After years of rewriting the same sagging middle and juggling two confusing timelines, Kara Kentley discovered the romance structure secrets that transformed her messy draft into a published novel that sells daily.
Today I'm chatting with Kara Kentley, contemporary romance author of Another Summer and a Notes to Novel graduate, about how learning genre expectations finally helped her finish the book she'd been struggling with for years.
In this episode, you'll hear us talk about things like:
- [07:46] Why her 95,000-word draft had a "sagging middle" that lost readers halfway through (and the two-timeline problem making it worse)
- [11:55] How choosing one timeline and adding dual POV transformed her confused manuscript into a cohesive story
- [15:05] The relief she felt discovering romance novels have specific beats that happen in order—and how this became her roadmap
- [20”15] Kara’s nightmare writing conference experience (and what she learned about starting your book in the right place)
- [35:35] What happened when she launched without reviews or marketing—and still became #1 in her category for two weeks
If you've been struggling to finish your romance novel or any manuscript with structural problems, Kara's journey from pantsed chaos to organized success proves that the right framework can set you free. Press play to discover how romance structure could be the missing piece you need to finally type "The End."
🔗 Links mentioned in this episode:
- Kara Kentley’s website
- Buy Another Summer by Kara Kentley
- Join the Notes to Novel waitlist
- The Complete Writer's Guide to Heroes and Heroines: Sixteen Master Archetypes by Tami D. Cowden, Caro LaFever, & Sue Viders
- Travis Baldree’s article
- I Need A Book Cover
⭐ Follow & Review
If you loved this episode, please take a moment to follow the show and leave a review on Apple Podcasts! Your review will help other writers find this podcast and get the insights they need to finish their books. Thanks for tuning in to The Fiction Writing Made Easy Podcast! See you next week!
FREE GUIDE: 5 Writing Roadblocks Keeping You Stuck (& How To Break Through)
👉 Looking for a transcript? If you’re listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, scroll down below the episode player until you see the transcript.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kara (00:00):
So what happened at the writers conference was that
there was an agent's panel whereyou could submit your first
page and they would critique it.
And I get to the thing andthey're critiquing other
people's first pages and theyspend like five minutes on them
and they get to mine and it sortof starts out like everybody
(00:22):
else's.
And it sort of starts out likeeverybody else's, but then very
quickly one of the agents saysto the moderator this is a good
place to stop and talk about hownot to start a book.
And it was so awful.
And so I sat there for 17minutes.
They had been five minutes oneverybody else but they really
(00:42):
picked apart the first page thatI had sent in and why it was
just bad and not the way tostart a book.
And that was really really hard.
Yeah, and it affected me forseveral months.
It really, like took away myconfidence.
Should I still be writing?
(01:02):
Is this worth it?
Like, if this is what it'sgoing to be like, do I want to?
do this yeah.
Savannah (01:11):
Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy podcast.
My name is Savannah Gilbo andI'm here to help you write a
story that works.
I want to prove to you thatwriting a novel doesn't have to
be overwhelming, so each week,I'll bring you a brand new
episode with simple, actionableand step-by-step strategies that
you can implement in yourwriting right away.
So, whether you're brand new towriting or more of a seasoned
(01:32):
author looking to improve yourcraft, this podcast is for you.
So pick up a pen and let's getstarted.
In today's episode, I'mchatting with Kara Kentley, one
of my Notes to Novel Studentsand the author of Another Summer
.
You're going to hear us talkabout how she transformed her
95,000-word draft with twotimelines, a sagging middle and
missing romance beats, into herpublished debut novel, another
(01:55):
Summer, a book that, at the timeof this recording, has been
selling copies every single day.
You'll hear us talk about whatit was like to delete an entire
timeline from her draft and whyshe made this decision in the
first place.
She's going to share whylearning the romance genre beats
felt like a relief instead of arestriction.
And finally, you'll hear whathappened when she launched her
book with zero reviews and nomarketing plan.
(02:17):
Spoiler alert she still hitnumber one in her category,
which is pretty dang cool.
So if you've ever felt lost inyour manuscript or wondered why
your story loses steam halfwaythrough, this conversation is
going to show you how structurecan actually set your creativity
free, and Kara's story from a95,000 word first draft that
didn't work to a published novelthat sells copies every single
(02:39):
day is hopefully going to reallyinspire you.
Now, real quick, before we divein, I want to read you the back
cover copy of Kara's book, justso you have a little context
for our conversation.
So here's what it says.
Miles and Avery seemed like theperfect couple when they met a
decade ago while working at alakeside resort in Maine.
For one magical summer, theywere like blueberry pancakes and
(03:00):
maple syrup.
But at summer's end, thingsturned sticky.
When Miles abruptly endedthings.
They haven't spoken since.
When the resort's owner suffersa family emergency, both Avery
and Miles return to the lake tohelp open the resort for summer.
After selling her stationarybusiness and leaving a cheating
fiancé, avery is all aboutplaying it safe and she isn't
(03:21):
interested in giving Miles andhis big-dock energy another
chance.
As long as she keeps him at acanoe paddle's distance.
They won't have to dredge uptheir past before she starts her
MBA.
In the fall.
Miles is now a techentrepreneur and semi-famous
serial dater living in New York.
Avery's the only woman who everunderstood him and he's
determined to make up for pasthurts.
(03:41):
If he can remind her ofeverything they had that summer
and prove his commitment, hemight get another chance.
Despite a decade of silence thatstings, avery can't deny Miles
remains the same intelligent,kind-hearted soul who once
showed her the stars.
It'll take another summer tofigure out if they're friends,
lovers, enemies or ghosted exes.
Can they put aside theirheartbreak and help the people
(04:03):
they love without their historyfloating to the surface?
Alright, and then real quick.
One last thing before we jumpin my Notes to Novel course is
opening for enrollment very soon.
If you're ready to finallyfinish your novel with a proven
step-by-step system, make sureyou're on the waitlist at
savannahgilbocom forward slashwaitlist.
Waitlist members get exclusiveearly bird bonuses, first access
(04:25):
to enroll and a few moresurprise bonuses.
I'm keeping secret for now.
One more time that'ssavannagilbocom forward slash
waitlist to be the first to knowwhen enrollment opens for my
Notes to Novel course.
All right, so without furtherado, let's dive right into my
conversation with Kara Kentley.
Kara (04:42):
I had always kind of wondered, probably since about
my 20s, if I could write a book.
Was that something I could do?
And so one day I just decidedthat I would sit down and try
and see what happened.
And this version of AnotherSummer is about 10 versions
(05:02):
later of that first book that Iwrote.
And on release day my releaseday was April 29th I kept saying
to my husband over and over Ialways wondered if I could do
this.
I can't believe I did it.
Savannah (05:14):
Yeah, so funny Dreams turned into reality.
I love it.
Kara (05:18):
Yeah, yeah, and in my other non-writing life I do a
lot of work with nonprofits.
My sort of, you know, whatevercareer or whatever you want to
call it has been with nonprofits, specifically marketing
nonprofits.
Now I work with a localfoundation that gives grants to
(05:42):
local nonprofits and it's reallyfun because I thought I knew
all the nonprofits in mycommunity.
I did not, and there are a lotof amazing, amazing people out
there doing wonderful work forpeople who really need it.
Savannah (05:55):
So that's awesome, what a rewarding career.
And now you tag on author tothat resume, which is so fun.
Yeah, take me back to like yousaid you thought about, maybe I
could be a writer.
And then you're like someday Isat down and just decided to
start.
Where did this idea for anothersummer come from?
Kara (06:12):
So I have had, since I was a kid, terrible insomnia, and
ever since I was young I meanprobably from middle school on I
realized that if I made upstories in my head, I fell
asleep faster.
Savannah (06:27):
Oh, interesting.
Kara (06:28):
And I would make up stories in my head and then
sometimes I the next night I'dbe like man.
That story last night wasreally good.
I'm just going to go back tothat story and continue it.
And this particular storyAnother Summer had been in my
head for, I'd say, a good fouror five months before I sat down
(06:49):
to write it, and my first draftwas very linear, but a lot of
it was already in my head, so Iactually wrote it fairly quickly
.
I think I wrote like 95,000words in about four or five
weeks.
Wow, which was really fastbecause I already knew where the
story was going, and all that.
(07:09):
Then, after I was done, myhusband printed it off at his
office, brought it home and heread it and I read it and he
said I think you should keepgoing.
And at that point I realized Ididn't really know anything
about writing a novel.
I had just written this storythat was in my head and perhaps
I should educate myself a littleon how to write a book 2022, if
(07:45):
you can believe it.
Savannah (07:46):
And so it sounds like you were kind of in this realm
of okay, I did something, Iwrote a draft and now I don't
know what I don't know.
So I need to get some help.
And we did a manuscriptevaluation together.
So I read it and we kind ofcame together to discuss like
here's what you have, here'swhat you want it to be.
And you know, fast forward allthese years.
Later.
Now you have a book, but theoriginal version had two
timelines basically.
So what was that like when A Itold you I don't know if this is
(08:10):
going to work, and then,basically, we have to kind of
restructure this whole thing.
Kara (08:14):
Yeah, first of all, there was also a ton of head hopping.
You're, like that was only justone problem you very kindly did
not mention, but I could feelthat it was very linear.
I also suffered from a saggymiddle and my daughter was
reading that draft those firstcouple drafts I had and she kept
(08:34):
saying like I love this book upto the halfway point and then
it just loses steam for me and Ikept like switching things out
and I couldn't get that right.
And so, yes, so then I came toyou, I took your notes to novel
class, which was great.
That's how we met, and in thereI learned about genre
expectations, which I had notmet, all of the romance
(08:57):
expectations and also, just so,structure of a story.
And I realized that thestructure of this story was not
working.
So when I came to you I knew itwasn't working.
It wasn't like I was like, oh,look at this, it's amazing.
I was really like I need help.
Savannah (09:17):
Is where I was.
Kara (09:19):
And so I think the first thing you told me was you've got
two timelines here and youeither need to pick one.
You really need to pick one andstick most of the book in that
timeline.
And that's when I decided toput it in the present day and
have flashbacks to the past.
Savannah (09:38):
Yeah, and so just to catch listeners up, let's
explain what the two timelinesare.
So you had one that was like 10years prior in the summer, and
then you had a current day,present day, summer, with the
same two characters.
And so I think what weidentified was, like you said,
it was very linear, so it was 10years ago, all the way up until
today, with kind of a gap inthe middle of transitioning.
(10:00):
Those 10 years, right, right,and that's where your daughter
kept getting stuck too, is inthat transition.
Kara (10:05):
Yeah, and she just kept getting stuck too on what I was
doing in the present day.
Yeah, Because I really couldn'tfigure out, like how many part
of the romance genre is you haveto have a happily ever after?
And I couldn't figure out, likehow do I get them in the same
place so they can have a happilyever after?
And one of the things she saidto me she was in film school or
(10:27):
had just graduated.
She said they always told us infilm school, if you create a
world and you don't know what todo with your characters, put
them back in the world.
And that was great advice,because when I started working
with you I was like, okay, let'sput them back in the resort
where they met.
So they had had a terriblebreakup 10 years ago.
How do we get them back in thisresort?
(10:49):
And all these memories comeback up.
Savannah (10:51):
Yeah, it might surprise listeners to know that
we actually stuck with thecurrent timeline or the present
timeline.
So almost everything that yourdaughter really liked we didn't
necessarily get rid of, we justwove it into the story present.
But do you remember what thatwas like emotionally or like
mentally to do that that reallyliked we didn't necessarily get
rid of, we just wove it into thestory present.
But do you remember what thatwas like emotionally or like
mentally to do that?
That's a big ask.
Kara (11:10):
Yeah, well, it is a big ask.
And so much of it was cut.
Yeah, so much of the firstsummer that they have together
was cut.
And they always say like, killyour darlings or whatever.
That was yours, kill yourdarlings or whatever.
And that was a lot of that wasmine and some of that I was
still killing my darlings upuntil almost the final draft.
(11:31):
Yes, yeah, it was painful, butat the same time I don't regret
any of it, as I think, writingthat first summer out, I had a
really good sense of who thesetwo people were Totally and why
the past wounded them and all ofthat.
So, summer out I had a reallygood sense of who these two
people were and why the pastwounded them and all of that.
So it wasn't useless to writeit all out like that.
(11:53):
It was actually very helpful.
Savannah (11:55):
So yeah, One of the things we had talked about too
was you could technically do twotimelines where they both
unfold at the same time, and forwhatever reason we decided not
to do that back in the day andwhy we decided to stick with one
, I think was because we said wewant readers to kind of dip
into their current summer andsay, well, what happened between
them?
Are they going to recover fromthis?
(12:17):
How are they going to deal withthings in this summer?
Right?
Kara (12:20):
Yes, that was a big factor .
The second factor was, as Imentioned, I've had all the head
hopping and we needed to decide.
Somebody's point of view needsto happen here.
How are we going to deal withthat?
And it was pretty clear to me.
That actually was a really easyanswer for me because I felt
like it needed to be dual pointof view.
(12:41):
Yeah, I felt like we neededAvery's perspective and my
perspective, especially when itcame to what had happened
between them and what hadhappened to them since.
And then the other piece of thatbecame okay.
If we have dual timelines andtwo points of view, wow, this is
going to get confusing.
Savannah (13:01):
Yeah, and imagine then having the past also.
That's right.
Yes, something you just said toreminded me.
You said we had to do the twopoint of views because each of
them kind of had a differentperspective on that summer.
Like, yeah, we know that thisbad thing happened, they broke
up, they were both very hurt,but they both had different
reasons of why that thinghappened and takeaways from that
(13:22):
thing happening.
So it was really fun and Ithink this is a great way for
writers to think about their ownstories is like, what is that
reason for having two points ofview and this was a great reason
for you is like there weredifferent realities at that
point and we're coming into thissummer with different
perspectives.
Kara (13:38):
Yeah, and I felt like we really needed Miles's point of
view, since it's a romance.
If we were going to do singlepoint of view, it would have
made sense just to have thatwould have been just Avery.
But I felt like we needed Milespoint of view because Miles has
really gone through some hardstuff, yeah, and we needed his
(13:58):
realization of how that hadaffected him and how it affected
his ability to fall in lovewith someone, and that I thought
was going to be really hard todo from her perspective.
Totally.
Savannah (14:13):
Yeah, because it would have changed the reader's
experience right.
Having Miles's perspective, weunderstand him more than Avery
does, so we can kind of sitthere and say, okay, we're going
to figure this out.
Hang in there, avery, where ifwe just had Avery's perspective,
we might not have liked Milestoo much right away.
Kara (14:33):
Yes, that's exactly right.
In the beginning of the bookthere are a lot of reasons not
to like Miles.
Until you kind of figure out,like you know, what's going on,
he seems a little full ofhimself and all of that, and I
felt like you needed hisperspective on just how badly he
wants this and also how hardhe's trying and it might not be
coming out right, you know.
Yeah, yeah, I think if it hadbeen in a single point of view,
(14:57):
it would have been really alsohard to get Avery over the hump.
That's true.
Should I take this guy back?
Savannah (15:07):
Yeah, but yeah, yeah.
So it just would have created adifferent reading experience,
which is exactly the right wayto think about making these
kinds of decisions.
But it's funny because youmentioned two things I wanted to
dig into.
One is the genre expectations.
So you kind of you knew what aromance was, but you said you
needed to learn more about howto structure it, what those
expectations were, but you saidyou needed to learn more about
how to structure it, what thoseexpectations were, and how to
(15:31):
make the missing key scenes orconventions fit into your story.
So how did learning about thatstuff change?
How?
Kara (15:34):
you approached the writing .
Yeah well, I'm sort of anorganized person anyways and I
really like order.
So for me it was kind of alittle bit of a relief to know
like I need to have theseparticular scenes in this book
and they're going to happen, andthey pretty much always happen
in order, and so I've alreadygot here's my roadmap, now we'll
(15:57):
figure out how to get there.
So that was actually really anice realization.
And then it was funny because Iread a lot of romance and I had
never really picked up on this.
Savannah (16:09):
Yeah, and now you do all the time and now I pick up
on it all the time.
Yeah, that's so funny.
And so the other thing youmentioned too was about
characters, because you had thatoriginal timeline already
written.
You said you knew yourcharacters really well and, like
I agree with you, you did, butwe had to do a lot of character
work.
Still, when it came to thepresent timeline, do you
remember like walking throughall their arcs and how, even up
(16:31):
until the very last draft, wewere like can we sharpen this,
can we make this better?
Kara (16:35):
Yeah, Talk about that a little bit.
Yeah, so I definitely had.
Well, for one thing, I had amuch better handle on Miles than
I did on Avery when it came totheir characters and how they
would handle things and you know, sort of I just had a better
handle on on him than I did onher.
So there was a lot more workthat had to be done on her.
(16:57):
And then, yeah, you know Ithink you would probably agree
with this I tended to go off ontangents that might not have
been in keeping with theircharacters, which is why I
really appreciated working withyou, because you would sometimes
say, hey, why is this happening?
I don't think he would do thishere.
Or, yes, exactly why is thishappening?
(17:17):
Or is this, think he would dothis here?
Or yes, exactly why is thishappening?
Or is this necessary?
And a lot of times the answerwas no.
This is not necessarily.
It was just fun to write.
Savannah (17:26):
Yeah, and sometimes there were things that you had
to try on.
I remember for Avery she was alittle bit like I have to have
my list, I have to be veryorganized, be very structured,
and so we had to try on.
What does that feel like?
And then some things werecongruent with who she was and
some things weren't.
So it was kind of likefiltering things through a, you
(17:46):
know, very, very clear lens thatyou knew who they were.
But we had to try on thedifferent hats.
Kara (17:49):
Yeah, one thing I remember specifically in regards to that
with Avery was in the beginningI had her be a little bit of a
babbler when she saw him,because when she got nervous she
just kept talking and in theend that didn't really work well
.
It didn't do anything for hercharacter.
So, yeah, she ended up being alittle more sure of herself.
(18:12):
Because that's what happenedwith the babbling was she just
sounded all over the place,right.
So we sort of took that out andmade her a little more, a
little more sure of herself, andthat was good.
I bought this book and it has.
It's a very dated book becauseit's gender specific and whatnot
, but it laid out a goodfoundation for here's the sorts
(18:37):
of things like we I think wejust Miles was the professor and
here's the kind of things hewould do.
Here's how he would react tothings.
This book was sort of helpfulin that way of being like oh
okay, that is.
You know, that is somethingMiles would do or it's not so
that that was helpful too.
Just you know, narrowed theplaying field a little not, yeah
(18:59):
, that that was helpful to just,you know, narrowed the playing
field a little, yeah, and Ithink everybody has their craft
books that, like, for whateverreason, resonate with them and I
found that one really helpful.
Savannah (19:08):
Yeah, and I'll link to that so for anyone listening.
It's called the CompleteWriter's Guide to Heroes and
Heroines, the 16 MasterArchetypes, so I will link to
that in the show notes.
And then the other thing Iwanted to ask you, kara, because
you were saying Miles cameeasier to you.
Kara (19:24):
Which character did you relate to the most?
I probably related to Averymore, yeah, which may have been
why I had trouble, you know,because it was like, yeah, like
this would make me mad and thiswould make me mad, yeah, I just
have a big list.
Savannah (19:37):
Yeah, and that's exactly why I asked you because
I find this to be true foranyone listening who might be
struggling with this as wellthat the more similar we are to
our protagonists, the hardertimes.
Sometimes we have seen themobjectively or we just put too
much of our own selves in there,like this is something I'm very
guilty of as well, but I havedefinitely found it's a pattern
(19:57):
the more similar you are, theharder of a time you're going to
have, which makes no sense,right?
Kara (20:02):
Yeah, it doesn't, because you think like, oh, I should be
able to see into everything.
But the truth is that realpeople are much more complex
than fictional people.
Savannah (20:11):
You can't put all of it in there?
Yeah, definitely can't.
So, speaking of conferences,one of the other things I was
going to ask you is that you'reI would say you're a sensitive
person, which I think is one ofthe greatest things about you,
but sometimes sensitivity makesit hard to get feedback and
change things when you're like Iput so much effort into this
and it didn't work out.
So there were would we saythere was a few emotional ups
(20:34):
and downs during this process.
Kara (20:36):
Oh yeah, and one the big one happened at a writer's
conference.
So what happened at thewriter's conference was that
there was an agent's panel whereyou could submit your first
page and they would critique it.
And I get to the thing andthey're critiquing other
people's first pages and theyspend like five minutes on them
(20:57):
and they get to mine and it sortof starts out like everybody
else's.
But then very quickly one ofthe agents says to the moderator
this is a good place to stopand talk about how not to start
a book.
Savannah (21:14):
And first nightmare activated.
Kara (21:16):
It was so awful and so I sat there for 17 minutes.
They had been five minutes oneverybody else, but once I saw
my thing on the screen, Istarted a voice memo, you know.
So they really picked apart thefirst page that I had sent in
and why it was just bad and notthe way to start a book and that
(21:37):
was really, really hard.
It was really hard, yeah, andit really Threw you for a loop.
It did.
It affected me for severalmonths.
It really, like, took away myconfidence.
Should I still be writing?
Is this worth it?
Like, if this is what it'sgoing to be like, do I want?
Savannah (21:59):
to do this.
Kara (22:00):
Yeah, and I think slowly I came to realize that while it
was harsh, they were correct.
The book did not begin in theright place and I think in the
end we decided it really shouldstart with what was at the time
chapter four or five.
Yeah, you know that there was awhole bunch of junk in the
beginning and also that therewas a little bit of a change
(22:24):
there, because it used to bethat romances expected you to
introduce us to the femalecharacter or one character and
then introduce us to the secondcharacter in their own worlds,
and that that would be the firstcouple of chapters, then bring
them together.
That has really changed Now.
(22:45):
The advice that they gave meultimately was that I needed to
drop both these characters rightin the meet cute, and now
that's been a bit of a changeover the last few years.
With romance you see a lot moremeet coots happening right away
.
So that's kind of when what wasgoing on there and yeah, so we
(23:07):
ended up scrapping otherchapters as well because they
didn't sort of really did dropthem right in the action.
Savannah (23:14):
Yeah, and I think some of the things, too, you did
well during that time period islike you took the break when you
needed it.
There were days where you werenot loving anything and you were
like I don't want to keep going, and then there were other days
where it's like maybe I'll justgo slow and you took the time
to figure out what do I reallywant to do?
And was a point where I hadkind of dealt with the feedback.
Kara (23:43):
And well, one of the things that we did was, pretty
soon after that writingconference, I sent the
manuscript to beta readers andthe beta readers then had it for
six weeks, right, yeah, so Ihad six weeks of don't touch
this manuscript because the betareaders are going to also tell
(24:03):
me stuff to change.
Yeah, and the beta readingprocess ended up being a great
thing for me because the betareaders generally liked the book
, you know, and they did havesome suggestions.
They told me what was workingand what wasn't working, and I
really needed to know what wasworking or that there was
(24:25):
something working.
So that was super helpful.
And after the beta readerfeedback came back, then I was
like, okay, now I'm ready to sitdown and use this feedback and
we'll just not worry about whatthe agent said for now.
And we left the beginning ofthe book the way it was and went
back to it later.
Savannah (24:44):
Yes, you know there's a few important things that you
just mentioned.
One of them is, like we learnedin hindsight what kind of
feedback you need to be the mostproductive, and I think this is
something a lot of writersdon't think about, where they
just think I'm going to takewhatever comes my way and the
agents and whoever they mustknow best.
Right, but a lot of us needthat positive feedback to know
what's working, in addition tothe constructive feedback.
Kara (25:06):
Yeah, I'm big on when I give feedback to other writers,
saying you know what you callthe compliment sandwich, where I
start with here's what I loved,here's what I think needs work,
and then I end with here's whatyou do really well, right, I
have a sense of the emotion ofthese characters or whatever it
is, because, like I said, if youget it back and it's all red
(25:29):
lines or whatever, so to speak,discouraging, it's really
discouraging and it's also thenon you to weed out like, okay,
so what did work?
Right.
But I was lucky.
I had really great beta readerswho were like I love this, yeah
, I'm not wild about this.
Yeah, right, this feels datedor whatever you know.
(25:49):
And so I was like, okay, Idon't have to worry about these
parts that they liked.
What I have to worry about arethese parts that you know, and
there are trends with betareaders.
I think you should get morethan one.
Savannah (26:05):
There were some things that every single one of them
flagged and then I was like,okay, that's a problem, yeah,
and things that every single oneof them loved, like Paulson.
Kara (26:10):
Yeah, no one of them didn't like Paulson, but it
wasn't that she didn't like him,she just said I'd get rid of
him Like he's, only in a couplescenes.
Let's get rid of him LikeElaine.
Yeah, exactly, so that, andlike you said, that helped me
know when I went to do hire aline editor and a proofreader to
say I like to know what'sworking and what's not working.
Savannah (26:34):
Yeah, and so let's talk about that in a second.
Because somewhere between themoment of going to that
conference and getting thefeedback, and getting the beta
reader feedback and actuallyreally finishing the book, you
decided that you were not goingto pursue traditional publishing
, which was your original goal.
So how did that change comeabout?
Kara (26:51):
Yeah.
So I mean, I think originally Ijust was like I'm going to, you
know, query agents and whatever, because that's what you do.
Yeah, like I, my brother,self-published a book, but I
didn't really know that muchabout it, or you know.
So what happened was I was kindof watching a bunch of things
(27:14):
from the sidelines.
I was in a group of people forbeta.
My beta readers were all tryingto get agents, yeah, and they
were posting all theirrejections on this Discord.
We were on and I was like, wow,man, this is harsh.
I'm not sure I'm cut out forday in and day out of getting
rejections, because that is partof querying.
(27:35):
You know, not everyone is goingto love your book.
The first agent who reads itprobably isn't going to pick it
up, those kind of things, and Iwasn't sure I was cut out for
that.
Savannah (27:50):
And then I wanted to deal with it, Right Cause at
some point you're like I justdon't know if this is how I want
to spend my time.
Kara (27:53):
Yes, it's a lot of time because you'll probably spend a
year, maybe 18 months, queryingagents.
Then the agent's going to haveyou edit the book, you know, to
where they feel like they canput it on sub.
Now you're on sub and you're onsub for a year maybe, and if a
publisher picks up your booktoday, it's not coming out for
another two years and I was likeI don't want to wait that long,
(28:17):
that's a long time.
I'm a little bit impatient andI was like that's a long time.
What ultimately happened was wefinished the manuscript for
another summer.
I finished it in September, Ithink, or September of last year
.
The writing conference same onewith the agents.
I went back to it in October.
I pitched the book to an agentthere.
(28:39):
But this writing conference hashour-long classes and there are
four classes during each hourthat you can pick from.
So I only went to publishingclasses.
I went to querying classes,agent classes.
I went to one with an editorwho picks up things from
submissions.
She worked, I think, forBerkeley.
(28:59):
I also went to someself-publishing classes to
figure out how they did theirthing.
I went to a marketing classwhere they had a panel of
self-published authors andpublished authors, and was
shocked to learn how littlesupport these published authors
were getting for marketing andthe basic.
Over the course of the weekend,I just came to the realization
(29:23):
that the self-publishing peopleseemed to be having a lot of fun
.
Yes, they were working hard,but they were in control of all
of that and I learned a lot fromthem.
Like, you need to have a goodcover, you need to make this
book look professional.
And that's when I came back fromthat and said you know, I think
(29:44):
I'm going to self-publish this,because one of the things I
think you really have to thinkabout as a writer is what is
your goal here?
Because everybody's goal is notI'm going to have an agent and
I'm going to be a bestseller.
Some people are writing a bookbecause they want their friends
to read it, or they want justtheir family to read it.
Right, I mean, they just wantto write a book because they
(30:04):
want their friends to read it,or they want just their family
to read it.
Right, I mean, they just wantto write a book.
Or they just want to write abook and they don't care whether
it gets out there.
My goal, I would say, was Iwant to publish this book.
I think it would be fun ifsomeone I don't know read my
book.
Yeah, that's kind of where I was.
Yeah, and so I wasn't.
I had never thought, oh, I'mgoing to be on the bestseller
(30:26):
list and I'll have a book tourand all this.
I just didn't.
That wasn't really my goal.
So my goal could beaccomplished by self-publishing.
Yeah, and so I was like, okay,I'm going to self-publish.
I would say, the big thing forme was that marketing seminar,
because I was like, boy, if I'mgoing to have to market my own
(30:47):
book, I think I want it to bemine.
Yeah, what's?
Savannah (30:50):
the point then right.
Kara (30:51):
Yeah, there's a myth out there that, like, the publisher
is going to do all the marketingfor you and you're just going
to show up at events and signbooks, and that you know it does
sound glamorous, but a lot oftraditionally published authors
work very hard to market theirbooks, and so do self-published
authors, and I thought, you knowwhat, if I'm going to have to
(31:13):
do it, anyways, I'll beself-published.
Savannah (31:16):
Yeah, I'll control it.
It'll be more fun for me Morefreedom.
Kara (31:19):
And so from there I read there's an article out there I
think it was on Medium, byTravis Baldry, who wrote Legends
and Lattes, and he was veryopen about how he self published
that book.
And again, I didn't think I wasgoing to have the.
You know, I didn't think I was.
I think he in the end gotpicked up by an agent, but I
(31:41):
didn't think that was going tohappen to me.
But I really appreciated howtransparent he was about the
process and he really broke itdown well for me and step by
step, and so I kind of took alook at that, read it and said,
okay, now I have, I have a listof how to do this and I'll just
start.
Savannah (32:01):
Yeah, and we will link to that in the show notes for
anyone who's curious.
Kara (32:05):
Yeah.
So you know his big thing wasthe cover.
He was really into covers.
So then I said, okay, I got toget a good cover.
Savannah (32:15):
So around that time you were looking at cover
designers, you also.
This is when you linked up withyour line editor, your copy
editor.
Yes, so talk through, becauseyou said earlier that line
editing was pretty intense andit was for multiple reasons.
I remember it was like duringthe holiday window.
Yes, it was just a lot of hardwork.
That's a totally differentbrain than your creative brain.
Yes, talk through what that waslike.
Kara (32:37):
So I had hired the line editor already when I think my
book was with the line editorthe month of October, yeah, and
they returned it to me onNovember 1st.
They said it would be great ifyou I was also using the same
group, two Birds or I was usingthem for my proofreading as well
(33:00):
.
Someone else from them wasgoing to proofread it.
But they said it would be greatif you could return this book
to us on December 1st.
And I don't work very fast.
So I knew a month wasn't enoughtime for me, even in a downtime
, right.
But it's the holidays and I gotpeople coming for Thanksgiving
and I knew that wasn't going towork.
So I said how about I give itto you in early January, because
(33:25):
I need more time?
Even with that, it was a crunch.
Savannah (33:28):
Yeah, I was really why like what were like the.
If we had to pick a fewtakeaways from your line editing
, what were some things thatyou're like I now I'm never
going to do that again because Iknow better after all these
revisions.
Kara (33:41):
Repeated words was really the big part of it.
That just really.
It was like, oh my God, theserepeated words are everywhere
and it's funny how you just havewords you go to yeah, you can
try all you want not to repeatwords as an author.
You're gonna repeat words, yeah, and that's their job to catch
them.
So I went through themanuscript Pretty much in
(34:04):
November.
They had made notes like thissentence isn't clear, did you
mean this or did you mean this?
So a lot of it was clearingthings up in clarity or also
clunkiness.
So there were sometimes wherethe sentence made more sense if
I just shortened it a little.
So that part I got through.
(34:26):
Even that was kind of hardbecause, again, like I said, I
do well when there's positivefeedback, but that's not their
job.
Their job is to say like, hey,this isn't working or I don't
understand what she meant here.
I was lucky.
They did point out a coupleinconsistencies, but I didn't
have anything big.
So I finished going through allof that.
(34:46):
Then I said, okay, I'm going totackle these repeated words and
I'll do.
I'll just, you know, sit downand do seven or eight repeated
words a day.
And then that went much slowerbecause, like you said, when you
have to reorder a sentence, ittakes some time.
Savannah (35:03):
Yeah, it's kind of like a you're knocking over a
domino and then the whole thingstarts falling apart and you're
like wait a minute, yeah.
So then you got through thatand that I know that was a slog.
And then you know fast forward,you've got your cover, you
found a great cover designer,and then come April you're
published.
Kara (35:19):
Yeah, so well, I had a proofread in there, I had a
great cover designer and mycover is gorgeous and that was a
really fun process.
The cover design wasfascinating yeah, the whole
process.
And then, yes, and then Ipublished it.
Savannah (35:36):
So that was exciting and so that was in late April
and I always like to ask like,what was that publishing week
like?
Was it different than youthought?
Was it crazy?
Tell us about it.
Kara (35:48):
Yes, it was different than I thought, because I had a
family member have an emergencyin February.
That was a long term care issue.
I had an injury to my shoulders, and so I just wasn't able to
do things like put together astreet team.
I had pre-orders up but like Iwasn't promoting it, I just
(36:13):
didn't.
There were too many otherthings going on in my personal
life for me to devote much timeto the fact that this book was
coming out.
Savannah (36:20):
Yeah, which before we started recording you said
actually some good things havehappened since then, even though
your plans didn't all the waycome to fruition.
Kara (36:27):
Yeah.
And so what happened in thecourse of that was I was feeling
like, oh, I'm just doing thisall wrong.
I don't have a street team, Ihaven't sent out ARCs, I didn't
have time to do any of that,yeah.
Then one day I was on threadsand I saw someone responded to
this thread and said debuts arefor finding your readers.
(36:50):
Book tours come later.
And that struck me.
I was like, okay, I'm going tobe okay, because my goal is to
find my readers Exactly, andthat can happen anytime.
That's just what I told myselfcalm down, that can happen
anytime.
So my book got released withoutmuch fanfare.
It was the greatest day ever.
Savannah (37:09):
Well, okay, let's back up though, because you said
daughters read it, friends readit, right, so there was fanfare,
but it was like personalfanfare.
Kara (37:18):
Yeah, but the day the book came out, there were no reviews
of it.
I wasn't that focused on howmany copies that it sold or
whatever.
And people kept texting me andsaying congratulations and
friends called me to say theycouldn't believe I'd done it and
they'd ordered their copy andmy daughter, her friends, all
(37:40):
had ordered it and they were allreading it.
They were reading it during theday I mean, I don't know if
they were reading it at work orwhat, but they were reading it
during the day.
And I was getting these livetexts of like, oh my gosh, like
I cannot believe this happened,you know, or whatever.
And I was like, wow, it's likeout there and people are reading
(38:00):
it and they're like having funreading it and they're excited
about it.
And so it just felt great.
Yeah, what a surprise.
Huh, yeah, just felt great,like I didn't feel any pressure
and I thought you know what?
There'll be time when I canmarket this later.
I'm just going to soak this in,yeah, you know.
Then I kept saying to myhusband I can't believe I did
this.
Savannah (38:19):
Yeah, this yeah.
And especially, you know yougot so clear on your goals and
you're like I just want someoneto read it.
That's not me, or you know aclose relative and it's
happening.
I mean, it's happening now andI think that's so cool.
Kara (38:31):
Yeah, so, and I put it out there and I you know
(39:22):
no-transcript, that's what I'msaying there were silver linings
to like this delay, because ithad started getting noticed and,
like I said, like thisbookstore, I took out a couple
Instagram ads and it's justslowly been gaining momentum and
(39:43):
I've been really thrilled.
I mean, I didn't expect this,but I'm selling books every day.
Savannah (39:49):
That's great, and it was just included in a roundup
you were telling me.
Kara (39:53):
Yes, I got an email this morning from IngramSpark that
they have a bookshoporg page andthey did a special beach read
section and they put about 25books on there, I think, and
they picked mine.
Yeah, that's so cool.
And so see, I think some of thatmight not have happened had I
(40:15):
not had all those sales.
And one of the things that goesalong with this is they've also
said they've put it in aspecial catalog type thing that
they send out to independentbookstores.
So, and I've been working ongetting it in independent
bookstores.
Some have carried it and somehaven't gotten back to me, but
I've been working on that.
(40:36):
And then I've been doing formarketing.
I've been doing some ads andyou know just kind of I've been
doing some ads and you know justkind of seeing what works, I've
been testing a lot of stuff,you know.
So I sort of do a test ofsomething one week, see what
that does.
And I go on threads a lotbecause there are a lot of
people talking about what worksfor them marketing wise, yeah,
(40:57):
and so I love that you're notputting a lot of pressure on it.
Savannah (41:00):
You're just kind of saying my life is a little
hectic right now and I'm doingmy best, and look what's coming
out of it Still amazing things.
Kara (41:06):
Yeah, no, I feel really fortunate and really I went away
for a week to Maine tophotograph birds.
I went to a bird photographycamp, which I know sounds nuts
but it was super cool.
But I was on an island and Ididn't do any marketing the
entire seven days I was on thisisland and when I got off the
(41:27):
island I've been selling booksevery day.
Savannah (41:30):
Oh my gosh, what a feeling.
Kara (41:31):
You know.
So that's I, and I really am sograteful for my readers because
I've discovered readers thatyou know I don't know these
people and they're out therepromoting my book, they're
reading my book, they're tellingtheir friends about my book or
posting about it on social media, and that's you know.
That's special, that's justbeen really special and really
(41:55):
exciting.
Savannah (41:56):
Yeah, how cool.
Well, what a journey all theway from.
If we think about when we met,from July 2022 to April, what
was it?
29, 2025.
I mean a long journey and a lotof work.
There was a lot of work allthose years.
If you were kind of like tolook back over what was that?
Three, three-ish years.
What was, like, the mostimportant lesson that you
(42:17):
learned?
Either about writing a book,bringing a book to life, or
about yourself as a writer.
Kara (42:22):
Well, I would say okay, there's one thing.
I mentioned Allie Carterearlier and I follow her on
threads and I learned thislesson late, but it applies to
so many things in life anyways.
So a while back there was aconversation about what they
called moving the needle inpublishing, in other words,
(42:42):
marketing your book and gettingit out there, and the
conversation really was abouthow authors from marginalized
communities have a harder timewith that, and one of the things
that she said in a thread thatI thought was such great advice
for anybody.
She said when someone tells youthey've moved the needle I'm
(43:05):
paraphrasing here but whensomeone tells you they've moved
the needle, your questionshouldn't be how your question
should be do we have the sameneedle?
Interesting, and that is such avaluable thing in publishing
because I think you're gonnameet all kinds of people.
(43:25):
Like I was talking about goalsearlier, their goal might not be
the same as yours.
On to that for yourself andsaying what about this is going
to mean the most to me and whatabout what I'm doing is
(43:46):
important to me, is reallyimportant as you go through this
, because everybody's not goingto be hoping for the same thing
you're hoping for for themselves.
So you know, there's somepeople out there who they really
want to be at the top of thebestseller list, and that's
great.
I mean, that'd be fantastic,right?
Everybody would love that.
(44:08):
That was not my goal along, andso I feel like I've far
surpassed any goal that I hadfor myself and that feels really
good.
And it also feels like whateverhappens from here, moving
forward is okay, right?
Yeah, icing on the cake, it'sicing on the cake, or whatever.
(44:28):
So I feel like that.
Like I said, that's a lesson Ilearned way too late.
I learned that lesson too late,but it came actually at a
really good time for me.
Yeah, and so You're ready tohear it.
Yes, exactly, and when I wasalso ready to live by it.
Yeah Right, Because we're allimpressionable to some degree
(44:50):
and if we're talking to somebodyand they're saying, oh, you
know, you haven't made it unlessyou do X, Y, Z, it's natural
for us to be like you're right.
Oh yeah, I better do that.
Savannah (45:00):
Yeah, you know, but if your needle's different, I love
that too.
I think it's so important forso many things.
It could even be the method ofhow, like, if your book doesn't
line up with Save the Cat, butit lines up with Hero's Journey
or whatever right, it's likethey could apply to so many
different things and it willhelp us avoid shiny object
syndrome.
Kara (45:19):
Yeah, I think that's you know, there's so many books
published every day all the time, right, and the goal for me was
let's go find my readers.
And I'm still working on that,like I'm a lifelong thing.
(45:41):
I feel like, right, my book isa summer book, so I have till
the end of summer I find myreaders, I mean, and that you
know they might come back nextsummer.
Savannah (45:45):
Yeah, well, speaking of, you're working on book two,
so does it feel different thistime around?
Do you feel more confident inthings?
Talk about that.
Kara (45:53):
Yes, and I think that's big with your debut in
self-publishing is a lot tolearn.
Savannah (46:00):
There's a lot you don't know.
There is a lot If you think youknow it.
Things go wrong and you learnall kinds of lessons.
Kara (46:07):
Oh yeah, and the other thing is there's no one great
resource for how to do it, or atleast I didn't find it.
I found with each step I washaving to really pick and choose
, and there were a lot ofquestions I had that I could
never find the answers to.
Yeah, it's hard.
You know I'm sure there's aself-publishing book out there
(46:28):
that maybe would have answeredthem, but I don't know because
the stuff is changing constantly.
Right Is the other problem,like these platforms are
changing.
So, yes, I think it's nice tohave been through it and now I
know how it works.
And now I know how it works,and now I know what I would do.
Again, I mean one thing I thinkthat's another thing that's
(46:52):
important with self-publishingis or at least it was for my
book.
I worked as hard as I could tomake sure this book looked like
a traditionally published book.
Yeah, I think it does.
It does.
To make sure this book lookedlike a traditionally published
book.
Yeah, and I think it does.
It does, and I think that thathas helped me.
You know, like I think I neededall the yes, I had to pay
(47:14):
people to edit it and I had topay a cover designer.
I needed all of them.
There's no way I could havedone this myself.
People say writing is asolitary practice.
I would actually tweak that andsay drafting is a solitary
practice or can be.
Getting it to the finish lineis different.
You can draft the book byyourself Once you've drafted it.
(47:38):
I wouldn't recommend that, bythe way.
Yeah, but you can do that, butonce you've drafted it, you're
going to need other people'shelp from there on out.
Yeah, and yeah, I had a greatteam of people that helped me
edit it, make a cover, do myinterior, you know, those things
(47:58):
matter, I think.
Savannah (47:59):
And for listeners.
We will link to the ones shementioned in the show notes, but
we'll also link to where youcan get Another Summer by Kara,
so look for that.
Any final words ofencouragement for aspiring
romance writers, Kara.
Kara (48:12):
Well, I would say this for aspiring writers, anyways, for
all aspiring writers go do it,right.
If you're wondering if you cando this, find out, yeah.
And if you don't, you know, youmay find out that, like hey, I
don't actually enjoy this.
I'm like I've always wonderedif I could write a book and I
don't enjoy this.
But there you have your answeryeah.
(48:34):
And the second piece of adviceis read a lot on your genre.
And the third piece is keepgoing, keep going when it's when
it's hard, don't give up.
Savannah (48:43):
Yeah, and I will say, kara, you went through the highs
and lows you you've probablyhad, you know, at points, one of
the most traumatic experiencesI've ever seen a writer go
through.
So if you can do it, otherpeople can do it too, and that's
why I think your story is superinspiring and people are going
to love this great behind thescenes look you've given them
today.
So thank you very much.
And where can people find youon the internet?
Kara (49:05):
So I'm on mostly Instagram .
My website is caracantlycom andthere's a link on there for
various ways to order my book,because everybody has a favorite
way to get a book right, andhopefully this will answer this.
You know I have.
You can order signed copiesfrom me, or you can, you know,
(49:27):
go to any of the retailers, oryou can, you know, has the
information for you to order itfrom your local favorite indie
bookstore.
Savannah (49:36):
Love that, and you also will give people a sneak
peek of the first chapter ifthey sign up for your email list
, right, yes?
Kara (49:41):
If you sign up for my newsletter, you get a link to
read the first chapter.
Fabulous so the first chapterthat works?
Savannah (49:48):
Yeah, not the one that got the response at the
conference.
Yeah, although wouldn't that beso fun to see that someday like
in comparison.
But anyway, we will link to allof that in the show notes and
thank you again so much, kara,for coming, for coming on.
I think your story is so cooland I'm so glad that we are,
like now behind the publish dateand we can officially celebrate
(50:08):
everything.
Kara (50:09):
Yes, thank you, savannah.
It was fun to come on.
Savannah (50:13):
All right.
So that's it for this episodeof the Fiction Writing Made Easy
podcast.
Head over to savannahgilbocomforward slash podcast for the
complete show notes, includingthe resources I mentioned today,
as well as bonus materials tohelp you implement what you've
learned, and if you're ready toget more personalized guidance
for your specific writing stage,whether you're just starting
(50:33):
out, stuck somewhere in themiddle of a draft, drowning in
revisions, or getting ready topublish, take my free 30-second
quiz at savannahgilbocom forwardslash quiz.
You'll get a customized podcastplaylist that'll meet you right
where you're at and help youget to your next big milestone.
Last but not least, make sureto follow this podcast in your
podcast player of choice,because I'll be back next week
(50:54):
with another episode full ofactionable tips, tools and
strategies to help you become abetter writer.
Until then, happy writing.
So what happened at the writers conference was that
there was an agent's panel whereyou could submit your first
page and they would critique it.
And I get to the thing andthey're critiquing other
people's first pages and theyspend like five minutes on them
and they get to mine and it sortof starts out like everybody
(00:22):
else's.
And it sort of starts out likeeverybody else's, but then very
quickly one of the agents saysto the moderator this is a good
place to stop and talk about hownot to start a book.
And it was so awful.
And so I sat there for 17minutes.
They had been five minutes oneverybody else but they really
(00:42):
picked apart the first page thatI had sent in and why it was
just bad and not the way tostart a book.
And that was really really hard.
Yeah, and it affected me forseveral months.
It really, like took away myconfidence.
Should I still be writing?
(01:02):
Is this worth it?
Like, if this is what it'sgoing to be like, do I want to?
do this yeah.
Savannah (01:11):
Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy podcast.
My name is Savannah Gilbo andI'm here to help you write a
story that works.
I want to prove to you thatwriting a novel doesn't have to
be overwhelming, so each week,I'll bring you a brand new
episode with simple, actionableand step-by-step strategies that
you can implement in yourwriting right away.
So, whether you're brand new towriting or more of a seasoned
(01:32):
author looking to improve yourcraft, this podcast is for you.
So pick up a pen and let's getstarted.
In today's episode, I'mchatting with Kara Kentley, one
of my Notes to Novel Studentsand the author of Another Summer
.
You're going to hear us talkabout how she transformed her
95,000-word draft with twotimelines, a sagging middle and
missing romance beats, into herpublished debut novel, another
(01:55):
Summer, a book that, at the timeof this recording, has been
selling copies every single day.
You'll hear us talk about whatit was like to delete an entire
timeline from her draft and whyshe made this decision in the
first place.
She's going to share whylearning the romance genre beats
felt like a relief instead of arestriction.
And finally, you'll hear whathappened when she launched her
book with zero reviews and nomarketing plan.
(02:17):
Spoiler alert she still hitnumber one in her category,
which is pretty dang cool.
So if you've ever felt lost inyour manuscript or wondered why
your story loses steam halfwaythrough, this conversation is
going to show you how structurecan actually set your creativity
free, and Kara's story from a95,000 word first draft that
didn't work to a published novelthat sells copies every single
(02:39):
day is hopefully going to reallyinspire you.
Now, real quick, before we divein, I want to read you the back
cover copy of Kara's book, justso you have a little context
for our conversation.
So here's what it says.
Miles and Avery seemed like theperfect couple when they met a
decade ago while working at alakeside resort in Maine.
For one magical summer, theywere like blueberry pancakes and
(03:00):
maple syrup.
But at summer's end, thingsturned sticky.
When Miles abruptly endedthings.
They haven't spoken since.
When the resort's owner suffersa family emergency, both Avery
and Miles return to the lake tohelp open the resort for summer.
After selling her stationarybusiness and leaving a cheating
fiancé, avery is all aboutplaying it safe and she isn't
(03:21):
interested in giving Miles andhis big-dock energy another
chance.
As long as she keeps him at acanoe paddle's distance.
They won't have to dredge uptheir past before she starts her
MBA.
In the fall.
Miles is now a techentrepreneur and semi-famous
serial dater living in New York.
Avery's the only woman who everunderstood him and he's
determined to make up for pasthurts.
(03:41):
If he can remind her ofeverything they had that summer
and prove his commitment, hemight get another chance.
Despite a decade of silence thatstings, avery can't deny Miles
remains the same intelligent,kind-hearted soul who once
showed her the stars.
It'll take another summer tofigure out if they're friends,
lovers, enemies or ghosted exes.
Can they put aside theirheartbreak and help the people
(04:03):
they love without their historyfloating to the surface?
Alright, and then real quick.
One last thing before we jumpin my Notes to Novel course is
opening for enrollment very soon.
If you're ready to finallyfinish your novel with a proven
step-by-step system, make sureyou're on the waitlist at
savannahgilbocom forward slashwaitlist.
Waitlist members get exclusiveearly bird bonuses, first access
(04:25):
to enroll and a few moresurprise bonuses.
I'm keeping secret for now.
One more time that'ssavannagilbocom forward slash
waitlist to be the first to knowwhen enrollment opens for my
Notes to Novel course.
All right, so without furtherado, let's dive right into my
conversation with Kara Kentley.
Kara (04:42):
I had always kind of wondered, probably since about
my 20s, if I could write a book.
Was that something I could do?
And so one day I just decidedthat I would sit down and try
and see what happened.
And this version of AnotherSummer is about 10 versions
(05:02):
later of that first book that Iwrote.
And on release day my releaseday was April 29th I kept saying
to my husband over and over Ialways wondered if I could do
this.
I can't believe I did it.
Savannah (05:14):
Yeah, so funny Dreams turned into reality.
I love it.
Kara (05:18):
Yeah, yeah, and in my other non-writing life I do a
lot of work with nonprofits.
My sort of, you know, whatevercareer or whatever you want to
call it has been with nonprofits, specifically marketing
nonprofits.
Now I work with a localfoundation that gives grants to
(05:42):
local nonprofits and it's reallyfun because I thought I knew
all the nonprofits in mycommunity.
I did not, and there are a lotof amazing, amazing people out
there doing wonderful work forpeople who really need it.
Savannah (05:55):
So that's awesome, what a rewarding career.
And now you tag on author tothat resume, which is so fun.
Yeah, take me back to like yousaid you thought about, maybe I
could be a writer.
And then you're like someday Isat down and just decided to
start.
Where did this idea for anothersummer come from?
Kara (06:12):
So I have had, since I was a kid, terrible insomnia, and
ever since I was young I meanprobably from middle school on I
realized that if I made upstories in my head, I fell
asleep faster.
Savannah (06:27):
Oh, interesting.
Kara (06:28):
And I would make up stories in my head and then
sometimes I the next night I'dbe like man.
That story last night wasreally good.
I'm just going to go back tothat story and continue it.
And this particular storyAnother Summer had been in my
head for, I'd say, a good fouror five months before I sat down
(06:49):
to write it, and my first draftwas very linear, but a lot of
it was already in my head, so Iactually wrote it fairly quickly
.
I think I wrote like 95,000words in about four or five
weeks.
Wow, which was really fastbecause I already knew where the
story was going, and all that.
(07:09):
Then, after I was done, myhusband printed it off at his
office, brought it home and heread it and I read it and he
said I think you should keepgoing.
And at that point I realized Ididn't really know anything
about writing a novel.
I had just written this storythat was in my head and perhaps
I should educate myself a littleon how to write a book 2022, if
(07:45):
you can believe it.
Savannah (07:46):
And so it sounds like you were kind of in this realm
of okay, I did something, Iwrote a draft and now I don't
know what I don't know.
So I need to get some help.
And we did a manuscriptevaluation together.
So I read it and we kind ofcame together to discuss like
here's what you have, here'swhat you want it to be.
And you know, fast forward allthese years.
Later.
Now you have a book, but theoriginal version had two
timelines basically.
So what was that like when A Itold you I don't know if this is
(08:10):
going to work, and then,basically, we have to kind of
restructure this whole thing.
Kara (08:14):
Yeah, first of all, there was also a ton of head hopping.
You're, like that was only justone problem you very kindly did
not mention, but I could feelthat it was very linear.
I also suffered from a saggymiddle and my daughter was
reading that draft those firstcouple drafts I had and she kept
(08:34):
saying like I love this book upto the halfway point and then
it just loses steam for me and Ikept like switching things out
and I couldn't get that right.
And so, yes, so then I came toyou, I took your notes to novel
class, which was great.
That's how we met, and in thereI learned about genre
expectations, which I had notmet, all of the romance
(08:57):
expectations and also, just so,structure of a story.
And I realized that thestructure of this story was not
working.
So when I came to you I knew itwasn't working.
It wasn't like I was like, oh,look at this, it's amazing.
I was really like I need help.
Savannah (09:17):
Is where I was.
Kara (09:19):
And so I think the first thing you told me was you've got
two timelines here and youeither need to pick one.
You really need to pick one andstick most of the book in that
timeline.
And that's when I decided toput it in the present day and
have flashbacks to the past.
Savannah (09:38):
Yeah, and so just to catch listeners up, let's
explain what the two timelinesare.
So you had one that was like 10years prior in the summer, and
then you had a current day,present day, summer, with the
same two characters.
And so I think what weidentified was, like you said,
it was very linear, so it was 10years ago, all the way up until
today, with kind of a gap inthe middle of transitioning.
(10:00):
Those 10 years, right, right,and that's where your daughter
kept getting stuck too, is inthat transition.
Kara (10:05):
Yeah, and she just kept getting stuck too on what I was
doing in the present day.
Yeah, Because I really couldn'tfigure out, like how many part
of the romance genre is you haveto have a happily ever after?
And I couldn't figure out, likehow do I get them in the same
place so they can have a happilyever after?
And one of the things she saidto me she was in film school or
(10:27):
had just graduated.
She said they always told us infilm school, if you create a
world and you don't know what todo with your characters, put
them back in the world.
And that was great advice,because when I started working
with you I was like, okay, let'sput them back in the resort
where they met.
So they had had a terriblebreakup 10 years ago.
How do we get them back in thisresort?
(10:49):
And all these memories comeback up.
Savannah (10:51):
Yeah, it might surprise listeners to know that
we actually stuck with thecurrent timeline or the present
timeline.
So almost everything that yourdaughter really liked we didn't
necessarily get rid of, we justwove it into the story present.
But do you remember what thatwas like emotionally or like
mentally to do that that reallyliked we didn't necessarily get
rid of, we just wove it into thestory present.
But do you remember what thatwas like emotionally or like
mentally to do that?
That's a big ask.
Kara (11:10):
Yeah, well, it is a big ask.
And so much of it was cut.
Yeah, so much of the firstsummer that they have together
was cut.
And they always say like, killyour darlings or whatever.
That was yours, kill yourdarlings or whatever.
And that was a lot of that wasmine and some of that I was
still killing my darlings upuntil almost the final draft.
(11:31):
Yes, yeah, it was painful, butat the same time I don't regret
any of it, as I think, writingthat first summer out, I had a
really good sense of who thesetwo people were Totally and why
the past wounded them and all ofthat.
So, summer out I had a reallygood sense of who these two
people were and why the pastwounded them and all of that.
So it wasn't useless to writeit all out like that.
(11:53):
It was actually very helpful.
Savannah (11:55):
So yeah, One of the things we had talked about too
was you could technically do twotimelines where they both
unfold at the same time, and forwhatever reason we decided not
to do that back in the day andwhy we decided to stick with one
, I think was because we said wewant readers to kind of dip
into their current summer andsay, well, what happened between
them?
Are they going to recover fromthis?
(12:17):
How are they going to deal withthings in this summer?
Right?
Kara (12:20):
Yes, that was a big factor .
The second factor was, as Imentioned, I've had all the head
hopping and we needed to decide.
Somebody's point of view needsto happen here.
How are we going to deal withthat?
And it was pretty clear to me.
That actually was a really easyanswer for me because I felt
like it needed to be dual pointof view.
(12:41):
Yeah, I felt like we neededAvery's perspective and my
perspective, especially when itcame to what had happened
between them and what hadhappened to them since.
And then the other piece of thatbecame okay.
If we have dual timelines andtwo points of view, wow, this is
going to get confusing.
Savannah (13:01):
Yeah, and imagine then having the past also.
That's right.
Yes, something you just said toreminded me.
You said we had to do the twopoint of views because each of
them kind of had a differentperspective on that summer.
Like, yeah, we know that thisbad thing happened, they broke
up, they were both very hurt,but they both had different
reasons of why that thinghappened and takeaways from that
(13:22):
thing happening.
So it was really fun and Ithink this is a great way for
writers to think about their ownstories is like, what is that
reason for having two points ofview and this was a great reason
for you is like there weredifferent realities at that
point and we're coming into thissummer with different
perspectives.
Kara (13:38):
Yeah, and I felt like we really needed Miles's point of
view, since it's a romance.
If we were going to do singlepoint of view, it would have
made sense just to have thatwould have been just Avery.
But I felt like we needed Milespoint of view because Miles has
really gone through some hardstuff, yeah, and we needed his
(13:58):
realization of how that hadaffected him and how it affected
his ability to fall in lovewith someone, and that I thought
was going to be really hard todo from her perspective.
Totally.
Savannah (14:13):
Yeah, because it would have changed the reader's
experience right.
Having Miles's perspective, weunderstand him more than Avery
does, so we can kind of sitthere and say, okay, we're going
to figure this out.
Hang in there, avery, where ifwe just had Avery's perspective,
we might not have liked Milestoo much right away.
Kara (14:33):
Yes, that's exactly right.
In the beginning of the bookthere are a lot of reasons not
to like Miles.
Until you kind of figure out,like you know, what's going on,
he seems a little full ofhimself and all of that, and I
felt like you needed hisperspective on just how badly he
wants this and also how hardhe's trying and it might not be
coming out right, you know.
Yeah, yeah, I think if it hadbeen in a single point of view,
(14:57):
it would have been really alsohard to get Avery over the hump.
That's true.
Should I take this guy back?
Savannah (15:07):
Yeah, but yeah, yeah.
So it just would have created adifferent reading experience,
which is exactly the right wayto think about making these
kinds of decisions.
But it's funny because youmentioned two things I wanted to
dig into.
One is the genre expectations.
So you kind of you knew what aromance was, but you said you
needed to learn more about howto structure it, what those
expectations were, but you saidyou needed to learn more about
how to structure it, what thoseexpectations were, and how to
(15:31):
make the missing key scenes orconventions fit into your story.
So how did learning about thatstuff change?
How?
Kara (15:34):
you approached the writing .
Yeah well, I'm sort of anorganized person anyways and I
really like order.
So for me it was kind of alittle bit of a relief to know
like I need to have theseparticular scenes in this book
and they're going to happen, andthey pretty much always happen
in order, and so I've alreadygot here's my roadmap, now we'll
(15:57):
figure out how to get there.
So that was actually really anice realization.
And then it was funny because Iread a lot of romance and I had
never really picked up on this.
Savannah (16:09):
Yeah, and now you do all the time and now I pick up
on it all the time.
Yeah, that's so funny.
And so the other thing youmentioned too was about
characters, because you had thatoriginal timeline already
written.
You said you knew yourcharacters really well and, like
I agree with you, you did, butwe had to do a lot of character
work.
Still, when it came to thepresent timeline, do you
remember like walking throughall their arcs and how, even up
(16:31):
until the very last draft, wewere like can we sharpen this,
can we make this better?
Kara (16:35):
Yeah, Talk about that a little bit.
Yeah, so I definitely had.
Well, for one thing, I had amuch better handle on Miles than
I did on Avery when it came totheir characters and how they
would handle things and you know, sort of I just had a better
handle on on him than I did onher.
So there was a lot more workthat had to be done on her.
(16:57):
And then, yeah, you know Ithink you would probably agree
with this I tended to go off ontangents that might not have
been in keeping with theircharacters, which is why I
really appreciated working withyou, because you would sometimes
say, hey, why is this happening?
I don't think he would do thishere.
Or, yes, exactly why is thishappening?
(17:17):
Or is this, think he would dothis here?
Or yes, exactly why is thishappening?
Or is this necessary?
And a lot of times the answerwas no.
This is not necessarily.
It was just fun to write.
Savannah (17:26):
Yeah, and sometimes there were things that you had
to try on.
I remember for Avery she was alittle bit like I have to have
my list, I have to be veryorganized, be very structured,
and so we had to try on.
What does that feel like?
And then some things werecongruent with who she was and
some things weren't.
So it was kind of likefiltering things through a, you
(17:46):
know, very, very clear lens thatyou knew who they were.
But we had to try on thedifferent hats.
Kara (17:49):
Yeah, one thing I remember specifically in regards to that
with Avery was in the beginningI had her be a little bit of a
babbler when she saw him,because when she got nervous she
just kept talking and in theend that didn't really work well
.
It didn't do anything for hercharacter.
So, yeah, she ended up being alittle more sure of herself.
(18:12):
Because that's what happenedwith the babbling was she just
sounded all over the place,right.
So we sort of took that out andmade her a little more, a
little more sure of herself, andthat was good.
I bought this book and it has.
It's a very dated book becauseit's gender specific and whatnot
, but it laid out a goodfoundation for here's the sorts
(18:37):
of things like we I think wejust Miles was the professor and
here's the kind of things hewould do.
Here's how he would react tothings.
This book was sort of helpfulin that way of being like oh
okay, that is.
You know, that is somethingMiles would do or it's not so
that that was helpful too.
Just you know, narrowed theplaying field a little not, yeah
(18:59):
, that that was helpful to just,you know, narrowed the playing
field a little, yeah, and Ithink everybody has their craft
books that, like, for whateverreason, resonate with them and I
found that one really helpful.
Savannah (19:08):
Yeah, and I'll link to that so for anyone listening.
It's called the CompleteWriter's Guide to Heroes and
Heroines, the 16 MasterArchetypes, so I will link to
that in the show notes.
And then the other thing Iwanted to ask you, kara, because
you were saying Miles cameeasier to you.
Kara (19:24):
Which character did you relate to the most?
I probably related to Averymore, yeah, which may have been
why I had trouble, you know,because it was like, yeah, like
this would make me mad and thiswould make me mad, yeah, I just
have a big list.
Savannah (19:37):
Yeah, and that's exactly why I asked you because
I find this to be true foranyone listening who might be
struggling with this as wellthat the more similar we are to
our protagonists, the hardertimes.
Sometimes we have seen themobjectively or we just put too
much of our own selves in there,like this is something I'm very
guilty of as well, but I havedefinitely found it's a pattern
(19:57):
the more similar you are, theharder of a time you're going to
have, which makes no sense,right?
Kara (20:02):
Yeah, it doesn't, because you think like, oh, I should be
able to see into everything.
But the truth is that realpeople are much more complex
than fictional people.
Savannah (20:11):
You can't put all of it in there?
Yeah, definitely can't.
So, speaking of conferences,one of the other things I was
going to ask you is that you'reI would say you're a sensitive
person, which I think is one ofthe greatest things about you,
but sometimes sensitivity makesit hard to get feedback and
change things when you're like Iput so much effort into this
and it didn't work out.
So there were would we saythere was a few emotional ups
(20:34):
and downs during this process.
Kara (20:36):
Oh yeah, and one the big one happened at a writer's
conference.
So what happened at thewriter's conference was that
there was an agent's panel whereyou could submit your first
page and they would critique it.
And I get to the thing andthey're critiquing other
people's first pages and theyspend like five minutes on them
(20:57):
and they get to mine and it sortof starts out like everybody
else's.
But then very quickly one ofthe agents says to the moderator
this is a good place to stopand talk about how not to start
a book.
Savannah (21:14):
And first nightmare activated.
Kara (21:16):
It was so awful and so I sat there for 17 minutes.
They had been five minutes oneverybody else, but once I saw
my thing on the screen, Istarted a voice memo, you know.
So they really picked apart thefirst page that I had sent in
and why it was just bad and notthe way to start a book and that
(21:37):
was really, really hard.
It was really hard, yeah, andit really Threw you for a loop.
It did.
It affected me for severalmonths.
It really, like, took away myconfidence.
Should I still be writing?
Is this worth it?
Like, if this is what it'sgoing to be like, do I want?
Savannah (21:59):
to do this.
Kara (22:00):
Yeah, and I think slowly I came to realize that while it
was harsh, they were correct.
The book did not begin in theright place and I think in the
end we decided it really shouldstart with what was at the time
chapter four or five.
Yeah, you know that there was awhole bunch of junk in the
beginning and also that therewas a little bit of a change
(22:24):
there, because it used to bethat romances expected you to
introduce us to the femalecharacter or one character and
then introduce us to the secondcharacter in their own worlds,
and that that would be the firstcouple of chapters, then bring
them together.
That has really changed Now.
(22:45):
The advice that they gave meultimately was that I needed to
drop both these characters rightin the meet cute, and now
that's been a bit of a changeover the last few years.
With romance you see a lot moremeet coots happening right away
.
So that's kind of when what wasgoing on there and yeah, so we
(23:07):
ended up scrapping otherchapters as well because they
didn't sort of really did dropthem right in the action.
Savannah (23:14):
Yeah, and I think some of the things, too, you did
well during that time period islike you took the break when you
needed it.
There were days where you werenot loving anything and you were
like I don't want to keep going, and then there were other days
where it's like maybe I'll justgo slow and you took the time
to figure out what do I reallywant to do?
And was a point where I hadkind of dealt with the feedback.
Kara (23:43):
And well, one of the things that we did was, pretty
soon after that writingconference, I sent the
manuscript to beta readers andthe beta readers then had it for
six weeks, right, yeah, so Ihad six weeks of don't touch
this manuscript because the betareaders are going to also tell
(24:03):
me stuff to change.
Yeah, and the beta readingprocess ended up being a great
thing for me because the betareaders generally liked the book
, you know, and they did havesome suggestions.
They told me what was workingand what wasn't working, and I
really needed to know what wasworking or that there was
(24:25):
something working.
So that was super helpful.
And after the beta readerfeedback came back, then I was
like, okay, now I'm ready to sitdown and use this feedback and
we'll just not worry about whatthe agent said for now.
And we left the beginning ofthe book the way it was and went
back to it later.
Savannah (24:44):
Yes, you know there's a few important things that you
just mentioned.
One of them is, like we learnedin hindsight what kind of
feedback you need to be the mostproductive, and I think this is
something a lot of writersdon't think about, where they
just think I'm going to takewhatever comes my way and the
agents and whoever they mustknow best.
Right, but a lot of us needthat positive feedback to know
what's working, in addition tothe constructive feedback.
Kara (25:06):
Yeah, I'm big on when I give feedback to other writers,
saying you know what you callthe compliment sandwich, where I
start with here's what I loved,here's what I think needs work,
and then I end with here's whatyou do really well, right, I
have a sense of the emotion ofthese characters or whatever it
is, because, like I said, if youget it back and it's all red
(25:29):
lines or whatever, so to speak,discouraging, it's really
discouraging and it's also thenon you to weed out like, okay,
so what did work?
Right.
But I was lucky.
I had really great beta readerswho were like I love this, yeah
, I'm not wild about this.
Yeah, right, this feels datedor whatever you know.
(25:49):
And so I was like, okay, Idon't have to worry about these
parts that they liked.
What I have to worry about arethese parts that you know, and
there are trends with betareaders.
I think you should get morethan one.
Savannah (26:05):
There were some things that every single one of them
flagged and then I was like,okay, that's a problem, yeah,
and things that every single oneof them loved, like Paulson.
Kara (26:10):
Yeah, no one of them didn't like Paulson, but it
wasn't that she didn't like him,she just said I'd get rid of
him Like he's, only in a couplescenes.
Let's get rid of him LikeElaine.
Yeah, exactly, so that, andlike you said, that helped me
know when I went to do hire aline editor and a proofreader to
say I like to know what'sworking and what's not working.
Savannah (26:34):
Yeah, and so let's talk about that in a second.
Because somewhere between themoment of going to that
conference and getting thefeedback, and getting the beta
reader feedback and actuallyreally finishing the book, you
decided that you were not goingto pursue traditional publishing
, which was your original goal.
So how did that change comeabout?
Kara (26:51):
Yeah.
So I mean, I think originally Ijust was like I'm going to, you
know, query agents and whatever, because that's what you do.
Yeah, like I, my brother,self-published a book, but I
didn't really know that muchabout it, or you know.
So what happened was I was kindof watching a bunch of things
(27:14):
from the sidelines.
I was in a group of people forbeta.
My beta readers were all tryingto get agents, yeah, and they
were posting all theirrejections on this Discord.
We were on and I was like, wow,man, this is harsh.
I'm not sure I'm cut out forday in and day out of getting
rejections, because that is partof querying.
(27:35):
You know, not everyone is goingto love your book.
The first agent who reads itprobably isn't going to pick it
up, those kind of things, and Iwasn't sure I was cut out for
that.
Savannah (27:50):
And then I wanted to deal with it, Right Cause at
some point you're like I justdon't know if this is how I want
to spend my time.
Kara (27:53):
Yes, it's a lot of time because you'll probably spend a
year, maybe 18 months, queryingagents.
Then the agent's going to haveyou edit the book, you know, to
where they feel like they canput it on sub.
Now you're on sub and you're onsub for a year maybe, and if a
publisher picks up your booktoday, it's not coming out for
another two years and I was likeI don't want to wait that long,
(28:17):
that's a long time.
I'm a little bit impatient andI was like that's a long time.
What ultimately happened was wefinished the manuscript for
another summer.
I finished it in September, Ithink, or September of last year
.
The writing conference same onewith the agents.
I went back to it in October.
I pitched the book to an agentthere.
(28:39):
But this writing conference hashour-long classes and there are
four classes during each hourthat you can pick from.
So I only went to publishingclasses.
I went to querying classes,agent classes.
I went to one with an editorwho picks up things from
submissions.
She worked, I think, forBerkeley.
(28:59):
I also went to someself-publishing classes to
figure out how they did theirthing.
I went to a marketing classwhere they had a panel of
self-published authors andpublished authors, and was
shocked to learn how littlesupport these published authors
were getting for marketing andthe basic.
Over the course of the weekend,I just came to the realization
(29:23):
that the self-publishing peopleseemed to be having a lot of fun
.
Yes, they were working hard,but they were in control of all
of that and I learned a lot fromthem.
Like, you need to have a goodcover, you need to make this
book look professional.
And that's when I came back fromthat and said you know, I think
(29:44):
I'm going to self-publish this,because one of the things I
think you really have to thinkabout as a writer is what is
your goal here?
Because everybody's goal is notI'm going to have an agent and
I'm going to be a bestseller.
Some people are writing a bookbecause they want their friends
to read it, or they want justtheir family to read it.
Right, I mean, they just wantto write a book because they
(30:04):
want their friends to read it,or they want just their family
to read it.
Right, I mean, they just wantto write a book.
Or they just want to write abook and they don't care whether
it gets out there.
My goal, I would say, was Iwant to publish this book.
I think it would be fun ifsomeone I don't know read my
book.
Yeah, that's kind of where I was.
Yeah, and so I wasn't.
I had never thought, oh, I'mgoing to be on the bestseller
(30:26):
list and I'll have a book tourand all this.
I just didn't.
That wasn't really my goal.
So my goal could beaccomplished by self-publishing.
Yeah, and so I was like, okay,I'm going to self-publish.
I would say, the big thing forme was that marketing seminar,
because I was like, boy, if I'mgoing to have to market my own
(30:47):
book, I think I want it to bemine.
Yeah, what's?
Savannah (30:50):
the point then right.
Kara (30:51):
Yeah, there's a myth out there that, like, the publisher
is going to do all the marketingfor you and you're just going
to show up at events and signbooks, and that you know it does
sound glamorous, but a lot oftraditionally published authors
work very hard to market theirbooks, and so do self-published
authors, and I thought, you knowwhat, if I'm going to have to
(31:13):
do it, anyways, I'll beself-published.
Savannah (31:16):
Yeah, I'll control it.
It'll be more fun for me Morefreedom.
Kara (31:19):
And so from there I read there's an article out there I
think it was on Medium, byTravis Baldry, who wrote Legends
and Lattes, and he was veryopen about how he self published
that book.
And again, I didn't think I wasgoing to have the.
You know, I didn't think I was.
I think he in the end gotpicked up by an agent, but I
(31:41):
didn't think that was going tohappen to me.
But I really appreciated howtransparent he was about the
process and he really broke itdown well for me and step by
step, and so I kind of took alook at that, read it and said,
okay, now I have, I have a listof how to do this and I'll just
start.
Savannah (32:01):
Yeah, and we will link to that in the show notes for
anyone who's curious.
Kara (32:05):
Yeah.
So you know his big thing wasthe cover.
He was really into covers.
So then I said, okay, I got toget a good cover.
Savannah (32:15):
So around that time you were looking at cover
designers, you also.
This is when you linked up withyour line editor, your copy
editor.
Yes, so talk through, becauseyou said earlier that line
editing was pretty intense andit was for multiple reasons.
I remember it was like duringthe holiday window.
Yes, it was just a lot of hardwork.
That's a totally differentbrain than your creative brain.
Yes, talk through what that waslike.
Kara (32:37):
So I had hired the line editor already when I think my
book was with the line editorthe month of October, yeah, and
they returned it to me onNovember 1st.
They said it would be great ifyou I was also using the same
group, two Birds or I was usingthem for my proofreading as well
(33:00):
.
Someone else from them wasgoing to proofread it.
But they said it would be greatif you could return this book
to us on December 1st.
And I don't work very fast.
So I knew a month wasn't enoughtime for me, even in a downtime
, right.
But it's the holidays and I gotpeople coming for Thanksgiving
and I knew that wasn't going towork.
So I said how about I give itto you in early January, because
(33:25):
I need more time?
Even with that, it was a crunch.
Savannah (33:28):
Yeah, I was really why like what were like the.
If we had to pick a fewtakeaways from your line editing
, what were some things thatyou're like I now I'm never
going to do that again because Iknow better after all these
revisions.
Kara (33:41):
Repeated words was really the big part of it.
That just really.
It was like, oh my God, theserepeated words are everywhere
and it's funny how you just havewords you go to yeah, you can
try all you want not to repeatwords as an author.
You're gonna repeat words, yeah, and that's their job to catch
them.
So I went through themanuscript Pretty much in
(34:04):
November.
They had made notes like thissentence isn't clear, did you
mean this or did you mean this?
So a lot of it was clearingthings up in clarity or also
clunkiness.
So there were sometimes wherethe sentence made more sense if
I just shortened it a little.
So that part I got through.
(34:26):
Even that was kind of hardbecause, again, like I said, I
do well when there's positivefeedback, but that's not their
job.
Their job is to say like, hey,this isn't working or I don't
understand what she meant here.
I was lucky.
They did point out a coupleinconsistencies, but I didn't
have anything big.
So I finished going through allof that.
(34:46):
Then I said, okay, I'm going totackle these repeated words and
I'll do.
I'll just, you know, sit downand do seven or eight repeated
words a day.
And then that went much slowerbecause, like you said, when you
have to reorder a sentence, ittakes some time.
Savannah (35:03):
Yeah, it's kind of like a you're knocking over a
domino and then the whole thingstarts falling apart and you're
like wait a minute, yeah.
So then you got through thatand that I know that was a slog.
And then you know fast forward,you've got your cover, you
found a great cover designer,and then come April you're
published.
Kara (35:19):
Yeah, so well, I had a proofread in there, I had a
great cover designer and mycover is gorgeous and that was a
really fun process.
The cover design wasfascinating yeah, the whole
process.
And then, yes, and then Ipublished it.
Savannah (35:36):
So that was exciting and so that was in late April
and I always like to ask like,what was that publishing week
like?
Was it different than youthought?
Was it crazy?
Tell us about it.
Kara (35:48):
Yes, it was different than I thought, because I had a
family member have an emergencyin February.
That was a long term care issue.
I had an injury to my shoulders, and so I just wasn't able to
do things like put together astreet team.
I had pre-orders up but like Iwasn't promoting it, I just
(36:13):
didn't.
There were too many otherthings going on in my personal
life for me to devote much timeto the fact that this book was
coming out.
Savannah (36:20):
Yeah, which before we started recording you said
actually some good things havehappened since then, even though
your plans didn't all the waycome to fruition.
Kara (36:27):
Yeah.
And so what happened in thecourse of that was I was feeling
like, oh, I'm just doing thisall wrong.
I don't have a street team, Ihaven't sent out ARCs, I didn't
have time to do any of that,yeah.
Then one day I was on threadsand I saw someone responded to
this thread and said debuts arefor finding your readers.
(36:50):
Book tours come later.
And that struck me.
I was like, okay, I'm going tobe okay, because my goal is to
find my readers Exactly, andthat can happen anytime.
That's just what I told myselfcalm down, that can happen
anytime.
So my book got released withoutmuch fanfare.
It was the greatest day ever.
Savannah (37:09):
Well, okay, let's back up though, because you said
daughters read it, friends readit, right, so there was fanfare,
but it was like personalfanfare.
Kara (37:18):
Yeah, but the day the book came out, there were no reviews
of it.
I wasn't that focused on howmany copies that it sold or
whatever.
And people kept texting me andsaying congratulations and
friends called me to say theycouldn't believe I'd done it and
they'd ordered their copy andmy daughter, her friends, all
(37:40):
had ordered it and they were allreading it.
They were reading it during theday I mean, I don't know if
they were reading it at work orwhat, but they were reading it
during the day.
And I was getting these livetexts of like, oh my gosh, like
I cannot believe this happened,you know, or whatever.
And I was like, wow, it's likeout there and people are reading
(38:00):
it and they're like having funreading it and they're excited
about it.
And so it just felt great.
Yeah, what a surprise.
Huh, yeah, just felt great,like I didn't feel any pressure
and I thought you know what?
There'll be time when I canmarket this later.
I'm just going to soak this in,yeah, you know.
Then I kept saying to myhusband I can't believe I did
this.
Savannah (38:19):
Yeah, this yeah.
And especially, you know yougot so clear on your goals and
you're like I just want someoneto read it.
That's not me, or you know aclose relative and it's
happening.
I mean, it's happening now andI think that's so cool.
Kara (38:31):
Yeah, so, and I put it out there and I you know
(39:22):
no-transcript, that's what I'msaying there were silver linings
to like this delay, because ithad started getting noticed and,
like I said, like thisbookstore, I took out a couple
Instagram ads and it's justslowly been gaining momentum and
(39:43):
I've been really thrilled.
I mean, I didn't expect this,but I'm selling books every day.
Savannah (39:49):
That's great, and it was just included in a roundup
you were telling me.
Kara (39:53):
Yes, I got an email this morning from IngramSpark that
they have a bookshoporg page andthey did a special beach read
section and they put about 25books on there, I think, and
they picked mine.
Yeah, that's so cool.
And so see, I think some of thatmight not have happened had I
(40:15):
not had all those sales.
And one of the things that goesalong with this is they've also
said they've put it in aspecial catalog type thing that
they send out to independentbookstores.
So, and I've been working ongetting it in independent
bookstores.
Some have carried it and somehaven't gotten back to me, but
I've been working on that.
(40:36):
And then I've been doing formarketing.
I've been doing some ads andyou know just kind of I've been
doing some ads and you know justkind of seeing what works, I've
been testing a lot of stuff,you know.
So I sort of do a test ofsomething one week, see what
that does.
And I go on threads a lotbecause there are a lot of
people talking about what worksfor them marketing wise, yeah,
(40:57):
and so I love that you're notputting a lot of pressure on it.
Savannah (41:00):
You're just kind of saying my life is a little
hectic right now and I'm doingmy best, and look what's coming
out of it Still amazing things.
Kara (41:06):
Yeah, no, I feel really fortunate and really I went away
for a week to Maine tophotograph birds.
I went to a bird photographycamp, which I know sounds nuts
but it was super cool.
But I was on an island and Ididn't do any marketing the
entire seven days I was on thisisland and when I got off the
(41:27):
island I've been selling booksevery day.
Savannah (41:30):
Oh my gosh, what a feeling.
Kara (41:31):
You know.
So that's I, and I really am sograteful for my readers because
I've discovered readers thatyou know I don't know these
people and they're out therepromoting my book, they're
reading my book, they're tellingtheir friends about my book or
posting about it on social media, and that's you know.
That's special, that's justbeen really special and really
(41:55):
exciting.
Savannah (41:56):
Yeah, how cool.
Well, what a journey all theway from.
If we think about when we met,from July 2022 to April, what
was it?
29, 2025.
I mean a long journey and a lotof work.
There was a lot of work allthose years.
If you were kind of like tolook back over what was that?
Three, three-ish years.
What was, like, the mostimportant lesson that you
(42:17):
learned?
Either about writing a book,bringing a book to life, or
about yourself as a writer.
Kara (42:22):
Well, I would say okay, there's one thing.
I mentioned Allie Carterearlier and I follow her on
threads and I learned thislesson late, but it applies to
so many things in life anyways.
So a while back there was aconversation about what they
called moving the needle inpublishing, in other words,
(42:42):
marketing your book and gettingit out there, and the
conversation really was abouthow authors from marginalized
communities have a harder timewith that, and one of the things
that she said in a thread thatI thought was such great advice
for anybody.
She said when someone tells youthey've moved the needle I'm
(43:05):
paraphrasing here but whensomeone tells you they've moved
the needle, your questionshouldn't be how your question
should be do we have the sameneedle?
Interesting, and that is such avaluable thing in publishing
because I think you're gonnameet all kinds of people.
(43:25):
Like I was talking about goalsearlier, their goal might not be
the same as yours.
On to that for yourself andsaying what about this is going
to mean the most to me and whatabout what I'm doing is
(43:46):
important to me, is reallyimportant as you go through this
, because everybody's not goingto be hoping for the same thing
you're hoping for for themselves.
So you know, there's somepeople out there who they really
want to be at the top of thebestseller list, and that's
great.
I mean, that'd be fantastic,right?
Everybody would love that.
(44:08):
That was not my goal along, andso I feel like I've far
surpassed any goal that I hadfor myself and that feels really
good.
And it also feels like whateverhappens from here, moving
forward is okay, right?
Yeah, icing on the cake, it'sicing on the cake, or whatever.
(44:28):
So I feel like that.
Like I said, that's a lesson Ilearned way too late.
I learned that lesson too late,but it came actually at a
really good time for me.
Yeah, and so You're ready tohear it.
Yes, exactly, and when I wasalso ready to live by it.
Yeah Right, Because we're allimpressionable to some degree
(44:50):
and if we're talking to somebodyand they're saying, oh, you
know, you haven't made it unlessyou do X, Y, Z, it's natural
for us to be like you're right.
Oh yeah, I better do that.
Savannah (45:00):
Yeah, you know, but if your needle's different, I love
that too.
I think it's so important forso many things.
It could even be the method ofhow, like, if your book doesn't
line up with Save the Cat, butit lines up with Hero's Journey
or whatever right, it's likethey could apply to so many
different things and it willhelp us avoid shiny object
syndrome.
Kara (45:19):
Yeah, I think that's you know, there's so many books
published every day all the time, right, and the goal for me was
let's go find my readers.
And I'm still working on that,like I'm a lifelong thing.
(45:41):
I feel like, right, my book isa summer book, so I have till
the end of summer I find myreaders, I mean, and that you
know they might come back nextsummer.
Savannah (45:45):
Yeah, well, speaking of, you're working on book two,
so does it feel different thistime around?
Do you feel more confident inthings?
Talk about that.
Kara (45:53):
Yes, and I think that's big with your debut in
self-publishing is a lot tolearn.
Savannah (46:00):
There's a lot you don't know.
There is a lot If you think youknow it.
Things go wrong and you learnall kinds of lessons.
Kara (46:07):
Oh yeah, and the other thing is there's no one great
resource for how to do it, or atleast I didn't find it.
I found with each step I washaving to really pick and choose
, and there were a lot ofquestions I had that I could
never find the answers to.
Yeah, it's hard.
You know I'm sure there's aself-publishing book out there
(46:28):
that maybe would have answeredthem, but I don't know because
the stuff is changing constantly.
Right Is the other problem,like these platforms are
changing.
So, yes, I think it's nice tohave been through it and now I
know how it works.
And now I know how it works,and now I know what I would do.
Again, I mean one thing I thinkthat's another thing that's
(46:52):
important with self-publishingis or at least it was for my
book.
I worked as hard as I could tomake sure this book looked like
a traditionally published book.
Yeah, I think it does.
It does.
To make sure this book lookedlike a traditionally published
book.
Yeah, and I think it does.
It does, and I think that thathas helped me.
You know, like I think I neededall the yes, I had to pay
(47:14):
people to edit it and I had topay a cover designer.
I needed all of them.
There's no way I could havedone this myself.
People say writing is asolitary practice.
I would actually tweak that andsay drafting is a solitary
practice or can be.
Getting it to the finish lineis different.
You can draft the book byyourself Once you've drafted it.
(47:38):
I wouldn't recommend that, bythe way.
Yeah, but you can do that, butonce you've drafted it, you're
going to need other people'shelp from there on out.
Yeah, and yeah, I had a greatteam of people that helped me
edit it, make a cover, do myinterior, you know, those things
(47:58):
matter, I think.
Savannah (47:59):
And for listeners.
We will link to the ones shementioned in the show notes, but
we'll also link to where youcan get Another Summer by Kara,
so look for that.
Any final words ofencouragement for aspiring
romance writers, Kara.
Kara (48:12):
Well, I would say this for aspiring writers, anyways, for
all aspiring writers go do it,right.
If you're wondering if you cando this, find out, yeah.
And if you don't, you know, youmay find out that, like hey, I
don't actually enjoy this.
I'm like I've always wonderedif I could write a book and I
don't enjoy this.
But there you have your answeryeah.
(48:34):
And the second piece of adviceis read a lot on your genre.
And the third piece is keepgoing, keep going when it's when
it's hard, don't give up.
Savannah (48:43):
Yeah, and I will say, kara, you went through the highs
and lows you you've probablyhad, you know, at points, one of
the most traumatic experiencesI've ever seen a writer go
through.
So if you can do it, otherpeople can do it too, and that's
why I think your story is superinspiring and people are going
to love this great behind thescenes look you've given them
today.
So thank you very much.
And where can people find youon the internet?
Kara (49:05):
So I'm on mostly Instagram .
My website is caracantlycom andthere's a link on there for
various ways to order my book,because everybody has a favorite
way to get a book right, andhopefully this will answer this.
You know I have.
You can order signed copiesfrom me, or you can, you know,
(49:27):
go to any of the retailers, oryou can, you know, has the
information for you to order itfrom your local favorite indie
bookstore.
Savannah (49:36):
Love that, and you also will give people a sneak
peek of the first chapter ifthey sign up for your email list
, right, yes?
Kara (49:41):
If you sign up for my newsletter, you get a link to
read the first chapter.
Fabulous so the first chapterthat works?
Savannah (49:48):
Yeah, not the one that got the response at the
conference.
Yeah, although wouldn't that beso fun to see that someday like
in comparison.
But anyway, we will link to allof that in the show notes and
thank you again so much, kara,for coming, for coming on.
I think your story is so cooland I'm so glad that we are,
like now behind the publish dateand we can officially celebrate
(50:08):
everything.
Kara (50:09):
Yes, thank you, savannah.
It was fun to come on.
Savannah (50:13):
All right.
So that's it for this episodeof the Fiction Writing Made Easy
podcast.
Head over to savannahgilbocomforward slash podcast for the
complete show notes, includingthe resources I mentioned today,
as well as bonus materials tohelp you implement what you've
learned, and if you're ready toget more personalized guidance
for your specific writing stage,whether you're just starting
(50:33):
out, stuck somewhere in themiddle of a draft, drowning in
revisions, or getting ready topublish, take my free 30-second
quiz at savannahgilbocom forwardslash quiz.
You'll get a customized podcastplaylist that'll meet you right
where you're at and help youget to your next big milestone.
Last but not least, make sureto follow this podcast in your
podcast player of choice,because I'll be back next week
(50:54):
with another episode full ofactionable tips, tools and
strategies to help you become abetter writer.
Until then, happy writing.
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