February 9, 2024 • 58 mins
Handing over a five-year sobriety coin to a close friend wasn't just a milestone; it was a reflection of the communal fortitude and personal accountability we've built in the trenches of recovery. This episode of FEEL FREE serves as your compass through the complex landscape of sobriety and addiction recovery. We open up about the power of NA, the role of service work in nourishing our spirits, and how the principles of recovery can be woven into the very fabric of our daily lives, offering a wellspring of growth.
Together, we uncover the delicate interplay between nurturing self-love and pursuing relentless self-improvement, while grappling with the challenges of early recovery. It's about striking a balance, where fostering relationships and building a community provide a bulwark against the threat of relapse, and every small victory is a beacon on the road to a fulfilling life.
Wrapping up, we celebrate the newfound courage that sobriety bestows, allowing us to confront trolls and criticism with a clear head and a steadfast heart. Creativity, wellness, and sobriety intermingle, revealing that our once reckless fearlessness has morphed into a constructive force that propels us forward. Join us as we share our transformative experiences and the personal growth that's possible when we commit to living our best, unadulterated lives.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to another episode of Feel Free, the only
podcast that'll tell you tochase your dreams and call you
out on all your bullshit, myselfincluded.
If you want more content onhealth, wellness, recovery and
inspiration, then look nofurther and hit that subscribe
button.
We really appreciate all thelove and support from everybody.
We wouldn't be doing this if itwasn't for all of you.
(00:27):
But enough of all of that,let's get into the episode.
Do either of you go to meetingsright now?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I think we both do.
I think we both do Right, yeah,I go to a weekly meeting.
I guess you could say it's myhome group, it is my home group,
so there are people there whohold me accountable.
Last week, a buddy of mineBrandon knows him, jeff got his
five-year coin.
I presented his five years onthe day of at the meeting, but
(01:00):
then there was another meetingwhere I had a coin to give him.
I got lost in some creative workI was doing and I completely
lost track of time and it waslike 8.30.
The meeting started at 8.00,and he's like bro, where are you
?
I'm like fuck, I just dippedright away.
I got there in the last 15minutes and I made an immediate
(01:24):
amends and gave him his coin.
And I was just so grateful tobe at another meeting too, to
have people in our lives thatremind us and keep us grounded
of the work that we do, that weforget to do for ourselves.
Like you were saying, if youcan help someone else, sometimes
that's the name of the game,because I just self-love and I
(01:46):
care, but I'm more than willingto put my own needs aside for
something I'm doing or focusedon, and I'm not as willing when
it comes to someone else'swell-being, someone else I care
about.
So if people are counting on me, then I'm counting on me, right
?
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
it's like go to meetings.
Sorry, that was a long-windedanswer.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
No, that's good.
Yeah, that's where I'm at, ohthat's perfect.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah, so there's two things that are important that
you both mentioned that peoplecan get from going to meetings
right and that service workhelping your community, helping
other people along their pathsand then community being a part
of the community, being part ofsomething.
So I used to go to meetingsonce a week.
Since I got sober I was doingthat regularly.
Once you'd either that meeting,but recently in the past I'd
(02:35):
say past month, past five weeksI probably haven't been to one,
because both of those bucketsnow service work and community
are being met in other aspects.
So I find that as long as Ihave those two pieces, then my
needs and fulfillment it's beingmet emotionally, spiritually
(02:56):
and mentally.
So as long as I have those, I'musually pretty good.
But I am definitely not opposedto meetings.
Sometimes months you'll call meand be like, hey, I got this
meeting, we got this going onand I like to make that a
priority.
So it's definitely more on likea once in a while basis, but
it's important because it offersthose two things and if AA is
not for you, then there'salternative communities as well
(03:16):
with sober people.
So I do highly encourage thatindividuals who are early in
recovery find service workopportunities in a sense of
community within the sober realm.
So, yeah, that's really.
That's really my long-windedanswer.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I love it, man, I think it's crucial that you are
able to connect, like some ofwhat the values are in the
program of, like AA or NA.
Some of the things that Ilearned from going to meetings,
work in the steps, learning thetraditions to apply them and
realize they do apply in otherareas of life.
And I think that might be wherepeople miss the mark is they
(03:55):
think this is such an exclusivelike club, you know, and it's
really like.
These things we learn are goingto help us in all aspects of
our life and once we can detachfrom, like the order of it and
the, I guess, conformity of itand realize this is only there
to help us.
I think new addicts strugglewith that a lot.
(04:16):
I see a lot of resistance,which I understand.
We don't like rules, we don'tlike to be told what to do I
still don't, you know and soit's completely understandable.
But I love to see thatconnection because, yeah, you
only hit a meeting an hour ofthe day, right, if you want to
go and if you're practicing theprinciples you know, among other
(04:39):
principles of your own, in allareas of your life, you're going
to be, you're going to bespiritually grounded, you're
going to be okay, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yep, I like this book , the Stepping Stones man.
Once you put me back on it,it's like what's the pain
Fucking six to 10 months ago?
And every morning, if youfollow my Instagram, I post the,
the reading of the day, andthere's a lot of good shit in
here and stepping stones, moredaily meditations for men, and a
lot of it's aimed at people inrecovery.
(05:07):
But I get a lot of people thatmessage me about this shit that
aren't, because it can beapplied to, like you said, every
facet of life.
Man.
It's just like a book to bemore grounded, more
compassionate and to just be abetter person, right?
So it's good stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
That was great man.
That one's geared toward mentoo, but you know, of course I'm
sure some of it applies, forsure all around.
But I love that you're readingit because your story post is my
daily reading sometimes, A lotof times, you know, and it is a
little bit outside of the box,Like it's recovery literature,
but it's not.
It's not like your dailyreflections or your big book.
You know it's someone like oneof us who decided to, you know,
(05:48):
do a daily reflection and writewhat they interpret out of, like
this kind of work.
You know, Great, great reads,dude.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah yeah.
Easy to digest too.
It's not like you know.
I think a lot of people get ohfuck, I got to read through this
whole book and I have to readchapters and do a big study.
Like no dude, you can just likeread a small paragraph when you
start your morning off, that'sit, and it could significantly
impact you right in a positiveway.
So good shit.
Thanks for that recommendation,man.
(06:17):
It's been awesome.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Of course, totally.
Yeah, I think having betterresources during recovery has
been great for me.
I like being able to talk withother addicts, I like being able
to hear their stories, theirthoughts and they a few of them
are very excited that I'm there.
Just like a few of them ask meat the end they're like, oh,
(06:39):
you're going to be here nextweek and I'm like, yeah, yeah,
I'll be back next week andthey're pretty excited to see me
and I'm pretty excited to seethem.
You know, it's a really positivething and although, like, I was
really hesitant to go tomeetings, even like when I first
started getting sober, I didn'tgo to my first meeting until
six months into my sobrietywhether that was like social
anxiety or like it was moresocial anxiety, honestly, and I
(07:02):
didn't really want to read thebook and do all that stuff.
But it's a humbling experiencegoing there now and like having
no preconceived notions aboutwhat recovery should be, as long
as everybody's there to be ahealthy, sober person.
I should say sober first.
But yeah, that's theprerequisite and although it is
a little, you know addiction ispretty.
(07:23):
It's a depressing thing, youknow.
It's not super easy to talkabout, but everybody there has a
positive light on them.
Even if you're only there foryour first day, you know there
is that light that things canget better and I'm really happy
to be a part of that now on aweekly basis.
You know, it's just totally.
Yeah, it's totally changed myperspective on it.
(07:44):
So you know, keep coming backis what they say, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Dude, for sure.
And NA is super cool toobecause, like you said, it is a
lot of new newcomers, even atthe meetings where they've been
around longer, like you're at abeginner's meeting, so, of
course.
But there's a lot of newcomersthat you know come and go and I
think part of what recoverylooks like for me is helping
people that aren't there yet,you know, are not, don't even
understand this language that wespeak.
(08:09):
You know how do I get throughto those people and sometimes
that is going against the grain.
It's not doing things by thebook.
You know I love that.
When Brandon got his one year,he came in and shared a unique
story, his unique success story.
That is like, you know, I got amentor and I've done a lot of
(08:30):
work.
I come to meetings but I'vekind of worked a program of my
own.
It's not like, it's not likeI'm.
He wasn't saying like I don'ttake your recommendations.
It was more like I'm doing whatworks for me and like, look at,
like, look at me, I got.
You know what I mean Like I gota year.
That he was.
You were so happy.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
I love to see that, dude, because yeah, I don't know
there's more than one way tothe top of the mountain for sure
, yeah, there is man Definitelyis and that's where, john, you
can add different perspectivesome of these meetings also
being an individual who gotsober in a non-traditional 12
step sort of fashion, and Ibelieve that that's going to be
(09:13):
um helpful for newcomers andpeople are new to the program to
see that there are othermindsets and philosophies
outside of 12 steps and inferiorwaves to get to a good spot in
life.
Right, having that perspectiveis important for any kind of
group, right, and certainly Ithink very highly of the 12
(09:34):
steps AANA.
It is by far proven the mostsuccessful program to help get
people sober and clean off ofdrugs.
You see a lot of very happy,fulfilled people that have gone
through that and it's, you know,the building block, the
foundation of sobriety in a lotof ways, and a lot of the
principles that we probablyspeak about right with
(09:55):
therapists or readings that wedo, meditations and
methodologies, are a lot of thatstuff is in the big book and
it's part of the 12 step program.
So it's good to have diversityof thought, man for sure.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Right, and that's one of the main reasons I had all
three of us on here for the.
I think this is this is thefirst time all three of us have
been on this is true podcasttogether yeah, and we've all
we've all gotten throughrecovery in our own way.
I I do think Brandon Brandonstarted going to meetings to
start out and he also got thementor, which I didn't do
(10:29):
meetings, but I did get thementor.
Muncie worked the steps in theprogram and went to meetings and
stuff.
So we all have a differentformula that worked for us, you
know, and I think it's great theway that we can all help people
with our different perspectives.
You know, which is, I think,what we're seeking out to do
with all of the work we do,whether it's creatively, what we
(10:51):
speak on, what we write about.
We're all trying to help peopleget out of the dark places that
all three of us have donebefore.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
What's it in the programs of you know, the 12
step programs, the, the, thehonesty, the open mindedness and
the willingness, those arerequired to you know, to change,
to continue changing your life,like, even after you've got
some clean time under your belt,whether you're, you know, in
those programs or not, if you'renot willing to look at yourself
(11:19):
and listen to, you know, theactions of others, then I don't
know.
If I don't know if you stand achance at that time, you know
you might not be ready orwhatever, but the open
mindedness, you know you can'tthink that well, you could think
that you know it all, but youmight not.
You know, and there's just,there's some key principles that
really I think are, theycorrelate they're, they're
(11:41):
across the board.
You know, that's what I, that'swhat I see in every aspect of,
like personal development isthese common, these common
themes that you just can't throwout the window.
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
For sure, and do you think that your perspective on
recovery has changed now fromwhat it was at the start?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Either you can go with that one for sure.
Yes, yes, because when I firstwas getting off drugs and my
life was just in shambles,recovery to me meant getting and
staying abstinent fromsubstances, with the exception
of, like coffee and, at the time, cigarettes or whatever you
(12:23):
know.
And now, clearly, like thosearen't even a thought in the
mind.
But it's how can I get the bestquality out of the life that I
live?
Be centered, be whole, begrounded, like what can I do in
my daily life that that willhelp me optimize and just really
enjoy my time here, you know,and not like lose my mind.
(12:45):
I think that's what recovery isto me now, like it's really,
yeah, spirituality.
And that's what you learn, Iguess, is once you have some
time away from drugs and alcoholor whatever your vice was that
was really destroying you,making it hard to have quality
of life.
You get some time away fromthat and you realize that, like
not all your problems have goneaway and you need to continue
(13:07):
like doing work, and you startto see, maybe what the real
problems were.
You know why you turn to thosethings and and you realize those
were never the problems, theywere your solution.
That no longer is serving you,you know.
And so that's ongoing.
The ongoing challenge now isyou know we don't have those
(13:28):
solutions.
So what solutions do we havethat are going to, that are
going to give us quality of lifeand allow us to live, allows to
feel free, you know?
Speaker 3 (13:44):
he did the thing.
He did the fucking thing.
I love that.
Oh, was that sorry?
Was that it?
It's all the way you can end it.
That's fucking sick man.
Yeah, I agree, I totally agreewith that.
So it's about in the beginningespecially, right, I go all the
way back to fucking high schoolwhen I was going to these
(14:05):
meetings and it was like we'dcelebrate time.
Okay, I got this much time ofabstinence from drugs and
alcohol, and then that's whatyou think it's about.
But you're like, no, this isabout like living a fucking
fulfilling life, right.
So self development, it'sreally about self development.
And then, once you start todevelop self and start to
(14:26):
appreciate life in the way thathumans were supposed to live
life, right, which is clear frompoison you start to take that a
step further, right, and thenyou start looking at self
mastery.
So I believe that's kind ofwhat it leads to, right, that's
the end goal is self mastery,and people that are more in line
with stoicism would probablysee that in a similar fashion.
(14:49):
Right, but abstinence is thefirst step.
That's like, if you don't havethat, you can't have all this
other shit.
You have to give up thisoverwhelming impulse, right,
this compulsive, this compulsiveurge to seek pleasure, right,
that could like once, he said,in the form of drugs, alcohol,
(15:10):
gambling, pornography, fucking,nicotine.
It could be love, you know.
That said, that's a wholeanother podcast right there
about navigating relationships,which is some shit you guys
probably know, like I've beensingle for a long, long time and
navigating relate, intimaterelationships with women is like
something they you know.
(15:30):
They don't really teach youthat, you have to learn it.
And when you're individual,that isn't used to having those
healthy relationships or shit,even a healthy relationship with
yourself, right, this is whythey recommend one year of being
single while you're in theprogram or getting sober and
clean, and that's been very eyeopening for me, it's.
So that's another element,right, it's you got self
(15:54):
development and then you've gotlike interpersonal relationship
development and building strong,loving, trusting relationships
with other people.
So you have to be verycompassionate and you have to
have a good understandinghimself in order to do that.
Because you need to make surethat you're good, like you're
good emotionally, mentally, thatyou're reliable, that you're
honoring your word and thatyou're not projecting out in a
(16:16):
negative way to your partner,right, because that's that's you
can't have a relationship thatway.
So it has changed.
It changes a lot and it's likethere's always room for
improvement and growth in thoseareas.
It's a very beautiful thing,but the starting point is
getting getting clean.
But, fuck, you won't stay cleanvery long if you don't start
the self development Right.
(16:37):
And that's what we see andthat's a lot of times, like
people and they stop going tofucking meetings because that's
their community, that's theirservice work, that's their
accountability piece and they'reworking a program on top of
that.
When they stop they theyrelapse.
And you got to make sure thatyou're putting the work in,
you're doing the selfdevelopment, that you have a
community and a strong backboneto keep it going.
(16:57):
So that's, that's my anotherlong winded answer.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Dude, there's so many directions you could go from
from all those gems you justdrop.
I feel like man because becausein this, the self mastery thing,
like I don't know if there's anan end point with it, or like,
at what point along the way,when you're striving towards
self mastery, are you content,like and like, okay, like I love
(17:25):
myself, but I know I want tocontinue, I want to continue
toward mastery and improving.
And then, you know, with theone year thing, I think it's,
there's no set time, it's, it's,it's okay, I guess it makes
sense for like a minimum right,but years you could be years
into your sobriety and gettinginto a serious relationship it's
going to throw you for a loop,you know, because, like I love I
(17:48):
, you know I love Lori, I'd killand die for that woman.
But there's always still workon yourself you need to do.
And then now you do havesomeone else's life that you're
kind of responsible for and it'snot all about you anymore, but
there's still work to be done.
So it's like that balancing actand I don't know if anyone has
(18:10):
the answers, but it's it's.
It's definitely, you know, butit's important.
And when last time we kicked it,brandon, you mentioned
something that really stood outto me is that, like we don't
want, we're not here to liveeasy lives.
You know we're not here to haveeverything just be easy.
And the things that areworthwhile we have to work for
(18:33):
and and however simple they maybe, they are never easy.
That's all I got on that.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
But no, dude.
Good, Some good stuff there,John, what you got.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
So I liked how you said that the end goal of self
mastery or there might not beone, and I'm like you're getting
into Buddhist territories orstudying Buddhism and stuff with
, because they'll also say thatI don't think there is an end
goal to that, because you'realmost content with your
(19:08):
existence, right, but it'spurely natural.
You're not forcing it oranything like that.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Loose it.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah, it's kind of like mixed with Taoism too.
Yeah, but my perspective onrecovery was totally different
from my perspective on sobriety,and I was just on a podcast
talking about this question too,because at the start of it it's
you know, I need to abstainfrom drugs.
That was the number one goal.
No matter what, I need to besober every single day, aside
(19:38):
from, like you had mentioned,the coffee and the cigarettes.
Right, that was kind of whatyou know.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
that's you can't get rid of all of them.
You can't get rid of all ofthem.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
You'll go nuts, honestly.
But what I did was I alwaysviewed it as I need to get all
of my habits under control,instead of looking at it as
recovery.
Because I didn't work the 12step program, I didn't do
something traditional.
I did have a mentor and atherapist who was 30 years sober
, who worked the program, whohelped me out through that, and
(20:11):
for me I was just looking at itlike I have so many bad habits.
All of my free time is consumedwith this impulsive desire to
drown my myself, my conscience,you know.
So instead of learning how torecover right off the bat, I
learned how to optimize myhabits and my free time.
So I knew that I needed to getrid of every addiction I had,
(20:33):
whether it was an addiction tovideo games or cocaine, alcohol,
refined sugar, energy drinks.
So I took the first two yearsof my sobriety to get those
habits in line, get betterphysical habits, running,
working out and eating right andstuff like that.
But that's not what recovery is.
Recovery is like you saidyou're looking at things that
(20:55):
used to be problems but you usedthem as solutions, right, and
after, like my two year mark insobriety, then I started to
realize that I need to startforgiving myself for the things
that I've done in my past, whichis over the last almost three
years of the second half of mysobriety and recovery.
I've looked at it like I got towrite a book on this shit,
(21:15):
because I think forgiveness iskind of my ultimate goal in
recovery to forgive myself formy past and understand that each
day I'm not perfect and I justhave to give it my all.
Obviously, like we've said,being sober is the number one
goal.
It's literally the prerequisitefor this self mastery, self
(21:37):
development.
But my goal is to just beforgiven, you know, and that's
yeah.
That's where I'm at right now.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
What you say to be forgiven is to forgive yourself,
right, because you can'tcontrol necessarily if other
people are going to forgive youExactly you can.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
It's all self forgiveness.
I can ask people forforgiveness that I have hurt,
but it's on them if they'regoing to forgive me or not.
If I forgive me for my mistakes, then that's the best I can do
as an individual.
You know Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
It's almost like the rejection of that, like I think
most people that are reasonablewill forgive you for anything
you've done, depending on whatit is, of course, but if they
don't, then even just thateffort is like can lead to
forgiveness of self right.
Sometimes that's the wholeamends process is like sometimes
you got to take that step toclear your side of the street
(22:32):
and that might not, they mightnot take to it, you know, and
that's okay, because then it'sno longer your business, right,
I think.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
But I definitely You're right.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
That's an ongoing.
Yeah, that's a struggle for metoo, John.
That's self forgiveness is yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
It's tough and it's like we're not perfect.
We've never I've never thoughtof myself as perfect.
But some of the mistakes we'vemade in our lives, now that
we're past them, we look back atthem like God damn, I can't
believe I did some shit likethat, like was I just a soulless
bastard who didn't have anyemotions, you know.
And now you're like now thatwe're sober, there's no filter
(23:12):
on our emotions anymore, like wefeel like a hundred percent
right.
You feel hurt, you feel happy,you feel these things to the
fullest potential.
And now you're looking back atyour past, like, in order to
forgive yourself, you have tofeel that empathy of the people
you might have hurt or in themoment you hurt yourself.
You know, and it's tough.
I'm coming up on five years andfeeling tough man, you know
(23:37):
when you're really feeling rightand then processing that shit
too.
So that's one of the mainreasons why I started going to
meetings is I feel something atthese meetings that I haven't
felt before, and I like itbecause it has changed what
recovery has meant to me.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
What day of the week do you go to that?
Do you go on weekends?
Do you go during the week?
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yeah, Thursday at 7.30.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Okay, I was going to say we could hit one while I'm
out there, but I'll be out thereon Thursday.
Yeah, nice, so that's a quickone.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yeah, I haven't gone to any of the other ones in the
area.
The people I go to at thatmeeting though they hit all the
meetings in the area.
It's just kind of the onemeeting that works with my
schedule, cause, yeah, I meanweekends weekends are tough with
like working out or hooping orworking on the podcast and stuff
, so I've tried to make time forthis.
(24:30):
It's a non-negotiable, asBrandon would say, so Love that.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Yeah, it's a home group man, you got your home
group.
It's important to have thatBull man.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
So, now that we have our perspectives on what
recovery started out for us,what it has become, what worked
for us, have you guys noticed adifference in how it has
affected your creativity andyour wellness?
And this kind of is, you know,centered around the
(25:01):
self-development and theself-mastery stuff.
But for people who are inrecovery, a lot of people who
get addicted to drugs are eitherartistically inclined or have
the ability, in my opinion, tobe artistically inclined.
So how has this sobrietyaffected your guys' creativity
and wellness and ambition ingeneral?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Moncy, you wanna go first.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Sure man, yeah, so I mean, recovery opened a whole
new door for me of creativity,because, you know, it was
something I always knew I wouldnever stop being creative.
It's just like within me, youknow, I feel like it's why I'm
here and I wasn't reallyattached to any purpose or there
(25:52):
was no driving force apart fromlike this is why I exist, this
is what I must do.
I always had that belief, onceI began at a young age, but
toward the end of my use, myactive addiction, I feel like I
was just like clinging on tothat and I didn't really know
who I was.
To be quite honest, I just knewI didn't wanna give up, like in
(26:13):
life and creatively, and when Igot sober and got some of my
ducks in a row, if you will, Ijust started to write again,
write lyrics.
I was, you know, writingjournaling too and whatnot.
But once I started to writelyrics again and things were
just flowing out of me, I feltlike I had new perspective.
(26:35):
I was learning, you know, fromrecovery.
I was learning new lingo, newvalues, you know, and it changed
me and I think that itdefinitely impacted my music.
It gave me like a jolt to wanna, you know to speak, to use my
voice again, and over the yearsI guess my perspective is always
(26:58):
changing.
So it's the hardest part, thepart of it that I feel like
artists get stale sometimes,that the staleness people talk
about, and I don't subscribe tothis theory that, like people
think a lot of people don't likeEminem since he got sober, they
think his music got like dryand there are many other artists
that people say that kind ofstuff about, whereas like, yeah,
(27:20):
you know, once he kind ofcleaned up his act, he lost it
or whatever.
And I think it's the ability todive into the work, like you
need to be able to fully let goand of control completely to be
creative and to feel, to getlost in it you can't be worried
(27:41):
about, like you know, oh, at sixo'clock I have to make dinner,
or at eight o'clock I gotta beat this meeting Like you need to
just fully be able to beimmersed in the experience.
And I think that's hard onceyou start like really caring
about your life and like otherpeople in your life and trying
to be better.
So I think that it's theability to detach that has
(28:04):
gotten harder and I think that'swhy people hold on to vices.
You know, for me, lately, it'sthe nicotine.
The nicotine helps me to just,you know, kind of let go dive
into the work, and I know it'snot great, but I can work for
really long hours, you know, andnot worry about like anything
(28:25):
you know.
And to be able to do thatwithout any external substance
is obviously the goal, of course, and to create at a capacity
that resonates with people, allpeople you know, or all of
what's in someone you know, andso I think that it's really
complicated, to be honest withyou.
I don't know, but it affectscreativity 100%.
(28:48):
It's just are you gonna allowit to affect you positively or
negatively?
And can you leverage thequality of life that you're
getting from these changesrecovery, abstinence, you know,
personal development and throwthem into the creative element
of life?
And once you can do that, man,the people that you could help
(29:08):
through.
That avenue is dude, you know.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
And I think that we're all doing that in a sense.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah, I'll shut up with that.
I wanna hear what you guys haveto say.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
But yeah, you touched up on some good stuff there.
So the way I kind of view it is, it's getting uncomfortable,
right?
So since getting sober nolonger relying on drugs and
alcohol I no longer makefear-based decisions At least I
work my hardest not to right,and that's a part of the
self-development journey.
So by not making fear-baseddecisions, it opens up the doors
(29:45):
to do a whole lot of crazy orshit, because you're not afraid
of how people are going toperceive you.
You're no longer afraid offeeling less than or in.
It applies to like doing liveperformances.
Right, that singing in front ofpeople, fucking playing music
in front of people.
That used to like reallyfucking stress me out, and I did
do that prior to getting sober.
(30:06):
But I drank a fucking lot, man,before those shows, like I
would get fucked up and 10, 20beers and sometimes drugs with
it.
And now it's like, dude, I cango do this shit without using
drugs and alcohol.
What else can we do here?
And that creative flow works itsway out into whether it's like
(30:28):
a sales presentation orentrepreneurial efforts, right,
I'm working on some stuffoutside of my current day job on
the weekends and there's somuch opportunity to do things
that I never really would havethought possible, because I'm
not afraid to do them anymore.
So, like you said, you couldalso use it as a crutch, like I
(30:49):
did with alcohol for a while.
And you know nicotine, I knowthat's a whole nother beast man.
I occasionally dabble innicotine, in the arcs of
nicotine and shit.
Just recently this week Ihaven't had any energy drinks,
but I was on the energy drinksshit last week and I'm like holy
fuck, because I was never acaffeine guy, yeah until I was.
I was never into it until Istarted doing it.
(31:10):
I was like, holy shit, I coulddo five, six hundred milligrams
of caffeine today.
I'm like, and I'm like, holyfuck man, this shit isn't like.
I'm like, this isn't good, thisisn't a good substitute.
So now, today, only two cups offucking coffee.
Two cups of coffee, bro.
I'm like that seems pretty.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
That's reasonable.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
I'm I a drug addict, you guys be honest.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah, I'd say, all three of us are out here for a
reason.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yeah, I was faking it the whole time.
I just wanted to be aninfluencer, just want to get
famous.
Like well, this guy makes itlook really easy.
So, yeah, it really wasn't Gomy fucking kidding.
But yeah, dude, it's easy torely on Substances for that.
But when you get good at beinguncomfortable and doing
uncomfortable shit and chasingthat down, especially if it's
(32:01):
conducive to your missionstatement, right, you're like oh
, this is a fucking, like yousaid, john, it's a
non-negotiable.
And you start doing thenon-negotiables, you, you get
really good at beinguncomfortable, which allows for
creative flow and doingunapologetic creative.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
That's the game changer right there too, because
you think of any creative fieldand what you enjoy about it,
right, like I love writing musicand rapping, performing, you
know Doing videos, whatever.
But there are so many factorsthat you might not enjoy as much
(32:41):
and I feel like I've been ableto it detach from the the ego
centric side of it and also from, just like, the desirable
aspects of it, because it allhas to get done like if it's
truly non-negotiable, it's, it'singrained in your, your mission
.
You know you have to focus oncertain things that aren't
(33:04):
really fun.
You know like there's, you know, as an artist, there's
distributing your music.
There's posting content.
There's promoting your music.
There's writing the lyrics.
There's posting your lyrics.
There's making videos.
There's.
I mean, that scratches thesurface.
You're, you know, I know yououtsource your editing for the
podcast.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Shout out to Kai Dude for good for toke.
I'm gonna give Kai some bigcredit here.
Dude, he takes care of like allthat shit.
So fucking shout out to you Kai, old house, thank you legendary
.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
So that's what I mean , and it's cool when you have
people you can count on and.
But when you got to wear thesedifferent hats though, like and
you're fucked up, dude, you, youdon't stand a chance.
You know, and even like stayingin communication with the
people you're, you're workingwith and maintaining
Relationships and being able tocount on people.
If people can't count on you,how?
(33:58):
And you know that you're notgoing to put your trust in other
people to be counted on to takecare of things for you.
And that's required To doanything creative.
And I think, as you build andyou grow, there are certain
things that you can kind of Letgo of.
You can have other people takecare of for you, but along the
way, a lot of that is on you.
(34:19):
You know, as you're buildingyour brand and in whatever field
you're in, if you want the workto be done right, you know I
think you have to do a lot of itat first for sure, and I wasn't
able to do that when I wasLiving on a pipe dream of like
oh, this rap is so sick I'mgonna blow up like not a chance,
(34:39):
dude, yeah, you're dope.
I know I'm dope.
I'm one of the dopest, there isbut that's not enough bro,
that's not enough, you know, andI recognize that now and I'm
grateful that I have to stack myskills and I have to learn
these different aspects, okay,and work with other people like
it's not fucking all about me,like how, how selfish and how
(34:59):
ego Tistical of someone to thinkthat they're just that special.
You know, we're all fuckingspecial, but we're all not
special, you know, okay, I can'tdo it alone.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Need a fucking team dude.
You're absolutely right.
That's been a reoccurring themein my In my head this week I've
just been really thinking about.
I'm like, oh, look at All thestuff we can accomplish if we
work together.
And there's a lot to be saidabout that.
I I believe that Westernculture misses that mark a lot.
It's a very individualistic,one man's journey type of shit.
(35:34):
You see these families andthese groups of people and they
work together and they all havemoney.
They protect each other's money, they protect each other's
interest and they fucking dovery, very well, right?
There's a lot of growth incommunity there as well.
So this sparks up possibly moreconversations that the three of
us should be having Outside ofthis podcast, with opportunities
as well.
I've just been thinking likefuck, we're like all on our own
(35:56):
journeys.
It's sometimes it feels likewe're all on our own individual
journeys and I'm not Quite surethat it should be that way.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Sometimes Well, I think it needed to start out
that way in order for us to healand for us to trust ourselves.
Now we trust, all three of ustrust ourselves enough right now
, at this point, for it to nowcome together.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Just don't give me an energy drink, because I'll Come
over with a gun and take allyour shit.
If you give a mouse, a cookiedude like I'm telling you it's
shit's fucked.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Next time you feel like you need an energy drink,
just come, come jump in the icetub.
I.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Talk about that man.
He's been on that.
I just talked to Muncie aboutit.
Fucking guess who called metoday.
It told me he's like alright,son, I think you've been right
about a couple things.
Our HR director, dave, is doingcold.
It's so funny you might be onlike he started meditating and
shit too.
I'm like Fuck, yeah, man he's.
(37:01):
He has some dailynon-negotiables that are in kind
of our space now right.
So it's pretty neat to see thathe's in it now.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
It's weird you say that because my dad has been
going to the health club almostevery day for the last two weeks
.
Working out now yeah good, goodfor him man, I know it's
awesome.
It's nice to see that energy,and in those that are older than
us too, because, yeah, I mean,it's just nice to see that
energy in anybody and any age,you know, uh, something,
(37:28):
something I want to touch onthat I think Brandon said with
the creativity, and there wasthis, this fearlessness to To
just dive into things, right.
And then with with Munciesaying, yeah, you got to just
fucking dive into it, you don'tcare about dinner at six or this
at eight like it's thisfearlessness in the moment, you
know, and being able to Channelthat in a healthy way.
(37:52):
Now, then I wrote down thatthere's this dichotomy of fear.
Brandon was saying I'm notmaking fear-based decisions
anymore.
When we were all using, we wereafraid of the people we were, we
were afraid of our thoughts andfeelings and we tried to drown
ourselves.
So we were making decisions outof fear to, you know, use
substances.
But then also there was thisfearlessness I'm like I'm gonna
(38:15):
do fucking whatever.
No one's gonna stop me, right,I'm literally a wrecking ball,
right.
And this, this fearlessness,ended up destroying us.
Now, when Brandon talks aboutthis higher and lower self
Channeling the lower selffearlessness of the people, we
were into a higher self positive, fearlessness manner is now.
(38:36):
We're all now where we are allat right now now our fearless
our fearlessness doesn't destroyus, it builds us.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Yeah right.
Lower self is the fearlessnessbeing like the wanton disregard
for yourself and others right.
And then the higher self isFearlessness like I'm not afraid
of anything that's going to geta like in in front of my
mission statement, Like I'm notafraid to make the choices that
I have to make that areconducive to the higher version
of my being right.
You're absolutely.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Because we trust the positivity we have now too,
because before we had thefearlessness like I'm just gonna
make any fucking decision, Iwant fuck the repercussions and
the consequences, whatever.
Now it's like we trustourselves.
We're like with this missionstatement, brandon says it's
like listen, I'm happy, I'mhealthy, I know I'm gonna do
something great and I'm gonnahelp people along the way and
(39:28):
I'm not afraid of shit anymore.
You know dude.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
I think that's really bringing me to a place of
reflection that I think tiesinto the the forgiveness aspect
of like when we were, when ourshadow was running the show,
what, what parts of the higherself were Present, though you
know, because there was, likewe're still in there and there
were things that, like you knowgreat memories, we have great
(39:52):
experiences where clearly itwasn't all bad and we weren't,
you know, just completely Lowvibrational beings there was a
there it was all mixed up, right.
So how can we like pull out whatthat was and just remembering
why those experiences werespecial, you know, and not
(40:12):
giving so much credit to like,oh, we were high or we were, you
know, it was the drugs, or youknow?
Speaker 3 (40:20):
If I shared my fucking drugs with you, it means
I love you.
Exactly yeah you can tell if Iwas like man.
That guy gave me his last lineof cocaine.
I.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
He's a real one.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
I.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Couldn't be both.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Yes, for for one community.
So I wasn't getting higher, Iwas getting lower by giving away
my last line of cocaine, so itwas working towards the lower
self.
There's there's a lot, there'sa lot to dissect on that one.
But yeah, I totally see Itotally see where you come from.
It's not black and white.
We always have when we're, evenwhen we were in a phase of our
lives where we were using thatshit there was plenty I still
(41:07):
was like I've always been a verylike, compassionate person.
I've always cared about people.
It's a lot of.
It was self sabotage and anger.
I would get spiteful and angryand I would like lash out, and
there was a lot of.
I never thought I was an angryperson until I think about like
I'm like yeah, I was.
I just internalized a lot of itand hatred and I fucking
(41:27):
directed it towards myself.
I wasn't violent towards otherpeople, I was very violent and
disrespectful to myself.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Oh yeah, same here yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
I never know either of you guys to be like violent
people either, but I'm sure youhad anger or sadness that
manifested in anger, and then wejust self sabotaged.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
I think you take so much out on yourself that
eventually you're not able to beas good to your fellow.
You're not able to be yourbrother's keeper when you're
just shitting on yourself allthe time.
And that's where that self loveand being free within you is
(42:08):
allowing you to be kind to yourmates if you will, but not to
say, if you're taking all theshit, that you're just going to
be a horrible person.
But how much better could yoube, how much more of an impact
could you have on others had youbeen.
When you're taking care ofyourself.
(42:29):
It's clearly the difference isastronomical.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Right, yeah, because, yeah, I mean, we've all taken
it.
I think that's one common themein addicts is you actually get
angry at yourself and you takeit out on yourself and the only
thing you know how to do ispunish yourself further by
taking more drugs.
You're like, well, I'm a pieceof shit, so I'm going to act
like a piece of shit.
Well, I was angry, now I'm justgoing to be angry towards
(42:54):
myself.
I'm not going to lash out atpeople, I'm just going to lash
out internally and create awhole bunch of demons in my head
and we're all just going tofight each other for days on end
, years on end.
We're not going to get anywhere, and that was what addiction
was to me for those eight longyears just being angry
(43:14):
internally with somewhat of asmile on my face.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
I think that recovery has allowed me to see past that
surface level of like.
You see someone do somethingthat maybe is shitty toward you
or towards someone else andyou're quick to be like yo, but
now I'm like what's going onwith you, with that person, you
know and you know it's deeperthan that and you feel like you
know you feel empathy towardthem Like damn, like he must
(43:42):
really be going through it rightnow because he's lashing out at
me or this person, and I'mgoing to handle this as best as
I can because I've been there.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
Yeah, once he's good with that, I feel like he gets
like on the Facebook thing.
I believe we're talking aboutFacebook a little bit.
I think once he gets some shiton Facebook, once we're like the
crazies on Facebook and you'vedone a pretty good job of like,
of being like, ok, I'm not goingto let this bother me, whereas
I know like back, you know backin the day, for me that shit
like internet trolls, dudepeople on.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
Facebook Facebook fights dog Back in like 2009,
2010,.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Like high school, like holy shit that would get
I'd be so fucking angry fromFacebook Dude.
Then you can start to just likebrush it off your shoulders,
bro.
Life is so much better when youcan do that.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Dude right when someone hits you with like the
big novel type paragraph in thecomments section or something in
Facebook you're like oh man,this is it.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
I got it.
I should read it.
I should read it.
I'm going to type this out.
You know it's been like hourstyping shit out, like holy fuck.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Tiktok's pretty bad too.
It's like Gen Z Facebook, bro.
Like people, everyone feelsinclined to give their opinion
and there's some bullies onthere, bro, it's crazy, but it's
like.
That's not real life.
You know, like, oh man, ifsomeone I don't know if I'd be
bothered in the same way assomeone said that to me to my
face, but people don't.
(45:04):
So it's like.
It's this weird, like fakeworld of like I'm going to tell
you what I think, whereas, likewe don't have thought bubbles
above our heads as we like walkthrough into the restaurant, you
see, like the waiter is like,oh, that's a scrub, we just
walked in here.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
He's not going to hit me.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Like that's what you thought but, I don't know, dude,
it's not healthy to know togive so much stock into what
everyone else thinks, Like youdon't let people in your house
just to tell you everything theythink about your decorations
and your kitchen and shit.
Like, oh, that's for yourpeople you love your friends,
(45:39):
your family.
That's sacred, bro.
And we give so much ofourselves as people who we want
to build a brand, we want tohave a platform, we want to help
people with that Right and wewant to shake shit up.
We want to live a life that'slike, yeah, we're present, we're
omnipresent, we're there, butyou got to be careful, you know,
got to be careful for sure I'mgoing to have so many fucking
(46:02):
trolls.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Now I'm telling you, I'm going to have so many Dude.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
I actually had a few of them on some of my YouTube
shorts that I put up, yeah andlike you know you're like trying
to use your platform for apositive message.
And you know which is generallywhat I'm trying to do and like,
because, like one of the hold on, I'll tell you the story.
One of the guys, one of theshorts, was a solo episode where
(46:31):
I was like, just talking abouthabits, I'm like you got to be
relentless to figure out yourhabits, the good ones, the bad
ones, how to heal them, how tofix them, hire somebody.
I was just saying, you know,you got to be relentless and I
had some guy hop on in thecomments and be like, yeah, dude
, I'm like a certified, liketherapist and all this crap, and
like you can't be tellingpeople to do that.
(46:52):
It's not like that easy, likeyou're fucking missing the whole
point and shit like that, andit was like a 10.
It was a 10 second short and I'mlike he didn't even like watch
the episode before or after youknow, and yeah, I'm just like
sitting there.
I'm trying to figure out, likehow do I'm like?
Well, I'm four years sober, soI think I know a little bit
(47:13):
about getting off of bad habitsyou know which I was trying to
be very professional about itand I typed a really great
response and he did not reply toit and I'm like, well, that was
a waste of my fucking time, youknow.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Dude?
Yeah, for sure it's crazy man.
People are going to judge youoff a one minute clip for the
rest of your life.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
You know you got a recent troll story, muncie.
Do you have anything with thetrolls recently?
Speaker 2 (47:41):
No, no trolls man, for me I mean they exist.
Yeah, they definitely exist.
It's been a lot on TikTok.
So you know, ever sincelaunching the Cypher Society, I
fully manage the brand.
I post all the content Likeit's my baby, you know.
So I have a lot of otherartists that I'm posting and
promoting and I see what peopleare saying and it's the same
(48:03):
things that people would sayabout my music that I would take
personally and be like fuck youman, like yeah, you think
you're tough on the other sideof that fucking phone.
But now it's like I have nocontrol over what people say and
since it's not my own art, it'sa little bit less touchy, you
know I might snap back at themtoo, since it's like if they're
(48:26):
saying something to me, I'm likeyo, you're a hater, but I'm
very detached from it now.
It's really helped me to seelike, wow, some people just live
their life behind a screen tohate on other people doing
something creative, and thatwill never change, you know.
But I love the creators.
I'm drawn toward the peoplethat are doing shit.
(48:46):
That, yeah, maybe noteveryone's going to like it, but
there's a lot of love in thereand we tend to overlook that
right, we tend to look right tothe trolls and be like little
bitch.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
No, it's great, I've been, I've been really I've been
watching on the top up on myfeet, but Cypher societies don't
, man.
Thank you, man.
So I do have what we're goingto say.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
I do have one, so it was recently our best post we've
done on the TicTac Joey Keyeshis verse from a recent cypher
is like approaching nine or tenthousand plays and it's got like
a couple hundred comments.
And someone was like we filmedthe cypher in Pontiac, right?
So I put that on the video.
(49:27):
And someone commented you'reway too white to be from Pontiac
.
You're probably from BloomfieldHills and pretend to be from
Pontiac.
And I was like yo, like we shotthe cypher in Pontiac.
But, like you know, these areartists from all over Michigan
and Joey Keyes is Mexican, bythe way, and he also happens to
be from Pontiac.
(49:49):
So, you're just wrong bro.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
People don't even care if they're wrong, though,
and then they'll just go into it.
Yeah, it's just pointless atthat point and then.
But you're trying to defendthem.
You're trying to do somethingsacred, like art, you know, and
I think it's funny because we,we don't art or wellness or
positivity, we don't like.
I have a lot of people who hitme up about the podcast and the
(50:14):
book and they say they love allthat shit and it's great, you
know.
And then I have like one guy ortwo people on YouTube like
fucking have a problem with onething I did, trying to help
people.
Welcome to another episode of Feel Free, the only
podcast that'll tell you tochase your dreams and call you
out on all your bullshit, myselfincluded.
If you want more content onhealth, wellness, recovery and
inspiration, then look nofurther and hit that subscribe
button.
We really appreciate all thelove and support from everybody.
We wouldn't be doing this if itwasn't for all of you.
(00:27):
But enough of all of that,let's get into the episode.
Do either of you go to meetingsright now?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I think we both do.
I think we both do Right, yeah,I go to a weekly meeting.
I guess you could say it's myhome group, it is my home group,
so there are people there whohold me accountable.
Last week, a buddy of mineBrandon knows him, jeff got his
five-year coin.
I presented his five years onthe day of at the meeting, but
(01:00):
then there was another meetingwhere I had a coin to give him.
I got lost in some creative workI was doing and I completely
lost track of time and it waslike 8.30.
The meeting started at 8.00,and he's like bro, where are you
?
I'm like fuck, I just dippedright away.
I got there in the last 15minutes and I made an immediate
(01:24):
amends and gave him his coin.
And I was just so grateful tobe at another meeting too, to
have people in our lives thatremind us and keep us grounded
of the work that we do, that weforget to do for ourselves.
Like you were saying, if youcan help someone else, sometimes
that's the name of the game,because I just self-love and I
(01:46):
care, but I'm more than willingto put my own needs aside for
something I'm doing or focusedon, and I'm not as willing when
it comes to someone else'swell-being, someone else I care
about.
So if people are counting on me, then I'm counting on me, right
?
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
it's like go to meetings.
Sorry, that was a long-windedanswer.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
No, that's good.
Yeah, that's where I'm at, ohthat's perfect.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah, so there's two things that are important that
you both mentioned that peoplecan get from going to meetings
right and that service workhelping your community, helping
other people along their pathsand then community being a part
of the community, being part ofsomething.
So I used to go to meetingsonce a week.
Since I got sober I was doingthat regularly.
Once you'd either that meeting,but recently in the past I'd
(02:35):
say past month, past five weeksI probably haven't been to one,
because both of those bucketsnow service work and community
are being met in other aspects.
So I find that as long as Ihave those two pieces, then my
needs and fulfillment it's beingmet emotionally, spiritually
(02:56):
and mentally.
So as long as I have those, I'musually pretty good.
But I am definitely not opposedto meetings.
Sometimes months you'll call meand be like, hey, I got this
meeting, we got this going onand I like to make that a
priority.
So it's definitely more on likea once in a while basis, but
it's important because it offersthose two things and if AA is
not for you, then there'salternative communities as well
(03:16):
with sober people.
So I do highly encourage thatindividuals who are early in
recovery find service workopportunities in a sense of
community within the sober realm.
So, yeah, that's really.
That's really my long-windedanswer.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I love it, man, I think it's crucial that you are
able to connect, like some ofwhat the values are in the
program of, like AA or NA.
Some of the things that Ilearned from going to meetings,
work in the steps, learning thetraditions to apply them and
realize they do apply in otherareas of life.
And I think that might be wherepeople miss the mark is they
(03:55):
think this is such an exclusivelike club, you know, and it's
really like.
These things we learn are goingto help us in all aspects of
our life and once we can detachfrom, like the order of it and
the, I guess, conformity of itand realize this is only there
to help us.
I think new addicts strugglewith that a lot.
(04:16):
I see a lot of resistance,which I understand.
We don't like rules, we don'tlike to be told what to do I
still don't, you know and soit's completely understandable.
But I love to see thatconnection because, yeah, you
only hit a meeting an hour ofthe day, right, if you want to
go and if you're practicing theprinciples you know, among other
(04:39):
principles of your own, in allareas of your life, you're going
to be, you're going to bespiritually grounded, you're
going to be okay, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yep, I like this book , the Stepping Stones man.
Once you put me back on it,it's like what's the pain
Fucking six to 10 months ago?
And every morning, if youfollow my Instagram, I post the,
the reading of the day, andthere's a lot of good shit in
here and stepping stones, moredaily meditations for men, and a
lot of it's aimed at people inrecovery.
(05:07):
But I get a lot of people thatmessage me about this shit that
aren't, because it can beapplied to, like you said, every
facet of life.
Man.
It's just like a book to bemore grounded, more
compassionate and to just be abetter person, right?
So it's good stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
That was great man.
That one's geared toward mentoo, but you know, of course I'm
sure some of it applies, forsure all around.
But I love that you're readingit because your story post is my
daily reading sometimes, A lotof times, you know, and it is a
little bit outside of the box,Like it's recovery literature,
but it's not.
It's not like your dailyreflections or your big book.
You know it's someone like oneof us who decided to, you know,
(05:48):
do a daily reflection and writewhat they interpret out of, like
this kind of work.
You know, Great, great reads,dude.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah yeah.
Easy to digest too.
It's not like you know.
I think a lot of people get ohfuck, I got to read through this
whole book and I have to readchapters and do a big study.
Like no dude, you can just likeread a small paragraph when you
start your morning off, that'sit, and it could significantly
impact you right in a positiveway.
So good shit.
Thanks for that recommendation,man.
(06:17):
It's been awesome.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Of course, totally.
Yeah, I think having betterresources during recovery has
been great for me.
I like being able to talk withother addicts, I like being able
to hear their stories, theirthoughts and they a few of them
are very excited that I'm there.
Just like a few of them ask meat the end they're like, oh,
(06:39):
you're going to be here nextweek and I'm like, yeah, yeah,
I'll be back next week andthey're pretty excited to see me
and I'm pretty excited to seethem.
You know, it's a really positivething and although, like, I was
really hesitant to go tomeetings, even like when I first
started getting sober, I didn'tgo to my first meeting until
six months into my sobrietywhether that was like social
anxiety or like it was moresocial anxiety, honestly, and I
(07:02):
didn't really want to read thebook and do all that stuff.
But it's a humbling experiencegoing there now and like having
no preconceived notions aboutwhat recovery should be, as long
as everybody's there to be ahealthy, sober person.
I should say sober first.
But yeah, that's theprerequisite and although it is
a little, you know addiction ispretty.
(07:23):
It's a depressing thing, youknow.
It's not super easy to talkabout, but everybody there has a
positive light on them.
Even if you're only there foryour first day, you know there
is that light that things canget better and I'm really happy
to be a part of that now on aweekly basis.
You know, it's just totally.
Yeah, it's totally changed myperspective on it.
(07:44):
So you know, keep coming backis what they say, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Dude, for sure.
And NA is super cool toobecause, like you said, it is a
lot of new newcomers, even atthe meetings where they've been
around longer, like you're at abeginner's meeting, so, of
course.
But there's a lot of newcomersthat you know come and go and I
think part of what recoverylooks like for me is helping
people that aren't there yet,you know, are not, don't even
understand this language that wespeak.
(08:09):
You know how do I get throughto those people and sometimes
that is going against the grain.
It's not doing things by thebook.
You know I love that.
When Brandon got his one year,he came in and shared a unique
story, his unique success story.
That is like, you know, I got amentor and I've done a lot of
(08:30):
work.
I come to meetings but I'vekind of worked a program of my
own.
It's not like, it's not likeI'm.
He wasn't saying like I don'ttake your recommendations.
It was more like I'm doing whatworks for me and like, look at,
like, look at me, I got.
You know what I mean Like I gota year.
That he was.
You were so happy.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
I love to see that, dude, because yeah, I don't know
there's more than one way tothe top of the mountain for sure
, yeah, there is man Definitelyis and that's where, john, you
can add different perspectivesome of these meetings also
being an individual who gotsober in a non-traditional 12
step sort of fashion, and Ibelieve that that's going to be
(09:13):
um helpful for newcomers andpeople are new to the program to
see that there are othermindsets and philosophies
outside of 12 steps and inferiorwaves to get to a good spot in
life.
Right, having that perspectiveis important for any kind of
group, right, and certainly Ithink very highly of the 12
(09:34):
steps AANA.
It is by far proven the mostsuccessful program to help get
people sober and clean off ofdrugs.
You see a lot of very happy,fulfilled people that have gone
through that and it's, you know,the building block, the
foundation of sobriety in a lotof ways, and a lot of the
principles that we probablyspeak about right with
(09:55):
therapists or readings that wedo, meditations and
methodologies, are a lot of thatstuff is in the big book and
it's part of the 12 step program.
So it's good to have diversityof thought, man for sure.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Right, and that's one of the main reasons I had all
three of us on here for the.
I think this is this is thefirst time all three of us have
been on this is true podcasttogether yeah, and we've all
we've all gotten throughrecovery in our own way.
I I do think Brandon Brandonstarted going to meetings to
start out and he also got thementor, which I didn't do
(10:29):
meetings, but I did get thementor.
Muncie worked the steps in theprogram and went to meetings and
stuff.
So we all have a differentformula that worked for us, you
know, and I think it's great theway that we can all help people
with our different perspectives.
You know, which is, I think,what we're seeking out to do
with all of the work we do,whether it's creatively, what we
(10:51):
speak on, what we write about.
We're all trying to help peopleget out of the dark places that
all three of us have donebefore.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
What's it in the programs of you know, the 12
step programs, the, the, thehonesty, the open mindedness and
the willingness, those arerequired to you know, to change,
to continue changing your life,like, even after you've got
some clean time under your belt,whether you're, you know, in
those programs or not, if you'renot willing to look at yourself
(11:19):
and listen to, you know, theactions of others, then I don't
know.
If I don't know if you stand achance at that time, you know
you might not be ready orwhatever, but the open
mindedness, you know you can'tthink that well, you could think
that you know it all, but youmight not.
You know, and there's just,there's some key principles that
really I think are, theycorrelate they're, they're
(11:41):
across the board.
You know, that's what I, that'swhat I see in every aspect of,
like personal development isthese common, these common
themes that you just can't throwout the window.
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
For sure, and do you think that your perspective on
recovery has changed now fromwhat it was at the start?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Either you can go with that one for sure.
Yes, yes, because when I firstwas getting off drugs and my
life was just in shambles,recovery to me meant getting and
staying abstinent fromsubstances, with the exception
of, like coffee and, at the time, cigarettes or whatever you
(12:23):
know.
And now, clearly, like thosearen't even a thought in the
mind.
But it's how can I get the bestquality out of the life that I
live?
Be centered, be whole, begrounded, like what can I do in
my daily life that that willhelp me optimize and just really
enjoy my time here, you know,and not like lose my mind.
(12:45):
I think that's what recovery isto me now, like it's really,
yeah, spirituality.
And that's what you learn, Iguess, is once you have some
time away from drugs and alcoholor whatever your vice was that
was really destroying you,making it hard to have quality
of life.
You get some time away fromthat and you realize that, like
not all your problems have goneaway and you need to continue
(13:07):
like doing work, and you startto see, maybe what the real
problems were.
You know why you turn to thosethings and and you realize those
were never the problems, theywere your solution.
That no longer is serving you,you know.
And so that's ongoing.
The ongoing challenge now isyou know we don't have those
(13:28):
solutions.
So what solutions do we havethat are going to, that are
going to give us quality of lifeand allow us to live, allows to
feel free, you know?
Speaker 3 (13:44):
he did the thing.
He did the fucking thing.
I love that.
Oh, was that sorry?
Was that it?
It's all the way you can end it.
That's fucking sick man.
Yeah, I agree, I totally agreewith that.
So it's about in the beginningespecially, right, I go all the
way back to fucking high schoolwhen I was going to these
(14:05):
meetings and it was like we'dcelebrate time.
Okay, I got this much time ofabstinence from drugs and
alcohol, and then that's whatyou think it's about.
But you're like, no, this isabout like living a fucking
fulfilling life, right.
So self development, it'sreally about self development.
And then, once you start todevelop self and start to
(14:26):
appreciate life in the way thathumans were supposed to live
life, right, which is clear frompoison you start to take that a
step further, right, and thenyou start looking at self
mastery.
So I believe that's kind ofwhat it leads to, right, that's
the end goal is self mastery,and people that are more in line
with stoicism would probablysee that in a similar fashion.
(14:49):
Right, but abstinence is thefirst step.
That's like, if you don't havethat, you can't have all this
other shit.
You have to give up thisoverwhelming impulse, right,
this compulsive, this compulsiveurge to seek pleasure, right,
that could like once, he said,in the form of drugs, alcohol,
(15:10):
gambling, pornography, fucking,nicotine.
It could be love, you know.
That said, that's a wholeanother podcast right there
about navigating relationships,which is some shit you guys
probably know, like I've beensingle for a long, long time and
navigating relate, intimaterelationships with women is like
something they you know.
(15:30):
They don't really teach youthat, you have to learn it.
And when you're individual,that isn't used to having those
healthy relationships or shit,even a healthy relationship with
yourself, right, this is whythey recommend one year of being
single while you're in theprogram or getting sober and
clean, and that's been very eyeopening for me, it's.
So that's another element,right, it's you got self
(15:54):
development and then you've gotlike interpersonal relationship
development and building strong,loving, trusting relationships
with other people.
So you have to be verycompassionate and you have to
have a good understandinghimself in order to do that.
Because you need to make surethat you're good, like you're
good emotionally, mentally, thatyou're reliable, that you're
honoring your word and thatyou're not projecting out in a
(16:16):
negative way to your partner,right, because that's that's you
can't have a relationship thatway.
So it has changed.
It changes a lot and it's likethere's always room for
improvement and growth in thoseareas.
It's a very beautiful thing,but the starting point is
getting getting clean.
But, fuck, you won't stay cleanvery long if you don't start
the self development Right.
(16:37):
And that's what we see andthat's a lot of times, like
people and they stop going tofucking meetings because that's
their community, that's theirservice work, that's their
accountability piece and they'reworking a program on top of
that.
When they stop they theyrelapse.
And you got to make sure thatyou're putting the work in,
you're doing the selfdevelopment, that you have a
community and a strong backboneto keep it going.
(16:57):
So that's, that's my anotherlong winded answer.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Dude, there's so many directions you could go from
from all those gems you justdrop.
I feel like man because becausein this, the self mastery thing,
like I don't know if there's anan end point with it, or like,
at what point along the way,when you're striving towards
self mastery, are you content,like and like, okay, like I love
(17:25):
myself, but I know I want tocontinue, I want to continue
toward mastery and improving.
And then, you know, with theone year thing, I think it's,
there's no set time, it's, it's,it's okay, I guess it makes
sense for like a minimum right,but years you could be years
into your sobriety and gettinginto a serious relationship it's
going to throw you for a loop,you know, because, like I love I
(17:48):
, you know I love Lori, I'd killand die for that woman.
But there's always still workon yourself you need to do.
And then now you do havesomeone else's life that you're
kind of responsible for and it'snot all about you anymore, but
there's still work to be done.
So it's like that balancing actand I don't know if anyone has
(18:10):
the answers, but it's it's.
It's definitely, you know, butit's important.
And when last time we kicked it,brandon, you mentioned
something that really stood outto me is that, like we don't
want, we're not here to liveeasy lives.
You know we're not here to haveeverything just be easy.
And the things that areworthwhile we have to work for
(18:33):
and and however simple they maybe, they are never easy.
That's all I got on that.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
But no, dude.
Good, Some good stuff there,John, what you got.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
So I liked how you said that the end goal of self
mastery or there might not beone, and I'm like you're getting
into Buddhist territories orstudying Buddhism and stuff with
, because they'll also say thatI don't think there is an end
goal to that, because you'realmost content with your
(19:08):
existence, right, but it'spurely natural.
You're not forcing it oranything like that.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Loose it.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah, it's kind of like mixed with Taoism too.
Yeah, but my perspective onrecovery was totally different
from my perspective on sobriety,and I was just on a podcast
talking about this question too,because at the start of it it's
you know, I need to abstainfrom drugs.
That was the number one goal.
No matter what, I need to besober every single day, aside
(19:38):
from, like you had mentioned,the coffee and the cigarettes.
Right, that was kind of whatyou know.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
that's you can't get rid of all of them.
You can't get rid of all ofthem.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
You'll go nuts, honestly.
But what I did was I alwaysviewed it as I need to get all
of my habits under control,instead of looking at it as
recovery.
Because I didn't work the 12step program, I didn't do
something traditional.
I did have a mentor and atherapist who was 30 years sober
, who worked the program, whohelped me out through that, and
(20:11):
for me I was just looking at itlike I have so many bad habits.
All of my free time is consumedwith this impulsive desire to
drown my myself, my conscience,you know.
So instead of learning how torecover right off the bat, I
learned how to optimize myhabits and my free time.
So I knew that I needed to getrid of every addiction I had,
(20:33):
whether it was an addiction tovideo games or cocaine, alcohol,
refined sugar, energy drinks.
So I took the first two yearsof my sobriety to get those
habits in line, get betterphysical habits, running,
working out and eating right andstuff like that.
But that's not what recovery is.
Recovery is like you saidyou're looking at things that
(20:55):
used to be problems but you usedthem as solutions, right, and
after, like my two year mark insobriety, then I started to
realize that I need to startforgiving myself for the things
that I've done in my past, whichis over the last almost three
years of the second half of mysobriety and recovery.
I've looked at it like I got towrite a book on this shit,
(21:15):
because I think forgiveness iskind of my ultimate goal in
recovery to forgive myself formy past and understand that each
day I'm not perfect and I justhave to give it my all.
Obviously, like we've said,being sober is the number one
goal.
It's literally the prerequisitefor this self mastery, self
(21:37):
development.
But my goal is to just beforgiven, you know, and that's
yeah.
That's where I'm at right now.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
What you say to be forgiven is to forgive yourself,
right, because you can'tcontrol necessarily if other
people are going to forgive youExactly you can.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
It's all self forgiveness.
I can ask people forforgiveness that I have hurt,
but it's on them if they'regoing to forgive me or not.
If I forgive me for my mistakes, then that's the best I can do
as an individual.
You know Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
It's almost like the rejection of that, like I think
most people that are reasonablewill forgive you for anything
you've done, depending on whatit is, of course, but if they
don't, then even just thateffort is like can lead to
forgiveness of self right.
Sometimes that's the wholeamends process is like sometimes
you got to take that step toclear your side of the street
(22:32):
and that might not, they mightnot take to it, you know, and
that's okay, because then it'sno longer your business, right,
I think.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
But I definitely You're right.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
That's an ongoing.
Yeah, that's a struggle for metoo, John.
That's self forgiveness is yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
It's tough and it's like we're not perfect.
We've never I've never thoughtof myself as perfect.
But some of the mistakes we'vemade in our lives, now that
we're past them, we look back atthem like God damn, I can't
believe I did some shit likethat, like was I just a soulless
bastard who didn't have anyemotions, you know.
And now you're like now thatwe're sober, there's no filter
(23:12):
on our emotions anymore, like wefeel like a hundred percent
right.
You feel hurt, you feel happy,you feel these things to the
fullest potential.
And now you're looking back atyour past, like, in order to
forgive yourself, you have tofeel that empathy of the people
you might have hurt or in themoment you hurt yourself.
You know, and it's tough.
I'm coming up on five years andfeeling tough man, you know
(23:37):
when you're really feeling rightand then processing that shit
too.
So that's one of the mainreasons why I started going to
meetings is I feel something atthese meetings that I haven't
felt before, and I like itbecause it has changed what
recovery has meant to me.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
What day of the week do you go to that?
Do you go on weekends?
Do you go during the week?
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yeah, Thursday at 7.30.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Okay, I was going to say we could hit one while I'm
out there, but I'll be out thereon Thursday.
Yeah, nice, so that's a quickone.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yeah, I haven't gone to any of the other ones in the
area.
The people I go to at thatmeeting though they hit all the
meetings in the area.
It's just kind of the onemeeting that works with my
schedule, cause, yeah, I meanweekends weekends are tough with
like working out or hooping orworking on the podcast and stuff
, so I've tried to make time forthis.
(24:30):
It's a non-negotiable, asBrandon would say, so Love that.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Yeah, it's a home group man, you got your home
group.
It's important to have thatBull man.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
So, now that we have our perspectives on what
recovery started out for us,what it has become, what worked
for us, have you guys noticed adifference in how it has
affected your creativity andyour wellness?
And this kind of is, you know,centered around the
(25:01):
self-development and theself-mastery stuff.
But for people who are inrecovery, a lot of people who
get addicted to drugs are eitherartistically inclined or have
the ability, in my opinion, tobe artistically inclined.
So how has this sobrietyaffected your guys' creativity
and wellness and ambition ingeneral?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Moncy, you wanna go first.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Sure man, yeah, so I mean, recovery opened a whole
new door for me of creativity,because, you know, it was
something I always knew I wouldnever stop being creative.
It's just like within me, youknow, I feel like it's why I'm
here and I wasn't reallyattached to any purpose or there
(25:52):
was no driving force apart fromlike this is why I exist, this
is what I must do.
I always had that belief, onceI began at a young age, but
toward the end of my use, myactive addiction, I feel like I
was just like clinging on tothat and I didn't really know
who I was.
To be quite honest, I just knewI didn't wanna give up, like in
(26:13):
life and creatively, and when Igot sober and got some of my
ducks in a row, if you will, Ijust started to write again,
write lyrics.
I was, you know, writingjournaling too and whatnot.
But once I started to writelyrics again and things were
just flowing out of me, I feltlike I had new perspective.
(26:35):
I was learning, you know, fromrecovery.
I was learning new lingo, newvalues, you know, and it changed
me and I think that itdefinitely impacted my music.
It gave me like a jolt to wanna, you know to speak, to use my
voice again, and over the yearsI guess my perspective is always
(26:58):
changing.
So it's the hardest part, thepart of it that I feel like
artists get stale sometimes,that the staleness people talk
about, and I don't subscribe tothis theory that, like people
think a lot of people don't likeEminem since he got sober, they
think his music got like dryand there are many other artists
that people say that kind ofstuff about, whereas like, yeah,
(27:20):
you know, once he kind ofcleaned up his act, he lost it
or whatever.
And I think it's the ability todive into the work, like you
need to be able to fully let goand of control completely to be
creative and to feel, to getlost in it you can't be worried
(27:41):
about, like you know, oh, at sixo'clock I have to make dinner,
or at eight o'clock I gotta beat this meeting Like you need to
just fully be able to beimmersed in the experience.
And I think that's hard onceyou start like really caring
about your life and like otherpeople in your life and trying
to be better.
So I think that it's theability to detach that has
(28:04):
gotten harder and I think that'swhy people hold on to vices.
You know, for me, lately, it'sthe nicotine.
The nicotine helps me to just,you know, kind of let go dive
into the work, and I know it'snot great, but I can work for
really long hours, you know, andnot worry about like anything
(28:25):
you know.
And to be able to do thatwithout any external substance
is obviously the goal, of course, and to create at a capacity
that resonates with people, allpeople you know, or all of
what's in someone you know, andso I think that it's really
complicated, to be honest withyou.
I don't know, but it affectscreativity 100%.
(28:48):
It's just are you gonna allowit to affect you positively or
negatively?
And can you leverage thequality of life that you're
getting from these changesrecovery, abstinence, you know,
personal development and throwthem into the creative element
of life?
And once you can do that, man,the people that you could help
(29:08):
through.
That avenue is dude, you know.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
And I think that we're all doing that in a sense.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah, I'll shut up with that.
I wanna hear what you guys haveto say.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
But yeah, you touched up on some good stuff there.
So the way I kind of view it is, it's getting uncomfortable,
right?
So since getting sober nolonger relying on drugs and
alcohol I no longer makefear-based decisions At least I
work my hardest not to right,and that's a part of the
self-development journey.
So by not making fear-baseddecisions, it opens up the doors
(29:45):
to do a whole lot of crazy orshit, because you're not afraid
of how people are going toperceive you.
You're no longer afraid offeeling less than or in.
It applies to like doing liveperformances.
Right, that singing in front ofpeople, fucking playing music
in front of people.
That used to like reallyfucking stress me out, and I did
do that prior to getting sober.
(30:06):
But I drank a fucking lot, man,before those shows, like I
would get fucked up and 10, 20beers and sometimes drugs with
it.
And now it's like, dude, I cango do this shit without using
drugs and alcohol.
What else can we do here?
And that creative flow works itsway out into whether it's like
(30:28):
a sales presentation orentrepreneurial efforts, right,
I'm working on some stuffoutside of my current day job on
the weekends and there's somuch opportunity to do things
that I never really would havethought possible, because I'm
not afraid to do them anymore.
So, like you said, you couldalso use it as a crutch, like I
(30:49):
did with alcohol for a while.
And you know nicotine, I knowthat's a whole nother beast man.
I occasionally dabble innicotine, in the arcs of
nicotine and shit.
Just recently this week Ihaven't had any energy drinks,
but I was on the energy drinksshit last week and I'm like holy
fuck, because I was never acaffeine guy, yeah until I was.
I was never into it until Istarted doing it.
(31:10):
I was like, holy shit, I coulddo five, six hundred milligrams
of caffeine today.
I'm like, and I'm like, holyfuck man, this shit isn't like.
I'm like, this isn't good, thisisn't a good substitute.
So now, today, only two cups offucking coffee.
Two cups of coffee, bro.
I'm like that seems pretty.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
That's reasonable.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
I'm I a drug addict, you guys be honest.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah, I'd say, all three of us are out here for a
reason.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yeah, I was faking it the whole time.
I just wanted to be aninfluencer, just want to get
famous.
Like well, this guy makes itlook really easy.
So, yeah, it really wasn't Gomy fucking kidding.
But yeah, dude, it's easy torely on Substances for that.
But when you get good at beinguncomfortable and doing
uncomfortable shit and chasingthat down, especially if it's
(32:01):
conducive to your missionstatement, right, you're like oh
, this is a fucking, like yousaid, john, it's a
non-negotiable.
And you start doing thenon-negotiables, you, you get
really good at beinguncomfortable, which allows for
creative flow and doingunapologetic creative.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
That's the game changer right there too, because
you think of any creative fieldand what you enjoy about it,
right, like I love writing musicand rapping, performing, you
know Doing videos, whatever.
But there are so many factorsthat you might not enjoy as much
(32:41):
and I feel like I've been ableto it detach from the the ego
centric side of it and also from, just like, the desirable
aspects of it, because it allhas to get done like if it's
truly non-negotiable, it's, it'singrained in your, your mission
.
You know you have to focus oncertain things that aren't
(33:04):
really fun.
You know like there's, you know, as an artist, there's
distributing your music.
There's posting content.
There's promoting your music.
There's writing the lyrics.
There's posting your lyrics.
There's making videos.
There's.
I mean, that scratches thesurface.
You're, you know, I know yououtsource your editing for the
podcast.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Shout out to Kai Dude for good for toke.
I'm gonna give Kai some bigcredit here.
Dude, he takes care of like allthat shit.
So fucking shout out to you Kai, old house, thank you legendary
.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
So that's what I mean , and it's cool when you have
people you can count on and.
But when you got to wear thesedifferent hats though, like and
you're fucked up, dude, you, youdon't stand a chance.
You know, and even like stayingin communication with the
people you're, you're workingwith and maintaining
Relationships and being able tocount on people.
If people can't count on you,how?
(33:58):
And you know that you're notgoing to put your trust in other
people to be counted on to takecare of things for you.
And that's required To doanything creative.
And I think, as you build andyou grow, there are certain
things that you can kind of Letgo of.
You can have other people takecare of for you, but along the
way, a lot of that is on you.
(34:19):
You know, as you're buildingyour brand and in whatever field
you're in, if you want the workto be done right, you know I
think you have to do a lot of itat first for sure, and I wasn't
able to do that when I wasLiving on a pipe dream of like
oh, this rap is so sick I'mgonna blow up like not a chance,
(34:39):
dude, yeah, you're dope.
I know I'm dope.
I'm one of the dopest, there isbut that's not enough bro,
that's not enough, you know, andI recognize that now and I'm
grateful that I have to stack myskills and I have to learn
these different aspects, okay,and work with other people like
it's not fucking all about me,like how, how selfish and how
(34:59):
ego Tistical of someone to thinkthat they're just that special.
You know, we're all fuckingspecial, but we're all not
special, you know, okay, I can'tdo it alone.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Need a fucking team dude.
You're absolutely right.
That's been a reoccurring themein my In my head this week I've
just been really thinking about.
I'm like, oh, look at All thestuff we can accomplish if we
work together.
And there's a lot to be saidabout that.
I I believe that Westernculture misses that mark a lot.
It's a very individualistic,one man's journey type of shit.
(35:34):
You see these families andthese groups of people and they
work together and they all havemoney.
They protect each other's money, they protect each other's
interest and they fucking dovery, very well, right?
There's a lot of growth incommunity there as well.
So this sparks up possibly moreconversations that the three of
us should be having Outside ofthis podcast, with opportunities
as well.
I've just been thinking likefuck, we're like all on our own
(35:56):
journeys.
It's sometimes it feels likewe're all on our own individual
journeys and I'm not Quite surethat it should be that way.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Sometimes Well, I think it needed to start out
that way in order for us to healand for us to trust ourselves.
Now we trust, all three of ustrust ourselves enough right now
, at this point, for it to nowcome together.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Just don't give me an energy drink, because I'll Come
over with a gun and take allyour shit.
If you give a mouse, a cookiedude like I'm telling you it's
shit's fucked.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Next time you feel like you need an energy drink,
just come, come jump in the icetub.
I.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Talk about that man.
He's been on that.
I just talked to Muncie aboutit.
Fucking guess who called metoday.
It told me he's like alright,son, I think you've been right
about a couple things.
Our HR director, dave, is doingcold.
It's so funny you might be onlike he started meditating and
shit too.
I'm like Fuck, yeah, man he's.
(37:01):
He has some dailynon-negotiables that are in kind
of our space now right.
So it's pretty neat to see thathe's in it now.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
It's weird you say that because my dad has been
going to the health club almostevery day for the last two weeks
.
Working out now yeah good, goodfor him man, I know it's
awesome.
It's nice to see that energy,and in those that are older than
us too, because, yeah, I mean,it's just nice to see that
energy in anybody and any age,you know, uh, something,
(37:28):
something I want to touch onthat I think Brandon said with
the creativity, and there wasthis, this fearlessness to To
just dive into things, right.
And then with with Munciesaying, yeah, you got to just
fucking dive into it, you don'tcare about dinner at six or this
at eight like it's thisfearlessness in the moment, you
know, and being able to Channelthat in a healthy way.
(37:52):
Now, then I wrote down thatthere's this dichotomy of fear.
Brandon was saying I'm notmaking fear-based decisions
anymore.
When we were all using, we wereafraid of the people we were, we
were afraid of our thoughts andfeelings and we tried to drown
ourselves.
So we were making decisions outof fear to, you know, use
substances.
But then also there was thisfearlessness I'm like I'm gonna
(38:15):
do fucking whatever.
No one's gonna stop me, right,I'm literally a wrecking ball,
right.
And this, this fearlessness,ended up destroying us.
Now, when Brandon talks aboutthis higher and lower self
Channeling the lower selffearlessness of the people, we
were into a higher self positive, fearlessness manner is now.
(38:36):
We're all now where we are allat right now now our fearless
our fearlessness doesn't destroyus, it builds us.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Yeah right.
Lower self is the fearlessnessbeing like the wanton disregard
for yourself and others right.
And then the higher self isFearlessness like I'm not afraid
of anything that's going to geta like in in front of my
mission statement, Like I'm notafraid to make the choices that
I have to make that areconducive to the higher version
of my being right.
You're absolutely.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Because we trust the positivity we have now too,
because before we had thefearlessness like I'm just gonna
make any fucking decision, Iwant fuck the repercussions and
the consequences, whatever.
Now it's like we trustourselves.
We're like with this missionstatement, brandon says it's
like listen, I'm happy, I'mhealthy, I know I'm gonna do
something great and I'm gonnahelp people along the way and
(39:28):
I'm not afraid of shit anymore.
You know dude.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
I think that's really bringing me to a place of
reflection that I think tiesinto the the forgiveness aspect
of like when we were, when ourshadow was running the show,
what, what parts of the higherself were Present, though you
know, because there was, likewe're still in there and there
were things that, like you knowgreat memories, we have great
(39:52):
experiences where clearly itwasn't all bad and we weren't,
you know, just completely Lowvibrational beings there was a
there it was all mixed up, right.
So how can we like pull out whatthat was and just remembering
why those experiences werespecial, you know, and not
(40:12):
giving so much credit to like,oh, we were high or we were, you
know, it was the drugs, or youknow?
Speaker 3 (40:20):
If I shared my fucking drugs with you, it means
I love you.
Exactly yeah you can tell if Iwas like man.
That guy gave me his last lineof cocaine.
I.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
He's a real one.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
I.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Couldn't be both.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Yes, for for one community.
So I wasn't getting higher, Iwas getting lower by giving away
my last line of cocaine, so itwas working towards the lower
self.
There's there's a lot, there'sa lot to dissect on that one.
But yeah, I totally see Itotally see where you come from.
It's not black and white.
We always have when we're, evenwhen we were in a phase of our
lives where we were using thatshit there was plenty I still
(41:07):
was like I've always been a verylike, compassionate person.
I've always cared about people.
It's a lot of.
It was self sabotage and anger.
I would get spiteful and angryand I would like lash out, and
there was a lot of.
I never thought I was an angryperson until I think about like
I'm like yeah, I was.
I just internalized a lot of itand hatred and I fucking
(41:27):
directed it towards myself.
I wasn't violent towards otherpeople, I was very violent and
disrespectful to myself.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Oh yeah, same here yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
I never know either of you guys to be like violent
people either, but I'm sure youhad anger or sadness that
manifested in anger, and then wejust self sabotaged.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
I think you take so much out on yourself that
eventually you're not able to beas good to your fellow.
You're not able to be yourbrother's keeper when you're
just shitting on yourself allthe time.
And that's where that self loveand being free within you is
(42:08):
allowing you to be kind to yourmates if you will, but not to
say, if you're taking all theshit, that you're just going to
be a horrible person.
But how much better could yoube, how much more of an impact
could you have on others had youbeen.
When you're taking care ofyourself.
(42:29):
It's clearly the difference isastronomical.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Right, yeah, because, yeah, I mean, we've all taken
it.
I think that's one common themein addicts is you actually get
angry at yourself and you takeit out on yourself and the only
thing you know how to do ispunish yourself further by
taking more drugs.
You're like, well, I'm a pieceof shit, so I'm going to act
like a piece of shit.
Well, I was angry, now I'm justgoing to be angry towards
(42:54):
myself.
I'm not going to lash out atpeople, I'm just going to lash
out internally and create awhole bunch of demons in my head
and we're all just going tofight each other for days on end
, years on end.
We're not going to get anywhere, and that was what addiction
was to me for those eight longyears just being angry
(43:14):
internally with somewhat of asmile on my face.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
I think that recovery has allowed me to see past that
surface level of like.
You see someone do somethingthat maybe is shitty toward you
or towards someone else andyou're quick to be like yo, but
now I'm like what's going onwith you, with that person, you
know and you know it's deeperthan that and you feel like you
know you feel empathy towardthem Like damn, like he must
(43:42):
really be going through it rightnow because he's lashing out at
me or this person, and I'mgoing to handle this as best as
I can because I've been there.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
Yeah, once he's good with that, I feel like he gets
like on the Facebook thing.
I believe we're talking aboutFacebook a little bit.
I think once he gets some shiton Facebook, once we're like the
crazies on Facebook and you'vedone a pretty good job of like,
of being like, ok, I'm not goingto let this bother me, whereas
I know like back, you know backin the day, for me that shit
like internet trolls, dudepeople on.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
Facebook Facebook fights dog Back in like 2009,
2010,.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Like high school, like holy shit that would get
I'd be so fucking angry fromFacebook Dude.
Then you can start to just likebrush it off your shoulders,
bro.
Life is so much better when youcan do that.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Dude right when someone hits you with like the
big novel type paragraph in thecomments section or something in
Facebook you're like oh man,this is it.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
I got it.
I should read it.
I should read it.
I'm going to type this out.
You know it's been like hourstyping shit out, like holy fuck.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Tiktok's pretty bad too.
It's like Gen Z Facebook, bro.
Like people, everyone feelsinclined to give their opinion
and there's some bullies onthere, bro, it's crazy, but it's
like.
That's not real life.
You know, like, oh man, ifsomeone I don't know if I'd be
bothered in the same way assomeone said that to me to my
face, but people don't.
(45:04):
So it's like.
It's this weird, like fakeworld of like I'm going to tell
you what I think, whereas, likewe don't have thought bubbles
above our heads as we like walkthrough into the restaurant, you
see, like the waiter is like,oh, that's a scrub, we just
walked in here.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
He's not going to hit me.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Like that's what you thought but, I don't know, dude,
it's not healthy to know togive so much stock into what
everyone else thinks, Like youdon't let people in your house
just to tell you everything theythink about your decorations
and your kitchen and shit.
Like, oh, that's for yourpeople you love your friends,
(45:39):
your family.
That's sacred, bro.
And we give so much ofourselves as people who we want
to build a brand, we want tohave a platform, we want to help
people with that Right and wewant to shake shit up.
We want to live a life that'slike, yeah, we're present, we're
omnipresent, we're there, butyou got to be careful, you know,
got to be careful for sure I'mgoing to have so many fucking
(46:02):
trolls.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Now I'm telling you, I'm going to have so many Dude.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
I actually had a few of them on some of my YouTube
shorts that I put up, yeah andlike you know you're like trying
to use your platform for apositive message.
And you know which is generallywhat I'm trying to do and like,
because, like one of the hold on, I'll tell you the story.
One of the guys, one of theshorts, was a solo episode where
(46:31):
I was like, just talking abouthabits, I'm like you got to be
relentless to figure out yourhabits, the good ones, the bad
ones, how to heal them, how tofix them, hire somebody.
I was just saying, you know,you got to be relentless and I
had some guy hop on in thecomments and be like, yeah, dude
, I'm like a certified, liketherapist and all this crap, and
like you can't be tellingpeople to do that.
(46:52):
It's not like that easy, likeyou're fucking missing the whole
point and shit like that, andit was like a 10.
It was a 10 second short and I'mlike he didn't even like watch
the episode before or after youknow, and yeah, I'm just like
sitting there.
I'm trying to figure out, likehow do I'm like?
Well, I'm four years sober, soI think I know a little bit
(47:13):
about getting off of bad habitsyou know which I was trying to
be very professional about itand I typed a really great
response and he did not reply toit and I'm like, well, that was
a waste of my fucking time, youknow.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Dude?
Yeah, for sure it's crazy man.
People are going to judge youoff a one minute clip for the
rest of your life.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
You know you got a recent troll story, muncie.
Do you have anything with thetrolls recently?
Speaker 2 (47:41):
No, no trolls man, for me I mean they exist.
Yeah, they definitely exist.
It's been a lot on TikTok.
So you know, ever sincelaunching the Cypher Society, I
fully manage the brand.
I post all the content Likeit's my baby, you know.
So I have a lot of otherartists that I'm posting and
promoting and I see what peopleare saying and it's the same
(48:03):
things that people would sayabout my music that I would take
personally and be like fuck youman, like yeah, you think
you're tough on the other sideof that fucking phone.
But now it's like I have nocontrol over what people say and
since it's not my own art, it'sa little bit less touchy, you
know I might snap back at themtoo, since it's like if they're
(48:26):
saying something to me, I'm likeyo, you're a hater, but I'm
very detached from it now.
It's really helped me to seelike, wow, some people just live
their life behind a screen tohate on other people doing
something creative, and thatwill never change, you know.
But I love the creators.
I'm drawn toward the peoplethat are doing shit.
(48:46):
That, yeah, maybe noteveryone's going to like it, but
there's a lot of love in thereand we tend to overlook that
right, we tend to look right tothe trolls and be like little
bitch.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
No, it's great, I've been, I've been really I've been
watching on the top up on myfeet, but Cypher societies don't
, man.
Thank you, man.
So I do have what we're goingto say.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
I do have one, so it was recently our best post we've
done on the TicTac Joey Keyeshis verse from a recent cypher
is like approaching nine or tenthousand plays and it's got like
a couple hundred comments.
And someone was like we filmedthe cypher in Pontiac, right?
So I put that on the video.
(49:27):
And someone commented you'reway too white to be from Pontiac
.
You're probably from BloomfieldHills and pretend to be from
Pontiac.
And I was like yo, like we shotthe cypher in Pontiac.
But, like you know, these areartists from all over Michigan
and Joey Keyes is Mexican, bythe way, and he also happens to
be from Pontiac.
(49:49):
So, you're just wrong bro.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
People don't even care if they're wrong, though,
and then they'll just go into it.
Yeah, it's just pointless atthat point and then.
But you're trying to defendthem.
You're trying to do somethingsacred, like art, you know, and
I think it's funny because we,we don't art or wellness or
positivity, we don't like.
I have a lot of people who hitme up about the podcast and the
(50:14):
book and they say they love allthat shit and it's great, you
know.
And then I have like one guy ortwo people on YouTube like
fucking have a problem with onething I did, trying to help
people.
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