Episode 297: What Makes a Women’s Wellness Clinic Truly Transformational? A Deep Dive with Dr. Jennifer Gelfand, DPT

Episode Transcript
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Christa Gurka (she/her) (00:00):
Hey there everyone.
Welcome back to another episodeof the Female Empowered Podcast.
I'm your host, Christa Gurka asalways, and I have a guest
today.
I am really excited to have Dr.
Jen with us.
Dr.
Jen who is the founder and CEOof Root to Rise Physical
Therapy.
And Pelvic health.

Jennifer Gelfand (She/Her (00:19):
Yeah.

I would love for you to introduce
yourself.
Tell us a little bit about whoyou are and how Roots to Rise
came to be.

Thank you so much for having me here
today.
I am so happy to be on the

I'm excited too.

Jennifer Gelfand (She/Her) (00:31):
I am a doctor of physical therapy.
I'm a pelvic floor specialist, ayoga instructor.
I dabble in a little bit of barteaching, so I love teaching
intentional movement.
I would say, before I introducehow Eyes came to be, I would say
that how I got into PelvicHealth is a, it's a good story
and I actually had a patientTuesday ask me, I was about to

(00:55):
do our treatment and she justlike out of the blue, asked me,
when you got into Pelvic Health,did you know you were gonna
start a business I knew I wascoming on the podcast with you
actually in a couple days, and Iwas like, that was timely.
But it was so easy for me to sayno way.
Like I had no idea that startinga business would be a
possibility, something I coulddo, like any of that.

(01:16):
But when I think about why I gotinto pelvic health, I think it's
really a very similar thing thatkind of got me starting a
business.
I don't know, do you mind if Ishare a

I'd love to hear people's origin
stories.
Absolutely.

I started thinking about pelvic
health because I had my ownpelvic floor, pelvic health
journey.
It wasn't exactly pelvic floor,but it was a women's health
condition.
I was diagnosed in my earlytwenties with PCOS, polycystic
ovarian syndrome, and I'm not inmy twenties anymore.
And it was quite a while ago,and they didn't really know a
lot about At the time.

(01:48):
but I was trying to get offbirth control and so it had been
years I had been on it and Iwasn't able to get my period
back.
And so I went to my doctor andthey were just like, just wait.
then I'd go back to my doctorand they'd just be like, just
wait.
finally I went to a doctor whowas like, okay, we'll run some
tests.
So they ran some tests and I gota voicemail on a Friday that

(02:08):
told me that I had polycysticovarian syndrome that I should
probably just Google it.
Basically the the treatmentwould be to go back on birth
control and that some people arehelped by losing weight.
In my early twenties, I was arunner.
I was really lean, that piece ofadvice wasn't helpful.
And going back on birth controlwasn't really what I was going

(02:28):
for because I was really tryingto figure out my health journey.
Eventually I wanted to be aparent.
All of that.
I really felt lost.
and I was, I spiraled for awhile and then I found a group
in California that specializedin polycystic ovarian syndrome.
once I found them, I was atravel physical therapist at the
time, by the time I found them.

(02:49):
And it was a whole group ofpeople all with different
specialties, all spending allday, every day on that
condition.
And so while obviously theydidn't cure it, I found, I felt
seen, I felt cared for.
I felt like these people werewilling to help me.
At the time, there wasn't a lotof research.
They asked me to be a part ofthe research.

(03:09):
But that story really got methinking about my own career.
And I loved supporting peoplein, getting back to the things
they love to do and havingshoulder pain and knee pain and
foot pain and all those things.
But I started realizing I reallywanted to dive into something
that.
Could be that life changing andWith a more intimate sort of
just like very more complexperhaps in some ways setting.

(03:31):
And so I was like, I heard aboutthis pelvic floor thing and, but
when I was in PT school, Iactually, when I first got
there, didn't even know therewas a pelvic which is mind
blowing to think about.
We learn all parts of the bodyand they just like skim right
over that part.

Christa Gurka (she/her (03:45):
totally.

But it got me really a lot more
curious than I ever had been.
I started taking courses andlike really seeking out mentors
and things like that.
And then it just all made senseand then I like fell back in
love with PC and and especiallyas I started integrating yoga
and being a yoga teacher andmovement teacher, bringing those
things together made so muchsense.

(04:07):
And then when I was trying to dothat in my regular jobs, so we
moved to Maine once I gotpregnant and I was just working
regular job PT jobs, but they'rereally fast paced in network.
One of the places I was at, Iremember trying to get a yoga
mat on the floor just to getpatients to get on the floor and
do some yoga and it just wasn'tthe kind of floor you really
wanted to get on, it just,

I hear that

It didn't work the way that I felt
like in my heart it could have.
And when I had so many patientsat once, I couldn't call their
therapist.
Talk to their personal trainer.
And so it just got really, itreally draining.
one day I was taking a yogaclass in a studio that I was
teaching at, and I just had thisvision.
I was like, what if I did thishere?

(04:51):
And so I was like, okay.
And I like, was friendly withthe owner.
And so we ended up having a sixhour conversation and we figured
out that I was gonna starttreating patients in the
changing room.

Oh my gosh.
I love it.

so I brought in a plastic tub and a
massage table and my pillow andmy lubricant and like all of my
equipment into this changingroom behind the front desk of
this yoga studio.
And I basically just paid themfor when I saw a patient in
there.
And I would see patients inthere in between basically
people changing, like somepeople would come in and they'd
is anyone in here?
Can I change?
And I'd step out.

You make it work.

Yeah.
And so my major plan there wasthat I was gonna just treat
patients in there when I could.
And then I worked at the nursinghome for extra money'cause we
still needed to pay the bills.
And I was like, okay, this isgood.
This is better than what I wasdoing before.
And then it was five monthsbefore the pandemic.
And so thankfully at the time Ididn't have a lot of overhead.
But I did have to burn the shipson the nursing home because of

(05:48):
the pandemic.
Have support, like childcaresupport and be working in the
nursing home.
so I decided to just all in andI just never really looked back.
I got really busy pretty quicklyand.
Didn't have any boundariesbecause I was in this whole
like, survival mode,

Yeah.

Jennifer Gelfand (She/He (06:07):
making it work.
And so I treated patients allthe time myself and never really
put any systems together.
And it was like Sunday night ateight o'clock and I was treating
a patient, that kind of thing.
And it started to get to thepoint where I realized, I was
like, need to get some help.
I can't do this all myself.
So that's

you gotta put some guardrails up.

yeah.

Yeah.

So that's when it evolved and I
started looking for support.
And I was lucky enough that afriend of mine who's also an
acupuncturist was home onmaternity leave.
So she jumped in and helped mewith some backend things and we
brainstormed together and thenshe started treating patients.
And so then it was the two ofus.
And then I brought in my firstpt, and that was probably like a

(06:49):
year in.

Okay.
But you, are you outta thechanging room at this point?

I'm out of the changing room.

Okay.

I guess I could you on that story.
Yeah.
So we got outta the changingroom, but actually when I first,
my first PT that I hired, theoriginal plan was for us to take
turns in there

Yeah

the studio had since moved to
another location.
I actually got to rent one,treatment room full-time.
And so we did take turns inthere, but at the same time I
opened the first clinic in SoCo.
so by the time I had my firstpt, we had a standalone place
that was ours.

So exciting.
And so was this after 2020 orlike in the middle of 2020?

yeah, it was a little bit after 2020,
like maybe, so it was May 21,22, 23, 24.
Yeah.
So it was May of 2021,

Okay.

I believe is when we started
getting into the Saco clinic.
And once Daisy started with me,she was our first pt.

Yeah.
And then how long until youopened your second location in
Scarborough?

So that was actually, so we kept
the yoga studio treatment room.
And so we had these twolocations basically pretty close
to the, since the beginning.
Us would be up in that treatmentroom and the rest of us would be
in the SoCo clinic.
And then eventually, about twoand a half years ago, we
realized we had so many, so muchneed in Portland.

(08:12):
'cause that studio was inPortland, that I was gonna start
to look for another space.
And that's when we foundScarborough.

Got it.
Got it.
So it transpired from like thecleaning room, the changing room
into the, yeah.
I think that, thank you forsharing your story by the way,
and I'm sorry to hear aboutyour, your PCOS diagnosis and
then the what transpired.
Unfortunately, I think a lot ofwomen experience this and
whether it's PCOS, whether it's,I actually.

(08:42):
Crazy aside, but I was listeningto a podcast that's called The
Retrievals.
I don't know if you've listenedto this podcast.
That's like about themretrieving eggs and the person,
it's like crazy.
So if anyone hasn't listened toit, I'm just gonna tell you like
it's about egg retrieval womenthat are having infertility and
there was a nurse at the clinicthat was changing out the

(09:05):
fentanyl that was supposed to bethe painkiller and putting
saline in it'cause she was afentanyl addict.
And the women kept tellingpeople, I feel everything.
I feel everything.
And nobody believed them.
And it's a crazy it's just atestament to sometimes when
women.
Explain their symptoms andpeople dismiss us from pain with

(09:30):
sex.
Oh, just have a glass of wine orPCO here's my symptoms.
Oh, you just have to lose weightor Google what you have to do.
Or, I am literally feeling theneedle that you are putting into
my uterus and then telling methat's impossible.
You can't do it.
So it's a testament, I thinklike a larger scale thing of
what happens to women globally.

(09:52):
And you and I happen to be whitewomen, the prevalence that this
happens to women of color isfive times to eight times the
amount that it happens to

Yeah.

women.
So if people like you and I getdismissed, imagine like a woman
of color.
That doesn't have a voice.
I think too, when you have, youfind a passion of something, so
thank you so much for sharingyour story.
And I also think sometimes it'sthe same thing with starting a
business.
Like most people, most of thewomen in the inner circle, if
you asked all of them I say thesame thing I'm an accidental

(10:23):
entrepreneur.
I had no desire to open mybusiness.
I didn't know that was a thing.
And so most of us are accidentalentrepreneurs, which is also
sometimes why we have noboundaries and guardrails.

Jennifer Gelfand (She/ (10:36):
exactly.

So now we're at what gosh, four years
since everything came tofruition.
So tell us what your day-to-daylooks like now.
So what is the setup?
You have two locations.
Do you still have that, likethird one where you have okay,
so give us a rundown of whereeverything is, how many people
are working for you.
Also a little bit about yourRoute to Rise Studio, so you

(10:58):
have some wellness component toit also.

Yeah.
So actually when we started ourScarborough clinic was when we
actually had the opportunity tohave a studio space because we
had this extra room.
But just to give you an idea ofwhat the practice looks like
now.
So we still have the SoCoClinic.
There's three treatment roomsthere.
Our Scarborough Clinic has fourtreatment rooms and the studio
space.
And then we have a clinic that'sa satellite space up in a birth

(11:22):
center about 50 minutes north ofour Scarborough clinic.

Okay.

So we're up there one day a week.
And actually just a really coolside note with that is that we
just trade.
Our, the mid, the midwives thatare up in the birth center come
down and go into one of myprovider's treatment rooms and
they see their

Great.

there on Fridays, and then we see our
patients up in the birthcenters.
So it just helps us be a littlebit more access accessible, To
people up north, more north.
But it also, we love it becauseit changes a little bit that
standardization of care becauseone of the big things that we
believe so much is that pelvicfloor therapy should be standard
of care for pregnant andpostpartum people.

(12:01):
In addition.
So many other subsets of ourhealthcare as well, but that it
should be normalized.
And so we actually see every oneof their clients for a session
through

Love it.

and then, they can stay on with us.
So that's been a reallywonderful partnership that
really speaks to our missionquite a bit.

It.
How many people do you have inyour team now?

So I have three full-time physical
therapists one occupationaltherapist

Okay,

Jennifer Gelfand (12:26):
acupuncturists that

nice.

me, and then I have two soon to be
three admins.

Love it.
So it's grown.
So with growing pains obviouslycome, they're called growing.
Pains for a reason.
Since most of the audience, thelisteners are business owner or
maybe aspiring business owners,what are some of the growing
pains that you have experiencedwhile growing to this size to

(12:55):
where you are today?

Yeah.
Starting a little bit from thebeginning.
I just think back to when I usedto write my leads on a no
notebook.
And I didn't know they werecalled leads, so I just wrote
people who wanted to come see meon a notebook.
And then of course I had tofigure out, who to cross off and
all of that.
So I would say in the very, bemore towards the beginning just
building out systems that werebetter than my notebook and
Google docs.
So especially once having, a fewother providers on board with me

(13:18):
really needed to figure outlike, I can't use my cell phone
anymore and, we need to have aplace to really be tracking our
patients and all of that in amore sort of professional space.
So that big growing pains wasjust investing in, EMR system

Yeah.
Technology.

Jennifer Gelfand (Sh (13:35):
Technology getting out of Google.
I still use Google Workspace,but I used to manually make all
of the superbills on a GoogleDoc.

Yeah.

Just that was a big sort of first
step because all I knew when Iwent into this was that I was
gonna make it work Figure itout, and I didn't really have
all of the other parts lined up.
and so I would say those are thegrowing pains in the beginning
and then the growing pains endup being about once you have
your team, at least for me,about figuring out how to

(14:04):
actually be a leader.

Yeah.

I never was a manager of, or a
supervisor at any of the clinicsI worked at.
And love people so much inrelationships and building that
with patients, but it's such adifferent skillset and journey
with people that join you and onthe journey with you Of your
team.
And so I think it's definitelystill an evolution for me.

(14:27):
But with every phase of growth,I've learned so much in figuring
out how to communicate andstructure, positions and have
those conversations with peopleand just develop and really
nurture the team and being theone that's responsible for the
team culture and

Yeah.

all of those parts.
Such a learning curve.
And that's why having mentorshipand support can be so helpful.
Because I think that at leastfor somebody like me, and I
think a lot of us that go intothis work, we are empathetic, we
really

Of course.

about people, and then we build this
thing that's our baby, then welove it so much.
We want everyone to love it asmuch and be happy, and I think
my, one of my big, learning,adventures that I'm on right now
is learning that I can't alwaysmake everyone happy and that, a
different dynamic when you'rethe owner, when you're the boss
than when you're just, whenyou're on the team Role and,

(15:24):
being okay with that andlearning to grow with that and
celebrate that is something thatis a journey for me every day.

Every phase of business ownership,
especially when you decide, togrow beyond yourself, which at
some point that is a decisionfor everyone because.
We all could stay ourselves, butthat is a little limiting in the
fact that if we don't work, thenwe don't make money.
So when people decide to growbeyond themselves, I think we
don't realize that now there's amanagement component to it and

(15:53):
there's, there is a differencebetween being a manager when
it's not your business either.
So here's the other part.
So yes, it's a totally differentset of skills, totally different
set of skills to manage peopledoing the work versus just doing
the work, right?
But then it's a different set ofskills when you're the owner,
because the thought process thatwe have sometimes is as a

(16:16):
manager who's getting paid tomanage people.
Like it's not our risknecessarily, right?
It's not the risk of thatmanager, but for the owners, the
management, and if someonefails, the thought process in
our head is that's taking moneyliterally out of the food, off
of our table.
So if someone's failing or ifsomeone leaves or is not
performing, or it literally,it's le more than just like not

(16:38):
doing a job.
It's our, in our head, it's likethey're literally taking food
outta my kids' mouth or they'retaking money outta my kids'
college fund.
And so it's a whole differentset of things.
And most of us, I'm gonna make apretty general stereotype, but
most of us, especially as womenthat are high achievers that
open our own business, most ofus are perfectionists.

(17:01):
We got to this.
Place for a reason.
We were probably like top of ourclass in PT school.
We learn the thing, we did thework, we get the good grades.
And that's not always howbusiness runs.
And so it's really hard'causewe're people pleasers?
We are sometimes, yes, we'revery feeling based people
obviously what we got into for areason.

(17:22):
But we're also people pe, peoplepleasers.
We're perfectionists mostlybecause we don't want other
people to see us fail.
And so there's all these thingswrapped up into us having those
difficult conversations withpeople.
And I think I say that's theheavy weight that most of us
feel.
Even though we wanna point tothe, oh, I'm seeing too many

(17:43):
patients, or I have too much onmy plate, or I have to teach
this class or whatever.
We wanna point to the binarythings.
But the truth is being people'semotional, go-to person.
Is huge and it care.
It's weighs a lot.
It weighs a lot.
Yeah.

And

And it's really hard.

and it's something that like also is
such a special part of what'sevolved to be my role.

Yeah.

I, I think about it and I'm like, I
never knew I wanted a businessthen I never knew I wanted a
team.
But then when I was just workingby myself, I love working
alongside other people and Ilove like having a group effort
towards a strong mission and allof those things.
And so having the team thenbecomes like my favorite thing.
But it also can become like thething that I'm like definitely
having to like grow with themost

I think that's a really good thing that
you just said though.
Sometimes we get so in theminutiae and we're like, oh my
God, everyone's doing this tome.
Woe is me and I'm there.
I say it because I'm like, Iknow what that feels like.
But for you to sit and remember.
No, I love having a team.
I love the collaboration.
I love working with otherpeople.
It's good to remember this iswhy we did it.

(18:55):
And we do have the power.
To control the controllable.
We can control, we can'tcontrol, and I've said this in
the group lots of times, I say,we are not responsible for
another adult's emotionalreaction, but we are responsible
for how we communicate things,right?
How we articulate ourexpectations, how we have the

(19:18):
conversations that might bedifficult or not fun to have,
but if you choose not to havethem, you're just choosing a
different hard path because nothaving the conversations creates
a different hard path as well.
I appreciate you sharing that.
What are some of the things thathave happened to you that you

(19:40):
never even, if I would've toldyou five years ago, this is
where you'd be like what aresome of those things that you
never even imagined wouldhappen?

Like challenges

No.
Like surprise benefits.
I.

Oh gosh.
I mean it's, if I close my eyesand I think back to five years
ago, everything that I'm doingfeels like I can't believe it in
so many ways.

You were literally in a changing
room, so like now you have threelocations.

Yeah.
So to answer that honestly, Ireally could give you any of
those examples, whether it'sjust conversations with people
in the community and having themsay I've heard such wonderful
things about your practice.
Or, going by somebody in thewaiting room and being like,
wow, that person is impacted bywhat we're doing.
And I have never even met themmyself.
Like

Okay.

idea that we've gotten to this place
that really feels bigger than meis something that also is very
surprising to me when I actuallysit with that.
Those are just like, that's justa general feeling more than
anything.
But I would also say that onething with working with you and
like a big sort of shift for meboth from a comfort zone,

(20:43):
comfort level, and also justgrowth, is really looking at
numbers.
And I think when I went into thebusiness, the practice, all I
wanted to do and I think part ofit was because the pandemic,
right?
Like I was calculating out that,oh my gosh, I have to pay.
If I just have$700 a month, Ican pay my expenses.

Yeah.

And it felt like wanted to protect
that and it was like somethingvery important in that way.
And I think I went for a reallylong time just being like, okay,
there's enough in the checkingaccount.
I can pay people we're doing,okay enough.
And never really had the maybecourage to, I.
I don't really know how toanalyze this.
I don't

Yeah.

how to like, and I don't know that I
like, have what it takes tolike, put myself in the seat to
analyze it and to look at it.
And one of the things that'sjust been so invaluable is just
having you to be like, look atthis, look what you're doing.
Look at these numbers actually.
And I think that has reallyhelped me grow because a whole
nother level of thinking aboutimpact and like what we can do

(21:42):
and like what we've alreadydone, which I think

Yeah.
Your numbers are spectacular youcould possibly cross the seven
figure mark this year.
We've talked about that it's apossibility, which is in four
years, being able to do that isincredible.
Like amazing.
Less than 4% of businesses evercross a seven figure mark, and
2% of those businesses are ownedby women, less than 2%.

(22:08):
It's amazing.
So it's great.
It's so great.
And, but you're also, you areopen to feedback, which is
important.
Like you're open to coaching andyou're open to learning.
Like none of us listen, couldyou imagine if you came outta
high school or college andyou're like, I'm gonna be a
pelvic health pt, I just thinkI'm gonna do it.
And you walked into a clinic andyou're like, I'm here.

(22:29):
No, we went through two you guysas doctors went for longer than
I did, but three years of likefull-time school.
And then we get into businessand we're just like.
Oh, I should know this.
No, we have to.
We can learn it.
It's it.
It's not, but there issomething, and I had this too,

(22:49):
like being afraid to ask forhelp or being afraid to say, I
don't know that.
'cause they'd be like whatbusiness do you have?
Again, it's from that judgmentof other people versus being
like, okay, I don't know theanswer to this.
I can figure it out.
Let me learn it.
You're a smart individual.
You can make it work.
And also learning to then hirefor the things you don't wanna

(23:12):
do.
I don't believe, and I say thisto all of you ladies too, like
we shouldn't abdicate completelyour responsibility.
We shouldn't abdicate ournumbers.
We should be able to look at ourbooks and understand them.
But it doesn't mean we have todo the bookkeeping.
It doesn't mean we have toreconcile the QuickBooks.

Right.
I love your phrase.
Feelings are not facts

Feelings are not facts.
I.

I do love to, like I didn't have
coaching in the first like yearor so, and I think that is for
me was really good because Ifeel like it helped me to like
trust, to have some trust

Yeah.

in like me and what I needed and
like to be able to receivefeedback well and then to have
the coaching once trying to likelike muddle through it and then
to be like, feelings aren'tfacts.
Feelings are valid, but thefacts are actually what helps my
feelings.
Now I know

Yeah.

silly, but

but it's true.

There have been times where I've felt
like so anxious about, X, Y, andZ and potentially with numbers.
And then you'd be like, okay,let's look at the numbers.
And then when I actually broughtmyself there, even though I was
like resisting it, I was like,oh, okay, okay.

Yeah

so they go together.
But I

they do.

phrase because I think it's really
powerful and it's just is a goodreminder when I start floating
in the other direction again,that okay, come back, look at
your numbers and it'll bebetter.

Yeah.
I al it's like I could say toyou like, I'm feeling that I
have a feeling that you're madat me for something.
And you could be like, really,I'm not mad at you at all.
I don't, where would you getthat?
And I could have just misreadlike an eye roll.
Like you literally could havehad something in your eye.
And so again, feelings are notfacts.
I could feel that you're upsetwith me, but you're not upset

(24:56):
with me.
So that's actually not a fact,right?
And so we have feelings all thetime, and you're right, feelings
are valid.
And when somebody says, I don'tfeel like I could make this
decision right now in thebusiness, I.
Sometimes I'll push back alittle bit to say like, why are
you feeling that way?
And there are times where peopleare just like, it's too much.
Okay, great.

(25:17):
It's too much.
You don't wanna raise yourprices right now.
I understand you're doing a lotof other things.
Great.
What's one thing you can stomachthat will move the needle in
your business?
And everyone's different.
All of us are different.
Your business should be what youwant for you and your life and
your future of your family,right?
And it doesn't have to be,nobody else should be able to

(25:38):
come in and tell you what to do.
They should, I like to presentyou with the options.
And then based on how I know youand all those things say, I know
you're telling me you want this,but based on what you've told me
before, I'm not sure that's isthat really what you want now?
Because we all get distractedwith new fun projects or, oh,

(26:00):
maybe.
And I'm like, I think you'rejust distracting yourself by not
focusing on this.

Yeah.
Perspective from, somebody who'sin it with you but isn't you is
so helpful and so important.
So yeah, that's

Yeah.

like a big piece

I love it.
I think that I'm, I was superexcited to work with, you and
your business.
And so talk to me a little bitabout like the other, so you
have acupuncture, you have yourtraditional, like pelvic health
direct service.
You also do some, like wellnessstuff in terms of like yoga and
things like that.
What's that offshoot like inyour business?

So it started just from the
beginning with me as a yogateacher already.
So I was integrating pelvichealth and yoga sessions
together from the beginning.
So that could look like whetherwe're integrating breath work,
mindfulness.
A lot of times like with pelvichealth we might do like a little
yoga sequence before getting uponto the table to do some manual
therapy to try to help with thenervous system, things like

(26:58):
that.
But primarily I was reallypassionate about bringing those
intentional movement typepractices to therapy and vice
versa, because it really helpsto change the paradigm too.
'cause I felt like in themedical model with physical
therapy specifically, it waslike people were coming to you
because something was wrong,something was broken, and we had
to fix it.

(27:18):
And there's this sort of justlike doctor's office.
going on.
And so I like to really think oflike how much we can optimize
and think about what ourpotential is.
And also think about the factthat maybe there's not something
broken, but we just need to liketap into these ways that we can
communicate with our body.
And yoga, while it doesn'tresonate with everyone, and a

(27:39):
lot of times in pelvic health,if someone's I hate yoga, I'll
just be like, that's fine.
We'll just breathe and stretchand we won't do any yoga.
That's fine.
But it just pairs so well.
And so that being said, it'sdoing that in a group setting is
also really therapeutic andhealing.
And so it just made sense.
I love the idea of creating acommunity and so that we can
support our patients.

(28:00):
Through all different modalitiesand so they can, experience some
of that healing together.
And so once we started havingthe studio space, we started
offering group classes.
So yoga for core and pelvicfloor, lots of perinatal
classes, so prenatal yogapostpartum baby and me yoga
support groups.
We have a fertility supportgroup.

(28:21):
We have postpartum supportgroups.
We might start another type ofsupport group for hypermobility.
Different sort of subsets ofpeople's needs where they might
feel

Yeah.

and

Like lactation and stuff like that.
Yeah.
I, to me, there was nothing morelonely than breastfeeding.
Every, not everyone has thatexperience, but it was really
hard for me.
Some people like are great andeasy for me, but I, I just think
and I think it's, again, I thinkit's a thing with women that
everyone's just oh, it'snatural.
It should be natural.
And then if it doesn't feelnatural to you, you feel like

(28:54):
something's wrong with you andyou're like, what's wrong with
me?
I'm a terrible mom.
I wasn't meant to do this.
And it's all this like crazystuff.
So I love that you have that,all those, and just being able
to talk about it.

Yeah.
And it also allows for a littlebit more accessibility for
people to receive some of ourservices and our care and our
information without needing todo the, in like the one-on-one
sessions, if

Yeah.

that isn't fitting for them.
So it allows us to reallysupport the community in lots of
different ways.
We bring other practitioners,people in the community in, we
had a nurse practitioner a fewmonths ago come in and talk
about perimenopause andmenopause.
We have other providers doingsome different groups in our
space.
Then we do provide ournetworking events.
So that's really,

Oh, cool.

that's really rewarding.
It's one of those

Yeah,

Think that'll be fun.
And it is fun and it helps, withawareness and things.
But what comes out of it is justlike that deep connection back
to our why.
'cause we're all there beinglike, oh my gosh, we love this
work so much.
And how we can support eachother.
And some of my providers willcome with me and it really
refuels us.
It's fun to be able

I love it.

in your own space.

Yeah, that's really great.
Are you seeing, I'm curious forthis, are you seeing more women
go.
Doulas midwife versus liketraditional childbirth?
Or do you think it what's, how'sthat playing out in the real
world these days?

Yeah.
It's, I don't have hard numbers.
Speaking of numbers and

Yeah, more like in your practice, are
you seeing oh, this is more thanI used to see?
Does it tend to be certain typesof women and families?
What are you seeing just in thereal world in your practice?

Yeah.
I would say from the experiencethat I had just moving to Maine,
I didn't know what a do, like Ididn't know what a doula or a
midwife was when I came here,which still blows my mind with
how many people I work with thatare them or are working with
them.
So I do think just in generalthe awareness around that being
an option, working with outsideof the traditional sort of OB
GYN Is.
People are now like, oh, let mechoose between.

(30:52):
Versus I think that at least myoldest is 11, so at least like
10 or so years ago, that wasvery much less.
I would say just anecdotallythat, and then I would say we
have a really strong presence ofmidwifery care and doula work,
doula providers here in Maine.
And so it's quite common thatpeople will go that route.

(31:14):
We have some midwives that arecertified nurse midwives and
work

Oh,

And so that's a nice mid middle
place if you don't wanna have ahome birth or be in a birth
center, but you also don'tnecessarily wanna go all the way
to the ob.

it.
Yep.

But we have great practices here
that are OB GYN practices and Ithink.
just in the years of root torise, there's so much more, not
just because of us, but in thoseyears, they're so much more open
to different birthing positions,going to pelvic floor therapy
during pregnancy.
We still hear the stories ofpeople that go to their doctor

(31:48):
and they say, oh, just wait tillyou have your babies or wait
until it's bad enough.
It's not bad enough yet.
Or, and they just normalize

Yeah.

And my why originally was, my own
PCOS journey, but then of coursethey had my own kiddos and then
I hear these stories too.
And so that just fuels it evenmore.
But I would say really they arebecoming more aware of options
they should be recommending topatients.
Main Med is the big hospitalhere and of people say really
great things about theirexperience there.

(32:17):
So we just really support itall.

That's great.
What are some things that youthink physicians should be
referring patients to?
Pelvic health prenatally likethat instead of saying, just
wait.
What are some conditions that,that maybe women could be
hearing this and say, oh, Ishould speak up if this is what
I'm feeling.

Yes.
Number one, I would say, andthis might just be, this is the
bubble, the world I live in, butis that if you're pregnant, you
should go.

Okay.

I really do because the thing is
that you can get a baseline evenif you're feeling really great.
I always think of the smallerthe mountain to climb, the
faster you're gonna get down itprobably on the other side.
And

It's true.

we're going in and,'cause a lot of the
work that we do in pre, inpelvic floor therapy in general,
but certainly definitely inpregnancy is like really
building foundations of likebreath and.
management and posture andmovement patterns and balancing
strength and mobility and all ofthose things so that we can,
prepare for delivery and havemore optimal postpartum

(33:22):
recovery.
But even if you're feelinggreat, the body's changing so
much that it's, you can build alot of that foundation before
you have symptoms.
Or maybe you won't have thembecause you built that.
but I would say that it ispretty common and normal to have
leaking, right?
Sneezing, coughing, and jumping,running, whatever you're doing,

(33:42):
if there's leaking or urgency orfrequency, a lot of times the
doctors will just be like yeah,you have a baby sitting on your
bladder.
If there is leaking, even ifit's a little, sometimes
patients will say, I don't leakjust a little when I sneeze.
And so then we're like that'sleaking.
It's

Yeah.

it's a little,

I.

It's telling us a story about the
system.
And so if we can listen to thatstory and say there's something
that needs some work and somebalance, then, ideally it
doesn't necessarily get worse.
And it's so fun when we'reworking with people that are
pregnant and their symptoms inpregnancy and then we're like,
they're like, oh, I didn't eventhink it would get better till

(34:18):
after the baby.
And they're getting, growingmore pregnant and then they're
leaking is going away, right?

Yeah.

is better and then they can go into
their delivery with, a systemthat's certainly more ready for
taking on that challenge aswell.
Pain pressure heaviness that canfeel really normal.
'cause obviously there's moreweight from the baby.

Yeah.
I don't think women reallyunderstand what that means,

Yeah.

I don't think they're like, what does
that mean?
Pressure?
Does, is there a descriptionthat people that like the
difference between this isnormal pressure.
'cause Yes.
As you get further along intoyour pregnancy, obviously things
are gonna just, especiallydepending on where the
babysitting and whether they'rebreach or not, whatever, but is
there like a feeling that peopledescribe to you when you're

(35:06):
talking about this is the kindof pressure we're talking about.

yeah.
Yes.
There's a few different wayspeople describe it.
So sometimes people just say, itjust feels like something's in
that space, so like in thevaginal space or something's in
the way, or like a tampon islike partially falling out.
That kind of feeling.
Some people will describe aslike a fullness, which is hard
sometimes to discern if it'sjust the weight of baby, but.

(35:31):
We really shouldn't be walkingaround with a whole lot of that.

Okay.

ways we can alleviate that.
At least getting it.
I think if you're having thatfullness or that, that feeling
like something's in that space,it's worth getting

Check that.
Yeah.

Jennifer Gelfand (She/H (35:43):
Because even if it's not what we might
be looking for, and I candescribe that to you, that would
be helpful too.
It still can be helpful to learnhow to offload and to manage
pressure, even if it's not that.
It could be something like aprolapse or,

It's not a, a danger sign, but it is
happening.
And so like, how can we makethis feel better now?
And I do think, I've gonethrough two pregnancies and I
don't think my OB GYN talked tome anything about that

yeah,

ever.
I don't remember asking them,asking me any of those questions

Exactly.

ever.

Exactly.
And then, I had a c-section formy second child and they knew
what I did for work, but no oneever said anything about doing a
c-section scar massage or,

Yeah.

anything like that.
And

My doctor I think I've said this on
the show before, but my doctor,who also knows what I do for a
living, told me that myincontinence post baby was due
because I was very light-skinnedand my collagen is not as taught
as other cultures.

Oh my goodness.

Yeah.

And it's so interesting, like the
things that our doctors willsay,

Like with this.
Yeah.
I was like,

that language stays with us.
Like I

for sure.

who outside of like the lens of
pregnancy, she was young and shewent to a chiropractor who told
her never to bend backwardsanymore because she had a back.
Pain back injury.
So she went through up untilshe's 45 now.
We were out for a walk and she'syeah, I just don't bend my back
because my, and it's like in herhead since she was in her late
teens and

Our language is very.
How we say things aspractitioners, even us as
practitioners.
You know when, how many peoplehave you heard when someone's
oh, your glutes not firing.
So I have patients come in allthe time and they're like, yeah,
my glutes not firing.
I'm like, if your glute wasn'tfiring, you'd be paralyzed.
You'd be on the ground, youwouldn't be able to walk.
Let's be real.
So our language is reallyimportant.

(37:35):
And I totally agree and I thinkthat's good to know.
I never thought about it thatway.
If you're pregnant, maybe justgo get an assessment.
Yeah.
Just go get, when you'repregnant, they tell you to go to
the dentist more like they tellyou, like all different.
And you don't,

yeah.

so that you know that's a good, just go
get an assessment.

Yeah, exactly.
And then also you just don'thave to be in pain.
Like even back

Yeah.

is not, you don't have to be
walking around with back painjust'cause you're pregnant.
There's so many things that wecan do to support it.
And it just becomes normalizedand then it's

Yeah.

Jennifer Gelfand (S (38:05):
postpartum.
But

I.

I think it's just one of those
things to just, a lot of times,if the doctors would, they don't
have to give the answers.
They don't have to say this ishow you do it.
'cause they're not necessarilytrained

Correct.

retrain people.
However, they just need to say,there are people out there who
can help support you in this,

yeah.
And I think what's different forprenatal patients is like most
and again, this is, I, let'sjust put a caveat, like this is
a very, this is stereotype and ageneralization.
I know not everyone's like this,so don't come at me if you're a
doctor and you've never this isnot how you practice.
We recognize there are somepeople out there, but a lot of
times when doctors, they'retrained to my patient has a

(38:42):
problem, let me give'em asolution, right?
And so oftentimes if like I haveback pain, then they're like,
oh, take this medicine whenyou're pregnant, most of the
time, unless it's something veryurgent, they're not gonna
prescribe medication to you.
And if they do, even some womenare like, I don't wanna take
medication while I'm pregnant.
So that's where you get to thatthing of.

(39:03):
And suck it up.
Like they can't tell you todrink alcohol.
They can't tell you to have somecannabis so you can relax.
They can't tell you to do allthis other stuff and that.
So then their answer is justsuck it up versus saying, you
know what, here's a referral toa pelvic health practitioner.
They could probably give yousome strategies to work through
this.
You don't have to be in pain.

Yeah.
Yeah,

Yeah,

And I,

be so great.

to be fair too I think a lot of the
physical, all us physicaltherapists are trained a lot of
times that like, if it's this dothat.

Right.

I think that being in public
health has really challenged mein a good way.
I think that's what kind of mademe love being a physical
therapist again, was that Icould be really creative because
it takes so many different,there's so many systems and it
takes a whole village a lot oftimes, right?
And and every person'sstrategies are gonna be unique
and different.
And so we can't we can't just belike, okay, this is the thing,

(39:58):
or it's nothing.
And so that's where thecollaboration and like the sort
of the mission of our practiceis so much that we are gonna
reach out to your other medicalWe're going to work together
with your therapist, we're goingto talk to each other about how
you're doing, so that it's notjust do these five exercises and
then that's all I got for

yeah.
Yeah.
So that kind of leads me toanother question, like what
makes Root to rise different?

one of the ways we're different is
that we have multipledisciplines under the same, not
only under the same roof, butlike within the same practice.
So I think the fact that you cancome and see your acupuncturist,

I.

is also your pelvic floor
therapist, and then maybe youhave your, the person who's your
yoga teacher and then you know,you don't have to play
telephone.
Telling everyone what everyoneelse is doing.
Like we get together and we talkabout it, and we figure out
what's gonna make the mostsense.
So it's that real sense of fullsupport.

Yeah.

that is a huge thing that makes us
different.
The other part that makes usdifferent is that we're never
going to just say, that's allI've got for you.
So speaking of that, like if weget to a place where we've
worked on, we've tried all thethings, we've brainstormed all
the ways we'll be honest aboutthat.
And then help our patients findwhat might be their next, thing
that's gonna move the needle.

(41:13):
And just not give up on peopleand like really just be a
resource for them through theirlifespan.
Not always

Oh, good.

in the middle of, active treatment,
but that they know that likewe're always there for them
that, we're a trusted resourceand that we care.

That's a huge benefit.
That's a huge difference, and Ithink that's definitely
something that you lean into andI think that, your messaging and
your branding speaks to that alot, but that, when people say
things like I'm sure pricebecomes an objection sometimes
for people, but you're not justgetting like that service.
You're getting literally someonewalking beside you through this

(41:49):
journey, which can be confusingto some pe like sometimes.
Pretty straightforward.
You're good to go.
But to have a resource, be ableto have connections and contacts
and it's almost similar to theway that I feel like with my
mentorship programs.
Like I don't have all theanswers.
I don't pretend to, but I dohave a network of people that
I'm like, you need a website.
Here's three people I wouldrecommend.

(42:10):
I vetted all of them.
Here you can go, you need abookkeeper.
Here's my referrals forbookkeepers.
They're really great.
Here's who you should go to.
Do you need advice on investing?
Here's a person that I know likeit.
It's having a network so youdon't have to feel so lost with
everything.
And that's super valuable.

It's so helpful.
Even just as a person in yourprogram, it's so much less
overwhelming to have thattrusted resource who's gonna
then be like that triage alittle bit and to be able to do
that.
Especially'cause so many of ourpatients are, they've had
chronic pain for a really long

Yeah.

or they've had, no answers for a
really long time.
And so it's just somethingthat's really important for us,
that people feel really safewith us.
And I think that has been one ofthe, as I've grown, because I
can ensure that in me,

Yeah.

if I'm the one in front of the
patient every time or, but to beable to really instill that in
my team A lot of time investing.
with them and really makingsure, like they all know who the
best, therapist to referpatients to.
Like they all know, whatresources are available and that
like what we would do with apatient case that maybe wasn't
going as expected.

(43:15):
And I think having thatconsistency across the team is
hard and good and important,

yeah, I think you've grown an incredible
practice.

Thank you.

I feel super, super great and I'm
excited to see what the next sixmonths of the year brings for
you.
If I could ask you maybe, I meanyou did talk about how the
numbers has really helped, likehaving you deep dive in the
numbers and getting a littlesupport on that.
Is there something else that youfeel was really invaluable to

(43:47):
you in terms of like joining thementorship program and maybe
something that you didn't expectthat you would get out of it a
year ago when you joined?

Oh my gosh, yes.
Yeah.
And by the way, the numberssupport was not just a little
bit of support.
That has been really impactfulfor me.
But I would say, so I had somecoaching early on that was part
of a big group.
And while that was, maybe theright thing for me at the time,
I think one of the reallyspecial things about the Inner
Circle truly is that it's notjust like a title, like the,

(44:17):
there's this really warm,welcoming space that you hold
and you hold it reallyauthentically.

Oh, thank you.

If we have a coaching call day, and
I'm like, maybe on the verge oftears, like I don't have to feel
like, oh gosh, like I have toshow up as this.
I can just show up as me and noquestion is a dumb question.
And you just approach it withsuch like an empathetic.
From an empathetic space aswell.
And I think that then allows atleast me to feel really safe in

(44:46):
it.

Thank you.
That makes me so happy.
Thank you.

during this time of growth, it's the
beginning growth is exciting andthere's a lot of pieces to put
in like the puzzle.
You have to figure out all thelogistics.
But the growth, it's actuallylike the really, like deep stuff
is the

Yeah.

at least for me, that has come up
later.
And that just having you hasbeen just such a big part of
getting, I don't wanna saygetting through that, but like
evolving through it,

thank you.
It's hard.
It's one of those things whereif that's what we, I have found
anyways, and going through thismyself personally, like if I
sold that at the beginning,people wouldn't buy into that
'cause they don't see it.
It would be like, have you everhad a patient that their body

(45:32):
language is like that?
Their nervous system is just onlike this, and they're like, I
don't, but they're talking likethis.
And they're like no, I'm supercalm and they can't.
See it and you're trying to tellthem that what they need is like
nervous system.
You have to get them therebefore they can understand it.
And so even though you're asuper, you're super intelligent,

(45:54):
you're very empathic.
I understand you also believe inlike authenticity and safe
space.
It's not that, it's just likesometimes when we're in it, it's
like numbers, systems, things.
And then it's like we have tobe, we have to become a
different person as our businessis growing and that's where the
real magic happens.

(46:15):
For sure.
But

Yeah.

it's hard to get there.

Jennifer Gelfand (Sh (46:18):
Definitely I

Yeah.

I agree.
And I'm so grateful for you andfor this

Oh, I'm so happy you're in the program.
I do remember, I, so we had thisconversation almost.
This time last year because thisis when you joined the program
and initially you were like,Ooh, maybe I'll just wait till
January.
'cause we do our July andJanuary cohort and I was like,
you can do what?
What you choose.
I don't want you to feelpressured.
I will tell you though, that ifyou start now, by the time

(46:44):
January rolls around and you'reready to like, you'll kick off
2026 feeling in a much morestable place.
So how do you feel after decide?
'cause initially we're like,I'll just wait.
So how do you feel afterdeciding to jump in last July
versus waiting until January

Oh my gosh.
It was the best decision.
I think I, I can absolutely saythat what you said would happen
is happening and did happen.
As I'm going into this, quarter,what, where are we?
Almost quarter

quarter?
Yeah.
No, we're at the end of quartertwo.
We're wrapping up.
We're starting quarter three.

Yes.
Gosh, time flies.

I know.
So fast.
I.

but I would say absolutely so glad
that I started when I did.
I also think that a big part ofwhat I was feeling when I was
delaying it was I was feelingscattered.
Like I wouldn't be able to jumpin and really hit the ground
running and do it right and doit well.
And I remember you saidsomething like, you can totally
come in a hot mess.
And then I was thinking

Yeah.

will I get the most out of it if I
did that?
And I think I got more out of itbecause I did come in then that
I didn't come in like January1st to my pencil like ready to
go, like student that I justkinda started when I did.
And it really did give me arunway.
And also set the tone for justmy recovering perfectionism that
like I can just be where I'm atand you are willing and fully

(48:01):
capable of holding space for me.
Then I didn't need to be likeready,

Yeah, I think that's a really good
objection.
Not an objection, but like amyth buster.
'cause I think one of thethings, even in pt, like I'm
telling you, like this all goesside to side, right?
You might get people that arelike, oh, I can't commit to it
right now.
Like I just, I, it's too, I havetoo much on my plate.
I have two kids, I have this.
Or like people come into theprogram too and they're like,

(48:27):
oh, I don't know.
This isn't a good time for mybusiness.
I don't, I think the thoughtprocess, so like in your head,
were you thinking, I.
I'm wondering if I, was it thatyou were wondering if the
program would work for youbecause you might not be able to
fully commit?
Was that what you were worriedabout or were you worried if I
spend the money and it doesn'twork for me, like what was

(48:47):
coming up for you at that time?
Do you remember?

I think

Yeah,

it was definitely a combination
because I remember talking to myfriend who was.
Going, the head was about tostart.
And I remember thinking about,oh my gosh, that's a lot of
money.
'cause it was definitely morethan I had

it is.

Per month for sure.
And so I was like, I'll be in a,maybe a better financial
position So that definitelycrossed my mind.
But I think that like, when Ireally think of what my
resistance was, it was reallymore will I actually go to the
coaching calls?

Yeah.

if I have like too much to do and
it's late at night and I need tosleep?
And just knowing myself, like

Yeah.

want probably just to take on too
much.

And what happened?

I,

it and

I did it and it was great.

it was fine.

So

Yeah,

good.
And

it was good.

yeah.
So I'm really glad I did and I'ma year here and I'm still going,
so I'm, yeah.

I wanted to pull up this
spreadsheet that I had?
Okay.
You made this presentation,

we were in Atlanta.

January to April of 2025 versus January
to April of 2024, your revenuewas up 58%

Yeah.

and we started working together in July
of 2024.

Yep.

Okay.
Your profit margin was up 70%from January to April of 2024.
Your visits were up 62%.

Yeah.

and this is metrics that you
presented, right?
So there, and so when you lookat, we started working together
in July of 2024.
Get having that kind of, andthis isn't even looking at what
Q4 was for you of last year, butjust having that runway that you
could hit.
January off and you did anextra, and by the way, when

(50:36):
we're talking about like 58%,that's almost$200,000 for you.

Yeah.

and

team

profit

lot since then too, so

it did, your team grew, which meant that
you had, but you also then hadthe bandwidth to grow the team,
to train the team, to put theguardrails up for your team.
And you've had some hiringchallenges, some staffing
challenges, a lot in the last,like I know a lot and I get it,

(51:05):
but I also think that you arenot that you, you came in super
strong to the program, likereally strong.
And that's why I was like, Iknow that you're going to, I
wasn't trying to fit a squarepeg into round hole.
I was like, I know you're gonnado great.
I know you are.
I also know that because you,because these staffing

(51:26):
challenges happened when theydid, even though they suck and
they were hard and I know howhard they were for you, I think
you were in a such a betterplace to be able to handle it
and not like wither, even thoughit was really hard.
'cause I even felt bad.
I was like, oh my God, notagain.

to you, and you're like, not, no,
not again.

I was like, no, not again.
But the, because the problemsdon't go away.
I think that's the difference.
I think people think, oh, I dothis program and now I no.
Like they don't go the same waywith our patients.
I didn't miraculously make yourdisc better.
Like you, it's still gonna bethere, but now you have the
tools and you become much betterequipped to handle the
situation.
Yeah.

(52:07):
We just get better.

your PT business.
Analogies are

I think as we can understand it from
that way.
'cause we're the ones giving ourpatient that advice.
And I'm like, it's the samething just in business.
So people can be like, oh yeah,that's true.
That's true.
Let's tell everyone where theycan find you.
You know what, we had one of ourother businesses in the program
actually got a client fromlistening to this podcast.
So maybe you'll get someclients.

(52:32):
So say, let us know, let's know,like from your brick and mortar,
like what are your handles, yoursocial media and your website,
where can people go to look foryou?

So our website is root to rise
physical therapy.com.
Our handle on Instagram is atRoot to Rise pt.
Our Facebook handle is actuallyat root to rise Pelvic Health.
So that one's

Okay.

a

We'll link everything in the show
notes.
And then you have an a studioInstagram too for like your
wellness class side,

that one is at Route to Rise Studio

I love it.

our studio is located in
Scarborough, Maine.

Yeah, and you're in Maine.
Love it.
So if anyone's vacationing inMaine over the summer, they
should check it out, althoughit's already the end of July,
but this actually, this episodeairs like less than a week from
when we're recording it, so it'salready gonna be out.
We'll link all of that up in theshow notes.
I thank you so much, Jen, fortaking the time to chat with us

(53:27):
and share your story.
I literally, really cannot waitto see what the end of the year
holds for you, and we might getthat extra comma in your top
line revenue.
I'm very excited for you.

Thank you so much, Christa, for having
me.
I'm so

Thanks.

Thanks.

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