September 17, 2025 • 50 mins
Pack your eye mask, pop your electrolytes, and maybe thank past you for leaving a Xanax and a bottle of water on the nightstand - because this week, Pete and Bisq-it are tackling the art (and science) of party recovery.
From two-day wine hangovers to full-on multi-day festival ferality, our hosts get raw about liquid courage, extracurricular enhancements, and what it really takes to bounce back when your body feels like a crime scene. Enter Zen from Soft Landings, who joins the chaos to spill all about his supplement line designed to keep the party girls going without fully flatlining the next day. Let's just say, he brings the aforementioned "science" to the questionable "art" that our hosts put on display.
Expect talk of pre-drug drugs, post-drug drugs, MDMA “Sherpa” duties, calorie-burning dance floor cardio, and one unforgettable mushroom trip that had Bisq-it asking, “Did I just shit myself?” (spoiler: he did not).
Whether you’re a weekend warrior, a festival lifer, or just here for the feral confessions, this episode is your guide to bending without breaking.
Warning: Side effects include sudden urges to dance until sunrise, text your dealer like a project manager, and maybe — just maybe — treat your liver with a little respect.
***
Interested in trying Soft Landings? Use promo code "FERAL" at checkout for $10 off your purchase!
Visit Feralationship.com for more episode fun!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I got something now to get the people on the floor.
All right, welcome back to our new and returning friends to
fair relationship. I'm Pete.
And I'm Biscuit. Biscuit, how the fuck are you
doing? You know, Pete, I'm, I'm doing
(00:23):
all right. I've been a little bit, a little
bit exhausted. My sleeping schedule has been a
mess. I went on a trip not too long
ago. Oh, yes, yes.
Yes. In fact, we'll hear later from
somebody I spoke to on that trip.
And it was a long journey. We're talking across the
International Dateline and you know, Biscuit needs some bedtime
(00:47):
and I'm so I've been a little fucked up from that, but we're
here. We're doing it.
We've got the Adderall prescription.
She's praying and helping. Yes, yes, yeah.
Making her way through. Yes, yes, See honey.
Sometimes you just need a littlehelp from our little, our, our
little friends, Addison, if you will.
Yes, I have some friends that that's what they, that's what
they'll say they'll be like. Oh, if we need something to
(01:07):
like, keep going through the evening, we have to invite our
friend Addison. Yes.
OK, quick side quest. So I have a bunch of friends who
are big fans of Addison Rae. Oh.
Sure, and have you heard what her groupies are called?
Oh no, I haven't. Oh my God, they're called
racists like. I'm sorry.
(01:28):
I don't know if that's like Addison Ray, like officially
branded, but it's Rae like it's of course, like sure, Matt and
Jess, sure, but girls, I think Ithink we've got to, you know, we
got to go back to Michelle Obama.
Like when they go low, we go high.
We don't need to be going. I was.
Just going to say I think I. Think we'd be more creative I
need. To go back to the drawing board
on that, like let's have a creative jam session.
(01:49):
Whiteboard it out to anything. Anything but that.
Just any board color really, because we're very inclusive
here. Well, I, I feel you.
My sleep schedule has been like,it's so strange.
I just had some travel. It wasn't anything nearer as
time changeable as yours. Mine was just like a few hours
(02:09):
and it was just for a few days and then I was back.
But like even that, I was wakingup at like 4.
AMI was ready to go to sleep by like 6 or 7:00 PM and I'm like,
what is going on? And then I came back home.
It's just sleep is a funny thing.
And I'm with you, Biscuit. I love my sleep.
I know girl, you carry your eye mask and everything honey.
I sure do. That's right.
(02:31):
We sure. Do I know this?
I know this. I bet you on travel my.
Earplugs my IMAX for sure. All the things.
All the things anyways. Whoa.
Love it? Let's.
Get this show rolling. As is tradition, I'll go get our
little kettle going. Miss Ferrell Faucet.
We'll open up that faucet, get that kettle boiling piping hot,
and then we'll spill the tea on today's episode.
Can't. Wait, I'm looking forward to it.
(02:57):
OK, Biscuit, I've had like a change what we've talked about
this like I went through a big move that has been stressful
enough. I don't want to talk about it.
Things are happening, but it's fine.
We're slowly moving into our newreality and day-to-day.
But I would say I was accustomedto like we would go out, we
would do whatever we were doing.Maybe there would be some drinks
(03:18):
or what have you, but I feel like I have been just drinking a
lot more recently, like with professional things, with
personal things. And I think it's like new place
trying to meet new people, like trying to edge off right.
Oh. Yeah, but liquid courage.
I have not drank as much as I have in the last probably two to
three weeks in months in my poorlittle dainty body.
(03:43):
Your liver's like girl, I'm not used to processing this shit,
what is this? Yeah, she's like, what are you
doing? And I like woke up this one of
the last weekends on Sunday and I was like.
OK, Al alcohol hangovers like are the worst.
You know, this is where actuallyif I'm going to drink, I
appreciate day drinking. So I have like the ability to
(04:07):
just recover over the course of the day, continue to sweat it
out or eat a lot of shitty food to just soak it all up.
That's when I tell myself. I'm with that.
All that shit. I feel you.
I feel like as I, I went throughthese, maybe like it was more
like a roller coaster of experiences with alcohol for me
really, because bitty old biscuit here was a was a frat
boy, you know, so I, you know, so I drank my ass off in college
(04:30):
and then I felt like, you know, I would go out and do my vodka
soda blitzes at, you know, just like go crazy every week when,
you know, when you're 22, you can process that shit of.
Course, right? But girl, girl is biscuits been
aging the the recovery time has been a bitch.
As biscuits been rising, you know, as as you've been rising
(04:52):
in the oven, you know, Yes, yes.Yes, Oh my God, but holy shit,
yeah, 'cause now she's getting burnt, right?
She's getting burnt by this motherfucking nights out with
alcohol. No, I don't.
And and I feel, I feel like in the pandemic, I also reached a
new high as most people did, right.
I feel like we, I learned that Ihit a 2 day hangover at 2 1/2
(05:13):
bottles of wine. I don't recommend that.
Sure, I don't recommend that. Yeah, but Yep, Yep.
And everybody's like, oh, biscuits going a a soon.
You better be, honey. Ever since I've been dabbling in
more of extracurricular or recreational activities, if you
will, I have been stepping away from alcohol.
(05:36):
And I got to say, you know, the recovery is a little bit
different. It's different.
They're suffering. Yes, it does.
It hits different. It does.
And it's, I feel like you're like beg borrowing and stealing
from your future self in whatever capacity you choose to
do. You know what I mean?
Like whether it's drinking, whether it's something else like
you, you're choosing your adventure. 100% And it's like if
(05:58):
you can't plan for that, oh, butI want to go back to a point you
made you, you dropped the like networking stuff like alcohol is
very much like an approved work activity, right?
And I get it. You know that loosey goosey, the
liquid courage they call it right?
But bitch, bitch, can we bring back coke from the 80s like that
(06:21):
was that was like a mainstay, A mainstay like Wall Street
financial like any any other. I feel like any office party,
you know, let it snow, honey, let it snow.
Let it snow, Let it snow. Yeah, but but.
That worked at that house down Boots.
Girl, because, you know, you were focused, you were getting
shit done. Yeah, yeah.
(06:42):
House was spotless. Then the ledgers were all done
and spotless. You know, it's like, man,
anyway, I will say because I know our kettle's going to be
going off here soon. You know, recovery is obviously
a pain in the ass. And then it's a journey no
matter what you choose for your journey that evening.
Yeah. Do you have any best practices?
Like do you have any like hangover cures that you kind of
(07:04):
go to? Oh.
Gosh, so I would say like depending on my journey, right?
So if I'm going to be drinking, I really, really try as soon as
I get home. And I mean, obviously best
practice would be if you can like put some water into to the
rotation, do that. I'm terrible about doing that,
so I'm not going to suggest it because I'm just terrible at
doing that. But I'll get home and chug as
(07:27):
much water as my body can take without having to pee throughout
the entire evening just because if we can flush it out and we
can get some water into the system, that's obviously going
to help help the hangover, you know, quite.
Literally, girl. Yeah.
And then all the other, you know, fun things like I feel
like just knowing exactly what you're going to do.
And I feel like each one kind ofhas its own repertoire.
(07:48):
You know, yeah, Yeah. Well, we're going to talk a
little bit about recovery here as it relates to those more
recreational activities. You know, my, my hangover.
I don't really have a cure. I don't really have a cure.
No, I know. I think it's just my alcoholism
to try to prevent it, you know? It is disdain.
Peak liver fitness constantly. Yep.
Keep flexing the muscle. But outside of that, no, it's
(08:10):
just I usually get a big old greasy big old sandwich the next
day. And yeah ## some vitamins.
Well, and I will, I will say like, as much as it sucks and
you feel like you're dying, likeI always just force myself out
of bed to do something right, like go and eat, go and like,
but if I just sit and I rot in bed or rot on the couch the
(08:31):
entire next day, that is death. And I want to, yeah, you know,
yeah. The lethargy of it all 100% yeah
yeah, so. Well anyway, I think I hear a
little bitch going off so. Yeah, and I'm excited to hear
about all this. Oh my gosh, yes.
So lots to unpack. A Little Biscuit interview
journey ahead I. Know love it.
(08:52):
I know, Bugle a bitch. Let's go here.
We go. Thank you so much for being
here. This is exciting, a great
opportunity on what many of our listeners will think to be the
other side of the world here in Sydney, Australia.
Very excited to be interviewing Zen with Soft Landings Co
(09:13):
founder. Would love to just hear a little
bit more about you. Thank you for having me.
It's really exciting to be here talking to you.
My name's Zen. I'm one of the three Co founders
of Soft Landings where we're based here in Australia, but
we're available now in the US I think that your listeners, some
of them may even already know about our brand like it's we
have a lot of crossover in our audience probably.
(09:34):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I, I'm actually one of
your customers. Yes, very much As a user of your
product, you know, I look forward to sharing some of my
experiences, but it's on the crossover and highly recommended
for our our listeners in the US.So basic background, Ronnie and
I, who have been friends for 10 years or so, we're both from
Australia. He and I have, you know, been
(09:54):
partying, using drugs, going to festivals since we were, you
know, growing up and doing this for more than 10 years now.
So we, we're both nerds also about supplements and drugs.
So we were always the guys at the festival with 20 different
bottles of supplements to try and feel better the next day and
also survive 5 to 6 day festivalusing drugs every day.
(10:17):
Yeah. So eventually we were sharing
those with our friends and eventually productized it and
it's doing really well. Well, clearly that must have
meant that your friends were like, well, shit, this is
working for me. So like, what were some of those
aha moments where you were out at festivals and people were
like, shit, can I tap that again?
Like, do you have more? Can I borrow that?
Like, what is your cocktail like?
I imagine there had to be those questions.
(10:38):
Yeah, so there were a few of those moments.
Ronnie and I were with our extended friend group at a
festival called Outlook in Croatia a few years ago, and we
had this like a cabin in the festival grounds.
And him and I and another friendall showed up with all these
supplements and we immediately found a cupboard in the cabin to
stash them all in, which became the supplement cupboard.
(10:59):
And everyone else was kind of like, what is that?
Like, what are you guys doing there?
So we just shared them with everyone and they were surprised
how well they survived the week.And that was one of those
moments where we thought, OK, that probably other people would
be interested in this as well. Well, that's awesome.
So I mean it sounds like you're a regular festival goer though
and and you guys recently or relatively recently, let's say
(11:19):
Co founded this company. You said it was about a year
old, correct? About a year ago, yeah.
Yeah. And obviously you've very
clearly, I think risen in competitive nature within the
category, which I feel like is only continuing to bloom and
blossom. Certainly I think too we've seen
and recently you may have heard in studies that have been shared
(11:41):
of like Generation Z drinking a lot less and partying a little
bit differently. And so I feel like this is a
perfect cultural intersection ofbehavior change with the
audience, while at the same timecoming into an area that has
been underdeveloped, under supported for a long, long time.
(12:01):
Yeah, I think this is kind of the perfect timing for this
product because we're in a moment where the younger
generations are drinking less, they're partying around the same
amount, I think, but they're using different things.
People are having a greater understanding of things like
therapeutic use of MDMA and other what we would consider
recreational drugs. And I think those clinical usage
(12:25):
and therapeutic understanding ofthose drugs is sort of
destigmatizing them in a way as well and making it something
that you can talk about more in a broader sense.
And people are also understanding that they're using
supplements for other things as well, and that supplements can
have certain benefits that they would have thought of before as
maybe like a bit kooky or something that you'd get more
from medicine. So yeah, there's many things
(12:47):
intercepting at the moment that I think contribute to the moment
we're having. Yeah, well tell me that how did
you come to find the cocktail ofthings that ended up turning
into soft landings in the long run, but perhaps was the
inspiration to unlock other opportunities and build a
festival and party more? Yeah.
(13:08):
Look, we were taking supplementsfor many years, but we we were
aware of other players in the space, particularly a company
called Happy Tuesdays and another one, it's a German
company called Supplemines that makes another similar product,
which has now gone off the market.
I'm not sure if they went out ofbusiness or they just stopped
making it. But we were users of these
(13:29):
products and we realized that look, they can be improved in
formulation, in format and in price because I have made
another supplement company before.
So I have some idea sort of likehow to formulate things, how to
manufacture things, sure. And yeah, we just kind of saw an
opportunity in the market and went for it.
Well, it sounds like it was the perfect blend of the nerd you
(13:50):
mentioned before and and this sense of like the party animal
that gets unlocked and it becomes a little bit more feral
on the weekends. Totally.
I'm a feral degenerate nerd. And This is why we're in good
company, my friend. I, I love it.
Yes, I think a lot of our listeners play by the mentality
of work hard, play hard, right? And I think this allows us to
(14:15):
play hard without sacrificing the work hard side of it.
Yeah, it definitely helps. You know, and I got to say in my
own personal experience, when I first tried Molly, I had a
friend who was my Sherpa, my guide for the evening of sorts,
who had done it before and was checking in on me, but also gave
me the like, all right, here's the post activity supplement you
(14:39):
take which. What was that?
It was 5 HTP. He also included magnesium.
I think for me, my stomach didn't always react very
positively to the magnesium, so I ended up not taking that in
the long run. OK.
However, five HTP was something that worked for me.
It became something that I perhaps like in the day or two
(15:01):
leading up to my night out, I would take and then, but not an
overabundance to ensure that there's not an over saturation
of serotonin creation and therefore a flood thereafter.
We don't need to drown out the planet, Noah's ark style.
And then I would leave out A5 HTP and a Xanax to go to sleep
(15:23):
and then some ibuprofen if my muscles were a little bit tired.
And that was what I called and what I referenced to I think in
our first season, I talked aboutmy pre drug drugs of things I
took before I went out to ensureI had a good time.
So those also may have included things like Cialis and Adderall
just to make sure like I maintained energy in all regards
(15:45):
of my adventures. For all the activities.
Exactly, I showed up for full participation at PE class.
Exactly, and then that I would always lay out my post drug
drugs so that when Biscuit came home after a long night, he
could thank past Biscuit for thethat and a full bottle of water
that was waiting for him. Right.
So that was my regiment, but there's so much more that soft
(16:10):
landings that your supplement offers.
They're partiers. So talk us through a little bit
more about the formulation because certainly 5 HTP and you
you guys talk about this on yourwebsite is a component, but it's
far from the only driver of postparty recovery or during party
recovery. You could even say especially if
you're on like a multi day festival activity.
(16:32):
Sure. So you can think about drugs as
like things that release pleasure chemicals in your brain
that you're like spending the the next few days worth of on
credit right now, you know, likeyou're taking out a high
interest loan of the pleasure chemicals that you were going to
feel for the next few days. All right now.
(16:52):
Yes. And those chemicals are made-up
of building blocks that exist inyour body that you can
supplement by taking something like soft landings.
So for example, if you're takingMolly, you're releasing a lot of
serotonin and dopamine. If you're using cocaine, mostly
dopamine, other drugs, mostly the same things, but you can
(17:12):
take the building blocks of those and some like for example
5 HTP for serotonin, tyrosine for dopamine and various other
neurotransmitter precursors. You can also take some other
things like black pepper extractto help with the bioavailability
of that and acetyl L carnitine and choline to help replenish
energy in your brain and body aswell.
(17:33):
So that it's basically a bunch of things that will help you
replenish the things that you'respending faster and also help
you with general recovery from fatigue with things like B
vitamins, alcohol, choline, and help with like relaxation with
things like magnesium glycinate.Yes, because I mean the latter,
(17:54):
which I said they're multiple different types of magnesium
compounds. Yeah, and they'll.
Have different effects. They exactly.
And I think that's probably where I went to Amazon and
ordered the wrong, the wrong type perhaps.
But I think the the combination,the formulation of it all
certainly helps to just provide everyone with almost like a
(18:16):
portfolio when they're, you know, ending or even beginning
in their night. And so actually that leads me to
another important question. How do you go about taking soft
landings? How do you go about addressing
your party activities? Because I mentioned I did my pre
drug drugs and my post drug drugs.
Do you take a similar approach? How what is soft landings
(18:39):
recommend? Any advice you have for our
listeners would be greatly appreciated.
Sure. So I mean I don't take pre drug
drugs really. I think in my experience, like
trying to preload with things like tyrosine or five HTP to
have like more there to spend hasn't yielded good results for
me personally. I take soft landings before I go
(19:00):
to bed and again when I wake up the morning after.
So when I'm doing a multi day vendor or a multi day festival,
I'll I'll do the same thing and I'll even sometimes take it in
the middle of the day if I know that I'm going to be not using
like Molly until late at night or something like that.
I will just address one thing that your listeners may have
heard about, which is serotonin syndrome.
So yeah, do you know about this?I've heard about it, yes.
(19:22):
So please. There's this medical condition
that can present itself when youreplenishing and spending
serotonin too fast to the point that you overloaded with it and
then your body stops producing it.
This is a really terrible thing to to have and is not always
treatable or curable in those that have it.
(19:43):
Oh shit, there's a common narrative on the Internet
especially that if you that there's a substantial risk of
serotonin syndrome when you combine or take too closely
together 5 HTP and MDMA. Look, I'm not a medical doctor
so this is just general advice, but my understanding is that
this is mostly a myth when not combined with antidepressant
(20:05):
drugs. So the big danger that you need
to be careful of with MDMA is combining it with SSRIs or any
kind of SSRI SNR is any of thesekinds of antidepressant drugs
that act on the serotonin system.
Now, for example, I wouldn't recommend this, but I take soft
landings like during the daytimein a festival when I know that
I'm going to be taking MDMA thatevening.
(20:26):
I would say generally speaking, the recommendation is take it
after the MDMA has worn off and don't take it that morning if
you're going to be using MDMA that day or that evening, Sure,
you know so. Give yourself a like say a 12
hour buffer or something. Please.
Yeah. And I'd say like also a pro tip
is like when you're at a multi day festival, try and have
different drugs to use on different days.
(20:47):
Yes, I think that is something that is so under spoken about.
You got to swap things out because different things pull on
different levers of happiness orthings that trigger happiness so
you can find and unlock different avenues and
adventures. Exactly.
And you know, hell, I've even looked at like my calendar of
events or like what dinner am I going to be having?
(21:09):
Like maybe that could even influence like a lighter dinner
might be better for him, like a Molly night for sure.
You know, whereas if I'm going to do coke, maybe it doesn't
matter as much. Can I mean, also maybe not, I
don't know. It just depends on the body,
right. And that's the other thing too.
Everybody's body. Reacts differently to
everything. Exactly.
So anything you try, I think youkind of need to ease into.
(21:31):
I've heard of some people use a notes app every now and then to
do this to almost like diary. What are the experiences or
feelings you have after certain types of situations related to
the use or ingestion of a certain drug or supplement of
sorts? Because then you can kind of
identify what are like the variables, the AB, you kind of
do an AB test of sorts on yourself.
(21:54):
And then from there, if once youkind of get a good sample size,
you almost can choose your own adventure of like the evening,
the activity is like the feelingyou want and coordinate your
plans accordingly. Yeah, so my other Co founder,
Toby, he actually in a very German way of him, of his, he
has a an app, I think it's the Psychonaut Wiki app on his phone
(22:15):
that actually lets you log what you've taken, how long it's been
between these different things and also how you felt after.
And it will like over time let you delve back into that and try
and gain some insight into the combinations and effects.
Yeah, I really don't like using my phone when I'm getting
cooked. Oh yeah, I don't like.
Screens and. My eyes don't necessarily
(22:36):
connect as well, but. You know, everyone's different,
so especially if this is something that you haven't been
doing for years and it's something you're still exploring
and you're sort of still learning, you don't have a good
intuition yet for how your body responds to different things.
I'd say trying to log them or diary them or like reflect in
some way, in a way that you can look back on when you're not
(22:57):
coming down or not high can be useful.
Yeah, well, I first of all, that's like the most German
thing I've ever heard. Of very German.
I mean, from the the engineeringkind of component of it, but
also that it's like hyper party drug related.
I was like, this is so spot on. Like, are we in Bergen right
now? I love it.
I love it. And Bergen is so much fun.
(23:20):
Oh my God. So I love that and I love this
concept. And for our listeners, we've
linked this app in our show notes and on our website.
See if you have questions, just check it out there.
We've got you covered, but I also wanted to kind of go back
and talk about like are there specific drugs or activities
(23:41):
that that soft landing specifically targets better or
supports better than other activities?
Definitely. So we actually have a whole
chart on our website about this if you're interested, everyone.
So there's certainly some drugs and activities that it works
better for than others, like they MDMA, cocaine, any kind of
stimulants, amphetamines or caffenones.
(24:03):
It's definitely works best for it helps with things like
alcohol and G to some degree, nowhere near to the degree that
it does for things like MDMA andcocaine.
Mostly just because the after effects of for example, alcohol
are mostly to do with acetaldehyde buildup and
dehydration. So you can easily acetaldehyde
(24:27):
buildup is a bit of a trickier 1and we actually have a product
in the pipeline that addresses that, but.
OK, we're going to see. Electrolytes, Electrolytes and
sleep are really the best thingsyou can do for alcohol and G
Yeah. Things like psychedelics and
ketamine, the after effects thatyou feel after those are more to
(24:48):
do with sleep loss than they areto do with, like, any kind of
after effect of the drug. So nothing can replace sleep.
Oh, absolutely. And one of the things you need
to understand about products like soft landings or any kind
of supplement is like, it cannotreplace sleep and food.
Yeah. So another tip that I've learned
from being a degenerate for a long time is like, when you're
in a long Bender, what you really need to do is sometimes
(25:10):
reflect and stop and like, eat. Yeah.
Like nutritious food and drink electrolytes if you're trying to
go for a few days at a festival or something like that, even
though you don't feel like it. Just thinking what can I get
right now that is like what foodtruck has something that is like
small enough that I'm not going to feel tired after eating it,
but nutrient dense, you know, like a, like a, a sigh bowl or a
(25:31):
burrito or something like that, you know?
I love that not. Chips and a burger.
Yes, I mean, I'm, I'm a big smoothie guy.
Smoothies are great. Yeah.
Like, you know, like. Berries and yogurt or something?
Yeah, nutrient dense. It's all the good stuff, the
protein, like all that stuff. So yes, exactly.
And I, I love too that you pointed out the electrolyte side
of things because even as you were talking about alcohol and
(25:54):
G, which ironically you never want to use those together,
folks. But they're very similar
actually in their effect on yourbody.
Exactly, and what's interesting,so with Molly, with MDMA it's
almost the inverse because a lotof times people will drink too
much water and they almost over hydrate in a way that causes
their body to be therefore over hydrated.
There's not enough salt and electrolytes in their body.
(26:16):
It actually causes your blood cells to expand and that could
in extreme cases lead to very serious facts.
But certainly if we can get ahead of that and address that,
which is like, you know, maybe replace that bottle of water
with a Gatorade. Look, I'd say it's not that easy
to like harm yourself by drinking too much water when you
of course, when you're rolling, unless you're like wrapping your
(26:38):
lips around a fire hydrant or something.
But it. Depends how cute he is honestly.
Exactly, you know, it depends, depends how wide you need to
open your mouth and the surrounded, I guess.
Look, I'd say it's more the extreme cases.
It's like, you know, if you're drinking water and
electrolysing, you're like, you know, did I have 3 servings or
five servings in the last? Like this is over analyzing.
(27:02):
As long as you're drinking some amount of electrolytes
throughout the night and you arehaving some consistent amount of
hydration, you're probably goingto be all right.
Yeah, but it's also if you've not been doing this and thinking
about this for a long time, it'salso sometimes easy to just
forget to drink water and or electrolytes and forget to eat.
Yeah, because your body's not asking you to do it.
(27:22):
Yeah, and then you'll certainly know tomorrow.
Oh yeah, I mean, absolutely. I gotta say too, like anytime I
go out and roll, there are many,many a night where I come home
and I haven't, I maybe not have had much to eat the day before
because I'm going to look good when I'm on the dance floor.
If this kid wants to bang it, belooking banging and then be
(27:42):
banging after, right? Or during, who knows.
I don't know. The dance floor can be a little
wild. However, you know, then I like
come home and I have this mentalbattle of, you know, if I don't,
if I'm alone and maybe if I brought my boyfriend home.
And we definitely have had thosemoments of like, should we eat?
We probably should eat, but thenyou don't.
You're just like, no, I don't want to stay skinny.
(28:04):
And I'm like, you know what? It's not a matter of like
staying skinny. It's like this will help your
muscles, it'll help your recovery, it'll help you feel
better. So that especially if you're
going to party the next day, youcan go out and keep the party
going. But also think about how many
calories you just burned in the last six hours.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean the number of times I've
had my Apple Watch be like, are you working out?
And I'm like, what kind of hiking am IQ like, I don't know.
(28:26):
Yeah, work bitch. And I do love that, though I
think that's we've also joked actually, actually on this show,
I love to go out and dance because I'm like, oh, I do feel
skinny. Like after a good night, a good
weekend. And again, by kind of having and
knowing how to choose your own adventure of how you need to
feel the next day. I think we talked about this in
(28:46):
season 2, like the party planning of it.
All right, I know I have a meeting in the morning.
Like I've regularly been out late on Sunday nights and I have
9:00 AM Monday morning meetings and I'm like, oh, but this is
like a really fun party and the DJ's just banging like I just
this is, it's going to be a fun night.
(29:07):
They're going to be a lot of sexy people out.
I want to go and make the best of this night.
All right, let's let's maybe notdo MDMA because I don't want to
necessarily feel as bad in the morning, but maybe I'll sample
some GD tonight, you know, and plan that way.
So my recovery might be a littlebit different or I can better
manage it based off of whatever I might have at home.
(29:29):
Sure. And certainly it'll feel a lot
better if I've got soft landingson on my side.
Yes. So one of the other things I
wanted to talk about was some ofthe differences with some of the
other supplements out. And you know, we can name
brands. We don't have to.
We can, but yeah. And I got to say one thing I did
love about your website is in the footer of the page where the
(29:50):
contact, the FAQ, all that you also right there have direct
links to be like, no, compare usto our competitors, like make
sure this is right for you. And at the same time, we have no
question or harm or or cause to hold back because this is just
our brand authentically. And I thought that was so cool
and such a statement about your brand and the confidence you
(30:11):
have in it. Thank you, Biscuit.
That's a really that's an amazing compliment.
Look, when we started this, we were very direct about the fact
that we wanted to have the best product on the market and we
were comparing ourselves to the other brands that existed.
So there's nothing to hide there.
And I'd say like we want to talkabout the other products on the
(30:31):
market. The only serious competitor in
the space is Happy Tuesdays at this point.
They actually have a pretty goodproduct in my opinion.
I think their branding is reallygood.
The quality of the ingredients is really good too, but they're
limited in a couple of ways. So their product is in capsules,
and there's only so many capsules that someone wants to
take when they're coming down. Oh yeah.
(30:53):
So they're physically limited byspace and how much actual active
ingredients they can pack into like 5 capsules or whatever it
is that they have. So look, I think that they do a
good job of deciding what to putthere, but we have a drink
format and we can have 4 grams of powder in there, so we can
actually fit more active ingredients per dose in a
(31:13):
serving than they can that way. Yeah.
The other thing is the elephant in the room with them is price.
Yeah, You know, it's like 6 lbs per dose, which I don't know
what that is in USD, probably like 988 dollars or something.
8-9 dollars, yeah. Something like that, which is
pretty expensive. And we were aware that we like
they're already a known brand and coming to the space, we
(31:36):
thought that we can make it in aformat that makes it cheap
enough that people, number one, have a bag of 20 of them and #2
don't think too much about handing them out to their
friends. That's going to be really good
word of mouth. And it has been.
So that's one of the reasons whyour pricing is the way it is.
And we also have it in the 20 pack format rather than selling
individual doses. Well, and I got to say I love
(31:59):
that as to my friends because there have been many a trip we
talked about at the start of season 2, a trip that we took to
Puerto Vallarta, Mexico where itwas for one of our friends
birthdays. Pete brought these little like
gift bags for everybody and it included like a hangover kit of
sorts. And with some of that included
(32:22):
things like I don't know, like the crystallite ice or crystal
crystal ice light or whatever the little like drink mixes are
that you put in with water like electrolyte.
Yeah. Various assortments.
What a nice friend. Yeah, it was nice.
You know, many people associate that with like the recovery from
alcohol and they don't think about the impact or the support
(32:43):
that they might need in other substance taking.
And so having something like this that you're just so easily
able to hand out is, is, I thinka game changer.
And yes, I think you're you're spot on with the capsules, like
especially at the end of the night.
Nobody wants to be swallowing 5 capsules and then just get home
from eating 4 pills and dancing for 8 hours.
(33:05):
Yeah, but if you can just mix a little supplement into your
water and actually and like I gotta say, the flavour is pretty
good. Well, it's as good as we can
make it given the amount of active ingredients.
Yeah, It's not going to be like,you know, the US Southern
lemonade or sweet iced tea. Yeah, yeah, let's be real.
Like it's not a fruit punch. No, but but it is enough that
(33:28):
you are very comfortable consuming it in in a period of
time where you're like, I just need to slam this and go to bed.
That's all we need. We were very aware of the fact
that when people are taking this, they're probably going to
be feeling a bit fragile, so we need it to taste not like
something that you really need to chug and hold down, like
something that tastes all right.Yes, exactly I I love that.
I think that makes it way easierfor all the.
(33:52):
Stomach, you could say. Quite.
Easy. Yes, quite simply.
Quite simply. So pivoting momentarily, yes.
I'd love to just hear a little bit more about your feral side
of life. Like what?
Yeah. So obviously you've had enough
to inspire soft landings. What was there like a hangover
or a come down from some weekendthat was like, Jesus, I need to
(34:17):
do something about this or. Or was the catalyst of like I
absolutely need to stock back upin my supplements and led to, I
guess, you know, a domino falling in the the light of many
dominoes that led to soft landings?
Look, I'd say there wasn't a moment, but it's been like how
I've gotten from there to here is more like just as I've gotten
(34:38):
older, a lot of people when they're young, they party more
and as they get older, they party less.
I've kind of gone the other way.Just like when I was like 18,
I'd go out and have a big night,but I'd be so ruined for the
next couple of days that I wouldn't do it all weekend.
But as I've gotten older, I've definitely gotten better at
understanding how to listen to my body, understanding how to
not just supplements, but like take a Xanax to go to sleep, you
(35:01):
know, like have some G when I'm hungover in the morning, you
know, like eat nutritious food, use blackout blinds and sleep
masks and sleeping tablets to then get enough sleep that I can
keep going the next day. But I mean, my Co founder Toby
and me, we go to a festival in Albania every year called and
unity explorations. It's a six day festival.
(35:21):
So over the years we've gotten better at surviving that.
And like I'll like with my like my supplement stack and my post
drug drugs, which I can talk about actually go beyond soft
landings. Sure.
But look, I'm still standing on the last day at the after party
at midday, cooked out of my mindand kind of walking away from
look, I mean, I'll need a coupleof days of just crashing in an
(35:44):
Airbnb, watching Netflix and sleeping.
But compared with most of the people that I see around me that
actually go that hard for that long, Yeah, it makes a massive
difference. So a couple of things that I can
recommend or not necessarily recommend, but just talk about
like my post drug, drugs as you just say, something to replenish
(36:04):
NAD like either a NNN supplement.
So NAD is for those who don't know, a source of energy at the
cellular level in your body. It's something that every cell
uses and requires for energy at every moment.
So if you immediately turned your NAD level in your body to
0, you would die in, I believe. Don't quite mean this, but I
(36:26):
believe a few minutes, yeah. We don't need that.
And NAD isn't something you can take in a capsule form, but you
can take a precursor like a likewith for example 5 HTP called
NMN or you can get NAD injections or infusions.
Oh, OK. And you can take them.
They even come in like an Ozempic pen format.
Now if you want to buy them, no shit.
They're pretty expensive, but they make a massive difference.
(36:48):
Oh, I bet, yeah. Like, it acts on a completely
different pathway as something like soft landings with
replenishing the neurotransmitters.
But when you're talking about like, feeling better the next
day after or surviving 6 days ofdrug use, yeah, it's one of
those things in the toolkit. That's amazing.
I'm definitely going to need is do you need require a doctor to
prescribe something like that oris it just?
(37:10):
Depends. It depends in different
countries. So in the USI believe you can
just buy it online. Like I believe there's some
websites you can either get it from like peptide websites that
sell things like growth hormone precursors or psalms or things
that like bodybuilders would use.
Or you can get it from some likeonline, like the same kind of
places that you'd get like a weed card or like a ketamine
(37:34):
prescription or something like that, that just like prescribe
you something and just mail it out for you to dose yourself
with. Yeah, yeah.
I think that unless you're already someone that is
comfortable, like using peptidesor something like that, the
precursors like NMN are totally the easier route than trying to
figure out how to like do subcutaneous injections and all
this kind of stuff. Oh yeah.
(37:54):
But yeah, I mean, if you're already comfortable with that,
direct NAD works better. Wow.
I truly had no idea. This is like blowing this.
Is still pretty new stuff. All right, so you've heard it
here first, folks like, because I, I gotta say too, this is,
this is a topic we don't talk a lot about in the US and we're
really probably most. Places.
Yeah. And it's really unfortunate
(38:16):
because it prevents folks from being able to go out, have a
good time safely. Look, I mean, one of the angles
that we have about this, that's probably the main angle is that
we like Ronnie, Toby and me get a lot of, I could, I guess you
could say positive mental healthbenefits from, for example,
doing MDMA with our friends and like breaking those barriers
(38:38):
down and like spending time together in, for example, I, I
don't have an office job, so I don't have like a water cooler
or, or an Expo to go to. And one of the places that I
meet people and socialize with strangers is music festivals.
And being able to do that in a way that doesn't make me feel
like down and depressed or like have anxiety or something like
(39:00):
that for a few days after I think is like a real win for our
mental health. Oh I totally agree.
I think the appropriate use of drugs recreationally in a way
that can allow you to unlock feelings that you might have
otherwise suppressed with your friends, with your family.
I think I was talking to you right before we kick things off
(39:21):
here, about the time I was a Sherpa for my sister the first
time she tried MDMA. And for our listeners, a part
about being a good Sherpa is always kind of setting
expectations or feelings or experiences they might have
during that experience over the course of time.
And one of the things I told herwas I was like, hey girl, just,
(39:45):
I just want you to know you're going to feel a lot of feelings.
It's going to be a lot of a lot of really good and potentially
intense. And I just want you to know
there will be a moment during the night when you come up to me
and you just say, oh, Biscuit, Ijust love you so much.
And I shit you not like 2 hours later, here she was being like,
(40:07):
she goes, Biscuit, it's not the Molly I want you to know.
And I was like. Sure, girl, sure.
It was just priceless. But I, I do love that.
And we, we had such a great sibling conversation after that
where it really did in many waysunlock.
I don't know. I don't know if I'd necessarily
call it barriers, but perhaps any fog that might have been in
(40:31):
a glass through the window, it just completely wiped it away.
And we felt comfortable seeing and speaking to each other in a,
in a freer and different way. And that was magical.
And I just really think that having conversations like this
help other people unlock opportunities like that too.
For sure. I mean, that particular example
with your sister is one of thoseclassic things where like people
(40:54):
have been talking about the pseudo therapeutic effects of
MDMA where they can like, you know, breakdown barriers, talk,
have uncomfortable conversations, talk to people in
a more open way has been, I guess not taken seriously by the
medical field for like such a long time.
And now recently since these studies about like using MDMA in
a therapeutic context with PTSD and all this stuff and helping
(41:17):
people open up and talk about their traumas.
Obviously doing it at the club with your friends is not the
same as doing it in a therapeutic context.
But like we can see some of those same things happening
here, you know, where we can break down the barriers with
each other. We can be more open and
communicate in a more free and genuine way.
Sometimes being mindful of the fact that like you don't always
(41:40):
feel the same way about the things that you say when you
cook and you may just say tomorrow.
But like, if you can get to a place where you feel vulnerable,
comfortable with vulnerability enough to like have certain
conversations and say certain things to people, that can be a
real win. Yeah, I mean, as the song goes,
release your inhibitions, you know, feel the pain on your scan
girls. Like it's just I totally.
One other thing I was going to say, and this is kind of
(42:01):
completely off the topic of drugs, but maybe more culturally
related. You know a lot of what we're
talking about here, the use of recreational drugs, or we've
called them in the past, extracurricular activities for
your evening. But in many of these cases,
you're out and you're experiencing things communally,
right? You're generally doing these
(42:21):
with other people. So then you're unlocking a
shared experience. But on top of that, a lot of
this, as we've talked about here, all of these experiences
are taking place at festivals, at clubs generally where you're
out dancing, you're engaging with music, you're engaging
within the rhythm of like, not just the music, but of the
people. And you look across cultures,
(42:43):
across humanity. Dancing is always a part of it,
always. And even outside of the the
extracurriculars, but even for our sober friends, you're
letting loose. You're unlocking something
fundamentally human in a way. It is.
And look, just on that, like rhythm and dancing and movement
have been something that we've been doing as a species for,
(43:03):
like, all of recorded history, to bring ourselves together even
when we were living in tribes. Yeah.
You know, something that tribes have been doing for all of
recorded time is like banging sticks together to make a beat
and moving their bodies togetherand dancing.
Yes, and many of those tribes often like across cultures,
medicine people, yes, they did like think about South American
(43:24):
cultures with ayahuasca drugs, psychedelics especially,
especially. I mean, gosh, the first time I
did shrimps, I remember I tripped so hard.
I joke with my friends who askedme about it.
They were like, how was it? And I say I lived 84 years in.
Six hours. And there are just so many
hilarious stories. I can specifically recall this.
(43:47):
It was the day Trump in his first term, Oh my God, was in
the hospital with COVID and there was threat that he may
pass away because of it because he was older.
And I remember I would come out of my trip and for those that
haven't perhaps had as heavy have a shrooms trip that I
certainly did that was much moreof a religious experience.
(44:09):
You go through like 30 to maybe 60 minute quote trips like these
waves where you're like in and out.
Were you somewhere else? Yes, I totally I kind of related
to like I would come up for air like in the water and then I
would go back underwater again that's.
A really good analogy. And so there were these moments
throughout that day. And this is how I remember
because I would, I would come back up and I'd be like, and my
(44:30):
friends like, are you okay? And I was like, did Trump die?
And they're like, no. And I was like, okay.
Back. In onto another trip.
It was just hilarious but I remember my last trip as I'm
like laying on the ground lookedat my friend and I go did I just
shit myself and he was like no you didn't.
I was like okay, thank God and he guys bitch.
(44:51):
I know it can be a little rough because but remember religions
were born on this shit and I waslike, you're so right.
It just shows though that this isn't just a now thing.
This has been an always thing, yes.
We're just now able to be smarter about it and safer, yes.
I mean, are there any kind of like best practices, tips,
tricks that we haven't already discussed, little knowledge like
(45:12):
to sprinkle some fairy dust on our listeners with?
One thing I'll say is I think that there's really something to
trying to use drugs to enhance feelings you're already feeling
rather than trying to feel something that you're not
feeling already. So I.
Love that for. Example, if you're not in a good
mood, an ecstasy tablet isn't going to fix that.
It's just going to make you either.
(45:32):
You're either going to force it and then you're going to feel
worse the next day when you're feeling you come down, or you're
just going to feel anxious rather than euphoric.
And if you're feeling down, getting drunk isn't going to
make you. Yeah.
You know, like, it's very tempting to try and use drugs to
suppress feelings and to, like, put up a facade if you're maybe
not feeling social some night orsomething like that.
Like if you're out and dancing to music and you're having a
(45:54):
good time, MDMA is going to makeyou have an even better time.
If you're in a sexual situation where it's like hot and good and
having a good time, like G is going to lubricate those gears
and bring out the sexy feeling, you know?
But absolutely. If.
You're in a bad mood, you're feeling depressed, like having G
is not going to make you feel better in the long term.
You're not going to think back and think, oh, that's a that was
(46:16):
a good idea in like a week from now.
So I think there's really something to understanding how
you're feeling in the moment andthen trying to use drugs to
enhance the feelings that you'rehaving rather than try to
conjure something that isn't already there.
I think that's sage advice. Like very, very wise.
(46:39):
And drugs, recreational, pharmaceutical or otherwise, are
not going. Underground pharmacy, yeah.
Yeah, right. Yeah, those extracurriculars,
right. None of those are going to
replace solid mental Wellness and doing the work at home,
doing the work with a professional who can help guide
(46:59):
you and doing the work with yourfriends.
And, and in many ways, as we've already spoken about today,
taking and the use of drugs and the common experiences can help
you unlock greater feelings withthose people.
But it it doesn't replace them and it doesn't create them.
And I think that is a huge take away because if you need that
(47:19):
support, you should go seek it out because again, you will only
unlock your true self in those moments, whether that's happy or
sad. Yes, that's right.
And I'll just say my psychologist gave me some really
good advice one time that stuck with me through the years was
that if you feel like there's some work you need to do on
yourself, you can't do it by yourself.
(47:40):
Like there's no, there is no self without like sometimes we
have this idea like, oh, you know, I'll go find a
relationship or I'll go get a get better friends once I've
done the work by myself and I can like go give a better
version of myself to them. But like the self exists in
relation to the other. And it's through these
relationships and this this relating that we do with other
people that we, we reflect and like use those relationships
(48:01):
like a mirror, yes, and not for.Lines.
Not a mirror for lines, yeah. Sure, sure.
Yes, I mean we need those as well.
Absolutely, mind you. Yes, I totally, I totally agree.
And I think that that's really, really wise advice.
It's. One of the things that stuck
with me through the years. One of the things my therapist
(48:21):
told me too is it's you can't work for the once this happens
once I achieve that because the goal post is going to continue
it. Never does you never get there
you. Never get there.
And that's why it's about livingin the moment.
It's about embracing who you arebecause who you are is
beautiful. You got to know that listeners
like no matter how you identify,no matter who you are, you know,
(48:42):
whether you're straight or queer, whether you're dancing or
just wanting to to sit and have a cocktail at the bar, it
doesn't matter so long as we're all there to support one
another. And as we like to say on the
show, be the party you want to see in the world that's.
A great one which. Really.
Should I'm like, come on, Muhammad Gandhi, you like?
To use that, yeah. Please do with pride to.
(49:04):
Tell people that when I'm cookedon the dance floor.
Yes, and it's so true because ifwe that organically will foster
a better community, it's kind oflike the golden rule of partying
almost right? So if we can all support one
another inherently, we're going to build a stronger and safer
community. We just so appreciate whatever
what happened. You've been on the show, so
thank you again, but also for what you're contributing to the
(49:27):
community through soft landings.And you know, I think again, the
education, the rawness that yourbrand also brings is truly
authentic and is exactly what our wider party festival, Feral
community needs, you know, So thank you.
And again, we just appreciate having you on the show.
(49:47):
Thanks Biscuit, that means a lot.
It's been a pleasure being here and we have a discount code for
your listeners. Amazing.
If anyone wants to buy soft landings, they can go to our
website softlandings.com and usethe discount code Ferrell to get
$10 off OH. My God, we fucking love this.
Yes, no, we love that. So that code is Feral.
FERAL on softlandings.com for your discount code.
(50:11):
So once again, Zen, thank you somuch for being here.
We greatly appreciate it and can't wait to see out at the
next festival and on the dance floor.
You will see me on the dance floor, don't worry.
Amazing. Thanks again.
Thank you. Well, with that, from our fair
relationship to yours, I'm Pete.And I'm Biscuit.
And remember. Have fun, get fucked and get
(50:33):
Ferrell.
I got something now to get the people on the floor.
All right, welcome back to our new and returning friends to
fair relationship. I'm Pete.
And I'm Biscuit. Biscuit, how the fuck are you
doing? You know, Pete, I'm, I'm doing
(00:23):
all right. I've been a little bit, a little
bit exhausted. My sleeping schedule has been a
mess. I went on a trip not too long
ago. Oh, yes, yes.
Yes. In fact, we'll hear later from
somebody I spoke to on that trip.
And it was a long journey. We're talking across the
International Dateline and you know, Biscuit needs some bedtime
(00:47):
and I'm so I've been a little fucked up from that, but we're
here. We're doing it.
We've got the Adderall prescription.
She's praying and helping. Yes, yes, yeah.
Making her way through. Yes, yes, See honey.
Sometimes you just need a littlehelp from our little, our, our
little friends, Addison, if you will.
Yes, I have some friends that that's what they, that's what
they'll say they'll be like. Oh, if we need something to
(01:07):
like, keep going through the evening, we have to invite our
friend Addison. Yes.
OK, quick side quest. So I have a bunch of friends who
are big fans of Addison Rae. Oh.
Sure, and have you heard what her groupies are called?
Oh no, I haven't. Oh my God, they're called
racists like. I'm sorry.
(01:28):
I don't know if that's like Addison Ray, like officially
branded, but it's Rae like it's of course, like sure, Matt and
Jess, sure, but girls, I think Ithink we've got to, you know, we
got to go back to Michelle Obama.
Like when they go low, we go high.
We don't need to be going. I was.
Just going to say I think I. Think we'd be more creative I
need. To go back to the drawing board
on that, like let's have a creative jam session.
(01:49):
Whiteboard it out to anything. Anything but that.
Just any board color really, because we're very inclusive
here. Well, I, I feel you.
My sleep schedule has been like,it's so strange.
I just had some travel. It wasn't anything nearer as
time changeable as yours. Mine was just like a few hours
(02:09):
and it was just for a few days and then I was back.
But like even that, I was wakingup at like 4.
AMI was ready to go to sleep by like 6 or 7:00 PM and I'm like,
what is going on? And then I came back home.
It's just sleep is a funny thing.
And I'm with you, Biscuit. I love my sleep.
I know girl, you carry your eye mask and everything honey.
I sure do. That's right.
(02:31):
We sure. Do I know this?
I know this. I bet you on travel my.
Earplugs my IMAX for sure. All the things.
All the things anyways. Whoa.
Love it? Let's.
Get this show rolling. As is tradition, I'll go get our
little kettle going. Miss Ferrell Faucet.
We'll open up that faucet, get that kettle boiling piping hot,
and then we'll spill the tea on today's episode.
Can't. Wait, I'm looking forward to it.
(02:57):
OK, Biscuit, I've had like a change what we've talked about
this like I went through a big move that has been stressful
enough. I don't want to talk about it.
Things are happening, but it's fine.
We're slowly moving into our newreality and day-to-day.
But I would say I was accustomedto like we would go out, we
would do whatever we were doing.Maybe there would be some drinks
(03:18):
or what have you, but I feel like I have been just drinking a
lot more recently, like with professional things, with
personal things. And I think it's like new place
trying to meet new people, like trying to edge off right.
Oh. Yeah, but liquid courage.
I have not drank as much as I have in the last probably two to
three weeks in months in my poorlittle dainty body.
(03:43):
Your liver's like girl, I'm not used to processing this shit,
what is this? Yeah, she's like, what are you
doing? And I like woke up this one of
the last weekends on Sunday and I was like.
OK, Al alcohol hangovers like are the worst.
You know, this is where actuallyif I'm going to drink, I
appreciate day drinking. So I have like the ability to
(04:07):
just recover over the course of the day, continue to sweat it
out or eat a lot of shitty food to just soak it all up.
That's when I tell myself. I'm with that.
All that shit. I feel you.
I feel like as I, I went throughthese, maybe like it was more
like a roller coaster of experiences with alcohol for me
really, because bitty old biscuit here was a was a frat
boy, you know, so I, you know, so I drank my ass off in college
(04:30):
and then I felt like, you know, I would go out and do my vodka
soda blitzes at, you know, just like go crazy every week when,
you know, when you're 22, you can process that shit of.
Course, right? But girl, girl is biscuits been
aging the the recovery time has been a bitch.
As biscuits been rising, you know, as as you've been rising
(04:52):
in the oven, you know, Yes, yes.Yes, Oh my God, but holy shit,
yeah, 'cause now she's getting burnt, right?
She's getting burnt by this motherfucking nights out with
alcohol. No, I don't.
And and I feel, I feel like in the pandemic, I also reached a
new high as most people did, right.
I feel like we, I learned that Ihit a 2 day hangover at 2 1/2
(05:13):
bottles of wine. I don't recommend that.
Sure, I don't recommend that. Yeah, but Yep, Yep.
And everybody's like, oh, biscuits going a a soon.
You better be, honey. Ever since I've been dabbling in
more of extracurricular or recreational activities, if you
will, I have been stepping away from alcohol.
(05:36):
And I got to say, you know, the recovery is a little bit
different. It's different.
They're suffering. Yes, it does.
It hits different. It does.
And it's, I feel like you're like beg borrowing and stealing
from your future self in whatever capacity you choose to
do. You know what I mean?
Like whether it's drinking, whether it's something else like
you, you're choosing your adventure. 100% And it's like if
(05:58):
you can't plan for that, oh, butI want to go back to a point you
made you, you dropped the like networking stuff like alcohol is
very much like an approved work activity, right?
And I get it. You know that loosey goosey, the
liquid courage they call it right?
But bitch, bitch, can we bring back coke from the 80s like that
(06:21):
was that was like a mainstay, A mainstay like Wall Street
financial like any any other. I feel like any office party,
you know, let it snow, honey, let it snow.
Let it snow, Let it snow. Yeah, but but.
That worked at that house down Boots.
Girl, because, you know, you were focused, you were getting
shit done. Yeah, yeah.
(06:42):
House was spotless. Then the ledgers were all done
and spotless. You know, it's like, man,
anyway, I will say because I know our kettle's going to be
going off here soon. You know, recovery is obviously
a pain in the ass. And then it's a journey no
matter what you choose for your journey that evening.
Yeah. Do you have any best practices?
Like do you have any like hangover cures that you kind of
(07:04):
go to? Oh.
Gosh, so I would say like depending on my journey, right?
So if I'm going to be drinking, I really, really try as soon as
I get home. And I mean, obviously best
practice would be if you can like put some water into to the
rotation, do that. I'm terrible about doing that,
so I'm not going to suggest it because I'm just terrible at
doing that. But I'll get home and chug as
(07:27):
much water as my body can take without having to pee throughout
the entire evening just because if we can flush it out and we
can get some water into the system, that's obviously going
to help help the hangover, you know, quite.
Literally, girl. Yeah.
And then all the other, you know, fun things like I feel
like just knowing exactly what you're going to do.
And I feel like each one kind ofhas its own repertoire.
(07:48):
You know, yeah, Yeah. Well, we're going to talk a
little bit about recovery here as it relates to those more
recreational activities. You know, my, my hangover.
I don't really have a cure. I don't really have a cure.
No, I know. I think it's just my alcoholism
to try to prevent it, you know? It is disdain.
Peak liver fitness constantly. Yep.
Keep flexing the muscle. But outside of that, no, it's
(08:10):
just I usually get a big old greasy big old sandwich the next
day. And yeah ## some vitamins.
Well, and I will, I will say like, as much as it sucks and
you feel like you're dying, likeI always just force myself out
of bed to do something right, like go and eat, go and like,
but if I just sit and I rot in bed or rot on the couch the
(08:31):
entire next day, that is death. And I want to, yeah, you know,
yeah. The lethargy of it all 100% yeah
yeah, so. Well anyway, I think I hear a
little bitch going off so. Yeah, and I'm excited to hear
about all this. Oh my gosh, yes.
So lots to unpack. A Little Biscuit interview
journey ahead I. Know love it.
(08:52):
I know, Bugle a bitch. Let's go here.
We go. Thank you so much for being
here. This is exciting, a great
opportunity on what many of our listeners will think to be the
other side of the world here in Sydney, Australia.
Very excited to be interviewing Zen with Soft Landings Co
(09:13):
founder. Would love to just hear a little
bit more about you. Thank you for having me.
It's really exciting to be here talking to you.
My name's Zen. I'm one of the three Co founders
of Soft Landings where we're based here in Australia, but
we're available now in the US I think that your listeners, some
of them may even already know about our brand like it's we
have a lot of crossover in our audience probably.
(09:34):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I, I'm actually one of
your customers. Yes, very much As a user of your
product, you know, I look forward to sharing some of my
experiences, but it's on the crossover and highly recommended
for our our listeners in the US.So basic background, Ronnie and
I, who have been friends for 10 years or so, we're both from
Australia. He and I have, you know, been
(09:54):
partying, using drugs, going to festivals since we were, you
know, growing up and doing this for more than 10 years now.
So we, we're both nerds also about supplements and drugs.
So we were always the guys at the festival with 20 different
bottles of supplements to try and feel better the next day and
also survive 5 to 6 day festivalusing drugs every day.
(10:17):
Yeah. So eventually we were sharing
those with our friends and eventually productized it and
it's doing really well. Well, clearly that must have
meant that your friends were like, well, shit, this is
working for me. So like, what were some of those
aha moments where you were out at festivals and people were
like, shit, can I tap that again?
Like, do you have more? Can I borrow that?
Like, what is your cocktail like?
I imagine there had to be those questions.
(10:38):
Yeah, so there were a few of those moments.
Ronnie and I were with our extended friend group at a
festival called Outlook in Croatia a few years ago, and we
had this like a cabin in the festival grounds.
And him and I and another friendall showed up with all these
supplements and we immediately found a cupboard in the cabin to
stash them all in, which became the supplement cupboard.
(10:59):
And everyone else was kind of like, what is that?
Like, what are you guys doing there?
So we just shared them with everyone and they were surprised
how well they survived the week.And that was one of those
moments where we thought, OK, that probably other people would
be interested in this as well. Well, that's awesome.
So I mean it sounds like you're a regular festival goer though
and and you guys recently or relatively recently, let's say
(11:19):
Co founded this company. You said it was about a year
old, correct? About a year ago, yeah.
Yeah. And obviously you've very
clearly, I think risen in competitive nature within the
category, which I feel like is only continuing to bloom and
blossom. Certainly I think too we've seen
and recently you may have heard in studies that have been shared
(11:41):
of like Generation Z drinking a lot less and partying a little
bit differently. And so I feel like this is a
perfect cultural intersection ofbehavior change with the
audience, while at the same timecoming into an area that has
been underdeveloped, under supported for a long, long time.
(12:01):
Yeah, I think this is kind of the perfect timing for this
product because we're in a moment where the younger
generations are drinking less, they're partying around the same
amount, I think, but they're using different things.
People are having a greater understanding of things like
therapeutic use of MDMA and other what we would consider
recreational drugs. And I think those clinical usage
(12:25):
and therapeutic understanding ofthose drugs is sort of
destigmatizing them in a way as well and making it something
that you can talk about more in a broader sense.
And people are also understanding that they're using
supplements for other things as well, and that supplements can
have certain benefits that they would have thought of before as
maybe like a bit kooky or something that you'd get more
from medicine. So yeah, there's many things
(12:47):
intercepting at the moment that I think contribute to the moment
we're having. Yeah, well tell me that how did
you come to find the cocktail ofthings that ended up turning
into soft landings in the long run, but perhaps was the
inspiration to unlock other opportunities and build a
festival and party more? Yeah.
(13:08):
Look, we were taking supplementsfor many years, but we we were
aware of other players in the space, particularly a company
called Happy Tuesdays and another one, it's a German
company called Supplemines that makes another similar product,
which has now gone off the market.
I'm not sure if they went out ofbusiness or they just stopped
making it. But we were users of these
(13:29):
products and we realized that look, they can be improved in
formulation, in format and in price because I have made
another supplement company before.
So I have some idea sort of likehow to formulate things, how to
manufacture things, sure. And yeah, we just kind of saw an
opportunity in the market and went for it.
Well, it sounds like it was the perfect blend of the nerd you
(13:50):
mentioned before and and this sense of like the party animal
that gets unlocked and it becomes a little bit more feral
on the weekends. Totally.
I'm a feral degenerate nerd. And This is why we're in good
company, my friend. I, I love it.
Yes, I think a lot of our listeners play by the mentality
of work hard, play hard, right? And I think this allows us to
(14:15):
play hard without sacrificing the work hard side of it.
Yeah, it definitely helps. You know, and I got to say in my
own personal experience, when I first tried Molly, I had a
friend who was my Sherpa, my guide for the evening of sorts,
who had done it before and was checking in on me, but also gave
me the like, all right, here's the post activity supplement you
(14:39):
take which. What was that?
It was 5 HTP. He also included magnesium.
I think for me, my stomach didn't always react very
positively to the magnesium, so I ended up not taking that in
the long run. OK.
However, five HTP was something that worked for me.
It became something that I perhaps like in the day or two
(15:01):
leading up to my night out, I would take and then, but not an
overabundance to ensure that there's not an over saturation
of serotonin creation and therefore a flood thereafter.
We don't need to drown out the planet, Noah's ark style.
And then I would leave out A5 HTP and a Xanax to go to sleep
(15:23):
and then some ibuprofen if my muscles were a little bit tired.
And that was what I called and what I referenced to I think in
our first season, I talked aboutmy pre drug drugs of things I
took before I went out to ensureI had a good time.
So those also may have included things like Cialis and Adderall
just to make sure like I maintained energy in all regards
(15:45):
of my adventures. For all the activities.
Exactly, I showed up for full participation at PE class.
Exactly, and then that I would always lay out my post drug
drugs so that when Biscuit came home after a long night, he
could thank past Biscuit for thethat and a full bottle of water
that was waiting for him. Right.
So that was my regiment, but there's so much more that soft
(16:10):
landings that your supplement offers.
They're partiers. So talk us through a little bit
more about the formulation because certainly 5 HTP and you
you guys talk about this on yourwebsite is a component, but it's
far from the only driver of postparty recovery or during party
recovery. You could even say especially if
you're on like a multi day festival activity.
(16:32):
Sure. So you can think about drugs as
like things that release pleasure chemicals in your brain
that you're like spending the the next few days worth of on
credit right now, you know, likeyou're taking out a high
interest loan of the pleasure chemicals that you were going to
feel for the next few days. All right now.
(16:52):
Yes. And those chemicals are made-up
of building blocks that exist inyour body that you can
supplement by taking something like soft landings.
So for example, if you're takingMolly, you're releasing a lot of
serotonin and dopamine. If you're using cocaine, mostly
dopamine, other drugs, mostly the same things, but you can
(17:12):
take the building blocks of those and some like for example
5 HTP for serotonin, tyrosine for dopamine and various other
neurotransmitter precursors. You can also take some other
things like black pepper extractto help with the bioavailability
of that and acetyl L carnitine and choline to help replenish
energy in your brain and body aswell.
(17:33):
So that it's basically a bunch of things that will help you
replenish the things that you'respending faster and also help
you with general recovery from fatigue with things like B
vitamins, alcohol, choline, and help with like relaxation with
things like magnesium glycinate.Yes, because I mean the latter,
(17:54):
which I said they're multiple different types of magnesium
compounds. Yeah, and they'll.
Have different effects. They exactly.
And I think that's probably where I went to Amazon and
ordered the wrong, the wrong type perhaps.
But I think the the combination,the formulation of it all
certainly helps to just provide everyone with almost like a
(18:16):
portfolio when they're, you know, ending or even beginning
in their night. And so actually that leads me to
another important question. How do you go about taking soft
landings? How do you go about addressing
your party activities? Because I mentioned I did my pre
drug drugs and my post drug drugs.
Do you take a similar approach? How what is soft landings
(18:39):
recommend? Any advice you have for our
listeners would be greatly appreciated.
Sure. So I mean I don't take pre drug
drugs really. I think in my experience, like
trying to preload with things like tyrosine or five HTP to
have like more there to spend hasn't yielded good results for
me personally. I take soft landings before I go
(19:00):
to bed and again when I wake up the morning after.
So when I'm doing a multi day vendor or a multi day festival,
I'll I'll do the same thing and I'll even sometimes take it in
the middle of the day if I know that I'm going to be not using
like Molly until late at night or something like that.
I will just address one thing that your listeners may have
heard about, which is serotonin syndrome.
So yeah, do you know about this?I've heard about it, yes.
(19:22):
So please. There's this medical condition
that can present itself when youreplenishing and spending
serotonin too fast to the point that you overloaded with it and
then your body stops producing it.
This is a really terrible thing to to have and is not always
treatable or curable in those that have it.
(19:43):
Oh shit, there's a common narrative on the Internet
especially that if you that there's a substantial risk of
serotonin syndrome when you combine or take too closely
together 5 HTP and MDMA. Look, I'm not a medical doctor
so this is just general advice, but my understanding is that
this is mostly a myth when not combined with antidepressant
(20:05):
drugs. So the big danger that you need
to be careful of with MDMA is combining it with SSRIs or any
kind of SSRI SNR is any of thesekinds of antidepressant drugs
that act on the serotonin system.
Now, for example, I wouldn't recommend this, but I take soft
landings like during the daytimein a festival when I know that
I'm going to be taking MDMA thatevening.
(20:26):
I would say generally speaking, the recommendation is take it
after the MDMA has worn off and don't take it that morning if
you're going to be using MDMA that day or that evening, Sure,
you know so. Give yourself a like say a 12
hour buffer or something. Please.
Yeah. And I'd say like also a pro tip
is like when you're at a multi day festival, try and have
different drugs to use on different days.
(20:47):
Yes, I think that is something that is so under spoken about.
You got to swap things out because different things pull on
different levers of happiness orthings that trigger happiness so
you can find and unlock different avenues and
adventures. Exactly.
And you know, hell, I've even looked at like my calendar of
events or like what dinner am I going to be having?
(21:09):
Like maybe that could even influence like a lighter dinner
might be better for him, like a Molly night for sure.
You know, whereas if I'm going to do coke, maybe it doesn't
matter as much. Can I mean, also maybe not, I
don't know. It just depends on the body,
right. And that's the other thing too.
Everybody's body. Reacts differently to
everything. Exactly.
So anything you try, I think youkind of need to ease into.
(21:31):
I've heard of some people use a notes app every now and then to
do this to almost like diary. What are the experiences or
feelings you have after certain types of situations related to
the use or ingestion of a certain drug or supplement of
sorts? Because then you can kind of
identify what are like the variables, the AB, you kind of
do an AB test of sorts on yourself.
(21:54):
And then from there, if once youkind of get a good sample size,
you almost can choose your own adventure of like the evening,
the activity is like the feelingyou want and coordinate your
plans accordingly. Yeah, so my other Co founder,
Toby, he actually in a very German way of him, of his, he
has a an app, I think it's the Psychonaut Wiki app on his phone
(22:15):
that actually lets you log what you've taken, how long it's been
between these different things and also how you felt after.
And it will like over time let you delve back into that and try
and gain some insight into the combinations and effects.
Yeah, I really don't like using my phone when I'm getting
cooked. Oh yeah, I don't like.
Screens and. My eyes don't necessarily
(22:36):
connect as well, but. You know, everyone's different,
so especially if this is something that you haven't been
doing for years and it's something you're still exploring
and you're sort of still learning, you don't have a good
intuition yet for how your body responds to different things.
I'd say trying to log them or diary them or like reflect in
some way, in a way that you can look back on when you're not
(22:57):
coming down or not high can be useful.
Yeah, well, I first of all, that's like the most German
thing I've ever heard. Of very German.
I mean, from the the engineeringkind of component of it, but
also that it's like hyper party drug related.
I was like, this is so spot on. Like, are we in Bergen right
now? I love it.
I love it. And Bergen is so much fun.
(23:20):
Oh my God. So I love that and I love this
concept. And for our listeners, we've
linked this app in our show notes and on our website.
See if you have questions, just check it out there.
We've got you covered, but I also wanted to kind of go back
and talk about like are there specific drugs or activities
(23:41):
that that soft landing specifically targets better or
supports better than other activities?
Definitely. So we actually have a whole
chart on our website about this if you're interested, everyone.
So there's certainly some drugs and activities that it works
better for than others, like they MDMA, cocaine, any kind of
stimulants, amphetamines or caffenones.
(24:03):
It's definitely works best for it helps with things like
alcohol and G to some degree, nowhere near to the degree that
it does for things like MDMA andcocaine.
Mostly just because the after effects of for example, alcohol
are mostly to do with acetaldehyde buildup and
dehydration. So you can easily acetaldehyde
(24:27):
buildup is a bit of a trickier 1and we actually have a product
in the pipeline that addresses that, but.
OK, we're going to see. Electrolytes, Electrolytes and
sleep are really the best thingsyou can do for alcohol and G
Yeah. Things like psychedelics and
ketamine, the after effects thatyou feel after those are more to
(24:48):
do with sleep loss than they areto do with, like, any kind of
after effect of the drug. So nothing can replace sleep.
Oh, absolutely. And one of the things you need
to understand about products like soft landings or any kind
of supplement is like, it cannotreplace sleep and food.
Yeah. So another tip that I've learned
from being a degenerate for a long time is like, when you're
in a long Bender, what you really need to do is sometimes
(25:10):
reflect and stop and like, eat. Yeah.
Like nutritious food and drink electrolytes if you're trying to
go for a few days at a festival or something like that, even
though you don't feel like it. Just thinking what can I get
right now that is like what foodtruck has something that is like
small enough that I'm not going to feel tired after eating it,
but nutrient dense, you know, like a, like a, a sigh bowl or a
(25:31):
burrito or something like that, you know?
I love that not. Chips and a burger.
Yes, I mean, I'm, I'm a big smoothie guy.
Smoothies are great. Yeah.
Like, you know, like. Berries and yogurt or something?
Yeah, nutrient dense. It's all the good stuff, the
protein, like all that stuff. So yes, exactly.
And I, I love too that you pointed out the electrolyte side
of things because even as you were talking about alcohol and
(25:54):
G, which ironically you never want to use those together,
folks. But they're very similar
actually in their effect on yourbody.
Exactly, and what's interesting,so with Molly, with MDMA it's
almost the inverse because a lotof times people will drink too
much water and they almost over hydrate in a way that causes
their body to be therefore over hydrated.
There's not enough salt and electrolytes in their body.
(26:16):
It actually causes your blood cells to expand and that could
in extreme cases lead to very serious facts.
But certainly if we can get ahead of that and address that,
which is like, you know, maybe replace that bottle of water
with a Gatorade. Look, I'd say it's not that easy
to like harm yourself by drinking too much water when you
of course, when you're rolling, unless you're like wrapping your
(26:38):
lips around a fire hydrant or something.
But it. Depends how cute he is honestly.
Exactly, you know, it depends, depends how wide you need to
open your mouth and the surrounded, I guess.
Look, I'd say it's more the extreme cases.
It's like, you know, if you're drinking water and
electrolysing, you're like, you know, did I have 3 servings or
five servings in the last? Like this is over analyzing.
(27:02):
As long as you're drinking some amount of electrolytes
throughout the night and you arehaving some consistent amount of
hydration, you're probably goingto be all right.
Yeah, but it's also if you've not been doing this and thinking
about this for a long time, it'salso sometimes easy to just
forget to drink water and or electrolytes and forget to eat.
Yeah, because your body's not asking you to do it.
(27:22):
Yeah, and then you'll certainly know tomorrow.
Oh yeah, I mean, absolutely. I gotta say too, like anytime I
go out and roll, there are many,many a night where I come home
and I haven't, I maybe not have had much to eat the day before
because I'm going to look good when I'm on the dance floor.
If this kid wants to bang it, belooking banging and then be
(27:42):
banging after, right? Or during, who knows.
I don't know. The dance floor can be a little
wild. However, you know, then I like
come home and I have this mentalbattle of, you know, if I don't,
if I'm alone and maybe if I brought my boyfriend home.
And we definitely have had thosemoments of like, should we eat?
We probably should eat, but thenyou don't.
You're just like, no, I don't want to stay skinny.
(28:04):
And I'm like, you know what? It's not a matter of like
staying skinny. It's like this will help your
muscles, it'll help your recovery, it'll help you feel
better. So that especially if you're
going to party the next day, youcan go out and keep the party
going. But also think about how many
calories you just burned in the last six hours.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean the number of times I've
had my Apple Watch be like, are you working out?
And I'm like, what kind of hiking am IQ like, I don't know.
(28:26):
Yeah, work bitch. And I do love that, though I
think that's we've also joked actually, actually on this show,
I love to go out and dance because I'm like, oh, I do feel
skinny. Like after a good night, a good
weekend. And again, by kind of having and
knowing how to choose your own adventure of how you need to
feel the next day. I think we talked about this in
(28:46):
season 2, like the party planning of it.
All right, I know I have a meeting in the morning.
Like I've regularly been out late on Sunday nights and I have
9:00 AM Monday morning meetings and I'm like, oh, but this is
like a really fun party and the DJ's just banging like I just
this is, it's going to be a fun night.
(29:07):
They're going to be a lot of sexy people out.
I want to go and make the best of this night.
All right, let's let's maybe notdo MDMA because I don't want to
necessarily feel as bad in the morning, but maybe I'll sample
some GD tonight, you know, and plan that way.
So my recovery might be a littlebit different or I can better
manage it based off of whatever I might have at home.
(29:29):
Sure. And certainly it'll feel a lot
better if I've got soft landingson on my side.
Yes. So one of the other things I
wanted to talk about was some ofthe differences with some of the
other supplements out. And you know, we can name
brands. We don't have to.
We can, but yeah. And I got to say one thing I did
love about your website is in the footer of the page where the
(29:50):
contact, the FAQ, all that you also right there have direct
links to be like, no, compare usto our competitors, like make
sure this is right for you. And at the same time, we have no
question or harm or or cause to hold back because this is just
our brand authentically. And I thought that was so cool
and such a statement about your brand and the confidence you
(30:11):
have in it. Thank you, Biscuit.
That's a really that's an amazing compliment.
Look, when we started this, we were very direct about the fact
that we wanted to have the best product on the market and we
were comparing ourselves to the other brands that existed.
So there's nothing to hide there.
And I'd say like we want to talkabout the other products on the
(30:31):
market. The only serious competitor in
the space is Happy Tuesdays at this point.
They actually have a pretty goodproduct in my opinion.
I think their branding is reallygood.
The quality of the ingredients is really good too, but they're
limited in a couple of ways. So their product is in capsules,
and there's only so many capsules that someone wants to
take when they're coming down. Oh yeah.
(30:53):
So they're physically limited byspace and how much actual active
ingredients they can pack into like 5 capsules or whatever it
is that they have. So look, I think that they do a
good job of deciding what to putthere, but we have a drink
format and we can have 4 grams of powder in there, so we can
actually fit more active ingredients per dose in a
(31:13):
serving than they can that way. Yeah.
The other thing is the elephant in the room with them is price.
Yeah, You know, it's like 6 lbs per dose, which I don't know
what that is in USD, probably like 988 dollars or something.
8-9 dollars, yeah. Something like that, which is
pretty expensive. And we were aware that we like
they're already a known brand and coming to the space, we
(31:36):
thought that we can make it in aformat that makes it cheap
enough that people, number one, have a bag of 20 of them and #2
don't think too much about handing them out to their
friends. That's going to be really good
word of mouth. And it has been.
So that's one of the reasons whyour pricing is the way it is.
And we also have it in the 20 pack format rather than selling
individual doses. Well, and I got to say I love
(31:59):
that as to my friends because there have been many a trip we
talked about at the start of season 2, a trip that we took to
Puerto Vallarta, Mexico where itwas for one of our friends
birthdays. Pete brought these little like
gift bags for everybody and it included like a hangover kit of
sorts. And with some of that included
(32:22):
things like I don't know, like the crystallite ice or crystal
crystal ice light or whatever the little like drink mixes are
that you put in with water like electrolyte.
Yeah. Various assortments.
What a nice friend. Yeah, it was nice.
You know, many people associate that with like the recovery from
alcohol and they don't think about the impact or the support
(32:43):
that they might need in other substance taking.
And so having something like this that you're just so easily
able to hand out is, is, I thinka game changer.
And yes, I think you're you're spot on with the capsules, like
especially at the end of the night.
Nobody wants to be swallowing 5 capsules and then just get home
from eating 4 pills and dancing for 8 hours.
(33:05):
Yeah, but if you can just mix a little supplement into your
water and actually and like I gotta say, the flavour is pretty
good. Well, it's as good as we can
make it given the amount of active ingredients.
Yeah, It's not going to be like,you know, the US Southern
lemonade or sweet iced tea. Yeah, yeah, let's be real.
Like it's not a fruit punch. No, but but it is enough that
(33:28):
you are very comfortable consuming it in in a period of
time where you're like, I just need to slam this and go to bed.
That's all we need. We were very aware of the fact
that when people are taking this, they're probably going to
be feeling a bit fragile, so we need it to taste not like
something that you really need to chug and hold down, like
something that tastes all right.Yes, exactly I I love that.
I think that makes it way easierfor all the.
(33:52):
Stomach, you could say. Quite.
Easy. Yes, quite simply.
Quite simply. So pivoting momentarily, yes.
I'd love to just hear a little bit more about your feral side
of life. Like what?
Yeah. So obviously you've had enough
to inspire soft landings. What was there like a hangover
or a come down from some weekendthat was like, Jesus, I need to
(34:17):
do something about this or. Or was the catalyst of like I
absolutely need to stock back upin my supplements and led to, I
guess, you know, a domino falling in the the light of many
dominoes that led to soft landings?
Look, I'd say there wasn't a moment, but it's been like how
I've gotten from there to here is more like just as I've gotten
(34:38):
older, a lot of people when they're young, they party more
and as they get older, they party less.
I've kind of gone the other way.Just like when I was like 18,
I'd go out and have a big night,but I'd be so ruined for the
next couple of days that I wouldn't do it all weekend.
But as I've gotten older, I've definitely gotten better at
understanding how to listen to my body, understanding how to
not just supplements, but like take a Xanax to go to sleep, you
(35:01):
know, like have some G when I'm hungover in the morning, you
know, like eat nutritious food, use blackout blinds and sleep
masks and sleeping tablets to then get enough sleep that I can
keep going the next day. But I mean, my Co founder Toby
and me, we go to a festival in Albania every year called and
unity explorations. It's a six day festival.
(35:21):
So over the years we've gotten better at surviving that.
And like I'll like with my like my supplement stack and my post
drug drugs, which I can talk about actually go beyond soft
landings. Sure.
But look, I'm still standing on the last day at the after party
at midday, cooked out of my mindand kind of walking away from
look, I mean, I'll need a coupleof days of just crashing in an
(35:44):
Airbnb, watching Netflix and sleeping.
But compared with most of the people that I see around me that
actually go that hard for that long, Yeah, it makes a massive
difference. So a couple of things that I can
recommend or not necessarily recommend, but just talk about
like my post drug, drugs as you just say, something to replenish
(36:04):
NAD like either a NNN supplement.
So NAD is for those who don't know, a source of energy at the
cellular level in your body. It's something that every cell
uses and requires for energy at every moment.
So if you immediately turned your NAD level in your body to
0, you would die in, I believe. Don't quite mean this, but I
(36:26):
believe a few minutes, yeah. We don't need that.
And NAD isn't something you can take in a capsule form, but you
can take a precursor like a likewith for example 5 HTP called
NMN or you can get NAD injections or infusions.
Oh, OK. And you can take them.
They even come in like an Ozempic pen format.
Now if you want to buy them, no shit.
They're pretty expensive, but they make a massive difference.
(36:48):
Oh, I bet, yeah. Like, it acts on a completely
different pathway as something like soft landings with
replenishing the neurotransmitters.
But when you're talking about like, feeling better the next
day after or surviving 6 days ofdrug use, yeah, it's one of
those things in the toolkit. That's amazing.
I'm definitely going to need is do you need require a doctor to
prescribe something like that oris it just?
(37:10):
Depends. It depends in different
countries. So in the USI believe you can
just buy it online. Like I believe there's some
websites you can either get it from like peptide websites that
sell things like growth hormone precursors or psalms or things
that like bodybuilders would use.
Or you can get it from some likeonline, like the same kind of
places that you'd get like a weed card or like a ketamine
(37:34):
prescription or something like that, that just like prescribe
you something and just mail it out for you to dose yourself
with. Yeah, yeah.
I think that unless you're already someone that is
comfortable, like using peptidesor something like that, the
precursors like NMN are totally the easier route than trying to
figure out how to like do subcutaneous injections and all
this kind of stuff. Oh yeah.
(37:54):
But yeah, I mean, if you're already comfortable with that,
direct NAD works better. Wow.
I truly had no idea. This is like blowing this.
Is still pretty new stuff. All right, so you've heard it
here first, folks like, because I, I gotta say too, this is,
this is a topic we don't talk a lot about in the US and we're
really probably most. Places.
Yeah. And it's really unfortunate
(38:16):
because it prevents folks from being able to go out, have a
good time safely. Look, I mean, one of the angles
that we have about this, that's probably the main angle is that
we like Ronnie, Toby and me get a lot of, I could, I guess you
could say positive mental healthbenefits from, for example,
doing MDMA with our friends and like breaking those barriers
(38:38):
down and like spending time together in, for example, I, I
don't have an office job, so I don't have like a water cooler
or, or an Expo to go to. And one of the places that I
meet people and socialize with strangers is music festivals.
And being able to do that in a way that doesn't make me feel
like down and depressed or like have anxiety or something like
(39:00):
that for a few days after I think is like a real win for our
mental health. Oh I totally agree.
I think the appropriate use of drugs recreationally in a way
that can allow you to unlock feelings that you might have
otherwise suppressed with your friends, with your family.
I think I was talking to you right before we kick things off
(39:21):
here, about the time I was a Sherpa for my sister the first
time she tried MDMA. And for our listeners, a part
about being a good Sherpa is always kind of setting
expectations or feelings or experiences they might have
during that experience over the course of time.
And one of the things I told herwas I was like, hey girl, just,
(39:45):
I just want you to know you're going to feel a lot of feelings.
It's going to be a lot of a lot of really good and potentially
intense. And I just want you to know
there will be a moment during the night when you come up to me
and you just say, oh, Biscuit, Ijust love you so much.
And I shit you not like 2 hours later, here she was being like,
(40:07):
she goes, Biscuit, it's not the Molly I want you to know.
And I was like. Sure, girl, sure.
It was just priceless. But I, I do love that.
And we, we had such a great sibling conversation after that
where it really did in many waysunlock.
I don't know. I don't know if I'd necessarily
call it barriers, but perhaps any fog that might have been in
(40:31):
a glass through the window, it just completely wiped it away.
And we felt comfortable seeing and speaking to each other in a,
in a freer and different way. And that was magical.
And I just really think that having conversations like this
help other people unlock opportunities like that too.
For sure. I mean, that particular example
with your sister is one of thoseclassic things where like people
(40:54):
have been talking about the pseudo therapeutic effects of
MDMA where they can like, you know, breakdown barriers, talk,
have uncomfortable conversations, talk to people in
a more open way has been, I guess not taken seriously by the
medical field for like such a long time.
And now recently since these studies about like using MDMA in
a therapeutic context with PTSD and all this stuff and helping
(41:17):
people open up and talk about their traumas.
Obviously doing it at the club with your friends is not the
same as doing it in a therapeutic context.
But like we can see some of those same things happening
here, you know, where we can break down the barriers with
each other. We can be more open and
communicate in a more free and genuine way.
Sometimes being mindful of the fact that like you don't always
(41:40):
feel the same way about the things that you say when you
cook and you may just say tomorrow.
But like, if you can get to a place where you feel vulnerable,
comfortable with vulnerability enough to like have certain
conversations and say certain things to people, that can be a
real win. Yeah, I mean, as the song goes,
release your inhibitions, you know, feel the pain on your scan
girls. Like it's just I totally.
One other thing I was going to say, and this is kind of
(42:01):
completely off the topic of drugs, but maybe more culturally
related. You know a lot of what we're
talking about here, the use of recreational drugs, or we've
called them in the past, extracurricular activities for
your evening. But in many of these cases,
you're out and you're experiencing things communally,
right? You're generally doing these
(42:21):
with other people. So then you're unlocking a
shared experience. But on top of that, a lot of
this, as we've talked about here, all of these experiences
are taking place at festivals, at clubs generally where you're
out dancing, you're engaging with music, you're engaging
within the rhythm of like, not just the music, but of the
people. And you look across cultures,
(42:43):
across humanity. Dancing is always a part of it,
always. And even outside of the the
extracurriculars, but even for our sober friends, you're
letting loose. You're unlocking something
fundamentally human in a way. It is.
And look, just on that, like rhythm and dancing and movement
have been something that we've been doing as a species for,
(43:03):
like, all of recorded history, to bring ourselves together even
when we were living in tribes. Yeah.
You know, something that tribes have been doing for all of
recorded time is like banging sticks together to make a beat
and moving their bodies togetherand dancing.
Yes, and many of those tribes often like across cultures,
medicine people, yes, they did like think about South American
(43:24):
cultures with ayahuasca drugs, psychedelics especially,
especially. I mean, gosh, the first time I
did shrimps, I remember I tripped so hard.
I joke with my friends who askedme about it.
They were like, how was it? And I say I lived 84 years in.
Six hours. And there are just so many
hilarious stories. I can specifically recall this.
(43:47):
It was the day Trump in his first term, Oh my God, was in
the hospital with COVID and there was threat that he may
pass away because of it because he was older.
And I remember I would come out of my trip and for those that
haven't perhaps had as heavy have a shrooms trip that I
certainly did that was much moreof a religious experience.
(44:09):
You go through like 30 to maybe 60 minute quote trips like these
waves where you're like in and out.
Were you somewhere else? Yes, I totally I kind of related
to like I would come up for air like in the water and then I
would go back underwater again that's.
A really good analogy. And so there were these moments
throughout that day. And this is how I remember
because I would, I would come back up and I'd be like, and my
(44:30):
friends like, are you okay? And I was like, did Trump die?
And they're like, no. And I was like, okay.
Back. In onto another trip.
It was just hilarious but I remember my last trip as I'm
like laying on the ground lookedat my friend and I go did I just
shit myself and he was like no you didn't.
I was like okay, thank God and he guys bitch.
(44:51):
I know it can be a little rough because but remember religions
were born on this shit and I waslike, you're so right.
It just shows though that this isn't just a now thing.
This has been an always thing, yes.
We're just now able to be smarter about it and safer, yes.
I mean, are there any kind of like best practices, tips,
tricks that we haven't already discussed, little knowledge like
(45:12):
to sprinkle some fairy dust on our listeners with?
One thing I'll say is I think that there's really something to
trying to use drugs to enhance feelings you're already feeling
rather than trying to feel something that you're not
feeling already. So I.
Love that for. Example, if you're not in a good
mood, an ecstasy tablet isn't going to fix that.
It's just going to make you either.
(45:32):
You're either going to force it and then you're going to feel
worse the next day when you're feeling you come down, or you're
just going to feel anxious rather than euphoric.
And if you're feeling down, getting drunk isn't going to
make you. Yeah.
You know, like, it's very tempting to try and use drugs to
suppress feelings and to, like, put up a facade if you're maybe
not feeling social some night orsomething like that.
Like if you're out and dancing to music and you're having a
(45:54):
good time, MDMA is going to makeyou have an even better time.
If you're in a sexual situation where it's like hot and good and
having a good time, like G is going to lubricate those gears
and bring out the sexy feeling, you know?
But absolutely. If.
You're in a bad mood, you're feeling depressed, like having G
is not going to make you feel better in the long term.
You're not going to think back and think, oh, that's a that was
(46:16):
a good idea in like a week from now.
So I think there's really something to understanding how
you're feeling in the moment andthen trying to use drugs to
enhance the feelings that you'rehaving rather than try to
conjure something that isn't already there.
I think that's sage advice. Like very, very wise.
(46:39):
And drugs, recreational, pharmaceutical or otherwise, are
not going. Underground pharmacy, yeah.
Yeah, right. Yeah, those extracurriculars,
right. None of those are going to
replace solid mental Wellness and doing the work at home,
doing the work with a professional who can help guide
(46:59):
you and doing the work with yourfriends.
And, and in many ways, as we've already spoken about today,
taking and the use of drugs and the common experiences can help
you unlock greater feelings withthose people.
But it it doesn't replace them and it doesn't create them.
And I think that is a huge take away because if you need that
(47:19):
support, you should go seek it out because again, you will only
unlock your true self in those moments, whether that's happy or
sad. Yes, that's right.
And I'll just say my psychologist gave me some really
good advice one time that stuck with me through the years was
that if you feel like there's some work you need to do on
yourself, you can't do it by yourself.
(47:40):
Like there's no, there is no self without like sometimes we
have this idea like, oh, you know, I'll go find a
relationship or I'll go get a get better friends once I've
done the work by myself and I can like go give a better
version of myself to them. But like the self exists in
relation to the other. And it's through these
relationships and this this relating that we do with other
people that we, we reflect and like use those relationships
(48:01):
like a mirror, yes, and not for.Lines.
Not a mirror for lines, yeah. Sure, sure.
Yes, I mean we need those as well.
Absolutely, mind you. Yes, I totally, I totally agree.
And I think that that's really, really wise advice.
It's. One of the things that stuck
with me through the years. One of the things my therapist
(48:21):
told me too is it's you can't work for the once this happens
once I achieve that because the goal post is going to continue
it. Never does you never get there
you. Never get there.
And that's why it's about livingin the moment.
It's about embracing who you arebecause who you are is
beautiful. You got to know that listeners
like no matter how you identify,no matter who you are, you know,
(48:42):
whether you're straight or queer, whether you're dancing or
just wanting to to sit and have a cocktail at the bar, it
doesn't matter so long as we're all there to support one
another. And as we like to say on the
show, be the party you want to see in the world that's.
A great one which. Really.
Should I'm like, come on, Muhammad Gandhi, you like?
To use that, yeah. Please do with pride to.
(49:04):
Tell people that when I'm cookedon the dance floor.
Yes, and it's so true because ifwe that organically will foster
a better community, it's kind oflike the golden rule of partying
almost right? So if we can all support one
another inherently, we're going to build a stronger and safer
community. We just so appreciate whatever
what happened. You've been on the show, so
thank you again, but also for what you're contributing to the
(49:27):
community through soft landings.And you know, I think again, the
education, the rawness that yourbrand also brings is truly
authentic and is exactly what our wider party festival, Feral
community needs, you know, So thank you.
And again, we just appreciate having you on the show.
(49:47):
Thanks Biscuit, that means a lot.
It's been a pleasure being here and we have a discount code for
your listeners. Amazing.
If anyone wants to buy soft landings, they can go to our
website softlandings.com and usethe discount code Ferrell to get
$10 off OH. My God, we fucking love this.
Yes, no, we love that. So that code is Feral.
FERAL on softlandings.com for your discount code.
(50:11):
So once again, Zen, thank you somuch for being here.
We greatly appreciate it and can't wait to see out at the
next festival and on the dance floor.
You will see me on the dance floor, don't worry.
Amazing. Thanks again.
Thank you. Well, with that, from our fair
relationship to yours, I'm Pete.And I'm Biscuit.
And remember. Have fun, get fucked and get
(50:33):
Ferrell.
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