Ep 3: Moms At Work - Redefining Workplace Equality

In this episode of #FEMPIRE, we’re joined by Allison Venditti, founder of Moms at Work, a game-changing community on a mission to reshape workplace equality for mothers. Allison shares the inspiring story of how she grew Moms at Work from a small Facebook group of 400 followers to a powerhouse community of over 30,000 advocates pushing for real policy change. We dive into the motherhood penalty vs. the fatherhood bonus, pay equity, and explore how feminist nepotism can reshape workplace culture. Allison also discusses her journey behind building a company by women, for women, and how they’re driving the conversation toward more inclusive workplaces and policies. Get ready for a conversation packed with passion, purpose, and powerful insights on how we can create workplaces that work for moms.

Episode Transcript

Julia Pennella (00:06):
Hello everybody, welcome to #FEMPIRE.
I'm so excited to have theamazing Alison Venditti today.
She is the founder of Moms atWork, one of the largest
networks of working moms.
Alison has been in the careerspace and HR space for over 15
years and is passionate aboutbringing women's issues to life.

(00:28):
So, alison, I want to welcomeyou to Hashtag Vampire.
Thanks so much for being here.
Thank you for having me.
So I think I just want to, youknow, kick off, as we're talking
about moms and motherhood andchildren.
The other day I was scrolling on, you know, social media
Instagram and came across thispost about Taylor Swift and I'm

(00:51):
curious to get a bit of yourperspective on it.
So this headline came up and itwas Taylor Swift's status as a
role model for girls isquestioned because she's
unmarried and childless.
I found out this was an opinionpiece written by an American
writer by the name of JohnMcGillian for Newsweek Magazine.
There's a lot of layers thatpiss me off about seeing that
post, but what really upset meis how women are still still
today, being diminished to justbaby makers.

(01:13):
You know we're not looking atthe bigger context of talking
about her role as abusinesswoman and how her tour
generated over $4.1 billion inrevenue for her brand alone, and
that's not factoring in themega surplus she's helped
generate for local economies forevery city she's touring.

Allison Venditti (01:32):
What are your thoughts?
It's a dude tearing down asuccessful woman.
So I'm like it's you know, assad as it is, I'm like we're
used to it.
I'm like nobody who's a TaylorSwift fan, nobody who's like you
know, 50% of the world is women.
I'm like nobody thinks that.
So some dude named John thinksthat.
And I was like at what pointdid we stop caring about what
John thinks?

Julia Pennella (01:51):
How do you think the societal expectations of
marriage and motherhood impactwomen's roles when it comes to
leadership or role models?

Allison Venditti (01:59):
Yeah, and I think that we know this and like
work wasn't made for women andwork really wasn't made for
mothers.
It wasn't designed for that.
The way that we work now isdesigned really in like the 50s
and 60s, when we had these likenuclear family households and
nothing's changed.
So the majority of CEOs arewhite men with stay-at-home
wives, so not just white men,but married men who have

(02:23):
children and have stay-at-homewives.
So this is the pinnacle ofsuccess and it hasn't changed.
So the issue that you know wetalk about a lot is A.
I am fully on board with womenchoosing not to have children.
That is absolutely like you do.
That I think that's great.
I'm like I, I chose to havechildren.

(02:43):
But the motherhood penalty isreal.
So the wage gap is not reallymen versus women.
It's actually women withoutchildren versus women with
children.
So the motherhood penalty makesup a large portion of the wage
gap yeah, and I think that'salso.

Julia Pennella (02:58):
I came across the article similarly.
It didn't dawn on me.
I'm, you know, a young woman,still pursuing my career, but
thinking about, you know,disadvantages when a woman does
go on that math leave and youknow someone might take in you
know that contract role, they'reout of the industry for that
period of time.
I'm climbing up that corporateladder while that mom is, you
know, at home caring for herfamily and then coming back into

(03:19):
the workforce.
I can definitely see how thatbecomes both an economic impact,
a career challenge for a lot ofwomen to just jump back in
Through your organization.
How do you help women come backinto these spaces when they're
coming off of mat leave or maybeeven just in that transition
while they're going throughtheir pregnancy?
So I think it's twofold.

Allison Venditti (03:37):
So one is that , like, when we talk about the
motherhood penalty, we tend toignore the other portion of it,
which is the fatherhood bonus.
So women have children they'reseeing as less committed to
their jobs.
They're seeing that you'rejudged whether you stay home
with your kids or whether you goto work.
Again, it's really that, like,people see a woman with children
and they think, oh well, shedoesn't want to work as hard,
she doesn't want to, she doesn'twant to be here.
So there's a lot of assumptionsmade, whereas when men have

(03:59):
children it's the opposite.
It so they're more likely to bepromoted to leadership roles,
they're paid more, they're seenas more stable, they're seen as
the ideal worker.
So the fatherhood bonus thenadds on to the motherhood
penalty where, like, men areclimbing higher and you're
climbing lower.
The strange thing about themotherhood penalty is that it
across every country.
So we you would have thoughtthat, like you know, sweden

(04:21):
would have taken care of that.
You know they're pretty good ontheir policies.
Nope, still exists.
But the economic issues thatplay.
So women have less money whenthey retire, they're more at
risk of going bankrupt.
There's so many issues aroundbeing paid less that have
knock-on effects.
So the things that Moms at Worktries to do are twofold.
One, we are one of the leadingorganizations championing

(04:44):
legislation for pay transparency.
It's not okay that you have twopeople in the same job and one
person making $30,000 more.
It's just not okay on anything.
My background is I started inunions where everybody knows
that everybody makes, and when Imoved into corporate they
didn't want us to talk about itat all and I remember it was
written to contracts that you'renot allowed to talk about your
salary.

(05:04):
I'm like the only person thathurts is women.
Yeah, the only person who'sthat's hurting is because we're
underpaying women.
So Canada is very lucky.
We have a new pay equitycommissioner, federally.
So banks, telecommunications,airlines, whatever it's not
based on complaints.
So most pay equity is made likeyou have to make a complaint
against your employer, which Idon't know about you, but I'm

(05:26):
not keen to make a complaintagainst my employer about my pay
.
This one requires employers tobe proactive and what's
happening is that they're beingforced to rate correct,
sometimes on average, like 20%.
So they're looking at it andbeing like, hey, actually,
whoops, we're paying women,specifically women of color,
less we should probably.

(05:46):
Now we have to fix that and I'mlike so those are huge things.
So, legislatively, moms at Workworks around pay transparency.
We do a ton of free trainingaround return to work and your
rights.
So we know that more people arelaid off while they're on leave
.
It's a little bit of out ofsight, out of mind, but it's
like not okay, and most of whatwe do is like education.

(06:11):
So, in addition to advocacy, welike people to know their
rights, know what they'reentitled to, know what they can
ask, what they can't ask, thingslike that, that we get a lot of
feedback from our members onthe things that they want and
then we go on and do them forthem.
I think that's amazing.

Julia Pennella (06:21):
I think you mentioned a few pieces there.
Transparency is huge.
I'm a huge advocate, I'm amillennial.
I'm always asking people whatare you making More for my
knowledge, not even just in myworkplace, but also more broadly
amongst my friends, just to seewhere we're at, because I think
we've been so conditioned andtold well, don't talk about
money.
And really, like you said youlaid it out it disadvantages

(06:43):
women because I don't know, I'mdoing the same work as my male
colleague and they're making 10,20 grand more than me.
Where's the justification inthat?
What motivated you to startMoms at Work and how, would you
say it's grown since itsinception?

Allison Venditti (06:59):
So it wasn't like I was 22 and like I decided
that I want to run anorganization called Moms at Work
Work, and if you had told 22year old me that I was running
this, I would have called you aninsane person.
Like, I went to school for art,history and history but I
quickly realized that, like me,being able to translate your
menu into Latin wasn't going tobe a secure job.
I did a certificate in HR,health and safety specifically,

(07:22):
so my area of expertise isactually in like needs
management.
So pregnancy and parental leave, short term, long term workers
compensation.
In Canada, pregnancy andparental leave are actually
quite complicated.
So they're protected under theEmployment Standards Act.
They're protected under humanrights.
So your right to breastfeed,your right to work without

(07:43):
discrimination.
And then, layered on top ofthat, is like internal policies
and internal programs, such asshort term or long term
disability that are privatelyrun.
So there's a lot of legislativepieces and there's a lot of
private pieces, and so I spentthe first part of my career
building those programs for bigcompanies.
So like Coke, lowe's, aramark,canada, the US Like the US.

(08:05):
Every state is like its owncountry.
So like understanding thelegislation there.
Same thing in Canada, quebecversus BC, it's like night and
day.
So when I got injured which youknow like we can talk about
after then I was told that I wasunemployable, so it forced me
to have to, like my only optionwas to work for myself, and I

(08:29):
needed something very, very parttime because I wasn't able to
work very much.
And so I started doing somecoaching, which I'd done
corporately, but my focus was onworking with women, and the
only clients I had were moms,because I was a mom.
So it was just a whole bunch ofpeople and I said you know what
?
You really actually don't needme, you need each other.
So the one thing that womendesperately lack is networks,
like professional networks,because you're busy, you've got

(08:50):
kids, you're going to dosomething else, and what people
don't realize is that they don'tjust want to stay in their
industry.
So a lot of people, by the timeyou're like 35, 40, you're like
, okay, cool, I've been doingthis for 20 years, do I want to
keep doing this?
And if the answer is no, it'slike well, then how do I jump?

(09:10):
And the answer is always who doyou know?
And if you've only ever been ateacher, you're going to know
teachers, but nobody else.
So that's where Moms at Worksprung.
I was working one-on-one withpeople and I started a Facebook
group.
I was like cool, they didn'thave many names left.
So I was like I'm calling themoms at work and like, instantly
, people are like I hate thename.
I'm like, well, that's too bad.
So we got, so it was a freeFacebook group for a while and

(09:31):
what happened?
It happened organically People.
People knew me and they knewmoms at work, and so then it
became stupid for me to use anyother name, because that's what
people knew us by.
What happened was I launched areally small program that I
called the Insider, so it waslike 60 women and I said let's
see if this works.
I called it like feministnepotism, right, I'm like, oh,
let's like, let's get in there.

(09:51):
And I was like let's open doorsfor each other.
And it was so lovely andbeautiful and I started in it in
October and COVID hit in March.
So this is 2020 then yeah, so Istill hadn't registered moms at
work.
It was just this kind of like,let me float this around and see
.
And what happened during COVIDwas I had two choices.

(10:13):
I was at home with my kids andthis is the thing that, like,
people didn't realize.
I was like when your husbandmakes twice as much money as you
, there's no choice as to whoyou're giving up.
So I had a part-timeself-employed job and my husband
worked full-time, with benefitsand whatever.
We're protecting his job right.
So lots of women left theworkforce the whole she-session

(10:34):
term and I was like but when youset women up and they're paid
less, have less security, ofcourse that's going to happen.
But what I couldn't stand wasthat this happened and as an HR
person, I said they're going tolay off women.
They're going to lay off womenwith kids and nobody's going to
come and save them.
Yeah, and I said to my husbandI was like I don't think I can

(10:57):
let that happen.
Not everybody has the amount offace, but I'm willing to work
evenings.
I lost all my corporate clients, everything shut down, nobody's
career coaching.
The only thing I had was thatgroup of 60 women and a Facebook
group, and at that time theFacebook group had like 400
people in it maybe, but I'dknown these women long enough
that I said no one's coming tosave us.
We need to work together.

(11:18):
And so Deb Hudson, who's anemployment lawyer, susan
Cruikshank, who's a taxspecialist she was live feeding
as the benefits were being readout.
She was like here's what theymean.
This is what it's going to do.
Deb was on there.
She was like whatever you do,don't quit.
We just said I need to figurethis out.
And I said who can get me intothe feds?

(11:39):
Somebody, get me someone on thephone feds.
I'm like we need to shorten EIbecause if women are pregnant,
they're not going to have enoughhours to get it.
Like you're going to put peoplein a very precarious position.
And we got connected and I saidI'm a leaves expert, let me
write down what I think it'sgoing to be.
I think you should shorten itfrom 600 to 400, like in order
to make this happen.
And they did Right.

(12:01):
So it was like they did.
They shortened the hours andthen the prime minister and the
deputy prime minister like we'dlike to meet with you.
I was like, ok, but I didn'twant them to meet me.
I wanted them to hear frompeople.
I need you to listen to them,because these are the people who
are being impacted by yourpolicies, and I need you to
listen what they're goingthrough Social workers who
haven't seen their kids in amonth because they're like so

(12:22):
hopefully that this will formwhat you decide to do going
forward.
And it was amazing.
And then I registered Moms thatWork as a business in 2022.
And now we have 30,000 peoplein our network and we've done a
lot of advocacy work in themeantime.
That's how it started.
It was just me going I can'tlet this happen.
And it's been collective right,like I'm not doing this happen.

(12:43):
It would.
And it's been collective right,like I'm not doing this by
myself.
I keep asking who the hell canget me a call with someone.
Help me do something.
If you can introduce me, I'lldo the work right that is.

Julia Pennella (12:55):
I just got goosebumps, uh, it's.
It's such a selfless act andI'm so happy that you, you were
able to cultivate this community, because I think community I
grew up italian like communityis always really important and I
feel like as well with women,connect, like female connections
are so precious and when weI've seen it firsthand, even

(13:15):
just your example women comingtogether, we get shit done.
Yeah, and it it pisses me offwhen we don't have more women in
you know, management and seniorroles, because we get shit done
.
Look, you changed ei withvoices of women, bringing voices
together and being persistent.
And I also really admire howyou said straight up the
policymakers need to heardirectly from women who are

(13:39):
being impacted by this.
What does community mean to you?
You basically built yourbusiness off the idea of
community and obviously aterrible world incident
happening at the same time.
But why do you think communityis so important?
For women?
It's everything.

Allison Venditti (13:58):
It's literally everything, and it's not just
even for women.
I'm in community with, likeother men or whatever, but like
both come from Italian families.
We know how important it is tohave people.
And the other thing aboutcommunity is I'm like I really
rub against this thing.
You don't have to agree oneverything, absolutely.
There's sort of like if youdon't, if you can't be this

(14:18):
person, you can't be with us.
I am not about that.
I would never feign to tellsomeone who's in a completely
different life circumstancesthat they should do something
that I would do, because it'snot true.
So people always ask me.
They're like well, how can Iadvocate at work or whatever?
I'm like you might not be ableto because it's dangerous.
That's the reality.
Yeah, that's the reality.
I'm not advocating out here.

(14:39):
Like the way that I do advocacyisn't out yelling about things.
I work very collaborativelywith people.
That's how you get stuff done.
So I tell people look, if youwant to build community and you
want to help women, talk abouthow much you make, go grab that
new 22-year-old who just started, or whatever, and tell them all
the things they need to knowabout your workplace.
You need to help people.
And people look to do these big, massive things.

(14:59):
Moms at Work wasn't meant to bea big, massive thing.
It actually makes it harder.
But the one-on-one connections.
It's taking the time, likepeople come to moms at work.
Because I take the time still,I get on the phone with people,
I'll connect them with people.
We now have free legal advice.
You tell me what we need, we'lldo it.
But women have not been showingup, for I understand people

(15:21):
don't believe in communitybecause so no one showed up for
them.
And the one line that Iremember in COVID I think they
remember that woman in thebathtub, like with her kids.
You know she's trying to workin the bathtub, kids are in the
bathroom and I was like no oneis coming to save us.
And for a long time I think alot of women were sheltered from
the fact because they had ananny or they had some daycare
and they thought that they hadwhatever.
And then when the world shutdown, it was all on them.

(15:43):
Even if you had a job, even ifyou had a degree, even if you'd
done all the correct things, andno one was coming to save you.

Julia Pennella (15:49):
And that was awful I didn't even think about
that too Like what you said,where some women maybe have felt
shielded because they had allthese supports.
But yeah, when you look at itagain, C-Session caregiver
community or caregiver network,is primarily women PSWs, nurses
like nannies, daycares, allthese elements dramatically

(16:11):
impacting the workforce andwomen are the fucks of the
economy.
Because if we're not working orwhatever definition of working
is, if it's a corporate job ordaycare, if we're not in some
sort of capacity there, theeconomy is going to shut down,
which I think we really saw withCOVID, and then, unfortunately
as well the social implicationsassociated with that right?

Allison Venditti (16:34):
Yeah Well, you're a policy person.
I'm like unpaid labor.
Women's unpaid labor wassupposed to be part of the GDP
initially and a woman said itand it was men who left it out.
If we included women's unpaidlabor in the gross domestic
product of things, I was like wewould have a fundamentally
different understanding of howwe value labor.

Julia Pennella (16:56):
Absolutely, absolutely.
That all that like invisiblework and we see it all the time
Like parents could, both parentscould be working, but mom still
maybe doing the laundry.

Allison Venditti (17:06):
Also a little mental hurdles of OK, okay,
gotta take the kids to thesoccer, dentist, you know, all
these other things that totallyget unrecognized or
unappreciated sometimes, as well, yeah, and like that gets into
all sorts of things, like everodsky's, the person who put
together fair play as a sort ofthing, and I'm like that really
works if you have a relationshipand when you can tell your
partner that you want to splitthings which most, most women

(17:26):
don't like, not all women do, ifyou have a partner, which not
all women do, but it's likesingle mothers.
So everything that we do atMoms at Work, I put on the lens
as like a single mother, not bychoice, a single mother who is
trying to navigate all of thesethings.
I'm like, what can we do tomake a difference there?

Julia Pennella (17:46):
Absolutely.
And again, it's so importantbringing that perspective
because it often gets overlookedand I'm so glad to hear that
you made enough of a splash andoutreach and that persistence to
get those conversations at thetable, because that's where the
grassroots advocacy starts offwith and then we start to see
more changes.
That's also a bit of whatinspired me, just going on the

(18:09):
theme of community, why Istarted this podcast.
I want more women to hear yourvoices or reach out and just,
you know, understand we're herefor each other and we can share
our experiences and challengethe patriarchy realistically,
especially in these workplacesor in media or in politics and
policy, because I think it'simportant and I think I felt

(18:31):
sometimes blinded by that.
I'm like, oh no, we have, wehave feminist policies, we have
gender parity in cabinet, butthe reality is still, when it
comes to the day to day, it'snot reflected there and it was a
bit of a, I would say, a wakeup call, but it was.
It's something I've been goingthrough recently and it's still
very jarring to me.

Allison Venditti (18:47):
This is a bit of a different tangent, but I
will say when people ask meabout moms at work, they assume
we're a non-for-profit.
They assume we get governmentfunding and we absolutely do not
.
The reason that we are able tosay and do the things we do is I
run a profitable business.
I'm a woman with a profitablebusiness that has social impact

(19:08):
in it.
So I don't want to run abusiness if I can't help change
these things.
So our organization in itselfis a pushback against the things
that we're told.
So we are told everybody says,oh, have you registered for
non-for-profit status?
Are you a charity?
I'm like no, because thatrequires a level of oversight
and a level of commitment tothings that I don't want to do.

(19:30):
So people ask us how we do somuch advocacy.
I'm like getting funding fromthe federal government means
that you cannot disagree withthem, you cannot say anything
about them, like there's a wholelist, there's pages of rules
and then you can only pay yourstaff a certain amount.
F that I was like.
I am running a company built bywomen for women.
All my staff are part-time.
We don't work Fridays.

(19:57):
We're closed down overChristmas.
I'm building the thing that Iwant to see.
But, believe me, some, I'mmaking money because I'm not
going to fall into that trapwhere, like, I won't be able to
sell my business, I don't haveany value in my business, that
if something happens to like myfamily, I won't have anything to
think.
And I think that we really needto fundamentally shift that
narrative in the fact that, like, if you want to do good in the
world, it doesn't mean that youhave to do it on the back of
unpaid labor of women.

(20:17):
I am paid for what I do and I'mpaid well.
And I disagree fundamentallythat only non-for-profits should
be able to be doing this workin this space, because it's
wrong.

Julia Pennella (20:26):
I feel the fire.
I'm loving this and I want youto scream that out too, because,
to be honest, I go through liferight now, at this stage in my
career and age and whatnot.
I need to just show up like awhite, mediocre man.
Come with that confidence, yeah, and not think about it.
Not think about the mentalhurdles, like you just said.
Oh, not for profit, and how arewe going to sign up and do all

(20:49):
these paperwork and this formsto do it?
No, you're coming in with apurpose, with, again, a benefit
to broader society and differentfemale and women groups, but
also doing it profitably andstill doing change, like they
can go hand in hand.
I think that a lot of timesdoes get missed as well when it
comes to when people arethinking about businesses or

(21:10):
maybe anxious about it right.

Allison Venditti (21:13):
Well, I used like Patagonia as an example and
like they make outdoor gear,but they're way more than that.
And so when people work with us, when you coach with us, when
you join our collective, whenyou take our courses, there's a
layer there.
You're not just joining awomen's group or whatever.
You want to be part of thechange.
I want to ask this expectationthat women, that you have to
volunteer your time in order tobe that change.

(21:33):
When you invest in us, we dothe work.
Yeah, so there is that extralayer that we don't have
sponsorships.
I'm not selling my list toWalmart like they can suck it.
I'm not going to let likeanybody put their logo on my
website.
We are here for a purpose andour purpose is our members.
So, with someone who represents30,000 women, who knows what

(21:58):
their employer does to them, ifI put one of those employers
logos on my website, I amabandoning my people and picking
their employer over them, and Iwill never do that.
So we are trusted with thatinformation of how they were
harmed and how they were hurtand I'm like now I have no
choice.
So I'm like and I can'tunderstand how women's

(22:19):
organizations exist for womenwhile taking bank money.
I just don't, I don'tunderstand.

Julia Pennella (22:25):
Is it because of those experiences that you know
some of your members haveshared.

Allison Venditti (22:29):
We have gone to that.
We've led human rightscomplaints and they say I work
for X and X organization.
I was assaulted in the bathroom, they terminated me.
He still has a job.
I was pregnant with twins.
I lost both my babies and theyterminated me while I was on
leave and I was like I cannotsit by and then, on the next

(22:51):
hand, be like oh, here'sso-and-so's initiative about
wellness and whatever.
I'm like you are bad people.
You let that happen to someonewho was struggling and I'm
picking them.
I'm not picking you, keep yourmoney.
I don't want it.
I never want to have to makethat decision.
People are like oh, but yougive up sponsorship or grants.

Julia Pennella (23:10):
I would rather not do this than do it that way

(23:30):
no-transcript, and you have thatcollective, you know view and
that collective want to changethings.
So that's, that's.
That's really amazing.
This is where sometimes like oh, I have this podcast and I meet
women, I'm like, ok, there'sfolk, there is folk.

Allison Venditti (23:51):
Well, and it's not typical, right, and I was
like so change isn't done,because we're doing it the same
way anymore and I don't feellike we're doing that much
different.
When you use the phrase Ibelieve women and then you don't
, or you abandon them or youignore them, then we're just
perpetuating harm over and overand over again.
And people disagreefundamentally with a lot of the
things that I do.
I get that, but again, youdon't have to agree with

(24:16):
everything, right?
You have politicians, you havecompanies or whatever.
We can be friends and not agreeon everything, and I feel like
the divisiveness that happenedin a couple of things I was like
is the one thing that's keptmoms that work together.
Listen to me, this is personaland I don't care that you voted
like this last time or didwhatever.
You belong here with us andpeople aren't told that People

(24:39):
are abandoned instantly and I'mnot going to do that to people
and I'm like I can even not likepeople and still fight for that
.

Julia Pennella (24:46):
Yeah, I think too, and I'd be interested on
your take on this.
I feel like a lot of politicshas become very polarized now.
Social media, we're seeing it,and why I think I admire your
organization so much too, is itkind of strips away from that
noise, because all it is noise.
But at the end of the day,what's the basis we're trying to
achieve here?
And I think it's reallyinteresting to see that you've

(25:09):
been able to cultivate that kindof that area.
It's a really like a niche Idon't want to say niche, because
there's so many things.
It's not a small thing, butbeing able to kind of peel those
layers back and again soadmirable to uphold moral values
, I think, aside from corporatesponsorship and all these things

(25:29):
.
I'm going on a little bit of atangent here, but I'm going to
bring it back.
But how do you find thepolarization right now when it
comes to politics and do youfind that might have a
repercussion on women in theworkplace or moms in the
workplace?

Allison Venditti (25:45):
Absolutely.
I'm like there's some peopleout there saying some pretty
friggin things, things that wehave fought really hard like
really, really hard, to keep.
Um, canada's got a lot ofthings going for it that the us
doesn't, and I work with a lotof us advocacy groups and it's
scary.
It is scary what is happeningthere.
But what I've seen is I'm likethere's a lot of women's
organizations that have existedfor a really long time and I'm

(26:08):
like, like, show me the receipts.
Show me the receipts of whatyou've done.
And if your advocacy piece onyour website is this big and you
receive $30 million ofgovernment funding to make this
better for women, I'm likeyou're not doing your job.
You're not doing your job.
So do I feel represented by?
Do I feel that you've gainedanything for me?
No, and the people who do that,the people who every time,

(26:33):
they're not the big fancynon-for-profits, they're
grassroots organizers who havesmall teams, small budgets,
whatever and like get in thereevery time.
I made a list when I startedMoms at Work.
I finished that list last yearand I have a new list now
because it's not tied to athree-year funding model and I
am accountable to no one otherthan my members.
So when people say to me, well,what have you done?
I'm like let me show you, and Idon't see that in other

(26:57):
organizations, where people haveto stop believing that you're
going to be the one to help themif you've never helped them,
and I think that, in itself,those are the spaces where we're
supposed to believe in peopleand we're supposed to hope and
we're supposed to feel protected, and there's less polarization
when you feel like there'ssomeone fighting for you in any

(27:18):
sense, and so I get why peopleare going towards certain
political parties or whatever,because they feel abandoned by
politicians, by their families,by whatever.
We've really grown apartpost-COVID, and so I keep saying
to people I'm like I refuse tomake that happen.
For me, though, organizationsalso have to.
You know some way and I'mhoping this comes out right like
they have to stay in their lane.

(27:38):
So Moms at Work is asked to doa lot of things like get
involved in this, get involvedin this, get what.
I'm like we are fighting formothers in Canada.
That's my target demographic,that's my audience, that's my
goal, that's what I've committedto Personally.
Outside of it, I do lots ofother things, things that I'm
committed to, but I'm like atthis organization, we're only
going to be successful if westay focused.

(27:59):
So I really really appreciatethat people want us as part of
their fight.
But we work with specificorganizations that I feel like
we can collaborate well and makemovements.
So we usually don't work withorganizations who have been
around for 50 years and haven'treally done much, because I was
like I don't think we're goingto work well together.
You kind of have to.
People aren't going to believeyou unless you show up and do it

(28:20):
.
Yeah, talking's cheap.
Absolutely Talk is the cheapestform of currency.

Julia Pennella (28:31):
I want to dive into and you mentioned it
briefly a life-altering instinct.

Allison Venditti (28:38):
So, for context, I suffered traumatic
brain injury, which is like asignificant form of concussion.
To preface that, I've had eightconcussions.
Prior to that, I playedcompetitive sports.
This is not something thatpeople need to worry about
happening on a first hit kind ofthing.
Like it's just not.
I just want to don't wantpeople to panic, but I did.
I got a significant concussionwhen I was 33 and my kids were

(29:00):
three and one, so it's in like2015.
And I'd had concussions before.
I thought nothing of it and Ithought that you know, like it
would get better.
It didn't get better, it gotsignificantly worse.
So I ended up with a seizuredisorder.
I lost the use of my left armand I lost the ability to read.
So I was in full time barredbrain injury recovery.

(29:21):
Actually, I couldn't doanything for the first six
months because I was I wasseizing so regularly that like
they can't make any improvementsif everything that you try and
do, then you have a seizure andfall apart.
So, um, but having that and athree and a one-year-old doesn't
do well together, right?
Um, so it was.
It was a lot.
I was off work.

(29:41):
I was actually I was off workuntil 2018.
So I was off work for almostthree years and my rehab was,
you know, 18, 20 months, likewe're talking about to get to
like a grade two level reading.
Like rehabbing is not like backto normal, it's back to like
some form of function.
I also lost like a lot oflong-term memory and also

(30:01):
short-term memory.
Um, and yeah it's.
You know most people when theyhave that, they lose the ability
to like speak or do things, andso reading is a very rare thing
to lose.
You have no idea how hard lifeis when not only like can you
not read, but I was finally likea voracious reader, it was my
everything.
I have a history degree.
I like my entire world ispolicy, it's legislation, and I

(30:25):
can't read any of that.
I was told that I wasunemployable, so I have it in a
letter.
So the insurance company waslike you do not meet the level
of function required to work andI was like, amazing, so I'm 35
years old, I'm told that I can'twork, but also my kids are
foreign.
So it was not a good period inmy life.
I was not like how am I goingto make this better?

(30:49):
It's like maybe I shouldn't behere anymore.

Julia Pennella (30:50):
Like maybe life would be better if I just like
didn't exist because I was notokay, I'm so sorry you went
through that and got that low,but I'm so also happy to see
where you've come and whatyou're doing.
I read in your blog explainingthat incident and you bolded in
the phrase and it was it reallytook me back.
You said I repeatedly told myhusband to leave me.

(31:11):
It was so striking to read whatwas driving those thoughts and
and do you, you know, have anyregrets about seeing that now?

Allison Venditti (31:20):
nope, I was like I, I was not in a good
place and I will say, like mostpeople who have traumatic brain
injuries, like there's likethere's rage issues, there's
anger issues.
You know, both me and mypartner are like high
functioning, high performanceadults and I was like I'm not
who you married anymore.
I don't know if I'm going to beable to give you what you need.

(31:40):
So the one thing about me is,in that moment I'm not thinking
about me.
I want you to be okay and Iwant our kids to be okay.
And right now I'm not a goodpartner and I'm not a good.
I'm not a good mother and, likeat the early point, I was told
I can't pick up my children, soI cannot pick them up.
If I have a seizure, I willdrop them.
Like what are you supposed todo with that?

(32:00):
And there is no ability for meto say I'm going to get any
better than that, so you mightbe stuck with this for the next,
like whatever.
And I came from health care.
I started my career inunionized health care and we had
a group home for people who arequadriplegic and about half of
the group members, like theirpartners, divorced them because
they wanted them to go on andhave a life.

(32:21):
This wasn't because they wantedwhatever.
I'm like I want you to haveoptions because I love you,
right, and I don't want you tobe stuck with this.
And my husband, as he often does, ignored me.
He was like I know what you'resaying is like whatever, but
between between us, I lost mymom when I was like 25.
He lost his dad when he was,when we were 28.
We've been through a lottogether, so this just didn't

(32:42):
seem like that big of a deal tohim, but for me it was.
I love you too much to let youstay here and do this.
And he was like that's nice,I'm just kidding, brian.
So do I regret it?
No, have we been together for20 years?
Yes, I will look back and Iwill say that my brain injury is
not the biggest thing thatwe've dealt with.
Wow.

Julia Pennella (33:02):
It's just refreshing to hear that
unconditional love on both sidesright, it's on both sides there
.
So that's really amazing tohear that unconditional love on
both sides right, it's on bothsides there.
So that's really amazing tohear how you overcame it and
with your family as part of thatjourney.
How did you get out of thatdark place Again, from where it
was you said about 2018, tillstarting your business a few

(33:22):
years later, to where you arenow?
How did you overcome it, beingin that space physically and
mentally right?

Allison Venditti (33:28):
Well, I'm like I woke up every day wondering
if I was going to be alive.
That does something to you.
I lost a lot of time with mykids.
I lost a lot of time.
I spent hundreds of hours inrehab.
I could not get out of bed.
I was like I am not going tolose any more of this, so
whatever I'm going to do, it'sgoing to be with them.
And my husband was like youknow what?
Maybe just don't work.
And I was like, well, thatsounds awful.

(33:50):
Right, I will say you know,people can knock the Canadian
health care system all they want.
I had a team of doctors that Iswear, fucking believed in me.
Right, Like really believed inme.
I had a neurophysiatrist.
I had a neurologist.
I had an entire rehab team.
I had speech therapy.
I had a lot of people investedin me doing a good job.
No one here was let's like, getyou to a shitty place and leave

(34:12):
you there.
So it's really hard, whenyou're someone else's success,
to not step up to them.

Julia Pennella (34:18):
Wow, yeah, that's again so, so amazing, and
I also hear you on that piecetoo.
It's easy to knock the Canadianhealthcare system when it's
like like, okay, I need to gosee my family doctor, whatever
you go through the wait process.
But when it comes to theseserious issues, uh, family
members of mine also wentthrough cancer and seeing the,
the dedicated care is is just soheroic and remarkable and so

(34:40):
grateful when you compare it toother countries, especially our
neighbors, uh, to the south.

Allison Venditti (34:45):
No, I paid for none of this.
Top neurophysiatrist, an18-month inpatient program.
I had home care, like I hadpeople in my house 15 hours a
week Wow, and I never onceworried can I afford this?
Should I be doing speechtherapy?
It was like no, we're doing it.
I didn't have a choice.
They're like you're doing this,whether you like it or not, I

(35:05):
do.
I want to read frog and toadbooks again on my Monday morning
.
No, am I doing it?
Yes, but yeah, I come fromhealth care, but I'm just like,
until I've experienced it thesame way you know my mom's going
through cancer I'm like I haveno complaints.

Julia Pennella (35:21):
Absolutely, and I think the biggest thing about
being seen, being seen by thehealthcare system, being seen by
your family and that ties intoa little bit of my next question
here On your website,thisismomsatworkcom, the first
thing you see on the page in big, bold, capital letters is ICU.
Why did you open or choose toopen?

Allison Venditti (35:44):
with that on the website, because I spent my
entire life feeling unseen.
I didn't think that anybodycared, like I have one kid who
shall be unnamed.
Everything is hard there.
Everywhere I went, I look likea horrible mother.
I'm like my kid is having, youknow, meltdown and this is

(36:04):
happening and and I experiencedthat and I didn't feel seen at
work and I didn't feel seen athome and you know, I felt like
my mother was an amazing mother.
I don't think she yelled at meonce.
She was a kindergarten teacher.
We did crafts, like you name it.
We did it.
And I'm not that mother.
I am craftless.
I am, you know, able to do alot of that.
I was just like I don't knowhow to do any of these things

(36:32):
and it's the one thing thatpeople kept saying and I was
like so you're not feeling this,you're just feeling completely
unseen, and so everything that Iwrite on that website, it's so
easy for me because it is me andI don't want anybody to feel
like that again ever.
Moms don't work as a business.
Of course, I would love it towork with you and look, but you
don't need to if you follow uson social media and feel seen,
if you laugh at like my memes,because those are hilarious.
That's important to me.

Julia Pennella (36:48):
But if you're going to spend your time with us
and you're going to invest inus, we're going to invest back
because we see you absolutelyand, and I can 100 say, I see
you in the, in the website, theway it's written, uh, like you
said, the memes it's.
It's entertaining butinformative, but it gives me
that little burst of joy, um,and it's really remarkable that
you've been able to like,capture your voice and put it in

(37:09):
this platform and share thatwith people, and it's so great
to see.

Allison Venditti (37:13):
The one thing I realized is I'm like I'm an
amazing writer, I love writingand I'm very good at it.
But I'm also like, very like, Idon't leave a lot of room for
fluff, which I think a lot ofpeople feel like you need to do
more.
But I come from a place where Ibelieve, like you're not stupid
if you don't know this stuff,like no one.
No one goes to moms at workwhen they're pregnant no one.
Because you're going to be fine, everything's great.

(37:35):
Like other people experiencethis, but not me.
I'm not going to have this.
I thought the same thing.
I'm like I remember when I waspregnant with my first
no-transcript shut up, I waslike thank you for that, but

(37:56):
also shut up, and I alwaysthought this will never happen
to me.
I'll never experience thesethings.
That's other people's issuesand I'm like, no, everybody,
nobody gets around it.
For the people who come andfind us, I want them to be
really happy and I want them tounderstand that there is no
stupid questions and if youdon't know this stuff, you're
not an idiot, it's just you'venever needed to deal with this.
So every person who comesthrough our door, I try and make

(38:17):
sure that, like no one talksdown to you, that you're feeling
seen and welcomed.

Julia Pennella (38:28):
And in everything we write, in every
social media post.
That's our goal.

Allison Venditti (38:30):
That's amazing , and music's my ear.
Have you ever thought ofrunning?
I'm a strategist.
Mums at Work is the first timeI've ever gone out front.
Do you know what I mean Like?
And it came out of necessity.
And I am incredibly strategic.
I can pick through somethingand make a strategy and a plan
and an execution.
I can see this light yearsahead of other people and I do,

(38:52):
and I do advisory work.
I advise for tech companies, Iadvise companies, I do whatever,
and my happy place is to get inand get out.
I am not an extrovert I reallyam not.
But people assume that becauseI'm on social media, I'm like,
yeah, but I'm by myself in myhouse.
I do not love big groups at all, so I don't do a lot of live
events.
I find them extremelyoverwhelming and most of that's

(39:13):
due to the brain injury, so Icannot.
It's really hard for more thanone person to talk at me at the
same time.
I get overwhelmed and then mybrain shuts down and I just need
to lie in a corner for two days.
And I will also say that's ahard rule in my family.
I have to put my family first.
I put moms at work first for avery long time and it burnt me
out and made me unavailable forthings because my brain could

(39:33):
not do it.
So that's been a big shift.
Like to respect the fact thatI'm doing this for me too, but
it's hard right.
Can you keep balance?
Badly, so people always seethis where they're like you know
, follow your passion.
I'm not a good example of that.
I'm obsessive, I'm annoying,I'm relentless, I'm like a dog
with a bone.
I'm like to work with thatperson in corporate is horrible,

(39:54):
like I'm a horrible person towork with in corporate.
But on the outside it's likewhen you look at Steve Jobs, did
he have a happy family life?
No, if you look at some ofthese guys who are working like
that, and I was like this isn'twhat I'm working.
So it takes regular adjustmentand I'm very thankful I'm going
to shout out I have, you know,jen's, who helps her with my

(40:14):
marketing, and she's known mefor a long time.
It's been really helpful to havesomeone be like why are you
doing this, not for everybodyelse?
Who's taking from you andbenefiting for you?
And I was like I want to spendtime with my kids.
I want to spend more time withmy husband.
I want to have flexibility andautonomy.
Two of my kids are still sickkids patients so I every month,
I reestablish what I want and Ihave had to hire people to help

(40:36):
me, so it gives me more time.
What I really love is I lovebeing in the collective, and
when you're in the collectivewith me, I'm like, dm me anytime
, ask me anything.
I am literally there to have mybrain picked and it's my
favorite way to work with peoplebecause I don't have, to like,
cut them off at the 50 minutemark, right, I am so invested in
these women.
It's gross, right, and that'sexactly how I like.

Julia Pennella (40:56):
I love it, I love it.
I would say I definitely havelike very similar traits too,
like I could just like I'm sureyou and I could just talk for
hours.
There's a few things that wasreally interesting to me.
How did you know you were astrategist?
Was this something you alwaysknow or was it something you
grew into?
Was it people telling you, oris it just you woke up one day
and you're like fuck, I'm goodat this.

Allison Venditti (41:16):
I love being thrown in the deep end like hard
Always.
I'm huge in competitive sports.
I am incredibly competitive,like unnaturally competitive.
It's actually a problem.
My dad is also, but he's calmeddown as he's gotten older, so I
have hope that I will calm downtoo.
I don't like things that areeasy.

(41:37):
I like big, bad, weird problems, and so the things that I did
at work that I loved were hugeprogram development.
So they'd be like we have70,000 employees.
We're trying to like level thebenefits across all of these
employees in four countries, in50 states, in whatever.

(41:59):
How do we start?
And I'm like, oh my God, thisis the best thing ever and I
would have files of papers.
I just obsess about them andget them, and nobody else would
touch it with a 10-foot poleexcept for me and a few people,
and that's why I really lovedworking.
I did some contract work intech and there are no rules,
there's no parameters, there'sno things.
And it was only really when Istarted doing some advisory
stuff where I was like how dopeople not know this?

(42:21):
And I'm like, oh right, becauseI'm the expert, right, like I'm
the expert now and that's aplace that I'm really
comfortable in.
I also have a really hightolerance for looking stupid.
I do not care.
I love wearing Star Wars shirts, I will always wear Converse, I
will always do whatever, andwhen I'm wrong I say I'm wrong
and we try again.

(42:41):
But most people there's so muchperformance, there's so much
other things they have to beright.
It has to has to be perfect.
I'm like you're never going toget anywhere if you're waiting
for perfection.
So that is a strategy thing andyou have to be okay with it not
working.
What people don't see is 90% ofour advocacy work fails hard
like nothing.

(43:01):
Nobody.
People are very angry about it.
They don't want to talk to us.
They're offended by the factthat we're asking for these
things so like we have a wholelist of wins but to get there
it's a whole stack of failures.

Julia Pennella (43:11):
Absolutely, we're both.
You know, we're both historynerds.
History is written by winners.
Yeah Right, and that's what wasdrawn to me for history is.
I wanted to learn about thelosers, because understand how
they lost helps the greater partof whatever you're trying to
achieve.
What advice would you have foranyone that maybe is feeling

(43:36):
stuck in a career or stuck with?

Allison Venditti (43:42):
you know some sort of mental barrier that they
can't do it.
No one thinks their way out ofanything.
So when I talk about careerchange, I'm like you have to do
it.
Well, what does that mean?
Have coffee with people, chatabout it, go volunteer and do it
.
I didn't think about moms atwork, I just did it.
Open up, start a Facebook group, open it up, and you'll just
you do it again and again andagain.
So every day you're going toshow up and you're going to do
something.
That's going to suck and it'sgoing to be hard.

(44:02):
So I think that's the hard partis people like but I don't know
exactly what I want to do, andyou never will until you try it
and do it and it's going to suck.
So that's my advice to people.

Julia Pennella (44:13):
Why do you think I'm a victim?
I know a lot of women are.
Why do you think women tend toget in their heads about not
just doing it and they have tothink it all through and not
take the risk?
Why do you think that isBecause we're punished?

Allison Venditti (44:26):
when it's not perfect.
So there's different levelshere.
But not everybody is thickskinned and not everybody has a
supportive partner and noteverybody has financial means to
do the things they want to do.
So, yes, these things may beimpossible for you.
I have lots of people who arelike I want to make a difference
in the world, I want to do thisthing, and I'm like, yes, but
you need to make $140,000 inorder to do that.

(44:47):
Welcome to capitalism.
It's not designed for this.
So maybe you don't do all thethings that you love at work.
Maybe you do a job that treatsyou well and gives you great
benefits and then you do theother thing over here, like it
all doesn't have to be tied towork.
People don't believe me, butI'm like.
Moms at work is on myeverything.

(45:07):
I have a lot of things that I'mpassionate about, other than
moms at work, that I don't needto talk about on social media.
I don't need to do whatever.
I am a complex and entire humanbeing and I love that.
People love moms at work, but Iam not moms at work, wow.

Julia Pennella (45:21):
Very well said and I think that that brings a
lot of questions to pushingyourself and, like you said,
having that thick skin and notworrying.
If you have to look stupid, youlook stupid.

Allison Venditti (45:30):
But also LinkedIn is the best and the
worst thing ever, so people useit to compare themselves.
Someone graduated, they didthis.
So I'm like let's stopcomparing ourselves to people
who have a lot more time,resources and energy than
ourselves and expect that to belike a fair playing field,
because it's not.
Yeah, do I want it to be?
Yes, is it not?
No, but like beating yourselfup about it isn't going to get

(45:51):
you what you need.
Um, I also think it's fair forme.
I have a high tolerance forlooking stupid, because I bounce
back really quickly.
Other people don't, and ittakes them a long time to
process things, and that's avery dangerous way for them to
exist, and so that's why I waslike the things that work for me
and the things that work forother people are not going to be
the same.
So people have to really knowthemselves and respect their

(46:11):
personal boundaries and thethings that they're able to do,
because it's not fair to tellpeople, as a coach or whatever,
to do things that they'reincredibly out of alignment with
.

Julia Pennella (46:21):
Yeah, and I think too, there's a piece of
like, acceptance, like justbeing okay and accepting okay, I
can't do this, but that's fine,I can do something better than
somebody else, and whatever thatis, or you have a different
strength, but I think that'swhere I know.
Personally, I get caught upsometimes and just having to
take that step back and be likeokay, it's okay, this is how
things are, this is how I am,and that's fine, let's just find

(46:42):
a different avenue.

Allison Venditti (46:44):
But also like, success changes fundamentally.
I'm like now teaching careerschool because one of the topics
is success.
Like, and success hasfundamentally changed.
Like, what you thought wassuccessful in your 20s is
different than in your 30s andthe thing that you trained at
school for might no longer be inalignment over here and the
things that are important to menow, like right in the thick of
parenting, are going to go rightout the window in 10 years.

(47:07):
But I will say this as someonewho talks about work all the
time, and work is not youreverything and it shouldn't be.
And to place that muchexpectation on a thing that is
not your everything isincredibly unfair.
So people are looking for theseperfect, passion-driven,
well-paid, great co-worker jobsand are so disappointed when

(47:29):
that doesn't happen.
And I was like what else do youhave going on in your life
going to protect you when thatthing isn't perfect?
Like, what else is there?
And I really push people thatin their 30s and 40s because
it's not your everything.
Yeah, not.

Julia Pennella (47:44):
I think I needed that too as a little pop talk,
because because I find I get inthat rabbit hole sometimes and
then you know having to takethat step back and your family,
your health, those have to workfirst above everything else,
right?
And it's so easy to get intothat loop.

Allison Venditti (47:59):
I'm also not saying like your job is the
thing that feeds your family, ohyeah, the thing that you went
to school for, right?
So other people are like maybeI shouldn't care about my job.
Of course you should.
You invested five years of yourlife.
But let's not be a whole HailMary here where it's everything
and all the things.
It's okay to take steps back,steps forward.
It's okay to try differentthings.

(48:20):
I always tell people blinderson.
Stop looking at what yourneighbor does.
Stop looking at them as thecomparison for happiness.
Right, you have no idea what'sgoing on under the curtains and
it's never ending.

Julia Pennella (48:31):
Going back to social media, I see a girl in a
bikini and I'm going to thinkabout my body and it's just like
it never ends.
So just what's the point?
I feel like I'm slowly pushingmyself towards that.
What's the point?
Just be happy.
It's finding, I think, thatbalance as well, like what you
said about work and family andall these other pieces.

Allison Venditti (48:49):
And I will say I'm like never in my life have
I seen people so invested inmoms at work, like people have
expectations and desires for mycompany that I don't, and so
when I make changes, people arelike what?
And I was like no, no, no, no,no.
This is for me too.
As the woman I'm allowed to sayI don't want to do this anymore

(49:10):
.
So watch yourself in what yourexpectations are being put on
other women.
I'm not a major bank.
There's not 30,000 people.
This is very much still me, andso every couple of months, I
have to sit down and go.
Is this working for me?
And I think that's very hardfor people to accept because

(49:33):
they're so invested in it.
Right, when people are soinvested in you, like the same
way, your parents are right.
We just want you to be happy,we just want you to be whatever.
And people say to me they'relike why did you do that?
Why did you shut that down?
I'm like because it's notworking for me and I need this
in order for me to keep movinglike this, the way that people
want me to.
It has to be working for me.

Julia Pennella (49:53):
What would you say is next for you and moms at
work?

Allison Venditti (49:57):
So many things I will say, and I've been
working on it for a while.
We put out my Parental Leave asa resource to teach people
their rights during maternityand parental leave, and it's not
enough.
So the next phase and again Ihave the ability to do this
stuff for free, right, I'm justgiving this stuff away because I
choose to Everybody's like youshould monetize I'm like be

(50:19):
quiet about the monetization of,like knowledge.
Our next phase is going to bemy hope is to train what I call
helping professions doulas,nurses, frontline care,
physicians, like if women arecoming to you and they have
questions, you know you go tofill out forms, so you go to
your social worker to fill out aform for work and I'm like you

(50:43):
should understand how toadvocate for your patients.
You should understand thesethings.
So our goal is to train mypersonal goal 500 helping
professions, so that we're notcaught in this loop of nobody
knowing what to do to try andhelp people right, and my hope
is that, because these are thepeople who interact mostly with
these individuals, that thenthey will be able to be better
advocates for them.
I think that's the way to likereally move this forward so that

(51:04):
I'm pretty excited about.
And then also all the EIchanges that are coming down the
pipeline are phenomenallyexciting.
They redistributed parentalleave for people who are
self-employed.
You can now take parental leave, which is something we fought
really hard for.
So that's super exciting.
But they're going to be makingbig changes in how EI's rolled
out.
That we've been waiting for fora while.

(51:25):
But that's big things I'mexcited about.

Julia Pennella (51:28):
That's, you know , so amazing.
I felt like I was just alwayson the edge of my seat here,
like I was like, but what elseis there to do?
Like I mean, there's so much todo, but it's just.
It's so remarkable that you'redoing this and I really want to
commend you for it because it'sso like refreshing.
It brings me hope as a futuremom hopefully one day.
I do.
Really, you know, value familyand want to have that one day,

(51:54):
and it's really inspiring to seesomeone like you out there
doing the work and being ourvoice for women now, but also
for future, because it I feellike just been put off too long.
So it's really great toactually see your perseverance
and everything.
So I just want to thank you somuch, alison, for being on here
and answering my questions andsharing all this amazing work
you're doing, and not just formoms, but changing our

(52:16):
ecosystems and our socialsystems and our social welfare
system, because it's longoverdue.
So I want to thank you for andbeing vulnerable as well sharing
some really challenging piecesin your life.
It helps people relate, um, andit's really, again, inspiring
to see.
So I want to thank you so muchfor being here.
Make sure to follow allison uhon all social media platforms.

(52:37):
Moms at work allison venditti.
Any other closing thoughts youwant to share?

Allison Venditti (52:42):
yeah, just people come to me and they're
like how can I help and what canI do?
The best thing you can do is topick 10 people and help them.
You have women at work, talk tothem about money.
You have someone who's gotquestions.
Take the time.
The world is changed by smallacts of kindness.
So I know everybody wants to beup here doing the big thing,
doing the whatever, and that'snot how it works.

(53:02):
Moms at Work doesn't work likethat.
It works.
It's like incestuous, it's justlike in the cracks.
People talk about paytransparency, all of those
things.
I'm like that's how change ismade.
We fundamentally shift howpeople think by collectively
talking about it.
Women need to be in communitywith each other, but men need to
be in community with us as well.
But we need to start reallytalking about these issues, and

(53:24):
the way you change someone'smind is not by yelling at them.
It's by discussing it andhaving conversations and
answering questions, and I thinkthe world needs a whole lot
more of that Very well said,alison, thank you.

Julia Pennella (53:34):
Thank you so much for this.
That was great, so that's awrap.