May 13, 2025 • 39 mins
Learn how dictation is your secret weapon for capturing story ideas, supporting overall health, and writing up to 3,000 words per hour.
Are you curious about how dictation can improve your health and mobility, enhance your natural storytelling flow, and revolutionize your time management—even if you've tried and failed at it before? Well, then, you'll love this episode with Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer.
Sarah is an author who's published 19 books—11 of which she wrote entirely through dictation. She now teaches other writers how to do the same so that they can write faster, spend less time sitting at their computers, and overcome perfectionism that stops them from getting words on the page.
Be sure to tune in. You'll hear us talk about things like:
[03:33] Why Sarah failed at dictation for years and the surprising mindset shift that made everything click into place.
[06:40] The 3 unexpected benefits of dictation that have nothing to do with writing speed but will change how you think about it.
[09:14] How Sarah captured 1,200 words in just 20 minutes while washing dishes (the scene that would've been lost forever).
[15:48] Why your brain freezes when you try to dictate your fiction and exactly how to create those missing neural pathways.
[25:43] The dead-simple "open bracket" trick for adding quick notes mid-sentence without breaking your creative flow.
[31:40] The surprisingly simple text message exercise that retrains your brain for dictation even if you had trouble with it before.
Whether battling perfectionism, dealing with chronic pain, or just curious about dictation for writers, this episode gives you the practical steps to get started without expensive dictation software or complicated equipment.
⭐ Follow & Review
If you loved this episode, please take a moment to follow the show and leave a review on Apple Podcasts! Your review will help other writers find this podcast and get the insights they need to finish their books. Thanks for tuning in to The Fiction Writing Made Easy Podcast! See you next week!
🔗 Links mentioned in this episode:
- Check out Sarah’s Dictation + Scrivener Power Combo Mini-Course and use code FWME to get $50 off your purchase.
- Dictation For Authors Quickstart Guide (Free)
Click here to register for my FREE training: 3 Things You Need to Write Your Novel in 2025.
👉 Looking for a transcript? If you’re listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, scroll down below the episode player until you see the transcript.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I would tell authors to not be discouraged and not
fall for the thing that yourbrain might tell you of.
We can't do this dictationthing.
We've tried and failed.
It's a wiring thing.
Some people are just moreinclined to this, to speaking
their words, and that's not howyour brain is wired.
So just turn that voice off andknow that you can train your
(00:20):
brain to dictate your fiction.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy
podcast.
My name is Savannah Gilbo andI'm here to help you write a
story that works.
I wanna prove to you thatwriting a novel doesn't have to
be overwhelming, so each week,I'll bring you a brand new
episode with simple, actionableand step-by-step strategies that
you can implement in yourwriting right away.
So, whether you're brand new towriting or more of a seasoned
(00:47):
author looking to improve yourcraft, this podcast is for you.
So pick up a pen and let's getstarted.
In today's episode, I'm divinginto a writing technique that
could transform how you approachyour novel, and that is
dictation.
If you've ever struggled withfinding time to write, battled
perfectionism when staring at ablank page or simply wanted a
(01:08):
healthier way to create yourstories, then this episode is
for you.
I'm joined by a very specialguest.
Her name is Sarah ElizabethSawyer, and she's an author,
writing instructor and the hostof the Confident Fiction Author
podcast.
Sarah has written multiplenovels using dictation and has
helped countless writersincorporate this powerful tool
into their creative process, andin this episode, sarah is going
(01:30):
to share her experience writingnovels using dictation, as well
as some of the surprisingbenefits to using dictation to
write your novel that go beyondjust writing faster.
She's also going to share somepractical tips for getting
started, some insights into howto overcome common obstacles and
how speaking your story mightjust help you finally finish
that manuscript you've beendreaming about.
(01:52):
So, without further ado, let'sdive right into my conversation
with Sarah Elizabeth Sawyer.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I'll actually introduce myself in the words of
our Choctaw language.
I'll actually introduce myselfin the words of our Choctaw
language Alito Sohocha Foyet.
Sarah Elizabeth Sawyer, choctaw, siya Hokke.
Hi, my name is Sarah ElizabethSawyer and I am Choctaw.
I'm a tribal member of theChoctaw Nation of Oklahoma and
I'm an author and digital coursecreator.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Love that so much.
We're going to talk about anexciting topic of dictation and
I think that a lot of writersare going to benefit from our
conversation and they couldbenefit from dictation, whether
it's because they want to writefaster, maybe they have a
chronic illness that makes ithard to show up at their desk
every day, or maybe they'rebattling with perfectionism or
writer's block whatever it isthat for some reason, showing up
(02:41):
and typing the words just feelsreally hard.
So I'm so excited to get intoall of this.
But how did you kind of finddictation?
What made you go?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
to it.
You know it was listening topodcasts and hearing authors at
conferences and stuff talk abouthow they were just rocking it
with dictation.
They were getting in 5,000words, 10,000 words a day, and
they just rambling off and itsounded so easy right, it
sounded so easy to just be ableto speak your fiction instead of
typing and the process ofactually doing that.
(03:11):
So every time I would hear oneof those interviews, every time
I would hear another author whowas just killing it with
dictation, I was like I've gotto do that, I've got to try it.
And so I would try and promptlyfail, like my brain would
freeze up and I was like, okay,my brain just doesn't work that
way.
Great, it works for those otherauthors and they're able to do
it.
I'm just not wired that way.
(03:31):
And so I kept going back to that.
That was probably.
I know.
I did a Facebook post in 2013saying where I was trying Dragon
Dictation on my phone wheneverI first got smartphone and
Dragon came out with their appthat subscription based app and
so I tried it and same thing.
I was like this just isn'tgoing to work.
So for several years I had alot of false starts with
(03:53):
dictation before I finallymastered it.
I guess it was 2019.
I keep trying to track backover that because I never
thought I would be sharing mydictation journey with people.
But looking back at the firstnovel that I dictated all the
way through, that would havebeen 2019.
So it took some years to get itdown.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Wow, yeah, and it's so funny you say stops and
starts, because I've dabbledwith it before.
It's not something I use.
I still like handwriting andtyping and more of those like
tactile things, but for me andtell me if this is true for you
it's almost like I would startto say something that I'm like
that's not right, that's notgood, and then I would.
I would get frustrated, like Ican't do this because what's
(04:31):
coming out isn't working.
Did that happen to you?
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, absolutely Pre-judging yourself.
You know it's like it's fixingto come out your mouth, so it's
oh, it's got to come outperfectly because it feels so.
Like I said, the tactileexperience with typing on the
keyboard backspace is rightthere delete.
I can you know very quickly,highlight and get rid of that
sentence.
But dictation really makes youpush forward and get your
writing done, which is anotherhuge benefit of dictation.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah, and just I should back us up a little bit
because in case you're listeningand you don't know what
dictation is, it's essentiallyyou're typing and your computer,
or you're talking and you'retyping on the computer as you
talk.
Is there another way you woulddescribe it, or did I get it?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, actually, you don't have to type, so you're
just talking.
Now some authors do thatThey'll type at the same time
and they'll speak to get trainedin dictation.
But yeah, it's not, I don't.
My books that I've dictated allof them have been on my phone,
so I never actually dictatereally on my computer and it
just makes me mobile.
I'm able to do it comfortablyfrom my living room or from my
(05:33):
bed and just really get in goodpositions or taking a walk and
being able to get words done.
So you don't have to have akeyboard and a computer there to
get your writing done.
You can just speak your words.
And yes, that's a greatdescription of dictation Instead
of typing them, you're speakingthem.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I love the idea of being mobileas you can write your book.
So we're going to dig into.
I know you have three mainbenefits.
I asked you to summarize andyou're like I have three main
benefits of dictation and itgoes beyond just writing faster.
So will you walk us through thefirst benefit?
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah.
So health and you mentionedthis health is really number one
.
It's really taken over writingfaster.
So a lot of authors come todictation like me, you know,
wanting to be able to rack upthose huge word counts and do it
with ease.
But I have so many authors nowthat come into my trainings and
they're there for the healthbenefits.
(06:24):
They're getting older or theyhave chronic illnesses and
arthritis so many issues thatthey're like I have to do this
or I can't continue writing.
And so health definitely.
And they say sitting is the newsmoking.
We spend so much time justsitting at our computers.
And I tell authors even if youwant to continue dictating at
your computer, totally fine, butif you're able to do it in
(06:47):
twice as fast like I doubled mywriting speed with dictation
that doesn't happen for everyone, but I doubled my writing speed
you're at least cutting yoursitting time in front of your
computer in half for yourwriting time.
So health, huge benefit.
Lots of authors go for walkswhen they're doing their
dictation.
So you're able to get yourexercise in and get your writing
in.
You're not having to sacrificeone or the other.
(07:08):
So if you have an hour to writebut that doesn't leave you time
to exercise or you can walk foran hour, but it doesn't give
you time to write.
You can get an hour of writingand an hour of walking in at the
same time.
So number one really overwriting faster is health.
So number two what I reallyenjoy is just the natural, the
naturalness of telling stories.
(07:29):
I have oral storytellingbackground.
I never did it professionallybut I enjoy telling stories
orally and I think we all startthat way.
We all start with being able totell stories before we can even
write them.
And so, going back to thattradition, I'm a tribal member
of the Choctaw Nation ofOklahoma, so storytelling,
that's how we pass down storiesand preserve them.
(07:50):
So being able to just speak thestories, it's a lot of fun and
it can also give you a reallynatural sounding dialogue.
That's something that someauthors get that benefit of.
We don't write, of course.
You know spot on dialogue whenwe're in fiction, but it still
just gives you that opportunityto hear the words as they're
coming out and even get into thevoice of your character.
(08:13):
So sometimes I will throw in alittle bit of an accent, not too
much, because you don't want tomess up your dictation, but you
can just really role play inthat.
So being able to just orallytell a story huge benefit.
And then the third one that Ireally love is time management.
So the first time I did finallysuccessfully dictate a piece of
(08:33):
fiction it was a backstoryscene of one of the novels that
I was working on and it justlike downloaded in my brain all
at once and I was like I've gotto capture this.
But I also had a sink full ofdishes and I needed to be out
the door in about 20 minutes andI was like, okay, either, I'm
going to capture the scene whichI knew I couldn't, even even if
I sat down and just spent the20 minutes on that, I was like I
(08:55):
can't, I won't be able tocapture all of it, I'll just be
some exercises and some practiceand all.
So let me just hook up my phoneand give it a try.
And so I did it while doingdishes, came back, transcribed
those words and I had over 1,200words in just that 20 minutes
(09:16):
and they would just, it wouldjust have been completely gone,
like I would have not been ableto capture it and have that
backstory.
So that's for me time management.
It allows you to get yourwriting in the little places of
time that you might nototherwise.
If you're doing your pets oryou're doing dishes, you know
you just get to go ahead and getsome writing in, especially
(09:36):
when inspiration strikes.
Those are three top benefitsbeyond writing faster that I
just love about dictation.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
And that's amazing because I heard some things that
are usually top of mind forwriters.
So the time management thing ishuge.
Usually it's like I don't havethe time and now you're like
dictation is a way that we'regoing to help you get some of
that time back.
I also heard you talk about howdictation can make it feel a
little more natural, like whenyou're writing either in your
voice or your character's voice,which is something writers
(10:03):
struggle with, and then it allgoes back.
We can be healthier if we usedictation and we can live longer
to write more books.
So I think all of that isawesome and I'm sure there are
so many other benefits, butthose, I agree, those are
probably the top three mostinteresting, most enticing for
listeners.
Well, I kind of want to go tosome technical questions too.
(10:24):
Maybe you have this planned,but I'm thinking of, like you're
doing the dishes, and it's kindof loud when you're doing the
dishes.
Does any of that stuff get inthe way when you're doing
dictation?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
So there's a couple of things that you can do One,
having a mic and I now have aheadset mic that I would use
whenever I'm out and about orgoing out and feeding my
chickens and stuff.
I can hook that in.
What I used that first timewere just my earbuds, just my
wired earbuds, and I don'trecommend that.
You're not going to get thebest accuracy, but just the fact
that I was able to get thisbackstory scene written that I
(10:58):
knew I wasn't going to go backand edit and publish, I just
wanted to capture it.
That worked for that time.
But that's what I recommend forauthors when you're looking at
time management is getting a mic, and it doesn't have to be
expensive and, honestly, I wrotemy first nine books without a
mic.
I typically don't use a micwith dictation, so I just always
encourage authors you don'thave to make a big financial
(11:19):
investment to get started withyour tools and your tech with
dictation.
So that is one of the things.
Though, if you're going to bewalking, there's a lot of
creative solutions that myauthors are always coming up
with in the boot camps.
It's a lot of fun to see howthey get creative with being
able to make dictation work intheir lifestyle and get their
writing in ways that they neverwere before.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
I bet that's so cool.
And I'm just thinking of someof the writers I know who are
like my most creative ideas comein the shower or when I'm
taking a bath or walking thedogs or whatever.
So I'm sure the opportunitiesto use dictation are endless.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, and I'll just slide that in there.
So one of my good writingfriends, she did dictation in
the shower.
So yeah, we have waterproofphones.
Now you can get a waterproofcase.
But yeah, you get those ideasand whenever they're hit, most
of us typically have our phoneson us, or at least where we can
grab them pretty quick.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Right, yeah, that's so cool.
Ok, and so another techquestion Is there like a
specific program that you use todo this, or are there multiple
programs?
Tell me about that.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, there are so many tools and options available
Savannah now that we have withdoing dictation that we didn't
have 10 years ago or even fiveyears ago.
So back in the day, dragonDictation was our only option.
We had to spend that $600, $700, I think it's currently $700 to
do Dragon Dictation to get that, naturally speaking, and then
(12:40):
we had to train on how to use itand train ourselves to do
dictation what I call dictation,but being able to dictate your
fiction so it was quite aninvestment to even get a
software to do that.
Nowadays there are voice totext apps that you can use.
There are recording apps so youcan record your words, and
that's actually how I wrote myfirst nine books.
(13:02):
I recorded and then the app hada transcription service built
in, and so I was able to do that.
I don't recommend that specificapp.
In fact, I try not to recommendtoo many specific tools
nowadays because they'reconstantly changing and the app
that I use it's no longer workswell, so I don't recommend it.
But that is what I get in therewith my trainings is I give
(13:23):
people you know, let's look atwhat the latest tools are and
then it depends if you're anAndroid or iPhone user, if
you're a Mac or PC, how old orhow new is your technology?
But one thing that all authorscan do.
So I'll just go ahead and giveyou guys just this one simple
thing that pretty much everyoneif you have a smartphone or a
computer, you can do dictation,and that's just using your
(13:45):
built-in speech-to-text optionon your phone or your computer.
So pretty much everyone.
If you pull up a text messageor an email, there's that little
microphone on your keyboard youcan tap that, start speaking
and you are now dictating.
So that's just a quick and easything that pretty much anyone
can do.
The only thing I will give acaution on that, because I've
(14:08):
sent a lot of my author friendsdown that road before I started
doing my trainings and they werelike, oh, this is a mess, oh,
this was terrible, oh, my brainfroze up and I'm like, ah, and
so then they built thatresistance around doing
dictation just like I had.
So I do encourage authors, dopractice, do some training
before you jump right into it.
But if you want to jump rightinto it as far as a tool, you've
(14:30):
got a built-in speech-to-textoption on your phone or your
computer that you can getstarted with.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
That's awesome, and I'd imagine I'm thinking of
practicing.
There are probably so many waysyou can go about that.
Like there are prompts.
You can even just pretendyou're telling a friend about
your story or what would youwant to ask your friend who's
writing?
Like you can just start toimagine all these scenarios and
then just kind of get used toseeing your words come out of
you.
I'd imagine that that's alittle hurdle we all have to get
(14:57):
over if we're going to trydictation, but not something
that's the end of the world,would you agree?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Oh, absolutely, and that's what I do in my bootcamp.
I'm like, okay, before we jumpright into it, let's go through
some exercises.
I always give some assignmentsand I'm like I know everyone's
chomping at the bits, but it'sso important to create those
neural pathways and if you willtake the time to do that and do
that training instead ofbuilding resistance, I mean I
truly believe any author thatdictation can become as natural
(15:24):
to them as typing that it really, once you have dug those neural
trenches and you're able tojust let your words of fiction
flow out of your mouth insteadof out of your fingers, so there
is a big transition there andthat's what I spend a lot of
time working with authors on, sothat they don't have to spend
the years that it took me tomaster dictation dictating my
(15:44):
fiction.
So that's my big goal is totrim down that learning curve.
Let's practice, let's do sometraining so that it's a smoother
transition for you.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, that's awesome.
And so, speaking of learningcurve, is there like talk about
the learning curve when you'regoing from typing to dictating,
and are there any things thatconsistently surprise people
about, either, likeopportunities or challenges?
Talk to me about that.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, I think the I think tech challenge is usually
everyone's first hurdle Justgetting.
I have a lot of older authorsand even younger authors.
I like I said my friend shedidn't realize she could dictate
directly into Scrivener theScrivener iOS app.
So I think once that's why Ifocus on the tech challenges
first, because there are somephones they'll cut off after 30
(16:28):
seconds.
you know you're dictating andthey'll cut off or your computer
will, and so once you just justencourage authors, stick with
it until you find a tool thatworks for you, works for your
device and that you're able touse.
So that's generally the firstthing that authors hit with that
.
The second thing is just havingthat brain freeze.
They got there if they're anoutliner or a pantster, either
(16:50):
way and that's another thing Ilike to share is authors,
whether you're an outliner or apantster, right by the seat of
your pants you can do dictation,but they will have their
outline or they know what scenethey're going to write.
They start their dictationfunction and they just freeze.
They're like how do I actuallylike, how does it, how do I
actually get this fictionalworld out of my mouth?
(17:11):
And so that's something that Isee consistently and that we
really work on, because I don'twant them to create that
resistance of you know how do Ido this.
And so the last thing that Ireally see a lot is just, people
aren't used to their own voice.
I think, like you said, asauthors we're just, we type,
we're in our little writing cave.
I have a sign above my deskthat says I know I'm in my own
(17:33):
little world, but they all knowme here and so we just have that
.
You know, everyone hasdifferent comfort levels, and
coming together in a group ofother authors who are also, you
know, having all of the samestruggles, it's really
empowering for authors to notfeel like they're alone whenever
they speak for the first timeand be able to start dictating
(17:53):
their fiction.
So, yeah, those are some thingsthat I see come up pretty often
, with authors making thattransition.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah, and I think what you just said is really
important too, because it soundslike it's almost like you
should expect that there will behurdles.
It's not going to just be easyto sit down and dictate your
story or anything.
So I like pointing that stuffout too, that if whoever is
listening tries dictation andyou hit one of these hurdles
like Sarah is saying you are sonot alone.
It's part of the process.
So just hang in there if it'ssomething you want to make work
(18:22):
just hang in there if it'ssomething you want to make work.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Absolutely.
That's what I tell authors andI have a lot of them that will
come into my trainings a fewtimes, you know, because they
just they will not give up andthey're not going to give up and
I encourage them.
I was like just keep, keepgoing through the exercises and
I see it.
Finally click for authors.
I've not seen any authors whohaven't been able to do it, if
they just stick with it longenough.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, that's great.
And so another kind oftechnical question, because you
were talking about planners andpantsers Is there a certain part
of the writing, outliningbrainstorming process, even the
editing process, that eitherdictations like perfect for or
doesn't work for?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
The outlining.
I dictate my outlines and it'sso fun because I used to be a
pantster.
I was a seat of the pantswriter and I would do outline.
And then I'm like I would getfrustrated because I wouldn't
stick with my outline.
You know, I would go offtotally different and I'm like,
oh, I wasted all of that timedoing outlining.
So that was always a point offrustration for me.
Nowadays I do outline all of mystories.
(19:20):
I don't do an elaborate outline, but I do outline.
The fun thing about dictationis I'm able to do my outline by
speaking my words, so it feels alot more effortless to do an
outline.
So even if I end up trashing50% of my outline, I don't feel
like I wasted my time, mywriting time, doing an outline
that I wasn't going to usebecause it went so fast with
(19:42):
dictation.
And so, yeah, huge benefit withoutlining and there are ways
that you can use dictation inthe revision process.
But it is really for that firstdraft, to get that first draft
down, get it out and get it downon paper for the editing
process.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah, and I can just my brain's kind of exploding
with ideas because even if,let's say, you have your first
draft written and then you were,I don't know reading through
your first draft, you could havea little side window up where
you're dictating your notes toyourself or things like that.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
So I feel like there are so many opportunities beyond
.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
You know so many creative ways and I think, just
because I've been playing withAI a little bit these days for
business stuff and it's justopening my mind to all these
different ways that we can usetools like AI or dictation or
whatever it is, so I think thisis really cool, okay, so let's,
let's see where do I want to gonow.
We talked about what dictationis, the benefits of it, the
(20:37):
transition between typing andwriting to dictation, and then
you shared how we can easily getstarted on our smartphone for
free.
Basically, we don't even need afancy microphone, right?
Talk to me about timing andbecause we keep talking about
this idea of we can save time,we can write faster with
dictation.
I know that's going to be avery juicy thing for listeners.
(20:57):
So what do we?
What do you mean by that?
What does that look likepractically?
Speaker 1 (21:03):
So very practically, I used to be able to type about
1500 words of fiction per hour.
That was if I was in a seasonthat I was working on my novel.
I would block out about an hourand I could do about 1500 words
and I was like that's great.
I did a war scene one time andI hit 2000 words an hour.
So that was my top writingspeed and I did hit 10,000 words
(21:23):
in a day one time, but it wasvery challenging and it just it
took a lot of effort to get allof that.
It was probably during Nano orsomething.
So you know, with typing,that's about where I land.
I'm not a super fast typer andI don't think real fast with my
fiction sometimes.
So that's where I was at Withdictation.
I average about 3,000 words anhour.
(21:44):
So, and that's just, that's notspeaking fast, that's speaking
slower than anything that I'vedone on this podcast so far.
So it's speaking much slower,it's pausing, it's checking my
outline notes and I hit about3,000 words.
Top speed is 4,000.
Wow, yeah, and my top day onthat's 11,000.
And I had that done in themorning time like early
(22:07):
afternoon I was done with those11,000 words.
So I was on a deadline, but Igot that done and so that's.
You know, on a practical level,that's what it looks like.
I will say what a lot of authorsfind, and what I found with my
3000 words an hour is I wouldend up with this big mess.
So I would have my 3000 wordsand it was great to have that
many, but it was a big mess, andso that's another thing that
(22:31):
really turns authors off fromdictation is okay, it's faster,
but if I have to do all of thiscleanup, is it worth it?
And so I would spend about 50%of my time on cleanup itself.
So if I dictated for 30 minutes, got 1,500 words in, it would
take me another 30 minutes toclean up that 1,500 words and
(22:53):
I'm like, okay, well, I ended upwith the same 1,500 words.
So a couple of things with that.
One is the technology is alwaysgetting better.
It can learn your voice, it canlearn you know if you have an
accent and all.
So there are some things aroundthat.
And then there's just somethings that you can do to have a
cleaner transcription, andthat's what I've done.
(23:13):
I've done a lot of practicewith enunciating my words and
doing I speak, my punctuationand just lots of things that you
can do to have cleanertranscriptions.
And then I encourage authors,right after your writing session
do your cleanup while it'sfresh on your mind.
Do not write an entire noveland not do your cleanup like.
You want it to look as good asif you had typed it and so do
(23:35):
your cleanup.
And now it's about 90 10, so Iwould spend about 90 10.
So if I dictate 3 000 words in50, 55 minutes, I can spend five
or 10 minutes and get mycleanup done.
So it is definitely.
It's still, you know, you doneed to do your cleanup so that
you don't face you know thissome weird things that come
(23:57):
through in the, in thetranscription, but it can get
better with time.
The other thing that I look atit as you still have all of the
other benefits of dictation.
So even if your speed doesn'tincrease or doesn't increase by
that much which it's almostguaranteed that it will you
still have all of the otherbenefits of health and time
management and all the thingsthat we talked about.
(24:18):
So it still makes dictationjust so worth it.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Right, I love all that, and so I'm thinking of.
Something I teach a lot in mycourse is let's say that you're
in the middle of a scene and youdon't know what the name of the
business is, or you don't knowwhat the setting looks like, or
you know certain details and Iteach them, like either put the
letters TK for information tocome and it's really easy to do
a search and find TK or put itin brackets and say come back
(24:44):
and describe the building orwhatever it is that you need to
do.
So how do you do stuff likethat when you're dictating?
Is it as simple as just sayingbrackets, you know, describe the
building later, or tell meabout how you do that it is yeah
, it is.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
You're already a pro Savannah.
So I'd say open bracket andleave myself a note, just like I
did with typing, and that makesit where, yes, I can.
Then whenever I'm doing mycleanup, I'll either take care
of the note then or I'll justI'll save it for my editing.
It's like with cleanup I justwant to be able to know that all
of my text is there, thateverything is readable, and then
go on and leave the notes forthe editing phase.
(25:18):
Because one of the great thingsabout dictation is a fast first
draft, and whether fast meansgetting it done in a week,
getting it done in a yearinstead of 10 years, you know
whatever that means for eachauthor individually, that
doesn't matter it, just itspeeds up the process.
So, like I said, I dictated, Iwould speak my words and they
would be recorded.
I had no option of doing anykind of edits or doing any notes
(25:40):
, and that's why it's also sofast.
So that's when I learned Icould just say open bracket,
leave myself a note, closebracket.
I could just say open bracket,leave myself a note, close
bracket.
I would just say open bracket,name, close bracket, and it just
meant I need to put thatcharacter's name in there,
because I can't remember whatthat character's name was Right,
that's awesome.
So, yeah, I leave myself lots ofnotes with dictating.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Cool, that's awesome.
And I'm thinking too of thewriters who are like you know.
They love that editing phase.
They love having somethingwritten so they can clean it up,
and I'm just imaginingdictation for them would be so
huge right?
It's like you do your littleword, vomit onto your page or
onto your screen, whatever, andthen you get to do that thing.
That's very rewarding for you,which is cleaning up that mess
(26:19):
that you've made.
So I think there's so manybenefits, depending on what kind
of writer you are, when youchoose to use this.
In the process, it seems likethe options and opportunities
are almost limitless.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah, I love what one author and I need to memorize
her name because I quote thisoften but our first drafts are
just shoveling sand in so thatwe can build castles later, and
I love that.
I have that messy first draftand that's.
The fun thing about dictationis you can just vomit on the
page and it's so much easier andmore effortless than typing
that.
Just go ahead and put it all inthere and then go back and edit
(26:53):
it later and then, if you aremore of an edit as you go author
.
I have author friends thatthey're 500 words an hour and
that's totally fine and they'reusing dictation and it's still
speeding up their process, butit's just making it easier and
more effortless for them to gettheir words down.
So yeah it just it gets worseon the page.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
And I think what you said is really important too is
it's almost like we have thesetools like dictation or like
whatever we're using, and thegoal is not to make it harder,
it's to make our jobs easier.
So for some people, that'sgoing to be using something like
dictation to brainstorm, or forother people it will be
outlining, for other peopleit'll be drafting.
So I think it's a good idea ifyou've, if you're listening and
(27:30):
you're like this sounds reallycool, maybe just try it and see
what part of the process it canhelp you with.
And, of course, have thatpatience and grace for the
learning curve, because, asSarah said, it will exist and
you will hit hurdles, so don'tbe surprised.
But I do think this sounds likesomething we can all try and,
like you said, we can try rightaway on our phones.
So it's very cool.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, that's what I always encourage authors.
Just pull up your default noteapplication and give it a whirl.
So yeah, I do my characternotes.
It can take over your wholeprocess or just be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaking of tools, tell meabout how dictation works with
things like Scrivener, googleDoc, word Like.
Can we use it with everything?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Oh yeah, basically, anywhere that you can type you
can dictate.
So if you're on your computer,if you're on Windows, I think
it's Command-H pulls up yourdictation function, like that's
the shortcut, and so if you'reon Microsoft Word, you can just
hit that and start speaking yourwords.
It may cut you off, it may drag, it may lag.
You know there's differentthings that you know.
(28:32):
Just be aware of as you'redoing it it's going to behave
differently, but you can prettymuch anywhere you can type, you
can do that.
Google Docs has its ownbuilt-in voice recognition that
you'll use.
And the fun thing that we, likeauthors who do Google Docs that
I discovered is you can stillhave your music playing.
So if you have your musicplaying on your computer in your
(28:52):
earbuds, since Google Docs hasa separate voice recognition
thing, you can still keep thatgoing.
So that's a fun thing.
Otherwise, I just tell authorsif you do music while you're
dictating, just have it on aseparate device, have it on your
phone or have it on yourcomputer.
You know, vice versa, yourtablet to do that With things
(29:14):
like Scrivener again, a lot ofauthors think that it's
Scrivener has its own voicerecognition or dictation.
It's not, it's just using yourdefault.
So whenever you pull upScrivener, if you're on a Mac,
on my Mac, I have just amicrophone on my keyboard and I
just tap that.
Sometimes I have to tap ittwice whenever I'm first doing a
session.
But you tap that, it brings upyour voice recognition.
You begin speaking.
And what's really fun withScrivener is I use the split
(29:35):
screen mode and you can clickbetween the two screens and your
dictation function will followyou and you can keep speaking.
So there's some fun stuff withusing Scrivener and dictation
and that's why I created a freemini course called dictation
plus Scrivener power combo forthose of you who are Scrivener
users.
That's specifically on usingdictation with Scrivener.
(29:55):
So my current method ofdictating is I dictate directly
into my Scrivener iOS app on myphone, so I will just pull that
up, go to the scene I'm workingon, tap the center of the screen
.
It brings up my keyboard, tapthe mic and I start speaking.
So pretty much anywhere thatyour keyboard pops up on your
(30:16):
phone or you have the ability totype on your computer you can
use dictation.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
That is awesome, and so this free little mini course
we're going to link to that inthe show notes.
We're also going to link to afree resource that you're going
to give my audience.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Do you want to talk about that a little bit?
Yeah, so I just created a quickstart guide and it's got some
tools in there, some things forPC users and Mac users, so you
can go explore that.
It does have a punctuation keybut just know, depending on your
device, you may need to sayinstead of new line it may be
new paragraph.
So there's going to be somenuances that you'll learn as
you're getting into your device.
But that's a quick start guideto help you get started with
dictation.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
That's awesome, and we're also going to post some
info about Sarah's course.
She teaches and has a communityaround using dictation to write
, so we'll post informationabout that.
But on this quick start guide,I'm going to put you on the spot
a little bit, Sarah.
If you were to give my audiencewho let's say they're saying,
okay, this sounds interesting, Iwant to try it.
I'm going to get the quickstart guide.
(31:12):
Do you have a little likewhat's a challenge?
What can they do this week tostart implementing?
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I would say pull up your text messages, tap on your
little, where you would normallytype, and hit your dictation
function and dictate a textmessage to your mom or to a
friend, and it doesn't have tobe long, just a sentence or two.
You can tell them what you'redoing.
It's like, hey, I'm dictatingmy first text message and then
do a little cleanup if you needto and hit send.
(31:41):
So just taking action for thefirst time and getting used to
words coming out of your mouthand seeing them appear on the
screen.
So that would be the quickaction that I'd recommend your
authors take.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Love it.
So a little bit of homework isto grab the free guide that
Sarah is providing and also sendyour first text message or
whatever it is with dictation,just to practice.
So I love that so much.
And, sarah, do you want to tellthem a little bit about your
course and community?
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, so fictation so that's my word that I combined
dictating your fiction.
So I love that and my authorslove that they're able to say
that they're fictating.
Authors, or don't bother me,I'm fictating.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
And so.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
I really get to own that.
So that's what the name of thecourse and it's pretty hefty,
several hours long, and I spendtime demonstrating so a lot of
these tools that we talk about.
I share my computer screen andrecorded it and walk you through
the whole process of recordingand transcribe and there's
things like Otterai and, ofcourse, google Docs and
(32:44):
Scrivener.
So I demonstrate on my phoneand my computer a lot of these
tools and then I go into themindset, so the mental.
How do you actually train yourbrain to do dictation, to
dictate your fiction?
Because it is different.
You know I'm encouragingauthors to.
You know, just get used to thetech with going ahead and
sending a text message or anemail or something, but when it
(33:05):
comes time to actually dictateyour fiction, that's where a lot
of authors freeze in makingthat transition.
So I go through exercises andjust take you step by step
through the process.
We go slow of dictating yourfirst scene and then I also talk
about cover.
You know what should you do foryour startup routine, like what
are some things you want tomake sure are in place each time
(33:27):
that you're going to dictateyour fiction and making sure
that you know your tool isworking and that everything is
going to go smoothly for yourwriting session.
So I cover all of that.
A big part of the course as wellis I recorded my whole process
of writing a novella, so a20,000 word novella by dictation
, and I do some commentary inthere and of course I don't.
(33:50):
I didn't post the whole, youknow six hours or whatever that
it took me, but I clipped outthe important bits and just did
some just talking about theprocess of what my mental
process was, what the tech toolsdoing cleanup.
I talk about outlining andusing dictation and outlining.
So basically the entire processand everything you wanted to
know about dictation and youwanted someone to walk through
(34:13):
you with it.
That's what Fictation is, andso that's at fictioncoursescom
forward slash Fictation and Ithink we're also going to have a
special coupon code that youcan use.
So with Savannah we are going tooffer $50 off that course and I
think we could just use thecoupon code, just the acronyms
(34:34):
of the podcast FWME, yep, okay.
So let's just do the couponcode.
So put in the coupon code FWMEfor $50 off the dictation course
.
And I do have a dictation forauthors boot camp that I run a
couple of times a year, sothat's a live event where
authors get to come in and doZoom trainings with me.
(34:57):
We have a Facebook communityand it's just a really good
opportunity for authors tosupport each other on their
dictation journeys.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Yeah, and we'll list all the information for that in
the show notes.
And you know, depending on whenthis airs, maybe you can join
in on the boot camp, or, if wemiss it, maybe you'll just have
to wait for next time.
But either way, sarah has a tonof great resources you can dig
into now and I feel like we needto get you a coffee mug that
says, like the fictation queen,you've got all this stuff, so I
think you need a coffee mug.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
I think I do need one to go with my coffee mug that
says hello Tuesday.
It's been a long week.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, that's how I'm feeling.
I don't know about you, but OK,so all that is so great.
Sarah, is there anything?
If you had to say like one lastparting word of wisdom, no
pressure, what would you tellthe authors who are listening?
Speaker 1 (35:45):
I would tell authors to not be discouraged and not
fall for the thing that yourbrain might tell you of.
We can't do this dictationthing.
We've tried and failed.
It's a wiring thing.
Some people are just moreinclined to this, to speaking
their words, and that's not howyour brain is wired.
So just turn that voice off andknow that you can train your
(36:06):
brain to dictate your fiction.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Love it.
I think we can all train ourbrains to do much more than we
think they're capable ofsometimes.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Dictation included.
Okay, so again, we will link toall Sarah's information in the
show notes.
Thank you so much, sarah, forbeing here.
I am pretty fascinated by thistopic and I think you've
convinced me to try dictating myown fiction.
We'll see.
There's so many things you cando with this.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Absolutely.
It's a powerful tool forauthors to have in their toolkit
, so I love it.
Thank you so much for having meon Savannah.
This has been a joy.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
So that's it for today's episode.
As always, thank you so muchfor tuning in and for showing
your support.
If you want to check out any ofthe links I mentioned in this
episode, you can find them inthe show notes listed in the
description of each episodeinside your podcast player or at
savannahgilbocom forward slashpodcast.
If you're an Apple user, I'dreally appreciate it if you took
(37:03):
a few seconds to leave a ratingand a review.
Your ratings and reviews tellApple that this is a podcast
that's worth listening to and,in turn, your reviews will help
this podcast get in front ofmore fiction writers just like
you.
And while you're there, goahead and hit that follow button
, because there's going to beanother brand new episode next
week, full of actionable tips,tools and strategies to help you
(37:23):
become a better writer.
So I'll see you next week anduntil then, happy writing.
I would tell authors to not be discouraged and not
fall for the thing that yourbrain might tell you of.
We can't do this dictationthing.
We've tried and failed.
It's a wiring thing.
Some people are just moreinclined to this, to speaking
their words, and that's not howyour brain is wired.
So just turn that voice off andknow that you can train your
(00:20):
brain to dictate your fiction.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy
podcast.
My name is Savannah Gilbo andI'm here to help you write a
story that works.
I wanna prove to you thatwriting a novel doesn't have to
be overwhelming, so each week,I'll bring you a brand new
episode with simple, actionableand step-by-step strategies that
you can implement in yourwriting right away.
So, whether you're brand new towriting or more of a seasoned
(00:47):
author looking to improve yourcraft, this podcast is for you.
So pick up a pen and let's getstarted.
In today's episode, I'm divinginto a writing technique that
could transform how you approachyour novel, and that is
dictation.
If you've ever struggled withfinding time to write, battled
perfectionism when staring at ablank page or simply wanted a
(01:08):
healthier way to create yourstories, then this episode is
for you.
I'm joined by a very specialguest.
Her name is Sarah ElizabethSawyer, and she's an author,
writing instructor and the hostof the Confident Fiction Author
podcast.
Sarah has written multiplenovels using dictation and has
helped countless writersincorporate this powerful tool
into their creative process, andin this episode, sarah is going
(01:30):
to share her experience writingnovels using dictation, as well
as some of the surprisingbenefits to using dictation to
write your novel that go beyondjust writing faster.
She's also going to share somepractical tips for getting
started, some insights into howto overcome common obstacles and
how speaking your story mightjust help you finally finish
that manuscript you've beendreaming about.
(01:52):
So, without further ado, let'sdive right into my conversation
with Sarah Elizabeth Sawyer.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I'll actually introduce myself in the words of
our Choctaw language.
I'll actually introduce myselfin the words of our Choctaw
language Alito Sohocha Foyet.
Sarah Elizabeth Sawyer, choctaw, siya Hokke.
Hi, my name is Sarah ElizabethSawyer and I am Choctaw.
I'm a tribal member of theChoctaw Nation of Oklahoma and
I'm an author and digital coursecreator.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Love that so much.
We're going to talk about anexciting topic of dictation and
I think that a lot of writersare going to benefit from our
conversation and they couldbenefit from dictation, whether
it's because they want to writefaster, maybe they have a
chronic illness that makes ithard to show up at their desk
every day, or maybe they'rebattling with perfectionism or
writer's block whatever it isthat for some reason, showing up
(02:41):
and typing the words just feelsreally hard.
So I'm so excited to get intoall of this.
But how did you kind of finddictation?
What made you go?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
to it.
You know it was listening topodcasts and hearing authors at
conferences and stuff talk abouthow they were just rocking it
with dictation.
They were getting in 5,000words, 10,000 words a day, and
they just rambling off and itsounded so easy right, it
sounded so easy to just be ableto speak your fiction instead of
typing and the process ofactually doing that.
(03:11):
So every time I would hear oneof those interviews, every time
I would hear another author whowas just killing it with
dictation, I was like I've gotto do that, I've got to try it.
And so I would try and promptlyfail, like my brain would
freeze up and I was like, okay,my brain just doesn't work that
way.
Great, it works for those otherauthors and they're able to do
it.
I'm just not wired that way.
(03:31):
And so I kept going back to that.
That was probably.
I know.
I did a Facebook post in 2013saying where I was trying Dragon
Dictation on my phone wheneverI first got smartphone and
Dragon came out with their appthat subscription based app and
so I tried it and same thing.
I was like this just isn'tgoing to work.
So for several years I had alot of false starts with
(03:53):
dictation before I finallymastered it.
I guess it was 2019.
I keep trying to track backover that because I never
thought I would be sharing mydictation journey with people.
But looking back at the firstnovel that I dictated all the
way through, that would havebeen 2019.
So it took some years to get itdown.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Wow, yeah, and it's so funny you say stops and
starts, because I've dabbledwith it before.
It's not something I use.
I still like handwriting andtyping and more of those like
tactile things, but for me andtell me if this is true for you
it's almost like I would startto say something that I'm like
that's not right, that's notgood, and then I would.
I would get frustrated, like Ican't do this because what's
(04:31):
coming out isn't working.
Did that happen to you?
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, absolutely Pre-judging yourself.
You know it's like it's fixingto come out your mouth, so it's
oh, it's got to come outperfectly because it feels so.
Like I said, the tactileexperience with typing on the
keyboard backspace is rightthere delete.
I can you know very quickly,highlight and get rid of that
sentence.
But dictation really makes youpush forward and get your
writing done, which is anotherhuge benefit of dictation.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah, and just I should back us up a little bit
because in case you're listeningand you don't know what
dictation is, it's essentiallyyou're typing and your computer,
or you're talking and you'retyping on the computer as you
talk.
Is there another way you woulddescribe it, or did I get it?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, actually, you don't have to type, so you're
just talking.
Now some authors do thatThey'll type at the same time
and they'll speak to get trainedin dictation.
But yeah, it's not, I don't.
My books that I've dictated allof them have been on my phone,
so I never actually dictatereally on my computer and it
just makes me mobile.
I'm able to do it comfortablyfrom my living room or from my
(05:33):
bed and just really get in goodpositions or taking a walk and
being able to get words done.
So you don't have to have akeyboard and a computer there to
get your writing done.
You can just speak your words.
And yes, that's a greatdescription of dictation Instead
of typing them, you're speakingthem.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I love the idea of being mobileas you can write your book.
So we're going to dig into.
I know you have three mainbenefits.
I asked you to summarize andyou're like I have three main
benefits of dictation and itgoes beyond just writing faster.
So will you walk us through thefirst benefit?
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah.
So health and you mentionedthis health is really number one
.
It's really taken over writingfaster.
So a lot of authors come todictation like me, you know,
wanting to be able to rack upthose huge word counts and do it
with ease.
But I have so many authors nowthat come into my trainings and
they're there for the healthbenefits.
(06:24):
They're getting older or theyhave chronic illnesses and
arthritis so many issues thatthey're like I have to do this
or I can't continue writing.
And so health definitely.
And they say sitting is the newsmoking.
We spend so much time justsitting at our computers.
And I tell authors even if youwant to continue dictating at
your computer, totally fine, butif you're able to do it in
(06:47):
twice as fast like I doubled mywriting speed with dictation
that doesn't happen for everyone, but I doubled my writing speed
you're at least cutting yoursitting time in front of your
computer in half for yourwriting time.
So health, huge benefit.
Lots of authors go for walkswhen they're doing their
dictation.
So you're able to get yourexercise in and get your writing
in.
You're not having to sacrificeone or the other.
(07:08):
So if you have an hour to writebut that doesn't leave you time
to exercise or you can walk foran hour, but it doesn't give
you time to write.
You can get an hour of writingand an hour of walking in at the
same time.
So number one really overwriting faster is health.
So number two what I reallyenjoy is just the natural, the
naturalness of telling stories.
(07:29):
I have oral storytellingbackground.
I never did it professionallybut I enjoy telling stories
orally and I think we all startthat way.
We all start with being able totell stories before we can even
write them.
And so, going back to thattradition, I'm a tribal member
of the Choctaw Nation ofOklahoma, so storytelling,
that's how we pass down storiesand preserve them.
(07:50):
So being able to just speak thestories, it's a lot of fun and
it can also give you a reallynatural sounding dialogue.
That's something that someauthors get that benefit of.
We don't write, of course.
You know spot on dialogue whenwe're in fiction, but it still
just gives you that opportunityto hear the words as they're
coming out and even get into thevoice of your character.
(08:13):
So sometimes I will throw in alittle bit of an accent, not too
much, because you don't want tomess up your dictation, but you
can just really role play inthat.
So being able to just orallytell a story huge benefit.
And then the third one that Ireally love is time management.
So the first time I did finallysuccessfully dictate a piece of
(08:33):
fiction it was a backstoryscene of one of the novels that
I was working on and it justlike downloaded in my brain all
at once and I was like I've gotto capture this.
But I also had a sink full ofdishes and I needed to be out
the door in about 20 minutes andI was like, okay, either, I'm
going to capture the scene whichI knew I couldn't, even even if
I sat down and just spent the20 minutes on that, I was like I
(08:55):
can't, I won't be able tocapture all of it, I'll just be
some exercises and some practiceand all.
So let me just hook up my phoneand give it a try.
And so I did it while doingdishes, came back, transcribed
those words and I had over 1,200words in just that 20 minutes
(09:16):
and they would just, it wouldjust have been completely gone,
like I would have not been ableto capture it and have that
backstory.
So that's for me time management.
It allows you to get yourwriting in the little places of
time that you might nototherwise.
If you're doing your pets oryou're doing dishes, you know
you just get to go ahead and getsome writing in, especially
(09:36):
when inspiration strikes.
Those are three top benefitsbeyond writing faster that I
just love about dictation.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
And that's amazing because I heard some things that
are usually top of mind forwriters.
So the time management thing ishuge.
Usually it's like I don't havethe time and now you're like
dictation is a way that we'regoing to help you get some of
that time back.
I also heard you talk about howdictation can make it feel a
little more natural, like whenyou're writing either in your
voice or your character's voice,which is something writers
(10:03):
struggle with, and then it allgoes back.
We can be healthier if we usedictation and we can live longer
to write more books.
So I think all of that isawesome and I'm sure there are
so many other benefits, butthose, I agree, those are
probably the top three mostinteresting, most enticing for
listeners.
Well, I kind of want to go tosome technical questions too.
(10:24):
Maybe you have this planned,but I'm thinking of, like you're
doing the dishes, and it's kindof loud when you're doing the
dishes.
Does any of that stuff get inthe way when you're doing
dictation?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
So there's a couple of things that you can do One,
having a mic and I now have aheadset mic that I would use
whenever I'm out and about orgoing out and feeding my
chickens and stuff.
I can hook that in.
What I used that first timewere just my earbuds, just my
wired earbuds, and I don'trecommend that.
You're not going to get thebest accuracy, but just the fact
that I was able to get thisbackstory scene written that I
(10:58):
knew I wasn't going to go backand edit and publish, I just
wanted to capture it.
That worked for that time.
But that's what I recommend forauthors when you're looking at
time management is getting a mic, and it doesn't have to be
expensive and, honestly, I wrotemy first nine books without a
mic.
I typically don't use a micwith dictation, so I just always
encourage authors you don'thave to make a big financial
(11:19):
investment to get started withyour tools and your tech with
dictation.
So that is one of the things.
Though, if you're going to bewalking, there's a lot of
creative solutions that myauthors are always coming up
with in the boot camps.
It's a lot of fun to see howthey get creative with being
able to make dictation work intheir lifestyle and get their
writing in ways that they neverwere before.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
I bet that's so cool.
And I'm just thinking of someof the writers I know who are
like my most creative ideas comein the shower or when I'm
taking a bath or walking thedogs or whatever.
So I'm sure the opportunitiesto use dictation are endless.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, and I'll just slide that in there.
So one of my good writingfriends, she did dictation in
the shower.
So yeah, we have waterproofphones.
Now you can get a waterproofcase.
But yeah, you get those ideasand whenever they're hit, most
of us typically have our phoneson us, or at least where we can
grab them pretty quick.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Right, yeah, that's so cool.
Ok, and so another techquestion Is there like a
specific program that you use todo this, or are there multiple
programs?
Tell me about that.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, there are so many tools and options available
Savannah now that we have withdoing dictation that we didn't
have 10 years ago or even fiveyears ago.
So back in the day, dragonDictation was our only option.
We had to spend that $600, $700, I think it's currently $700 to
do Dragon Dictation to get that, naturally speaking, and then
(12:40):
we had to train on how to use itand train ourselves to do
dictation what I call dictation,but being able to dictate your
fiction so it was quite aninvestment to even get a
software to do that.
Nowadays there are voice totext apps that you can use.
There are recording apps so youcan record your words, and
that's actually how I wrote myfirst nine books.
(13:02):
I recorded and then the app hada transcription service built
in, and so I was able to do that.
I don't recommend that specificapp.
In fact, I try not to recommendtoo many specific tools
nowadays because they'reconstantly changing and the app
that I use it's no longer workswell, so I don't recommend it.
But that is what I get in therewith my trainings is I give
(13:23):
people you know, let's look atwhat the latest tools are and
then it depends if you're anAndroid or iPhone user, if
you're a Mac or PC, how old orhow new is your technology?
But one thing that all authorscan do.
So I'll just go ahead and giveyou guys just this one simple
thing that pretty much everyoneif you have a smartphone or a
computer, you can do dictation,and that's just using your
(13:45):
built-in speech-to-text optionon your phone or your computer.
So pretty much everyone.
If you pull up a text messageor an email, there's that little
microphone on your keyboard youcan tap that, start speaking
and you are now dictating.
So that's just a quick and easything that pretty much anyone
can do.
The only thing I will give acaution on that, because I've
(14:08):
sent a lot of my author friendsdown that road before I started
doing my trainings and they werelike, oh, this is a mess, oh,
this was terrible, oh, my brainfroze up and I'm like, ah, and
so then they built thatresistance around doing
dictation just like I had.
So I do encourage authors, dopractice, do some training
before you jump right into it.
But if you want to jump rightinto it as far as a tool, you've
(14:30):
got a built-in speech-to-textoption on your phone or your
computer that you can getstarted with.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
That's awesome, and I'd imagine I'm thinking of
practicing.
There are probably so many waysyou can go about that.
Like there are prompts.
You can even just pretendyou're telling a friend about
your story or what would youwant to ask your friend who's
writing?
Like you can just start toimagine all these scenarios and
then just kind of get used toseeing your words come out of
you.
I'd imagine that that's alittle hurdle we all have to get
(14:57):
over if we're going to trydictation, but not something
that's the end of the world,would you agree?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Oh, absolutely, and that's what I do in my bootcamp.
I'm like, okay, before we jumpright into it, let's go through
some exercises.
I always give some assignmentsand I'm like I know everyone's
chomping at the bits, but it'sso important to create those
neural pathways and if you willtake the time to do that and do
that training instead ofbuilding resistance, I mean I
truly believe any author thatdictation can become as natural
(15:24):
to them as typing that it really, once you have dug those neural
trenches and you're able tojust let your words of fiction
flow out of your mouth insteadof out of your fingers, so there
is a big transition there andthat's what I spend a lot of
time working with authors on, sothat they don't have to spend
the years that it took me tomaster dictation dictating my
(15:44):
fiction.
So that's my big goal is totrim down that learning curve.
Let's practice, let's do sometraining so that it's a smoother
transition for you.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, that's awesome.
And so, speaking of learningcurve, is there like talk about
the learning curve when you'regoing from typing to dictating,
and are there any things thatconsistently surprise people
about, either, likeopportunities or challenges?
Talk to me about that.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, I think the I think tech challenge is usually
everyone's first hurdle Justgetting.
I have a lot of older authorsand even younger authors.
I like I said my friend shedidn't realize she could dictate
directly into Scrivener theScrivener iOS app.
So I think once that's why Ifocus on the tech challenges
first, because there are somephones they'll cut off after 30
(16:28):
seconds.
you know you're dictating andthey'll cut off or your computer
will, and so once you just justencourage authors, stick with
it until you find a tool thatworks for you, works for your
device and that you're able touse.
So that's generally the firstthing that authors hit with that
.
The second thing is just havingthat brain freeze.
They got there if they're anoutliner or a pantster, either
(16:50):
way and that's another thing Ilike to share is authors,
whether you're an outliner or apantster, right by the seat of
your pants you can do dictation,but they will have their
outline or they know what scenethey're going to write.
They start their dictationfunction and they just freeze.
They're like how do I actuallylike, how does it, how do I
actually get this fictionalworld out of my mouth?
(17:11):
And so that's something that Isee consistently and that we
really work on, because I don'twant them to create that
resistance of you know how do Ido this.
And so the last thing that Ireally see a lot is just, people
aren't used to their own voice.
I think, like you said, asauthors we're just, we type,
we're in our little writing cave.
I have a sign above my deskthat says I know I'm in my own
(17:33):
little world, but they all knowme here and so we just have that
.
You know, everyone hasdifferent comfort levels, and
coming together in a group ofother authors who are also, you
know, having all of the samestruggles, it's really
empowering for authors to notfeel like they're alone whenever
they speak for the first timeand be able to start dictating
(17:53):
their fiction.
So, yeah, those are some thingsthat I see come up pretty often
, with authors making thattransition.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah, and I think what you just said is really
important too, because it soundslike it's almost like you
should expect that there will behurdles.
It's not going to just be easyto sit down and dictate your
story or anything.
So I like pointing that stuffout too, that if whoever is
listening tries dictation andyou hit one of these hurdles
like Sarah is saying you are sonot alone.
It's part of the process.
So just hang in there if it'ssomething you want to make work
(18:22):
just hang in there if it'ssomething you want to make work.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Absolutely.
That's what I tell authors andI have a lot of them that will
come into my trainings a fewtimes, you know, because they
just they will not give up andthey're not going to give up and
I encourage them.
I was like just keep, keepgoing through the exercises and
I see it.
Finally click for authors.
I've not seen any authors whohaven't been able to do it, if
they just stick with it longenough.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, that's great.
And so another kind oftechnical question, because you
were talking about planners andpantsers Is there a certain part
of the writing, outliningbrainstorming process, even the
editing process, that eitherdictations like perfect for or
doesn't work for?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
The outlining.
I dictate my outlines and it'sso fun because I used to be a
pantster.
I was a seat of the pantswriter and I would do outline.
And then I'm like I would getfrustrated because I wouldn't
stick with my outline.
You know, I would go offtotally different and I'm like,
oh, I wasted all of that timedoing outlining.
So that was always a point offrustration for me.
Nowadays I do outline all of mystories.
(19:20):
I don't do an elaborate outline, but I do outline.
The fun thing about dictationis I'm able to do my outline by
speaking my words, so it feels alot more effortless to do an
outline.
So even if I end up trashing50% of my outline, I don't feel
like I wasted my time, mywriting time, doing an outline
that I wasn't going to usebecause it went so fast with
(19:42):
dictation.
And so, yeah, huge benefit withoutlining and there are ways
that you can use dictation inthe revision process.
But it is really for that firstdraft, to get that first draft
down, get it out and get it downon paper for the editing
process.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah, and I can just my brain's kind of exploding
with ideas because even if,let's say, you have your first
draft written and then you were,I don't know reading through
your first draft, you could havea little side window up where
you're dictating your notes toyourself or things like that.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
So I feel like there are so many opportunities beyond
.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
You know so many creative ways and I think, just
because I've been playing withAI a little bit these days for
business stuff and it's justopening my mind to all these
different ways that we can usetools like AI or dictation or
whatever it is, so I think thisis really cool, okay, so let's,
let's see where do I want to gonow.
We talked about what dictationis, the benefits of it, the
(20:37):
transition between typing andwriting to dictation, and then
you shared how we can easily getstarted on our smartphone for
free.
Basically, we don't even need afancy microphone, right?
Talk to me about timing andbecause we keep talking about
this idea of we can save time,we can write faster with
dictation.
I know that's going to be avery juicy thing for listeners.
(20:57):
So what do we?
What do you mean by that?
What does that look likepractically?
Speaker 1 (21:03):
So very practically, I used to be able to type about
1500 words of fiction per hour.
That was if I was in a seasonthat I was working on my novel.
I would block out about an hourand I could do about 1500 words
and I was like that's great.
I did a war scene one time andI hit 2000 words an hour.
So that was my top writingspeed and I did hit 10,000 words
(21:23):
in a day one time, but it wasvery challenging and it just it
took a lot of effort to get allof that.
It was probably during Nano orsomething.
So you know, with typing,that's about where I land.
I'm not a super fast typer andI don't think real fast with my
fiction sometimes.
So that's where I was at Withdictation.
I average about 3,000 words anhour.
(21:44):
So, and that's just, that's notspeaking fast, that's speaking
slower than anything that I'vedone on this podcast so far.
So it's speaking much slower,it's pausing, it's checking my
outline notes and I hit about3,000 words.
Top speed is 4,000.
Wow, yeah, and my top day onthat's 11,000.
And I had that done in themorning time like early
(22:07):
afternoon I was done with those11,000 words.
So I was on a deadline, but Igot that done and so that's.
You know, on a practical level,that's what it looks like.
I will say what a lot of authorsfind, and what I found with my
3000 words an hour is I wouldend up with this big mess.
So I would have my 3000 wordsand it was great to have that
many, but it was a big mess, andso that's another thing that
(22:31):
really turns authors off fromdictation is okay, it's faster,
but if I have to do all of thiscleanup, is it worth it?
And so I would spend about 50%of my time on cleanup itself.
So if I dictated for 30 minutes, got 1,500 words in, it would
take me another 30 minutes toclean up that 1,500 words and
(22:53):
I'm like, okay, well, I ended upwith the same 1,500 words.
So a couple of things with that.
One is the technology is alwaysgetting better.
It can learn your voice, it canlearn you know if you have an
accent and all.
So there are some things aroundthat.
And then there's just somethings that you can do to have a
cleaner transcription, andthat's what I've done.
(23:13):
I've done a lot of practicewith enunciating my words and
doing I speak, my punctuationand just lots of things that you
can do to have cleanertranscriptions.
And then I encourage authors,right after your writing session
do your cleanup while it'sfresh on your mind.
Do not write an entire noveland not do your cleanup like.
You want it to look as good asif you had typed it and so do
(23:35):
your cleanup.
And now it's about 90 10, so Iwould spend about 90 10.
So if I dictate 3 000 words in50, 55 minutes, I can spend five
or 10 minutes and get mycleanup done.
So it is definitely.
It's still, you know, you doneed to do your cleanup so that
you don't face you know thissome weird things that come
(23:57):
through in the, in thetranscription, but it can get
better with time.
The other thing that I look atit as you still have all of the
other benefits of dictation.
So even if your speed doesn'tincrease or doesn't increase by
that much which it's almostguaranteed that it will you
still have all of the otherbenefits of health and time
management and all the thingsthat we talked about.
(24:18):
So it still makes dictationjust so worth it.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Right, I love all that, and so I'm thinking of.
Something I teach a lot in mycourse is let's say that you're
in the middle of a scene and youdon't know what the name of the
business is, or you don't knowwhat the setting looks like, or
you know certain details and Iteach them, like either put the
letters TK for information tocome and it's really easy to do
a search and find TK or put itin brackets and say come back
(24:44):
and describe the building orwhatever it is that you need to
do.
So how do you do stuff likethat when you're dictating?
Is it as simple as just sayingbrackets, you know, describe the
building later, or tell meabout how you do that it is yeah
, it is.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
You're already a pro Savannah.
So I'd say open bracket andleave myself a note, just like I
did with typing, and that makesit where, yes, I can.
Then whenever I'm doing mycleanup, I'll either take care
of the note then or I'll justI'll save it for my editing.
It's like with cleanup I justwant to be able to know that all
of my text is there, thateverything is readable, and then
go on and leave the notes forthe editing phase.
(25:18):
Because one of the great thingsabout dictation is a fast first
draft, and whether fast meansgetting it done in a week,
getting it done in a yearinstead of 10 years, you know
whatever that means for eachauthor individually, that
doesn't matter it, just itspeeds up the process.
So, like I said, I dictated, Iwould speak my words and they
would be recorded.
I had no option of doing anykind of edits or doing any notes
(25:40):
, and that's why it's also sofast.
So that's when I learned Icould just say open bracket,
leave myself a note, closebracket.
I could just say open bracket,leave myself a note, close
bracket.
I would just say open bracket,name, close bracket, and it just
meant I need to put thatcharacter's name in there,
because I can't remember whatthat character's name was Right,
that's awesome.
So, yeah, I leave myself lots ofnotes with dictating.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Cool, that's awesome.
And I'm thinking too of thewriters who are like you know.
They love that editing phase.
They love having somethingwritten so they can clean it up,
and I'm just imaginingdictation for them would be so
huge right?
It's like you do your littleword, vomit onto your page or
onto your screen, whatever, andthen you get to do that thing.
That's very rewarding for you,which is cleaning up that mess
(26:19):
that you've made.
So I think there's so manybenefits, depending on what kind
of writer you are, when youchoose to use this.
In the process, it seems likethe options and opportunities
are almost limitless.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah, I love what one author and I need to memorize
her name because I quote thisoften but our first drafts are
just shoveling sand in so thatwe can build castles later, and
I love that.
I have that messy first draftand that's.
The fun thing about dictationis you can just vomit on the
page and it's so much easier andmore effortless than typing
that.
Just go ahead and put it all inthere and then go back and edit
(26:53):
it later and then, if you aremore of an edit as you go author
.
I have author friends thatthey're 500 words an hour and
that's totally fine and they'reusing dictation and it's still
speeding up their process, butit's just making it easier and
more effortless for them to gettheir words down.
So yeah it just it gets worseon the page.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
And I think what you said is really important too is
it's almost like we have thesetools like dictation or like
whatever we're using, and thegoal is not to make it harder,
it's to make our jobs easier.
So for some people, that'sgoing to be using something like
dictation to brainstorm, or forother people it will be
outlining, for other peopleit'll be drafting.
So I think it's a good idea ifyou've, if you're listening and
(27:30):
you're like this sounds reallycool, maybe just try it and see
what part of the process it canhelp you with.
And, of course, have thatpatience and grace for the
learning curve, because, asSarah said, it will exist and
you will hit hurdles, so don'tbe surprised.
But I do think this sounds likesomething we can all try and,
like you said, we can try rightaway on our phones.
So it's very cool.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, that's what I always encourage authors.
Just pull up your default noteapplication and give it a whirl.
So yeah, I do my characternotes.
It can take over your wholeprocess or just be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaking of tools, tell meabout how dictation works with
things like Scrivener, googleDoc, word Like.
Can we use it with everything?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Oh yeah, basically, anywhere that you can type you
can dictate.
So if you're on your computer,if you're on Windows, I think
it's Command-H pulls up yourdictation function, like that's
the shortcut, and so if you'reon Microsoft Word, you can just
hit that and start speaking yourwords.
It may cut you off, it may drag, it may lag.
You know there's differentthings that you know.
(28:32):
Just be aware of as you'redoing it it's going to behave
differently, but you can prettymuch anywhere you can type, you
can do that.
Google Docs has its ownbuilt-in voice recognition that
you'll use.
And the fun thing that we, likeauthors who do Google Docs that
I discovered is you can stillhave your music playing.
So if you have your musicplaying on your computer in your
(28:52):
earbuds, since Google Docs hasa separate voice recognition
thing, you can still keep thatgoing.
So that's a fun thing.
Otherwise, I just tell authorsif you do music while you're
dictating, just have it on aseparate device, have it on your
phone or have it on yourcomputer.
You know, vice versa, yourtablet to do that With things
(29:14):
like Scrivener again, a lot ofauthors think that it's
Scrivener has its own voicerecognition or dictation.
It's not, it's just using yourdefault.
So whenever you pull upScrivener, if you're on a Mac,
on my Mac, I have just amicrophone on my keyboard and I
just tap that.
Sometimes I have to tap ittwice whenever I'm first doing a
session.
But you tap that, it brings upyour voice recognition.
You begin speaking.
And what's really fun withScrivener is I use the split
(29:35):
screen mode and you can clickbetween the two screens and your
dictation function will followyou and you can keep speaking.
So there's some fun stuff withusing Scrivener and dictation
and that's why I created a freemini course called dictation
plus Scrivener power combo forthose of you who are Scrivener
users.
That's specifically on usingdictation with Scrivener.
(29:55):
So my current method ofdictating is I dictate directly
into my Scrivener iOS app on myphone, so I will just pull that
up, go to the scene I'm workingon, tap the center of the screen
.
It brings up my keyboard, tapthe mic and I start speaking.
So pretty much anywhere thatyour keyboard pops up on your
(30:16):
phone or you have the ability totype on your computer you can
use dictation.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
That is awesome, and so this free little mini course
we're going to link to that inthe show notes.
We're also going to link to afree resource that you're going
to give my audience.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Do you want to talk about that a little bit?
Yeah, so I just created a quickstart guide and it's got some
tools in there, some things forPC users and Mac users, so you
can go explore that.
It does have a punctuation keybut just know, depending on your
device, you may need to sayinstead of new line it may be
new paragraph.
So there's going to be somenuances that you'll learn as
you're getting into your device.
But that's a quick start guideto help you get started with
dictation.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
That's awesome, and we're also going to post some
info about Sarah's course.
She teaches and has a communityaround using dictation to write
, so we'll post informationabout that.
But on this quick start guide,I'm going to put you on the spot
a little bit, Sarah.
If you were to give my audiencewho let's say they're saying,
okay, this sounds interesting, Iwant to try it.
I'm going to get the quickstart guide.
(31:12):
Do you have a little likewhat's a challenge?
What can they do this week tostart implementing?
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I would say pull up your text messages, tap on your
little, where you would normallytype, and hit your dictation
function and dictate a textmessage to your mom or to a
friend, and it doesn't have tobe long, just a sentence or two.
You can tell them what you'redoing.
It's like, hey, I'm dictatingmy first text message and then
do a little cleanup if you needto and hit send.
(31:41):
So just taking action for thefirst time and getting used to
words coming out of your mouthand seeing them appear on the
screen.
So that would be the quickaction that I'd recommend your
authors take.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Love it.
So a little bit of homework isto grab the free guide that
Sarah is providing and also sendyour first text message or
whatever it is with dictation,just to practice.
So I love that so much.
And, sarah, do you want to tellthem a little bit about your
course and community?
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, so fictation so that's my word that I combined
dictating your fiction.
So I love that and my authorslove that they're able to say
that they're fictating.
Authors, or don't bother me,I'm fictating.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
And so.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
I really get to own that.
So that's what the name of thecourse and it's pretty hefty,
several hours long, and I spendtime demonstrating so a lot of
these tools that we talk about.
I share my computer screen andrecorded it and walk you through
the whole process of recordingand transcribe and there's
things like Otterai and, ofcourse, google Docs and
(32:44):
Scrivener.
So I demonstrate on my phoneand my computer a lot of these
tools and then I go into themindset, so the mental.
How do you actually train yourbrain to do dictation, to
dictate your fiction?
Because it is different.
You know I'm encouragingauthors to.
You know, just get used to thetech with going ahead and
sending a text message or anemail or something, but when it
(33:05):
comes time to actually dictateyour fiction, that's where a lot
of authors freeze in makingthat transition.
So I go through exercises andjust take you step by step
through the process.
We go slow of dictating yourfirst scene and then I also talk
about cover.
You know what should you do foryour startup routine, like what
are some things you want tomake sure are in place each time
(33:27):
that you're going to dictateyour fiction and making sure
that you know your tool isworking and that everything is
going to go smoothly for yourwriting session.
So I cover all of that.
A big part of the course as wellis I recorded my whole process
of writing a novella, so a20,000 word novella by dictation
, and I do some commentary inthere and of course I don't.
(33:50):
I didn't post the whole, youknow six hours or whatever that
it took me, but I clipped outthe important bits and just did
some just talking about theprocess of what my mental
process was, what the tech toolsdoing cleanup.
I talk about outlining andusing dictation and outlining.
So basically the entire processand everything you wanted to
know about dictation and youwanted someone to walk through
(34:13):
you with it.
That's what Fictation is, andso that's at fictioncoursescom
forward slash Fictation and Ithink we're also going to have a
special coupon code that youcan use.
So with Savannah we are going tooffer $50 off that course and I
think we could just use thecoupon code, just the acronyms
(34:34):
of the podcast FWME, yep, okay.
So let's just do the couponcode.
So put in the coupon code FWMEfor $50 off the dictation course
.
And I do have a dictation forauthors boot camp that I run a
couple of times a year, sothat's a live event where
authors get to come in and doZoom trainings with me.
(34:57):
We have a Facebook communityand it's just a really good
opportunity for authors tosupport each other on their
dictation journeys.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Yeah, and we'll list all the information for that in
the show notes.
And you know, depending on whenthis airs, maybe you can join
in on the boot camp, or, if wemiss it, maybe you'll just have
to wait for next time.
But either way, sarah has a tonof great resources you can dig
into now and I feel like we needto get you a coffee mug that
says, like the fictation queen,you've got all this stuff, so I
think you need a coffee mug.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
I think I do need one to go with my coffee mug that
says hello Tuesday.
It's been a long week.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, that's how I'm feeling.
I don't know about you, but OK,so all that is so great.
Sarah, is there anything?
If you had to say like one lastparting word of wisdom, no
pressure, what would you tellthe authors who are listening?
Speaker 1 (35:45):
I would tell authors to not be discouraged and not
fall for the thing that yourbrain might tell you of.
We can't do this dictationthing.
We've tried and failed.
It's a wiring thing.
Some people are just moreinclined to this, to speaking
their words, and that's not howyour brain is wired.
So just turn that voice off andknow that you can train your
(36:06):
brain to dictate your fiction.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Love it.
I think we can all train ourbrains to do much more than we
think they're capable ofsometimes.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Dictation included.
Okay, so again, we will link toall Sarah's information in the
show notes.
Thank you so much, sarah, forbeing here.
I am pretty fascinated by thistopic and I think you've
convinced me to try dictating myown fiction.
We'll see.
There's so many things you cando with this.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Absolutely.
It's a powerful tool forauthors to have in their toolkit
, so I love it.
Thank you so much for having meon Savannah.
This has been a joy.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
So that's it for today's episode.
As always, thank you so muchfor tuning in and for showing
your support.
If you want to check out any ofthe links I mentioned in this
episode, you can find them inthe show notes listed in the
description of each episodeinside your podcast player or at
savannahgilbocom forward slashpodcast.
If you're an Apple user, I'dreally appreciate it if you took
(37:03):
a few seconds to leave a ratingand a review.
Your ratings and reviews tellApple that this is a podcast
that's worth listening to and,in turn, your reviews will help
this podcast get in front ofmore fiction writers just like
you.
And while you're there, goahead and hit that follow button
, because there's going to beanother brand new episode next
week, full of actionable tips,tools and strategies to help you
(37:23):
become a better writer.
So I'll see you next week anduntil then, happy writing.
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