April 29, 2024 • 39 mins
DISCLAIMER: FEEL FREE and Jon Cerone do not condone the use of drugs and alcohol for recreational use and also believe that people are responsible for their own actions and should use at their own discretion. This episode may be triggering to those who have dealt with addiction or who are in recovery. If you struggle with mental health issues or addiction then please seek out professional help in order to help you through your struggles, just as Jon Cerone did with his. The episode talks about Jon's partying days and instances from his past that led him to recovering from addiction and getting sober. Him and his guest reflect on how these experiences made them who they are. Again, please listen to this episode at your own discretion.
The echoes of Chicago Jon's past reverberate through the airwaves as I, Jon Cerone, team up with my friend Jacki to unravel the intricate tapestry of a life once entangled in substance use, now illuminated by the light of sobriety.
We talk about Jon's run in with psychosis and addiction, and also his skills with flow art (gloving and poi) and rapping.
As the curtain falls on this introspective saga, gratitude takes center stage. The Chicago Jon persona may have evolved, but the spark of trying new things and the healing that comes through creative expression remain undiminished. We beckon you to join us on this continuing narrative, a tribute to the resilience of the human spirit and the unbreakable bond of friendship that has been our compass. Stay with us; more stories await as we carve out a space for growth and reinvention, keeping the heartbeat of Chicago ever-present.
There's a lot of love, reflection and forgiveness in this episode!
We hope you enjoy it!
Stay up, and FEEL FREE!
Follow Jon Cerone and The FEEL FREE Podcast
Parables: Musings From an Addict on the Journey Toward Wholeness on Amazon:
https://a.co/d/iWp2X6D
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/joncerone/?hl=en
Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/people/Jon-Cerone/100075476931880/
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP5j0_wqY2yj-2JyXU_27iQ
TikTok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@joncerone
https://www.tiktok.com/@feelfreeclips
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jon (00:00):
Yo, yo, what's up.
Welcome to Feel Free, the onlypodcast that'll tell you to
chase your dreams and call youout on all your bullshit.
I'm Jon Cerrone.
I just wanted to give a littledisclaimer at the start of this
episode.
It is different from a lot ofthe episodes that we have done
previously.
This is the first episode for alittle series called Chicago Jon
(00:22):
, which does talk about my pastand my using days.
I will be bringing friends onin order to talk about the
things I had gone through.
There will be the good and thebad side.
I just wanted to leave thisdisclaimer at the start of the
episode to let everybody knowthat in no way, shape or form
are we telling people to go outand use drugs or alcohol.
(00:43):
If you have a problem, pleaseseek the professional help out,
like I did in order to get sober.
With that being said, ifanything is triggering to you in
recovery or addiction or mentalhealth in general, you don't
have to listen to this episode.
Wanted to throw that out therefor anybody who might be
struggling with that.
You still want to listen to theepisode.
It is a good one.
Really enjoyed recording thisepisode actually.
(01:04):
So without further ado, let'sget into the episode.
So I brought you on herebecause you were there for a lot
of the partying that I wasdoing during the time where I
was using.
I had an alternate persona,nickname that was given to me at
college called Chicago John,and because there were two,
(01:29):
there were two Johns in ourgroup at the time and people
wanted to call us differentthings.
That didn't mix us up, so myone friend was Papa John and
then I am Chicago John, chicagoJohn.
So then there was also anotherpersona that I had come up with
(01:50):
too during my psychosis.
That was called Evil, but we'llprobably get into that a little
bit later.
Evil, evil, e-v-o-l.
Love spelled backwards.
How you doing so?
When did we meet Jackie?
Jacki (02:04):
2012.
We were trying to figure outexactly what month yeah, we were
, but it was definitely 2012,very early into my husband and I
starting to date Because youwere obviously one of his best
friends.
Right and I was going to schoolat UIC.
Right With also another one ofyour best friends, exactly.
Jon (02:29):
So the whole squad was actually at UIC in.
Jacki (02:31):
Chicago and I was actually in Michigan.
Jon (02:32):
I was yeah, I was in Michigan for a while, so the
first half of my freshman yearat Grand Valley I wasn't doing
like any drugs, I didn't evensmoke weed.
I was still like a jockfreshman year of college.
Jacki (02:43):
No, you're right, it actually was my junior year.
Jon (02:45):
Yeah, I'm remembering it now.
Yeah, but then after the summerof 2012, which, like you know,
our friends talk about, you know, the summer of 2012,.
Which was ridiculous.
2012 was the year 2012 was theyear I was sober for one day in
the summer of 2012.
I remember it too.
Everybody of 2012.
I remember it too.
Everybody had weird things togo do, like family events and
stuff.
I couldn't hang out with any ofour friends and everyone was
(03:09):
gone.
And I'm just sitting at myparents' house and I'm like I
don't have any weed or nothing.
I'm like I guess I'm watchingTV today.
That's what I did.
Every other day was filled withsomething, though.
Jacki (03:19):
You know we're not going to get through this either
without talking about how greatyou were becoming at like
gloving and like all the lightsthat everyone was throwing.
Jon (03:28):
I didn't even think about that too.
You got to talk about thelights, right, the lights are so
important that is actually partof the persona yeah so when, uh
, people gave me the personachicago john or the nickname
chicago john, and it was atgrand valley, it was the kid
with the drugs and the kid withthe gloves, you know because
your talent show.
Jacki (03:49):
I'm sorry, I'm just jumping around.
The talent show was a few yearslater yeah right, uh keep going
.
Jon (03:56):
Uh, I still wish, like I was like gloving or spinning poi
more.
But you know that's whathappens with hobbies that you
let go of, but uh, muscle memoryyou just gotta pick it up again
.
Yeah, it was.
I remember coming home freshmanyear of college and because
grand grand valley ended wayearlier than everyone else, we
(04:17):
ended like almost a month beforeother colleges.
It was crazy because we startedearly and we had less days off.
So so like at the end of AprilI come home and the fuck are
those fucking gloves?
Man.
Holy shit.
I'm like can I try them?
And that that sent me off.
I was like this is probably themost exciting thing I've ever
(04:39):
been.
A part of, yeah, putting thegloves on for sure.
A part of, yeah, putting thegloves on for sure.
Jacki (04:47):
and then everybody got into spinning poi and gloving
and all these other forms of uh,we call it light art or flow
art.
Oh, yeah, yeah, some staff,some hoops, all kinds of whips
and shit.
Jon (04:55):
It was nuts, yeah, um everyone loved the lights love
the fucking lights and thatbecame a huge part of my persona
too, I believe in the summer of2013,.
Like I would just walk aroundwith gloves on.
Jacki (05:10):
They were on.
Even if you weren't wearingthem, they were still on you at
all times.
Jon (05:14):
Yeah, for sure.
Jacki (05:15):
Your pocket, your backpack, your car.
Jon (05:16):
Always had them Didn't matter.
Yeah, they were somewhere, justin case you had to throw a
light, show, you know, and to behonest, we would go to shows
sometimes where they wouldn'teven you know.
Jacki (05:23):
They're trying to like not promote drugs, so they don't
want anyone bringing gloves,and you'd still find a way to
get them in.
Jon (05:28):
I'm bringing those motherfuckers in.
Jacki (05:30):
What the hell everyone still had their lights, hell
yeah they.
Jon (05:35):
They definitely started cracking down more in the later
years, though oh yeah that'sactually why you amazing lights
went under yeah, things started,yeah, getting uh crazy.
Jacki (05:44):
They stopped letting you buy those drug test kits at
places and they started makingout all the see-through
backpacks and stuff I mean, Iget it, but at the same time,
like they made the thing isthey're gonna do drugs anyways,
so they just made you not beresponsible anymore, but that
anyways.
That's not what we're talkingabout right.
Jon (06:01):
Um, yeah, I, I was doing the gloves.
I had this like Chicago Johnpersona where I was like I want
to be a rapper and I'm going tobe a dancer and an entertainer
and I'm going to be famous andstuff like that.
Jacki (06:14):
You still kind of have those things in you.
That wasn't just like a drugthing.
You're right, like you actuallyare very good at rapping.
Jon (06:21):
I appreciate that.
I think you mentioned on anepisode.
You're like you gotta rap on anepisode.
Jacki (06:27):
Yeah, this is not a John podcast until there's a rapping
episode.
Jon (06:31):
I told you I rapped on somebody's podcast, though.
Jacki (06:34):
Yeah, but.
Jon (06:35):
You gotta do it on mine, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I'll come up with a wayto play a beat through here and
I'll rap for people.
I'm going to come up withsomething, though.
I will do it.
I haven't lost those things,though the persona might have
changed to Jon Serone, but itstarted with Chicago, jon.
Jacki (06:51):
There's each pieces of you, you know.
Jon (06:53):
For sure you know I would never.
Once I got sober too, I almostfelt like at the start of your
recovery you almost feel ashamedof the things you've done, of
course you know, and you kind oftry and bury them, which is why
I stopped gloving or like I'vefallen away from EDM music.
But, like later into myrecovery, where I'm at now, it's
(07:15):
like these are things to likebe embraced, you know,
especially, like you know,chicago, john.
Of course my parents have likesomething to say about.
Oh, I'm sure, yeah, you knowthat that side.
But we're here to talk mostlyabout the good times, though,
because I don't want to like,like I said on the episode with
(07:36):
Edgar, like I don't talk shitabout drugs or doing them on the
podcast because I wouldn't bewho I am without them.
Did they cause a lot of painand negative consequences?
For sure, but if I'm going tohold regret over my actions and
stuff, then I'm going to hold onto that pain and completely
(08:00):
sidetracked from the episode.
But I am trying to write a bookon like forgiveness and stuff
so that'sawesome in in order to like not
resent yourself and forgiveyourself for those actions.
You probably shouldn't regretthem, right?
So?
Which is why I'm okay doingthese chicago john episodes now,
you know, because I still loveto rap, still to dance, still
(08:23):
love being a goof.
You know, I had to let go ofthose things at the start of my
recovery because they held notonly the good memories but the
bad ones as well.
But now I'm able to embrace allthe memories.
I'll be on stage with my glovesone day.
I know that for a fact.
Jacki (08:42):
I expect nothing less.
For sure you always had the afact.
Jon (08:45):
I expect nothing less For sure.
Jacki (08:47):
You always had the lights even after you've been sober.
Jon (08:50):
I know, yeah, there's just a time where, like the Chicago
John phase, like I was glovingrelentlessly.
Jacki (08:56):
Oh yeah, Obviously, it's like a big difference.
Oh yeah, but I just thinklights are always like a part of
you.
Jon (09:02):
Right, I mean I got the light up sign.
Jacki (09:03):
That's what I'm saying.
Jon (09:04):
I'm pretty sure that's why they got me that too.
Jacki (09:07):
Of course, sober or not, lights are the best Lights are
tight.
Hell yeah.
Jon (09:16):
So I guess, where should we start with more concrete
memories, because we were tryingto jog each other's memories.
Before there were a fewapartments we would spend time
at, you know, with a lot of ourfriends having really good times
, what.
I guess, where should we gowith this?
What do you think?
Whatever you want?
So because Electric Forest was2014.
Jacki (09:36):
That was a big one.
Oh yeah, there's for sure, butthere's, I mean, are you trying
to go in timeline?
I mean, I guess it doesn'treally matter, but well, we met
in the fall of 2012.
Jon (09:46):
Yeah, right.
Jacki (09:47):
All of our Michigan memories are before Electric
Forest.
They are.
Jon (09:51):
Yeah, I still remember New Year's being really crazy
because I'm going to be honest,like I came home for that winter
break and I was tripping a lotthat year.
And I was tripping a lot thatyear and that was when I first
put the gloves on, when I was atmy parents' house and I like
started like dancing and rappingto like a song and I was just
(10:13):
like and I could see myreflection in the TV and I'm
like I could totally fucking dothis.
And then for New Year's we weretripping real fucking hard and
that's when I like I was likereally getting into the whole
standing up and gloving.
That's when I like I was likereally getting into the whole
standing up and gloving because,like most people who give light
shows will be like kneeling orlike in your face and stuff, but
I liked standing in front ofeverybody, like performing oh
(10:36):
yeah, like in front of a room,yeah exactly, and I remember
that new year's was when I I hadfirst started doing that
tripping the buns, tripping realhard I'm trying to remember
which specific new year's you'retalking about.
Jacki (10:50):
What did we do that?
Day where were we?
Jon (10:53):
did we go to a show?
Jacki (10:55):
I remember, I think, our first new year's.
No, I think we were at ourfriend's house.
I've already seen right yeah,we didn't go to a show that
night no, but everybody wasthere.
Oh, you know what?
Now it's coming back, so whathappened?
So, uh, yeah, we were at ourfriend's apartment in chicago on
racine.
(11:15):
I don't remember like the wholeday, but I remember at night
because we did like such minimalthings, but we never slept.
The night was, it was all night.
Jon (11:26):
You know, we never fucking slept like you know, if we sat
on the couch, an hour had goneby before we had moved and it
was crazy because there's almostlike uh, now that I'm like
thinking back to it, there wasuh, like I'm I'd call it a micro
environment, so the room waslike broken up into little
pieces of like people doingcertain things.
(11:48):
Oh, yeah.
Like some people over heregiving light shows.
Jacki (11:52):
Some people are in like room like private light shows.
Jon (11:54):
Some people are looking at like lights on the ceiling.
Some people are given like aback massage.
Jacki (12:01):
Other people are just given a hug.
Yeah, some are on like thebalcony smoking, yeah right.
Other people are just giving ahug yeah, some are on like the
balcony smoking, yeah right.
Jon (12:06):
Other people are like rolling the next blunt, like it
was crazy, you'd have like 10 or12 people in there.
Jacki (12:11):
And he would like just keep flowing and transferring.
You know, I might spend like wemight spend like an hour on the
couch together and then, likeonce one of us finally gets up,
you're going to go.
Whatever it is that you, thenext room you find yourself in,
you're gonna be in there forlike an hour with somebody else,
right?
Jon (12:25):
right and you just like kind of change around and stuff
yeah, damn, that was fuckingdope and we all worked really
mundane, low-paying jobs, andthen we stay up all night and we
do it again the next day.
So after like the end of 2012,the start of 2013, that's when
(12:46):
things were getting a littleshaky for me in terms of, like,
my psychosis.
And then I had also starteddating my first real girlfriend
at the time, and that was alsowhen I had failed out of Grand
Valley and I was going toAlexian Brothers, which is like
a rehab facility, and that'skind of when I came up with the
(13:07):
whole evil persona.
Jacki (13:09):
Was all those times in Michigan before then.
Jon (13:12):
No, that's after that's after oh yeah, Really.
Yeah, that's way after.
Yeah, Keep going.
Yeah that's way after oh really, yeah, it was way after.
Jacki (13:21):
Just making sure we didn't skip anything.
Jon (13:23):
No, that's 2014.
Wow, okay, yeah 2014, because Iremember coming home for in
March of 2013.
I had to do medical leavebecause I had failed my classes.
My parents put me in AlexianBrothers, which is funny.
My dad started out the episodehe goes.
(13:44):
He was like super emotional.
I know you haven't likelistened to it yet.
He's super emotional.
He's choked up at the start ofthe episode he goes.
Just yesterday I was droppingyou off at Rosecrans and you
said you're going to breathefire down my throat.
Yeah, that happens, but yeah,that's when I came up with the
whole evil persona.
(14:04):
March of 2023.
No-transcript.
After moving to Michigan afterthe summer had happened 2023.
Sorry, 2013.
Jacki (14:16):
I was going to say what Then?
Jon (14:19):
2014 was the times you guys .
2014 and 15 was when youvisited me in Michigan.
Okay, 2013 mostly happened here, so I came up with this persona
.
It's funny, too, because youdidn't grow up religious.
Jacki (14:36):
Nope, nope.
Jon (14:37):
Not at all Actually.
Jacki (14:39):
Like completely, like didn't even like bother to know
much about it.
Well, you didn't know.
Yeah, you didn't know anythingabout it.
I was not affected by it, right?
Jon (14:47):
You weren't brought up in it, you weren't taught it Like
it.
It almost, it almost wasnon-existent.
Yeah, Chris had to tell you itand you're like I had no idea
about this stuff.
Jacki (14:57):
Yeah, my parents were just all about being a good
person and the commandments ofjust being a human being.
Jon (15:03):
Right.
Jacki (15:07):
Which was nothing religious, but that's it.
I saw what religion did toeveryone else and I just kind of
Just did your own thing.
Jon (15:12):
I enjoyed my bubble Right right.
Jacki (15:15):
But yes, why then you guys opened me up for sure.
Jon (15:17):
I thought it was interesting, though, because, as
I like took on this persona oflike evil, I was like whacked
out right, and I'm literallytelling people that I'm like god
and the devil at the same time,you know.
And then everybody else waslike kind of like what is this
guy talking about?
And you're almost like lookingat it like it's theatrical.
So you and you enjoyed that,didn't you?
Jacki (15:39):
well, it's not that I enjoyed it like, oh my god,
you're going through somethingand I'm just entertained by it.
Jon (15:44):
Well, no, when I mean that I'm like, was it like I was
obviously like there were badparts about it well, right, I
mean what was interesting to youthough here.
Jacki (15:55):
Here's the thing.
Okay, for ever since I've knownyou, you have a pure heart,
like the purest of hearts.
Jon (16:02):
Appreciate that.
Jacki (16:03):
Yeah, and even in the darkest of times, like when you
were calling yourself evil, itwas love backwards.
Like, even in your darkest oftimes, you still cared about
being better and like love andyou were just like trying to
like find a part of you and sosure, like to be honest, like
maybe you showed it, but I feltjust as freaking crazy.
(16:25):
You know what I'm saying.
I think we all were like youknow, and I think the biggest
thing with me is like you wereunapologetically you Like it,
just like you are who you are.
There was nothing hiding and itdidn't matter how dark it got,
you were still reaching forsomething more.
So I'm not gonna lie, some ofthe stuff you did was funny.
You know I'm, I, I'm one ofyour best friends.
(16:48):
I have to laugh at you, um, butI saw where you were trying to
go, so I knew the darkness wasjust something that you had to
go through it was a phase.
Yeah, it was yeah that you weregonna find the other end,
because that's all.
That's all you ever thoughtabout.
You were way too hard onyourself.
(17:09):
That was always my biggestthing.
Jon (17:11):
Like you are way too hard on yourself I know you like were
so mad at yourself I know, andit beat me down for years,
though too, and even at thestart of my recovery and even
before, like even aftereverything that happened in
those years in 2013, when I hadcompletely lost my marbles I was
extremely hard on myself thewhole time.
(17:34):
I really appreciate you sayingthat, because I think the whole
time when I had like thatfalling out, that Chicago, john
and evil phase, I had fallenaway from the faith or how my
parents had brought me up andthe government and a whole bunch
of like institutions, I hadcompletely shed it and got rid
of it and I was just trying tofigure out what true love was
(17:59):
Not even like love for like yourpartner.
I was literally trying tounderstand why the world doesn't
love itself, why don't we loveourselves.
But I did it in a very angryway.
Jacki (18:17):
Well, it's not that you did it in an angry way.
We had a lot of anger in usbecause of things that we were
trying to escape from.
So that's the whole reason whywe were trying to find that love
, because we didn't want to beangry anymore, but unfortunately
, I was definitely part of it.
Jon (18:32):
Right, right.
It was the only way we knew howto express it.
Fortunately, I was definitelypart of it.
Right right, it was the onlyway we knew how to express it,
Because we were like these timesthat we were sharing doing
drugs, and in the apartmentswe're all just sitting kumbaya
circle.
It was because the world aroundus was filled with so much evil
and hate that we were justtrying to love, you know, and
we're trying to like separateourselves from that, you know.
(18:54):
Right, or just like find anytype of moment that we could
escape it, you know, and seewhat life's really about.
Right.
Jacki (19:02):
And not hold on to those things.
Jon (19:03):
Right, and the whole evil persona was me trying to figure
out a way that I didn'tunderstand, like why certain
religions didn't love everybody.
I didn't understand why certainpolitical parties hated the
opposition and people go oh it'snot hate, it's, it is hate.
You know, I was just trying tofigure out why all these lines
(19:25):
were drawn in the sand.
You know, like I wanted to.
The whole like thing was like Iwas.
I was coming up with all thesecrazy, weird formulas and shit
and chris was talking.
Chris always talks about likethe fucking triangles and the
shit like, and my other buddywho I'm gonna have on, uh, the
podcast.
Like my room at grand valleywas like covered in pieces of
(19:46):
paper and like you know, it'salways sunny in philadelphia,
right, you know the scene wherecharlie's at the post office
with the cigarette and he's likepointing and shit.
That was literally me at GrandValley trying to just figure out
a way to tell everybody that wecan love each other.
Jacki (20:05):
Life could be more.
Jon (20:06):
Life could be more, and I didn't start fully realizing
that until I had to learn tolove myself.
Jacki (20:13):
Oh, for sure.
Jon (20:15):
I mean, I know your perspective on it's different
and everybody like I'm in aposition now where I'm never
going to use again, just becauseof course I've.
I've lived that path, I've gonedown it, I've done what I've
done, you know, and I feel likeI've learned how to love my life
without all that shit, you know.
(20:36):
so this is why the chicago johnuh, volume one is happening
exactly this episode so I can,we can talk about this and
hopefully people can understandit too, that you gotta go
through some fucking shit ifyou're gonna learn how to love
yourself.
Jacki (20:51):
Yeah, you know well, you gotta figure out why you don't
first.
You know gotta figure out whyyou don't that and then start
reaching you know, trying tofigure out how you can how you
can.
Jon (21:02):
First you gotta realize why you don't I like that.
So there was this evil persona.
It came about and I had to goto um, I had to go to alexian
brothers and the chic ChicagoJohn kind of phased out and it
was just evil then, like to thepoint where I didn't want people
calling me John.
Jacki (21:22):
Yeah, it definitely took a turn.
Jon (21:25):
Yeah, it got weird.
Jacki (21:29):
Well, again, I never saw it as weird.
I mean, like you know, I knewwho you were before we got so
deep into drugs that I knew itwasn't like you had just lost
your mind.
I mean, well, you know, youweren't like a weird guy you're
right yeah again likeeverybody's weird when they're
all fucked up but, either way.
(21:51):
Um yeah, no, I didn't think youwere weird.
I just thought that you weredefinitely trying to investigate
an area you had to see through.
Jon (22:02):
I don't like the way you worded that, like you were
looking for something.
Yeah, that was the whole point.
Jacki (22:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Jon (22:09):
And.
Jacki (22:10):
There was no stopping you , we just had to be patient.
Jon (22:15):
Just had to let it run its course, really.
Jacki (22:16):
Yeah, exactly.
Jon (22:19):
The rehab facility definitely didn't help me out
with that, though I don't thinkso either.
Jacki (22:25):
I don't doubt that.
No, no, no.
Jon (22:30):
But that was still dating my first girlfriend at the time
and then, after I'd failed outof Grand Valley, we had moved
back here for a little bit andwe spent the summer or up until
like June.
We spent it here and we weregoing to different raves and
stuff like that, and I wassupposed to be getting sober.
(22:52):
But it wasn't genuine.
And this is the moment where Istarted being really hard on
myself, because I genuinelywanted to be sober.
I actually wanted to be soberwhen I started freshman year of
college, when I started doingdrugs.
I remember that year and I haddone like things like a few days
(23:13):
in a row and I'm like, allright, well, we got to like cut
this out.
And there was like a monologuein my head too, and it's crazy
because even at 18, I was likewe're not going to like achieve
our dreams unless we get sober,and I remember hearing that when
I was 18.
But it just took eight yearsfor that to actualize, you know.
Jacki (23:36):
Well, I mean, like you, it was something you definitely
always said and knew.
Jon (23:38):
It was just something you weren't ready for right, yeah,
so during that summer of 2013,like I wasn't genuine about
wanting to quit, I didn't seethe point in it.
I was having fun and there wereyeah, I was kind of forced on
you right too Right yeah.
Jacki (23:53):
It's not like you saw yourself having a problem.
It was obviously parents andwanting to you know us to be
better.
Jon (24:01):
Right?
Well, in all honesty, I lost alot of weight too, though.
Jacki (24:06):
Oh well, for sure yeah.
Jon (24:07):
Yeah, it was like 50 pounds gone.
Jacki (24:11):
Wow.
Jon (24:11):
Yeah, I went into Grand Valley 180.
Wow, and I went into grandvalley 180, wow, and I went into
alexian brothers 130 see, whenI met you, you were I was that
john, yeah, you were skinnyright, yeah, yeah I mean, but I
wasn't like I wasn't big when Iwent to gb, I was just kind of
like a bigger, built like jockokay, you know, but yeah, you
were in all the sports andeverything yeah, and then and
(24:32):
then, when I like had gotadmitted, it was, you know, like
I was sticks and bones at thatpoint that summer.
You know, it was veryinteresting because I was.
I was convinced I was going tobe a famous rapper.
I was convinced, famous I wasgoing to rap with the gloves on
my hands.
Jacki (24:50):
Well, see again, that's something that I don't think is
that crazy People are famousrappers.
You were definitely convinced,though, that you were God and
the devil at the same time, andthat was where.
I was like.
That's not true, john.
But I see why parts of you, youprobably had that devil and God
on your shoulders.
I was like that's not true,John, but I see why parts of you
, you probably had that deviland God on your shoulders.
(25:12):
You know what I'm saying Forsure.
And so sure I saw where you weregoing with that and I just saw
how literal you were taking it.
Jon (25:21):
This is going too deep now.
Jacki (25:23):
Normally in sitcoms you see the little devil and the
angel on the shoulders, and thenthere'd be the laugh track at
the dark part there was no laughtrack.
Jon (25:32):
no, no, no, no, but that, uh, I think I had that fall too.
So I had worked here for thesummer, uh, my girlfriend and I,
and then we had moved back.
Um, when I got fired from thefamily business which was
hilarious and I had moved backup to Michigan, my mom and my
(25:55):
aunts like drove up every fewweeks to like buy groceries for
me and stuff.
Still like super grateful forthat too Got a lot of love and
support.
Had a lot of love and support.
I didn't.
I didn't see that at the time,but I've definitely.
I think I've said thank you toeveryone who was there through
that shit.
Um, still never gave up thewhole being an entertainer dream
(26:19):
, although like doing thepodcast and the book is.
Jacki (26:21):
I'm saying that that's a part of you that's who you are.
That wasn't like drugs.
That just made you I I thinkthe drugs made you actually like
realize that you can be like.
You can dream things and bethem.
You know what I mean.
It just like made you want todream Like it made me want to
dream.
Yeah, I don't think youthinking you were going to be a
professional rapper was crazy,because it's in you for sure.
(26:43):
Like every, like I said, allthis entertaining things are in
you.
Jon (26:47):
Right, it's not the drugs that did it.
Yeah, but I let society tell methat those dreams were bad,
mostly because, like as you know, I come from like a pretty I'd
say generic family in terms oflike aunts and uncles, cousins,
and stuff.
It's like oh, go to school, toschool, get a job start a family
(27:08):
traditional orthodox stuff,right.
When you say anything that's outof line with that, like the
eyes get really big.
You know, if you're like, oh, Iwant to be an artist or a
rapper, you know people startlooking at you like, well,
you're gonna make enough moneydoing that and it's like I
didn't want life to be all aboutmaking money exactly you know
so the drugs did help me realizethat I can dream big, you know.
Jacki (27:34):
Yeah, you start exploring , like all these talents.
Anything you wanted to do, youtried, you know.
Jon (27:40):
Right, I don't look back on regretting any of that.
Fuck, you shouldn't.
No, fuck no.
I wouldn't be writing raps anddancing with gloves on.
I wouldn't be doing any of thatshit.
Yeah, you know, it doesn't meanthat all these pieces are still
here.
Jacki (27:53):
You just don't have the drugs anymore.
Jon (27:55):
Exactly, you don't need them right, you know, and it's
crazy because I I I find that alot like mental health.
This is was a mental healthpodcast for a little bit.
We've talked, talked about theimportance of habits and hobbies
too, and sometimes when I heara lot about the mental health
problems with like people ourage or maybe a little older or
(28:15):
something like you, ask peoplelike, well, what are your
hobbies?
And people are like, oh, youknow, watch TV, go on my phone
and Lisa gives me shit because Ihave too many hobbies.
It's almost like a revolver orlike you know, the wheel that
you spin.
It's like which one am I goingto do now?
I get overwhelmed by how manyhobbies I can do, you know.
(28:37):
So now, like, looking back atthat, it's like something
definitely to be grateful.
Jacki (28:41):
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, I think you have to havethose hobbies.
I mean, what did everybody dowith all these screens and
everything you know?
Jon (28:49):
we just can't have to yeah it's.
Jacki (28:51):
It's you have to like explore these pieces of you.
How else are you gonna know whoyou are if you're not willing
to like put yourself out thereand try new things?
right it's not even saying youhave to do drugs, but just like
you know, you, you do, you doguitar and you've tried rap.
I mean you try rapping.
I mean you practice rapping andyou've written a book.
And just like you never toldyourself no, you never set any
(29:14):
limits, and it's, quite honestly, always been inspirational for
me because it just made me belike, oh fuck, yeah, let's do
that.
Jon (29:23):
You're like.
This man literally doesn't sayno to anything.
Jacki (29:26):
I want to do that too.
Jon (29:29):
It's it's.
It's exhausting sometimes, butfor sure.
Jacki (29:33):
I love it though because, again, you're too hard on
yourself, because you're like oh, I love all these hobbies, but
I haven't done this one in solong and I got to do that.
I got to do that.
You also need to chill.
Jon (29:44):
You know I'm bad at that, bad at relaxing, yeah, but
having the ability to not say no, no limits, like you just said.
You're not telling people to goand do drugs.
I'm not telling people to goand do drugs.
If there's anything I couldtell people out of everything I
went through, it's that youshouldn't limit yourself.
You should literally just tryactivities, things dreams,
(30:06):
absolutely Like fuck it all.
Shouldn't limit yourself.
You should literally just tryactivities, things dreams,
absolutely fuck it all.
Just go and do it likeotherwise, like one of the
biggest regrets.
If you ask people who are dyingor older and they always regret
like not like when they toldthemselves no right, they wish
they did more, or they wish theywent yourself out there.
Jacki (30:26):
I should have done this and said this Right.
Jon (30:29):
So why not fucking do it then?
You know, I just had to, youknow, figure out that there's a
healthy way to do it.
So right now, with my healthnearing like the pinnacle that
it is, I'm able to enjoy thesehobbies wellness, positivity and
stuff.
But I do have to thank ChicagoJohn for bringing me Chicago.
Jacki (30:46):
John was a shit ton of fun.
Jon (30:50):
I actually had somebody last year who wasn't around for
the Chicago John phase.
He was on the podcast and hegoes.
Man, I wish I was like therewhen you were doing that because
I bet you were a lot of fun andI'm like I you know.
I was oh yeah I think I was, atleast when I did come home that
fall of 2013 after you know, uh,my girlfriend and I broke up
(31:14):
and I had moved back here.
The chicago john persona endedthere because my tenor in
michigan had kind of ended therein 2013, um, and I had gotten
through the evil phase too.
So I was like, okay, it'sprobably just John now you know
yeah it balanced out.
Jacki (31:33):
I did, However the devil and got on your shoulders again.
Jon (31:36):
Yeah, and I'm like all right, they're there, but I'm
John you know, and.
I in the fall.
I remember it Cause I do stillkeep a lot of my writings from
10 years ago, and I had writtendown like that's gold.
I have kept everything.
That's gold.
There was something I hadwritten before I had moved and
(31:56):
left the place with my ex and Ihad kind of compiled like all of
my poetry at the time into likea 60-page book.
I was going to get published orsomething.
But, I never got around to it.
It was like called the Risegoing to get published or
something, but I never gotaround to it.
It was like called the rise andfall of evil or something, and
at the end of it I had writtensomething that had said like,
like evil and John Cerrone havebeen battling it out and now
(32:20):
only John Cerrone is left.
Jacki (32:22):
I think I actually have one of your evil poems.
I don't know if it's that exactone or not, but I have
something.
Jon (32:28):
Really.
Jacki (32:28):
Oh, I have something from that.
Jon (32:29):
I kind of want to see it.
Can you find it?
It's in my email.
Jacki (32:32):
yeah, it's in your email Because I was going through all
my starred emails.
I'm crazy, okay.
And.
I was deleting really oldthings and going through like
what do I still need?
Because I've had this emailsince I was a child and, yeah, I
saw I have like three poems inhere.
(32:53):
No, shit three writings orsomething.
I don't know how long it'sgonna.
I mean, we can keep talking.
I can try and look if you want,or save it, I don't know.
Would you want me to look?
Jon (33:02):
how long you think I'm.
Yeah, I mean you look, fuck it,find it shit keep talking um
you know what.
Maybe I can actually do a searchyeah, but I had come home that
fall and, uh, kind of gotten ridof those partying personas, but
you know, the the drug doingdancing gloving rapper still
lived on even when I moved backhere.
(33:23):
Um, and then we had the timesthat you would come and visit uh
me when I was in Michigan in2014 and 2015.
Well, there was one other thingthat you had mentioned, and it
was a.
It was a talent show, right,yeah, so I had got readmitted
back into Grand Valley.
After getting sober for thefirst time, I got my grades up,
(33:44):
got readmitted, went back to GVthat year in 2015.
2016 was the talent show,though, and it was in the fall,
and I had choreographed a dancewith my gloves and my shoes, and
I did it to the Odessa song.
Say my Name.
Jacki (34:01):
At school.
Jon (34:02):
At school.
Jacki (34:03):
In front of everyone Sober, sober, yeah At school.
In front of everyone Sober,sober.
Jon (34:05):
Yeah, sober in front of like that the auditorium was
packed.
It was like two or three hundredpeople.
It was crazy and they turnedthe lights off.
They turned the lights off forme and I was so happy because I
was like worried.
I'm like I had asked him toturn the lights off.
I didn't know Like thisanything for three whole days
(34:26):
leading up to it, because I wasall worried.
I'm like, oh what if they onlyturn off some of the lights?
You know that my lights aren'tgoing to be bright.
I can't smoke right now.
I got to practice the dancelike I was freaking out and shit
.
It was weird because I like waswalking through the common area
, like on my way from a class orsomething, and this is what you
said, probably like a half hourago.
You're like you always had yourgloves on you and even when I
(34:55):
wasn't like chicago, john, youknow, but he'll, he'll never die
.
Jacki (34:56):
He's still inside me and I always had my gloves on me.
Jon (34:57):
Oh yeah, long after you're sober, you still had your gloves
on you and there was a sign asI'm walking through the common
area and it's like talent showauditions.
I'm like what the fuck is thisall about, you know?
And I had my gloves on me and Ilike walked in and I'm like you
guys still doing like auditions?
And they're like, oh, we'reabout to close up.
I'm like all right, sick.
Can I like dance?
Like yeah, sure, and I liketurn the lights off and dance to
(35:19):
um a song it was a chrisleyremix or something and they're
like, yeah, you're in.
Totally, that was dope, allright, because it was kids on
the panel too and I was allexcited.
They're like, yeah, talentshows in like three weeks or
something.
I'm like, all right, cool.
This is the first time I hadlike performed in front of
people, like all the other timespreviously I had like performed
(35:42):
like in a room full of, likeyou know, hippies and stoners
and shit, which is fine.
You know, performing in front ofanybody is tough because you're
expressing yourself and you'revulnerable.
This was like.
This was big, you know, and Ifucking killed it.
I think I did.
Jacki (35:59):
Oh yeah.
Jon (35:59):
Yeah, I didn't win, though, because there was some girl
there who could sing like anabsolute angel.
She fucking won.
Yeah, I was standing there.
Jacki (36:07):
Everyone went there with talents, everyone, yeah, no for
sure, everyone there wasextremely talented.
Jon (36:12):
It was great, but I think everyone was also there not even
for the actual competition.
Everyone was there just toperform because they wanted to.
Jacki (36:20):
Yeah, just have some fun, yeah.
Jon (36:22):
And yeah, as I fucking-.
Jacki (36:24):
It's not like you won anything, right I?
Jon (36:26):
won something internally.
Jacki (36:28):
Yeah, but like that's what I mean.
It's not like there's like thisbig prize.
Everyone went because they justwanted to like do something
they loved, yeah.
That they were good at.
Jon (36:37):
The competition was with myself.
I'm like I want to bevictorious over my own.
How do I say it?
Embarrassment, you know.
Uh, embarrassment, you know.
Jacki (36:51):
I want to win this instance of me not being okay in
front of a bunch of people.
I well then, like we were likedetermined to show the world
that, like you know, thesethings would be really cool yeah
right.
Jon (37:00):
Well, like, because people like looked at the, the gloves
and the lights rolled their eyesright, right, yeah.
I didn't even think about thattoo, because, like when I went
up there and the lights went offand like I think people in the
auditorium were like what thefuck's going on?
You know because no one likesees, shit like that.
People were cheering the wholetime, though, too, which was
pretty neat, you know.
(37:20):
I think my cousin's wife said Ishould like put something
together for America's GotTalent, and I was like it's a
lot of work, you know, but Ithink I'm just going to like try
and pick it up as a hobby again, you know.
Jacki (37:33):
Yeah, why not?
Jon (37:35):
It's just finding the time as we get older.
You know, that's the big thing.
Jacki (37:39):
You'll make time for the things you want to, though.
Jon (37:42):
Yeah, you're goddamn right For sure.
So what else do we got?
You know, we've talked a lotabout that era actually in a
good way, a bad way, a very wiseway.
Fuck.
You think we got anything else.
Jacki (38:03):
I mean, I don't know, it's really just up to me.
Do feel, yeah, do you feel likewe've covered chicago, john,
enough, uh, for we've saidenough stories or perspectives.
Jon (38:17):
Yeah, I think I think we've done really good for the first
volume yep yeah I reallyappreciate you being the first
person to help me through this.
Jacki (38:25):
Thank you.
I appreciate you having me bethe first person here.
Jon (38:29):
Honestly, like I was wondering who was going to be
the first and I asked you.
Jacki (38:34):
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Jon (38:35):
Well, you were there for it .
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Jacki (38:39):
I'm always your biggest fan.
Well, I'm your second biggestfan, lisa's your biggest fan.
Yeah, that is biggest fan.
I was your biggest fan, right,right right, lisa came in though
yeah yeah, um, yeah.
Jon (38:51):
I really appreciate you helping me through this um and
being my friend through all ofit.
Yeah always yeah, I reallyappreciate it.
Um, I think we're gonna endhere, though, so I hope
everybody has enjoyed theepisode.
Uh, like follow and all thatgood stuff for more Chicago,
john and feel free.
Goodness, we'll be back in afew weeks, but you all know the
(39:15):
drill Stay up and feel free.
Yo, yo, what's up.
Welcome to Feel Free, the onlypodcast that'll tell you to
chase your dreams and call youout on all your bullshit.
I'm Jon Cerrone.
I just wanted to give a littledisclaimer at the start of this
episode.
It is different from a lot ofthe episodes that we have done
previously.
This is the first episode for alittle series called Chicago Jon
(00:22):
, which does talk about my pastand my using days.
I will be bringing friends onin order to talk about the
things I had gone through.
There will be the good and thebad side.
I just wanted to leave thisdisclaimer at the start of the
episode to let everybody knowthat in no way, shape or form
are we telling people to go outand use drugs or alcohol.
(00:43):
If you have a problem, pleaseseek the professional help out,
like I did in order to get sober.
With that being said, ifanything is triggering to you in
recovery or addiction or mentalhealth in general, you don't
have to listen to this episode.
Wanted to throw that out therefor anybody who might be
struggling with that.
You still want to listen to theepisode.
It is a good one.
Really enjoyed recording thisepisode actually.
(01:04):
So without further ado, let'sget into the episode.
So I brought you on herebecause you were there for a lot
of the partying that I wasdoing during the time where I
was using.
I had an alternate persona,nickname that was given to me at
college called Chicago John,and because there were two,
(01:29):
there were two Johns in ourgroup at the time and people
wanted to call us differentthings.
That didn't mix us up, so myone friend was Papa John and
then I am Chicago John, chicagoJohn.
So then there was also anotherpersona that I had come up with
(01:50):
too during my psychosis.
That was called Evil, but we'llprobably get into that a little
bit later.
Evil, evil, e-v-o-l.
Love spelled backwards.
How you doing so?
When did we meet Jackie?
Jacki (02:04):
2012.
We were trying to figure outexactly what month yeah, we were
, but it was definitely 2012,very early into my husband and I
starting to date Because youwere obviously one of his best
friends.
Right and I was going to schoolat UIC.
Right With also another one ofyour best friends, exactly.
Jon (02:29):
So the whole squad was actually at UIC in.
Jacki (02:31):
Chicago and I was actually in Michigan.
Jon (02:32):
I was yeah, I was in Michigan for a while, so the
first half of my freshman yearat Grand Valley I wasn't doing
like any drugs, I didn't evensmoke weed.
I was still like a jockfreshman year of college.
Jacki (02:43):
No, you're right, it actually was my junior year.
Jon (02:45):
Yeah, I'm remembering it now.
Yeah, but then after the summerof 2012, which, like you know,
our friends talk about, you know, the summer of 2012,.
Which was ridiculous.
2012 was the year 2012 was theyear I was sober for one day in
the summer of 2012.
I remember it too.
Everybody of 2012.
I remember it too.
Everybody had weird things togo do, like family events and
stuff.
I couldn't hang out with any ofour friends and everyone was
(03:09):
gone.
And I'm just sitting at myparents' house and I'm like I
don't have any weed or nothing.
I'm like I guess I'm watchingTV today.
That's what I did.
Every other day was filled withsomething, though.
Jacki (03:19):
You know we're not going to get through this either
without talking about how greatyou were becoming at like
gloving and like all the lightsthat everyone was throwing.
Jon (03:28):
I didn't even think about that too.
You got to talk about thelights, right, the lights are so
important that is actually partof the persona yeah so when, uh
, people gave me the personachicago john or the nickname
chicago john, and it was atgrand valley, it was the kid
with the drugs and the kid withthe gloves, you know because
your talent show.
Jacki (03:49):
I'm sorry, I'm just jumping around.
The talent show was a few yearslater yeah right, uh keep going
.
Jon (03:56):
Uh, I still wish, like I was like gloving or spinning poi
more.
But you know that's whathappens with hobbies that you
let go of, but uh, muscle memoryyou just gotta pick it up again
.
Yeah, it was.
I remember coming home freshmanyear of college and because
grand grand valley ended wayearlier than everyone else, we
(04:17):
ended like almost a month beforeother colleges.
It was crazy because we startedearly and we had less days off.
So so like at the end of AprilI come home and the fuck are
those fucking gloves?
Man.
Holy shit.
I'm like can I try them?
And that that sent me off.
I was like this is probably themost exciting thing I've ever
(04:39):
been.
A part of, yeah, putting thegloves on for sure.
A part of, yeah, putting thegloves on for sure.
Jacki (04:47):
and then everybody got into spinning poi and gloving
and all these other forms of uh,we call it light art or flow
art.
Oh, yeah, yeah, some staff,some hoops, all kinds of whips
and shit.
Jon (04:55):
It was nuts, yeah, um everyone loved the lights love
the fucking lights and thatbecame a huge part of my persona
too, I believe in the summer of2013,.
Like I would just walk aroundwith gloves on.
Jacki (05:10):
They were on.
Even if you weren't wearingthem, they were still on you at
all times.
Jon (05:14):
Yeah, for sure.
Jacki (05:15):
Your pocket, your backpack, your car.
Jon (05:16):
Always had them Didn't matter.
Yeah, they were somewhere, justin case you had to throw a
light, show, you know, and to behonest, we would go to shows
sometimes where they wouldn'teven you know.
Jacki (05:23):
They're trying to like not promote drugs, so they don't
want anyone bringing gloves,and you'd still find a way to
get them in.
Jon (05:28):
I'm bringing those motherfuckers in.
Jacki (05:30):
What the hell everyone still had their lights, hell
yeah they.
Jon (05:35):
They definitely started cracking down more in the later
years, though oh yeah that'sactually why you amazing lights
went under yeah, things started,yeah, getting uh crazy.
Jacki (05:44):
They stopped letting you buy those drug test kits at
places and they started makingout all the see-through
backpacks and stuff I mean, Iget it, but at the same time,
like they made the thing isthey're gonna do drugs anyways,
so they just made you not beresponsible anymore, but that
anyways.
That's not what we're talkingabout right.
Jon (06:01):
Um, yeah, I, I was doing the gloves.
I had this like Chicago Johnpersona where I was like I want
to be a rapper and I'm going tobe a dancer and an entertainer
and I'm going to be famous andstuff like that.
Jacki (06:14):
You still kind of have those things in you.
That wasn't just like a drugthing.
You're right, like you actuallyare very good at rapping.
Jon (06:21):
I appreciate that.
I think you mentioned on anepisode.
You're like you gotta rap on anepisode.
Jacki (06:27):
Yeah, this is not a John podcast until there's a rapping
episode.
Jon (06:31):
I told you I rapped on somebody's podcast, though.
Jacki (06:34):
Yeah, but.
Jon (06:35):
You gotta do it on mine, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I'll come up with a wayto play a beat through here and
I'll rap for people.
I'm going to come up withsomething, though.
I will do it.
I haven't lost those things,though the persona might have
changed to Jon Serone, but itstarted with Chicago, jon.
Jacki (06:51):
There's each pieces of you, you know.
Jon (06:53):
For sure you know I would never.
Once I got sober too, I almostfelt like at the start of your
recovery you almost feel ashamedof the things you've done, of
course you know, and you kind oftry and bury them, which is why
I stopped gloving or like I'vefallen away from EDM music.
But, like later into myrecovery, where I'm at now, it's
(07:15):
like these are things to likebe embraced, you know,
especially, like you know,chicago, john.
Of course my parents have likesomething to say about.
Oh, I'm sure, yeah, you knowthat that side.
But we're here to talk mostlyabout the good times, though,
because I don't want to like,like I said on the episode with
(07:36):
Edgar, like I don't talk shitabout drugs or doing them on the
podcast because I wouldn't bewho I am without them.
Did they cause a lot of painand negative consequences?
For sure, but if I'm going tohold regret over my actions and
stuff, then I'm going to hold onto that pain and completely
(08:00):
sidetracked from the episode.
But I am trying to write a bookon like forgiveness and stuff
so that'sawesome in in order to like not
resent yourself and forgiveyourself for those actions.
You probably shouldn't regretthem, right?
So?
Which is why I'm okay doingthese chicago john episodes now,
you know, because I still loveto rap, still to dance, still
(08:23):
love being a goof.
You know, I had to let go ofthose things at the start of my
recovery because they held notonly the good memories but the
bad ones as well.
But now I'm able to embrace allthe memories.
I'll be on stage with my glovesone day.
I know that for a fact.
Jacki (08:42):
I expect nothing less.
For sure you always had the afact.
Jon (08:45):
I expect nothing less For sure.
Jacki (08:47):
You always had the lights even after you've been sober.
Jon (08:50):
I know, yeah, there's just a time where, like the Chicago
John phase, like I was glovingrelentlessly.
Jacki (08:56):
Oh yeah, Obviously, it's like a big difference.
Oh yeah, but I just thinklights are always like a part of
you.
Jon (09:02):
Right, I mean I got the light up sign.
Jacki (09:03):
That's what I'm saying.
Jon (09:04):
I'm pretty sure that's why they got me that too.
Jacki (09:07):
Of course, sober or not, lights are the best Lights are
tight.
Hell yeah.
Jon (09:16):
So I guess, where should we start with more concrete
memories, because we were tryingto jog each other's memories.
Before there were a fewapartments we would spend time
at, you know, with a lot of ourfriends having really good times
, what.
I guess, where should we gowith this?
What do you think?
Whatever you want?
So because Electric Forest was2014.
Jacki (09:36):
That was a big one.
Oh yeah, there's for sure, butthere's, I mean, are you trying
to go in timeline?
I mean, I guess it doesn'treally matter, but well, we met
in the fall of 2012.
Jon (09:46):
Yeah, right.
Jacki (09:47):
All of our Michigan memories are before Electric
Forest.
They are.
Jon (09:51):
Yeah, I still remember New Year's being really crazy
because I'm going to be honest,like I came home for that winter
break and I was tripping a lotthat year.
And I was tripping a lot thatyear and that was when I first
put the gloves on, when I was atmy parents' house and I like
started like dancing and rappingto like a song and I was just
(10:13):
like and I could see myreflection in the TV and I'm
like I could totally fucking dothis.
And then for New Year's we weretripping real fucking hard and
that's when I like I was likereally getting into the whole
standing up and gloving.
That's when I like I was likereally getting into the whole
standing up and gloving because,like most people who give light
shows will be like kneeling orlike in your face and stuff, but
I liked standing in front ofeverybody, like performing oh
(10:36):
yeah, like in front of a room,yeah exactly, and I remember
that new year's was when I I hadfirst started doing that
tripping the buns, tripping realhard I'm trying to remember
which specific new year's you'retalking about.
Jacki (10:50):
What did we do that?
Day where were we?
Jon (10:53):
did we go to a show?
Jacki (10:55):
I remember, I think, our first new year's.
No, I think we were at ourfriend's house.
I've already seen right yeah,we didn't go to a show that
night no, but everybody wasthere.
Oh, you know what?
Now it's coming back, so whathappened?
So, uh, yeah, we were at ourfriend's apartment in chicago on
racine.
(11:15):
I don't remember like the wholeday, but I remember at night
because we did like such minimalthings, but we never slept.
The night was, it was all night.
Jon (11:26):
You know, we never fucking slept like you know, if we sat
on the couch, an hour had goneby before we had moved and it
was crazy because there's almostlike uh, now that I'm like
thinking back to it, there wasuh, like I'm I'd call it a micro
environment, so the room waslike broken up into little
pieces of like people doingcertain things.
(11:48):
Oh, yeah.
Like some people over heregiving light shows.
Jacki (11:52):
Some people are in like room like private light shows.
Jon (11:54):
Some people are looking at like lights on the ceiling.
Some people are given like aback massage.
Jacki (12:01):
Other people are just given a hug.
Yeah, some are on like thebalcony smoking, yeah right.
Other people are just giving ahug yeah, some are on like the
balcony smoking, yeah right.
Jon (12:06):
Other people are like rolling the next blunt, like it
was crazy, you'd have like 10 or12 people in there.
Jacki (12:11):
And he would like just keep flowing and transferring.
You know, I might spend like wemight spend like an hour on the
couch together and then, likeonce one of us finally gets up,
you're going to go.
Whatever it is that you, thenext room you find yourself in,
you're gonna be in there forlike an hour with somebody else,
right?
Jon (12:25):
right and you just like kind of change around and stuff
yeah, damn, that was fuckingdope and we all worked really
mundane, low-paying jobs, andthen we stay up all night and we
do it again the next day.
So after like the end of 2012,the start of 2013, that's when
(12:46):
things were getting a littleshaky for me in terms of, like,
my psychosis.
And then I had also starteddating my first real girlfriend
at the time, and that was alsowhen I had failed out of Grand
Valley and I was going toAlexian Brothers, which is like
a rehab facility, and that'skind of when I came up with the
(13:07):
whole evil persona.
Jacki (13:09):
Was all those times in Michigan before then.
Jon (13:12):
No, that's after that's after oh yeah, Really.
Yeah, that's way after.
Yeah, Keep going.
Yeah that's way after oh really, yeah, it was way after.
Jacki (13:21):
Just making sure we didn't skip anything.
Jon (13:23):
No, that's 2014.
Wow, okay, yeah 2014, because Iremember coming home for in
March of 2013.
I had to do medical leavebecause I had failed my classes.
My parents put me in AlexianBrothers, which is funny.
My dad started out the episodehe goes.
(13:44):
He was like super emotional.
I know you haven't likelistened to it yet.
He's super emotional.
He's choked up at the start ofthe episode he goes.
Just yesterday I was droppingyou off at Rosecrans and you
said you're going to breathefire down my throat.
Yeah, that happens, but yeah,that's when I came up with the
whole evil persona.
(14:04):
March of 2023.
No-transcript.
After moving to Michigan afterthe summer had happened 2023.
Sorry, 2013.
Jacki (14:16):
I was going to say what Then?
Jon (14:19):
2014 was the times you guys .
2014 and 15 was when youvisited me in Michigan.
Okay, 2013 mostly happened here, so I came up with this persona
.
It's funny, too, because youdidn't grow up religious.
Jacki (14:36):
Nope, nope.
Jon (14:37):
Not at all Actually.
Jacki (14:39):
Like completely, like didn't even like bother to know
much about it.
Well, you didn't know.
Yeah, you didn't know anythingabout it.
I was not affected by it, right?
Jon (14:47):
You weren't brought up in it, you weren't taught it Like
it.
It almost, it almost wasnon-existent.
Yeah, Chris had to tell you itand you're like I had no idea
about this stuff.
Jacki (14:57):
Yeah, my parents were just all about being a good
person and the commandments ofjust being a human being.
Jon (15:03):
Right.
Jacki (15:07):
Which was nothing religious, but that's it.
I saw what religion did toeveryone else and I just kind of
Just did your own thing.
Jon (15:12):
I enjoyed my bubble Right right.
Jacki (15:15):
But yes, why then you guys opened me up for sure.
Jon (15:17):
I thought it was interesting, though, because, as
I like took on this persona oflike evil, I was like whacked
out right, and I'm literallytelling people that I'm like god
and the devil at the same time,you know.
And then everybody else waslike kind of like what is this
guy talking about?
And you're almost like lookingat it like it's theatrical.
So you and you enjoyed that,didn't you?
Jacki (15:39):
well, it's not that I enjoyed it like, oh my god,
you're going through somethingand I'm just entertained by it.
Jon (15:44):
Well, no, when I mean that I'm like, was it like I was
obviously like there were badparts about it well, right, I
mean what was interesting to youthough here.
Jacki (15:55):
Here's the thing.
Okay, for ever since I've knownyou, you have a pure heart,
like the purest of hearts.
Jon (16:02):
Appreciate that.
Jacki (16:03):
Yeah, and even in the darkest of times, like when you
were calling yourself evil, itwas love backwards.
Like, even in your darkest oftimes, you still cared about
being better and like love andyou were just like trying to
like find a part of you and sosure, like to be honest, like
maybe you showed it, but I feltjust as freaking crazy.
(16:25):
You know what I'm saying.
I think we all were like youknow, and I think the biggest
thing with me is like you wereunapologetically you Like it,
just like you are who you are.
There was nothing hiding and itdidn't matter how dark it got,
you were still reaching forsomething more.
So I'm not gonna lie, some ofthe stuff you did was funny.
You know I'm, I, I'm one ofyour best friends.
(16:48):
I have to laugh at you, um, butI saw where you were trying to
go, so I knew the darkness wasjust something that you had to
go through it was a phase.
Yeah, it was yeah that you weregonna find the other end,
because that's all.
That's all you ever thoughtabout.
You were way too hard onyourself.
(17:09):
That was always my biggestthing.
Jon (17:11):
Like you are way too hard on yourself I know you like were
so mad at yourself I know, andit beat me down for years,
though too, and even at thestart of my recovery and even
before, like even aftereverything that happened in
those years in 2013, when I hadcompletely lost my marbles I was
extremely hard on myself thewhole time.
(17:34):
I really appreciate you sayingthat, because I think the whole
time when I had like thatfalling out, that Chicago, john
and evil phase, I had fallenaway from the faith or how my
parents had brought me up andthe government and a whole bunch
of like institutions, I hadcompletely shed it and got rid
of it and I was just trying tofigure out what true love was
(17:59):
Not even like love for like yourpartner.
I was literally trying tounderstand why the world doesn't
love itself, why don't we loveourselves.
But I did it in a very angryway.
Jacki (18:17):
Well, it's not that you did it in an angry way.
We had a lot of anger in usbecause of things that we were
trying to escape from.
So that's the whole reason whywe were trying to find that love
, because we didn't want to beangry anymore, but unfortunately
, I was definitely part of it.
Jon (18:32):
Right, right.
It was the only way we knew howto express it.
Fortunately, I was definitelypart of it.
Right right, it was the onlyway we knew how to express it,
Because we were like these timesthat we were sharing doing
drugs, and in the apartmentswe're all just sitting kumbaya
circle.
It was because the world aroundus was filled with so much evil
and hate that we were justtrying to love, you know, and
we're trying to like separateourselves from that, you know.
(18:54):
Right, or just like find anytype of moment that we could
escape it, you know, and seewhat life's really about.
Right.
Jacki (19:02):
And not hold on to those things.
Jon (19:03):
Right, and the whole evil persona was me trying to figure
out a way that I didn'tunderstand, like why certain
religions didn't love everybody.
I didn't understand why certainpolitical parties hated the
opposition and people go oh it'snot hate, it's, it is hate.
You know, I was just trying tofigure out why all these lines
(19:25):
were drawn in the sand.
You know, like I wanted to.
The whole like thing was like Iwas.
I was coming up with all thesecrazy, weird formulas and shit
and chris was talking.
Chris always talks about likethe fucking triangles and the
shit like, and my other buddywho I'm gonna have on, uh, the
podcast.
Like my room at grand valleywas like covered in pieces of
(19:46):
paper and like you know, it'salways sunny in philadelphia,
right, you know the scene wherecharlie's at the post office
with the cigarette and he's likepointing and shit.
That was literally me at GrandValley trying to just figure out
a way to tell everybody that wecan love each other.
Jacki (20:05):
Life could be more.
Jon (20:06):
Life could be more, and I didn't start fully realizing
that until I had to learn tolove myself.
Jacki (20:13):
Oh, for sure.
Jon (20:15):
I mean, I know your perspective on it's different
and everybody like I'm in aposition now where I'm never
going to use again, just becauseof course I've.
I've lived that path, I've gonedown it, I've done what I've
done, you know, and I feel likeI've learned how to love my life
without all that shit, you know.
(20:36):
so this is why the chicago johnuh, volume one is happening
exactly this episode so I can,we can talk about this and
hopefully people can understandit too, that you gotta go
through some fucking shit ifyou're gonna learn how to love
yourself.
Jacki (20:51):
Yeah, you know well, you gotta figure out why you don't
first.
You know gotta figure out whyyou don't that and then start
reaching you know, trying tofigure out how you can how you
can.
Jon (21:02):
First you gotta realize why you don't I like that.
So there was this evil persona.
It came about and I had to goto um, I had to go to alexian
brothers and the chic ChicagoJohn kind of phased out and it
was just evil then, like to thepoint where I didn't want people
calling me John.
Jacki (21:22):
Yeah, it definitely took a turn.
Jon (21:25):
Yeah, it got weird.
Jacki (21:29):
Well, again, I never saw it as weird.
I mean, like you know, I knewwho you were before we got so
deep into drugs that I knew itwasn't like you had just lost
your mind.
I mean, well, you know, youweren't like a weird guy you're
right yeah again likeeverybody's weird when they're
all fucked up but, either way.
(21:51):
Um yeah, no, I didn't think youwere weird.
I just thought that you weredefinitely trying to investigate
an area you had to see through.
Jon (22:02):
I don't like the way you worded that, like you were
looking for something.
Yeah, that was the whole point.
Jacki (22:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Jon (22:09):
And.
Jacki (22:10):
There was no stopping you , we just had to be patient.
Jon (22:15):
Just had to let it run its course, really.
Jacki (22:16):
Yeah, exactly.
Jon (22:19):
The rehab facility definitely didn't help me out
with that, though I don't thinkso either.
Jacki (22:25):
I don't doubt that.
No, no, no.
Jon (22:30):
But that was still dating my first girlfriend at the time
and then, after I'd failed outof Grand Valley, we had moved
back here for a little bit andwe spent the summer or up until
like June.
We spent it here and we weregoing to different raves and
stuff like that, and I wassupposed to be getting sober.
(22:52):
But it wasn't genuine.
And this is the moment where Istarted being really hard on
myself, because I genuinelywanted to be sober.
I actually wanted to be soberwhen I started freshman year of
college, when I started doingdrugs.
I remember that year and I haddone like things like a few days
(23:13):
in a row and I'm like, allright, well, we got to like cut
this out.
And there was like a monologuein my head too, and it's crazy
because even at 18, I was likewe're not going to like achieve
our dreams unless we get sober,and I remember hearing that when
I was 18.
But it just took eight yearsfor that to actualize, you know.
Jacki (23:36):
Well, I mean, like you, it was something you definitely
always said and knew.
Jon (23:38):
It was just something you weren't ready for right, yeah,
so during that summer of 2013,like I wasn't genuine about
wanting to quit, I didn't seethe point in it.
I was having fun and there wereyeah, I was kind of forced on
you right too Right yeah.
Jacki (23:53):
It's not like you saw yourself having a problem.
It was obviously parents andwanting to you know us to be
better.
Jon (24:01):
Right?
Well, in all honesty, I lost alot of weight too, though.
Jacki (24:06):
Oh well, for sure yeah.
Jon (24:07):
Yeah, it was like 50 pounds gone.
Jacki (24:11):
Wow.
Jon (24:11):
Yeah, I went into Grand Valley 180.
Wow, and I went into grandvalley 180, wow, and I went into
alexian brothers 130 see, whenI met you, you were I was that
john, yeah, you were skinnyright, yeah, yeah I mean, but I
wasn't like I wasn't big when Iwent to gb, I was just kind of
like a bigger, built like jockokay, you know, but yeah, you
were in all the sports andeverything yeah, and then and
(24:32):
then, when I like had gotadmitted, it was, you know, like
I was sticks and bones at thatpoint that summer.
You know, it was veryinteresting because I was.
I was convinced I was going tobe a famous rapper.
I was convinced, famous I wasgoing to rap with the gloves on
my hands.
Jacki (24:50):
Well, see again, that's something that I don't think is
that crazy People are famousrappers.
You were definitely convinced,though, that you were God and
the devil at the same time, andthat was where.
I was like.
That's not true, john.
But I see why parts of you, youprobably had that devil and God
on your shoulders.
I was like that's not true,John, but I see why parts of you
, you probably had that deviland God on your shoulders.
(25:12):
You know what I'm saying Forsure.
And so sure I saw where you weregoing with that and I just saw
how literal you were taking it.
Jon (25:21):
This is going too deep now.
Jacki (25:23):
Normally in sitcoms you see the little devil and the
angel on the shoulders, and thenthere'd be the laugh track at
the dark part there was no laughtrack.
Jon (25:32):
no, no, no, no, but that, uh, I think I had that fall too.
So I had worked here for thesummer, uh, my girlfriend and I,
and then we had moved back.
Um, when I got fired from thefamily business which was
hilarious and I had moved backup to Michigan, my mom and my
(25:55):
aunts like drove up every fewweeks to like buy groceries for
me and stuff.
Still like super grateful forthat too Got a lot of love and
support.
Had a lot of love and support.
I didn't.
I didn't see that at the time,but I've definitely.
I think I've said thank you toeveryone who was there through
that shit.
Um, still never gave up thewhole being an entertainer dream
(26:19):
, although like doing thepodcast and the book is.
Jacki (26:21):
I'm saying that that's a part of you that's who you are.
That wasn't like drugs.
That just made you I I thinkthe drugs made you actually like
realize that you can be like.
You can dream things and bethem.
You know what I mean.
It just like made you want todream Like it made me want to
dream.
Yeah, I don't think youthinking you were going to be a
professional rapper was crazy,because it's in you for sure.
(26:43):
Like every, like I said, allthis entertaining things are in
you.
Jon (26:47):
Right, it's not the drugs that did it.
Yeah, but I let society tell methat those dreams were bad,
mostly because, like as you know, I come from like a pretty I'd
say generic family in terms oflike aunts and uncles, cousins,
and stuff.
It's like oh, go to school, toschool, get a job start a family
(27:08):
traditional orthodox stuff,right.
When you say anything that's outof line with that, like the
eyes get really big.
You know, if you're like, oh, Iwant to be an artist or a
rapper, you know people startlooking at you like, well,
you're gonna make enough moneydoing that and it's like I
didn't want life to be all aboutmaking money exactly you know
so the drugs did help me realizethat I can dream big, you know.
Jacki (27:34):
Yeah, you start exploring , like all these talents.
Anything you wanted to do, youtried, you know.
Jon (27:40):
Right, I don't look back on regretting any of that.
Fuck, you shouldn't.
No, fuck no.
I wouldn't be writing raps anddancing with gloves on.
I wouldn't be doing any of thatshit.
Yeah, you know, it doesn't meanthat all these pieces are still
here.
Jacki (27:53):
You just don't have the drugs anymore.
Jon (27:55):
Exactly, you don't need them right, you know, and it's
crazy because I I I find that alot like mental health.
This is was a mental healthpodcast for a little bit.
We've talked, talked about theimportance of habits and hobbies
too, and sometimes when I heara lot about the mental health
problems with like people ourage or maybe a little older or
(28:15):
something like you, ask peoplelike, well, what are your
hobbies?
And people are like, oh, youknow, watch TV, go on my phone
and Lisa gives me shit because Ihave too many hobbies.
It's almost like a revolver orlike you know, the wheel that
you spin.
It's like which one am I goingto do now?
I get overwhelmed by how manyhobbies I can do, you know.
(28:37):
So now, like, looking back atthat, it's like something
definitely to be grateful.
Jacki (28:41):
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, I think you have to havethose hobbies.
I mean, what did everybody dowith all these screens and
everything you know?
Jon (28:49):
we just can't have to yeah it's.
Jacki (28:51):
It's you have to like explore these pieces of you.
How else are you gonna know whoyou are if you're not willing
to like put yourself out thereand try new things?
right it's not even saying youhave to do drugs, but just like
you know, you, you do, you doguitar and you've tried rap.
I mean you try rapping.
I mean you practice rapping andyou've written a book.
And just like you never toldyourself no, you never set any
(29:14):
limits, and it's, quite honestly, always been inspirational for
me because it just made me belike, oh fuck, yeah, let's do
that.
Jon (29:23):
You're like.
This man literally doesn't sayno to anything.
Jacki (29:26):
I want to do that too.
Jon (29:29):
It's it's.
It's exhausting sometimes, butfor sure.
Jacki (29:33):
I love it though because, again, you're too hard on
yourself, because you're like oh, I love all these hobbies, but
I haven't done this one in solong and I got to do that.
I got to do that.
You also need to chill.
Jon (29:44):
You know I'm bad at that, bad at relaxing, yeah, but
having the ability to not say no, no limits, like you just said.
You're not telling people to goand do drugs.
I'm not telling people to goand do drugs.
If there's anything I couldtell people out of everything I
went through, it's that youshouldn't limit yourself.
You should literally just tryactivities, things dreams,
(30:06):
absolutely Like fuck it all.
Shouldn't limit yourself.
You should literally just tryactivities, things dreams,
absolutely fuck it all.
Just go and do it likeotherwise, like one of the
biggest regrets.
If you ask people who are dyingor older and they always regret
like not like when they toldthemselves no right, they wish
they did more, or they wish theywent yourself out there.
Jacki (30:26):
I should have done this and said this Right.
Jon (30:29):
So why not fucking do it then?
You know, I just had to, youknow, figure out that there's a
healthy way to do it.
So right now, with my healthnearing like the pinnacle that
it is, I'm able to enjoy thesehobbies wellness, positivity and
stuff.
But I do have to thank ChicagoJohn for bringing me Chicago.
Jacki (30:46):
John was a shit ton of fun.
Jon (30:50):
I actually had somebody last year who wasn't around for
the Chicago John phase.
He was on the podcast and hegoes.
Man, I wish I was like therewhen you were doing that because
I bet you were a lot of fun andI'm like I you know.
I was oh yeah I think I was, atleast when I did come home that
fall of 2013 after you know, uh,my girlfriend and I broke up
(31:14):
and I had moved back here.
The chicago john persona endedthere because my tenor in
michigan had kind of ended therein 2013, um, and I had gotten
through the evil phase too.
So I was like, okay, it'sprobably just John now you know
yeah it balanced out.
Jacki (31:33):
I did, However the devil and got on your shoulders again.
Jon (31:36):
Yeah, and I'm like all right, they're there, but I'm
John you know, and.
I in the fall.
I remember it Cause I do stillkeep a lot of my writings from
10 years ago, and I had writtendown like that's gold.
I have kept everything.
That's gold.
There was something I hadwritten before I had moved and
(31:56):
left the place with my ex and Ihad kind of compiled like all of
my poetry at the time into likea 60-page book.
I was going to get published orsomething.
But, I never got around to it.
It was like called the Risegoing to get published or
something, but I never gotaround to it.
It was like called the rise andfall of evil or something, and
at the end of it I had writtensomething that had said like,
like evil and John Cerrone havebeen battling it out and now
(32:20):
only John Cerrone is left.
Jacki (32:22):
I think I actually have one of your evil poems.
I don't know if it's that exactone or not, but I have
something.
Jon (32:28):
Really.
Jacki (32:28):
Oh, I have something from that.
Jon (32:29):
I kind of want to see it.
Can you find it?
It's in my email.
Jacki (32:32):
yeah, it's in your email Because I was going through all
my starred emails.
I'm crazy, okay.
And.
I was deleting really oldthings and going through like
what do I still need?
Because I've had this emailsince I was a child and, yeah, I
saw I have like three poems inhere.
(32:53):
No, shit three writings orsomething.
I don't know how long it'sgonna.
I mean, we can keep talking.
I can try and look if you want,or save it, I don't know.
Would you want me to look?
Jon (33:02):
how long you think I'm.
Yeah, I mean you look, fuck it,find it shit keep talking um
you know what.
Maybe I can actually do a searchyeah, but I had come home that
fall and, uh, kind of gotten ridof those partying personas, but
you know, the the drug doingdancing gloving rapper still
lived on even when I moved backhere.
(33:23):
Um, and then we had the timesthat you would come and visit uh
me when I was in Michigan in2014 and 2015.
Well, there was one other thingthat you had mentioned, and it
was a.
It was a talent show, right,yeah, so I had got readmitted
back into Grand Valley.
After getting sober for thefirst time, I got my grades up,
(33:44):
got readmitted, went back to GVthat year in 2015.
2016 was the talent show,though, and it was in the fall,
and I had choreographed a dancewith my gloves and my shoes, and
I did it to the Odessa song.
Say my Name.
Jacki (34:01):
At school.
Jon (34:02):
At school.
Jacki (34:03):
In front of everyone Sober, sober, yeah At school.
In front of everyone Sober,sober.
Jon (34:05):
Yeah, sober in front of like that the auditorium was
packed.
It was like two or three hundredpeople.
It was crazy and they turnedthe lights off.
They turned the lights off forme and I was so happy because I
was like worried.
I'm like I had asked him toturn the lights off.
I didn't know Like thisanything for three whole days
(34:26):
leading up to it, because I wasall worried.
I'm like, oh what if they onlyturn off some of the lights?
You know that my lights aren'tgoing to be bright.
I can't smoke right now.
I got to practice the dancelike I was freaking out and shit
.
It was weird because I like waswalking through the common area
, like on my way from a class orsomething, and this is what you
said, probably like a half hourago.
You're like you always had yourgloves on you and even when I
(34:55):
wasn't like chicago, john, youknow, but he'll, he'll never die
.
Jacki (34:56):
He's still inside me and I always had my gloves on me.
Jon (34:57):
Oh yeah, long after you're sober, you still had your gloves
on you and there was a sign asI'm walking through the common
area and it's like talent showauditions.
I'm like what the fuck is thisall about, you know?
And I had my gloves on me and Ilike walked in and I'm like you
guys still doing like auditions?
And they're like, oh, we'reabout to close up.
I'm like all right, sick.
Can I like dance?
Like yeah, sure, and I liketurn the lights off and dance to
(35:19):
um a song it was a chrisleyremix or something and they're
like, yeah, you're in.
Totally, that was dope, allright, because it was kids on
the panel too and I was allexcited.
They're like, yeah, talentshows in like three weeks or
something.
I'm like, all right, cool.
This is the first time I hadlike performed in front of
people, like all the other timespreviously I had like performed
(35:42):
like in a room full of, likeyou know, hippies and stoners
and shit, which is fine.
You know, performing in front ofanybody is tough because you're
expressing yourself and you'revulnerable.
This was like.
This was big, you know, and Ifucking killed it.
I think I did.
Jacki (35:59):
Oh yeah.
Jon (35:59):
Yeah, I didn't win, though, because there was some girl
there who could sing like anabsolute angel.
She fucking won.
Yeah, I was standing there.
Jacki (36:07):
Everyone went there with talents, everyone, yeah, no for
sure, everyone there wasextremely talented.
Jon (36:12):
It was great, but I think everyone was also there not even
for the actual competition.
Everyone was there just toperform because they wanted to.
Jacki (36:20):
Yeah, just have some fun, yeah.
Jon (36:22):
And yeah, as I fucking-.
Jacki (36:24):
It's not like you won anything, right I?
Jon (36:26):
won something internally.
Jacki (36:28):
Yeah, but like that's what I mean.
It's not like there's like thisbig prize.
Everyone went because they justwanted to like do something
they loved, yeah.
That they were good at.
Jon (36:37):
The competition was with myself.
I'm like I want to bevictorious over my own.
How do I say it?
Embarrassment, you know.
Uh, embarrassment, you know.
Jacki (36:51):
I want to win this instance of me not being okay in
front of a bunch of people.
I well then, like we were likedetermined to show the world
that, like you know, thesethings would be really cool yeah
right.
Jon (37:00):
Well, like, because people like looked at the, the gloves
and the lights rolled their eyesright, right, yeah.
I didn't even think about thattoo, because, like when I went
up there and the lights went offand like I think people in the
auditorium were like what thefuck's going on?
You know because no one likesees, shit like that.
People were cheering the wholetime, though, too, which was
pretty neat, you know.
(37:20):
I think my cousin's wife said Ishould like put something
together for America's GotTalent, and I was like it's a
lot of work, you know, but Ithink I'm just going to like try
and pick it up as a hobby again, you know.
Jacki (37:33):
Yeah, why not?
Jon (37:35):
It's just finding the time as we get older.
You know, that's the big thing.
Jacki (37:39):
You'll make time for the things you want to, though.
Jon (37:42):
Yeah, you're goddamn right For sure.
So what else do we got?
You know, we've talked a lotabout that era actually in a
good way, a bad way, a very wiseway.
Fuck.
You think we got anything else.
Jacki (38:03):
I mean, I don't know, it's really just up to me.
Do feel, yeah, do you feel likewe've covered chicago, john,
enough, uh, for we've saidenough stories or perspectives.
Jon (38:17):
Yeah, I think I think we've done really good for the first
volume yep yeah I reallyappreciate you being the first
person to help me through this.
Jacki (38:25):
Thank you.
I appreciate you having me bethe first person here.
Jon (38:29):
Honestly, like I was wondering who was going to be
the first and I asked you.
Jacki (38:34):
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Jon (38:35):
Well, you were there for it .
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Jacki (38:39):
I'm always your biggest fan.
Well, I'm your second biggestfan, lisa's your biggest fan.
Yeah, that is biggest fan.
I was your biggest fan, right,right right, lisa came in though
yeah yeah, um, yeah.
Jon (38:51):
I really appreciate you helping me through this um and
being my friend through all ofit.
Yeah always yeah, I reallyappreciate it.
Um, I think we're gonna endhere, though, so I hope
everybody has enjoyed theepisode.
Uh, like follow and all thatgood stuff for more Chicago,
john and feel free.
Goodness, we'll be back in afew weeks, but you all know the
(39:15):
drill Stay up and feel free.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Intentionally Disturbing
Join me on this podcast as I navigate the murky waters of human behavior, current events, and personal anecdotes through in-depth interviews with incredible people—all served with a generous helping of sarcasm and satire. After years as a forensic and clinical psychologist, I offer a unique interview style and a low tolerance for bullshit, quickly steering conversations toward depth and darkness. I honor the seriousness while also appreciating wit. I’m your guide through the twisted labyrinth of the human psyche, armed with dark humor and biting wit.