmonths that we need.
So do we have enough carbonstill, or enough carbon still,
or do we need to buy in x amountof trailer loads to get that
through to that period to thenbe able to dig out because we
want to know that we time itright to dig it out at this time
(22:25):
so we don't have too muchcarbon.
Yeah, when we want to dig itout, because that's that's the
time out, right?
Yeah, so we monitor.
Yeah, temperature monitor,moisture monitor, the carbon
oxygen ratio.
We monitor them.
We don't exactly know what theymean yet.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah so where can you go for for more information on
that?
So do you look internationallyfor that information on what
does good look like in terms ofgetting?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
that right?
Yeah, that has been a struggle.
We've just done researchourselves.
We've used people likeStephanie Sloan from Canis Agri
as well as Rachel Drury fromParanag.
We've always had connectionswith them around the composting
space, so we've all been kind ofworking together and a few
other people outside that circle, to break down the
technicalities of it.
So we've looked ininternational literature,
(23:08):
haven't really found what weneed.
Our conditions here areobviously different than
anywhere else in the world.
For example, in Australiathey've got 15 square metres of
cow, they've got fans over topfor cooling off the cows, but
also the drying of the beddingpack 24 hours a day in there.
So that system suits them.
But come to us where we can useit.
Um, from anywhere from eightsquare meters of cow through the
winter time to what's the best,eight square meters of cow in
(23:30):
the summer time, that's it's avery different loading on the
bedding pack.
So we are looking out there ininternational literature but not
finding the answers that weneed, and hence we've got to
come back to our own place, ourown problems, and find out what
we need to do, and we're doing alot of work and trying to find
some funding for it as well too.
So we've got a bit of moneyfrom Access to Experts to help
pay for Steph and Rach to breakdown some of this analysis.
So a lot more work to go onthere.
(23:51):
But are we finding the answerssomewhere else?
No, we're working them out'sall your answers.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
We're not finding that.
You're just understanding theuniqueness of the environment
here in Dannyburg.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Yeah, In New Zealand, because we've got the one thing
everyone else doesn't havegrass.
Yeah, and that's what makes ithard.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Yeah, Because we're not 24 hours in the shed at 10
to 15 square metres of cow,where it's a stable system, with
you know.
Yeah, and moving that 15 squaremetres of cow where it's a
stable con system with you knowtotem works, racial diagrams,
yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
And moving that product on.
So someone that goes to crop,are you exporting any of that as
well?
Speaker 4 (24:30):
the compost no, not really, we've got someone on
farm that does a bit of sales.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Yeah, retail.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Nothing major.
He's on cropping.
So maize on maize, yeah, it'sgoing well.
There we're a bit differentbecause, oh, ex-dairy factory
farm, so our furt levels arevery, you know, hours in piece
and around 200.
So we can't really put it backon and stuff.
But like the runoffs, likeOtaria Lumsins, we haven't put
(24:59):
furt on that Lumsins now forfive years Because we've put
compost on.
Yeah, because we've appliedcompost and it looks pretty
magic and the tests.
We saw a test every year andit's going up, not down.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
It is a great compost product.
It tests really well for whatwe want out of it.
We tried to bulk sell some anumber of years ago or a few
years ago, but people weretrying to understand what it is
and how to spread it.
Is it more of a cost to get aspreader and to spread this
stuff?
But people who are buying pigmanure, chicken manure um, this
is a better product than that aswell too, so there could be a
market for it.
But you know anything on yougot to shift the product and
(25:34):
spread a product.
It's a lot of machinery anddecent costs labor costs that
are amongst that.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, yeah, and we're in the Horizons region.
How has the system changeaffected, like your in-leaching
numbers and stuff, because Iknow that's been a big focus in
this area.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yeah, we were wrong with these numbers.
I'm trying to remember thesoftware that's all right, make
them up.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
I'm sure you'll have them up on the screen.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Basically time off.
The paddock has meant a lot forfor, for in leaching
specifically.
So whether it's on the feed pador in the shelter, that's been
a kind of number one tool forfor, for lowering that uh, or
managing that better.
So capturing it all in the inthe f1 ponds, uh, or in the
compost itself and getting itback out on farm at the right
time as well, too, to feed theright crops at the right time.
That's been a big thing so well.
(26:19):
I don't know what we've takenit down from, but we're used to
sit around 90 before we started.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
So the shelter, along with lowering care numbers and
changing, we're down to about 32.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Wow alright, it's a huge and you can put probably
75% to the shelter yeah, just.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Time off pasture and everything.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah it's massive.
I'm just conscious Matt willprobably cut me off time-wise
shortly so I thought I'd jump inbefore he does A little way
back in the conversation youtalked about it created the
whole infrastructure and notjust the herd home, but it
created opportunities that youkind of learnt or took advantage
(27:00):
of in time.
What are some of the thingsthat you're seeing might be
potential opportunities with theinfrastructure you've got and
just where the industry isheading and things that are
happening, Because I know you'rekind of over a lot of that
stuff as well.
So what are you seeing aspotential opportunities?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Well, I guess, going forwards for ourselves as Walker
Dairies, our main strategy isto aim to be a leading producer.
So we focus on five differentareas.
That food is is one, so that'sthe big part of the dairy story
is just in food.
Uh, natural capital is anotherone, so compost, retiring areas
of land and planting nativetrees, habitat, so on.
Uh, culture is a big one,skills is a big one, and then
(27:38):
energy as well too.
So, with that view in mind,where can we go In terms of the
food aspect?
We can shift from dairy so wecan do some beef if we need to.
We can do vegetables, insects,fish.
We're a land kind of owningentity at the moment and we can
manage that land resource toproduce what we need to.
We just got to keep our eyes andears open on the markets and
make sure it's fiscallyappropriate to do and you're
(27:59):
liable of the assets that we'vegot, so we don't have to rebuild
a whole lot of differentinfrastructure.
So we've got our eyes and earskind of open to that a lot, I
can say the areas over and abovethose assets, I suppose just
the energy stuff with solar andwindmills, the compost has some
value to it that we can pullmore out of than what we are.
Yeah, that's probably about it.
It's probably around theefficiency of the farming system
(28:19):
.
So dealing with theenvironmental footprint, with
the NMH and greenhouse gasnumbers as well too, there's
just the different tools that wecan play to minimise or lower
that impact there.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, there certainly seems like there's stuff in the
sort of short to medium termhorizon where the system lends
itself quite nicely too.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Still trying to work out what the system means.
So we struggle with some of theprogramming systems to analyse
our farming system, to work outwhat the NMH or some of the um
the programming systems toanalyze our farming system, to
work out what the mhm or some ofthe greenhouse gas numbers are,
because of the complexitycomplexity of the system, yeah,
and people don't understand justyet around the composting barn
itself and whether that's apositive or negative thing in
the greenhouse gas aspect of itas well too.
(28:56):
So, yeah, um, we're just, we'rejust navigating that as we go.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's exciting stuff.
So you'll be learning somestuff out of that, oh too much.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
It's a whole phase to keep on top.
Of you know yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
It's interesting.
I literally just noted downlearning and leadership from
these two because it's comingthrough in bounds and, just
while it's front of mind,because I've heard her name pop
up a few times as Steph Sloan orSteph Hines.
She definitely owes me a coffeeafter this.
I went to school with her, butyeah, the people involved in
(29:28):
this business is definitely akey thing Wade before I do sign
off anything else.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
No, no, no, Just the things that stand out.
For me is, like I said at thestart, there's a real
professionalism in the wayyou've kind of set up the
structure in the business andeven the language you use, the
things you do.
I was trying to paint thatpicture to listeners about what
you've got up on screen.
Since I've been here, you'vehad kind of three or four
different tabs open with thingsthat illustrate the way you do
(29:56):
business, and I think that'sreally a major strength and
strength here, bo, and the factthat you're on this bit of a
journey and you're learning abunch of stuff and quite open or
you seem quite open to sharethat, which is a big part of the
success of the industry, and wecertainly appreciate you guys
jumping on and sharing some ofthat stuff with us Definitely
(30:19):
and we might be back because Ithink the breadth of this
business and what you guys areup to, there's so many topics
the HR, the succession for youguys, I think there's massive
parts.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
So big thanks to having us along today.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
It's been awesome.
Thanks for coming around.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Great Thanks, wade, and for everyone out there, make
sure you like and subscribe tothe Feed for Thought podcast.
We really appreciate it andwe'll talk to you next time.
Thanks, guys.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
Thank you, cheers.
G'day and welcome to Feed for Thought, a regular
podcast from Pioneer coveringeverything from farm systems to
crops and products and much,much more.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Right, welcome back to Feed for Thought.
My name's Matt Daly and, asalways, my sidekick or partner
in crime, wade Bell's with meand we've been doing a bit of a
road trip through the mile patch, the Manawatu, and we've jumped
over the other side toDanneverk today, to Waka Dairies
.
So welcome, wade, matt, how areyou?
Good, mate, good, and we've gottwo pretty cool.
(00:36):
Well, I'm excited about thispodcast, wade, with these two
gentlemen from Waka Dairies.
So we've got Mike and Bubblesfrom Waka Dairies.
Well, you get to introduceyourself and your roles within
the business.
But probably a little bit ofhistory.
I've visited this farm only acouple of times in the past, but
been quite impressed by thesetup and the thought that goes
(00:57):
into what makes the system tick,and even just our little
preamble at the start has been,yeah, exciting.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I think we arrived here with a topic in mind that I
actually started thinking oh,there could be four or five
different topics at this podcastor angles that this podcast
could take.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
But anyway, welcome guys.
So, Michael, I might start withyou, Just your part in the
business and history to today.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, so I'm Michael Phillips, born and bred here
with Russell and Karen mum anddad.
So Phillips family have beenhere nearly 120 years.
I've been working here about 18years for actual employment.
Managing director is my role.
That's about it.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Short and sharp, yeah , nice.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
And Bubbles yeah, so my name's Bubbles.
I've been here 14 seasons.
I'm the operations businessmanager here at Walker Dairies
and your guys roles.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Have they changed much over the time?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I mean every day yeah , first start.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
So first season here started as farm manager, yeah,
and then it's just progressed,probably from there had
succession come in.
Yeah, really, I was underMike's dad dad when I first
started and now it's Mike, so,yeah, just seeing it succeed
through there.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
And the structure of the business has changed quite a
bit.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah, we've just recently, yeah, just been able
to move out of the board systemand just move to a simpler
managing director role, stillwith the communication link back
to the shareholders obviously.
But that's taken a lot of kindof administration weight off us
and it's kind of part of theoverall succession plan that
we've got going on as well too.
So that's been a good milestoneto hit and it's working pretty
well at the moment.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
When we started talking, before the podcast even
kicked off.
You know, one of the thingsthat stood out to me, like I
mentioned to you, is that you'vegot quite a sort of formalized
structure in a way.
You know that even the languagethat you're using, you know
it's quite a uh, it's quite aunique thing, um, uh, that we
don't sort of see in dairy.
You know, you've talked, you'vetalked about board and you've
talked about a bit aboutsuccession.
(02:57):
You know, like, what sort ofhow has that evolved or come
about?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
it's.
We've just always beenprofessional people.
We're operating a business here.
We probably take that lead frommum and dad as well too.
We have to be on top of whatwe're doing, be doing the right
things and be focused in theright areas.
If we don't, we end up comingbackwards within the business
and with what we're trying to dowith our own lives.
So that stems from there, andthen, following that, like 10,
15 years ago when mum and dadwere looking to be succeeded
(03:22):
from the business, the questionis all right, how do we do that?
And it was kind of an obviouschoice for us to start a board
structure so we could thenremove some roles and
responsibilities from thosepeople to other people, and then
we'll just carry that forwardsto basically where we are now,
which is then finishing theboard, because we're in a
different phase.
So it's gone through its circle, which has been quite good,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I probably came here because I knew of the composting
barn and it's probably whatmight be the title of this, but
there's so much more to thebusiness, the culture that you
guys have been.
We talked a little bit aboutpreviously as well.
What are some of the thingsyou're doing to get your team
ticking?
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I think probably the main thing is it sounds probably
a bit ironic, but probably justleading from the front.
I think always having standardsat the right level that we want
for our business and showingthat from the two of us is
important.
You can talk all day long anddo what you want in terms of
culture, but if you're notshowing it from yourself, not
leading that way and speakingthat way and bringing the team
along with you with what you'retrying to kind of achieve,
you're not really going to kindof go anywhere.
(04:18):
So it's about leading it in thefirst instance.
Then we Then we put afoundation of the culture, which
is around our Thursday meetings.
So we're always meeting eachweek.
It's a good thing that everyonelooks forward to.
We have some coffee, we breaksome bread, have some laughs,
then we get into a bit of work,safe stuff, what we're up to on
the farm, what some other plansare discussions with the team,
so we can all interact together.
So it's not an overbearingmeeting.
(04:40):
It's a cool meeting everyonelikes to turn up to, because
it's kind of a good time we getto reorganise and refocus where
we're at and just come back nextweek as well too.
So that's been a big part of it.
And then we follow on thingsfrom there, like celebrating
birthdays, doing Christmasdinners, doing Walker family
barbecues each year, so weconnect with the families and
the kids and take them out onmotorbikes and diggers and stuff
which they don't really get todo otherwise, and that's kind of
(05:02):
the platform, I guess, for ourculture.
So learning from the front,then connecting with everyone as
we go, and then we just layerdifferent stuff on top of that,
whether it's mental health stuffor personal stuff that people
are going through.
Or I was just saying before therosters how we structure the
employment per se.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So yeah, To paint the picture for our listeners.
You know, we're sitting here atthe know in front of a big
screen TV.
That's where a lot of that'sformalized.
You know you've got it kind oflaid out.
Yeah, these are the things wedo, this is how, this is how we
operate.
You know, we've just seen, youknow, two or three page summary
of what you do with your team,which is really phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I figured a lot of things quite quick, so if I
write stuff down then I canalways refer back to my phone
area.
I need one of these in myoffice.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yeah, we need one of these for our podcast.
We'd be a lot more professional.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Probably, and speaking of professionalism, I
probably should have got a bitmore about the actual system.
I'm always remiss of this.
So, bubbles, can you tell us alittle bit about the actual farm
?
So we're just out of Dannevirkehere, but soils, the farm
system.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Yeah, so the farm system is one we've created.
Really We've gone from 900 cowspring calving farm a lot of
bought in food always beensystem five, but back then we
were doing about 550 a cow andabout five years ago we sat down
and wanted to change our farmsystem to make it fit what we're
doing.
So one of the options was goingautumn calving, so we changed to
(06:32):
autumn calving.
That spreads our workloadbecause all our food now is
homegrown, so we're croppingwhen we're not calving and stuff
, so we're not trying to do itall at once, which lets us focus
on the important areas.
We've lifted our milkproduction up to 650 a cow.
Obviously, the cow shelterscame in.
You know huge, Probably one ofthe biggest markers that helped
(06:56):
us change our system.
Couldn't have done it withoutthem.
Yeah, lifted our production 650a cow.
That's coming from about a 480kilo crossbreed cow.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I'll get the calculator out while you keep
talking.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
And, yeah, decided to go away because we couldn't
control importing feed.
It would just go through theroof.
And another big one of goingaway from spring calving was
trying to keep our cows at thatproduction through a drought.
It was just breaking the bank,you know.
So we switched it around and wenow can put our supplement in
(07:30):
when there's no grass to getmilk production, and it fits the
system better.
We hit a drought.
Now it's at the end oflactation, you know we've got
the option to pull pin and getthrough that a lot easier.
But yeah, and then growing.
So sugar beet and maize,soilage and airlage are the
three things we grow on farm.
So we grow all that on the farmwhen we drop down to about 160
(07:50):
hectares for the 650 cows.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
What would be your pasture production and how much
has it lifted your overall cropand harvest?
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Yeah, so we used to average about 11 tonne 10.5 to
11 tonne of grass before westarted all this.
We're now the farm's on afive-year rotation, so we've got
hybrid grasses, so we're nowproducing about 17 tonne in
grass.
We've lifted sugar beet fromwhen we started, about 30 tonne.
(08:21):
Last year we hit 40.
And our May solage has gonefrom about 17 tonne to last year
we were at 21.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
And our Elledge.
Last year, which is only thesecond year, the Elledge was 14
tonne, so I lifted all the crops, put a lot of good people in
place to help us.
Yeah, you know, we've got likeSteph Sloan, like huge with the
fertiliser side of it.
And then we use my brother alot in the early days Mark Evans
from Rodsonster, get outcropping sorted really, and get
(08:50):
that up on ground.
And then we had cool peoplethat followed on, like Shane
Mullaney from Farmlands and goodpeople around the business,
yeah you've got to have thosegood people make a huge
difference and the other bits ofinfrastructure.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
There's feed pad and shed feeding system.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Yeah, so we've got a pretty cool shed feeding system.
We can store three bulk feeds.
Then we've got a mixer that canadd molasses and everything.
So we can have three differentdiets going into the cows any
given day.
So we can run three differentmobs.
You know, whether we've gotempty cows we want to hold
higher, or springing cows orwhatever you want to do, we've
sort of got the options to do it.
(09:30):
We put that in prior tochanging the farm system because
we were using a lot of inshed.
But you know, still today, eventhough we don't use it a lot
like we're really just soya beanmeal inside and a little bit of
DDG it's still good to have.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, it works well, and so all the other feeds are
basically bulk on the feed pad.
Yeah, it just makes a wagon theway you go.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Yeah, everything makes a wagon.
On the feed pad we put in twobig ponds so we built 20 million
effluent pond, 20 million litrefresh water which we get from
the roofs.
Then that gives us about 120,130 mils per hour to beat so it
gets us through any droughts.
We're in.
Dannyville.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Do we get, or there is a pinch period, though yeah,
it can be.
We only have one for a coupleof years because we've been too
wet, which has been our problem.
But no, that'll come back intoplay.
So when we do get dry we'llutilise all that fluid and we've
had before, when we've been ina drought with no irrigation,
we've been like 20 tonne worthof sugar beet, so we're quite
surprised actually survivedthrough that really well, but we
can kind of consistently securethat we've got it 35 plus tonne
each year, because that's animportant part of that feed each
day basically.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Can you summarise when the feeds sort of play
their role?
So we went out there and had adrive around and the sugar beets
lifted, yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
So the sugar beet will start in March.
We've got our own harvester soharvest the leaf and the bulb.
So we'll harvest it daily,usually through to about the end
of may.
And then we get the contractorsand they bulk harvest yep, so
we'll bulk harvest four hectaresat a time for june, may, june
and then july.
Then they do the rest in augustand that'll last until january.
(11:11):
Sometime in january run out ofthat and then so the sugar beet
ground then goes back to mays.
So then that's all ready.
We we can rip that up.
Get that ready Usually gives usa pretty early plant date, like
this year.
We're at 1st of October, so it'spretty good there.
And then maize silage.
Airlage is straight for energythrough June, july and August
(11:32):
really.
And then that's where the mainmaize silage is coming in.
We get up to about seven kilosof maize silage, three kilos of
eelage, and then we feed andanalyze, which pretty much takes
all the grain, turns it tosugar inside the cow, and that's
where we get a lot of milk from.
And then maize silage justthroughout the year, a kilo a
(11:53):
day pretty much all the waythrough spring to the dry off
with about four kilos of bait.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yep nice, and just for the listeners that might
have picked up earlier.
So it's about 1.3 1.35 kilos ofmilk solids per kilo of live
weight.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Very high.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
We don't see that often.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
No, they do well the Kiwi Cross cows eh.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
And I suppose one thing jumped into my mind you
put in a composting barn andWade, and I have just had a
discussion with a farmer not toolong ago.
I'm putting in thisinfrastructure.
I need more cows to pay offthis.
I need to generate more milk,but you've done the complete
opposite.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Yeah, you can't do it without doing more cows.
Yeah, it's one infrastructureyou've got to.
You can't do it with doing morecows.
It's one infrastructure you'vegot to.
If you don't pay attention toand respect it.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
It's not worth having .
Really.
I guess the show was kicked inthe first instance when we sold
a runoff block up at Ongonga.
So we're going through thatprocess, so we're looking at how
we're going to winter our cows.
Do we buy more land?
Are we going to do somethingelse?
And we ended up making thedecision to put in two shelters
and compost them, have the cowscontrolled in there.
And that's really where thatcame from, because we knew that
(13:03):
the pressure on winter andoutside in leaching and so on
was increasing and it was there.
So that's why we started withthat.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Outside for the winter at about 16, 17 kilos a
gal that just trampled half ofit in to nine and stuff, because
the beauty about our system isthat cows are drying off at like
five, five and a half.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
So they don't need any maintenance.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
So we have a huge, huge saving of feed for the
winter.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
What have been some of the challenges with the
infrastructure?
Because we hear lots of goodthings right Harvesting a lot
more pasture is, you know that'sphenomenally good.
It's nearly another 50% morepasture harvest, which is a big
tick.
Challenges With infrastructureoverall.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's quite different.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
It looks quite different now to what it was
originally.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah, I guess infrastructure overall, which is
machinery, cow shed, feed pad,effluent ponds, shelter, yard,
that type of stuff.
The first up point is it takesa lot of skill to figure out how
you're going to plan thosethings, how you're going to pay
for them, and then, when youfigure that out, who and how
you're going to build it.
There's a lot of projectmanagement that goes into each
one of those aspects and if youget that wrong, obviously it's
(14:14):
negative consequences for a longtime.
So a lot of thinking in thosethings.
We do have a lot of capitalthat we've employed in those
assets, so we need to make surethat we get a return from it.
But we have staggered them overtime as well.
We find them very useful toolslike.
The first instance we put in thein-shed feed system was to get
the cows into the shed becausethey weren't flowing well at all
.
So then we progressed that.
Then obviously the sale of theongol property, then choosing to
(14:36):
go down the line of theshelters and then knowing that
we needed better effluentstorage, let alone just
utilising that product betterfor feeding our crops and for
the rain liquid as well too.
So any asset is a lot toundertake, to build it, get it
through its project managementand get it integrated into the
system.
But then you've got a tool thatyou can utilise on farm and
(14:57):
change your farming systems ormanipulate your farming systems
around to get more out of itthen what you thought you would
have to start with.
Then there's a whole lot to dowith our an R&M and make sure
you maintain those assets aswell as managing what we have as
a machinery fund.
So when we need to turn overtractors so we're not having
dealing with breakdowns andstuff all time, which we're used
to we can fund those assets,know what we're doing with them
(15:19):
in 5, 10, 20 years' time andknow when we need to turn them
over.
We can budget for them eachyear.
So we spend about $150,000 to$200,000 on just turning over
key machinery assets, basicallyso the cropping gear and so on.
But that then leads to theability to have efficiency with
getting the tractors drivinginstead of being broken down,
getting the crops in the groundat the opportune times that we
(15:41):
have our weather windows, for.
If we were relying on thecontractor to do that, we
wouldn't go anywhere, because inthe springtime it's raining,
showering, whatever.
When it's dry for a little bit,we get something in yeah, yeah,
yeah.
And then put on some of thebigger assets like the shelter.
I suppose that gives us theability to change our farming
system in a number of differentways and that's why we ended up
shifting from spring to autumn,like Bubbles was saying before,
(16:04):
because we had those tools inplace and because of the reasons
Bubbles pointed out, it changesour workload over the year as
well as minimise our feed costsover the summertime.
But then now it gives us thecomplication of trying to figure
out new problems like with theshelters and managing things
like the carbon base, the woodchip, to sort us the value or
the expense that we have in that.
Then the more furthercomplications are around animal
(16:27):
health.
So there's a lot of benefitswith the shelter, but we're
finding more issues now aroundthe colonist that we're getting.
We lost quite a few cows lastyear and this year, um.
So we're putting a lot ofeffort into trying to remedy
that or fight that with thespeeding conditions,
vaccinations, cow sheet hygieneI suppose with tea sprays, track
hygiene as well too.
So there's a whole.
(16:47):
Every time we put another toolin we can manipulate our farming
system, but then we've got awhole different front of
positive and negative challengesto navigate through.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
So the E coli has been the last two years, but
probably seven years into yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
So we had the previous shelters for five years
but then they blew down in ourwind, which is a significant
kind of challenge for thebusiness to go through.
Yes, to deal with animals atthat time that they blew down,
which was kind of winter springa couple of years ago Obviously
then try and deal with that siteimmediately, try and deal with
the farming aspect of itimmediately.
Then try and deal with theinsurance side of it, trying to
(17:24):
get insurance out of it, tryingto fund the replacement build of
a shelter.
So the cost price between thefirst shelters and then the
second shelter that we did, likeinflation, the price of
everything just went up so muchthat it was about I can't
remember it was like $95 a metersquared back when we did it,
probably seven years ago, butnow all the companies have moved
(17:45):
to around $200.
So we had to net out a lot morecapital to get back into the
same position.
But now we've got security onthat Aztec building that we've
got, so we're not worried aboutit blowing down now.
So so we're not worried aboutit blowing down now.
So the focus is just to thecomposting.
But when we did that we don'tknow specifically what the issue
was, but now we have, unlikebefore, a lot of issues around
the E coli and the stylus, sowe're trying to figure out where
(18:07):
that's coming from and how tocombat that as well too.
As well as the simpletechniques of composting the
shelter, there's a lot of detailto that, which we kind of get
into because that's ourpersonality of trying to work
out specifically how to do it,why to do it, how to manage the
cost to it.
Because if you can do that, youcan pre-plan, pre-load the
carbon base, get through thewinter time logistically, work
(18:28):
out how to get it out later on,spread it back on farm, manage
it all in your budgets and costsand get the supply of wood chip
in when you need it so, bubbles, how has that changed for, like
over these seven years, thelearning, some of the key
learnings, I suppose, for peoplethat are either listening in or
interested, or yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Yeah, I probably learned a lot really.
So when we initially built thembuilt them for winter to get
off the crops soon found outthat the best asset was summer.
So they're about 10 degreescolder inside than the outside.
So we then stopped that, fixedour decline through summer For
milk production.
They'd actually just hold Likeyou get in at a 28, 30 degree
(19:11):
day.
They'd just be sitting downchewing their cud.
It's just awesome.
So that was the biggestlearning that we used, and then
other learnings come from it.
You've got to apply the righttechniques so ripping it every
day or twice a day if you needto, figuring it out, keeping
your eye on it when it's wet,get them out and keep it right,
(19:32):
keeping your cows to the rightsquare metres, but then change
your feed yeah, altering thatdiet, especially for the winter.
So like we could do 900 cows ona very high-parmigianal diet
rather than you know, if youtried 500 cows on grass they'd
probably fall over, sort ofthing.
So it's a huge difference justbeing able to manipulate that
(19:53):
diet From that.
The new shelters that we've gotnow is probably trying to
figure out why we haven't gotthem going as good as the other
one.
So we're getting a couple ofdifferent health issues coming
through.
On this one there are somethings that were done
differently that we need anotherseason to rectify them, to see
if that was them.
But like we always do, we sortof jump in and in.
(20:16):
We always try and fix a problemcoming out the other side way
better off.
So stuff like the vaccinationsthat we found out about are
coming in, yeah, so we'llprobably end up doing that.
And then we usually do two orthree things.
You never know which one fixedit.
So yeah, but making sure thatit's fixed is is probably the
best and monitoring the compostwhen it's in the barn like?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
are you testing?
Are you measuring?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
temperature.
Yeah, we.
Previously we didn't really dotoo much because the composting
was fine for what we had withspring calving and dry cows
through wintertime, so thestructure would hold up fine.
Now we've put a lot more effortinto managing it because of the
problems we've had with E coliand all the calved lactating
cows on the shelter.
So, yeah, we monitor thetemperature three days a week
(20:59):
and do dry matter testing on itthree days a week as well too.
So that's temperature threedays a week and do dry matter
testing on it three days a weekas well too.
So it's just a simple setup inthe kiosk that we do.
So we've got some data on thatwhich we're obviously looking to
continue to build on.
We do some compost analysis tohills lab so we get the
breakdown of where the carbonnitrogen ratio sits total carbon
, total nitrogen and we get tomonitor it that way as well too.
So, but we're still trying tofigure out what that means.
(21:21):
We pull it out when it's aboutthe carbon-nitrogen ratio is
about 20 to 1 type thing, 25 to1.
So we've done that historically.
But also, when you take a testof the profile of the bedding
pack, you send that away for thesample and you've got to
understand how that's kind ofdone in the lab to understand
how much carbon is still inthere.
So what I want to mean by thatis that I went through and
(21:42):
sieved out some of the profileof the bedding pack and sieved
out some fines from the mediumgrade stuff, from the heavy
grade stuff, because the pointis I guess I could still see
chunks of wood in there from thechip that we purchased.
We basically have a mix of woodchip and 50% that and 50%
sawdust, but the wood chip isstill sitting there.
So I'm thinking how the hell isthis testing out to be 25 or 20
to 1 when there's still wholebits of wood chip in there?
(22:04):
So we're trying to understandwhat that means.
So still working through that,because what we need to work out
is how much carbon we have atany one point in time and how
much more we need over X periodto get through the winter or
whatever kind of couple ofmonths that we need.
So do we have enough carbonstill, or enough carbon still,
or do we need to buy in x amountof trailer loads to get that
through to that period to thenbe able to dig out because we
want to know that we time itright to dig it out at this time
(22:25):
so we don't have too muchcarbon.
Yeah, when we want to dig itout, because that's that's the
time out, right?
Yeah, so we monitor.
Yeah, temperature monitor,moisture monitor, the carbon
oxygen ratio.
We monitor them.
We don't exactly know what theymean yet.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah so where can you go for for more information on
that?
So do you look internationallyfor that information on what
does good look like in terms ofgetting?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
that right?
Yeah, that has been a struggle.
We've just done researchourselves.
We've used people likeStephanie Sloan from Canis Agri
as well as Rachel Drury fromParanag.
We've always had connectionswith them around the composting
space, so we've all been kind ofworking together and a few
other people outside that circle, to break down the
technicalities of it.
So we've looked ininternational literature,
(23:08):
haven't really found what weneed.
Our conditions here areobviously different than
anywhere else in the world.
For example, in Australiathey've got 15 square metres of
cow, they've got fans over topfor cooling off the cows, but
also the drying of the beddingpack 24 hours a day in there.
So that system suits them.
But come to us where we can useit.
Um, from anywhere from eightsquare meters of cow through the
winter time to what's the best,eight square meters of cow in
(23:30):
the summer time, that's it's avery different loading on the
bedding pack.
So we are looking out there ininternational literature but not
finding the answers that weneed, and hence we've got to
come back to our own place, ourown problems, and find out what
we need to do, and we're doing alot of work and trying to find
some funding for it as well too.
So we've got a bit of moneyfrom Access to Experts to help
pay for Steph and Rach to breakdown some of this analysis.
So a lot more work to go onthere.
(23:51):
But are we finding the answerssomewhere else?
No, we're working them out'sall your answers.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
We're not finding that.
You're just understanding theuniqueness of the environment
here in Dannyburg.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Yeah, In New Zealand, because we've got the one thing
everyone else doesn't havegrass.
Yeah, and that's what makes ithard.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Yeah, Because we're not 24 hours in the shed at 10
to 15 square metres of cow,where it's a stable system, with
you know.
Yeah, and moving that 15 squaremetres of cow where it's a
stable con system with you knowtotem works, racial diagrams,
yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
And moving that product on.
So someone that goes to crop,are you exporting any of that as
well?
Speaker 4 (24:30):
the compost no, not really, we've got someone on
farm that does a bit of sales.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Yeah, retail.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Nothing major.
He's on cropping.
So maize on maize, yeah, it'sgoing well.
There we're a bit differentbecause, oh, ex-dairy factory
farm, so our furt levels arevery, you know, hours in piece
and around 200.
So we can't really put it backon and stuff.
But like the runoffs, likeOtaria Lumsins, we haven't put
(24:59):
furt on that Lumsins now forfive years Because we've put
compost on.
Yeah, because we've appliedcompost and it looks pretty
magic and the tests.
We saw a test every year andit's going up, not down.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
It is a great compost product.
It tests really well for whatwe want out of it.
We tried to bulk sell some anumber of years ago or a few
years ago, but people weretrying to understand what it is
and how to spread it.
Is it more of a cost to get aspreader and to spread this
stuff?
But people who are buying pigmanure, chicken manure um, this
is a better product than that aswell too, so there could be a
market for it.
But you know anything on yougot to shift the product and
(25:34):
spread a product.
It's a lot of machinery anddecent costs labor costs that
are amongst that.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, yeah, and we're in the Horizons region.
How has the system changeaffected, like your in-leaching
numbers and stuff, because Iknow that's been a big focus in
this area.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yeah, we were wrong with these numbers.
I'm trying to remember thesoftware that's all right, make
them up.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
I'm sure you'll have them up on the screen.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Basically time off.
The paddock has meant a lot forfor, for in leaching
specifically.
So whether it's on the feed pador in the shelter, that's been
a kind of number one tool forfor, for lowering that uh, or
managing that better.
So capturing it all in the inthe f1 ponds, uh, or in the
compost itself and getting itback out on farm at the right
time as well, too, to feed theright crops at the right time.
That's been a big thing so well.
(26:19):
I don't know what we've takenit down from, but we're used to
sit around 90 before we started.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
So the shelter, along with lowering care numbers and
changing, we're down to about 32.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Wow alright, it's a huge and you can put probably
75% to the shelter yeah, just.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Time off pasture and everything.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah it's massive.
I'm just conscious Matt willprobably cut me off time-wise
shortly so I thought I'd jump inbefore he does A little way
back in the conversation youtalked about it created the
whole infrastructure and notjust the herd home, but it
created opportunities that youkind of learnt or took advantage
(27:00):
of in time.
What are some of the thingsthat you're seeing might be
potential opportunities with theinfrastructure you've got and
just where the industry isheading and things that are
happening, Because I know you'rekind of over a lot of that
stuff as well.
So what are you seeing aspotential opportunities?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Well, I guess, going forwards for ourselves as Walker
Dairies, our main strategy isto aim to be a leading producer.
So we focus on five differentareas.
That food is is one, so that'sthe big part of the dairy story
is just in food.
Uh, natural capital is anotherone, so compost, retiring areas
of land and planting nativetrees, habitat, so on.
Uh, culture is a big one,skills is a big one, and then
(27:38):
energy as well too.
So, with that view in mind,where can we go In terms of the
food aspect?
We can shift from dairy so wecan do some beef if we need to.
We can do vegetables, insects,fish.
We're a land kind of owningentity at the moment and we can
manage that land resource toproduce what we need to.
We just got to keep our eyes andears open on the markets and
make sure it's fiscallyappropriate to do and you're
(27:59):
liable of the assets that we'vegot, so we don't have to rebuild
a whole lot of differentinfrastructure.
So we've got our eyes and earskind of open to that a lot, I
can say the areas over and abovethose assets, I suppose just
the energy stuff with solar andwindmills, the compost has some
value to it that we can pullmore out of than what we are.
Yeah, that's probably about it.
It's probably around theefficiency of the farming system
(28:19):
.
So dealing with theenvironmental footprint, with
the NMH and greenhouse gasnumbers as well too, there's
just the different tools that wecan play to minimise or lower
that impact there.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, there certainly seems like there's stuff in the
sort of short to medium termhorizon where the system lends
itself quite nicely too.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Still trying to work out what the system means.
So we struggle with some of theprogramming systems to analyse
our farming system, to work outwhat the NMH or some of the um
the programming systems toanalyze our farming system, to
work out what the mhm or some ofthe greenhouse gas numbers are,
because of the complexitycomplexity of the system, yeah,
and people don't understand justyet around the composting barn
itself and whether that's apositive or negative thing in
the greenhouse gas aspect of itas well too.
(28:56):
So, yeah, um, we're just, we'rejust navigating that as we go.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's exciting stuff.
So you'll be learning somestuff out of that, oh too much.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
It's a whole phase to keep on top.
Of you know yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
It's interesting.
I literally just noted downlearning and leadership from
these two because it's comingthrough in bounds and, just
while it's front of mind,because I've heard her name pop
up a few times as Steph Sloan orSteph Hines.
She definitely owes me a coffeeafter this.
I went to school with her, butyeah, the people involved in
(29:28):
this business is definitely akey thing Wade before I do sign
off anything else.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
No, no, no, Just the things that stand out.
For me is, like I said at thestart, there's a real
professionalism in the wayyou've kind of set up the
structure in the business andeven the language you use, the
things you do.
I was trying to paint thatpicture to listeners about what
you've got up on screen.
Since I've been here, you'vehad kind of three or four
different tabs open with thingsthat illustrate the way you do
(29:56):
business, and I think that'sreally a major strength and
strength here, bo, and the factthat you're on this bit of a
journey and you're learning abunch of stuff and quite open or
you seem quite open to sharethat, which is a big part of the
success of the industry, and wecertainly appreciate you guys
jumping on and sharing some ofthat stuff with us Definitely
(30:19):
and we might be back because Ithink the breadth of this
business and what you guys areup to, there's so many topics
the HR, the succession for youguys, I think there's massive
parts.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
So big thanks to having us along today.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
It's been awesome.
Thanks for coming around.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Great Thanks, wade, and for everyone out there, make
sure you like and subscribe tothe Feed for Thought podcast.
We really appreciate it andwe'll talk to you next time.
Thanks, guys.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
Thank you, cheers.
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