In this episode, we delve into the pivotal role of sustainability in shaping the future of dairy farming. We are privileged to have Charlotte Rutherford, Fonterra's Director of Sustainability, join Wade and Matt in a thought-provoking discussion. Together, they explore the transformation of environmental efforts from basic compliance to tackling global sustainability challenges.
Charlotte highlights the market's increasing demand for sustainable products and answers the question of what it takes to achieve a 30% reduction in emission intensity by 2030 and aim for near-zero emissions by 2050. She delves into Fonterra's comprehensive climate strategy and scope three objectives, emphasizing the importance of investments in projects like AgriZero and the intricate dynamics of gaining cooperative-wide support for sustainability goals.
Tune in to understand why there is such a growing focus on sustainability and GHG emissions and how these efforts are transforming the future of dairy farming.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the first of a two-part series where we're
diving into a crucial topicimpacting our future farm
systems, with the focus ongreenhouse gas emissions.
To kick off part one and helpus navigate this complex issue,
we're thrilled to have with usFonterra's Director of
Sustainability, charlotteRutherford.
Charlotte has a wealth ofexperience in leading
sustainability initiatives andwe're excited to hear her
(00:22):
insights initiatives and we'reexcited to hear her insights.
And make sure you tune in forpart two, with Malcolm Ellis,
fonterra's strategic advisor, onhow farmers can go about
emissions reductions.
So here we go, g'day and welcometo Feed for Thought, a regular
podcast from Pioneer coveringeverything from farm systems to
crops and products and much,much more.
(00:44):
Covering everything from farmsystems to crops and products
and much, much more.
All right, welcome back to Feedfor Thought.
My name's Matt Daly and, asalways, we're trying to deliver
some knowledge to hungry farmersthat are keen on all things
maize, but all things farmsystems, wade.
And so, as I say, wade's here,my old mate, and today we're
actually going to delve into abit of a not a passion, but it's
something you've been lookinginto a lot of late, for us and
(01:06):
for the industry Wade.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Look, it is a real pleasure to have Charlotte
Rutherford on the podcast today.
Welcome, Charlotte.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Thank you, it is a pleasure to be here, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
So can you give us a little bit of background about
your time with Fonterra?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
You've been here a long time, a lifer, a long time,
yeah, I'd say definite lifer.
I have been here just actuallyjust 22 years.
Yeah, just that longer thanI've been married.
Or, yeah, more time than theage of my children.
So Fonterra's been a huge partof my life.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Did you have a stint at anything prior to Fonterra?
Yes, I worked at Dairy NZprevious to that?
And then what was MAF?
So really, of 22 years doesn'tshow my age.
I remember me showing my ageand talking about government
departments like that.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
You don't need to tell us how many years were
those organisations?
No, no, not long months.
Yeah, yeah, Starting in yournappies as well.
Yeah, totally yeah.
So you have been here a longtime, all in roles largely
centred around sustainability.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yes, and been here a long time all in roles largely
centred around sustainability.
Yes, and you know that'sunusual and highly unusual, but
I think that the topic area ofsustainability lent itself to me
building a career at Fonterra.
It's grown so quickly.
You know, 22 years ago we werelargely talking about effluent
compliance and you know that itpales into insignificance for
most of the industry, includingfarmers who are, you know, well
around that, and it's all prettymanaged and things.
(02:29):
But yeah, it's been an areathat's grown a lot and one of my
measures of that is every jobI've had at Fonterra hasn't
existed until I've gone into it.
So you know, that's kind of howit's grown to be a really
integral part of our strategy aswell over those years.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Do you get to write those PDs?
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Maybe one or two.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
What a position to be in.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Nothing like building the bridges you're crossing at.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, brilliant.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
So you touched on environmental compliance there
and one of the messages thatI've been talking with our team
and with farmers is that itfeels like at the moment that
the market drivers around thiswhole environmental
sustainability is moving muchfaster than environmental
compliance.
I would say.
Environmental compliance justseems so slow.
It's got negative connotationsbut in recent times and I'm kind
(03:17):
of thinking in the last sort ofyear or two in particular
noticing this really fast pacedkind of market drive for
sustainably produced products.
You know that's the space youwork in, right.
You're dealing with customersthat are demanding that.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Oh, absolutely, I think you're spot on Wade.
I would totally agree with thatand whilst that is the area
that I'm working in at themoment, 20 years was more in
that New Zealand-facing kind ofregulatory compliance space.
So I think it does show thatreally rapid shift and I think
climate and emissions is a reallife example sitting there for
farmers at the moment, that it'sbeing for Fonterra and its
(03:53):
farmer owners.
It's being much more heavilydriven by our customers and also
financial markets and access tocapital and regulation and
things we're seeing on a globalscale than what may or may not
be happening in New Zealandrelating to climate regulation.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
So, which presents more of the why, I suppose, as
to why we're having to go downthis space.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Very much so.
And at the end of last year,when we announced our climate
roadmap and our scope threetarget, which is largely an
on-farm target, so you know itsits with our farmer owners we
spent, you know, a good 10months going through the why
with farmers, because that wasso important and because we were
in a period, too, in NewZealand when, you know, there
(04:36):
was he Waka Eka Noa and we weretalking about levies and
domestic policy and we needed tospend some time really
explaining why their co-opregardless of what they were
seeing and feeling in NewZealand why their co-op still
needed to kind of push on withthis and what were the reasons
why this was so important to usas a co-op to be addressing
(04:58):
emissions, particularly scopethree ones.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
How are they taking it?
Because regulation is micro andyou're almost talking about
macro forces as to why We've hadthis heavy focus on regulatory,
but you're saying the market orthese forces are bigger.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Well, I would say bigger, and I think that's
probably.
Farmers have taken it reallywell.
Like you know, we were nervous.
A scope three target is huge fora co-op to be announcing, but
it went as well or better thanwe probably could have imagined
and I think that's becausefarmers, they run businesses and
they know that their businesshas customers for the product
(05:35):
that they produce and we havegot real life examples of how
important this is to customersand also that financial angle as
well.
So those are really easy thingsfor them to latch on to and to
think about the resilience oftheir own business in that
context.
So that really helped in termsof the messaging and we went
really quickly from the what iethe target to now it's the how,
(05:58):
what do I actually do on my farm?
To kind of get that underway.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Which might be our next guest.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, absolutely, a nice might be our next guest.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
A nice lead to the next guest, but you're not
getting out of here quite thateasily, shana, unfortunately.
So you talked about access tofunding and kind of financial
drivers, and I know one of thegripes of farmers in particular
is you know what's the value addpart of it for me?
So if we kind of achieve thesetargets and we deliver on what
our customers are after, how dowe get remunerated for that
(06:29):
effort?
What's your response?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
There's a couple of angles to that.
There's the new additionalvalue that is available, but
that's to those that go first,that are the leaders and can
provide to our customers thedairy products that have the
lowest emission footprintassociated with it.
We are meeting Fonterra NewZealand dairy.
We are absolutely in thatleading pack, but for a long
(06:54):
time I think we were leading, wewere at the front, but there
were people catching us.
So we're in the pack and whilstwe can present a really
compelling story to ourcustomers, there's other dairy
companies around the globe thatcan present that one as well.
So we have to be very, verymindful of that.
But that is one thing.
We can extract new value.
You're already seeing thathappen in different ways.
(07:16):
We have a series of projectswith Nestle in New Zealand the
Net Zero Farm down in Taranaki,and then also there's groups of
farmers in Fonterra that areworking in good management
practice and on-farm plantingthat Nestle have put funding
into.
They're really focused onsupporting farmers.
Additionally, if you achievecooperative difference this year
, you get an additional one totwo cents payment from Nestle,
(07:39):
which is a direct reflection ofour low-carbon position.
That is exactly what they havepaid for.
Nestle is not the only customerwe have, mars.
Mars have started GreenerChoices seed-funded Greener
Choices in the stores, which isrewarding farmers that choose
more sustainable products, andwe're talking to both of them
about how do we take it to thenext level in terms of valuing
(08:03):
the reductions farmers are goingto make in terms of emissions
reductions and how we can returnmore value.
But way and above and this isusually not the thing that
farmers necessarily want to hear, but it is our commercial
reality way and above that isthe protection of existing value
.
So if you get a customer thatpurchases a lot from us at the
(08:26):
moment, that's valuable to us asmargin and that's how we return
value to our shareholders.
But if they can get loweremissions milk for a better or
equal price elsewhere in theglobe, then perhaps we lose
access to those customers.
So the big chunk of it isprotecting existing value, but
also my job and very laserfocused on, is also chasing
(08:48):
additional value for farmers.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
And you don't have to possibly go down that because
we don't even know where we'regoing to be, but with consumer
brands being possibly pushed tothe side, is there an increase
in your focus in terms of as westart to trade that milk on a
global scale without thosebrands?
Is that going to mean thatthere's more importance to
understand and be able to marketon our scope through?
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, it's certainly a different discussion, but one
probably across the globe isconsumers want to see lower
emissions product.
You know there's a milliondifferent surveys and they'll do
this and they'll do that.
None of our customers aretelling us at the moment, though
and neither do we see it fromour own consumer brands that
(09:34):
they're going to pay a whole lotmore for it.
So it's going to cost more toproduce it, and we need to work
out how that's going to bespread across the value chain.
And you know, to our customers'credit, they know that it'll
cost them as well, and hence whythey're investing and sending
this money back down the valuechain.
It's not going to be entirelyrecouped just through upping
(09:56):
food costs or end product costsfor consumers.
There's going to be anexpectation over time from
consumers that they can havetheir products at a certain
price point, but also that it islow emissions or it's been
achieved through environmentallyfriendly kind of production
methods.
It's really tough because itjust sounds like it's going to
get more and more expensive tofarm, but there are prizes there
(10:19):
.
We just have to be first and wehave to keep moving to get
those.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Keep ahead of the game as well?
Speaker 2 (10:24):
So are you suggesting that the consumer is going to
have a baseline expectation thatthe product meets these kind of
standards and oh and, by theway, I'm not prepared to pay any
more for it?
Is that in?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
a nutshell yeah, that's quite binary their way.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I'm not prepared to pay any more for it.
Is that in a nutshell?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah, that's quite binary there quite black and
white.
I'm imagining listening to thisin another five years and
someone going.
You don't really know much, doyou?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
That's all right.
They say that about us all thetime.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
I think we have to be pretty realistic about that
because the other big piece ofyou know I've talked a bit about
other dairy companies but ourreal competition is alternatives
you know plant-based proteinsand we're already hearing, you
know, customers talk to us aboutthat.
They want dairy part of theirproducts, part of their value
chain.
That's why they're investing inreductions.
But equally, they have to bemindful of, for them to reach
(11:13):
their really ambitious targets,that they're going to have to
look at alternatives to proteinsand fats that come from
ruminants, because there's amuch smaller footprint when
you're getting it fromplant-based protein or you know,
maybe eventually lab-grownprotein.
So we've got a lot ofcompetition that we have to be
really mindful about.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
And what about our global competitors?
So I'm thinking New Zealand.
Now, if we have, say,inhibitors come in or change of
practices elsewhere, that rateof change and I suppose you've
already answered a little bit ofit we've got to keep ahead,
don't we?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Yeah, so we talk about being leapfrogged, you
know, and I mean we're in a raceand we're fit and we're fast in
the front but others are at ourshoulders and they report.
You know footprints that areequivalent and sometimes lower
than ours, but there isdefinitely the ability for us to
be leapfrogged and passed and anew peloton you know kind of
(12:05):
emerging for where that sits.
And I think that happens interms of we've got to look at
house cows or confined cows.
You know that the feedadditives that there is a power
load of money going into thoseto reduce emissions is going to
work so much better in thatsystem than it is in a
pasture-based system.
So you know they're reallyeffective just after they've
been eaten.
(12:25):
So you know being able to putit into a TMR or a ration that
the cow's eating.
And then you know sort of mostcontinuous reduction as opposed
for us.
You know you might be doing abit of in-sheet feeding.
You're getting a bit of abenefit for some time after that
, but it is difficulteconomically to make that stack
up.
You know how much that additivecould cost for the reduction
(12:46):
that it could achieve.
Pastoral dairy farming isunique at scale, like we do here
in New Zealand, and so we haveto be mindful that a lot of the
R&D dollars are going intosolutions that meet the needs of
housed cow systems as opposedto pastoral-based systems.
So that's why it's importantwe've got things like AgriZero
that's really looking for thosemethane reductions from
(13:08):
pastoral-based systems Is itfair to say that there's a high
probability that we'll getleapfrogged.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
You know just from everything that you've just said
there so you've got's cows, theadaptation it's white and
negative too.
Hey, well, look, I'm justtrying to ask all the questions
that I'm sure listeners will betuning in to yeah, well done
mate.
So it kind of feels likethere's a fairly high likelihood
that we could get leapfrogged.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Yeah, it's kind of happening at the moment.
So products like Bovia, whichis a feed additive that's used
in Europe and just been approvedin the US as well, that work
really well in house cow systemsfor getting reductions, and if
you see countries andgeographies like the US, the
(13:53):
government will subsidise thesethings happening in farms and
subsidise heavily, as they aredoing for biodigesters and
things that will also lowerfarmers' emissions.
So we have that additionalchallenge as well that we don't
operate in a country wherefarmers are heavily subsidised
to do these things on their farm.
That's made us incrediblyefficient because so much of the
change has come through justthe nous and expertise from
(14:16):
farmers.
But it is another challenge forus.
But it's not all doom and gloomWade's dominating here, maybe
all negative.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
There are some massive.
She started out earlier sayingthat, charlotte, you were saying
that sometimes you're a littlecynical.
I feel like I'm the one herethat's getting.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah, there are some massive advantages to pastoral
dairy farming that confinedsystems can never compete with,
and that's over and above.
Well, never say never.
It would be very challenged tocompete with, and I'm thinking
about things about nature intothe future.
That it's not all challenged.
(14:52):
There is a lot of opportunityfor us in there as well.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
So that's the marketing side right, and so I
suppose that looks towards thefuture like let's go 2030,
that's where a lot ofopportunity for us in there as
well.
So that's the marketing sideright and I suppose that looks
towards the future like let's go2030, that's where a lot of
these targets are, or evenbeyond.
What are some of the factorsthat might come into play?
I suppose that are going toimpact Fonterra and farm systems
.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Yeah, this is definitely one for Malcolm to go
deep into.
But our target is it's a 30%intensity reduction to 2030, and
it's broken down into fourparts.
And it's you know, just to bereally clear, that 30% is a
co-op wide target.
It is not an individual farmtarget by any stretch of the
(15:31):
imagination.
And then you know it's brokeninto four parts.
One of that is a 7% reductionthat we think can be achieved
through increased efficiency onfarms.
So farmers doing what they'redoing, but doing it better and a
little bit faster in terms ofbeing more productive, more
efficient and more profitable.
Again, that 7% is a co-op target, so some farmers will be able
(15:56):
to do way more, some may do less.
You know it's going to be theadoption curve there's going to
be.
You know, people have said tome oh, it's going to be the
laggards that are going toachieve that.
In reality, it's usually thetop performers that just keep
going and keep going and keepgoing.
So I just, you know, am lookingfor that kind of performance
improvement across the board,across the co-op, and that will
(16:17):
achieve that 7%.
There's also a 7% in thereabout novel technology.
So that's really important toachieving the target and that's
part of our investment intoAgriZero, along with all the
other organisations and theCrown that have put the money in
there, because we are relyingon a 7% reduction that comes
from the use of new noveltechnologies on farms.
(16:39):
So we need Wayne McNee and theteam at AgriZero to come up with
those and then we need to finda way to support farmers through
implementing those out to 2030.
And you're right, there's morework to be done after that.
We have a net zero target to2050.
Actually, no, it's not a target.
I take that back.
Lawyers will be all over me.
It's an ambition.
(17:02):
You can only have a target whenyou know exactly how you're
going to achieve it and whatyou're going to do, and we don't
know how we will get to thatnear zero by 2050.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Must be.
I mean for your role must be.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Terrifying.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yeah, I was going to say scary, but you're
effectively tasked with what andhow to get there.
Yeah, it is, it is.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
And bearing in mind, it's one thing to be tasked with
kind of having those plans andthen convincing you know a, a
CEO or even a board that thatwas the right way to go.
But we're a co-op, so it'sdeveloping those up and then
convincing the owners that thisis right for them, for their
businesses, for their capitalinvestment in the co-op and
Malcolm will touch on this more.
(17:43):
But that intergenerationalresilience moving forward, it's
like having, you know, 8,000bosses.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, yeah, and you're answerable to them at
every round of meetings.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Oh, yeah, yeah, and you're answerable to them at
every round of meetings.
Oh, yeah, yeah very much so.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah, I've got one more key question from me, and
it's one that you raised a weeway back in this podcast.
You mentioned access to fundingas being because we talked
about value, and so does it meanthat the cost of capital is
cheaper if you're hitting someof these targets?
Does it mean it's easy toaccess?
What does it mean in a businesskind of context?
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Look, I think it means a little bit of everything
, of just what you talked aboutand you know the capital markets
and treasury team in Fonterra.
They were the people that I sawat the Christmas do once a year
and waved at them.
We had nothing to do with eachother.
Sustainability and capitalmarkets, now the one area of the
business that I'm in constantcontact with.
So, whether that's turning upto rating agency audits, whether
(18:37):
that's investors, you know,insurance, that's another really
critical way.
So you know they're havingthese meetings, you know, based
on finance and invariably thesepeople always want to hear about
sustainability.
They want to know about ourroadmap and in part it's knowing
that we've got a plan but alsoknowing that we're going to be
resilient into the future.
(19:01):
Do we know how we're going toadapt to a changing climate in
New Zealand Globally?
But more pastoral farming here.
So it's become an integraldiscussion for banks and capital
markets, insurance, all of themin terms of what Fonterra's
doing, and I know it's the samefor farmers, like the agribanks
in New Zealand.
They have their own targets andI often ask farmers at a
(19:23):
meeting has your bank managerasked to see your farm
environment plan or your farminsights report, which we
provide them?
And you get these littletentative hands going up, but
it's not because they want tosee the pictures in there.
This is an important part oftheir business.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Risk their book and how do they make sure that
they're resilient, movingforward too, and then further up
the value chain as well, likethe Nestlays, and that it's
affecting them as well?
Oh yeah, oh yeah, very much.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
The reason that they have and you know I'm using
Nestle and Mars as examples inthis but there are many, many
others, and so sometimes farmerskind of roll your eyes when
they hear the Nestlé again, butit's because they're a leader
and they are investing back intofarmers.
So there's leadership andreally positive leadership for
(20:08):
us having them as a customer aswell.
But they have very ambitioustargets, actually more ambitious
than what our roadmap has in itat the moment, and you know
that comes from the similarpressures that are on them.
We had Mars out here recentlyand we had a meeting with a
group of farmers in Cambridgeand it was just a conversation
(20:29):
between Mars and farmers and Iwas so, so nervous.
I was like, oh, my goodness,what's going to happen?
What's going to be said?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Who's going to happen ?
What's?
Speaker 3 (20:35):
going to be said who's going to say what?
Yeah, and it kicked off with afarmer just looking at the head
of sustainability for Mars andsay why are you doing this to us
?
Like why are you doing this?
And he replied because it'sbeing done to us you know you're
not unique in in this space andyou know so.
They're multi-nationals, sothey're going into different
geographies with differentregulatory environments but
different expectations on themof removing their emissions.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
In my.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Connect.
Last week we had the CEO ofFriesland, campinas, speak to,
which was gold, because that wasanother.
Everything that he kind oftalked about on stage was what
Fonterra shareholders areexperiencing, and I think it was
kind of like for farmers.
It's not just all on us, thisis something that Brether and
(21:19):
our colleagues are experiencingall over the world.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yes, and I think often that can feel like that
for farmers.
We very much talk within theboundaries of New Zealand and
this is kind of what's beenforced upon us, but it is nice
to get that kind of globalperspective of what's happening
in other markets and countriesaround the world.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
So, given you are looking towards the future with
your role, what do you see?
What are you optimistic aboutfor the future of New Zealand
dairy?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Firstly, I am incredibly optimistic for the
future of New Zealand dairy andfor Fonterra shareholders in
terms of what we can do and howwe can achieve and how we can be
first in the sustainabilityspace.
This commitment in terms ofemissions is an awesome kind of
step forward in that momentum.
But if you start wrapping thisup with some of our other
(22:08):
advantages that we have and myjob seeing on that global front,
the new pressures coming insustainability and one of those
is nature and biodiversity andregenerative farming that's the
language that some of ourcustomers use for those two
things nature and biodiversityyou think about pasture-based
system compared to a house cowsystem for being the potential
(22:30):
to become nature positive or toincrease its biodiversity.
Well, we're miles ahead in thatrace.
So whilst you think of uslowering emissions but then also
selling that nature-based story, wrapping that up together so
that it really can't be pulledapart and then providing that to
our customers, that becomeslike a real winning formula in
my mind and it's just emerging.
(22:52):
So we do have some customerswith some nature kind of base
targets or some regen ag basetargets not as much emphasis as
the carbon at the moment, butit's really growing because in
terms of the globe and how it'sgoing to deal with climate and
emissions into the future.
Making sure that we increasenature will be a really
(23:12):
important mitigate to it as well, so I'm really excited about
that and how we can kind ofbring that forward.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Perfect.
Just to kind of wrap that lastbit on the regenerative and the
nature.
I can kind of see the naturepositive kind of aspect in terms
of the way we farm in NewZealand.
The regenerative ag alwaysraises a few kind of heckles
amongst sort of the primarysector.
Would you sort of argue thatwe're kind of already largely
regenerative?
You know we farm grass.
(23:40):
We have pretty nature positivesystems already here in New
Zealand.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
We've done ourselves a disservice with the term
regenerative.
People kind of formed opinionsabout it in New Zealand based
off, you know, what they mighthave read in an article or seen
on TV and things like that.
But you know, what I reallyneed farmers to do in this space
is not compare farms within NewZealand.
So you know, this is what I'mdoing in Taranaki, this is what
someone's doing in Southland,but think about how we farm
(24:06):
compared to how people farmglobally.
And we have used a frameworkfrom SAI, which is the
Sustainable AgricultureInitiative, which looks at what
practices would be useful interms of being able to apply
regenerative agriculture in afarm, and they're things like
rotational grazing.
Yeah, exactly, you know,minimal to no tillage.
(24:30):
You know which we have inspades in terms of what happens.
So there's so many practicesthat, as you said, wade, we
already do that tick the box.
And whilst RegenAg meansdifferent things to different
people, it's a language ourcustomers use, or some of our
customers use, to talk aboutnature, and nature positive and
(24:51):
biodiversity and those kinds ofthings.
So we have to be really mindfulof using language customers
want to hear and rememberingwe're comparing ourselves in New
Zealand to the globe, notagainst each other within New
Zealand and I think that's somereally important things.
We've got to stop Regene Ag.
You know people screwing theirnose up when we say it because
(25:13):
it could be really useful to us.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I think there's been some pretty cool messages
throughout this eh, wade.
It's a pleasure having you,charlotte.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
One.
It's been enlightening.
It's probably filled in somegaps for Wade and I with what
we've been thinking along this.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
And Charlotte's brought up some of my negativity
and, you know, raised the level.
You were saying that normally Iget picked on, but it might
have been a bit of you today.
Yeah, it might have been a bitof a swing the other way, so
thanks for helping with that,charlotte?
Speaker 1 (25:37):
No, no worries, anytime, anytime, and I think
we'd like to get you back in thefuture.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
It was bloody good.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Thank you very much, because it's about extension of
knowledge and that's a big partof what we do at Feed for
Thought.
So for you wouldn't believe it,we're in 20 countries.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
This is a little prank.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
And even in Kenya.
So you've gone that far,charlotte.
Today.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Awesome, and so hopefully a bit further.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Fantastic.
So thanks again, and thanks,wade, for your continued support
.
Mate and Bianca behind thescenes, and tune in next time
when we will have Malcolm Ellis,one of Wade's other mates in
this space.
From Charlotte's wife.
This is the first of a two-part series where we're
diving into a crucial topicimpacting our future farm
systems, with the focus ongreenhouse gas emissions.
To kick off part one and helpus navigate this complex issue,
we're thrilled to have with usFonterra's Director of
Sustainability, charlotteRutherford.
Charlotte has a wealth ofexperience in leading
sustainability initiatives andwe're excited to hear her
(00:22):
insights initiatives and we'reexcited to hear her insights.
And make sure you tune in forpart two, with Malcolm Ellis,
fonterra's strategic advisor, onhow farmers can go about
emissions reductions.
So here we go, g'day and welcometo Feed for Thought, a regular
podcast from Pioneer coveringeverything from farm systems to
crops and products and much,much more.
(00:44):
Covering everything from farmsystems to crops and products
and much, much more.
All right, welcome back to Feedfor Thought.
My name's Matt Daly and, asalways, we're trying to deliver
some knowledge to hungry farmersthat are keen on all things
maize, but all things farmsystems, wade.
And so, as I say, wade's here,my old mate, and today we're
actually going to delve into abit of a not a passion, but it's
something you've been lookinginto a lot of late, for us and
(01:06):
for the industry Wade.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Look, it is a real pleasure to have Charlotte
Rutherford on the podcast today.
Welcome, Charlotte.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Thank you, it is a pleasure to be here, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
So can you give us a little bit of background about
your time with Fonterra?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
You've been here a long time, a lifer, a long time,
yeah, I'd say definite lifer.
I have been here just actuallyjust 22 years.
Yeah, just that longer thanI've been married.
Or, yeah, more time than theage of my children.
So Fonterra's been a huge partof my life.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Did you have a stint at anything prior to Fonterra?
Yes, I worked at Dairy NZprevious to that?
And then what was MAF?
So really, of 22 years doesn'tshow my age.
I remember me showing my ageand talking about government
departments like that.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
You don't need to tell us how many years were
those organisations?
No, no, not long months.
Yeah, yeah, Starting in yournappies as well.
Yeah, totally yeah.
So you have been here a longtime, all in roles largely
centred around sustainability.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yes, and been here a long time all in roles largely
centred around sustainability.
Yes, and you know that'sunusual and highly unusual, but
I think that the topic area ofsustainability lent itself to me
building a career at Fonterra.
It's grown so quickly.
You know, 22 years ago we werelargely talking about effluent
compliance and you know that itpales into insignificance for
most of the industry, includingfarmers who are, you know, well
around that, and it's all prettymanaged and things.
(02:29):
But yeah, it's been an areathat's grown a lot and one of my
measures of that is every jobI've had at Fonterra hasn't
existed until I've gone into it.
So you know, that's kind of howit's grown to be a really
integral part of our strategy aswell over those years.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Do you get to write those PDs?
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Maybe one or two.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
What a position to be in.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Nothing like building the bridges you're crossing at.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, brilliant.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
So you touched on environmental compliance there
and one of the messages thatI've been talking with our team
and with farmers is that itfeels like at the moment that
the market drivers around thiswhole environmental
sustainability is moving muchfaster than environmental
compliance.
I would say.
Environmental compliance justseems so slow.
It's got negative connotationsbut in recent times and I'm kind
(03:17):
of thinking in the last sort ofyear or two in particular
noticing this really fast pacedkind of market drive for
sustainably produced products.
You know that's the space youwork in, right.
You're dealing with customersthat are demanding that.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Oh, absolutely, I think you're spot on Wade.
I would totally agree with thatand whilst that is the area
that I'm working in at themoment, 20 years was more in
that New Zealand-facing kind ofregulatory compliance space.
So I think it does show thatreally rapid shift and I think
climate and emissions is a reallife example sitting there for
farmers at the moment, that it'sbeing for Fonterra and its
(03:53):
farmer owners.
It's being much more heavilydriven by our customers and also
financial markets and access tocapital and regulation and
things we're seeing on a globalscale than what may or may not
be happening in New Zealandrelating to climate regulation.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
So, which presents more of the why, I suppose, as
to why we're having to go downthis space.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Very much so.
And at the end of last year,when we announced our climate
roadmap and our scope threetarget, which is largely an
on-farm target, so you know itsits with our farmer owners we
spent, you know, a good 10months going through the why
with farmers, because that wasso important and because we were
in a period, too, in NewZealand when, you know, there
(04:36):
was he Waka Eka Noa and we weretalking about levies and
domestic policy and we needed tospend some time really
explaining why their co-opregardless of what they were
seeing and feeling in NewZealand why their co-op still
needed to kind of push on withthis and what were the reasons
why this was so important to usas a co-op to be addressing
(04:58):
emissions, particularly scopethree ones.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
How are they taking it?
Because regulation is micro andyou're almost talking about
macro forces as to why We've hadthis heavy focus on regulatory,
but you're saying the market orthese forces are bigger.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Well, I would say bigger, and I think that's
probably.
Farmers have taken it reallywell.
Like you know, we were nervous.
A scope three target is huge fora co-op to be announcing, but
it went as well or better thanwe probably could have imagined
and I think that's becausefarmers, they run businesses and
they know that their businesshas customers for the product
(05:35):
that they produce and we havegot real life examples of how
important this is to customersand also that financial angle as
well.
So those are really easy thingsfor them to latch on to and to
think about the resilience oftheir own business in that
context.
So that really helped in termsof the messaging and we went
really quickly from the what iethe target to now it's the how,
(05:58):
what do I actually do on my farm?
To kind of get that underway.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Which might be our next guest.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, absolutely, a nice might be our next guest.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
A nice lead to the next guest, but you're not
getting out of here quite thateasily, shana, unfortunately.
So you talked about access tofunding and kind of financial
drivers, and I know one of thegripes of farmers in particular
is you know what's the value addpart of it for me?
So if we kind of achieve thesetargets and we deliver on what
our customers are after, how dowe get remunerated for that
(06:29):
effort?
What's your response?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
There's a couple of angles to that.
There's the new additionalvalue that is available, but
that's to those that go first,that are the leaders and can
provide to our customers thedairy products that have the
lowest emission footprintassociated with it.
We are meeting Fonterra NewZealand dairy.
We are absolutely in thatleading pack, but for a long
(06:54):
time I think we were leading, wewere at the front, but there
were people catching us.
So we're in the pack and whilstwe can present a really
compelling story to ourcustomers, there's other dairy
companies around the globe thatcan present that one as well.
So we have to be very, verymindful of that.
But that is one thing.
We can extract new value.
You're already seeing thathappen in different ways.
(07:16):
We have a series of projectswith Nestle in New Zealand the
Net Zero Farm down in Taranaki,and then also there's groups of
farmers in Fonterra that areworking in good management
practice and on-farm plantingthat Nestle have put funding
into.
They're really focused onsupporting farmers.
Additionally, if you achievecooperative difference this year
, you get an additional one totwo cents payment from Nestle,
(07:39):
which is a direct reflection ofour low-carbon position.
That is exactly what they havepaid for.
Nestle is not the only customerwe have, mars.
Mars have started GreenerChoices seed-funded Greener
Choices in the stores, which isrewarding farmers that choose
more sustainable products, andwe're talking to both of them
about how do we take it to thenext level in terms of valuing
(08:03):
the reductions farmers are goingto make in terms of emissions
reductions and how we can returnmore value.
But way and above and this isusually not the thing that
farmers necessarily want to hear, but it is our commercial
reality way and above that isthe protection of existing value
.
So if you get a customer thatpurchases a lot from us at the
(08:26):
moment, that's valuable to us asmargin and that's how we return
value to our shareholders.
But if they can get loweremissions milk for a better or
equal price elsewhere in theglobe, then perhaps we lose
access to those customers.
So the big chunk of it isprotecting existing value, but
also my job and very laserfocused on, is also chasing
(08:48):
additional value for farmers.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
And you don't have to possibly go down that because
we don't even know where we'regoing to be, but with consumer
brands being possibly pushed tothe side, is there an increase
in your focus in terms of as westart to trade that milk on a
global scale without thosebrands?
Is that going to mean thatthere's more importance to
understand and be able to marketon our scope through?
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, it's certainly a different discussion, but one
probably across the globe isconsumers want to see lower
emissions product.
You know there's a milliondifferent surveys and they'll do
this and they'll do that.
None of our customers aretelling us at the moment, though
and neither do we see it fromour own consumer brands that
(09:34):
they're going to pay a whole lotmore for it.
So it's going to cost more toproduce it, and we need to work
out how that's going to bespread across the value chain.
And you know, to our customers'credit, they know that it'll
cost them as well, and hence whythey're investing and sending
this money back down the valuechain.
It's not going to be entirelyrecouped just through upping
(09:56):
food costs or end product costsfor consumers.
There's going to be anexpectation over time from
consumers that they can havetheir products at a certain
price point, but also that it islow emissions or it's been
achieved through environmentallyfriendly kind of production
methods.
It's really tough because itjust sounds like it's going to
get more and more expensive tofarm, but there are prizes there
(10:19):
.
We just have to be first and wehave to keep moving to get
those.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Keep ahead of the game as well?
Speaker 2 (10:24):
So are you suggesting that the consumer is going to
have a baseline expectation thatthe product meets these kind of
standards and oh and, by theway, I'm not prepared to pay any
more for it?
Is that in?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
a nutshell yeah, that's quite binary their way.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I'm not prepared to pay any more for it.
Is that in a nutshell?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah, that's quite binary there quite black and
white.
I'm imagining listening to thisin another five years and
someone going.
You don't really know much, doyou?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
That's all right.
They say that about us all thetime.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
I think we have to be pretty realistic about that
because the other big piece ofyou know I've talked a bit about
other dairy companies but ourreal competition is alternatives
you know plant-based proteinsand we're already hearing, you
know, customers talk to us aboutthat.
They want dairy part of theirproducts, part of their value
chain.
That's why they're investing inreductions.
But equally, they have to bemindful of, for them to reach
(11:13):
their really ambitious targets,that they're going to have to
look at alternatives to proteinsand fats that come from
ruminants, because there's amuch smaller footprint when
you're getting it fromplant-based protein or you know,
maybe eventually lab-grownprotein.
So we've got a lot ofcompetition that we have to be
really mindful about.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
And what about our global competitors?
So I'm thinking New Zealand.
Now, if we have, say,inhibitors come in or change of
practices elsewhere, that rateof change and I suppose you've
already answered a little bit ofit we've got to keep ahead,
don't we?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Yeah, so we talk about being leapfrogged, you
know, and I mean we're in a raceand we're fit and we're fast in
the front but others are at ourshoulders and they report.
You know footprints that areequivalent and sometimes lower
than ours, but there isdefinitely the ability for us to
be leapfrogged and passed and anew peloton you know kind of
(12:05):
emerging for where that sits.
And I think that happens interms of we've got to look at
house cows or confined cows.
You know that the feedadditives that there is a power
load of money going into thoseto reduce emissions is going to
work so much better in thatsystem than it is in a
pasture-based system.
So you know they're reallyeffective just after they've
been eaten.
(12:25):
So you know being able to putit into a TMR or a ration that
the cow's eating.
And then you know sort of mostcontinuous reduction as opposed
for us.
You know you might be doing abit of in-sheet feeding.
You're getting a bit of abenefit for some time after that
, but it is difficulteconomically to make that stack
up.
You know how much that additivecould cost for the reduction
(12:46):
that it could achieve.
Pastoral dairy farming isunique at scale, like we do here
in New Zealand, and so we haveto be mindful that a lot of the
R&D dollars are going intosolutions that meet the needs of
housed cow systems as opposedto pastoral-based systems.
So that's why it's importantwe've got things like AgriZero
that's really looking for thosemethane reductions from
(13:08):
pastoral-based systems Is itfair to say that there's a high
probability that we'll getleapfrogged.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
You know just from everything that you've just said
there so you've got's cows, theadaptation it's white and
negative too.
Hey, well, look, I'm justtrying to ask all the questions
that I'm sure listeners will betuning in to yeah, well done
mate.
So it kind of feels likethere's a fairly high likelihood
that we could get leapfrogged.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Yeah, it's kind of happening at the moment.
So products like Bovia, whichis a feed additive that's used
in Europe and just been approvedin the US as well, that work
really well in house cow systemsfor getting reductions, and if
you see countries andgeographies like the US, the
(13:53):
government will subsidise thesethings happening in farms and
subsidise heavily, as they aredoing for biodigesters and
things that will also lowerfarmers' emissions.
So we have that additionalchallenge as well that we don't
operate in a country wherefarmers are heavily subsidised
to do these things on their farm.
That's made us incrediblyefficient because so much of the
change has come through justthe nous and expertise from
(14:16):
farmers.
But it is another challenge forus.
But it's not all doom and gloomWade's dominating here, maybe
all negative.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
There are some massive.
She started out earlier sayingthat, charlotte, you were saying
that sometimes you're a littlecynical.
I feel like I'm the one herethat's getting.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah, there are some massive advantages to pastoral
dairy farming that confinedsystems can never compete with,
and that's over and above.
Well, never say never.
It would be very challenged tocompete with, and I'm thinking
about things about nature intothe future.
That it's not all challenged.
(14:52):
There is a lot of opportunityfor us in there as well.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
So that's the marketing side right, and so I
suppose that looks towards thefuture like let's go 2030,
that's where a lot ofopportunity for us in there as
well.
So that's the marketing sideright and I suppose that looks
towards the future like let's go2030, that's where a lot of
these targets are, or evenbeyond.
What are some of the factorsthat might come into play?
I suppose that are going toimpact Fonterra and farm systems
.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Yeah, this is definitely one for Malcolm to go
deep into.
But our target is it's a 30%intensity reduction to 2030, and
it's broken down into fourparts.
And it's you know, just to bereally clear, that 30% is a
co-op wide target.
It is not an individual farmtarget by any stretch of the
(15:31):
imagination.
And then you know it's brokeninto four parts.
One of that is a 7% reductionthat we think can be achieved
through increased efficiency onfarms.
So farmers doing what they'redoing, but doing it better and a
little bit faster in terms ofbeing more productive, more
efficient and more profitable.
Again, that 7% is a co-op target, so some farmers will be able
(15:56):
to do way more, some may do less.
You know it's going to be theadoption curve there's going to
be.
You know, people have said tome oh, it's going to be the
laggards that are going toachieve that.
In reality, it's usually thetop performers that just keep
going and keep going and keepgoing.
So I just, you know, am lookingfor that kind of performance
improvement across the board,across the co-op, and that will
(16:17):
achieve that 7%.
There's also a 7% in thereabout novel technology.
So that's really important toachieving the target and that's
part of our investment intoAgriZero, along with all the
other organisations and theCrown that have put the money in
there, because we are relyingon a 7% reduction that comes
from the use of new noveltechnologies on farms.
(16:39):
So we need Wayne McNee and theteam at AgriZero to come up with
those and then we need to finda way to support farmers through
implementing those out to 2030.
And you're right, there's morework to be done after that.
We have a net zero target to2050.
Actually, no, it's not a target.
I take that back.
Lawyers will be all over me.
It's an ambition.
(17:02):
You can only have a target whenyou know exactly how you're
going to achieve it and whatyou're going to do, and we don't
know how we will get to thatnear zero by 2050.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Must be.
I mean for your role must be.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Terrifying.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yeah, I was going to say scary, but you're
effectively tasked with what andhow to get there.
Yeah, it is, it is.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
And bearing in mind, it's one thing to be tasked with
kind of having those plans andthen convincing you know a, a
CEO or even a board that thatwas the right way to go.
But we're a co-op, so it'sdeveloping those up and then
convincing the owners that thisis right for them, for their
businesses, for their capitalinvestment in the co-op and
Malcolm will touch on this more.
(17:43):
But that intergenerationalresilience moving forward, it's
like having, you know, 8,000bosses.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, yeah, and you're answerable to them at
every round of meetings.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Oh, yeah, yeah, and you're answerable to them at
every round of meetings.
Oh, yeah, yeah very much so.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah, I've got one more key question from me, and
it's one that you raised a weeway back in this podcast.
You mentioned access to fundingas being because we talked
about value, and so does it meanthat the cost of capital is
cheaper if you're hitting someof these targets?
Does it mean it's easy toaccess?
What does it mean in a businesskind of context?
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Look, I think it means a little bit of everything
, of just what you talked aboutand you know the capital markets
and treasury team in Fonterra.
They were the people that I sawat the Christmas do once a year
and waved at them.
We had nothing to do with eachother.
Sustainability and capitalmarkets, now the one area of the
business that I'm in constantcontact with.
So, whether that's turning upto rating agency audits, whether
(18:37):
that's investors, you know,insurance, that's another really
critical way.
So you know they're havingthese meetings, you know, based
on finance and invariably thesepeople always want to hear about
sustainability.
They want to know about ourroadmap and in part it's knowing
that we've got a plan but alsoknowing that we're going to be
resilient into the future.
(19:01):
Do we know how we're going toadapt to a changing climate in
New Zealand Globally?
But more pastoral farming here.
So it's become an integraldiscussion for banks and capital
markets, insurance, all of themin terms of what Fonterra's
doing, and I know it's the samefor farmers, like the agribanks
in New Zealand.
They have their own targets andI often ask farmers at a
(19:23):
meeting has your bank managerasked to see your farm
environment plan or your farminsights report, which we
provide them?
And you get these littletentative hands going up, but
it's not because they want tosee the pictures in there.
This is an important part oftheir business.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Risk their book and how do they make sure that
they're resilient, movingforward too, and then further up
the value chain as well, likethe Nestlays, and that it's
affecting them as well?
Oh yeah, oh yeah, very much.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
The reason that they have and you know I'm using
Nestle and Mars as examples inthis but there are many, many
others, and so sometimes farmerskind of roll your eyes when
they hear the Nestlé again, butit's because they're a leader
and they are investing back intofarmers.
So there's leadership andreally positive leadership for
(20:08):
us having them as a customer aswell.
But they have very ambitioustargets, actually more ambitious
than what our roadmap has in itat the moment, and you know
that comes from the similarpressures that are on them.
We had Mars out here recentlyand we had a meeting with a
group of farmers in Cambridgeand it was just a conversation
(20:29):
between Mars and farmers and Iwas so, so nervous.
I was like, oh, my goodness,what's going to happen?
What's going to be said?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Who's going to happen ?
What's?
Speaker 3 (20:35):
going to be said who's going to say what?
Yeah, and it kicked off with afarmer just looking at the head
of sustainability for Mars andsay why are you doing this to us
?
Like why are you doing this?
And he replied because it'sbeing done to us you know you're
not unique in in this space andyou know so.
They're multi-nationals, sothey're going into different
geographies with differentregulatory environments but
different expectations on themof removing their emissions.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
In my.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Connect.
Last week we had the CEO ofFriesland, campinas, speak to,
which was gold, because that wasanother.
Everything that he kind oftalked about on stage was what
Fonterra shareholders areexperiencing, and I think it was
kind of like for farmers.
It's not just all on us, thisis something that Brether and
(21:19):
our colleagues are experiencingall over the world.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yes, and I think often that can feel like that
for farmers.
We very much talk within theboundaries of New Zealand and
this is kind of what's beenforced upon us, but it is nice
to get that kind of globalperspective of what's happening
in other markets and countriesaround the world.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
So, given you are looking towards the future with
your role, what do you see?
What are you optimistic aboutfor the future of New Zealand
dairy?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Firstly, I am incredibly optimistic for the
future of New Zealand dairy andfor Fonterra shareholders in
terms of what we can do and howwe can achieve and how we can be
first in the sustainabilityspace.
This commitment in terms ofemissions is an awesome kind of
step forward in that momentum.
But if you start wrapping thisup with some of our other
(22:08):
advantages that we have and myjob seeing on that global front,
the new pressures coming insustainability and one of those
is nature and biodiversity andregenerative farming that's the
language that some of ourcustomers use for those two
things nature and biodiversityyou think about pasture-based
system compared to a house cowsystem for being the potential
(22:30):
to become nature positive or toincrease its biodiversity.
Well, we're miles ahead in thatrace.
So whilst you think of uslowering emissions but then also
selling that nature-based story, wrapping that up together so
that it really can't be pulledapart and then providing that to
our customers, that becomeslike a real winning formula in
my mind and it's just emerging.
(22:52):
So we do have some customerswith some nature kind of base
targets or some regen ag basetargets not as much emphasis as
the carbon at the moment, butit's really growing because in
terms of the globe and how it'sgoing to deal with climate and
emissions into the future.
Making sure that we increasenature will be a really
(23:12):
important mitigate to it as well, so I'm really excited about
that and how we can kind ofbring that forward.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Perfect.
Just to kind of wrap that lastbit on the regenerative and the
nature.
I can kind of see the naturepositive kind of aspect in terms
of the way we farm in NewZealand.
The regenerative ag alwaysraises a few kind of heckles
amongst sort of the primarysector.
Would you sort of argue thatwe're kind of already largely
regenerative?
You know we farm grass.
(23:40):
We have pretty nature positivesystems already here in New
Zealand.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
We've done ourselves a disservice with the term
regenerative.
People kind of formed opinionsabout it in New Zealand based
off, you know, what they mighthave read in an article or seen
on TV and things like that.
But you know, what I reallyneed farmers to do in this space
is not compare farms within NewZealand.
So you know, this is what I'mdoing in Taranaki, this is what
someone's doing in Southland,but think about how we farm
(24:06):
compared to how people farmglobally.
And we have used a frameworkfrom SAI, which is the
Sustainable AgricultureInitiative, which looks at what
practices would be useful interms of being able to apply
regenerative agriculture in afarm, and they're things like
rotational grazing.
Yeah, exactly, you know,minimal to no tillage.
(24:30):
You know which we have inspades in terms of what happens.
So there's so many practicesthat, as you said, wade, we
already do that tick the box.
And whilst RegenAg meansdifferent things to different
people, it's a language ourcustomers use, or some of our
customers use, to talk aboutnature, and nature positive and
(24:51):
biodiversity and those kinds ofthings.
So we have to be really mindfulof using language customers
want to hear and rememberingwe're comparing ourselves in New
Zealand to the globe, notagainst each other within New
Zealand and I think that's somereally important things.
We've got to stop Regene Ag.
You know people screwing theirnose up when we say it because
(25:13):
it could be really useful to us.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I think there's been some pretty cool messages
throughout this eh, wade.
It's a pleasure having you,charlotte.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
One.
It's been enlightening.
It's probably filled in somegaps for Wade and I with what
we've been thinking along this.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
And Charlotte's brought up some of my negativity
and, you know, raised the level.
You were saying that normally Iget picked on, but it might
have been a bit of you today.
Yeah, it might have been a bitof a swing the other way, so
thanks for helping with that,charlotte?
Speaker 1 (25:37):
No, no worries, anytime, anytime, and I think
we'd like to get you back in thefuture.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
It was bloody good.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Thank you very much, because it's about extension of
knowledge and that's a big partof what we do at Feed for
Thought.
So for you wouldn't believe it,we're in 20 countries.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
This is a little prank.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
And even in Kenya.
So you've gone that far,charlotte.
Today.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Awesome, and so hopefully a bit further.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Fantastic.
So thanks again, and thanks,wade, for your continued support
.
Mate and Bianca behind thescenes, and tune in next time
when we will have Malcolm Ellis,one of Wade's other mates in
this space.
From Charlotte's wife.
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