#206. Student Spotlight: How Gina Elizabeth Went From Stuck to Publishing Two Books in Just One Year
August 12, 2025 • 32 mins
After years of getting stuck at chapter six, Gina Elizabeth finally discovered the missing piece that helped her finish writing not just one novel, but two books in a single year.
Today I'm chatting with Gina Elizabeth, indie fantasy romance author of the Bonded in Blood series (and Notes to Novel graduate!), about her transformation from someone who couldn't finish a book to a published author of multiple books.
In this episode, you'll hear us talk about things like:
- [04:00] Why she couldn't get past chapter 6 for two decades—and the surprising tool she didn't even know existed that changed everything
- [09:15] How learning to outline a novel actually freed Gina’s creativity instead of stifling it (plus why her outline felt "chaotic and crazy" but worked anyway)
- [10:50] What happened when I suggested Gina cut 20% of her draft (and how she turned those cut scenes into a prequel novella that readers love)
- [20:30] The "write forward" technique that helped Gina overcome writer's block and finish her first draft in 6-12 months
- [25:00] A behind-the-scenes look at Gina’s marketing plans, including what’s working so far and what she still plans to do before book 2’s release
If you're tired of abandoned manuscripts and ready to finally finish your novel, Gina's journey from 20 years of false starts to published author proves it's never too late to learn how. Press play to discover the exact strategies that helped her break through the chapter six curse for good.
🔗 Links mentioned in this episode:
- Hunted (Bonded By Blood) by Gina Elizabeth
- Hide: A Bonded In Blood Novella by Gina Elizabeth
- Gina Elizabeth on Instagram
- Gina Elizabeth’s Website
- Join the Notes to Novel waitlist
⭐ Follow & Review
If you loved this episode, please take a moment to follow the show and leave a review on Apple Podcasts! Your review will help other writers find this podcast and get the insights they need to finish their books. Thanks for tuning in to The Fiction Writing Made Easy Podcast! See you next week!
👉 Looking for a transcript? If you’re listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, scroll down below the episode player until you see the transcript.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My constant was always going back and editing,
and that was not working for me.
Like going back and editing acouple of chapters and then only
writing up to chapter six, likethat.
It just wasn't working.
So when I started leaving thosenotes and doing those magical
revisions or just saying likeadd in a fun scene here with
these people because I justcouldn't think of anything at
the time and just keep moving,it's great.
(00:20):
But as far as the creativeprocess of the first draft, I
find that so freeing to just beable to keep writing and just
keep moving forward and if Iwant to make a change I'll
pretend that I've made it andthen just keep going with the
story.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy
podcast.
My name is Savannah Gilbo andI'm here to help you write a
story that works.
I want to prove to you thatwriting a novel doesn't have to
be overwhelming, so each weekI'll bring you a brand new
episode with simple, actionableand step-by-step strategies that
you can implement in yourwriting right away.
So whether you're brand new towriting or more of a seasoned
(00:58):
author looking to improve yourcraft, this podcast is for you.
So pick up a pen and let's getstarted.
In today's episode, I'm sittingdown with one of my Notes to
Novel students who spent 20years yes, two full decades
trying to write the same story.
Her name is Gina Elizabeth, andshe would get to chapter four,
five or maybe six, and thenshe'd hit a wall.
(01:19):
She'd go back to the drawingboard, start over and repeat
this process over and over againand I know that will sound
uncomfortably familiar to someof you listeners.
But here's where it gets reallygood.
After discovering she'd beenmissing one crucial tool this
entire time, gina not onlyfinished her novel, but
published two books in a singleyear.
So today we're going to talkabout what changed for Gina from
(01:43):
the moment she realizedoutlining was actually an option
for someone who'd always beenmore of a pantser, to the day
she wrote 10,000 words in oneday because she had so much
momentum and literally could notstop writing.
If you've ever felt stuck in anendless loop of starting and
abandoning manuscripts, or ifyou're wondering whether you'll
ever actually finish that novelthat's been living in your head
(02:04):
for years, this conversation isabout to show you exactly what's
possible when you have theright tools and the right
framework.
But before we get into all thejuicy details, I want to read
you the back cover copy ofGina's novel Hunted, which is
the first book in her Bonded inBlood series.
(02:39):
Here's what it saysshapeshifters have long been
hunted by humans, facingimprisonment or death as
retribution for the actions ofthe first Soul Shifter.
For the past eight years, aslanand her shapeshifter brother
Liam have concealed theiridentities in the safety of
Frenhill's small town.
But when the king's oppressivereign sparks revolt, they must
(02:59):
call upon the Shifter resistancefor aid, igniting a conflict
that will change the face ofAlembria forever.
Amidst the turmoil, aslanreunites with a long-lost ally
and saves a mysterious Shifter,stirring up emotions she can't
seem to ignore.
As Aslan navigates betrayal anddesire, she must also confront
the shadows of her past and thelooming threat of the King's
(03:21):
forces.
With Alembria's fate hanging inthe balance, aslan must find
the courage to embrace her darkpowers and decide where her
loyalties lie before it's toolate.
Alright, so that is the backcover copy of Gina's novel
called Hunted.
We are also going to discussher prequel novella called Hide,
which I will link to in theshow notes.
(03:42):
Alright, so grab your favoritebeverage, settle in and let's
dive right into my conversationwith Gina Elizabeth.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
My name is Gina.
I am a new indie romanticistauthor.
I'm also a manager of a locallyused bookstore.
I'm a dog mom, a cat mom and amilitary spouse.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
So we're here today to kind of talk about two
different things.
One is your novella that cameout in 2024, and the other is
your novel that came out justearlier this year, in 2025.
So, first of all, hugecongratulations.
That's two books.
I know one's a novel, one's anovella, but two books in a year
, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Thank you so much.
Yeah, the novella really waswritten like very shortly after
the novel and kind of a spur ofthe moment.
Like you know what, I am goingto write this um cut scene from
the novel and I am going topublish it beforehand.
So I kind of actually had tolike push back the novel's
publication.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
But it was really good, which is so cool.
I want to talk about that later, but I actually want to start
us with the novel because, likeyou said, that came first right
and then you decided to jumpinto the novella.
So take me back to like thevery first nugget of the idea
that you had for your novel yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
So for the novel, I mean it's kind of a mixture, I
would say.
Like back when I was I don'tknow 12, 13, when I was a young
lass, I had an idea, I had thesecharacters in my mind and I
always knew that I wanted tobase my character Aslan off of.
I was inspired by TamoraPierce's Wild Magic and Dane.
(05:13):
In that book she can speak toanimals telepathically and I
always found that superinteresting because I love
animals, and so that is kind ofwhere it started.
So that is kind of where itstarted.
But then fast forward to reallyfully pursuing writing the
novel in, like I think it waslike 2021 or 2022.
But that was just like I neededit to be more adult.
(05:33):
I was not 13 anymore.
I wanted Aslan to be like inher younger 20s, but not
necessarily coming of age, andso that's kind of where I really
pursued the Notes to Novelcourse and tried to figure out
like, what is the story now inher 20s?
I've always struggled withtrying to write the story,
because I've attempted to writeit over and over and over again
(05:55):
and, yes, loosely she was basedoff of me in the beginning and
now, like, definitely I pulledfrom my own personal experiences
, but it was.
It was hard trying to figureout like, what does this story
look like now for her?
And also I'm in my 30s now, butI was writing her as a 20 year
old, so it's just a lot of a lotof trying to figure the story,
the character, the evolution ofit.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, and so what did that look like over the years,
when you would kind of start andstop?
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Was it always getting to the same sticking point or
was it like every draft had anew sticking point or what was
that like?
Yeah, so I basically wouldwrite like a handful of chapters
anywhere from like four to six,and really just not know where
to go after that and was kind ofpantsing my way through it and
I didn't know those terms at thetime like pantsing, plotter,
planter.
I identify as a planter.
Now I definitely like to plotand then, like I'm working on
book two currently.
(06:51):
I plotted it out and I am likevery much not sticking on track
to where I've been with myoutline and kind of just like I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
It's a crazy world in a writer's brain, yeah, that's
for sure, especially jugglingmore than one book to like spend
your writing series.
So I can imagine and I thinkthat's pretty typical too it's
like you start, you kind offizzle out because you're having
new ideas, you're trying tobalance old ideas and you're
trying to learn about how towrite a novel, all those things,
and like you have real life.
You know you have real life,you know you have a job, you
(07:31):
have fur kids, whether cats orcanines, and like a husband,
right, and you guys move a lot.
So it makes total sense.
I'm sure that felt a little bitfrustrating and you probably
had the self-doubt that we allhave of like, well, who am I to
think I can do this?
Does that kind of sum up youremotional state at that point?
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, you know, when the term imposter syndrome came
out, I was like, oh yeah, that'sme.
Because every time we'd stoparound you know chapter five or
six I'd be like, well, ok, Idon't know where to go after
this.
Or I would just see like somany different paths that the
characters could take and Ididn't know which one to choose.
And then I would try and takeone and I'd be like it's not
(08:04):
quite right and I'd have tostart over and over and over.
And yeah, it was just, it was alot.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, I think that's what a lot of non-writers don't
realize, Cause I'll hear peoplesay things like oh, how fun, you
can literally make up anything,and it's like in theory yeah,
but that's yeah, that's likereally hard to deal with
sometimes.
Okay, so then we met in 2022,when you signed up for Notes to
Novel, and I'm just curious youcan tell me anything.
You know that, gina.
Did you have any hesitations orworries or anything before you
(08:30):
signed up?
Speaker 1 (08:32):
No.
So I started listening to yourpodcast first and I recommended
it to so many people.
Like now that some writers arecoming to me as well and asking,
like how I got started, I'mlike, yeah, I would recommend
starting with the podcast.
It's free, and then, you know,take the course if you can
afford it.
But I was really excited for it.
Like I at that time I wasn'tworking, I lived in Korea and I
had a lot of time on my hands,and so I told myself, if I have
(08:55):
time, I'll pursue a writingcareer, and so that, like I just
jumped in and yeah, yeah,that's funny.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
So the stars aligned, you were like I'm doing it now,
and so that was in 2022.
And then, fast forward to 2025,your novel was published.
So what happened in those threeyears?
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Oh, so much so I it took me about.
I would say like, well, after Itook your notes, a novel course
.
It took me about four months tooutline which wild concept
plotting.
That was a bit groundbreakingfor me, that I could really kind
of explore all of my ideas, andthe first outline was just so
(09:37):
silly.
Like it was not good at all, soyeah.
Just stuff probably right, yeah,getting into that.
So it took me four months to dothe outline and then I started
writing and I was really like upand down with trying to figure
out like do I do, do I set aword count per day, or do I set
like a time limit?
And so that was kind of hard,trying to figure out what my
(10:00):
routine was going to be.
Yeah, it's fine now.
It's just I just like to writeevery day and if it's a
paragraph, it's a paragraph.
If it's today, it was likealmost 4000 words, like that's.
You know for everyone.
At this point that I talked to,it's kind of like just do what
works for you.
If it's sprints, do sprints.
If it's just writing, then justwrite.
(10:21):
You don't have to have like anumber goal for yourself.
So then I think it took me, ohman, six months to a year to
like write the first draft.
I really don't remember becausethere's been so many drafts
since then, plus an overseasmove and not only moving to
(10:42):
Germany, then moving to a newhouse after you're like in a
temporary area for a while.
So, yeah, yeah, and then prettymuch as I was getting through
the editing process of Huntedand I think I was about to send
it to my line and copy editor, Ikept thinking about this
backstory that I had initiallywanted to write and include in
the novel that you had gentlybut firmly recommend I not put
(11:07):
in like an eight-year time jumpin my novel, and I just couldn't
stop thinking about it.
I really wanted readers toexperience that.
So while I was sending huntedto my line and copy editor, it
didn't take me that long becauseI already knew the story.
I out the novella, I think in aweek, and then I wrote it
within two weeks.
So it was awesome and then sentthat off to my developmental
(11:28):
editor.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
So that's awesome, and so I want to highlight that
for listeners, because sometimespeople are like, oh, if I edit
something, it's dead, and it'slike no, it does not have to be
dead.
There are so many things youcan do with it, whether it's a
freebie for your email list orturning it into a novella, like
Gina did.
That's such a cool idea.
And now, in hindsight, how doyou feel about taking that out
of the novel?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Oh yeah, I mean, when you recommended it I was like,
oh my God, I really don't wantthat.
I really want readers toexperience this.
But it hunted reads so muchbetter without that eight year
time jack.
Because it was really like aweird percentage of my book was
back when they were 13.
And then it just randomlyjumped and you're already like
(12:10):
20 percent through the book andit was just yeah, it was really
weird.
So I do lead by having it asits own separate entity now, and
initially I had planned it tojust be a lead magnet, but when
I wrote it I was like this isway longer for a lead magnet.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I think this is and you loved it so much too.
So it's like you know might aswell put it out there, but I
think that's awesome.
So I'm glad you were able torepurpose that and I remember
that conversation and I rememberyour face being like maybe,
maybe I'll do that.
I don't know, it's just sofunny.
Okay, so let's go back to like,because there's a few things
that you said that are reallyinteresting to me.
(12:44):
One of them was you kind ofembraced an outline, a version
of that for you.
So what if you can remember,like, what were you hesitant
about when it came to outlining?
Speaker 1 (12:53):
I don't know if I was hesitant as so much that I like
I just didn't even know thatwas an option.
I didn't do any research, Ididn't really study writing.
I think I took like onecreative writing course in
college and yeah, it was alwaysjust kind of like a passion,
(13:13):
hobby on the side, um.
But when I did start outlining,I think also it was just it's a
lot of work, right, like yeah,we do have to deep dive, and it
wasn't just like oh, I'm playingwith my little Barbie dolls on
my paper for making them dowhatever kissy noises like.
It was really deep diving intothe characters, their backstory,
the plot, and I was justreading a book the other day
that like there are twodifferent types of writers.
(13:35):
There are ones who really writeplot based books and then ones
who really write character basedbooks, and I'm definitely a
character based one and I thinkthe outlining process was like
it's harder for me because Idon't really think about the
plot.
I let the characters drive thestory.
But it was so beneficial toreally deep dive into what does
the plot look like and how arethe characters driving it, so
(13:56):
that I could just make thiswell-rounded, hopefully, book.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, and I think ideally they both work together.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
So I think it's like you said no-transcript because
(14:26):
I'd been thinking about them forso long.
But yeah, with some of my othercharacters I think it was just
trying to figure out, like, whowas going to be in my story.
It wasn't necessarily buildingthe characters that I found
difficult, but like trying tobuild my cast and how they would
be different and how they wouldbe on page together.
That was something I struggledwith was like, if I have a huge
(14:46):
cast, how am I supposed to likehave them all together without
it feeling overwhelming, and howdo I tell everyone apart and
you know who needs to helpAshlyn get to the end of this?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
yeah, from like a character growth standpoint and
a plot standpoint.
So what was like?
It give us a highlight of likehow did you manage that large
cast?
What was one thing you did?
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I think I remember talking to you or maybe it was
one of the like Story Labmembers but I was just basically
asking questions of like okay,I have such a big cast, like how
do I orchestrate all of them?
And it was just simple.
It was just like, oh, theycould just say something here.
And it was just simple.
It was like, oh, they couldjust say something here.
One, one piece of dialoguethere.
It really doesn't have to betoo much, and it just gives you
like a snippet of theirpersonality, because in my brain
(15:32):
so many other things arehappening for them.
But yeah, we're going to makeit onto the page, and so that
was.
It's so simple, but it was justlike mind blowing for me and
because you have so much in yourhead, you're managing so much.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yes, it sounds like you were like trying to create,
or almost.
The fix for you was knowing howand when to spotlight those
characters versus I need to showeverything at all times?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's true, like in my
personal life, like I am justalways over explaining.
I've been told I'm an overcommunicator, and so I
definitely see that within mywork, too, of trying to figure
out.
Ok, I don't have to say everysingle thing, but I do need to
show in very unique ways, likeshowcasing these people and
spotlighting them and theirpersonalities, to really have
(16:19):
the reader see how differentthey are from each other.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, which I think is actually a great skill,
because it's like you still wereable to explain and get that
information across, but you hadto learn how to do it in a
really creative, like conciseway.
So I think that's a great skillto have going forward.
But OK, so then let's.
You did like you know.
I know the character work andthe outlining work was kind of
like we finally got us over thehill and now we're just writing.
(16:42):
And you said that when youshowed up to your desk, I heard
you say something magical, whichwas that it wasn't really about
like what to write every day.
It was more how, what does myprocess look like?
How am I going to show up anddo stuff?
What was that like?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Trying to figure out my process and my routine was
difficult at first.
I definitely in Korea, I didn'thave, I had like a couch and I
mean we have a very smalldepartment, so I had a couch in
my laptop.
I would sometimes go to thecafe and I created this routine
of like, okay, cafe culture inKorea is so cute, so I would go
to a cafe and I'd get a cafe.
(17:17):
Yeah, I've been to like the zoocafes as well.
They're so fun.
So, yeah, I would take my mystuff, I'd get my coffee and I
would sit in there and I'd writefor like at least an hour and
(17:38):
that was.
I love it.
I had already gotten to thepoint where I knew just writing,
just write every day, andthat'll be good for you.
And then then I got into theediting process and then the
routine changes.
So it's just trying to adaptand see what works for for you
and like I'm, you know, a newauthor.
So now I'm getting back into mywriting and I'm writing every
(18:00):
day right now and trying to seehow that looks, with like
marketing as well and jugglingeverything.
So we'll see what the routinelooks like now as a published
author while writing.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah, I think the key is what you said, though being
flexible and knowing that thingscan change, whether it's year
over year or editing to writingor whatever.
So I love that that's yourapproach, and the one thing that
I think listeners are reallygoing to pick up on is that you
still haven't said I didn't knowwhat to write.
Every time I sat down, you knewwhat you were going to do.
You just needed to find theprocess.
(18:34):
So I know before you weresaying like I'd get to chapter
four or five or six and then I'dkind of stall.
That's a big difference, right.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Right, right, right.
And even even now, like I thinkI mentioned earlier, I'm have
my outline for book two and I amkind of following it.
But I'm also letting mycharacters kind of drive certain
parts of the story and so it'sreally nice having an outline
because I can just referencethat and be like okay, I know
that these are some points Iwanted to hit, but it doesn't
look like this exact scene.
(19:01):
It looks like now because,based on what I wrote yesterday,
maybe things changed and I justlearned to adapt to wherever
they take me.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, I love that and I think for the you know
diehard pantsers or maybe eventhe plantsers, that kind of lean
more on the I don't want tooutline side, that is so key to
just remain flexible in allthings first of all.
But when it comes to youroutline, and are you keeping
keeping your outline updated asyou go, or are you just kind of
saying it's a roadmap and Ireference it as I go?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
I do a little bit of both.
So I like to add comments intomy outline and I did like move a
couple of scenes aroundrecently.
So I do definitely update myoutline as I'm writing.
I might not, as I get closer tothe end, just because I get
like a steamroll moment where Ijust I can't stop writing.
I think the last day that Iwrote the first draft of Hunted
(19:52):
I wrote like 10,000 words in oneday because it was the climax.
I was so excited and I'm alsowithin my draft adding notes I
think you call them magicalrevisions my draft adding notes.
I think you call them magicalrevisions.
And so I'll go back and I'll bethinking I already am not in
love with the beginning of thestory, but I'm just telling it
to myself and it's my first timewriting a second book in a
(20:14):
series.
So I'm trying to add in youknow, all of the reminders from
book one and I know there arethings I'm just not hitting in
this draft.
So I'm going back and I'madding comments like OK, I think
here you need to add X, y, z,so I do TK rules as well.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Love it.
So notes to future, gina, inyour outline and I know that you
said one of the other things innotes to novel was this or that
helped you was this idea ofwriting forward.
And I think, like probably somelisteners out there, their
minds are blown right nowhearing you say I just leave
myself notes and I keep goingand you're so relaxed about it.
Was it always that way or isthat like a kind of a new
(20:51):
behavior after you went throughbook one?
Tell me about that.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
You know, I actually adapted to it really easily
because my constant was alwaysgoing back and editing and that
was not working for me.
Like going back and editing acouple of chapters and then only
writing up to chapter six, likethat.
It just wasn't working.
So when I started leaving thosenotes and doing those magical
revisions or just saying likeadd, in a fun scene here with
(21:15):
these people because I justcouldn't think of anything at
the time and just keep moving,it's great.
But it's kind of like, um, thenwhen you get done and you're
going to edit, you didn't helpyourself out a lot, but you
helped yourself out a little.
But as far as the creativeprocess of the first draft, I
find that so free to just beable to keep writing and just
(21:36):
keep moving forward.
And if I want to make a changeI'll pretend, like you said,
I'll pretend that I've made itand then just keep going with
the story.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, and it's not the end of the world.
I know a lot of people thinklike if I don't have it all
figured out, it's going to bethe end of the world, my story
is going to fall apart, and it'slike, no, usually that doesn't
happen.
I mean, in rare cases, sure, itcould happen, but it usually
doesn't happen.
The further you go, usually youfind out more and more and more
, and so then you're able toanswer those questions and plant
the seeds and all those thingsin earlier scenes.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah, and I also think it's probably one of the
most efficient ways to write,and I really love efficiency, so
it works for me too.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, and so, speaking of that, you said your
outline took four weeks and thenyour draft took about six
months to a year, right, theoutline took about four months,
at least the first month.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Ok, this for book two .
It only took a month.
But I also now am coming intothis thinking like, ok, I know
what's going to change.
My very first kind was almost azero draft, like I was
basically writing skeletons ofscenes and this was like I think
you know these people are goingto be here and you need to at
least hit this like emotionalpoint and that's what we need to
(22:47):
hit here.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, I love that.
So it's kind of like, as youpick up the tools and use them,
you find different ways to usethem, but similar ways to use
them.
But it gets easier to use atool like an outline or whatever
it is.
So that's super exciting.
So I like that.
A.
Your timeline in the beginningis pretty good and tight.
I super exciting, so I likethat.
A.
Your timeline in the beginningis pretty good and tight.
I mean, a lot of people wouldlove to outline in four months
(23:10):
and then write their book inanother six to 12 months.
I think that's awesome.
But now it's getting eventighter.
So almost a quarter of the timeyou spent outlining book one
was spent outlining book two,and we'll see what happens with
your draft of book two.
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
The only thing I haven't done and I think I
rushed that outline a little bitjust because I knew like camp
naNoWriMo was coming up and Iwanted to write for all of april
book two there's so many newcharacters, so I have spent some
days where I am literally justI'm building like a character
spreadsheet at this pointbecause there's too many to keep
track of and I can't remembereverybody's eye color at this
(23:43):
point and I've made I pull, youknow art from Pinterest.
So I have a visual at thispoint and I have, like built
these little family trees.
It's awesome.
I think I didn't do prior todrafting, but I'm kind of
creating these characters andcoming up with their names as
I'm drafting and I just take anhour or two to kind of set
(24:05):
myself up with what thosecharacters look like and then I
jump back into my draft.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yeah, and that's an investment in your series anyway
, because you're going to needto use it later, so I think
that's awesome, okay.
So one thing that people sayoften when they're writing book
two is that there's kind of likedifferent pressures, new
pressures with it, where, a Iwrote a book that some people
really like and now am I goingto live up to that?
Or, b I've kind of writtenmyself into this version of what
(24:32):
needs to happen in book two andnow I'm stressed out.
Are you feeling any of thoseworries going?
Speaker 1 (24:37):
into book two.
I think I'm definitely feelingboth.
You know, I have a decentfollowing of people who really
enjoyed book one and the prequelnovella, and so I'm really
blessed to have that.
But there are things that Iprobably should have done, like
actually plan the entire series.
I had a very loose idea of whateach book looked like, and so
(24:57):
now I kind of wish that maybe Ihad planned some of these other
characters out a little bit moreprior to really publishing the
first book.
But I'm also kind of like okay,this is the world and these are
the people and this is themagic system, so you can deal
with it what you will, but thoseare the rules that I've
outlined for myself.
So in that regard I'm kind oflike all right, well, that's
(25:20):
what it is and you deal with itand you figure it out, just like
your characters have to figureit out.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, and it's funny because I think, no matter what,
whenever we finish a book orpublish a book, we're always
going to be like, oh, there'ssomething I wish I could have
done better.
So in my mind I'm like, okay,that's always going to be there.
At least you wrote a great book, people are liking it, you're
happy with it, and so, you know,could be worse, right?
Yeah, exactly, I love that.
And so if we kind of pivot now,so both your novel and novella
(25:49):
are out in the world, we will,of course, put links to those in
the show notes.
Marketing or publishing wise,was there anything that stood
out to you that, like you didn'tknow before, that you want to
impart on listeners who might bedoing this for the first time?
Um, man?
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I don't know, because there's still things I was just
listening to your most recentstudent spotlight and learning
stuff myself about, like BookBub.
So, as far as marketing goes, Iprimarily am doing social media
, which is not my favorite.
But just where I live and thefact that I don't necessarily
(26:24):
like live in Germany or pay thetaxes it's all a military thing
it's just a little bit harderfor me to be able to like get
into a local bookstore or, youknow, go to events, because I'm
in Germany, like it costs a lotof money to try and go to, say,
even the UK, to be in some sortof event there and promote it in
that way.
So I am primarily relying onsocial media and I have taken a
(26:48):
couple of courses but really,with the algorithms changing all
the time, it's so difficult tokeep up with it and I think
really you and several otherauthors have really pushed like
email subscribers is the way togo and that's kind of what I did
with the novella.
As far as the arcs, I reallywanted to find my target
(27:10):
audience.
I didn't use things likeNetGalley just because I won and
technologically inept anddidn't understand it when I
looked into it.
And two, I just really wantedto focus on finding my target
audience and with the novella Ididn't have an application.
I just said if you subscribe tomy newsletter you'll get an arc
of this, because it was like160 pages.
(27:32):
It's not that much.
You know.
I knew I was making sales forthat and relatively unknown, but
what I was trying to do wasjust build my subscriber list.
So in that regard, maybe thatwould help people in the future.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
But as far as I think so yeah, yeah I mean I part
with social media.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I don't have a lot.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, and I mean that's.
I still think you're making agreat effort on there too.
So, for anyone listening whowants to see what Gina's done, I
think you have done a great joband I do think it's smart to
focus on your email list and, ofcourse, there are ways to get
creative about how to get yourbook out there, whether it's
BookBub or whatever you want todo.
But I think you've done a greatjob so far, Gina, Thank you.
And if you look at your novellareviews, like you have glowing
(28:11):
reviews on Amazon and I mean Ithink there's what just under
100 at this point.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, under 100 at this point, yeah, so on Amazon I
think I'm at like 40 reviewsfor the novella, but on
Goodreads I'm just over 100.
And I think that's happenedrecently.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
So that's really exciting that I had that.
That's so exciting and that'sall like a lot of.
It is probably from those ARCreaders that you found and you
know, I know that ARC readersare sometimes hit and miss,
where some of them will show upand read the book and do great
things for you and then othersgoes to you, I'm sure, right
yeah, but I had about like 400subscribers sign up when I did
that call for for the arc forhide, which was great, but, like
(28:50):
you can see, I've only got likea hundred uh or so other views,
and with hunted it wasdefinitely different.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Like I wanted to focus more on finding our
readers who are really going tolike, give me good feedback.
However, I had like 90 ourgreeters, which was way
different from Hyde, but I gotabout 50% of them to actually
review it.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
So, even though it's not a lot of reviews, the
percentage wise has been wisehas been that that's great, yeah
, and I think you know sometimeswe discount the amount of
things or reviews or whatever,but if you have 50 people in
your house, that's a lot ofpeople, right?
Exactly.
So there are also peoplelistening who are like gosh, I
would love to have 50 reviews onmy books.
I think that's amazing, gina,and it's not like your launch
(29:34):
week, was it?
You're going to keep promotingyour books and getting people
into your email list, so sky'sthe limit is what I like to say.
But OK, so let's pretend thatyou're kind of giving yourself
at the beginning of your writingjourney maybe not quite at like
12, 13, but let's say in like2022, when you really wanted to
take this seriously.
What would you tell yourselfnow, with all your hindsight?
Speaker 1 (29:56):
I'd probably just tell myself that it's okay not
to set such high goals foryourself.
At the very beginning, I feellike I was pushing myself really
, really hard and setting verytight deadlines for myself.
I have since learned to spreadthat out a little bit and give
myself some wiggle room.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Yeah, allow for life to happen, because life does
happen.
Yeah, how hard we plan, right.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
I will just want to let everyone know and remind
everyone that everyone writesdifferently and you shouldn't
eat someone's yum and just writehow you write.
You know, just enjoy theprocess, enjoy the experience.
You know everyone's differentand that's OK.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yeah, that's totally OK and totally celebrated.
So I think that is great advice.
And, gina, it has been so muchfun to have you on today and let
everyone know where we can findyou around the Internet, and we
will also include those linksin the show notes.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
So I am on Amazon.
My books are both on there andon Kindle Unlimited.
I am on Amazon, my books areboth on there and on Kindle
Unlimited.
And then I am on Instagram andTikTok and I have a Facebook
group and, of course, you shouldsubscribe to my newsletter Love
it.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Okay, we will paste all those links as well as where
you can find Gina's books, hernovel and novella.
And maybe, at the time thiscomes out, I don't know book two
we'll see, but thank you somuch, gina, for being here.
Any, I don't know, book two,we'll see, but thank you so much
, gina for being here.
Any last parting words?
No, I think that's it.
Thank you so much for having me.
All right, so that's it for thisepisode of the Fiction Writing
Made Easy podcast.
(31:27):
Head over to savannagilbocomforward slash podcast for the
complete show notes, includingthe resources I mentioned today,
as well as bonus materials tohelp you implement what you've
learned.
And if you're ready to get morepersonalized guidance for your
specific writing stage.
Whether you're just startingout, stuck somewhere in the
middle of a draft drowning inrevisions, or getting ready to
(31:47):
publish, take my free 30-secondquiz at savannahgilbocom forward
slash quiz.
You'll get a customized podcastplaylist that'll meet you right
where you're at and help youget to your next big milestone.
Last but not least, make sureto follow this podcast in your
podcast player of choice,because I'll be back next week
with another episode full ofactionable tips, tools and
strategies to help you become abetter writer.
(32:09):
Until then, happy writing.
My constant was always going back and editing,
and that was not working for me.
Like going back and editing acouple of chapters and then only
writing up to chapter six, likethat.
It just wasn't working.
So when I started leaving thosenotes and doing those magical
revisions or just saying likeadd in a fun scene here with
these people because I justcouldn't think of anything at
the time and just keep moving,it's great.
(00:20):
But as far as the creativeprocess of the first draft, I
find that so freeing to just beable to keep writing and just
keep moving forward and if Iwant to make a change I'll
pretend that I've made it andthen just keep going with the
story.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy
podcast.
My name is Savannah Gilbo andI'm here to help you write a
story that works.
I want to prove to you thatwriting a novel doesn't have to
be overwhelming, so each weekI'll bring you a brand new
episode with simple, actionableand step-by-step strategies that
you can implement in yourwriting right away.
So whether you're brand new towriting or more of a seasoned
(00:58):
author looking to improve yourcraft, this podcast is for you.
So pick up a pen and let's getstarted.
In today's episode, I'm sittingdown with one of my Notes to
Novel students who spent 20years yes, two full decades
trying to write the same story.
Her name is Gina Elizabeth, andshe would get to chapter four,
five or maybe six, and thenshe'd hit a wall.
(01:19):
She'd go back to the drawingboard, start over and repeat
this process over and over againand I know that will sound
uncomfortably familiar to someof you listeners.
But here's where it gets reallygood.
After discovering she'd beenmissing one crucial tool this
entire time, gina not onlyfinished her novel, but
published two books in a singleyear.
So today we're going to talkabout what changed for Gina from
(01:43):
the moment she realizedoutlining was actually an option
for someone who'd always beenmore of a pantser, to the day
she wrote 10,000 words in oneday because she had so much
momentum and literally could notstop writing.
If you've ever felt stuck in anendless loop of starting and
abandoning manuscripts, or ifyou're wondering whether you'll
ever actually finish that novelthat's been living in your head
(02:04):
for years, this conversation isabout to show you exactly what's
possible when you have theright tools and the right
framework.
But before we get into all thejuicy details, I want to read
you the back cover copy ofGina's novel Hunted, which is
the first book in her Bonded inBlood series.
(02:39):
Here's what it saysshapeshifters have long been
hunted by humans, facingimprisonment or death as
retribution for the actions ofthe first Soul Shifter.
For the past eight years, aslanand her shapeshifter brother
Liam have concealed theiridentities in the safety of
Frenhill's small town.
But when the king's oppressivereign sparks revolt, they must
(02:59):
call upon the Shifter resistancefor aid, igniting a conflict
that will change the face ofAlembria forever.
Amidst the turmoil, aslanreunites with a long-lost ally
and saves a mysterious Shifter,stirring up emotions she can't
seem to ignore.
As Aslan navigates betrayal anddesire, she must also confront
the shadows of her past and thelooming threat of the King's
(03:21):
forces.
With Alembria's fate hanging inthe balance, aslan must find
the courage to embrace her darkpowers and decide where her
loyalties lie before it's toolate.
Alright, so that is the backcover copy of Gina's novel
called Hunted.
We are also going to discussher prequel novella called Hide,
which I will link to in theshow notes.
(03:42):
Alright, so grab your favoritebeverage, settle in and let's
dive right into my conversationwith Gina Elizabeth.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
My name is Gina.
I am a new indie romanticistauthor.
I'm also a manager of a locallyused bookstore.
I'm a dog mom, a cat mom and amilitary spouse.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
So we're here today to kind of talk about two
different things.
One is your novella that cameout in 2024, and the other is
your novel that came out justearlier this year, in 2025.
So, first of all, hugecongratulations.
That's two books.
I know one's a novel, one's anovella, but two books in a year
, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Thank you so much.
Yeah, the novella really waswritten like very shortly after
the novel and kind of a spur ofthe moment.
Like you know what, I am goingto write this um cut scene from
the novel and I am going topublish it beforehand.
So I kind of actually had tolike push back the novel's
publication.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
But it was really good, which is so cool.
I want to talk about that later, but I actually want to start
us with the novel because, likeyou said, that came first right
and then you decided to jumpinto the novella.
So take me back to like thevery first nugget of the idea
that you had for your novel yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
So for the novel, I mean it's kind of a mixture, I
would say.
Like back when I was I don'tknow 12, 13, when I was a young
lass, I had an idea, I had thesecharacters in my mind and I
always knew that I wanted tobase my character Aslan off of.
I was inspired by TamoraPierce's Wild Magic and Dane.
(05:13):
In that book she can speak toanimals telepathically and I
always found that superinteresting because I love
animals, and so that is kind ofwhere it started.
So that is kind of where itstarted.
But then fast forward to reallyfully pursuing writing the
novel in, like I think it waslike 2021 or 2022.
But that was just like I neededit to be more adult.
(05:33):
I was not 13 anymore.
I wanted Aslan to be like inher younger 20s, but not
necessarily coming of age, andso that's kind of where I really
pursued the Notes to Novelcourse and tried to figure out
like, what is the story now inher 20s?
I've always struggled withtrying to write the story,
because I've attempted to writeit over and over and over again
(05:55):
and, yes, loosely she was basedoff of me in the beginning and
now, like, definitely I pulledfrom my own personal experiences
, but it was.
It was hard trying to figureout like, what does this story
look like now for her?
And also I'm in my 30s now, butI was writing her as a 20 year
old, so it's just a lot of a lotof trying to figure the story,
the character, the evolution ofit.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, and so what did that look like over the years,
when you would kind of start andstop?
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Was it always getting to the same sticking point or
was it like every draft had anew sticking point or what was
that like?
Yeah, so I basically wouldwrite like a handful of chapters
anywhere from like four to six,and really just not know where
to go after that and was kind ofpantsing my way through it and
I didn't know those terms at thetime like pantsing, plotter,
planter.
I identify as a planter.
Now I definitely like to plotand then, like I'm working on
book two currently.
(06:51):
I plotted it out and I am likevery much not sticking on track
to where I've been with myoutline and kind of just like I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
It's a crazy world in a writer's brain, yeah, that's
for sure, especially jugglingmore than one book to like spend
your writing series.
So I can imagine and I thinkthat's pretty typical too it's
like you start, you kind offizzle out because you're having
new ideas, you're trying tobalance old ideas and you're
trying to learn about how towrite a novel, all those things,
and like you have real life.
You know you have real life,you know you have a job, you
(07:31):
have fur kids, whether cats orcanines, and like a husband,
right, and you guys move a lot.
So it makes total sense.
I'm sure that felt a little bitfrustrating and you probably
had the self-doubt that we allhave of like, well, who am I to
think I can do this?
Does that kind of sum up youremotional state at that point?
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, you know, when the term imposter syndrome came
out, I was like, oh yeah, that'sme.
Because every time we'd stoparound you know chapter five or
six I'd be like, well, ok, Idon't know where to go after
this.
Or I would just see like somany different paths that the
characters could take and Ididn't know which one to choose.
And then I would try and takeone and I'd be like it's not
(08:04):
quite right and I'd have tostart over and over and over.
And yeah, it was just, it was alot.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, I think that's what a lot of non-writers don't
realize, Cause I'll hear peoplesay things like oh, how fun, you
can literally make up anything,and it's like in theory yeah,
but that's yeah, that's likereally hard to deal with
sometimes.
Okay, so then we met in 2022,when you signed up for Notes to
Novel, and I'm just curious youcan tell me anything.
You know that, gina.
Did you have any hesitations orworries or anything before you
(08:30):
signed up?
Speaker 1 (08:32):
No.
So I started listening to yourpodcast first and I recommended
it to so many people.
Like now that some writers arecoming to me as well and asking,
like how I got started, I'mlike, yeah, I would recommend
starting with the podcast.
It's free, and then, you know,take the course if you can
afford it.
But I was really excited for it.
Like I at that time I wasn'tworking, I lived in Korea and I
had a lot of time on my hands,and so I told myself, if I have
(08:55):
time, I'll pursue a writingcareer, and so that, like I just
jumped in and yeah, yeah,that's funny.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
So the stars aligned, you were like I'm doing it now,
and so that was in 2022.
And then, fast forward to 2025,your novel was published.
So what happened in those threeyears?
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Oh, so much so I it took me about.
I would say like, well, after Itook your notes, a novel course
.
It took me about four months tooutline which wild concept
plotting.
That was a bit groundbreakingfor me, that I could really kind
of explore all of my ideas, andthe first outline was just so
(09:37):
silly.
Like it was not good at all, soyeah.
Just stuff probably right, yeah,getting into that.
So it took me four months to dothe outline and then I started
writing and I was really like upand down with trying to figure
out like do I do, do I set aword count per day, or do I set
like a time limit?
And so that was kind of hard,trying to figure out what my
(10:00):
routine was going to be.
Yeah, it's fine now.
It's just I just like to writeevery day and if it's a
paragraph, it's a paragraph.
If it's today, it was likealmost 4000 words, like that's.
You know for everyone.
At this point that I talked to,it's kind of like just do what
works for you.
If it's sprints, do sprints.
If it's just writing, then justwrite.
(10:21):
You don't have to have like anumber goal for yourself.
So then I think it took me, ohman, six months to a year to
like write the first draft.
I really don't remember becausethere's been so many drafts
since then, plus an overseasmove and not only moving to
(10:42):
Germany, then moving to a newhouse after you're like in a
temporary area for a while.
So, yeah, yeah, and then prettymuch as I was getting through
the editing process of Huntedand I think I was about to send
it to my line and copy editor, Ikept thinking about this
backstory that I had initiallywanted to write and include in
the novel that you had gentlybut firmly recommend I not put
(11:07):
in like an eight-year time jumpin my novel, and I just couldn't
stop thinking about it.
I really wanted readers toexperience that.
So while I was sending huntedto my line and copy editor, it
didn't take me that long becauseI already knew the story.
I out the novella, I think in aweek, and then I wrote it
within two weeks.
So it was awesome and then sentthat off to my developmental
(11:28):
editor.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
So that's awesome, and so I want to highlight that
for listeners, because sometimespeople are like, oh, if I edit
something, it's dead, and it'slike no, it does not have to be
dead.
There are so many things youcan do with it, whether it's a
freebie for your email list orturning it into a novella, like
Gina did.
That's such a cool idea.
And now, in hindsight, how doyou feel about taking that out
of the novel?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Oh yeah, I mean, when you recommended it I was like,
oh my God, I really don't wantthat.
I really want readers toexperience this.
But it hunted reads so muchbetter without that eight year
time jack.
Because it was really like aweird percentage of my book was
back when they were 13.
And then it just randomlyjumped and you're already like
(12:10):
20 percent through the book andit was just yeah, it was really
weird.
So I do lead by having it asits own separate entity now, and
initially I had planned it tojust be a lead magnet, but when
I wrote it I was like this isway longer for a lead magnet.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I think this is and you loved it so much too.
So it's like you know might aswell put it out there, but I
think that's awesome.
So I'm glad you were able torepurpose that and I remember
that conversation and I rememberyour face being like maybe,
maybe I'll do that.
I don't know, it's just sofunny.
Okay, so let's go back to like,because there's a few things
that you said that are reallyinteresting to me.
(12:44):
One of them was you kind ofembraced an outline, a version
of that for you.
So what if you can remember,like, what were you hesitant
about when it came to outlining?
Speaker 1 (12:53):
I don't know if I was hesitant as so much that I like
I just didn't even know thatwas an option.
I didn't do any research, Ididn't really study writing.
I think I took like onecreative writing course in
college and yeah, it was alwaysjust kind of like a passion,
(13:13):
hobby on the side, um.
But when I did start outlining,I think also it was just it's a
lot of work, right, like yeah,we do have to deep dive, and it
wasn't just like oh, I'm playingwith my little Barbie dolls on
my paper for making them dowhatever kissy noises like.
It was really deep diving intothe characters, their backstory,
the plot, and I was justreading a book the other day
that like there are twodifferent types of writers.
(13:35):
There are ones who really writeplot based books and then ones
who really write character basedbooks, and I'm definitely a
character based one and I thinkthe outlining process was like
it's harder for me because Idon't really think about the
plot.
I let the characters drive thestory.
But it was so beneficial toreally deep dive into what does
the plot look like and how arethe characters driving it, so
(13:56):
that I could just make thiswell-rounded, hopefully, book.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, and I think ideally they both work together.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
So I think it's like you said no-transcript because
(14:26):
I'd been thinking about them forso long.
But yeah, with some of my othercharacters I think it was just
trying to figure out, like, whowas going to be in my story.
It wasn't necessarily buildingthe characters that I found
difficult, but like trying tobuild my cast and how they would
be different and how they wouldbe on page together.
That was something I struggledwith was like, if I have a huge
(14:46):
cast, how am I supposed to likehave them all together without
it feeling overwhelming, and howdo I tell everyone apart and
you know who needs to helpAshlyn get to the end of this?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
yeah, from like a character growth standpoint and
a plot standpoint.
So what was like?
It give us a highlight of likehow did you manage that large
cast?
What was one thing you did?
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I think I remember talking to you or maybe it was
one of the like Story Labmembers but I was just basically
asking questions of like okay,I have such a big cast, like how
do I orchestrate all of them?
And it was just simple.
It was just like, oh, theycould just say something here.
And it was just simple.
It was like, oh, they couldjust say something here.
One, one piece of dialoguethere.
It really doesn't have to betoo much, and it just gives you
like a snippet of theirpersonality, because in my brain
(15:32):
so many other things arehappening for them.
But yeah, we're going to makeit onto the page, and so that
was.
It's so simple, but it was justlike mind blowing for me and
because you have so much in yourhead, you're managing so much.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yes, it sounds like you were like trying to create,
or almost.
The fix for you was knowing howand when to spotlight those
characters versus I need to showeverything at all times?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's true, like in my
personal life, like I am justalways over explaining.
I've been told I'm an overcommunicator, and so I
definitely see that within mywork, too, of trying to figure
out.
Ok, I don't have to say everysingle thing, but I do need to
show in very unique ways, likeshowcasing these people and
spotlighting them and theirpersonalities, to really have
(16:19):
the reader see how differentthey are from each other.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, which I think is actually a great skill,
because it's like you still wereable to explain and get that
information across, but you hadto learn how to do it in a
really creative, like conciseway.
So I think that's a great skillto have going forward.
But OK, so then let's.
You did like you know.
I know the character work andthe outlining work was kind of
like we finally got us over thehill and now we're just writing.
(16:42):
And you said that when youshowed up to your desk, I heard
you say something magical, whichwas that it wasn't really about
like what to write every day.
It was more how, what does myprocess look like?
How am I going to show up anddo stuff?
What was that like?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Trying to figure out my process and my routine was
difficult at first.
I definitely in Korea, I didn'thave, I had like a couch and I
mean we have a very smalldepartment, so I had a couch in
my laptop.
I would sometimes go to thecafe and I created this routine
of like, okay, cafe culture inKorea is so cute, so I would go
to a cafe and I'd get a cafe.
(17:17):
Yeah, I've been to like the zoocafes as well.
They're so fun.
So, yeah, I would take my mystuff, I'd get my coffee and I
would sit in there and I'd writefor like at least an hour and
(17:38):
that was.
I love it.
I had already gotten to thepoint where I knew just writing,
just write every day, andthat'll be good for you.
And then then I got into theediting process and then the
routine changes.
So it's just trying to adaptand see what works for for you
and like I'm, you know, a newauthor.
So now I'm getting back into mywriting and I'm writing every
(18:00):
day right now and trying to seehow that looks, with like
marketing as well and jugglingeverything.
So we'll see what the routinelooks like now as a published
author while writing.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah, I think the key is what you said, though being
flexible and knowing that thingscan change, whether it's year
over year or editing to writingor whatever.
So I love that that's yourapproach, and the one thing that
I think listeners are reallygoing to pick up on is that you
still haven't said I didn't knowwhat to write.
Every time I sat down, you knewwhat you were going to do.
You just needed to find theprocess.
(18:34):
So I know before you weresaying like I'd get to chapter
four or five or six and then I'dkind of stall.
That's a big difference, right.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Right, right, right.
And even even now, like I thinkI mentioned earlier, I'm have
my outline for book two and I amkind of following it.
But I'm also letting mycharacters kind of drive certain
parts of the story and so it'sreally nice having an outline
because I can just referencethat and be like okay, I know
that these are some points Iwanted to hit, but it doesn't
look like this exact scene.
(19:01):
It looks like now because,based on what I wrote yesterday,
maybe things changed and I justlearned to adapt to wherever
they take me.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, I love that and I think for the you know
diehard pantsers or maybe eventhe plantsers, that kind of lean
more on the I don't want tooutline side, that is so key to
just remain flexible in allthings first of all.
But when it comes to youroutline, and are you keeping
keeping your outline updated asyou go, or are you just kind of
saying it's a roadmap and Ireference it as I go?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
I do a little bit of both.
So I like to add comments intomy outline and I did like move a
couple of scenes aroundrecently.
So I do definitely update myoutline as I'm writing.
I might not, as I get closer tothe end, just because I get
like a steamroll moment where Ijust I can't stop writing.
I think the last day that Iwrote the first draft of Hunted
(19:52):
I wrote like 10,000 words in oneday because it was the climax.
I was so excited and I'm alsowithin my draft adding notes I
think you call them magicalrevisions my draft adding notes.
I think you call them magicalrevisions.
And so I'll go back and I'll bethinking I already am not in
love with the beginning of thestory, but I'm just telling it
to myself and it's my first timewriting a second book in a
(20:14):
series.
So I'm trying to add in youknow, all of the reminders from
book one and I know there arethings I'm just not hitting in
this draft.
So I'm going back and I'madding comments like OK, I think
here you need to add X, y, z,so I do TK rules as well.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Love it.
So notes to future, gina, inyour outline and I know that you
said one of the other things innotes to novel was this or that
helped you was this idea ofwriting forward.
And I think, like probably somelisteners out there, their
minds are blown right nowhearing you say I just leave
myself notes and I keep goingand you're so relaxed about it.
Was it always that way or isthat like a kind of a new
(20:51):
behavior after you went throughbook one?
Tell me about that.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
You know, I actually adapted to it really easily
because my constant was alwaysgoing back and editing and that
was not working for me.
Like going back and editing acouple of chapters and then only
writing up to chapter six, likethat.
It just wasn't working.
So when I started leaving thosenotes and doing those magical
revisions or just saying likeadd, in a fun scene here with
(21:15):
these people because I justcouldn't think of anything at
the time and just keep moving,it's great.
But it's kind of like, um, thenwhen you get done and you're
going to edit, you didn't helpyourself out a lot, but you
helped yourself out a little.
But as far as the creativeprocess of the first draft, I
find that so free to just beable to keep writing and just
(21:36):
keep moving forward.
And if I want to make a changeI'll pretend, like you said,
I'll pretend that I've made itand then just keep going with
the story.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, and it's not the end of the world.
I know a lot of people thinklike if I don't have it all
figured out, it's going to bethe end of the world, my story
is going to fall apart, and it'slike, no, usually that doesn't
happen.
I mean, in rare cases, sure, itcould happen, but it usually
doesn't happen.
The further you go, usually youfind out more and more and more
, and so then you're able toanswer those questions and plant
the seeds and all those thingsin earlier scenes.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah, and I also think it's probably one of the
most efficient ways to write,and I really love efficiency, so
it works for me too.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, and so, speaking of that, you said your
outline took four weeks and thenyour draft took about six
months to a year, right, theoutline took about four months,
at least the first month.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Ok, this for book two .
It only took a month.
But I also now am coming intothis thinking like, ok, I know
what's going to change.
My very first kind was almost azero draft, like I was
basically writing skeletons ofscenes and this was like I think
you know these people are goingto be here and you need to at
least hit this like emotionalpoint and that's what we need to
(22:47):
hit here.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, I love that.
So it's kind of like, as youpick up the tools and use them,
you find different ways to usethem, but similar ways to use
them.
But it gets easier to use atool like an outline or whatever
it is.
So that's super exciting.
So I like that.
A.
Your timeline in the beginningis pretty good and tight.
I super exciting, so I likethat.
A.
Your timeline in the beginningis pretty good and tight.
I mean, a lot of people wouldlove to outline in four months
(23:10):
and then write their book inanother six to 12 months.
I think that's awesome.
But now it's getting eventighter.
So almost a quarter of the timeyou spent outlining book one
was spent outlining book two,and we'll see what happens with
your draft of book two.
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
The only thing I haven't done and I think I
rushed that outline a little bitjust because I knew like camp
naNoWriMo was coming up and Iwanted to write for all of april
book two there's so many newcharacters, so I have spent some
days where I am literally justI'm building like a character
spreadsheet at this pointbecause there's too many to keep
track of and I can't remembereverybody's eye color at this
(23:43):
point and I've made I pull, youknow art from Pinterest.
So I have a visual at thispoint and I have, like built
these little family trees.
It's awesome.
I think I didn't do prior todrafting, but I'm kind of
creating these characters andcoming up with their names as
I'm drafting and I just take anhour or two to kind of set
(24:05):
myself up with what thosecharacters look like and then I
jump back into my draft.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yeah, and that's an investment in your series anyway
, because you're going to needto use it later, so I think
that's awesome, okay.
So one thing that people sayoften when they're writing book
two is that there's kind of likedifferent pressures, new
pressures with it, where, a Iwrote a book that some people
really like and now am I goingto live up to that?
Or, b I've kind of writtenmyself into this version of what
(24:32):
needs to happen in book two andnow I'm stressed out.
Are you feeling any of thoseworries going?
Speaker 1 (24:37):
into book two.
I think I'm definitely feelingboth.
You know, I have a decentfollowing of people who really
enjoyed book one and the prequelnovella, and so I'm really
blessed to have that.
But there are things that Iprobably should have done, like
actually plan the entire series.
I had a very loose idea of whateach book looked like, and so
(24:57):
now I kind of wish that maybe Ihad planned some of these other
characters out a little bit moreprior to really publishing the
first book.
But I'm also kind of like okay,this is the world and these are
the people and this is themagic system, so you can deal
with it what you will, but thoseare the rules that I've
outlined for myself.
So in that regard I'm kind oflike all right, well, that's
(25:20):
what it is and you deal with itand you figure it out, just like
your characters have to figureit out.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, and it's funny because I think, no matter what,
whenever we finish a book orpublish a book, we're always
going to be like, oh, there'ssomething I wish I could have
done better.
So in my mind I'm like, okay,that's always going to be there.
At least you wrote a great book, people are liking it, you're
happy with it, and so, you know,could be worse, right?
Yeah, exactly, I love that.
And so if we kind of pivot now,so both your novel and novella
(25:49):
are out in the world, we will,of course, put links to those in
the show notes.
Marketing or publishing wise,was there anything that stood
out to you that, like you didn'tknow before, that you want to
impart on listeners who might bedoing this for the first time?
Um, man?
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I don't know, because there's still things I was just
listening to your most recentstudent spotlight and learning
stuff myself about, like BookBub.
So, as far as marketing goes, Iprimarily am doing social media
, which is not my favorite.
But just where I live and thefact that I don't necessarily
(26:24):
like live in Germany or pay thetaxes it's all a military thing
it's just a little bit harderfor me to be able to like get
into a local bookstore or, youknow, go to events, because I'm
in Germany, like it costs a lotof money to try and go to, say,
even the UK, to be in some sortof event there and promote it in
that way.
So I am primarily relying onsocial media and I have taken a
(26:48):
couple of courses but really,with the algorithms changing all
the time, it's so difficult tokeep up with it and I think
really you and several otherauthors have really pushed like
email subscribers is the way togo and that's kind of what I did
with the novella.
As far as the arcs, I reallywanted to find my target
(27:10):
audience.
I didn't use things likeNetGalley just because I won and
technologically inept anddidn't understand it when I
looked into it.
And two, I just really wantedto focus on finding my target
audience and with the novella Ididn't have an application.
I just said if you subscribe tomy newsletter you'll get an arc
of this, because it was like160 pages.
(27:32):
It's not that much.
You know.
I knew I was making sales forthat and relatively unknown, but
what I was trying to do wasjust build my subscriber list.
So in that regard, maybe thatwould help people in the future.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
But as far as I think so yeah, yeah I mean I part
with social media.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I don't have a lot.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, and I mean that's.
I still think you're making agreat effort on there too.
So, for anyone listening whowants to see what Gina's done, I
think you have done a great joband I do think it's smart to
focus on your email list and, ofcourse, there are ways to get
creative about how to get yourbook out there, whether it's
BookBub or whatever you want todo.
But I think you've done a greatjob so far, Gina, Thank you.
And if you look at your novellareviews, like you have glowing
(28:11):
reviews on Amazon and I mean Ithink there's what just under
100 at this point.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, under 100 at this point, yeah, so on Amazon I
think I'm at like 40 reviewsfor the novella, but on
Goodreads I'm just over 100.
And I think that's happenedrecently.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
So that's really exciting that I had that.
That's so exciting and that'sall like a lot of.
It is probably from those ARCreaders that you found and you
know, I know that ARC readersare sometimes hit and miss,
where some of them will show upand read the book and do great
things for you and then othersgoes to you, I'm sure, right
yeah, but I had about like 400subscribers sign up when I did
that call for for the arc forhide, which was great, but, like
(28:50):
you can see, I've only got likea hundred uh or so other views,
and with hunted it wasdefinitely different.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Like I wanted to focus more on finding our
readers who are really going tolike, give me good feedback.
However, I had like 90 ourgreeters, which was way
different from Hyde, but I gotabout 50% of them to actually
review it.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
So, even though it's not a lot of reviews, the
percentage wise has been wisehas been that that's great, yeah
, and I think you know sometimeswe discount the amount of
things or reviews or whatever,but if you have 50 people in
your house, that's a lot ofpeople, right?
Exactly.
So there are also peoplelistening who are like gosh, I
would love to have 50 reviews onmy books.
I think that's amazing, gina,and it's not like your launch
(29:34):
week, was it?
You're going to keep promotingyour books and getting people
into your email list, so sky'sthe limit is what I like to say.
But OK, so let's pretend thatyou're kind of giving yourself
at the beginning of your writingjourney maybe not quite at like
12, 13, but let's say in like2022, when you really wanted to
take this seriously.
What would you tell yourselfnow, with all your hindsight?
Speaker 1 (29:56):
I'd probably just tell myself that it's okay not
to set such high goals foryourself.
At the very beginning, I feellike I was pushing myself really
, really hard and setting verytight deadlines for myself.
I have since learned to spreadthat out a little bit and give
myself some wiggle room.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Yeah, allow for life to happen, because life does
happen.
Yeah, how hard we plan, right.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
I will just want to let everyone know and remind
everyone that everyone writesdifferently and you shouldn't
eat someone's yum and just writehow you write.
You know, just enjoy theprocess, enjoy the experience.
You know everyone's differentand that's OK.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yeah, that's totally OK and totally celebrated.
So I think that is great advice.
And, gina, it has been so muchfun to have you on today and let
everyone know where we can findyou around the Internet, and we
will also include those linksin the show notes.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
So I am on Amazon.
My books are both on there andon Kindle Unlimited.
I am on Amazon, my books areboth on there and on Kindle
Unlimited.
And then I am on Instagram andTikTok and I have a Facebook
group and, of course, you shouldsubscribe to my newsletter Love
it.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Okay, we will paste all those links as well as where
you can find Gina's books, hernovel and novella.
And maybe, at the time thiscomes out, I don't know book two
we'll see, but thank you somuch, gina, for being here.
Any, I don't know, book two,we'll see, but thank you so much
, gina for being here.
Any last parting words?
No, I think that's it.
Thank you so much for having me.
All right, so that's it for thisepisode of the Fiction Writing
Made Easy podcast.
(31:27):
Head over to savannagilbocomforward slash podcast for the
complete show notes, includingthe resources I mentioned today,
as well as bonus materials tohelp you implement what you've
learned.
And if you're ready to get morepersonalized guidance for your
specific writing stage.
Whether you're just startingout, stuck somewhere in the
middle of a draft drowning inrevisions, or getting ready to
(31:47):
publish, take my free 30-secondquiz at savannahgilbocom forward
slash quiz.
You'll get a customized podcastplaylist that'll meet you right
where you're at and help youget to your next big milestone.
Last but not least, make sureto follow this podcast in your
podcast player of choice,because I'll be back next week
with another episode full ofactionable tips, tools and
strategies to help you become abetter writer.
(32:09):
Until then, happy writing.
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