July 14, 2023 • 24 mins
Special guest Pastor Andy Searles joins the FeedSheep Podcast for Part 2 to contrast the "you have heard it said" and the "but I tell you" statements of Jesus in Matthew 5. This 3-part series may free you from generational bondage that is keeping you from thriving. #ThriveinChrist
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Episode Transcript
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Dan Schilling (00:07):
Hey, welcome to the FeedSheep podcast where we
help you hear God's voice,follow his lead and thrive as a
disciple. I'm Dan Schilling, andI'll be one of your guides. Now
let's get into today's topictoday. Here in the studio, I
have a good friend, Pastor AndySearles, who joined me as our
first guest here live face toface in the feed sheep studio.
(00:28):
This was a powerful discussion,we had some challenges just to
get this one recorded. But Ibelieve it's gonna be a great
encouragement for you. So Iwould encourage you, as you're
on this journey to hear, followand thrive. This may be an
episode just for you. Today.
Hey, welcome to FeedSheeppodcast. We're here again in the
studio. This is the first daywe've shot in the studio, we
(00:49):
just shot part one of this.
Wait, what? And we're talkingabout that a little bit more
detail? What does that mean? Ifyou didn't get episode, part one
of this episode, you're gonnawant to tune back in to that.
But this day has been achallenge. We've been here for
about three hours. And we feellike part of that challenge. I
(01:10):
was just telling one of theother guys here in the building
about the challenge. Sometimesthe technology knows things I
really feel like it's it's beenan attack. And I think there is
an attack on us when we'retrying to bring truth that's
going to set people free. Imean, absolutely generational
freedom from areas. And I thinkit's what Jesus was trying to
(01:31):
deliver to the people that we'relooking at here in Matthew five
again. And so let's just teethis up. Again, let's give a
little bit of a recap
Andy Searles (01:40):
speak to that first day, if I can, one of the
things that I'm learning in thisseason of ministry is that
whenever we can open our heartto be vulnerable about what's
going on. The Gospel shows up,yes. And so the enemy will do
all he can to prevent us openingour heart. So we live in
technology problems, right? Itwould have been very easy to get
(02:01):
frustrated and angry to computerbut we get frustrated and anger
angry that blocks are hot,right? And as soon as we can
open the hot, and the gospelshows up, Jesus shows up. So I
hope that as we continue ourconversation, as was the last
one that we can open our heartsbefore God, because as we do,
(02:21):
Jesus shows up.
Dan Schilling (02:22):
Yeah. Well, Andy, you that wasn't your question.
But as before, again, you'vebeen a pastor, you've been
serving, leading folks, as ashepherd, we might say, you
know, caring for sheep. Andthat's the essence of what we're
here to do today, again, is toencourage you, as a sheep, Jesus
says, in John 1027, My sheephear my voice and know them, and
(02:47):
they follow Me. And so the goalof what we want to get
accomplished today is to helpyou hear His voice, follow his
lead, thrive as a disciple. AndI believe what we're talking
about today is going to helppeople thrive, even though it's
not always easy. But I believeit is worth following what Jesus
is going to have for us today.
So let's tee it up again. Let'slook back a little bit but
(03:08):
didn't.
Andy Searles (03:10):
Yeah, so. So the idea is that we have these Wait,
watch more WaitWhat moments inChristian discipleship, right?
Because we think that oh, beinga Christian is ABCD. We check
the box, we say yes, I'm doingwell. But then Jesus shows up,
and he completely changes ourexpectations. Right. And we have
this way, what moment when we'restunned by the beauty of what
(03:35):
Jesus says, as opposed to whatwe thought we expected. And
we're living in a world wherepeople are hearing a lot of
things thinking this is what itmeans to follow Jesus. But then
Jesus, as he did to thedisciples around the Sermon on
the Mount, says, But I tell you,and so this wait, what helped me
(03:58):
understand moment rests on thistension between you have heard
it said, and but I tell you, andsheep who are listening to the
shepherd, are listening to theparts of Scripture, where Jesus
says, But I tell you, and so,last episode, go back listen to
(04:20):
it. We talked about two of theseWaitWhat moments. One was no
murder, or that said, but Jesussays, don't even get angry. And
we're like, wait, what? And thenhe says, You've heard it said,
don't commit adultery. And we'relike, check that box. Haven't
done that. He says, But I tellyou don't even look lustfully at
(04:42):
someone we're like, wait, what?
All of a sudden I'm not as selfrighteous as I thought I'm not
as innocent as I am. Becausethis WaitWhat truth of Jesus has
changed us. And I want to lookat three more. Wait, what's yes
today?
Dan Schilling (04:57):
Well, I just thinking about I didn't mention
This last episode is i Whenprocessing our show talking
about our lamb methodology, whatdo we want to learn? How do we
apply was that we're going to bemultiplied in and through us.
And then what are we becoming?
And so as I was thinking aboutthis, that really what happens
when I'm no longer murderingsomeone as I become a forgiver,
(05:18):
right. And we know what God'sword talks about that if we
don't forgive, that he won'tforgive us. And so I don't want
to walk in unforgiveness,knowing that I'm going to be
held to a standard of not beinggiven. And then the other thing
here is in the in the lust is Ireally want to be come faithful.
I want to be, I don't want tohave my eyes looking where I
(05:42):
shouldn't remember a few yearsago, we talked about doing a job
covenant and essentially said,you know, if I look upon a
woman, you know, let this manhad my wife and you think, what,
wait, what Yeah, like that myheart really be pure before
Lord, I don't even want to, Idon't want to try to fulfill the
desires of my flesh. And evenlook,
Andy Searles (06:05):
I love him. So we talked about how some of that is
by viewing the objects of lust,not as cheapened people that we
can control but people who aregreat value, but also we got to
see ourselves of great value,right? I am a man made in the
image of God created to love.
Why would I stoop to lust andcontrol and commodify. And so as
(06:27):
we fight, lust, and we seek tolet these truths of Jesus sink
deeper and deeper into our soul,then part of that does revolve
around how we value others. Yes.
But it also revolves around howwe see us as children.
Dan Schilling (06:49):
Well, I want to get to these next ones. They're,
they're really good. And wecontinue to say, how does this
align with the things we've beentalking about here over the last
several episodes about the issueof pride? And how each one of
these other ones you brought tomy attention? Like, wow, lust
really is an aspect of pridebecause I want what I want. And
(07:09):
we're gonna even see a nice, Ithink, to even some more ways,
Andy Searles (07:13):
it's funny that isn't it? There is a consistent
theme through scripture, right?
Yeah. Pride, bad humility. Good.
Yes.
Dan Schilling (07:21):
So let's get into it. Let's look at this first one
here. Matthew five. Yeah. So
Andy Searles (07:25):
this first one today, third one, in a little
study this wait one moment,wait, what moment? Matthew 533.
Again, you have heard it said,right. And again, whenever we
hear, you have heard it said,you know, he's talking about the
voices around us, notnecessarily bad. But just not
(07:49):
the deeper, fuller, richer lifethat Jesus offers. You've heard
it said, to our ancestors, youmust not break your oath, and
you must keep your oath to theLord. And again, we're like, Oh,
that makes sense. It's importantthat we kind of keep our
promises. And then Jesus says,but you must, but I tell you,
sorry. Don't take an oath atall.
Dan Schilling (08:14):
Tell me more. It doesn't make sense makes me
pause for a moment. Right? So
Andy Searles (08:17):
because we think oath is a good thing, like a
promise. But really, an oath issomething that we add to a
promise, again, pridefully tomake ourselves seem more
trustworthy, right? So forinstance, a young child would
come up to you. And you know, wesay you tell the truth. They
(08:40):
say, Yeah, I'm telling thetruth. I swear on my
grandmother's grave. You heardthat? Yeah, I don't even know
what that means. Right. But wechoose to kind of swear by
things because we think it addsweight to the truth that was
saying, right? So in thisculture to these disciples, and
(09:01):
to this crowd, right, they hadheard given oath, it's a good
thing to give an oath, right? Soyou'll piece them back it up,
back it up and back it up FENSAin fencin, and said, right, but
Jesus said, that ain't workingfor you. Because the more you
try to protect your truth,right, the more that actual
(09:25):
truth is diminished. Right?
We've all met people like that,right? Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't
want to pick on anybody. But butyou know, if you're going to,
you're going to buy a car,right? Yeah. This is the best
deal you'll ever have. Ever,ever. Right? You can look on
this site. Trust me. Yeah. Andit'll be the best deal ever. Or
(09:47):
you can go this place and it'sas low as we can go. Right. And
it's like as soon as they startto put these oaths around the
promise The Promise loses itsvalue. Yes, it does. And they'd
heard for years and years backup, back up, back up your
promises, fencing and fencingand fencing. That was getting so
(10:09):
corrupt, that Jesus says, I'mgoing to tell you don't keep it.
Any later goes on in the samesection to say, but let your Yes
be Yes. And your no be No, whathe's saying is that if we are
living with integrity, we don'tneed to add anything to our
integrity, or honesty is enough.
(10:36):
You've heard it said, don'tbreak your oath. Yes. But I tell
you, if you live with integrity,this is my interpretation. You
don't need to take an oath atall. This is either by heaven
because it's God's throne Earthbecause it's God's footstool or
for stole or Jerusalem, becausethe CEO a great key. That's what
people were swearing by. Yes.
Oh, I swear by Jerusalem. Iswear by Heaven. Right? I swear
(10:59):
by. Right? Yeah. And it's like,what are you? What are you
doing? Why do you need tojustify? In fact, you're right,
the next verse is actually quitefunny. So do not swear by your
head. Right? Because you cannotmake a single hair, white or
black. Right. And I think whatJesus is saying here is, he's
just not that powerful. That'sright, right. You know, who are
(11:23):
you to make these outrageouspromises on your truth? Because
you can't even change the colorof your hair. I mean, over a
period of years, we're both onon a good track to do that. But
if I said, Hey, I want my headgo back to being brown. I don't
have the power to do that.
Right. So why would we swear bythings that are powerless, that
(11:47):
we are powerless to control?
When really the most powerfulthing about us? Is our
integrity? Yes. And word. Right.
You have heard it said, keep anoath. Build a fence around your
promises. I swear by this, like,this is the best deal ever. You
won't find it we had it. Jesus.
Forget about the padding becausethe padding actually diminishes
(12:07):
your promise. Yes. Let your Yesbe Yes. And your no be no.
Right. And that's how we'resupposed to
Dan Schilling (12:17):
look, when it's the other part of that. Verse
37. Here says anything morecomes from the evil one.
Anything else beyond?
Andy Searles (12:28):
Yes. Right?
Because we know that thecharacter of the evil one is to
create chaos and confusion.
Right? Whenever there is chaosand confusion in your life,
right? You can trace that backto the enemy trying to distract
you so he can destroy you. Butit's what he does. Yes, it's
what he does, right? So thesefences that we put around these
(12:49):
holes that we take, oh, I swearby this or if this doesn't
happen to Pinky promise. MeYeah, right. Yeah. Right. It's
like copper fingers of I, youknow, I don't know. If we create
this chaos around the promises,then the enemy can have a field
day. But if we just honest. Yep.
Nope. Yes, there's not muchwiggle room for the enemy to
(13:12):
manipulate. And I think I thinkit's important to realize,
because we do live in this verydefensive culture where we feel
we need to defend ourselves orjustify ourselves. I think it's
important to note that sayingyes, or saying no, is a complete
sentence. Right? If you said,No, you want to come back and
(13:34):
spend the whole day with youtomorrow, I can say no. I don't
need to justify why. Right?
Because every extra excuse Igive you right, creates
opportunity for confusion andchaos, and distrust and
mistrust. Which is where thedevil does his best work. So
(13:54):
yes, but yes and no, be No,let's be honest. We don't need
to pad the truth. Because thetruth itself is what sets our
relationships.
Dan Schilling (14:03):
Yes. I think about my own parenting journey
here and the conviction. Andwhen you start thinking about
how many times when our kids askus to do something, yeah. And
they say, Well, yeah, well, letme think about it, or Yeah.
Well, you know, I said, maybe,and how many times in not just
(14:29):
relationships with my childrenor with my wife or with those
that I work with? Am I reallynot walking in integrity? Yeah,
because I don't want anyone tohurt their feelings or I didn't
want to
Andy Searles (14:45):
know it's good to it's good to think through,
right. It's good to have reason.
But we don't need to pad thetruth. Right. The truth speaks
for itself.
Dan Schilling (14:53):
Yes. And where we think that we're protecting
someone else really everprotecting ourselves which we
talk about pride. Like, I don'twant to look bad. I don't want
to be the bad guy. I don't wantto, you know. And yet, what
Jesus again, I think is tryingto draw us into in this is to
(15:13):
get that last line to me is sothat anything more comes from
the evil one, right? It's a it'sa it's a way of access, we're
just inviting him in likes it tobring chaos. And so once we lose
that trust, the reason why Ihave to keep swearing by all
this other stuff is because,well, you didn't do it. You
(15:34):
didn't do it. You didn't do it.
Well, yeah, but this time byJerusalem, and my head and my
pinky and like, wait a minute,you, you should have just like
just done it. First time. Yeah.
And so for some of us today, aswe're listening, and we got to
reflect them. Sometimes theyjust let them look back at
myself and say, Is there areasin my life today Holy Spirit
(15:55):
that you're trying to show me?
Where I'm not walking in thistruth? Letting Yes, be yes and
no. Because? If not, then I'messentially I'm inviting the the
devil into the things that aregoing on around me. And what's
it, it's creating chaos andanxiety and stress? And I'm not
I'm not thriving, the goal forus and as far as thriving or not
thriving, one of the reason whymight not be thriving is because
(16:16):
this is not being applied.
Andy Searles (16:20):
Because Because chaos. Right and confusion
suffocates us. Yes. Right? Itjust kind of constricts our body
so that we can't thrive. Yes.
But a simple yes. Simple. No.
Done with. Yes.
Dan Schilling (16:35):
Well, let's dig in on this one. And then let's
go to the next one. If
Andy Searles (16:38):
we wait, what?
Wait, what? Wait, what? Wait,what? Ouch. All right. Second
one today, you have heard itsaid, again. I did not realize
this phrase was used so manytimes. In the Sermon on the
Mount, right? You have heard itsaid, An eye for an eye, a tooth
for a tooth. But I tell you whatto listen to the eye tells you
(16:59):
don't resist an evil doer. Now,we've got to be careful here,
right? Because every time Ipreached, there's this little
checklist of questions I gothrough. And one of them is Am I
being clear on what the passageis not saying? Right? Tell me
(17:20):
more? Because that's asimportant, as am I being clear
on what the passage is saying?
Right? So let me just be clearhere. What this passage is not
saying is that it's okay. To letan evil do or keep doing evil
things to you. Right? Yes.
That's not what Jesus is sayinghe right. And so if we are in an
(17:42):
abusive situation, an abusiverelationship, if there is
someone who is continuing tomanipulate us or take advantage
of us, right, that must bestopped. That is wrong. That is
not what Jesus is saying here.
Yes. Right. So just to kind ofclarify that you've heard it
(18:04):
said, An eye for an eye, a toothfor tooth, what he's talking
about here, was this kind of allof, of revenge. Yes, right. And
this eye for an eye, tooth fortooth, this philosophy was
actually kind of given by God togovernments. Right? That when
they rule, and as they sought tofind justice, that this was a
(18:26):
foundational principle for them.
And it kind of makes sense,right? If someone's wronged you
there needs to be somediscipline retribution. Yes.
Right. But the problem in thistime, and among those that Jesus
was speaking, is that people aretaking this eye for an eye tooth
for a tooth personally. And sothey were taking vengeance upon
themselves. Right. And again,when that happens, it's causes
(18:48):
chaos, and violence and anarchy.
And it takes us away from notjust being a civil society, but
from being the people that Godcauses to right. You've heard it
said and I for I seek revenge.
But I tell you Don't resist anevil doer. I think we need the
(19:09):
other examples to kind ofunderstand this. He goes on the
contrary, if someone slaps youon your right cheek, turn the
other cheek to him. Right. Let'snot stand there and get beaten
up. Right? What Jesus is sayinghere was this slap on the right
cheek, right? If we're sittinglike this, and I'm gonna slap
you on the right cheek. I gottause the back of my hand to do
(19:29):
it. Yes. The back of the handwas an insult. It was an
affront. Right. So Jesus issaying, when you are insulted,
don't respond with insult. Man,how hard is that? To not want
to? Yeah, give you the back?
Yeah. Then you're sure it'sugly. Yeah, right. Right. Right.
(19:49):
Yeah. Right. What's your naturalresponse? Well, look at you,
your shirt is no better. Right?
And it just perpetuates and itgrows and it grows and it grows.
And Jesus says hey, whensomeone's So you don't feed it.
Don't let it escalate that a deescalate. Right? So the one who
wants to sue you and take awayyour sure lamb have your coat as
well. Your coat was the mostvaluable thing for me that they
(20:12):
own. Right? They would sleep onit, it would keep them warm,
they could loan it out if theywanted a little bit of money,
right? Someone was only askingfor the UnderSheriff. But Jesus
says no matter what someonewants to steal from you, right?
Don't be a jerk and want tosteal back. Right? Break that by
being generous. Yes. Right.
(20:33):
Because there's something in thenature of generosity that
changes our heart away from itsnatural inclination, and turns
us towards the kind of peoplethat God wants us to be. And
then he gives us this, thisthird illustration, we know this
one, as well, if anyone forcesyou to go one mile go with him,
too. And this was all about thepostal system that was set up by
(20:56):
the Romans, right? And everymile they had these little
refreshments, stations, right.
But if the refreshment stationwasn't there, where they could
get a glass of water andsomething to eat, as they went
about delivering their theirmail, than they could legally
compel someone to do it, thenext mile for them, right, and
(21:18):
it was the heart, man, this issuch a hassle. I don't want to
do that. Who are you to tell mewhat would you say don't grumble
at that, see as an opportunityand go and go a little bit
further as well. Right. So Ithink in this WaitWhat moment
that the disciples in the crowdhad to experience Jesus was
saying, there is a better waythan the way and it's a way of
(21:42):
humility. It's a way thatdeescalate rather than
escalates, right? It's a waythat loves back generously,
rather than fights backselfishly.
Dan Schilling (21:57):
Yes. Well, and I, again, the mirror gets a little
close to me, and I'm apickleball player I love
Oklahoma started playingpickleball. And there's a system
of how paddles are put up. Andso And there's, you know, you
play at certain levels in thecertain times i plays at a one
(22:17):
level and so he has to play atthat level to play well. Some
times some folk come in theredon't play at that level, and so
it's aggravating. So I get kindof like her. So I was playing
with a lady who's not play sowell. But she's very outspoken
and. And so at the end, we getbeat, and then I come over and
(22:38):
instead of putting my pedalbeside hers and the losers, I
went ahead put mine on the otherside, because I didn't want to
continue to play. And I don'twant to lose my composure. Like,
and so she starts chewing on me.
What do you think you are Youthink you're better? No. I'm
just I'm just,I'm just trying to mix it up.
Yeah, I'm just trying toYeah, cuz I don't want to insult
you. I don't want to bewhatever. But you know, you
(22:59):
really shouldn't be playingtoday. But I don't want to have
whatever I'm just gonna movequietly, she starts making a
scene. And she lived rent freein my head the rest of the time,
because I'm like, She's overhere, bad mouthing me and these
people and like, I played withanother round. They're like,
they wouldn't even talk to melike, like,
Oh, God, what do I do? You wantto escalate a fight back? And I
(23:22):
could tell you that you do.
And yet in some in AI, what cameto mind is what you just said
just a little bit ago, about,you know, essentially that
hurting people hurt others. Buttell that line again, what you
were just telling me, because Ithink it connects here. I know,
it's the next one too. But justlet's talk about
Andy Searles (23:44):
now you put me on the spot. My memory doesn't work
well. Because I think I thinkwhat we're talking about was
every portrayed. Yes. First ofall,
Dan Schilling (23:56):
we're going to take a break right here and what
that last line that Pastor Andyjust share that every
perpetrator was first victim wasa powerful revelation. And it
may be for you as well. So we'regoing to pick up this
conversation again. In the nextepisode, you're not gonna want
to miss this. This was somepowerful truth. Faster, handy
(24:17):
shared. So thanks for joiningthe FeedSheep podcast. See you
again next time. Bless you.
Hey, welcome to the FeedSheep podcast where we
help you hear God's voice,follow his lead and thrive as a
disciple. I'm Dan Schilling, andI'll be one of your guides. Now
let's get into today's topictoday. Here in the studio, I
have a good friend, Pastor AndySearles, who joined me as our
first guest here live face toface in the feed sheep studio.
(00:28):
This was a powerful discussion,we had some challenges just to
get this one recorded. But Ibelieve it's gonna be a great
encouragement for you. So Iwould encourage you, as you're
on this journey to hear, followand thrive. This may be an
episode just for you. Today.
Hey, welcome to FeedSheeppodcast. We're here again in the
studio. This is the first daywe've shot in the studio, we
(00:49):
just shot part one of this.
Wait, what? And we're talkingabout that a little bit more
detail? What does that mean? Ifyou didn't get episode, part one
of this episode, you're gonnawant to tune back in to that.
But this day has been achallenge. We've been here for
about three hours. And we feellike part of that challenge. I
(01:10):
was just telling one of theother guys here in the building
about the challenge. Sometimesthe technology knows things I
really feel like it's it's beenan attack. And I think there is
an attack on us when we'retrying to bring truth that's
going to set people free. Imean, absolutely generational
freedom from areas. And I thinkit's what Jesus was trying to
(01:31):
deliver to the people that we'relooking at here in Matthew five
again. And so let's just teethis up. Again, let's give a
little bit of a recap
Andy Searles (01:40):
speak to that first day, if I can, one of the
things that I'm learning in thisseason of ministry is that
whenever we can open our heartto be vulnerable about what's
going on. The Gospel shows up,yes. And so the enemy will do
all he can to prevent us openingour heart. So we live in
technology problems, right? Itwould have been very easy to get
(02:01):
frustrated and angry to computerbut we get frustrated and anger
angry that blocks are hot,right? And as soon as we can
open the hot, and the gospelshows up, Jesus shows up. So I
hope that as we continue ourconversation, as was the last
one that we can open our heartsbefore God, because as we do,
(02:21):
Jesus shows up.
Dan Schilling (02:22):
Yeah. Well, Andy, you that wasn't your question.
But as before, again, you'vebeen a pastor, you've been
serving, leading folks, as ashepherd, we might say, you
know, caring for sheep. Andthat's the essence of what we're
here to do today, again, is toencourage you, as a sheep, Jesus
says, in John 1027, My sheephear my voice and know them, and
(02:47):
they follow Me. And so the goalof what we want to get
accomplished today is to helpyou hear His voice, follow his
lead, thrive as a disciple. AndI believe what we're talking
about today is going to helppeople thrive, even though it's
not always easy. But I believeit is worth following what Jesus
is going to have for us today.
So let's tee it up again. Let'slook back a little bit but
(03:08):
didn't.
Andy Searles (03:10):
Yeah, so. So the idea is that we have these Wait,
watch more WaitWhat moments inChristian discipleship, right?
Because we think that oh, beinga Christian is ABCD. We check
the box, we say yes, I'm doingwell. But then Jesus shows up,
and he completely changes ourexpectations. Right. And we have
this way, what moment when we'restunned by the beauty of what
(03:35):
Jesus says, as opposed to whatwe thought we expected. And
we're living in a world wherepeople are hearing a lot of
things thinking this is what itmeans to follow Jesus. But then
Jesus, as he did to thedisciples around the Sermon on
the Mount, says, But I tell you,and so this wait, what helped me
(03:58):
understand moment rests on thistension between you have heard
it said, and but I tell you, andsheep who are listening to the
shepherd, are listening to theparts of Scripture, where Jesus
says, But I tell you, and so,last episode, go back listen to
(04:20):
it. We talked about two of theseWaitWhat moments. One was no
murder, or that said, but Jesussays, don't even get angry. And
we're like, wait, what? And thenhe says, You've heard it said,
don't commit adultery. And we'relike, check that box. Haven't
done that. He says, But I tellyou don't even look lustfully at
(04:42):
someone we're like, wait, what?
All of a sudden I'm not as selfrighteous as I thought I'm not
as innocent as I am. Becausethis WaitWhat truth of Jesus has
changed us. And I want to lookat three more. Wait, what's yes
today?
Dan Schilling (04:57):
Well, I just thinking about I didn't mention
This last episode is i Whenprocessing our show talking
about our lamb methodology, whatdo we want to learn? How do we
apply was that we're going to bemultiplied in and through us.
And then what are we becoming?
And so as I was thinking aboutthis, that really what happens
when I'm no longer murderingsomeone as I become a forgiver,
(05:18):
right. And we know what God'sword talks about that if we
don't forgive, that he won'tforgive us. And so I don't want
to walk in unforgiveness,knowing that I'm going to be
held to a standard of not beinggiven. And then the other thing
here is in the in the lust is Ireally want to be come faithful.
I want to be, I don't want tohave my eyes looking where I
(05:42):
shouldn't remember a few yearsago, we talked about doing a job
covenant and essentially said,you know, if I look upon a
woman, you know, let this manhad my wife and you think, what,
wait, what Yeah, like that myheart really be pure before
Lord, I don't even want to, Idon't want to try to fulfill the
desires of my flesh. And evenlook,
Andy Searles (06:05):
I love him. So we talked about how some of that is
by viewing the objects of lust,not as cheapened people that we
can control but people who aregreat value, but also we got to
see ourselves of great value,right? I am a man made in the
image of God created to love.
Why would I stoop to lust andcontrol and commodify. And so as
(06:27):
we fight, lust, and we seek tolet these truths of Jesus sink
deeper and deeper into our soul,then part of that does revolve
around how we value others. Yes.
But it also revolves around howwe see us as children.
Dan Schilling (06:49):
Well, I want to get to these next ones. They're,
they're really good. And wecontinue to say, how does this
align with the things we've beentalking about here over the last
several episodes about the issueof pride? And how each one of
these other ones you brought tomy attention? Like, wow, lust
really is an aspect of pridebecause I want what I want. And
(07:09):
we're gonna even see a nice, Ithink, to even some more ways,
Andy Searles (07:13):
it's funny that isn't it? There is a consistent
theme through scripture, right?
Yeah. Pride, bad humility. Good.
Yes.
Dan Schilling (07:21):
So let's get into it. Let's look at this first one
here. Matthew five. Yeah. So
Andy Searles (07:25):
this first one today, third one, in a little
study this wait one moment,wait, what moment? Matthew 533.
Again, you have heard it said,right. And again, whenever we
hear, you have heard it said,you know, he's talking about the
voices around us, notnecessarily bad. But just not
(07:49):
the deeper, fuller, richer lifethat Jesus offers. You've heard
it said, to our ancestors, youmust not break your oath, and
you must keep your oath to theLord. And again, we're like, Oh,
that makes sense. It's importantthat we kind of keep our
promises. And then Jesus says,but you must, but I tell you,
sorry. Don't take an oath atall.
Dan Schilling (08:14):
Tell me more. It doesn't make sense makes me
pause for a moment. Right? So
Andy Searles (08:17):
because we think oath is a good thing, like a
promise. But really, an oath issomething that we add to a
promise, again, pridefully tomake ourselves seem more
trustworthy, right? So forinstance, a young child would
come up to you. And you know, wesay you tell the truth. They
(08:40):
say, Yeah, I'm telling thetruth. I swear on my
grandmother's grave. You heardthat? Yeah, I don't even know
what that means. Right. But wechoose to kind of swear by
things because we think it addsweight to the truth that was
saying, right? So in thisculture to these disciples, and
(09:01):
to this crowd, right, they hadheard given oath, it's a good
thing to give an oath, right? Soyou'll piece them back it up,
back it up and back it up FENSAin fencin, and said, right, but
Jesus said, that ain't workingfor you. Because the more you
try to protect your truth,right, the more that actual
(09:25):
truth is diminished. Right?
We've all met people like that,right? Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't
want to pick on anybody. But butyou know, if you're going to,
you're going to buy a car,right? Yeah. This is the best
deal you'll ever have. Ever,ever. Right? You can look on
this site. Trust me. Yeah. Andit'll be the best deal ever. Or
(09:47):
you can go this place and it'sas low as we can go. Right. And
it's like as soon as they startto put these oaths around the
promise The Promise loses itsvalue. Yes, it does. And they'd
heard for years and years backup, back up, back up your
promises, fencing and fencingand fencing. That was getting so
(10:09):
corrupt, that Jesus says, I'mgoing to tell you don't keep it.
Any later goes on in the samesection to say, but let your Yes
be Yes. And your no be No, whathe's saying is that if we are
living with integrity, we don'tneed to add anything to our
integrity, or honesty is enough.
(10:36):
You've heard it said, don'tbreak your oath. Yes. But I tell
you, if you live with integrity,this is my interpretation. You
don't need to take an oath atall. This is either by heaven
because it's God's throne Earthbecause it's God's footstool or
for stole or Jerusalem, becausethe CEO a great key. That's what
people were swearing by. Yes.
Oh, I swear by Jerusalem. Iswear by Heaven. Right? I swear
(10:59):
by. Right? Yeah. And it's like,what are you? What are you
doing? Why do you need tojustify? In fact, you're right,
the next verse is actually quitefunny. So do not swear by your
head. Right? Because you cannotmake a single hair, white or
black. Right. And I think whatJesus is saying here is, he's
just not that powerful. That'sright, right. You know, who are
(11:23):
you to make these outrageouspromises on your truth? Because
you can't even change the colorof your hair. I mean, over a
period of years, we're both onon a good track to do that. But
if I said, Hey, I want my headgo back to being brown. I don't
have the power to do that.
Right. So why would we swear bythings that are powerless, that
(11:47):
we are powerless to control?
When really the most powerfulthing about us? Is our
integrity? Yes. And word. Right.
You have heard it said, keep anoath. Build a fence around your
promises. I swear by this, like,this is the best deal ever. You
won't find it we had it. Jesus.
Forget about the padding becausethe padding actually diminishes
(12:07):
your promise. Yes. Let your Yesbe Yes. And your no be no.
Right. And that's how we'resupposed to
Dan Schilling (12:17):
look, when it's the other part of that. Verse
37. Here says anything morecomes from the evil one.
Anything else beyond?
Andy Searles (12:28):
Yes. Right?
Because we know that thecharacter of the evil one is to
create chaos and confusion.
Right? Whenever there is chaosand confusion in your life,
right? You can trace that backto the enemy trying to distract
you so he can destroy you. Butit's what he does. Yes, it's
what he does, right? So thesefences that we put around these
(12:49):
holes that we take, oh, I swearby this or if this doesn't
happen to Pinky promise. MeYeah, right. Yeah. Right. It's
like copper fingers of I, youknow, I don't know. If we create
this chaos around the promises,then the enemy can have a field
day. But if we just honest. Yep.
Nope. Yes, there's not muchwiggle room for the enemy to
(13:12):
manipulate. And I think I thinkit's important to realize,
because we do live in this verydefensive culture where we feel
we need to defend ourselves orjustify ourselves. I think it's
important to note that sayingyes, or saying no, is a complete
sentence. Right? If you said,No, you want to come back and
(13:34):
spend the whole day with youtomorrow, I can say no. I don't
need to justify why. Right?
Because every extra excuse Igive you right, creates
opportunity for confusion andchaos, and distrust and
mistrust. Which is where thedevil does his best work. So
(13:54):
yes, but yes and no, be No,let's be honest. We don't need
to pad the truth. Because thetruth itself is what sets our
relationships.
Dan Schilling (14:03):
Yes. I think about my own parenting journey
here and the conviction. Andwhen you start thinking about
how many times when our kids askus to do something, yeah. And
they say, Well, yeah, well, letme think about it, or Yeah.
Well, you know, I said, maybe,and how many times in not just
(14:29):
relationships with my childrenor with my wife or with those
that I work with? Am I reallynot walking in integrity? Yeah,
because I don't want anyone tohurt their feelings or I didn't
want to
Andy Searles (14:45):
know it's good to it's good to think through,
right. It's good to have reason.
But we don't need to pad thetruth. Right. The truth speaks
for itself.
Dan Schilling (14:53):
Yes. And where we think that we're protecting
someone else really everprotecting ourselves which we
talk about pride. Like, I don'twant to look bad. I don't want
to be the bad guy. I don't wantto, you know. And yet, what
Jesus again, I think is tryingto draw us into in this is to
(15:13):
get that last line to me is sothat anything more comes from
the evil one, right? It's a it'sa it's a way of access, we're
just inviting him in likes it tobring chaos. And so once we lose
that trust, the reason why Ihave to keep swearing by all
this other stuff is because,well, you didn't do it. You
(15:34):
didn't do it. You didn't do it.
Well, yeah, but this time byJerusalem, and my head and my
pinky and like, wait a minute,you, you should have just like
just done it. First time. Yeah.
And so for some of us today, aswe're listening, and we got to
reflect them. Sometimes theyjust let them look back at
myself and say, Is there areasin my life today Holy Spirit
(15:55):
that you're trying to show me?
Where I'm not walking in thistruth? Letting Yes, be yes and
no. Because? If not, then I'messentially I'm inviting the the
devil into the things that aregoing on around me. And what's
it, it's creating chaos andanxiety and stress? And I'm not
I'm not thriving, the goal forus and as far as thriving or not
thriving, one of the reason whymight not be thriving is because
(16:16):
this is not being applied.
Andy Searles (16:20):
Because Because chaos. Right and confusion
suffocates us. Yes. Right? Itjust kind of constricts our body
so that we can't thrive. Yes.
But a simple yes. Simple. No.
Done with. Yes.
Dan Schilling (16:35):
Well, let's dig in on this one. And then let's
go to the next one. If
Andy Searles (16:38):
we wait, what?
Wait, what? Wait, what? Wait,what? Ouch. All right. Second
one today, you have heard itsaid, again. I did not realize
this phrase was used so manytimes. In the Sermon on the
Mount, right? You have heard itsaid, An eye for an eye, a tooth
for a tooth. But I tell you whatto listen to the eye tells you
(16:59):
don't resist an evil doer. Now,we've got to be careful here,
right? Because every time Ipreached, there's this little
checklist of questions I gothrough. And one of them is Am I
being clear on what the passageis not saying? Right? Tell me
(17:20):
more? Because that's asimportant, as am I being clear
on what the passage is saying?
Right? So let me just be clearhere. What this passage is not
saying is that it's okay. To letan evil do or keep doing evil
things to you. Right? Yes.
That's not what Jesus is sayinghe right. And so if we are in an
(17:42):
abusive situation, an abusiverelationship, if there is
someone who is continuing tomanipulate us or take advantage
of us, right, that must bestopped. That is wrong. That is
not what Jesus is saying here.
Yes. Right. So just to kind ofclarify that you've heard it
(18:04):
said, An eye for an eye, a toothfor tooth, what he's talking
about here, was this kind of allof, of revenge. Yes, right. And
this eye for an eye, tooth fortooth, this philosophy was
actually kind of given by God togovernments. Right? That when
they rule, and as they sought tofind justice, that this was a
(18:26):
foundational principle for them.
And it kind of makes sense,right? If someone's wronged you
there needs to be somediscipline retribution. Yes.
Right. But the problem in thistime, and among those that Jesus
was speaking, is that people aretaking this eye for an eye tooth
for a tooth personally. And sothey were taking vengeance upon
themselves. Right. And again,when that happens, it's causes
(18:48):
chaos, and violence and anarchy.
And it takes us away from notjust being a civil society, but
from being the people that Godcauses to right. You've heard it
said and I for I seek revenge.
But I tell you Don't resist anevil doer. I think we need the
(19:09):
other examples to kind ofunderstand this. He goes on the
contrary, if someone slaps youon your right cheek, turn the
other cheek to him. Right. Let'snot stand there and get beaten
up. Right? What Jesus is sayinghere was this slap on the right
cheek, right? If we're sittinglike this, and I'm gonna slap
you on the right cheek. I gottause the back of my hand to do
(19:29):
it. Yes. The back of the handwas an insult. It was an
affront. Right. So Jesus issaying, when you are insulted,
don't respond with insult. Man,how hard is that? To not want
to? Yeah, give you the back?
Yeah. Then you're sure it'sugly. Yeah, right. Right. Right.
(19:49):
Yeah. Right. What's your naturalresponse? Well, look at you,
your shirt is no better. Right?
And it just perpetuates and itgrows and it grows and it grows.
And Jesus says hey, whensomeone's So you don't feed it.
Don't let it escalate that a deescalate. Right? So the one who
wants to sue you and take awayyour sure lamb have your coat as
well. Your coat was the mostvaluable thing for me that they
(20:12):
own. Right? They would sleep onit, it would keep them warm,
they could loan it out if theywanted a little bit of money,
right? Someone was only askingfor the UnderSheriff. But Jesus
says no matter what someonewants to steal from you, right?
Don't be a jerk and want tosteal back. Right? Break that by
being generous. Yes. Right.
(20:33):
Because there's something in thenature of generosity that
changes our heart away from itsnatural inclination, and turns
us towards the kind of peoplethat God wants us to be. And
then he gives us this, thisthird illustration, we know this
one, as well, if anyone forcesyou to go one mile go with him,
too. And this was all about thepostal system that was set up by
(20:56):
the Romans, right? And everymile they had these little
refreshments, stations, right.
But if the refreshment stationwasn't there, where they could
get a glass of water andsomething to eat, as they went
about delivering their theirmail, than they could legally
compel someone to do it, thenext mile for them, right, and
(21:18):
it was the heart, man, this issuch a hassle. I don't want to
do that. Who are you to tell mewhat would you say don't grumble
at that, see as an opportunityand go and go a little bit
further as well. Right. So Ithink in this WaitWhat moment
that the disciples in the crowdhad to experience Jesus was
saying, there is a better waythan the way and it's a way of
(21:42):
humility. It's a way thatdeescalate rather than
escalates, right? It's a waythat loves back generously,
rather than fights backselfishly.
Dan Schilling (21:57):
Yes. Well, and I, again, the mirror gets a little
close to me, and I'm apickleball player I love
Oklahoma started playingpickleball. And there's a system
of how paddles are put up. Andso And there's, you know, you
play at certain levels in thecertain times i plays at a one
(22:17):
level and so he has to play atthat level to play well. Some
times some folk come in theredon't play at that level, and so
it's aggravating. So I get kindof like her. So I was playing
with a lady who's not play sowell. But she's very outspoken
and. And so at the end, we getbeat, and then I come over and
(22:38):
instead of putting my pedalbeside hers and the losers, I
went ahead put mine on the otherside, because I didn't want to
continue to play. And I don'twant to lose my composure. Like,
and so she starts chewing on me.
What do you think you are Youthink you're better? No. I'm
just I'm just,I'm just trying to mix it up.
Yeah, I'm just trying toYeah, cuz I don't want to insult
you. I don't want to bewhatever. But you know, you
(22:59):
really shouldn't be playingtoday. But I don't want to have
whatever I'm just gonna movequietly, she starts making a
scene. And she lived rent freein my head the rest of the time,
because I'm like, She's overhere, bad mouthing me and these
people and like, I played withanother round. They're like,
they wouldn't even talk to melike, like,
Oh, God, what do I do? You wantto escalate a fight back? And I
(23:22):
could tell you that you do.
And yet in some in AI, what cameto mind is what you just said
just a little bit ago, about,you know, essentially that
hurting people hurt others. Buttell that line again, what you
were just telling me, because Ithink it connects here. I know,
it's the next one too. But justlet's talk about
Andy Searles (23:44):
now you put me on the spot. My memory doesn't work
well. Because I think I thinkwhat we're talking about was
every portrayed. Yes. First ofall,
Dan Schilling (23:56):
we're going to take a break right here and what
that last line that Pastor Andyjust share that every
perpetrator was first victim wasa powerful revelation. And it
may be for you as well. So we'regoing to pick up this
conversation again. In the nextepisode, you're not gonna want
to miss this. This was somepowerful truth. Faster, handy
(24:17):
shared. So thanks for joiningthe FeedSheep podcast. See you
again next time. Bless you.
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