Brandon Kaitschuck: Finding Purpose in Pain with Life Reflections

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:17):
what are we doing?
Ah, dude, that's a deepquestion I'm gonna ask you this.
Well, I'm not doing an introfor this episode.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
We're literally not going.
No, just assuming the audiencealready knows who they already
know what we're doing, okay.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Secondly, you have two different socks on.
Does that bother you?
Does that trigger you mighthave to cut the episode what the
fuck?

Speaker 2 (00:38):
I thought they're gonna see my feet I see your
feet it just throws the wholething.
Listen, dude, would you preferI take them off, or is that
going to be even worse?

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Listen, we can't.
Next thing you know, people aretaking pictures of your feet.
All right, they're going onwebsites.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Shout out to Toad.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
You know, that's kind of a whole concept there.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Buy the foot calendar Fucking, do it, you need it,
you need it, you don't think?

Speaker 1 (01:06):
you do, but you need it.
I have one.
Did you purchase a footcalendar?
Kai gave me it because Ibrought all the homies.
He gifted it to you Because Ibrought all the homies out for
the show.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
That is a very nice.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
It was disturbing calendar.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
I showed it to everybody out in the lobby and
they're like that's gross.
That's fucked up.
There's some pretty female feeton.
You're into huh feet?
Well, you could be indifferent.
I'm indifferent towards feet,so okay, I'm indifferent.
I don't have a foot fetish, butI'm not like grossed out.
Now there are gross feet.
Right, there were some grossfeet on that calendar, I'll give

(01:34):
you that, but a lot of themwere aesthetically fine.
They were okay.
Right, your feet gross you outuh, grossed out by feet?

Speaker 1 (01:42):
no, I mean just some of the pictures are.
It's a little weird.
Did you see which one was myfoot?
I, I couldn't look at thosefeet and be like that's
brandon's foot, you don't knowmy foot.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
I don't know your real confidence.
Do you want me to take my socksoff so you can get a better
understanding of my feet?
I saw them last night.
You didn't have socks.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
I didn't have socks on you didn't have my feet are
looking gross from the runningyou see I have like a blood
blister on my toes.
You're going pretty hard on therunning thing I I could do
better.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
I could goggins it up a little bit.
I don't think you can do better.
Feet aren't pretty when you run, though they're not josh josh
harrison's feet.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
His nails just fall off or if you play a lot of
basketball.
Yeah, yeah, dude.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Well, apparently, it fucks up your knees, your legs,
your fucking ankles, my soul.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Your soul, everything it's a black hole.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
I don't even know why I'm still doing it at this
point, because you're amasochist, I know, and you feel
like in some way you deserve alittle bit of pain.
What is?

Speaker 1 (02:38):
life without pain.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Dude.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
It's not worth it.
It's not worth it, it's notdude.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
You can't have purpose without pain and
Mohammed says you have to takethat pain and you assign purpose
to it and when we get good atdoing that, life becomes a lot
more fulfilling, right, insteadof like the poor me, poor me,
why is this happening to me?
You can take an experience thatmaybe at one point in your life
you found is negative oroverbearing, and then you assign

(03:07):
purpose, like holy shit, like Ilearned that Right, it's a lot
so not sure really with thebasketball, but maybe you're
learning how to fucking maneuvera basketball better.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
I'm just here to dunk .
You're here to dunk onmotherfuckers.
I'm here to dunk onmotherfuckers, and you jump
pretty high too, from what Ihear, white boy can jump.
White boy can jump.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, who jumps higher, you or Joe Me?
Fuck, yeah, you answered itconfidently.
Yeah, I know it is.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
You know that you can jump higher Because he's an
inch taller than me and he can'tthrow it down like me Damn Okay
.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Would he disagree or would he be objectively like
okay, he can jump higher.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
No, he's going to say he jumps higher than me.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Okay, he doesn't.
But then he would say well, Ican run faster than you, and
that's fine, and you're like youtake that, you do Great.
So you'd rather be so in yourposition.
He's like do you feel like it'smore of a flex to be able to
jump higher as a young man inhis 30s?
Is it more of a flex to be aman?
I'd say both are athleticallyimportant.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Well, let's take this a step further, okay, I beat
Joe in a one-on-one three monthsago, okay.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
You did.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
I did, and I beat him two years ago in a one-on-one.
Now get this.
I haven't beat him since wewere like 11.
Holy shit.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
He's torched me Okay.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
In one-on-ones, and then finally, because I've just
been playing a lot he hasn't andhe hasn't, he's been running,
he's been running, but he'sstill got the endurance on me.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
He doesn't gas?

Speaker 1 (04:27):
He's not.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
But he's losing the dribbling and the maneuvering.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
His shot ain't there and his shot.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
There's a lot of elements to basketball.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Exactly, it's more well-rounded Right and each
person got the ball.
He would beat me in endurance.
Got you, because we're playingtough defense on each other also
and trying to score.
He would have beat me in a gameof attrition, but skill you got
the skill I got it Becauseyou're starting to master that
craft.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Right, okay, so back to the pain with purpose.
What has this experience taughtyou?
Navigating some of thesepainful moments in basketball?
You get these injuries andstuff and you assign purpose to
that and you learn how tomaneuver through it.
Because it throws it, youphysically are unable to perform
in the same athletic ways thatyou want to or that you were, so

(05:15):
it's got to be teaching youkind of how to navigate that.
What have you done in responseto some of these injuries?

Speaker 1 (05:21):
I haven't stopped being active.
So in previous times when I'dget injured, I'd be very
depressed.
I would not work out, I wouldeat unhealthy amounts of bad
food and scroll my phone playvideo games and just like that
pleasure, gratification right, Ican't do it because I hurt
myself right, so I gotta befucking the worst.
What we were talking about onthe podcast last week with my

(05:43):
brother is like you need to havean idea or a goal in mind of
what you're trying to do.
My goal for a long time of myfitness goal, I just wanted to
be a better basketball player.
It wasn't about being in shapeor anything.
To me it was literally justbasketball.
So when basketball was takenaway from me, I didn't adapt and
change my goal.
I'm like I have no basketball.
I don't need to be in shapeFitness is gone.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
There's no purpose beyond it.
It was tied to that specificextrinsic thing.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
So the last two times that I've been injured a month
ago and a week ago now I havestayed active.
I haven't been able to docardio.
I'm able to still do all of myweightlifting sauna runs
everything else.
I just needed to learn thatjust because I injured my ankle,
I'm not helpless for sure.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
So that's cool, man, yeah, yeah.
Well, there's some purpose.
I did the thing where you lookat the camera.
I was like when do I look atthe camera?

Speaker 1 (06:36):
do we look there now at the same time, edgar's not
gonna cut this edgar's not gonnacut this.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
Shout out to edgar man, fucking reels are looking
sexy this is I'm happy to be onhere, by the way.
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
I'm happy for you.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
I see all the nice looking footage of everybody
else.
And then I see my stuff on theolder camera and I'm like oh and
and the webcam it was a goodsound quality.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
I got a lot of shit for that because I like to use
my earbuds it's fine if you havethe earbuds in for listening to
the audio, but the speaking,yeah, for sure.
I thought it sounded fine, I'mactually thinking that my camera
is going to be in 4K.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
I'm pixelated.
And I'm going to tell A Nokiaphone quality.
I'm going to tell.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Edgar, to keep yours in 240p, just like really down
there.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
So fucking funny, like pixelated.
Yeah, just like really downthere.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
So fucking funny Like pixelated, yeah, and then
change your voice too, like howI'm like.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Like I'm a drug king, like on Cops or something.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
Should we do that?

Speaker 2 (07:36):
No, we're not so good .

Speaker 1 (07:38):
That'd be pretty funny man.
So It'd be so hard to listen to.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
What are we doing?
What are we doing here?
Well, that is an existentialquestion that I would almost
defer to someone of your caliber.
The philosopher man, that'syour archetype.
Like you're the philosopher,You're the man of wisdom.
You read a lot of Nietzsche,Stoicism.
I like memes, man.
So I'm here for the fuckingmemes and I hope I can only hope

(08:06):
that somebody would make a memeout of this podcast, Liquid
death.
I'm here.
I'm also here for theadvertising.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Are you gonna?
So?
I actually got this lo-fi girlmug right here, but we can't see
it.
Is that the cat?
That's the cat.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
That's Garfield.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
No, it's not.
It's not Garfield, but is that?

Speaker 2 (08:22):
something I should know, an anime thing.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Well, no, like lo-fi girls, that channel on YouTube
with the girl doing the homework, the homework the hip hop beats
.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Exactly, that's her cat.
Oh no shit.
So I ordered that just to kindof have it there.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
And then my sister got me the dragon for Christmas.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Okay, is my bad motherfucker wallet not in the
frame?

Speaker 1 (08:39):
see it okay, well, I don't really care if they can
see it I I had a feeling hedidn't care well, I don't care
if they don't see fake garfield,because that's just fake news.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Garfield, it's fake news you know.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
That's why I ordered news for a long time.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
That's why listen it's a very, very fake garfield.
It's a chinese garfield,actually.
Japanese, probably japanesetalking lo-fi hip-hop beats
lo-fi hip-hop.
That's a Japanese thing, koreanit's you know.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
What kind of vibe?
It's Asian, it's an East.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
Asian vibe Listen, it's an autistic.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Asian vibe.
Should I flex right now?
Lo-fi you should flex.
You could say that it startedin Japan, okay.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
You could say the father of Lo-Fi Nujabes.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Nujab was a composer in Japan who created the
soundtrack for Samurai Champloo,but he also made really famous
taking old beats and puttingthem through low fidelity
filters to make lo-fi.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
So this is like a.
This isn't like a genre.
Some dude really created thisentire.
I guess it is a genre.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
It just blew up like people take old like jazz old
classical Genre.
This is like some dude reallycreated this entire.
I guess it is a genre.
It just blew up Like peopletake old, like jazz, old
classical music, old samples andshit and throw it over hip hop
drums, which is what producersdid in the 80s and 90s for hip
hop.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, I was watching that thing on Netflix where they
talked about I think Lil Jonwas on it and shit Right, the
evolution of hip hop.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
That is what producers do.
But then what happened?
In the 2000s, like the early2000s and even the 2010s,
everything in music became highfidelity, like everything is
crispy.
Everything on the radio youhear is the highest quality.
The sound waves are perfect,all that shit that Muncie and
Kai do to the music to make itsound great Low fidelity lo-fi

(10:26):
is putting it through filters togive it that 90s vintage feel.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
gosh, you can almost hear like the crackling, the
crackling, yeah, yeah, god rightthat's, that's cool that's what
lo-fi is yeah, I like that shit.
You put me on that lo-fi stuff,man, like homework in the
background, kind of like you.
You had your tv just playing inthe background.
Yeah, I think my cat likes ittoo.
It's chill, you know, fuckingattacks the screen once in a
while.
He sees like a mouse orsomething on there but it's

(10:50):
pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Cat tv is funny, like with the birds and shit.
Yeah they chirp and he goesfucking crazy dude, but yeah, my
cat does that weird like clickshe's at the window clicking.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, it's funny.
It's a very primitive thingthat these cats do.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
I mean, they're just primitive individuals.
They are dude.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
They want to catch even the domesticated cats.
They want to catch a fuckingbird.
I encourage everybody let theircat out to go catch a fucking
bird once in a while.
Do you let Satoshi out?
No, because I don't want to gethurt, but you should let your
cat out and then tell me how itgoes.
Rules for thee, not for me.
He could, though, if he wantedto.
Yeah, for sure I believe in him.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
He's smart.
My cat used to get out my oldcat, bubba.
Okay, he used to declawed andhe would still catch mice.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
Stripes did too.
Yeah, they were all declawedand they would catch mice and he
jumped up and caught a bird.
I'm like you're fucking crazy.
These cats are smart man.
Talk about cats for hours.
Fucking love cats.
We're cat guys, we're cat guys,cat guys.
And I have.
There is nothing to be ashamedabout for being a cat guy man.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Anyone who?

Speaker 2 (11:53):
says otherwise fuck them.
I don't really respect whatthat girl said about that.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
I don't really respect that there was an
individual who just wasn't ahuge fan of guys liking cats and
uh, but the fact that she said,yeah, you really shouldn't tell
girls that yeah, that was ahuge l dude.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
I was like whatever yeah, just tell her that huge l
dude I love my cat I'm proud ofit.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
He's a cool cat.
I haven't met him yet.
I'm looking forward to meetinghim.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
You haven't met toshie yet you slap his ass like
a chicken he's like a rawchicken.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
You smack, smack, smack, hairless little ball sack
dude, definitely, definitely.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
It's very like I said tell us, telling you, it's very
weird touching cats with hair.
Now I'm like shouldn't havethat hair, it's unnatural.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Shave those fuckers that's what I feel about my hair
.
Yeah, you're here.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
I'm like when you were sleeping last night I came
into your room.
I thought so.
Yep, and I was touching yourhair and I'm like this feels
weird.
We got to get rid of it, yeah.
So I decided that I thought itwould be rude to not ask you
first before we shaved your yourhead.
So I was gonna by the time wedo the next podcast.
I did bring like a razor withme and I'm we're gonna get you.
I know lisa's gonna love it.

(13:07):
Man, she's her and I talkedabout already.
She hates my hair.
Why is she does?

Speaker 1 (13:11):
she really hate your hair?
No, she doesn't she loves it.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
Your hair is great.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
You got a nice full head of hair but I'm thinking,
uh, just getting rid of it all,are you really no?

Speaker 2 (13:21):
I was like, I know, I was like kid, I can't, how
would you look bald?
I'm trying to imagine right nowNot good, not good, not good,
not good.
Exactly, let's keep the hair,john.
Okay, yeah, tats, look good.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
You look good man.
Hey, I was going to ask you.
You're supposed to have sleevesby now.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
Not by now.
I told you it's on the radar,is it?
Don't you need money to havetattoos?
Yeah, I need a little bit more.
You're going to have it doneright, yeah, we'll have it done
right.
It's like by the time I'm 35,the transformation will be
fucking wild, bro.
So this is one year, but 35 isgoing to be fucking jaw dropping

(14:03):
, especially with all theplastic surgery and shit.
I'm going to get All theplastic surgery and shit I'm
gonna get plastic is all theplastic surgery and steroids are
gonna be fucking crazy likedude.
That guy changed his life.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Are you gonna start eating liver too?
No, I will start eating liver.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
You know, um, how was that cold plunge you did?
Oh, dude, it was.
It was silly, it was fun, itwas good, it shocked.
It shocked the mind, the body alittle bit, but like it's
something that I would, I wouldmaybe get into.
After saunas I do the coldshower, which is great.
I'm getting a lot offulfillment from that.
But it's definitely not a partof my regular cadence or routine

(14:34):
and I'm not at the point towhere I'm going to go buy one.
But from what I read they seemto be a really healthy thing to
do.
It gives you natural energy,releases endorphins, relieves
stress.
But that Shakti mat is like anew part of my morning routine.
I always lay on that like bedof nails and the acupressure I
feel.
So it's like I've substitutedmy meditation for laying on that

(14:56):
thing and then doing like deepbreathing and that's been great.
It's subjecting yourself to alittle bit of discomfort in the
morning getting your morningroutine done and then your body
feels like nice and stimulatedthroughout the morning and rest
of the day.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
So nice, it's cool.
I stretch in the morning I do afew stretches to open up my
hips and my legs.
And I read a little, I wouldn't.
I mean, I guess you'd say it'sa devotion from a Taoism book.
Okay, it's like a 365 Taoism.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
So is that what you're reading this morning?

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, Okay, cool, and I read that and then I meditate
for a minimum of five minutes.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Perfect.
Yeah, I love that We've verysimilar routines.
So, 365 day reading, similar.
I got the recovery one.
10 minute meditation with theShakti mat type thing,
meditation with the Shakti mattype thing, three things I'm
grateful for.
Write that down.
And then I read my personalmission and vision statement and
I believe, like other than youknow, brushing teeth and like
regular stuff, those, those arethe added extra.

(15:55):
Oh, then I say like a gratitude, like prayer type thing, I've
incorporated that mantra.
But yeah, it's a great way tostack wins when you wake up, oh,
the bed.
Of course I make the bed.
That's the one thing that we'remaybe different on.
I make the bed first andforemost.
I usually do that before orafter I brush my teeth, then all
the other stuff.
Yeah, I'm not making my bed.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
He's not making his bed.
I'm not doing it, I feel likethat's great bro.
I'm not doing it.
Think my life would be a lotmore successful if I just I'm
not doing it.
I'm actually scared of howsuccessful my life would be.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
We're gonna win so much if we make our bet.
It's gonna be crazy.
We're gonna win.
You're not gonna like it.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
You're not gonna like it did you guys go to see uh
borden b jeterson?

Speaker 2 (16:40):
yeah, I was like who the fuck is he talking?

Speaker 1 (16:42):
about Gordon Smee.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Peterson.
We did dude His talk about whatis it?
He was talking about somethingdude.
It was pretty cool.
I fell asleep.
What?

Speaker 1 (16:54):
No, I didn't fall asleep, did he tell you?

Speaker 2 (16:57):
He talked about God and he talked about from the
Bible.
He talked about what the fuck'sthe guy's name about from the
Bible.
He talked about what the fuck'sthe guy's name.
I'm so not, like you know, intolike biblical stuff, but he
talked about Moses.
He talked about Moses and theEgyptians and his interpretation
of that part of the Bible and,you know, had his Jordan

(17:18):
Peterson rant lecture.
I'd never attended one of hislectures but I felt like the
message was it was well receivedon my end.
Aiden and I both went and itwas great it was.
It was also an opportunity forhim to advertise quite a bit.
He advertised like his academyand everything he's doing and
it's cool.
Like the guys, the guys thebusinessman felt like the talk
went pretty well.

(17:38):
There was a few moments wherefeel like you know kind of went
like left field or whatnot, butit was uh, it was engaging, it
was an interesting experience.
Uh, definitely probably good onthat.
I won't think I'd go back tosomething like that.
But you know, man, there'sthere's a lot of really great
content and clips and speechesand stuff that he's delivered.
So appreciate his perspective,especially as somebody who in

(18:01):
academia had to fight so hardfor like free speech and he's so
ousted and just like anindividual that certainly has
been targeted to be like,painted a certain picture in a
different light, and I have arespect for people who can rise
above all the hate, negativityand still like, convey, like you

(18:24):
know, a very principled message.
And it's very evident that himand his wife have a very similar
vision.
They're both on board with eachother, they love each other and
he takes a stance and he backsit up by science and his entire
career as a psychologist, and Irespect that as a psychologist
and I respect that.

(18:44):
So it's also cool to hearperspective more from a
religious side, which I've neverdived into, that I never had
too much exposure to that as achild, and it's neat perspective
right, looking at differentspiritualities and faiths and
interpretations of texts.
So it was cool, it was good.
Couldn't tell you really a damnthing about it other than that.

(19:05):
Well, at least it was cool, itwas good, couldn't tell you
really a damn thing about itother than that At least it was
enjoyable.
It was.
It was enjoyable.
There were good moments.
I almost feel like I wish Icould have taken some notes and
keynotes, but it was a lot.
It was a lot, but it waswell-received for sure.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Cool.
I don't think I've ever been tosomething like that.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Like a talk or a lecture Really, because I feel
like you'd be someone who'd see,like Neil deGrasse Tyson or
some shit.
I don't know, you know, maybenot that guy.
I hear that guy's a dick.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
I think we just, I don't know, I haven't.
Yeah, I guess I just haven't.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
So yeah, I got YouTube.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
University.
I know His university.
Him and his kids started someuniversity too.
That's supposed to be reallyaffordable but actually teach
you shit.
That's important.
So I respect that.
A lot of the shit this guy'sdoing is pretty incredible
Software they're developing asoftware too Note taking and
shit.
It's neat.

(20:00):
Yeah, it's just somethingdifferent.
But yeah, it's just somethingdifferent.
You know, you can.
You got all these people thatcome in and you can go to
concert shows, keynote speakersWe've been seeing stand up
comedy.
So I went and saw Bill Burr inDetroit recently.
So Lonnie and I went along withAllison she's she's a VP

(20:20):
company I work at and then herboyfriend, bill, had a great
time.
We had we had dinner, went andsaw that, laughed our asses off.
It's like enter entertainmentman there's, there's a lot of uh
fulfillment in that area.
Create his creativity.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
it's all conducive to the mission, but I love it, you
know it sounds like a good timeit's cool dude, you ever go to
like a live comedy event, uhyeah, we actually, my buddy
dylan and I, when I visited himin california, we went to the
comedy store.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Oh, you did you visited the comedy store you saw
joe rogan you saw joe rogan thecomedy store, bro joe, again no
shit did you see him perform,or was he just?

Speaker 1 (20:54):
there.
Yeah no, I was like three feetfrom his bald head.
That's fucking crazy.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
It was crazy.
I was like, wow, dude big namesare just going in there all the
time just for fun who's thatguy?

Speaker 1 (21:02):
uh, sebastian manis.
Yeah, yeah, yeah he was beforehim okay, yeah, they were both
pretty funny there was like 11.
There was 11 comedians.
We were in the front row okay,yeah, they asked us if we want
to be in the front row and I wasgonna let dylan answer.
And then I'm like please don'tsay yes.
And then he goes yeah, let's dothe front row.
I'm like ah, shit man, that'scool well, like the fourth or

(21:23):
fifth person was like roastingus, obviously that's what it's,
what happens?

Speaker 2 (21:27):
yeah, it was a.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
It was a lady and she was roasting us for laughing,
like look at these two fuckingguys, what are you laughing for?
I'm like we're laughing, it'sfucking.
I was gonna be like you'refunny.
What do you?
What do you mean?
Wow, that's interesting.
Yeah, but everybody laughedeven more and I laughed even
more too.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
I'm like this is what happens in the front row, you
know, was it the way you werelaughing, or was it?
Yeah, I guess.
So Okay, you have an obnoxiouslaugh.
Has anyone told you that before?

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Really, I think I have an obnoxious face.
You do.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
You got like that Jim Carrey thing you can do that
carry thing.
You can do that, I know.
I think my face is actuallygonna get stuck like that
sometimes that's what my parentsalways told me, right?
What the fuck do they know,fuck you.
You don't fucking know me.
Fuck you.
Look at how great I'm doing.
You won't fight them.
I, oh I, I always, whenever Isee my dad, I'm like, I'm like I

(22:19):
got one left in me.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
I got one left in me.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
He's like get the fuck away from me I, I'm like
you're getting old, you'regetting fucking old, but that
guy can put up fucking hellaweight dude.
He's still like.
I hate to admit this shit, butauthenticity is conducive to my
mission statement.
This motherfucker can benchpress, and he actually benches
more than me.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
How does that make you feel he's almost?

Speaker 2 (22:41):
60.
It makes me feel like I got towork harder.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
So that's why I'm fucking doing it.
I think my dad can bench morethan me, but he's also got like-
.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
But that's what he does.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
He does chest and and arms, thirsty arms, 30 years,
chest and arms, that's it.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
I love that.
It's so fucking funny.
My dad does it all, he does his, and then it's all.
He's going to be just goingdownhill because he's getting
old.
But yeah, when I see him I'mlike punching him, I'm like
giving him titty twisters.
He's like get away from mynipples.

(23:11):
I'm like I'm going to get you.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
I'm going to get you.
I just like get behind my dadand I like grab him like this.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
I squeeze him and then I pick him up.
Bit yeah, you're not thefucking man.
You thought you were Out oflove, but also out of like.
I'm stronger than you.
It's competition too.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
It's competition, it's a masculine nature Once he
started losing at ping pong andgolf.
It was all downhill for himBecause he's really competitive.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
My mom beat me in leg wrestling back when I was like
I don't know, like 100 poundsoverweight and just wasted Her
and I did like a leg wrestling.
There's a video of it, kayleehas it.
My mom's really good at legwrestling.
She's got really strong legs.
I'm not sure if I could beat mymom at leg wrestling.
It's crazy, my dad beats me.

(24:09):
Actually I got a lot of work todo, man, even from like, uh, you
know we talk about vices.
So, uh, for me, I I dabble inthe nicotine arts and that's and
that's cigarettes once in awhile it was like a vape for a
while, um, not so much cigars.
I hit, you know, the zen, thezen nicotines, but that's once.
That's something that you thathas an expiration date, that I

(24:31):
occasionally pick up.
But definitely, if I'm lookingat the main hindrances, it was
really obvious.
In the past it was just alwaysfood, alcohol, there was
gambling, there was bouts ofgambling, but right now it's
mostly like, okay, I eat offcycle once in a while on trips
like this, the nicotine, butlike, all in all it's having a

(24:56):
level of control over likewinning, winning most of the day
, waking up and winning, andwinning throughout the day with
a couple of indulgences and somepleasure seeking, is just so
much greater than I could haveever imagined, and having so
much more control than where Iwas at like a year ago.

(25:17):
Dude, it's unbelievable.
It really is, because when youfind purpose outside of that,
that's when the progress startshappening Right.
It's like that's not thepurpose happening, right, it's
like that's not the purpose.
And before it was like verymuch like pleasure to consume
yeah, to consume, and this ismore of like just a little thing
along the way, like a littletreat.

(25:38):
You know, you treat itdifferently, right, but
everything has has an expirationdate and and they're kind of
like dabbling in the vices andstuff.
So you said the, the nicotinearts, the nicotine.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
okay, so I dabbling in the vices and stuff.
So you said the nicotine arts,the nicotine arts Okay so I only
dabble in the dark arts.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
The dark.
Well, the nicotine arts is adark one, my friend.
It's highly addicting it is,but I'm talking dark arts, Holy
shit how dark is this podcast?
I'm talking like horcruxes.
Horcruxes, yeah, where youhiding little cigarettes around
pieces of crack, fucking crackrock here and put some ketamine
over here.

(26:13):
We did that when I was so whenwe were kids, we had, uh, it's
in middle school.
We had this.
We called it the bad box.
I was like, do you, mom and dadhome?
Like no, we should open up thebad box.
The bad box had porn in it, ithad cigarettes, it had weed, it
had like alcohol.
I was like we just called itthe bad box, like it was a very
dark thing.
It was the taboo box that hadall the voices that a fucking

(26:36):
middle school boy would want toindulge in and, uh, sometimes
wonder where that box went.
Dude, you know who's got it.
Yeah, dude who's got the bad boxbro?

Speaker 1 (26:46):
I used to hide um cigarettes in the ceiling.
So these are the horcruxes.
The bedroom I stayed in growingup in high school was an extra
room that we built in the garage, okay, and it had a drop
ceiling like this.
So I would, yep, push one ofthem up.
You know the weed was up there,the.

(27:08):
It was mostly cigarettes for mein high school, but, yeah, I
had packs and cigarettes upthere.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Oh yeah good, oh yeah , it was great you stashed that
shit, Right?

Speaker 1 (27:15):
Well, I'm also on the first floor.
Everybody else's rooms were onthe second floor.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yep, and I didn't sleep a lot in high school just
staying up whatever, and that'swhy you sleep a lot now, because
you're fucking front-loadingall those hours that you need
back.
That's what I believe, honestlybetween the ages of 15 and 22,.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
Not a lot of good sleep, yeah, for seven years,
and I love sleep now, but it wasreally easy for me to dip out
the back door on the first floorto go smoke cigarettes and
because that room was in thegarage, technically it smelled
kind of like a musty garage yeah, it already has to smell, right
.
So yeah, you were good, we usedto smoke hookah in there yeah,

(27:57):
oh yeah, that was part of thebad boxes we used to smoke
hookah in there and my mom wouldopen the door and like it would
just be like a fucking hookahlounge and we'd be playing like
gamecube or something.
She goes the fuck are you doing?
And I'm like smoking hookah.
And she goes you better getthat out of there.
And I'm like mom, but it's notweed, it's water vapor, it's
water vapor, it's harmless.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Hookah was the shit.
As a young kid, right, it waslike kind of innocent as fruity.
It was like before vaping.
It was like before vapes were athing.
We would get hookah, which is,like you know, actual tobacco,
and all the arab kids we went toschool with like, oh, my uncle
can give you a discount.
Like come to the store, they'llsell to whoever they don't give
a fuck I loved hookah.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
It was great.
It was great that would fuckingyour head.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
You get a buzz off of some hookah too, man there was
a hookah lounge around here.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
That was just starting out when we were 16.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Okay, yeah, and it was dead.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
Like nobody was going there.
So one of my buddies and somefriends we're like 16 years- old
we just go in there and theowner's like, oh, do you guys
have IDs or something?
And then we're like, no, can wesmoke in here.
And he looks around and it'sfucking dead.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
He's like fuck man Fine whatever.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
so for like two years , just everybody in high school
went to this hookah lounge, wehad one too.
We had one too, and then we allstopped going to it because it
got really popular.
Like finally, like he actuallyhad like actual 20, 30 and 40
year old people or people oflegal age to be in there.
So too risky, we just stoppedgoing.
Yeah, obviously ours went allover the news.
We had one.
I remember 20, 30, and40-year-old people or people of
legal age to be in there.
Too risky, we just stoppedgoing obviously.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Ours went all over the news.
We had one.
I remember there was newsheadlines Metro Detroit I
fucking forget the name of it.
Kaylee would probably rememberWe'd all go there.
We'd all bring drugs it was me,everyone, all the drug dealers.
We'd bring alcohol.
We'd show a bunch of underagekids get fucked up.
We'd be doing coke there.
Ketamine, selling drugs,smoking, hookah, getting drunk.
They had a DJ.

(29:51):
These guys like they kept itgoing and going until the cops
caught on and it was like a bigbust, like they knew, like all
these kids from these highschools are showing up getting
drunk.
It was all over like Fox 2.
And I was watching.
My parents were like I'm like,oh fuck, I'm like I guess we're
not going there anymore.
No, crazy.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Close down right.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, it's nuts, dude these owners and even like
looking at some of thesebusinesses where you go in
underage and I was buying beerwhen I was 16.
So, like I would go into thisgas station in White Lake after
school, probably on the weekendsbe like a Friday or Saturday
and I would have theresponsibility to go in there

(30:29):
and buy beer Cause I I fuckingjust I sent it.
I would go in there, be likejust grab the beer, put it on
the fucking counter and the guyremember we called, I called him
ID because he'd always askedfor ID and I'd be like next time
.
I'd be like I'll bring it nexttime, I'll bring it next time.
He's like no idea.
I said I got a DUI, oh, okay,okay.
He said next time.
I said next time, id Next time,and I'd grab all this shit.
I would take two or three tripswith beer and I'd come back to

(30:52):
the party Like I remember.
I came back to my boy Steve'shouse Rest in peace and fucking
everyone was like cheeringthey're like yeah, like all

(31:14):
these upperclassmen were likethis did it.
I was like, yeah, it was likesuper bad, you know.
Kind of like I did the thing,dude, like fuck, yeah, I got the
beer and there was like a lotof, a lot of pride and
celebration.
Then I bought alcohol for fortwo girls that were stupid.
They were stupid and, uh, I wasstupid too.
We were all stupid, we'restupid high school kids, but
these were were girls, so it wasdifferent.
So they got way too fuckingdrunk.
They couldn't handle their shit.
They got sick.
And she snitched on me.
He said Brandon K Chuck broughtall this alcohol.

(31:36):
He bought it.
He bought it.
He bought the alcohol.
Mom called his parents.
So we're on vacation, and myparents got an email from an
angry mom and they found outthat I was supplying these
parties with alcohol and likethey had found out, like they
knew, like where I was buying it.
So these girls, I told themeverything, bro.
So then my dad took me up tothe place where I was buying it
screamed this is my son, he's 16, don't fucking sell him alcohol

(32:00):
anymore, he's fucking 16 andfor like a whole group.
I was embarrassed as fuck.
And then I had to start goingacross the street to buy alcohol
.
It was really inconvenient fora week.
I literally found another placeto buy it a week later across
the street.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yeah, you can't fucking stop me oh my god, I'm
not fucking leaving.
So it's, it's wild man.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Um, it's, it's, yeah, it's crazy thinking about like
that high school experience andthen also seeing how they were
portrayed like Like my.
My high school experience wasvery similar to that of like
these super bad and like thesetypes of like 2010s, like movies
and shit, with with the parties, like it was very similar to
that and uh, and I look back andI'm like I don't regret that

(32:43):
shit.
Like it, it I assigned purposeto it.
There was a lot of fun, therewas a lot of hedonistic pleasure
seeking seeking and then a lotof pain because I got myself
addicted to drugs, alcohol.
I was lonely, I was confused, Ifucking hated myself and it led
to periods where my familydidn't like me.
I was getting cops called on me.
Then they sent me to rehab andI felt like abandoned from that

(33:05):
and like I just never fit in.
Like I never fit in with myfriends that were in my grade.
So I hung out withupperclassmen that they're like,
oh, this kid's fucking funnyand these were smart kids, but
they were like dropouts.
I hung out with people thatwent to the alternative schools
that were two, three years olderthan me, that accepted me, with
all the older kids and I met,you know, older women, older,
and I got invited to fuckingbetter parties and then I would

(33:26):
bring my other friends in thatyou know, could hang and we
would basically have nosupervision and we do everyone
access to drugs, alcohol.
And then I was like you know,actually I got pretty good at
selling drugs, which was coolbecause I was the younger kid
with older friends selling drugsand it.
You, you get that validationfrom the ego and from the social
acceptance and I had that, thatvalidation from the ego and

(33:50):
from the social acceptance, andI had that, but I was never
really living a meaningfulexistence of purpose, Right.
So there was some crazy storiesand some crazy experiences and
and a lot of ways.
You know, people in recoverysometimes are people that are
recently sober and like, oh, Iwasted so much time or I wish I
could have figured this out whenI was ready.
I'm like dude, I figured outwhen I needed to.
Man, like my fucking teens weregreat, twenties were like there

(34:13):
was a lot of pain, there was alot of suffering, I made a lot
of mistakes, but having thatpurpose now and knowing that
like I did the thing, like I hadfun, we had these parties.
We had these experiences LikeI'm flexatiated in that area.
We had these experiences likeI'm flexatiated in that area,
like I don't need to go out,like I'm like, I'm like dude, I
already did and I did it betterthan you, I was better at

(34:33):
partying than you, I got betterdrugs, I did it.
I don't need it, I don't seekit, fuck that, we're good, like
we're good.
You know, I had my fill and uh.
But to go into it, yeah, likethere was a lot of fun but there
was pain, man losing.
So this is one thing I actuallyhaven't talked about.
I'm sure I shared it with youbut being freshman freshman at
Grand Valley, right I had areally close friend of mine and

(34:57):
that was Steve that I mentionedearlier and we partied his house
and his mom was like let us dowhatever, like, and he was in my
grade.
He eventually got kicked out ofschool, all turned to school.
I'll save the whole story, butwe got really close.
We partied a lot together.
I got sober he had got soberafter he went to rehab, met a
girl in rehab that he was at andthey got together.

(35:19):
They got married really quickly, super early in recovery.
She was a recovering heroinaddict.
I go to college first week orsecond week of school at Grand
Valley I get a phone call frommy sister crying he died.
He overdosed on heroin and diedOne of my best friends.
Looking, a lot of great timeswith him and like a short amount
of time too, is like we gotreally close, like I think we

(35:40):
really started kind of hangingout like two or three years and
we got really really close.
You know, same facilities, sametherapist and um, after the
party phase and there wasalignment and I got a call that
he died.
And that's just one of thethings that happens when you
hang out with people of thatcaliber that it could have been
me.
I hadn't dabbled at that point.

(36:01):
I don't think.
I think I tried heroin once atthat point when I was that age,
but I was still like 19, youknow.
But you get that call and it'slike, ok, now I'm 18, 19 year
old, grand Valley for his firsttime, come back and I got to

(36:21):
give the eulogy at Steve'sfuneral and one real positive
thing from that was when he hadgot sober.
Steve had a really big heart and, yeah, he was like dude,
obviously, like really wild lifeof the party, one of the
funniest motherfuckers I evermet, super sharp and smart but
just couldn't behave himself,dude.
He was there to entertain andget laughs and teachers loved

(36:41):
him, but he would disrupt anentire class and he would like
he'd get teachers laugh.
No, I can't contain this kid.
You know what I mean.
But you know with that there'seasy targets in school and and
and there was a girl and I'll,I'll, you know, spare her name
out of this.
There was a girl who was a veryeasy target at our school that
got bullied.
A lot Staff would join in andit's just like human nature.

(37:02):
People are fucking mean, right.
And uh, he like was reallyrelentless to this girl and when
he got sober he had made a lotof amends.
It was like part of, you know,part of the program and he kind
of jumped some steps.
He made amends to this girl.
She was at his funeral and youwould be if you were at that
funeral and you heard the wayshe was speaking to him.
It was in the highest regardpossible because he, before he

(37:24):
died, he had reached out to her,made a serious amends and an
apology.
She had nothing but positivethings to say about him.
This motherfucker hadsingle-handedly like cleared the
table, made amends and got like, got right with people maybe
God or whatever he got thingsright and he left some good
before he died and I'm likethat's a really beautiful thing

(37:46):
and I remember like crying andthinking like I can't believe
what I'm hearing right now,cause he was really relentless
to that chick and there was somebeauty in that.
So I learned that the dude hada big heart and uh, we will, uh
we'll miss Steve, but that's uh,that's, you know, something to
deal with right through your,your 19 years old, through
college, and there was a lot ofexperiences like that.
There's a lot of funerals I'vebeen to and with people that

(38:07):
partied fucking hard with manand I I came out, I didn't die.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
Could have been some close runs, but you know we were
just talking about thatyesterday, about how we came out
of this, and I was talking likeI had written it down in in my
book parables, and I'm like it's.
I don't want to call it amiracle, but we're really lucky
to be where we're at right now,to even be able to talk this way

(38:35):
, to articulate, to be healthy,to do these things, because,
with what we did in our lives,there's no telling that we
should be here.
No, dude, there's not.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
Right, there's no guarantees.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
It's not guaranteed, so you got to be grateful yeah,
for the people that came beforeus who aren't here anymore, for
sure man and, uh, you take acouple of them.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
Why me?
Why me?
I can't get out of bed.
I'm so sad.
This is the fucking worst.
How come everyone I love dies,like that's one approach.
Or you say like, well, thisperson was really beautiful.
I learned a lot from them andthis experience has taught me
this, and seeing how they died,um, I treasure my life a little
bit more.
Here's the certain things thatI can take to protect my life

(39:18):
and also be kind to others,because, also, when I die, um,
it'd be nice knowing that peoplelike benefited from me being
around and then I at leasttreated them well and they, they
can you know that they werelike happy that I was, I was
there for them and uh, I meanthat supersedes your, your
existence, right?
That's.
That's greater than yourself,like the impact that you can

(39:40):
leave on on the people that yousurround yourself with.
So it's incredibly powerfulstuff, man.
So it's uh, it's weird.
It's weird to think that we'rein our thirties, like I sit here
now and I'm like fucking, partof me still feels like that 16
year old boy fucking selling DMTand smoking it in a fucking
parking lot, and I'm like damndude, like is this just one

(40:02):
giant trip?
It gets really trippy, man, andyou hear, uh, you know, like
Gary Vee love Gary Vee.
And he's always like, oh, yougot time, you got time.
I'm like fuck man, I'm not likeyou.
You had that.
If you have that mindset andyou don't act with urgency, you
will wake up and you will be 70and you'll be like what the fuck

(40:22):
?
You know, or maybe you won't.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
I think, to look at it with the perspective like you
got time, I think so the onecatchphrase I've been using the
last six months and uh, edgarlikes it at least I didn't like
it because I'd say it um as ajoke.
But okay, just gotta ease up.
Sometimes we are too hard onourselves, I.
Sometimes we do think thingswould have been different.
Sometimes we wish we didn'tmake decisions.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Right, I could see how you telling your girlfriend
to ease up maybe be like fuckyou that would drive me fucking
nuts fuck you.
I said that to my buddy, sam,and he goes wow, she hasn't hit
you yet, yeah for sure, dude,that would be like I'd be like
okay, no, dude, treat yourselfkindly, treat other people

(41:15):
kindly, but also don't makeexcuses not to do shit now
because you think that you'rejust going to have, you're going
to get around to it.
Well, here's my way of lookingat it.
You're going to get around toit.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Here's my way of looking at it.
Imagine if you did when youwere 16, what if you didn't have
any of the experiences that youhad, because you didn't view it
as like I got time.
You're like I'm just going tostart working really hard at the
age of 16.
I'm not going to have all ofthose experiences that made me
who I am, because you wanted to.

(41:47):
Maybe you didn't end up doingany drugs.
Maybe you didn't meet all ofthose people.
Maybe you were a good student,you were a good business owner
and you did all of that shit.
Yeah, and then in your 30s or40s, like, okay, now I'm going
to ease up.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
I know what you're saying and it's interesting
because I believe thateverything, everyone has their
own journey and that wasn't myjourney, right, right.
But also I also believe thatthe same person that's 16, that
isn't me might not have to go doall the drugs and go.
You know what I'm saying.
I wouldn't tell them to go dowhat I did because it's not
their journey.
And it's an interesting pointtoo, because there are different

(42:27):
experiences in our life thatcraft us in different ages, and
I believe that there is aresponsibility when one becomes
self-aware, which it took me.
It just took me at this time,which is great.
I'm blessed for it.
Now that I understand thoseexperiences and I learn from it
and you started to self-develop,that now you kind of have the

(42:48):
responsibility to go dosomething about it and a lot of
times you're probably not.
So your brain when is yourbrain fully developed?
They say 25 or some shit.
I'm not a scientist, so I don'tknow, so, like you know, like
dude, like it's, it's different,but I also believe that you can
have a fulfilling life withoutthe side quests that I was
involved with and I and Iwouldn't encourage that, but I

(43:10):
would encourage, I guess, anyonewho is 25 through 30 that has
had an experience and we've allhad different experiences pain
and suffering is to assign anelement of purpose to that, grow
from it and and that's that'sall we can do, Right, but also,
you know, yeah, you can ease,you should always have.

(43:33):
We talked about solitude, right, and a part of this process of
like act with urgency.
It almost seems like it mightbe contradictory, but go, take
time for yourself, Like, enjoythe solitude.
If you're right, you're goingto burn out.
It's not go, go, go.
But act with urgency means likeplan your solitude, like take
control of your calendar and youdo what you need to do to
fulfill that purpose right.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Have some urgency with taking care of your health.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
That's it, dude.
That's what I'm talking about,I think everything falls into
place after that.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
That's what the urgency is and your health is
comprised of, like I put it in afew different compartments here
and you have financial health,you've got physical health,
you've got mental health,spiritual health, emotional
health, social health, which allfall under health.
They're all different aspectsof it and when you win on one of

(44:22):
them, or a couple of them,you'll notice that some of the
other ones improve as well.
It's natural, now, unless yoursocial health is improving, but
you hang out with a bunch offucking heroin addicts all day,
then yeah, you're going to havesome social, but you're pretty
at risk.
You hang out at the barbershoplong enough.
You're going to get a haircut,right?
They say that in the program.
So, be very mindful of yoursurroundings and your
environments, and that comeswith I'm going to say it, this

(44:46):
one's a shout out to Aaron KTaylor power of the pause.
And, yes, act with a sense ofurgency, and sometimes that
requires you to be like we gotto pause here, and that's that
is really taking, that's takingcontrol.
That's another element of it.
So, with the urgency, it's theurgency to pause.
You know it's like it's, it's,it's.

(45:08):
It goes both ways, man.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
It's hard to pause in today's day and age, though.
It's hard to pause in this fastpaced world.
It's hard to pause until youput your phone down and you shut
your TV off.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
But it's very easy to turn your TV off and put your
phone down.
It is Physically.
This is a very easy task.
Now we don't have to make it asdifficult for ourselves all the
time.
It might feel that way.
I'm not going to let people offthat easy.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
Turn your fucking phone off, turn the TV off and
make your fucking bed for thelove of god, I'm actually going
to sneak in to your apartmentafter you go to work and un-make
your bed.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
So, dude, if you do, take a picture of it and tag me
in, it does.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
Muncie, or does anyone have like a spare key to
your place?

Speaker 2 (45:50):
I'm not telling you who does go fuck yourself.
There's two people that havespare keys to my place, I think
I figured it out and they shallremain nameless, nameless,
shameless, shameless, baneless.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
They have no shame they have no shame, I'm gonna
find them.
Uh, you, I have a certain setof skills brandon's key.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Anyone touches my cat I'll fucking kill you.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
I'll just cuddle him.
He's the best dude.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
And then fuck the bed up.
He's the best you know.
I love how we started thispodcast with the intention of
this being a goofy like off the,and it got like really deep,
like we already talked about.
It wasn't goofy.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
It was pretty serious .
We got very serious Right.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
We're goofy, but we we're not afraid to go into it.
No, we're not.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
I was actually going to say we might as well just
keep the ball rolling at thispoint.
Yeah, let's keep it rollingdude, Because my thing was here
on the Feel Free Podcast.
Like you had said, once you getthis awareness for the things
you did, people that come afterme don't have to do what I did.
You don't have to take all ofthe drugs and make the mistakes
and go through the pain, becausewe're literally here telling

(46:58):
you that you're gonna end upwith a hole in your heart, a
hole in your soul and a hole inyour body, and pain's gonna find
you it'll just be a little bitdifferent.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Right, it's always gonna come.
Josh says this.
Josh harrison says the bad newsis always gonna come knocking
on my.
I don't need to go looking forit.
He's like if it's bad enough,it's going to fucking show
itself.
And it will.
It absolutely will.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
For sure.
So by telling people I've nevercondoned the use of, I've never
told people to go out and usedrugs.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
I have.
When I was doing drugs, rightright, right, 100% Right.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Not now, though, no not now, with the platform and
the things we're doing on socialmedia and what we're trying to
help people heal and live betterlives.
Like never condone or tellpeople you got to go out and do
this in order to learn this.
If you're gonna do some shitlike that, yeah, just be safe
that's all I can say.
Yeah, you know man what we'rewhat we talk about right now.

(47:57):
Like you had a really heartfeltstory about your friend that
passed away.
Sorry to hear that.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
I remember you well, it's a little too late, john.
I mean he, he died a long timeago.
It'd been nice to hear that 10years ago.
I don't know, I think I've beenwaiting.
I've been waiting for thismoment for 10 years you haven't
have you said it.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
no, I don't think so, I'm just fucking with you.
We actually met that yourfreshman year at college.

Speaker 2 (48:20):
Yeah, I met you after Steve died, right?
Yeah, probably because he diedin the beginning of that
semester.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
Were you sober when you came to Grand Valley?

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Yes, I think I was.
I think I was, and I believe Istarted like right when I got on
campus.
Yeah, dude, I was sober likethe first two days, and then I
met a gentleman who engaged inthe marijuana arts and I was
like I too happen to be amarijuana connoisseur, and then
we just smoked all year Dude.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
Weed was big in Michigan, dude weed fucking.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
It was huge because it was right around medical
right.
Wasn't this right around themedical marijuana time, dude?

Speaker 1 (48:59):
it was crazy coming from Chicago because oh yeah,
Dude, it was so expensive andnot as good you guys were paying
20, 25 a gram all the time inChicago and we were getting
fucking An eighth for 40.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah, and you were like what the fuck is this shit?

Speaker 1 (49:17):
What is going on?

Speaker 2 (49:18):
my one buddy was my one buddy was yelling at me
because we would.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
We would buy grams here and roll up a blunt.
Okay, right yeah, when I wouldbuy when I would have a gram and
roll up a blunt.
One of my buddies would be likewhat are you fucking doing?
Yeah, and I'm like I'm rollinga blunt.
He goes with a gram and he'slike mad at me.
I'm like I don't know, youchicago motherfuckers don't know
how to smoke weed because yougot to put least two in there.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
We smoked a lot of blunts too.
I think it's because it's aDetroit, it's a city thing.
So everyone smoked blunts.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
White grape, white owls.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
And then it was funny because we'd smoke with the
black kids and they'd never seena bong and they'd be like Y'all
, man, pass that blunt.
And we're like it's a blunt,Like pass the glass blunt.
And they're like what are thesewhite people smoking?
We were teaching them how tosmoke out of that shit.
And then you know it was areally fun meld of the cultures
Like marijuana, Like, okay, weboth understand, we like this

(50:09):
plant.
Now let's sit together andenjoy company and engage in it.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
Marijuana and music.
Yeah, a lot of good memorieswith that.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
Yeah, for sure, man, it was.
I mean, it opened up the door,I'll say with the marijuana.
I met a lot of people freshmanyear of college that I don't
remember and I met a lot ofpeople.
And there was also theextroversion and the fact that I
just fucking do so much evenmore so than today with being

(50:37):
social, like living in the dormstoo, because I was in the dorms
freshman year and it was justin and out of everyone's room
all the time.
We studied together, we didhomework together, we ate
together, we smoked weedtogether.
We basically did everythingexcept for well, I was going to
say sleep together, but therewas a lot of that going on too.
Do you remember when we met thefirst time?
I'll tell you, I remember oneof the first times I met you,

(51:00):
okay, and me, potentially BlakeLilo and a few other people were
freshmen and we were walkingaround trying to find a fucking
party and we walked over to QBlock in fucking Copper Beach
and I saw you on the decksmoking a cigarette, having a
drink, and maybe I already knewyou because I was like yelling

(51:22):
up at you and I think Jared knewyou.
That was yeah and Jared, jaredknew you and we were trying to
get in the party.
I think you kind of told us tofuck off, like you weren't like
letting us in the party, and I'mlike this guy's so cool and, uh
, I think it was because Ididn't know the we.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
It was like q102 or some right we.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Well, we were doing we let us up at the party.
Man, we're the fresh people Idon't even know I don't even
know.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
Well, the problem was evan was evan did not like me
having people.
Yeah, come in that.
He didn't know that was histhing.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
I liked meeting Evan Because right when I met that
guy, him and I just fucking we,like you would have thought we
were going to fight each other,but I knew that he was sizing me
up.
And I was sizing him up becauseI picked up on the New York
shit and people were like, dude,you can't talk to the guy.
I'm like no, no, he's likegonna like me now.
Like this is how we're.
And we got like we reallybonded.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
You roasted each other, because we just roast
each other like dude you're likewhat are you?

Speaker 2 (52:19):
you know, these guys like people didn't understand
that and uh I like that aboutevan he's.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
He's a good dude, he's smart motherfucker too I'm
actually going to visit him in aoh, that's cool dude.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Yeah, I say what up, evan, how you doing?
Man, maybe you'll watch this,maybe not.
If not, fuck you, dude, I don'treally care.
Fuck you, you're an asshole.
Anyways, dude, I told you thatwhen I first met you.
I'm the son of that club.
Yeah, no, you see, I read thema few times at grand valley.
But yeah, I met you.
I thought I met you that night.
What was your first?

Speaker 1 (52:46):
memory.
I remember jared, bringing youover once to your place.
It was either our place or wasa place in country place.
Okay, because some people livedin country place.
Or it was a place in CountryPlace.
Okay, because some people livedin Country Place Because there
was Copper Beach.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Country Place and Meadows.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
Okay, right, I don't know if the first time we met
was at Q.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
Block.
Okay, it was one of the times Idon't fully recall.
I do have a bunch of shit too.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
The first real time I spent time with you like for an
extended amount of time was itwas like three in the morning.
It was, after all, the partieshad ended on the weekend and my
ex and I were smoking acigarette outside and we're
standing down there.
It's literally like it's threein the morning.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Yeah, and they had those balconies on cuba or just
on copper beach, they had thebalconies and there was a patch
of grass.
I was sitting.
I remember that, and you andher came home from a party.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
You're like chops I like looked over and I'm like
some dude's sitting in thefucking grass over there and
you're just like sitting therelike, oh, my friends left me,
they're all like sad orsomething.
So we, like we'd like, took youinside, we gave you like a
blanket and some water and then,like we threw light.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Shows for you you did that for me twice, you and
megan like I like it'd be weird,like I'd be tripping.
I'd either be tripping ballsand alone or like really drunk
and alone like I was, somehowlike I'm still trying to keep
the party going.
And then I would find you andyou would have like rave gloves
or something and like it wouldlift me up, like I'd feel better

(54:25):
.
I'd be like john saved me, themagic chicago.
John saved me, him and hishippie girlfriend saved me.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
And then I.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
I go back like I ran into John last night and it's,
it's just so wild Like a lot ofthat's, like a fucking blur to
me, man.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
But the first.
Yeah, I mean that that year,the first two years.
We got closer when I came back.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Yeah.
So we got closer downtown,grand Rapids Business college,
business college.
That's like when, like becauseyou lived like I was moving in
with my parents and you're likeyo, chops.
And I was like, oh shit, myparents.
I was like I was like keep itchill, dude.
These guys don't know I'm aboutto sell a bunch of drugs this
year.
Let's just like.
You know, looking around,they're like these like chops.

(55:09):
You like you know that guy.
I'm like, yeah, that's chicagojohn.
He's like chicago john.
I'm like, oh, this is gonna befucking crazy I.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
I was like holy shit, this year's gonna be I'm like
I'm definitely going back torehab we had like we had weird.
It was like a roller coasterthat year.
We'd have moments we're like,yeah, dude, I'm doing all my
homework, I'm sober and we'renot partying.
And then, like other times,just like, dude, I am off the
rails right now and then wewould go back up ah, dude, I
figured it out, I'm gonna besober.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
I can do adderall on this day, and I can do this on
my classes.
Yeah, it was um fuck man.
I think I was part-time, Ithink I had, like, I missed
registration for some reason.
I was only taking a coupleclasses but yeah, we would like
get the adderall.
You and I would do a bunch ofadderall and we go to our
homework.
I'm, like you, ready foranother cigarette and then we go
out.

(55:52):
Oh yeah, I'm gonna write thefuck out of this paper dude,
Dude.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
And it's crazy because that almost reinforced
my using that year.
Oh yeah, dude, you want to knowwhy?
Because I ended up on thedean's list that year.
Yeah, right.
So I'm like, oh, I can do drugsand be a good student, yeah.
And then, lo and behold, itspiraled into just it always
does, it always does, you cankeep it up until you can't.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
I had a 4.0 um until I went to to rehab and my
parents pulled me out of school.
Like I was almost at the end ofthe semester, I went through
fentanyl withdrawals, this thiswas like I can't fucking piece
years together.
One of the years fentanylwithdrawals during finals week
somewhere around there 2017 2017yeah because that was like I
think papers, fentanyl,withdrawals Missed one of my

(56:37):
finals.
Like I like, literally I justran out of shit Bunch of group
projects that I was running AllA's in all my classes.
But I'm like, fucking thefinals up, I can't study, I
can't and they just pulled meout and then I was so bummed I'm
a fucking drug addict going torehab and they're like what the
fuck are you talking about?

(56:58):
They're like, dude, like you'redoing great in the classes but
like that is going to comecrashing down.
I was all propped up ondifferent drugs all the time and
my brain didn't have anyfucking dude.
There was no sobriety formonths.
It's like three, four months ofcontinued cocaine, opiate,
adderall, marijuana, kratom I'msure Kratom.

(57:21):
When I didn't have like I hadmy cocktail of shit.
I wake up, I would take Xanaxand then do opiates and take
Adderall and then do coke in thebathroom at school.
Like it was like that shitshould kill somebody.
And it was just normal and Iwas like like what are we doing?
Tonight?
I had my box full of whateverthose are baseline.
It was my baseline.
I knew like okay, a couple,little bit of fentanyl, a little

(57:42):
bit of xanax and adderall, likeokay, some coffee.
It's like, oh, I'm gonna bereally edgy and have some coffee
today, living living it on theedge, get a little bit of extra
zest there.
But it came crashing down.
It did, it did, it came and italways does.
Man, it goes full circle.
They pull you out of school andI'm like, holy shit, I fucking
am sad, I'm not happy.

(58:05):
Why'd you take my happychemicals away?
And that was rough and stilldidn't figure it out.
Went to rehab, came back, I didsome summer classes and got A's
.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
I think I ended up living with Bryce at what was
that place called it was on LakeMichigan Drive, the newer one,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Enclave, Enclave, dude.
You fucking man.
You're such an Allendalemotherfucker, Isn't that whack?
Sometimes I pull some shit outof my head, but get this If.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
I say something.
I won't remember what I didyesterday morning.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
Yeah, I'm like what did I do?
I know it's weird, especiallywith drugs.
And then four years I was herefive years ago.
I was here five years agoreciting the alphabet backwards
for a police officer.
This is weird.
It's weird how memory works.
So then Enclave I think it waslike I fucking feel like I got
to rehab again.
Whatever the fuck.
I was sober, moved to Enclave.

(58:56):
Then I relapsed.
My dad didn't talk to me for awhile, relapsed hard I think.
I got into Kratom's and I stillwas selling drugs.
People were going to jail.
I got paranoid.
I kept flushing my drugs downthe toilet, thinking I was going
to get raided.
That was when I fucking tweaked.
Really bad, I mean, we weredoing a lot.
You were calling me freakingout, dude.
I was so like even now, like myheart just goes up thinking

(59:18):
about how much anxiety that Ihad in that period of my life.
And you know, dude, it wasunderstandable given the things
that were going on andespecially the amount of cocaine
that I was ingesting on aregular basis and the sketchy
people I was associated withLike it was high profile stuff
and uh.

(59:38):
So then that happened, I andthen I don't.
I'll see man like, try it outwith the timeline.
I think I finished school, Igraduated, I got cool with my
dad, uh, I moved to wyomingmichigan at one point and I did
the cigarette coupon thing, ohman.
But basically then I guess Igot sick of it a year and a half

(01:00:00):
ago and I was like, okay, fuckthis, I was going to say it was
weird because we were talkingabout applying purpose to this
pain.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Yeah, at the start of this, and even the middle of
this, we were looking back on itlike these experiences made me
yeah, dude.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
And then we dabble in a this was really fun.
And then we go, then it endedreally fucking bad.
You get, you get hit so manyfucking times and you need to
get hit as many times as itfucking takes, because the fact
of the matter is that I've beenstruggling with drugs and
alcohol since I was fucking 15and I didn't get sober until I
was 28.
I think, just like before Iturned 29.
Because I spent my entire 29thyear sober.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Because you got sober in.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
December of 2022.
Correct December 2022.
It was like December 10th orDecember 11th or something like
that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Yeah, because you had just turned 29 in January I
would be, yeah, exactly so, justturned 29 in January.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
I would be, yeah, exactly Right.
So like the end of 28.
And it took a lot of pain andsuffering in different forms and
, like you're ready when you areman, you really feel it and

(01:01:17):
you're like, and you have tobelieve, because I just never
believed that I could have a afun and fulfilling life without
the drugs and alcohol.
And and that's when the beautystarted happening, because I was
like I started noticing that Iwas having good times also where
I wasn't drinking and doingthings that I enjoyed, like my
purpose and my mission.
And I was like, well, like likemy purpose and my mission.
And I was sort of like well,like when I do this with my band

(01:01:39):
or we have like a really goodsession, or I have a deep,
meaningful conversation, or Ihelp someone with a problem or I
sell something, like I wasgetting the same feeling, like
it's not the same differentfeeling, but a more fulfilling
one, because it was rooted inpurpose, without the drugs and
alcohol, which signaled in mybrain like oh can, actually, you
can do this without beingfucking drunk and it's, it got

(01:02:04):
the ball rolling.
So it was on my, especially withthe alcohol before I got off
the opiates Cause I knew the, Iknew the opiates had an
expiration date Like you can'tlike in your head as someone
who's like abusing, like opiatesand shit, you know like this
isn't a socially acceptablething.
This is something that like isa no, no it's.
It's taboo for a reason.
The alcohol is a littledifferent.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
I was going to say.
You said socially acceptable,like the opiates.
I wouldn't even say go furtherLike this isn't humanly, it's
not humanly acceptable.
This isn't good for me.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
No, it's pretty objectively bad, like most
people.
Would you know what I mean.
So with the alcohol it's alittle different.
Like oh well, he has a few.
Like alcohol is so fuckingnormalized.
So for me I was like I don'twant to take that away.
It's such a social part, it wasa part of everything we fucking
do.
It's the only thing you hadleft, it's all I had left.
But then I started seeing thepieces of me enjoying my time

(01:02:52):
without alcohol and I startedseeing also the other end.
This is making me a lot sicker.
My heart hurts.
I'm getting acid reflux reallybad.
The hangovers are way worse.
I don't get anything Like Ijust noticed like, dude, the
fucking cons are way outweighingthe pros right now, so that
that was festering all duringthis.
And then I had that huge, likeyou know, heroin tirade for two

(01:03:14):
weeks and then by that time likeI'm good, I'm like I'm fucking
good.
Now I know what I have to dobecause I've been through here.
I know who I have to find, Iknow who I have to talk to.
I've already got good morningroutines.
I just need to find someonewho's going to help me with the
sobriety piece and theself-development and I need to
get.
I need to get in shit, like Iknew, and I just had to find

(01:03:35):
someone that was really that Iwas going to connect with and
that was going to fucking holdme accountable and say listen,
motherfucker, I was there,here's what we do.
You're going to fucking win.
Right now.
You fucking hate yourself.
Mo had to say you don't fuckingrespect yourself and that shit
hurt.
And then I assigned purpose toit and now I'm with John.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
Now you're here on feel free.
Feel free not respectingyourself.
It's a big one.
I think a lot of peoplestruggle with that too.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
Oh, dude, it's a tough pill to swallow, it is.
You don't fucking respectyourself.
And I was like, well, I kind ofdo, I'm like does that sound?
And I'm like, holy shit, thatdoesn't sound like somebody
who's very confident.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
No, not at all no dude, I fucking hated myself and
that was a big part of why Iwas using drugs and alcohol in
the first place, the same withme, you know, I wanted to like
we all we reached that point atdifferent parts in our life
absolutely dude, and for me, Iall, we, we both had enigmas,

(01:04:35):
enigma we had.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
Mine is an enigma, john.
My mind is you caught that,don't you have to be stupid.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
Somewhere else, not until four, I was gonna say that
you had chops and I had chicago, john yeah, I wanted to just
fit in, and then even in the thelater stages of my addiction it
wasn't about fitting in,because I was using more
profusely by myself, correct Inisolation, correct Right.

(01:05:01):
So when I wanted to get sober,it was tough for me to let go of
the booze too, because it wassocially acceptable.
And the weed and the cocaine atthe end of it.
And then I started to realizethat I told myself I don't care
if anybody on this planetdoesn't love me.
I have to love me.
Yes, that's it.

(01:05:21):
I don't care If I give updrinking and weed, if I give up
these things and I end up losingfriends and family or people
don't want to spend time aroundme because I'm sober.
As long as I love myself and thetime I spend with myself, then
that's all I could ask for, andby doing that, it now affected
all of my relationships in apositive manner, For sure dude,

(01:05:44):
for sure you have to let gobefore you can gain, and that
was like the something that Iread.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
Well, I actually saw that.
I saw that from an influencerthat we talked a little bit
about earlier.
I'll give a shout out.
Yeah, wes Watson, it's aboutlosing, like you have to like
let go of shit, and that's likevices and things that you can't
control.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Expectations.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Expectations is a huge one man.
Expectations are things youcan't control and there's a lot
of freedom and it strengthens.
The beautiful thing, too, is itstrengthens those relationships
that are really important, likethey blossom into something you
can't imagine.
The relationship that I havenow with my parents and even
being I always thought I waslike a good brother and a good
friend and I'm like and therewas a lot of I was fortunate

(01:06:33):
enough to have people that werereally patient with me and you
know, also still like havefriends that were in recovery,
like you and Muncie, that wekept in touch with.
But even our friendships havegrown stronger as a result of
the sobriety which is to beexpected, right, true friendship
.
Yeah, absolutely man, somethingthat's not rooted in drugs and

(01:06:54):
alcohol.
Luckily we had that Me, you andMuncie had that Even though we
all had points different pointsin our lives where we used drugs
together.
That was like cool.
We bonded over that.
But it went deeper than thatand that wasn't the case with
everybody that I did drugs with.
Some people were like this dudeis a fucking fun time, bro, and
I'm trying to see thatmotherfucker tonight like it's
fun, it's all pleasure seeking,but it's like you have those

(01:07:17):
deep, deep, intimate bonds withpeople and that's really special
and that will always supersedeany of the other stuff, right?

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
it's just prioritizing that instead of
seeking pleasure or seekingacceptance socially.
It's you just got to respectand love yourself first.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
Yes, that's it and truly and truly feel that.
And the only way you get thereis by is by stacking those wins,
doing what you say you're goingto do, like making commitments
to yourself, and followingthrough, because if you don't,
then that's showing already thatyou don't respect yourself.
You have you have to prove itby actions, working on your
health alignment all, all ass,all facets man all fucking

(01:07:59):
facets.
It's fucking amazing.
So this is fucking great thisis a great.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
I'm stoked to be here .
You said that like 10 times.
It's fucking true.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
I'm fucking, it might seem silly.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
I'm just excited to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
I'm just stoked.
It's been like my newcatchphrase kaylee always makes
fun of me because I went throughthis for a few years.
I have like a differentcatchphrase, I guess I would say
, and lately it's been I'm juststoked to be here.
People ask me like how are youdoing?
I tell them and they smile andthey laugh Like I'm just fucking
stoked to be here.
I'd be like Panera Bread andthey'll be like what fucking

(01:08:31):
stoked to be here.

Speaker 1 (01:08:32):
I'm a sip club member and then they're like stoked
about that, all right, andthey're like this dude's fucking
probably high.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
I'm like I am actually the opposite and it's
crazy because it's just.
It's so funny how that happensbecause you meet people at a and
they're like they're all cheery, happy, like oh god, or fucking
weird bro.
Like they're in a fucking cultand they're just bullshit.
You know whatever.
Like jesus freak, you get this.
You put the stereotype onpeople, and, I think, unhappy

(01:08:58):
people.
It weirds them out to seepeople that are like super
stoked and happy.
Oh yeah, it does, and that's.
It's always a reflection ofself.
So if I'm in traffic and I'mlike man, fuck that old person.
I'm like I'm like what happenedtoday?
I talked to myself.
I'm like are you out ofalignment?
And I talked myself through.
I have a mom like listen, I'mlike that wasn't very nice.
That lady is old and she's paidher dues to society and she

(01:09:20):
maybe didn't see you there.
It was not intentional.
Like it's fucking stupid.
It sounds stupid, but it'seffective.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
Talk yourself down, dude, you got to have those
conversations no one else isgoing to have those
conversations with you whileyou're alone in your car.
If they do, it's like what areyou doing in my fucking car?
We got a bigger problem.
Now Get the fuck out of my car.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
Or just drive off the highway.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
Yeah, I'm killing us, paul.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
I'm killing all three of us.
This person that broke into thecar just to you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
Me and my lower self are dying right now.
Holy shit, this guy's fuckingcrazy.
I shouldn't have broke intothis guy's car.
You picked the wrong car,motherfucker, fucking crazy
that'd be fucking nuts yeah, oh,it's so fucking funny.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
There's a joke in everything, man there is uh, but
it's 2024 and we're not allowedto do jokes anymore.
I'm sorry, that's just how Ifeel that's not true.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
and after bill burr's set, fucking, dave chapelle
said I watched that on Netflix.
I was crying.
You guys, just I love it.
I love people.
Don't take your foot off thegas, man, don't.
No, don't do it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
Keep going, keep going.
Pedal to the metal.
Know your audience too.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
You Feel Free, I don't know how to drive a stick
shift.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
Me neither.

Speaker 2 (01:10:39):
Oh, you don't.
No, oh, okay, I thought youcould only like.
It's like a determination ofyour masculinity to be able to
drive a stick shift.
I think I saw that on somevideo or something.
It's like if you can't drive astick shift, if you can't drive
a stick shift.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
If you can't drive a stick shift, then you can't
drive a stick shift.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
I've been in the union for 50 years I've been in
the union for 50 years, america,that's so funny man.
We all got our interests man.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
Yeah, I don't have time.
You don't allocate time.
I don't allocate time.
You have time, but I choose notto use it that way.
I can't pencil it in.
I can't pencil it in.
Yeah, okay, I just can't.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
Yeah, yeah, I choose not to pencil that one in it
either.
My friend, there's, there'smuch I'd rather you know, dude,
like it's just a plethora of.
Like it's like books, podcasts,right, even feel free, it's
like a hundred percent, likethat's like going to be higher
on this stuff, like when I hadfree time watching a Feel Free
podcast, driving a stick shift,dude, like way at the bottom.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
Way down there, way at the bottom Way down Listen.

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
But I'm going to say, if you have someone on your
next podcast that's talkingabout driving a stick, shift
your podcast goes way down.
I know I'm not proud of it.
Don't have anyone on here thattries to talk about.
I will fucking cancel you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
I think I'm going to bring in a stick shift
enthusiast.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
Can you imagine a more boring fucking podcast?
Why are you getting all thishate?
The stick shift enthusiastInstagram page is going to be
talking shit.
Someone, please create a stickshift enthusiast Instagram page
and just fucking troll John inthe comments.
Just fucking light him up withshit.
Come on the podcast.
We're fucking sick of youhating on stick shifts.

(01:12:17):
Automatic transmissions arefucking overkill.
You're a bunch of fuckingmorons.
You don't appreciate classiccars.

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
Fuck cars some people I see in the parking lot after
the gym and they're likestopping and looking at a really
nice car and like a nice areawhere there's an la fitness and
they're just likeing out overthis whip and I just walk past
and they look at me while I'mwalking past and then they keep
looking back at the car.
I'm like what do you want me tosay?
It's a nice.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
That was really rude, that he did not say how nice
this car was.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
Did you see the rims on this?

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
thing that one's a beauty.
Where'd you get her or I mean Idon't know called a non-player
playable character?
Npc?

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
yeah, totally yeah, yeah, big npc vibes so we, we,
we experienced that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
Um, my sister and I, and we just thought this is so
funny.
Her and I both looked at eachother.
We're, we're in florida, we'rewalking with uh, you know,
behind my mom and dad they'rewe're walking with.
You know, behind my mom and dadthey're walking, we're walking
this trail.
It's a bunch of old people.
It's so funny, like there was aMichigan-Michigan State game
that day and there'sconversations with all these old
people and my dad's like goblue.

(01:13:28):
The guy's like go green, andlike everyone just kept saying
it to each other.
I'm like go blue team, go greenteam, ha ha ha.
No, that's a good one.
Go blue, go green.
And like they had like spartanpeople and like michigan people
and I'm like she's like dude,total npc.
I'm like, okay, it's likeyou're just programmed, like I
like blue, I like green, ha ha,we can still have a conversation
yeah, it's, uh, it's mostsporting events.

(01:13:49):
It's a very you know, and not,you know, not to shit on.
I think it's great to supportpeople in sports.
It's very impressive whatprofessional athletes are
capable of, but yeah, it's just,it's definitely something
that's.
It's funny to me it's kind offunny to be like an observer of
is like the haha go blue, hahago green and you apply it to
political parties or anything.

(01:14:09):
I'm just like yeah, holy shitman.
What the fuck?
So this or that type of.
Thing it's a this or that thisis us versus them.
This is them versus us.
All right team, we're a redteam, we're a blue team, we're
going to go team.
Better than that team, go team.
That's essentially what it is.
What do we stand for?
I don't really know, but I wasborn in this geographic region,
so I subscribe also likecompetition I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
So we used to go to like war all the time on the
planet and that was likecompetition for societies about
settlers of katan.
We talked about actual chetlersof katan chetlers, chetlers,
okay, chetlers of katan.
Okay, I'm just saying, like weused to, war used to be like a
thing, like used to be a thing,used to be a more.

(01:14:56):
It used to just happen all thetime warring tribes, warring
villages, warring states,warring countries and shit, like
it's not.
War isn't.
War now isn't what it used tobe, right.
So now humans still need thatcompetition.
So they created sports.
Okay, right, that's just what Ithink.
Okay, it's like you that, ah,we're over here and you're over

(01:15:17):
there type of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
I'm going to kill you for your resources.
After this podcast, I'm takingall this camera equipment.

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
I'm going to Viking the fuck out of this shit.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
The podcast ends up trying to kill each other, but
we got to upload it before Fightto the death.
It's like what the fuck?
It's like interdimensional andanother and another plant in an
alternative universe, what theycall parallel universe.
Yeah, you and I fight to thedeath, and that's the podcast.
I think people would watch that.
People would watch some sickshit People are inherently
curious about, especiallyregarding the more morbid sort

(01:15:48):
of taboos of society.
For sure, it's very.
It's like psychology is sointeresting All these studies
they do.
So, yeah, people wouldcertainly watch people, I'm.
Is that a thing?
Is that death fighting a thingthat you can watch?
Not really anymore.
It's not.
It's not.
There has to be someunderground market for like
people that kill each other andlike people watching that yeah,

(01:16:10):
I would imagine on some levelthat has existed somewhere.

Speaker 1 (01:16:12):
yeah, you just, you just watch anime or TV shows
where they do it Anime is prettyviolent.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
Some of it it is you know You're a sick.
Fuck man, I'm a sick fuck.
You got to do better in therapy, you got to bring up the
therapy.
My friend says I'm sick becauseI watch anime.
I'm a sick bastard.
You should be like listen now.
It's not that you're sick, it'sthing right, all it is right.

(01:16:39):
Ocd, adhd, everything.
I got the whole thing.
It's pretty deal, it's good.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
well, it's like a superpower if you use it the
right way, right, otherwise it'sa bit of a hindrance.
It can be.

Speaker 2 (01:16:44):
It can be you can't navigate, but if we look at
everything that we have in thelens of like, this is a
disability.
This prevents me from that.
You, we just gotta fucking makeit work for ourselves, right?
This is what mo says.
Is you?
You, the goal is to make yourlower self your bitch and to
serve your higher self.
Right, you're going to haveboth.
You're going to have the yinand the yang, for sure.
How do you leverage that?

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
I think that is a good topic that we can do on the
next episode.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
I thought we should do five more hours on this
episode Five more hours.
I'm down with that this hasbeen a thorough conversation man
, I think so too, we got theball rolling, we went there.

Speaker 1 (01:17:17):
I think that this is a good time.
We're going to switch it up.
All right, we're going to takea little bit of a break.
Fuck yeah, man.
Appreciate everybody listeningto that conversation.
Thanks for coming by.
I'm just stoked to be here.
He's stoked to be here.
We are going to be back withanother feel free episode.
So you all know the drill Stayup, feel free, love that Cool

(01:17:40):
and make your fucking bet.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
Make your fucking bet .

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