July 21, 2023 • 23 mins
Special guest Pastor Andy Searles is on the FeedSheep Podcast for Part 3, contrasting the "you have heard it said" and the "but I tell you" statements of Jesus in Matthew 5. This 3-part series may free you from generational bondage that is keeping you from thriving. #ThriveinChrist
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Dan Schilling (00:07):
Hey, welcome to the FeedSheep podcast where we
help you hear God's voice,follow his lead and thrive as a
disciple. I'm Dan Schilling andI'll be one of your guides. Now
let's get into today's topic.
Hey, thanks for joining the FeedSheep podcast today, we're gonna
pick up on part three of theconversation I had with Pastor
end circles here in the studio.
This, again was just powerfultime, just the revelation that
(00:31):
God was bringing. I know it wasa great encouragement to me. And
I believe it will be to you onyour journey to here. Follow. So
we're going to pick back up fromour conversation here where
pastor Andy was talking aboutevery perpetrator first tune in
to hear what his responseto the next one too, but just
(00:52):
let's talk about
Andy Searles (00:55):
um, now you put me on the spot. Oh, my memory
doesn't work? Well. No, I thinkI think what we're talking about
was every perpetrator, yes. wasfirst a victim. Yes. And so we
see people who hurt us. Yes.
Right.
Dan Schilling (01:11):
As the perpetrator, right, how dare you
and
Andy Searles (01:14):
and you need to be punished. And I'm gonna be the
one who does that. But what thatdoes is that makes us the
perpetrator. Right? And, and wefight fire with fire, right? We
fight Eye for eye and tooth fortooth. And it just gets slightly
bigger. Right? You know thatevery wall in history has
started with an issue, like yourpickleball. Paddle. Right? And
(01:39):
it just gets bigger and biggerand you start to bring in more
people. Yeah, well, you're Oh,yeah. Well, you're in right. And
before you know it, right.
You're living in a way over?
Yeah. But Jesus says no, no, we,we this de escalate. Conflict.
Yes. Because the escalating bythe way of love is the loving
(02:00):
thing.
Dan Schilling (02:01):
Yes. Well, that night, as I was walking in
repentance, trying to that day,and just think, God, forgive me,
I don't, I don't want to walk inthat. And what I'm realizing
more and more, Andy is that hewas saying, you can't do this on
your own, out of your flesh, youcan't love unless you're being
(02:24):
with me, my Holy Spirit impartedto you, you don't have it in
Utah, love her, you don't havethe ability on your in your
flesh to not strike back. Butwhen I think about in Galatians,
he's talking about the fruits ofthe Spirit. And don't we aren't
doing good, because the harvestof blessing is in six. Don't
worry, you're doing good. Or,you know, you'll reap a harvest
(02:46):
and blessing if you don't giveup. And there's so many times I
think for many of us, who arehere today, and we're thinking
about these relationships andpeople that this has happened
could be our wives could be withour children could be with our
family members or work coworkersor people around us. And we it's
and they're as my son's ifthey're living rent free in our
(03:09):
head. They're like, Oh, no, Iwant to get back at them. And I
want to. And so for us today weagain, I want to say how do you
how do we even when it gets
Andy Searles (03:22):
man? Sure. Well, for me. It's about hiring down
not powering up some more,right? Someone will insult me.
Maybe to my face, maybe throughgossip means your media right
now. And as part of me thatwants to stick out my chest
(03:42):
power up. I say. Yeah, right.
How did right? And honestly, II'm not proud of this. I'm very
embarrassed to say this. My kidsago, this kind of nickname for
me that they've used a couple oftimes. It's very embarrassing.
You know, the Fraser is such aKaren. Right? Yeah. Karen is
someone who goes and complainsto the manager, right? Because
(04:03):
they didn't get their way.
Right. They say oh, can Andrewcould come? Which is kind of
inherent and Andrew. Yeah. Andit happens for me. And I one of
my triggers is when there arebroken systems, right? So my
internet never seems to beworking. So I'll get on the
phone to the company. Right?
Hey, it's not working. Oh, sorryabout that right now. Like, let
(04:24):
me speak to your manager. Oh,there's nothing we can do. Let
me speak to manager I feelmyself powering up right. But
soon as I start powering down.
Right, which means I don't needto be right on this. I've got no
right to over assert myself ordemand. Yeah, right. It's when I
(04:46):
stopped powering down. I can bethe kind of person that reflects
Christ. As we solve problems.
Yes. Right. To my ego power.
Yes. I say no. Okay, that's notwho I want. Okay, let's turn the
volume down. Yes. Increase thevolume on the human. Yes. And
power down rather than power.
Dan Schilling (05:06):
Which to me again, what we're saying is like
what Paul was saying that youwould increase Holy Spirit in
that I would increase power.
Power me down. And you powerbecause in myself I'm gonna be a
complete yeah horses that's
Andy Searles (05:22):
that's exactly what Jesus don't do it don't
Dan Schilling (05:25):
enter into the ways or the flesh in this area
because all it does is producedeath Yeah. And yet inside we
know what he's calling us to isthat daily crucifying that flesh
that wants to Yeah. Wow. Don'tyou know who you're talking to?
You know, like,
Andy Searles (05:43):
yeah, yeah, and I find it useful to Hey, you hit
me. I'm gonna hit you harder.
Yes, power up. Jesus No, nopower down. And the best way to
practically power down is to dowhat is not natural. To your
selfish flesh. We self. So gothe extra mile, right? Be
generous when you don't want tobe. Right. Turn the other cheek.
(06:04):
Because those acts of poweringdown. When we're most Christ
like, and again, you know whomodeled this? It was Jesus.
Right? It's in the garden. Yes.
Right. Peter pulls out the swordcut somebody, Jesus, what are
you doing? We do not fight back.
Right? This guy does not havethe authority over you. This guy
(06:26):
does. So don't fight that.
Dan Schilling (06:31):
Well, even after that night, starting to say
this, what? Back? Talking to myboys. Yeah. And we've been
finding that the more and morethat I'm authentic with them
humble talking about, hey,here's where I am today. And
then they start talking aboutplaces in their life that are
(06:53):
and because we are theme ofwe're doing one of our groups,
we call them play groups. And sowe've been hitting the
scriptures pretty hard oneverything that the Bible says
about humility, characteristicsof people who did it people who
didn't. And so as we continue tolook at it and look at it, we're
like, wow, like, how do you dothat? How can you when you're
(07:14):
being assaulted? And again,apart from him in us? And but
what I find, like you weresaying a little bit ago that
when we position our heart likethat, when we're vulnerable with
that we allow the gospel to comein, we allow the goodness of God
to flow through us. And I thinkthat's what gets the attention
(07:34):
of people around like, how doyou do that? I mean, how can you
when people act that way, saythat thing, do that thing? How
do you do it? Yeah,
Andy Searles (07:45):
I'm really poor at it. But but but I serve a good
guy who lives in me. And thereally isn't part of the
equation. Because yes, I wouldmess it up. And I do. Yeah, I
think he said it. Well, yeah.
Maybe we decrease. Jesus canincrease.
Dan Schilling (08:02):
Yeah. Well, let's we got one more to go.
Andy Searles (08:04):
I know, we probably were at a time. So
please accept. Apologies forthat. This is good. I
Dan Schilling (08:11):
want to make sure we Yeah, strong here. This is a
key part. Because many of us, Iknow struggle, but let's, let's
go for it.
Andy Searles (08:18):
Yeah. And this is so relevant today, as well.
Right. You have heard it said,right. And again, by now we know
that you have heard it said is atrigger for good, but not
enough. There's more right? AndI doubt it happened because it
doesn't happen with us. But Ihope that as the disciples in
(08:40):
the crowd heard this, theygetting ready for another kind
of WaitWhat pomp Michelle. Yeah,right. Yes, you're right. It
said love your enemy. Andeveryone goes, yes. Oh, no,
sorry. No, that love yourneighbor. It was going Yes. and
hate your enemy. But I tell you,amen. But I tell you love your
enemies and pray for those whopersecute you. And all the crowd
(09:03):
goes one way, why not? Right. Infact, what's interesting about
this is that love your neighborwas very much as scriptural
command. Yes, but hate yourenemy. That was some cultural
narrative that had been added.
Right. And I think we have to bevery careful in our Christianity
today that we are leaning intothe but I tell you, yes. And not
(09:26):
the cultural narratives thathave been played out. Because
they've been played out allaround us. And they're strong,
and they're manipulative andugly, and they're going to take
us to ungodly places. Yeah,right. Yeah. What had happened
here do you said love yourneighbor, check that and hate
your enemy where they heard hateyour enemy from it was from the
(09:46):
culture. But again, Jesus says,I'm going to tell you a better
way. And that better way is tolove your enemies. And again,
every jaw dropped, right?
Because that is so unnatural tous, and pray for those who
persecute you, so that you maybe children of your Father in
(10:11):
heaven. Three little things topoint out in that verse. Love
your enemies, pray, and so thatyou may be children of your
Father in heaven. And it's hardto love our enemies. And it's
(10:33):
hard to pray for those whopersecute us. Yes. But if we
realize that we are children ofa father in heaven, then we are
able to do that. Because we wereenemies of God. Paul says,
right? And we were thepersecutor errs, before we were
(10:57):
the persecutor holes, right. Butour Father in heaven, loved us
when we were his enemies, andloved us when we were
persecuting him. And if he didit to us, then we have a chance
of loving and, and praying forthose who persecute us. I think
(11:21):
this is some of the hardestteaching Christianity. I think
this is a wait, what moment thatis so staggering. It's going to
take us a lifetime to figureout. But for me, this verse is
one of the most important andhardest litmus tests as
Dan Schilling (11:43):
well. I again, when I think through it, he says
here to you know, if you lovethose who love you, what reward
were you get? Don't taxcollectors. I mean, the people
that you don't like you theseguys are the enemy. Right? These
are your fellow? Yeah.
Andy Searles (11:59):
What do you say is is is, is we need to be
distinct. Right? As those whofollow Christ, we are not to be
like the world. We're supposedto be outside the world we're
supposed to, to shine into theworld we are supposed to love
with an extraordinary love. Yes.
And if we just like everybodyelse, then we're missing the
point of what it means to followJesus. Yes.
Dan Schilling (12:23):
And two years ago, I was a administrator
Christian School. And reallywhat compelled sharing for years
around Ministry of family andserving because of the divorce
rate mean that the divorce ratein the church was as high or
higher than outside of theworld. And those statistics were
saying because well, that maybethe institution of marriage was
given up on, I suppose, outsideof the church, but inside, they
(12:45):
get married and divorced. Yousay, Okay, so what's that have
to do? Well, we had youngchildren in the school whose
parents were getting divorced.
And they would say to me,because when Mom Dad are getting
divorced, I'd say how you doing?
I say, Wow, I'm okay. I just, Idon't want to be a Christian. I
remember when young and I don'twant to be Christian. Like I'm
really why he said, because it'sa it's a bunch of baloney.
(13:07):
Pretty much what he said. Well,I said, What do you mean? He
said, Because this whole lovehere for one another. It's so
fun because Mom and Dad, it'snot real. And so when I think
about what he's, you know, youcan love your neighbor, you can
even love the person who's righthere. I mean, that we are as a
(13:28):
body of Christ, we're notdistinct, even our own homes,
not the ones who are we're nodifferent. We've, we're just as
much divorce just as muchstrife, just as much family,
breakups just as much, you know,people fighting over legacy of
the stuff who grandma's gettingdied, I want this and I want
that, and we don't talk to eachother, all the things that we as
(13:48):
believers in Jesus, but he'scalling us to something here and
again, not because it's a bunchof rules to follow, but because
when his light soul shinesthrough us, others do say, wow,
they taste and see the goodnessof him and say I want to partake
in it. I want to be I want toexperience that bread of life
that you're eating. Because ofwhat I'm eating. It's not
(14:11):
getting to that. Yeah. Yeah.
Andy Searles (14:13):
I mean, that's a fascinating point. Right? And,
and he says, Don't even the taxcollectors do the same. And the
irony is that Matthew, who'scaptured this was a tax
collector. He says, if you agreeonly your brothers and sisters,
what are you doing out of theordinary? I think that's a great
question for us all to meditateon. Right? What are we doing
this out of the ordinary? What?
What is following Jesus mean formy life? That is different than
(14:38):
when I wasn't following Jesus.
Right? And if there is nodifferent then again, I totally
get that I don't want to followJesus. Right? Because being a
Christian, right, is beingmarked as different, right?
Because we've been forgivenwe've been accepted will loved
(15:00):
were part of the family of God,as you said, here we are
children of our Father inheaven. That's different. Yes.
Right. And so live thedifference. But again, and this
is a big part of, of what we dohere. How do we do that? And I
think one of the keys for thatis found in that middle verse
(15:22):
Between Love your enemies andpray for those who persecute
you. And what we just talkedabout, about being out of the
ordinary, it says in verse 45,for he causes the sun to rise on
the evil and good, and sendsrain on the righteous and the
unrighteous. Right, yes. And asI interpret that, there's a lot
(15:44):
of ways we can meditate andprocess through there is that
people are people. That's right,right. God is good to those who
deserve it and those who don't.
Right, the rain comes on therighteous and the unrighteous.
Right. We're all people, right?
We're all part of the human racemade in the image of the Divine.
(16:09):
And so it's really easy todemonize enemies. And again, if
we demonize our enemies, then wecan't love enemies. In fact,
we're on a track to hate ourenemies more. But if we can see
our enemies as people, andpeople like us who are broken
(16:32):
and hurting and in need of aSavior, that turns the hatred
that we want, towards the end,yes, to start to be loving
towards. And that's where beenthinking through a lot recently,
this idea that we talked about amoment ago, that everybody who
(16:53):
was a perpetrator was first avictim. Yes. Right. So So one
person, right, you're aperpetrator. And I can look at
you and say, Man, I hate thatperpetrator, you hurt me. But
that same perpetrator is also avictim? Yes. Because they are
hurting people because someonehas hurt them. Right? And you
can trace that hurt all the wayback to the enemy. Yes, right.
(17:17):
But if I see you, not as theperpetrator, but as a victim, I
don't hate you. I want to fight.
Yeah, I have compassion. And Iwant to love you. And that makes
all the sense in the world,because what's actually going to
heal the perpetrator? Right?
Because the way they're actingout is just an expression of
that hurt, right? So a way toheal that hurt, is through
(17:39):
compassion, and care and love,because that's what Jesus did
for us. That's the way he toldus. Right? So Jesus, but I tell
you, love your enemies, and willwho at really, really, for me,
part of doing that? is reframingthe perpetrators, as the victims
(18:02):
that they are as well, yes,doesn't justify their son sin
doesn't make it right, thatthey're hurting people. What one
of my favorite Abraham Lincolnquotes he, when he was in
office, I think he had someoneit was an enemy. And he
secretary came to him and said,you know, so and so's here? Do
you want me to get rid of him?
And Mr. Lincoln said, I know No,I know of no better way than to
(18:26):
get rid of my enemy than bymaking your friend. Right. Yes.
And so something happened inLincoln. Right? It didn't see
him as a perpetrator. Yes. Butsaw him as a victim. Yes, who
needed? Yes. And again, big ask.
(18:47):
I think Jesus knew that. I thinkJesus knows how hard it will be
for us. But I think this littleverse here reminds us that we're
all people. We're all made inthe image, there is only one who
is pure evil. The rest of us isjust manipulated by that. Yes.
And if I can see you not as myperpetrator or its first victim,
(19:10):
I can respond not with fight andhate. Yes, it was compassionate
love. What a world that would bean extraordinary out of the
ordinary world.
Dan Schilling (19:21):
When I two things come to mind and the as we start
to land the plane here a littlebit. The first one is when I
think about Jesus with a womanwho's caught in adultery. And,
you know, these guys like so,whichever one of you without
sin, go ahead and throw thatfirst stone. Yeah. Yeah. And
(19:42):
I've heard different people talkabout, you know, like, he might
have been writing their sins inthe dirt and like, I'm out of
here. Yeah. But it's easy to seesin in someone else's mirror.
It's hard to see this in, in mymind, it's easy to see somebody
else as the perpetrator. are inthere that mirror, but it's hard
to see the perpetrator in mymirror.
Andy Searles (20:05):
And that's so, so important for us to be self
aware around, right? A lot ofpeople like to live with this
victim mentality. And I'm thisway because of this happened to
me because so and so. And someof that's true. But as victims,
(20:26):
we've got to be very careful, wedon't become the perpetrators.
Right? Hurt people, hurt people,we break the cycle with
compassion, and love. Right.
And, you know, we've both I'msure met people who've gone
through a long divorce. Right.
And with all honesty, they cansay I was the victim. And they
(20:51):
were, very quickly they get intoanother marriage, and they say,
that's never gonna happen to meagain. And it doesn't, they're
not the victim anymore. But theycan become the perpetrator. Yes,
right. Yes. Hurt people. Hurtpeople. Yes. So So as we're
looking externally, let's tryand see our enemies, as victims.
(21:17):
But as we look internally, let'smake sure that we're not acting
out as victims and becomingperpetrators. Let's make sure
that we who have been hurt, ornot exercising that hurt someone
else?
Dan Schilling (21:34):
Well, I'm encouraged today, I hope you are
as well. And I believe theencouragement that I'm receiving
from the Lord again, just likemy pickable story, Lady is how
am I going to respond? Am Igoing to respond with an insult?
Or am I going to respond with alove and a compassion that makes
(21:56):
someone say, Wow, that's, that'sdifferent? Am I willing to do
that? And so my encouragement toyou today is again, to start
asking the Holy Spirit is thereis there relationships right now
that are severed that are notthe way God you would want them
(22:17):
to be where they would be unity,Jesus said that, that he and the
Father were one that his prayerfor us was that we would be one
like He and the Father arewandering. And so there's some
people in your life, I believe,today, that God wants to bring
you back into oneness with. Andso I just want to encourage you,
as you're hearing his voice,that you start to follow and
taking those steps to restorethat intimacy with that person,
(22:41):
which I believe will continue tofurther your intimacy with your
heavenly Father to the Spirit.
So Andy, thanks for joiningtoday. Appreciate you being
here. Appreciate your hearts,this
Andy Searles (22:52):
some deep stuff, man, this is this is messing
with with me and how I livebecause I think my confession is
for too long. I've listened tothe You have heard it said I
want to be in who follows Jesusand therefore listens to Jesus
when he says yes.
Dan Schilling (23:15):
And that's the goal.
That we hear that voice that hesays, But I tell you, I have
something for it. And so, thanksfor tuning in. grateful that
you're with us on this journey.
Again, we haven't arrived. We'reon the journey herself. But we
want to invite you to join us onthe journey so you can start
that journey. If you haven'talready. You go to
feedsheep.org. And we just loveto have you be a part of the
(23:38):
process and just inviting you tojoin us on a journey to hear
God's voice follows the Thriveof the disciples. Thanks for
tuning in. God bless you and seeyou next time.
Hey, welcome to the FeedSheep podcast where we
help you hear God's voice,follow his lead and thrive as a
disciple. I'm Dan Schilling andI'll be one of your guides. Now
let's get into today's topic.
Hey, thanks for joining the FeedSheep podcast today, we're gonna
pick up on part three of theconversation I had with Pastor
end circles here in the studio.
This, again was just powerfultime, just the revelation that
(00:31):
God was bringing. I know it wasa great encouragement to me. And
I believe it will be to you onyour journey to here. Follow. So
we're going to pick back up fromour conversation here where
pastor Andy was talking aboutevery perpetrator first tune in
to hear what his responseto the next one too, but just
(00:52):
let's talk about
Andy Searles (00:55):
um, now you put me on the spot. Oh, my memory
doesn't work? Well. No, I thinkI think what we're talking about
was every perpetrator, yes. wasfirst a victim. Yes. And so we
see people who hurt us. Yes.
Right.
Dan Schilling (01:11):
As the perpetrator, right, how dare you
and
Andy Searles (01:14):
and you need to be punished. And I'm gonna be the
one who does that. But what thatdoes is that makes us the
perpetrator. Right? And, and wefight fire with fire, right? We
fight Eye for eye and tooth fortooth. And it just gets slightly
bigger. Right? You know thatevery wall in history has
started with an issue, like yourpickleball. Paddle. Right? And
(01:39):
it just gets bigger and biggerand you start to bring in more
people. Yeah, well, you're Oh,yeah. Well, you're in right. And
before you know it, right.
You're living in a way over?
Yeah. But Jesus says no, no, we,we this de escalate. Conflict.
Yes. Because the escalating bythe way of love is the loving
(02:00):
thing.
Dan Schilling (02:01):
Yes. Well, that night, as I was walking in
repentance, trying to that day,and just think, God, forgive me,
I don't, I don't want to walk inthat. And what I'm realizing
more and more, Andy is that hewas saying, you can't do this on
your own, out of your flesh, youcan't love unless you're being
(02:24):
with me, my Holy Spirit impartedto you, you don't have it in
Utah, love her, you don't havethe ability on your in your
flesh to not strike back. Butwhen I think about in Galatians,
he's talking about the fruits ofthe Spirit. And don't we aren't
doing good, because the harvestof blessing is in six. Don't
worry, you're doing good. Or,you know, you'll reap a harvest
(02:46):
and blessing if you don't giveup. And there's so many times I
think for many of us, who arehere today, and we're thinking
about these relationships andpeople that this has happened
could be our wives could be withour children could be with our
family members or work coworkersor people around us. And we it's
and they're as my son's ifthey're living rent free in our
(03:09):
head. They're like, Oh, no, Iwant to get back at them. And I
want to. And so for us today weagain, I want to say how do you
how do we even when it gets
Andy Searles (03:22):
man? Sure. Well, for me. It's about hiring down
not powering up some more,right? Someone will insult me.
Maybe to my face, maybe throughgossip means your media right
now. And as part of me thatwants to stick out my chest
(03:42):
power up. I say. Yeah, right.
How did right? And honestly, II'm not proud of this. I'm very
embarrassed to say this. My kidsago, this kind of nickname for
me that they've used a couple oftimes. It's very embarrassing.
You know, the Fraser is such aKaren. Right? Yeah. Karen is
someone who goes and complainsto the manager, right? Because
(04:03):
they didn't get their way.
Right. They say oh, can Andrewcould come? Which is kind of
inherent and Andrew. Yeah. Andit happens for me. And I one of
my triggers is when there arebroken systems, right? So my
internet never seems to beworking. So I'll get on the
phone to the company. Right?
Hey, it's not working. Oh, sorryabout that right now. Like, let
(04:24):
me speak to your manager. Oh,there's nothing we can do. Let
me speak to manager I feelmyself powering up right. But
soon as I start powering down.
Right, which means I don't needto be right on this. I've got no
right to over assert myself ordemand. Yeah, right. It's when I
(04:46):
stopped powering down. I can bethe kind of person that reflects
Christ. As we solve problems.
Yes. Right. To my ego power.
Yes. I say no. Okay, that's notwho I want. Okay, let's turn the
volume down. Yes. Increase thevolume on the human. Yes. And
power down rather than power.
Dan Schilling (05:06):
Which to me again, what we're saying is like
what Paul was saying that youwould increase Holy Spirit in
that I would increase power.
Power me down. And you powerbecause in myself I'm gonna be a
complete yeah horses that's
Andy Searles (05:22):
that's exactly what Jesus don't do it don't
Dan Schilling (05:25):
enter into the ways or the flesh in this area
because all it does is producedeath Yeah. And yet inside we
know what he's calling us to isthat daily crucifying that flesh
that wants to Yeah. Wow. Don'tyou know who you're talking to?
You know, like,
Andy Searles (05:43):
yeah, yeah, and I find it useful to Hey, you hit
me. I'm gonna hit you harder.
Yes, power up. Jesus No, nopower down. And the best way to
practically power down is to dowhat is not natural. To your
selfish flesh. We self. So gothe extra mile, right? Be
generous when you don't want tobe. Right. Turn the other cheek.
(06:04):
Because those acts of poweringdown. When we're most Christ
like, and again, you know whomodeled this? It was Jesus.
Right? It's in the garden. Yes.
Right. Peter pulls out the swordcut somebody, Jesus, what are
you doing? We do not fight back.
Right? This guy does not havethe authority over you. This guy
(06:26):
does. So don't fight that.
Dan Schilling (06:31):
Well, even after that night, starting to say
this, what? Back? Talking to myboys. Yeah. And we've been
finding that the more and morethat I'm authentic with them
humble talking about, hey,here's where I am today. And
then they start talking aboutplaces in their life that are
(06:53):
and because we are theme ofwe're doing one of our groups,
we call them play groups. And sowe've been hitting the
scriptures pretty hard oneverything that the Bible says
about humility, characteristicsof people who did it people who
didn't. And so as we continue tolook at it and look at it, we're
like, wow, like, how do you dothat? How can you when you're
(07:14):
being assaulted? And again,apart from him in us? And but
what I find, like you weresaying a little bit ago that
when we position our heart likethat, when we're vulnerable with
that we allow the gospel to comein, we allow the goodness of God
to flow through us. And I thinkthat's what gets the attention
(07:34):
of people around like, how doyou do that? I mean, how can you
when people act that way, saythat thing, do that thing? How
do you do it? Yeah,
Andy Searles (07:45):
I'm really poor at it. But but but I serve a good
guy who lives in me. And thereally isn't part of the
equation. Because yes, I wouldmess it up. And I do. Yeah, I
think he said it. Well, yeah.
Maybe we decrease. Jesus canincrease.
Dan Schilling (08:02):
Yeah. Well, let's we got one more to go.
Andy Searles (08:04):
I know, we probably were at a time. So
please accept. Apologies forthat. This is good. I
Dan Schilling (08:11):
want to make sure we Yeah, strong here. This is a
key part. Because many of us, Iknow struggle, but let's, let's
go for it.
Andy Searles (08:18):
Yeah. And this is so relevant today, as well.
Right. You have heard it said,right. And again, by now we know
that you have heard it said is atrigger for good, but not
enough. There's more right? AndI doubt it happened because it
doesn't happen with us. But Ihope that as the disciples in
(08:40):
the crowd heard this, theygetting ready for another kind
of WaitWhat pomp Michelle. Yeah,right. Yes, you're right. It
said love your enemy. Andeveryone goes, yes. Oh, no,
sorry. No, that love yourneighbor. It was going Yes. and
hate your enemy. But I tell you,amen. But I tell you love your
enemies and pray for those whopersecute you. And all the crowd
(09:03):
goes one way, why not? Right. Infact, what's interesting about
this is that love your neighborwas very much as scriptural
command. Yes, but hate yourenemy. That was some cultural
narrative that had been added.
Right. And I think we have to bevery careful in our Christianity
today that we are leaning intothe but I tell you, yes. And not
(09:26):
the cultural narratives thathave been played out. Because
they've been played out allaround us. And they're strong,
and they're manipulative andugly, and they're going to take
us to ungodly places. Yeah,right. Yeah. What had happened
here do you said love yourneighbor, check that and hate
your enemy where they heard hateyour enemy from it was from the
(09:46):
culture. But again, Jesus says,I'm going to tell you a better
way. And that better way is tolove your enemies. And again,
every jaw dropped, right?
Because that is so unnatural tous, and pray for those who
persecute you, so that you maybe children of your Father in
(10:11):
heaven. Three little things topoint out in that verse. Love
your enemies, pray, and so thatyou may be children of your
Father in heaven. And it's hardto love our enemies. And it's
(10:33):
hard to pray for those whopersecute us. Yes. But if we
realize that we are children ofa father in heaven, then we are
able to do that. Because we wereenemies of God. Paul says,
right? And we were thepersecutor errs, before we were
(10:57):
the persecutor holes, right. Butour Father in heaven, loved us
when we were his enemies, andloved us when we were
persecuting him. And if he didit to us, then we have a chance
of loving and, and praying forthose who persecute us. I think
(11:21):
this is some of the hardestteaching Christianity. I think
this is a wait, what moment thatis so staggering. It's going to
take us a lifetime to figureout. But for me, this verse is
one of the most important andhardest litmus tests as
Dan Schilling (11:43):
well. I again, when I think through it, he says
here to you know, if you lovethose who love you, what reward
were you get? Don't taxcollectors. I mean, the people
that you don't like you theseguys are the enemy. Right? These
are your fellow? Yeah.
Andy Searles (11:59):
What do you say is is is, is we need to be
distinct. Right? As those whofollow Christ, we are not to be
like the world. We're supposedto be outside the world we're
supposed to, to shine into theworld we are supposed to love
with an extraordinary love. Yes.
And if we just like everybodyelse, then we're missing the
point of what it means to followJesus. Yes.
Dan Schilling (12:23):
And two years ago, I was a administrator
Christian School. And reallywhat compelled sharing for years
around Ministry of family andserving because of the divorce
rate mean that the divorce ratein the church was as high or
higher than outside of theworld. And those statistics were
saying because well, that maybethe institution of marriage was
given up on, I suppose, outsideof the church, but inside, they
(12:45):
get married and divorced. Yousay, Okay, so what's that have
to do? Well, we had youngchildren in the school whose
parents were getting divorced.
And they would say to me,because when Mom Dad are getting
divorced, I'd say how you doing?
I say, Wow, I'm okay. I just, Idon't want to be a Christian. I
remember when young and I don'twant to be Christian. Like I'm
really why he said, because it'sa it's a bunch of baloney.
(13:07):
Pretty much what he said. Well,I said, What do you mean? He
said, Because this whole lovehere for one another. It's so
fun because Mom and Dad, it'snot real. And so when I think
about what he's, you know, youcan love your neighbor, you can
even love the person who's righthere. I mean, that we are as a
(13:28):
body of Christ, we're notdistinct, even our own homes,
not the ones who are we're nodifferent. We've, we're just as
much divorce just as muchstrife, just as much family,
breakups just as much, you know,people fighting over legacy of
the stuff who grandma's gettingdied, I want this and I want
that, and we don't talk to eachother, all the things that we as
(13:48):
believers in Jesus, but he'scalling us to something here and
again, not because it's a bunchof rules to follow, but because
when his light soul shinesthrough us, others do say, wow,
they taste and see the goodnessof him and say I want to partake
in it. I want to be I want toexperience that bread of life
that you're eating. Because ofwhat I'm eating. It's not
(14:11):
getting to that. Yeah. Yeah.
Andy Searles (14:13):
I mean, that's a fascinating point. Right? And,
and he says, Don't even the taxcollectors do the same. And the
irony is that Matthew, who'scaptured this was a tax
collector. He says, if you agreeonly your brothers and sisters,
what are you doing out of theordinary? I think that's a great
question for us all to meditateon. Right? What are we doing
this out of the ordinary? What?
What is following Jesus mean formy life? That is different than
(14:38):
when I wasn't following Jesus.
Right? And if there is nodifferent then again, I totally
get that I don't want to followJesus. Right? Because being a
Christian, right, is beingmarked as different, right?
Because we've been forgivenwe've been accepted will loved
(15:00):
were part of the family of God,as you said, here we are
children of our Father inheaven. That's different. Yes.
Right. And so live thedifference. But again, and this
is a big part of, of what we dohere. How do we do that? And I
think one of the keys for thatis found in that middle verse
(15:22):
Between Love your enemies andpray for those who persecute
you. And what we just talkedabout, about being out of the
ordinary, it says in verse 45,for he causes the sun to rise on
the evil and good, and sendsrain on the righteous and the
unrighteous. Right, yes. And asI interpret that, there's a lot
(15:44):
of ways we can meditate andprocess through there is that
people are people. That's right,right. God is good to those who
deserve it and those who don't.
Right, the rain comes on therighteous and the unrighteous.
Right. We're all people, right?
We're all part of the human racemade in the image of the Divine.
(16:09):
And so it's really easy todemonize enemies. And again, if
we demonize our enemies, then wecan't love enemies. In fact,
we're on a track to hate ourenemies more. But if we can see
our enemies as people, andpeople like us who are broken
(16:32):
and hurting and in need of aSavior, that turns the hatred
that we want, towards the end,yes, to start to be loving
towards. And that's where beenthinking through a lot recently,
this idea that we talked about amoment ago, that everybody who
(16:53):
was a perpetrator was first avictim. Yes. Right. So So one
person, right, you're aperpetrator. And I can look at
you and say, Man, I hate thatperpetrator, you hurt me. But
that same perpetrator is also avictim? Yes. Because they are
hurting people because someonehas hurt them. Right? And you
can trace that hurt all the wayback to the enemy. Yes, right.
(17:17):
But if I see you, not as theperpetrator, but as a victim, I
don't hate you. I want to fight.
Yeah, I have compassion. And Iwant to love you. And that makes
all the sense in the world,because what's actually going to
heal the perpetrator? Right?
Because the way they're actingout is just an expression of
that hurt, right? So a way toheal that hurt, is through
(17:39):
compassion, and care and love,because that's what Jesus did
for us. That's the way he toldus. Right? So Jesus, but I tell
you, love your enemies, and willwho at really, really, for me,
part of doing that? is reframingthe perpetrators, as the victims
(18:02):
that they are as well, yes,doesn't justify their son sin
doesn't make it right, thatthey're hurting people. What one
of my favorite Abraham Lincolnquotes he, when he was in
office, I think he had someoneit was an enemy. And he
secretary came to him and said,you know, so and so's here? Do
you want me to get rid of him?
And Mr. Lincoln said, I know No,I know of no better way than to
(18:26):
get rid of my enemy than bymaking your friend. Right. Yes.
And so something happened inLincoln. Right? It didn't see
him as a perpetrator. Yes. Butsaw him as a victim. Yes, who
needed? Yes. And again, big ask.
(18:47):
I think Jesus knew that. I thinkJesus knows how hard it will be
for us. But I think this littleverse here reminds us that we're
all people. We're all made inthe image, there is only one who
is pure evil. The rest of us isjust manipulated by that. Yes.
And if I can see you not as myperpetrator or its first victim,
(19:10):
I can respond not with fight andhate. Yes, it was compassionate
love. What a world that would bean extraordinary out of the
ordinary world.
Dan Schilling (19:21):
When I two things come to mind and the as we start
to land the plane here a littlebit. The first one is when I
think about Jesus with a womanwho's caught in adultery. And,
you know, these guys like so,whichever one of you without
sin, go ahead and throw thatfirst stone. Yeah. Yeah. And
(19:42):
I've heard different people talkabout, you know, like, he might
have been writing their sins inthe dirt and like, I'm out of
here. Yeah. But it's easy to seesin in someone else's mirror.
It's hard to see this in, in mymind, it's easy to see somebody
else as the perpetrator. are inthere that mirror, but it's hard
to see the perpetrator in mymirror.
Andy Searles (20:05):
And that's so, so important for us to be self
aware around, right? A lot ofpeople like to live with this
victim mentality. And I'm thisway because of this happened to
me because so and so. And someof that's true. But as victims,
(20:26):
we've got to be very careful, wedon't become the perpetrators.
Right? Hurt people, hurt people,we break the cycle with
compassion, and love. Right.
And, you know, we've both I'msure met people who've gone
through a long divorce. Right.
And with all honesty, they cansay I was the victim. And they
(20:51):
were, very quickly they get intoanother marriage, and they say,
that's never gonna happen to meagain. And it doesn't, they're
not the victim anymore. But theycan become the perpetrator. Yes,
right. Yes. Hurt people. Hurtpeople. Yes. So So as we're
looking externally, let's tryand see our enemies, as victims.
(21:17):
But as we look internally, let'smake sure that we're not acting
out as victims and becomingperpetrators. Let's make sure
that we who have been hurt, ornot exercising that hurt someone
else?
Dan Schilling (21:34):
Well, I'm encouraged today, I hope you are
as well. And I believe theencouragement that I'm receiving
from the Lord again, just likemy pickable story, Lady is how
am I going to respond? Am Igoing to respond with an insult?
Or am I going to respond with alove and a compassion that makes
(21:56):
someone say, Wow, that's, that'sdifferent? Am I willing to do
that? And so my encouragement toyou today is again, to start
asking the Holy Spirit is thereis there relationships right now
that are severed that are notthe way God you would want them
(22:17):
to be where they would be unity,Jesus said that, that he and the
Father were one that his prayerfor us was that we would be one
like He and the Father arewandering. And so there's some
people in your life, I believe,today, that God wants to bring
you back into oneness with. Andso I just want to encourage you,
as you're hearing his voice,that you start to follow and
taking those steps to restorethat intimacy with that person,
(22:41):
which I believe will continue tofurther your intimacy with your
heavenly Father to the Spirit.
So Andy, thanks for joiningtoday. Appreciate you being
here. Appreciate your hearts,this
Andy Searles (22:52):
some deep stuff, man, this is this is messing
with with me and how I livebecause I think my confession is
for too long. I've listened tothe You have heard it said I
want to be in who follows Jesusand therefore listens to Jesus
when he says yes.
Dan Schilling (23:15):
And that's the goal.
That we hear that voice that hesays, But I tell you, I have
something for it. And so, thanksfor tuning in. grateful that
you're with us on this journey.
Again, we haven't arrived. We'reon the journey herself. But we
want to invite you to join us onthe journey so you can start
that journey. If you haven'talready. You go to
feedsheep.org. And we just loveto have you be a part of the
(23:38):
process and just inviting you tojoin us on a journey to hear
God's voice follows the Thriveof the disciples. Thanks for
tuning in. God bless you and seeyou next time.
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