October 14, 2024 • 29 mins
Ever wondered how beliefs shape your emotions and decisions? Join me, Judge Lynn Toler, as I recount a riveting courtroom experience from the 1990s involving a defendant who claimed to be both Jesus and Adam. This sets the stage for a broader exploration of the urgent need to question and test our beliefs in a world awash with misinformation. With the lines between facts and opinions often blurred by social media, it's crucial to arm ourselves with strategies like the "10th man" approach and the "three book rule" to ensure a well-rounded perspective. It's not just about challenging others' beliefs but also critically assessing our own, including mine, to protect your emotional borders and work with your emotions intentionally.
Dive into the nuances of critical thinking and the pitfalls of confirmation bias with this thought-provoking episode. Discover how premature opinions can lock us into rigid beliefs, making us resistant to fresh ideas. We also navigate the intricate dance between truth and lies, emphasizing the importance of discernment and the flexibility to adapt when new information arises. Embrace the art of gracefully managing your thoughts and emotions, maintaining personal sovereignty, and staying in charge of the decisions that shape your life. Let this episode empower you to refine your critical thinking skills, so you can make more informed choices and confidently navigate a complex world.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know her as the longest presiding judge on
divorce court, for more than 14years.
Marriage boot camp and manyother programs.
A graduate of Harvard, judgeLynn Toler is the author of my
Mother's Rules Making MarriageWork and Dear Sonali Letters to
the Daughter I Never had, all ofwhich are dedicated to the
proper emotion, what it is andhow to find it.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Remember under your skin is a sovereign country.
Don't go passing out passportsall willy-nilly to people who
don't belong there.
Let me help you protect youremotional borders so we can all
start feeling on purpose.
Hey, how you doing this isJudge Lynn Toler with another
(00:41):
episode of Feeling On Purpose,the podcast dedicated to the
proposition of working youremotions like the job they are.
Don't just go around feelingstuff and behaving so.
Think between how you feel andwhat you do, so we can stay out
of a little trouble, some of thetrouble that we keep making for
ourselves.
This episode is about beliefs.
(01:02):
Who are you going to believe?
Who are you going to listen to?
How do you determine what tobelieve that make me feel good,
as opposed to facts that areactually true?
(01:29):
You know, because we all glomon to facts that make us feel
good.
But in doing that and we'veseen this on the internet you
create a constant reinvention ofyour feelings, without real
discernment as to whether or notthat idea, that belief, is
(01:55):
really cool.
Because my thing is this themore often I figure out I'm
wrong, the more likely I am tobe right.
But if I hang on to my ideaslike they're my children, I'm
going to protect them againstall comers, even when a new idea
would be better.
I'm going to start out now.
(02:15):
When you talk about beliefs topeople, you really go to the
heart of their matter, becausepeople's beliefs define how they
feel about themselves.
But I'm not talking aboutbeliefs so much as believing
ideas.
Now let me explain what I'msaying.
I was in court it was 1990, Idon't know five or six,
(02:40):
something like that and I had atrial six, something like that
and I had a trial and a guy wasbeing it was a jury trial and a
guy was being accused ofstalking this other guy.
So the guy that the defendant Icall him Mr Smith.
Mr Smith did not have anattorney.
Mr Smith told me he didn'tbelieve he needed an attorney.
(03:03):
Told me he didn't believe heneeded an attorney and Mr Smith
was arrogant.
Mr Smith used to go into myclerk's office and file
paperwork that was inappropriateand when they wouldn't take it
he would always say wait till myfather gets a hold of you.
So anyway, we're at trial andthe first part of any trial is
(03:24):
called voir dire, where you askpeople questions, your potential
jurors questions to see if theymight see if they're going to
be good, fair jurors, and youcan always excuse ones that you
don't think are going to be.
That way you can have that.
So the prosecutor got up KimSegelbroth, I'll never forget it
and he asked all of hisquestions, trying to determine
(03:47):
who he wanted on the jury.
Then the defendant got up andsaid do you all believe in Jesus
Christ?
And it just so happened I had apanel full of Christians.
I had a really actuallywonderful conservative Jewish
population that I just loved,but they were wonderful people,
(04:07):
but none of them happened to bethere that day.
So everybody raised their handand my man, mr Smith, said as
long as you believe in me, Iain't got any problem with any
of you, and sat down.
So everything stopped.
The potential jurors and thejurors all went out.
I had to bring everybody up Athis person can.
This person understands theproceedings, he understands the
(04:50):
potential penalties and he alsounderstands who and what all the
people in the courtroom to do,what the prosecutor's job is,
what his job is, what my job is.
And then I ask him well, whatare you going to do?
What are you going to say?
You know, to determine whetheror not in specifics, but
determine whether or not he hada handle on things and he could
(05:10):
participate meaningfully in hisdefense.
Based on the conversation thatthe three of us had me, him and
the prosecutor he was competentto stand trial, so I had to let
the trial go forward.
Now, interestingly enough, youknow how when you on jury duty
and you don't get picked, yourun home.
Every single solitary potentialjuror that wasn't picked came
(05:34):
right back around and sat in mycourtroom, because that was
fascinating.
Boyfriend Mr Smith got up andtold the jury ah, not only am I
Jesus, I'm also Adam in theGarden of Eden Forgot the
garden's name Isn't that awful.
And that man the one that he wasaccused of harassing tried to
(05:57):
rape Eve.
So that man said that the guyhe was with sexually misused Eve
.
So there you go, and the trialwent forward and afterwards the
jury asked me how could you letthat happen?
And I said here's why Neitheryou nor I can factually
(06:20):
establish Mr Smith was not Jesus.
That's his belief system and we, you know, we can't get in
there and do that.
He has to be able to understandthe facts and the situation and
the proceedings and that issufficient.
You have to make sure heunderstood the ideas.
(06:41):
You didn't have to agree withhis beliefs, and that's what I
am very adamant about, becausein this day and age of social
media, it is quite easy forpeople to tell you things just
ain't true.
People get on Now.
I personally believe a platformand opinion does not an expert
(07:03):
make now, and that I personallybelieve also that that applies
to me.
I don't think you shouldbelieve anything I say unless
you test it out first.
Look for the logic in it anddon't just look at that.
Look for people, conversations,that say I'm wrong.
You can't know I'm right unlessyou know I'm not wrong, and you
(07:27):
have to.
You have to do that.
I have problems with theauthority People.
If you have a degree, let mestart all over again.
If you have a degree, a PhD inastrophysics, I'm going to
believe what you tell me aboutthe stars.
Believe what you tell me aboutthe stars.
(07:49):
Now, if you have a degree innothing and you want to tell me
about men and women and marriageand who's doing what to whom,
you got to lay out some reasonsfor me to believe you and what
people often do.
When they don't have it backedup by and yes, I know my shirt
and my thing don't match If youdon't have it backed up by and
yes, I know my shirt and mything don't match If you don't
have it backed up by degrees orbooks or anything like that,
(08:10):
what you do is you try to find.
You try to find.
You try to sound, unlike me,extraordinarily authoritative.
Men are always women.
Are this that you're not?
When you truly understandsomething, it is very, very
difficult to be unequivocalabout it.
(08:31):
I would never say all men thisor all women that or this is how
to be married to Eric mightdrive another man to distraction
, and the extent to which wewant to buy ideas wholesale and
(08:54):
in bulk, it can be problematic.
This is what I like to dobefore I believe something and
I'm not talking about religiousbeliefs, I'm not.
Mr Smith is allowed to be MrSmith, but I like it.
I don't like listening to peoplewho never say I don't know.
(09:14):
You ever watch a lot of peopleand come and say I don't know,
what is that, I don't understand.
And I was talking about adegree in astrophysics and it
was like everybody knows NeildeGrasse Tyson and he was
sitting there talking tosomebody once and they were, and
in the middle of it the guysaid something and Neil said I
don't know what that is.
(09:35):
When you're confident that youknow what you're talking about,
you can readily say I don't knowwhat that is, you know.
And I also don't like to takeadvice or information from
people who don't own their bias.
Ain't nobody on this world, onthis earth, not biased in some
way, shape or form?
(09:55):
You were born in a certaincommunity, at a certain time,
with certain people, and certainthings are common to you, they
are normal to you.
Some things disgust you and ifyou go into one culture from
another culture, from anotherculture, that which is innately
disgusting, that any human beingwouldn't be able to tolerate,
(10:18):
is always different.
Some countries it's an outrageif a woman eats fish within
certain amount of time of herhusband's death.
I mean, there's just so manydifferent things.
You can't go into a Catholicchurch and act like a Baptist.
Priests don't want you toholler hey, yes, preach.
(10:38):
Now you go to a black church.
They get mad at you if youdon't say something.
You, sitting there, quiet, likeyou in a Catholic church Rev,
will say something to you.
Y'all not hearing me today.
Can I get an amen?
I mean, it is a conversationbetween the congregation and the
minister, but what isappropriate in one place is not
(11:02):
appropriate in another place.
So you got to make sure you knowhow what you've been through
breaks up the light you shine oneverything else.
If you've had three reallyhorrible women in a row who got
(11:26):
pregnant and back to the fold,or if you had three horrible men
in a row that did the exactsame thing, you're going to
start saying women are, men are.
And my response to that is theones you picked were the ones
around you were or the ones youlike were.
Sometimes you have to dateagainst type, if the type of
guys that you date or the typeof women you date are causing
(11:47):
you pain.
But anyway, I've gotten offtrack.
I was talking about people Itend to believe.
I tend to believe people whoopen with their week.
You see what I'm saying thebiases that they have.
Everybody is biased, I'm biased, and I had to work through my
biases actively every day,especially being a judge.
(12:10):
And I remember when I was ajudge in Ohio and they had a,
they wanted somebody to createthe judicial curriculum.
You know, because we have tohave a continuing education
component, and I said I would doit if I could include a class
on.
It wasn't emotionalintelligence, because that term
wasn't out anymore, butunderstanding bias and your own
(12:31):
prejudice.
You know, and I was going toopen up each class, how many of
you in here are prejudiced?
And I know, and I was going toopen up each class, how many of
you in here are prejudiced.
And I was going to say andnobody would have raised their
hand.
And I said y'all wrong.
Let me tell you why.
Everybody has a perspective.
Personally, I like to call itlean.
I wrote a book called DearSonali and I was struggling.
(12:53):
Struggling to write it becauseto give advice in bulk can be
very, very dangerous, becauseall anything my mother told me,
she told my sister the opposite,because we were opposite people
.
You know she was trying to pullmy sister in the house, she was
trying to push me out.
All of your all people aredifferent.
(13:15):
So categorical advice, it makesme nervous.
So what I did in that book is Ispent a chapter talking about my
perspective, which I call alean.
And I call it a lean becauseperspective seems like a fixed
point in time.
You know it's my perspective.
I'm standing on this boulder,on this mountain and I'm seeing
(13:38):
these things.
A lean is something that issubject to change.
I can lean over here until somefacts come up and I can lean
back this way.
But I also have to tell youwhat's wrong with my emotional
house.
I tend to be worried andanxious.
You must take that into accountwhen you take advice from me.
(14:00):
I tend to lean a little dark.
You know I see catastrophe alot.
I adjust for these all the time, but I don't think I do it
perfectly.
So I tell people I lead with myweek a little bit so you can
interpret what I'm saying, andthen, in an effort to have a
(14:23):
conversation with women I didnot know I asked them to start
creating their second set ofeyes and, if you recall, a
second set of eyes is a conceptmy mother had, my mother's rules
.
I considered her an emotionalgenius and she always taught me
that a part of you always has tostep away from yourself and
(14:43):
watch yourself like you'resomebody else, because when you
are in a situation, you are soimmersed in your own emotions
and your own discomfort or yourown joy or whatever your own
emotions and your own discomfortor your own joy or whatever you
really can't accurately seeunless you practice always being
able to step away from yourselfand use your second set of eyes
(15:06):
I'm being beleaguered by aGerman shepherd, I apologize
your second set of eyes so theycould know who they are a little
better and when you know whoyou are, I mean, and not just
what you do well, but what youdon't do well.
I always say people want to puttheir best foot forward, and
(15:27):
that's fine, but I like to focuson the one that's dragging
behind, because that's thesucker that's going to trip you
up should you have to break outinto a run.
I mean, that's just what thatis.
So I'd like people to know that.
I'd like to know that peoplehave the ability to say I don't
know.
I like to know that people knowthat they are biased in some
(15:49):
way shape or form.
I'm biased by my upbringing.
What I think a marriage shouldbe is determined in part about
how my parents' marriage was andhow my husband's marriage was.
So you know I have to sharethat so everybody can see the
patina of whatever I've wentthrough, have the patina of
(16:10):
whatever I went through.
You know colors, what I see andwhat I do.
Another thing I found importantto keep me on the straight and
narrow is never conclude toosoon.
You get a little piece ofinformation here.
You get a little piece ofinformation there.
Somebody puts a thread throughit and makes you feel like it's
(16:31):
true.
I remember when they did had uh, and any theory you put
together you can string.
So you can string it together.
It's a possibility.
We tell stories all the time.
So if you get a little bit ofthis, a little bit of that and
like, like seeds of informationand then you plant it in the
soil of of your, of your past,of your understanding, of your
(16:57):
biases, of your feelings of ofyour past, of your understanding
of your biases, of yourfeelings of your personality is
going to grow.
But it don't grow, but itdoesn't mean that that's what it
is.
If you conclude too soon, thenyou put your mind in a little
bitty box and it is imperviousto, or at least resists new
(17:21):
information because you've cometo a conclusion and we get very,
very, very attached to theconclusions to which we come.
You can watch on TV and I don'tcare what side you're on or
anything.
Watch on TV and I don't carewhat side you're on or anything.
If people, you talk to somebodyabout politics or somebody, and
they'll base their opinion onsomething they just know to be
(17:44):
true.
You can show that it's not trueand they never say I got to
reconsider.
They move on because they'veattached their very being and
how they feel about themselvesto how right they are about that
idea.
And it's hard to let go becauseyou've functioned, you've made
(18:04):
decisions all in accordance withthat idea and to say that idea
is now wrong.
You have to dismantle all ofthat stuff.
You did, all that stuff youbelieved, and people don't want
to do that.
It's not easy, it's verydifficult.
One of my mother's rules is toput a period on things.
In other words, when you learnsomething new or you realize you
(18:27):
were wrong about something, notonly do you have to say hi, I
was wrong, but it helps to alsosay, okay, what have I done
based on that wrong idea?
Or what other ideas have Icreated based on this bad idea,
and I got to dismantle them.
(18:48):
Now People, people, peopledon't do that, you just.
Well, that wasn't right, andthey don't realize how often
they use that thought or thatbelief.
Then again, don't believe yourpeople.
I listen to my people all thetime, but I don't just believe
them because they have the samelimitations that I do.
As far as well, that's notnecessarily true.
(19:11):
We're all very, very different,we all.
But the more alike people are,the more their perspectives are
the same and the more theirbiases are likely to be the same
.
And so you can.
The zombies were taken overeverywhere except this one
country, and they prepped for itand they got through it and
(19:49):
they were there.
And he said how did you guysfigure this out?
Why didn't you make themistakes everybody else made?
He said because we have a 10thman.
Nine men all agree that X ishappening.
The 10th man always has tovehemently and vigorously
support the other side.
(20:10):
It allows your ideas to gethoned and corrected.
It allows your ideas to getpolished by the facts and the
feelings and the informationthat is not available within a
limited silo of beliefs.
You know, that's number one.
Number two, that's not numberone.
(20:32):
I don't know.
I say that sometimes it justisn't true.
But anyway, just becausesomebody is good at one thing
doesn't mean you need to believethem about all things we tend
to get it's.
You know what part of theproblem is.
You know, as nature often does,we want low energy and high
(20:52):
entropy.
You know what I mean.
Just, you don't want to.
You don't want to.
That's not true.
But I take that entropystatement back.
It's hard to deal with a wholelot of detail and nuance, it is
hard to function if you don'thave a set of ideas and beliefs
(21:14):
that allow you not to wonder andget confused and get all.
And so what we do is we try to,we settle on something and
that's it, because it keeps usfrom having to fight with all
the new information and all ofthat and you have some comfort.
You can predict things when youhave a belief system like that,
(21:37):
but it's always be willing totest your beliefs and always be,
and never just take it from onegroup.
For instance, I used to havethis three book rule.
First of all, I get tied up intopics Like I got tied up in
World War.
I Like why did it happen?
(21:59):
I know about Archduke Ferdinandand all of that kind of stuff,
but why did the entire world goto war over that?
And it takes a lot of history.
You know you go through it, butI had to read at least three
different books on it, fromthree different sources, from
three different directions, andI ended up reading more than
three because it just fascinatedme.
(22:21):
But if there's like aphilosophical, you know, a
belief system or books orsomething about something, I
will read one book from thisside, one book from that side
and then at least one book thatcontends that they are down the
middle or just being factual.
And between at least thosethree I have a fighting chance
(22:44):
of pulling out the pertinentinformation that is correct and
I will make fewer errors in myunderstanding than I otherwise
would if I committed to aposition too soon.
Do you know what I mean.
Worriers, people like me who areanxious.
We commit to a position ofcatastrophe too soon.
(23:06):
The minute I can't findsomething, I've decided that
I've lost it forever.
The minute I can't, you know,don't jump to the wrong
conclusion, and your emotions,your feelings, your feelings of
fear, your feelings ofinsecurity, your feelings of
whatever, will often inform thatmy worry pushes me to negative
(23:30):
conclusions.
So I have to know in real time.
I've got 30% more negative onthis than there should be.
I got to take it off.
I got to take it off becauseyou have to know who you are and
how.
Who you are, as I said, bendsthe light that you shine on the
new things that you see.
(23:51):
Don't buy your ideas in bulkeither.
Just because someone's rightabout A, they don't mean they're
right about B, c or D,especially if B, c and D are not
within their wheelhouse.
You know, and then you have todo some extra special emotional
work to sift through what socialmedia can do.
(24:16):
For instance, every once in awhile I have to adjust my
algorithm, because it starts tofeed you what you were
interested in for a while andthen, once it does that, it
limits everything.
You see a whole lot in this onearea and you don't see things
in other areas.
And then I I intentionallyfollow people that I do not
(24:36):
believe, that I think are wrongon the other side of whatever.
So I can always I don't feellike.
So I understand why they feelthe way that they do, because
that's the only way that you canget people to change their mind
.
You can't get people to changetheir mind by simply saying to
them hey, you're wrong, and thisis why you have to say how do
(24:58):
you feel about that?
Well, why do you feel that way?
What would you like to happen?
And you start where they areand you slowly walk them home.
Keeps them from fighting you upfront, keeps you.
And if you know how people,what people are really afraid of
, or what people really love, orwhat people really want, you
might be able to give them whatthey need, while they're able to
(25:20):
give you what they need, whilethey're able to give you what
you need, because the need thatthey need satisfied may not be
the one that they're holleringabout.
You know what I mean Peoplegetting out on road, rage and
doing this and that they're notupset that upset with that.
But something else went on.
Something else went on and thensome people are just road
raging.
That could be true as well, butyou know, I'm scared.
(25:42):
I don't know about you, but theother social media thing that
frightens me is what I call thewell-sandwiched lie.
Now I'm going to turn my screenover here.
I'm a low-tech chick trying todo a high-tech thing.
Well, wait a minute, Let me tryto do it first before I turn
(26:03):
that over there, because I don'tknow what I'm doing.
It's the most remarkable thingI have seen, not the most
remarkable thing I have seen.
I tend to engage in hyperbole.
That's another thing you oughtto know about me, especially
when it comes to me messing up.
I tend to be, I tend to be.
I just, I just tend to be.
I just think that stuff ishilarious.
(26:24):
But anyway, I want to turn yourattention to Lord.
Have mercy Now.
I want you to see this and I'mgoing to turn my camera over.
I hope this turns out all right, okay.
YouTube premium is ad, freeYouTube and exclusive access to
all things.
Now they did this site calledBlack Hollywood Legends.
(26:46):
Now, first of all, the onlypart they got right is that I'm
Black, I'm not Hollywood and I'mnot a legend.
Be that as it may Be, that asit may, they did a little piece
on me, like 17 minutes talkingabout where I went to school,
all of that, and they were rightabout all of it.
That's where I used to work,all of that, all of those things
(27:08):
were true.
Where I worked, the books Iwrote, they had a picture of the
people that I wrote books with.
But at nine minutes and 18seconds they decide.
They decide to just make somestuff up.
They say I own a mansion on theScioto River which they call
(27:31):
the Sciota Sciota Look at thatwith lime green chairs and
frills and flowers and frillsand flowers.
They do a five minuteexamination of a home, talking
about what I had in it and whyit was there and why I picked it
.
Then they'd said I had anapartment in Atlanta, really
(27:53):
nice apartment, but I don't.
And then they go back to mycharitable work and all of that.
Most of that is accurate, butfor some reason they decided to
give a detailed five to sevenminute lie for no reason, about
who I am, what I do and where Igo.
I'm not an important person.
(28:14):
That lie doesn't matter, butit's demonstrative of the
problem.
You know, if you, if you theability to package and to
sandwich things inside thepackage, a lie inside a truth is
, is, is, is is very real.
And if you know some of thethings that you see there are
(28:36):
true, you're going to tend tobelieve that the rest of them is
true.
And that happens a lot.
And now the dogs are coming, sothat means I got to go soon.
But here let me say this to youthe whole point of this, the
whole point of this thing, is becareful who you believe, and
don't believe too strong toolong until you've you've you've
(28:58):
really assessed it.
And when you do believe, alwaysbe willing to put it under a
big, bright light of what now DoI have new information that
does not, that doesn't complywith what I always thought.
My favorite tolerism on this isonly go steady with your ideas,
never marry them, because thatway, when a new and a better one
(29:21):
shows up, you can switchwithout doing a whole lot of
emotional paperwork.
Alimony on bad ideas whoo.
But anyhow, y'all have a goodday and remember under your skin
is sovereign country.
Don't go handing out passportsall willy-nilly to people who
don't belong there.
You're in charge, you feel, notanybody else.
(29:43):
Don't act a fool, though.
Just be cool.
Y'all have a great day.
You know her as the longest presiding judge on
divorce court, for more than 14years.
Marriage boot camp and manyother programs.
A graduate of Harvard, judgeLynn Toler is the author of my
Mother's Rules Making MarriageWork and Dear Sonali Letters to
the Daughter I Never had, all ofwhich are dedicated to the
proper emotion, what it is andhow to find it.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Remember under your skin is a sovereign country.
Don't go passing out passportsall willy-nilly to people who
don't belong there.
Let me help you protect youremotional borders so we can all
start feeling on purpose.
Hey, how you doing this isJudge Lynn Toler with another
(00:41):
episode of Feeling On Purpose,the podcast dedicated to the
proposition of working youremotions like the job they are.
Don't just go around feelingstuff and behaving so.
Think between how you feel andwhat you do, so we can stay out
of a little trouble, some of thetrouble that we keep making for
ourselves.
This episode is about beliefs.
(01:02):
Who are you going to believe?
Who are you going to listen to?
How do you determine what tobelieve that make me feel good,
as opposed to facts that areactually true?
(01:29):
You know, because we all glomon to facts that make us feel
good.
But in doing that and we'veseen this on the internet you
create a constant reinvention ofyour feelings, without real
discernment as to whether or notthat idea, that belief, is
(01:55):
really cool.
Because my thing is this themore often I figure out I'm
wrong, the more likely I am tobe right.
But if I hang on to my ideaslike they're my children, I'm
going to protect them againstall comers, even when a new idea
would be better.
I'm going to start out now.
(02:15):
When you talk about beliefs topeople, you really go to the
heart of their matter, becausepeople's beliefs define how they
feel about themselves.
But I'm not talking aboutbeliefs so much as believing
ideas.
Now let me explain what I'msaying.
I was in court it was 1990, Idon't know five or six,
(02:40):
something like that and I had atrial six, something like that
and I had a trial and a guy wasbeing it was a jury trial and a
guy was being accused ofstalking this other guy.
So the guy that the defendant Icall him Mr Smith.
Mr Smith did not have anattorney.
Mr Smith told me he didn'tbelieve he needed an attorney.
(03:03):
Told me he didn't believe heneeded an attorney and Mr Smith
was arrogant.
Mr Smith used to go into myclerk's office and file
paperwork that was inappropriateand when they wouldn't take it
he would always say wait till myfather gets a hold of you.
So anyway, we're at trial andthe first part of any trial is
(03:24):
called voir dire, where you askpeople questions, your potential
jurors questions to see if theymight see if they're going to
be good, fair jurors, and youcan always excuse ones that you
don't think are going to be.
That way you can have that.
So the prosecutor got up KimSegelbroth, I'll never forget it
and he asked all of hisquestions, trying to determine
(03:47):
who he wanted on the jury.
Then the defendant got up andsaid do you all believe in Jesus
Christ?
And it just so happened I had apanel full of Christians.
I had a really actuallywonderful conservative Jewish
population that I just loved,but they were wonderful people,
(04:07):
but none of them happened to bethere that day.
So everybody raised their handand my man, mr Smith, said as
long as you believe in me, Iain't got any problem with any
of you, and sat down.
So everything stopped.
The potential jurors and thejurors all went out.
I had to bring everybody up Athis person can.
This person understands theproceedings, he understands the
(04:50):
potential penalties and he alsounderstands who and what all the
people in the courtroom to do,what the prosecutor's job is,
what his job is, what my job is.
And then I ask him well, whatare you going to do?
What are you going to say?
You know, to determine whetheror not in specifics, but
determine whether or not he hada handle on things and he could
(05:10):
participate meaningfully in hisdefense.
Based on the conversation thatthe three of us had me, him and
the prosecutor he was competentto stand trial, so I had to let
the trial go forward.
Now, interestingly enough, youknow how when you on jury duty
and you don't get picked, yourun home.
Every single solitary potentialjuror that wasn't picked came
(05:34):
right back around and sat in mycourtroom, because that was
fascinating.
Boyfriend Mr Smith got up andtold the jury ah, not only am I
Jesus, I'm also Adam in theGarden of Eden Forgot the
garden's name Isn't that awful.
And that man the one that he wasaccused of harassing tried to
(05:57):
rape Eve.
So that man said that the guyhe was with sexually misused Eve
.
So there you go, and the trialwent forward and afterwards the
jury asked me how could you letthat happen?
And I said here's why Neitheryou nor I can factually
(06:20):
establish Mr Smith was not Jesus.
That's his belief system and we, you know, we can't get in
there and do that.
He has to be able to understandthe facts and the situation and
the proceedings and that issufficient.
You have to make sure heunderstood the ideas.
(06:41):
You didn't have to agree withhis beliefs, and that's what I
am very adamant about, becausein this day and age of social
media, it is quite easy forpeople to tell you things just
ain't true.
People get on Now.
I personally believe a platformand opinion does not an expert
(07:03):
make now, and that I personallybelieve also that that applies
to me.
I don't think you shouldbelieve anything I say unless
you test it out first.
Look for the logic in it anddon't just look at that.
Look for people, conversations,that say I'm wrong.
You can't know I'm right unlessyou know I'm not wrong, and you
(07:27):
have to.
You have to do that.
I have problems with theauthority People.
If you have a degree, let mestart all over again.
If you have a degree, a PhD inastrophysics, I'm going to
believe what you tell me aboutthe stars.
Believe what you tell me aboutthe stars.
(07:49):
Now, if you have a degree innothing and you want to tell me
about men and women and marriageand who's doing what to whom,
you got to lay out some reasonsfor me to believe you and what
people often do.
When they don't have it backedup by and yes, I know my shirt
and my thing don't match If youdon't have it backed up by and
yes, I know my shirt and mything don't match If you don't
have it backed up by degrees orbooks or anything like that,
(08:10):
what you do is you try to find.
You try to find.
You try to sound, unlike me,extraordinarily authoritative.
Men are always women.
Are this that you're not?
When you truly understandsomething, it is very, very
difficult to be unequivocalabout it.
(08:31):
I would never say all men thisor all women that or this is how
to be married to Eric mightdrive another man to distraction
, and the extent to which wewant to buy ideas wholesale and
(08:54):
in bulk, it can be problematic.
This is what I like to dobefore I believe something and
I'm not talking about religiousbeliefs, I'm not.
Mr Smith is allowed to be MrSmith, but I like it.
I don't like listening to peoplewho never say I don't know.
(09:14):
You ever watch a lot of peopleand come and say I don't know,
what is that, I don't understand.
And I was talking about adegree in astrophysics and it
was like everybody knows NeildeGrasse Tyson and he was
sitting there talking tosomebody once and they were, and
in the middle of it the guysaid something and Neil said I
don't know what that is.
(09:35):
When you're confident that youknow what you're talking about,
you can readily say I don't knowwhat that is, you know.
And I also don't like to takeadvice or information from
people who don't own their bias.
Ain't nobody on this world, onthis earth, not biased in some
way, shape or form?
(09:55):
You were born in a certaincommunity, at a certain time,
with certain people, and certainthings are common to you, they
are normal to you.
Some things disgust you and ifyou go into one culture from
another culture, from anotherculture, that which is innately
disgusting, that any human beingwouldn't be able to tolerate,
(10:18):
is always different.
Some countries it's an outrageif a woman eats fish within
certain amount of time of herhusband's death.
I mean, there's just so manydifferent things.
You can't go into a Catholicchurch and act like a Baptist.
Priests don't want you toholler hey, yes, preach.
(10:38):
Now you go to a black church.
They get mad at you if youdon't say something.
You, sitting there, quiet, likeyou in a Catholic church Rev,
will say something to you.
Y'all not hearing me today.
Can I get an amen?
I mean, it is a conversationbetween the congregation and the
minister, but what isappropriate in one place is not
(11:02):
appropriate in another place.
So you got to make sure you knowhow what you've been through
breaks up the light you shine oneverything else.
If you've had three reallyhorrible women in a row who got
(11:26):
pregnant and back to the fold,or if you had three horrible men
in a row that did the exactsame thing, you're going to
start saying women are, men are.
And my response to that is theones you picked were the ones
around you were or the ones youlike were.
Sometimes you have to dateagainst type, if the type of
guys that you date or the typeof women you date are causing
(11:47):
you pain.
But anyway, I've gotten offtrack.
I was talking about people Itend to believe.
I tend to believe people whoopen with their week.
You see what I'm saying thebiases that they have.
Everybody is biased, I'm biased, and I had to work through my
biases actively every day,especially being a judge.
(12:10):
And I remember when I was ajudge in Ohio and they had a,
they wanted somebody to createthe judicial curriculum.
You know, because we have tohave a continuing education
component, and I said I would doit if I could include a class
on.
It wasn't emotionalintelligence, because that term
wasn't out anymore, butunderstanding bias and your own
(12:31):
prejudice.
You know, and I was going toopen up each class, how many of
you in here are prejudiced?
And I know, and I was going toopen up each class, how many of
you in here are prejudiced.
And I was going to say andnobody would have raised their
hand.
And I said y'all wrong.
Let me tell you why.
Everybody has a perspective.
Personally, I like to call itlean.
I wrote a book called DearSonali and I was struggling.
(12:53):
Struggling to write it becauseto give advice in bulk can be
very, very dangerous, becauseall anything my mother told me,
she told my sister the opposite,because we were opposite people
.
You know she was trying to pullmy sister in the house, she was
trying to push me out.
All of your all people aredifferent.
(13:15):
So categorical advice, it makesme nervous.
So what I did in that book is Ispent a chapter talking about my
perspective, which I call alean.
And I call it a lean becauseperspective seems like a fixed
point in time.
You know it's my perspective.
I'm standing on this boulder,on this mountain and I'm seeing
(13:38):
these things.
A lean is something that issubject to change.
I can lean over here until somefacts come up and I can lean
back this way.
But I also have to tell youwhat's wrong with my emotional
house.
I tend to be worried andanxious.
You must take that into accountwhen you take advice from me.
(14:00):
I tend to lean a little dark.
You know I see catastrophe alot.
I adjust for these all the time, but I don't think I do it
perfectly.
So I tell people I lead with myweek a little bit so you can
interpret what I'm saying, andthen, in an effort to have a
(14:23):
conversation with women I didnot know I asked them to start
creating their second set ofeyes and, if you recall, a
second set of eyes is a conceptmy mother had, my mother's rules
.
I considered her an emotionalgenius and she always taught me
that a part of you always has tostep away from yourself and
(14:43):
watch yourself like you'resomebody else, because when you
are in a situation, you are soimmersed in your own emotions
and your own discomfort or yourown joy or whatever your own
emotions and your own discomfortor your own joy or whatever you
really can't accurately seeunless you practice always being
able to step away from yourselfand use your second set of eyes
(15:06):
I'm being beleaguered by aGerman shepherd, I apologize
your second set of eyes so theycould know who they are a little
better and when you know whoyou are, I mean, and not just
what you do well, but what youdon't do well.
I always say people want to puttheir best foot forward, and
(15:27):
that's fine, but I like to focuson the one that's dragging
behind, because that's thesucker that's going to trip you
up should you have to break outinto a run.
I mean, that's just what thatis.
So I'd like people to know that.
I'd like to know that peoplehave the ability to say I don't
know.
I like to know that people knowthat they are biased in some
(15:49):
way shape or form.
I'm biased by my upbringing.
What I think a marriage shouldbe is determined in part about
how my parents' marriage was andhow my husband's marriage was.
So you know I have to sharethat so everybody can see the
patina of whatever I've wentthrough, have the patina of
(16:10):
whatever I went through.
You know colors, what I see andwhat I do.
Another thing I found importantto keep me on the straight and
narrow is never conclude toosoon.
You get a little piece ofinformation here.
You get a little piece ofinformation there.
Somebody puts a thread throughit and makes you feel like it's
(16:31):
true.
I remember when they did had uh, and any theory you put
together you can string.
So you can string it together.
It's a possibility.
We tell stories all the time.
So if you get a little bit ofthis, a little bit of that and
like, like seeds of informationand then you plant it in the
soil of of your, of your past,of your understanding, of your
(16:57):
biases, of your feelings of ofyour past, of your understanding
of your biases, of yourfeelings of your personality is
going to grow.
But it don't grow, but itdoesn't mean that that's what it
is.
If you conclude too soon, thenyou put your mind in a little
bitty box and it is imperviousto, or at least resists new
(17:21):
information because you've cometo a conclusion and we get very,
very, very attached to theconclusions to which we come.
You can watch on TV and I don'tcare what side you're on or
anything.
Watch on TV and I don't carewhat side you're on or anything.
If people, you talk to somebodyabout politics or somebody, and
they'll base their opinion onsomething they just know to be
(17:44):
true.
You can show that it's not trueand they never say I got to
reconsider.
They move on because they'veattached their very being and
how they feel about themselvesto how right they are about that
idea.
And it's hard to let go becauseyou've functioned, you've made
(18:04):
decisions all in accordance withthat idea and to say that idea
is now wrong.
You have to dismantle all ofthat stuff.
You did, all that stuff youbelieved, and people don't want
to do that.
It's not easy, it's verydifficult.
One of my mother's rules is toput a period on things.
In other words, when you learnsomething new or you realize you
(18:27):
were wrong about something, notonly do you have to say hi, I
was wrong, but it helps to alsosay, okay, what have I done
based on that wrong idea?
Or what other ideas have Icreated based on this bad idea,
and I got to dismantle them.
(18:48):
Now People, people, peopledon't do that, you just.
Well, that wasn't right, andthey don't realize how often
they use that thought or thatbelief.
Then again, don't believe yourpeople.
I listen to my people all thetime, but I don't just believe
them because they have the samelimitations that I do.
As far as well, that's notnecessarily true.
(19:11):
We're all very, very different,we all.
But the more alike people are,the more their perspectives are
the same and the more theirbiases are likely to be the same
.
And so you can.
The zombies were taken overeverywhere except this one
country, and they prepped for itand they got through it and
(19:49):
they were there.
And he said how did you guysfigure this out?
Why didn't you make themistakes everybody else made?
He said because we have a 10thman.
Nine men all agree that X ishappening.
The 10th man always has tovehemently and vigorously
support the other side.
(20:10):
It allows your ideas to gethoned and corrected.
It allows your ideas to getpolished by the facts and the
feelings and the informationthat is not available within a
limited silo of beliefs.
You know, that's number one.
Number two, that's not numberone.
(20:32):
I don't know.
I say that sometimes it justisn't true.
But anyway, just becausesomebody is good at one thing
doesn't mean you need to believethem about all things we tend
to get it's.
You know what part of theproblem is.
You know, as nature often does,we want low energy and high
(20:52):
entropy.
You know what I mean.
Just, you don't want to.
You don't want to.
That's not true.
But I take that entropystatement back.
It's hard to deal with a wholelot of detail and nuance, it is
hard to function if you don'thave a set of ideas and beliefs
(21:14):
that allow you not to wonder andget confused and get all.
And so what we do is we try to,we settle on something and
that's it, because it keeps usfrom having to fight with all
the new information and all ofthat and you have some comfort.
You can predict things when youhave a belief system like that,
(21:37):
but it's always be willing totest your beliefs and always be,
and never just take it from onegroup.
For instance, I used to havethis three book rule.
First of all, I get tied up intopics Like I got tied up in
World War.
I Like why did it happen?
(21:59):
I know about Archduke Ferdinandand all of that kind of stuff,
but why did the entire world goto war over that?
And it takes a lot of history.
You know you go through it, butI had to read at least three
different books on it, fromthree different sources, from
three different directions, andI ended up reading more than
three because it just fascinatedme.
(22:21):
But if there's like aphilosophical, you know, a
belief system or books orsomething about something, I
will read one book from thisside, one book from that side
and then at least one book thatcontends that they are down the
middle or just being factual.
And between at least thosethree I have a fighting chance
(22:44):
of pulling out the pertinentinformation that is correct and
I will make fewer errors in myunderstanding than I otherwise
would if I committed to aposition too soon.
Do you know what I mean.
Worriers, people like me who areanxious.
We commit to a position ofcatastrophe too soon.
(23:06):
The minute I can't findsomething, I've decided that
I've lost it forever.
The minute I can't, you know,don't jump to the wrong
conclusion, and your emotions,your feelings, your feelings of
fear, your feelings ofinsecurity, your feelings of
whatever, will often inform thatmy worry pushes me to negative
(23:30):
conclusions.
So I have to know in real time.
I've got 30% more negative onthis than there should be.
I got to take it off.
I got to take it off becauseyou have to know who you are and
how.
Who you are, as I said, bendsthe light that you shine on the
new things that you see.
(23:51):
Don't buy your ideas in bulkeither.
Just because someone's rightabout A, they don't mean they're
right about B, c or D,especially if B, c and D are not
within their wheelhouse.
You know, and then you have todo some extra special emotional
work to sift through what socialmedia can do.
(24:16):
For instance, every once in awhile I have to adjust my
algorithm, because it starts tofeed you what you were
interested in for a while andthen, once it does that, it
limits everything.
You see a whole lot in this onearea and you don't see things
in other areas.
And then I I intentionallyfollow people that I do not
(24:36):
believe, that I think are wrongon the other side of whatever.
So I can always I don't feellike.
So I understand why they feelthe way that they do, because
that's the only way that you canget people to change their mind
.
You can't get people to changetheir mind by simply saying to
them hey, you're wrong, and thisis why you have to say how do
(24:58):
you feel about that?
Well, why do you feel that way?
What would you like to happen?
And you start where they areand you slowly walk them home.
Keeps them from fighting you upfront, keeps you.
And if you know how people,what people are really afraid of
, or what people really love, orwhat people really want, you
might be able to give them whatthey need, while they're able to
(25:20):
give you what they need, whilethey're able to give you what
you need, because the need thatthey need satisfied may not be
the one that they're holleringabout.
You know what I mean Peoplegetting out on road, rage and
doing this and that they're notupset that upset with that.
But something else went on.
Something else went on and thensome people are just road
raging.
That could be true as well, butyou know, I'm scared.
(25:42):
I don't know about you, but theother social media thing that
frightens me is what I call thewell-sandwiched lie.
Now I'm going to turn my screenover here.
I'm a low-tech chick trying todo a high-tech thing.
Well, wait a minute, Let me tryto do it first before I turn
(26:03):
that over there, because I don'tknow what I'm doing.
It's the most remarkable thingI have seen, not the most
remarkable thing I have seen.
I tend to engage in hyperbole.
That's another thing you oughtto know about me, especially
when it comes to me messing up.
I tend to be, I tend to be.
I just, I just tend to be.
I just think that stuff ishilarious.
(26:24):
But anyway, I want to turn yourattention to Lord.
Have mercy Now.
I want you to see this and I'mgoing to turn my camera over.
I hope this turns out all right, okay.
YouTube premium is ad, freeYouTube and exclusive access to
all things.
Now they did this site calledBlack Hollywood Legends.
(26:46):
Now, first of all, the onlypart they got right is that I'm
Black, I'm not Hollywood and I'mnot a legend.
Be that as it may Be, that asit may, they did a little piece
on me, like 17 minutes talkingabout where I went to school,
all of that, and they were rightabout all of it.
That's where I used to work,all of that, all of those things
(27:08):
were true.
Where I worked, the books Iwrote, they had a picture of the
people that I wrote books with.
But at nine minutes and 18seconds they decide.
They decide to just make somestuff up.
They say I own a mansion on theScioto River which they call
(27:31):
the Sciota Sciota Look at thatwith lime green chairs and
frills and flowers and frillsand flowers.
They do a five minuteexamination of a home, talking
about what I had in it and whyit was there and why I picked it
.
Then they'd said I had anapartment in Atlanta, really
(27:53):
nice apartment, but I don't.
And then they go back to mycharitable work and all of that.
Most of that is accurate, butfor some reason they decided to
give a detailed five to sevenminute lie for no reason, about
who I am, what I do and where Igo.
I'm not an important person.
(28:14):
That lie doesn't matter, butit's demonstrative of the
problem.
You know, if you, if you theability to package and to
sandwich things inside thepackage, a lie inside a truth is
, is, is, is is very real.
And if you know some of thethings that you see there are
(28:36):
true, you're going to tend tobelieve that the rest of them is
true.
And that happens a lot.
And now the dogs are coming, sothat means I got to go soon.
But here let me say this to youthe whole point of this, the
whole point of this thing, is becareful who you believe, and
don't believe too strong toolong until you've you've you've
(28:58):
really assessed it.
And when you do believe, alwaysbe willing to put it under a
big, bright light of what now DoI have new information that
does not, that doesn't complywith what I always thought.
My favorite tolerism on this isonly go steady with your ideas,
never marry them, because thatway, when a new and a better one
(29:21):
shows up, you can switchwithout doing a whole lot of
emotional paperwork.
Alimony on bad ideas whoo.
But anyhow, y'all have a goodday and remember under your skin
is sovereign country.
Don't go handing out passportsall willy-nilly to people who
don't belong there.
You're in charge, you feel, notanybody else.
(29:43):
Don't act a fool, though.
Just be cool.
Y'all have a great day.
Popular Podcasts
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com